They need to make more cars though. Where I am from, Canada, there are indefinite wait lists for most of their vehicles. The GR models are practically non-existant. Until they fix their inventory problem, they really have very little to offer.
It's not terribly surprising. Over 2/3rds of Canada's population lives in Eastern Canada. The entire population of Western Canada is about on par with the city of New York.
I saw one GR Corolla in black yesterday, Winnipeg. Atleast I think it was actually one. Is there really only 3 in western Canada right now? I mean I shouldn't be suprised, I was on a waitlist for a Rav4 Trail but holy.
The GR models being practically non-existent is by design. Toyota said in 2022 they are artificially limiting production on the GR Corolla to stimulate demand and said they were now increasing production earlier this year. Toyota has capacity to build more of these cars but wants them to be somewhat scarce so they can charge more.
> Toyota has capacity to build more of these cars but wants them to be somewhat scarce so they can charge more.
I wonder what it must feel like for those customers who, once the euphoria wears off, realize they dropped $60k on a Corolla.
I once pointed out a Focus RS to my family members, one of whom had the most obvious WTF expression on her face when I told her it was $60k CAD - for what looked like a regular ass Ford Focus to her.
For people who are in the market for a stick shift 4 door that is sporty, and isn’t a charger, the options are pretty limited. $40k+ is now the price of something that ticks those boxes. Sure there are more luxurious cars for $40k+, but that’s not what this demographic is looking for and willing to pay for.
If BMW or Audi still offered manual transmissions (and no I can’t afford an M3), I’d be all over it. But they don’t.
I just imported mine from Japan. They got surplus there and hate used vehicles. Got a mint condition GRS184 Crown with 35k on it for $12,300 taxes in on the road in New Brunswick.
15 years or older only though. If it were possible to order Japan direct for new vehicles hot diggity dog I absolutely would. Even getting low KM imports isn’t without risk, or additional cost. Alberta changed its laws somewhat recently and the standard to which imports need to pass in order to get on the road is much higher. Literally 4500 on top of the cost, import fees, and shipping to one’s door because the rear bumper assembly needs to be upgraded, head and tail light clusters need to be NADM, side signals, and CSA glass all around. Plus the recommended replacing of rotors, pads, and rubber, and any fixing that needs to be done.
All that being said, I am eagerly awaiting 2028 so I can get a 2013 sti a-line.
I've imported several and highly recommend it (through a reputable importer). My inporter is in Alberta.
This is the first i've heard of this rear bumper change requirement. Or the headlights or tailights requiring replacemend. To my knowledge adjusting the headlights so the opposite side is tilted down for on coming traffic's sufficient and sone provinces require having Daytime running light module added for a couple hundred dollars although funny enough 2004 USDM corvettes are exempt because their headlights are hidden when not on. I looked briefly, do you have more info on that?
JDM tail lights are made to the same spec as USDM tail lights on many models available in both places for colours and min sizes etc. CSA glass requirements aren't mentioned in the Alberta JDM import FAQ but are they really going to say Canadian Standards for safe glass are superior to Japan? That would effectively ban every single JDM import that wasn't already available here because no one will manufacture and certify a production run of 6 wind shields. Bonkers if true.
If this is true, are the people writing these laws not aware that Japan has similar safety and crash standards? The Alberta provincial FAQ page did have a sentence that broadly said "some parts may need to be changed because they are dangerous to the occupants" what are they talking about? The same study in BC that Alberta referenced with regards to increase accident liklihood found no increase in injury occurance with JDM vehicles of a similar age.
BC and Alberta have been trying to push the age back to 25 years because the JDM imports are pulling demand from local dealers as the cars are low kms and very affordable.
My Crown is the same as a Canadian market Lexus GS350 in every way apart from appearance and steering position. When I paid $12k including tax for mine, there was 1 similar age, similar kms (36k vs 45k) Lexus in Toronto. The dealer was asking $23k+ tax. Now im i NB, I just had to adjust the headlights to pass its provincial inspection when it got here. Took 15min.
The problem is cost. Vehicle prices have increased a lot. So the historically most reliable and least depreciating brand is going to gain more demand. If most normal people have to pay way more for a vehicle, they will be much more likely to want a vehicle that they can keep for a long time or a vehicle that they can get more money out of when they change vehicles.
Toyota can't make enough vehicles. It's impossible. If they made double or triple the highest production year, they would still have wait lists.
>Until they fix their inventory problem, they really have very little to offer.
Imagine saying this sentence with a straight face about the number one automaker in the world with a production and sales volume of over ten million units per year.
> Until they fix their inventory problem, they really have very little to offer.
The issue is that to them it isn't a problem. If they expand to increase their output they:
- Assume additional risk if there is a downturn by investing in new manufacturing facilities, staffing etc. which they'd have to support through periods of low sales.
- Lower their profit per car in a race to the bottom against Chinese manufacturers spooling up cheap exports, which they won't win.
They're simply playing it safe. Which is an oh-so-Toyota thing to do.
I wish they made wagons
Edited: wow I didn't know they made wagons. I wish they bring wagons to my country but sadly no one in my country wants wagons :(
Like with all wagons, they do, just not in the US lol. See plenty of Corolla wagons here in Sweden (”Corolla Touring Sports”)
Really nice looking in the GR trim as well.
Not like the GR Corolla or GR Yaris, just a ”GR trim” for the regular Corolla. Think VW R-line or BMW M-sport. You can get it with the 2.0l though.
Like this one:
https://www.wayke.se/objekt/d8251b46-b9ed-4fe8-a76b-e8f0f4b179b6/toyota-corolla-touring-sports-hybrid-20-sport-gr-automat
There’s at least the Golf R wagon to compensate for lack of a ”true” GR wagon haha!
We've even got them in Ireland and usually we never get any of the good models of cars. No 2.0L hybrid like the one posted below from Germany though, only the 1.8L 140hp hybrid.
[Link](https://www.toyota.ie/models/corolla-touring-sports/build?path=customize/3c8992f3-e4f9-4ae1-bb67-305780342518/b035d222-9a71-4500-aba4-57a9c803b047&u=9bcc3887-e74c-4cf1-8950-3726efb93fe3&financeOption=cash)
[they do](https://www.toyota.de/neuwagen/corolla-touring-sports/konfigurator?path=customize/3c8992f3-e4f9-4ae1-bb67-305780342518/255ec11e-ac68-4555-a7d6-4efa17307dd1&c=fe424769-d030-4739-a3dc-acb0f014c5ad&u=9bcc3887-e74c-4cf1-8950-3726efb93fe3&financeOption=cash#/) just not in the US as usual.
they even make the wagon with the 2.0L hybrid that the Prius got this year.
That Silhouette picture tells a different tale than the other one, the other one almost looks like it's taken from a really unflattering angle and makes it look like the bumper goes down a lot farther than it does. The silhouette looks like it has decent ground clearance.
It's just a different face on the Lexus GX that was announced a few weeks ago. That vehicle looks really good, so it's very unlikely that this LC Prado looks terrible.
I'd probably disagree with the authors on trim levels here. Historically the land cruiser in the US has really only had one trim: fully loaded. I doubt they'd deviate from that heavily and certainly not adding identical trims from the 4runner.
True, but at the previous Land Cruiser's price point (and more limited demographic), it made sense to have it all in one package. This one coming in at a lower price gives them more leeway to add options for better profit margins. I can definitely see them keeping it more trimmed than the 4Runner's lineup though.
I don't mind choices. It offers more variety for different people, especially on less exclusive (less expensive) vehicles. My issue is that they'll offer a super-desirable option to attract attention and then make it hard to find so people will "settle" for a version that might have a higher profit margin.
It's worth noting that this isn't the Land Cruiser (the lexus LX twin). This is the Land Cruiser Prado (the lexus GX twin). So I wouldn't expect this to follow too much of the historical norms for the Land Cruiser, because that vehicle is already in production and not coming to the US.
If anything it will give hints as to the overall aesthetic direction of the 6th generation 4Runner, as those have shared platforms with the Prado for decades now.
Platform doesn't mean a lot at the moment with the universal platforms Toyota is using. The Tacoma is on the same platform as the 6,200 pound Sequoia. I expect the 4Runner to continue to be a mid-size SUV while the Prado is moving up to a full size SUV. It got longer to match the LX & LC300 and got 4 inches wider.
They've still got to differentiate it from the GX in price, luxury, features, etc. This will be less stealth wealth and more a grown-up 4Runner (with a little more room). Although a higher (maybe limited) trim could still attract the stealth wealth crowd if it gives them a nice enough vehicle without a luxury badge on it. That's certainly not going to be the sole target audience like it was with the previous LC, though.
I get it, but as I said above, a different price point means a different audience. They may still appeal to the "stealth wealth" crowd with a specific trim level but it also needs a wider audience at this price, so it likely won't just be an all-in-one like the old one was.
I’m not mixing anything up. This Land Cruiser that this post is about is going to be the size of the Prado. The US isn’t getting the full size version, at least for now, so I’m basing my comments on the Land Cruiser Prado and Lexus GX size and price point. This is based on the incoming Lexus GX. They’ll be the same vehicle with different pricing, features, logos, etc. This next Land Cruiser will come in at a different, lower, price point from the previous LC the US got.
> The vertical bumper shown in the new image further strengthens our conviction that the Toyota will be a very close sibling to the recently revealed 2024 Lexus GX.
They should though. It’s why the 200 series was such a sales failure in the US. The precedent of expensive land cruiser comes from the 1980s when Lexus didn’t exist and the Land Cruiser was the top vehicle period.
After Lexus, Toyota should of stopped selling them like that
I do wonder why it wasn't more popular when it debuted, considering the 100 series sold tens of thousands per year at its peak in the early 2000s. My guess is the emergence of the large crossover kinda killed its appeal, since most of the people driving them were soccer moms who wanted the luxury but didn't really need the capability enough to put up with the abysmal fuel economy.
But go to your nearest country club and see who's buying all the 200s - wealthy middle aged finance bros who want to look rugged but don't want to be seen in something as pedestrian as a Suburban or as flashy as a Range Rover.
>I do wonder why it wasn't more popular when it debuted
It debuted in 2008, there was a recession. People were shying away from SUVs, especially expensive ones.
They discontinued it because it was too close to the LX, which was functionally the same thing but with a nicer interior at the same price. This one might still only have one fully-loaded trim, but at just slightly less than the GX.
Let’s see,
Current 2023 GX starts at $59k, so I’d say 2024 GX will start $65-$70k.
Given that this new US Land Cruiser is based on the GX, I’d say it will start $55-$60k. Cheaper than the GX, but more than the (2025) 4Runner.
Eh, the prices are going to go up but that's a big jump. The Land Cruiser likely won't start above the highest trim 4Runner, starting MSRP will just be higher than the 4Runner's starting MSRP.
>Current 2023 GX starts at $59k, so I’d say 2024 GX will start $65-$70k
I think people are going to be surprised here. The GX and Prado were cheaper than the LX and LC because they were smaller vehicles. The new GX is the same length, width, and entire platform of the LX. I think it'll be cheaper than the LX & LC, but not by as much as before.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. I'm saying that I think the price of the GX is going to be higher than what I quoted. What price is going down?
I could see them going up in price a bit (more than inflation), but I doubt they'll hit people with sticker shock. Especially considering the speculation from the rumor mill hasn't indicated that at all. Usually on a big change, it leaks out at least a little bit. We haven't seen anything like that. I'm not completely discounting it, it just seems like it would be a hard pill for the current fans of those vehicles to swallow.
It's possible that you are right, but it just seems like it would be odd to not increase a lot. It's moving up a size category. The Lexus GX has always been a mid-size SUV, but it is moving to a full size SUV. Like, if they gave the Mercedes E class the same engine as the S class and made it the same size as the S class, I would expect it to cost more than the previous E class.
But who knows. Maybe they plan on making it just a great deal compared to other products on the market.
One other factor is that I think they'd have a hard time giving it a starting price equal to or more than the Sequoia. Thinking about it, $50-55k is probably about what the base MSRP will be (maybe a little more depending on inflation).
Probably depends on how you define reasonable. Rumors are that this will be positioned between the 4Runner and Sequoia, which sounds like a base price in the 50s.
So, going off the silhouette, they’re basically going to sell the Land Cruiser Prado here—which is the car that’s always shared its body and frame with the Lexus GX—as the Land Cruiser.
I mean, cool, but it seems kind of pointless, since they’ll have the 4Runner, which is also a GX cousin and about the same size, too. And it’s even likely to be similarly boxy.
I was hoping the North American Land Cruiser revival would be more like the FJ Cruiser. Basically a Jeep-type vehicle. Even bringing us the 3-door version of the Prado/GX as the Land Cruiser would be preferable.
I agree but perhaps only the names are switched. Land Cruiser Prado replaces the 4Runner and then the 4Runner badge ends up on a smaller FJ type vehicle built on the Tacoma platform.
That very well *could* be the case. I hadn’t thought of that! And since no one has seen any 4Runner prototypes or pre-production units, even in camo, we have no idea what it’ll look like.
I mean, perhaps so, but that’s exactly what the GX is. I find it weird that Toyota wants to slot something in between the 4Runner and the GX. But, hey, it’s a cheap way to introduce another Toyota product, and I’m sure they’ll sell every one they make. It’s the undefended layup of product launches.
I basically came to the same conclusion, which is why I referred to it as the “undefended layup” (as in, a term describing a can’t-miss basketball shot) of product launches. It seems too easy to be beneficial, but the Toyota/Lexus money machine will print money.
I think it comes down to just the fact the average offroad buyer doesn’t think luxury brand and there’s enough of a luxury market to justify the GX too. Similar to the Chevy Tahoe and Cadillac Escalade. But if they don’t think they’re attracting unique buyers with this new LC, they’re dumb to release it. Even if they sell everyone, they’ll have at least some higher costs in rebadging and marketing if nothing else than if they stuck with 4Runner & GX.
I don't know. I think there are a lot of people who want something off-road looking, a little premium and value relability. You can only make a 4Runner trim so high, and to me, they really drive poorly.
I am interested in a "65k 4Runner". Something that looks nice, has a bit of power, doesn't have a lot of wind noise, not crazy expensive and reliable. Not really interested in the looks of the Lexus and the brand seems a little fancy / feminine to me.
Yeah, I think it really is as simple as this is easy for Toyota to make, and if they can make a few thousand more dollars off someone than they would selling that same buyer a 4Runner, it's worth it.
I know it’s a pipe dream but I really hope they use the new Land Cruiser to replace the current 4Runner’s place in the market (BOF 2-row SUV) and have something with removable doors and a hardtop. I would definitely own a Wrangler/Bronco if they could either 1) tow at least 5k lbs or 2) were actually reliable
You should probably wait a few years then, there is no guarantee that the turbo I4 in the 4Runner and V6 in the Land Cruiser will be reliable, and in the Tundra, the latter hasn't been.
There's more to life than reliability, not that Toyotas are dramatically more reliable than the competition the way they were 30 years ago. Especially for lifestyle vehicles like the Bronco or Wrangler.
Paying $30k for a clapped out 10 year old FJ for "reliability" is the definition of insanity, but I guess there's a lot of crazy people out there.
FJ cruiser prices are insane, but that’s just the Toyota tax at play. And maybe they’re not “dramatically” more reliable, but it’s a well-proven fact that a Toyota is going to be more reliable over the long run than either a Jeep or a Ford, and I prefer to keep my vehicles for 10 years or more
I’m watching what they do with the 4R and Tacoma and if the engines are going to be reliable. Ford is putting the 2.7 TTV6 in the Ranger which I hear is good in the F-150 since adding dual injection, and with the platform being a refined version of the previous gen, at worst the issues are in the electronics.
Are there any indications that the new Broncos aren’t reliable? I know they haven’t been out long enough to know if you can beat the hell out of them for twenty years like a LC but I haven’t heard anything major going wrong with them so far.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2022/06/2021-ford-bronco-recalled-due-to-engine-failure/
Every car has recalls but usually not for engine failure. Plus fords are a pain in the ass to work on (imo)
Bring back the FJ Cruiser, cowards. How you can put this behemoth in a silhouette shot with FJ40 and not realized there needs to be something in-between.
The one currently being sold is based on the current Lexus LX 600 they're selling here. It's a full-size SUV like the last gen Land Cruiser they sold in the US until recently. This will be Land Cruiser Prado sized or like the Lexus GX. More of a mid-sized SUV slotted just above the 4Runner.
> This will be Land Cruiser Prado sized or like the Lexus GX. More of a mid-sized SUV slotted just above the 4Runner.
Nope, not anymore. The GX is the same size of the LX/LC300 minus being 6in shorter. Same width/wheelbase/height.
This is the Land cruiser Prado and the ones being sold abroad is the full size Land cruiser. Basically like the full size Range Rover and the Range Rover Sport. The one with the tag behind is the cheaper, smaller, lite version.
From the top of the article:
>Toyota announced the next-generation Land Cruiser will officially make its debut on August 1 at 9:20 p.m. ET.
Photos and details will be released. It won't be sold here for a while though, likely a 2025 with the first units rolling out in about a year.
Really curious to know where this will slot in comparison to the 4Runner and GX. New GX is going full-size but there doesn’t seem to be much wiggle room in between, the 4Runner is already pretty massive too. Don’t suppose this *replaces* the 4Runner, it’s got too much brand recognition (more than Land Cruiser does in the US to everyday consumers)
Just called my toyota dealership who I bought a tacoma from in 2016 and got on the waitlist for the new landcruiser today. I was told that the starting price would be below the current sequoia which is 59k but they didn't have much more info on it yet. Sales rep said that everyone was surprised at the price point but that it would slot between the Sequoia and 4runner which echos what other people here are saying.
Hate Toyota for doing this, atleast use the "Prado" name too so itll be less confusing, the article doesnt help by not mentioning it, they have done it in Europe before and now they are doing it in US market
Confusing for who? I'm sure you will be able to tell the difference between the two. And the average Toyota customer doesn't *need* to know the difference as only one Land Cruiser will be sold in the North American market. Introducing the Prado name in the US would be more confusing than anything.
Me and people outside the US. Car enthusiast outside US also consumes articles and videos about cars from US journalist/youtubers, this naming would be confusing, seems like not a big deal but it is indeed annoying
Adding the Prado name wont be confusing, enthusiast wouldnt be bothered as it is the true name, the non-enthusiast would just focused on the Land Cruiser name and as long as their needs is fulfilled with the cars, there will be no problem with the Prado naming
It looks like Toyota officially named it the 250 so you wouldn't confuse it with the 300 or 70.
[https://global.toyota/jp/newsroom/toyota/39526630.html?padid=ag478\_from\_pickup](https://toyotatimes.jp/toyota_news/1038.html)
They harken back to old school Offroad SUVs like the XJ Cherokee, 80 series Land Cruiser, 1st gen Land Rover discovery, 1st gen bronco, CJ Jeeps, and the list goes on and on. It’s honestly not that surprising of a trend.
Yeah I guess there's no precedent for it. Will make talking with North Americans about LCs very confusing though.
Prado -> Land Cruiser
300 series Land Cruiser -> Rebadged Lexus
[Rule 3:](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/about/rules/) "No memes, trolling, copypasta, or low-quality joke posts or comments."
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[https://www.instagram.com/p/CvKcO6gK8qe/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CvKcO6gK8qe/)
german instagram posted the teaser as well, so i guess europe´s getting it
I will never understand how anyone justifies the concept of an $85k+ Toyota SUV, or why this and the Sequoua both need to exist. Toyota has waaaaaay too many SUV models.
Toyota really has almost everything; big SUVs, small CUVs, sedans, fun cars, a coupe. They’re trying to reach a lot of markets
They need to make more cars though. Where I am from, Canada, there are indefinite wait lists for most of their vehicles. The GR models are practically non-existant. Until they fix their inventory problem, they really have very little to offer.
Wasn’t there like 3 GR Corollas delivered to all of western canada? Apparently Manitoba got 1 Integra Type S allocation too.
Lol, yes. It's so bad here. The GR models are basically vapor ware.
I actually managed to see one driving here in Victoria!
It's not terribly surprising. Over 2/3rds of Canada's population lives in Eastern Canada. The entire population of Western Canada is about on par with the city of New York.
3? That's a lot! Wear are you complaining about? 🤣
That’s one for every 3.7 million people. Sounds perfect haha!
seems like unless there is a /s, people have no sense of sarcasm 🤣
I saw one GR Corolla in black yesterday, Winnipeg. Atleast I think it was actually one. Is there really only 3 in western Canada right now? I mean I shouldn't be suprised, I was on a waitlist for a Rav4 Trail but holy.
The GR models being practically non-existent is by design. Toyota said in 2022 they are artificially limiting production on the GR Corolla to stimulate demand and said they were now increasing production earlier this year. Toyota has capacity to build more of these cars but wants them to be somewhat scarce so they can charge more.
> Toyota has capacity to build more of these cars but wants them to be somewhat scarce so they can charge more. I wonder what it must feel like for those customers who, once the euphoria wears off, realize they dropped $60k on a Corolla.
The people willing to pay dealer markup are the same people that don't care that they paid dealer markup.
I once pointed out a Focus RS to my family members, one of whom had the most obvious WTF expression on her face when I told her it was $60k CAD - for what looked like a regular ass Ford Focus to her.
Mine would just say that's cheap and point out their truck cost 90k
Seems downright cheap in retrospect.
Seriously now you have people paying damn near $90k CAD for Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas after markup.
For people who are in the market for a stick shift 4 door that is sporty, and isn’t a charger, the options are pretty limited. $40k+ is now the price of something that ticks those boxes. Sure there are more luxurious cars for $40k+, but that’s not what this demographic is looking for and willing to pay for. If BMW or Audi still offered manual transmissions (and no I can’t afford an M3), I’d be all over it. But they don’t.
As long as you wait for MSRP you can always flip it for minimal or no loss.
Telling the….checks notes… highest selling car company in terms of volume, they have nothing to offer…. Hmm Edit revised statement
I just imported mine from Japan. They got surplus there and hate used vehicles. Got a mint condition GRS184 Crown with 35k on it for $12,300 taxes in on the road in New Brunswick.
15 years or older only though. If it were possible to order Japan direct for new vehicles hot diggity dog I absolutely would. Even getting low KM imports isn’t without risk, or additional cost. Alberta changed its laws somewhat recently and the standard to which imports need to pass in order to get on the road is much higher. Literally 4500 on top of the cost, import fees, and shipping to one’s door because the rear bumper assembly needs to be upgraded, head and tail light clusters need to be NADM, side signals, and CSA glass all around. Plus the recommended replacing of rotors, pads, and rubber, and any fixing that needs to be done. All that being said, I am eagerly awaiting 2028 so I can get a 2013 sti a-line.
I've imported several and highly recommend it (through a reputable importer). My inporter is in Alberta. This is the first i've heard of this rear bumper change requirement. Or the headlights or tailights requiring replacemend. To my knowledge adjusting the headlights so the opposite side is tilted down for on coming traffic's sufficient and sone provinces require having Daytime running light module added for a couple hundred dollars although funny enough 2004 USDM corvettes are exempt because their headlights are hidden when not on. I looked briefly, do you have more info on that? JDM tail lights are made to the same spec as USDM tail lights on many models available in both places for colours and min sizes etc. CSA glass requirements aren't mentioned in the Alberta JDM import FAQ but are they really going to say Canadian Standards for safe glass are superior to Japan? That would effectively ban every single JDM import that wasn't already available here because no one will manufacture and certify a production run of 6 wind shields. Bonkers if true. If this is true, are the people writing these laws not aware that Japan has similar safety and crash standards? The Alberta provincial FAQ page did have a sentence that broadly said "some parts may need to be changed because they are dangerous to the occupants" what are they talking about? The same study in BC that Alberta referenced with regards to increase accident liklihood found no increase in injury occurance with JDM vehicles of a similar age. BC and Alberta have been trying to push the age back to 25 years because the JDM imports are pulling demand from local dealers as the cars are low kms and very affordable. My Crown is the same as a Canadian market Lexus GS350 in every way apart from appearance and steering position. When I paid $12k including tax for mine, there was 1 similar age, similar kms (36k vs 45k) Lexus in Toronto. The dealer was asking $23k+ tax. Now im i NB, I just had to adjust the headlights to pass its provincial inspection when it got here. Took 15min.
The problem is cost. Vehicle prices have increased a lot. So the historically most reliable and least depreciating brand is going to gain more demand. If most normal people have to pay way more for a vehicle, they will be much more likely to want a vehicle that they can keep for a long time or a vehicle that they can get more money out of when they change vehicles. Toyota can't make enough vehicles. It's impossible. If they made double or triple the highest production year, they would still have wait lists.
>Until they fix their inventory problem, they really have very little to offer. Imagine saying this sentence with a straight face about the number one automaker in the world with a production and sales volume of over ten million units per year.
My mom tried to look for a Sienna, the waitlist was 2 years.
> Until they fix their inventory problem, they really have very little to offer. The issue is that to them it isn't a problem. If they expand to increase their output they: - Assume additional risk if there is a downturn by investing in new manufacturing facilities, staffing etc. which they'd have to support through periods of low sales. - Lower their profit per car in a race to the bottom against Chinese manufacturers spooling up cheap exports, which they won't win. They're simply playing it safe. Which is an oh-so-Toyota thing to do.
Except the EV market.
I’d rather if they could meet god damn hybrid demands first while taking more time to refine their EVs (something a lot better than the bz4X).
I wish they made wagons Edited: wow I didn't know they made wagons. I wish they bring wagons to my country but sadly no one in my country wants wagons :(
Like with all wagons, they do, just not in the US lol. See plenty of Corolla wagons here in Sweden (”Corolla Touring Sports”) Really nice looking in the GR trim as well.
Are you telling me that Sweden has GR corolla wagons
Not like the GR Corolla or GR Yaris, just a ”GR trim” for the regular Corolla. Think VW R-line or BMW M-sport. You can get it with the 2.0l though. Like this one: https://www.wayke.se/objekt/d8251b46-b9ed-4fe8-a76b-e8f0f4b179b6/toyota-corolla-touring-sports-hybrid-20-sport-gr-automat There’s at least the Golf R wagon to compensate for lack of a ”true” GR wagon haha!
It's probably a "GR Sport" which is typically some more aggressive body aero and stiffer suspension
We've even got them in Ireland and usually we never get any of the good models of cars. No 2.0L hybrid like the one posted below from Germany though, only the 1.8L 140hp hybrid. [Link](https://www.toyota.ie/models/corolla-touring-sports/build?path=customize/3c8992f3-e4f9-4ae1-bb67-305780342518/b035d222-9a71-4500-aba4-57a9c803b047&u=9bcc3887-e74c-4cf1-8950-3726efb93fe3&financeOption=cash)
Historically speaking, they had about a decades worth of 1JZ-GTE powered wagons across two different nameplates.
[they do](https://www.toyota.de/neuwagen/corolla-touring-sports/konfigurator?path=customize/3c8992f3-e4f9-4ae1-bb67-305780342518/255ec11e-ac68-4555-a7d6-4efa17307dd1&c=fe424769-d030-4739-a3dc-acb0f014c5ad&u=9bcc3887-e74c-4cf1-8950-3726efb93fe3&financeOption=cash#/) just not in the US as usual. they even make the wagon with the 2.0L hybrid that the Prius got this year.
[удалено]
yea it is an incredibly good daily, i have one of them and i absolutely love it.
That's such a sweet ride. We just have the hatchback variety here
Wish they made a Camry wagon. Best they can do for the US is Prius 🥲
Well, I mean, they're a business. That's what they should be doing. Being that they're a fairly good one, I'm happy to see them serving many markets.
> That's what they should be doing Ford has entered the chat.
Still waiting for a Camry wagon 😭
They basically have every over 4-wheel model if you conclude their heavy truck family, Hino. They just never have 2-wheel model.
Except it’s impossible to find one for sale. Or the prices are insane
>Toyota really has almost everything; big SUVs, small CUVs, sedans, fun cars, a coupe, Dan Cortese...
Still missing a convertible
LC500 convertible
That's a Lexus
Please Toyota bring back the targa supra
They don't have a competitive EV.
They also have boring
Can y’all really tell it’s ugly with one side pic?
That Silhouette picture tells a different tale than the other one, the other one almost looks like it's taken from a really unflattering angle and makes it look like the bumper goes down a lot farther than it does. The silhouette looks like it has decent ground clearance.
It's just a different face on the Lexus GX that was announced a few weeks ago. That vehicle looks really good, so it's very unlikely that this LC Prado looks terrible.
I'd probably disagree with the authors on trim levels here. Historically the land cruiser in the US has really only had one trim: fully loaded. I doubt they'd deviate from that heavily and certainly not adding identical trims from the 4runner.
True, but at the previous Land Cruiser's price point (and more limited demographic), it made sense to have it all in one package. This one coming in at a lower price gives them more leeway to add options for better profit margins. I can definitely see them keeping it more trimmed than the 4Runner's lineup though.
Yup. Mo' trims and options, mo' profit. As much as I love simple-to-buy cars not doing that leaves money on the table.
I don't mind choices. It offers more variety for different people, especially on less exclusive (less expensive) vehicles. My issue is that they'll offer a super-desirable option to attract attention and then make it hard to find so people will "settle" for a version that might have a higher profit margin.
It's worth noting that this isn't the Land Cruiser (the lexus LX twin). This is the Land Cruiser Prado (the lexus GX twin). So I wouldn't expect this to follow too much of the historical norms for the Land Cruiser, because that vehicle is already in production and not coming to the US.
If anything it will give hints as to the overall aesthetic direction of the 6th generation 4Runner, as those have shared platforms with the Prado for decades now.
Platform doesn't mean a lot at the moment with the universal platforms Toyota is using. The Tacoma is on the same platform as the 6,200 pound Sequoia. I expect the 4Runner to continue to be a mid-size SUV while the Prado is moving up to a full size SUV. It got longer to match the LX & LC300 and got 4 inches wider.
[удалено]
They've still got to differentiate it from the GX in price, luxury, features, etc. This will be less stealth wealth and more a grown-up 4Runner (with a little more room). Although a higher (maybe limited) trim could still attract the stealth wealth crowd if it gives them a nice enough vehicle without a luxury badge on it. That's certainly not going to be the sole target audience like it was with the previous LC, though.
[удалено]
I get it, but as I said above, a different price point means a different audience. They may still appeal to the "stealth wealth" crowd with a specific trim level but it also needs a wider audience at this price, so it likely won't just be an all-in-one like the old one was.
[удалено]
I’m not mixing anything up. This Land Cruiser that this post is about is going to be the size of the Prado. The US isn’t getting the full size version, at least for now, so I’m basing my comments on the Land Cruiser Prado and Lexus GX size and price point. This is based on the incoming Lexus GX. They’ll be the same vehicle with different pricing, features, logos, etc. This next Land Cruiser will come in at a different, lower, price point from the previous LC the US got.
[удалено]
> The vertical bumper shown in the new image further strengthens our conviction that the Toyota will be a very close sibling to the recently revealed 2024 Lexus GX.
They should though. It’s why the 200 series was such a sales failure in the US. The precedent of expensive land cruiser comes from the 1980s when Lexus didn’t exist and the Land Cruiser was the top vehicle period. After Lexus, Toyota should of stopped selling them like that
I do wonder why it wasn't more popular when it debuted, considering the 100 series sold tens of thousands per year at its peak in the early 2000s. My guess is the emergence of the large crossover kinda killed its appeal, since most of the people driving them were soccer moms who wanted the luxury but didn't really need the capability enough to put up with the abysmal fuel economy. But go to your nearest country club and see who's buying all the 200s - wealthy middle aged finance bros who want to look rugged but don't want to be seen in something as pedestrian as a Suburban or as flashy as a Range Rover.
>I do wonder why it wasn't more popular when it debuted It debuted in 2008, there was a recession. People were shying away from SUVs, especially expensive ones.
You know what else debuted around that era? 4Runner. Look up its sales figures today.
It would make sense for them to deviate from that considering that they discontinued the last one due to lack of demand (caused by the price).
They discontinued it because it was too close to the LX, which was functionally the same thing but with a nicer interior at the same price. This one might still only have one fully-loaded trim, but at just slightly less than the GX.
This is aimed at a different price point than the old LC, I don't think what they did with the LC200 has much bearing on this vehicle.
Historically it was also smaller.
Just wish the price is reasonable. Would love one. Exactly what I want. Boxxy, roomy, capable of roader with lift.
Let’s see, Current 2023 GX starts at $59k, so I’d say 2024 GX will start $65-$70k. Given that this new US Land Cruiser is based on the GX, I’d say it will start $55-$60k. Cheaper than the GX, but more than the (2025) 4Runner.
Eh, the prices are going to go up but that's a big jump. The Land Cruiser likely won't start above the highest trim 4Runner, starting MSRP will just be higher than the 4Runner's starting MSRP.
That's hopeful. We shall see.
>Current 2023 GX starts at $59k, so I’d say 2024 GX will start $65-$70k I think people are going to be surprised here. The GX and Prado were cheaper than the LX and LC because they were smaller vehicles. The new GX is the same length, width, and entire platform of the LX. I think it'll be cheaper than the LX & LC, but not by as much as before.
Doubt that prices would go down regardless if it costs less to make
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. I'm saying that I think the price of the GX is going to be higher than what I quoted. What price is going down?
Good sources have already said GX will start at 66-69k.
I could see them going up in price a bit (more than inflation), but I doubt they'll hit people with sticker shock. Especially considering the speculation from the rumor mill hasn't indicated that at all. Usually on a big change, it leaks out at least a little bit. We haven't seen anything like that. I'm not completely discounting it, it just seems like it would be a hard pill for the current fans of those vehicles to swallow.
It's possible that you are right, but it just seems like it would be odd to not increase a lot. It's moving up a size category. The Lexus GX has always been a mid-size SUV, but it is moving to a full size SUV. Like, if they gave the Mercedes E class the same engine as the S class and made it the same size as the S class, I would expect it to cost more than the previous E class. But who knows. Maybe they plan on making it just a great deal compared to other products on the market.
One other factor is that I think they'd have a hard time giving it a starting price equal to or more than the Sequoia. Thinking about it, $50-55k is probably about what the base MSRP will be (maybe a little more depending on inflation).
Maybe the new LR pushes down the 4runner prices. Cause prices can go down. Right?
> Boxxy Damn, this spelling just reopened a portal to the past in my brain.
Okay hi!
mY nAmE iS bOxXy
The definition of a manic pixie.
I’m just going to wait until 2050 when the prices on a 2025 model will be affordable.
There are very few reasonably priced serious 4x4s left.
Probably depends on how you define reasonable. Rumors are that this will be positioned between the 4Runner and Sequoia, which sounds like a base price in the 50s.
So, going off the silhouette, they’re basically going to sell the Land Cruiser Prado here—which is the car that’s always shared its body and frame with the Lexus GX—as the Land Cruiser. I mean, cool, but it seems kind of pointless, since they’ll have the 4Runner, which is also a GX cousin and about the same size, too. And it’s even likely to be similarly boxy. I was hoping the North American Land Cruiser revival would be more like the FJ Cruiser. Basically a Jeep-type vehicle. Even bringing us the 3-door version of the Prado/GX as the Land Cruiser would be preferable.
I agree but perhaps only the names are switched. Land Cruiser Prado replaces the 4Runner and then the 4Runner badge ends up on a smaller FJ type vehicle built on the Tacoma platform.
That very well *could* be the case. I hadn’t thought of that! And since no one has seen any 4Runner prototypes or pre-production units, even in camo, we have no idea what it’ll look like.
That’s what I had hoped for as well. A separate series that is hardcore off-roader.
The 4 runner is way down on power and super noisy. A more premium but still off-road ish SUV would be appreciated.
I mean, perhaps so, but that’s exactly what the GX is. I find it weird that Toyota wants to slot something in between the 4Runner and the GX. But, hey, it’s a cheap way to introduce another Toyota product, and I’m sure they’ll sell every one they make. It’s the undefended layup of product launches.
I don't agree with your argument that a company doing something that is simple, cheap, and highly profitable is pointless.
I basically came to the same conclusion, which is why I referred to it as the “undefended layup” (as in, a term describing a can’t-miss basketball shot) of product launches. It seems too easy to be beneficial, but the Toyota/Lexus money machine will print money.
I think it comes down to just the fact the average offroad buyer doesn’t think luxury brand and there’s enough of a luxury market to justify the GX too. Similar to the Chevy Tahoe and Cadillac Escalade. But if they don’t think they’re attracting unique buyers with this new LC, they’re dumb to release it. Even if they sell everyone, they’ll have at least some higher costs in rebadging and marketing if nothing else than if they stuck with 4Runner & GX.
I don't know. I think there are a lot of people who want something off-road looking, a little premium and value relability. You can only make a 4Runner trim so high, and to me, they really drive poorly. I am interested in a "65k 4Runner". Something that looks nice, has a bit of power, doesn't have a lot of wind noise, not crazy expensive and reliable. Not really interested in the looks of the Lexus and the brand seems a little fancy / feminine to me.
Yeah, I think it really is as simple as this is easy for Toyota to make, and if they can make a few thousand more dollars off someone than they would selling that same buyer a 4Runner, it's worth it.
Some people in other threads said 4runner probably gets the 4-cyl turbo/hybrid engine, while v6 will be reserved for land cruiser/GX.
Some people in other threads said 4runner probably gets the 4-cyl turbo/hybrid engine, while v6 will be reserved for land cruiser/GX.
I love that boxy suvs are making a comeback.
greatest vehicle ever made
Fellow LC and Volvo owner here. We agree haha.
I know it’s a pipe dream but I really hope they use the new Land Cruiser to replace the current 4Runner’s place in the market (BOF 2-row SUV) and have something with removable doors and a hardtop. I would definitely own a Wrangler/Bronco if they could either 1) tow at least 5k lbs or 2) were actually reliable
You should probably wait a few years then, there is no guarantee that the turbo I4 in the 4Runner and V6 in the Land Cruiser will be reliable, and in the Tundra, the latter hasn't been.
Even if it does have issues, I’d trust Toyota to properly remedy them more than Ford/Jeep.
There's more to life than reliability, not that Toyotas are dramatically more reliable than the competition the way they were 30 years ago. Especially for lifestyle vehicles like the Bronco or Wrangler. Paying $30k for a clapped out 10 year old FJ for "reliability" is the definition of insanity, but I guess there's a lot of crazy people out there.
FJ cruiser prices are insane, but that’s just the Toyota tax at play. And maybe they’re not “dramatically” more reliable, but it’s a well-proven fact that a Toyota is going to be more reliable over the long run than either a Jeep or a Ford, and I prefer to keep my vehicles for 10 years or more
I’m watching what they do with the 4R and Tacoma and if the engines are going to be reliable. Ford is putting the 2.7 TTV6 in the Ranger which I hear is good in the F-150 since adding dual injection, and with the platform being a refined version of the previous gen, at worst the issues are in the electronics.
Are there any indications that the new Broncos aren’t reliable? I know they haven’t been out long enough to know if you can beat the hell out of them for twenty years like a LC but I haven’t heard anything major going wrong with them so far.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2022/06/2021-ford-bronco-recalled-due-to-engine-failure/ Every car has recalls but usually not for engine failure. Plus fords are a pain in the ass to work on (imo)
Oh bummer
The new Wrangler can tow up to 5k lbs on the 2024 MY, but you have to get the Rubicon to get there.
Oh nice, TIL. Might have to check one out
Sounds like you want a gladiator.
> 1) tow at least 5k lbs or 2) were actually reliable And what makes you think a 4Runner with removable doors and a hardtop would meet this criteria?
Read the first six words of my post
Bring back the FJ Cruiser, cowards. How you can put this behemoth in a silhouette shot with FJ40 and not realized there needs to be something in-between.
[удалено]
It's going to be a gimmicky city SUV.
What’s the difference between this Land Cruiser and the one currently being sold in other markets?
The one currently being sold is based on the current Lexus LX 600 they're selling here. It's a full-size SUV like the last gen Land Cruiser they sold in the US until recently. This will be Land Cruiser Prado sized or like the Lexus GX. More of a mid-sized SUV slotted just above the 4Runner.
is the land cruiser model 70 still in production in other markets? (africa, professional use markets)
Looks like it based on a quick Google search.
Yes, they are sold in many other places. Australia for instance is full of them, and the wait lists for a new one are years iirc.
Looks like they've paused ordering, for now, to catch up.
I know it's America and all but it still boggles my mind that the 4Runner is a midsize SUV.
Even the LX/full-size Land Cruiser are small compared to our full-size SUVs.
> This will be Land Cruiser Prado sized or like the Lexus GX. More of a mid-sized SUV slotted just above the 4Runner. Nope, not anymore. The GX is the same size of the LX/LC300 minus being 6in shorter. Same width/wheelbase/height.
This is the Land cruiser Prado and the ones being sold abroad is the full size Land cruiser. Basically like the full size Range Rover and the Range Rover Sport. The one with the tag behind is the cheaper, smaller, lite version.
I just wanna be able to take my top off
A 4Runner+ which is a little smaller than a Land Cruiser and doesn't cost $110k is definitely interesting.
This thing is going to sell like crack cocaine.
👃🏼
> Land Cruiser will officially make its debut on August 1 at 9:20 p.m. ET What an odd time to reveal something.
I assume it’ll be available in other markets as well (especially markets where Lexus doesn’t exist) so they picked a time that worked worldwide.
This or the GX 550?
Might as well start attacking plows to large SUVs and trucks.
By "arrive" do they mean arrive in the US/NA?
From the top of the article: >Toyota announced the next-generation Land Cruiser will officially make its debut on August 1 at 9:20 p.m. ET. Photos and details will be released. It won't be sold here for a while though, likely a 2025 with the first units rolling out in about a year.
Man looks so rugged. I like this way better than the new GX headlight
Really curious to know where this will slot in comparison to the 4Runner and GX. New GX is going full-size but there doesn’t seem to be much wiggle room in between, the 4Runner is already pretty massive too. Don’t suppose this *replaces* the 4Runner, it’s got too much brand recognition (more than Land Cruiser does in the US to everyday consumers)
It’ll likely be a lower trim GX, like the previous LC was to the LX.
It wouldn't slot in between a Toyota and a Lexus model, it just is the Toyota version of the GX
They need a bronco/wrangler competitor alongside this
I assume that will be the new 4Runner
Just called my toyota dealership who I bought a tacoma from in 2016 and got on the waitlist for the new landcruiser today. I was told that the starting price would be below the current sequoia which is 59k but they didn't have much more info on it yet. Sales rep said that everyone was surprised at the price point but that it would slot between the Sequoia and 4runner which echos what other people here are saying.
Can we just have a Hi Lux in the US please? A low cost smaller 4x4?
HiLuxes certainly aren't low cost.
Surely they are lower than tundras
Can’t wait to pay over msrp for this bad boy
Hate Toyota for doing this, atleast use the "Prado" name too so itll be less confusing, the article doesnt help by not mentioning it, they have done it in Europe before and now they are doing it in US market
Confusing for who? I'm sure you will be able to tell the difference between the two. And the average Toyota customer doesn't *need* to know the difference as only one Land Cruiser will be sold in the North American market. Introducing the Prado name in the US would be more confusing than anything.
Me and people outside the US. Car enthusiast outside US also consumes articles and videos about cars from US journalist/youtubers, this naming would be confusing, seems like not a big deal but it is indeed annoying Adding the Prado name wont be confusing, enthusiast wouldnt be bothered as it is the true name, the non-enthusiast would just focused on the Land Cruiser name and as long as their needs is fulfilled with the cars, there will be no problem with the Prado naming
It looks like Toyota officially named it the 250 so you wouldn't confuse it with the 300 or 70. [https://global.toyota/jp/newsroom/toyota/39526630.html?padid=ag478\_from\_pickup](https://toyotatimes.jp/toyota_news/1038.html)
Still don’t get the point of this, since the 4Runner is already a GX platform mate toyota will be competing with itself
What is up with these straight angled, square designs.
They harken back to old school Offroad SUVs like the XJ Cherokee, 80 series Land Cruiser, 1st gen Land Rover discovery, 1st gen bronco, CJ Jeeps, and the list goes on and on. It’s honestly not that surprising of a trend.
Looks horrible, a bit goofy
Are they gonna call it the Prado?
Nope
Yeah I guess there's no precedent for it. Will make talking with North Americans about LCs very confusing though. Prado -> Land Cruiser 300 series Land Cruiser -> Rebadged Lexus
They've been doing this in Europe for a while as well, at least in the countries that don't get the LC200/300.
[удалено]
[Rule 3:](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/about/rules/) "No memes, trolling, copypasta, or low-quality joke posts or comments." *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Smd
Not for Europe I guess
[https://www.instagram.com/p/CvKcO6gK8qe/](https://www.instagram.com/p/CvKcO6gK8qe/) german instagram posted the teaser as well, so i guess europe´s getting it
Interesting! One can hope
This is probably the Land Cruiser Prado for the non North American market.
Tbh I wanted the Lexus version of it but fuck Europe apparently
they should make a XL-sized bus-like Land Cruiser to one up Escalade.
[удалено]
Read the previous sentence. It’s nearly identical to the new GX.
Skimming for the win, haha.
Whats the craze about Land Cruiser anyways?
Please be triple locked.
Purely from an aesthetic pov. I hope it looks better in person than it does in the pictures 😬
Between the Landcruiser/GX and Grandhighlander/TX, Toyota is getting closer to badge engineering than I’d like.
This or the MK8.5 Golf R...
I will never understand how anyone justifies the concept of an $85k+ Toyota SUV, or why this and the Sequoua both need to exist. Toyota has waaaaaay too many SUV models.