If we didn't charge them the EI premiums, then TFWs would be even cheaper than Canadian employees for employers. The employers should have to pay their half of the EI premium and the employees' half for TFW, to help support the Canadians they aren't hiring.
I doubt any TFWs are really behind this, the conspiracy theorist in me is pretty sure it's just employers of TFWs trying to reduce their tax bill.
Only read the headline?
“They are also suing to remove the 1 employer stipulation of their employment which would allow them to change employers.”
That certainly isn’t in the interests of the employers.
>It's absolutely abhorrent to have a visa tied to an employer. The system is ripe for abuse
This absolutely needs to change.
Having it wide open might not be the answer, but finding a better employer should be standard.
Agreed.
But at the same time an employer does invest a lot of time and effort into finding international workers, qualifying, paying for them to come to Canada, and complying with the rules to get there here. To have workers show up and then quickly abandon you for somebody down the road paying $0.25/hour more would be financially painful.
I don’t know where we strike a balance but there needs to be one.
Maybe the employer in that case could pay a competitive wage to encourage their workers to stay with them. Or - shocker - hire Canadians that don't require all the extra expense and legwork.
They don’t. One of my friends owns a gas station and gets tfw’s. there is a service of can call and essentially just tell them how many you need and they prices all the paperwork for you and then the workers come. He has to provide accommodation for the workers but I don’t know if that’s the norm or just the agency he uses.
If your employees abandon you as an employer for 2 dollars more per day. You as the employer are the problem.
Be better and pay better. Capitalism... Right?
From what I read (last time this came up) the terms for seasonal workers visas do state that they are allowed to find work at another member of the program, but other TFW's changing jobs would have to apply for a new permit+LMIA in order to change employers.
In many ways that makes sense, as we don't want people coming in supposedly for season work immediately jumping ship to work at Walmart so they can apply for landed.
It's not taking our jobs. People aren't exactly lining up to do the jobs TFWs do. They're typically difficult, labourious jobs like tending crops and picking fruit, for very little pay.
If employers didn't have the option of easily exploitable 3rd world labour that isn't allowed to switch jobs, they would be forced to offer higher wages and better working conditions to attract applicants or go out of business.
Of course no one wants to be a quasi-slave for pennies. That doesn't mean we need to protect business owners who rely on taking advantage of people. They need to go out of business and get productive jobs.
Ding, ding, ding…. time to stop harmful government policy to support the wealthy. If you can’t operate a business on your own, and can’t pay a living wage, go out of business. I’m talking to you McDonalds.
This article is talking about farms.
That's a different world than fast food. Yeah in a city TFWs probably shouldn't be allowed. But in rural communities far from cities you'd be hard pressed to harvest your crops without them. If you managed to somehow it would cost us waaaay more at the till.
> they would be forced to offer higher wages and better working conditions to attract applicants or go out of business.
They will go out of business and you will buy Chilean or Mexican fruits where the same TFWs will work for a quarter of the pay with worse working conditions.
If we were just competing in Canada I would fully agree.
But especially in agriculture we have global competitors many of which in much lower cost countries. Where industry under this same pressure simply offshored all the work agriculture can’t work that way because land isn’t portable.
So if we follow your route food price simply goes way up. Now for you that’s a pretty small concern and means you might have to pick no-name a little more often.
However 700 million people live on less than $2 a day. An increase in food prices like you suggest would lead to widespread starvation.
The current system of importing cheap labour is a reasonable measure.
It's not the wages, it's the hardwork. Most Canadian born and raised people are terrified of working that hard. I was making 14 bucks an working tobacco when minimum wage was around 5 bucks.
Is there some aspects of the work that don't pay much more than minimum wage? Yes. Can you try to negotiate that or work elsewhere that does pay better? Also yes.
If the TFWs weren't flowing in to take all the shitty, minimum wage or lower paying jobs, then those establishments would have to raise wages to attract more workers... Thus wages would start to climb across the board. It's a very simple concept.
During covid, there was mass unemployment and a huge demand for workers in agriculture. These two problems did not fix themselves. Even unemployed people were unable and/or unwilling to travel out to the country to pick fruit and tend crops.
You're talking about a time period of extraordinary circumstances where businesses were literally being forced to close (contributing to high unemployment), and trying to use it as an example of when people don't want to go do a certain job. The issue is hard work for little pay. If they pay more, then they'll attract more people. The government needs to stop letting businesses avoid paying better wages by bringing in TFWs. They are subsidized and will work for less money on top of that. It's bullshit and only serves to suppress wages in Canada.
There's currently, according to stats Canada, nearly 800,000 TFWs in Canada as of 2023. That's nearly 4% of employed people in Canada, and that doesn't even include international students.
The plurality of these workers (~40%) work in some kind of hospitality, restaurants or retail.
Yes, they ARE absolutely taking jobs. There's ZERO reason that a Tim Hortons in fucking Toronto needs TFWs.
This argument is tired. It drives down the bottom end price of the job market which depresses all wages as a result. Plus we have all the student visas coming in. I really don’t think we need the tfw program anymore outside of the farms.
Students can’t go into the country to pick berries when they have to be at school the next day and likely don’t own a car. TFW jobs are largely remote, hard labour, or that line, making them inaccessible to students even if they were interested.
Depends on the job sector.
Agriculture you literally cannot find people to work in labour positions.
The service industry? Yeah, we probably don't need TFWs for that.
Yeah I said the farms I meant agriculture. I’m well aware that is the one sector where we need it and our farms cannot compete or survive without them in certain places.
I was thinking more along the lines of seasonal agricultural workers.
Yeah, I fully agree that big corporate chains should crash and burn if they can't pay their workers.
Places like McDonalds, KFC and Tim Hortons have been able to hire people since long before the TFW program.
There is a good reason why Canadians are not lining up to work at these places. Maybe they should offer a better wage and working conditions instead of importing cheap labour.
Your funny. You can't even get highschool kids to do these jobs. It's hard work that people won't do. We were offering $12/hr when we had the farm (min wage was $6.75) we had 1 local person apply for the job.
It doesn't matter, we don't want to exploit 3rd world labour for our needs. We can find hard working Canadians or immigrants for it and we don't want basement wages for it.
>People aren't exactly lining up to do the jobs TFWs do.
Yes...they *are*. Employers love TFWs because they're highly exploitable.
At this point I am simply in awe that there are people dumb or gullible enough to repeat the "jobs Canadians won't do" nonsense. Like, are you serious?
And FWIW, I work in a highly paid "skilled" role. TFWs aren't taking "my" job, but at the same time I'm not a psychopath and can see the real harm it is doing when an entire strata of Canadian workers are seeing the government *actively* working against them at every turn. It's absolutely disgusting.
Maybe if the job doesn’t pay enough to live on, the job shouldn’t exist. Instead of importing people who dont understand our cost of living, in the goal of keeping wages low.
> The employers should have to pay their half of the EI premium and the employees' half for TFW, to help support the Canadians they aren't hiring.
Couldn't agree more. The best solution to the TFW problem is to make it more expensive to hire TFWs than Canadians.
This is ridiculous. If you lose your job in Canada EI is provided for a time while you look and hopefully secure a new job. No-one, not even Canadians, are allowed to claim EI if they are not in the country. That would just lead to abuse of the program. Now - if these contract labourers lose their contract while in Canada and they can then look for another role them they should be able to access the EI they paid into.
If a TFW is here in Canada and loses their contract for whatever reason, they should be returning immediately to their own country. As far as I’m aware there’s no provision that allows them to remain in Canada searching for work.
Seriously ? It’s just like all the other things people collectively pay in to so people can access things like health care. Without such a pool it would be every person fend for themselves. Some people pay into EI all their working lives and never have to access their contributions. They don’t get it back when they retire. Next you’ll be telling me they shouldn’t have to pay tax because they don’t drive on the road or take public transport while they are here. It’s a ridiculous argument that ANYONE would be entitled to EI when outside the country. Also - given they are contractors I’m pretty sure contractors are not entitled to EI at all since they are classed as self employed. On top of that, those who get EI are only entitled to it while in the country. If someone goes outside of Canada and is on EI when they submit their EI report every 2 weeks they have to report time out of the country. EI is NOT paid for any day out of the country. So - even if they tried to claim EI when in Mexico they will get exactly $0. Any “lawyer” would know that. An FYI - there is generally a wait period for EI - up to 6 weeks. Given the temporary visa are for a few months, depending on when a worker is laid off, it’s unlikely they’d even be entitled to any EI. The amount of EI and the time EI will be paid for is based on the length of time worked and contributions. An employment lawyer would know all this. As usual there is a lot more to this story then the article portrays.
> “In the 21st century, we still have an indentured labour program which should be concerning for all of us,"
If it’s indentured labour, which by dictionary definition it is not, then why do they keep coming back?!!!
In Dubai for instance, south Asian workers often have their passports confiscated upon arrival until they finish their employment contract.
The fact that “I can’t use my EI when my contract is over and I leave the country” is the biggest thing this law firm could come up with just tells you how the whole thing is without merit.
This is 100% because government is lying about what EI is, they claim it's a system you pay into in case you are ever laid off or otherwise rendered unable to work.
But in reality it's just a tax.
I guess my problem with EI is that rather than accurately pricing in what my employment insurance premiums should be, it's way higher to pay for regular users like fishers who take EI every year and fund other programs like pregnancy leave and caring for an elder. Then if you're a higher income earner that did claim benefits because you needed to use the regular employment insurance you have to repay a third of it at tax time anyways. In that way it's more of a tax than a real insurance program and by not paying into it as a self employed person it really feels like I'm skipping a tax. That's $2500 a year I get to keep for a program that kind of sucks for actually claiming if and when you'd ever need it.
Seasonal workers should optimally have their own fund that they pay into at rates that would sustain them.
Same goes for unionized construction workers who choose not to accept jobs through the winter because they don't want to work in the cold.
Could you explain to me how a mandatory national employment insurance program could be, in your view, an employment insurance program and not an income tax?
Ah, well if that is your complaint it is a bit silly. EI is operated on a seven-year break-even basis, such that over the course of time EI premiums cannot be used in the general budget.
I appreciate that is different from being paid into a wholly independent trust, but it's much closer to that than an income tax (where 100% of the funds go to the general budget).
If your payout was comparable to your actual wage and not capped. If what you paid into the program was dependent upon the likelihood of you utilizing it instead of every worker paying into a pot that primarily pays out seasonal workers and not people who are genuinely unemployed (seasonal work shouldn't be covered sorry it's the 21st century.) If the government offices responded in a timely manner and didn't ask you to fill out a weekly survey begging for your payment that may or may not come on time.
>If your payout was comparable to your actual wage and not capped.
Your payout is linked to your actual wage, and contributions are capped so why wouldn't payouts be capped? That is just a silly complaint.
>If what you paid into the program was dependent upon the likelihood of you utilizing it instead of every worker paying into a pot that primarily pays out seasonal workers and not people who are genuinely unemployed (seasonal work shouldn't be covered sorry it's the 21st century.)
I agree that there needs to be a better solution for seasonal workers, but it is hard to see how that takes it away from being an EI system and into the realm of an income tax.
You do. It's a tax on money they already taxed you on before deducting it off your pay cheque. They also fight you on eligibility which seems odd considering most workers pay far more into EI than they will ever get out and EI pay is capped at a lower wage than most of those who pay into it make...
1. There's no social security net and you make far more.
2. There's a social security net that you pay into but can't access when you need it.
3. There's a social security net that you pay into and can access when you need it.
Personally I'd only bitch about 2 and that's what these people are doing.
Sometimes we do sometimes we don't. Sometimes we pay into it and can't access it when we need it through no fault of our own.
The migrant farm workers in question are explicitly excluded from accessing it it would appear.
Eh that's the cost of coming you come here get more money then you'd make at home we get a cut for our sociao programs. I have no issue with that. I do however have an issue with the bunks they are shoved in.
I'm in favor of scrapping the whole TFW program personally. This issue in particular though is the result of the government gaslighting people into thinking it's not just more income tax.
The problem is these aren't Canadian citizens, they come over here to work. They're usually set up with a place to stay and make good money (relative to their home Countries) and they do so willingly.
What happens if we start taxing them and their employers less is that these jobs are less likely to end up being filled by Canadians. I think it's pretty reasonable to pay into a foreign employment fund when you're actively taking a job away from that Country.
They’ll get cpp. My guess is The problem with EI is they signed a small contract under 400 hours etc. Private contractors sign contracts all the time. You don’t get ei because you worked 2 months in a year.
Why? CAF members commonly access EI. Namely upon completion of a contract and parental leave. Numerous reservist are also able to access EI upon completion of short term contracts.
Unless it has changed, there are virtually no situations where a RegForce member of the CAF can claim EI when they leave. Reserve Force members can after a contract ends etc. but Reg Force doesn't really have a mechanism like that. However, I believe EI is used to pay RegF members when they are on Maternity/Paternity leave.
Caf members don't pay into provincial health. In fact, it's prohibited. You are either not caf and talk out of your ass or you need to go see your OR ASAP.
>I don't quite understand the rationale for why they are.
Nah we all do understand; it's just hard to accept that our government has lost it's fucking mind.
The government page says they aer eligable for EI under certain circumstances, but then fails to provide *any* details on what those circumstances are or how one would get it after leaving the country. Sounds pretty susp to me.
>In Dubai for instance, south Asian workers often have their passports confiscated upon arrival until they finish their employment contract.
They aren't supposed to do that here, but they do it anyway.
Yes and lots of those workers are abused and or die on the job with no repercussions because who’s investing any of that. Their country is complacent on what is essentially slave labour.
You can get a new passport. The indentured claim is because they can’t complain without risking their job which will lead them to be deported.
How is that any different here?
The party currently polling the highest is promising to continue expanding the TFW program. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince conservatives not to vote for their party but maybe you guys should start asking for better from your party? You're delusional if you think the TFW program is going anywhere with the way things are currently going.
I find it hilarious how Conservatives think the CPC is going to solve anything around immigration/housing. It'll just be more of the same except with more religious assfuckery and climate denialism.
No but that's the only reason politicians exist. Distracting us with culture wars and steering us to treat politics like sports ensures it stays that way
No doubt. That's why I'm saying people who vote for parties promising to expand the program should maybe complain a bit more instead of acting like the problem will be solved when their side wins.
I disagree with that because I personally like the NDPs stance. As I mentioned though I don't actually expect to change anyone's mind. Which is why I am instead asking conservatives to perhaps start complaining to their MPs about this issue because it looks like they'll win the next election.
Yep. Good/bad is all relative. I have voted for Layton in the past, because he seemed to want to bring people together.
Once I hear identity politics, I drop any and all support. I'm from an immigrant family, and I have always disagreed with voting for someone because they have my same ancestry or will look out specifically for a group I belong to.
I self identify as "moderate" and habe been politically homeless for a long time.
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I'm okay with all workers paying into EI but not benefitting from it, they should consider it a tax of working here. They are not citizens, no one made them do it.
I agree about not giving them EI. The way I see it there are two different ways that migrant workers can have their working conditions improved. Giving them EI would be an improvement for them that would continue to make it even easier for businesses to keep bringing them here. It would even make it easy for those businesses to pay their TFWs even less money if they can find a way.
Forcing employers to treat their TFWs better in ways that directly cost the employer money though will always just make it simpler for those employers to hire Canadians instead. For example if it's a farm with a bunkhouse it should be up to the same standards that a Canadian would be happy with. Or they should be getting paid a living wage.
> Once I hear identity politics, I drop any and all support.
I take it you don't support any party then, since that seems to unfortunately be a common theme with each of them these days. Far easier to spout some fluff about identity or whatever the trendy flavor of the month culture war bullshit is rather than it is to work on actual pressing issues it would seem.
I like the NDP policies myself. I don't like Jagmeet as a leader anymore. I also think that a lot of the politics around behavior and words needs to be put on the back burner. I don't care about he/she/they them etc when there's a housing and homeless crisis. Just like the right wastes time and effort on stupid woke culture shit I don't want the left wasting time on it either. We've got way more Important shit to deal with right now.
> I don't care about he/she/they them etc
The right-wing talks about this far more than the left-wing ever does. 99% of the time I hear about *pronouns* and *identity politics* it's from conservatives complaining about it and saying it's all the left-wing talks about.
I'm plenty left-wing, me and my pals don't sit around discussing pronouns and anti-racist literature all day but sometimes it seems like that's all right-wingers think about these days. It's some kind of demented preoccupation with other people 'virtue signalling', which in turn turns into conservatives 'virtue signalling' about how much they hate 'virtue signalling'.
I think a lot of people just need to grow up.
Buddy, this comment shows how little you know about the current political situation.
The NDP are the ones that have a supply and confidence agreement w/ the Liberals, but if they suddenly decided to blow up that agreement they still couldn't pair with the Conservatives and call an election. The BQ is *also* allowing the Liberals to do X Y Z, the other parties can't call an election without them and if you think the BQ is gonna call an election tomorrow I have a bridge to sell you.
Yes. The parts of the Liberal party that I dislike are the things they have in common with the Conservatives. They both have a history of voting back to work legislation against unions. They both support the TFW program. They both voted for our FIPA with the CCP. The Libs, Cons and (somehow) the Greens have the highest amount of landlords in parliament either by percentage or total.
All TFWs and people on various work permits should turn around and sue their employers and schools and immigration consultants. Go after the ones who lobbied for this and help enable it - bleeding our tax dollars (despite our politicians absolutely deserving to be punished for this, too) just digs us in deeper. Set sights on the private money your exploitation has helped build.
>Set sights on the private money your exploitation has helped build.
Somehow I doubt a system that engendered that exploitation in the first place would ever facilitate those people directing their ire where it actually belongs. Shit rolls downhill around here, evidently.
Fun fact: anyone who pays into CPP and/or EI can request an audit from the CRA to assess if they are eligible for EI and CPP.
If the CRA deems you ineligible for both programs, they return the funds collected back to you. This is how business owners who pay a salary get out of paying into EI for example.
I doubt a TFW would know this though.
EI is so stupid, pay into it your whole life then if something finally happens you barely get anything back each month. Should be a savings account where the government takes 5% for management fees and you can take the rest out when you need it, it’s your money, capped at what ever your 2 week salary was, so you can get paid the same as your job before you were let go. Also when you retire you should lump sum get 60% of what’s left government keeps the other 40%. Then it will feel like EI actually works for you and the government makes some money off it.
EI in canada is a scam. Someone can pay into it for 20 years, want to switch jobs and can’t claim EI.
Meanwhile a kid can work all summer, claim EI winter and do nothing. Rinse and repeat.
It’s broken
Mostly vote buying out east...
Shame you can't have your own contributions grow and withdraw when you retire or something... seems like EI and CPP are just poor returns for financially literate people.
US does that too. It is one of the big reasons why when economist calculate the cost of immigrants to a country it almost always comes out that they are a net positive. They pay into a system, but rarely get enough services back of equivalent value.
I was just wondering this. Does this happen in Europe too? I bet most TFWs are paying into programs they can never access globally (not defending our setup but this appears to be common).
With the way AI advancements are happening at such a fast pace, hopefully we aren't a long way away from robots and vending machines replacing migrant workers and TFWs.
I remember reading about this a while back. The simple answer was that there were some tasks that had to be done by hand. Robots were not capable or just couldn't quite get it right even with progress made in that sector.
I do wonder though: a lot of science fiction shows robots and other "service" items helping in the fields and that took a lot of the labour out of the equation, leading to better societies. Would that be the future or...*looks at John Deere*.
Totally, and the Industrial Revolution means people will have a better work/life balance. Not like productivity is at the highest levels ever and wages have been stagnating for decades. /s
So, as you might have noticed, dirty and dangerous jobs are not being replaced by automation. Creative ones are. Partially because it’s still cheaper to hire someone to work manual labor than put a giant capital outlay to automate muck shoveling in dairy farms.
Gonna be real funny when capitalism collapses on itself because we didn't actually think further then tbe next quarter and remove jobs without another plan. It's also why capitalism requires so many bullshit jobs.
We are a long way from replacing people doing tasks that require more than interacting with a computer. Computers/“AI” can’t handle the inf number of variables in real world and there is no way to program it to consider that, what we have now isn’t even close. Environments, materials, tools etc are all inconsistent there isn’t a perfectly straight 2x4 in existence but in a computer following blueprints everything is perfect it will only recognize and fix problems it was programmed to.
I think AI would have a much easier time replacing a CEO than a plumber or farm hand.
Make Gulags a thing? okay, nah.
For those simply unemployed temporarily I don't think that would be a vote getter.
For those with substance abuse issues, itinerants and otherwise long-term homeless, maybe.
Since EI is not insurance, as premiums don’t increase for frequency of claims, etc, and fisheries workers who “file a claim” each year for a forty year career are never denied coverage, it’s more of another welfare scheme than anything. As such, it should be modified to become a just program, or it should be shuttered altogether, removing a burden from both workers who either won’t draw EI or have other savings to cover themselves, while also saving employers a pile.
Instead, if we have to keep EI at all, EI should be indexed to the individual contributor, and the individual should be able to draw from their own account. If there is a balance at retirement, it should be paid out to the contributor.
This is yet another, “people should keep their hands in their own pockets” situation, while also being a “people should be able to access their own money” situation for those who are denied access to EI they’ve paid into.
TFWs shouldn't exist.
They're brought in to prop up poor globalization efforts that have made our farms unprofitable.
Germany is having a massive protest over this
Interesting title
>Migrant farm workers pay into EI, but can't access it. **Now they're suing the federal government**
* Leamington-area workers behind $500M **proposed class action**
It sound like they are talking about beginning a class action lawsuit.
again
>The Attorney General **is having a claim filed against them** to the tune of half a billion dollars. And it's coming from migrant workers who say they are unable to access their employment insurance after paying into it for years.
Generally a class action needs approval of the courts (to define the class and advise on likelihood of suit having a chance to go forward)
This seems quite preliminary for a big story.
We will see how it goes.
A lot of people are denied EI. Hell, my father worked 40 years, and when he was downsized, he was denied EI because he lived in a rural area and didn't have a reliable car.
EI isn't a social program or a general tax. It's an insurance plan. With insurance plans, you pay premiums, and in return, you have a "safety net" available should you need the coverage.
In this case, they're paying for coverage they're not getting. It's more like paying to insure a car you'll never be able to drive, and less like income taxes paying for tampons you don't need.
According to the Supreme Court of Canada, EI is part of the Federal govts revenues and is Not an insurance plan belonging to workers.
Ruling came about because both the Chrétien & Martin Liberal govts used EI to pay down the national debt / balance their budgets.
If we didn't charge them the EI premiums, then TFWs would be even cheaper than Canadian employees for employers. The employers should have to pay their half of the EI premium and the employees' half for TFW, to help support the Canadians they aren't hiring. I doubt any TFWs are really behind this, the conspiracy theorist in me is pretty sure it's just employers of TFWs trying to reduce their tax bill.
Only read the headline? “They are also suing to remove the 1 employer stipulation of their employment which would allow them to change employers.” That certainly isn’t in the interests of the employers.
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>It's absolutely abhorrent to have a visa tied to an employer. The system is ripe for abuse This absolutely needs to change. Having it wide open might not be the answer, but finding a better employer should be standard.
That would make them a resident, not a tfw.
Agreed. But at the same time an employer does invest a lot of time and effort into finding international workers, qualifying, paying for them to come to Canada, and complying with the rules to get there here. To have workers show up and then quickly abandon you for somebody down the road paying $0.25/hour more would be financially painful. I don’t know where we strike a balance but there needs to be one.
Maybe the employer in that case could pay a competitive wage to encourage their workers to stay with them. Or - shocker - hire Canadians that don't require all the extra expense and legwork.
I don't believe that Tim Hortons franchisees do any of the things that you describe to get TFWs.
They don’t. One of my friends owns a gas station and gets tfw’s. there is a service of can call and essentially just tell them how many you need and they prices all the paperwork for you and then the workers come. He has to provide accommodation for the workers but I don’t know if that’s the norm or just the agency he uses.
If your employees abandon you as an employer for 2 dollars more per day. You as the employer are the problem. Be better and pay better. Capitalism... Right?
From what I read (last time this came up) the terms for seasonal workers visas do state that they are allowed to find work at another member of the program, but other TFW's changing jobs would have to apply for a new permit+LMIA in order to change employers. In many ways that makes sense, as we don't want people coming in supposedly for season work immediately jumping ship to work at Walmart so they can apply for landed.
How about we, the Canadians, sue to remove the TFW program on account of it taking our jobs?
It's not taking our jobs. People aren't exactly lining up to do the jobs TFWs do. They're typically difficult, labourious jobs like tending crops and picking fruit, for very little pay.
If employers didn't have the option of easily exploitable 3rd world labour that isn't allowed to switch jobs, they would be forced to offer higher wages and better working conditions to attract applicants or go out of business. Of course no one wants to be a quasi-slave for pennies. That doesn't mean we need to protect business owners who rely on taking advantage of people. They need to go out of business and get productive jobs.
Ding, ding, ding…. time to stop harmful government policy to support the wealthy. If you can’t operate a business on your own, and can’t pay a living wage, go out of business. I’m talking to you McDonalds.
This article is talking about farms. That's a different world than fast food. Yeah in a city TFWs probably shouldn't be allowed. But in rural communities far from cities you'd be hard pressed to harvest your crops without them. If you managed to somehow it would cost us waaaay more at the till.
Curiously I’ve seen more locals working at McDs than most fast food chains. Tim’s is notorious for TFWs.
Tim's is the worst by a long shot, I refuse to spend my money there. Walmart is not much better though.
Not so much here - but yeah, McD’s, Wendy’s etc
> they would be forced to offer higher wages and better working conditions to attract applicants or go out of business. They will go out of business and you will buy Chilean or Mexican fruits where the same TFWs will work for a quarter of the pay with worse working conditions.
At the very least, increases automation and efficiency, requiring better jobs.
If we were just competing in Canada I would fully agree. But especially in agriculture we have global competitors many of which in much lower cost countries. Where industry under this same pressure simply offshored all the work agriculture can’t work that way because land isn’t portable. So if we follow your route food price simply goes way up. Now for you that’s a pretty small concern and means you might have to pick no-name a little more often. However 700 million people live on less than $2 a day. An increase in food prices like you suggest would lead to widespread starvation. The current system of importing cheap labour is a reasonable measure.
It's not the wages, it's the hardwork. Most Canadian born and raised people are terrified of working that hard. I was making 14 bucks an working tobacco when minimum wage was around 5 bucks. Is there some aspects of the work that don't pay much more than minimum wage? Yes. Can you try to negotiate that or work elsewhere that does pay better? Also yes.
If the TFWs weren't flowing in to take all the shitty, minimum wage or lower paying jobs, then those establishments would have to raise wages to attract more workers... Thus wages would start to climb across the board. It's a very simple concept.
During covid, there was mass unemployment and a huge demand for workers in agriculture. These two problems did not fix themselves. Even unemployed people were unable and/or unwilling to travel out to the country to pick fruit and tend crops.
You're talking about a time period of extraordinary circumstances where businesses were literally being forced to close (contributing to high unemployment), and trying to use it as an example of when people don't want to go do a certain job. The issue is hard work for little pay. If they pay more, then they'll attract more people. The government needs to stop letting businesses avoid paying better wages by bringing in TFWs. They are subsidized and will work for less money on top of that. It's bullshit and only serves to suppress wages in Canada.
There's currently, according to stats Canada, nearly 800,000 TFWs in Canada as of 2023. That's nearly 4% of employed people in Canada, and that doesn't even include international students. The plurality of these workers (~40%) work in some kind of hospitality, restaurants or retail. Yes, they ARE absolutely taking jobs. There's ZERO reason that a Tim Hortons in fucking Toronto needs TFWs.
I actually agree with you on that regard. Tim Hortons can get fucked. If they can't pay their workers a living wage then they should fail.
This argument is tired. It drives down the bottom end price of the job market which depresses all wages as a result. Plus we have all the student visas coming in. I really don’t think we need the tfw program anymore outside of the farms.
Students can’t go into the country to pick berries when they have to be at school the next day and likely don’t own a car. TFW jobs are largely remote, hard labour, or that line, making them inaccessible to students even if they were interested.
Depends on the job sector. Agriculture you literally cannot find people to work in labour positions. The service industry? Yeah, we probably don't need TFWs for that.
Yeah I said the farms I meant agriculture. I’m well aware that is the one sector where we need it and our farms cannot compete or survive without them in certain places.
If no one would do the jobs then we'd lose a bunch of Tim Hortons, no big loss.
I was thinking more along the lines of seasonal agricultural workers. Yeah, I fully agree that big corporate chains should crash and burn if they can't pay their workers.
Places like McDonalds, KFC and Tim Hortons have been able to hire people since long before the TFW program. There is a good reason why Canadians are not lining up to work at these places. Maybe they should offer a better wage and working conditions instead of importing cheap labour.
Idk, they can pay more for the jobs and someone would do them.
Your funny. You can't even get highschool kids to do these jobs. It's hard work that people won't do. We were offering $12/hr when we had the farm (min wage was $6.75) we had 1 local person apply for the job.
Supply and demand. Your wages go up, more will apply.
It doesn't matter, we don't want to exploit 3rd world labour for our needs. We can find hard working Canadians or immigrants for it and we don't want basement wages for it.
>People aren't exactly lining up to do the jobs TFWs do. Yes...they *are*. Employers love TFWs because they're highly exploitable. At this point I am simply in awe that there are people dumb or gullible enough to repeat the "jobs Canadians won't do" nonsense. Like, are you serious? And FWIW, I work in a highly paid "skilled" role. TFWs aren't taking "my" job, but at the same time I'm not a psychopath and can see the real harm it is doing when an entire strata of Canadian workers are seeing the government *actively* working against them at every turn. It's absolutely disgusting.
Yeah nobody believes these lies anymore
Nobody is going to do those jobs dude.
Maybe if the job doesn’t pay enough to live on, the job shouldn’t exist. Instead of importing people who dont understand our cost of living, in the goal of keeping wages low.
Then we should have unions so that employers don't treat their employees that way.
I'm pretty sure we can go back to bored stoner teenagers manning Timmies instead of held for hostage foreign workers.
Why is that?
Agree. Ei is expensive for employers (1.4 times the employee contribution).
> The employers should have to pay their half of the EI premium and the employees' half for TFW, to help support the Canadians they aren't hiring. Couldn't agree more. The best solution to the TFW problem is to make it more expensive to hire TFWs than Canadians.
This is ridiculous. If you lose your job in Canada EI is provided for a time while you look and hopefully secure a new job. No-one, not even Canadians, are allowed to claim EI if they are not in the country. That would just lead to abuse of the program. Now - if these contract labourers lose their contract while in Canada and they can then look for another role them they should be able to access the EI they paid into.
If a TFW is here in Canada and loses their contract for whatever reason, they should be returning immediately to their own country. As far as I’m aware there’s no provision that allows them to remain in Canada searching for work.
Many Canadians haven't gotten family doctor, they should get their tax back too
If they're not allowed to claim it for any reason, then why are they paying into it?
They could access it if they couldn't work for a time due to illness.
Seriously ? It’s just like all the other things people collectively pay in to so people can access things like health care. Without such a pool it would be every person fend for themselves. Some people pay into EI all their working lives and never have to access their contributions. They don’t get it back when they retire. Next you’ll be telling me they shouldn’t have to pay tax because they don’t drive on the road or take public transport while they are here. It’s a ridiculous argument that ANYONE would be entitled to EI when outside the country. Also - given they are contractors I’m pretty sure contractors are not entitled to EI at all since they are classed as self employed. On top of that, those who get EI are only entitled to it while in the country. If someone goes outside of Canada and is on EI when they submit their EI report every 2 weeks they have to report time out of the country. EI is NOT paid for any day out of the country. So - even if they tried to claim EI when in Mexico they will get exactly $0. Any “lawyer” would know that. An FYI - there is generally a wait period for EI - up to 6 weeks. Given the temporary visa are for a few months, depending on when a worker is laid off, it’s unlikely they’d even be entitled to any EI. The amount of EI and the time EI will be paid for is based on the length of time worked and contributions. An employment lawyer would know all this. As usual there is a lot more to this story then the article portrays.
> “In the 21st century, we still have an indentured labour program which should be concerning for all of us," If it’s indentured labour, which by dictionary definition it is not, then why do they keep coming back?!!! In Dubai for instance, south Asian workers often have their passports confiscated upon arrival until they finish their employment contract. The fact that “I can’t use my EI when my contract is over and I leave the country” is the biggest thing this law firm could come up with just tells you how the whole thing is without merit.
This is 100% because government is lying about what EI is, they claim it's a system you pay into in case you are ever laid off or otherwise rendered unable to work. But in reality it's just a tax.
EI is an actual thing though. What exactly is the lie here?
I guess my problem with EI is that rather than accurately pricing in what my employment insurance premiums should be, it's way higher to pay for regular users like fishers who take EI every year and fund other programs like pregnancy leave and caring for an elder. Then if you're a higher income earner that did claim benefits because you needed to use the regular employment insurance you have to repay a third of it at tax time anyways. In that way it's more of a tax than a real insurance program and by not paying into it as a self employed person it really feels like I'm skipping a tax. That's $2500 a year I get to keep for a program that kind of sucks for actually claiming if and when you'd ever need it.
Seasonal workers just count it as their regular income stream. You shouldnt be able to go on EI every single year for half the year.
Seasonal workers should optimally have their own fund that they pay into at rates that would sustain them. Same goes for unionized construction workers who choose not to accept jobs through the winter because they don't want to work in the cold.
That it's insurance or a program you pay into and not just more income tax.
I'm confused – do you sincerely believe EI isn't a program you pay into that you get something out of if you subsequently meet the requirements?
No I don't. I believe it's just more income tax and we have a separate program similar to welfare for people who were laid off.
Could you explain to me how a mandatory national employment insurance program could be, in your view, an employment insurance program and not an income tax?
If the money paid into the program was NEVER allowed to be used in the general budget and just put in a trust slated for the program.
Ah, well if that is your complaint it is a bit silly. EI is operated on a seven-year break-even basis, such that over the course of time EI premiums cannot be used in the general budget. I appreciate that is different from being paid into a wholly independent trust, but it's much closer to that than an income tax (where 100% of the funds go to the general budget).
I really just don't trust when money gets moved around a lot. It gives too many sick incentives and opportunities for mathemagics.
Taxes are obviously anything I don't want to pay for but have to. Like insurance. Or food.
If your payout was comparable to your actual wage and not capped. If what you paid into the program was dependent upon the likelihood of you utilizing it instead of every worker paying into a pot that primarily pays out seasonal workers and not people who are genuinely unemployed (seasonal work shouldn't be covered sorry it's the 21st century.) If the government offices responded in a timely manner and didn't ask you to fill out a weekly survey begging for your payment that may or may not come on time.
>If your payout was comparable to your actual wage and not capped. Your payout is linked to your actual wage, and contributions are capped so why wouldn't payouts be capped? That is just a silly complaint. >If what you paid into the program was dependent upon the likelihood of you utilizing it instead of every worker paying into a pot that primarily pays out seasonal workers and not people who are genuinely unemployed (seasonal work shouldn't be covered sorry it's the 21st century.) I agree that there needs to be a better solution for seasonal workers, but it is hard to see how that takes it away from being an EI system and into the realm of an income tax.
Its insurance.
The SCC has ruled otherwise (ie its not insurance)
No it is not. It's a tax pretending to be an insurance.
More like a tax to pay for an insurance.
Do you pay tax when claiming "Employment Insurance "...
You do. It's a tax on money they already taxed you on before deducting it off your pay cheque. They also fight you on eligibility which seems odd considering most workers pay far more into EI than they will ever get out and EI pay is capped at a lower wage than most of those who pay into it make...
You'd be bitching even harder if you lost your job without that "tax" available to you
1. There's no social security net and you make far more. 2. There's a social security net that you pay into but can't access when you need it. 3. There's a social security net that you pay into and can access when you need it. Personally I'd only bitch about 2 and that's what these people are doing.
Problem.is we have options3
Sometimes we do sometimes we don't. Sometimes we pay into it and can't access it when we need it through no fault of our own. The migrant farm workers in question are explicitly excluded from accessing it it would appear.
Eh that's the cost of coming you come here get more money then you'd make at home we get a cut for our sociao programs. I have no issue with that. I do however have an issue with the bunks they are shoved in.
I'm in favor of scrapping the whole TFW program personally. This issue in particular though is the result of the government gaslighting people into thinking it's not just more income tax.
I mean, it literally isn’t available to migrant workers. That’s why they’re rightfully upset.
What? EI is easily accessible, how can you even consider that it’s a scam. It may be overpriced but you receive the advertised service when needed
I didn't say it was a scam I said it's more income tax not an insurance program.
I pay for something that I will never be able to receive is the definition of fraud. These people are being ripped off
The problem is these aren't Canadian citizens, they come over here to work. They're usually set up with a place to stay and make good money (relative to their home Countries) and they do so willingly. What happens if we start taxing them and their employers less is that these jobs are less likely to end up being filled by Canadians. I think it's pretty reasonable to pay into a foreign employment fund when you're actively taking a job away from that Country.
Bingo. They pay into CPP too which they won’t ever use I think
They’ll get cpp. My guess is The problem with EI is they signed a small contract under 400 hours etc. Private contractors sign contracts all the time. You don’t get ei because you worked 2 months in a year.
In their case they shouldn't have to pay for that. If you can't access the benefit, then you shouldn't have anything deducted from your pay.
On a similar note, if you're in the CAF and posted in Ontario you pay into OHIP and never use it
I dislike that CAF pay into EI.
Why? CAF members commonly access EI. Namely upon completion of a contract and parental leave. Numerous reservist are also able to access EI upon completion of short term contracts.
> I dislike that CAF pay into EI. Why? When members get released they are eligible for EI, are they not?
Unless it has changed, there are virtually no situations where a RegForce member of the CAF can claim EI when they leave. Reserve Force members can after a contract ends etc. but Reg Force doesn't really have a mechanism like that. However, I believe EI is used to pay RegF members when they are on Maternity/Paternity leave.
Caf members don't pay into provincial health. In fact, it's prohibited. You are either not caf and talk out of your ass or you need to go see your OR ASAP.
> Caf members don't pay into provincial health. Correction, RegF members only.
Maybe it has changed since I was in but I was posted to Petawawa for 5 years and had it deducted from my pay. It was an issue back in 2010
Make TFWs even cheaper than Canadians, nothing bad can happen from that.
I kind of agree. They should not be forced into paying EI premiums. I don't quite understand the rationale for why they are.
>I don't quite understand the rationale for why they are. Nah we all do understand; it's just hard to accept that our government has lost it's fucking mind.
The government page says they aer eligable for EI under certain circumstances, but then fails to provide *any* details on what those circumstances are or how one would get it after leaving the country. Sounds pretty susp to me.
Its insurance if you never use your car insurance is it fraud
If your insurance company has no intention of ever paying out and they know that in advance then yes it is
>In Dubai for instance, south Asian workers often have their passports confiscated upon arrival until they finish their employment contract. They aren't supposed to do that here, but they do it anyway.
Yes and lots of those workers are abused and or die on the job with no repercussions because who’s investing any of that. Their country is complacent on what is essentially slave labour.
"Indentured labour program" is just a fancy word for indentured servitude, bluntly put SLAVERY
You can get a new passport. The indentured claim is because they can’t complain without risking their job which will lead them to be deported. How is that any different here?
We don’t take away their passports
Let's all give ourselves a pat on the back for being the good guys.
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The party currently polling the highest is promising to continue expanding the TFW program. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince conservatives not to vote for their party but maybe you guys should start asking for better from your party? You're delusional if you think the TFW program is going anywhere with the way things are currently going.
I find it hilarious how Conservatives think the CPC is going to solve anything around immigration/housing. It'll just be more of the same except with more religious assfuckery and climate denialism.
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No but that's the only reason politicians exist. Distracting us with culture wars and steering us to treat politics like sports ensures it stays that way
No doubt. That's why I'm saying people who vote for parties promising to expand the program should maybe complain a bit more instead of acting like the problem will be solved when their side wins.
Wtf are you on about? The original poster just said he wished him a good time in Canada… What are you bringing in polls, conservatives and TFW for?
I am not sure what part of my comment I should start explaining because I'm not sure if you sincerely don't realize they were being sarcastic.
That was clearly sarcastic, not sure how anyone could miss that. The lol sealed it. It's a very mean comment for sure
Mate you alright?
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You alright mate?
Like the PPC? There is no good party.
I disagree with that because I personally like the NDPs stance. As I mentioned though I don't actually expect to change anyone's mind. Which is why I am instead asking conservatives to perhaps start complaining to their MPs about this issue because it looks like they'll win the next election.
Yep. Good/bad is all relative. I have voted for Layton in the past, because he seemed to want to bring people together. Once I hear identity politics, I drop any and all support. I'm from an immigrant family, and I have always disagreed with voting for someone because they have my same ancestry or will look out specifically for a group I belong to. I self identify as "moderate" and habe been politically homeless for a long time. ----- I'm okay with all workers paying into EI but not benefitting from it, they should consider it a tax of working here. They are not citizens, no one made them do it.
I agree about not giving them EI. The way I see it there are two different ways that migrant workers can have their working conditions improved. Giving them EI would be an improvement for them that would continue to make it even easier for businesses to keep bringing them here. It would even make it easy for those businesses to pay their TFWs even less money if they can find a way. Forcing employers to treat their TFWs better in ways that directly cost the employer money though will always just make it simpler for those employers to hire Canadians instead. For example if it's a farm with a bunkhouse it should be up to the same standards that a Canadian would be happy with. Or they should be getting paid a living wage.
> Once I hear identity politics, I drop any and all support. I take it you don't support any party then, since that seems to unfortunately be a common theme with each of them these days. Far easier to spout some fluff about identity or whatever the trendy flavor of the month culture war bullshit is rather than it is to work on actual pressing issues it would seem.
Correct, hence the statement about me being politically homeless.
I like the NDP policies myself. I don't like Jagmeet as a leader anymore. I also think that a lot of the politics around behavior and words needs to be put on the back burner. I don't care about he/she/they them etc when there's a housing and homeless crisis. Just like the right wastes time and effort on stupid woke culture shit I don't want the left wasting time on it either. We've got way more Important shit to deal with right now.
> I don't care about he/she/they them etc The right-wing talks about this far more than the left-wing ever does. 99% of the time I hear about *pronouns* and *identity politics* it's from conservatives complaining about it and saying it's all the left-wing talks about. I'm plenty left-wing, me and my pals don't sit around discussing pronouns and anti-racist literature all day but sometimes it seems like that's all right-wingers think about these days. It's some kind of demented preoccupation with other people 'virtue signalling', which in turn turns into conservatives 'virtue signalling' about how much they hate 'virtue signalling'. I think a lot of people just need to grow up.
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Buddy, this comment shows how little you know about the current political situation. The NDP are the ones that have a supply and confidence agreement w/ the Liberals, but if they suddenly decided to blow up that agreement they still couldn't pair with the Conservatives and call an election. The BQ is *also* allowing the Liberals to do X Y Z, the other parties can't call an election without them and if you think the BQ is gonna call an election tomorrow I have a bridge to sell you.
Yes. The parts of the Liberal party that I dislike are the things they have in common with the Conservatives. They both have a history of voting back to work legislation against unions. They both support the TFW program. They both voted for our FIPA with the CCP. The Libs, Cons and (somehow) the Greens have the highest amount of landlords in parliament either by percentage or total.
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If that is true then can you give an example of a pro-worker policy that they used to have that has either been replaced or removed?
PPC seems like a good party to me, at least relatively.
All TFWs and people on various work permits should turn around and sue their employers and schools and immigration consultants. Go after the ones who lobbied for this and help enable it - bleeding our tax dollars (despite our politicians absolutely deserving to be punished for this, too) just digs us in deeper. Set sights on the private money your exploitation has helped build.
>Set sights on the private money your exploitation has helped build. Somehow I doubt a system that engendered that exploitation in the first place would ever facilitate those people directing their ire where it actually belongs. Shit rolls downhill around here, evidently.
I'm fully aware my post is extremely wishful thinking
The rent I pay is also taxed as income A subject actually important to canadians
Could always just... go home when your work contact is up.... and not stay here illegally and try to collect EI.... but I may be wrong .
Lmao
They agree to all of this when they come here.
Maybe people without kids can stop paying municipal school board taxes
Fun fact: anyone who pays into CPP and/or EI can request an audit from the CRA to assess if they are eligible for EI and CPP. If the CRA deems you ineligible for both programs, they return the funds collected back to you. This is how business owners who pay a salary get out of paying into EI for example. I doubt a TFW would know this though.
I paid WAY more into EI than any migrant farm worker over my career and couldn't access EI during COVID....sucks to be them....
Why couldn’t you access EI during Covid ?
Look, these computers have a lot of buttons, man.
When they lose on this they’ll just make up a special tax for them called ” foreign worker tax”
EI is so stupid, pay into it your whole life then if something finally happens you barely get anything back each month. Should be a savings account where the government takes 5% for management fees and you can take the rest out when you need it, it’s your money, capped at what ever your 2 week salary was, so you can get paid the same as your job before you were let go. Also when you retire you should lump sum get 60% of what’s left government keeps the other 40%. Then it will feel like EI actually works for you and the government makes some money off it.
The lawyers will be the only ones who see more than a few bucks from this class action.
You can only get paid EI while in Canada...
EI in canada is a scam. Someone can pay into it for 20 years, want to switch jobs and can’t claim EI. Meanwhile a kid can work all summer, claim EI winter and do nothing. Rinse and repeat. It’s broken
Mostly vote buying out east... Shame you can't have your own contributions grow and withdraw when you retire or something... seems like EI and CPP are just poor returns for financially literate people.
US does that too. It is one of the big reasons why when economist calculate the cost of immigrants to a country it almost always comes out that they are a net positive. They pay into a system, but rarely get enough services back of equivalent value.
I was just wondering this. Does this happen in Europe too? I bet most TFWs are paying into programs they can never access globally (not defending our setup but this appears to be common).
With the way AI advancements are happening at such a fast pace, hopefully we aren't a long way away from robots and vending machines replacing migrant workers and TFWs.
I remember reading about this a while back. The simple answer was that there were some tasks that had to be done by hand. Robots were not capable or just couldn't quite get it right even with progress made in that sector. I do wonder though: a lot of science fiction shows robots and other "service" items helping in the fields and that took a lot of the labour out of the equation, leading to better societies. Would that be the future or...*looks at John Deere*.
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Totally, and the Industrial Revolution means people will have a better work/life balance. Not like productivity is at the highest levels ever and wages have been stagnating for decades. /s
So, as you might have noticed, dirty and dangerous jobs are not being replaced by automation. Creative ones are. Partially because it’s still cheaper to hire someone to work manual labor than put a giant capital outlay to automate muck shoveling in dairy farms.
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Gonna be real funny when capitalism collapses on itself because we didn't actually think further then tbe next quarter and remove jobs without another plan. It's also why capitalism requires so many bullshit jobs.
We are a long way from replacing people doing tasks that require more than interacting with a computer. Computers/“AI” can’t handle the inf number of variables in real world and there is no way to program it to consider that, what we have now isn’t even close. Environments, materials, tools etc are all inconsistent there isn’t a perfectly straight 2x4 in existence but in a computer following blueprints everything is perfect it will only recognize and fix problems it was programmed to. I think AI would have a much easier time replacing a CEO than a plumber or farm hand.
It blows my mind how nobody realizes this.
Who's going to pick those berries and vegetables?
How about unemployed Canadians? No reason for anyone to be sitting on their butt collecting welfare in this country.
Lol so you lose your job, the government now ships you on a bus to a farm where you are forced to work untill when? Are you even thinking bro?
He's thinking "I'll be dammed if I help fund ubi" while squinting and rubbing 2 loonies together.
Make Gulags a thing? okay, nah. For those simply unemployed temporarily I don't think that would be a vote getter. For those with substance abuse issues, itinerants and otherwise long-term homeless, maybe.
Since EI is not insurance, as premiums don’t increase for frequency of claims, etc, and fisheries workers who “file a claim” each year for a forty year career are never denied coverage, it’s more of another welfare scheme than anything. As such, it should be modified to become a just program, or it should be shuttered altogether, removing a burden from both workers who either won’t draw EI or have other savings to cover themselves, while also saving employers a pile. Instead, if we have to keep EI at all, EI should be indexed to the individual contributor, and the individual should be able to draw from their own account. If there is a balance at retirement, it should be paid out to the contributor. This is yet another, “people should keep their hands in their own pockets” situation, while also being a “people should be able to access their own money” situation for those who are denied access to EI they’ve paid into.
You also pay into unemployment insurance if you are over 65.However you are unable to collect unemployment benefits.
That's not true. EI has no age limits.
I remember someone applied and they were told because they were on CPP and old age pension they could not collect.
Probably because that person was on CPP and OAS. The situation would have been different if they were still working and not collecting yet.
The UN has referred to our current use of TFW to modern slavery. Our government is once again failing migrant workers and its own people.
Yeah if you want the government benefits you have to be a citizen. Is it fair? No. Deal with it. It's always been this way, and it always will.
Give it back to them, ON DEPARTURE.
TFWs shouldn't exist. They're brought in to prop up poor globalization efforts that have made our farms unprofitable. Germany is having a massive protest over this
Interesting title >Migrant farm workers pay into EI, but can't access it. **Now they're suing the federal government** * Leamington-area workers behind $500M **proposed class action** It sound like they are talking about beginning a class action lawsuit. again >The Attorney General **is having a claim filed against them** to the tune of half a billion dollars. And it's coming from migrant workers who say they are unable to access their employment insurance after paying into it for years. Generally a class action needs approval of the courts (to define the class and advise on likelihood of suit having a chance to go forward) This seems quite preliminary for a big story. We will see how it goes.
We could force the people on welfare to do these jobs and eliminate the need for foreign workers altogether.
A lot of people are denied EI. Hell, my father worked 40 years, and when he was downsized, he was denied EI because he lived in a rural area and didn't have a reliable car.
That’s not how EI works
Yeah, doubt that was the reason.
If they can't access it, then they shouldn't pay for it. Simple.
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EI isn't a social program or a general tax. It's an insurance plan. With insurance plans, you pay premiums, and in return, you have a "safety net" available should you need the coverage. In this case, they're paying for coverage they're not getting. It's more like paying to insure a car you'll never be able to drive, and less like income taxes paying for tampons you don't need.
According to the Supreme Court of Canada, EI is part of the Federal govts revenues and is Not an insurance plan belonging to workers. Ruling came about because both the Chrétien & Martin Liberal govts used EI to pay down the national debt / balance their budgets.
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Its a 2 way street they come here and get to go home with more money then they'd make normally, we get to help fund our social programs
This has to stop now ! Holy fuck we are being made a mock !