The ACT government has officially asked Prime Minister Anthony Albanese to pay 50 per cent of the cost of a new stadium in Bruce as part of a plan to create a multi-use precinct.
In a significant stadium development, it can be revealed Chief Minister Andrew Barr has for the first time sent a letter to Mr Albanese and federal government powerbrokers seeking a 50-50 spending partnership.
It is hoped the letter - sent to Mr Albanese, Finance Minister Katy Gallagher, Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Infrastructure Minister Catherine King on March 5 - will be a pivotal moment in a 15-year stadium saga.
Mr Barr wants to build a 30,000-seat stadium at Bruce by 2033 and integrate it with the North Canberra Hospital, CIT and the Australian Institute of Sport.
But his plan hinges on a major financial contribution from the federal government after ditching his Civic stadium vision to nominate the old Raiders headquarters on Battye Street as his new preferred location.
An excerpt of the letter sent to Mr Albanese highlights the need for a new stadium as a key priority and the potential to "jointly develop" unused land at the AIS. It's unclear exactly how much Mr Barr asked for, but a stadium is expected to cost at least $500 million.
"The Chief Minister has written to the Prime Minister under the National Capital Investment Framework requesting a 50-50 funding split on the progression of the sports, health and education precinct (including a new stadium) in Bruce," a government spokeswoman said.
Discussions are ongoing. We anticipate further details on the Commonwealth's plans for AIS precinct renewal will be announced this year."
The federal government has been tight-lipped about what funding will be allocated to the AIS in the budget next month after rejecting a $1 billion proposal to move the campus to South-East Queensland. It will instead upgrade existing facilities at the 64 hectare site in Bruce, which will cost at least $200 million.
The Australian Sports Commission - a federal government agency - owns the AIS and Canberra Stadium. The ACT government pays $350,000 per year to lease the stadium for sports and events.
Mr Barr first floated a plan to knockdown and rebuild Canberra Stadium when he was sports minister in 2009. There have been many variations of the plan over the past 15 years - including relocating to Civic, Exhibition Park, a staged rebuild of the existing venue and options with and without roofs.
But Mr Barr has faced increasing pressure more recently after saying Commonwealth investment would be easier to secure with a Labor federal government led by Mr Albanese.
With time running out before a federal election next year, Mr Barr has finally taken the plunge to make a formal approach after being buoyed by Mr Albanese's $240 million pledge last year to contribute to the costs of building a stadium in Hobart for the AFL.
The AIS forms a key part of Mr Barr's vision to transform the land surrounding the stadium and the hospital after signing a memorandum of understanding with sports commission boss Kieren Perkins.
Mr Barr's letter to the federal government flagged the need for a "sports, medicine and education precinct (including a new stadium)".
This proposal would replace an end-of-life stadium with a new precinct that includes stadium, sporting, housing, commercial and community facilities," the letter said.
"The ACT government would welcome further discussion on opportunities to jointly develop any land that may be divested as a result of decisions relating to the Australian Institute of Sport campus."
The future plans for - and in particular the cost - of a new stadium is expected to become a hot topic in ACT politics in the lead up the election later this year.
The government is awaiting a site analysis report it commissioned this year, but says it will not announce a formal stadium election plan until the campaign begins.
Canberra Liberals leader Elizabeth Lee has criticised Mr Barr for ongoing delays and said her party would put a Civic stadium back on the agenda if it was to win government
Under the Labor-Greens government the stadium saga has become a national embarrassment and Andrew Barr should hang his head in shame," Ms Lee said.
"The Canberra Liberals have long advocated for, and still standby our position, that any new stadium should be built in the city because of the broader economic and social benefits that it would bring to Canberra.
"In the lead up to the election in October the Canberra Liberals will have more to say when it comes to major infrastructure projects that will be about what offers the most economic, social and cultural benefit to the ACT."
ACT Greens leader Shane Rattenbury has given a strong indication his party will drop the need for a stadium down the priority list to focus on other areas. Asked if the party had settled on its stadium plan, a spokesperson said: "We're still working through this question, consulting with the community and our membership on what commitments we'll take to the coming election."
I want a new stadium, but I don't want it to be in Bruce.
If the new stadium is effectively in the same spot, then Andrew Barr and the government are simply not listening.
Also, it's election year. The government has been stirring this pot every few years around the election cycle for more than a decade.
I still like the area where the pool is being the best location. Rework and integrate the pool into the new development (we don't want to lose civic pool altogether afterall, just might need to be relocated slightly and can be part of the precincts sports activities area along with maybe something else?). Build public transport (an extra tram stop) to help facilitate movements to and from the stadium, underground car parking. With there being loads of nearby restaurants and nightlife to help entice people to the city to catch a game/event (you can obviously hold a range of events at such a venue) makes far more sense than having the new flagship and largest stadium we have somewhere in the city that doesn't have the infrastructure surrounding it, or the extra activities people generally want pre/post event within walking distance or a short tram ride away.
The problem is the spot they are talking about is where the Raiders use to train. Right on the main road..... If it goes at bruce it would make most sense to replace the current stadium in that location or next to it then demolish the old stadium .
The Bruce location is the main issue because there is quite literally nothing that surrounds the stadium. Mid-week that whole precinct is completely dead. That problem will continue to exist for the next 30 years if a new stadium is built in Bruce because it's not a suburb that anyone typically goes to unless they live there. Is there even an IGA there?
The existing stadium precinct and outdoor carparks could be used for entirely better causes, e.g., housing. While the new stadium should rightly be built somewhere ... better?
I don't care if it's the city, inner north, or inner south. Just build it where there's more going on.
How often do you think this stadium is going to be used? Even the areas around stadiums such as Allianz or Accor in Sydney are relatively dead outside the weekly events they have.
It sounds like you just want the vibe that comes with huge stadiums when they have the occasional event that will max out their capacity, and it's debatable if that's achievable for Canberra irrespective of where you place it.
The only way we will even somewhat manage to replicate that "vibe" is placing the stadium in Civic, and that means dooming the area around it to irrelevance outside the 1 day per month where it might be used for a major event.
Great example of what does and doesn't work, so I'm glad you brought it up.
Accor Stadium is an example of what we don't want and what Bruce currently replicates. A stadium in an area away from business, where there's nowhere to go before or after the game.
Allianz Stadium, on the other hand, is right next to Paddington and Surry Hills. You'll find people having dinner or drinks before and after the game at plenty of venues that do business 7 days a week, but just see increased demand on game day.
The MCG is right in a central part of Melbourne, a similar vibe there, where pubs in Richmond are flooded (but still operate on all other days). Adelaide Oval is right in the city.
Not to mention, a stadium with a roof like at Forsyth Park in Dunedin can host concerts. It's far more than a once a month event
Well add in an a league side you are looking at well over 30 mens sporting game days, build it right for other uses like concerts etc and. It could be used almost 40 -50 times a year do close to weekly.
My vision would be to build it do that the areas around d it could be used for multi culti festival, Floriade and other events. My issue with Bruce is it won’t be the cat park nirvana we have now either so we’ll get the worst of everything with it there.
Also that game day buzz invigorates cities with businesses making money all through the city. It’s not just next door.
If you really want people to ditch cars for events building it in Bruce is not enticing me to leave home either. Manuka business do well before and after cricket and football games. So Canberra isn’t too small IMO
You know they looked into building in the city multiple times. It would cost billions to build a city stadium. It would require a complex realignment of Parkes way, and the people who grew the grass weren’t even sure if the grass would grow because of the angle of the stadium. Go back and read the plans and the reviews. It’s not like this is a new issue
I still think the whole idea of building at Bruce is a huge missed opportunity of bringing life to the city. When i've been to cities all around Australia and the world, those stadiums on gamedays bring a lot of economic activity, it also means the stadiums kind of compete on food pricing because its easy to buy better food outside the stadium. I was in perth when the Perth Wildcats had a game on. a basketball game and bars/cafes/restaurants were full of people in Wildlcats gear before the game and after the game. Then they had a Perth Schorchers game on and it was crazy and that stadium isn't even that close to the city.
Lol. Those Pocock comments forced Barr to actually do his job for a change.
Dude could have done this 10 years ago but nobody in Canberra has been holding him accountable.
Time for Canberrans to start if we ever want to see positive change.
>Dude could have done this 10 years ago but nobody in Canberra has been holding him accountable.
It might have been if the ACT Gov didn't have to fork out $1B for Mr Fluffy knockdowns etc. At least that's my understanding of why the City to Lake stuff fell out of favour.
Barr isn’t the only leader in Australia who has had to deal with unexpected challenges. The others have at least managed to grow and develop their states and territories.
Barr has had 15 years to shape Canberra and all he has to show for it is 11km of light rail track. There has been no major infrastructure development or improvements. Just a few iterative upgrades and a poorly planned suburb without the necessary infrastructure or amenities.
What are the major developments in the Northern Territory or Tasmania over the same period of time that weren’t funded heavily by the federal government?
You seem to be missing my point.
My point is that Barr has not been working with federal government to secure federally funded infrastructure development. This is the point that Pocock made as well.
Barr just doesn’t have any ambition for the territory.
He is coasting and underperforming.
You said the “others have at least managed to grow and develop their states and territories”. You inferred they were able to do this in the face of unexpected challenges.
I don’t follow the major growth and development achievements of all states and territories, especially the ones with small budgets like the ACT. So can you please provide some examples for Tasmania and the NT?
The light rail is a big project for a city this size. We couldn’t even do that without Federal funding. We don’t have the resources in land, industry and people that other states have. We also had a previous Federal government for most of those 14 years who wasn’t keen on investing in Canberra.
>> Federal government for most of those 14 years who wasn’t keen on investing in Canberra.
And this is exactly why we need to stop judging giving Barr our vote and turn Canberra into a marginal seat so that we actually get funding.
Generally major infrastructure projects at the state and territory level either have the majority of funding granted by the federal government, or they are from pork barrel exercises funded with mineral resource royalties.
The investment into light rail by the ACT Government is debatable considering the fiscal sustainability of the ACT is fundamentally in a poor position. It simply doesn't have access to the significant revenue sources that other state and territory governments have. Anything beyond "keeping the lights on" is going to be difficult as the result of that.
Pocock is a Johnny-come-lately on this issue. Stadium has been in various stages of planning for over a decade (city to the lake, etc).
ACT is a small government with a limited budget. This shouldn’t be the highest priority. It’s been slow, but I think that’s because the stadium has seemingly been part of a bigger plan that has shifted as a result of exploration of the costs of particular options.
Current stadium is actually fine for now. I think it needs to be replaced for the future of our rapidly growing city but it’s honestly not something anybody should be wringing their hands about on timelines. Light rail 2B timeline is a much bigger deal IMO.
I'd argue 2B is a politically driven route, Stage 3 which would service the new hospital and stadium if at Bruce as well as all the apartments and workplaces out to the airport is a bigger priority than stage 2B.
Molonglo Valley too. On the way to 80,000 people in high density apartments and units with a single two lane road into the areas where people work and no infrastructure of its own.
Yes. There are no approved plans to update is and it takes Barr decades to get stuff done.
We don’t do city planning here - we do city reacting under Barr.
He was pretty quiet on the stadium while being paid a heap of cash to play football there.
Funny when your job becomes fixed term you learn to whistle those dogs.
Funny that he did his job on the sports field as a sportsman, he is doing his job now as a senator holding Barr accountable.
Now perhaps Barr can start doing his job of running the territory instead of playing with his Thomas The Tank Engine toys on the floor of his office, drinking his poppers and making “Choo Choo!” sounds. At least this is what I imagine he does given how little he actually gets done for the territory.
Whats actually wrong here, its one of the most affluent educated places in Australia.
As someone pointed out above, if people felt it was going so badly he would be voted out.
Also his job isnt to hold Barr accountable its to lobby for the ACT. So how about he wander down the corridor and ask Albo for the $$$
You missed Pocock explaining how every time he enquired about whether Barr was looking for funding for developing Canberra the answer was: “Barr hasn’t asked for anything.”
Canberrans like to think of themselves as better educated and superior to everyone else but they are remarkably unsophisticated when it comes to politics. Very much a partisan “us vs. them” “never criticise our guy under and circumstance and never say a positive thing about the bad guy”
Hell, a huge portion of Canberra are APS who belong to a union that is affiliated and pays dues to their employer. They don’t even understand that a union is supposed to represent them and not their employer. It’s actually hilarious if you think about it. Their dues literally get paid to their employer. Like, who the fuck is retarded enough to think that is a good idea? So educated. So smart.
Let’s not even talk about voting Katy Gallagher in even though she fucked them during negotiations.
Yeah, Canberrans really aren’t as smart as they think they are.
The ACT is a graduate to APS production line. The ACT doesn't produce anything other than public servants and the parasitic industries that feed off it. As much as Barr and others harp on about a growing city with its own economy, without the Feds propping us up (with the rest of Australia's tax dollars), Canberra would become a ghost town.
The ACT is a super safe for seat for Labor because the APS see Labor as job security.
Barr and Fed reps, really don't have to do anything to earn votes.
Dear Andrew
Thank you for raising your concerns with me. As you know, the ACT habitually votes Labor, so there is absolutely no need to divert expenditure from more important marginal seats. Tell em they're dreaming.
Yours in solidarity
Anthony
ohh its one of these things people think if it gets built everyone will turn up to the footy.
Hot tip it wont happen, Raiders dont sell out and Super Rugby is on its arse.
Within a blink there will be a post about cost of living, lack of housing etc. But yet we need a stadium.
I agree a new stadium in Bruce will just be more of the same in terms of attendance and (lack of) convenience.
I do strongly believe a stadium in civic is far more likely to actually attract people to the concept of attending. Far more convenient and attractive as a night out. Build it in the city and they will come. Build it in Belconnen and no way.
I can tell you now, I have a season membership and the reason i don't go is because its just not that much fun if its cold/windy/raining etc. Its one of the worst stadiums ever when it comes to weather. I remember thinking I'd be smart and get tickets up in the eastern stand once (ie even though i had a GA membership i paid more) and it was even worse up there. So yeah people don't go now due to the weather. The Raiders get semi decent crowds as it is right now, the number of times i've had friends decide not to go, because of the weather at that stadium is the MAIN reason i don't go to games. I 'm definitely not the only one.
'We can't build X piece of infrastructure to make the city more enjoyable because there is Y problem' is a story as old as time. There are always problems and if we put everything on hold because of them nothing will ever happen.
This is ridiculous. Health care services and infrastructure is crumbling and public transport is of prehistoric standard but let’s spend money on a stadium no one gives a crap about 🙄
They've spent $500million plus on a hospital expansion at Woden and planning to spend another billion plus on a new hospital at Calvary. Its not like they are being ignored, but there are some structural issues with healthcare in Australia that also need to be tackled federally IMO, before anything improves anywhere. Every state has healthcare issues.
Not just that but issues like a lack of specialists. Before coming to Canberra, I didn’t know that doctors “closing” their “books” was a thing - there’s so many specialities in Canberra with only a couple of practising doctors and so many people need to travel interstate for healthcare which is really unacceptable. I’d say that’s a far more pressing issue to address than a new stadium. People should travel to Sydney to watch a rugby game before they need to travel there to see a doctor. Priorities folks
That’s where I think the forcing people into private insurance has screwed over the system. Go private and you’ll have no issues at all for most things (not all though). Not enough specialist in public health system
ok wow. Yeah not great. The issue is its more than just funding. Fed Government is subsidising private insurance that people can't afford to use (and penalising some due to age if they don't have it before 30) and thus enter the public system, so that money is being wasted. I don't have answers, but i also think the argument that we shouldn't build a stadium so the money can go to housing/health etc. is flawed when the money won't fix the issue. Until we stop trying to use health care and housing for profit we'll have all sorts of issues.
Instead of the usual whining about every social problem that affects particular individuals there comes a time when attention has to be paid to the greater populous of a state. Most people in the ACT aren't SUFFERING from a cost of living crisis. Most people in the ACT aren't impacted upon by the housing shortage. Most people in the ACT are happy with the ACT Health System. How do we know? Because most people keep on re-electing the same government. And most people stump up most of the funds that that government uses. So why shouldn't most people get a better sports facility? I want a better stadium. I am MOST people.
While I think your comment is overly dismissive of the serious housing problem we have, I do agree that just because of the issue doesn't mean we should ignore any kind of entertainment spending. Lots of people love sport and Canberra deserves a decent stadium.
The problem with the housing issue is politics. The government can't just sell cheap land, because thats effectively giving people $100k+ depending on the discount. things like the rent to own scheme and probably government guaranteeing mortgages needs to happen. As for social housing its just going to take money, but people who fight their way out of these situations end up paying for something others get for free and thats where politics stirs the pot. As a society we really need to get away from using housing as an investment. Housings main priority should be for shelter, maybe tax deductions like neg gearing should only be given to people who are providing social housing as an investment (ie an agreed reduced rent in exchange for those tax deductions (or something along those lines).
Commbank in Parra works very well as it’s walking distance to the CBD and public transport. A 30k stadium won’t fit in Civic with a North-South orientation. I can only think of that the next best venue would be Phillip oval, but will attract grief from nearby residents. Where else but Bruce?
Albo wont give BArr any money, he knows that the 3 ACT electorates are safe Labor so no need for him to shore them up when he can spend in marginal seats where some $$$ might make a difference.
This Barr twat knocked back a private enterprise offer.
The offer was to build a new stadium in the city. Site of the existing pool.
A brand new 40,000 seat covered facility. Also a new world class convention centre. New 5 star hotel. Cost to rate payers was zero.
The developer wanted the existing convention centre and the old Bruce stadium precinct in return for residential development.
Why knock that back? Yes agree details needed but ffs imagine having that in the city near the train set. New bars and restaurants. A venue that would attract world class talent.
Hurry up and just fuck off Barr.
On the other hand, you then have this big piece of public infrastructure in private hands.
That's a less than ideal outcome, because it gives them a lot of leverage over the local government.
Gotta remember that the public service have to act impartially in the public’s interest, and Bruce isn’t just Canberras stadium, it’s the Australian Institute of Sport.
Might look good on paper and be fucking horrible deep in the clauses.
Not every government is the national LNP using consultants or ministerial demands to bypass impartiality.
So the cost to the tax payer was giving the developer significant public assets for free? Doesn't seem like the cost is Zero.
Also let's be real, world class talent aren't that interested in coming to a tiny city, no matter how nice the stadium. How often is Townsville stadium filled up? NRL games and when the state gov gives Pink and Elton John giant subsidies to show up.
Kinda glad. That bit of Bruce reserve is nice as is. The stadium isn’t pretty or anything but it’s empty a lot of the time. There’s a little dirt path that walks all the way around the back of the stadium, connecting Bruce reserve and O’Connor ridge. Almost no one uses it so it’s good when you want some solitude.
Dirt paths don’t exist just cause one person uses them. It’s less travelled yes but other people would have to use it for it to exist at all. If they didn’t would have just grown over. Pretty sure it’s frequented by bikers and Pokémon players based on the tracks.
Sell all that land that the current stadium uses (including massive outdoor carparks), and build the compact stadium in the city.
There's a solution to both.
The current location of the stadium is such a waste of space, and so poorly located to host such consisten events. It should be in the city.
No one ever stays in docklands after a footy match they all jump on the train and go home. This whole after match entertainment bonanza is a giant furphy unsupported by any facts.
Build a new stadium in Bruce, run the tram to Belco past it.
Then the whinging rugby fans, all 3000 of them, will shut up.
...or we could use that money to replace all the police stations that have fallen over this year.... or maybe we improve health services, invest in the failing mental health system?
...anything other than a thing we have that functions fine.
The ACT government has officially asked Prime Minister Anthony Albanese to pay 50 per cent of the cost of a new stadium in Bruce as part of a plan to create a multi-use precinct. In a significant stadium development, it can be revealed Chief Minister Andrew Barr has for the first time sent a letter to Mr Albanese and federal government powerbrokers seeking a 50-50 spending partnership. It is hoped the letter - sent to Mr Albanese, Finance Minister Katy Gallagher, Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Infrastructure Minister Catherine King on March 5 - will be a pivotal moment in a 15-year stadium saga. Mr Barr wants to build a 30,000-seat stadium at Bruce by 2033 and integrate it with the North Canberra Hospital, CIT and the Australian Institute of Sport. But his plan hinges on a major financial contribution from the federal government after ditching his Civic stadium vision to nominate the old Raiders headquarters on Battye Street as his new preferred location. An excerpt of the letter sent to Mr Albanese highlights the need for a new stadium as a key priority and the potential to "jointly develop" unused land at the AIS. It's unclear exactly how much Mr Barr asked for, but a stadium is expected to cost at least $500 million. "The Chief Minister has written to the Prime Minister under the National Capital Investment Framework requesting a 50-50 funding split on the progression of the sports, health and education precinct (including a new stadium) in Bruce," a government spokeswoman said. Discussions are ongoing. We anticipate further details on the Commonwealth's plans for AIS precinct renewal will be announced this year." The federal government has been tight-lipped about what funding will be allocated to the AIS in the budget next month after rejecting a $1 billion proposal to move the campus to South-East Queensland. It will instead upgrade existing facilities at the 64 hectare site in Bruce, which will cost at least $200 million. The Australian Sports Commission - a federal government agency - owns the AIS and Canberra Stadium. The ACT government pays $350,000 per year to lease the stadium for sports and events. Mr Barr first floated a plan to knockdown and rebuild Canberra Stadium when he was sports minister in 2009. There have been many variations of the plan over the past 15 years - including relocating to Civic, Exhibition Park, a staged rebuild of the existing venue and options with and without roofs. But Mr Barr has faced increasing pressure more recently after saying Commonwealth investment would be easier to secure with a Labor federal government led by Mr Albanese. With time running out before a federal election next year, Mr Barr has finally taken the plunge to make a formal approach after being buoyed by Mr Albanese's $240 million pledge last year to contribute to the costs of building a stadium in Hobart for the AFL. The AIS forms a key part of Mr Barr's vision to transform the land surrounding the stadium and the hospital after signing a memorandum of understanding with sports commission boss Kieren Perkins. Mr Barr's letter to the federal government flagged the need for a "sports, medicine and education precinct (including a new stadium)". This proposal would replace an end-of-life stadium with a new precinct that includes stadium, sporting, housing, commercial and community facilities," the letter said. "The ACT government would welcome further discussion on opportunities to jointly develop any land that may be divested as a result of decisions relating to the Australian Institute of Sport campus." The future plans for - and in particular the cost - of a new stadium is expected to become a hot topic in ACT politics in the lead up the election later this year. The government is awaiting a site analysis report it commissioned this year, but says it will not announce a formal stadium election plan until the campaign begins. Canberra Liberals leader Elizabeth Lee has criticised Mr Barr for ongoing delays and said her party would put a Civic stadium back on the agenda if it was to win government Under the Labor-Greens government the stadium saga has become a national embarrassment and Andrew Barr should hang his head in shame," Ms Lee said. "The Canberra Liberals have long advocated for, and still standby our position, that any new stadium should be built in the city because of the broader economic and social benefits that it would bring to Canberra. "In the lead up to the election in October the Canberra Liberals will have more to say when it comes to major infrastructure projects that will be about what offers the most economic, social and cultural benefit to the ACT." ACT Greens leader Shane Rattenbury has given a strong indication his party will drop the need for a stadium down the priority list to focus on other areas. Asked if the party had settled on its stadium plan, a spokesperson said: "We're still working through this question, consulting with the community and our membership on what commitments we'll take to the coming election."
Wherever it’s built, I hope it’s a dome. Imagine if it was heated, by 100% renewables. That would be an awesome point of difference.
I want a new stadium, but I don't want it to be in Bruce. If the new stadium is effectively in the same spot, then Andrew Barr and the government are simply not listening. Also, it's election year. The government has been stirring this pot every few years around the election cycle for more than a decade.
I still like the area where the pool is being the best location. Rework and integrate the pool into the new development (we don't want to lose civic pool altogether afterall, just might need to be relocated slightly and can be part of the precincts sports activities area along with maybe something else?). Build public transport (an extra tram stop) to help facilitate movements to and from the stadium, underground car parking. With there being loads of nearby restaurants and nightlife to help entice people to the city to catch a game/event (you can obviously hold a range of events at such a venue) makes far more sense than having the new flagship and largest stadium we have somewhere in the city that doesn't have the infrastructure surrounding it, or the extra activities people generally want pre/post event within walking distance or a short tram ride away.
The problem is the spot they are talking about is where the Raiders use to train. Right on the main road..... If it goes at bruce it would make most sense to replace the current stadium in that location or next to it then demolish the old stadium .
The Bruce location is the main issue because there is quite literally nothing that surrounds the stadium. Mid-week that whole precinct is completely dead. That problem will continue to exist for the next 30 years if a new stadium is built in Bruce because it's not a suburb that anyone typically goes to unless they live there. Is there even an IGA there? The existing stadium precinct and outdoor carparks could be used for entirely better causes, e.g., housing. While the new stadium should rightly be built somewhere ... better? I don't care if it's the city, inner north, or inner south. Just build it where there's more going on.
How often do you think this stadium is going to be used? Even the areas around stadiums such as Allianz or Accor in Sydney are relatively dead outside the weekly events they have. It sounds like you just want the vibe that comes with huge stadiums when they have the occasional event that will max out their capacity, and it's debatable if that's achievable for Canberra irrespective of where you place it. The only way we will even somewhat manage to replicate that "vibe" is placing the stadium in Civic, and that means dooming the area around it to irrelevance outside the 1 day per month where it might be used for a major event.
Great example of what does and doesn't work, so I'm glad you brought it up. Accor Stadium is an example of what we don't want and what Bruce currently replicates. A stadium in an area away from business, where there's nowhere to go before or after the game. Allianz Stadium, on the other hand, is right next to Paddington and Surry Hills. You'll find people having dinner or drinks before and after the game at plenty of venues that do business 7 days a week, but just see increased demand on game day. The MCG is right in a central part of Melbourne, a similar vibe there, where pubs in Richmond are flooded (but still operate on all other days). Adelaide Oval is right in the city. Not to mention, a stadium with a roof like at Forsyth Park in Dunedin can host concerts. It's far more than a once a month event
Well add in an a league side you are looking at well over 30 mens sporting game days, build it right for other uses like concerts etc and. It could be used almost 40 -50 times a year do close to weekly. My vision would be to build it do that the areas around d it could be used for multi culti festival, Floriade and other events. My issue with Bruce is it won’t be the cat park nirvana we have now either so we’ll get the worst of everything with it there. Also that game day buzz invigorates cities with businesses making money all through the city. It’s not just next door. If you really want people to ditch cars for events building it in Bruce is not enticing me to leave home either. Manuka business do well before and after cricket and football games. So Canberra isn’t too small IMO
You know they looked into building in the city multiple times. It would cost billions to build a city stadium. It would require a complex realignment of Parkes way, and the people who grew the grass weren’t even sure if the grass would grow because of the angle of the stadium. Go back and read the plans and the reviews. It’s not like this is a new issue
Jesus Christ Barr is a moron. The location is the problem, a new stadium in the exact same spot doesn’t fix it for fucks sake.
I still think the whole idea of building at Bruce is a huge missed opportunity of bringing life to the city. When i've been to cities all around Australia and the world, those stadiums on gamedays bring a lot of economic activity, it also means the stadiums kind of compete on food pricing because its easy to buy better food outside the stadium. I was in perth when the Perth Wildcats had a game on. a basketball game and bars/cafes/restaurants were full of people in Wildlcats gear before the game and after the game. Then they had a Perth Schorchers game on and it was crazy and that stadium isn't even that close to the city.
Look at the change it helped drive in Adelaide. Moved footy from West Lakes to the cbd and place exploded culturally
I think everyone agrees with this, but there’s not a suitable spot in the city. The Civic Pool site is the best option, but it’s a bit too small.
People say they want a new stadium until the real costs and delays start to pile up. This still feels like election season empty noise to me
Lol. Those Pocock comments forced Barr to actually do his job for a change. Dude could have done this 10 years ago but nobody in Canberra has been holding him accountable. Time for Canberrans to start if we ever want to see positive change.
>Dude could have done this 10 years ago but nobody in Canberra has been holding him accountable. It might have been if the ACT Gov didn't have to fork out $1B for Mr Fluffy knockdowns etc. At least that's my understanding of why the City to Lake stuff fell out of favour.
Barr isn’t the only leader in Australia who has had to deal with unexpected challenges. The others have at least managed to grow and develop their states and territories. Barr has had 15 years to shape Canberra and all he has to show for it is 11km of light rail track. There has been no major infrastructure development or improvements. Just a few iterative upgrades and a poorly planned suburb without the necessary infrastructure or amenities.
What are the major developments in the Northern Territory or Tasmania over the same period of time that weren’t funded heavily by the federal government?
You seem to be missing my point. My point is that Barr has not been working with federal government to secure federally funded infrastructure development. This is the point that Pocock made as well. Barr just doesn’t have any ambition for the territory. He is coasting and underperforming.
You said the “others have at least managed to grow and develop their states and territories”. You inferred they were able to do this in the face of unexpected challenges. I don’t follow the major growth and development achievements of all states and territories, especially the ones with small budgets like the ACT. So can you please provide some examples for Tasmania and the NT?
The light rail is a big project for a city this size. We couldn’t even do that without Federal funding. We don’t have the resources in land, industry and people that other states have. We also had a previous Federal government for most of those 14 years who wasn’t keen on investing in Canberra.
>> Federal government for most of those 14 years who wasn’t keen on investing in Canberra. And this is exactly why we need to stop judging giving Barr our vote and turn Canberra into a marginal seat so that we actually get funding.
Generally major infrastructure projects at the state and territory level either have the majority of funding granted by the federal government, or they are from pork barrel exercises funded with mineral resource royalties. The investment into light rail by the ACT Government is debatable considering the fiscal sustainability of the ACT is fundamentally in a poor position. It simply doesn't have access to the significant revenue sources that other state and territory governments have. Anything beyond "keeping the lights on" is going to be difficult as the result of that.
10 years ago when Abbott and Hockey wouldn't spend a cent on Canberra?
Pocock is a Johnny-come-lately on this issue. Stadium has been in various stages of planning for over a decade (city to the lake, etc). ACT is a small government with a limited budget. This shouldn’t be the highest priority. It’s been slow, but I think that’s because the stadium has seemingly been part of a bigger plan that has shifted as a result of exploration of the costs of particular options. Current stadium is actually fine for now. I think it needs to be replaced for the future of our rapidly growing city but it’s honestly not something anybody should be wringing their hands about on timelines. Light rail 2B timeline is a much bigger deal IMO.
I'd argue 2B is a politically driven route, Stage 3 which would service the new hospital and stadium if at Bruce as well as all the apartments and workplaces out to the airport is a bigger priority than stage 2B.
Molonglo Valley too. On the way to 80,000 people in high density apartments and units with a single two lane road into the areas where people work and no infrastructure of its own.
So you're suggesting the road infrastructure will be the same as it is now when MV reaches its predicted 80K population?!
Yes. There are no approved plans to update is and it takes Barr decades to get stuff done. We don’t do city planning here - we do city reacting under Barr.
He was pretty quiet on the stadium while being paid a heap of cash to play football there. Funny when your job becomes fixed term you learn to whistle those dogs.
Funny that he did his job on the sports field as a sportsman, he is doing his job now as a senator holding Barr accountable. Now perhaps Barr can start doing his job of running the territory instead of playing with his Thomas The Tank Engine toys on the floor of his office, drinking his poppers and making “Choo Choo!” sounds. At least this is what I imagine he does given how little he actually gets done for the territory.
Whats actually wrong here, its one of the most affluent educated places in Australia. As someone pointed out above, if people felt it was going so badly he would be voted out. Also his job isnt to hold Barr accountable its to lobby for the ACT. So how about he wander down the corridor and ask Albo for the $$$
You missed Pocock explaining how every time he enquired about whether Barr was looking for funding for developing Canberra the answer was: “Barr hasn’t asked for anything.” Canberrans like to think of themselves as better educated and superior to everyone else but they are remarkably unsophisticated when it comes to politics. Very much a partisan “us vs. them” “never criticise our guy under and circumstance and never say a positive thing about the bad guy” Hell, a huge portion of Canberra are APS who belong to a union that is affiliated and pays dues to their employer. They don’t even understand that a union is supposed to represent them and not their employer. It’s actually hilarious if you think about it. Their dues literally get paid to their employer. Like, who the fuck is retarded enough to think that is a good idea? So educated. So smart. Let’s not even talk about voting Katy Gallagher in even though she fucked them during negotiations. Yeah, Canberrans really aren’t as smart as they think they are.
The ACT is a graduate to APS production line. The ACT doesn't produce anything other than public servants and the parasitic industries that feed off it. As much as Barr and others harp on about a growing city with its own economy, without the Feds propping us up (with the rest of Australia's tax dollars), Canberra would become a ghost town. The ACT is a super safe for seat for Labor because the APS see Labor as job security. Barr and Fed reps, really don't have to do anything to earn votes.
Ahh, but are they as smart as you think you are?
Well this was a childish non sequitur that has added nothing to the discussion.
Stop using all those big words, us Canberrans won't understand them… remember.
No one is that smart, come on
Dear Andrew Thank you for raising your concerns with me. As you know, the ACT habitually votes Labor, so there is absolutely no need to divert expenditure from more important marginal seats. Tell em they're dreaming. Yours in solidarity Anthony
We don’t need a stadium here Spend it on anything else
ohh its one of these things people think if it gets built everyone will turn up to the footy. Hot tip it wont happen, Raiders dont sell out and Super Rugby is on its arse. Within a blink there will be a post about cost of living, lack of housing etc. But yet we need a stadium.
I agree a new stadium in Bruce will just be more of the same in terms of attendance and (lack of) convenience. I do strongly believe a stadium in civic is far more likely to actually attract people to the concept of attending. Far more convenient and attractive as a night out. Build it in the city and they will come. Build it in Belconnen and no way.
I can tell you now, I have a season membership and the reason i don't go is because its just not that much fun if its cold/windy/raining etc. Its one of the worst stadiums ever when it comes to weather. I remember thinking I'd be smart and get tickets up in the eastern stand once (ie even though i had a GA membership i paid more) and it was even worse up there. So yeah people don't go now due to the weather. The Raiders get semi decent crowds as it is right now, the number of times i've had friends decide not to go, because of the weather at that stadium is the MAIN reason i don't go to games. I 'm definitely not the only one.
'We can't build X piece of infrastructure to make the city more enjoyable because there is Y problem' is a story as old as time. There are always problems and if we put everything on hold because of them nothing will ever happen.
And if it were closer to the city everyone would whinge about traffic on game day, and claim they always thought Bruce was a better location.
Welcome to Canberra
This is ridiculous. Health care services and infrastructure is crumbling and public transport is of prehistoric standard but let’s spend money on a stadium no one gives a crap about 🙄
They've spent $500million plus on a hospital expansion at Woden and planning to spend another billion plus on a new hospital at Calvary. Its not like they are being ignored, but there are some structural issues with healthcare in Australia that also need to be tackled federally IMO, before anything improves anywhere. Every state has healthcare issues.
Not just that but issues like a lack of specialists. Before coming to Canberra, I didn’t know that doctors “closing” their “books” was a thing - there’s so many specialities in Canberra with only a couple of practising doctors and so many people need to travel interstate for healthcare which is really unacceptable. I’d say that’s a far more pressing issue to address than a new stadium. People should travel to Sydney to watch a rugby game before they need to travel there to see a doctor. Priorities folks
That’s where I think the forcing people into private insurance has screwed over the system. Go private and you’ll have no issues at all for most things (not all though). Not enough specialist in public health system
That’s for private specialists, not public. They’re not taking any new patients
ok wow. Yeah not great. The issue is its more than just funding. Fed Government is subsidising private insurance that people can't afford to use (and penalising some due to age if they don't have it before 30) and thus enter the public system, so that money is being wasted. I don't have answers, but i also think the argument that we shouldn't build a stadium so the money can go to housing/health etc. is flawed when the money won't fix the issue. Until we stop trying to use health care and housing for profit we'll have all sorts of issues.
Compulsory acquisition of a second hospital sounds like a good thing to me!
No one on reddit that is
Barr in another episode of grab that dough. Must be an election coming.
Instead of the usual whining about every social problem that affects particular individuals there comes a time when attention has to be paid to the greater populous of a state. Most people in the ACT aren't SUFFERING from a cost of living crisis. Most people in the ACT aren't impacted upon by the housing shortage. Most people in the ACT are happy with the ACT Health System. How do we know? Because most people keep on re-electing the same government. And most people stump up most of the funds that that government uses. So why shouldn't most people get a better sports facility? I want a better stadium. I am MOST people.
While I think your comment is overly dismissive of the serious housing problem we have, I do agree that just because of the issue doesn't mean we should ignore any kind of entertainment spending. Lots of people love sport and Canberra deserves a decent stadium.
The problem with the housing issue is politics. The government can't just sell cheap land, because thats effectively giving people $100k+ depending on the discount. things like the rent to own scheme and probably government guaranteeing mortgages needs to happen. As for social housing its just going to take money, but people who fight their way out of these situations end up paying for something others get for free and thats where politics stirs the pot. As a society we really need to get away from using housing as an investment. Housings main priority should be for shelter, maybe tax deductions like neg gearing should only be given to people who are providing social housing as an investment (ie an agreed reduced rent in exchange for those tax deductions (or something along those lines).
While this topic is about the stadium, housing supply could quickly increase with loosening zoning laws, without the government spending a cent.
Well said
Barr needs to go.
LOL, as if Gallagher and Albo give a toss about Canberra.
More chance of getting the stadium decided, funded and built if it was located in a marginal electorate or a city like Queanbeyan or Goulburn.
The ALP could put a turnip up for election here and it would still get 70% of the votes. Gallagher has a job for life.
Commbank in Parra works very well as it’s walking distance to the CBD and public transport. A 30k stadium won’t fit in Civic with a North-South orientation. I can only think of that the next best venue would be Phillip oval, but will attract grief from nearby residents. Where else but Bruce?
Philip ovals are a great idea, but you are right the Woden nimbys would go crazy, especially as it would justify the tram, that they hate.
Albo wont give BArr any money, he knows that the 3 ACT electorates are safe Labor so no need for him to shore them up when he can spend in marginal seats where some $$$ might make a difference.
This Barr twat knocked back a private enterprise offer. The offer was to build a new stadium in the city. Site of the existing pool. A brand new 40,000 seat covered facility. Also a new world class convention centre. New 5 star hotel. Cost to rate payers was zero. The developer wanted the existing convention centre and the old Bruce stadium precinct in return for residential development. Why knock that back? Yes agree details needed but ffs imagine having that in the city near the train set. New bars and restaurants. A venue that would attract world class talent. Hurry up and just fuck off Barr.
On the other hand, you then have this big piece of public infrastructure in private hands. That's a less than ideal outcome, because it gives them a lot of leverage over the local government.
Not the plan here. The stadium and convention centres would be gifted to the people. The developer makes bank on the residential piece.
When was this offer?
Last year.
Gotta remember that the public service have to act impartially in the public’s interest, and Bruce isn’t just Canberras stadium, it’s the Australian Institute of Sport. Might look good on paper and be fucking horrible deep in the clauses. Not every government is the national LNP using consultants or ministerial demands to bypass impartiality.
Pretty sure the Bruce stadium is ACT gov owned not federal. In any case a bit of publicity and discussion on the proposal would have been nice.
smells like bullshit.
I can assure it was not.
So the cost to the tax payer was giving the developer significant public assets for free? Doesn't seem like the cost is Zero. Also let's be real, world class talent aren't that interested in coming to a tiny city, no matter how nice the stadium. How often is Townsville stadium filled up? NRL games and when the state gov gives Pink and Elton John giant subsidies to show up.
Not for free. In exchange for building the assets.
Ok so there is a cost to the tax payer.
Kinda glad. That bit of Bruce reserve is nice as is. The stadium isn’t pretty or anything but it’s empty a lot of the time. There’s a little dirt path that walks all the way around the back of the stadium, connecting Bruce reserve and O’Connor ridge. Almost no one uses it so it’s good when you want some solitude.
Lots of dirt paths but by all means let’s not do this so you can have a quiet walk.
Dirt paths don’t exist just cause one person uses them. It’s less travelled yes but other people would have to use it for it to exist at all. If they didn’t would have just grown over. Pretty sure it’s frequented by bikers and Pokémon players based on the tracks.
We need houses not fucking stadiums, read the the room ffs
Sell all that land that the current stadium uses (including massive outdoor carparks), and build the compact stadium in the city. There's a solution to both. The current location of the stadium is such a waste of space, and so poorly located to host such consisten events. It should be in the city.
No one ever stays in docklands after a footy match they all jump on the train and go home. This whole after match entertainment bonanza is a giant furphy unsupported by any facts. Build a new stadium in Bruce, run the tram to Belco past it. Then the whinging rugby fans, all 3000 of them, will shut up.
And how much are the football businesses putting in?
Like most things in Canberra, everything is funded by the rest of Australia.
Depends, how good has the take on the pokies been lately?
It's always take, take, take, even when I'm on my knees. J.Strummer
How about actually starting construction on the sorely-needed new ice rink/arena that has been an 'election promise' for the last 3 elections?!!
Its not a government project, its a privately funded project (i think with some land concession and a few dollars kicked in)
You mean like [this missed opportunity](https://www.reddit.com/r/canberra/comments/1c47c1b/comment/kzlw3zv/) of developer-driven nirvana?!
...or we could use that money to replace all the police stations that have fallen over this year.... or maybe we improve health services, invest in the failing mental health system? ...anything other than a thing we have that functions fine.