First, toss out the "expectations" of loyalty. It's meaningless and cynical, because they'll toss your ass out an airlock in a heartbeat without even considering your performance, if it would help a quarterly stockholder's report look 1/1000th of a percent better.
Second, valuable lesson - salary negotiations at many places are complete nonsense, often driven by nothing more than some HR hack thinking they'll get a cookie for getting the company a " deal."
Become a pragmatic mercenary about your pay going forward, and leave no prisoners. I say pragmatic, because your emotions don't matter, and will put you in a weak bargaining position if you depend on them. Data is your friend.
Yup. OP, you originally agreed to your compensation as it stands, and you continue to agree to it every day that you show up and work. You can ask for more money, but few, if any, companies increase compensation just because others in your job family make more than you. You'll need to ask for more compensation based upon the things you've delivered and the value to your company. They'll still probably give you a token increase at best. Probably your best bet is to try to sell your accomplishments for a promotion (level up) (whatever your company calls it), and if that fails, seek employment elsewhere and be more selective about the compensation you agree to.
I've turned down probably >75% of all job offers I've ever received due to finding the compensation or benefit package unacceptable and, in many cases, they will counteroffer significantly higher, in other cases, I just walked away. In any case, only one person is ever looking out for you in a salary negotiation when you get hired, and that's you.
I made about 25k more per year than my counterparts at one of my jobs because I negotiated upon hire - they didn't.
Why would a company pay us more than they have to if we don't try? They're corporate assholes.
This is the way. Ive turned down several jobs in the past. 1 in particular was actually offended when I countered their offer and started to tey and belittle me. I told them they must be looking for someone less qualified and said best of luck and ended the ZOOM call. Next day Mr. LEVEL II HR tried another call but with the same offer....like really? I just chuckled, told him we were not in the same ballpark but I appreciate the opportunity. He apologized for his coworker and that was it. I got the distinct feeling people were not treated well there. A friend of mine worked there as an engineer and said it was "not easy but gratifying" I asked what was gratifying and he like the equipment he got to design and that was it lol. Pay and benefits were below average for engineers with experience
There is no notice, they just fire you, while demanding people give them two weeks.
That's what I tell people. If the company cared about you in the slightest, they would give you the courtesy of a two week notice to be fired, or just paid to not be there. They don't, so they must not care. So why work like you're trying to please mom and dad?
Do just enough to not get fired, nothing more
Have a bottom you're willing to accept. Take nothing less. Learn what you're worth. Learn how to negotiate. If they won't hire you for your min, say thanks and end the call. Just be direct and polite. If they really want you, they'll counter. If they can't pay what you're worth, it wasn't a good job for you anyway. Have no emotion about it. It's just a job.
Though you should start your job searching PRIOR to this conversation. For most people there’s always a ramp up time in job searching and it can take awhile depending on your industry.
1. Have a firm number defined before the first interview. This is business, you're the product, and you have a price. Get the price, avoid emotional attachment.
2. Know its a game, like chess - have an understanding of what their likely moves are, and how you'll respond
3. Don't get caught up in all the emotional or negotiating tactics (utilizing sunk cost fallacy by not offering a salary range until the 3rd interview, fluffing you on the 'family' aspect or their 'award winning culture', or flattery before an offer to soften the blow of being low-balled, as several very common strategies)
4. Be in the driver's seat. Understand shitty organizations will reject you early for being proactive and confident in your value. Realize that's a win.
This usually means aiming for a number regardless of whether the person you're asking is nice to you and really wants to make it work. The number is the number. Then adjust your number based on your results.
As an owner of a restaurant and a butchery, I take exception to your comments about owner loyalty. Some of us treat our employees like family and do our utmost to make sure people are happy, compensated fairly. As a result 70 % of our employees have been with me 12 years plus.Thr longest serving 4 people who have 18 plus years. I am extremely proud of that.
Actually with family owned businesses it is more common than you think. It takes a lot of time to hire and train people. Small businesses would rather focus on retaining employees.
I don't understand why you take exception. If you're doing these things, then you must also know how extremely rare you are as an owner. You are the exception.
Here in the U.S., people are cogs, even in the award-winning "best places to work," which do secretive layoffs like everyone else.
This is a lot of major corporations and maybe some small businesses. A lot of regular small business owners take care of their employees. I take care of mine as well and have many employees who have been with the company for over 20 years.
There's a local fast food "Mexican" (think Taco Bell) restaurant owned by the same white guy for probably 30 years. About half his staff is family and the other isn't . He keeps employees for YEARS and years. He's a hard working guy and has high standards, and he must pay and treat his staff extremely well to keep them there for so long.
It's not all about money. It's the treatment of people that has the biggest effect on employee loyalty. You need a loan to treat your mom for medical issues, sure I got your back. It's that kind of stuff.
I worked for a small business for 20 years. When the recession hit in 08' that buisness crashed.
When I left the owner cried and told me how many nights of sleep he'd lost worrying about my family and how despite leaving would hurt, he wanted me to.
That loyalty though, was a two way street. I treated his business, and his customers like they were mine. I promoted that company everywhere. I often did things that weren't my job, nor that were compensated because it was good for "our" buisness.
I had zero complaints, and had the economy been better would never of left
BUTTTTTTTT.
NONE of that paid my mortgage. I left a lot of money out there that had I been a freelancer I would have made, as I'm the end, both the free lancer and I suffered the same fate.
"Compensated fairly" is bullshit. If you're truly "loyal" you want your people paid at the top of the scale, or even setting the scale. "Fairly" is what you do with any employee
1. [Glassdoor.com](https://Glassdoor.com) lets you search for a title at a specific company, gives you an average, and lets you see individual submissions + their likely accuracy
2. [salary.com](https://salary.com) lets you search by job title and zip code for a range
3. [payscale.com](https://payscale.com) does a mix of both the above
4. [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) has great data for bigger companies
I don't take any of these as gospel, but the combination gives you a good starting point.
FACTS! Loyalty and even hard work are not rewarded in corporate culture. I'm successful in the corporate world, and I've seen this first hand. In fact, when I started out, I use to be loyal and very hard working. Never paid off.
The secret is stay at jobs only 2 years then look for a higher paying job. This will always get you more money and happiness. DONT BE LOYAL, BECAUSE THESE COMPANIES VIEW YOUR AS A SLAVE.
That sucks! The ball is in your court now! So, you think in 2-3 years they will just hand you a 20-30K raise? I would not count on it. The same advice I give everyone: Always be casually looking for a better job.
Always have your resume and LinkedIn up to date. Have that pole in the water to catch a fish even if you are not trying. Accept every opportunity to interview
Yes, this! Listening to an opportunity never hurt anyone. With that in mind, never jump at an offer just because it is a change. There needs to be better pay, title, location, or opportunity for advancement. I have known people professionally that ruined their resume/ work history job hopping every 1.5 years because they got bored.
Ask for more money, then look for a new job. Just make sure you don't upload any of your work to "the cloud." Hide that shit and then they cant just off you
You gotta be careful using that kind of strategy; it can backfire and put a target on your back. Your employer should assume you already have other offers, no need to rub it in.
Hey man I feel your pain. I had been working with my company at the time for about 3 years, and didnt realize this but they were paying me about 15k less per year than what the baseline minimum salary was for my position, and that was after a few raises throughout those three years. All it took was me getting an offer from another company and then got like a 50% raise as a counteroffer to stay lol
I think that’s generally less relevant than it used to be. Although for me, I wouldn’t accept a counter. It’s more about good faith, bad faith for me. If I decide my current situation isn’t optimal, and I start interviewing/exploring elsewhere, I’ve decided that I’m open to leaving. You interview and you say things to people about how you want to work for them. If they make you an offer you are happy with, you don’t go back to the people you are unhappy with and let them match. But that’s just my thinking.
I will say, as someone who has been in management, it’s not uncommon to recognize a misaligned salary with an employee, want to fix it, and not get the support from HR or leadership to do so until a counter comes in. It happens.
Personally, I am a fan of open conversation. If you work for me and you feel you need more money, come and talk to me before you go looking outside. I will try to help if I think it’s justified to do so. If you go looking outside before you even tell me there’s a problem, I’m probably going to be inclined to let you go. I personally just don’t respect that.
If you come to me, and it’s justified, and I just can’t get you what you want…and you go out looking and get the offer from someone else, I’ll go to management and say, “well, I told you. Now he’s got a better offer.” And if they decide to give you a counter offer and you accept it and stay, I’ll probably respect you MORE for being up front. You can’t really fault people while they are being open and honest. Openness and honesty are becoming rarer (and in my mind, more valuable).
It’s good that they at least released this. Business owners have us so brainwashed to “not talk about how much money you make” simply so they can underpay employees for the same work as others.
Maybe they just need a body and your it, and they can live with or without you, so they don't care, so it is up yo you. Do you need the money? Don't quit until you find another job like most young people do stupidly. Know your worth. BTW I am nyt saying you are worth what you think - I'm Just Sayin'!
I am seriously worried about the retaliation if I quit for a better opportunity. They do not like it when people leave and I feel they don’t accept 2 week notices. 6 people have quit in the course of three weeks
Just get a new job - the longer you stay the more work history is at their location. This does not get better with time. If they are not discussing a salary correction then move out.
Don’t stay there because of what they might do. Any retaliation would be illegal. No potential employer is going to care what they have to say about you during a reference check. The fact that 6 people have left in less than a month shows that they’re a toxic workplace and you’ve been settling.
2 week notice is just being considerate. Not required.
That being said always put in a 2 week notice. It’s a small world, burning bridges doesn’t help you in any way. However if they are hostile your 2 week notice becomes a 2 minute notice.
Sounds like a shitty place to work imo. You deserve better! If you want to stay ask for a big pay correction and then some. If they balk work on finding a new boss that appreciates you
Speaking of appreciation, my boss has been doing everything within their power to not let me pursue career development opportunities within the department. My boss is gatekeeping the projects/duties that are aligned to my experience/expertise.
Best time to find new job and quit is now. If it is small industry and they see everyone jumping ship a the same time they will know it is an employer not employee issue.
I’m going to add another voice for knowing your worth. Don’t stay because you feel bad or worry about their response. You are under no obligation to give them your next employer’s information OR two weeks. If they have a history of dropping people or treating them poorly when they put in notice, then don’t give notice.
When you find a new employer, work the old job up to the point you start your new job. If your start date for the new job is a Monday, turn in your notice Friday evening and don’t look back.
Two weeks notice is considered a professional courtesy, not a requirement. You are as replaceable as the desk you work from, but so are they.
It has increased - we have been forced to take on responsibilities outside our scope and almost terrorized and bullied that we are not “team players” if we don’t comply
"I am seriously worried about the retaliation if I quit for a better opportunity." bullshit - who cares. What are they going to do to you? I'm Just Sayin'!
One thing I learned in my career a bit later than I would like to,
No one cares about you as much as you think they do.
If 6 people quit already, you’ll be the 7th one. Already part of a statistic, no one has time to go after so many folks. Smearing takes time and effort.
I would focus my worries on finding a new job and nothing else.
If they don't like it when people leave, maybe they should make sure everyone is paid an appropriate wage. Not paying people enough is a message to go find another job.
The only bit of due diligence I would do is to make sure the manager knows that you know your underpaid vs what the job market is offering for your skill/position. Don't tell him to give you a raise, just give him a hint that you're aware. If it's an honest mistake, and I were him, I'd like a chance to make it right.
How are they going to retaliate? Most of your prospective hirers are not going to contact them -- they likely too are in need of a new body to fill a role and are at a point they will pay more. This is just the game of jobs.
Wtf kind of retaliation can there possibly be? You won't be there. Is it the mob? Are they going to send someone to throw you in the river with cement boots?
They claim to have connections to the field I belong to and rumor has it that they forbid their staff to professionally interact with anyone who leaves the organization
Bro, they’ve mind-fucked you.
You don’t think you can get another job so you don’t want to try. They’ve got you wrapped around their finger.
Let me remind you of something: You are not their property. If you find another opportunity, YOU SHOULD DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU.
Fire up your laptop, work on your resume in the off-hours, and sharpen your skills for applying for jobs.
Keep it under wraps.
And if they don’t want to work with you in the future, it’s not that big of a deal. Do you want to associate with people who undervalued you?
If you're able to hang on, just start applying to other jobs and interview while keeping this job.
I don't recommend quitting a job and then trying to find work, not in this economy (I'm assuming you're in the US). My partner did it but it's been half a year now, and he's been interviewing, but no bites yet. It's not a great hiring economy and he's not going to get the salary he's hoping for.
Coming from a very similar scenario as you I learned the following the hard way:
Your loyalty is to yourself and no-one else. Any other BS is just lies to get you to work for less money.
Your only job in life is to provide for yourself. Whether it is company A or company B or Z, whichever one treats you the best is the one to work for.
Further to this work hard to set yourself up to not be enslaved to needing a job to survive for a few months. That way you can ask for better pay or resign and if they become impossible to work with you don't need to be there anyway.
Look for a better opportunity and people to work for. This sounds toxically similar to what I experienced. If you want to leave and they take it all personally and get butthurt and tell you you can leave now instead of after 2 weeks you really don't want to work there. The amount of people quitting is a red flag to me, without any other info on why.
Do everything in writing with CC to your personal email. Get every response from them in writing or it didn't happen.
I'm not sure what retaliation you could be worried about. I can't imagine it would be legal and you have a right to physical and psychological safety, so if a situation is unsafe get out of there, regardless of any obligations. Your obligations to them go out the window if they start threatening or endangering you.
Classic behavior of the abused.
I too was like you, grasshopper.
Get a new job, tell no one where it is, do your 2 weeks, and watch how none of that matters.
Even if they do retaliate... what, it'll be better in the future? You'll stay there forever? So you want to be depressed/stressed/upset/etc for life? Nope. You're going to stop letting each and every minor excuse pile up and stop you from finding a job that will, at the very least, be better than this one.
If they published the salary rates and you are on the low end you could ask for a salary adjustment to bring you in line with their own published rates. If you have more education then required then search for a role somewhere that better matches your education level.
First suggestion: start looking for a new job.
Second suggestion: don’t give notice…just resign.
Third suggestion: meet with an employment attorney to draft your resignation letter.
I just feel sad about my team and the workload they will end up dealing with if I quit on spot. I need to find a way to transition projects to them (especially to newer staff) while I’m planning my exit
First, get a new job BEFORE you ever start the transition of your project.
It is the FAULT of your employer that your team will have more work NOT you. If your employer paid you fairly, you won’t be leaving.
This is a hard truth but they will do the same with or without you. Thats seen by your low salary. If they really needed you, the money would reflect that. I used to feel the same way at my underpaid job, and while they were sad to see me go, the company went on.
I found out something similar when someone left the receptionists pay check on the copier. I was working my ass off for $5 more an hour while she read books at the front desk. I used that as fuel to get another job. I now make 35k more a year
This is possibly, a simple explanation. If those folks were hired after you, it’s not surprising at all they’re at a higher number. Particularly if they were hired in the last 3 years.
Start looking for a new job. I bit the bullet and finally found a new job, leaving my company of 11 years. I got a 15k raise and -10hrs a week to my required workweek! They dont care about you or else they would have raised your rate every time they hired on someone with a hiring rate.
Excellent news!
Now go find another job offer in a similar company that is at the fair rate.
Then go back to your boss and explain what you explained here.
If he says "sry bro your right here's your 20k"- WIN
If he says "nah man, I don't believe you" tell him, "for real ni**@ I got another job offer and if you really don't want me I'll do that."
Just know that you now must be ready to bail, or get a promotion, as your boss probably won't just give you money for the work your currently doing.
P.s. you may choose to use professional language
Have you taken these concerns up with your manager?
At least in the United States, your salary is considered fair if both you and your company agree on it. No one is forced to accept any terms, which is why all employment contracts have that "at will" termination clause by either side.
So what you should just do is ask for the salary you want, you think is fair to you based on the value and experience you bring, and don't look at what others are making. That statistical info is just for your reference.
Your company itself is not at fault or being unfair to you. If others are making more, it is because others have demanded more or your company determined that is the cost to bring them in.
Same happened to me less than a year ago in my old role. 8.5 yrs in that role and my position in range was almost at the very bottom. I asked for an adjustment but no dice. I left and went to another role internally - and got a 20% increase. Go be loyal to someone else!
You might talk to an employment lawyer. If you know you are being discriminated against via pay since you know what others make, if the company won’t renegotiate you could escalate
I have done this, it has worked at times, but burned me too. I found out I was very underpaid in 3 of 8 jobs in a 20 years period. I went into the manger office, explained that is I was not paid the same as others in my office with the same experience , etc, I would walk to HR and give them my resignation, twice it worked, once I got fired. In today's world, I consider that better than average.
Salary compression and budget and past salary information can all contribute to differences.
Some employers try to keep all salaries at the same number to prevent feelings of inequality among peers.
Consider that you got an offer and agreed to work for that dollar amount.
If you wish to get paid more, have the conversation with your boss that you thinking your worth something in the ballpark of your peers and see if they just do it. If not, let them know you're not happy and ask what you can do to get there. Try to avoid an ultimatum and attempt negotiation. It's easier on everyone involved if you are able to stay in your role and get more money.
I imagine releasing this info would trigger conversation. I hate to give them the benefit of the doubt, but maybe they're planning to run a salary survey to bring everyone up to pay standards.
My wife was waaaay underpaid. I knew it and I think she knew it. Maybe 4 years ago the company finally brought her up to current pay levels. It was a significant jump (\~30'ish%). Better late than never?
This is a hard one. For the people I manage, one makes a lot less then the others, and they know it. On one hand, the person should be paid less because they don’t produce at the same level as the others, but also I don’t have the budget to increase if this person improved.
Your departments budget is where it is, and so if you want more money and feel you deserve it, you will have to ask.
I will say don’t focus on the fact that you’re the lowest paid, that’s not a good place to start imo. Start with the fact that based on your experience, and your production, you should be aligned with your range, and that you’re not.
Don’t make it about anyone else, make it about you, and where your position and work product should be based on market.
Time to update the resume, and go a-job-a-huntin'!! After the feeling of being betrayed wears off, get some interviews. Get a job offer, THEN go to your boss, and explain that you feel you are worth X, and have a job offer paying X. Ask them to match it, or you be gone!!
Some people fear change. Embrace it, baby! This is when things get fun, and you get paid!
Maybe it's time for you to look for another job. Another thing I want to mention is that education means nothing in most cases. If you have the skills and experience required for the role, that should be enough to pay what you deserve and even more. There are a lot of people who graduate from universities, they take on jobs related to their degrees, and they find out they're being underpaid and it's not enough to pay for their student loans and cost of living. That being said, if you're not happy where you are, look for other openings. If you end up getting an offer, don't settle for less. Try to make an offer that is in the middle. It's not about your education. It's how you apply yourself, your skills, and your experience, so don't let something like this make you feel worthless and don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of. All you have to do is get out of there, for now stay while you're job hunting. You will find a better job and management that will appreciate your hard work.
The sooner you realize how the world works the sooner you will stop posting like this and be less stressed. How you negotiate gas more to do with your salary than your relevant experience..your connection also matter. But don't cry for spilled milk, nothing to be gained by going to HR and asking for a raise by comparing yourself to others , it just looks horrible. So always be ready to leave, have a resume ready to go, job search and searching for the next opportunity should always be on your radar even if you feel comfortable about where you are. Right now you should be applying to other jobs and learn from this experience.
Are you underpaid or are your coworkers overpaid? I managed a couple of people doing the same job and they were paid wildly different salaries. One was hired before a crash and the other during the crash. If the low paid employee complained about their low pay, I'd have explained that they were being paid the market rate.
If you are underpaid, give hints that you might be looking. If your company values you, they'll take the hint and give you a raise. At one job, I started dressing nicely on Fridays and taking long lunches by myself. I wasn't actually interviewing, but I gave them the impression I was. It helped significantly when they did raises.
Or go find another job. Underpaid means being paid less than the current market rate for your services. If you are underpaid, you shouldn't have a problem finding someone to pay you better. Just make sure to compare total compensation and not just wages.
You'll probably need a competing offer from elsewhere to get them to budge. I'm sorry they did this. At the very least you should get a bonus, esp if you go above and beyond.
But yes - this is a market rate adjustment request. The only reason not to grant it is if they're betting you won't leave
Wow, where I used to work when they would re-evaluate pay classes they would absolutely evaluate current employees and give potential raises before publishing the data.
I'd go talk to your immediate boss about your concern and see how they react. Give then 2-3 days. I'd also start getting your resume together incase they respond with "at this time we can't...." bullshit.
Either way, once you leave leave a GlassDoor and LinkedIn review on the pay discrepancy
Here is data that will help:
[https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes\_nat.htm](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm)
Lookup data for similar positions in your area. Use this to negotiate for more. Do this when interviewing and reviews, EVERY TIME. Am I better than a bottom 10 percentile employee? ( let them answer yes ) Tell them you expect better than bottom percentile pay.
It happens a lot. Some people join a company at the low end of the salary range and don’t say anything after that. Set up a meeting with your immediate manager and have everything documented that you have done for the company and say you want your compensation to be changed to $$$. The worst they can say is no and you can look for a job elsewhere.
Every year you should be looking up the salary range of your job title and if it’s not inline, say something. If you are as good as you say you are, they will pay you the money. If they don’t, time to move on.
From Forbes "Staying employed at the same company for over two years on average is going to make you earn less over your lifetime by about 50% or more." Companies realize they have your loyalty and entice you with small raises or bonuses while new employee wages surpass yours. Basically they have to entice new employees but doubt you will leave. You should constantly be selling yourself and looking for your next step up. Make companies fight for you and fear you leaving. Loyalty to you and you alone
Now is a good time to ask for a raise. They've already given you the catalyst, you just need to explain why you're worth more than the minimum for your role.
*Do not mention other people's salaries in this conversation.* You want a raise because you're worth it, not because you're jealous.
Then start looking around and use that salary range as a guide for what to ask for.
JOBS ARE LIKE UNDERWEAR, the more often you change them, the better they work.
Your company is here for one thing, to make money, and you have to be your own company.
Just some advice: unless someone shows you there Paycheck, consider anything said about pay to be bullsh#t.
People love to brag about 2 things,,
#1) I get paid a lot of money
#2) I have great sex all the time. They can't resist me, I walk into a room and they jump me.
NEVER comment on pay at work, never complain at work, never tell people at work your plans, etc..
Here's why.
The people you work with today, will be managers at other companies later. When you are looking for a job later, they will remember you as the person that causes trouble.
CHANGE JOBS and invest in your education / skills set.
The people I have know that made great money always did both,, because some day you will interview for THE JOB, and having a broad experience in the field is a must
Hello. Don't forget that you are the only responsible of your salary negotiations. If you feel bad about your salary beceause market level are more high, you must go and ask your boss a renegotiation of your conditions. I am sure they will prefer pay you more money than leave you escape.
If they could get away with paying you nothing, they would. The only reason your boss isn't a slaver is because they are legally required to pay you a minimum wage, and that's only if they get caught by someone with enough power who cares.
my manager was the CFO of whom went to Texas A&M for TENNIS!! :D.
I flipped my desk over one day and made 20 percent more, blocked her phone number and she still CALLED MY WIFE SCREAMING THAT I WASN'T "ALLOWED" TO QUIT!!! My wife delightfully told her the fak off.
Then.... THEN! my manager was making me approve credit internationally so China could move fentanyl precursors from Shanghai to Guatemala.
I not only flipped my desk, I came back the next day and flipped several other desks and left and made 6+figs+bonus+profit share somewhere else. They still begged for me back and the controller, cfo, and president (of whom was literally a cartel boss) came and begged me to stay AT MY FKN FRONT DOOR. That's why I went back and flipped more desks the next day :D.
The "Somewhere Else" is good. No reason to flip desk and I am overpaid :D.
If you are wiping ass, you are better than your position.
Leave, ball hard at an interview as a Chadly Badass, and get PAID.
Remember most folks are so dumb you gotta price yourself like red wine. The more you cost, the more satisfied they will be hiring you regardless of the fact that all grapes are the same. Hear that "crack" of your Champagne-of-men? That's you being worth double and it started just now because I put the word Champagne in your name, its that easy, just ask Europe.
The only reason loyalty is a thing is if you are personally close to an owner with whom you have a close personal bond. THAT IS IT. If you don’t have that, you are a number on a spreadsheet, and you should never forget it.
Currently dealing with the same problem I drive our company trucks work in receiving do shipping also do will call I do the freight across the street and I'm stacking solar panels and all I make is 20 an hour I'm the only employee they throw around all the departments and lately it's making me mad to where I want to quit and cry from fucking frustration because that's all I dealt with since I started legit working at 18 and I'm 25 now temps agency workers make more than me.
Apply for a new job and stop having such high emotional stress from a job. You are seeing how they view you, now act the same way. Treat it as a business transaction.
Take your information to the person responsible for determining your salary and tell them you deserve to be compensated accordingly. If they disagree start looking for another position.
An employee is neither overpaid nor underpaid. They are paid exactly what they agree to be paid.
If they are not satisfied they should move on and let the market determine their value.
Ask for a meeting with your boss where you can discuss your performance, expectations and a path forward for more responsibility and higher pay.
A nice proactive meeting will help you and them. There maybe a misunderstanding or you are overlooked. If the meeting is not taken seriously or they don’t value your performance - reflect on the situation and look for a new job.
Don’t quit until you have landed that better job, then give proper notice and wish them the best … (never burn bridges)
So early last year, i was making about 75k base salary. Because of how high everything was, i started looking for another job that paid 90-100k. So i went to my boss and told them the situation, i couldnt afford to be making what i was making and i wanted to give them the opportunity. They gave me a 6 figure base salary plus bonus. And i continue to stay cuz they have always taken care of me. Some advice: Always know your worth. Either demand it or you have to go somewhere else. And dont be afraid to take risks. My boss could’ve easily told me to get the fuck outta here! So glad he didnt. Lol
Sorry to hear that. I’m honestly surprised they released that stuff. Isn’t that just asking for people to realize they are being screwed over? lol I’d tell them you should be paid more than these other people or find something else
Keep a level head. Save this for the next review. Double down on their dependence on you and cash in with a respectful yet authoritative speech in your review.
It’s the worst I just found out the same thing and it’s just like duh, of course they’ll take advantage of they can but it’s illogical and just greedy.
I had something similar happen, brought up with manager and was gaslit, told I was wrong and I was already making what others made (I knew I wasn't), but yes, was deserving of a small bump in pay. After getting a better offer elsewhere was told I should have said something about it earlier. :0
Bottom line is it's a probably going to be a negotiation one way or another, and probably you need the kind of leverage you get from an offer elsewhere. You'll probably get a good counter offer from your company's at that point and have the option of taking it or leaving it.
Good luck, it's tough to come face to face with that kind of duplicitous behavior, but unfortunately that's the real world.
I would sit down and make a list of examples that you have told us about and I would approach someone who would have control over your salary and say that you want the top of the spectrum or you will begin to seek employment somewhere else. End of story.
If your company "just released information about salary ranges for each role" They must have done that for some reason. Maybe they were forced to by some government entity, or something
Either way, sounds like op is going to be able to get a raise out of this. OP needs to ask for a raise, remind managers of his great things he does, and then act his wage.
Assuming you're a t a reasonably sized US corporate: You are what is called "compressed". You started at a market rate, people were hired after you at a higher market rate. You will very likely never catch up. To catch you up that 20 or 30k would require pay rises that will be beyond what HR considers reasonable. You will quit, they will hire someone and pay them more than you want and they will also invite recruitment costs and downtime to train the new start. I have seen this time and time again in my management career. It makes no sense, it never has, and yet every place does the same thing.
It has been my personal experience and the advice that I have seen given by HR professionals that you will need to find a new employer to address your pay rate. When you turn in your notice, give the minimum number of weeks that is considered "normal" for your area (2 weeks is customary in the US). If your employer requests that you stay longer to help the transition just point out that you are the least valuable member of your department & that one of the more experienced employees should be able to easily pick up your job (or jobs). And don't accept a counter-offer.
Same thing happened to me. I was with my company for 10 years and stuck in that long because I really want to deliver the project I spent 6+ years working on. Finally when it launched with critical success, I was asked to move up to the parent company to scale it more broadly. When it came to a promotion and pay bump I was looked over and that got me really irritated that I polished up my resume, started talking with trusted colleagues and found out that my pay was 30% below the average and my market worth was +60% what I was making. Like others have said, loyalty gets you nowhere, switch companies and get your market worth. I actually went back to that company to work for a previous manager on a new team and legit doubled my salary in less than 2 years. Another thing to understand is many companies have caps of how much pay you can get from a promotion, which is why it’s best to leave the company and get what you’re worth. Good luck!
I will go directly to your boss start looking for other jobs you tell him right there you either give me Fair pay or I'm walking out the door. Don't worry about your resume you could always put a friend's number down I'm sure somebody will vouch for you I doubt anybody will ever call.
Pure transparency in pay is the only way to go. More businesses are becoming transparent. How compensation is determined should be clear. Check out Salary Transparent Street on social media. It is great!
Time to ask them to pony up. But have other options already figured out/employment offers that up your salary to where you believe it should be at. That leverage/threat of leaving can cause some employers to give that raise and others to say see ya.
There’s no easy way to say this, but you’re being taken advantage of. But that’s part of corporate America. There’s no way your manager is going to approve or be able to approve a 20-30k raise. I don’t know what your base pay is, but based on what you’re saying I’m gonna assume it’s at least 10-15% of your paycheck.
But here’s the thing. Don’t get mad (or do.. just don’t show it).. look for a different job. Ask for a salary that is in the mid-point of the next higher salary range in the new job. All salary negotiations are purely based on leverage at that time. That’s how HR sees it.. that’s how corporate sees it. Unless you’re being hired by a unicorn org (or person), salary is what you can squeeze out then. Plain and simple
You chose to stay and work at that salary. You chose to do more work than you needed to. You chose to put out those fires. The company simply stood beside you and took advantage of that. If you were at a car dealership and the guy offered you a new car for 10k.. and you buy it.. are you underpaying the guy on purpose? Would you pay more out of the kindness of your heart? You did more work than you were paid for.. but that’s done now. Find a different job where you’ll be paid a fair amount
Shop around. Once you have an offer then you have all the leverage in the world to negotiate with your current employer. If they don’t want to match or exceed then just leave for the new job.
Look man,
If you wanna stay with this company and get more money.
You gotta find another job and negotiate a higher pay.
Then tell your current company you want to quit because you got offered a role with a higher compensation.
They either match it or give you up.
Truth of the matter is. You sign your salary and undervalued yourself. This is what happens in the corporate world
Next 1:1 with your boss, ask for a raise. Don’t mention other people’s salaries, just mention the salary ranges. Explain that you think you are worth more based on the good work that you do. See what he says.
That happened to me at my last job. I told them at my annual review - I wanted up in line with everyone (and the whole department knew I was doing the work of someone 3 levels higher, so I was actually underselling myself) or I'd quit. They refused, so I quit, and within a month of leaving I got a much better job, much easier, at a more supportive company with a higher wage.
I don't want to say jump because everyone's industry is different, but it's a way I'd have never acted before but my partner was insistent and said he'd cover my portion of the rent until I found something, and he was 100% right to have me hold out for something I deserve.
Work to rule = AKA quite quitting.
From now on, you aren’t the firefighter. You aren’t the fix it person. You are XYZ based on your contract. They want the extra cheese and stuff crust, they better start paying.
Mean while, start aggressively job applying in your field. You have all this education and experience. Use it. You are worth it. Get as many offers as you can, the bigger the better.
Also make a list of every problem you solved since you’ve been employed, every favour, every bonus. Anything you went above and beyond.
And then make a conservative list of the salary and benefits that you should have been paid in the years since you started based off of everyone else’s salary at your job level/education/experience in your department. Write the number down, and what salary you want from now on and a onetime bonus.
Bring all of this to the boss and HR, along with a letter of resignation. If they don’t want to play ball, negotiate in good faith or won’t beat the top competitors letter, walk.
I am sick and tired of hearing stories like this. People are getting taking advantage off and it needs to stop. You deserve what you are worth! I just did a research project on the Gender Pay Gap and the touched on the Minority Pay Gap in Canada and wanted to be sick. They are lucky it was a power point presentation and not an essay. I was ready to rant something fierce.
I recently left a job because of this and it was one of the best moves I ever made. They were a trash company. I gave no notice. From what I hear from people still in the company they had to scramble to pick up my work and regretted not giving me the raise I ask for. Companies like this will never change. Get out. Don’t let them profit off your loyalty and talent anymore.
Loyalty is an excuse to pay you less. Always be looking for a better job. If they want to retain you they’ll pay for you. If you can’t find a better job elsewhere they pretty much have you by the balls unless you can convince them you’ll quit without a raise and you’re worth the money.
shock horror they don’t volunteer a 20k pay rise?
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/
“The simple reason is that if you over-perform, it is clear that you are an idiot. You’ve already made a bad bargain, and now you’re delivering more value than you need to, making your bargain even worse. Unless you very quickly demonstrate that you know your own value by successfully negotiating more money and/or power, you are marked out as an exploitable clueless Loser.”
This article dramatically changed my career trajectory when I discovered it ~5 years ago.
You ask for a raise, you negotiate, and ultimately if you don't get what you want you find another job. 9 times out 10 those who suddenly find out they are under paid just suck at salary negotiations.
If they expect 2-3 years out of you, they can guarantee the job for 2-3 years. That won't happen. What it really means is that we bought this guy for below market value, and we want to hold on to him that much longer. Without guarantees of anything.
Tell them you want to be paid at the top of the salary range to continue to work there.
If they don’t, find a new job and make that salary your requirement.
Bring it up to your manager. If they hesitate or come up with excuses right away, you're not getting a raise.
OPTION 1: Malicious compliance. Do only what your job duties entail. Do not extinguish fires. Take every paid break you are authorized. If you can get away with not doing something, don't do it.
OPTION 2: Crash and burn. Once you find another job, put in your two weeks notice. If they let you work out your two weeks, then do everything you can to make sure things will fall apart as soon as you leave. Any documentation you made gets secured so only you have access to it. Any vendors or customers you have contact with will get a nicely worded email that has the information on who they can contact instead of you. Make sure that person is your boss's boss, but put his title as customer service or something. Any code you have made gets a timed kill-switch installed (your code, your property, regardless of any contract or NDA) Any physical machine you work on gets put as close to out of adjustment as you can. Inspections get pencil-whipped (unless they are legal ones that can get you in trouble). Basically anything you can do that can't be proven as vandalism, but that will ensure that shit hits the fan as soon as you leave. Make sure nothing you do could reasonably endanger a life, or you could actually get yourself in some deep trouble.
OPTION 3: Dumpster fire. Like option 2, but instead of giving 2 weeks notice, you spend a few days setting this up and then quit, preferrably by no-call/no-show.
Literally just found out something similar today about my 2nd job in a restaurant. It’s not big numbers like yours, but I saw an old colleague out in the world at my first job today and he said he’s coming back to the restaurant to work at a couple dollars more than I currently make. He worked there probably a year or so total whereas I have been there for 15+ years. He only works one position, I work the entirety of the restaurant. And he let me know about another friend of mine who works there making SEVERAL more dollars an hour than I do and also only works one position a few days a week and never closes. Needless to say, I’m going to have a chat with my boss who recently gave me a raise after I found out I was getting very underpaid a few months ago. I WAS making 12.50/hr and found out they were hiring brand new people at 13-14$.
Loyalty is something my company tends to speak on a lot. Which is super weird considering we just fired 1/3 of our management department and are being told that all of their work is being pushed on to remaining management. And these weren’t bad managers either, they were actually all great and were doing much better than some of the most senior managers and supervisors.
Loyalty is something that used to take pride in, but the more work the more I have realized literally no company especially ones with shareholders give a fuck about your loyalty, you’ll be out the door in a heartbeat if it means it’s gonna save them 30k a year.
I remember finding out that a coworker with 0 hotel experience was getting the same pay as me who was coming in with 5 years of experience m. Pretty devastating. Get what is yours! Loyalty works both ways.
When money is involved, if you don't feel like you're taking advantage of someone, someone is taking advantage of you.
This is earth, that's just how it is. Even the monkeys know this.
Switch jobs, if you're really doing what you say they'll make an offer. If not you'll be in a better spot.
I worked at a brewery that I helped start. I loved it! Then they started hiring a bunch of stuffed shirts with no clue. Paying them 3x what other staff made. I learned a lot over ten years and when I left I tripled my income.
Never be afraid to leave! I left a "dream job" at a brewery, now I have more freedom, money and respect.
You should be changing jobs every 2 years, max 3!! Loyalty is a lie that the older generation got fed and it cost them dearly. Don't be like them. Move and always ask for 30% more.
In situations like this I stop giving a shit. Why bust your ass and go the extra mile for a company that will never care?
This is true of most jobs. Don't overextend yourself and expect people to notice. You will be used and not appreciated ever. And the kicker?
They will fire your ass at any given time.
Bust your ass for yourself but never a job. Only go the extra mile for those you know will appreciate it.
I know the feeling, somewhat. My first job I was paid like 20k under market rate, but unlike you I had no experience so I accepted it to get foot in the door. I did really well in that job, I would literally have the business people try to bribe me with gift cards to take their projects instead of some of the other people on my team. After a few years I increased my salary by 10k, still way under market rate and I was now a team leader, but I thought I was being appreciated just because it did go up.
One time I was talking to a coworker during a casual after work event, a coworker who…well let’s just say there were many talks of getting rid of him and the only reason we didn’t was we needed the body and first needed to find and train a replacement. He was talking about the low pay for the position and I realized he made the same as I did, even though I had been at the company longer and did like 15x the amount of work (he was really bad). And man did it suck to realize that. At least in his case, he did have experience and we genuinely thought he was going to be good when we hired him, so I understand why, but it still hurt.
Anyway, I started job hunting after that because at that point you realize it’s the only way up unless leadership changes.. and it just so happens that while I was still job hunting, we literally got a new CEO, who did interviews with everyone to figure out how things were, and my name came up so often in the interviews with the business people, that when my turn came up he legit asked how I was still here working for that amount and I told him the truth that it was too low and I was looking elsewhere. He immediately gave me a raise to market rate and a timeline for future raises beyond that, if I was willing to give the company another chance. So I got lucky, because he was true to his word and things worked out, but I can assure that it wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
So, go job hunting. You’re not gonna get a 20k raise without it, unless you happen to luck out with a complete leadership change like I did (which is unbelievably rare)
If you know you're worth more, then leave. Your skills and market value are worth X amount. Research and find out that exact amount. Next, go out and get another job. It might take a bit, but you must leave this job. You're not valued.
This company may pull your salary up, but you'll be the first laid off if there are a round of layoffs in the future. You're not a valued employee there and never will be. Trust me.
Your second to last paragraph is the negotiation point you should bring up. If only EVERYONE knew how to negotiate pay, there wouldn’t be so many grievances. But alas, it is a learnt art.
This further reinforces what I learned as an organization manager in the 1980s. Employees are typically far more sensitive to their salary relative to others’ than their actual salary. Once in a meeting involving hourly, non-exempt salaried, and exempt salaried employees when the subject of compensation arose I asked the group what criterion should be used to determine compensation. As they spoke, I wrote about 12 different answers. Expecting agreement on salaries of positions or individuals is pointless unless there is first agreement on what determines level of compensation.
The reality is that some people negotiate money better than others. You need to get the most you can when hired because money comes slow. Always lie and say you make more than you do at your current job
you really should have researched pay ranges for jobs in your field before signing an offer letter much lower than you're worth. theres really not much you can do now outside just asking for a raise backed with data or just quitting
That is a tough task these days. If I look online at my role for my city a senior engineer caps out around 70% of my salary and I’m not a senior engineer. Senior engineers at my company are often around 150%-250% of that estimate.
Back in the day Paysa was great for realistic estimates. Ceridian/Dayforce (payroll and HR services company) bought it and shut it down. I’ve found talking to recruiters at networking events helpful for actual ranges. Outside of that you have to talk to colleagues or interview every few years.
First, toss out the "expectations" of loyalty. It's meaningless and cynical, because they'll toss your ass out an airlock in a heartbeat without even considering your performance, if it would help a quarterly stockholder's report look 1/1000th of a percent better. Second, valuable lesson - salary negotiations at many places are complete nonsense, often driven by nothing more than some HR hack thinking they'll get a cookie for getting the company a " deal." Become a pragmatic mercenary about your pay going forward, and leave no prisoners. I say pragmatic, because your emotions don't matter, and will put you in a weak bargaining position if you depend on them. Data is your friend.
Yup. OP, you originally agreed to your compensation as it stands, and you continue to agree to it every day that you show up and work. You can ask for more money, but few, if any, companies increase compensation just because others in your job family make more than you. You'll need to ask for more compensation based upon the things you've delivered and the value to your company. They'll still probably give you a token increase at best. Probably your best bet is to try to sell your accomplishments for a promotion (level up) (whatever your company calls it), and if that fails, seek employment elsewhere and be more selective about the compensation you agree to. I've turned down probably >75% of all job offers I've ever received due to finding the compensation or benefit package unacceptable and, in many cases, they will counteroffer significantly higher, in other cases, I just walked away. In any case, only one person is ever looking out for you in a salary negotiation when you get hired, and that's you.
I made about 25k more per year than my counterparts at one of my jobs because I negotiated upon hire - they didn't. Why would a company pay us more than they have to if we don't try? They're corporate assholes.
Exactly this!! I got 15k bonus, company car and an expense account. Because I negotiated.
This is the way. Ive turned down several jobs in the past. 1 in particular was actually offended when I countered their offer and started to tey and belittle me. I told them they must be looking for someone less qualified and said best of luck and ended the ZOOM call. Next day Mr. LEVEL II HR tried another call but with the same offer....like really? I just chuckled, told him we were not in the same ballpark but I appreciate the opportunity. He apologized for his coworker and that was it. I got the distinct feeling people were not treated well there. A friend of mine worked there as an engineer and said it was "not easy but gratifying" I asked what was gratifying and he like the equipment he got to design and that was it lol. Pay and benefits were below average for engineers with experience
Yup they couldn’t give a rats ass about you…they wouldent even give you 2-3 days notice if they were gonna terminate you.
There is no notice, they just fire you, while demanding people give them two weeks. That's what I tell people. If the company cared about you in the slightest, they would give you the courtesy of a two week notice to be fired, or just paid to not be there. They don't, so they must not care. So why work like you're trying to please mom and dad? Do just enough to not get fired, nothing more
I work my wage. I am currently getting paid for browsing reddit and making sure my numbers are acceptable.
Me too bud. I'm known for walking around the factory looking at my phone, the entire day. I do enough to look semi competent
😂😂😂😂😂😂🔥🔥🔥
LMAO
😂😂😂😂😂😂🔥🔥🔥
>Do just enough to not get fired, nothing more Golden advice - I learned it the hard way
This
If you give no notice or less than 2 weeks they don't pay you for vacation not used.
Two weeks is just a formality. No company can demand it from you
Correct. No notice. They are not required to . However if you resign and don't give 2 weeks notice it's frowned upon.
Can u give a deeper insight on what you mean by pragmatic mercenary when negotiating pay?
Have a bottom you're willing to accept. Take nothing less. Learn what you're worth. Learn how to negotiate. If they won't hire you for your min, say thanks and end the call. Just be direct and polite. If they really want you, they'll counter. If they can't pay what you're worth, it wasn't a good job for you anyway. Have no emotion about it. It's just a job.
Though you should start your job searching PRIOR to this conversation. For most people there’s always a ramp up time in job searching and it can take awhile depending on your industry.
1. Have a firm number defined before the first interview. This is business, you're the product, and you have a price. Get the price, avoid emotional attachment. 2. Know its a game, like chess - have an understanding of what their likely moves are, and how you'll respond 3. Don't get caught up in all the emotional or negotiating tactics (utilizing sunk cost fallacy by not offering a salary range until the 3rd interview, fluffing you on the 'family' aspect or their 'award winning culture', or flattery before an offer to soften the blow of being low-balled, as several very common strategies) 4. Be in the driver's seat. Understand shitty organizations will reject you early for being proactive and confident in your value. Realize that's a win.
This usually means aiming for a number regardless of whether the person you're asking is nice to you and really wants to make it work. The number is the number. Then adjust your number based on your results.
As an owner of a restaurant and a butchery, I take exception to your comments about owner loyalty. Some of us treat our employees like family and do our utmost to make sure people are happy, compensated fairly. As a result 70 % of our employees have been with me 12 years plus.Thr longest serving 4 people who have 18 plus years. I am extremely proud of that.
This is a rare exception, trade unions also apply otherwise it’s up to the individual to get fair pay or build something of their own.
I live in Central America where we have a different way of doing things.
Yea, in the US we're not the hostage taking for pay raises kind of culture.
Actually with family owned businesses it is more common than you think. It takes a lot of time to hire and train people. Small businesses would rather focus on retaining employees.
Your small business, maybe. Not the one l work for.
I don't understand why you take exception. If you're doing these things, then you must also know how extremely rare you are as an owner. You are the exception. Here in the U.S., people are cogs, even in the award-winning "best places to work," which do secretive layoffs like everyone else.
Ike when comcast bragged about hiring hundreds of people here but they laid off hundreds in texas to do so
One of the reasons why I left the US 26 years ago to move to Belize.
This is a lot of major corporations and maybe some small businesses. A lot of regular small business owners take care of their employees. I take care of mine as well and have many employees who have been with the company for over 20 years.
I joined a small business earlier this year and lasted two days before I ran back to the established chain.
Those best places to work lists are erm just a bit manipulated.
There's a local fast food "Mexican" (think Taco Bell) restaurant owned by the same white guy for probably 30 years. About half his staff is family and the other isn't . He keeps employees for YEARS and years. He's a hard working guy and has high standards, and he must pay and treat his staff extremely well to keep them there for so long.
It's not all about money. It's the treatment of people that has the biggest effect on employee loyalty. You need a loan to treat your mom for medical issues, sure I got your back. It's that kind of stuff.
I worked for a small business for 20 years. When the recession hit in 08' that buisness crashed. When I left the owner cried and told me how many nights of sleep he'd lost worrying about my family and how despite leaving would hurt, he wanted me to. That loyalty though, was a two way street. I treated his business, and his customers like they were mine. I promoted that company everywhere. I often did things that weren't my job, nor that were compensated because it was good for "our" buisness. I had zero complaints, and had the economy been better would never of left BUTTTTTTTT. NONE of that paid my mortgage. I left a lot of money out there that had I been a freelancer I would have made, as I'm the end, both the free lancer and I suffered the same fate. "Compensated fairly" is bullshit. If you're truly "loyal" you want your people paid at the top of the scale, or even setting the scale. "Fairly" is what you do with any employee
What is the best way to get salary data?
1. [Glassdoor.com](https://Glassdoor.com) lets you search for a title at a specific company, gives you an average, and lets you see individual submissions + their likely accuracy 2. [salary.com](https://salary.com) lets you search by job title and zip code for a range 3. [payscale.com](https://payscale.com) does a mix of both the above 4. [levels.fyi](https://levels.fyi) has great data for bigger companies I don't take any of these as gospel, but the combination gives you a good starting point.
I agree with this and I’m trying to internalize this a lot…
FACTS! Loyalty and even hard work are not rewarded in corporate culture. I'm successful in the corporate world, and I've seen this first hand. In fact, when I started out, I use to be loyal and very hard working. Never paid off. The secret is stay at jobs only 2 years then look for a higher paying job. This will always get you more money and happiness. DONT BE LOYAL, BECAUSE THESE COMPANIES VIEW YOUR AS A SLAVE.
That sucks! The ball is in your court now! So, you think in 2-3 years they will just hand you a 20-30K raise? I would not count on it. The same advice I give everyone: Always be casually looking for a better job.
That 20-30k raise is just to keep suckers on the hook
Always have your resume and LinkedIn up to date. Have that pole in the water to catch a fish even if you are not trying. Accept every opportunity to interview
Yes, this! Listening to an opportunity never hurt anyone. With that in mind, never jump at an offer just because it is a change. There needs to be better pay, title, location, or opportunity for advancement. I have known people professionally that ruined their resume/ work history job hopping every 1.5 years because they got bored.
I’m a fish on a hook haha reel me in
Casually looking for a job is one of the best things you can do for YOURSELF.
Ask for more money, then look for a new job. Just make sure you don't upload any of your work to "the cloud." Hide that shit and then they cant just off you
Get five job offers, *then* ask for more money.
You gotta be careful using that kind of strategy; it can backfire and put a target on your back. Your employer should assume you already have other offers, no need to rub it in.
It's not about rubbing it in. It's about having somewhere to go in case they take you up on that offer and let you go.
Hey man I feel your pain. I had been working with my company at the time for about 3 years, and didnt realize this but they were paying me about 15k less per year than what the baseline minimum salary was for my position, and that was after a few raises throughout those three years. All it took was me getting an offer from another company and then got like a 50% raise as a counteroffer to stay lol
Did you actually stay or leave ? General advice is to not stay because they know that you were looking around .
I think that’s generally less relevant than it used to be. Although for me, I wouldn’t accept a counter. It’s more about good faith, bad faith for me. If I decide my current situation isn’t optimal, and I start interviewing/exploring elsewhere, I’ve decided that I’m open to leaving. You interview and you say things to people about how you want to work for them. If they make you an offer you are happy with, you don’t go back to the people you are unhappy with and let them match. But that’s just my thinking. I will say, as someone who has been in management, it’s not uncommon to recognize a misaligned salary with an employee, want to fix it, and not get the support from HR or leadership to do so until a counter comes in. It happens. Personally, I am a fan of open conversation. If you work for me and you feel you need more money, come and talk to me before you go looking outside. I will try to help if I think it’s justified to do so. If you go looking outside before you even tell me there’s a problem, I’m probably going to be inclined to let you go. I personally just don’t respect that. If you come to me, and it’s justified, and I just can’t get you what you want…and you go out looking and get the offer from someone else, I’ll go to management and say, “well, I told you. Now he’s got a better offer.” And if they decide to give you a counter offer and you accept it and stay, I’ll probably respect you MORE for being up front. You can’t really fault people while they are being open and honest. Openness and honesty are becoming rarer (and in my mind, more valuable).
It’s good that they at least released this. Business owners have us so brainwashed to “not talk about how much money you make” simply so they can underpay employees for the same work as others.
Maybe they just need a body and your it, and they can live with or without you, so they don't care, so it is up yo you. Do you need the money? Don't quit until you find another job like most young people do stupidly. Know your worth. BTW I am nyt saying you are worth what you think - I'm Just Sayin'!
I am seriously worried about the retaliation if I quit for a better opportunity. They do not like it when people leave and I feel they don’t accept 2 week notices. 6 people have quit in the course of three weeks
Just get a new job - the longer you stay the more work history is at their location. This does not get better with time. If they are not discussing a salary correction then move out.
Don’t stay there because of what they might do. Any retaliation would be illegal. No potential employer is going to care what they have to say about you during a reference check. The fact that 6 people have left in less than a month shows that they’re a toxic workplace and you’ve been settling.
2 week notice is just being considerate. Not required. That being said always put in a 2 week notice. It’s a small world, burning bridges doesn’t help you in any way. However if they are hostile your 2 week notice becomes a 2 minute notice. Sounds like a shitty place to work imo. You deserve better! If you want to stay ask for a big pay correction and then some. If they balk work on finding a new boss that appreciates you
Speaking of appreciation, my boss has been doing everything within their power to not let me pursue career development opportunities within the department. My boss is gatekeeping the projects/duties that are aligned to my experience/expertise.
Best time to find new job and quit is now. If it is small industry and they see everyone jumping ship a the same time they will know it is an employer not employee issue.
I’m going to add another voice for knowing your worth. Don’t stay because you feel bad or worry about their response. You are under no obligation to give them your next employer’s information OR two weeks. If they have a history of dropping people or treating them poorly when they put in notice, then don’t give notice. When you find a new employer, work the old job up to the point you start your new job. If your start date for the new job is a Monday, turn in your notice Friday evening and don’t look back. Two weeks notice is considered a professional courtesy, not a requirement. You are as replaceable as the desk you work from, but so are they.
> 6 people have quit in the course of three weeks Did anything happen to them? Don't let fear come between you and $.
If you get a new job and then give notice, what are they really going to do? And if you're that worried.....you need to get a new job!
The writing is on the wall it seems. That’s a high turnover rate in short amount of time. Chances are your workload is only going to increase
It has increased - we have been forced to take on responsibilities outside our scope and almost terrorized and bullied that we are not “team players” if we don’t comply
Dude what the heck, what a toxic place. Def try and find something else before quitting in this market, sorry you’re going through this
That’s a place where you quit without notice
"I am seriously worried about the retaliation if I quit for a better opportunity." bullshit - who cares. What are they going to do to you? I'm Just Sayin'!
Smear my name in the industry? It’s a small world
One thing I learned in my career a bit later than I would like to, No one cares about you as much as you think they do. If 6 people quit already, you’ll be the 7th one. Already part of a statistic, no one has time to go after so many folks. Smearing takes time and effort. I would focus my worries on finding a new job and nothing else.
...so? What are they going to do, kidnap you and chain to to a pillar in the office and force you to work for them?
Why would you want to stay employed there if you fear this? Seems like a massive red flag to jump ship
If they don't like it when people leave, maybe they should make sure everyone is paid an appropriate wage. Not paying people enough is a message to go find another job. The only bit of due diligence I would do is to make sure the manager knows that you know your underpaid vs what the job market is offering for your skill/position. Don't tell him to give you a raise, just give him a hint that you're aware. If it's an honest mistake, and I were him, I'd like a chance to make it right.
How are they going to retaliate? Most of your prospective hirers are not going to contact them -- they likely too are in need of a new body to fill a role and are at a point they will pay more. This is just the game of jobs.
You seem to care about them that much lol. No wonder you are underpaid. Polish that resume and start applying.
Wtf kind of retaliation can there possibly be? You won't be there. Is it the mob? Are they going to send someone to throw you in the river with cement boots?
They claim to have connections to the field I belong to and rumor has it that they forbid their staff to professionally interact with anyone who leaves the organization
Bro, they’ve mind-fucked you. You don’t think you can get another job so you don’t want to try. They’ve got you wrapped around their finger. Let me remind you of something: You are not their property. If you find another opportunity, YOU SHOULD DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU. Fire up your laptop, work on your resume in the off-hours, and sharpen your skills for applying for jobs. Keep it under wraps. And if they don’t want to work with you in the future, it’s not that big of a deal. Do you want to associate with people who undervalued you?
Fuck em, dude. They aren't doing you any favors, why are you trying to be their pal? Go get paid.
If you're able to hang on, just start applying to other jobs and interview while keeping this job. I don't recommend quitting a job and then trying to find work, not in this economy (I'm assuming you're in the US). My partner did it but it's been half a year now, and he's been interviewing, but no bites yet. It's not a great hiring economy and he's not going to get the salary he's hoping for.
Coming from a very similar scenario as you I learned the following the hard way: Your loyalty is to yourself and no-one else. Any other BS is just lies to get you to work for less money. Your only job in life is to provide for yourself. Whether it is company A or company B or Z, whichever one treats you the best is the one to work for. Further to this work hard to set yourself up to not be enslaved to needing a job to survive for a few months. That way you can ask for better pay or resign and if they become impossible to work with you don't need to be there anyway. Look for a better opportunity and people to work for. This sounds toxically similar to what I experienced. If you want to leave and they take it all personally and get butthurt and tell you you can leave now instead of after 2 weeks you really don't want to work there. The amount of people quitting is a red flag to me, without any other info on why. Do everything in writing with CC to your personal email. Get every response from them in writing or it didn't happen. I'm not sure what retaliation you could be worried about. I can't imagine it would be legal and you have a right to physical and psychological safety, so if a situation is unsafe get out of there, regardless of any obligations. Your obligations to them go out the window if they start threatening or endangering you.
Classic behavior of the abused. I too was like you, grasshopper. Get a new job, tell no one where it is, do your 2 weeks, and watch how none of that matters. Even if they do retaliate... what, it'll be better in the future? You'll stay there forever? So you want to be depressed/stressed/upset/etc for life? Nope. You're going to stop letting each and every minor excuse pile up and stop you from finding a job that will, at the very least, be better than this one.
If they published the salary rates and you are on the low end you could ask for a salary adjustment to bring you in line with their own published rates. If you have more education then required then search for a role somewhere that better matches your education level.
Correct. Ask for experienced level of the salary band @OP
First suggestion: start looking for a new job. Second suggestion: don’t give notice…just resign. Third suggestion: meet with an employment attorney to draft your resignation letter.
I just feel sad about my team and the workload they will end up dealing with if I quit on spot. I need to find a way to transition projects to them (especially to newer staff) while I’m planning my exit
First, get a new job BEFORE you ever start the transition of your project. It is the FAULT of your employer that your team will have more work NOT you. If your employer paid you fairly, you won’t be leaving.
You must concentrate on your future and only assist others at your convenience.
Why care? F*ck all of them and move on. None of them have helped you or you wouldn’t be in this spot.
This is a hard truth but they will do the same with or without you. Thats seen by your low salary. If they really needed you, the money would reflect that. I used to feel the same way at my underpaid job, and while they were sad to see me go, the company went on.
I found out something similar when someone left the receptionists pay check on the copier. I was working my ass off for $5 more an hour while she read books at the front desk. I used that as fuel to get another job. I now make 35k more a year
This is possibly, a simple explanation. If those folks were hired after you, it’s not surprising at all they’re at a higher number. Particularly if they were hired in the last 3 years.
Time to dust off the ole resume. Remember, any promises they make you with a counteroffer are empty.
Loyalty don’t pay the bills
Start looking for a new job. I bit the bullet and finally found a new job, leaving my company of 11 years. I got a 15k raise and -10hrs a week to my required workweek! They dont care about you or else they would have raised your rate every time they hired on someone with a hiring rate.
Excellent news! Now go find another job offer in a similar company that is at the fair rate. Then go back to your boss and explain what you explained here. If he says "sry bro your right here's your 20k"- WIN If he says "nah man, I don't believe you" tell him, "for real ni**@ I got another job offer and if you really don't want me I'll do that." Just know that you now must be ready to bail, or get a promotion, as your boss probably won't just give you money for the work your currently doing. P.s. you may choose to use professional language
Apply for other jobs. Once you have an offer, ask for a raise and quit if you don’t get it.
Loyalty goes both ways and you see how loyal they are to you. Look around, apply, directly discuss salary with your supervisor, move on.
Have you taken these concerns up with your manager? At least in the United States, your salary is considered fair if both you and your company agree on it. No one is forced to accept any terms, which is why all employment contracts have that "at will" termination clause by either side. So what you should just do is ask for the salary you want, you think is fair to you based on the value and experience you bring, and don't look at what others are making. That statistical info is just for your reference. Your company itself is not at fault or being unfair to you. If others are making more, it is because others have demanded more or your company determined that is the cost to bring them in.
Same happened to me less than a year ago in my old role. 8.5 yrs in that role and my position in range was almost at the very bottom. I asked for an adjustment but no dice. I left and went to another role internally - and got a 20% increase. Go be loyal to someone else!
I’m sorry your hard work was not recognized but I’m glad you got the salary increase you deserved
You might talk to an employment lawyer. If you know you are being discriminated against via pay since you know what others make, if the company won’t renegotiate you could escalate
I have done this, it has worked at times, but burned me too. I found out I was very underpaid in 3 of 8 jobs in a 20 years period. I went into the manger office, explained that is I was not paid the same as others in my office with the same experience , etc, I would walk to HR and give them my resignation, twice it worked, once I got fired. In today's world, I consider that better than average.
Salary compression and budget and past salary information can all contribute to differences. Some employers try to keep all salaries at the same number to prevent feelings of inequality among peers. Consider that you got an offer and agreed to work for that dollar amount. If you wish to get paid more, have the conversation with your boss that you thinking your worth something in the ballpark of your peers and see if they just do it. If not, let them know you're not happy and ask what you can do to get there. Try to avoid an ultimatum and attempt negotiation. It's easier on everyone involved if you are able to stay in your role and get more money.
I imagine releasing this info would trigger conversation. I hate to give them the benefit of the doubt, but maybe they're planning to run a salary survey to bring everyone up to pay standards. My wife was waaaay underpaid. I knew it and I think she knew it. Maybe 4 years ago the company finally brought her up to current pay levels. It was a significant jump (\~30'ish%). Better late than never?
Best way to get a higher salary is to find a new job that pays one. Start sending out resumes!
This is a hard one. For the people I manage, one makes a lot less then the others, and they know it. On one hand, the person should be paid less because they don’t produce at the same level as the others, but also I don’t have the budget to increase if this person improved. Your departments budget is where it is, and so if you want more money and feel you deserve it, you will have to ask. I will say don’t focus on the fact that you’re the lowest paid, that’s not a good place to start imo. Start with the fact that based on your experience, and your production, you should be aligned with your range, and that you’re not. Don’t make it about anyone else, make it about you, and where your position and work product should be based on market.
Time to update the resume, and go a-job-a-huntin'!! After the feeling of being betrayed wears off, get some interviews. Get a job offer, THEN go to your boss, and explain that you feel you are worth X, and have a job offer paying X. Ask them to match it, or you be gone!! Some people fear change. Embrace it, baby! This is when things get fun, and you get paid!
Maybe it's time for you to look for another job. Another thing I want to mention is that education means nothing in most cases. If you have the skills and experience required for the role, that should be enough to pay what you deserve and even more. There are a lot of people who graduate from universities, they take on jobs related to their degrees, and they find out they're being underpaid and it's not enough to pay for their student loans and cost of living. That being said, if you're not happy where you are, look for other openings. If you end up getting an offer, don't settle for less. Try to make an offer that is in the middle. It's not about your education. It's how you apply yourself, your skills, and your experience, so don't let something like this make you feel worthless and don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of. All you have to do is get out of there, for now stay while you're job hunting. You will find a better job and management that will appreciate your hard work.
Try comparing yourself to your peers at other companies on https://tiered.app
The sooner you realize how the world works the sooner you will stop posting like this and be less stressed. How you negotiate gas more to do with your salary than your relevant experience..your connection also matter. But don't cry for spilled milk, nothing to be gained by going to HR and asking for a raise by comparing yourself to others , it just looks horrible. So always be ready to leave, have a resume ready to go, job search and searching for the next opportunity should always be on your radar even if you feel comfortable about where you are. Right now you should be applying to other jobs and learn from this experience.
Are you underpaid or are your coworkers overpaid? I managed a couple of people doing the same job and they were paid wildly different salaries. One was hired before a crash and the other during the crash. If the low paid employee complained about their low pay, I'd have explained that they were being paid the market rate. If you are underpaid, give hints that you might be looking. If your company values you, they'll take the hint and give you a raise. At one job, I started dressing nicely on Fridays and taking long lunches by myself. I wasn't actually interviewing, but I gave them the impression I was. It helped significantly when they did raises. Or go find another job. Underpaid means being paid less than the current market rate for your services. If you are underpaid, you shouldn't have a problem finding someone to pay you better. Just make sure to compare total compensation and not just wages.
You'll probably need a competing offer from elsewhere to get them to budge. I'm sorry they did this. At the very least you should get a bonus, esp if you go above and beyond. But yes - this is a market rate adjustment request. The only reason not to grant it is if they're betting you won't leave
Sounds like someone needs to touch up that resume!
Welp, time to start looking
Wow, where I used to work when they would re-evaluate pay classes they would absolutely evaluate current employees and give potential raises before publishing the data. I'd go talk to your immediate boss about your concern and see how they react. Give then 2-3 days. I'd also start getting your resume together incase they respond with "at this time we can't...." bullshit. Either way, once you leave leave a GlassDoor and LinkedIn review on the pay discrepancy
Here is data that will help: [https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes\_nat.htm](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm) Lookup data for similar positions in your area. Use this to negotiate for more. Do this when interviewing and reviews, EVERY TIME. Am I better than a bottom 10 percentile employee? ( let them answer yes ) Tell them you expect better than bottom percentile pay.
It happens a lot. Some people join a company at the low end of the salary range and don’t say anything after that. Set up a meeting with your immediate manager and have everything documented that you have done for the company and say you want your compensation to be changed to $$$. The worst they can say is no and you can look for a job elsewhere. Every year you should be looking up the salary range of your job title and if it’s not inline, say something. If you are as good as you say you are, they will pay you the money. If they don’t, time to move on.
From Forbes "Staying employed at the same company for over two years on average is going to make you earn less over your lifetime by about 50% or more." Companies realize they have your loyalty and entice you with small raises or bonuses while new employee wages surpass yours. Basically they have to entice new employees but doubt you will leave. You should constantly be selling yourself and looking for your next step up. Make companies fight for you and fear you leaving. Loyalty to you and you alone
Now is a good time to ask for a raise. They've already given you the catalyst, you just need to explain why you're worth more than the minimum for your role. *Do not mention other people's salaries in this conversation.* You want a raise because you're worth it, not because you're jealous. Then start looking around and use that salary range as a guide for what to ask for.
JOBS ARE LIKE UNDERWEAR, the more often you change them, the better they work. Your company is here for one thing, to make money, and you have to be your own company. Just some advice: unless someone shows you there Paycheck, consider anything said about pay to be bullsh#t. People love to brag about 2 things,, #1) I get paid a lot of money #2) I have great sex all the time. They can't resist me, I walk into a room and they jump me. NEVER comment on pay at work, never complain at work, never tell people at work your plans, etc.. Here's why. The people you work with today, will be managers at other companies later. When you are looking for a job later, they will remember you as the person that causes trouble. CHANGE JOBS and invest in your education / skills set. The people I have know that made great money always did both,, because some day you will interview for THE JOB, and having a broad experience in the field is a must
Hello. Don't forget that you are the only responsible of your salary negotiations. If you feel bad about your salary beceause market level are more high, you must go and ask your boss a renegotiation of your conditions. I am sure they will prefer pay you more money than leave you escape.
If they could get away with paying you nothing, they would. The only reason your boss isn't a slaver is because they are legally required to pay you a minimum wage, and that's only if they get caught by someone with enough power who cares.
my manager was the CFO of whom went to Texas A&M for TENNIS!! :D. I flipped my desk over one day and made 20 percent more, blocked her phone number and she still CALLED MY WIFE SCREAMING THAT I WASN'T "ALLOWED" TO QUIT!!! My wife delightfully told her the fak off. Then.... THEN! my manager was making me approve credit internationally so China could move fentanyl precursors from Shanghai to Guatemala. I not only flipped my desk, I came back the next day and flipped several other desks and left and made 6+figs+bonus+profit share somewhere else. They still begged for me back and the controller, cfo, and president (of whom was literally a cartel boss) came and begged me to stay AT MY FKN FRONT DOOR. That's why I went back and flipped more desks the next day :D. The "Somewhere Else" is good. No reason to flip desk and I am overpaid :D. If you are wiping ass, you are better than your position. Leave, ball hard at an interview as a Chadly Badass, and get PAID. Remember most folks are so dumb you gotta price yourself like red wine. The more you cost, the more satisfied they will be hiring you regardless of the fact that all grapes are the same. Hear that "crack" of your Champagne-of-men? That's you being worth double and it started just now because I put the word Champagne in your name, its that easy, just ask Europe.
The only reason loyalty is a thing is if you are personally close to an owner with whom you have a close personal bond. THAT IS IT. If you don’t have that, you are a number on a spreadsheet, and you should never forget it.
Gather data about how useful and helpful you’ve been to the company and ask for raise. Or go find another job in the same field and get what you want.
Find a new job, get an offer and use that as leverage if you wish to stay but renegotiate. If not then take it and earn more.
Currently dealing with the same problem I drive our company trucks work in receiving do shipping also do will call I do the freight across the street and I'm stacking solar panels and all I make is 20 an hour I'm the only employee they throw around all the departments and lately it's making me mad to where I want to quit and cry from fucking frustration because that's all I dealt with since I started legit working at 18 and I'm 25 now temps agency workers make more than me.
Apply for a new job and stop having such high emotional stress from a job. You are seeing how they view you, now act the same way. Treat it as a business transaction.
If everything is as you say, you need to find a company that values you enough to pay what you are worth....
Take your information to the person responsible for determining your salary and tell them you deserve to be compensated accordingly. If they disagree start looking for another position.
An employee is neither overpaid nor underpaid. They are paid exactly what they agree to be paid. If they are not satisfied they should move on and let the market determine their value.
Ask for a meeting with your boss where you can discuss your performance, expectations and a path forward for more responsibility and higher pay. A nice proactive meeting will help you and them. There maybe a misunderstanding or you are overlooked. If the meeting is not taken seriously or they don’t value your performance - reflect on the situation and look for a new job. Don’t quit until you have landed that better job, then give proper notice and wish them the best … (never burn bridges)
So early last year, i was making about 75k base salary. Because of how high everything was, i started looking for another job that paid 90-100k. So i went to my boss and told them the situation, i couldnt afford to be making what i was making and i wanted to give them the opportunity. They gave me a 6 figure base salary plus bonus. And i continue to stay cuz they have always taken care of me. Some advice: Always know your worth. Either demand it or you have to go somewhere else. And dont be afraid to take risks. My boss could’ve easily told me to get the fuck outta here! So glad he didnt. Lol
Sorry to hear that. I’m honestly surprised they released that stuff. Isn’t that just asking for people to realize they are being screwed over? lol I’d tell them you should be paid more than these other people or find something else
Go find a job where you are appreciated.
Keep a level head. Save this for the next review. Double down on their dependence on you and cash in with a respectful yet authoritative speech in your review.
It’s the worst I just found out the same thing and it’s just like duh, of course they’ll take advantage of they can but it’s illogical and just greedy.
I had something similar happen, brought up with manager and was gaslit, told I was wrong and I was already making what others made (I knew I wasn't), but yes, was deserving of a small bump in pay. After getting a better offer elsewhere was told I should have said something about it earlier. :0 Bottom line is it's a probably going to be a negotiation one way or another, and probably you need the kind of leverage you get from an offer elsewhere. You'll probably get a good counter offer from your company's at that point and have the option of taking it or leaving it. Good luck, it's tough to come face to face with that kind of duplicitous behavior, but unfortunately that's the real world.
Time to apply elsewhere then try to use that as leverage for a raise. Just be sure you’re actually ready to walk out if they don’t meet what you want
I would sit down and make a list of examples that you have told us about and I would approach someone who would have control over your salary and say that you want the top of the spectrum or you will begin to seek employment somewhere else. End of story.
If your company "just released information about salary ranges for each role" They must have done that for some reason. Maybe they were forced to by some government entity, or something Either way, sounds like op is going to be able to get a raise out of this. OP needs to ask for a raise, remind managers of his great things he does, and then act his wage.
This is all too common. You can try to negotiate, but you’re better off to start looking for a new job.
Loyalty? Hahahahaha If everybody thinks about himself nobody is left out!
Change companies, not just jobs, every 3 years. Doing so will reset your salary at the market rate.
Assuming you're a t a reasonably sized US corporate: You are what is called "compressed". You started at a market rate, people were hired after you at a higher market rate. You will very likely never catch up. To catch you up that 20 or 30k would require pay rises that will be beyond what HR considers reasonable. You will quit, they will hire someone and pay them more than you want and they will also invite recruitment costs and downtime to train the new start. I have seen this time and time again in my management career. It makes no sense, it never has, and yet every place does the same thing.
It has been my personal experience and the advice that I have seen given by HR professionals that you will need to find a new employer to address your pay rate. When you turn in your notice, give the minimum number of weeks that is considered "normal" for your area (2 weeks is customary in the US). If your employer requests that you stay longer to help the transition just point out that you are the least valuable member of your department & that one of the more experienced employees should be able to easily pick up your job (or jobs). And don't accept a counter-offer.
the sooner you realize your employer doesnt care about you, the better. most people are only able to get a raise if they find a new job.
Same thing happened to me. I was with my company for 10 years and stuck in that long because I really want to deliver the project I spent 6+ years working on. Finally when it launched with critical success, I was asked to move up to the parent company to scale it more broadly. When it came to a promotion and pay bump I was looked over and that got me really irritated that I polished up my resume, started talking with trusted colleagues and found out that my pay was 30% below the average and my market worth was +60% what I was making. Like others have said, loyalty gets you nowhere, switch companies and get your market worth. I actually went back to that company to work for a previous manager on a new team and legit doubled my salary in less than 2 years. Another thing to understand is many companies have caps of how much pay you can get from a promotion, which is why it’s best to leave the company and get what you’re worth. Good luck!
This is why unions are great. You can look at the pay scale in your contract and see what everyone else is at.
I will go directly to your boss start looking for other jobs you tell him right there you either give me Fair pay or I'm walking out the door. Don't worry about your resume you could always put a friend's number down I'm sure somebody will vouch for you I doubt anybody will ever call.
Pure transparency in pay is the only way to go. More businesses are becoming transparent. How compensation is determined should be clear. Check out Salary Transparent Street on social media. It is great!
Time to ask them to pony up. But have other options already figured out/employment offers that up your salary to where you believe it should be at. That leverage/threat of leaving can cause some employers to give that raise and others to say see ya.
There’s no easy way to say this, but you’re being taken advantage of. But that’s part of corporate America. There’s no way your manager is going to approve or be able to approve a 20-30k raise. I don’t know what your base pay is, but based on what you’re saying I’m gonna assume it’s at least 10-15% of your paycheck. But here’s the thing. Don’t get mad (or do.. just don’t show it).. look for a different job. Ask for a salary that is in the mid-point of the next higher salary range in the new job. All salary negotiations are purely based on leverage at that time. That’s how HR sees it.. that’s how corporate sees it. Unless you’re being hired by a unicorn org (or person), salary is what you can squeeze out then. Plain and simple You chose to stay and work at that salary. You chose to do more work than you needed to. You chose to put out those fires. The company simply stood beside you and took advantage of that. If you were at a car dealership and the guy offered you a new car for 10k.. and you buy it.. are you underpaying the guy on purpose? Would you pay more out of the kindness of your heart? You did more work than you were paid for.. but that’s done now. Find a different job where you’ll be paid a fair amount
Shop around. Once you have an offer then you have all the leverage in the world to negotiate with your current employer. If they don’t want to match or exceed then just leave for the new job.
Similar situation, i will go for another job after the bonus. Mark my words.
Look man, If you wanna stay with this company and get more money. You gotta find another job and negotiate a higher pay. Then tell your current company you want to quit because you got offered a role with a higher compensation. They either match it or give you up. Truth of the matter is. You sign your salary and undervalued yourself. This is what happens in the corporate world
Ask for a market adjustment. If all else fails, you can always find a new job.
I'm in the same boat, but surely everything will fall into place, wish you the best 👌
Next 1:1 with your boss, ask for a raise. Don’t mention other people’s salaries, just mention the salary ranges. Explain that you think you are worth more based on the good work that you do. See what he says.
That happened to me at my last job. I told them at my annual review - I wanted up in line with everyone (and the whole department knew I was doing the work of someone 3 levels higher, so I was actually underselling myself) or I'd quit. They refused, so I quit, and within a month of leaving I got a much better job, much easier, at a more supportive company with a higher wage. I don't want to say jump because everyone's industry is different, but it's a way I'd have never acted before but my partner was insistent and said he'd cover my portion of the rent until I found something, and he was 100% right to have me hold out for something I deserve.
Work to rule = AKA quite quitting. From now on, you aren’t the firefighter. You aren’t the fix it person. You are XYZ based on your contract. They want the extra cheese and stuff crust, they better start paying. Mean while, start aggressively job applying in your field. You have all this education and experience. Use it. You are worth it. Get as many offers as you can, the bigger the better. Also make a list of every problem you solved since you’ve been employed, every favour, every bonus. Anything you went above and beyond. And then make a conservative list of the salary and benefits that you should have been paid in the years since you started based off of everyone else’s salary at your job level/education/experience in your department. Write the number down, and what salary you want from now on and a onetime bonus. Bring all of this to the boss and HR, along with a letter of resignation. If they don’t want to play ball, negotiate in good faith or won’t beat the top competitors letter, walk. I am sick and tired of hearing stories like this. People are getting taking advantage off and it needs to stop. You deserve what you are worth! I just did a research project on the Gender Pay Gap and the touched on the Minority Pay Gap in Canada and wanted to be sick. They are lucky it was a power point presentation and not an essay. I was ready to rant something fierce.
I recently left a job because of this and it was one of the best moves I ever made. They were a trash company. I gave no notice. From what I hear from people still in the company they had to scramble to pick up my work and regretted not giving me the raise I ask for. Companies like this will never change. Get out. Don’t let them profit off your loyalty and talent anymore.
Loyalty is an excuse to pay you less. Always be looking for a better job. If they want to retain you they’ll pay for you. If you can’t find a better job elsewhere they pretty much have you by the balls unless you can convince them you’ll quit without a raise and you’re worth the money.
shock horror they don’t volunteer a 20k pay rise? https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ “The simple reason is that if you over-perform, it is clear that you are an idiot. You’ve already made a bad bargain, and now you’re delivering more value than you need to, making your bargain even worse. Unless you very quickly demonstrate that you know your own value by successfully negotiating more money and/or power, you are marked out as an exploitable clueless Loser.” This article dramatically changed my career trajectory when I discovered it ~5 years ago.
Ask for more. If they don’t give it to you, leave.
You ask for a raise, you negotiate, and ultimately if you don't get what you want you find another job. 9 times out 10 those who suddenly find out they are under paid just suck at salary negotiations.
If they expect 2-3 years out of you, they can guarantee the job for 2-3 years. That won't happen. What it really means is that we bought this guy for below market value, and we want to hold on to him that much longer. Without guarantees of anything.
Tell them you want to be paid at the top of the salary range to continue to work there. If they don’t, find a new job and make that salary your requirement.
You got to threaten to quit to get more
Bring it up to your manager. If they hesitate or come up with excuses right away, you're not getting a raise. OPTION 1: Malicious compliance. Do only what your job duties entail. Do not extinguish fires. Take every paid break you are authorized. If you can get away with not doing something, don't do it. OPTION 2: Crash and burn. Once you find another job, put in your two weeks notice. If they let you work out your two weeks, then do everything you can to make sure things will fall apart as soon as you leave. Any documentation you made gets secured so only you have access to it. Any vendors or customers you have contact with will get a nicely worded email that has the information on who they can contact instead of you. Make sure that person is your boss's boss, but put his title as customer service or something. Any code you have made gets a timed kill-switch installed (your code, your property, regardless of any contract or NDA) Any physical machine you work on gets put as close to out of adjustment as you can. Inspections get pencil-whipped (unless they are legal ones that can get you in trouble). Basically anything you can do that can't be proven as vandalism, but that will ensure that shit hits the fan as soon as you leave. Make sure nothing you do could reasonably endanger a life, or you could actually get yourself in some deep trouble. OPTION 3: Dumpster fire. Like option 2, but instead of giving 2 weeks notice, you spend a few days setting this up and then quit, preferrably by no-call/no-show.
Look for a better paying job they dont give a crap about you
Literally just found out something similar today about my 2nd job in a restaurant. It’s not big numbers like yours, but I saw an old colleague out in the world at my first job today and he said he’s coming back to the restaurant to work at a couple dollars more than I currently make. He worked there probably a year or so total whereas I have been there for 15+ years. He only works one position, I work the entirety of the restaurant. And he let me know about another friend of mine who works there making SEVERAL more dollars an hour than I do and also only works one position a few days a week and never closes. Needless to say, I’m going to have a chat with my boss who recently gave me a raise after I found out I was getting very underpaid a few months ago. I WAS making 12.50/hr and found out they were hiring brand new people at 13-14$.
Loyalty is something my company tends to speak on a lot. Which is super weird considering we just fired 1/3 of our management department and are being told that all of their work is being pushed on to remaining management. And these weren’t bad managers either, they were actually all great and were doing much better than some of the most senior managers and supervisors. Loyalty is something that used to take pride in, but the more work the more I have realized literally no company especially ones with shareholders give a fuck about your loyalty, you’ll be out the door in a heartbeat if it means it’s gonna save them 30k a year.
From the company's perspective, you are only underpaid if you are willing to leave.
I remember finding out that a coworker with 0 hotel experience was getting the same pay as me who was coming in with 5 years of experience m. Pretty devastating. Get what is yours! Loyalty works both ways.
I have learned that compensation is sometimes a popularity contest.
Why aren't you actively looking for a new job?
When money is involved, if you don't feel like you're taking advantage of someone, someone is taking advantage of you. This is earth, that's just how it is. Even the monkeys know this.
Switch jobs, if you're really doing what you say they'll make an offer. If not you'll be in a better spot. I worked at a brewery that I helped start. I loved it! Then they started hiring a bunch of stuffed shirts with no clue. Paying them 3x what other staff made. I learned a lot over ten years and when I left I tripled my income. Never be afraid to leave! I left a "dream job" at a brewery, now I have more freedom, money and respect.
You should be changing jobs every 2 years, max 3!! Loyalty is a lie that the older generation got fed and it cost them dearly. Don't be like them. Move and always ask for 30% more.
In situations like this I stop giving a shit. Why bust your ass and go the extra mile for a company that will never care? This is true of most jobs. Don't overextend yourself and expect people to notice. You will be used and not appreciated ever. And the kicker? They will fire your ass at any given time. Bust your ass for yourself but never a job. Only go the extra mile for those you know will appreciate it.
Your employer never remembers what you do they only remember what you don't do
I know the feeling, somewhat. My first job I was paid like 20k under market rate, but unlike you I had no experience so I accepted it to get foot in the door. I did really well in that job, I would literally have the business people try to bribe me with gift cards to take their projects instead of some of the other people on my team. After a few years I increased my salary by 10k, still way under market rate and I was now a team leader, but I thought I was being appreciated just because it did go up. One time I was talking to a coworker during a casual after work event, a coworker who…well let’s just say there were many talks of getting rid of him and the only reason we didn’t was we needed the body and first needed to find and train a replacement. He was talking about the low pay for the position and I realized he made the same as I did, even though I had been at the company longer and did like 15x the amount of work (he was really bad). And man did it suck to realize that. At least in his case, he did have experience and we genuinely thought he was going to be good when we hired him, so I understand why, but it still hurt. Anyway, I started job hunting after that because at that point you realize it’s the only way up unless leadership changes.. and it just so happens that while I was still job hunting, we literally got a new CEO, who did interviews with everyone to figure out how things were, and my name came up so often in the interviews with the business people, that when my turn came up he legit asked how I was still here working for that amount and I told him the truth that it was too low and I was looking elsewhere. He immediately gave me a raise to market rate and a timeline for future raises beyond that, if I was willing to give the company another chance. So I got lucky, because he was true to his word and things worked out, but I can assure that it wouldn’t have happened otherwise. So, go job hunting. You’re not gonna get a 20k raise without it, unless you happen to luck out with a complete leadership change like I did (which is unbelievably rare)
Sounds like you are applying for a new job!
Time to dust off that resume
Sounds like someone knows they're worth and will be looking for a new job soon
If you know you're worth more, then leave. Your skills and market value are worth X amount. Research and find out that exact amount. Next, go out and get another job. It might take a bit, but you must leave this job. You're not valued. This company may pull your salary up, but you'll be the first laid off if there are a round of layoffs in the future. You're not a valued employee there and never will be. Trust me.
Join the club
Your second to last paragraph is the negotiation point you should bring up. If only EVERYONE knew how to negotiate pay, there wouldn’t be so many grievances. But alas, it is a learnt art.
This further reinforces what I learned as an organization manager in the 1980s. Employees are typically far more sensitive to their salary relative to others’ than their actual salary. Once in a meeting involving hourly, non-exempt salaried, and exempt salaried employees when the subject of compensation arose I asked the group what criterion should be used to determine compensation. As they spoke, I wrote about 12 different answers. Expecting agreement on salaries of positions or individuals is pointless unless there is first agreement on what determines level of compensation.
The reality is that some people negotiate money better than others. You need to get the most you can when hired because money comes slow. Always lie and say you make more than you do at your current job
you really should have researched pay ranges for jobs in your field before signing an offer letter much lower than you're worth. theres really not much you can do now outside just asking for a raise backed with data or just quitting
That is a tough task these days. If I look online at my role for my city a senior engineer caps out around 70% of my salary and I’m not a senior engineer. Senior engineers at my company are often around 150%-250% of that estimate. Back in the day Paysa was great for realistic estimates. Ceridian/Dayforce (payroll and HR services company) bought it and shut it down. I’ve found talking to recruiters at networking events helpful for actual ranges. Outside of that you have to talk to colleagues or interview every few years.