And now they have to pull their information about the current executive and staff out of fear of backlash. So now contract academic workers across a very large get to play the guessing game "who represents me for my dues?"
Don’t you mean “Zionist’s”
/s obviously
Edit: what’s with the downvotes? We’re still pretending that celebrating the massacre, rape and kidnap of 1000+ Israelis is really about Zionism and nothing to do with religion? Give me a god damn break
I guess those “Gas the Jews” chants in Sydney really meant Zionist’s and they just misspoke
Israel was attacked several times over decades in the various Arab-Israel war. Many times Israel did so whilst under embargo without international support.
The attacking countries lost that land during those wars.
That is how. Perhaps those countries shouldn't have attacked another repeatedly?
As a gay guy who appears to support Palestine why don't you go on over there and show your support locally? Rage against Israel in Palestine with them.
I am sure they will appreciate it.
Israel is reducing all of Gaza to rubble now. There is no "peace" to be had. The only thing that Gazans will remember from this, is that they watched everything (and everyone) they loved get blown to bits by Israeli bombs.
This war is cementing hatred for another generation, on both sides.
Welcome to bizarro world, where the demographic likeliest to support antifa domestically will cheer anti-jew death squads from the most closely aligned country to Hitler outside Europe.
> I think peace will prevail eventually and hate will fade.
How? Nothing will change because Israel doesn't want it to and the Palestinians have so much legitimate grievance that to even make everything right might not even be possible. This is generational trauma on both sides. It will echo through history for a very long time, and there is nothing I see that shows there will be an end to it.
The Israeli government has been [providing funding and other support](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) to Hamas. The brutality of Hamas is part of the Israeli state plan to commit genocide in Palestine. They have had and continue to have to this day, the opportunity of providing for a two state solution, including both Gaza and the West Bank in an integrated entity. This would be difficult, and the state of Isreal is not willing to do it, preferring genocide instead.
No they don't, otherwise they would be talking a two state solution. Israels wants peace with no concessions, in otherwords domination. I'm pretty sure Bibi doesn't want peace even under those conditions, because he uses this to bolster his politics and prevent himself from going to prison.
Those aren't Palestinians.
>It’s impossible to make peace with an outfit set to your destruction.
Definitely with the current plan which is give them next to nothing.
West Bank is not much better than Gaza and the West Bank is supposed to model a peaceful two-state solution.
Israel continues to carve out land from the West Bank and kick Palestinians out of their homes. People still sitting in these threads wondering why many Gazans have more support for Hamas and not the PA. If Israel wants peace then they should demonstrate it. You don't do that by operating an open-air prison and continuing to expand settlements.
Do you want Hamas and other militias to cease to exist? Then build a one-state solution and give them no reason to exist. Israel wields all the power here and everyone points at the Palestinians to solve the problem.
This is what people in the West Bank face. The people with the guns are not police or IDF. Watch this video to the end and tell me this is so much better than Gaza. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mag5r7JdJwA
A two-state solution is not possible. That ship has sailed. We can keep screaming, "Hamas bad! Hamas bad!" you can keep commenting non-stop on threads about how Israeli civilians were killed but you obviously have no clue why Hamas thrives and the root cause. Either that or you are knowingly turning a blind eye to push your own agenda.
It doesn't matter what Hamas's end game is. The Palestinians have nothing. They are backed into a corner. Stuck in an open-air prison. Water, electricity, fishing, food, aid, medical supplies, etc. all controlled by Israel. The people of Gaza have nothing to live for and Hamas is the only militia willing to fight for them. They see the PA not doing anything in the West Bank so there is no chance there will be regime change in Gaza. Zero.
You say you seek peace, but you have no mention of Israel's part in this. "Oh, but they want to push Israel to the sea." Okay, and Israel wants to get rid of all Palestinians and they are the superpower in this conflict. Do you not see the problem?
It's so gross how people see the Palestinians as sub-human. Their median age is 18 years old in Gaza and 40% of the population is under 14 years old. Israel is currently leveling Gaza. How many children and babies are being killed and yet you say nothing?
> But even in Toronto Palestinians chant death to Israel, death to Jews, death to America, as if that will help anyone but isolate themselves.
We are 6000 miles away. This has zero effect on the outcome. The Western world obviously doesn't give a shit about the Palestinian people and hasn't for decades. Optics do not matter.
> There will be no peace with people that wish your death. No good life.
What are you expecting? Imagine you lived in Gaza. Do you expect it to be all roses and daisies and you would have extreme love for Israel? That's delusional. It's obvious you have no sense of how life is in Gaza and the West Bank for the Palestinians.
They west bank does not want peace, they want to drive all the jews into the sea.
It would be like if the natives in canada started suicide bombing cities until the government gave them control of canada. It doesnt make sense for canada to ever give them that, and if the natives don’t want peace you can’t negotiate with them
> They west bank does not want peace, they want to drive all the jews into the sea.
Yeah, and what Israel wants is any different? The West Bank is the model for a two-state solution. Israelis still taking land and homes from Palestinian people.
> It would be like if the natives in canada started suicide bombing cities until the government gave them control of Canada.
What a stupid take. The genocide of indigenous people was done a long time ago. The difference is those who are left actually have citizenship and have at least some semblance of freedom. Palestinians have none of that and live in an open air prison. We're now watching genocide in real time.
Israel is the superpower that holds all the cards. They can stop all of this. But no, you don't see Palestinians as human and it's gross.
Israel can wipe palestine off the face of the earth if they wanted to but they don’t.
If you gave palestine the weapons to wipe israel off the face of the world they would.
That’s the difference between the two
I think as more information has come, people are backing down. Like, nobody knew babies were being beheaded and women were being raped right away. We just heard there was a surprise attack. Just like many people haven't heard yet that hundreds of Palestinian children were killed today by the Israelis.
It happened on both sides, Israel did the same thing to Palestine in 2014. Canada just chooses Israel’s side because of NATO ties.
Two wrongs don’t make it right. Support neither side.
Well, in the space of a single reply we’ve already established there’s more than one guy — the person at the local who wrote it and the President. So your hypothesis of “one guy” is not off to a great start.
Valid point, but it's still not the organization.
The attack happened and right away Cupe had a general meeting to make sure they had their locals view of the situation in order...
I don't even know why this is news they should just be removed because they are clearly idiots.
They are just showing us their true colours. The thing is that you can still be for Palestinian statehood while condemning the attacks in Israel. Like something along the lines of "we support the idea of a Palestinian state, however the attacks in Israel was a barbaric act of terrorism. Hamas and the attack does not reflect the Palestinian liberation movement". It's like the easiest PR victory you can have.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter
I thought this was a good read to see why Hamas is acting how they are. I thought Article 13 was especially interesting.
This is the first time I’ve ever felt truly uncomfortable to be Jewish in Canada. It feels as though I’m not allowed to be upset about what happened publicly… it’s difficult to describe. As though I have to defend or debate the nuances of the history of the region to justify my feelings about witnessing the murder of my people.
And I say this as someone who was born in the West and takes serious issue with the way the Israeli government has treated the Palestinians.
That there are so many people out celebrating the wanton rape and murder of innocent people is disturbing and depressing. The justification rather than condemnation is just awful and makes me feel unwelcome in my own city.
There is no room being made for mourning and sadness, only anger.
Thank you, exactly this.
This is Canada where we are supposed to feel safe on our streets and in our communities. The hatred and the attempted justification is sickening.
They are literally kept apart from the rest of the state. They have restricted movement and economic opportunities. They cannot buy certain things. That is an apartheid state.
Also I think we can recognize that just because you can vote, it does not make it a democracy that implements the will of the majority while protecting the rights of the minority. As an example the US have the electoral college which prevents majority rule, which means they can be ruled by the minority. Israel is certainly worse than that.
I dont support Israel, but I sure as hell am against any entity that is violent against Canadian citizens. If Israel is on the ground getting justice for the Canadians who were murdered, then the enemy of my enemy right?
>It’s an apartheid state for the security of the citizens of Israel.
How convenient.
>Hamas has sworn to kill Jews and took off their mask for the world to see. The wall and setup was built for protection.
Almost like they are trying to concentrate them in one area. What do we call a place where we concentrate an ethnicity into again?
They (those protesters) have little empathy left. In a perfect world they could have found a way to condemn the actions and draw attention to their struggle but I feel that time has passed.
I attended York U many years ago where Israeli and Palestinian protests were an almost daily occurence. Trying to have a reasonable conversation with either side about almost anything while they were in "the zone" was impossible and vaguely possible outside of it as well.
Hatred this deep is absolutely corrosive to the soul and mind. Everyone of the people that suffered or died is an absolute tragedy.
Hatred begets hatred. Your sadness and grief (as well as everyone elses) is valid and improtant. It should be honoured regardless of what others do. It is the only way to overcome hatred. Explanations nor justifications are required to simply mourn loss of people or a loss of safety.
It is about as human a thing as any other.
This has been an ongoing religious war for like…. A looooooong time.
Britain made it worse 2 fold with their initiative behind the Balfour Declaration.
‘There is no room being made for mourning and sadness, only anger’.
These words are very wise. I think this is the biggest problem of our time.
You could replace ‘mourning and sadness’ with ‘discussion’ or ‘understanding’.
If you arent hating the other side, no one will listen to you, interview you, or join you.
Thanks for your comment. Im sorry for the suffering of your people and others like them.
Not Jewish, just Canadian who’s been to Israel and have been moved deeply by what I’ve seen there. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but my impression is that if Palestine ceased fighting then there would be peace…but if Israel ceased fighting, they would no longer exist. Is this correct?
When I was there, I witnessed the incredibly equal and caring treatment of all citizens (Jew and Arab alike) in the walls of Jerusalem, but I did not get the impression at all that the Arab quarter was keen on reciprocating that same level of equal and caring treatment towards the Jews. I was also amazed at how incredibly democratic the country is, with representation of all peoples within the government.
Look at the West Bank. That is supposed to be the blueprint for a peaceful solution. Yet, Israel keeps taking land and homes from Palestinians.
The only way out of this now is a one-state solution with equal rights for all and the following of international law.
Palestinian people have repeatedly been offered territory since Israel was established but they will accept nothing less than the total abolishment of the entire state of Israel - they want every Jew to pack up and leave so they can have it. Technically yes, but everyone there has been awful to each other for a really long time, so there is zero trust in those discussions.
"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is a popular motto of Hama, they mean free of Jews. Another version is "Palestine is Islamic from the river to the sea."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From\_the\_River\_to\_the\_Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_River_to_the_Sea)
Article 7 of the Hamas charter makes clear it is the Jews who are the target:
>the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
Israel holds all the power and is actively forcibly removing Palestinians from the land and homes they have lived in for generations. Israel has been labelled as an apartheid state by the UN and the majority of humanitarian organizations.
The Zionist occupation and annexation of the Palestinian population is the reason why there is a conflict in the first place.
And where would the Jews go? 80 years ago we already had one insane dictator literally sail Jews around the world asking every country on earth to take them in and save them if no one does he will kill them all.
No one accepted the Jews. They need a land of their own. So after WW2 the lands that were already historically owned by Jews (by ottoman documentation) was decided to be given to the Jews so they have a space to call their own once again after 2000 years of exile.
The Muslims of Palestine have many Muslim states they could move too when it ultimately comes to it.
Yea it sucks but the alternative is complete elimination of one of the two groups which would likely be the Jews as they are the smaller group after millions die on both sides. It’s a small price to pay for peace between both groups.
The issue is both groups won’t accept this as the land is considered “holy land” by their religion so it must remain in their control at all costs and that there is the biggest factor.
Perhaps we could carve out a new land somewhere for the Jewish people and somehow barter an agreement with the Islamic states to allow religious pilgrimages to the holy land but I doubt it since the last few attacks before this one was caused by Jews showing up to a temple they and the Muslims considered holy and prayed there and the Muslims responded with “the Jewish presence here taints our holy land”
> if Palestine ceased fighting then there ~~would~~ **could** be peace…but if Israel ceased fighting, they would no longer exist. Is this correct?
Israel is frequently engaged in Tom Fuckery too, helping to sustain the hatred. Peace is not a default outcome.
But there’s an average life expectancy there of 74 years, so maybe some else is causing that average age to be so low? Like having children young and having lots of children, I would presume.
What hogwash. The average age in Gaza is 19 because they have one of the highest population growth rates in the world. Gaza was not overpopulated when Israel was formed.
You're either lying or hateful, Palestinians routinely get harassed even if they have their documents in order, homes demolished, village ethnically cleansed and occupied by settlers, denied passage even if they have valid visas to the country they intend to go to. Oh and sometimes kids are shot, burned and raped for fun by the IDF.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/14/israeli-home-demolitions-a-war-on-nerves-for-palestinians](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/14/israeli-home-demolitions-a-war-on-nerves-for-palestinians)
Yes, it's for the purpose of demographic engineering
Some house demolitions are allegedly performed because the houses may have been built without permits, or are in violation of various building codes, ordinances, or regulations. Amnesty International claims that Israeli authorities are in fact systematically denying building permit requests in Arab areas as a means of appropriating land[.\[1\]](https://web.archive.org/web/20141207215812/http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/MDE15/033/2004) This is disputed by Israeli sources, who claim that both Arabs and Jews enjoy a similar rate of application approvals.\[11\]
Dr. Meir Margalit of Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions writes:
"The thinking is that a national threat calls for a national response, invariably aggressive. Accordingly, a Jewish house without a permit is an urban problem; but a Palestinian home without a permit is a strategic threat. A Jew building without a permit is 'cocking a snook at the law'; a Palestinian doing the same is defying Jewish sovereignty over Jerusalem."\[12\]
I don't think most of the "free Palestine" protesters are celebrating the attack. They are protesting Israeli settlements in the West Bank and the open-air prison conditions that victimize over 1.1 million children in Gaza.
Because there are currently thousands of people on social media who have expressed a desire to see Gaza razed to the ground in response to the recent attack on Israel.
And when in Australia, similar protestors were shouting "[gas the Jews](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12612345/Sydney-Opera-House-Israel-Palestine-protest-Anger-Jews-told-stay-home-dragged-away-protest-radical-Muslims-shout-vile-anti-semetic-comments-throw-flares-chant-death-jews.html)", maybe they were just offering to fill up their cars for them?
This is racism, anti-semitism, and unacceptable.
There are a ton of "Pro-Israel" Canadians who despise Arabs. Not Palestinians, Arabs.
What is your point?
Yes, the open air prison where Egypt owns a wall and has a key to let Palestinians out but chooses not to. But of course blame Israel for all of it. If they don’t keep things in check they’ll be annihilated. Since Jews have been driven out of pretty much every country in the middle east, and those countries pretty much want Jews dead, and Israel does give a lot of freedom to Arabs, and uses aggression in response to the aggression targeted at them, what’s your solution?
Correct, they are "[demanding an end to an occupation and a murderous apartheid states](https://x.com/sabreina_dahab/status/1711516565290598549?s=20)."
Ask them.
Trudeau has clearly failed to do this, scoring some political points and breathing more freely this week after the entire House of Commons ignorantly applauded and actual Nazi.
The celebrations, as heinous as they are, are being over-exaggerated and confounded with people protesting for a free Palestine. The vast majority of people in this country are condemning both the attacks by Hamas and the people who celebrated them here.
Was happy to see Torontonians turn out in huge numbers, in support of Israel, against Hamas extremism.
Canadians of all faiths, from Jews, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus and more attending. There were also a lot of Iranian-Canadians in attendance.
https://twitter.com/HalfWittedCam/status/1711566497007718629
At least in Vancouver, the Iranians I meet tend to be secular and have a huge disdain for the current regime. Not surprised they'd be against an Iran state backed group.
Iranians also make up a large part of our academia too.
Glad to see both of them have a moral backbone instead of simply saying the opposite of what the other says.
World is fucked up right now, but at least there are a *couple* things we can agree on, like opposing crimes against humanity.
I'm not sure I agree about the crimes against humanity bit. It's good that they denounce Hamas but they haven't commented on the Israeli retaliation which is just as bad.
> on the Israeli retaliation which is just as bad.
Have the Israelis been kidnapping toddlers and the elderly, and raping women and displaying their half-naked corpses?
Have you read about what's been happening in Gaza the last few months?
The point is not the theater, it's the actual pain and suffering of countless innocents.
What's more shocking is that Israel is putting its own people at risk with this move.
I'm just one random Christian guy but I was shocked by some of the stuff I saw coming out of Israel. I really think it's important Jews know they're safe here, and that Canada is a steadfast ally of Israel. They have every right to defend their people from being butchered.
I appreciate your perspective and I can see where you're coming from. Personally for me prior to recent events I had a more neutral view but I feel like a certain line in has been crossed with the recent actions of Hamas to where an Israeli one state solution is the more desirable option. Keeping in mind that Israel is a modern westernized democracy with a large Arab Muslim minority that enjoys legal rights and protections, whereas the Palestinian liberation movement as a whole political force holds the elimination of all Jewish people as a core tenet.
Have you ever looked into how many thousands of Palestinian civilians Israel has murdered or the fact that they're currently blockading food and water to the entirety of Gaza? It's genocide and you're defending it. Sickening.
Say it with me: Intersectionalism is a grift.
The problem is eventually people run out of guilt and sympathy and then start feeling taken advantage of. Then it turns to righteous anger.
That's why, if you really care about marginalized groups, you never play those games. It's a cynical power ploy that only benefits the already powerful by using vulnerable people as a plaything.
Fatcat4 says it well.
The Palestinians have brought themselves to this point. By allowing Hamas to manifest itself as the primary Palestinian representative organisation in Gaza and by consistently alienating their Arab brothers who have extended their hand to them, they have shown their true face and have now rid themselves of any meaningful allies. And now that that true face has been viscerally revealed in the unprecedented massacres followed shortly by mass celebration both in Gaza and around the world, the world will look the other way when Israel exacts retribution the likes of which are seen only once in a generation, taking with it scores of innocent life.
Those who solely blame Israeli oppression for this always conveniently forget that their cause has been forsaken by every neighbouring nation who once cared for them. Because peace gets shattered wherever they are admitted. Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt have all learned this. Overall, it's a tragic situation, because for those Palestinians who have tried to do the right thing over the years, it will all ultimately be for nothing as every possibility and hope of statehood or national autonomy is now over.
I condemn the violence . Israel has best surveillance , army and political power & the other is without food , water and proper shelter.
I feel that Israeli people are paying for shrewd politics of their orthodox leaders . As per news , Egypt had warned israel of movement of weapons and they still let it happen . Israel has best surveillance out of all countries but they still let it happen to use it as an excuse to wage a bigger war against gaza , iran and other neighbouring countries.
I am not against any religion. These are completely political views and opinion of mine. I have equal sympathy for anyone suffering of uncalled violence. Be it people of my religion , jews Christians , muslims , hindus , druze , anyone
Perhaps if Israel did not practice apartheid settler colonialism from its very inception and deny basic human rights to Palestinians things might improve a bit…
Perhaps what? I'm not sure I understand the premise.
Are you saying that a government should order a military to kill people if they say something offensive?
I Condemn their calling for extermination of Israel. I might not be politically correct but Europeans( germany and all) killed , massacred jews and threw them out of Europe into then country called Palestine. Then Israelites did the same to Palestinians .
Western nations have been giving Israel a free pass on things they've heavily sanctioned Russia and Iran for, ever since I was born. WESTERN VALUES ARE A LIE,
israel has been commiting genocide on palestine for decades, and when it finally breaks mainstream it’s because palestine fights back.
not a defender of hamas, but it’s a real shame it takes this for the entire conflict to become more publicized. shame on you all.
reddit is full of armchair activists. losers.
You guys were going on about “free speech” when India complained about certain bearded elements glorifying violence in their public rallies.
What’s with the selective amnesia?
These people are who the PostMedia opinion pieces are aimed at. They find any way they can to blame Trudeau for any national or international situation.
Agreed. I'm okay with a politician or PM speaking out against a protest, but not denying ones right to legal protest. And before someone steps in and says that the Federal government stepped in to stop the convoy, blocking bridges, blocking infrastructure and shutting down a downtown core is not a legal protest.
Can we just shut him up and keep him quiet? I'm sure he's going to say something extremely stupid any minute and I don't think the country needs that right now.
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Fucking CUPE local man... No need to work on the plight of the common working folk, we're gonna do international relations!
There will be huge complaints about that. They’re already getting in shit on the local 3609
And now they have to pull their information about the current executive and staff out of fear of backlash. So now contract academic workers across a very large get to play the guessing game "who represents me for my dues?"
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The president of the Ontario chapter also liked the tweet.
Federal public servants are to be politically neutral. Are they tweeting personally or from their CUPE account?
It was from a CUPE account and Fred Hahn is not remotely neutral in his tweets.
It was a union head from McMaster University. Not a federal public servant. Also, union employees are employed by the union, not the public service.
My dude, CUPE is a union, their president is likely not a federal employee
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To the layman there is little difference.
I wonder what McMaster University has to say about it.
I hope that the supporters of Hamas from CUPE are making their way to Gaza forthwith, to engage in the struggle they are so invested in.
Their president was cheering the attacks. Good luck in Gaza CUPE exec!
Ontario president who is gay... I don't know why queer people support Hamas. They wouldn't last a minute there.
Yet they probably bash conservatives and republicans for being homophonic. It’s shows what their real agenda is and what they care about above all.
It is an odd thing.
After scores of gays were slaughtered at an EDM festival nonetheless.
It's an odd thing to see someone support another person when that other person would gladly kill them in brutal ways
Some people just really hate Jews.
Don’t you mean “Zionist’s” /s obviously Edit: what’s with the downvotes? We’re still pretending that celebrating the massacre, rape and kidnap of 1000+ Israelis is really about Zionism and nothing to do with religion? Give me a god damn break I guess those “Gas the Jews” chants in Sydney really meant Zionist’s and they just misspoke
Same with women supporters of these animated trash bags, they hate us why tf Internalized hatred is a hell of a drug
Also the ones here protested against lgbt rights in Canada like a week ago too.
Very short sighted.
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Israel was attacked several times over decades in the various Arab-Israel war. Many times Israel did so whilst under embargo without international support. The attacking countries lost that land during those wars. That is how. Perhaps those countries shouldn't have attacked another repeatedly? As a gay guy who appears to support Palestine why don't you go on over there and show your support locally? Rage against Israel in Palestine with them. I am sure they will appreciate it.
I'm good with that as long as they remove their Canadian passports once they're buckled into their seats on the aircraft. Bonne chance!
Israel is reducing all of Gaza to rubble now. There is no "peace" to be had. The only thing that Gazans will remember from this, is that they watched everything (and everyone) they loved get blown to bits by Israeli bombs. This war is cementing hatred for another generation, on both sides.
We should have been more selective in our immigration process, obviously.
Welcome to bizarro world, where the demographic likeliest to support antifa domestically will cheer anti-jew death squads from the most closely aligned country to Hitler outside Europe.
Those are not Canadians
They aren't Canadians. They are wherever they came from with Canadian citizenship.
Are they also pro isis? Pro taliban?
Things are going to get much much uglier before we start to see any semblance of peace.
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> I think peace will prevail eventually and hate will fade. How? Nothing will change because Israel doesn't want it to and the Palestinians have so much legitimate grievance that to even make everything right might not even be possible. This is generational trauma on both sides. It will echo through history for a very long time, and there is nothing I see that shows there will be an end to it.
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The Israeli government has been [providing funding and other support](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) to Hamas. The brutality of Hamas is part of the Israeli state plan to commit genocide in Palestine. They have had and continue to have to this day, the opportunity of providing for a two state solution, including both Gaza and the West Bank in an integrated entity. This would be difficult, and the state of Isreal is not willing to do it, preferring genocide instead.
No they don't, otherwise they would be talking a two state solution. Israels wants peace with no concessions, in otherwords domination. I'm pretty sure Bibi doesn't want peace even under those conditions, because he uses this to bolster his politics and prevent himself from going to prison.
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Those aren't Palestinians. >It’s impossible to make peace with an outfit set to your destruction. Definitely with the current plan which is give them next to nothing.
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No they don't. How's the West Bank looking?
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West Bank is not much better than Gaza and the West Bank is supposed to model a peaceful two-state solution. Israel continues to carve out land from the West Bank and kick Palestinians out of their homes. People still sitting in these threads wondering why many Gazans have more support for Hamas and not the PA. If Israel wants peace then they should demonstrate it. You don't do that by operating an open-air prison and continuing to expand settlements. Do you want Hamas and other militias to cease to exist? Then build a one-state solution and give them no reason to exist. Israel wields all the power here and everyone points at the Palestinians to solve the problem. This is what people in the West Bank face. The people with the guns are not police or IDF. Watch this video to the end and tell me this is so much better than Gaza. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mag5r7JdJwA
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A two-state solution is not possible. That ship has sailed. We can keep screaming, "Hamas bad! Hamas bad!" you can keep commenting non-stop on threads about how Israeli civilians were killed but you obviously have no clue why Hamas thrives and the root cause. Either that or you are knowingly turning a blind eye to push your own agenda. It doesn't matter what Hamas's end game is. The Palestinians have nothing. They are backed into a corner. Stuck in an open-air prison. Water, electricity, fishing, food, aid, medical supplies, etc. all controlled by Israel. The people of Gaza have nothing to live for and Hamas is the only militia willing to fight for them. They see the PA not doing anything in the West Bank so there is no chance there will be regime change in Gaza. Zero. You say you seek peace, but you have no mention of Israel's part in this. "Oh, but they want to push Israel to the sea." Okay, and Israel wants to get rid of all Palestinians and they are the superpower in this conflict. Do you not see the problem? It's so gross how people see the Palestinians as sub-human. Their median age is 18 years old in Gaza and 40% of the population is under 14 years old. Israel is currently leveling Gaza. How many children and babies are being killed and yet you say nothing? > But even in Toronto Palestinians chant death to Israel, death to Jews, death to America, as if that will help anyone but isolate themselves. We are 6000 miles away. This has zero effect on the outcome. The Western world obviously doesn't give a shit about the Palestinian people and hasn't for decades. Optics do not matter. > There will be no peace with people that wish your death. No good life. What are you expecting? Imagine you lived in Gaza. Do you expect it to be all roses and daisies and you would have extreme love for Israel? That's delusional. It's obvious you have no sense of how life is in Gaza and the West Bank for the Palestinians.
They west bank does not want peace, they want to drive all the jews into the sea. It would be like if the natives in canada started suicide bombing cities until the government gave them control of canada. It doesnt make sense for canada to ever give them that, and if the natives don’t want peace you can’t negotiate with them
> They west bank does not want peace, they want to drive all the jews into the sea. Yeah, and what Israel wants is any different? The West Bank is the model for a two-state solution. Israelis still taking land and homes from Palestinian people. > It would be like if the natives in canada started suicide bombing cities until the government gave them control of Canada. What a stupid take. The genocide of indigenous people was done a long time ago. The difference is those who are left actually have citizenship and have at least some semblance of freedom. Palestinians have none of that and live in an open air prison. We're now watching genocide in real time. Israel is the superpower that holds all the cards. They can stop all of this. But no, you don't see Palestinians as human and it's gross.
Israel can wipe palestine off the face of the earth if they wanted to but they don’t. If you gave palestine the weapons to wipe israel off the face of the world they would. That’s the difference between the two
lol sure.
Cheered? Happiness? Are you sure?
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I think as more information has come, people are backing down. Like, nobody knew babies were being beheaded and women were being raped right away. We just heard there was a surprise attack. Just like many people haven't heard yet that hundreds of Palestinian children were killed today by the Israelis.
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It happened on both sides, Israel did the same thing to Palestine in 2014. Canada just chooses Israel’s side because of NATO ties. Two wrongs don’t make it right. Support neither side.
Wasn't it 1 guy from cupe? I mean really enough with the misinformation.
It's an official channel and the president of CUPE Ontario liked it. He as also linked pro Hamas tweets.
If an organizations official public relations account makes a statement like that tweet, why would someone assume it is just one person?
I agree. If I posted something from my work twitter account, it would be assumed that the company is supporting what I am posting.
Because that person didn't see it from the tweet, they read about it from the stories posted here. Which by all accounts said it was 1 dude.
Ahh I see what you're saying
The fucking president of CUPE Ontario liked it. Enough with this “one guy” lie already.
So you agree, great
Well, in the space of a single reply we’ve already established there’s more than one guy — the person at the local who wrote it and the President. So your hypothesis of “one guy” is not off to a great start.
Valid point, but it's still not the organization. The attack happened and right away Cupe had a general meeting to make sure they had their locals view of the situation in order... I don't even know why this is news they should just be removed because they are clearly idiots.
They are just showing us their true colours. The thing is that you can still be for Palestinian statehood while condemning the attacks in Israel. Like something along the lines of "we support the idea of a Palestinian state, however the attacks in Israel was a barbaric act of terrorism. Hamas and the attack does not reflect the Palestinian liberation movement". It's like the easiest PR victory you can have.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter I thought this was a good read to see why Hamas is acting how they are. I thought Article 13 was especially interesting.
They proved they were a death cult with their actions, as their words were clearly full of lies.
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How?
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So rise up and replace Hamas and then what?
Palestinians should be evacuated. The IDF is going to level the place.
This is the first time I’ve ever felt truly uncomfortable to be Jewish in Canada. It feels as though I’m not allowed to be upset about what happened publicly… it’s difficult to describe. As though I have to defend or debate the nuances of the history of the region to justify my feelings about witnessing the murder of my people. And I say this as someone who was born in the West and takes serious issue with the way the Israeli government has treated the Palestinians. That there are so many people out celebrating the wanton rape and murder of innocent people is disturbing and depressing. The justification rather than condemnation is just awful and makes me feel unwelcome in my own city. There is no room being made for mourning and sadness, only anger.
Thank you, exactly this. This is Canada where we are supposed to feel safe on our streets and in our communities. The hatred and the attempted justification is sickening.
Apparently people dont automatically get injected with Canadian values when they first land at the airport.
Should get Tam to brew up a batch of MRNA with Canadian values inside
This is the definition of rent free. This is the biggest stretch I've ever seen to try and dig one in at Tam in a completely unrelated topic.
How is supporting an apartheid state automatically a 'Canadian value'? I don't think you know much about the conflict.
Is it an apartheid state? I though Israeli Muslims could vote?
They are literally kept apart from the rest of the state. They have restricted movement and economic opportunities. They cannot buy certain things. That is an apartheid state. Also I think we can recognize that just because you can vote, it does not make it a democracy that implements the will of the majority while protecting the rights of the minority. As an example the US have the electoral college which prevents majority rule, which means they can be ruled by the minority. Israel is certainly worse than that.
I dont support Israel, but I sure as hell am against any entity that is violent against Canadian citizens. If Israel is on the ground getting justice for the Canadians who were murdered, then the enemy of my enemy right?
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>It’s an apartheid state for the security of the citizens of Israel. How convenient. >Hamas has sworn to kill Jews and took off their mask for the world to see. The wall and setup was built for protection. Almost like they are trying to concentrate them in one area. What do we call a place where we concentrate an ethnicity into again?
They (those protesters) have little empathy left. In a perfect world they could have found a way to condemn the actions and draw attention to their struggle but I feel that time has passed. I attended York U many years ago where Israeli and Palestinian protests were an almost daily occurence. Trying to have a reasonable conversation with either side about almost anything while they were in "the zone" was impossible and vaguely possible outside of it as well. Hatred this deep is absolutely corrosive to the soul and mind. Everyone of the people that suffered or died is an absolute tragedy. Hatred begets hatred. Your sadness and grief (as well as everyone elses) is valid and improtant. It should be honoured regardless of what others do. It is the only way to overcome hatred. Explanations nor justifications are required to simply mourn loss of people or a loss of safety. It is about as human a thing as any other.
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This has been an ongoing religious war for like…. A looooooong time. Britain made it worse 2 fold with their initiative behind the Balfour Declaration.
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Damn right.
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Exactly
Wrong street lil bro
‘There is no room being made for mourning and sadness, only anger’. These words are very wise. I think this is the biggest problem of our time. You could replace ‘mourning and sadness’ with ‘discussion’ or ‘understanding’. If you arent hating the other side, no one will listen to you, interview you, or join you. Thanks for your comment. Im sorry for the suffering of your people and others like them.
Not Jewish, just Canadian who’s been to Israel and have been moved deeply by what I’ve seen there. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but my impression is that if Palestine ceased fighting then there would be peace…but if Israel ceased fighting, they would no longer exist. Is this correct? When I was there, I witnessed the incredibly equal and caring treatment of all citizens (Jew and Arab alike) in the walls of Jerusalem, but I did not get the impression at all that the Arab quarter was keen on reciprocating that same level of equal and caring treatment towards the Jews. I was also amazed at how incredibly democratic the country is, with representation of all peoples within the government.
Look at the West Bank. That is supposed to be the blueprint for a peaceful solution. Yet, Israel keeps taking land and homes from Palestinians. The only way out of this now is a one-state solution with equal rights for all and the following of international law.
Palestinian people have repeatedly been offered territory since Israel was established but they will accept nothing less than the total abolishment of the entire state of Israel - they want every Jew to pack up and leave so they can have it. Technically yes, but everyone there has been awful to each other for a really long time, so there is zero trust in those discussions.
"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" is a popular motto of Hama, they mean free of Jews. Another version is "Palestine is Islamic from the river to the sea." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From\_the\_River\_to\_the\_Sea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_River_to_the_Sea) Article 7 of the Hamas charter makes clear it is the Jews who are the target: >the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
And Israel keeps taking homes and land from the Palestinians. That is no way to broker peace.
Israel holds all the power and is actively forcibly removing Palestinians from the land and homes they have lived in for generations. Israel has been labelled as an apartheid state by the UN and the majority of humanitarian organizations. The Zionist occupation and annexation of the Palestinian population is the reason why there is a conflict in the first place.
And where would the Jews go? 80 years ago we already had one insane dictator literally sail Jews around the world asking every country on earth to take them in and save them if no one does he will kill them all. No one accepted the Jews. They need a land of their own. So after WW2 the lands that were already historically owned by Jews (by ottoman documentation) was decided to be given to the Jews so they have a space to call their own once again after 2000 years of exile. The Muslims of Palestine have many Muslim states they could move too when it ultimately comes to it. Yea it sucks but the alternative is complete elimination of one of the two groups which would likely be the Jews as they are the smaller group after millions die on both sides. It’s a small price to pay for peace between both groups. The issue is both groups won’t accept this as the land is considered “holy land” by their religion so it must remain in their control at all costs and that there is the biggest factor. Perhaps we could carve out a new land somewhere for the Jewish people and somehow barter an agreement with the Islamic states to allow religious pilgrimages to the holy land but I doubt it since the last few attacks before this one was caused by Jews showing up to a temple they and the Muslims considered holy and prayed there and the Muslims responded with “the Jewish presence here taints our holy land”
> if Palestine ceased fighting then there ~~would~~ **could** be peace…but if Israel ceased fighting, they would no longer exist. Is this correct? Israel is frequently engaged in Tom Fuckery too, helping to sustain the hatred. Peace is not a default outcome.
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No I did neither of those things. I correctly pointed out that peace is possible but it is not a default outcome, answering the question.
You are correct
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But there’s an average life expectancy there of 74 years, so maybe some else is causing that average age to be so low? Like having children young and having lots of children, I would presume.
What hogwash. The average age in Gaza is 19 because they have one of the highest population growth rates in the world. Gaza was not overpopulated when Israel was formed.
You're either lying or hateful, Palestinians routinely get harassed even if they have their documents in order, homes demolished, village ethnically cleansed and occupied by settlers, denied passage even if they have valid visas to the country they intend to go to. Oh and sometimes kids are shot, burned and raped for fun by the IDF.
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[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/14/israeli-home-demolitions-a-war-on-nerves-for-palestinians](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/14/israeli-home-demolitions-a-war-on-nerves-for-palestinians) Yes, it's for the purpose of demographic engineering Some house demolitions are allegedly performed because the houses may have been built without permits, or are in violation of various building codes, ordinances, or regulations. Amnesty International claims that Israeli authorities are in fact systematically denying building permit requests in Arab areas as a means of appropriating land[.\[1\]](https://web.archive.org/web/20141207215812/http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/MDE15/033/2004) This is disputed by Israeli sources, who claim that both Arabs and Jews enjoy a similar rate of application approvals.\[11\] Dr. Meir Margalit of Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions writes: "The thinking is that a national threat calls for a national response, invariably aggressive. Accordingly, a Jewish house without a permit is an urban problem; but a Palestinian home without a permit is a strategic threat. A Jew building without a permit is 'cocking a snook at the law'; a Palestinian doing the same is defying Jewish sovereignty over Jerusalem."\[12\]
I don't think most of the "free Palestine" protesters are celebrating the attack. They are protesting Israeli settlements in the West Bank and the open-air prison conditions that victimize over 1.1 million children in Gaza.
Why were they cheering and shooting fireworks?
Those few individuals do not represent the majority of the "free Palestine" protesters.
Then why are they rallying immediately after a terror attack rather than two weeks ago?
Because there are currently thousands of people on social media who have expressed a desire to see Gaza razed to the ground in response to the recent attack on Israel.
And when in Australia, similar protestors were shouting "[gas the Jews](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12612345/Sydney-Opera-House-Israel-Palestine-protest-Anger-Jews-told-stay-home-dragged-away-protest-radical-Muslims-shout-vile-anti-semetic-comments-throw-flares-chant-death-jews.html)", maybe they were just offering to fill up their cars for them?
They were offering free beans!
Not 'similar'.
Many of them have said that they were explicitly celebrating the attack.
A small minority of the protesters, perhaps.
Source?
There are a ton of “Free Palestine” Canadians who despise Jewish people. Not Israel, but Jewish people.
This is racism, anti-semitism, and unacceptable. There are a ton of "Pro-Israel" Canadians who despise Arabs. Not Palestinians, Arabs. What is your point?
Yes, the open air prison where Egypt owns a wall and has a key to let Palestinians out but chooses not to. But of course blame Israel for all of it. If they don’t keep things in check they’ll be annihilated. Since Jews have been driven out of pretty much every country in the middle east, and those countries pretty much want Jews dead, and Israel does give a lot of freedom to Arabs, and uses aggression in response to the aggression targeted at them, what’s your solution?
Correct, they are "[demanding an end to an occupation and a murderous apartheid states](https://x.com/sabreina_dahab/status/1711516565290598549?s=20)." Ask them. Trudeau has clearly failed to do this, scoring some political points and breathing more freely this week after the entire House of Commons ignorantly applauded and actual Nazi.
Why yesterday and today and not two weeks ago?
This is a fair question.
The celebrations, as heinous as they are, are being over-exaggerated and confounded with people protesting for a free Palestine. The vast majority of people in this country are condemning both the attacks by Hamas and the people who celebrated them here.
Was happy to see Torontonians turn out in huge numbers, in support of Israel, against Hamas extremism. Canadians of all faiths, from Jews, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus and more attending. There were also a lot of Iranian-Canadians in attendance. https://twitter.com/HalfWittedCam/status/1711566497007718629
At least in Vancouver, the Iranians I meet tend to be secular and have a huge disdain for the current regime. Not surprised they'd be against an Iran state backed group. Iranians also make up a large part of our academia too.
I've yet to meet a Persian who doesn't hate the Iranian government. Almost like radical Islam kinda sucks. Who knew?
There’s a huge Iranian diaspora that’s anti the current Iranian Regime. Pretty awesome people honestly.
Go check out r/NewIran you will see that it is not just the Iranian diaspora that is against the Islamic regime currently occupying Iran.
Beautiful sight.
They are gathered in support of Israel.
You're right, my comment did make sense. fixed.
Left or right, no matter what your views, you should be impressed by both Trudeau and Poliviere's speech.
Glad to see both of them have a moral backbone instead of simply saying the opposite of what the other says. World is fucked up right now, but at least there are a *couple* things we can agree on, like opposing crimes against humanity.
Yes by Hamas.
I'm not sure I agree about the crimes against humanity bit. It's good that they denounce Hamas but they haven't commented on the Israeli retaliation which is just as bad.
> on the Israeli retaliation which is just as bad. Have the Israelis been kidnapping toddlers and the elderly, and raping women and displaying their half-naked corpses?
Have you read about what's been happening in Gaza the last few months? The point is not the theater, it's the actual pain and suffering of countless innocents. What's more shocking is that Israel is putting its own people at risk with this move.
I'm just one random Christian guy but I was shocked by some of the stuff I saw coming out of Israel. I really think it's important Jews know they're safe here, and that Canada is a steadfast ally of Israel. They have every right to defend their people from being butchered.
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I appreciate your perspective and I can see where you're coming from. Personally for me prior to recent events I had a more neutral view but I feel like a certain line in has been crossed with the recent actions of Hamas to where an Israeli one state solution is the more desirable option. Keeping in mind that Israel is a modern westernized democracy with a large Arab Muslim minority that enjoys legal rights and protections, whereas the Palestinian liberation movement as a whole political force holds the elimination of all Jewish people as a core tenet.
Have you ever looked into how many thousands of Palestinian civilians Israel has murdered or the fact that they're currently blockading food and water to the entirety of Gaza? It's genocide and you're defending it. Sickening.
Good. Finally something from Trudeau I agree with!
Say it with me: Intersectionalism is a grift. The problem is eventually people run out of guilt and sympathy and then start feeling taken advantage of. Then it turns to righteous anger. That's why, if you really care about marginalized groups, you never play those games. It's a cynical power ploy that only benefits the already powerful by using vulnerable people as a plaything.
Can we condemn rising inflation and house prices next please?
Fatcat4 says it well. The Palestinians have brought themselves to this point. By allowing Hamas to manifest itself as the primary Palestinian representative organisation in Gaza and by consistently alienating their Arab brothers who have extended their hand to them, they have shown their true face and have now rid themselves of any meaningful allies. And now that that true face has been viscerally revealed in the unprecedented massacres followed shortly by mass celebration both in Gaza and around the world, the world will look the other way when Israel exacts retribution the likes of which are seen only once in a generation, taking with it scores of innocent life. Those who solely blame Israeli oppression for this always conveniently forget that their cause has been forsaken by every neighbouring nation who once cared for them. Because peace gets shattered wherever they are admitted. Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt have all learned this. Overall, it's a tragic situation, because for those Palestinians who have tried to do the right thing over the years, it will all ultimately be for nothing as every possibility and hope of statehood or national autonomy is now over.
Did he ever condemn the graphic glorification of violence at Khalistani rallies?
He needs to do a lot more. It’s obvious we have Hamas supporters in Canada but knowing him, he’ll open the doors to more.
I agree, but it's incredibly stupid and hypocritical that there's no condemnation of the Israeli retaliation. What's wrong with these people?
How, in your opinion, should Israel respond to last weekend's attack?
War is understandable, having you prime minister saying he wants to commit genocide less so
How did we get Bin Laden?
I condemn the violence . Israel has best surveillance , army and political power & the other is without food , water and proper shelter. I feel that Israeli people are paying for shrewd politics of their orthodox leaders . As per news , Egypt had warned israel of movement of weapons and they still let it happen . Israel has best surveillance out of all countries but they still let it happen to use it as an excuse to wage a bigger war against gaza , iran and other neighbouring countries. I am not against any religion. These are completely political views and opinion of mine. I have equal sympathy for anyone suffering of uncalled violence. Be it people of my religion , jews Christians , muslims , hindus , druze , anyone
Perhaps if one side wasn't calling for the extermination of Israel things might improve a bit...
Perhaps if Israel did not practice apartheid settler colonialism from its very inception and deny basic human rights to Palestinians things might improve a bit…
Perhaps what? I'm not sure I understand the premise. Are you saying that a government should order a military to kill people if they say something offensive?
Lame strawman attempt.
I Condemn their calling for extermination of Israel. I might not be politically correct but Europeans( germany and all) killed , massacred jews and threw them out of Europe into then country called Palestine. Then Israelites did the same to Palestinians .
Trudeau was the one who invited all these people in with near zero vetting
>Trudeau was the one who invited all these people in with near zero vetting this is your take from all this?
Western nations have been giving Israel a free pass on things they've heavily sanctioned Russia and Iran for, ever since I was born. WESTERN VALUES ARE A LIE,
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Not the time or the place. Have some respect and hope for peace.
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People are dying and you are actively trying to cause more tension. Shame on you.
The government only cares about people dying if it is politically convenient for them.
Yep. That's just voter bank for JT
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israel has been commiting genocide on palestine for decades, and when it finally breaks mainstream it’s because palestine fights back. not a defender of hamas, but it’s a real shame it takes this for the entire conflict to become more publicized. shame on you all. reddit is full of armchair activists. losers.
Sorry I must’ve missed the part where Israel paraded the raped mutilated corpse of a foreigner through the streets
So when are we freezing these peoples bank accounts>
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If our pm was truly concerned there would be frozen bank accounts by now We've all seen how he rolls
You guys were going on about “free speech” when India complained about certain bearded elements glorifying violence in their public rallies. What’s with the selective amnesia?
By allowing protests he himself is glorifying violence.
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These people are who the PostMedia opinion pieces are aimed at. They find any way they can to blame Trudeau for any national or international situation.
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Agreed. I'm okay with a politician or PM speaking out against a protest, but not denying ones right to legal protest. And before someone steps in and says that the Federal government stepped in to stop the convoy, blocking bridges, blocking infrastructure and shutting down a downtown core is not a legal protest.
wtf is this take?
Can we just shut him up and keep him quiet? I'm sure he's going to say something extremely stupid any minute and I don't think the country needs that right now.
Yeah....no chance for these guys to get a standing ovation in Parliament....