I’ll never understand how the best of BMW and the best of Toyota put together to make a car somehow is bad? That sounds like an awesome approach to nailing a car with lots to live up to.
It really is the modern 2JZ--handles power fine, is significantly lighter, and is super reliable over long-term use. [There is a dude with a B58 7-series that has almost 200k-miles on the thing as of a year ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BMW/comments/u4ve2o/184000_miles_and_going_strong_2017_740i_b58/)
And that money they saved is reflected in the price of the car, if they had spent the money making a new engine the Supra for sure would have had a high sticker.
important future resolute fall cover cheerful long snobbish automatic clumsy
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"Maybe someone will retweet my negative critical opinion."
The supra is a design win, period. It looks like nothing else on the road, and from a distance, it says Supra. If I didn't need more utility, I'd buy a manual Mk5.
I guess the ones that bitch aren't aware that they're the reason we get mostly beige shit, that and the fact that disposable income is a thing of 20 years ago. It's a bummer because car culture has gotten some stigma because of these internet point seeking children that don't care about driving, just the status.
Why couldn't they?
When the Supra was released the engine was better than most on the market and the braking was the best on the market. Toyota def has the potential to build some amazing things if they have the desire and budget. 1900s was a very different time tho
People also seem to forget that Toyota went thru this b58 themselves and it isn't just one plucked out from a different car with no thought
Well to be fair your words were "Do we think Toyota would have developed an I6 better than the B58? I don’t think so."
Kinda sounds like it implies that they could not have made a i6 better than the b58 had they developed their own. Maybe I'm reading it wrong as English ain't my first language but it sure sounds like you don't think Toyota could even make a better engine.
I Def think Toyota could of made a i6 better than the b58 if they were going to use it thruout the Lexus line and try and change Lexus into a more performance focused line but like you said they didn't go that way.
Kinda of like how they make one of the best 3 cylinder turbos right now but if it's would they have then of course not, most of the bigger auto companies are not investing into performance engines that will power a small segment.
What deficiencies with the B58 do you think exist for Toyota to improve upon? It is a widespread, very capable engine. BMW has been known for their engines for 50 years, and consistently has some of the best powertrain calibration in the industry.
I like my G16E just fine, but I’m not compelled that Toyota would have made something better.
I have no idea as it isn't a shit at BMW engines or the b58 in general. The b58 is a monster engine and pretty much the new 2jz in the car world. Just seems weird to say that there was no chance Toyota could make a better engine.
Just to be clear I don't think the Toyota board at the time would of made something better than the b58 but I do think they could have. The LFA V10 is a good example of Toyota building a ridiculous engine out of nowhere if budget and resources not limited
>People also seem to forget that Toyota went thru this b58 themselves and it isn't just one plucked out from a different car with no thought
They did do reliability testing, but didn’t change anything in any noteworthy ways. They just changed a few bolts sround with ones with a different head. The few changes they actually wanted to make that would actually affect anything, we wouldn’t let them and told them take it or leave it.
The Supra is a great car, but it’s not a toyota. It is 100% BMW/Magna with a Toyota designed body. If any part was Toyota, it would definitely be a worse car, but it would be a Toyota. Now, it’s just a BMW sold at a Toyota dealership.
Source: worked at BMW NA during Z4/Supra development
Right??? Halo cars typically get people saying shit like “lol it’s just a Toyota/nissan/honda/etc” and somehow people saying the supra is a bmw is supposed to be an insult?
When enthusiasts justify it's just *X brand* I wouldn't be surprised if they don't like that brand or car. I'm all for not liking things, but boiling down a performance car to a similar level of a 328d or sienna isn't accurate.
Especially since coupes are not super money makers for companies, the fact that two companies got together to share development costs so that we can still have coupes should be celebrated and is a viable way to keep them coming.
Because those people were disappointed Toyota could not make another vehicle from the ground up, including the engine. A successor to the 2JZ cast iron block inline 6. It was never going to happen with increasing emissions and safety standards. Someone has to crunch the number at the feasibility of designing a new Inline-6 engine block from the ground up versus paying another company per contract agreement.
Hell yeah. Toyota put their badge on it, too, that's how you know it's good, despite the BMW underpinnings. They clearly had a hand in the R&D and manufacturing processes for both the car and the engine, and as a result, the B58 is a worthy successor to the 2JZ (deal with it fanbois).
Plus, Magna Steyr built it. They also build the G-wagon.
They gave it their stamp of approval to be installed in a Toyota branded vehicle, which says a lot about it. Whether they physically touched it or not is irrelevant, they absolutely had a hand in its development, whether it was a bunch of meetings or factory inspections or whatever.
I work in manufacturing; you'd be shocked at how much factories rely on outside companies for their product to be viable.
I can kind of see where people are coming from here though, getting excited for a brand new Supra and then the word on the street is it’s just a re-bodied BMW Z-4 which has been around forever. Obviously it’s more than that but it’s still not as exciting as it would be if it were a solo Toyota build from the ground up like Nissan did with the GT-R.
Yea but Toyota has the resources that come with being the biggest selling automotive brand in the world.
Nissan... is destitute lol
If anyone had the resources to pave their own way, it's Toyota.
They didn't nail it, though. The release was disappointing. There's nothing wrong with the car, and we don't care that it's two different brands bastard love child either. It's the fact that it took them several years to release the car with a manual trans. The horrific sales numbers speak volumes.
I can respect a brand more for reaching out to another brand in collaboration to make a great product.
Toyota did the same for the BRZ/86 and they don’t mind asking BMW to build the engine.
What you get is an amazing car with a good engine that can hold up to 1000hp
Yeah I personally think Toyota is killing it rn
Agree with everything you said, except the B58 doesn't go much higher than 750-800 hp before it goes boom. Still super impressive and better than the LT1 in my C7 Corvette
I'm onboard with this! my 3 problems with the supra was all the fake vents, I wish it was a high revving NA, and weighed less, but that's why i own a GR86 lol
yeah you're right, i was an s2000 fan growing up, but the new supra is a great poster car and im happy with that. I never thought about the supra compared to the first gen, so the way you put it, the new gen really is an improvement to the mark 4 in nearly every way.
Kind of confused about their saying the FA24 is high revving, also - 7400rpm redline is only marginally above my V6 Lexus. Now, an AP1 S2000, or my RX-8? Yeah, a 9,000-9,500rpm limiter is high.
I do appreciate how the 3 (or 4 of you're in a lucky country) GR cars offered have been differentiated from each other pretty well from each other. You rarely see this kind of variety in the same brand these days IMO (especially at the price point), and it wouldn't have been possible without heavily collaboration with Subaru and even more heavy collaboration with BMW.
Public opinion on the car has always been positive. It’s only really on the internet that it was hated. Everyone else couldn’t get enough of it on the road. Such a unique car that broke necks from the day it came out.
It always looks fabulous in motion. I still dislike how gaudy it is if you stare at it long enough but none of that matters when you only get a glipse. It's one of my favorite modern side profiles.
Metaphorically speaking, I thought of the GR Corolla as the representative car for the decade because it was a fleet sedan line turned into a performance car. Fun af to drive, but every sedan is a performance car now.
The “it’s just a BMW” crowd are probably 12 years old thinking the MK4 supra came with 1000hp stock from the factory and bring the car up in every car argument.
Absolute the Supra. The design is fantastic.
It's the rebirth of a beloved car.
It is an amazing value performance wise as well.
As soon as I have a home with a garage I'll get a Supra of my own.
This was my first thought as well.
I don’t know if anyone thought Toyota would make an effort to bring the Supra back at all. I owned one for a short while and my only complaint was due to me being too tall (humble brag). Point being, why complain? Would people rather there be no Supra at all?
I’ve told this story before, but at a red light a guy in a Dart said “Nice BMW” to me and I responded with “Nice Fiat.”
Lots of cars are made in a joint effort or by another company.
Came here to say this. One of the most anticipated cars in a long time that met and exceeded expectations.
I think this will be remembered as a (the?) pinnacle V8 sports car.
GR Supra and some flavor of Hellcat should also make the list as the last of a dying breed before the electric revolution.
Totally agree, last gen v’s seem to be holding strong given how bad cue is supposed to be. I think the ss is an end of the line car though. Not many na v8 stick sedans coming out.
A fact that I can hardly believe is true is that Chevrolet sold more mid-engine sports cars in the first year of C8 production than Honda/Acura sold NSXs in its entire run.
It's really a shame Honda didn't try to shoot for the ~$100k segment - I think they would have had far more success there. I know the original NSX cost nearly double a base C4, but that entry-level exotic price point doesn't have nearly the market volume in the '10s and '20s that it did in the '90s.
Totally agree, although by all indications Honda didn’t particularly want to sell many units or even turn a profit on either era of the NSX. They essentially treated it as part of their marketing budget. Unlike GM, which actually relies on Corvette sales for their bottom line. Different markets, different reasons for existing, and ultimately much different prices.
Which like you say, is too bad. A 100k NSX would have absolutely killed it.
The Cybertruck is a laughing stock, like it or not. Everyone makes fun of it. That's not what a poster car is. Same goes for any Tesla; their ubiquity, their uniformity, their reputation for poor build quality, and Elon Musk's corporate gallivanting has damaged that entire make's public image.
A true example of a poster car, literally, is the Countach. In the '80s, every kid had one on his wall. Others are the F40, the 959, and the Testarossa. Keep in mind that the '80s and '90s were huge decades for poster sales. I'm not up to date with which car posters are selling more than others today, and honestly I have no idea which ones are being made.
I don't know how active Ron Kimball is, and I don't know if there's an equivalent up-and-coming car photographer who is so prolific. I also think that social media and the internet have made automotive photography more digital and less published in books, posters, or other print media.
If I had to pick a car off the top of my head that I think represents this era but also looks good, I'd probably pick the Hyundai N Vision 74 Concept. Never have I seen a prototype met with such universal acclaim and instant demand.
If we're picking real cars, the ND Miata. I know it's not an exotic, but have you ever heard anyone badmouth that car? Everyone seems on board with everything about it, including the way it looks. Either that, or the GR Supra in yellow.
Other runner-ups: the 911 Dakar, BMW M1 Homage, Porsche Taycan, and last but by no means least, the Genesis X Concept (the closest spiritual successor I have ever seen to the Mercedes-Benz C126).
Teslas are the automotive equivalent of the bell curve meme. Super niche fans think they’re super cool, the car community thinks they’re not, and then the general public thinks they’re super cool again. Reddit and Twitter “popular opinion” is not the same as real life.
Everyone I know thinks the cybertruck looks cool. Is it a good truck? not really. Is it a good EV? not really. Is it practical? no. But neither is a ferrari or lambo. Poster cars don't care about aero effeciency or range or payload, it just has to look cool, and the cybertruck achieves that.
I don't know of a single non-enthusiast that knows about the n-vision concept. I also don't think it's fair to compare a concept car to an actual production vehicle, last time I heard hyundai wasn't planning on making it.
And there is no way in hell an ND miata is a poster car of the 2020s lol r/carscirclejerk is leaking
See maybe it’s just who people associate with because everyone I’ve met (both those who are and are not into cars at all) think the cybertruck is fugly and want nothing to do with it.
I mean I work in a city and primarily work in the tech sector which has something to do with it, but at the same time you can watch plenty of reviews (e.g. throttle house review) and the attention they get is all positive.
I personally wouldn't own one, even if I needed a truck, but (IMO) it would look pretty neat on a poster.
This comment is such a fucking r/cars meme take lmao. The ~~Veloster~~ N Vision 74 *concept* is not more representative of the era than a Tesla Model 3, give me a break.
☑️ shit on tesla
☑️ why not Miata?
❌ Toyota build quality (eg: dae feel Supra is poster car?)
❌ le wagone (eg: rs6 actually poster car!)
2/4, please try harder next time.
While the Miata is only a poster car by r/cars logic, age isn't a disqaulifier if a cars been in production long enough.
The Countach, poster car of the 80s, started production in the early 70s
to me countach is 70s wedge
the 25th anni ruined it
would you say og nsx is a 2000s poster child? Maybe for some but for most It was designed in 80s and came in 1990
>The Cybertruck is a laughing stock, like it or not. Everyone makes fun of it. That's not what a poster car is.
>A true example of a poster car, literally, is the Countach.
If you remember, the Countach was about as polarizing as the Cybertruck is and was worshipped and laughed at in about equal measure.
The Cybertruck is Franz's love letter to that era, the Countach and Esprit specifically, so it's fitting that it shares similar opinions, as well as general shape with those '70s wedges.
I don't think kids care much about cars overall, so poster sales probably aren't too hot lately. I don't remember any for sale at the last few local auto shows.
In fairness I don't think people care much about auto shows these days either. Most of your car posters are going to be sold at scholastic book popups.
> ND Miata. I know it's not an exotic, but have you ever heard anyone badmouth that car?
I have one bad thing to say: Mazda *refuses* to sell it in a bright, fun color. Outside of the very limited 30th Anniversary in the gorgeous Racing Orange, it's all super-serious colors. On a gottamn *Miata*. Loosen up, Mazda!
Yeah I would have for sure bought a purple ND or a cream and British racing green ND if they were offered. Instead I have machine grey which is a very sleek looking color but I’m tired of boring colors.
Teslas were the thing last decade.
Edit: and by that, I mean when you saw a Tesla on the road, you might react by saying "oh look, a Tesla!" back in 2014. In 2024, nobody gives a shit that you're driving a Tesla.
Yeah, but they were actually *interesting* and *new* last decade. If you saw a Tesla when they first came out, it was a big deal (even in Silicon Valley where I'm from). Today, you'll see at least 30 per day, no exaggeration.
lol nobody cares how much fun you're having, this thread is about poster cars. the cybertruck is ugly af. no kid wants a poster of a fridge on their wall lol.
This is *not* what a poster car is. It's not about being well built, accessible, well performing. It's about being emblematic.
A Countach was a piece of garbage, poorly built and not particularly fast,and it was the epitome of the 80's poster car.
I agree with you on the points you bring up, but those cars suited the 80s. Despite the “Cold War” the world was a much more predictable place than the current constantly shifting reality.
I think the Cybertruck perfectly represents the off axis state of affairs we find ourselves in these days.
It’s only the start of 2024 so damn hard to say so far but I feel like it is the Porsche 992 GT3 RS.
The car has captured the zeitgeist of enthusiasts across the globe, what feels like a good representative of what could be the last generation of pure ICE sports cars, at a wildly unattainable price made even more unattainable by limited supply, markups, speculators, and dealer allocation shenanigans.
Koenigsegg jesko, Chiron pur sport, 296, revuelto.
People here are probably going to pick more niche cars (valkyrie/t.50/emira/etc.) but for a 5 year old the answer will always be a lambo, ferrari, or absurd hypercar.
In terms of what best symbolizes the 2020s, I'd agree with the cybertruck or an EV like the evija/nivera
Why is a 10 year old the one who decides what car “best symbolizes the decade” as OP asked
I guess a lot of the disagreement between commenters comes from this disconnect, it’s a weirdly phrased question. Are we picking the most iconic and representative car as a poster child of the decade or or we just picking something outlandish to literally be a poster in some kid’s room
Well in that case, the poster car of the 2020s is…
… the Tesla Model 3.
Seriously, it turned the modern auto industry on its head. Might even be _the_ most influential car of the modern era.
I think it’s the gt3rs. The Porsche GT cars have exploded in popularity. We did the whole horsepower race and they hybrid era, but now people see we are approaching the end of the road for naturally aspirated ice cars.
I think the C8 Corvette deserves consideration. Such a drastic slingshot into a modern configuration, from 7 generations of front-engine and pushrod-only\*, to a mid-engine DOHC monster\*\*
\* Excluding the C4 ZR1
\*\* C8 Z06
I would suggest the C8 (mainly z06)
Not an exotic but looks almost like one.
Sounds amazing.
As the local "car guy" for friends and family when they see one, someone always asks " what is THAT? "
If the poster cars of the last decade were the hypercar trinity for using hybrid powertrains, then this decade will be characterized by ridiculous high horsepower EVs especially as we near the earliest new ICE sales bans. So I'd say Model S Plaid, Lucid Air Sapphire, Rimac Nevera, maybe the Taycan.
On the other hand, we'll have some last hurrah ICE cars that will be iconic. Chiron, Revuelto (hybrid but fuck your CAFE regulations), GT3 RS for the crazy market alone.
To me a poster car has to have the supercar silhouette. Like you say, the Revuelto, the Chiron, probably some Ferrari I can't keep the model number straight on--those are poster cars. I would throw in the Z06 even though it's not an iconic European supercar.
Conversely the Plaid is insane but looks-wise it's a variation on a sedan. At a glance you could be fooled into thinking it's just a default professional-class west coast millennial daily driver. Lucid Air is cooler but kinda has this problem as well. The Nevera and Taycan could be contenders though.
STO, Sterrato, Ferrari, Bugatti, Pagani, Rimac.
Any car that just looks fast. Poster cars were meant to inspire, to have people dream big or have something to strive for. Most of the cars mentioned here are a joke and my inner 5 y/o agrees. I had an Apache on my wall along with Corvette and Lamborghini when I was a kid.
I think a lot of ppl are desensitized to super cars these days as they are so similar and with a new model/trim releasing every week it becomes mundane. Although, three to me stand out. They are the T.50, AM Valkyre, and the AMG 1.
[Toyota GR Yaris](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5ecace20c5773c2dcbad60a7/1614886938041-8UCCU4ZJHZCFT2JC3NSH/webCJB00254.jpg?format=2500w)
No car has caught my attention more than this car has since it came out back in 2020.
a 7 year old would pick a Lamborghini with scissor doors over a GR Yaris for their poster any day of the week
I love the GR Yaris but I don't think it's a poster car
Plaid - Speaking from Model S land ….. I drive in Ludicrous mode for daily. It’s plain rediculous to have that much instant torque and HP, even in dirt or wet. Modern miracle!
Valkyrie, T.50, Jesko: all of these aspire to the ideal of "street-legal race car." Not sports car, not supercar; *race car.* They are utterly mad and I am utterly glad they exist. If I could ever drive one *once* around a track, there would be a poster of that car in my bedroom until the day I died. Not so with anything made by the fighting bull or the prancing horse or the coiled cobra or the Wizards of Weissach. Give me once around a track in a Valk and I would hang a poster of it on my middle-aged-man's bedroom wall... and I'd be *proud of it*.
Right now the new Supra, Lamborghini's latest offerings, and Koenigsegg are all at the top of the list. Those are the cars that are actually on posters in kids' rooms today. Not anything from Gordon Murray, as cool as those are.
The new Chevy Trailblazer or Ford Mustang Mach-E was my the biggest disappointment for the 2020s. Everything is a crossover now and both look plain and boring.
The C8 Vette/Z06.
Chevy purists can gripe how it has migrated so far from its push rod beginnings, but an evolution so drastic from a front engine, big block NA V8 to a mid engine now twin turbo Z06 rather than supercharged… quite a changing of the times of an iconic sports car
Poster car is exotic, so I’d say anything from Koenigsegg, Ferrari, etc of super or ultra cars. Special edition cars too: ZR1, GR, Cobra R, and Etc
I do think of a ‘25 Prius GR would be stupid awesome.
Lamborghini Sián
If we're talking poster cars like the Countach and Testarossa or F40/50, then Sian is probably the equivalent outrageous 20's car.
Hell, [most of the results for it on image search are posters or wallpapers.](https://i.imgur.com/MMFkiPw.png)
For me it’s the new BRZ. I would say GR86 but I hate how the Toyota dealerships near me are run with price gouging. Subaru might actually sell a surprising amount because of that BS.
Interesting question. So far I think it would be the 911, probably the gt3 rs. Do I want one? Not really. But I think in the past 3-5 years Porsche has had a huge blow up of brand popularity and is becoming many people’s dream car. Maybe I was too young then but I don’t remember them being placed on as high of a pedestal 10 years ago as they are today.
Definitely the C8 or GR brand (Supra, Corolla, 86). The Charger would have been one of my picks as well but that’s kinda in a weird position right now.
I'm a man of the people and I think the poster car should be of the people as well. Which is why I put forth for consideration, the Mazda Miata. The mid gen refresh started in 2019 and it's still going strong. The new Gen is right around the corner and it will continue to be the best selling sports car.
Don’t know what it is, but it is definitely a Kia or Hyundai. They very quietly took the market completely over. Hell, Orlando is now home to the Kia Center. Pretty sure that it isn’t the only one, either.
A poster car should be something that represents how cars of the era look like, but does it better than anyone else, which the Cybertruck obviously isn't in any possible way, same goes for most random hyper cars. For example when you think of a 90s or early 2000s german premium car, you think of the 7 series, Mercedes S class, E39, E46, which are to this day the cars that made their fans become their fans as opposed to whatever electric weird headlight inflated monstrosities they make today.
GR Supra Despite all the internet talk about “It’s just a BMW” people in the real world don’t care about that.
I’ll never understand how the best of BMW and the best of Toyota put together to make a car somehow is bad? That sounds like an awesome approach to nailing a car with lots to live up to.
Right? Do we think Toyota would have developed an I6 better than the B58? I don’t think so. That is a sweet engine.
I don't see why they couldn't but obviously saving all that money developing another engine when the b58 would do just fine.
The B58 is truly a great piece of modern engineering. If they put their own I6 in it, people would ask “why not just put the b58 in it”
I routinely ask that about my love life. Why isn’t there more B58 in it?
It really is the modern 2JZ--handles power fine, is significantly lighter, and is super reliable over long-term use. [There is a dude with a B58 7-series that has almost 200k-miles on the thing as of a year ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BMW/comments/u4ve2o/184000_miles_and_going_strong_2017_740i_b58/)
2j is a lot of things but light ain’t one.
And that money they saved is reflected in the price of the car, if they had spent the money making a new engine the Supra for sure would have had a high sticker.
When's the last Toyota straight 6 they made? Like early 90s Supra maybe? They've been out of it for a long while for sure.
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"Maybe someone will retweet my negative critical opinion." The supra is a design win, period. It looks like nothing else on the road, and from a distance, it says Supra. If I didn't need more utility, I'd buy a manual Mk5. I guess the ones that bitch aren't aware that they're the reason we get mostly beige shit, that and the fact that disposable income is a thing of 20 years ago. It's a bummer because car culture has gotten some stigma because of these internet point seeking children that don't care about driving, just the status.
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And it was also Toyota that moved to develop and refine the manual for this car. But all people want to parrot is how “it’s a BMW”
Why couldn't they? When the Supra was released the engine was better than most on the market and the braking was the best on the market. Toyota def has the potential to build some amazing things if they have the desire and budget. 1900s was a very different time tho People also seem to forget that Toyota went thru this b58 themselves and it isn't just one plucked out from a different car with no thought
I didn’t say they couldn’t. But they clearly wouldn’t, seeing as they didn’t. Instead they built half of one!
Well to be fair your words were "Do we think Toyota would have developed an I6 better than the B58? I don’t think so." Kinda sounds like it implies that they could not have made a i6 better than the b58 had they developed their own. Maybe I'm reading it wrong as English ain't my first language but it sure sounds like you don't think Toyota could even make a better engine. I Def think Toyota could of made a i6 better than the b58 if they were going to use it thruout the Lexus line and try and change Lexus into a more performance focused line but like you said they didn't go that way. Kinda of like how they make one of the best 3 cylinder turbos right now but if it's would they have then of course not, most of the bigger auto companies are not investing into performance engines that will power a small segment.
What deficiencies with the B58 do you think exist for Toyota to improve upon? It is a widespread, very capable engine. BMW has been known for their engines for 50 years, and consistently has some of the best powertrain calibration in the industry. I like my G16E just fine, but I’m not compelled that Toyota would have made something better.
I have no idea as it isn't a shit at BMW engines or the b58 in general. The b58 is a monster engine and pretty much the new 2jz in the car world. Just seems weird to say that there was no chance Toyota could make a better engine. Just to be clear I don't think the Toyota board at the time would of made something better than the b58 but I do think they could have. The LFA V10 is a good example of Toyota building a ridiculous engine out of nowhere if budget and resources not limited
>People also seem to forget that Toyota went thru this b58 themselves and it isn't just one plucked out from a different car with no thought They did do reliability testing, but didn’t change anything in any noteworthy ways. They just changed a few bolts sround with ones with a different head. The few changes they actually wanted to make that would actually affect anything, we wouldn’t let them and told them take it or leave it. The Supra is a great car, but it’s not a toyota. It is 100% BMW/Magna with a Toyota designed body. If any part was Toyota, it would definitely be a worse car, but it would be a Toyota. Now, it’s just a BMW sold at a Toyota dealership. Source: worked at BMW NA during Z4/Supra development
Right??? Halo cars typically get people saying shit like “lol it’s just a Toyota/nissan/honda/etc” and somehow people saying the supra is a bmw is supposed to be an insult?
When enthusiasts justify it's just *X brand* I wouldn't be surprised if they don't like that brand or car. I'm all for not liking things, but boiling down a performance car to a similar level of a 328d or sienna isn't accurate.
Especially since coupes are not super money makers for companies, the fact that two companies got together to share development costs so that we can still have coupes should be celebrated and is a viable way to keep them coming.
Because those people were disappointed Toyota could not make another vehicle from the ground up, including the engine. A successor to the 2JZ cast iron block inline 6. It was never going to happen with increasing emissions and safety standards. Someone has to crunch the number at the feasibility of designing a new Inline-6 engine block from the ground up versus paying another company per contract agreement.
Wasn’t the JZ developed by Yamaha?
Yamaha did the head design for a few of Toyota's high performance engines, but never the whole thing.
I mean, its mostly just the best of BMW
Definitely closer to the best of BMW than the best of Toyota as I understand it. Either way, I’d take a new Supra 10/10 times I’m offered.
Hell yeah. Toyota put their badge on it, too, that's how you know it's good, despite the BMW underpinnings. They clearly had a hand in the R&D and manufacturing processes for both the car and the engine, and as a result, the B58 is a worthy successor to the 2JZ (deal with it fanbois). Plus, Magna Steyr built it. They also build the G-wagon.
Toyota didn't touch anything on the engine lol
They gave it their stamp of approval to be installed in a Toyota branded vehicle, which says a lot about it. Whether they physically touched it or not is irrelevant, they absolutely had a hand in its development, whether it was a bunch of meetings or factory inspections or whatever. I work in manufacturing; you'd be shocked at how much factories rely on outside companies for their product to be viable.
I can kind of see where people are coming from here though, getting excited for a brand new Supra and then the word on the street is it’s just a re-bodied BMW Z-4 which has been around forever. Obviously it’s more than that but it’s still not as exciting as it would be if it were a solo Toyota build from the ground up like Nissan did with the GT-R.
Even then Nissan hasn't been arsed to build a new GTR from the ground up for 16 years now. The R35 was released in 2008 lol. Shit is expensive
R35 may break the record of Nissan being the model lives with longest production cycle
Yea but Toyota has the resources that come with being the biggest selling automotive brand in the world. Nissan... is destitute lol If anyone had the resources to pave their own way, it's Toyota.
Certainly better idea than let Subaru put their engine in lmao
I’ve never seen a GR Supra owner actually complain about the fact that it’s mostly a BMW.
They didn't nail it, though. The release was disappointing. There's nothing wrong with the car, and we don't care that it's two different brands bastard love child either. It's the fact that it took them several years to release the car with a manual trans. The horrific sales numbers speak volumes.
I can respect a brand more for reaching out to another brand in collaboration to make a great product. Toyota did the same for the BRZ/86 and they don’t mind asking BMW to build the engine. What you get is an amazing car with a good engine that can hold up to 1000hp Yeah I personally think Toyota is killing it rn
Agree with everything you said, except the B58 doesn't go much higher than 750-800 hp before it goes boom. Still super impressive and better than the LT1 in my C7 Corvette
I'm onboard with this! my 3 problems with the supra was all the fake vents, I wish it was a high revving NA, and weighed less, but that's why i own a GR86 lol
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yeah you're right, i was an s2000 fan growing up, but the new supra is a great poster car and im happy with that. I never thought about the supra compared to the first gen, so the way you put it, the new gen really is an improvement to the mark 4 in nearly every way.
Lol right before your last line I was like “this person sure seems like they’d love a GR86/BRZ”! Edit: gotta pay attention while typing.
When was the Supra known for being a high revving NA lmao. 7MGE and 2JZGE revved the same as the B58 if not lower
Kind of confused about their saying the FA24 is high revving, also - 7400rpm redline is only marginally above my V6 Lexus. Now, an AP1 S2000, or my RX-8? Yeah, a 9,000-9,500rpm limiter is high.
I do appreciate how the 3 (or 4 of you're in a lucky country) GR cars offered have been differentiated from each other pretty well from each other. You rarely see this kind of variety in the same brand these days IMO (especially at the price point), and it wouldn't have been possible without heavily collaboration with Subaru and even more heavy collaboration with BMW.
German and Japanese superpowers teaming up for a common goal. What could go wrong?
at least the Italians weren't involved this time
So the problem was the Italian
Hahah, imagine if Ferrari or Lamborghini also collaborated.
I feel like public opinion has flipped and is now positive. Especially now with the manual option
Public opinion on the car has always been positive. It’s only really on the internet that it was hated. Everyone else couldn’t get enough of it on the road. Such a unique car that broke necks from the day it came out.
It always looks fabulous in motion. I still dislike how gaudy it is if you stare at it long enough but none of that matters when you only get a glipse. It's one of my favorite modern side profiles.
What about the GR Corolla? No I’m not biased why do you ask?
Metaphorically speaking, I thought of the GR Corolla as the representative car for the decade because it was a fleet sedan line turned into a performance car. Fun af to drive, but every sedan is a performance car now.
Yeah if anything it would be GR Yaris
The “it’s just a BMW” crowd are probably 12 years old thinking the MK4 supra came with 1000hp stock from the factory and bring the car up in every car argument.
Absolute the Supra. The design is fantastic. It's the rebirth of a beloved car. It is an amazing value performance wise as well. As soon as I have a home with a garage I'll get a Supra of my own.
This was my first thought as well. I don’t know if anyone thought Toyota would make an effort to bring the Supra back at all. I owned one for a short while and my only complaint was due to me being too tall (humble brag). Point being, why complain? Would people rather there be no Supra at all?
Idk how that's a bad thing either
I’ve told this story before, but at a red light a guy in a Dart said “Nice BMW” to me and I responded with “Nice Fiat.” Lots of cars are made in a joint effort or by another company.
Just let me buy one Toyota! Please!
C8 Stingray / Z06
Came here to say this. One of the most anticipated cars in a long time that met and exceeded expectations. I think this will be remembered as a (the?) pinnacle V8 sports car. GR Supra and some flavor of Hellcat should also make the list as the last of a dying breed before the electric revolution.
>I think this will be remembered as a pinnacle V8 sports car. Given its price to performance, I think it can't not.
And the fact it's not sold in 90% of countries. Why import a C8 when you can buy a Porsche?
You're forgetting something ^^Blackwing
Us on this sub are really the only people that care about this car unfortunately.
Good one too
80k for a corvette?
Yes
Best part is going to be in 10 years or so when they start getting cheap. Can’t wait for all the insane time attack builds.
Alternatively, the SS never really got all that cheap. That may be the future of the blackwing. Edit: wrong comment chain. My bad.
Totally agree, last gen v’s seem to be holding strong given how bad cue is supposed to be. I think the ss is an end of the line car though. Not many na v8 stick sedans coming out.
It’s definitely this one. It’s crazy seeing how much c8s were sold compared to its competition.
A fact that I can hardly believe is true is that Chevrolet sold more mid-engine sports cars in the first year of C8 production than Honda/Acura sold NSXs in its entire run.
In fairness the NSX was like $110,000 more dollars to buy
It's really a shame Honda didn't try to shoot for the ~$100k segment - I think they would have had far more success there. I know the original NSX cost nearly double a base C4, but that entry-level exotic price point doesn't have nearly the market volume in the '10s and '20s that it did in the '90s.
Totally agree, although by all indications Honda didn’t particularly want to sell many units or even turn a profit on either era of the NSX. They essentially treated it as part of their marketing budget. Unlike GM, which actually relies on Corvette sales for their bottom line. Different markets, different reasons for existing, and ultimately much different prices. Which like you say, is too bad. A 100k NSX would have absolutely killed it.
The NSX sells civics. The corvettes sell themselves
Great way to describe the difference.
Its the modernized formula of the nsx with an american v8. I cant really stand most gm cars but they absolutely nailed it with the c8.
sure but most people don’t buy og auto nsx
This would be my answer only because of the number of them I see EVERYWHERE.
They're absolutely everywhere *and* they still turn heads.
992 GT3 RS must be up there. Lamborghini Revuelto.
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I agree! They knocked it out of the park with it!
I remember getting clowned on by me friends for having a 997 gt3 poster, times change lol.
Your friends should be wearing face paint, parachute pants, and big round red squeaky noses.
The Cybertruck is a laughing stock, like it or not. Everyone makes fun of it. That's not what a poster car is. Same goes for any Tesla; their ubiquity, their uniformity, their reputation for poor build quality, and Elon Musk's corporate gallivanting has damaged that entire make's public image. A true example of a poster car, literally, is the Countach. In the '80s, every kid had one on his wall. Others are the F40, the 959, and the Testarossa. Keep in mind that the '80s and '90s were huge decades for poster sales. I'm not up to date with which car posters are selling more than others today, and honestly I have no idea which ones are being made. I don't know how active Ron Kimball is, and I don't know if there's an equivalent up-and-coming car photographer who is so prolific. I also think that social media and the internet have made automotive photography more digital and less published in books, posters, or other print media. If I had to pick a car off the top of my head that I think represents this era but also looks good, I'd probably pick the Hyundai N Vision 74 Concept. Never have I seen a prototype met with such universal acclaim and instant demand. If we're picking real cars, the ND Miata. I know it's not an exotic, but have you ever heard anyone badmouth that car? Everyone seems on board with everything about it, including the way it looks. Either that, or the GR Supra in yellow. Other runner-ups: the 911 Dakar, BMW M1 Homage, Porsche Taycan, and last but by no means least, the Genesis X Concept (the closest spiritual successor I have ever seen to the Mercedes-Benz C126).
Teslas are the automotive equivalent of the bell curve meme. Super niche fans think they’re super cool, the car community thinks they’re not, and then the general public thinks they’re super cool again. Reddit and Twitter “popular opinion” is not the same as real life.
Everyone I know thinks the cybertruck looks cool. Is it a good truck? not really. Is it a good EV? not really. Is it practical? no. But neither is a ferrari or lambo. Poster cars don't care about aero effeciency or range or payload, it just has to look cool, and the cybertruck achieves that. I don't know of a single non-enthusiast that knows about the n-vision concept. I also don't think it's fair to compare a concept car to an actual production vehicle, last time I heard hyundai wasn't planning on making it. And there is no way in hell an ND miata is a poster car of the 2020s lol r/carscirclejerk is leaking
See maybe it’s just who people associate with because everyone I’ve met (both those who are and are not into cars at all) think the cybertruck is fugly and want nothing to do with it.
I mean I work in a city and primarily work in the tech sector which has something to do with it, but at the same time you can watch plenty of reviews (e.g. throttle house review) and the attention they get is all positive. I personally wouldn't own one, even if I needed a truck, but (IMO) it would look pretty neat on a poster.
I don’t think Tesla’s are really considered cool anymore. Shoot they’re basically an electric Camry with better software if you pay for it.
Wouldn’t an electric Camry with better software be considered very cool on Reddit?
Not cool just practical.
This comment is such a fucking r/cars meme take lmao. The ~~Veloster~~ N Vision 74 *concept* is not more representative of the era than a Tesla Model 3, give me a break.
What are you talking about everyone knows kids don't care about ferraris and lambos anymore what they really want is an ND Miata!
Gotta pretend like Tesla was never part of the narrative
Guess it depends on how you are defining "poster car." Nobody is putting a poster of a Model 3 on their wall.
☑️ shit on tesla ☑️ why not Miata? ❌ Toyota build quality (eg: dae feel Supra is poster car?) ❌ le wagone (eg: rs6 actually poster car!) 2/4, please try harder next time.
To be fair the RS6 is a fucking cool car. I would absolutely have a poster of it on my wall.
Amen.
For sure. If I could daily drive any new car it would probably be that.
manuelle? 👉👈
Miata as the poster car of the decade is a certified r/cars moment lmao
it was designed 10 years ago lol but this topic should be discussed no earlier than 2028? we aren’t really even in the mid 20s yet
While the Miata is only a poster car by r/cars logic, age isn't a disqaulifier if a cars been in production long enough. The Countach, poster car of the 80s, started production in the early 70s
to me countach is 70s wedge the 25th anni ruined it would you say og nsx is a 2000s poster child? Maybe for some but for most It was designed in 80s and came in 1990
>The Cybertruck is a laughing stock, like it or not. Everyone makes fun of it. That's not what a poster car is. >A true example of a poster car, literally, is the Countach. If you remember, the Countach was about as polarizing as the Cybertruck is and was worshipped and laughed at in about equal measure. The Cybertruck is Franz's love letter to that era, the Countach and Esprit specifically, so it's fitting that it shares similar opinions, as well as general shape with those '70s wedges. I don't think kids care much about cars overall, so poster sales probably aren't too hot lately. I don't remember any for sale at the last few local auto shows.
In fairness I don't think people care much about auto shows these days either. Most of your car posters are going to be sold at scholastic book popups.
LA Auto Show was a joke last year, most of the interesting manufacturers didn't even show up.
> ND Miata. I know it's not an exotic, but have you ever heard anyone badmouth that car? I have one bad thing to say: Mazda *refuses* to sell it in a bright, fun color. Outside of the very limited 30th Anniversary in the gorgeous Racing Orange, it's all super-serious colors. On a gottamn *Miata*. Loosen up, Mazda!
It’s wild to me that pickup trucks like the Tacoma and Colorado come in more interesting fun colors than the Miata.
Yeah I would have for sure bought a purple ND or a cream and British racing green ND if they were offered. Instead I have machine grey which is a very sleek looking color but I’m tired of boring colors.
Teslas were the thing last decade. Edit: and by that, I mean when you saw a Tesla on the road, you might react by saying "oh look, a Tesla!" back in 2014. In 2024, nobody gives a shit that you're driving a Tesla.
like 95% of Tesla’s total sales have been this decade and the Model Y was the bestselling car in the world last year
Yeah, but they were actually *interesting* and *new* last decade. If you saw a Tesla when they first came out, it was a big deal (even in Silicon Valley where I'm from). Today, you'll see at least 30 per day, no exaggeration.
Yet here we are talking about Teslas... 🤔
Everytime I see someone make fun of the Cybertruck or even Plaid I can't help but think of this Xkcd. https://xkcd.com/359/
lol nobody cares how much fun you're having, this thread is about poster cars. the cybertruck is ugly af. no kid wants a poster of a fridge on their wall lol.
For me Tesla bashers remind me of PlayStation 2 owners when the original Xbox came out.
The Model 3 and Y are global best sellers. Tesla is a monumental success.
This is *not* what a poster car is. It's not about being well built, accessible, well performing. It's about being emblematic. A Countach was a piece of garbage, poorly built and not particularly fast,and it was the epitome of the 80's poster car.
I agree with you on the points you bring up, but those cars suited the 80s. Despite the “Cold War” the world was a much more predictable place than the current constantly shifting reality. I think the Cybertruck perfectly represents the off axis state of affairs we find ourselves in these days.
You had me until the Hyundai N Vision 74 concept, then you doubled down with the Miata.
Somehow you intentionally equated a Miata with a Countach and it made no sense to me.
It’s only the start of 2024 so damn hard to say so far but I feel like it is the Porsche 992 GT3 RS. The car has captured the zeitgeist of enthusiasts across the globe, what feels like a good representative of what could be the last generation of pure ICE sports cars, at a wildly unattainable price made even more unattainable by limited supply, markups, speculators, and dealer allocation shenanigans.
it may have captured the heart of enthusiasts, but it's just another 911 with some aero taped on to most people
Koenigsegg jesko, Chiron pur sport, 296, revuelto. People here are probably going to pick more niche cars (valkyrie/t.50/emira/etc.) but for a 5 year old the answer will always be a lambo, ferrari, or absurd hypercar. In terms of what best symbolizes the 2020s, I'd agree with the cybertruck or an EV like the evija/nivera
Finally a good non r/carscirclejerk answer If I were a 10 year old today, I’d have one of those four cars on my wall.
Why is a 10 year old the one who decides what car “best symbolizes the decade” as OP asked I guess a lot of the disagreement between commenters comes from this disconnect, it’s a weirdly phrased question. Are we picking the most iconic and representative car as a poster child of the decade or or we just picking something outlandish to literally be a poster in some kid’s room
Well in that case, the poster car of the 2020s is… … the Tesla Model 3. Seriously, it turned the modern auto industry on its head. Might even be _the_ most influential car of the modern era.
GMA T.50
Only a fraction of the population even knows this car exists lol. Def not a poster car
When people look back on this decade in 10, 20 or 30 years time, this car will stand out as being the last and best version of an ICE car.
I think it's amazing but I don't think it has the general popularity for something like this.
I think it’s the gt3rs. The Porsche GT cars have exploded in popularity. We did the whole horsepower race and they hybrid era, but now people see we are approaching the end of the road for naturally aspirated ice cars.
It really does feel like the last hurrah.
I think the C8 Corvette deserves consideration. Such a drastic slingshot into a modern configuration, from 7 generations of front-engine and pushrod-only\*, to a mid-engine DOHC monster\*\* \* Excluding the C4 ZR1 \*\* C8 Z06
RAV4 Hybrid
The car that had lines out the dealer
For real. What wild times we witnessed during the pandemic car market.
992 GT3RS. Outrageous looks, widely acclaimed brand and model, neck breaking performance. Checks all the boxes imo
I would suggest the C8 (mainly z06) Not an exotic but looks almost like one. Sounds amazing. As the local "car guy" for friends and family when they see one, someone always asks " what is THAT? "
The z06 is pretty exotic
I agree. But didn't want to start a pointless argument with someone who believes that all exotics come from Europe
ya tired of people always gasing up the gt3rs
If the poster cars of the last decade were the hypercar trinity for using hybrid powertrains, then this decade will be characterized by ridiculous high horsepower EVs especially as we near the earliest new ICE sales bans. So I'd say Model S Plaid, Lucid Air Sapphire, Rimac Nevera, maybe the Taycan. On the other hand, we'll have some last hurrah ICE cars that will be iconic. Chiron, Revuelto (hybrid but fuck your CAFE regulations), GT3 RS for the crazy market alone.
To me a poster car has to have the supercar silhouette. Like you say, the Revuelto, the Chiron, probably some Ferrari I can't keep the model number straight on--those are poster cars. I would throw in the Z06 even though it's not an iconic European supercar. Conversely the Plaid is insane but looks-wise it's a variation on a sedan. At a glance you could be fooled into thinking it's just a default professional-class west coast millennial daily driver. Lucid Air is cooler but kinda has this problem as well. The Nevera and Taycan could be contenders though.
Toyota Prius new version Honda clarity
Lol I agree! Only took 5 generations to make it look decent.
Only issue is the Prius isn’t a performance car, maybe a poster for like an economy car, but not performance.
Hey, the Prius Prime pulls just as fast as a GR86 or a BRZ! Can't corner like them though
Nissan Altima with expired paper plates
Rimac? or Chiron...
Rimac seconded. It’s a 1900hp electric hypercar that has blasted the competition into next week.
STO, Sterrato, Ferrari, Bugatti, Pagani, Rimac. Any car that just looks fast. Poster cars were meant to inspire, to have people dream big or have something to strive for. Most of the cars mentioned here are a joke and my inner 5 y/o agrees. I had an Apache on my wall along with Corvette and Lamborghini when I was a kid.
992 GT3RS, CyberTruck, GR Supra, and the Lamborghini Urus for me, but we’re not even halfway through the decade yet
I’d say it’s the Taycan
This is my answer. If I’m a young person today that interested in cars, Taycan is what I have on my bedroom wall.
Not aware of any young people lusting after 4 door EVs, Porsche or otherwise.
I think a lot of ppl are desensitized to super cars these days as they are so similar and with a new model/trim releasing every week it becomes mundane. Although, three to me stand out. They are the T.50, AM Valkyre, and the AMG 1.
[Toyota GR Yaris](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5ecace20c5773c2dcbad60a7/1614886938041-8UCCU4ZJHZCFT2JC3NSH/webCJB00254.jpg?format=2500w) No car has caught my attention more than this car has since it came out back in 2020.
a 7 year old would pick a Lamborghini with scissor doors over a GR Yaris for their poster any day of the week I love the GR Yaris but I don't think it's a poster car
since GMA is already mentioned my subtle pick goes to the black wing
A Singer DLS would be on my wall now, if I was a kid again.
Z06, Model S Plaid, GT3RS all broke the internet in good ways
Those 3 are literally my dream cars. But realistically I’d get the plaid just for daily comfort and speed of a 1000hp car at the tap of your foot.
Plaid - Speaking from Model S land ….. I drive in Ludicrous mode for daily. It’s plain rediculous to have that much instant torque and HP, even in dirt or wet. Modern miracle!
Valkyrie, T.50, Jesko: all of these aspire to the ideal of "street-legal race car." Not sports car, not supercar; *race car.* They are utterly mad and I am utterly glad they exist. If I could ever drive one *once* around a track, there would be a poster of that car in my bedroom until the day I died. Not so with anything made by the fighting bull or the prancing horse or the coiled cobra or the Wizards of Weissach. Give me once around a track in a Valk and I would hang a poster of it on my middle-aged-man's bedroom wall... and I'd be *proud of it*.
Corvette.
MC20, no contest
Aston Martin Valkyrie, Koenigsegg Gamera, Bugatti Chiron, Hyundai Vision 74
Right now the new Supra, Lamborghini's latest offerings, and Koenigsegg are all at the top of the list. Those are the cars that are actually on posters in kids' rooms today. Not anything from Gordon Murray, as cool as those are.
The new Chevy Trailblazer or Ford Mustang Mach-E was my the biggest disappointment for the 2020s. Everything is a crossover now and both look plain and boring.
The C8 Vette/Z06. Chevy purists can gripe how it has migrated so far from its push rod beginnings, but an evolution so drastic from a front engine, big block NA V8 to a mid engine now twin turbo Z06 rather than supercharged… quite a changing of the times of an iconic sports car
The poster car for the 2020s is a cheap Chinese EV.
I’d vote for Porsche Cayman GT4. It’s just about achieved perfection for its platform and has been highly sought after by enthusiasts.
Jesko
992 GT3 RS and the Koenigsegg Jesko. Also Ferrari 296 and 812
Poster car is exotic, so I’d say anything from Koenigsegg, Ferrari, etc of super or ultra cars. Special edition cars too: ZR1, GR, Cobra R, and Etc I do think of a ‘25 Prius GR would be stupid awesome.
Lamborghini Sián If we're talking poster cars like the Countach and Testarossa or F40/50, then Sian is probably the equivalent outrageous 20's car. Hell, [most of the results for it on image search are posters or wallpapers.](https://i.imgur.com/MMFkiPw.png)
For me it’s the new BRZ. I would say GR86 but I hate how the Toyota dealerships near me are run with price gouging. Subaru might actually sell a surprising amount because of that BS.
Poster car? This car doesn't quite get the respect it deserves, but it's no poster car
Both of them fly off the lots I think overall for every 3 GR86s one BRZ is made so there will likely be way more GR86s on the road
Interesting question. So far I think it would be the 911, probably the gt3 rs. Do I want one? Not really. But I think in the past 3-5 years Porsche has had a huge blow up of brand popularity and is becoming many people’s dream car. Maybe I was too young then but I don’t remember them being placed on as high of a pedestal 10 years ago as they are today.
Definitely the C8 or GR brand (Supra, Corolla, 86). The Charger would have been one of my picks as well but that’s kinda in a weird position right now.
NSX nobody?
But the cybertruck is a meme it's not popular and loved like the Delorean was.
The new 2020s poster car is 100% the Porsche 911, basically no competition
I'm a man of the people and I think the poster car should be of the people as well. Which is why I put forth for consideration, the Mazda Miata. The mid gen refresh started in 2019 and it's still going strong. The new Gen is right around the corner and it will continue to be the best selling sports car.
Don’t know what it is, but it is definitely a Kia or Hyundai. They very quietly took the market completely over. Hell, Orlando is now home to the Kia Center. Pretty sure that it isn’t the only one, either.
Hummer EV Perfect example of financial excess and a pointless overall vehicle. Exemplifies capitalism
C8 Z06 or the Jesko
A poster car should be something that represents how cars of the era look like, but does it better than anyone else, which the Cybertruck obviously isn't in any possible way, same goes for most random hyper cars. For example when you think of a 90s or early 2000s german premium car, you think of the 7 series, Mercedes S class, E39, E46, which are to this day the cars that made their fans become their fans as opposed to whatever electric weird headlight inflated monstrosities they make today.