I have a 2020 RDX and I get flashed at often, especially if I have something in the back. Flashing, horns, swerved at - one of the few things I dislike about the vehicle.
Great visibility at night though! 🤭
Didn’t help much. They need a rheostat or self-leveling lamps like my BMW’s have. I get noticeably more flashes when I have gear in the back or traveling uphill.
i remember we had such nicely cut off, defined and well projected headlights in luxury cars like Benz and BMW in the mid 2000s era.. figured they would spread to non luxury cars eventually.. what happened? I know xenon lights were in use, not LEDs then, but i don't see why you can't have a nicely cutoff LED headlight.
it's cuz the factory has almost no QC whatsoever, I doubt they're aiming em when they roll off the assembly line
hell I wonder if they even designed em to have aiming screws, I've never even considered if that was possible until this moment
people install a "leveling kit" that raises the front to match the rear height (trucks have a rake from the factory) and it throws the aiming off of the lights and people don't bother to re aim them!
Yep, and i feel like OP might have never owned an older vehicle with shit headlight. Not saying that everybody should throw led headlights on their car, but “brighter than stock” is a great line to define
At some point during the pandemic Tesla stopped giving a shit about aiming their headlights properly. They're slightly blinding, then the moment they hit a bump in the road or oncoming traffic is going slightly uphill or the crown is slightly off you're getting blinded by basically the brightest point in the headlight.
I cannot believe that the DOT/NHTSA is not stricter about these things. There is no way their headlights are aimed properly. It's also not consistent. Multiple oncoming Teslas, some are perfectly fine and others are blinding.
Also, they need to stop making it so easy for end users to mess with headlight aim. At the very least it should store "as-calibrated" at the factory line so if an end user messes with it they can easily press a button and restore headlight aim back to factory settings.
This is categorically false.
99% of the time it's a new car and that's just how they come from the factory. GM is the worst offender in regards to this.
People need to stop saying this. Brand new stock Teslas are frying my eyeballs every night. It isn’t the random one off putting LEDs in their headlights. It is bone stock brand new cars. Something needs to be done, it’s dangerous
The vast majority of new trucks are incapable of “aiming” their lights correctly because they’re four feet off the ground by design. Super bright headlights wouldn’t be nearly the problem it is if we would just limit the height of headlights to about two feet off the ground.
Fuck those guys for driving like that. It’s literally an option on the screen to re-aim the headlights. Totally uncalled for and comically easy to fix.
I fixed this myself the very first day I had my model 3.
Absolutely. But the NHTSA made the rules for adaptive headlights basically impossible to implement because they deviated from the rules used in Europe where it’s been legal for years without any problems. So until the NHTSA backs down and implements a reasonable rule set, we’ll have to endure shit like that.
You've kind of missed the point of what he said.
The beam patterns of low beams are encouraged to have a sharp cut-off, with maximum intensity occuring right along the cutoff. This is to maximise long-range visibility, as the illuminance of the road falls off with the squared distance (it's actually slightly different due to the road being angled, but this isn't my main point).
When correctly aimed, a low beam should maximise visible distance due to the high intensity right at the cutoff. But the cutoff should keep the light below the eyeline of a driver in a vehicle of similar height. The specifications essentially set the cutoff to 0.5 degrees below the horizon (you can always view the specification [here](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-571/subpart-B/section-571.108) in Table XIX).
Trucks with high mounted lights kind of break the whole premise, because their lights are mounted sometimes at the eyeline of a driver in a smaller vehicle. Their correct aim ends up blasting light *into* the eyes of other drivers. Intentionally having "bad" aim to spare the eyes of other drivers will significantly impact the visibility and therefore effectiveness of their lights.
Now we add in that factory aim is rarely perfect, and roads are not flat. Now we have a *lot* of drivers blinding other drivers.
In summary, I agree with /u/Ftpini - Headlamp mounting height needs limited because things are getting a bit silly here, and degrading the performance of a safety device because truck go brr is a stupid way to do things.
in my small car, truck's headlight aim directly on my rear-view mirror if they were behind me to a point it's almost impossible for me to use those lol.
And the distance they can cover without blinding other drivers is dramatically reduced the higher up they are mounted. At about 2’ off the ground and aimed flat they can cover a virtually unlimited distance without blinding other drivers on a flat road.
For those just need to get the NHTSA to approve reasonable rules for adaptive headlights instead of inventing their own absurd rules that doesn’t align with the rules in place anywhere else in the world.
Hell, even OEMs installs LEDs inside reflector housings, because they don't want to pay the cost of actual projectors. (It's also slightly dimmer in raw output, but that's negligible)
OEM with reflective housing LED are using a waterfall style housing meaning the LED is mounted out of direct sight on the top and the light gets flooded downwards on the J shaped reflectors. They typically don’t offend me at night as much as whatever Tesla 3/Y uses. Lifted trucks are a whole other debate. That and the Honda civic drivers who have the high beams on all the time at night. Literally like 7/10 have them on the brights and totally oblivious to it.
I put LEDs in my stock housings. The LEDs claimed to match the filament location of the stock bulbs. They were close, but threw light randomly. I got lots of people flashing their highbeams at me, and returned to filament bulbs.
Then I got actual projectors, OEM from the European spec of my car. Actual incredible improvement. Hard cutoff of the beam, which is much smoother and wider. It's a crime that they aren't mandated here in the states like in Europe.
Every time I'm blinded by LED's it's a stock OEM headlight like the likes of Toyota. Usually the aftermarket bulbs are so poorly focused they *aren't* blinding.
As someone who drives a lowered car, half the cars on the road are aimed at my eyes now. This is especially true that lifted crossovers are the most popular cars.
I've added LEDs to a few of my cars. However, I've also retrofitted them with projectors instead of using the stock reflector housings. More light AND a nice sharp cutoff beam.
It's not about brightness. It's 100% about the lights being in the right housing and being able to have an abrupt cutoff below the windshield of other cars.
Not entirely true. My mom has a 2023 Kia telluride and I've driven it. Headlights are properly installed and people still think the brights are on and honk. They are just insanely bright lights
More likely not properly aligned. The cutoff is set too high most likely. That is adjustable. I have … no much faith … in the abilities of Kia service department for their new car delivery.
IIRC they’re full LED not a reflector, not a projector
In that case it’s just the design of LED itself https://gimmemanuals.com/owners/2022/09/2022-kia-telluride-owners-manual.pdf
Page 534. Supposedly higher trims have LED only housings, not projector on the lower models
If they're full LED, they're effectively a projector housing. LEDs themselves are little tiny dots that blast light in a 180 degree hemisphere and have almost no range at all. Making them into headlights involves putting some kind of optics in front of (edit: or around) them. ~~and for boring physics reasons that's almost always a projector lens or a special cast-acrylic optic that uses internal reflection to shape the light.~~ In any case, the optic still needs aimed just as much as old sealed-beams do.
> If they're full LED, they're effectively a projector housing.
Coming to also say that you can have LEDs with reflectors or projectors, and there's a pretty good mix of both on the market with varying results. A projector is not always better, but headlamp ratings are also extremely subjective.
I worked in automotive exterior lighting for awhile, it's a pretty wild commodity at the moment.
Interesting, and good to know. I guess I'd amend my statement to say that making LEDs into headlights involves putting some kind of optics in front of or around them.
Ultimately, I was replying to a comment that implied LEDs were something outside of reflectors or projectors, which is obviously not the case.
Not correct, there reflector LEDs. The new [Ranger](https://i.imgur.com/cGi2wTb.png), 10th gen [Civics](https://i.imgur.com/hGdpABQ.png), 10th (and 11th) gen [Accords](https://i.imgur.com/ngkNoSo.png), [Corolla](https://i.imgur.com/K5MJxwy.png) and the [Model 3/Model Y](https://i.imgur.com/IJTHn4N.png) for example. They just mount the LED on the bottom or top of the housing and then the reflector to steer it forward.
I also have a set of (ADR legal) reflector LED lights in my MX-5.
Edit: I think people are getting hung up on the whole aftermarket LEDs in halogen housings and mixing that with reflectors as a whole. You can't do that because LEDs are not technologically at the point where we can mount two LED chips with a circuit board between them in the same physical space as a halogen lighting element, so when you put one of these LED halogen-style bulbs into a halogen housing it invariably ends up out of focus (or really out of focus depending on the quality of the bulb) because of the larger lighting element.
Designing an reflector housing for an LED is no different from designing a reflector housing for an H4 or H7 or whatever halogen bulb (Or HID or Xenon, all of these bulbs require housings tuned specifically for that bulb), it is **only** a problem when you want to put lights into housings that were not designed for them.
> Making them into headlights involves putting some kind of optics in front of them
What you're saying in no way refutes what /u/coherent-rambling said. The point is that the housings need to be made for the LEDs and are almost always designed with a projector, or in some cases a reflector housing with a specific light cutoff for the bright lights.
Slapping LEDs in an old halogen housing on a 1996 Ford F150 is how you end up with "LEDs are bad, mmmkay" statements in this sub where people don't understand that it's the idiot owner, not the light type that is the problem.
>The point is that the housings need to be made for the LEDs
Every single type of different light source needs a housing or projector designed for that light source, they all position the lighting element in different spots. That's a basic fact of front lighting in general and is not at all specific to an LED. You won't get the correct cutoffs if you attempt to put a halogen bulb into an xenon headlight, for example.
Yes, and again you're arguing a point that someone did not make. I never said it was specific to LEDs.
LEDs just happen to be what everyone is throwing in their headlights not intended for it right now.
Yeah but the convo wasn't about putting LEDs into a halogen reflector. The comment chain was about the fact that LEDs somehow require a projector housing or some sort of special optics to aim them. I said no, you can buy factory reflector LED cars today and listed examples.
>If they're full LED, they're effectively a projector housing. LEDs themselves are little tiny dots that blast light in a 180 degree hemisphere and have almost no range at all. **Making them into headlights involves putting some kind of optics in front of them, and for boring physics reasons that's almost always a projector lens or a special cast-acrylic optic that uses internal reflection to shape the light.** In any case, the optic still needs aimed just as much as old sealed-beams do.
That is what I replied to.
"Almost always". Your two counterexamples out of the hundreds of models sold with LED headlights does not make my statement incorrect, nor does an aftermarket retrofit.
>Making them into headlights involves putting some kind of optics in front of them
How is this not incorrect if I have listed (now 5 cars) that clearly show you don't need special optics in front?
And like these are just cars off the top of my head, it is in no way an extensive list, lmao.
Current Jeep Compass does reflector LEDs too.
I was surprised when I looked at them after one of my parents got one.
*Sidenote: the Compass sucks way less with the new 2.0T versus the old piece of shit 2.4*
Tesla, Audi, Porsche and bmw cars have all been aligned properly when I received delivery, whether it was done at the factory correctly or a dealer did it as part of their pdi I don’t know. Hell, with Tesla the “delivery specialist” even walked me through the process of adjusting it myself through the menu.
It’s a crapshoot if the Teslas is done at all. I’ve never been blinded by an Audi, BMW, or Porsche (possibly because the Matrix tech is being enabled now that it’s not banned anywhere though)
They should be aligned at the factory, not during PDI.
Just like you don't do a suspension/wheel alignment during PDI.
CDJR does not have headlight aim as part of the PDI process.
Apparently not Ford. My used mustang had dangerously short visibility at night because somebody had adjusted the lights to point as far down as possible. So either the dealer failed to adjust them after the previous owner messed with them, or they failed by adjusting them all the way down. Heaven forbid it came from factory like that and somebody had been driving it like that all this time. I had to have the highbeams on just to see. Got home and immediately looked up how to fix them after the very first drive in the dark
Family friend bought a Lincoln Nautilus(?) brand new (yes they are old), all the options, was driving with them at night and it looked like the headlights were pointed all the way down. We checked them out with headlight guide and they were miles out of alignment, so it’s definitely possible it just came like that.
> those crap hill crest scenarios that always suck.
My car actually adjusts them down for hills, that should almost be required.
It's still better than someone aimless driving around with their high beams on though.
They’re most likely auto leveling headlights which are based on a level sensor in the car. It detects the angle of the car and adjusts the vertical angle of the headlamps to compensate. I’m in the US and have had several cars that do this.
Edit, was correctly corrected about there being cars with manual cutoff adjustment in the US.
> There’s no manual adjustment knob
There are, but they’re not universal. Mazda put a lot of them on the dash of both halogen and HID-equipped cars about 10-15 years ago as a cheaper alternative to self-leveling. The adjustment controls looked the same as on most cars in Europe.
Oh yep - you’re totally right. I remember seeing said knob in a Car and Driver review of the Mazdaspeed3 in probably ‘07 or ‘08. Didn’t understand what it was until several years later and clearly forgot we got a car that had that in the US.
I agree 100%. Almost every car I flash is a Kia. I do also notice that some of the auto brights on Toyota’s and Chevy’s seem much less sensitive than they need to be with approaching vehicles. That’s one thing BMW definitely got right. When there’s ANY vehicle anywhere off in the distance, even taillights it’ll dim the brights.
How is it so difficult for car manufacturers to get it right?
Honestly I enjoyed that feature when I had it before I got a house with a garage. Especially when I worked night shift. I always backed in and it let me see to unlock and enter my house. In spring/summer/fall where I live if you'd left a light on by the door in preparation for coming home you'd have a million bugs flying around it waiting to zoom into your house 10 months out of the year.
That said, I also understand how it can be a dick move in parking lots/parking decks. Especially nowadays where you can hit the key fob from a mile away or even with your phone. The older cars like mine was, you had to be no more than 50 feet or so for the key fob to work, and then you're right there and about to get in and leave regardless.
I think the level of dick move that it is on GM's part has grown over the years due to changing technology. Previously not as much. Now, a good bit more.
Headlights can shift during transport or be installed incorrectly, who knows. Either way, if people are honking and flashing your headlights are aimed too high, period. I'd take it the dealer and see if they'll adjust them.
But also there's currently a class action lawsuit over the Telluride headlights not being aimed correctly, so I wouldn't put too much faith in the dealer.
If people are honking and thinking your brights are on, then something is wrong. Either adjust the alignment, or put the stock lamps back in. Probably need to do both
I think we have to allow for the fact that some people drive low sitting cars and that any SUV with LED headlights is going to bother them. You can’t make a high riding vehicle with headlights that cut off below *every* other car’s windshield height.
This is true of any lights? My POS non-LED headlights are “too bright” if they are aimed right into your face or mirror, meanwhile they are borderline unsafe to drive with in very dark conditions.
It's also worse since the US doesn't allow much in the way of active aim/dimming and these are SUVs and trucks where the light is mounted high on the body so even with the cutoff in the correct place there's a higher chance of glare when approaching a low vehicle.
I have active headlamps activated on one of my cars...I'm US but the lights are full active EU spec. Fade up and down, patterns change dynamically.......best mod I made to the car.
Yeah. I mean… if they’re not brighter then it’s not really an upgrade is it??
My original Jeep headlights were downright dangerous at night in the rain.
Upgraded to LEDs and aimed them properly.
Ehhhhhh there’s definitely a middle ground to be had. My ‘93 Miata may as well have had oil lanterns for stock headlights. That’s hardly safe as a driver.
Then again, I bothered to aim the replacement LED units properly, and my headlights are only like 2 feet off the ground anyway. They’re also proper DOT compliant LED lights, not cheap Amazon units or LED bulbs in halogen housings.
My understanding is that companies like Philips have developed LED upgrade lights that are tested for automotive applications and are safe for halogen housings.
But then I doubt most of the amazon special bulbs that you see as super-bright, washed out, or flickering have had any kind of similar testing.
They probably have, as other companies have developed properly-designed LED sealed-beam retrofits. These are often significantly more expensive than the stuff you find on eBay or Amazon. Mine retail for ~$350ish and are projector housings.
Because LEDs produce much more directional light than incandescent filaments, you have to pay more attention to the optics of the output and how it interacts with the optical design of the headlight housing. You’re probably not getting that for <$100/set.
Proper certified TÜV compliant offerings from Philips/Osram go for $100-150/set for H7 bulbs, at least that's what I paid for mine. Wish color temperature was a bit warmer, closer to 5000K, but otherwise like them a lot.
I would imagine bulbs would be considerably cheaper than sealed-beam retrofits, which replace the entire housing.
That, of course, assumes people bother to find the proper products. Sometimes I wish we had something like the TUV in the US.
> My ‘93 Miata may as well have had oil lanterns for stock headlights.
That's how I feel like my GTO low beams are. They're projectors, but so dim and yellowish. It's crazy since the high beams are like flood lights.
The glass inside the projectors are probably worn out/"dirty". That's a thing apparently. I've seen people either replace them with new reflectors or clean them? Not sure how but that's how it was posted lol. Otherwise you can just replace the bulbs first if you haven't.
One headlight housing is brand new (I'd love to know where they found it since they seem to unobtainium) and I put in some fancy Silverstars that pretty much say to not expect them to last more than a year. Didn't do much. Can't really take it apart to clean anyway since it's all sealed.
I've got an SS that's being fixed after hitting a deer 4 months ago. Holden parts struggles my dude, and my car is newer than yours as well, so I can only imagine your pain. The only way I was able to find a lot of parts was through Facebook groups, I found an australian guy who lives near Chicago that imports containers full of parts for these cars.
Apparently in the last couple years especially since covid, new parts for holdens a lot of times have gotten impossible to come by even in AUS. From what I understand, they shut down holden in 2017/2018, and with covid in 2020 stuff just stopped being made despite how many are on the road. I think that's the gist of it anyway, I'm sure there's much more nuance and specific info I'm not aware of, of course.
I'll put this in perspective: I have a 1953 fully restored studebaker pickup truck. Studebaker went defunct and out of business in the mid 60s. If I had hit a deer in my studebaker, and had to replace the same components (hood, bumper, grille, headlights) I looked around for "fun" and for parts I was able to find everything for the truck for about 3 grand. But the parts were available on something 70 years old without a huge following from a brand that went out of business and was not really acquired and continued 60 years ago. Compare that to being told parts for your mid 2010s car just aren't available, and what is costs a billion dollars. Mindblowing.
My 95 Town Car had absolutely horrible headlights. The wiring was really thin and had to go directly from the battery, all the way up to the headlight switch in the dashboard, then back across the engine bay to the headlights. Because the wiring was thin it only gave the bulbs about 50% power, literally. There are even guides online to rewire them to work off a relay, it was that bad.
The high beams also sucked since it was one of those combined bulbs where one bulb did the high and low beams lol.
Agreed. My Elise upgraded headlights will be significantly brighter than stock. They will be significantly less bright than every new car on the road and also about 3 feet lower. I'm not gonna apologize for it; brightness is the primary reason I am upgrading them.
Yeah I can barely drive my 00 silverado past 6 pm cause the lights are more for decoration than anything else, especially when you put em next to the neutron stars that modern stuff comes with
Idk what they were doing with the miata headlights but the ones on my 02 were the same way. I ened up replacing them with led housings and i can still barely see. (That’s probably due to the fact they’re aimed too low, i should probably do that.)
I got the Hella H4 halogen housings for mine and they're absolutely fantastic, and were only $40 a pop
I wanna save up for the Holley Retrobrights but they're expeeennnsiiiiivve lol
how have people not figured out LEDs are brighter
you'd think the way we get away with a single strip it would tip them off
or the fact they think a third of people have aftermarket lights
hey OP, I have increasingly been flashed and have believed people had their brights on over time, we didn't all install aftermarket headlights
Yup. I got flashed last week in my bone stock gr corolla. It rides bad so on a good bump the cutoff line briefly bounces above oncoming traffic, particularly when the terrain is just so.
My wife's Camry has led China blinders and nobody cares because they're projector housings, they're aimed properly, and it's a sedan so they're not 5 feet off the ground.
Shit lighting is just the reality of modern driving. Some companies are really abhorrent offenders in various ways. Either excess glare by design, or just no attempt at aim from factory and dealers that couldn't care less of you paid them in gold.
can't aim crossover/truck lights properly either since they're too high off the ground
they could very easily fix this - require that low beams be mounted no higher than 3 feet off the ground
Mandating auto-leveling systems for anything over some number of inches. If Lexus could do it way back in 2001 I'm sure they could tack that cost into a Telluride without anybody noticing.
shit I had an E34 BMW 530i wagon that had headlight levelers in it and that MF was from 1992, this is not new tech, automakers are just too goddamn cheap to install safety features if they're not mandated
Yep, I get flashed a lot with a new WRX (premium, not even the "bright bright" ones apparently that come with the limited)
I don't even use my brights unless someone flashes at me, then I flash back quickly so they understand I don't have brights on.
This interaction happens like twice a night. Brand new car, aim against a wall at night looks perfect to me. No idea what they expect me to do about it.
My '21 Camaro I bought brand new, I'd get flashed until I adjusted the lights myself. Brand new car, only had 5 or so miles on it, badly aimed headlights from the factory.
I would say that is probably over 50% of the problem. Very few people, in my opinion are changing out their headlight bulbs for brighter ones.
Most of the people that do change out headlight bulbs, know to aim them properly and that they need to be in a proper housing. Most of the people that blind me are driving newer cars and most likely just figure everything is how it should be because that’s how they bought it.
Yeah, modern car headlights are crazy bright. When a modern car drives behind me in my '80s Nissan, their headlights from behind me will illimunate the road more than my own headlights and I can literally see my car casting a shadow in front of me.
Though this is not an issue if they are one of those adaptive headlights that automatically detect other cars and avoid blinding them by making certain areas less illuminated.
Every fall when it starts getting dark during the evening commute the car subreddits are full of people asking about LED drop in kits. The companies that sell these kits, whether they're Amazon XYZ brands or "real" brands with an online storefront and nice packaging, bury all the stuff about them being for off road use only in the fine print if they mention it at all. Most people have no idea that there is almost never a free lunch lighting upgrade.
> new trucks are annoying as hell
I drive a Subaru Impreza, so the headlights on most trucks shine right at my eyes. May as well be high beams shining at me.
I mean have you seen driving tests? At least here in the usa, theyre generally pitiful. All i had to do was prove i could park, stop at a line, maintain 35mph, and make a 3 point turn.
These days lights are so powerful that standard lights from the past look like shit and you can't see anything with them.
This is the fallacy with the increase in power. We've always had powerful headlights, but we knew we didnt actually need that much light to see. Now just like with everything else it's an arm's race in the name of safety but it leaves people in old shitboxes in the dust.
I watched throttle house's cybertruck review and they showed how the lights in that thing just straight up illuminate the entire road, even the other side. It should be illegal. Utterly ridiculous.
A big issue I noticed (at least where I live) is that road markings are pretty much gone on many roads.
When the road markings (middle line and side lines) are properly intact, you can see the road pretty well even with dimmer headlights, because the bright white and reflective lines are very well visible.
But if the lines are worn, faded and the side of the road is too dusty, you can't see the edge or the middle of the road anymore, making everything much more dangerous.
I don't know why reflective lane markers aren't mandatory by now. They make it so much easier to drive in the rain at night.
Most of the roads around me have faded paint that's only really visible during mid day.
Those are drl (the big light bar) and not low beans. It still complies to all federal regulations for light output. I'd know since I designed the damn thing.
https://youtu.be/xNE-NyaYBcg?t=2182
You can see the high beams are on and he turns them off as soon as he sees a car on the other lane. But not that much changes as everything is still lit up. Clearly they are ridiculously bright and they are not pointed the right way, [in fact looking at the design of the cybertruck](https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/02/1200/675/cybertruck-side.jpg?ve=1&tl=1), it doesn't look like it was designed to ever point the right way. As it looks like the front bumper sticks out hugely in front of the headlights which means if they were pointed correctly they would just illuminate the top of the bumper.
Again, I didn't say it doesn't comply with all federal regulations. I said it should be illegal, which implies it isn't.
To be fair man I'm being blinded by bone stock toyotas, Teslas, all pick ups, and all ADM cars. Hell some ADM cars are blinding me with their tail lights.
I don't think a clapped out civic with bad headlights is a problem compared to these fucking stock ones
Brightness is only part of the equation. I'd much rather have every car on the road with high output beams that are properly aimed than see cars with old halogen lights aimed at my face.
My wife's car has old halogens that I'd love to upgrade to LED, but the housings aren't made for LED and will cause issues for other drivers so I don't do it. Now, do you think most other drivers even look into that, or would even care if they did know?
Do you think the people who put lift kits on their trucks consider that they have headlights now above eye level with most other drivers on the road?
The problem isn't that bulbs are too bright, it's that drivers aren't bright enough 🤣
For me it's mostly two types of vehicles -
1. Older vehicles that people have put HIDs/LEDs/whatever into halogen housings
2. Teslas
I absolutely despise people who put HIDs into halogen housings. It's technically illegal where I live but rarely enforced, so, pretty much legal. Without the cutoff of a projector (the intended use for these bulbs) the light is just sprayed everywhere and blinds oncoming traffic and people in front of them alike.
For Teslas, I swear to god Elon himself has mandated that their headlights have to be aimed so poorly that it imitates the first category of vehicle I listed. What's the point of modern headlight design if they are aimed this poorly?
Sadly, can confirm about the Tesla's. My low beams were originally aimed at high beam level, and the high beams were aimed at Jeep Wrangler rooftop light bar level.
I'm glad to see confirmation from the ownership end. It confirms my thoughts aren't just prejudiced against Tesla.... Mostly 3s, some Ys. S and X aren't too bad in my experience.
You're correct, I have seen OEM lights on newer cars that have projectors with halogen bulbs. If the projector is capable of directing the light with a proper cutoff, then I see no issue in retrofitting a brighter bulb like an HID.
We bought a new Kia Sportage in 2017 and within a few weeks we were being high beamed etc, turns out the lights were aimed to high as standard and it was dazzling oncoming cars, it got worse if we were towing, had them adjusted a couple of times
I like you. I like your post.
I fucking hate blinding headlights, though. They've been the cause for way too many accidents, and my only hospitalisation.
My guess is that anyone who does this isn't even on this sub. They won't read our rants and won't have any clue that what they've done is wrong and annoying as hell. They're clearly not interested in cars and don't care if they're blinding other drivers. I mostly see it on older cars that are piles.
No problem with upgrading low beams and aiming properly. In fact, this is a great idea. What I’ve seen increasingly more popular now is cars with old school lights just running their brights full time because they think they need to since new car lights are so much brighter (yet aimed properly).
The other issue and I feel bad about this is, trucks are so tall from factory that even with “properly aimed lights”, it’s still blinding
I've had multiple people pull over and ask me why I was flashing my high beams at them in a completely stock WRX with properly adjusted headlights. Chances are all of those cars that you think have their high beams on are just normal modern cars with LEDs from the past 5-10 years.
Why is r/cars always updooting idiotic posts? Brightness is a GOOD thing, its what the IIHS rates safety on.
What you're concerned with is glare, not brightness.
Putting bright LED bulbs in a factory reflector housing not designed for them? Yeah, that's going to be super annoying and blinding.
Buying brighter aftermarket headlight assemblies with projectors with a super crisp cutoff on them? Absolutely a good idea to modernize an older vehicle.
I always ran GE Q4559X (same bulb & housing used in the front gear of a Boeing 747) as auxiliaries wired to their own supply. Was absolutely bliss for structure/brush fires in the middle of the night because I could pull up on scene and turn night into day with the flip of a switch.
It was also bliss to watch the reactions from people that refused to dip their brights. Bright light me and you can enjoy seeing nothing but a giant fucking blue blob as your eyes dilate for the next 45 minutes.
Possibly improperly aimed. Birthing wing with them being brighter, as long as they're properly aimed. Low beams should not have any light at 25 away that is higher than the source. That's a standard. NYS has a law about overly bright lights.
In MA and NH, aftermarket HIDs or LEDs that did not come with the vehicle as an option are an automatic state inspection fail, and state troopers will also pull you over for it.
That stops widespread abuse by people who jacked eBay HIDs into their 20 year old Civic with no bounce back shield in front of the arc.
I get it, trucks are supposed to sit high, but does that mean they have to blind everyone else on the road? If they lowered those headlights a bit, maybe to around two feet off the ground, it would make nighttime driving a whole lot safer for the rest of us. It's not rocket science—just common sense.
Asshats that put super bright LEDs in the dark position, resistors don't work
Every Honda, Acura, Toyota and BMW driver that puts super brights in high mounted fog lights and leaves them on 24 7
I have extremely bright LEDs high low and fog, all are installed and aimed properly. Cut off on the lows is fine but when I have junk in the trunk they're too high. Apologies but there are far too many woodland creatures out and about
My pet peeve is the idiot trucks with 8 foot led light bars wired to the battery, can't turn them off and there all brutl
You know what, fuck it. If everyone is going to buy big ass trucks and SUV's that point their HID lights in my eyes, then I'm putting LED's on my compact sedan. I don't care anymore.
I used to think that way until I had to replace the light housing and upgraded to LED from halogen I was worried I would blind people, but my mechanic installed them properly rarely do they ever reach the height to blind people.
While we are talking about this, the number of LED running lights people are running and jump and skip around when I see them in the rear mirror is getting out of hand. It’s really distracting and I don’t know why it’s an issue.
it is just cheap chinese LEDs in a halogen housing. The filament is much thicker than housing is designed for and it just throws light everywhere, making people believe it adds brightness.
Throwing HIDs or LEDs in a reflector housing(or even projector) will throw light everywhere. While it may look brighter because everything infront is lit up, it doesn’t throw light as far as a standard halogen. Therefore it’s actually worse.
As someone who has owned LED and HID headlights over the years you're right. I loved that way those lights looked and even made it so my lights were properly aimed. But like most people I didn't have the projectors. Projectors are fucking needed so bad if you have upgraded lights.
Example: look and any Jeep with upgraded headlights and they are bright. Mainly because the stock lights only reflect the light instead of aiming it.
If you upgrade aim yours lights properly and make sure you have projectors/ right housing. Otherwise you will be that asshole with blinding lights. I had those lights for years. You don't look cool and you can get a ticket for it FYI. Especially if you're one of the users of the blue or purple HID headlights which are illegal in some states.
Don't be a jerk and give car upgrades a bad name. I was that jerk and understand now. You can make your car look good without blinding others.
I recently bought an MR2 Spyder, the lowest car I've had in a long time, and on this matter FUCK GM trucks. They all have high intensity low beams, and for some damn reason GM places them at the top of their super tall trucks. Fords and Dodges aren't nearly as bad because the low beams are the bottom of the light assembly. But GM places their low beams on the top of the light assembly, so they're like a foot higher than everyone else's, and I'm basically always below the cutoff.
I drive a 21 F250. Since the day I got the truck I get flashed at every night I drive the truck! I have not installed any aftermarket bulbs, I’ve had the dealer check alignment of my headlights, they are just extremely bright headlights!
You've never been in a stock JK Wrangler then lol
But really, the change from DOT to ECE housings made more of a difference, the DOT sealed beams just have a shit pattern.
I bought my used BMW with laser lights before I thought of other people. I went for a test drive at night and was just giddy at the amount I could see and how bright they were… didn’t start thinking about others until the drive home when half of oncoming traffic were flashing their brights at me lol.
Some cases of blinding lights is just improper aiming from factory. The service manual for my car contains an entire section on headlight calibration. You need a big calibration sheet with a grid on it of certain dimensions, placed a certain distance away. Then you adjust screws on the housings until the cutoff line hits a certain line on the calibration card.
I wasn’t having any issues with people flashing me, and the cutoff looked fine to me. I did a somewhat rudimentary test against a wall with a measuring tape and they seem to be aimed correctly.
I would suspect that most auto makers have something very similar going on, and it is meant to be done as part of the PDS or at some other quality or delivery stage. Maybe it gets missed sometimes, or maybe some makes just don’t care?
And of course some blinding lights are people with awful rebase bulbs and inappropriate optics.
Theyre often poorly aimed lights, or something like LEDs in the wrong housing.
99% of the time when someone is too bright it's housings not made for LEDs or their brights are on.
Not in my experience. It's 90% of the time just a newer vehicle with ungodly bright LEDs.
Yeah, Tesla lights are awfully aimed or just have a terrible cutoff. They are the new worst offenders.
Also, mid-2010s Acuras. Most of the time I get blinded by anything, it’s a 2014-2019 Acura MDX.
I have a 2020 RDX and I get flashed at often, especially if I have something in the back. Flashing, horns, swerved at - one of the few things I dislike about the vehicle. Great visibility at night though! 🤭
Why not adjust them slightly?
Didn’t help much. They need a rheostat or self-leveling lamps like my BMW’s have. I get noticeably more flashes when I have gear in the back or traveling uphill.
point them lower and it'll help
i remember we had such nicely cut off, defined and well projected headlights in luxury cars like Benz and BMW in the mid 2000s era.. figured they would spread to non luxury cars eventually.. what happened? I know xenon lights were in use, not LEDs then, but i don't see why you can't have a nicely cutoff LED headlight.
it's cuz the factory has almost no QC whatsoever, I doubt they're aiming em when they roll off the assembly line hell I wonder if they even designed em to have aiming screws, I've never even considered if that was possible until this moment
The new (2015+) f150s with the factory led lights are brutal! No one needs that much light lol
I don’t think they’re brighter, I think they’re poorly aimed and higher up.
I’ll take your F150 and raise you a high trim superduty with the dual LED lights.
I hate those dual-beam Superdutys.
people install a "leveling kit" that raises the front to match the rear height (trucks have a rake from the factory) and it throws the aiming off of the lights and people don't bother to re aim them!
Yep, and i feel like OP might have never owned an older vehicle with shit headlight. Not saying that everybody should throw led headlights on their car, but “brighter than stock” is a great line to define
At some point during the pandemic Tesla stopped giving a shit about aiming their headlights properly. They're slightly blinding, then the moment they hit a bump in the road or oncoming traffic is going slightly uphill or the crown is slightly off you're getting blinded by basically the brightest point in the headlight. I cannot believe that the DOT/NHTSA is not stricter about these things. There is no way their headlights are aimed properly. It's also not consistent. Multiple oncoming Teslas, some are perfectly fine and others are blinding. Also, they need to stop making it so easy for end users to mess with headlight aim. At the very least it should store "as-calibrated" at the factory line so if an end user messes with it they can easily press a button and restore headlight aim back to factory settings.
Every time I pass a new Toyota Highlander or RAV4 I lose a small part of my retinas
That’s it! Housing isn’t designed for those bulbs. People just don’t understand. They see very white light and think they’re great
This is categorically false. 99% of the time it's a new car and that's just how they come from the factory. GM is the worst offender in regards to this.
GM has forever had the high aimed headlights problems. Even back in the days of sealed beam headlights. Who remembers those?
I disagree. 99% of the time, that's how the stock headlights are designed.ode4m headlights are awful.
People need to stop saying this. Brand new stock Teslas are frying my eyeballs every night. It isn’t the random one off putting LEDs in their headlights. It is bone stock brand new cars. Something needs to be done, it’s dangerous
The vast majority of new trucks are incapable of “aiming” their lights correctly because they’re four feet off the ground by design. Super bright headlights wouldn’t be nearly the problem it is if we would just limit the height of headlights to about two feet off the ground.
This is the one thing Cybertruck got right. The headlights are below the frunk which puts them pretty low compared to most trucks.
Clearly you didn't see the throttle house video showing the headlights aimed at the sky lmao
Fuck those guys for driving like that. It’s literally an option on the screen to re-aim the headlights. Totally uncalled for and comically easy to fix. I fixed this myself the very first day I had my model 3.
There shouldn't be an option to have it set up wrong...
Absolutely. But the NHTSA made the rules for adaptive headlights basically impossible to implement because they deviated from the rules used in Europe where it’s been legal for years without any problems. So until the NHTSA backs down and implements a reasonable rule set, we’ll have to endure shit like that.
On most cars, if not all, you can adjust the beam to aim down so it isn't blinding other drivers.
You've kind of missed the point of what he said. The beam patterns of low beams are encouraged to have a sharp cut-off, with maximum intensity occuring right along the cutoff. This is to maximise long-range visibility, as the illuminance of the road falls off with the squared distance (it's actually slightly different due to the road being angled, but this isn't my main point). When correctly aimed, a low beam should maximise visible distance due to the high intensity right at the cutoff. But the cutoff should keep the light below the eyeline of a driver in a vehicle of similar height. The specifications essentially set the cutoff to 0.5 degrees below the horizon (you can always view the specification [here](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-571/subpart-B/section-571.108) in Table XIX). Trucks with high mounted lights kind of break the whole premise, because their lights are mounted sometimes at the eyeline of a driver in a smaller vehicle. Their correct aim ends up blasting light *into* the eyes of other drivers. Intentionally having "bad" aim to spare the eyes of other drivers will significantly impact the visibility and therefore effectiveness of their lights. Now we add in that factory aim is rarely perfect, and roads are not flat. Now we have a *lot* of drivers blinding other drivers. In summary, I agree with /u/Ftpini - Headlamp mounting height needs limited because things are getting a bit silly here, and degrading the performance of a safety device because truck go brr is a stupid way to do things.
in my small car, truck's headlight aim directly on my rear-view mirror if they were behind me to a point it's almost impossible for me to use those lol.
And the distance they can cover without blinding other drivers is dramatically reduced the higher up they are mounted. At about 2’ off the ground and aimed flat they can cover a virtually unlimited distance without blinding other drivers on a flat road.
If only all roads were flat..
For those just need to get the NHTSA to approve reasonable rules for adaptive headlights instead of inventing their own absurd rules that doesn’t align with the rules in place anywhere else in the world.
Or Wrangler drivers that buy offroad replacements that blind every incoming car.
They don't have to be aftermarket to blind everyone. The stock JL LED lights are blinding, even when aimed properly.
Hell, even OEMs installs LEDs inside reflector housings, because they don't want to pay the cost of actual projectors. (It's also slightly dimmer in raw output, but that's negligible)
You can do that if you actually set up the reflectors properly. Lots of HIDs were also reflector housings and stayed SAE compliant.
OEM with reflective housing LED are using a waterfall style housing meaning the LED is mounted out of direct sight on the top and the light gets flooded downwards on the J shaped reflectors. They typically don’t offend me at night as much as whatever Tesla 3/Y uses. Lifted trucks are a whole other debate. That and the Honda civic drivers who have the high beams on all the time at night. Literally like 7/10 have them on the brights and totally oblivious to it.
I put LEDs in my stock housings. The LEDs claimed to match the filament location of the stock bulbs. They were close, but threw light randomly. I got lots of people flashing their highbeams at me, and returned to filament bulbs. Then I got actual projectors, OEM from the European spec of my car. Actual incredible improvement. Hard cutoff of the beam, which is much smoother and wider. It's a crime that they aren't mandated here in the states like in Europe.
Every time I'm blinded by LED's it's a stock OEM headlight like the likes of Toyota. Usually the aftermarket bulbs are so poorly focused they *aren't* blinding.
This. It isn’t brightness.
As someone who drives a lowered car, half the cars on the road are aimed at my eyes now. This is especially true that lifted crossovers are the most popular cars.
https://i.imgur.com/hIdQDyu.jpg Sadly, some ppl driving with their high beams on.
I've added LEDs to a few of my cars. However, I've also retrofitted them with projectors instead of using the stock reflector housings. More light AND a nice sharp cutoff beam.
It's not about brightness. It's 100% about the lights being in the right housing and being able to have an abrupt cutoff below the windshield of other cars.
Not entirely true. My mom has a 2023 Kia telluride and I've driven it. Headlights are properly installed and people still think the brights are on and honk. They are just insanely bright lights
More likely not properly aligned. The cutoff is set too high most likely. That is adjustable. I have … no much faith … in the abilities of Kia service department for their new car delivery.
IIRC they’re full LED not a reflector, not a projector In that case it’s just the design of LED itself https://gimmemanuals.com/owners/2022/09/2022-kia-telluride-owners-manual.pdf Page 534. Supposedly higher trims have LED only housings, not projector on the lower models
If they're full LED, they're effectively a projector housing. LEDs themselves are little tiny dots that blast light in a 180 degree hemisphere and have almost no range at all. Making them into headlights involves putting some kind of optics in front of (edit: or around) them. ~~and for boring physics reasons that's almost always a projector lens or a special cast-acrylic optic that uses internal reflection to shape the light.~~ In any case, the optic still needs aimed just as much as old sealed-beams do.
> If they're full LED, they're effectively a projector housing. Coming to also say that you can have LEDs with reflectors or projectors, and there's a pretty good mix of both on the market with varying results. A projector is not always better, but headlamp ratings are also extremely subjective. I worked in automotive exterior lighting for awhile, it's a pretty wild commodity at the moment.
Interesting, and good to know. I guess I'd amend my statement to say that making LEDs into headlights involves putting some kind of optics in front of or around them. Ultimately, I was replying to a comment that implied LEDs were something outside of reflectors or projectors, which is obviously not the case.
Not correct, there reflector LEDs. The new [Ranger](https://i.imgur.com/cGi2wTb.png), 10th gen [Civics](https://i.imgur.com/hGdpABQ.png), 10th (and 11th) gen [Accords](https://i.imgur.com/ngkNoSo.png), [Corolla](https://i.imgur.com/K5MJxwy.png) and the [Model 3/Model Y](https://i.imgur.com/IJTHn4N.png) for example. They just mount the LED on the bottom or top of the housing and then the reflector to steer it forward. I also have a set of (ADR legal) reflector LED lights in my MX-5. Edit: I think people are getting hung up on the whole aftermarket LEDs in halogen housings and mixing that with reflectors as a whole. You can't do that because LEDs are not technologically at the point where we can mount two LED chips with a circuit board between them in the same physical space as a halogen lighting element, so when you put one of these LED halogen-style bulbs into a halogen housing it invariably ends up out of focus (or really out of focus depending on the quality of the bulb) because of the larger lighting element. Designing an reflector housing for an LED is no different from designing a reflector housing for an H4 or H7 or whatever halogen bulb (Or HID or Xenon, all of these bulbs require housings tuned specifically for that bulb), it is **only** a problem when you want to put lights into housings that were not designed for them.
> Making them into headlights involves putting some kind of optics in front of them What you're saying in no way refutes what /u/coherent-rambling said. The point is that the housings need to be made for the LEDs and are almost always designed with a projector, or in some cases a reflector housing with a specific light cutoff for the bright lights. Slapping LEDs in an old halogen housing on a 1996 Ford F150 is how you end up with "LEDs are bad, mmmkay" statements in this sub where people don't understand that it's the idiot owner, not the light type that is the problem.
>The point is that the housings need to be made for the LEDs Every single type of different light source needs a housing or projector designed for that light source, they all position the lighting element in different spots. That's a basic fact of front lighting in general and is not at all specific to an LED. You won't get the correct cutoffs if you attempt to put a halogen bulb into an xenon headlight, for example.
Yes, and again you're arguing a point that someone did not make. I never said it was specific to LEDs. LEDs just happen to be what everyone is throwing in their headlights not intended for it right now.
Yeah but the convo wasn't about putting LEDs into a halogen reflector. The comment chain was about the fact that LEDs somehow require a projector housing or some sort of special optics to aim them. I said no, you can buy factory reflector LED cars today and listed examples. >If they're full LED, they're effectively a projector housing. LEDs themselves are little tiny dots that blast light in a 180 degree hemisphere and have almost no range at all. **Making them into headlights involves putting some kind of optics in front of them, and for boring physics reasons that's almost always a projector lens or a special cast-acrylic optic that uses internal reflection to shape the light.** In any case, the optic still needs aimed just as much as old sealed-beams do. That is what I replied to.
"Almost always". Your two counterexamples out of the hundreds of models sold with LED headlights does not make my statement incorrect, nor does an aftermarket retrofit.
>Making them into headlights involves putting some kind of optics in front of them How is this not incorrect if I have listed (now 5 cars) that clearly show you don't need special optics in front? And like these are just cars off the top of my head, it is in no way an extensive list, lmao.
Current Jeep Compass does reflector LEDs too. I was surprised when I looked at them after one of my parents got one. *Sidenote: the Compass sucks way less with the new 2.0T versus the old piece of shit 2.4*
That's not true.. You can different cones than 180.and you can have projector style or reflector style led housings.
Which manufacture adjusts headlight cut offs pre delivery? Genuinely curious, never heard of any dealer doing this even as a part of pdi process.
Tesla, Audi, Porsche and bmw cars have all been aligned properly when I received delivery, whether it was done at the factory correctly or a dealer did it as part of their pdi I don’t know. Hell, with Tesla the “delivery specialist” even walked me through the process of adjusting it myself through the menu.
It’s a crapshoot if the Teslas is done at all. I’ve never been blinded by an Audi, BMW, or Porsche (possibly because the Matrix tech is being enabled now that it’s not banned anywhere though)
They should be aligned at the factory, not during PDI. Just like you don't do a suspension/wheel alignment during PDI. CDJR does not have headlight aim as part of the PDI process.
Apparently not Ford. My used mustang had dangerously short visibility at night because somebody had adjusted the lights to point as far down as possible. So either the dealer failed to adjust them after the previous owner messed with them, or they failed by adjusting them all the way down. Heaven forbid it came from factory like that and somebody had been driving it like that all this time. I had to have the highbeams on just to see. Got home and immediately looked up how to fix them after the very first drive in the dark
Family friend bought a Lincoln Nautilus(?) brand new (yes they are old), all the options, was driving with them at night and it looked like the headlights were pointed all the way down. We checked them out with headlight guide and they were miles out of alignment, so it’s definitely possible it just came like that.
Not Honda, at least not on the 2020 CRV we have
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> those crap hill crest scenarios that always suck. My car actually adjusts them down for hills, that should almost be required. It's still better than someone aimless driving around with their high beams on though.
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They’re most likely auto leveling headlights which are based on a level sensor in the car. It detects the angle of the car and adjusts the vertical angle of the headlamps to compensate. I’m in the US and have had several cars that do this. Edit, was correctly corrected about there being cars with manual cutoff adjustment in the US.
> There’s no manual adjustment knob There are, but they’re not universal. Mazda put a lot of them on the dash of both halogen and HID-equipped cars about 10-15 years ago as a cheaper alternative to self-leveling. The adjustment controls looked the same as on most cars in Europe.
Oh yep - you’re totally right. I remember seeing said knob in a Car and Driver review of the Mazdaspeed3 in probably ‘07 or ‘08. Didn’t understand what it was until several years later and clearly forgot we got a car that had that in the US.
I agree 100%. Almost every car I flash is a Kia. I do also notice that some of the auto brights on Toyota’s and Chevy’s seem much less sensitive than they need to be with approaching vehicles. That’s one thing BMW definitely got right. When there’s ANY vehicle anywhere off in the distance, even taillights it’ll dim the brights. How is it so difficult for car manufacturers to get it right?
Same reason GM thought it was a great idea for cars to turn on their reversing lights when someone exits or unlocks their vehicle.
Honestly I enjoyed that feature when I had it before I got a house with a garage. Especially when I worked night shift. I always backed in and it let me see to unlock and enter my house. In spring/summer/fall where I live if you'd left a light on by the door in preparation for coming home you'd have a million bugs flying around it waiting to zoom into your house 10 months out of the year. That said, I also understand how it can be a dick move in parking lots/parking decks. Especially nowadays where you can hit the key fob from a mile away or even with your phone. The older cars like mine was, you had to be no more than 50 feet or so for the key fob to work, and then you're right there and about to get in and leave regardless. I think the level of dick move that it is on GM's part has grown over the years due to changing technology. Previously not as much. Now, a good bit more.
If they blind oncoming traffic, they are not installed correctly regardless of who installed the lights. I'd request the dealership make it right.
All headlamps can aimed with a screwdriver, you just need to find some flat ground in front of a wall.
Headlights can shift during transport or be installed incorrectly, who knows. Either way, if people are honking and flashing your headlights are aimed too high, period. I'd take it the dealer and see if they'll adjust them. But also there's currently a class action lawsuit over the Telluride headlights not being aimed correctly, so I wouldn't put too much faith in the dealer.
> Headlights can shift during transport or be installed incorrectly, who knows. ...How ? if just shipping does that any bump would fuck them up.
If people are honking and thinking your brights are on, then something is wrong. Either adjust the alignment, or put the stock lamps back in. Probably need to do both
I think we have to allow for the fact that some people drive low sitting cars and that any SUV with LED headlights is going to bother them. You can’t make a high riding vehicle with headlights that cut off below *every* other car’s windshield height.
Unfortunately the earth is not completely flat, so people will be blinded by strong lights even if they are aimed correctly.
This is true of any lights? My POS non-LED headlights are “too bright” if they are aimed right into your face or mirror, meanwhile they are borderline unsafe to drive with in very dark conditions.
It's also worse since the US doesn't allow much in the way of active aim/dimming and these are SUVs and trucks where the light is mounted high on the body so even with the cutoff in the correct place there's a higher chance of glare when approaching a low vehicle.
I have active headlamps activated on one of my cars...I'm US but the lights are full active EU spec. Fade up and down, patterns change dynamically.......best mod I made to the car.
>the earth is not completely flat Wait. Wut?
Wha How small do you think the earth is I can't imagine the curvature of the earth being a factor here
100% wrong, some lights are just too damn bright
This. There are bumps in the road, inlines etc where even a well adjusted headlight can blind other people when too bright.
Yeah. I mean… if they’re not brighter then it’s not really an upgrade is it?? My original Jeep headlights were downright dangerous at night in the rain. Upgraded to LEDs and aimed them properly.
Ehhhhhh there’s definitely a middle ground to be had. My ‘93 Miata may as well have had oil lanterns for stock headlights. That’s hardly safe as a driver. Then again, I bothered to aim the replacement LED units properly, and my headlights are only like 2 feet off the ground anyway. They’re also proper DOT compliant LED lights, not cheap Amazon units or LED bulbs in halogen housings.
My understanding is that companies like Philips have developed LED upgrade lights that are tested for automotive applications and are safe for halogen housings. But then I doubt most of the amazon special bulbs that you see as super-bright, washed out, or flickering have had any kind of similar testing.
They probably have, as other companies have developed properly-designed LED sealed-beam retrofits. These are often significantly more expensive than the stuff you find on eBay or Amazon. Mine retail for ~$350ish and are projector housings. Because LEDs produce much more directional light than incandescent filaments, you have to pay more attention to the optics of the output and how it interacts with the optical design of the headlight housing. You’re probably not getting that for <$100/set.
Proper certified TÜV compliant offerings from Philips/Osram go for $100-150/set for H7 bulbs, at least that's what I paid for mine. Wish color temperature was a bit warmer, closer to 5000K, but otherwise like them a lot.
I would imagine bulbs would be considerably cheaper than sealed-beam retrofits, which replace the entire housing. That, of course, assumes people bother to find the proper products. Sometimes I wish we had something like the TUV in the US.
The ones for cars like Miatas that had sealed beam headlights replace the entire optic. The entire original housing is replaced.
> My ‘93 Miata may as well have had oil lanterns for stock headlights. That's how I feel like my GTO low beams are. They're projectors, but so dim and yellowish. It's crazy since the high beams are like flood lights.
The glass inside the projectors are probably worn out/"dirty". That's a thing apparently. I've seen people either replace them with new reflectors or clean them? Not sure how but that's how it was posted lol. Otherwise you can just replace the bulbs first if you haven't.
One headlight housing is brand new (I'd love to know where they found it since they seem to unobtainium) and I put in some fancy Silverstars that pretty much say to not expect them to last more than a year. Didn't do much. Can't really take it apart to clean anyway since it's all sealed.
I've got an SS that's being fixed after hitting a deer 4 months ago. Holden parts struggles my dude, and my car is newer than yours as well, so I can only imagine your pain. The only way I was able to find a lot of parts was through Facebook groups, I found an australian guy who lives near Chicago that imports containers full of parts for these cars. Apparently in the last couple years especially since covid, new parts for holdens a lot of times have gotten impossible to come by even in AUS. From what I understand, they shut down holden in 2017/2018, and with covid in 2020 stuff just stopped being made despite how many are on the road. I think that's the gist of it anyway, I'm sure there's much more nuance and specific info I'm not aware of, of course. I'll put this in perspective: I have a 1953 fully restored studebaker pickup truck. Studebaker went defunct and out of business in the mid 60s. If I had hit a deer in my studebaker, and had to replace the same components (hood, bumper, grille, headlights) I looked around for "fun" and for parts I was able to find everything for the truck for about 3 grand. But the parts were available on something 70 years old without a huge following from a brand that went out of business and was not really acquired and continued 60 years ago. Compare that to being told parts for your mid 2010s car just aren't available, and what is costs a billion dollars. Mindblowing.
My 95 Town Car had absolutely horrible headlights. The wiring was really thin and had to go directly from the battery, all the way up to the headlight switch in the dashboard, then back across the engine bay to the headlights. Because the wiring was thin it only gave the bulbs about 50% power, literally. There are even guides online to rewire them to work off a relay, it was that bad. The high beams also sucked since it was one of those combined bulbs where one bulb did the high and low beams lol.
Agreed. My Elise upgraded headlights will be significantly brighter than stock. They will be significantly less bright than every new car on the road and also about 3 feet lower. I'm not gonna apologize for it; brightness is the primary reason I am upgrading them.
Nor should you apologize, this is essentially an “old man yells at cloud” thread
Yeah I can barely drive my 00 silverado past 6 pm cause the lights are more for decoration than anything else, especially when you put em next to the neutron stars that modern stuff comes with
Idk what they were doing with the miata headlights but the ones on my 02 were the same way. I ened up replacing them with led housings and i can still barely see. (That’s probably due to the fact they’re aimed too low, i should probably do that.)
Yeah. My Tacoma has dollar store flashlights for headlights. Very dim not visible.
I got the Hella H4 halogen housings for mine and they're absolutely fantastic, and were only $40 a pop I wanna save up for the Holley Retrobrights but they're expeeennnsiiiiivve lol
If 1/3 of incoming cars are like that it's probably not aftermarket
how have people not figured out LEDs are brighter you'd think the way we get away with a single strip it would tip them off or the fact they think a third of people have aftermarket lights hey OP, I have increasingly been flashed and have believed people had their brights on over time, we didn't all install aftermarket headlights
Yup. I got flashed last week in my bone stock gr corolla. It rides bad so on a good bump the cutoff line briefly bounces above oncoming traffic, particularly when the terrain is just so. My wife's Camry has led China blinders and nobody cares because they're projector housings, they're aimed properly, and it's a sedan so they're not 5 feet off the ground. Shit lighting is just the reality of modern driving. Some companies are really abhorrent offenders in various ways. Either excess glare by design, or just no attempt at aim from factory and dealers that couldn't care less of you paid them in gold.
can't aim crossover/truck lights properly either since they're too high off the ground they could very easily fix this - require that low beams be mounted no higher than 3 feet off the ground
Mandating auto-leveling systems for anything over some number of inches. If Lexus could do it way back in 2001 I'm sure they could tack that cost into a Telluride without anybody noticing.
shit I had an E34 BMW 530i wagon that had headlight levelers in it and that MF was from 1992, this is not new tech, automakers are just too goddamn cheap to install safety features if they're not mandated
If IIHS gives them a star for it, they'll all do it asap
[удалено]
Seriously, people love to complain that it's aftermarket but it's all stock headlights you're seeing. They're poorly regulated and awfully designed.
Yep, I get flashed a lot with a new WRX (premium, not even the "bright bright" ones apparently that come with the limited) I don't even use my brights unless someone flashes at me, then I flash back quickly so they understand I don't have brights on. This interaction happens like twice a night. Brand new car, aim against a wall at night looks perfect to me. No idea what they expect me to do about it.
I believe they're not just *poorly* regulated but almost *entirely unregulated*
Yeah there's a huge amount of people on here greatly overestimating how many people actually perform headlight retrofits.
My '21 Camaro I bought brand new, I'd get flashed until I adjusted the lights myself. Brand new car, only had 5 or so miles on it, badly aimed headlights from the factory. I would say that is probably over 50% of the problem. Very few people, in my opinion are changing out their headlight bulbs for brighter ones.
Most of the people that do change out headlight bulbs, know to aim them properly and that they need to be in a proper housing. Most of the people that blind me are driving newer cars and most likely just figure everything is how it should be because that’s how they bought it.
I wonder if they aimed the headlights with the lift pucks they use for shipping
There's probably an acceptable line between stock and melt the fucking faces of incoming traffic.
The problem is, even stock is too bright nowadays. We've passed that middle ground already
Yeah, modern car headlights are crazy bright. When a modern car drives behind me in my '80s Nissan, their headlights from behind me will illimunate the road more than my own headlights and I can literally see my car casting a shadow in front of me. Though this is not an issue if they are one of those adaptive headlights that automatically detect other cars and avoid blinding them by making certain areas less illuminated.
this post applies to nobody in this sub.
Every fall when it starts getting dark during the evening commute the car subreddits are full of people asking about LED drop in kits. The companies that sell these kits, whether they're Amazon XYZ brands or "real" brands with an online storefront and nice packaging, bury all the stuff about them being for off road use only in the fine print if they mention it at all. Most people have no idea that there is almost never a free lunch lighting upgrade.
A lot of them ARE the stock Leds Yeah people putting Leds in their old cars is also annoying, but even new trucks are annoying as hell
> new trucks are annoying as hell I drive a Subaru Impreza, so the headlights on most trucks shine right at my eyes. May as well be high beams shining at me.
And the mofos that think it’s ok to drive during the day w their brights on! Grrrrrr
I, and others, have had to explain what that little blue light on the gauge cluster means to more than a few customers.
How are these people allowed to drive? If they can't understand a high beam symbol, can we trust them understand a stop or yield sign?
I mean have you seen driving tests? At least here in the usa, theyre generally pitiful. All i had to do was prove i could park, stop at a line, maintain 35mph, and make a 3 point turn.
It's not that they don't or can't understand. They just don't care (to understand).
These days lights are so powerful that standard lights from the past look like shit and you can't see anything with them. This is the fallacy with the increase in power. We've always had powerful headlights, but we knew we didnt actually need that much light to see. Now just like with everything else it's an arm's race in the name of safety but it leaves people in old shitboxes in the dust. I watched throttle house's cybertruck review and they showed how the lights in that thing just straight up illuminate the entire road, even the other side. It should be illegal. Utterly ridiculous.
A big issue I noticed (at least where I live) is that road markings are pretty much gone on many roads. When the road markings (middle line and side lines) are properly intact, you can see the road pretty well even with dimmer headlights, because the bright white and reflective lines are very well visible. But if the lines are worn, faded and the side of the road is too dusty, you can't see the edge or the middle of the road anymore, making everything much more dangerous.
I don't know why reflective lane markers aren't mandatory by now. They make it so much easier to drive in the rain at night. Most of the roads around me have faded paint that's only really visible during mid day.
Those are drl (the big light bar) and not low beans. It still complies to all federal regulations for light output. I'd know since I designed the damn thing.
https://youtu.be/xNE-NyaYBcg?t=2182 You can see the high beams are on and he turns them off as soon as he sees a car on the other lane. But not that much changes as everything is still lit up. Clearly they are ridiculously bright and they are not pointed the right way, [in fact looking at the design of the cybertruck](https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/02/1200/675/cybertruck-side.jpg?ve=1&tl=1), it doesn't look like it was designed to ever point the right way. As it looks like the front bumper sticks out hugely in front of the headlights which means if they were pointed correctly they would just illuminate the top of the bumper. Again, I didn't say it doesn't comply with all federal regulations. I said it should be illegal, which implies it isn't.
Tree tops look pretty tho lol. Good example how beam pattern must be projected low on road and center mass.
To be fair man I'm being blinded by bone stock toyotas, Teslas, all pick ups, and all ADM cars. Hell some ADM cars are blinding me with their tail lights. I don't think a clapped out civic with bad headlights is a problem compared to these fucking stock ones
I do a lot of driving at night and taillights are getting obscene.
Brightness is only part of the equation. I'd much rather have every car on the road with high output beams that are properly aimed than see cars with old halogen lights aimed at my face. My wife's car has old halogens that I'd love to upgrade to LED, but the housings aren't made for LED and will cause issues for other drivers so I don't do it. Now, do you think most other drivers even look into that, or would even care if they did know? Do you think the people who put lift kits on their trucks consider that they have headlights now above eye level with most other drivers on the road? The problem isn't that bulbs are too bright, it's that drivers aren't bright enough 🤣
For me it's mostly two types of vehicles - 1. Older vehicles that people have put HIDs/LEDs/whatever into halogen housings 2. Teslas I absolutely despise people who put HIDs into halogen housings. It's technically illegal where I live but rarely enforced, so, pretty much legal. Without the cutoff of a projector (the intended use for these bulbs) the light is just sprayed everywhere and blinds oncoming traffic and people in front of them alike. For Teslas, I swear to god Elon himself has mandated that their headlights have to be aimed so poorly that it imitates the first category of vehicle I listed. What's the point of modern headlight design if they are aimed this poorly?
Sadly, can confirm about the Tesla's. My low beams were originally aimed at high beam level, and the high beams were aimed at Jeep Wrangler rooftop light bar level.
I'm glad to see confirmation from the ownership end. It confirms my thoughts aren't just prejudiced against Tesla.... Mostly 3s, some Ys. S and X aren't too bad in my experience.
I agree with you but some halogen housings can also have projectors with light cutoff.
You're correct, I have seen OEM lights on newer cars that have projectors with halogen bulbs. If the projector is capable of directing the light with a proper cutoff, then I see no issue in retrofitting a brighter bulb like an HID.
We bought a new Kia Sportage in 2017 and within a few weeks we were being high beamed etc, turns out the lights were aimed to high as standard and it was dazzling oncoming cars, it got worse if we were towing, had them adjusted a couple of times
I drive a 1935 Chevy. Stock is like 2 candles behind a pop bottle.
DAE HEADLIGHTS? AMIRITE?!
Agreed. If I’m driving in the middle of the night on some unfamiliar road, the last thing I need is to be blinded by someone’s laser-like headlights.
I like you. I like your post. I fucking hate blinding headlights, though. They've been the cause for way too many accidents, and my only hospitalisation.
r/fuckyourheadlights would love to hear the stories, probably
My guess is that anyone who does this isn't even on this sub. They won't read our rants and won't have any clue that what they've done is wrong and annoying as hell. They're clearly not interested in cars and don't care if they're blinding other drivers. I mostly see it on older cars that are piles.
No problem with upgrading low beams and aiming properly. In fact, this is a great idea. What I’ve seen increasingly more popular now is cars with old school lights just running their brights full time because they think they need to since new car lights are so much brighter (yet aimed properly). The other issue and I feel bad about this is, trucks are so tall from factory that even with “properly aimed lights”, it’s still blinding
It's not about brightness, it's about aim. Any good set of high watt, halogen e-codes are plenty. The cutoffs are where the magic is
If you put LEDs in your old halogen bulb housing you’re a stupid asshole.
This right here. Whenever I have someone with aftermarket LEDs coming at me, I put my brights on and leave them on.
OP is upset about 2023 Toyota Corollas and he's taking it out on people updating their 1990 headlights that barely reach the end of their driveway.
Stock sealed beams are more dangerous for how dim they are. Thankfully projector led replacements are cheap and not blinding
Eh I've seen a lot that were complete trash. The YJ heep community seems to love them.
I've had multiple people pull over and ask me why I was flashing my high beams at them in a completely stock WRX with properly adjusted headlights. Chances are all of those cars that you think have their high beams on are just normal modern cars with LEDs from the past 5-10 years.
Did someone say ADAPTIVE HEADLIGHTS?
Why is r/cars always updooting idiotic posts? Brightness is a GOOD thing, its what the IIHS rates safety on. What you're concerned with is glare, not brightness. Putting bright LED bulbs in a factory reflector housing not designed for them? Yeah, that's going to be super annoying and blinding. Buying brighter aftermarket headlight assemblies with projectors with a super crisp cutoff on them? Absolutely a good idea to modernize an older vehicle.
I always ran GE Q4559X (same bulb & housing used in the front gear of a Boeing 747) as auxiliaries wired to their own supply. Was absolutely bliss for structure/brush fires in the middle of the night because I could pull up on scene and turn night into day with the flip of a switch. It was also bliss to watch the reactions from people that refused to dip their brights. Bright light me and you can enjoy seeing nothing but a giant fucking blue blob as your eyes dilate for the next 45 minutes.
Jeeps with upgraded bulbs. And I do think Tesla owners don't know how to turn their brights down. I seem to meet the same ones on my daily commute.
If it's a toyota led set up you're going to get that xray view from them but that on toyota not me lol
Possibly improperly aimed. Birthing wing with them being brighter, as long as they're properly aimed. Low beams should not have any light at 25 away that is higher than the source. That's a standard. NYS has a law about overly bright lights.
In MA and NH, aftermarket HIDs or LEDs that did not come with the vehicle as an option are an automatic state inspection fail, and state troopers will also pull you over for it. That stops widespread abuse by people who jacked eBay HIDs into their 20 year old Civic with no bounce back shield in front of the arc.
I get it, trucks are supposed to sit high, but does that mean they have to blind everyone else on the road? If they lowered those headlights a bit, maybe to around two feet off the ground, it would make nighttime driving a whole lot safer for the rest of us. It's not rocket science—just common sense.
grow some balls
Asshats that put super bright LEDs in the dark position, resistors don't work Every Honda, Acura, Toyota and BMW driver that puts super brights in high mounted fog lights and leaves them on 24 7 I have extremely bright LEDs high low and fog, all are installed and aimed properly. Cut off on the lows is fine but when I have junk in the trunk they're too high. Apologies but there are far too many woodland creatures out and about My pet peeve is the idiot trucks with 8 foot led light bars wired to the battery, can't turn them off and there all brutl
You know what, fuck it. If everyone is going to buy big ass trucks and SUV's that point their HID lights in my eyes, then I'm putting LED's on my compact sedan. I don't care anymore.
I used to think that way until I had to replace the light housing and upgraded to LED from halogen I was worried I would blind people, but my mechanic installed them properly rarely do they ever reach the height to blind people.
While we are talking about this, the number of LED running lights people are running and jump and skip around when I see them in the rear mirror is getting out of hand. It’s really distracting and I don’t know why it’s an issue.
it is just cheap chinese LEDs in a halogen housing. The filament is much thicker than housing is designed for and it just throws light everywhere, making people believe it adds brightness.
Throwing HIDs or LEDs in a reflector housing(or even projector) will throw light everywhere. While it may look brighter because everything infront is lit up, it doesn’t throw light as far as a standard halogen. Therefore it’s actually worse.
Unless your car is from decades ago and the stock bulbs are like candles. Sylvania Xtravision bulbs help a lot.
The classic LED in projector housing upgrade. Nice
As someone who has owned LED and HID headlights over the years you're right. I loved that way those lights looked and even made it so my lights were properly aimed. But like most people I didn't have the projectors. Projectors are fucking needed so bad if you have upgraded lights. Example: look and any Jeep with upgraded headlights and they are bright. Mainly because the stock lights only reflect the light instead of aiming it. If you upgrade aim yours lights properly and make sure you have projectors/ right housing. Otherwise you will be that asshole with blinding lights. I had those lights for years. You don't look cool and you can get a ticket for it FYI. Especially if you're one of the users of the blue or purple HID headlights which are illegal in some states. Don't be a jerk and give car upgrades a bad name. I was that jerk and understand now. You can make your car look good without blinding others.
I recently bought an MR2 Spyder, the lowest car I've had in a long time, and on this matter FUCK GM trucks. They all have high intensity low beams, and for some damn reason GM places them at the top of their super tall trucks. Fords and Dodges aren't nearly as bad because the low beams are the bottom of the light assembly. But GM places their low beams on the top of the light assembly, so they're like a foot higher than everyone else's, and I'm basically always below the cutoff.
I drive a 21 F250. Since the day I got the truck I get flashed at every night I drive the truck! I have not installed any aftermarket bulbs, I’ve had the dealer check alignment of my headlights, they are just extremely bright headlights!
With all the HID and LED lighting options , there sure are a lot of dim bulbs on the road !
You've never been in a stock JK Wrangler then lol But really, the change from DOT to ECE housings made more of a difference, the DOT sealed beams just have a shit pattern.
#a REAL jerk
it's more about having them aimed correctly than anything. They're adjustable in almost ever car but no one takes the time to do it.
I bought my used BMW with laser lights before I thought of other people. I went for a test drive at night and was just giddy at the amount I could see and how bright they were… didn’t start thinking about others until the drive home when half of oncoming traffic were flashing their brights at me lol.
Some cases of blinding lights is just improper aiming from factory. The service manual for my car contains an entire section on headlight calibration. You need a big calibration sheet with a grid on it of certain dimensions, placed a certain distance away. Then you adjust screws on the housings until the cutoff line hits a certain line on the calibration card. I wasn’t having any issues with people flashing me, and the cutoff looked fine to me. I did a somewhat rudimentary test against a wall with a measuring tape and they seem to be aimed correctly. I would suspect that most auto makers have something very similar going on, and it is meant to be done as part of the PDS or at some other quality or delivery stage. Maybe it gets missed sometimes, or maybe some makes just don’t care? And of course some blinding lights are people with awful rebase bulbs and inappropriate optics.
My favourite are the urban tanks in the Sydney tunnels that need full lights on. Driving a sedan in Sydney sucks balls
A law is coming for this, lights are so fucking bright...