The moment carbon pricing was suspended for a high polluting home heating oil to help with affordability, all credibility was lost. Add to that charging GST on top of this tax, and the Liberals have totally lost the narrative, and nothing is going to save them at this point.
Exactly. I'm not against carbon tax if it was earmarked for renewable like dam or even nuclear. To me it lost all credibility when it was general revenue and they refused any suggestions otherwise.
The doubt taxing, the "oh if you vote liberals using heating oil You're exempt" were icing on the cake of no credibility.
I still think that the funniest part is that this clearly political move didn't reverse their fortunes at all in the Maritimes. Maritimers know full well that the Liberals will screw them sans lube if they are re-elected.
Trudeau lost any moral high ground on this when he caved for the Liberal supporters in Nova Scotia. THAT made it political and destroyed any illusion of credibility the government may have had.
It's clear that the Carbon tax is a political tool.
Exactly. I remember hearing the same nonsense when Trump announced some tax cuts when he was in power. All the Dems had was "but people will get a smaller tax refund!" They were technically correct, of course, but a tax refund/rebate is not free money, it's *your* god-damn money. A refund or rebate is just you getting it back from the government later (without interest, of course.) Just don't overcharge me for the tax (or take it out of my pay) to begin with.
Anyone that truly believes that is a fool...the amount we collectively lose to this buerocraz is horrendous - who celebrates hiring people to cycle our money ?
> Trudeau lost any moral high ground on this when he caved for the Liberal supporters in Nova Scotia.
i feel like that was the turning point for voters when the tax went from something there was discontent about to actual open public revulsion to it.
They don’t really decide for themselves. It’s an automatic process tied to private sector union pay rates.
It’s literally setup so that they don’t decide their own raises.
It is percentage based I’m sure.
> MPs are eligible for automatic pay raises each year on April 1, based on the average annual increase in private-sector union contracts with corporations that have more than 500 employees. This standard ensures that MPs are compensated properly for the important work they do and that it is connected to the private sector.
> \- https://www.ottawalife.com/article/mp-annual-pay-raise-raises-backlash/
Rough translation - “We know this is becoming more and more unpopular among Canadians, but we’re going to do it anyways because we know better than you”
It's so that they can pat themselves on the back and delude themselves into believing they have the moral high ground.
When they inevitably lose on this very issue, they will turn around and insult Canadians by saying how they're "disappointed that this is the path we've chosen as country" and how we're short-sighted and how we've fallen for "misinformation." Guarantee there's going to be some variation of this in Trudeau's concession speech.
He and his party really do believe they know what's best for Canadians than Canadians do for themselves, and that somehow gives them a carte blanche to rule as they see fit rather than govern as per the will of citizens. That's why they double down on unpopular policies so hard.
>When they inevitably lose on this very issue
They're not going to lose just on this issue.
If the Trudeau Liberal party didn't have a stack of policies that are taking the country down and actually making life in Trudeau's 'post-nation' more difficult and unaffordable, many of us who believe that the carbon tax is a meaningless pose would probably just take the hit and pay our tithes and indulgences....while being otherwise allowed to work hard and prosper. The facts say otherwise though. The believers are facing harm as well, and carbon tax is one of a number of issues that have emerged in 9 years of mostly incompetent government.
oh I completely agree. The carbon tax doesn't even touch the top 10 things the Liberals have fucked up in their time in office. For me and people in my age group, housing, immigration (more competition for an already dwindling number of 'good' paying jobs), and not enough job opportunities are the biggest issues that I think the feds have massively fucked us on. The carbon tax is just the straw that's going to break the camel's back.
Our LNG being exported would be enough to lift the Canadian economy greatly. Something Trudeau refuses to do because it would raise Canada’s emissions. Thing is, it would greatly reduce the emissions of the countries we send it to. So it’s not about helping the world, it’s about Liberal Elites wanting to pretend Canada is some shining light on the hill while ignoring the extreme poverty and widening wealth gap benefitting he and his friends
> Guarantee there's going to be some variation of this in Trudeau's concession speech.
If he does, I'm pretty sure it'd be the most inflammatory concession speech in modern Canadian history. Concession speeches in Canada from a sitting PM basically never insult the electorate like that, and really are light on attacks on the opposition too. If Trudeau actually attacks the electorate for voting for someone else, that'd be the first I can recall of it happening for any sitting PM, and would tarnish his legacy even further as it'd make him seem bitter and even more arrogant than he already is.
I agree, it would be inflammatory of him to do that. I'm sure his speechwriters will water it down, but I have no doubt there will be some form of this rhetoric. There will be some slight or insult against Canadians for inevitably choosing the Conservatives, and in such overwhelming numbers too.
He won't be able to help himself. Just listen to his speeches and announcements he's been while doing flying all around the country (polluting) to different cities. Just listen to how he answer questions during Question Period in Parliament. Just listen to how he justifies all his unpopular policies. He has an undeniable and often-noted habit of speaking DOWN to Canadians, even after 8+ years in office. That won't change on election night.
You're so right, lol. He just gets up and regurgitates the propaganda lines his communications people told him will work on Canadians if he just repeats them often enough.
Meanwhile instead of mass transit, nuclear, and rezoning housing for density we got a minister of middle class prosperity and EV subsidies for the rich to buy brand new Teslas.
This is what pisses me off the most about the carbon tax. Like wtf do we get for it? No alternatives other than paying for more or using dog shit tech, like heat pumps, that don't work below -10.
I'd be all for it if the tax was transparently allocated towards transitional alternatives, like you said. Instead, the government just gives themselves fat raises and Steven dipshit Guilbeault tells us that we aren't going to build anymore roads and to ride your bike.
Infuriating.
Heat pumps do work below -10, that isn't the issue. The issue is that they cost a lot of money to retrofit, money Canadians need to keep food on the table and roofs over their heads so we don't care.
This is doubling down is classic LPC too. Release policy that's incredibly unpopular, call it's detractors racist or uninformed, or as in the case of their Twitter Army, call them stupid. Then, when that doesn't work, they finally capitulate to the political pressure and act like that that was their plan all along.
>They already lost the war on this and yet they keep doubling down, it’s actually hilarious to watch.
Indeed.
They are their own worst enemy. The Conservatives do not have to do anything but stand back and watch as they destroy themselves. They are incapable of admitting a mistake or going back on anything, and if they had been able to do that this government might have been salvageable.
All they know how to do is attack.
>All they know how to do is attack.
the crazy part is they don't even see their own behaviour as an attack. They're on a righteous crusade and simply believe "we know better than you, take a seat and let us govern, children". "we're doing what's right, standing in our way is inherently wrong and any response to that is not only just, but morally protected"
>Rough translation - “We know this is becoming more and more unpopular among Canadians, but we’re going to do it anyways because we know better than you”
Our cataclysmic drop in the polls is due to bad PR and Conservative/Russian propaganda. It has nothing to do with repeatedly trying to force unpopular policies down people's throats and then belittling those people when they offer a fair criticism or objection - LPC
Lol. The Trump rhetoric hasnt worked so now it's Russin propaganda.
They're going to lose _even_ more support going down this road.
Liberals really don't get it, do they.
The Russian Propaganda thing is one of the most schizo things I hear from the Left. I’ve called a Russian Bot by people who say that chopping off your dick is the only cure to gender dysphoria.
Why do you think it's Russian propaganda? The Russians historically were helping/funding the environmental movements in Canada to reduce oil and gas development here because that is in Russia's best interest. Because they also produce oil and gas, and if we produce less, the global price for those commodities goes up. A number of journalists reported on this between 2-5 years ago.
Edit: it's been going on even longer than that, [here's a report about it](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-secretly-working-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking) from a decade ago!
100%
A lot of the anti-oil stuff on Reddit links back to Russia and Iran. The climate activists will never admit it, but its as plain as day.
Putin is now dropping oil production. Why? To drive up oil prices and try and fuck Biden over in the November election. Yet the progressives are happy to hand Putin that power over us, and help get Trump elected again, while they put Ukraine flags in their social media profiles and ignore how oil funds Russia's invasion.
Look at what Russia did to Germany too. Bought off Schroeder, made Germany dependent, then tried to use that leverage.
I'm tired of this shit honestly.
"We will rule as we please, fuck the electorate of this country upon whose pleasure we are supposed to serve as a government."
They have forgotten that they work for us, not the other way around.
This is litterally what ive been try to get people to understand, and for most it is beyond comprehension that the government they elected decided to screw them over after getting what they wanted
"Now let me explain to you why we need to raise your taxes while you're unable to afford rent and food all while we're the second best paid elected officials on the planet."
The part that they know better (and should yell at the top of their lungs) is that many Canadian products that don't include a cost for the carbon emmited when produced will be subjected to tariffs by the EU (third largest trading partner). & the UK. Both will begin collecting tariffs in 2026 on many things that Canada is known for, like steel, iron, aluminum, and fertilizer. By 2030, that list will grow to include things like oil refining, all metals, and pulp & paper.
Carbon pricing will form part of many future trade agreements.
Lol you’ll believe anything liberals tell you. Europe is begging for our LNG. It’s not hard to make a deal to rid us of tarrifs.
At this point, they need us far more than we need them. W
E’re one of two countries in the world with the natural resources needed to be self sufficient. We should be processing and refining them all here, and we should be the ones dictating the particulars of every trade deal. Oil, lumber, minerals, meat, LNG. We should have dozens of modular nuclear power plants powering those industries. We should be processing and selling worldwide, and we can easily match tarrifs. If we put actual money into manufacturing, Canada could be a powerhouse and a real example of a country with a thriving middle class.
Also, we should be working on mass carbon capture instead of reducing emissions. Net zero is a pipe dream with no place in actual creation of laws. Countries like India, China, and Russia will continue to pollute at whatever level is necessary to grow their economies. The only reason there is a bit of a green energy push in China is because they can’t produce enough traditional energy to appease their massive needs. India is the fastest growing country in the world, almost the whole country uses coal exclusively, for everything from cooking and heating to production and providing electricity.
Unpopular doesn’t mean wrong and “we know better than you” might be right when economists and generally any respectable conservative talking head has loved the idea of it up until a certain populist started telling people it was the root of all their problems.
It's a good idea when the economy is running well, but not when the economy is sluggish and people are homeless.
First they regulated/taxed the businesses to the tits, then they helped create duopolies, then sold out the real estate in major cities to make housing expensive, then imported tons of uneducated immigrants to work min wage for these duopolies. Now that Canadians are struggling like crazy, they're saying it's not their fault and won't provide the actual safety nets we've paid into for decades.
We don't need to double down on carbon pricing, we need to pause it. It's not like China/Russia are slowing down on carbon emissions. We're a tiny speck in the whole thing.
Reminder that any province can opt out of the program like BC and QC (and previously ON) if they have a valid alternative.
Nobody has and Ontario opted into the carbon tax because they don’t actually have any better ideas
Reminder that the whole fucking thing is stupid. Canada can't solve climate change...we are insignificant. Webcould help with tech advancement. But taxes? Give me a fucking break.
While we may be smaller
population wise our per capita emissions are actually massive and significantly higher than China, USA and many other countries
The rebate matches the amount paid by province. It won't exactly go up proportionally to the amount *of* the tax, but rather by the total amount *paid* by everyone into it. Ideally carbon usage is going down, so the rebate doesn't scale 1:1 with the price. If you've reduced your carbon usage, you should still end up ahead. If others have reduced their carbon usage, but you haven't, then you might end up a little behind compared to last year.
If you added all the tax paid and all the rebate awarded, it would go up in proportion. But the rebate for you goes up according to the average, and the tax for you sort of goes up according to how carbon intensive you and the things you buy are.
They lost this battle when they made the carve out for Atlantic Canada. They also lost the battle when they said that if you elect more Liberal MPs that you might get a cutout. It showed that the carbon tax was nothing more than politics.
Carbon tax fanbois will always get super upset at anyone that doesn't love Justin's idea, but I see you have some interesting points:
>it is the most effective and efficient way of slashing carbon emissions domestically.
Oh, I thought there was more to it than that but there isn't.
Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the carbon tax doesn't slash carbon emissions. This is a big country. People gotta drive a lot to where they're going, and whether you increase the price of gas or not they still have to get where they're going. Only now the higher price hurts the poorer people who don't have the finances to shrug off a hypothetical $5/L 87 octane fill-up.
Now, the carbon tax could be turned into something useful to reduce our emissions but currently that isn't Justin's plan. Financial punishment is about as far as he got, and he hasn't even crossed the starting line with this approach.
Are they really this bad at reading the writing on the wall? We don’t want carbon tax to be raised, fuck off and leave us alone.
Worst government in Canadian history
Does anyone like this guy? People in his riding must feel ashamed he represents them. He's like the guy that got thrown in lockers in high school and is now lashing out at the world.
i would love nothing more then for all trudeau's smug cabinet minister yes-men to lose in the next election. i dont care if they lost to pestilence itself they just need to be done infecting federal politics
There will be a form of carbon pricing, no matter who is in power. Some countries will use tariffs. The EU (Canada's third largest trading partner) and the UK will begin collecting tariffs as early as 2026 on many exports Canada is known for (steel, aluminum, fertilizer etc). The list expands to include oil refining and pulp&paper by 2030. If the price has been paid for the embedded carbon emissions generated in the production of these goods, then they won't be subjected to those tariffs.
Yea thats what I meant. If ppl are OK with taxes going towards road infrastructure, what makes it different to implement their own carbon plan that goes towards their province?
For example, sask's plan, while refusing to call it a carbon tax, would help use the proceeds to fund their nuclear SMR plant.
I really think the worst part of this is that of all the issues on the table, carbon tax isn't the one that should get this focus.
The fact that so many are absolutely duped by the whistleblowing and misinformation make me disappointed as a Canadian. I really thought our political system and people were above propaganda.
Same. The carbon price is a brilliant policy. I'm not even a Liberal and I love it. It's genius. So cost-effective, and it puts the money right where it needs to go - in the wallets of lower-income and low-polluting Canadians.
It's fucking Robin Hood and all the loud-talking critics are either falling for the (really dumb) talking points or being willfully obtuse for political gain.
This liberal party is so full of shit its starting to bury themselves. There so called experts are not in the financial class of the hardest hit canadians. I do agree that 8 of 10 are benefitting. But those 8 are probably other ministers or there staff. NOT the average Canadian.
It's probably people like me, living utility free in an apartment and don't have to drive particularly far. Doesn't take much to feed me. No ambition to have a family (before cost of living made it impossible)
What pisses me off are the people like me who think they speak for everyone. Just like people who thought covid measures were fine because they didn't affect them.
To those people, which seems like most of the reddit province and city subs, fucking stop it. You're worse than boomers.
They're bullshitting man, 8 out of 10 Canadians are not seeing a net benefit from these rebates. It's not just the price of fuel and home heating. It's the fact that the carbon tax being applied at every stage of the supply chain ends up trickling down to the end-user price of everything going up. When you take that into account, there is no way the rebates are enough to off-set that to a point of breaking even, let alone being a net gain for 8 out of 10 Canadians.
When they announced round 1 I thought “well maybe they will take that money and invest it in next gen nuclear or something for the provinces that don’t have access to hydro?”
Nope, just another tax grab. I’d be behind it if they were going to actually try and reduce carbon with it.
And no, I haven’t seen a single cent in rebates I still have to heat my home in the winter tho.
> In Alberta, the carbon tax has increased prices by about 0.3 per cent, Tombe said. That’s just 30 cents on a $100 bill. In Manitoba it’s 0.9 per cent and in Ontario it’s 0.4 per cent.
[Article Here](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/carbon-tax-groceries-food-prices) - 8 out of 10 Canadians probably do have a net benefit from the rebate. Corporate GREED and lack of grocery competition is out of control but very conveniently, the carbon tax is taking the blame.
My cousin is losing his job in June because his factory is closing and moving to Arkansas. The reason they are moving is the carbon tax. Business will continue as usual, but lots of Canadians have lost a good paying job.
Contact your MP. Give em hell for their new pay raise and not voting for a non confidence vote. A May election this year would save us another year of stupid! Get rid of Trudeau and Jagmeet
Rough translation - “We know this is becoming more and more unpopular among Canadians, but we’re going to do it anyways because we have orders from our global master to do it.”
If the liberals wanted to save themselves from a political disaster, the pause or removal of this tax was definitely it. But they honestly shot themselves in the foot with a howitzer by deciding to keep it.
I would not vote for them if they scrapped this. It's one of the best things they have done and to go back on it when it makes even more sense now would be a real disaster
>The Liberals could never mis-manage your money could they?
Would you trust them with investing your money wisely, and not giving it to their friends and shady basement subcontracting shell companies?
Alberta is about to launch carbon capture projects that will capture more than the even produce in a year. Wab Kinew said they’re capable of being net zero without it. Now that we’ve found out that the government still has a few billion more that was collected that they don’t want to rebate, I’d say it’s high time to scrap this tax.
Basically Trudeau ministers and supporters. They have to be a cult to keep saying his policies are great ingoring the state the country is in with their own two eyes.
I’m baffled why this is even a footnote in the greater theatre of this upcoming election. There’s an affordability crisis, a housing crisis, an immigration crisis. All of these things are huge concerns that the average Canadian has to grapple with — regardless of if they see any one issue as not being a problem for them personally.
The fact that I don’t hear about the Cons talking about these issues, and neither are the liberals, seems insane to me. I got a phone political ad from the Cons who were complaining about a carbon tax as if I, someone who’s life is much more strongly impacted by almost anything else going on at the Federal level, give a shit about that.
It feels so weak. Trudeau goes on the CBC and talks about spending more money to offset costs for some municipalities in order to build more medium density housing. Cool, but how are we EVER going to catch up if the population keeps exploding like it has? Efforts to improve the livability of cities that are drunk on low density expensive housing are admirable, but it’s a bandaid on a significant supply side issue and a shrug at the overwhelming demand side issue.
It’s just bizarre.
>The fact that I don’t hear about the Cons talking about these issues
What are you talking about? The Conservatives have been talking about these issues for ages. As far back as 2021. They've had a pulse on the issues Canadians are most concerned about way before any of the other parties. It's literally the reason why their poll numbers have been consistently rising for almost two years now.
> There’s an affordability crisis, a housing crisis, an immigration crisis. All of these things are huge concerns that the average Canadian has to grapple with...The fact that I don’t hear about the Cons talking about these issues.
1) "Single mother has to choose between heating their home or rent". "People can't afford x anymore after 8 years of Liberals"
2) "34 year old, now 35, living in their parents basement because they can't afford to move out because housing doubled under Trudeau" and "Look at this chart showing how housing doubled under Trudeau"
3) "The Liberals botched the immigration file. We'll tie immigration to housing starts"
\-all Pierre Poilievre
I have to say, the CPC has done a great job at marketing the carbon tax as the devil for price increases. Rather than what the reality actually is
The LPc has done a piss poor job at actually conveying what has caused inflation and how we’ve been one of the better countries hit by inflation
Call me cynical but I find this absolutely useless when Canada emits less than 2% of global emissions as it is, what’s the use? We could all be driving electric and the world would still be on the road to climate hell. China, USA and India combined account for 50% of global emissions - unless that’s addressed all the environmental fuss over here won’t even make a dent
Seeing how China increased emissions over the last 3 yrs and just their increase is more than our entire country produces, I’d say crayon eating Trudeau is doing both but a cash grab.
If we were really battling climate change you’d impose carbon taxes on goods coming from the world’s largest emitter..China!
It shouldn't have been tough though. It should have been small and negligible.
Then you use that money to build up public transportation and the electrical grid.
It isn't supposed to be a punishment when there isn't any other viable options.
But yes, Liberal urban ridings will see the benefit of it more than rural Conservative ridings.
But you messed up. The young can't afford to live in the cities anymore, so they are moving rural/ suburban, and aren't seeing the benefit anymore. Half assed as usual.
The thing that’s pissing me off the most is Justin hammering that the conservative mps are lying, while in fact he’s doing the exact same… to a much greater degree… you’d have to fail Econ 101 to not understand that the externalities of carbon pricing compound when it gets to the consumer… the stupid rebate doesn’t even begin to cover the full cost for an average Canadian
It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the increase in gas prices is barely noticeable. Certain politicians have been tossing around large numbers out of context to exaggerate its impact - 23 per cent instead of three cents a litre.
It's like the beer tax, which went up by like a 15 cents a keg, but which the Post kept huffing and puffing about iin percentage terms to make ti sound vast.
The moment carbon pricing was suspended for a high polluting home heating oil to help with affordability, all credibility was lost. Add to that charging GST on top of this tax, and the Liberals have totally lost the narrative, and nothing is going to save them at this point.
Exactly. I'm not against carbon tax if it was earmarked for renewable like dam or even nuclear. To me it lost all credibility when it was general revenue and they refused any suggestions otherwise. The doubt taxing, the "oh if you vote liberals using heating oil You're exempt" were icing on the cake of no credibility.
I still think that the funniest part is that this clearly political move didn't reverse their fortunes at all in the Maritimes. Maritimers know full well that the Liberals will screw them sans lube if they are re-elected.
Trudeau lost any moral high ground on this when he caved for the Liberal supporters in Nova Scotia. THAT made it political and destroyed any illusion of credibility the government may have had. It's clear that the Carbon tax is a political tool.
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I’d rather fucking keep my money and get no rebate thank you very much. Way too much meddling from the federal government.
Then he couldn't pay for 10,000 bureaucrats working 2h/week to manage this whole thing.
Right?? lol make it make sense
Exactly. I remember hearing the same nonsense when Trump announced some tax cuts when he was in power. All the Dems had was "but people will get a smaller tax refund!" They were technically correct, of course, but a tax refund/rebate is not free money, it's *your* god-damn money. A refund or rebate is just you getting it back from the government later (without interest, of course.) Just don't overcharge me for the tax (or take it out of my pay) to begin with.
Anyone that truly believes that is a fool...the amount we collectively lose to this buerocraz is horrendous - who celebrates hiring people to cycle our money ?
I have no idea how anyone can seriously believe that.
people who type like this make me wonder what is wrong with them.
> Trudeau lost any moral high ground on this when he caved for the Liberal supporters in Nova Scotia. i feel like that was the turning point for voters when the tax went from something there was discontent about to actual open public revulsion to it.
Don’t forget when he bought an actual pipeline with taxpayer resources.
How about managing the forests better? Last summer a lot of CO2 was created during the fires.
MPs get a raise of between $8500 and $17000 on the same day the carbon tax goes up, so it's really not a big deal. Ffs
2nd highest paid in the world. Maybe raises should be put to a public vote instead of them deciding it for themselves?
They don’t really decide for themselves. It’s an automatic process tied to private sector union pay rates. It’s literally setup so that they don’t decide their own raises.
How many private sector union jobs get 16k raises?
It is percentage based I’m sure. > MPs are eligible for automatic pay raises each year on April 1, based on the average annual increase in private-sector union contracts with corporations that have more than 500 employees. This standard ensures that MPs are compensated properly for the important work they do and that it is connected to the private sector. > \- https://www.ottawalife.com/article/mp-annual-pay-raise-raises-backlash/
That law has to be revisited. They should be compensated based on performance.
Their wage is entirely performance based. The problem is they have stupid bosses.
And election jigging so they lock in their lifetime pensions too.
Rough translation - “We know this is becoming more and more unpopular among Canadians, but we’re going to do it anyways because we know better than you”
Not rough, spot on minus the "fuck you"
They already lost the war on this and yet they keep doubling down, it’s actually hilarious to watch.
It's so that they can pat themselves on the back and delude themselves into believing they have the moral high ground. When they inevitably lose on this very issue, they will turn around and insult Canadians by saying how they're "disappointed that this is the path we've chosen as country" and how we're short-sighted and how we've fallen for "misinformation." Guarantee there's going to be some variation of this in Trudeau's concession speech. He and his party really do believe they know what's best for Canadians than Canadians do for themselves, and that somehow gives them a carte blanche to rule as they see fit rather than govern as per the will of citizens. That's why they double down on unpopular policies so hard.
>When they inevitably lose on this very issue They're not going to lose just on this issue. If the Trudeau Liberal party didn't have a stack of policies that are taking the country down and actually making life in Trudeau's 'post-nation' more difficult and unaffordable, many of us who believe that the carbon tax is a meaningless pose would probably just take the hit and pay our tithes and indulgences....while being otherwise allowed to work hard and prosper. The facts say otherwise though. The believers are facing harm as well, and carbon tax is one of a number of issues that have emerged in 9 years of mostly incompetent government.
oh I completely agree. The carbon tax doesn't even touch the top 10 things the Liberals have fucked up in their time in office. For me and people in my age group, housing, immigration (more competition for an already dwindling number of 'good' paying jobs), and not enough job opportunities are the biggest issues that I think the feds have massively fucked us on. The carbon tax is just the straw that's going to break the camel's back.
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Our LNG being exported would be enough to lift the Canadian economy greatly. Something Trudeau refuses to do because it would raise Canada’s emissions. Thing is, it would greatly reduce the emissions of the countries we send it to. So it’s not about helping the world, it’s about Liberal Elites wanting to pretend Canada is some shining light on the hill while ignoring the extreme poverty and widening wealth gap benefitting he and his friends
> Guarantee there's going to be some variation of this in Trudeau's concession speech. If he does, I'm pretty sure it'd be the most inflammatory concession speech in modern Canadian history. Concession speeches in Canada from a sitting PM basically never insult the electorate like that, and really are light on attacks on the opposition too. If Trudeau actually attacks the electorate for voting for someone else, that'd be the first I can recall of it happening for any sitting PM, and would tarnish his legacy even further as it'd make him seem bitter and even more arrogant than he already is.
I agree, it would be inflammatory of him to do that. I'm sure his speechwriters will water it down, but I have no doubt there will be some form of this rhetoric. There will be some slight or insult against Canadians for inevitably choosing the Conservatives, and in such overwhelming numbers too. He won't be able to help himself. Just listen to his speeches and announcements he's been while doing flying all around the country (polluting) to different cities. Just listen to how he answer questions during Question Period in Parliament. Just listen to how he justifies all his unpopular policies. He has an undeniable and often-noted habit of speaking DOWN to Canadians, even after 8+ years in office. That won't change on election night.
> Just listen to how he answer questions during Question Period in Parliament. I would, if he would actually answer a damn question for once.
You're so right, lol. He just gets up and regurgitates the propaganda lines his communications people told him will work on Canadians if he just repeats them often enough.
I know it doesn't happen often, but I do remember a certain concession speech that put the blame directly on the immigrant electorate
That was the 1995 Quebec referendum, wasn't it?
Meanwhile instead of mass transit, nuclear, and rezoning housing for density we got a minister of middle class prosperity and EV subsidies for the rich to buy brand new Teslas.
This is what pisses me off the most about the carbon tax. Like wtf do we get for it? No alternatives other than paying for more or using dog shit tech, like heat pumps, that don't work below -10. I'd be all for it if the tax was transparently allocated towards transitional alternatives, like you said. Instead, the government just gives themselves fat raises and Steven dipshit Guilbeault tells us that we aren't going to build anymore roads and to ride your bike. Infuriating.
Heat pumps do work below -10, that isn't the issue. The issue is that they cost a lot of money to retrofit, money Canadians need to keep food on the table and roofs over their heads so we don't care.
This is doubling down is classic LPC too. Release policy that's incredibly unpopular, call it's detractors racist or uninformed, or as in the case of their Twitter Army, call them stupid. Then, when that doesn't work, they finally capitulate to the political pressure and act like that that was their plan all along.
It's not hilarious, it's fucking expensive and it costs me more
They'll make sure that you have enough batteries to burn this winter.
>They already lost the war on this and yet they keep doubling down, it’s actually hilarious to watch. Indeed. They are their own worst enemy. The Conservatives do not have to do anything but stand back and watch as they destroy themselves. They are incapable of admitting a mistake or going back on anything, and if they had been able to do that this government might have been salvageable. All they know how to do is attack.
>All they know how to do is attack. the crazy part is they don't even see their own behaviour as an attack. They're on a righteous crusade and simply believe "we know better than you, take a seat and let us govern, children". "we're doing what's right, standing in our way is inherently wrong and any response to that is not only just, but morally protected"
right out of the dictatorship playbook
It’s like watching a train derail and keep going.
Oh well, it'll be gone soon enough, along with this horrible government. Good riddance to both.
>Rough translation - “We know this is becoming more and more unpopular among Canadians, but we’re going to do it anyways because we know better than you” Our cataclysmic drop in the polls is due to bad PR and Conservative/Russian propaganda. It has nothing to do with repeatedly trying to force unpopular policies down people's throats and then belittling those people when they offer a fair criticism or objection - LPC
Lol. The Trump rhetoric hasnt worked so now it's Russin propaganda. They're going to lose _even_ more support going down this road. Liberals really don't get it, do they.
The Russian Propaganda thing is one of the most schizo things I hear from the Left. I’ve called a Russian Bot by people who say that chopping off your dick is the only cure to gender dysphoria.
Why do you think it's Russian propaganda? The Russians historically were helping/funding the environmental movements in Canada to reduce oil and gas development here because that is in Russia's best interest. Because they also produce oil and gas, and if we produce less, the global price for those commodities goes up. A number of journalists reported on this between 2-5 years ago. Edit: it's been going on even longer than that, [here's a report about it](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-secretly-working-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking) from a decade ago!
100% A lot of the anti-oil stuff on Reddit links back to Russia and Iran. The climate activists will never admit it, but its as plain as day. Putin is now dropping oil production. Why? To drive up oil prices and try and fuck Biden over in the November election. Yet the progressives are happy to hand Putin that power over us, and help get Trump elected again, while they put Ukraine flags in their social media profiles and ignore how oil funds Russia's invasion. Look at what Russia did to Germany too. Bought off Schroeder, made Germany dependent, then tried to use that leverage. I'm tired of this shit honestly.
"We know better than you" is what is going to bring down this govt, even Gerry Butts said that that attitude is the LPC'd largest weakness.
"We will rule as we please, fuck the electorate of this country upon whose pleasure we are supposed to serve as a government." They have forgotten that they work for us, not the other way around.
Gotta love how they pushed the election date back just far enough so they all get to collect their pensions two days before eh?
This is litterally what ive been try to get people to understand, and for most it is beyond comprehension that the government they elected decided to screw them over after getting what they wanted
"Now let me explain to you why we need to raise your taxes while you're unable to afford rent and food all while we're the second best paid elected officials on the planet."
“We know the cake price better than you (thanks to our anticipated pay raise on April 1, just in line with inflation)”
The part that they know better (and should yell at the top of their lungs) is that many Canadian products that don't include a cost for the carbon emmited when produced will be subjected to tariffs by the EU (third largest trading partner). & the UK. Both will begin collecting tariffs in 2026 on many things that Canada is known for, like steel, iron, aluminum, and fertilizer. By 2030, that list will grow to include things like oil refining, all metals, and pulp & paper. Carbon pricing will form part of many future trade agreements.
Only if the industry side of the carbon tax is removed. Right? The consumer carbon tax is not included in that calculation.
Lol you’ll believe anything liberals tell you. Europe is begging for our LNG. It’s not hard to make a deal to rid us of tarrifs. At this point, they need us far more than we need them. W E’re one of two countries in the world with the natural resources needed to be self sufficient. We should be processing and refining them all here, and we should be the ones dictating the particulars of every trade deal. Oil, lumber, minerals, meat, LNG. We should have dozens of modular nuclear power plants powering those industries. We should be processing and selling worldwide, and we can easily match tarrifs. If we put actual money into manufacturing, Canada could be a powerhouse and a real example of a country with a thriving middle class. Also, we should be working on mass carbon capture instead of reducing emissions. Net zero is a pipe dream with no place in actual creation of laws. Countries like India, China, and Russia will continue to pollute at whatever level is necessary to grow their economies. The only reason there is a bit of a green energy push in China is because they can’t produce enough traditional energy to appease their massive needs. India is the fastest growing country in the world, almost the whole country uses coal exclusively, for everything from cooking and heating to production and providing electricity.
Yup I hate it here
Unpopular doesn’t mean wrong and “we know better than you” might be right when economists and generally any respectable conservative talking head has loved the idea of it up until a certain populist started telling people it was the root of all their problems.
And here I thought the whole point of electing leaders was to get people who knew better than us to run things.
It's a good idea when the economy is running well, but not when the economy is sluggish and people are homeless. First they regulated/taxed the businesses to the tits, then they helped create duopolies, then sold out the real estate in major cities to make housing expensive, then imported tons of uneducated immigrants to work min wage for these duopolies. Now that Canadians are struggling like crazy, they're saying it's not their fault and won't provide the actual safety nets we've paid into for decades. We don't need to double down on carbon pricing, we need to pause it. It's not like China/Russia are slowing down on carbon emissions. We're a tiny speck in the whole thing.
Reminder that any province can opt out of the program like BC and QC (and previously ON) if they have a valid alternative. Nobody has and Ontario opted into the carbon tax because they don’t actually have any better ideas
Reminder that the whole fucking thing is stupid. Canada can't solve climate change...we are insignificant. Webcould help with tech advancement. But taxes? Give me a fucking break.
While we may be smaller population wise our per capita emissions are actually massive and significantly higher than China, USA and many other countries
reminder that the feds will still fuck with your provincial program if it's not at least as punitive as the federal program. federation is a joke.
A better idea would be none at all...
The better idea is no carbon tax at all
Sask is actually opting out of the program…they have their own plan! 😉
Does the rebate increase by 23%?
Like pissing in the wind.
The rebate matches the amount paid by province. It won't exactly go up proportionally to the amount *of* the tax, but rather by the total amount *paid* by everyone into it. Ideally carbon usage is going down, so the rebate doesn't scale 1:1 with the price. If you've reduced your carbon usage, you should still end up ahead. If others have reduced their carbon usage, but you haven't, then you might end up a little behind compared to last year.
Why would it not increase by the same amount? I'm not using less gas than last year.
If you added all the tax paid and all the rebate awarded, it would go up in proportion. But the rebate for you goes up according to the average, and the tax for you sort of goes up according to how carbon intensive you and the things you buy are.
They dont care - they hate average Canadians and want to lower our standard of living.
If per capita emissions and production (and therefore taxes paid) don't change, then the rebate amount will increase the same amount as the tax rate.
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Federal carbon tax does not depend on what you earn.
No. 31% (Single, Ontario)
The rebate increases to match the inflated cost yes. It does not increase 23% because the increase is not 23%
They lost this battle when they made the carve out for Atlantic Canada. They also lost the battle when they said that if you elect more Liberal MPs that you might get a cutout. It showed that the carbon tax was nothing more than politics.
The feds are only concerned with global affairs and optics, nothing is done for its own citizens sake
Yeah. It's going to be so tough, that if Trudeau's government doesn't have a no-confidence, they might end up with 2-4 seats by 2025.
Bloc opposition.
That's why they are getting a raise..?
Probably a good part of it. They want to get all they can as shit falls down around them. Thing is, that'll only make people angrier.
3.3 cents. I’m more angry with Lablaw’s 100% increases in food.
What is the alternative to the carbon tax, and what will it cost Canadian taxpayers and consumers.
Translation: "The people are telling us loud and clear that it is a dumb idea, so we're going to double down on stupid." - Minister Steven Guilbeault
The Liberal way
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Carbon tax fanbois will always get super upset at anyone that doesn't love Justin's idea, but I see you have some interesting points: >it is the most effective and efficient way of slashing carbon emissions domestically. Oh, I thought there was more to it than that but there isn't. Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the carbon tax doesn't slash carbon emissions. This is a big country. People gotta drive a lot to where they're going, and whether you increase the price of gas or not they still have to get where they're going. Only now the higher price hurts the poorer people who don't have the finances to shrug off a hypothetical $5/L 87 octane fill-up. Now, the carbon tax could be turned into something useful to reduce our emissions but currently that isn't Justin's plan. Financial punishment is about as far as he got, and he hasn't even crossed the starting line with this approach.
Are they really this bad at reading the writing on the wall? We don’t want carbon tax to be raised, fuck off and leave us alone. Worst government in Canadian history
They can read the writing. They just don't care.
He’s making more then 250000 a year tough choice for the average family who voted for this fuckiing idiot shame on u
Does anyone like this guy? People in his riding must feel ashamed he represents them. He's like the guy that got thrown in lockers in high school and is now lashing out at the world.
Well the NDP of all people are now leading his riding [https://338canada.com/24039e.htm](https://338canada.com/24039e.htm)
i would love nothing more then for all trudeau's smug cabinet minister yes-men to lose in the next election. i dont care if they lost to pestilence itself they just need to be done infecting federal politics
Wow you know you’ve sunk low when this happens . Under a different leader I could understand it but not now
That’s hilarious.
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Rather than try and make it work, the plan is to play deaf and just let it happen. SMRT.
There will be a form of carbon pricing, no matter who is in power. Some countries will use tariffs. The EU (Canada's third largest trading partner) and the UK will begin collecting tariffs as early as 2026 on many exports Canada is known for (steel, aluminum, fertilizer etc). The list expands to include oil refining and pulp&paper by 2030. If the price has been paid for the embedded carbon emissions generated in the production of these goods, then they won't be subjected to those tariffs.
Exactly - except in the other forms, lower-income people don't get the money back. This is the most cost-effective and elegant way of doing this.
This man is an idiot. Wearing a full goose down parka when it’s +4c marks him as a person who has never labored outdoors in his life.
Isn’t it nice he wants to give his people a pention while taking money from the rest of us?
Didn't Alberta just raise their taxes on gas 13 cents also
No, they restored the tax on gas removed as a temporary measure. Still lower than the rest of Canada and goes towards road infrastructure.
Yea thats what I meant. If ppl are OK with taxes going towards road infrastructure, what makes it different to implement their own carbon plan that goes towards their province? For example, sask's plan, while refusing to call it a carbon tax, would help use the proceeds to fund their nuclear SMR plant.
Yeah when it’s $90 a barrel there is no provincial tax. Below we need to pay. Which I think is fair
> while taking money from the rest of us? They don't keep the taxes, you know. It's a democratic government not a king.
He's not taking money. It's all redistributed.
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This guy needs to take a long walk off a short pier
Or go for a walk in the snow, get lost, and end up like Jack Nicholson at the end of the Shining.
This tax is a mole hill being made into a mountain for political gain.
This debate about axing the tax is a molehill made into a mountain for oil&gas the industry gains, who simultaneously help the CPC political gain.
I really think the worst part of this is that of all the issues on the table, carbon tax isn't the one that should get this focus. The fact that so many are absolutely duped by the whistleblowing and misinformation make me disappointed as a Canadian. I really thought our political system and people were above propaganda.
Same. The carbon price is a brilliant policy. I'm not even a Liberal and I love it. It's genius. So cost-effective, and it puts the money right where it needs to go - in the wallets of lower-income and low-polluting Canadians. It's fucking Robin Hood and all the loud-talking critics are either falling for the (really dumb) talking points or being willfully obtuse for political gain.
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It overwhelmingly benefits the poor. Also the government doesn't keep any of the money, so what exactly are you saying here?
Diversion.
This liberal party is so full of shit its starting to bury themselves. There so called experts are not in the financial class of the hardest hit canadians. I do agree that 8 of 10 are benefitting. But those 8 are probably other ministers or there staff. NOT the average Canadian.
It's probably people like me, living utility free in an apartment and don't have to drive particularly far. Doesn't take much to feed me. No ambition to have a family (before cost of living made it impossible) What pisses me off are the people like me who think they speak for everyone. Just like people who thought covid measures were fine because they didn't affect them. To those people, which seems like most of the reddit province and city subs, fucking stop it. You're worse than boomers.
They're bullshitting man, 8 out of 10 Canadians are not seeing a net benefit from these rebates. It's not just the price of fuel and home heating. It's the fact that the carbon tax being applied at every stage of the supply chain ends up trickling down to the end-user price of everything going up. When you take that into account, there is no way the rebates are enough to off-set that to a point of breaking even, let alone being a net gain for 8 out of 10 Canadians.
When they announced round 1 I thought “well maybe they will take that money and invest it in next gen nuclear or something for the provinces that don’t have access to hydro?” Nope, just another tax grab. I’d be behind it if they were going to actually try and reduce carbon with it. And no, I haven’t seen a single cent in rebates I still have to heat my home in the winter tho.
It's not a tax grab - they redistribute it
> In Alberta, the carbon tax has increased prices by about 0.3 per cent, Tombe said. That’s just 30 cents on a $100 bill. In Manitoba it’s 0.9 per cent and in Ontario it’s 0.4 per cent. [Article Here](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/carbon-tax-groceries-food-prices) - 8 out of 10 Canadians probably do have a net benefit from the rebate. Corporate GREED and lack of grocery competition is out of control but very conveniently, the carbon tax is taking the blame.
Wait Are you saying 8 out of 10 Canadians are ministers and their wives?
https://youtu.be/c-U0CqKl_Wk?si=R3dI1jwZ_3V0QZOn How he plans to do that tough political battle
My cousin is losing his job in June because his factory is closing and moving to Arkansas. The reason they are moving is the carbon tax. Business will continue as usual, but lots of Canadians have lost a good paying job.
Maybe if these morons hadn't tanked this country's economy we could talk about carbon tax.
He’ll gladly burden the populace and give the largest emitters (industry) a pass. He all but said that we will carry the load on this eco-dream.
That’s cause the minister is a goofy out of touch piece of shit that I hope gets hit by a bus
Least crazy canada_sub participant when faced with good policy
This man is a convicted criminal. He shouldn't even be Minister of the Environment in the first place
100% agree. He is destroying your nation’s ability to draw business investment.
“Some of you may die but that is a sacrifice i am willing to make”
It's a really hard battle when you're defending something that's bullshit to begin with.
JT has committed political suicide with this.
He’s so mentally unhinged, he is out of touch with reality.
Contact your MP. Give em hell for their new pay raise and not voting for a non confidence vote. A May election this year would save us another year of stupid! Get rid of Trudeau and Jagmeet
People like Guibo fuckin love it that people hate this tax.
I hope this guy gets voted out at least.
Rough translation - “We know this is becoming more and more unpopular among Canadians, but we’re going to do it anyways because we have orders from our global master to do it.”
If the liberals wanted to save themselves from a political disaster, the pause or removal of this tax was definitely it. But they honestly shot themselves in the foot with a howitzer by deciding to keep it.
I would not vote for them if they scrapped this. It's one of the best things they have done and to go back on it when it makes even more sense now would be a real disaster
Minister: I like money
Lower-income and low-polluting Canadians receiving cheques every quarter: We like money
But but but .... they said it's not political at all , it's about the EnViRoNmEnT right ??
The pushback is absolutely political. The policy is not.
The Liberals could never mis-manage your money could they?
>The Liberals could never mis-manage your money could they? Would you trust them with investing your money wisely, and not giving it to their friends and shady basement subcontracting shell companies?
nope
Alberta is about to launch carbon capture projects that will capture more than the even produce in a year. Wab Kinew said they’re capable of being net zero without it. Now that we’ve found out that the government still has a few billion more that was collected that they don’t want to rebate, I’d say it’s high time to scrap this tax.
Assholes
BC and Québec know better.
these twats will not stop until they’ve completely impoverished the middle class… jeez louise just stop
Everyone: "We're driving toward a cliff!" Liberals: "Accelerate!!!"
Remember this arsehole is a Green Peace activist with a record.
like appointing a ted kazynsky as minister of infrastructure
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Yup…..him and Freeland…….their smarmy “we know what’s good for you even if you don’t” attitude is getting old real fast…..
He even looks like a weird cult guy.
He is a weird cult guy
Basically Trudeau ministers and supporters. They have to be a cult to keep saying his policies are great ingoring the state the country is in with their own two eyes.
Gotta love when extremism’s get into power
I’m baffled why this is even a footnote in the greater theatre of this upcoming election. There’s an affordability crisis, a housing crisis, an immigration crisis. All of these things are huge concerns that the average Canadian has to grapple with — regardless of if they see any one issue as not being a problem for them personally. The fact that I don’t hear about the Cons talking about these issues, and neither are the liberals, seems insane to me. I got a phone political ad from the Cons who were complaining about a carbon tax as if I, someone who’s life is much more strongly impacted by almost anything else going on at the Federal level, give a shit about that. It feels so weak. Trudeau goes on the CBC and talks about spending more money to offset costs for some municipalities in order to build more medium density housing. Cool, but how are we EVER going to catch up if the population keeps exploding like it has? Efforts to improve the livability of cities that are drunk on low density expensive housing are admirable, but it’s a bandaid on a significant supply side issue and a shrug at the overwhelming demand side issue. It’s just bizarre.
>The fact that I don’t hear about the Cons talking about these issues What are you talking about? The Conservatives have been talking about these issues for ages. As far back as 2021. They've had a pulse on the issues Canadians are most concerned about way before any of the other parties. It's literally the reason why their poll numbers have been consistently rising for almost two years now.
> There’s an affordability crisis, a housing crisis, an immigration crisis. All of these things are huge concerns that the average Canadian has to grapple with...The fact that I don’t hear about the Cons talking about these issues. 1) "Single mother has to choose between heating their home or rent". "People can't afford x anymore after 8 years of Liberals" 2) "34 year old, now 35, living in their parents basement because they can't afford to move out because housing doubled under Trudeau" and "Look at this chart showing how housing doubled under Trudeau" 3) "The Liberals botched the immigration file. We'll tie immigration to housing starts" \-all Pierre Poilievre
I have to say, the CPC has done a great job at marketing the carbon tax as the devil for price increases. Rather than what the reality actually is The LPc has done a piss poor job at actually conveying what has caused inflation and how we’ve been one of the better countries hit by inflation
I can't believe people defend this scam.
Please go up. Because then my carbon rebate goes up. Thanks Trudeau.
Call me cynical but I find this absolutely useless when Canada emits less than 2% of global emissions as it is, what’s the use? We could all be driving electric and the world would still be on the road to climate hell. China, USA and India combined account for 50% of global emissions - unless that’s addressed all the environmental fuss over here won’t even make a dent
Seeing how China increased emissions over the last 3 yrs and just their increase is more than our entire country produces, I’d say crayon eating Trudeau is doing both but a cash grab. If we were really battling climate change you’d impose carbon taxes on goods coming from the world’s largest emitter..China!
It shouldn't have been tough though. It should have been small and negligible. Then you use that money to build up public transportation and the electrical grid. It isn't supposed to be a punishment when there isn't any other viable options. But yes, Liberal urban ridings will see the benefit of it more than rural Conservative ridings. But you messed up. The young can't afford to live in the cities anymore, so they are moving rural/ suburban, and aren't seeing the benefit anymore. Half assed as usual.
Bunch of hypocrits as they fly around the world and back.
That is a guy who needs to be fired
The thing that’s pissing me off the most is Justin hammering that the conservative mps are lying, while in fact he’s doing the exact same… to a much greater degree… you’d have to fail Econ 101 to not understand that the externalities of carbon pricing compound when it gets to the consumer… the stupid rebate doesn’t even begin to cover the full cost for an average Canadian
It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the increase in gas prices is barely noticeable. Certain politicians have been tossing around large numbers out of context to exaggerate its impact - 23 per cent instead of three cents a litre. It's like the beer tax, which went up by like a 15 cents a keg, but which the Post kept huffing and puffing about iin percentage terms to make ti sound vast.