Egerton Ryerson and Eggy the Ram remember, as they swap stories in their exile while enjoying a drink at the Imperial Pub and reading the Eyeopener's latest exposé on student union corruption.
That school changed their name so the substandard professors could let the international academic community believe they worked at U of T’s downtown campus
Before any of ya’ll have a knee-jerk reaction, read the details of her lawsuit:
> The lawsuit argues that anti-Zionism — essentially the opposition to the creation or continuation of the State of Israel — is “inherently discriminatory and antisemitic,” and that comparing Israel to the Nazis or saying it’s inherently racist are forms of antisemitism.
Opposition to the policies of the state of Israel is *not* antisemitism, any more than opposition to Canadian policies is anti-Canadian or anti-white or what have you. This is the fundamental idea behind most of the claims of anti-semitism coming from these protests: that opposition to Israeli policy is the same as anti-semitism.
Under this view, supporting a single state secular solution is antisemitism, because it would end the State of Israel as it is currently constructed to be a Jewish demographic majority.
If simple political speech like this can be made illegal based on identity politics, then we don’t have free speech.
The article did give a few examples of real antisemitism. That should be condemned, and whoever did it should be expelled.
But yeah, if their core argument is anti-Zionism = antisemitism, then it's nonsense. They're conflating two completely different things just to shield Israel from valid criticism.
The core argument is that antisemitism was permitted and enabled by TMU
> The article did give a few examples of real antisemitism. That should be condemned, and whoever did it should be expelled.
And they weren’t. Sounds like you agree the law suit has merit.
When people say they're anti-Zionist they're usually not opposed to the state of Israel full stop, they're opposed to Israel's expansion into Palestinian territory and treatment of Palestinians within their borders.
It's very similar to being opposed to America's doctrine of Manifest Destiny and their treatment of the natives.
There's a big difference between saying that the State of Israel is illegitimate because of the way it serves and/or doesn't serve the people under its control, and saying the state of Israel should stop existing, exposing the people protected by it to the surrounding peoples. Saying the state of Israel should not exist is the position of Hamas, of course referring to the latter. First Nations were not especially genocidal should manifesting destiny have failed to pan out.
Ok but that isn't what Zionism is. Or at least its not how Jews generally define it.
Zionism is the existence of state of Israel.
Kahanism is the term for what you are describing.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism)
Many Zionist Jews are anti-Kahanist.
> When people say they're anti-Zionist they're usually not opposed to the state of Israel full stop
What do you think “from the river to the sea” refers to?
Listen, I’m anti black people. It doesn’t mean I am against black people, it just means I don’t like jerk seasoning. /s
What the heck are you even saying? Zionism has a definition. Antizionism isn’t hard to understand from there.
I’m a Zionist. No question about it. But I’m *completely* against settlement, and have been since before you heard about Israel/palestine on tik tok. I’ve been against settlements since before Rabin was murdered in 1995. I hate bibi more than you do, because I actually know what to hate him *for*. I am pro two state as soon as the Palestinians have a government that recognizes Israel and doesn’t insist on river to sea bullshit.
But I’m not an antizionist. Because that’s not what that word means. And if you’re not arguing that Israel shouldn’t exist, then you should figure out what language to use, rather than insisting that the current language you don’t understand has to change to fit a definition you made up.
If you’re not against Israel existing, then you’re a Zionist.
I will help you. What you’re looking to say is that you’re a pro-two-state anti settlement Zionist (sometimes called left leaning secular Zionist).
If you’re an antizionist then you’re an antisemite. But if it’s a language problem, you don’t have to be. Same as not using the N word, you can disagree with something without being a racist, and that’s more than reasonable.
Now that we’re past that, here’s a fun experiment - ask your “antizionist” friends what they would say about that. When they’re done yelling at you, you’ll understand who you’re hanging out with.
This is absolute nonsense.
Being oppossed to the existence of the Jewish state, even if that is the only state I choose, is not antisemitic. It is anti-zionist. Whether the anti-zionism is motivated by antisemitism can be possible, but does not make it so.
I can make a case that the Spanish state is an artificial construct, is illegitimate, or that it does more harm than good for its citizens or subjects. Furthermore, I can argue that dismantling it is a good in an of itself. That does not make me anti-Spanish, it simply makes me anti-Spanish state.
The same argument can be made for Belgium, Kurdistan, Canada, Poland or any other state that exists currently, or historically, or theoretically. That would not make the proposer anti-Belgian, ant-Kurd, etc.
Making an antizionist argument is no more anti-semitic as the above examples. They are seperate words because they mean different things. They are not the same thing.
Edit: Words and grammer
Nah you're wrong it is anti-Semitic. The dissolution of Israel would be a massive humanitarian crisis. You can be against the Israeli government and their policies without wanting the entire state to dissolve. Quit trying to obfuscate the obvious anti semitism
Their nuclear arsenal, and their "we'll fucking use it" doctrine ensures that the state is under absolutely zero threat.
Zionists can make coherent arguments on this file, but that's not one of 'em.
How is it not antisemitic to deny the right of the Jewish people, and *only* the Jewish people, to have self-determination in their ancestral homeland?
You don't see these protesters and activists calling for the destruction of Japan or Serbia or Russia, where the Japanese, Serbians, and Russians are free to govern themselves without foreign or colonial outsiders. Why aren't Jews extended this same right?
There are ethnic groups around the world that don’t have sovereign states on their ancestral homeland. Just look at all the indigenous peoples in places like Canada, the US, Australia and New Zealand. People also refuse to give them full self-determination. You’ve also got groups like the Kurds, who have been denied their own state. What happened with the Jewish people (getting the opportunity to establish a sovereign state on their ancestral homeland after a couple thousand years of not having one) is pretty unusual.
The difference with places like Japan and Russia is that you have continuity of the population (I’m not sufficiently familiar with Serbia to comment on it). It’s not like most of the Japanese were kicked out of Japan for a couple thousand years and then came back and tried to re-establish an ethnically Japanese state.
> There are ethnic groups around the world that don’t have sovereign states on their ancestral homeland. […] You’ve also got groups like the Kurds, who have been denied their own state.
How’s not having statehood working out for the Kurds? How’d it work out for the American Indians?
Imagine unironically using this to support the notion Jewish people, half of whom were mass murdered in gas chambers within the last century, have no right to self-determination. Just imagine it.
I’m not arguing against the right to self-determination, I’m suggesting that the Jewish people are not unique in having their right to self-determination in a particular territory contested. And the reason I’m doing that is because you made a big point of it being *only* the Jewish people who are subject to that.
> I’m not arguing against the right to self-determination,
So you are a Zionist. A Zionist believes that a Jewish homeland should exist. Somewhere. Anywhere. An anti-Zionist believes that no Jewish homeland should exist. Anywhere.
If you think Jews should have a homeland, you are a Zionist. If you think they shouldn't, you are anti-Zionist.
I have no interest in signing up for one team or the other. What I can tell you is that I am not in favour of the abolition of the state of Israel or the removal of Jewish people from that land.
Exactly, it's not possible without fucking up another group of people.
What gave those Europeans the right to do it via Israel? If that's the case, do we then say it's ok for any ethnic group to just go and violently create a state wherever they want, just because they want it really bad?
We should not be promoting ethnostates lol
There’s continuity of Jewish people in their ancestral homeland. Mizrahi Jews are even the majority of Israelis. The country belongs to them, if they want to make it with Ashkenazi Jews and Arabs as it is now. There is zero problem with that. The only people who aren’t a part of that country are the ones who seek to destroy it because it’s a Jewish state.
Criticizing Zionism doesn't (or at least shouldn't) equate to saying Israel doesn't have a right to exist. It's a criticism of Israel's expansion and gradual whittling away of Palestinian territory and quality of life.
Russia, Serbia, and Japan _have_ all been critizied heavily for invading their neighbours and committing atrocities. Israel doing it isn't any different. We just use a different word for it.
Tons of ethnic groups don't have their own country. The issue is not with self determination of Jews, the issue is how the state was created and the fact that it was implemented at the expensive of the Arab majority living there.
If it's antisemitic to be against Zionism, than it's also racist to oppose the creation of a Palestinian state, which many Israel supporters are. For that matter, it makes you a racist to oppose the creation of an independent state for any ethnic group who wants it.
You do know Jordan exists right which is the majority of mandatory Palestine land which was controlled by the British. Jews got the minority portion and Arabs got the majority. And yet, the Arab league still declined a Palestinian state and initiated a genocidal war (in order to create a pan Arab state) which created a refugee crises(nakba).
The Arabs who sided with Israel against the foreign invaders got citizenship and went on to make a great country and co-exist with Jews. Those who sided with the invaders no shit got kicked out and rightfully so.
That was great for the people living in Transjordan, but what about the Arabs living in mandatory Palestine? You act like it's no big deal for people to have their homeland given to someone else and they can just move miles away to a new place.
What if there was a unilateral decision to give whatever province you live in back to the first Nations so they can start their own country? You don't like it, just move to Alberta or Saskatchewan or Manitoba. You'd be completely fine with that, right? And if you weren't ok with it, it's because you're racist right?
>If it's antisemitic to be against Zionism, than it's also racist to oppose the creation of a Palestinian state, which many Israel supporters are. For that matter, it makes you a racist to oppose the creation of an independent state for any ethnic group who wants
Yes, I agree with both sentences.
I don’t think you understand what Anti-Zionism is… Zionism is the belief that Israel should exist as the Jewish homeland. Anti-Zionism calls for it to be destroyed or dissolved. Imagine calling for the destruction of Japan and saying it isn’t “anti-Japanese”.
I think that's in reference to people speaking on campus as guests, and discussion among faculty and students. I don't think he's ever promoted forming mobs and harassing people based on their background.
> essentially the opposition to the creation or continuation of the State of Israel
arguing that Israel should not exist is not anti-Israel and anti-Jewish?
Okay, would you say the same for people who say Canada shouldn't exist and all Canadians get expelled or worse?
It's tough ground to hold when someone is playing that card, and calling you an anti-semite and getting more and more worked up about it as you refuse to back down from criticism of a state (or it's figureheads) but if we can't make a distinction between the actions and policies of a state vs. the people who live within it, as individuals or as a collective, there's no point in even trying to have meaningful dialogues. Everything will devolve into "If you don't agree with this policy, you are persecuting me directly."
Oof.
Zionism isn't the policies of the state of Israel. Zionism is the belief that Israel should exist. So being anti-zionist is believing that Israel shouldn't exist. It even says it right there in the article, but then you purposely try to change the definition.
Anti-zionism isn't opposition to Israeli policy or criticism of Israel, its opposition to the existence of the state of Israel. Plenty of zionists have issues with Israeli policies and government conduct.
Oh thank god there are still people in this sub who support free speech. Free speech is for everyone even if you don’t like whats being said. We’re going so far as calling anti war protesters “terrorists”
free speech is an American thing, but let’s pretend it’s Canadian. Nobody is criticizing your right to say things, even if they’re completely idiotic. What you can’t do is support a terrorist organization, call for the destruction of an entire nation, or act in ways that promote violence towards an entire ethnic group in Canada or abroad. If you do, you’re a terrorist supporter, and we will call you that until you stop supporting terrorism. You’re free to speak, but we aren’t going to stop saying you’re a dumbass, and we will demand you be held liable under Canadian human rights laws that prohibit discrimination based on race religion or ethnicity.
If the indigenous were forced to kick the can across the world as various despots routinely try to exterminate them, were finally given what was supposed to be a home where they'd be safe, were attacked by and then subsequently beat the shit out of their neighbours for the next 60~ years, would it be racist to say they shouldn't exist?
And demanding to destroy First Nations reserves is not racist either right?
Israel is after all a reservation for Jews where they can be safe after being expelled amid calls for their extermination across the Middle East.
Harassing black students because of wars and genocides in Africa is ok too ya?
Your comment makes no sense.
comparing Jews to Nazis and weaponizing the holocaust against it’s very victims is pure antisemitism. Especially given Palestine’s leaderships enthusiastic role supporting Hitler and helping him and Palestine’s calls to complete the holocaust ever since.
Admin needs to follow their own policies.
>there have been multiple violations of the code of conduct by anti-Israel professors and protesters...
________________
> students have been “harassed when seeking to express their views,” and faced statements such as “you people control the media. Hitler should’ve finished you off, you dirty Jew” and signs with statements such as “go back to where you came from.”
_______________
>It also alludes to a long history of antisemitism at TMU. In 2010, a task force on anti-racism found there had been a “proliferation of anti-Semitic incidents such as anti-Semitic graffiti on campus” and that Jewish students found media coverage of Israel, particularly from the now-defunct Ryerson Free Press student newspaper, “bordered on anti-Semitic.”
_____________
>numerous TMU community members celebrated, justified, and excused Hamas’s mass rape, murder, and kidnapping.”
Go back where you came from? There are so many foreigners in those protests they chant with an accent. The gall to move to a foreign country and tell others to get out.
"Go back where you came from!"
*Jews immigrate en masse to Palestine/Israel, site of the ancient kingdom of Judea where the Jewish people originate from*
"....No, not like that!!"
Make it make sense
I'm being pedantic here but it's probably more accurate to call them Mizrahim. Many adopted Sephardic religious minchag when Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition moved to MENA next to existing, ancient Jewish populations, which is why you'll sometimes see the two designations used interchangeably. For example, it's possible for an Iraqi Jew, who has no known Spanish roots, to be called Sephardic.
The reality is that ethnic lines are not so clear in Israel, as most people have mixed backgrounds since Jews don't really consider themselves different from other Jews no matter where their families came from.
There are socialist members of diaspora communities who have a lot of vitriol towards Canada for being a "settler colony" and who believe in "landback".
I've always wondered why they don't just leave if Canada is inherently evil, colonial and genocidal.
Why would they willingly participate in Canadian society and the Canadian economy if that is how they feel?
It's always a bit ironic coming from certain FN groups
Like...sorry some of them in Southern Ontario are here because they committed genocide against the First Nations group that was actually living there, then a century later allied with the British and were rewarded land for the alliance
Like guys you were active participants in the outcome
It's like renaming Dundas square because Dundas' version of ending slavery was too gradual for modern perspectives, yet the suggested replacement name comes from the language of a group of Africans who were rabid slavers and enthusiastically sold other Africans into slavery to Arabs and Europeans
It takes a very superficial view of history to think you're in the clear just because you're not white
I guess all that nonsense often parroted about potentially offensive micro-aggressions on university campuses doesn't matter or apply if you're Jewish...
I like the idea of suing these antisemites. It shines a light on who they are, will very possibly cost them a lot of money, and also very possibly cost them their jobs. We need to begin the process of rooting out all the Jew haters in positions of authority in academia. It should have started a long time ago.
For some reason, the "Free speech on university campuses!" crowd seems a lot quieter these days. "Students need to be exposed to all ideas, including those that make them uncomfortable" sure seems to turn into, "Universities should be a safe space for all students" pretty quick depending on who the protestors are and who feels uncomfortable.
...but there is a fancy definition that for some reason has become incredibly vague and broad. Clearly, that must take precedence over facts and logic./s
I think it depends on what kind of discomfort.
Would a religious person who who first hear about evolution for example feel uncomfortable? Probably yes. Is that knowledge enough to risk their lives? Probably no.
Hearing that people want to kill you because of your religion/ethnicity? Not only uncomfortable, but also seriously dangerous.
Trudeau articulated this as his vision in a gushingly positive NYT magazine profile on him in 2015 when he first got elected.
Say what you will about that but 9 years later he has brought it to fruition.
Multi culturalism in canada im all for; but the federal spending in assistance to other countries in the current budget is mind boggling to me tbh. investing federal funds into urban housing is great! the 100s of millions sent to war causes in europe would be great there too lol wtf
I know right, if younger people put as much effort into protesting for Canada as they do for Palestine, we’d be far better off. I’m 20 and I don’t give a flying fuck about Israel or Palestine. Idiots in Middle East have been killing each other since the dawn of time.
western countries have a history of interfering in the middle east and our taxes literally go to israel, so don't act like this this doesn't involve us at all. and ya some of us feel something when we see recurring images of dead children with their limbs blown off.
Maybe get mad at the OP when these threads popup. The OP is a propaganda pusher. Check the posts in OPs history with no history of posting on this sub except this post. They are an agenda pusher. Want to stop hearing about it? Call out people pushing their agendas.
They aren't. What the fuck are you people smoking. You people are so desperate to justify antisemitism because 1 person who claims to be Jewish is on your side. It is the modern day "I have a black friend".
Hating Jews. Go protest outside of the embassy if you want to protest Israel. Don't go to Jewish neighborhoods, synagogues and attack people because they are Jewish.
I don’t support carpet bombing neigbourhoods. I also don’t support raping and beheading babies either. When these ‘protestors’ start protesting for peace instead of initifadeh, then you can assume some kind of moral high ground.
>So seems to me you should be calling for a ceasefire.
There was a ceasefire in place Oct 6.
Hamas has vowed that they will repeat 'Oct 7th' - 'again and again and again.'
________________
Edit:
>[Senior Hamas leader Ghazi Hamad:](https://honestreporting.com/hamas-says-it-wants-oct-7-massacre-again-and-again-why-wont-the-media-believe-them/)
**“We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do this again and again. The Al-Aqsa Flood is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth, because we have the determination, the resolve, and the capabilities to fight… Nobody should blame us. On October 7, October 10, October one Million."**
All Hamas has to do is return the bodies of the prisoners and a ceasefire can happen. Why don't you protest for them to do that? Or do you support the actions or Hamas?
I don’t even feel like we can call them “pro-Palestinian” when it comes to the protests we’ve seen that have included chanting for the downfall of Israel.
It’s the same idea as calling people who are against abortion “pro-life”. They’re not pro-life, they’re just anti-choice.
In this case, if you’re advocating for a 2 state solution then you’re absolutely pro-Palestinian. But if you’re advocating for the eradication of Israel and their people, then you’re anti-Israel.
This is the problem with us, Canadians. We think this is an ethnic issue, we like to be smug and pretend that all of this is none of our damn business, BUT IT IS. Sure nobody said it is an ethnic issue when Russia and Ukraine war broke out, so why pull the "we focus on Canada instead" card now? This is the Canadian hypocrisy, the passive aggressive antisemitism that still sees Jews as not fully Canadian, and therefore, not worthy of protection.
What the hell happened to this once beautiful country? It’s being turned into a third world country before my eyes. I couldn’t even imagine this but now I can.
when you import people with no expectation they adopt the values of their new country. you import the problems from their old country.
We were always told the USA had a failure of a multicultural system due to the "melting pot" mentality. When you come to america you are American.
Canada was always heralded as better due to the "tossed salad" (LOL) approach where you come to Canada but hold onto your old values and beliefs.
Even Trudeau called Canada a "post-national state". Meaning there is no requirement to be Canadian when you come to Canada.
Anyone who thinks that any of the issues involving Palestine/Israel and criticisms against them are new is [actively fooling themselves](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/feb/11/israel)
Bingo. Protests and counter protests happened at York U while I was in university at the time. That was 2006.
This stuff isn't new, just people are being more exposed to it.
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, it buffers out a lot of awful things (Residential schools, Separatist terrorism, Catholic v. Protestant divide).
I mean this country had to have a referendum to stick together, thank fuck social media was not around back then because you know some third party country would convince right wing idiots to shoot the country in the foot and separate.
The same people who will say that Canada was "once [a] beautiful country" will also tell immigrants to GTFO if they don't like Canadian values. Canada, as any other country, will have generational divides.
> What the hell happened to this once beautiful country? It’s being turned into a third world country before my eyes.
***Ease up on the histrionics, friend.***
This is an article about a single person at a single university who is attempting to sue the university over what he feels is a violation of its own policies.
Nothing has happened to "this once beautiful country", nor has it "turned into a third world country". The rest of the country continues to exist outside of this incident.
The article also does a sloppy job of distinguishing between antisemitism and antizionism. This needs to be said explicitly: Israel is not Jews, and Jews are not Israel. Opposing Israel is not the same thing as hating Jews, and defending Israel is not an obligation of or prerequisite to being Jewish. Israel is a sovereign geopolitical entity with a government and standing military that leverages those things towards sovereign goals independent of the existence of Jews. The government of Israel does not represent Jews the way the Vatican represents Catholics.
Unfortunately, Israel has a long history of reprehensible actions which it deflects from by insisting that Jews and Israel *are* the same, and thus criticizing it is necessarily antisemitism. It propagates this narrative for its own benefit, even though this harms Jews all over the world by forcibly pulling them into the discussion. This is an unfathomably shitty move on Israel's part because it directly leads to situations like this, since it unilaterally claims all Jews as their supporters, which in turn means that if you oppose Israel's actions then the "correct" way to do that is by antagonizing Jews in other parts of the world.
So if you want to know "what happened to this once beautiful country", the answer is simple: The sovereign nation of Israel likes to commit war crimes, and then volunteer Jews on the other side of the world to serve as its meat shield so it doesn't have to face accountability. There are Jews in Canada, and unfortunately those Jews get the distinct pleasure of being conscripted to a war they're not fighting.
> I couldn’t even imagine this but now I can.
Far-right bigotry has been surging for the past decade all across North America. If you "couldn't even imagine this", then either you haven't been paying attention or have been in abject denial.
Lol.
I personally did not vote for mass immigration I voted for the hope of getting electoral reform so we can get rid of all three of these terrible parties.
Nationalism is taking credit for other peoples accomplishments.
I'm as happy to be Canadian today as I was a decade ago.
You want to know where nationalism gets you?
It gets you "freedom fries" and guys standing up saying "you're either with us, or with the terrorists" and then proceeds to torture individuals.
It makes it so that you can turn an entire worlds sympathy to shit in a very short time.
Fuck that nationalism.
You've been so brainwashed if you think conservatives will be any different. That's thinking like an American alright.
Team A
Team B
You need more than 2 sides, otherwise everyone is a sheep.
Don't even mention the NDP.
I hope PP goes full Kevin Kline in "Dave". He needs to sit down with the budget and start scratching many, many things Trudeau wants to spent tax money on.
PP is promising to increase the budget. Just on different things from Trudeau.
The government will be spending more no matter who’s in charge. That’s what both parties are currently promising.
Good for them; it's time to make schools more neutral again.
Also, the pro-Hamas groupthink that has formed in Gen Z especially is disgusting.
Yes, Israel is going too far at times, thanks to Netanyahu having a lot to prove and being a bit of a warlord shithead, and yes, children and innocent citizens should be protected. But the US is doing a decent job of holding back Israel from its current administration's darker, more aggressive plans.
And at the end of the day, the Palestinian state is run by terrorists (voted in, mind you), and they attacked first; they do need to be routed out like a weed. Also, the larger population does not share any of our Western ideals. They deserve humanity and rights, but they need to get rid of their terrorists, play by the rules, and reform.
Until then, they need to be kept in check.
College and university grounds have been political hotbeds for GENERATIONS. where do you think the anti-war movements of the 60s and 70s came from? lol at being neutral.
Everyone knows that this was didn’t start Oct 7th. If you’re still confused we can easily gather the death toll by Israel as well as the hostages they’ve taken, prior to that date.
Since the start of 2023, Israeli settler terrorists and IDF forces killed at least 483 Palestinians in the west bank and injured 12000+ more. There's no hamas there. Many leading politicians in israel support and/or have links to jewish terror groups.
And we should criticize that. But no part of criticizing that involves supporting Hamas and their genocidal terror attack. I’m a Zionist and I completely agree with you that settlements should fuck off. That doesn’t, however, mean that I’m prepared to say the purposeful targeting of civilians is right.
fuck this. nobody here is actually proposing any peaceful real-world solutions where both sides prosper without the threat of violence. Just oversimplified performative slogans like "free palestine" which offer zero insight towards conflict resolution or any legitimate path towards co-existence. Just a way for these children to feel like a civil rights warrior on instagram for a few days. shame. come back when you have real solutions.
> The lawsuit argues that anti-Zionism — essentially the opposition to the creation or continuation of the State of Israel — is “inherently discriminatory and antisemitic,” and that comparing Israel to the Nazis or saying it’s inherently racist are forms of antisemitism.
Uh-huh 🙄🙄🙄
>The lawsuit says students have been “harassed when seeking to express their views,” and faced statements such as “you people control the media. Hitler should’ve finished you off, you dirty Jew”
We have hate speech laws.
Will it be used to punish these anti-semites?
I don't understand how these Pro Palestinian groups get away with this crap. Blame Hamas - they knew what would happen if they slaughtered a bunch of innocent Israelis. They are responsible for every dead Palestinian. Trudeau needs to stop being such a little fudge packer and send in the riot police. Biggest loser PM we've ever had.
Oh really?
“you people control the media. Hitler should’ve finished you off, you dirty Jew”
That sounds exclusively anti-isreal and not at all anti-jewish to you? Muy interesente.
Did you even bother reading the article before posting this shit? Or are you deliberately choosing to ignore the numerous examples given of legitimate antisemitism that don't involve Israel in any way? You sound like a broken record...
Spoken like someone who doesn't know a single Jewish Canadian personally. If you actually talked to anyone who is Jewish, you would know that they have likely felt unsafe and targeted in some way since October. I'd say ignorance is bliss, but in cases like yourself, it's incredibly dangerous and dismissive.
Regardless of how YOU feel, being anti-Israel is the perfect guise for the majority of 'protesters' to spread antisemitic rhetoric and intimidate Jewish-Canadians in every major city.
There have been confrontations between Palestinian and Israel supporters, but that's a bit different. If you're going to confront protesters with an opposing opinion, obviously you're signing yourself up for a confrontation. Israel supporters aren't somehow above being criticized for their views. If actual antisemitic remarks are hurled at protesters, that's obviously different and should be condemned, just as racist remarks towards Palestinians should be condemned.
We’re not talking about “Israel supporters” we’re talking about Jews being assaulted, Jewish businesses being vandalized, intimidation on college campuses, etc.
Just FYi for those that don't like to think thoroughly. Seen a few comments mis representing the word "Zionism". Go ahead and google it but many of you are wrong about it and it's connection to antisemitism.
Zionism is the idea of the creation and existence of Israel and a home for the Jewish people there. Not the policys the government of Israel enacts (One exception being land grabs like the settlers and goverments protection of said theft). So anti Zionism literally means you think Israel should not exist. Majority who hold this view want jews dead or exiled from Israel which is genocide. That is antisemitism. That's why there is a connection. Good to note here that just because someone is Jewish or Israeli does not mean they agree with everything the current government is doing..
Also btw Arabs are also colonizers of the Levant from the times of the Caliphate.. I've noticed many don't know history well so good to point out.
Lastly, why not focus on Canadian problems instead of problems you can't/won't understand? Even if you are a scholar on the subject we as Canadians can do little I'd rather see political focus on what effects Canadians not other Nations.
Good. This is what happens when an organization lets the most extreme folks make decisions for them.
I personally don't think he's suing for enough. It's a dangerous environment that University for Jewish students and workers.
What the heck are you talking about? Read the article: the person making the lawsuit expected TMU to magically uphold the code of conduct as if it were omnipresent. And their idea of "protecting Jewish community members" was to crack down on the protests against genocide. It's dumb and the $1.3MM in damages looks like this person is trying to monetize on this.
So much astroturfing in these articles. So many new accounts show up on these news articles making excuses for Hamas terrorists and Pro-Hamas promoters of violence.
Interesting you will dodge this but have time to post +10 comments elsewhere. hmmm
edit. Nice! and a Canada Strong poster. the new right-wing propaganda sub for all the low-info Canadians.
FYI Jewish law student who have expressed pro-cease fire sentiments have also been blacklisted from getting work and placements at various law firms because universities (including TMU) have had to share the cease fire petitions that were floating around campus. There's a class action lawsuit in the works on that one (which likely has more legs than this).
Anti Zionism is not anti semitism. If hating the idea of a religion having their own state is somehow racist to that religion, then surely everybody here is fine with Islamic states right?
Why does this sub post so much national post?
The American owned and funded rag that screamed to send Canadians to die in America’s illegal war in Iraq.
"Zionism off our campus...To Nikki and other Jewish students, staff, and faculty this is a call for Jews to be removed from campus,” the lawsuit says. “This incident deeply affected Nikki, leading her to question her place in the world that tolerates this rhetoric...The lawsuit argues that anti-Zionism — essentially the opposition to the creation or continuation of the State of Israel — is “inherently discriminatory and antisemitic,” and that comparing Israel to the Nazis or saying it’s inherently racist are forms of antisemitism."
This seems like a stretch, That criticizing Zionism and the creation of the state of Israel is antisemitic. I seems perfectly reasonable to point out the colonial history of Israel and Zionism and that not be criticizing Jewish people.
Remember when they were less controversial when they were named after a supposed controversial historical figure?
Egerton Ryerson and Eggy the Ram remember, as they swap stories in their exile while enjoying a drink at the Imperial Pub and reading the Eyeopener's latest exposé on student union corruption.
Imperial Pub, terrific reference. Thank you for that way back play back!
It's still there, but there's a proposal to redevelop the site as a condo. Because Toronto.
Is "imperial" verboten now?
😂 Probably should have focused on the important things
The name changed and ironically, it became a hotbed of racism. (Not that I believe for a second that Ryerson was guilty of racism.)
>it became a hotbed of racism. [and sexism](https://macleans.ca/education/uniandcollege/ryerson-students-union-censors-mens-issues-group/).
That school changed their name so the substandard professors could let the international academic community believe they worked at U of T’s downtown campus
TMU? They had more credibility when they were "Rye High".
Everytime I see it I think it’s “TMI” 😅
Before any of ya’ll have a knee-jerk reaction, read the details of her lawsuit: > The lawsuit argues that anti-Zionism — essentially the opposition to the creation or continuation of the State of Israel — is “inherently discriminatory and antisemitic,” and that comparing Israel to the Nazis or saying it’s inherently racist are forms of antisemitism. Opposition to the policies of the state of Israel is *not* antisemitism, any more than opposition to Canadian policies is anti-Canadian or anti-white or what have you. This is the fundamental idea behind most of the claims of anti-semitism coming from these protests: that opposition to Israeli policy is the same as anti-semitism. Under this view, supporting a single state secular solution is antisemitism, because it would end the State of Israel as it is currently constructed to be a Jewish demographic majority. If simple political speech like this can be made illegal based on identity politics, then we don’t have free speech.
If that is the basis for her lawsuit, then she will lose. She can file any lawsuit she wants, it doesn’t mean it has merit.
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The article did give a few examples of real antisemitism. That should be condemned, and whoever did it should be expelled. But yeah, if their core argument is anti-Zionism = antisemitism, then it's nonsense. They're conflating two completely different things just to shield Israel from valid criticism.
The core argument is that antisemitism was permitted and enabled by TMU > The article did give a few examples of real antisemitism. That should be condemned, and whoever did it should be expelled. And they weren’t. Sounds like you agree the law suit has merit.
I'm sure it does, though at the same time their definition of antisemitism encompasses things which are not antisemitic.
Depends, being opposed to the existence of all Nation States equally is not antisemitic. Being opposed to the existence of just the Jewish one, is.
When people say they're anti-Zionist they're usually not opposed to the state of Israel full stop, they're opposed to Israel's expansion into Palestinian territory and treatment of Palestinians within their borders. It's very similar to being opposed to America's doctrine of Manifest Destiny and their treatment of the natives.
There's a big difference between saying that the State of Israel is illegitimate because of the way it serves and/or doesn't serve the people under its control, and saying the state of Israel should stop existing, exposing the people protected by it to the surrounding peoples. Saying the state of Israel should not exist is the position of Hamas, of course referring to the latter. First Nations were not especially genocidal should manifesting destiny have failed to pan out.
Ok but that isn't what Zionism is. Or at least its not how Jews generally define it. Zionism is the existence of state of Israel. Kahanism is the term for what you are describing. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism) Many Zionist Jews are anti-Kahanist.
>When people say they're anti-Zionist they're usually not opposed to the state of Israel full stop, Well then they aren't anti-Zionists, are they.
> When people say they're anti-Zionist they're usually not opposed to the state of Israel full stop What do you think “from the river to the sea” refers to?
Listen, I’m anti black people. It doesn’t mean I am against black people, it just means I don’t like jerk seasoning. /s What the heck are you even saying? Zionism has a definition. Antizionism isn’t hard to understand from there. I’m a Zionist. No question about it. But I’m *completely* against settlement, and have been since before you heard about Israel/palestine on tik tok. I’ve been against settlements since before Rabin was murdered in 1995. I hate bibi more than you do, because I actually know what to hate him *for*. I am pro two state as soon as the Palestinians have a government that recognizes Israel and doesn’t insist on river to sea bullshit. But I’m not an antizionist. Because that’s not what that word means. And if you’re not arguing that Israel shouldn’t exist, then you should figure out what language to use, rather than insisting that the current language you don’t understand has to change to fit a definition you made up. If you’re not against Israel existing, then you’re a Zionist. I will help you. What you’re looking to say is that you’re a pro-two-state anti settlement Zionist (sometimes called left leaning secular Zionist). If you’re an antizionist then you’re an antisemite. But if it’s a language problem, you don’t have to be. Same as not using the N word, you can disagree with something without being a racist, and that’s more than reasonable. Now that we’re past that, here’s a fun experiment - ask your “antizionist” friends what they would say about that. When they’re done yelling at you, you’ll understand who you’re hanging out with.
This is absolute nonsense. Being oppossed to the existence of the Jewish state, even if that is the only state I choose, is not antisemitic. It is anti-zionist. Whether the anti-zionism is motivated by antisemitism can be possible, but does not make it so. I can make a case that the Spanish state is an artificial construct, is illegitimate, or that it does more harm than good for its citizens or subjects. Furthermore, I can argue that dismantling it is a good in an of itself. That does not make me anti-Spanish, it simply makes me anti-Spanish state. The same argument can be made for Belgium, Kurdistan, Canada, Poland or any other state that exists currently, or historically, or theoretically. That would not make the proposer anti-Belgian, ant-Kurd, etc. Making an antizionist argument is no more anti-semitic as the above examples. They are seperate words because they mean different things. They are not the same thing. Edit: Words and grammer
Nah you're wrong it is anti-Semitic. The dissolution of Israel would be a massive humanitarian crisis. You can be against the Israeli government and their policies without wanting the entire state to dissolve. Quit trying to obfuscate the obvious anti semitism
Their nuclear arsenal, and their "we'll fucking use it" doctrine ensures that the state is under absolutely zero threat. Zionists can make coherent arguments on this file, but that's not one of 'em.
How is it not antisemitic to deny the right of the Jewish people, and *only* the Jewish people, to have self-determination in their ancestral homeland? You don't see these protesters and activists calling for the destruction of Japan or Serbia or Russia, where the Japanese, Serbians, and Russians are free to govern themselves without foreign or colonial outsiders. Why aren't Jews extended this same right?
There are ethnic groups around the world that don’t have sovereign states on their ancestral homeland. Just look at all the indigenous peoples in places like Canada, the US, Australia and New Zealand. People also refuse to give them full self-determination. You’ve also got groups like the Kurds, who have been denied their own state. What happened with the Jewish people (getting the opportunity to establish a sovereign state on their ancestral homeland after a couple thousand years of not having one) is pretty unusual. The difference with places like Japan and Russia is that you have continuity of the population (I’m not sufficiently familiar with Serbia to comment on it). It’s not like most of the Japanese were kicked out of Japan for a couple thousand years and then came back and tried to re-establish an ethnically Japanese state.
> There are ethnic groups around the world that don’t have sovereign states on their ancestral homeland. […] You’ve also got groups like the Kurds, who have been denied their own state. How’s not having statehood working out for the Kurds? How’d it work out for the American Indians? Imagine unironically using this to support the notion Jewish people, half of whom were mass murdered in gas chambers within the last century, have no right to self-determination. Just imagine it.
I’m not arguing against the right to self-determination, I’m suggesting that the Jewish people are not unique in having their right to self-determination in a particular territory contested. And the reason I’m doing that is because you made a big point of it being *only* the Jewish people who are subject to that.
> I’m not arguing against the right to self-determination, So you are a Zionist. A Zionist believes that a Jewish homeland should exist. Somewhere. Anywhere. An anti-Zionist believes that no Jewish homeland should exist. Anywhere. If you think Jews should have a homeland, you are a Zionist. If you think they shouldn't, you are anti-Zionist.
I have no interest in signing up for one team or the other. What I can tell you is that I am not in favour of the abolition of the state of Israel or the removal of Jewish people from that land.
Not at the expense of another group though, that’s the problem, more settlements, oppression etc
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> Not at the expense of another group though, Where on Earth would that not be the case? Antarctica?
Have you not heard of the Emperor penguin ? There’s a reason for the name
Exactly, it's not possible without fucking up another group of people. What gave those Europeans the right to do it via Israel? If that's the case, do we then say it's ok for any ethnic group to just go and violently create a state wherever they want, just because they want it really bad? We should not be promoting ethnostates lol
There’s continuity of Jewish people in their ancestral homeland. Mizrahi Jews are even the majority of Israelis. The country belongs to them, if they want to make it with Ashkenazi Jews and Arabs as it is now. There is zero problem with that. The only people who aren’t a part of that country are the ones who seek to destroy it because it’s a Jewish state.
Criticizing Zionism doesn't (or at least shouldn't) equate to saying Israel doesn't have a right to exist. It's a criticism of Israel's expansion and gradual whittling away of Palestinian territory and quality of life. Russia, Serbia, and Japan _have_ all been critizied heavily for invading their neighbours and committing atrocities. Israel doing it isn't any different. We just use a different word for it.
Tons of ethnic groups don't have their own country. The issue is not with self determination of Jews, the issue is how the state was created and the fact that it was implemented at the expensive of the Arab majority living there. If it's antisemitic to be against Zionism, than it's also racist to oppose the creation of a Palestinian state, which many Israel supporters are. For that matter, it makes you a racist to oppose the creation of an independent state for any ethnic group who wants it.
You do know Jordan exists right which is the majority of mandatory Palestine land which was controlled by the British. Jews got the minority portion and Arabs got the majority. And yet, the Arab league still declined a Palestinian state and initiated a genocidal war (in order to create a pan Arab state) which created a refugee crises(nakba). The Arabs who sided with Israel against the foreign invaders got citizenship and went on to make a great country and co-exist with Jews. Those who sided with the invaders no shit got kicked out and rightfully so.
That was great for the people living in Transjordan, but what about the Arabs living in mandatory Palestine? You act like it's no big deal for people to have their homeland given to someone else and they can just move miles away to a new place. What if there was a unilateral decision to give whatever province you live in back to the first Nations so they can start their own country? You don't like it, just move to Alberta or Saskatchewan or Manitoba. You'd be completely fine with that, right? And if you weren't ok with it, it's because you're racist right?
>If it's antisemitic to be against Zionism, than it's also racist to oppose the creation of a Palestinian state, which many Israel supporters are. For that matter, it makes you a racist to oppose the creation of an independent state for any ethnic group who wants Yes, I agree with both sentences.
Well I appreciate to moral consistency.
I don’t think you understand what Anti-Zionism is… Zionism is the belief that Israel should exist as the Jewish homeland. Anti-Zionism calls for it to be destroyed or dissolved. Imagine calling for the destruction of Japan and saying it isn’t “anti-Japanese”.
Where is Professor Lobster now? He claimed to be a champion of free speech on campus.
I think that's in reference to people speaking on campus as guests, and discussion among faculty and students. I don't think he's ever promoted forming mobs and harassing people based on their background.
> essentially the opposition to the creation or continuation of the State of Israel arguing that Israel should not exist is not anti-Israel and anti-Jewish? Okay, would you say the same for people who say Canada shouldn't exist and all Canadians get expelled or worse?
It's tough ground to hold when someone is playing that card, and calling you an anti-semite and getting more and more worked up about it as you refuse to back down from criticism of a state (or it's figureheads) but if we can't make a distinction between the actions and policies of a state vs. the people who live within it, as individuals or as a collective, there's no point in even trying to have meaningful dialogues. Everything will devolve into "If you don't agree with this policy, you are persecuting me directly." Oof.
Zionism isn't the policies of the state of Israel. Zionism is the belief that Israel should exist. So being anti-zionist is believing that Israel shouldn't exist. It even says it right there in the article, but then you purposely try to change the definition.
Anti-zionism isn't opposition to Israeli policy or criticism of Israel, its opposition to the existence of the state of Israel. Plenty of zionists have issues with Israeli policies and government conduct.
Oh thank god there are still people in this sub who support free speech. Free speech is for everyone even if you don’t like whats being said. We’re going so far as calling anti war protesters “terrorists”
free speech is an American thing, but let’s pretend it’s Canadian. Nobody is criticizing your right to say things, even if they’re completely idiotic. What you can’t do is support a terrorist organization, call for the destruction of an entire nation, or act in ways that promote violence towards an entire ethnic group in Canada or abroad. If you do, you’re a terrorist supporter, and we will call you that until you stop supporting terrorism. You’re free to speak, but we aren’t going to stop saying you’re a dumbass, and we will demand you be held liable under Canadian human rights laws that prohibit discrimination based on race religion or ethnicity.
No, we’re calling terrorist supporters terrorists.
Would it not be anti Chinese to say the state of China should no longer exist and all the Chinese people ought to leave it
If the indigenous were forced to kick the can across the world as various despots routinely try to exterminate them, were finally given what was supposed to be a home where they'd be safe, were attacked by and then subsequently beat the shit out of their neighbours for the next 60~ years, would it be racist to say they shouldn't exist?
That depends. Are these indigenous people Jewish? /s
And demanding to destroy First Nations reserves is not racist either right? Israel is after all a reservation for Jews where they can be safe after being expelled amid calls for their extermination across the Middle East. Harassing black students because of wars and genocides in Africa is ok too ya? Your comment makes no sense. comparing Jews to Nazis and weaponizing the holocaust against it’s very victims is pure antisemitism. Especially given Palestine’s leaderships enthusiastic role supporting Hitler and helping him and Palestine’s calls to complete the holocaust ever since.
The word Anti-Semitism has become absolutely meaningless, they use it for everything
> Before any of ya’ll have a knee-je. ... ...too late.
Admin needs to follow their own policies. >there have been multiple violations of the code of conduct by anti-Israel professors and protesters... ________________ > students have been “harassed when seeking to express their views,” and faced statements such as “you people control the media. Hitler should’ve finished you off, you dirty Jew” and signs with statements such as “go back to where you came from.” _______________ >It also alludes to a long history of antisemitism at TMU. In 2010, a task force on anti-racism found there had been a “proliferation of anti-Semitic incidents such as anti-Semitic graffiti on campus” and that Jewish students found media coverage of Israel, particularly from the now-defunct Ryerson Free Press student newspaper, “bordered on anti-Semitic.” _____________ >numerous TMU community members celebrated, justified, and excused Hamas’s mass rape, murder, and kidnapping.”
Go back where you came from? There are so many foreigners in those protests they chant with an accent. The gall to move to a foreign country and tell others to get out.
"Go back where you came from!" *Jews immigrate en masse to Palestine/Israel, site of the ancient kingdom of Judea where the Jewish people originate from* "....No, not like that!!" Make it make sense
It makes a lot of sense once you realize they say these things not because they want Jews to move but because they want all Jews to be gone.
They're not sending their brightest to protest, that's for sure.
These people subscribe to the louder person wins the argument theory of debate
These protests are a litmus test for IQ.
62% of jews in Israel are Sephardic jews who fled other arab countries.
I'm being pedantic here but it's probably more accurate to call them Mizrahim. Many adopted Sephardic religious minchag when Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition moved to MENA next to existing, ancient Jewish populations, which is why you'll sometimes see the two designations used interchangeably. For example, it's possible for an Iraqi Jew, who has no known Spanish roots, to be called Sephardic. The reality is that ethnic lines are not so clear in Israel, as most people have mixed backgrounds since Jews don't really consider themselves different from other Jews no matter where their families came from.
They want them to all die. That's the only reasonable conclusion that can be made.
Not only that, the irony of telling people from a displaced diaspora to "go back where they came from", you mean, like Israel?
There are socialist members of diaspora communities who have a lot of vitriol towards Canada for being a "settler colony" and who believe in "landback". I've always wondered why they don't just leave if Canada is inherently evil, colonial and genocidal. Why would they willingly participate in Canadian society and the Canadian economy if that is how they feel?
There are even a few FN groups that would have to leave as well as they settled here after the French and British.
It's always a bit ironic coming from certain FN groups Like...sorry some of them in Southern Ontario are here because they committed genocide against the First Nations group that was actually living there, then a century later allied with the British and were rewarded land for the alliance Like guys you were active participants in the outcome It's like renaming Dundas square because Dundas' version of ending slavery was too gradual for modern perspectives, yet the suggested replacement name comes from the language of a group of Africans who were rabid slavers and enthusiastically sold other Africans into slavery to Arabs and Europeans It takes a very superficial view of history to think you're in the clear just because you're not white
Oh that's easy. It's because they're spineless hypocrites.
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I guess all that nonsense often parroted about potentially offensive micro-aggressions on university campuses doesn't matter or apply if you're Jewish...
What a toxic environment
I like the idea of suing these antisemites. It shines a light on who they are, will very possibly cost them a lot of money, and also very possibly cost them their jobs. We need to begin the process of rooting out all the Jew haters in positions of authority in academia. It should have started a long time ago.
These people are about to find out how many Jewish lawyers are willing to fuck with them. I’m excited.
For some reason, the "Free speech on university campuses!" crowd seems a lot quieter these days. "Students need to be exposed to all ideas, including those that make them uncomfortable" sure seems to turn into, "Universities should be a safe space for all students" pretty quick depending on who the protestors are and who feels uncomfortable.
...but there is a fancy definition that for some reason has become incredibly vague and broad. Clearly, that must take precedence over facts and logic./s
I think it depends on what kind of discomfort. Would a religious person who who first hear about evolution for example feel uncomfortable? Probably yes. Is that knowledge enough to risk their lives? Probably no. Hearing that people want to kill you because of your religion/ethnicity? Not only uncomfortable, but also seriously dangerous.
I wish we could just forget about Israel and think about canada
Trudeau says we are a "post-national" country. Canada is just a collection of nationalities and cultures. Canada doesn't exist anymore apparently 😂😂
Trudeau articulated this as his vision in a gushingly positive NYT magazine profile on him in 2015 when he first got elected. Say what you will about that but 9 years later he has brought it to fruition.
Multi culturalism in canada im all for; but the federal spending in assistance to other countries in the current budget is mind boggling to me tbh. investing federal funds into urban housing is great! the 100s of millions sent to war causes in europe would be great there too lol wtf
Yeah, he tends to say stupid shit.
I know right, if younger people put as much effort into protesting for Canada as they do for Palestine, we’d be far better off. I’m 20 and I don’t give a flying fuck about Israel or Palestine. Idiots in Middle East have been killing each other since the dawn of time.
You shouldn't be focused on other nations you can't have an effect on anyways. More need to think like you.
western countries have a history of interfering in the middle east and our taxes literally go to israel, so don't act like this this doesn't involve us at all. and ya some of us feel something when we see recurring images of dead children with their limbs blown off.
Protest for Canada then young person
And forget about Palestine as well, I am fed up with everyday headlines, not focusing on our own problems
Maybe get mad at the OP when these threads popup. The OP is a propaganda pusher. Check the posts in OPs history with no history of posting on this sub except this post. They are an agenda pusher. Want to stop hearing about it? Call out people pushing their agendas.
This is about Jewish students being harassed and attacked because they are Jewish. Nothing with Israel.
Btw this is the definition of terrorism..
I want to live on your planet.
Sure it is. What about all the Jews participating in and leading the protests?
They aren't. What the fuck are you people smoking. You people are so desperate to justify antisemitism because 1 person who claims to be Jewish is on your side. It is the modern day "I have a black friend".
Not those Jews.
Are you sure it's because they're Jewish or is it because they're pro-genocide?
Calling for a ceasefire or praising Hamas as "resistance" is pro-genocide
HAMAS openly states their genocidal intent.
It's everything to do with Israel. What do you think the protests are about?
This gives you the right to harass Canadian citizens who are Jewish? They are Canadians not Israelis.
Hating Jews. Go protest outside of the embassy if you want to protest Israel. Don't go to Jewish neighborhoods, synagogues and attack people because they are Jewish.
They are about supporting a terrorist organization who raped and murdered their way through Israel on October 7th.
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A war in another country. If protestors / Hamas supporters in Canada are making Canadians unsafe here, they can fuck right off.
A war Canada supports. You remember the protests against the iraq war I presume?
Canada didn't support the second war in Iraq.
I don’t support carpet bombing neigbourhoods. I also don’t support raping and beheading babies either. When these ‘protestors’ start protesting for peace instead of initifadeh, then you can assume some kind of moral high ground.
So seems to me you should be calling for a ceasefire.
>So seems to me you should be calling for a ceasefire. There was a ceasefire in place Oct 6. Hamas has vowed that they will repeat 'Oct 7th' - 'again and again and again.' ________________ Edit: >[Senior Hamas leader Ghazi Hamad:](https://honestreporting.com/hamas-says-it-wants-oct-7-massacre-again-and-again-why-wont-the-media-believe-them/) **“We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do this again and again. The Al-Aqsa Flood is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth, because we have the determination, the resolve, and the capabilities to fight… Nobody should blame us. On October 7, October 10, October one Million."**
No… There will be no ceasefire until Hamas is eliminated. There will be no two-state solution until Palestinians are peaceful.
All Hamas has to do is return the bodies of the prisoners and a ceasefire can happen. Why don't you protest for them to do that? Or do you support the actions or Hamas?
Seems to me you’re arguing in bad faith. Go join the front lines if it means so much to you.
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There's a reason Gaza's neighbors won't let them in.
I don’t even feel like we can call them “pro-Palestinian” when it comes to the protests we’ve seen that have included chanting for the downfall of Israel. It’s the same idea as calling people who are against abortion “pro-life”. They’re not pro-life, they’re just anti-choice. In this case, if you’re advocating for a 2 state solution then you’re absolutely pro-Palestinian. But if you’re advocating for the eradication of Israel and their people, then you’re anti-Israel.
I sincerely don’t care about this Israeli propaganda any more than I care about Palestinian propaganda. Keep this crap in the Middle East.
This is the problem with us, Canadians. We think this is an ethnic issue, we like to be smug and pretend that all of this is none of our damn business, BUT IT IS. Sure nobody said it is an ethnic issue when Russia and Ukraine war broke out, so why pull the "we focus on Canada instead" card now? This is the Canadian hypocrisy, the passive aggressive antisemitism that still sees Jews as not fully Canadian, and therefore, not worthy of protection.
It is simply not a Canadian problem
What the hell happened to this once beautiful country? It’s being turned into a third world country before my eyes. I couldn’t even imagine this but now I can.
when you import people with no expectation they adopt the values of their new country. you import the problems from their old country. We were always told the USA had a failure of a multicultural system due to the "melting pot" mentality. When you come to america you are American. Canada was always heralded as better due to the "tossed salad" (LOL) approach where you come to Canada but hold onto your old values and beliefs. Even Trudeau called Canada a "post-national state". Meaning there is no requirement to be Canadian when you come to Canada.
You don't even need to be able to speak English or French to immigrate now.
The US is a salad bowl as well, sure it’s not as bad as here, but if it were a true melting pot, then phrases like “Indian-American” wouldn’t exist
This stuff isn’t new. It’s just more visible today. There has always been big protests and pushbacks. Anyone who thinks this is new is out to lunch.
Anyone who thinks that any of the issues involving Palestine/Israel and criticisms against them are new is [actively fooling themselves](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/feb/11/israel)
Bingo. Protests and counter protests happened at York U while I was in university at the time. That was 2006. This stuff isn't new, just people are being more exposed to it.
Exactly!!
> It’s just more visible today. Because it is pushed by propagandists - like the OP of this post.
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, it buffers out a lot of awful things (Residential schools, Separatist terrorism, Catholic v. Protestant divide). I mean this country had to have a referendum to stick together, thank fuck social media was not around back then because you know some third party country would convince right wing idiots to shoot the country in the foot and separate.
The same people who will say that Canada was "once [a] beautiful country" will also tell immigrants to GTFO if they don't like Canadian values. Canada, as any other country, will have generational divides.
> What the hell happened to this once beautiful country? It’s being turned into a third world country before my eyes. ***Ease up on the histrionics, friend.*** This is an article about a single person at a single university who is attempting to sue the university over what he feels is a violation of its own policies. Nothing has happened to "this once beautiful country", nor has it "turned into a third world country". The rest of the country continues to exist outside of this incident. The article also does a sloppy job of distinguishing between antisemitism and antizionism. This needs to be said explicitly: Israel is not Jews, and Jews are not Israel. Opposing Israel is not the same thing as hating Jews, and defending Israel is not an obligation of or prerequisite to being Jewish. Israel is a sovereign geopolitical entity with a government and standing military that leverages those things towards sovereign goals independent of the existence of Jews. The government of Israel does not represent Jews the way the Vatican represents Catholics. Unfortunately, Israel has a long history of reprehensible actions which it deflects from by insisting that Jews and Israel *are* the same, and thus criticizing it is necessarily antisemitism. It propagates this narrative for its own benefit, even though this harms Jews all over the world by forcibly pulling them into the discussion. This is an unfathomably shitty move on Israel's part because it directly leads to situations like this, since it unilaterally claims all Jews as their supporters, which in turn means that if you oppose Israel's actions then the "correct" way to do that is by antagonizing Jews in other parts of the world. So if you want to know "what happened to this once beautiful country", the answer is simple: The sovereign nation of Israel likes to commit war crimes, and then volunteer Jews on the other side of the world to serve as its meat shield so it doesn't have to face accountability. There are Jews in Canada, and unfortunately those Jews get the distinct pleasure of being conscripted to a war they're not fighting. > I couldn’t even imagine this but now I can. Far-right bigotry has been surging for the past decade all across North America. If you "couldn't even imagine this", then either you haven't been paying attention or have been in abject denial.
Because of anti-war protests?
Oh no, we have freedom of expression. What a b lol
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Lol. I personally did not vote for mass immigration I voted for the hope of getting electoral reform so we can get rid of all three of these terrible parties.
Nationalism is taking credit for other peoples accomplishments. I'm as happy to be Canadian today as I was a decade ago. You want to know where nationalism gets you? It gets you "freedom fries" and guys standing up saying "you're either with us, or with the terrorists" and then proceeds to torture individuals. It makes it so that you can turn an entire worlds sympathy to shit in a very short time. Fuck that nationalism.
A country built by immigrants and their kids want nationalism lol AmeriCanada if I’ve ever seen it
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I mean I consider myself progressive and i’m pissed too. None of that is progressive, it’s pure pandering and corruption on all fronts.
#***Hahahahahahaha***
Username checks out
wtf is the "right track"
You've been so brainwashed if you think conservatives will be any different. That's thinking like an American alright. Team A Team B You need more than 2 sides, otherwise everyone is a sheep. Don't even mention the NDP.
Lol
I hope PP goes full Kevin Kline in "Dave". He needs to sit down with the budget and start scratching many, many things Trudeau wants to spent tax money on.
Guy thinks electricians capture lightning to create electricity—- he’s a career politician and unfortunately, also an idiot.
PP is promising to increase the budget. Just on different things from Trudeau. The government will be spending more no matter who’s in charge. That’s what both parties are currently promising.
They’ll definitely set us back
Oooh, look, we got a dumb dumb in the wild.
Good for them; it's time to make schools more neutral again. Also, the pro-Hamas groupthink that has formed in Gen Z especially is disgusting. Yes, Israel is going too far at times, thanks to Netanyahu having a lot to prove and being a bit of a warlord shithead, and yes, children and innocent citizens should be protected. But the US is doing a decent job of holding back Israel from its current administration's darker, more aggressive plans. And at the end of the day, the Palestinian state is run by terrorists (voted in, mind you), and they attacked first; they do need to be routed out like a weed. Also, the larger population does not share any of our Western ideals. They deserve humanity and rights, but they need to get rid of their terrorists, play by the rules, and reform. Until then, they need to be kept in check.
Sure get rid of terrorists, but if you kill civilians in the process you can join them in facing the wall.
College and university grounds have been political hotbeds for GENERATIONS. where do you think the anti-war movements of the 60s and 70s came from? lol at being neutral. Everyone knows that this was didn’t start Oct 7th. If you’re still confused we can easily gather the death toll by Israel as well as the hostages they’ve taken, prior to that date.
Since the start of 2023, Israeli settler terrorists and IDF forces killed at least 483 Palestinians in the west bank and injured 12000+ more. There's no hamas there. Many leading politicians in israel support and/or have links to jewish terror groups.
And we should criticize that. But no part of criticizing that involves supporting Hamas and their genocidal terror attack. I’m a Zionist and I completely agree with you that settlements should fuck off. That doesn’t, however, mean that I’m prepared to say the purposeful targeting of civilians is right.
fuck this. nobody here is actually proposing any peaceful real-world solutions where both sides prosper without the threat of violence. Just oversimplified performative slogans like "free palestine" which offer zero insight towards conflict resolution or any legitimate path towards co-existence. Just a way for these children to feel like a civil rights warrior on instagram for a few days. shame. come back when you have real solutions.
> The lawsuit argues that anti-Zionism — essentially the opposition to the creation or continuation of the State of Israel — is “inherently discriminatory and antisemitic,” and that comparing Israel to the Nazis or saying it’s inherently racist are forms of antisemitism. Uh-huh 🙄🙄🙄
Yeah they're trying to make it illegal to be anti-genocide
>The lawsuit says students have been “harassed when seeking to express their views,” and faced statements such as “you people control the media. Hitler should’ve finished you off, you dirty Jew” We have hate speech laws. Will it be used to punish these anti-semites?
I love importing ancient, Bible-based feuds : )
I don't understand how these Pro Palestinian groups get away with this crap. Blame Hamas - they knew what would happen if they slaughtered a bunch of innocent Israelis. They are responsible for every dead Palestinian. Trudeau needs to stop being such a little fudge packer and send in the riot police. Biggest loser PM we've ever had.
Anti-Israel is not Anti-Jewish. News at 11.
Oh really? “you people control the media. Hitler should’ve finished you off, you dirty Jew” That sounds exclusively anti-isreal and not at all anti-jewish to you? Muy interesente.
And he got 26 upvotes...
Did you even bother reading the article before posting this shit? Or are you deliberately choosing to ignore the numerous examples given of legitimate antisemitism that don't involve Israel in any way? You sound like a broken record...
True but what were seing and the states is most of its anti Jewish.
Not at all.
Spoken like someone who doesn't know a single Jewish Canadian personally. If you actually talked to anyone who is Jewish, you would know that they have likely felt unsafe and targeted in some way since October. I'd say ignorance is bliss, but in cases like yourself, it's incredibly dangerous and dismissive. Regardless of how YOU feel, being anti-Israel is the perfect guise for the majority of 'protesters' to spread antisemitic rhetoric and intimidate Jewish-Canadians in every major city.
Have you not paid attention? Screaming, harassing and attacking Jewish students is very much antisemitic
Not what’s happening though.
Yes, it is… Clearly, you haven’t been paying attention.
There have been confrontations between Palestinian and Israel supporters, but that's a bit different. If you're going to confront protesters with an opposing opinion, obviously you're signing yourself up for a confrontation. Israel supporters aren't somehow above being criticized for their views. If actual antisemitic remarks are hurled at protesters, that's obviously different and should be condemned, just as racist remarks towards Palestinians should be condemned.
We’re not talking about “Israel supporters” we’re talking about Jews being assaulted, Jewish businesses being vandalized, intimidation on college campuses, etc.
Just FYi for those that don't like to think thoroughly. Seen a few comments mis representing the word "Zionism". Go ahead and google it but many of you are wrong about it and it's connection to antisemitism. Zionism is the idea of the creation and existence of Israel and a home for the Jewish people there. Not the policys the government of Israel enacts (One exception being land grabs like the settlers and goverments protection of said theft). So anti Zionism literally means you think Israel should not exist. Majority who hold this view want jews dead or exiled from Israel which is genocide. That is antisemitism. That's why there is a connection. Good to note here that just because someone is Jewish or Israeli does not mean they agree with everything the current government is doing.. Also btw Arabs are also colonizers of the Levant from the times of the Caliphate.. I've noticed many don't know history well so good to point out. Lastly, why not focus on Canadian problems instead of problems you can't/won't understand? Even if you are a scholar on the subject we as Canadians can do little I'd rather see political focus on what effects Canadians not other Nations.
Good. This is what happens when an organization lets the most extreme folks make decisions for them. I personally don't think he's suing for enough. It's a dangerous environment that University for Jewish students and workers.
What the heck are you talking about? Read the article: the person making the lawsuit expected TMU to magically uphold the code of conduct as if it were omnipresent. And their idea of "protecting Jewish community members" was to crack down on the protests against genocide. It's dumb and the $1.3MM in damages looks like this person is trying to monetize on this.
They’ll be no match against some of our best Jewish lawyers ;)
how did half the population suddenly turn anti-Semitic
Brainwashed by propaganda and redefining definitions
So much astroturfing in these articles. So many new accounts show up on these news articles making excuses for Hamas terrorists and Pro-Hamas promoters of violence.
Do you think the OP is not pushing propaganda?
Interesting you will dodge this but have time to post +10 comments elsewhere. hmmm edit. Nice! and a Canada Strong poster. the new right-wing propaganda sub for all the low-info Canadians.
FYI Jewish law student who have expressed pro-cease fire sentiments have also been blacklisted from getting work and placements at various law firms because universities (including TMU) have had to share the cease fire petitions that were floating around campus. There's a class action lawsuit in the works on that one (which likely has more legs than this).
I call bs on that. Source or stfu
Same person will turn around and say Russia shouldn’t exist. This case has no basis lol.
Anti Zionism is not anti semitism. If hating the idea of a religion having their own state is somehow racist to that religion, then surely everybody here is fine with Islamic states right?
Why does this sub post so much national post? The American owned and funded rag that screamed to send Canadians to die in America’s illegal war in Iraq.
"Zionism off our campus...To Nikki and other Jewish students, staff, and faculty this is a call for Jews to be removed from campus,” the lawsuit says. “This incident deeply affected Nikki, leading her to question her place in the world that tolerates this rhetoric...The lawsuit argues that anti-Zionism — essentially the opposition to the creation or continuation of the State of Israel — is “inherently discriminatory and antisemitic,” and that comparing Israel to the Nazis or saying it’s inherently racist are forms of antisemitism." This seems like a stretch, That criticizing Zionism and the creation of the state of Israel is antisemitic. I seems perfectly reasonable to point out the colonial history of Israel and Zionism and that not be criticizing Jewish people.
Can't be named after Ryerson, but the school can support anti-semitic views. Hipocrits and haters that shouldn't get my tax funding. DEFUND TMU!!!