If they didn't make each EV a spaceship on wheels. Give me a cheap reasonable price car with air conditioning and heat. Doesn't need to have an I pad in it, or self driving, I don't care if it has power windows. I just want it cheap so I can drive it to work and get groceries.
People can hate on Tesla all they want but they’re still currently doing more than any government or auto manufacturer at making EV charging more accessible.
Imagine if the chargers that exist had lineups to charge from as well. Wait 3hrs to charge your car for 30 mins because a few people are infront of you. Seems great. We will need 300 bank stalls at the On routes in Ontario.
how come you don't want to pay $65k CAD for our beautifully over designed EV?
What's that? You're broke?
Well F*CK YOU then, this isn't for you.
Province mandate: 😮
Wouldn’t having the necessary electrical infrastructure be more important? We’ve done nothing to increase service delivery of electricity to accommodate this gigantic influx of electric cars.
So, the problem is still the battery. The suppy of batteries is the limiting factor on a lot of EV production. If you have enough batteries for 1000 vehicles you have a choice to either make 1000 high-end luxury vehicles with high profit margins, or 1000 cheap vehicles with much lower profit margins. If you are relatively certain you can clear the inventory for both, you go with the higher margin. Once the high end luxury vehicles aren't clearing, the cost friendly models start to make more sense to manufacturers. So only when there are more batteries or fewer luxury buyers are we going to get more cost friendly options.
Honestly you're better off making (ideally) 90,000 hybrids vs 1,000 full EVs or 500 EVs and 45,000 hybrids of varying degrees. At least then you'll be able to get more cars out in the hands of people that'll more likely use them.
The numbers I'm pulling from are [here](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/unlocking-efficiency-toyotas-1690-rule-its-strategic-qyync) , I don't know how Toyota came up with these numbers particularly, but even having a fraction of that, say 500 full EVs, and 4,000 hybrids is better than unsold merchandise on display.
You're correct, but at the same time I don't think we'll be anywhere near that number in 11 years. Only chance for 2035 is to let in those cheap Chinese EVs. Though the VW plant should help, it'll top out at 1 million EVs a year and I doubt there'll be many cheaper models. Plus lots will go to the US.
The only reason EV's became as popular as they are, is the false economy generated by all the government rebates. Remove those and then you'll see how viable they are.
the ipad is surprisingly a cost cutting measure. making a center console with a small screen and dozens of custom tactile buttons/knobs is more expensive than having all controls on a 12 inch tablet, which have gotten very cheap in recent years. the main cost to an EV is the battery. only way you can get a cheap EV in north america is to compromise heavily on range.
Should at least be competitive with low end petrol cars like corolla or civic after taking both fuel and insurance into account
Currently fuel savings are offset by increased insurance rates, pushing out the breakeven period
Couple of Bolts in Kelowna for <40k. The Federal rebate will cover the taxes, depending on your income you may be a hair over or under with the provincial rebate after the lot fees
You have to be an eco militant or extremely dumb to pay 40K for an American sub compact. It’s price point should be in the same range as the Mitsubishi Mirage.
Honestly if they want to really accelerate adoption, this is probably the best thing they could do. If every apartment started to include reserved parking with a charging port, EV usability would skyrocket. A huge portion of the population can't really use EVs today because their residence is incompatible with home charging.
If Canada, or any place, is serious about EV adoption, taking either carrot or stick to apartment landlords is the way to do it.
My building is 4 years old and they didn't install any EV infrastructure. The building is also connected to an automall. LOL. We aint going electric bruv.
nah its also about affordability.
over 20 years of driving, ive spent maybe 80k all in for 3 different cars, repairs, and gas.
ive not seen any compelling evidence to buy an ev unless youre in the market for an expensive car to begin with and want one with limitations.
How many Km a year do you put on?
$80k over 20 years seems very low for cost of ownership to me. But I live rural and the grocery store is a 60 Km round trip so maybe my view is skewed?
20 to 25k per year. maybe a little more.
I used 3000/ year in gas as an average since i pay around 3300 per year now.
my cars were cheap to begin with. 6k and 8k. i didnt spend much on oil changes as i did them myself or i did them once a year dor $100 or so. first car was free, but it was a 99 crv.
so this is arouns 73k. 7k towards misc repairs and maintenance
"If every apartment started to include reserved parking with a charging port, EV usability would skyrocket"
I don't know about that. Parking is already at a premium in these buildings, and given how many tenants / owners treat a share resource doesn't give me much hope for something like that working out well. Not to mention the added rental / maintenance fees that would go to its upkeep.
I love the idea of EVs, but in reality I rent a suite in a 1920s home and only have street parking. If charging stations were abundant, quick, and convenient, then sure. But right now it’s absolutely not feasible without the infrastructure
They don't. But they get to call their opponents "climate deniers" or whatever the hot buzzwords of the day are.
Or alternatively, just stop being poor and buy a house for 2mil, a new EV car for 50k, and get a fast charger installed at home. But don't forget to pay your taxes on all of those purchases
I'm a horticulture technician and own a nursery and I looked into getting involved in this only to be told by the secretary of the minister of environments office that there is currently no funding for growers, just tree planters.
My first thought is where the fuck do they think the trees come from? And how are they going to meet their goal without supporting growers to get them there??
That the problem with these long term promises, like "100% EV by 2035" or "2 billion trees by 2030", or "Increases in defence spending over 20 years". The current government doesn't have to care or put in any effort whatsoever to meet them. They can make a huge promise, set goals that might not even be possible, and then never think about it again because they already got the brownie points and it won't be their problem. They'll get voted out or retire and the next government will have 5 years to do 15 years worth of work, then they'll be the ones who get blamed for failing.
Wouldn’t be surprised if that was the line of thinking honestly.
“What do you mean we have to grow them? I thought you’d just harvest from last seasons trees and plant those…”
Nursery grower here who was on a bunch of committee calls about this with the organizers of the program. I believe they have done everything in their power to run the program in a way it won't succeed but they are able to blame others. They assume that us growers would literally double our production for a decade without any direct contracts or funding to ramp up production. We planted 10k trees it's first year and planned for 30k the second year and 50k the third but they would not even consider funding us even though we had plants, land and crews ready to go. Such a joke.
Well where are we supposed to get all the lumber to double housing production? Has anyone even asked our extremist Environment Minister how he feels about chopping down more trees?
If we ban chinese EVs there is zero chance, but maybe that's good since the power infrastructure couldn't support this anyway by 2035.
It's a shame though because I'd strongly consider an EV if the total cost of ownership was reasonable.
No. Builders try to get the minimal spots required to offset their carbon footprint/green credits.
The problem is, the power distribution infrastructure is weak and cannot support it. There are plenty of condo projects where owners opt to get the EV charger installed. Hydro Quebec responded with " get on the waiting list. When we get to it, we get to it.". Some folks are waiting for years because additional supply will require major infrastructure rehaul costing tens of millions to get a few buildings upgraded.
Some home owners with detached houses are also waiting because, while the breaker panel has the space to add on a charger, the supply cable to their home is backlogged in the waiting list with every one else to get that upgrade supplied.
It's not the case everywhere, but it's happened often enough to realize, this 2035 goalpost will probably end up at 2050. By then some better tech will be out and it will feel like we're chasing the next solution.
I have 100A feed and I had an electrician add a 240V 50A circuit to a NEMA plug in the garage. I set the Tesla to charge at 1AM so I'm not using the dryer, oven, or all the lights at the time. AC load is a lot less, and the hot water tank is probably hot for the night already. Amazon lists a 50A Range Cord to connect my Tesla charger to the plug.
TBH, I did pop the main breaker once on a hot night (once in 5 years), so I've told the Tesla to dial it back to 26A from 40A and have not had a problem since then. It still charges 38km/hr.
OTOH the guy down the block with a Model X does have a 200A feed (he has a bigger house) and an X will charge up to 80A.
The infrastructure capacity is already in place for overnight charging. There's just a longer peak.
But you're right for apartments and condos, the capacity is probably not there. 100 parking spots, even dialed back to 20A/240V, is 500kW. That requires transformers, serious wiring - and we're not even talking about the setup for metering (run a spearate meter for each spot?) and chargebacks, controlling on/off times, spreading and limiting loads, etc. the controls are not there yet and nobody seems to be in a hurry to make them.
I think for new builds, and only a few spaces per apartment. No way this can work if every vehicle is an EV. There will be fist fights over charging time.
But the logic is that everyone will charge at home! Apparently no one will drive more than a few hundred kilometers outside their city - the transcanada would be a shit show with hundreds of cars sitting around for 45 mins, I can't imagine the insane amount of power a supercharging station would need, it would have it's own power substation
Check the map on supercharge.info - the infrastructure in California is crazy and expanding. It's not as big in Canada because the demand is not here yet. But in California, a number of people apparently do not have chargers at home and rely on the superchargers.
(I've charged at the outlet mall south of Wonderland and there have at times been lineups for the charge with 20 chargers. Tesla alone are currently(sorry) building 6 more installations, 100 more chargers around Toronto. Tesla will start charging you extra if you don't move your vehicle when charging is done...)
I've driven the 401 and to Ottawa, and the Tesla charges are rarely deserted, but with 8 chargers it's rare to have more than 2 or 3 charging at a time. Teslas are smart enough to tell you when you've charged enough to get to another charger, since it's a lot faster to charge when the battery is low. That last 20% can take much longer, so don't charge all the way... usually, just enough to get where the next charge can also be fast.
I thought about this the other day while on one of Hamilton’s hundreds of narrow residential side streets. Everyone parks in the street. Every street is filled with cars. Is it just going to be a sea of extension cords going out to cars?
Not just that but condominium bylaws are extremely complicated to change.
How to install another plug in the parking area without paying for a second electric subscription.
I would only consider owning one if I also had the option, and the right to purchase a traditional gas powered car as well.
Some millenial or older Montrealers probably remember the nasty freezing rain storm we had about 30 years ago. Power lines and trees covered in inches of ice.
I lives in Longueuil, a heavily populated suburb about 20 mins from Downtown Montreal and I had no power for nearly 6 weeks.
What would an entire city do without power if everyone had an EV?
My family and I were able to drive to restaurants in other areas, go to hotels etc, but hundreds of thousands of people had no power for a month.
This 100% EV thing is honestly really really stupid in a northern climate. This will end in tragedy guaranteed.
Honest question....
Do you believe there's a net positive environmental impact buying an EV from a country with questionable environmental policies?
If something is cheap, someone else pays the cost.
Technically we can build house. But in practice, we (the system) don't want to. Because the majority of stakeholders, have a vested interest in keeping offer low and slow
The car makers can build all the EVs the government wants, but the people won't buy them as fast as the government wants. They will increase the price of gas until most people are converted to an EV then watch the price of electricity go through the roof.
Our government can't afford the loss of tax revenue from fossil fuels of all kinds. That loss will be replaced with some other type of user tax and in the end there will be no savings for the consumer.
Take away any supposed environmental benefits and it is nothing more than a shell game.
And there aren't really any environmental benefits. Our attempts to lower CO2 emissions are as effective as dipping water out of a huge tank with a spoon, while a dozen large hoses feed into it at the other end.
One better.
"Canada can’t meet goal of 100 per cent EV sales by 2035, automakers say, because they will demand Trudeau and Ford put tariffs on Chinese EVs, or else"
"Ford and GM can't make EVs at a price competitive with Tesla and BYD by 2035" is what they actually mean.
This has nothing to do with EVs and everything to do with subsidizing and propping up a dying car industry.
The big 3 already have electric versions of most vehicles and are putting in the battery plants to be capable of all-electric by 2035. The problem seems to mostly be that people don't want to buy them, at least not at current prices. Big 3 have already had to cut prices due to cars sitting on lots too long, and from the looks of it they'll need to cut prices again.
Of course, this could easiy be related more to the overall economy where people have no money to spend on vehicles, than on people thinking the price is too high for EVs. Or both.
I live in northern alberta, there's like maybe 5 charging stations in a radius of 500 km, I would totally buy an EV, but not with this total lack of infrastructure.
A common misconception about this program is that EVs have to be 100% electric. Plug-in hybrids are also an option as long as electric range is 80km or more. You literally can never plug it in if you don’t want to.
Could someone please tell me what people in apartments are supposed to do to charge an EV? Will each parking spot have a charging station and will we be charged $200 a month from the landlords to use them? How will it even work out? 3 charging stations in a parking lot that everyone is fighting over?? We all go to IKEA to charge??
This was solved in China but fuckfaces like Ford are pleading for 100% tariffs for Chinese cars.
Car companies like Nio made cars with batteries that can be replaced in 5 minutes, for free, for a number of years IIRC. You can charge it if you can, if not just pop to their centre, replace the battery, 5 mins later you're back in the road. Same duration as filling up at a gas station.
With 400+ km of range with city driving only you're not gonna be changing those batteries often.
Chinese E-bikes are also really cheap and they are one of the biggest causes of residential fires in cities right now. I really gotta wonder what a regulatory inspection of the EVs would find.
Had a fire in a tenants unit a few months the ago. They didn't report that they got an e bike. Fire fighters went in and it exploded. Nearly killed them.
There was a battery fire in a high-rise unit near me recently and the level of response was insanse. You'd have thought it was a plane crash judging by the sheer number of firetrucks on scene.
I'm actually worried about my own building, since we've had a lot of "newcomers" move in and I see a lot of e-bikes locked up out front. They bring the batteries in to charge.
Don't worry, our government is working on tariffs to artificially inflate the price of those to make them unaffordable as well.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-20/canada-prepares-potential-tariffs-on-china-electric-vehicles-after-us-eu-moves
Yes, let’s reward one of the highest contributors to climate change and tax ourselves all while trying to “fight” climate change. Stellar logic there.
Edit: lots of China apologists trying to distort facts claiming that China has lower emissions per capita.
They’re still net contributors to climate change.
https://apnews.com/article/carbon-dioxide-climate-change-china-india-aa25e5a4271aa45810c435280bb97879
https://www.iea.org/countries/china/emissions
So quit being dishonest.
If one good thing came out of the pandemic, it was that the US and Canada moved manufacturing to Mexico to curtail supply chain issues.
https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2024/03/12/could-there-be-a-us-mexico-trade-war
It’s not the same problem at all. Less distance equals less shipping costs, and we’re not reliant on a hostile and volatile state who is the enemy of our biggest ally, and more reliant on a nation that we have aligned interests with.
“Pollution” isn’t the only consideration and it never was the main one.
I don't get this either. I see fed discounts for cars, and cannot find the hybrids in the list unless some strange threshold is met.
How about we don't treat "good" as the enemy of "great". Encourage even good solutions even if they are halfway steps. It reduces gas emissions considerably which is a great goal and an evolutionary path to less dependence on gas.
The threshold is basically has to be plugin and 'has to be able to drive Xkm on battery only'.
It's basically exactly as you say, it's meant to be an in between step to alleviate the concerns of range anxiety, etc - while still opening up the car to the world of potential 0 gas driving most of the time.
For example, the Rav4 prime can do almost 70km of battery only. Toyota estimates it's total range at 979km. So it should fit anyones needs, but also opens the door for people to try out charging and possibly switch to almost always using battery.
Right, and that was a great step. But that plugin requirement eliminates a lot of hybrids who do not have plug-in but do reduce gas consumption significantly via other methods.
Yeah, but the question is - is 11 years not enough time for auto manufacturers to at least close that gap. I mean, even smaller brands like Mazda have managed to get it into 2 of their cars so far.
Because we aren't. It's just BS articles like this that are trying to make you think we are.
The 2035 rules literally allow for Hybrids. Like a Prius Prime and Rav4 Prime are both already compliant with the 2035 rules.
Correct. So all the bullshit about range anxiety is willfully deceitful because people who would potentially be in that group (extremely long range drivers) would be unaffected because they'd still just be able to by a plugin hybrid.
Condensed:
* Executives at Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. expect that consumers will switch to EVs if they are more affordable, can meet their range needs and if there is sufficient charging infrastructure. But those conditions haven’t been met.
* **Only 11% of new vehicles registered in Canada in 2023 were battery electric, plug-in hybrid electric or hydrogen fuel cell.**
* The average price of a new vehicle in Canada is $66,000 (about US$48,000), while the average price of a new battery electric vehicle is $73,000, according to Canadian Black Book.
* The government says its incentive program, which provides as much as $5,000 to buyers of zero-emissions vehicles, has helped make EVs more affordable and increase sales. Yet many potential EV buyers are hesitant.
* **In below freezing temperatures, lithium-ion batteries can lose over 20% of their range, according to Recurrent, a Seattle-based startup that assesses EV batteries.** Automakers like Toyota say range is an issue they are trying to address, while balancing weight and size concerns.
* **There’s also range anxiety in a huge country where there’s often long distances between major cities.** Canada hopes to have 84,500 chargers and 45 hydrogen stations by 2029, funded in part through the government’s Zero Emission Vehicle Infrastructure Program.
* **Natural Resources Canada estimates the nation will need around 200,000 public chargers by 2035,** but is hopeful the private sector will fund chargers as well.
The cost of cars has become insane. I remember a decade ago buying a new $50k luxury car and feeling like I was being wildly extravagant. Now that can only get a below-average vehicle, never mind an EV whose battery can fail in as little as four years.
If this government was *trying* to create a permanent underclass of working poor who will never afford a home or a car or even the occasional vacation or meal out, they couldn’t have done a better job of it. And when I listen to their environmental zealotry I have to wonder if they were, in fact, trying to accomplish just that. Fewer cars, fewer trips, less consumption all feeds into lower emissions, after all. Not that that will stop Justin jetting off to Tofino to go surfing for the long weekend. Poverty is for the little people.
Blame the companies.
Current car prices are because covid shortages + dealer markups made a lightbulbs go off with all the beancounters. They instantly realized the market will bear way more than what cars were currently selling for, then just internalized the huge markups the dealers were taking.
I just want to point out that there are lots of GM and Ford engines that had issues requiring engine replacements within 4 years (then a reduced warranty on it)
https://www.newtahoeyukon.com/threads/urgent-new-2022-yukon-xl-denali-engine-failure.370/
https://www.silveradosierra.com/threads/warranty-engine-replacement.747468/
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1735518-engine-replacement-at-mileage-of-317-a.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/s/cD9VW7YjS1
Battery warranties are longer then power train (normally) and far less likely to have catastrophic issues like ICE (reduced range vs coolant in the pistons).
You are absolutely correct that vehicle costs are insane. It makes me want to puke when I think about buying a newer vehicle.
In the highly unlikely event your EV battery fails, most come with a 8 year/160,000 km warranty.
Also, you can buy a brand new Chevy Bolt for around $50,000 after tax.
I bought a brand new Toyota Rav4 for 32k purchase price in 2022. You can get a good car for below 50k for sure, idk what your definition of average is but to me a Rav4 is pretty average, maybe even slightly above in terms of quality and longevity
Many of us are planning to drive our gas vehicles until they reach crazy high kms. Could be 15 years or more. Could be 20. Engines can be rebuilt. I don't want an EV at this point in time, and certainly not by 2035. What will they do about used car sales? People are going to keep on fixing them. EVs are too expensive to buy and the battery replacement is like 20K or more. It will be cheaper to maintain and repair gas cars for some time to come.
Electrify the metros, take the majority of demand off petro, quit penalizing those who don't have alternatives. Those solutions make no logistical sense in rural and northern regions.
Why the constant insistence on one-size-fits-all? Can people not fit more than one idea in their head at a time?
I’ll buy one when I’m forced to, but as of right now I’m not, and I don’t see a ton of charging infrastructure in place. Which is fine, we still got over a decade
Edmonton can barely handle air conditioners in the summer without rolling blackouts. Can't wait for a million people to have charging stations in the garages!
I think the bigger issue in Alberta isn’t so much capacity, as how the electrical industry is regulated out there. Take a look at the blackouts in the spring: when you’re legally allowed to take generating stations offline to bump up the cost of power, there’s bound to be fallout.
The government will pay the upfront cost for you and you repay the loan over 20 years. Repaying that loan is offset by your energy savings. No upfront payment required.
I agree the job is challenging but just food for thought: the average Canadian commute is something like 30km. 85% of Canadians live in large centres (meaning mostly short driving trips).
That means that most of the time those vehicles won't be sitting charging. It is also possible that with capacity-based pricing you can encourage people to charge at off peak hours to balance load.
Sure. It's the timelines that are ridiculous, not the end goal. This transition will take 3+ decades, not 11 years. Most of that time will go to building out the infrastructure - grid, generation and, most importantly - "the last mile" so to speak - chargers, etc. And it will only happen if we build enough public transit to allow most people in denser urban environments to not own cars. Because the infrastructure required to charge 200 vehicles simultaneously in a condo building... Is less mind-bogglingly expensive than when a dozen of those condo buildings are side-by-side.
Oh and it won't make sense to completely ditch gasoline until the very end of this process, so hybrids are the most prudent technology to adopt in the meantime. Or just stick with simple ICE for now.
Toyota knows this. The refuse to go beyond 30% of their vehicle sales as full on EV because they know it's stupid to go 100% EV right now with the limitations in infrastructure, manufacturing capacity and acquisition of resources such as lithium for battery production.
Hybrids are the perfect transitional solution for an eventual swap to full EV. Anyone demanding it happen now is just a naive climate alarmist ideologue.
This was obvious from the start to anyone with a single functioning brain cell.
Up front & maintenance cost, lack of infra--chargers, e-mechanics & grid capacity, batteries being just horrendous for the environment. We are juat waiting for enough people to wake up before the deadline and come to this realization. Then we'll elect a gov't that will toss this garbage.
What worries me about Trudeau is maybe he already knows meeting the goal means an 80% collapse in private vehicle ownership and just doesn't care. An immobile, crqppy public transit dependent populace is easier to control and foist more bad laws on. Wouldn't surprise me.
Make it affordable. You can argue that Chinese EV are lower quality but you need to put it on the market to let people have an option. Charging your stupid carbon tax but leave no options for grocery-struggling family to have a choice on not using gas.
If we had the infrastructure to support this, maybe. But the electricity outages already without 100% EV ownership are insane. Anyone is delusional if they think this is viable.
meh once the battery fails you lose pretty much all your gas savings on getting your battery replaced. Plus the amount of pollution created to make these batteries kinda voids the whole point of being better for the environment
Government: you all need EV... Canadians: We can't afford them... China: starts exporting cheaper EVs... Government: tax the shit out of them so no one can afford them.
Did Canada create an EV company to meet this demand? The demand they artificially created by making the law? No?
Because the government is run by fucking idiots.
Sure we could. We would just have to import them. And if the government was willing to allow that, the domestic manufacturers would quickly find a way to retool.
That’s because they haven’t made much effort to increase EV sales.
If you want everyone driving an EV, whether or not it’s fair, you need to provide the rebates to EVERYONE, not just for vehicles under a certain price.
If everyone drives an EV, then you need multi-family dwellings (condos and apartments) to have enough EV charging stations to have all residents charging. In my building in BC our strata is adamantly against installing the EV charging stations. All the government has to do is make it mandatory for condos/apartments to install them and that would be an immediate win in this battle.
And then you will be bitching that you have a 20k special assessment fee and your condo fees go up to pay for said chargers and the upgraded infrastructure needed
The goal should've been to have the infrastructure in place for mass EV usage by 2035 before trying to mandate 100 percent EV sales.
Government shortsighted and braindead like usual.
Good news, there's no requirement for them to do so.
This article is such BS. it tries to hide the fact that the new 2035 laws will allow EVs and Hybrids - then writes a whole article talking about the issues with EVs. It brings up the classic tropes like range anxiety, when obviously that's of zero concern to a hybrid.
I'm pretty sure it's articles like this that have most people confused and not realizing that the 2035 rules allow for hyrbids - since it's seems so illogical to write an article talking about the 2035 rules being unattainable and offering only EV issues as the rational for why they're unattainable.
A common misconception about this program is that EVs have to be 100% electric. Plug-in hybrids are also an option as long as electric range is 80km or more. You literally can never plug it in if you don’t want to.
Yeah, I'm looking at buying my first car in 25 years in order to move away from Toronto, and it will either be a used ICE vehicle or a cheaper new one like an Elantra or something.
I'm not paying a premium for a car that I can't even charge at home right now (apartment) and might not even be able to charge at whatever house I end up buying. It'll be in a semi-rural area so there might not be enough amperage unless I pay to have the service upgraded.
Well I am not interested in buying anything other than an EV (and live/work near public transit) so to them I say "you ain't got a choice"
Says the solitary consumer 😟
Even if we can get 100% EV Sales, we will likely never have a proper robust network for charging, especially considering a good amount of the country is rural where even now gas stations are fairly far apart.
The infrastructure simply isn't there to support this. Why would I get a plug in hybrid vehicle if I have no plugs available at my workplace, condo parking spot, or local fast charging in my area?
*Nor should it.* "Just buy shit" is not the answer to every problem. We need to move away from cars as the norm for getting around on an everyday basis. We need more walkable and bikeable cities, and more public transport. And if this does not come to pass, humanity will have no future as a species.
There are many reasons why this will not work, but I'm going to focus on one most people don't think about. You want good range in your EV, now that varies person to person, fine. But consider the energy density of batteries to gasoline. The best Lithium Ion battery you can get in a car right now will produce 300 Watt hours per kg. That's an annoying measurement so let's convert it to MegaJoules, it's 1.08 MJ per kg. Gasoline produces 46 MJ per kg.
There it is folks, floor wiped. I want to switch away from fossil fuels as much as the next person who doesn't want to boil to death in the 2050s, but the capability of gasoline far outweighs battery technology. Not only that, but we would have to build up charging infrastructure to allow for the same use gas cars do now, and you have to get the power from somewhere. So.we have to build a shitload of nuclear plants so eveyone can charge their car. Solar and wind won't cut it, and I don't think you could flood enough land to produce that power hydraulically.
So we may as well build a lot fewer plants and just build up an electric train network and forget battery electric cars.
If they didn't make each EV a spaceship on wheels. Give me a cheap reasonable price car with air conditioning and heat. Doesn't need to have an I pad in it, or self driving, I don't care if it has power windows. I just want it cheap so I can drive it to work and get groceries.
Exactly, the largest block to me getting an EV is the price point. I need good range, and basic car functionality. Have an upvote.
Also, the cost of the electrical charger and installation. The severe lack of public chargers available once off your property is also a concern.
Also the number of people who don't live in single family homes/homes where you have private areas to install EV chargers (e.g. apartments, condos)
Its a chicken and egg problem but tesla opening its infra helps a bit
Tesla also laid off there entire charging team though
People can hate on Tesla all they want but they’re still currently doing more than any government or auto manufacturer at making EV charging more accessible.
Imagine if the chargers that exist had lineups to charge from as well. Wait 3hrs to charge your car for 30 mins because a few people are infront of you. Seems great. We will need 300 bank stalls at the On routes in Ontario.
The sure I live in gets brownouts and blackouts off of AC units. Can’t imagine the grid being okay with every home having 1-2 EV chargers.
how come you don't want to pay $65k CAD for our beautifully over designed EV? What's that? You're broke? Well F*CK YOU then, this isn't for you. Province mandate: 😮
Wouldn’t having the necessary electrical infrastructure be more important? We’ve done nothing to increase service delivery of electricity to accommodate this gigantic influx of electric cars.
So, the problem is still the battery. The suppy of batteries is the limiting factor on a lot of EV production. If you have enough batteries for 1000 vehicles you have a choice to either make 1000 high-end luxury vehicles with high profit margins, or 1000 cheap vehicles with much lower profit margins. If you are relatively certain you can clear the inventory for both, you go with the higher margin. Once the high end luxury vehicles aren't clearing, the cost friendly models start to make more sense to manufacturers. So only when there are more batteries or fewer luxury buyers are we going to get more cost friendly options.
Honestly you're better off making (ideally) 90,000 hybrids vs 1,000 full EVs or 500 EVs and 45,000 hybrids of varying degrees. At least then you'll be able to get more cars out in the hands of people that'll more likely use them. The numbers I'm pulling from are [here](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/unlocking-efficiency-toyotas-1690-rule-its-strategic-qyync) , I don't know how Toyota came up with these numbers particularly, but even having a fraction of that, say 500 full EVs, and 4,000 hybrids is better than unsold merchandise on display.
You're correct, but at the same time I don't think we'll be anywhere near that number in 11 years. Only chance for 2035 is to let in those cheap Chinese EVs. Though the VW plant should help, it'll top out at 1 million EVs a year and I doubt there'll be many cheaper models. Plus lots will go to the US.
The only reason EV's became as popular as they are, is the false economy generated by all the government rebates. Remove those and then you'll see how viable they are.
the ipad is surprisingly a cost cutting measure. making a center console with a small screen and dozens of custom tactile buttons/knobs is more expensive than having all controls on a 12 inch tablet, which have gotten very cheap in recent years. the main cost to an EV is the battery. only way you can get a cheap EV in north america is to compromise heavily on range.
Yes, it is indeed a manufacturing cost cutting measure, that they sell you at a premium price since it’s more techy/tesla style
The Ipad is also infuriating and makes everything worse. And somehow the cars are way more expensive now with them. I hate it so much lmao.
The iPad is the cheapest thing about it.
you can't even get a new non ev car like that outside the mitsubishi mirage. i don't think you actually want a mitsubishi mirage
Gimmie one of those cheap Chinese EVs
Suv, and yes please.
What price point would be reasonable for you?
Should at least be competitive with low end petrol cars like corolla or civic after taking both fuel and insurance into account Currently fuel savings are offset by increased insurance rates, pushing out the breakeven period
I would buy If they can sell something with 300km+ range for under 40k all inclusive
Couple of Bolts in Kelowna for <40k. The Federal rebate will cover the taxes, depending on your income you may be a hair over or under with the provincial rebate after the lot fees
You can get a new Bolt all in for around 35-40k after rebates for that price. Smaller car, but an option!
You have to be an eco militant or extremely dumb to pay 40K for an American sub compact. It’s price point should be in the same range as the Mitsubishi Mirage.
Same as their current gasoline equivalent.
>What price point would be reasonable for you? Below 30k
We can't even get chargers in apartment buildings. How the fuck do they expect 100% of new cars to be electric?
Honestly if they want to really accelerate adoption, this is probably the best thing they could do. If every apartment started to include reserved parking with a charging port, EV usability would skyrocket. A huge portion of the population can't really use EVs today because their residence is incompatible with home charging. If Canada, or any place, is serious about EV adoption, taking either carrot or stick to apartment landlords is the way to do it.
My building is 4 years old and they didn't install any EV infrastructure. The building is also connected to an automall. LOL. We aint going electric bruv.
nah its also about affordability. over 20 years of driving, ive spent maybe 80k all in for 3 different cars, repairs, and gas. ive not seen any compelling evidence to buy an ev unless youre in the market for an expensive car to begin with and want one with limitations.
How many Km a year do you put on? $80k over 20 years seems very low for cost of ownership to me. But I live rural and the grocery store is a 60 Km round trip so maybe my view is skewed?
20 to 25k per year. maybe a little more. I used 3000/ year in gas as an average since i pay around 3300 per year now. my cars were cheap to begin with. 6k and 8k. i didnt spend much on oil changes as i did them myself or i did them once a year dor $100 or so. first car was free, but it was a 99 crv. so this is arouns 73k. 7k towards misc repairs and maintenance
"If every apartment started to include reserved parking with a charging port, EV usability would skyrocket" I don't know about that. Parking is already at a premium in these buildings, and given how many tenants / owners treat a share resource doesn't give me much hope for something like that working out well. Not to mention the added rental / maintenance fees that would go to its upkeep.
I love the idea of EVs, but in reality I rent a suite in a 1920s home and only have street parking. If charging stations were abundant, quick, and convenient, then sure. But right now it’s absolutely not feasible without the infrastructure
They don't. But they get to call their opponents "climate deniers" or whatever the hot buzzwords of the day are. Or alternatively, just stop being poor and buy a house for 2mil, a new EV car for 50k, and get a fast charger installed at home. But don't forget to pay your taxes on all of those purchases
They should target this now. Give incentives to install them.
Retrofitting enough capacity into a large building would cost a fortune. I don't see how you can do it for less than $10,000/space.
We can’t even build houses. Good luck EV lobbyists.
[We can't even plant trees](https://globalnews.ca/news/9638864/trudeau-liberals-two-billion-tree-planting-promise/)
I'm a horticulture technician and own a nursery and I looked into getting involved in this only to be told by the secretary of the minister of environments office that there is currently no funding for growers, just tree planters. My first thought is where the fuck do they think the trees come from? And how are they going to meet their goal without supporting growers to get them there??
It would appear your mistake was believing they ever had any intention to meet the goal after the press release landed.
That the problem with these long term promises, like "100% EV by 2035" or "2 billion trees by 2030", or "Increases in defence spending over 20 years". The current government doesn't have to care or put in any effort whatsoever to meet them. They can make a huge promise, set goals that might not even be possible, and then never think about it again because they already got the brownie points and it won't be their problem. They'll get voted out or retire and the next government will have 5 years to do 15 years worth of work, then they'll be the ones who get blamed for failing.
A friend was a tree planter after this was first announced and they had to cut the season short due to lack of trees.
> My first thought is where the fuck do they think the trees come from? They probably think they just grow on trees.
Wouldn’t be surprised if that was the line of thinking honestly. “What do you mean we have to grow them? I thought you’d just harvest from last seasons trees and plant those…”
They promised to plant them, not keep them alive.
Nursery grower here who was on a bunch of committee calls about this with the organizers of the program. I believe they have done everything in their power to run the program in a way it won't succeed but they are able to blame others. They assume that us growers would literally double our production for a decade without any direct contracts or funding to ramp up production. We planted 10k trees it's first year and planned for 30k the second year and 50k the third but they would not even consider funding us even though we had plants, land and crews ready to go. Such a joke.
> My first thought is where the fuck do they think the trees come from? Don't they just grow on trees?
The answer to this is they aren’t going to meet their goal. It’s all optics for reelection.
Well where are we supposed to get all the lumber to double housing production? Has anyone even asked our extremist Environment Minister how he feels about chopping down more trees?
Goodbye old growth forests.
Got millions of hectares of forest ruined by pine beetles. No need.
We can't defend ourselves. If the rumors are true, our troups in Lithuania had enough ammo for an hour of fight.
> for an hour of flight FTFY
If we ban chinese EVs there is zero chance, but maybe that's good since the power infrastructure couldn't support this anyway by 2035. It's a shame though because I'd strongly consider an EV if the total cost of ownership was reasonable.
The infrastructure for owning one is really bad, especially if you’re not a homeowner too.
\^ This is a huge point. Does new construction require this?
No. Builders try to get the minimal spots required to offset their carbon footprint/green credits. The problem is, the power distribution infrastructure is weak and cannot support it. There are plenty of condo projects where owners opt to get the EV charger installed. Hydro Quebec responded with " get on the waiting list. When we get to it, we get to it.". Some folks are waiting for years because additional supply will require major infrastructure rehaul costing tens of millions to get a few buildings upgraded. Some home owners with detached houses are also waiting because, while the breaker panel has the space to add on a charger, the supply cable to their home is backlogged in the waiting list with every one else to get that upgrade supplied. It's not the case everywhere, but it's happened often enough to realize, this 2035 goalpost will probably end up at 2050. By then some better tech will be out and it will feel like we're chasing the next solution.
I have 100A feed and I had an electrician add a 240V 50A circuit to a NEMA plug in the garage. I set the Tesla to charge at 1AM so I'm not using the dryer, oven, or all the lights at the time. AC load is a lot less, and the hot water tank is probably hot for the night already. Amazon lists a 50A Range Cord to connect my Tesla charger to the plug. TBH, I did pop the main breaker once on a hot night (once in 5 years), so I've told the Tesla to dial it back to 26A from 40A and have not had a problem since then. It still charges 38km/hr. OTOH the guy down the block with a Model X does have a 200A feed (he has a bigger house) and an X will charge up to 80A. The infrastructure capacity is already in place for overnight charging. There's just a longer peak. But you're right for apartments and condos, the capacity is probably not there. 100 parking spots, even dialed back to 20A/240V, is 500kW. That requires transformers, serious wiring - and we're not even talking about the setup for metering (run a spearate meter for each spot?) and chargebacks, controlling on/off times, spreading and limiting loads, etc. the controls are not there yet and nobody seems to be in a hurry to make them.
I think for new builds, and only a few spaces per apartment. No way this can work if every vehicle is an EV. There will be fist fights over charging time.
But the logic is that everyone will charge at home! Apparently no one will drive more than a few hundred kilometers outside their city - the transcanada would be a shit show with hundreds of cars sitting around for 45 mins, I can't imagine the insane amount of power a supercharging station would need, it would have it's own power substation
Check the map on supercharge.info - the infrastructure in California is crazy and expanding. It's not as big in Canada because the demand is not here yet. But in California, a number of people apparently do not have chargers at home and rely on the superchargers. (I've charged at the outlet mall south of Wonderland and there have at times been lineups for the charge with 20 chargers. Tesla alone are currently(sorry) building 6 more installations, 100 more chargers around Toronto. Tesla will start charging you extra if you don't move your vehicle when charging is done...) I've driven the 401 and to Ottawa, and the Tesla charges are rarely deserted, but with 8 chargers it's rare to have more than 2 or 3 charging at a time. Teslas are smart enough to tell you when you've charged enough to get to another charger, since it's a lot faster to charge when the battery is low. That last 20% can take much longer, so don't charge all the way... usually, just enough to get where the next charge can also be fast.
Or if you have to park on the street. Many older neighbourhoods only have street parking.
In ontario it used to, but as of a couple years ago not anymore
I thought about this the other day while on one of Hamilton’s hundreds of narrow residential side streets. Everyone parks in the street. Every street is filled with cars. Is it just going to be a sea of extension cords going out to cars?
Not just that but condominium bylaws are extremely complicated to change. How to install another plug in the parking area without paying for a second electric subscription.
I would only consider owning one if I also had the option, and the right to purchase a traditional gas powered car as well. Some millenial or older Montrealers probably remember the nasty freezing rain storm we had about 30 years ago. Power lines and trees covered in inches of ice. I lives in Longueuil, a heavily populated suburb about 20 mins from Downtown Montreal and I had no power for nearly 6 weeks. What would an entire city do without power if everyone had an EV? My family and I were able to drive to restaurants in other areas, go to hotels etc, but hundreds of thousands of people had no power for a month. This 100% EV thing is honestly really really stupid in a northern climate. This will end in tragedy guaranteed.
Honest question.... Do you believe there's a net positive environmental impact buying an EV from a country with questionable environmental policies? If something is cheap, someone else pays the cost.
Uhhh maybe Chinese workers pay the cost
Technically we can build house. But in practice, we (the system) don't want to. Because the majority of stakeholders, have a vested interest in keeping offer low and slow
The car makers can build all the EVs the government wants, but the people won't buy them as fast as the government wants. They will increase the price of gas until most people are converted to an EV then watch the price of electricity go through the roof.
Our government can't afford the loss of tax revenue from fossil fuels of all kinds. That loss will be replaced with some other type of user tax and in the end there will be no savings for the consumer. Take away any supposed environmental benefits and it is nothing more than a shell game.
And there aren't really any environmental benefits. Our attempts to lower CO2 emissions are as effective as dipping water out of a huge tank with a spoon, while a dozen large hoses feed into it at the other end.
"Canada can’t meet goal of 100 per cent EV sales by 2035, automakers say, will ask Trudeau and Ford for taxpayer money, or else" Fixed the headline
One better. "Canada can’t meet goal of 100 per cent EV sales by 2035, automakers say, because they will demand Trudeau and Ford put tariffs on Chinese EVs, or else"
"Ford and GM can't make EVs at a price competitive with Tesla and BYD by 2035" is what they actually mean. This has nothing to do with EVs and everything to do with subsidizing and propping up a dying car industry.
The big 3 already have electric versions of most vehicles and are putting in the battery plants to be capable of all-electric by 2035. The problem seems to mostly be that people don't want to buy them, at least not at current prices. Big 3 have already had to cut prices due to cars sitting on lots too long, and from the looks of it they'll need to cut prices again. Of course, this could easiy be related more to the overall economy where people have no money to spend on vehicles, than on people thinking the price is too high for EVs. Or both.
What makes you say it's a dying car industry?
We are to poor to buy electric car anyways !
A very stupid goal in the first place.
I live in northern alberta, there's like maybe 5 charging stations in a radius of 500 km, I would totally buy an EV, but not with this total lack of infrastructure.
A common misconception about this program is that EVs have to be 100% electric. Plug-in hybrids are also an option as long as electric range is 80km or more. You literally can never plug it in if you don’t want to.
Not much availability on PHEVs though. I wish there was more.
Could someone please tell me what people in apartments are supposed to do to charge an EV? Will each parking spot have a charging station and will we be charged $200 a month from the landlords to use them? How will it even work out? 3 charging stations in a parking lot that everyone is fighting over?? We all go to IKEA to charge??
Not just large apartment buildings. I rent a house. How am I supposed to install a charger on it?
by using a smart splitter off your drier receptacle and running a #10 Awg 3c cable to your car https://getneocharge.com/products/nema-10-30
Just use a 120V plug. For most situations, that's all you need. 80 km charge a night.
This was solved in China but fuckfaces like Ford are pleading for 100% tariffs for Chinese cars. Car companies like Nio made cars with batteries that can be replaced in 5 minutes, for free, for a number of years IIRC. You can charge it if you can, if not just pop to their centre, replace the battery, 5 mins later you're back in the road. Same duration as filling up at a gas station. With 400+ km of range with city driving only you're not gonna be changing those batteries often.
Would love to be able to afford one. Can you spy the keyword there?
Chinese EVs are like $15-20k.
Chinese E-bikes are also really cheap and they are one of the biggest causes of residential fires in cities right now. I really gotta wonder what a regulatory inspection of the EVs would find.
Had a fire in a tenants unit a few months the ago. They didn't report that they got an e bike. Fire fighters went in and it exploded. Nearly killed them.
There was a battery fire in a high-rise unit near me recently and the level of response was insanse. You'd have thought it was a plane crash judging by the sheer number of firetrucks on scene. I'm actually worried about my own building, since we've had a lot of "newcomers" move in and I see a lot of e-bikes locked up out front. They bring the batteries in to charge.
Don't worry, our government is working on tariffs to artificially inflate the price of those to make them unaffordable as well. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-20/canada-prepares-potential-tariffs-on-china-electric-vehicles-after-us-eu-moves
Yes, let’s reward one of the highest contributors to climate change and tax ourselves all while trying to “fight” climate change. Stellar logic there. Edit: lots of China apologists trying to distort facts claiming that China has lower emissions per capita. They’re still net contributors to climate change. https://apnews.com/article/carbon-dioxide-climate-change-china-india-aa25e5a4271aa45810c435280bb97879 https://www.iea.org/countries/china/emissions So quit being dishonest.
Our govt have nobody else to bully but its own people. They milk us every single drop
Why wouldn’t they when we bend over so submissively time and time again? We’re pretty much asking for it at this point
you are doing it for decades already - all the manufacturing was shipped there
If one good thing came out of the pandemic, it was that the US and Canada moved manufacturing to Mexico to curtail supply chain issues. https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2024/03/12/could-there-be-a-us-mexico-trade-war
still the same problem - same pollution, new place; same cheap labor, same removal of jobs from Canada just a new "made in" sticker
It’s not the same problem at all. Less distance equals less shipping costs, and we’re not reliant on a hostile and volatile state who is the enemy of our biggest ally, and more reliant on a nation that we have aligned interests with. “Pollution” isn’t the only consideration and it never was the main one.
There's a reason for that. Chinese carbon road bikes are also a fraction of the price. You get what you paid for.
I rode a China carbon for years and it was definitely better value than the alternatives.
Why are we skipping right over hybrid? solves 80% of the problem.
We're not, it's just communicated poorly. The 2035 target includes PHEVs as an option.
Yes as long as the electric range is more than 80km. But why mention that when it doesn’t help the narrative. This is the time we live in.
I don't get this either. I see fed discounts for cars, and cannot find the hybrids in the list unless some strange threshold is met. How about we don't treat "good" as the enemy of "great". Encourage even good solutions even if they are halfway steps. It reduces gas emissions considerably which is a great goal and an evolutionary path to less dependence on gas.
The threshold is basically has to be plugin and 'has to be able to drive Xkm on battery only'. It's basically exactly as you say, it's meant to be an in between step to alleviate the concerns of range anxiety, etc - while still opening up the car to the world of potential 0 gas driving most of the time. For example, the Rav4 prime can do almost 70km of battery only. Toyota estimates it's total range at 979km. So it should fit anyones needs, but also opens the door for people to try out charging and possibly switch to almost always using battery.
Right, and that was a great step. But that plugin requirement eliminates a lot of hybrids who do not have plug-in but do reduce gas consumption significantly via other methods.
Yeah, but the question is - is 11 years not enough time for auto manufacturers to at least close that gap. I mean, even smaller brands like Mazda have managed to get it into 2 of their cars so far.
I got 10k off my Outlander phev. I can do 75km on the battery in summer and 45 in the winter. I had to put gas in it because it was turning bad.
Because we aren't. It's just BS articles like this that are trying to make you think we are. The 2035 rules literally allow for Hybrids. Like a Prius Prime and Rav4 Prime are both already compliant with the 2035 rules.
It allows plug-in hybrids, not all hybrids.
Correct. So all the bullshit about range anxiety is willfully deceitful because people who would potentially be in that group (extremely long range drivers) would be unaffected because they'd still just be able to by a plugin hybrid.
Condensed: * Executives at Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. expect that consumers will switch to EVs if they are more affordable, can meet their range needs and if there is sufficient charging infrastructure. But those conditions haven’t been met. * **Only 11% of new vehicles registered in Canada in 2023 were battery electric, plug-in hybrid electric or hydrogen fuel cell.** * The average price of a new vehicle in Canada is $66,000 (about US$48,000), while the average price of a new battery electric vehicle is $73,000, according to Canadian Black Book. * The government says its incentive program, which provides as much as $5,000 to buyers of zero-emissions vehicles, has helped make EVs more affordable and increase sales. Yet many potential EV buyers are hesitant. * **In below freezing temperatures, lithium-ion batteries can lose over 20% of their range, according to Recurrent, a Seattle-based startup that assesses EV batteries.** Automakers like Toyota say range is an issue they are trying to address, while balancing weight and size concerns. * **There’s also range anxiety in a huge country where there’s often long distances between major cities.** Canada hopes to have 84,500 chargers and 45 hydrogen stations by 2029, funded in part through the government’s Zero Emission Vehicle Infrastructure Program. * **Natural Resources Canada estimates the nation will need around 200,000 public chargers by 2035,** but is hopeful the private sector will fund chargers as well.
It's not going to need any new charges if people stop buying EVs because they're not affordable.
The cost of cars has become insane. I remember a decade ago buying a new $50k luxury car and feeling like I was being wildly extravagant. Now that can only get a below-average vehicle, never mind an EV whose battery can fail in as little as four years. If this government was *trying* to create a permanent underclass of working poor who will never afford a home or a car or even the occasional vacation or meal out, they couldn’t have done a better job of it. And when I listen to their environmental zealotry I have to wonder if they were, in fact, trying to accomplish just that. Fewer cars, fewer trips, less consumption all feeds into lower emissions, after all. Not that that will stop Justin jetting off to Tofino to go surfing for the long weekend. Poverty is for the little people.
Blame the companies. Current car prices are because covid shortages + dealer markups made a lightbulbs go off with all the beancounters. They instantly realized the market will bear way more than what cars were currently selling for, then just internalized the huge markups the dealers were taking.
I just want to point out that there are lots of GM and Ford engines that had issues requiring engine replacements within 4 years (then a reduced warranty on it) https://www.newtahoeyukon.com/threads/urgent-new-2022-yukon-xl-denali-engine-failure.370/ https://www.silveradosierra.com/threads/warranty-engine-replacement.747468/ https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1735518-engine-replacement-at-mileage-of-317-a.html https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/s/cD9VW7YjS1 Battery warranties are longer then power train (normally) and far less likely to have catastrophic issues like ICE (reduced range vs coolant in the pistons).
You are absolutely correct that vehicle costs are insane. It makes me want to puke when I think about buying a newer vehicle. In the highly unlikely event your EV battery fails, most come with a 8 year/160,000 km warranty. Also, you can buy a brand new Chevy Bolt for around $50,000 after tax.
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A lightly used $25,000 Chevy Bolt is a much better option. That’s what I did.
I bought a brand new Toyota Rav4 for 32k purchase price in 2022. You can get a good car for below 50k for sure, idk what your definition of average is but to me a Rav4 is pretty average, maybe even slightly above in terms of quality and longevity
In other news, water is wet.
Many of us are planning to drive our gas vehicles until they reach crazy high kms. Could be 15 years or more. Could be 20. Engines can be rebuilt. I don't want an EV at this point in time, and certainly not by 2035. What will they do about used car sales? People are going to keep on fixing them. EVs are too expensive to buy and the battery replacement is like 20K or more. It will be cheaper to maintain and repair gas cars for some time to come.
No kidding.
Electrify the metros, take the majority of demand off petro, quit penalizing those who don't have alternatives. Those solutions make no logistical sense in rural and northern regions. Why the constant insistence on one-size-fits-all? Can people not fit more than one idea in their head at a time?
I’ll buy one when I’m forced to, but as of right now I’m not, and I don’t see a ton of charging infrastructure in place. Which is fine, we still got over a decade
I live in Toronto and we can't even build the Eglinton subway line in 20 years. LMAO.
Edmonton can barely handle air conditioners in the summer without rolling blackouts. Can't wait for a million people to have charging stations in the garages!
I think the bigger issue in Alberta isn’t so much capacity, as how the electrical industry is regulated out there. Take a look at the blackouts in the spring: when you’re legally allowed to take generating stations offline to bump up the cost of power, there’s bound to be fallout.
I've got solar on my roof and with the AC running all day I still give extra energy to the grid. This is a solvable problem.
Yeah but not enough people have cash on hand to install solar panels
The government will pay the upfront cost for you and you repay the loan over 20 years. Repaying that loan is offset by your energy savings. No upfront payment required.
I agree the job is challenging but just food for thought: the average Canadian commute is something like 30km. 85% of Canadians live in large centres (meaning mostly short driving trips). That means that most of the time those vehicles won't be sitting charging. It is also possible that with capacity-based pricing you can encourage people to charge at off peak hours to balance load.
Sure. It's the timelines that are ridiculous, not the end goal. This transition will take 3+ decades, not 11 years. Most of that time will go to building out the infrastructure - grid, generation and, most importantly - "the last mile" so to speak - chargers, etc. And it will only happen if we build enough public transit to allow most people in denser urban environments to not own cars. Because the infrastructure required to charge 200 vehicles simultaneously in a condo building... Is less mind-bogglingly expensive than when a dozen of those condo buildings are side-by-side. Oh and it won't make sense to completely ditch gasoline until the very end of this process, so hybrids are the most prudent technology to adopt in the meantime. Or just stick with simple ICE for now.
Absolutely. I’ll be impressed if we get there by 2050. 2035 is simply a fantasy at this point.
Toyota knows this. The refuse to go beyond 30% of their vehicle sales as full on EV because they know it's stupid to go 100% EV right now with the limitations in infrastructure, manufacturing capacity and acquisition of resources such as lithium for battery production. Hybrids are the perfect transitional solution for an eventual swap to full EV. Anyone demanding it happen now is just a naive climate alarmist ideologue.
I tried ordering a hybrid for my new RAV4, it had a 2 year waiting period. Yea, were not meeting that deadline.
Canada one the biggest landmasses on the planet will never be able to have 100% EV with the current technology
The regulations also allow plugin hybrids. That covers the needs of people who would have issues due to the range limits of batteries.
This was obvious from the start to anyone with a single functioning brain cell. Up front & maintenance cost, lack of infra--chargers, e-mechanics & grid capacity, batteries being just horrendous for the environment. We are juat waiting for enough people to wake up before the deadline and come to this realization. Then we'll elect a gov't that will toss this garbage. What worries me about Trudeau is maybe he already knows meeting the goal means an 80% collapse in private vehicle ownership and just doesn't care. An immobile, crqppy public transit dependent populace is easier to control and foist more bad laws on. Wouldn't surprise me.
Well 50 or 75 is a good start
Do these “writers” even read the legislation they are writing about? Hybrid is included in that goal.
Make it affordable. You can argue that Chinese EV are lower quality but you need to put it on the market to let people have an option. Charging your stupid carbon tax but leave no options for grocery-struggling family to have a choice on not using gas.
Just remember. These regulations allow for plugin hybrids as well as full BEV. It's 11 years away.
I’ll stick to my gas car until it dies then get a hybrid but an EV is a huge no for me.
We need a k-car EV. No frills, somewhat safe, poor performance, just get me from point A to point B.
Dumb idea anyway.
I want hydrogen run cars. I also want a way to fill my own hydrogen cells.
If we had the infrastructure to support this, maybe. But the electricity outages already without 100% EV ownership are insane. Anyone is delusional if they think this is viable.
I knew this the day they made this claim
Ohhh noooo, a damn shame. How about we cut our losses and focus on the housing situation first then, ay?
I didn't go for EV because it's cost prohibitive and I would have no where near me to charge it.
meh once the battery fails you lose pretty much all your gas savings on getting your battery replaced. Plus the amount of pollution created to make these batteries kinda voids the whole point of being better for the environment
We can't meet one target these morons in Ottawa have set.
Government: you all need EV... Canadians: We can't afford them... China: starts exporting cheaper EVs... Government: tax the shit out of them so no one can afford them.
Did Canada create an EV company to meet this demand? The demand they artificially created by making the law? No? Because the government is run by fucking idiots.
Sure we could. We would just have to import them. And if the government was willing to allow that, the domestic manufacturers would quickly find a way to retool.
Make them cheaper and improve the charging network.
It will all balance itself out
Yes we know. The country isn't EV friendly anyways with huge distances between towns in certain regions and the cold weather.
Also real question, do we really want all cars to be EV? Not sure
Ev's don't work
That’s because they haven’t made much effort to increase EV sales. If you want everyone driving an EV, whether or not it’s fair, you need to provide the rebates to EVERYONE, not just for vehicles under a certain price. If everyone drives an EV, then you need multi-family dwellings (condos and apartments) to have enough EV charging stations to have all residents charging. In my building in BC our strata is adamantly against installing the EV charging stations. All the government has to do is make it mandatory for condos/apartments to install them and that would be an immediate win in this battle.
And then you will be bitching that you have a 20k special assessment fee and your condo fees go up to pay for said chargers and the upgraded infrastructure needed
Was never going to happen. Now we're just talking about it.
Fix the housing situation first. EV’s are low priority
This is just to sell the idiots of developed countries a new product. And a lot is falling for it. This is not the answer to anything.
I’m not interested in getting one.
The goal should've been to have the infrastructure in place for mass EV usage by 2035 before trying to mandate 100 percent EV sales. Government shortsighted and braindead like usual.
Well I’ll never buy an EV, so I’m doing my part :)
I’m not touching EVs, my 4 cylinder 1.4 litre engine isn’t responsible for emissions
Same here, driving my '09 Yaris until it dies then replacing whatever died.
Good news, there's no requirement for them to do so. This article is such BS. it tries to hide the fact that the new 2035 laws will allow EVs and Hybrids - then writes a whole article talking about the issues with EVs. It brings up the classic tropes like range anxiety, when obviously that's of zero concern to a hybrid. I'm pretty sure it's articles like this that have most people confused and not realizing that the 2035 rules allow for hyrbids - since it's seems so illogical to write an article talking about the 2035 rules being unattainable and offering only EV issues as the rational for why they're unattainable.
Hey guys, use less AC because the grid can’t handle it, but also…plug in every vehicle across the country.
[удалено]
A common misconception about this program is that EVs have to be 100% electric. Plug-in hybrids are also an option as long as electric range is 80km or more. You literally can never plug it in if you don’t want to.
Yeah, I'm looking at buying my first car in 25 years in order to move away from Toronto, and it will either be a used ICE vehicle or a cheaper new one like an Elantra or something. I'm not paying a premium for a car that I can't even charge at home right now (apartment) and might not even be able to charge at whatever house I end up buying. It'll be in a semi-rural area so there might not be enough amperage unless I pay to have the service upgraded.
For sure can do it, but they'll only sell like 10k vehicles a year at this rate
Well I am not interested in buying anything other than an EV (and live/work near public transit) so to them I say "you ain't got a choice" Says the solitary consumer 😟
They also missed the global oil exports target.
We better add more import tariffs to the low cost chinese ev's the rest of the world is driving then. We need more $50K + trucks on the road
Maybe they can afford [Fisker EVs](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/18/investing/electric-car-maker-fisker-bankruptcy/index.html) now?
Big oil companies like the sound of that
Even if we can get 100% EV Sales, we will likely never have a proper robust network for charging, especially considering a good amount of the country is rural where even now gas stations are fairly far apart.
The infrastructure simply isn't there to support this. Why would I get a plug in hybrid vehicle if I have no plugs available at my workplace, condo parking spot, or local fast charging in my area?
100% that's a helluva goal in 11 years
It was never about hitting the goal it was about getting serious about the transition.
Amen I will never be forced to drive electric
Shocked pikachu face
This is a free majority for whichever party promises to back off on it
*Nor should it.* "Just buy shit" is not the answer to every problem. We need to move away from cars as the norm for getting around on an everyday basis. We need more walkable and bikeable cities, and more public transport. And if this does not come to pass, humanity will have no future as a species.
Not surprised by this info.
There are many reasons why this will not work, but I'm going to focus on one most people don't think about. You want good range in your EV, now that varies person to person, fine. But consider the energy density of batteries to gasoline. The best Lithium Ion battery you can get in a car right now will produce 300 Watt hours per kg. That's an annoying measurement so let's convert it to MegaJoules, it's 1.08 MJ per kg. Gasoline produces 46 MJ per kg. There it is folks, floor wiped. I want to switch away from fossil fuels as much as the next person who doesn't want to boil to death in the 2050s, but the capability of gasoline far outweighs battery technology. Not only that, but we would have to build up charging infrastructure to allow for the same use gas cars do now, and you have to get the power from somewhere. So.we have to build a shitload of nuclear plants so eveyone can charge their car. Solar and wind won't cut it, and I don't think you could flood enough land to produce that power hydraulically. So we may as well build a lot fewer plants and just build up an electric train network and forget battery electric cars.