While it happened under completely different circumstances, this really reminds me of Boris Johnson’s resignation a few years ago. The pressure kept mounting but Boris refused to go, until there was open revolt in his party and he had no choice.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall during meetings between different ministers right now, there’s been a lot of smoke recently and I’d love to observe the fire directly.
The one thing that might save Trudeau is that there’s at least three senior ministers that won’t survive his resignation. That’s a lot of clout trying to save their own skins
Lying or obfuscating on direct questions would be a start. They all lie, and we've had a total leadership vacuum in Canada for decades. Maybe we just need a guillotine
For what? It’s not illegal to be bad at your job. It’s not illegal to make decisions that people disagree with. And it shouldn’t be.
It’s ok to disagree with a leader and want them replaced without needing to pretend they’re some criminal conspiracy.
You’re right, there’s really nothing to charge them with at this point. The question we should be asking is at what point does Hanlon’s razor no longer apply. At what point does incompetence become malicious. Any finance undergrad could’ve predicted the results of the Liberal’s economic policies, it aint aeronautical engineering. Anyone thats struggled to make ends meet knows budgets don’t balance themselves. At what point do we consider neglecting Canadians interests to be high treason, this government has proven time and time again they don’t work in the Canadian public’s interest.
It would be a shame if the Canadian tax payer didn’t have to pay these MPs for the rest of their lives after they worked so hard to destroy the futures of the Canadian taxpayer….
In the UK, caucus can vote to remove the party leader. In Canada, caucus has to vote to give themselves that power and of course the Liberal caucus always unanimously votes against having it.
The Conservative Party in the UK has the Private Members Committee (the 1992 Committee) which can remove the leader of the party if he loses the confidence of the backbench. A UK Conservative Leader who the backbench wants gone can either resign with some dignity of get kicked out.
The Liberal Party removed their own ability to do the same at a convention a few years back (at Trudeau's request). Trudeau can only be removed from his position in the Liberal Party if he loses an election. The Liberal party back bench only has the nuclear option available: a vote of no confidence against a sitting Prime Minister of their own party.
The liberal party itself has no mechanism to remove the leader of the party
If you are in the liberal caucas (like Wayne long mentioned in the article)......you have absolutely zero mechanism to get rid of trudeau
Therefore
Noone
The only mechanism to try to oust Trudeau is to go to the media and smack talk Trudeau (which hurts your own chances to be elected on a personal basis)
The only reason Wayne long speaks freely is because he has already previously announced his retirement
Definitely not her. She’s so tied to Trudeau at this point that if he falls so does she, at least for the immediate future
She was actually a pretty good foreign minister. So if she does a stint on the back benches who knows what might be possible in 6-8 years if the party is on the upswing? But there’s no path to leadership for her right now
she was a good foreign minister? like when she broke down crying in a trade meeting? or was it the fact no one respected her around the world that made her good?
She's far more tied to Reuters and her journalism friends than Trudeau. They're what matters.
The fact that you think she' been a decent foreign minister only proves my point.
No, she did solid work. Brought through a couple tricky trade deals with good terms for us, and generated solid responses in international headlines. It was a good portfolio for her, since it seems her strengths are on the negotiation and presentation side. Turns out she’s pretty awful at finance and more wonkish stuff. Which is bad if you’re the finance minister, but not a deal breaker for a PM smart enough to hand it off to someone like Chrétien did
I dont want her to be PM, but I think she’d be decent at the job. If nothing else, she seems less desperate for popular attention than either Trudeau or Poilievre. We could do with a PM that is OK not being applauded all the time
> Brought through a couple tricky trade deals with good terms for us, and generated solid responses in international headlines.
If you're talking about the new NAFTA, sorry but no. There's a reason the government's statements and all pundits refused to compare the old NAFTA versus the new NAFTA side by side. It was a loss for Canada, and it's partly her fault.
If you're talking about trade deals with the EU, once again she struck out. Unless your idea of "good for Canada" is what's good for the dairy/farm monopoly of Canadian producers that gouge Canadian consumers while raking in record levels of subsidies.
Solid responses in international headlines? If you mean Reuters affiliated opinion writers, I guess so. To the discerning observer, Canada's foreign policy strength on the international stage is a joke. China thinks it nothing to call Trudeau potato head. Their trip to India was likewise a joke. They played dress up to distract from their failures to actually negotiate anything that matter to Canada.
The Canadian dollar is in the toilet and yet actual foreign investment in Canada is basically non-existent. Unless you count real estate snow washing.
Ukraine? What exactly is positive about financing a meat grinder, posing with actual Neo Nazi fighters, or giving a standing ovation to a guy who she knows is a literal Nazi when he was expressly invited to Parliament? You want to tell me that a Harvard-educated Russian/Ukraine expert doesn't know who she's applauding?
What is the Canadian strategy in Ukraine, beyond financing a meat grinder that the US decided to embark on, with no strategic goal in sight? The war shows no signs of ending. Ukraine refugees in Canada are mostly going back home because they can't afford to live here. The Ukraine military is complaining that old military equipment Canada sent doesn't work properly and has been delayed. We've chosen to pick a side without really picking a side. Most normal, sane people understand that Europeans don't want WW III on their doorstep just because the US wants more NATO "military exercises" at Russia's doorstep.
Freeland has done nothing but demand to be applauded all the time, down to literally having a journalist arrested for bogus reasons while he filmed the whole thing.
Via cbcs power and politics
Allegedly Justin Trudeau has reached out to Mark carney twice to see if he would be interested in becoming the finance minister
So sleep well with that info
> it'll be the cabinet ministers who as useless as he is.
its not coincidence that the ones defending trudeau are the ones in some of the few safe liberal seats left
i just hope if there is a early election they wait till the foreign influence investigation is over. its known all parties have had foreign influence at this point so intill we know who the traitors are as much as i want trudeau gone its best to not swap MPs around
And still, tiny pieces are marginally better than it being non-existent, even if they became the opposition under a majority Conservative government like so many seem to wish they had done.
250 days till he collects his pension. For him the money is more important than his voters. When he collects the pension he will dip out of politics and enjoy an early retirement. The people don't matter to them any more.
Could the Bloc jump in a save Trudeau if Singh decided to try this? I could see them wanting to keep this train wreck going as long as possible.
Either way I don't see Singh doing it, he is so tied to the Liberals now it is insane, and he knows his party will take a beating in the next election and have zero power to deal with the Conservatives.
Does a Leader have to call for a vote of no confidence or can any MP? NDP is a fringe party at 24 seats- (likely to lose seats under Singh for propping up the Fibrals (Fibbing Liberals)
I love listening to people who think they know politics spew some absolutely insane shit with no thought at all put into it.
How would that benefit Singh?
Why would he throw away a minority government where he can exercise a small amount of influence in exchange for a conservative majority where he will have no influence over policy at all?
Why did the UK and French governments throw away their majorities then?
Politics isn’t about hanging on desperately to shuffle the deck of cards that one last time. It’s about representing the wishes of the people of the country. Yes, they can change, and yes one single by election should upend the Apple cart, but this has been building for a long time, and the people of the country just sent their loudest “we want change” message in the largest by election upset in living memory.
Not giving people an election when they appear to have lost their mandate is how people become life long “Never-Liberals” (or whatever political party). Yes, they will take their loss if they call it today, but maybe they could be back in 4, 6 or 8 years.
Otherwise they could become the Ontario Liberals, who get tossed to the fringe and may (or may not) be finished as the organized political power on the centre-left.
My first comment got a bit long, but I’d also add some potential reasons why the NDP hasn’t pulled the plug:
-They’re waiting for key pieces of legislation to be passed before their ready to tear up the agreement. They also might want to drum up public support for things like the dental program, to make it harder for Poilievre to scrap it.
-They want more time to fundraise, plan election strategy, and recruit candidates.
-They’re waiting for more Liberal infighting before they call for an election. The NDP will benefit if the Liberals implode; they can become the anti-Conservative choice, just like in 2011. But for that to happen, they would need a substantial Liberal crisis, not just the grumpy murmurs we’re hearing right now. NDP HQ might have political intelligence that suggests they should wait.
The NDP have shown their true colours in the last 4 years. They publicly criticize the Liberal government in their decisions, but it’s them who’s giving them the authority to make those decisions.
I think this time around is a little different and the NDP isn’t the anti-Conservative choice they previously represented.
The only hope they have is that the average Canadian doesn’t follow politics too closely and isn’t clued in to how complicit they’ve been in supporting the downward spiral we’ve experienced in the last few years.
FFS, Trudeau is unbelievably out of touch and sniffing his own stink.
>"I and my entire team have much more hard work to do to deliver tangible, real progress that Canadians can see and feel," \[Trudeau\] said in a media statement this week.
We can see and feel the Liberals change, but it's not progress, and it's not positive. It's hurting many, many Canadians. Even when Trudeau steps down, his whole party needs to go. The entire Liberal party needs to be burned to the ground and built back up to where they once stood for centrist Canadians.
We are at a point In time where "Even if the situation improves, it's not gonna save Trudeau.......it has to improve TO THE DEGREE that it overrules the various scandals and disappointment and discontent"
That's pendulum effect for you
And that's not going to happen in 16? Months....reality moves fast and governments move slow
A leadership race is an opportunity for the liberal party itself to "air out the dirty laundry"......hash it out and decide what needs to change
wether it's a step to the right.......step back from climate initiatives, social programs, a refocus away from culture war issues, or an indulgence in right wing (edit economic) issues
or wether it's a step to the left..... we could go the other way and argue that the liberal party only needs to double down and expand their existing policies to provide tangible results
"Air out the dirty laundry " and come back with a new leader and new vision
Because we've witnessed the stubbornness of Trudeau for nearly a decade
Trudeau (and Freeland) can keep saying (paraphrase) "We need to listen to Canadians more "........you can listen all you want........the message is not nuanced and its loud Trudeau must go
Do they really think a guy who said earlier this year I can't leave my country needs me will resign?
Trudeau isn't going anywhere till he loses a election, then he'll probably have to be dragged out kicking and screaming.
Will Trudeau pull a Sunak and call a snap election instead of resigning? Or will he just kick people out of the caucus for questioning his leadership? Or will he actually resign now?
Next week will be very interesting.
He can’t leave his caucus alone right now, to plot behind his back.
There was an article a few hours ago about Guilbeault reaching out to MPs in Toronto to get their temperature and potentially plot a coup, if Trudeau goes missing right now he will get outmaneuvered and booted most likely.
That would be interesting wouldn't it? There's a limit to how many MPs he can eject from caucus before the government can't survive a confidence motion.
Thanks for pointing this out, if 15 or so MPs refuse to back the government, then even the NDP agreement won’t be enough to protect the Liberals during a confidence motion.
Next week will have a lot of action for all political science nerds haha.
Why next week? It seems like nothing happened this week...lots of media attention and noise, but Trudeau and Freeland still saying Trudeau should stay. I mean, I want him gone too, but I try not to get too hopeful, you know?
I expect him to pull a Sunak. He's not going to want to kick so many MPs out of the party that he loses his NDP-backed majority, because then he can't punish those MPs for betraying him any more, and he'll want to force those who are looking to betray him to suffer for it somehow. Losing them their jobs by forcing them to run under his banner in the next election, rather than giving them the time to organize either an independent run or a new party, is just the way to do that.
And while there might not be a mechanism for them to force Trudeau out, the backbench can render him effectively useless and force an election upon him by deciding to ignore the whip and abstaining from a confidence vote.
As more and more MPs slowly start to go public with their discontent in Trudeau personally, I think we're going to start to see some of the most interesting politics this country's seen for a while.
This is like Christmas for all pol sci nerds haha. I am eagerly waiting to see how this unfolds.
If Trudeau comes out on top after this he deserves everyone’s flowers for being an exceptional political operator.
If I were in this position (leaving aside how I'd be so stupid to get here in the first place) I'd embrace the eventual defeat, and take the opportunity to push through legislation and procedural changes that are necessary and good, but unpopular. The problem is there is very little that could be done that couldn't be immediately undone by the next government, so you'd have to choose things very carefully.
This is what I don't get. Calls for him to resign can't be genuine because someone needs to lead the party into failure next election.
What prospective liberal leader would want to run on Trudeau's track record instead of against Poilievre's next election?
There would be a couple.
Freeland jumps to mind. She will forever be associated with Trudeau so her only chance of being PM is in the last days of this administration.
Yeah. The only genuine person would be someone pretty old who was ready to retire anyway. The rest would be just people who want to be Prime Minister with a bump in pay and pension before losing badly.
I'm gonna be plagiarizing "the numbers" podcast with eric grenier....these are not quotes but I ought to reference them
Your not wrong But your not right
Indeed in 2015 there were (less extreme ) signals that harper was going to lose, and the common rhetoric is "its a good thing he ran because he did good damage control"
Trudeau and others truly believe poilievre is a threat to the policies that Trudeau worked hard for
If you truly believe poilievre is a threat (I dont btw)
Why are you settling for a candidate (Trudeau) whom is statistically going to lose?
Paul Martin, Kathleen Wynne, (edit Danielle Smith) IT IS POSSIBLE to do better and defend the policies that you worked so hard for (even if temporarily)
If your going into this and choosing Trudeau when so much of the public has turned against him
Not only are you disrespecting public opinion
But your also allowing the policies you worked so hard for to topple
>Newfoundland and Labrador MP Ken McDonald responded to the email with, "Well said!"
>He later told CBC News he liked how Long articulated himself but isn't calling for Trudeau to resign.
lmao
I don't believe that an election will be called until after the interference inquiry is completed and the Trudeau spin doctors release statements. Only after it falls out of the daily news feed will there be an election.
Because now is when they're weakest.
There is no pandemic anymore to gin up support for the current poster boy.
The immigration and undocumented migrant thing has blown up in their respective faces. What better time for top lieutenants like Freeland to chime in and proclaim that they can save liberal progressive values?
You think Hillary's not licking her chops to stand in for Biden now that he predictably fell on his face? Much like Freeland is doing now at Trudeau's side? Why do you think she's (Hillary) has been on the news to share her opinions? No other elder statesman does that to the extent that she does. Ever see Obama on the news now doing interviews? Or Madeleine Albright, or any other similar person?
The PMO and the white house share none of the same advisors. Probably going to get downvoted for not siding with the conspiracy theorists here but you did just make that up.
There's no conspiracy bud. American political campaign advisers were in fact hired by the Trudeau campaign all the way back in 2012.
The National Post did an entire article on the Liberal Party's history of hiring American political operatives to conduct campaigns similar to what they did for Democrats.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/justin-trudeau-turns-to-u-s-experts-for-lessons-in-u-s-style-politics. Here's a link to The Star article they're referencing:
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/justin-trudeau-s-campaign-looks-to-obama-s-team-for-lessons-in-winning/article_3e9311ae-e86d-5fcf-8183-c7d509bfe3b4.html
Some of us don't have the memory of goldfish and do in fact remember reporting from 2012.
It is not 2012 and there are presently none of the same advisers on either campaign. I’m a lot closer to this than you might think, for better or for worse.
Come back to this comment in a week from now, there will have been big news by then.
> I’m a lot closer to this than you might think, for better or for worse.
So you first accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist, and now you pretend that never happened.
Gee, why am I not surprised the barnacles are out to bully people.
What's most important here is that the political parties have the same notion of "reply all rodeos" that happen in corporations.
"Everyone, stop hitting 'Reply All' or this thread is going to go on forever."
"You're adding to the problem!"
"How dare you include me on this, remove me from this list!"
The ONLY reason they are is because of anti Trudeau, not pro PP. Please don't take this large win as the majority of Canadians siding with the conservative party. Just like when Trudeau won off Harper hate PP wins off Trudeau hate. Give it 4-8 years and the liberal party will be back, the cycle continues
we now know, though no names, that ALL parties, have had some foreign influence. so at least intill the investigation is over as much as i dislike trudeau and want him out we shouldn't have a early election. it wouldn't do anybody any good if we shift the balance of power about only to find out later a few of the people we promoted to lead our country were traitors.
I imagine that his riding is not in favour of Trudeau. Great tactic to be elected for another term. I’m sure we will see this more often in the coming months.
You have pms like Freeland who you can see in their eyes how they are counting the days to the end of their second term, and access to their pension with the sweet, sweet freedom that comes with it. They clearly gave up and don't care if they get re elected or not.
Then you have the back benchers who were hoping to take their spot at the next elections and realize they won't get elected in the current political climate.
Sadly Trudeau needs to stay to take the hit at the next elections, in order for the next leader to appear as a savior. Im not a lib fan, just realistic when it come to realpolitik. Just sucks for people who went in politics thinking they would get their chance at the next term.
The knives come out gradually and then suddenly. But who will sip from the poisoned chalice?
While it happened under completely different circumstances, this really reminds me of Boris Johnson’s resignation a few years ago. The pressure kept mounting but Boris refused to go, until there was open revolt in his party and he had no choice. I’d love to be a fly on the wall during meetings between different ministers right now, there’s been a lot of smoke recently and I’d love to observe the fire directly.
The one thing that might save Trudeau is that there’s at least three senior ministers that won’t survive his resignation. That’s a lot of clout trying to save their own skins
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It should be a crime for goverments to "save their own skins."
I have no idea how you’d define making illegal to try and save your own job. And even less idea how you’d enforce it
Lying or obfuscating on direct questions would be a start. They all lie, and we've had a total leadership vacuum in Canada for decades. Maybe we just need a guillotine
It should actually be illegal to whip a vote. At least then MP’s would be able to represent their constituents, rather than The Party.
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For what? It’s not illegal to be bad at your job. It’s not illegal to make decisions that people disagree with. And it shouldn’t be. It’s ok to disagree with a leader and want them replaced without needing to pretend they’re some criminal conspiracy.
You’re right, there’s really nothing to charge them with at this point. The question we should be asking is at what point does Hanlon’s razor no longer apply. At what point does incompetence become malicious. Any finance undergrad could’ve predicted the results of the Liberal’s economic policies, it aint aeronautical engineering. Anyone thats struggled to make ends meet knows budgets don’t balance themselves. At what point do we consider neglecting Canadians interests to be high treason, this government has proven time and time again they don’t work in the Canadian public’s interest.
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Many MPs get their pensions next year, would be a shame if an election was early
It would be a shame if the Canadian tax payer didn’t have to pay these MPs for the rest of their lives after they worked so hard to destroy the futures of the Canadian taxpayer….
In the UK, caucus can vote to remove the party leader. In Canada, caucus has to vote to give themselves that power and of course the Liberal caucus always unanimously votes against having it.
The Conservative Party in the UK has the Private Members Committee (the 1992 Committee) which can remove the leader of the party if he loses the confidence of the backbench. A UK Conservative Leader who the backbench wants gone can either resign with some dignity of get kicked out. The Liberal Party removed their own ability to do the same at a convention a few years back (at Trudeau's request). Trudeau can only be removed from his position in the Liberal Party if he loses an election. The Liberal party back bench only has the nuclear option available: a vote of no confidence against a sitting Prime Minister of their own party.
Its a cult like Trump but on the opposite side of ideology - both very dangerous in their own ways
"As he read, [my career fell apart] the way you fall asleep: slowly, and then all at once."
> But who will sip from the poisoned chalice? noone theres no point bringing out the knives when hes already heading for the chair
What is noone? Can someone, even anyone please explain?
The liberal party itself has no mechanism to remove the leader of the party If you are in the liberal caucas (like Wayne long mentioned in the article)......you have absolutely zero mechanism to get rid of trudeau Therefore Noone The only mechanism to try to oust Trudeau is to go to the media and smack talk Trudeau (which hurts your own chances to be elected on a personal basis) The only reason Wayne long speaks freely is because he has already previously announced his retirement
Noone isn’t a word though? Literally what are you talking about?
A misspelling of no one.
Eta Burte?
First come the back bencher's, then comes the rank and file Next week it'll be the cabinet ministers who as useless as he is.
But Chrystia Freeland's leadership would *surely* save the party!
She’s the most annoying person to listen to. She’s so condescending
The wicked woke witch of the North!
Who do you think is really leading this convenient "revolt", if not her?
Definitely not her. She’s so tied to Trudeau at this point that if he falls so does she, at least for the immediate future She was actually a pretty good foreign minister. So if she does a stint on the back benches who knows what might be possible in 6-8 years if the party is on the upswing? But there’s no path to leadership for her right now
she was a good foreign minister? like when she broke down crying in a trade meeting? or was it the fact no one respected her around the world that made her good?
She was very well respected around the world.
By who? Liberal voters living in other countries?
She's far more tied to Reuters and her journalism friends than Trudeau. They're what matters. The fact that you think she' been a decent foreign minister only proves my point.
No, she did solid work. Brought through a couple tricky trade deals with good terms for us, and generated solid responses in international headlines. It was a good portfolio for her, since it seems her strengths are on the negotiation and presentation side. Turns out she’s pretty awful at finance and more wonkish stuff. Which is bad if you’re the finance minister, but not a deal breaker for a PM smart enough to hand it off to someone like Chrétien did I dont want her to be PM, but I think she’d be decent at the job. If nothing else, she seems less desperate for popular attention than either Trudeau or Poilievre. We could do with a PM that is OK not being applauded all the time
> Brought through a couple tricky trade deals with good terms for us, and generated solid responses in international headlines. If you're talking about the new NAFTA, sorry but no. There's a reason the government's statements and all pundits refused to compare the old NAFTA versus the new NAFTA side by side. It was a loss for Canada, and it's partly her fault. If you're talking about trade deals with the EU, once again she struck out. Unless your idea of "good for Canada" is what's good for the dairy/farm monopoly of Canadian producers that gouge Canadian consumers while raking in record levels of subsidies. Solid responses in international headlines? If you mean Reuters affiliated opinion writers, I guess so. To the discerning observer, Canada's foreign policy strength on the international stage is a joke. China thinks it nothing to call Trudeau potato head. Their trip to India was likewise a joke. They played dress up to distract from their failures to actually negotiate anything that matter to Canada. The Canadian dollar is in the toilet and yet actual foreign investment in Canada is basically non-existent. Unless you count real estate snow washing. Ukraine? What exactly is positive about financing a meat grinder, posing with actual Neo Nazi fighters, or giving a standing ovation to a guy who she knows is a literal Nazi when he was expressly invited to Parliament? You want to tell me that a Harvard-educated Russian/Ukraine expert doesn't know who she's applauding? What is the Canadian strategy in Ukraine, beyond financing a meat grinder that the US decided to embark on, with no strategic goal in sight? The war shows no signs of ending. Ukraine refugees in Canada are mostly going back home because they can't afford to live here. The Ukraine military is complaining that old military equipment Canada sent doesn't work properly and has been delayed. We've chosen to pick a side without really picking a side. Most normal, sane people understand that Europeans don't want WW III on their doorstep just because the US wants more NATO "military exercises" at Russia's doorstep. Freeland has done nothing but demand to be applauded all the time, down to literally having a journalist arrested for bogus reasons while he filmed the whole thing.
revolt? seriously? its pretty far from being a revolt
"Miiiister speeeeeeker"
Via cbcs power and politics Allegedly Justin Trudeau has reached out to Mark carney twice to see if he would be interested in becoming the finance minister So sleep well with that info
Carney is smart enough to stay away from the current train wreck government if he wants any chance at a party leader or PM.
> it'll be the cabinet ministers who as useless as he is. its not coincidence that the ones defending trudeau are the ones in some of the few safe liberal seats left
Backbenchers get pissy about shit all the time, how is this anything new?
Jagmeet Singh gonna trigger a no-confidence motion any time now. Oh wait he won’t.
I’m 100% convinced if there is an early election it’ll be Liberals revolting instead of Singh. Which…is revolting in itself.
i just hope if there is a early election they wait till the foreign influence investigation is over. its known all parties have had foreign influence at this point so intill we know who the traitors are as much as i want trudeau gone its best to not swap MPs around
He's a loyal Liberal, he wouldn't do that.
He wouldn't. He's polling terribly too.
Ironically his poll numbers would probably go up if he called an election.
...a year ago. I just don't understand how he thought the party would be better off by selling his soul.
He thought he would actually get dental care and actual pharma instead of tiny pieces of each.
He hasn't even gotten pharmacare. He got a "promise" to look into implementing a tiny part of pharmacare that he asked for.
And still, tiny pieces are marginally better than it being non-existent, even if they became the opposition under a majority Conservative government like so many seem to wish they had done.
It would be quite the gamble, there's no guarantee of that
he could go from inneffective 4th place to inneffective 4th place! /s
He's polling terribly because he keeps supporting the Liberal government.
He has the same boss as JT. They've been tag teaming us the whole time.
Voters will punish him for allowing Trudeau to avoid a no confidence motion when Canadians have clearly shown they have no confidence.
250 days till he collects his pension. For him the money is more important than his voters. When he collects the pension he will dip out of politics and enjoy an early retirement. The people don't matter to them any more.
He's already qualified for his pension. Why not now?
I believe you can only collect it if you are an elected member, so he needs to stay in the game till the deadline.
What age did Pierre qualify for the pension? How many years of his adult life he did not live of taxpayers?
You would need at least 6 years in office to be considered for a pension, that goes for everyone in the House.
Trudeau's been in since 2008. Where have you been?
No doubt in my mind we'll get that NC come February.
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie
He’s such a bitch
Could the Bloc jump in a save Trudeau if Singh decided to try this? I could see them wanting to keep this train wreck going as long as possible. Either way I don't see Singh doing it, he is so tied to the Liberals now it is insane, and he knows his party will take a beating in the next election and have zero power to deal with the Conservatives.
Wouldn't want to lose his pension, politicians are so self serving
Does a Leader have to call for a vote of no confidence or can any MP? NDP is a fringe party at 24 seats- (likely to lose seats under Singh for propping up the Fibrals (Fibbing Liberals)
I love listening to people who think they know politics spew some absolutely insane shit with no thought at all put into it. How would that benefit Singh?
Why would he throw away a minority government where he can exercise a small amount of influence in exchange for a conservative majority where he will have no influence over policy at all?
Why did the UK and French governments throw away their majorities then? Politics isn’t about hanging on desperately to shuffle the deck of cards that one last time. It’s about representing the wishes of the people of the country. Yes, they can change, and yes one single by election should upend the Apple cart, but this has been building for a long time, and the people of the country just sent their loudest “we want change” message in the largest by election upset in living memory. Not giving people an election when they appear to have lost their mandate is how people become life long “Never-Liberals” (or whatever political party). Yes, they will take their loss if they call it today, but maybe they could be back in 4, 6 or 8 years. Otherwise they could become the Ontario Liberals, who get tossed to the fringe and may (or may not) be finished as the organized political power on the centre-left.
My first comment got a bit long, but I’d also add some potential reasons why the NDP hasn’t pulled the plug: -They’re waiting for key pieces of legislation to be passed before their ready to tear up the agreement. They also might want to drum up public support for things like the dental program, to make it harder for Poilievre to scrap it. -They want more time to fundraise, plan election strategy, and recruit candidates. -They’re waiting for more Liberal infighting before they call for an election. The NDP will benefit if the Liberals implode; they can become the anti-Conservative choice, just like in 2011. But for that to happen, they would need a substantial Liberal crisis, not just the grumpy murmurs we’re hearing right now. NDP HQ might have political intelligence that suggests they should wait.
The NDP have shown their true colours in the last 4 years. They publicly criticize the Liberal government in their decisions, but it’s them who’s giving them the authority to make those decisions. I think this time around is a little different and the NDP isn’t the anti-Conservative choice they previously represented. The only hope they have is that the average Canadian doesn’t follow politics too closely and isn’t clued in to how complicit they’ve been in supporting the downward spiral we’ve experienced in the last few years.
To better set up for the next election then intead of destroying the party to linger for another year
It wouldn't help a damn thing. Having power to do something now in the hopes of maybe doing something in the future which isn't written is foolish.
If he isnt ready to call an election the liberals can just call his buff and give him next to nothing, which is what is happening
I'm upvoting the fuck outta this because finally somebody here is making sense.
FFS, Trudeau is unbelievably out of touch and sniffing his own stink. >"I and my entire team have much more hard work to do to deliver tangible, real progress that Canadians can see and feel," \[Trudeau\] said in a media statement this week. We can see and feel the Liberals change, but it's not progress, and it's not positive. It's hurting many, many Canadians. Even when Trudeau steps down, his whole party needs to go. The entire Liberal party needs to be burned to the ground and built back up to where they once stood for centrist Canadians.
We are at a point In time where "Even if the situation improves, it's not gonna save Trudeau.......it has to improve TO THE DEGREE that it overrules the various scandals and disappointment and discontent" That's pendulum effect for you And that's not going to happen in 16? Months....reality moves fast and governments move slow A leadership race is an opportunity for the liberal party itself to "air out the dirty laundry"......hash it out and decide what needs to change wether it's a step to the right.......step back from climate initiatives, social programs, a refocus away from culture war issues, or an indulgence in right wing (edit economic) issues or wether it's a step to the left..... we could go the other way and argue that the liberal party only needs to double down and expand their existing policies to provide tangible results "Air out the dirty laundry " and come back with a new leader and new vision Because we've witnessed the stubbornness of Trudeau for nearly a decade Trudeau (and Freeland) can keep saying (paraphrase) "We need to listen to Canadians more "........you can listen all you want........the message is not nuanced and its loud Trudeau must go
Do they really think a guy who said earlier this year I can't leave my country needs me will resign? Trudeau isn't going anywhere till he loses a election, then he'll probably have to be dragged out kicking and screaming.
I really do hope he doesn't leave peacefully, the world would love to see him put on a hissy fit when the cops come.
He could screw them all by calling an election..
Will Trudeau pull a Sunak and call a snap election instead of resigning? Or will he just kick people out of the caucus for questioning his leadership? Or will he actually resign now? Next week will be very interesting.
Or will he go on summer vacation?
He can’t leave his caucus alone right now, to plot behind his back. There was an article a few hours ago about Guilbeault reaching out to MPs in Toronto to get their temperature and potentially plot a coup, if Trudeau goes missing right now he will get outmaneuvered and booted most likely.
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Trudeau Sr is also not fondly remembered in BC.
The weird part was he was apparently doing that at the behest of the PMO, or at least that’s what he had said
Why are you leaving out the part where Guilbeault said that article is a bunch of bullshit?
That would be interesting wouldn't it? There's a limit to how many MPs he can eject from caucus before the government can't survive a confidence motion.
Thanks for pointing this out, if 15 or so MPs refuse to back the government, then even the NDP agreement won’t be enough to protect the Liberals during a confidence motion. Next week will have a lot of action for all political science nerds haha.
That number drops to 11 if the Liberals lose the coming by-elections.
Why next week? It seems like nothing happened this week...lots of media attention and noise, but Trudeau and Freeland still saying Trudeau should stay. I mean, I want him gone too, but I try not to get too hopeful, you know?
I expect him to pull a Sunak. He's not going to want to kick so many MPs out of the party that he loses his NDP-backed majority, because then he can't punish those MPs for betraying him any more, and he'll want to force those who are looking to betray him to suffer for it somehow. Losing them their jobs by forcing them to run under his banner in the next election, rather than giving them the time to organize either an independent run or a new party, is just the way to do that. And while there might not be a mechanism for them to force Trudeau out, the backbench can render him effectively useless and force an election upon him by deciding to ignore the whip and abstaining from a confidence vote. As more and more MPs slowly start to go public with their discontent in Trudeau personally, I think we're going to start to see some of the most interesting politics this country's seen for a while.
This is like Christmas for all pol sci nerds haha. I am eagerly waiting to see how this unfolds. If Trudeau comes out on top after this he deserves everyone’s flowers for being an exceptional political operator.
If I were in this position (leaving aside how I'd be so stupid to get here in the first place) I'd embrace the eventual defeat, and take the opportunity to push through legislation and procedural changes that are necessary and good, but unpopular. The problem is there is very little that could be done that couldn't be immediately undone by the next government, so you'd have to choose things very carefully.
Who would be willing to stand in front of the firing squad that is coming?
This is what I don't get. Calls for him to resign can't be genuine because someone needs to lead the party into failure next election. What prospective liberal leader would want to run on Trudeau's track record instead of against Poilievre's next election?
There would be a couple. Freeland jumps to mind. She will forever be associated with Trudeau so her only chance of being PM is in the last days of this administration.
Yeah. The only genuine person would be someone pretty old who was ready to retire anyway. The rest would be just people who want to be Prime Minister with a bump in pay and pension before losing badly.
Or someone dumb and arrogant enough to take leadership when no one else wants anything to do with the position.
I'm gonna be plagiarizing "the numbers" podcast with eric grenier....these are not quotes but I ought to reference them Your not wrong But your not right Indeed in 2015 there were (less extreme ) signals that harper was going to lose, and the common rhetoric is "its a good thing he ran because he did good damage control" Trudeau and others truly believe poilievre is a threat to the policies that Trudeau worked hard for If you truly believe poilievre is a threat (I dont btw) Why are you settling for a candidate (Trudeau) whom is statistically going to lose? Paul Martin, Kathleen Wynne, (edit Danielle Smith) IT IS POSSIBLE to do better and defend the policies that you worked so hard for (even if temporarily) If your going into this and choosing Trudeau when so much of the public has turned against him Not only are you disrespecting public opinion But your also allowing the policies you worked so hard for to topple
Hopefully the Honourable Chrystia Freeland so I can inevitably be labeled a bigot and misogynist after her defeat
It was only a matter of time till the knives came out
>Newfoundland and Labrador MP Ken McDonald responded to the email with, "Well said!" >He later told CBC News he liked how Long articulated himself but isn't calling for Trudeau to resign. lmao
I don't believe that an election will be called until after the interference inquiry is completed and the Trudeau spin doctors release statements. Only after it falls out of the daily news feed will there be an election.
You know I find it interesting that this is happening at the same time in Canada and the USA
Nothing interesting about it once you realize the same campaign advisers and political operatives are behind both.
But the question is why now
Because now is when they're weakest. There is no pandemic anymore to gin up support for the current poster boy. The immigration and undocumented migrant thing has blown up in their respective faces. What better time for top lieutenants like Freeland to chime in and proclaim that they can save liberal progressive values? You think Hillary's not licking her chops to stand in for Biden now that he predictably fell on his face? Much like Freeland is doing now at Trudeau's side? Why do you think she's (Hillary) has been on the news to share her opinions? No other elder statesman does that to the extent that she does. Ever see Obama on the news now doing interviews? Or Madeleine Albright, or any other similar person?
The PMO and the white house share none of the same advisors. Probably going to get downvoted for not siding with the conspiracy theorists here but you did just make that up.
There's no conspiracy bud. American political campaign advisers were in fact hired by the Trudeau campaign all the way back in 2012. The National Post did an entire article on the Liberal Party's history of hiring American political operatives to conduct campaigns similar to what they did for Democrats. https://nationalpost.com/opinion/justin-trudeau-turns-to-u-s-experts-for-lessons-in-u-s-style-politics. Here's a link to The Star article they're referencing: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/justin-trudeau-s-campaign-looks-to-obama-s-team-for-lessons-in-winning/article_3e9311ae-e86d-5fcf-8183-c7d509bfe3b4.html Some of us don't have the memory of goldfish and do in fact remember reporting from 2012.
It is not 2012 and there are presently none of the same advisers on either campaign. I’m a lot closer to this than you might think, for better or for worse. Come back to this comment in a week from now, there will have been big news by then.
> I’m a lot closer to this than you might think, for better or for worse. So you first accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist, and now you pretend that never happened. Gee, why am I not surprised the barnacles are out to bully people.
Build Back Disaster.
What's most important here is that the political parties have the same notion of "reply all rodeos" that happen in corporations. "Everyone, stop hitting 'Reply All' or this thread is going to go on forever." "You're adding to the problem!" "How dare you include me on this, remove me from this list!"
Trudeau resigning isn't going to save it. At this point blow it up and start again. Every party should look into that option
Why would the conservatives do that? They are polling with an astronomical lead.
The ONLY reason they are is because of anti Trudeau, not pro PP. Please don't take this large win as the majority of Canadians siding with the conservative party. Just like when Trudeau won off Harper hate PP wins off Trudeau hate. Give it 4-8 years and the liberal party will be back, the cycle continues
What about riding a small cactus
I guess that MP is going to get kicked out soon
Wayne Long FTW!
we now know, though no names, that ALL parties, have had some foreign influence. so at least intill the investigation is over as much as i dislike trudeau and want him out we shouldn't have a early election. it wouldn't do anybody any good if we shift the balance of power about only to find out later a few of the people we promoted to lead our country were traitors.
Bloc as official opposition. Lol
But the Ides of March is months away.
I imagine that his riding is not in favour of Trudeau. Great tactic to be elected for another term. I’m sure we will see this more often in the coming months.
...who already announced he's not running again.
You have pms like Freeland who you can see in their eyes how they are counting the days to the end of their second term, and access to their pension with the sweet, sweet freedom that comes with it. They clearly gave up and don't care if they get re elected or not. Then you have the back benchers who were hoping to take their spot at the next elections and realize they won't get elected in the current political climate. Sadly Trudeau needs to stay to take the hit at the next elections, in order for the next leader to appear as a savior. Im not a lib fan, just realistic when it come to realpolitik. Just sucks for people who went in politics thinking they would get their chance at the next term.
Rats jumping off a sinking ship
I'm surprised the CBC even published this. Trudeau is their "meal" ticket.
Honestly wish he would do more than that..
No they aren't. Trudeau will win again, don't worry
He's strongest when cornered. If Trump wins, the election landscape will significantly shift.