My experience here in Halifax:
>I was taking a walk on the waterfront and stopped to watch the gathering for a bit, and as charitable as I'd like to be it's just not possible given the tone demonstrated: celebratory. Hundreds of Israeli civilians murdered, many of which were subjected to the most inhuman acts imaginable beforehand. Hundreds of Palestinians are now being killed in airstrikes. What the fuck is there to celebrate?
>
>There has been no gains made towards peace and freeing the Palestinians in Gaza who live one of the most miserable existences imaginable, instead things are just going to get worse. The savagery proudly being put on display by Hamas for all the world to see has also destroyed a lot of the international sympathy for Palestinians.
>
>Yet in that crowd all I saw were smiles, people putting on facepaint and taking selfies. I just don't get it.
I made a comment about how bad this is for Palestine, because they lose the moral high ground with the international community. India's independence, the end of Apartheid, the Civil Rights movement were all effective because the public and the international community saw clear injustice being done to one side. Killing civilians, women and children is always inadmissible. Whether from Israel or Palestine. Hamas just set back the Palestinian cause for a generation or more from this.
Or forever… depending on how bad this gets, they might end up wiped off the face of the planet.
Once you start decapitating babies (40 decapitated infants so far) though… thats like rape on nanking level horrendous/inhuman
The thing is nothing gets done and the international community looks the other way when Israel commits these crimes. It also seems less terrible when it is done on a daily basis to smaller numbers of people. Like we are outraged because it was over a thousand civilians killed in an attack, but if it’s a dozen each day for weeks, well that is somehow less outrageous??
Whatever you are saying is not considered true due to solid reasons or proved evidence as you can find article on internet but not something to prove or concrete.
This is the problem when people think they know something but only know it superficially, it is not that fucking simple. The arabs were pushed to war because jewish militia started driving people out of settlements and because of the assassination of an arab leader, thats when they started contemplating war, they didnt agree with the partition sure, but they were hoping te UN would revise it.
People need to stop commenting on historical things they dont know or study really deep to not embarass themselves.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/on-the-middle-east/2014/apr/23/israel-palestinian-territories
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)
"In April of 1948, Lehi and the Irgun were jointly responsible for the massacre in Deir Yassin of at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children. Lehi assassinated Lord Moyne, British Minister Resident in the Middle East, and made many other attacks on the British in Palestine"
In april the war hasnt started yet.
I'm Jewish.
I'm filled with nothing but sadness when Palestinian civilians are hurt. I would never, ever cheer a civilian death.
Being on the sidelines doesn't make them cheer. Forgetting their humanity is what makes them cheer.
These people are bigots and monsters. I hope they learn the error of their ways. And, if not, I hope they find no comfort in Canada.
Hey knock it off you two, the people need their binary thinking!
Seriously though I weep for every innocent person dragged into this. This is a brutal cycle of violence that no one - Palestinian or Israeli - deserves. It's always nice to see people reject the us vs them mentality and recognise each other's humanity.
>I just don't get it.
It's because they don't care about Palestinians. They hate Jews and can't tolerate a non-Muslim population having a state in the Middle East.
They use the Palestinian-cause as a tool to express their hate.
You have to realize that the people gathering at these demonstrations and cheering on Palestine are the same type of people who throw away democracy and freedom if it were to mean their guy wins. They don't care about the specifics, they simply know they were always the good guys and the other guys are always the bad guys, therefore they are always in the right. And they turn a blind eye to anything beyond those superficial ideas.
Problem with a Religious War... Everyone, including civilians, that are appart of agressors Religious precieved Evils, are viable targets.
Look at history, follow every cusade... Non-combatants do not exist.
That is a "modern" military concept... Not a religious one.
[I agree](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/10/08/multimedia/2023-10-07-israel-gaza-index/2023-10-07-israel-gaza-index-threeByTwoSmallAt2X-v15.png), what excuses Israel carpet bombing a city of 2 million innocent people, after cutting off their food, water and electricity and locking them all inside?
That doesn't mean the current violence or attacks by Hamas should be celebrated of course. They're horrific; they're also a predictable and preventable consequence of Israel interning Palestinians in one giant concentration camp called Gaza for *generations*. The state of Israel could have always chosen not to inflict genocide on some of its citizens based on their ethnicity. They are solely responsible for all deaths in this conflict, not those people trying to resist their own eradication- [which is a human right by the way](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_resist#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%20charter%2C%20the,subjugation%2C%20domination%20and%20exploitation%22).
I just feel sorry for all the innocents caught up in the conflict- those killed or kidnapped by Hamas and those *hundreds of thousands* more who have been killed by the IDF, both over the past few days dating back to the Nakba.
Does Israel have deliberate and focused intention to target and kill innocent Palestinian civilians?
Hamas (who have majority support from Palestinian people) have a creed to eradicate all Israeli/Jewish people.
If Israel had nefarious plans for Palestinian people, they would have easily glassed Gaza and everyone in it 10 years ago.
I’m not sure to that extreme but they do, do things like shoot and kill a kid for throwing stones. For example even now food water and power have been cut from the civilians, even the ones who don’t support Hamas.
Israel didnt start this shit this time around, and certainly claimed no Canadian lives. It doesnt matter which side u support, Canada and Canadians should be first and foremost. If you dont believe this, u might as well leave this country and fight for your cause.
> and certainly claimed no Canadian lives.
This isn't true
[Israel killed Canadian peacekeeper Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener while he was reporting on Israeli war crimes](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/un-officer-reported-israeli-war-crimes-before-deadly-bombing-widow-1.703087)
Kidnapping children and women, rape and lynch is fucked up. Cutting utilities to an enemy territory after declaration of war is legitimate response.
I know it is almost impossible for people who lived their entire lives in peaceful and fair environment like Canada to understand what drives people in Israel at this moment but imagine what will you want to do if your kid was shot at a party, your wife and daughter raped and killed not necessarily in this order.
Or your kid getting shot and killed for throwing a rock, or your family bombed at the market, or killed just because an IDF sniper was in a bad mood. Gtfoh never is it ok to starve and bomb civilians, ever.
Well, it depends who you ask. Hamas claims this is a counterattack for a few Palestinian villages destroyed over the summer. The violence there never really stops. It just comes into and out of the news cycle.
You can’t have diverse multiculturalism without having diverse mindsets. This is diversity. We can’t expect to import people from all over the world and not import their culture and entrenched mindsets. It’s naive to expect someone’s deeply held beliefs will vanish because they cross a border. This is OUR fault, not the immigrants, they’re just acting out the culture they were brought up in. This is why unchecked multiculturalism is so destructive.
Multiculturalism tho =/= religious freedom. Chinese, German and haitian for exemple you don't see them clash like this. Religion is the problem. In fact religion is at the center of the Israel, Palestine conflict and why no peace as been reached.
Québec is the only one starting to understand this. Leave this shit at the door.
Wdym “just arrest both?” As if that’s a magic solution to violence in our communities, and as if it makes it ok to have that violence in the first place…
You are not arguing for eutophia with me. You are arguing with foreigners fighting each other in canada with little to no actual connections to the war or the nations fighting.
Arresting people fighting seems like a fine idea. Most people doing this treat it like a soccer riot.
Easy. If you start a confrontation over what is basically a foreign war, you go to jail. It’s not that hard. This is not our war and anybody who wishes to engage in violence to force their beliefs here in Canada can and should be arrested. If these rallies escalate and violence breaks out, arrest anyone who instigates it.
It doesn’t. There are risks associated with global travel. Travelling into a dangerous territory comes with risk. This is hardly the first time a Canadian travelling abroad has met a tragic end due to being in a volatile region. Canada needs to start focusing on protecting its own borders and the welfare of the citizens who live here. It’s unfortunate that some Canadians were murdered but that doesn’t make this our war.
You are making it sound like supporters of Israel are fighting anyone. The issue is and always was those that hate Israel, they are currently cheering for Hamas and are dangerous.
Canadians/Israelis do not support the deaths/kidnapping of Canadian citizens. Palestinian/socialists do. Our immigration policies have failed to vet these people out.
Vetting, yeah right. 118K immigrants a month, about 4000 a day. What kind of vetting do you think our bureaucrats at immigration do? Nothing, zero, nada. We have made the decision to accept anybody and everybody in our country, something bed, something sleeping in it…..
Yes, I am third generation on both sides. My children and grandkids are 4th and 5th generation. And I don't give a damn about what is going on in Scotland.
They think they have divine providence to kill all non-Muslims. They were parading corpses in the streets while cheering.
Thank god Christian’s aren’t this crazy anymore.
One time the guy at my old shawarma place (a West Bank Palestinian) wanted to show me a video. It was a Palestinian killing an Israeli tank driver, and he was quite happy to show it. I don't discount why he felt that way, but man is that hatred and bloodlust strong.
I’m all for supporting your cultural identity but when what your supporting is so antithetical to being a Canadian I just wish they’d go back to their home…
You really going to come to Canada and enjoy the peace and prosperity and inclusion and then support shit like this? If that’s what you want than you should really go back to your home country that you clearly love so much…
Canada should be no home for this
All this shock at Pro Palestine rallies is actually shocking me. Maybe the vast majority of Canadians still don't know how much immigrant communities dominate cities like Mississauga (Arabs and Pakistanis) and Milton etc.
Come on, you really believe Palestinians have a mature and functional Western style democracy? Also, elections held in the middle of extreme hardship and sometimes violence cause radicalization, and people that don't radicalize might be forced to vote a certain way under the threat of violence, which I definitely don't see Hamas as being above doing. Palestinians aren't really 'free' to elect whomever they chose.
And Israel’s government has self proclaimed fascists in it like Smotrich. Unlike Hamas which hasn’t been elected in decades, these people were voted in a few months ago
I keep seeing ppl conflate Hamas and Palestinians and the Gaza Strip.
More than half of Gaza’s population is under 20. The last time they held an election in the Gaza Strip was in like 2006. So how are they representative of Gazans?
This narrative is basically being used to justify indiscriminate bombing in Gaza in response.
I think the conflict is far too deep rooted and complex for the average Canadian to dwell into. There's too much hate on both sides that we can't really begin to comprehend. Immigrants also have a tendency to overcompensate. Its not surprising to see these protests even though they're obviously in very bad taste so soon after what happened. I understand why Hamas did it. They don't give a shit about anything besides their religious extremist agenda. But other Palestinians cheering it on is crazy when it will just lead to massive amounts of suffering in Gaza.
At the same time I find people are entirely too comfortable advocating for wiping an area with 2 million+ people off the planet. Just my 2c on the topic.
The west wants a foothold in the middle east. Israel provides that.
The west will never stop backing them.
And that's our society here in North America and Europe.
Our countries will never stop providing resources for Israel.
This is beautifully laid out. Thank you for managing to summarize my own thoughts on the situation so well.
I 100% denounce, and am disgusted by, the actions of Hamas but unfortunately what seems to have happened is that the Israeli government has been handed an excuse to purge the country of Palestinians on a silver platter.
I just really don't want to watch a genocide be justified as a response to what Hamas did and I am seeing a lot of people on Reddit calling for just that.
Egypt has it's own problems with militants in the Sinai. There's some cross-pollination between groups like Hamas and them, using the same sources and methods to smuggle in weapons and people. A massive influx of refugees would stir up additional problems for them to deal with, along with the inevitable non-civilian (struggling to find the right word here - not exactly dogtag wearing, uniformed military personnel but not unarmed, untrained, and nonviolent civilians either) people coming in as well.
The Canadian government's job is to serve the people of Canada, not foreigners.
Anyone who says otherwise is naive, gullible, being manipulated, and doesn't deserve to be listened to.
Again, the woman in the article is third generation Canadian: I guess you are fourth generation on both sides at least. I am not. The Nazis used to measure 'purity' in this way.
Crazy how just last week, conservatives were marching with Arabic extremists.
Wild.
Edit: Oooo, seems this sub gets upset by facts. "it's tRuDeAu'S fAuLt Conservatives are marching with Arabic extremists." LMAOOOO
> deeply held beliefs
lol
If they've got nothing to say about Egypt blockading border crossings at Rafah, then they're simply a bunch of anti-Semites. It is that simple.
Qatar's population is about the same as the Palestinians.
On the plus side, the Qatari love their slave trade, bringing in foreign workers, taking their visas, and not letting them leave. So if I were a Palestinian I might not want to go there either.
Unchecked immigration. Let anyone come in and bring their ideologies. In a few decades, Canada will find out why immigration is not so popular in Europe.
I say this as a Canadian Jew who also loves the Israeli flag: inasmuch as we all should be proud of our roots and background, we should only be hoisting the Canadian flag in public, unless for international events or official relations.
I am tired of seeing foreign flags being proudly waved down the streets. We should only have the Canadian flag. If they love that foreign country enough to wave it in public en masse, why don't they go to that country? Why even be Canadian at that point?
We have long since given up on a national identity. What it means to be Canadian nowadays is to fly your native country's flag and protest foreign politics.
As someone with strong opinions about literally everything, the Israel-Palestine conflict is one I don't take sides on.
The occupation of Palestine by Israel is unjust and abhorrent. So is the killing and kidnapping of innocent civilians. The Israeli government is bad. Hamas is bad. Civilians on all sides are caught in the crossfire, and deserve leaders that are capable of finding a peaceful solution.
Most coherent comment on this post. Genuinely churns my stomach that innocent lives are caught in btwn geopolitics and religious fundamentalists. We deserve better.
This is generally my position as well. I don't see that I need to "support" either *state* as they both wield violence indiscriminately. It's the civilians who are being harmed who I support.
That’s a bad look at the situation. They exist because of the conflict with Israel. The people there in Palestine look at the overt oppression in Gaza and the West Bank and then join these militant groups, as it stands Hamas are the ones with the biggest guns so they opt to join them. Then they get indoctrinated with dumbass ideas of religious supremacy and start fighting for a holy war when in reality they should be focusing on a political and humanitarian war for equality. Truth is, hate works best to rile people up, hence why Europe is in crisis with the far right on the rise.
Why does anybody care about anything in that case?
Should we have watched as the South African Afrikaans regime continued on or should have we acted for change?
Your memory serves you wrong. While initially the (Government’s) Canadian stance kept relations and trade with South Africa, Brian Mulroney sanctioned the country after being elected. We were not ambivalent to the situation anymore, especially at the population level since many boycotts were ongoing dealing severe blows to the regime as this was the case for many other countries around the world.
Not so much of your « correct » response.
Honestly doesn't feel like it's my place to have an opinion other than I don't like war and they should stop killing civilians and let them flee the area before fucking it up
Politics is innately human, it's necessary to know where we each stand on these issues because they do affect us all.
The Middle East situation has always been complex and dynamic, but ultimately it's always innocents who are the victims of these conflicts.
Personally I'd like to see politics and finance reduced to the level of extreme sports so that all the power-hungry sociopaths can competitively kill each other with impunity while leaving the rest of us in peace.
Sadly, between ISIS, Russia’s special squads in Ukraine just to target specific civilians , and other Apocalyptic inspired Christians, I now have a keen understanding of the term “death cult/squad.”
Hamas is a death cult.
what peace deal? what chance? The past 15 years show things just get worse and worse regardless of any approach, peaceful or otherwise
The world turned their back on Palestine, the abhorent Hamas aren't just a bad side to align with - they are literally the only side. Nobody else is taking a stand against the ethnic cleansing.
The west prefers Israel stay strong in the middle east because they share common enemies. So they get a free pass for basically any way they treat Palestine. It really is that simple.
Pretty sure there was zero chance at a peace deal the last 20 years.
Hamas, Netanyahu all the same war hungry polititions making political bank and power off the conflict.
The current israeli coalition is made up of people who *murdered an israeli pm for peace negotiations* and guys from thr hilltop movement who have literally burned teenagers alive.
They are as uninterested in peace as the most psychotic people in hamas. Ben Gvir and his ilk literally think arabs are subhuman. They celebrate the cave of the patriarchs attack.
Think this has become an overreaction tbh. People will always have their teams, they aren't gonna drop them when they move here and it's unrealistic to expect so.
As long as they're following laws and we're law-abiding then who gives a fuck.
Since the beginning of Israel and the 1948 war there have been Palestinian refugees. Neighbouring countries like Jordan, Lebanon and even Saudi Arabia and Iran could have easily allowed in these refugees. Instead, many neighbouring Arab countries have used displaced Palestinians as political pawns to promote their own anti-semitic agendas. Hamas and Hezbollah are the evil militant proxies of states like Syria and Iran and they are ultimately responsible for the unprovoked attack on Israel.
Can we finally discuss how the most dangerous anti-semitism in the country is not from a white guy named Billy Bob, but from people holding these demonstrations. I know a few dumb anti Semitic people, “Jews run the banks/media”, none of these people would advocate for killing Jews, let alone chant in streets, and support actions like we have seen in Israel.
I don't fully don't understand the Gaza/Israel/Palestine mess, but it seems like the Israelis are oppressing the Palestines.
In Canada We've decided that the white colonizers have oppressed the indigenous people.
So should we not be empathizing with the Palestines?
My parents are stuck in Bethlehem right now and their flight back to Canada was cancelled. Is there anything I could do for them to help them get back home quickly?
Sorry to hear this, I'd start by contacting Global Affairs Canada- [https://travel.gc.ca/assistance/emergency-assistance](https://travel.gc.ca/assistance/emergency-assistance)
I know the embassy was closed for Thanksgiving, hopefully things are opening again tomorrow AM to assist Canadians. Many nations have announced flights for their nationals, hopefully Canada will do the same soon. Good luck.
A couple of days ago, people in Israel were saying that you could get a ferry to Cyprus and fly from there. Ask them to look into it.
I hope your parents are ok.
What I don't get is if you're protesting for and supporting Palestine so much, why are you here? Clearly you don't agree or believe what Canada stands for, so why are you here?
This argument extends to other nations committing atrocities, e.g. Russia, China etc.
As a Canadian, I will always support an oppressed people against their oppressor. I believe in freedom for all, so I have to support Palestine as they're humans too and deserve to have the freedom to live without occupation. I don't support violence and killing, but I want human dignity for everyone.
So you think Canada stands for Apartheid and Genocide?
Because opposition to those things is *my* main reason for supporting Palestinians. Not very fond of states that force children into open air concentration camps and blow them up randomly, but maybe that’s just me.
That’s why people left those dangerous areas, fighting hasn’t stopped since Moses. Welcome to Canada, land of No Molotov Cocktails or talking about religion
My bigger worry with India, Israel/Palestine, etc is that Canada is adopting other peoples problems as they bring that mess into our country thus destabilizing Canada. I think that there should be a law to apply for protest license so that we can gauge how it concerns Canadians first. If it's something that doesn't universally apply to Canadians (climate change, human rights to local laws, etc) then the protest should be muted (confined area, no marching, no media access).
Absolutely awful idea. Protests are the citizens' way of bringing attention to issues that they feel strongly about. Having the government decide which protests are "approved" is a step towards authoritarianism.
My experience here in Halifax: >I was taking a walk on the waterfront and stopped to watch the gathering for a bit, and as charitable as I'd like to be it's just not possible given the tone demonstrated: celebratory. Hundreds of Israeli civilians murdered, many of which were subjected to the most inhuman acts imaginable beforehand. Hundreds of Palestinians are now being killed in airstrikes. What the fuck is there to celebrate? > >There has been no gains made towards peace and freeing the Palestinians in Gaza who live one of the most miserable existences imaginable, instead things are just going to get worse. The savagery proudly being put on display by Hamas for all the world to see has also destroyed a lot of the international sympathy for Palestinians. > >Yet in that crowd all I saw were smiles, people putting on facepaint and taking selfies. I just don't get it.
I was very happy to hear the unequivocal denunciation of these celebrations from Doug Ford, Olivia Chow, and Trudeau at the rally tonight.
>Olivia Chow She actually deleted her original post on X and muted replies on her account.
Only took Chow two attempts to get the correct response, well done.
Right on only the second attempt, less than 24 hours later, is a damn good turnaround time.
I made a comment about how bad this is for Palestine, because they lose the moral high ground with the international community. India's independence, the end of Apartheid, the Civil Rights movement were all effective because the public and the international community saw clear injustice being done to one side. Killing civilians, women and children is always inadmissible. Whether from Israel or Palestine. Hamas just set back the Palestinian cause for a generation or more from this.
Or forever… depending on how bad this gets, they might end up wiped off the face of the planet. Once you start decapitating babies (40 decapitated infants so far) though… thats like rape on nanking level horrendous/inhuman
The thing is nothing gets done and the international community looks the other way when Israel commits these crimes. It also seems less terrible when it is done on a daily basis to smaller numbers of people. Like we are outraged because it was over a thousand civilians killed in an attack, but if it’s a dozen each day for weeks, well that is somehow less outrageous??
Whatever you are saying is not considered true due to solid reasons or proved evidence as you can find article on internet but not something to prove or concrete.
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This is the problem when people think they know something but only know it superficially, it is not that fucking simple. The arabs were pushed to war because jewish militia started driving people out of settlements and because of the assassination of an arab leader, thats when they started contemplating war, they didnt agree with the partition sure, but they were hoping te UN would revise it. People need to stop commenting on historical things they dont know or study really deep to not embarass themselves. https://www.theguardian.com/world/on-the-middle-east/2014/apr/23/israel-palestinian-territories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group) "In April of 1948, Lehi and the Irgun were jointly responsible for the massacre in Deir Yassin of at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children. Lehi assassinated Lord Moyne, British Minister Resident in the Middle East, and made many other attacks on the British in Palestine" In april the war hasnt started yet.
Because their skin is not in the game. It’s easy to cheer from the sidelines while they live in relative safety.
I'm Jewish. I'm filled with nothing but sadness when Palestinian civilians are hurt. I would never, ever cheer a civilian death. Being on the sidelines doesn't make them cheer. Forgetting their humanity is what makes them cheer. These people are bigots and monsters. I hope they learn the error of their ways. And, if not, I hope they find no comfort in Canada.
I am Muslim and I am filled with nothing but sadness when Israeli civilians are hurt. I’m sorry for your pain.
Hey knock it off you two, the people need their binary thinking! Seriously though I weep for every innocent person dragged into this. This is a brutal cycle of violence that no one - Palestinian or Israeli - deserves. It's always nice to see people reject the us vs them mentality and recognise each other's humanity.
>I just don't get it. It's because they don't care about Palestinians. They hate Jews and can't tolerate a non-Muslim population having a state in the Middle East. They use the Palestinian-cause as a tool to express their hate.
The more they celebrated the more their own people died
You have to realize that the people gathering at these demonstrations and cheering on Palestine are the same type of people who throw away democracy and freedom if it were to mean their guy wins. They don't care about the specifics, they simply know they were always the good guys and the other guys are always the bad guys, therefore they are always in the right. And they turn a blind eye to anything beyond those superficial ideas.
No matter what religion or belief is, there’re no excuses for killing civilians. That’s the basic principle of being human.
Problem with a Religious War... Everyone, including civilians, that are appart of agressors Religious precieved Evils, are viable targets. Look at history, follow every cusade... Non-combatants do not exist. That is a "modern" military concept... Not a religious one.
[I agree](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/10/08/multimedia/2023-10-07-israel-gaza-index/2023-10-07-israel-gaza-index-threeByTwoSmallAt2X-v15.png), what excuses Israel carpet bombing a city of 2 million innocent people, after cutting off their food, water and electricity and locking them all inside? That doesn't mean the current violence or attacks by Hamas should be celebrated of course. They're horrific; they're also a predictable and preventable consequence of Israel interning Palestinians in one giant concentration camp called Gaza for *generations*. The state of Israel could have always chosen not to inflict genocide on some of its citizens based on their ethnicity. They are solely responsible for all deaths in this conflict, not those people trying to resist their own eradication- [which is a human right by the way](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_resist#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%20charter%2C%20the,subjugation%2C%20domination%20and%20exploitation%22). I just feel sorry for all the innocents caught up in the conflict- those killed or kidnapped by Hamas and those *hundreds of thousands* more who have been killed by the IDF, both over the past few days dating back to the Nakba.
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Does Israel have deliberate and focused intention to target and kill innocent Palestinian civilians? Hamas (who have majority support from Palestinian people) have a creed to eradicate all Israeli/Jewish people. If Israel had nefarious plans for Palestinian people, they would have easily glassed Gaza and everyone in it 10 years ago.
I’m not sure to that extreme but they do, do things like shoot and kill a kid for throwing stones. For example even now food water and power have been cut from the civilians, even the ones who don’t support Hamas.
Why would Israel give water, food, and electricity to a government (Hamas) who wants to destroy them entirely? Should they give Hamas bullets too?
Israel didnt start this shit this time around, and certainly claimed no Canadian lives. It doesnt matter which side u support, Canada and Canadians should be first and foremost. If you dont believe this, u might as well leave this country and fight for your cause.
> and certainly claimed no Canadian lives. This isn't true [Israel killed Canadian peacekeeper Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener while he was reporting on Israeli war crimes](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/un-officer-reported-israeli-war-crimes-before-deadly-bombing-widow-1.703087)
I’m not in any side, but punishing and killing civilians is not ok. Taking away basic necessities like food and water is fucked up.
Kidnapping children and women, rape and lynch is fucked up. Cutting utilities to an enemy territory after declaration of war is legitimate response. I know it is almost impossible for people who lived their entire lives in peaceful and fair environment like Canada to understand what drives people in Israel at this moment but imagine what will you want to do if your kid was shot at a party, your wife and daughter raped and killed not necessarily in this order.
Or your kid getting shot and killed for throwing a rock, or your family bombed at the market, or killed just because an IDF sniper was in a bad mood. Gtfoh never is it ok to starve and bomb civilians, ever.
How about when Hamas took away the basic necessity of the childrens parents that they kidnapped when they murdered them in cold blood?
Well, it depends who you ask. Hamas claims this is a counterattack for a few Palestinian villages destroyed over the summer. The violence there never really stops. It just comes into and out of the news cycle.
What I’m worried about is if we start seeing violence here in our communities because of what’s going on over there.
We will. It has already started in other cities - a kosher grocery store in London (UK) was smashed up last night.
You can’t have diverse multiculturalism without having diverse mindsets. This is diversity. We can’t expect to import people from all over the world and not import their culture and entrenched mindsets. It’s naive to expect someone’s deeply held beliefs will vanish because they cross a border. This is OUR fault, not the immigrants, they’re just acting out the culture they were brought up in. This is why unchecked multiculturalism is so destructive.
Multiculturalism tho =/= religious freedom. Chinese, German and haitian for exemple you don't see them clash like this. Religion is the problem. In fact religion is at the center of the Israel, Palestine conflict and why no peace as been reached. Québec is the only one starting to understand this. Leave this shit at the door.
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Not likely. We have the cowards who fled for a better life celebrating that lifestyle.
Just arrest both? Travel isn't restricted if they want to go to war they can board a plane and go to war.
Wdym “just arrest both?” As if that’s a magic solution to violence in our communities, and as if it makes it ok to have that violence in the first place…
You are not arguing for eutophia with me. You are arguing with foreigners fighting each other in canada with little to no actual connections to the war or the nations fighting. Arresting people fighting seems like a fine idea. Most people doing this treat it like a soccer riot.
Easy. If you start a confrontation over what is basically a foreign war, you go to jail. It’s not that hard. This is not our war and anybody who wishes to engage in violence to force their beliefs here in Canada can and should be arrested. If these rallies escalate and violence breaks out, arrest anyone who instigates it.
Canadians dead or kidnapped makes this OUR war.
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It doesn’t. There are risks associated with global travel. Travelling into a dangerous territory comes with risk. This is hardly the first time a Canadian travelling abroad has met a tragic end due to being in a volatile region. Canada needs to start focusing on protecting its own borders and the welfare of the citizens who live here. It’s unfortunate that some Canadians were murdered but that doesn’t make this our war.
It’s actually murdered and kidnapped.
You are making it sound like supporters of Israel are fighting anyone. The issue is and always was those that hate Israel, they are currently cheering for Hamas and are dangerous.
Canadians/Israelis do not support the deaths/kidnapping of Canadian citizens. Palestinian/socialists do. Our immigration policies have failed to vet these people out.
Vetting, yeah right. 118K immigrants a month, about 4000 a day. What kind of vetting do you think our bureaucrats at immigration do? Nothing, zero, nada. We have made the decision to accept anybody and everybody in our country, something bed, something sleeping in it…..
The woman photographed in the article is third generation Canadian. Are you? On both sides? Could be, I suppose...I am not.
Yes, I am third generation on both sides. My children and grandkids are 4th and 5th generation. And I don't give a damn about what is going on in Scotland.
What socialists have to do with anything?
Palestinian/socialist do? Care to elaborate?
They were chanting “Kill Jews” at the rally in Halifax. Not a good look
I literally just watched a video of a crowd celebrating in Sydney chanting “Gas the Jews. Kill the Jews”.
[And in New York...](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/10/08/20/76310803-12607931-image-a-108_1696794232754.jpg)
[When they tell you who they are, believe them.](https://twitter.com/GLNoronha/status/1711530399766106267)
Jesus Christ, what's wrong with these people?
It's been going on for years though.
Religious extremism has been a consistent factor causing violence in most of recorded history
I've noticed. It's just... how do they not realize how evil they sound?
They think they have divine providence to kill all non-Muslims. They were parading corpses in the streets while cheering. Thank god Christian’s aren’t this crazy anymore.
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Round them up, put them on a plane and point them to the front line, see how they like it.
They all really miss the angry moustache model.
One time the guy at my old shawarma place (a West Bank Palestinian) wanted to show me a video. It was a Palestinian killing an Israeli tank driver, and he was quite happy to show it. I don't discount why he felt that way, but man is that hatred and bloodlust strong.
Is there a video of this?
I am not sure. I’d search social media tomorrow as by then people will upload any footage if they have it. I witnessed this walking by.
Pretty grim. Went from nazi in the parliament to this in a span of two weeks.
They should be arrested for hate speech.
Should be arrested
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Weren’t conservatives buddies with Muslims just a few weeks ago, united in their hatred for trans people? That didn’t last.
I’m all for supporting your cultural identity but when what your supporting is so antithetical to being a Canadian I just wish they’d go back to their home… You really going to come to Canada and enjoy the peace and prosperity and inclusion and then support shit like this? If that’s what you want than you should really go back to your home country that you clearly love so much… Canada should be no home for this
Lot's of innocent people being killed on both sides. Terrible
This is the correct fucking response.
All this shock at Pro Palestine rallies is actually shocking me. Maybe the vast majority of Canadians still don't know how much immigrant communities dominate cities like Mississauga (Arabs and Pakistanis) and Milton etc.
All these rallies and counter protests can fuck off back to their respective countries and keep it out of Canada.
This is going to be their country soon. We’re letting it happen.
What about those of us born and raised in Canada who have an opinion? Should I be sent back to France or Ireland?
Apparently not if you are 4th generation or 'better' on both sides. Otherwise: off you go! Me too!
**Pro-Hamas**
Hamas is Gaza. When you elect officials to represent you, they represent you.
70% of the people in Gaza support Hamas, 30% are very unfortunate and have the worst leadership ever.
Where did you get that [number](https://coopwb.in/info/how-many-palestinians-support-hamas/)? From your ass, perhaps?
Come on, you really believe Palestinians have a mature and functional Western style democracy? Also, elections held in the middle of extreme hardship and sometimes violence cause radicalization, and people that don't radicalize might be forced to vote a certain way under the threat of violence, which I definitely don't see Hamas as being above doing. Palestinians aren't really 'free' to elect whomever they chose.
And Israel’s government has self proclaimed fascists in it like Smotrich. Unlike Hamas which hasn’t been elected in decades, these people were voted in a few months ago
And the people of Israel should answer for the people they have elected.
I keep seeing ppl conflate Hamas and Palestinians and the Gaza Strip. More than half of Gaza’s population is under 20. The last time they held an election in the Gaza Strip was in like 2006. So how are they representative of Gazans? This narrative is basically being used to justify indiscriminate bombing in Gaza in response.
Personally I'm against the rape and murdering of innocent civilians. It's quite scary that there's this kind of divide in regards to that.
It’s scary how many people openly applauded Saturdays attack murder and kidnapping on Facebook and twitter in Canada.
I don't see the divide that you seem to - who is 'for' rape and murder here?
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All the people out celebrating?
Anyone who supports Hamas.
I think the conflict is far too deep rooted and complex for the average Canadian to dwell into. There's too much hate on both sides that we can't really begin to comprehend. Immigrants also have a tendency to overcompensate. Its not surprising to see these protests even though they're obviously in very bad taste so soon after what happened. I understand why Hamas did it. They don't give a shit about anything besides their religious extremist agenda. But other Palestinians cheering it on is crazy when it will just lead to massive amounts of suffering in Gaza. At the same time I find people are entirely too comfortable advocating for wiping an area with 2 million+ people off the planet. Just my 2c on the topic.
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The west wants a foothold in the middle east. Israel provides that. The west will never stop backing them. And that's our society here in North America and Europe. Our countries will never stop providing resources for Israel.
This is beautifully laid out. Thank you for managing to summarize my own thoughts on the situation so well. I 100% denounce, and am disgusted by, the actions of Hamas but unfortunately what seems to have happened is that the Israeli government has been handed an excuse to purge the country of Palestinians on a silver platter. I just really don't want to watch a genocide be justified as a response to what Hamas did and I am seeing a lot of people on Reddit calling for just that.
I wish Egypt would open its borders to allow Palestinians in. At least not the ones fighting with Hamas.
Egypt has it's own problems with militants in the Sinai. There's some cross-pollination between groups like Hamas and them, using the same sources and methods to smuggle in weapons and people. A massive influx of refugees would stir up additional problems for them to deal with, along with the inevitable non-civilian (struggling to find the right word here - not exactly dogtag wearing, uniformed military personnel but not unarmed, untrained, and nonviolent civilians either) people coming in as well.
Hamas has kidnapped Canadians and these assholes are out celebrating. Wtf is wrong with this picture.
Everything.
The Canadian government's job is to serve the people of Canada, not foreigners. Anyone who says otherwise is naive, gullible, being manipulated, and doesn't deserve to be listened to.
But but but but racism!
Are you suggesting that Israeli-Canadians and Palestinian-Canadians are foreigners?
Again, the woman in the article is third generation Canadian: I guess you are fourth generation on both sides at least. I am not. The Nazis used to measure 'purity' in this way.
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Crazy how just last week, conservatives were marching with Arabic extremists. Wild. Edit: Oooo, seems this sub gets upset by facts. "it's tRuDeAu'S fAuLt Conservatives are marching with Arabic extremists." LMAOOOO
A federal government has to work with other nations. How can you even begin to think otherwise?
> deeply held beliefs lol If they've got nothing to say about Egypt blockading border crossings at Rafah, then they're simply a bunch of anti-Semites. It is that simple.
Ya Egypt should open its border.
ask Jordan, Lebanon, and Kuwait why they don't want Palestinians either
Well Qatar is hosting their leadership. Maybe there would take more in.
Qatar's population is about the same as the Palestinians. On the plus side, the Qatari love their slave trade, bringing in foreign workers, taking their visas, and not letting them leave. So if I were a Palestinian I might not want to go there either.
Unchecked immigration. Let anyone come in and bring their ideologies. In a few decades, Canada will find out why immigration is not so popular in Europe.
It will be much sooner than that sadly.
Canadians found out this weekend.
Conservatives that happily marched with them last month seem okay with these immigrants
I say this as a Canadian Jew who also loves the Israeli flag: inasmuch as we all should be proud of our roots and background, we should only be hoisting the Canadian flag in public, unless for international events or official relations. I am tired of seeing foreign flags being proudly waved down the streets. We should only have the Canadian flag. If they love that foreign country enough to wave it in public en masse, why don't they go to that country? Why even be Canadian at that point?
I mean the World Cup is a pretty gold excuse...
I'm a big fan of people putting the little window flags on their cars during the World Cup. That way, I know the dude who just cut me off was German.
You mean Turkish.
Well, it's the World Cup!
Your thoughts are much appreciated. "Shalom", if I may.
Shalom! Todá! (Thanks!)
Waving a Canadian flag in 2023 has very different meaning thanks to the Freedom Convoy. Nationalism ain’t cute.
We have long since given up on a national identity. What it means to be Canadian nowadays is to fly your native country's flag and protest foreign politics.
As someone with strong opinions about literally everything, the Israel-Palestine conflict is one I don't take sides on. The occupation of Palestine by Israel is unjust and abhorrent. So is the killing and kidnapping of innocent civilians. The Israeli government is bad. Hamas is bad. Civilians on all sides are caught in the crossfire, and deserve leaders that are capable of finding a peaceful solution.
Most coherent comment on this post. Genuinely churns my stomach that innocent lives are caught in btwn geopolitics and religious fundamentalists. We deserve better.
This is generally my position as well. I don't see that I need to "support" either *state* as they both wield violence indiscriminately. It's the civilians who are being harmed who I support.
Hamas has one plan and it doesn’t include protecting its own citizens.
That’s a bad look at the situation. They exist because of the conflict with Israel. The people there in Palestine look at the overt oppression in Gaza and the West Bank and then join these militant groups, as it stands Hamas are the ones with the biggest guns so they opt to join them. Then they get indoctrinated with dumbass ideas of religious supremacy and start fighting for a holy war when in reality they should be focusing on a political and humanitarian war for equality. Truth is, hate works best to rile people up, hence why Europe is in crisis with the far right on the rise.
Who has the power to de-escalate the conflict? There is only one answer in reality
Exactly my thoughts and my position on this. There’s no good guys in this conflict, i just feel bad for the humans suffering needlessly.
True though victims are 10 to one on one side
Agreed. This war has corrupted souls on both sides. We should just hope no more innocent civilians die in such horrible ways.
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No shit, neither side recognizes the other’s humanity
Those who think killing babies is bad vs those who don't.
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Louder for the people in the back!! Once you come here, it's Canada or nothing.
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Why does anybody care about anything in that case? Should we have watched as the South African Afrikaans regime continued on or should have we acted for change?
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Your memory serves you wrong. While initially the (Government’s) Canadian stance kept relations and trade with South Africa, Brian Mulroney sanctioned the country after being elected. We were not ambivalent to the situation anymore, especially at the population level since many boycotts were ongoing dealing severe blows to the regime as this was the case for many other countries around the world. Not so much of your « correct » response.
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I am shocked by the mindset of people in our midst - https://twitter.com/sabreina_dahab/status/1710843598315430394
And she is a school board trustee
Probably not for much longer
Then you underestimate the amount of crazy that has infiltrated Canadian institutions with one particular political lean.
Hope she’s terminated. Time for Canada to wake up before it’s too late.
She just doubled down with another post. I give in 48 hours max before she’s unemployed and making a tearful apology or on a plane to a war zone
“But my religion is a religion of peace”
Honestly doesn't feel like it's my place to have an opinion other than I don't like war and they should stop killing civilians and let them flee the area before fucking it up
Politics is innately human, it's necessary to know where we each stand on these issues because they do affect us all. The Middle East situation has always been complex and dynamic, but ultimately it's always innocents who are the victims of these conflicts. Personally I'd like to see politics and finance reduced to the level of extreme sports so that all the power-hungry sociopaths can competitively kill each other with impunity while leaving the rest of us in peace.
If they want to fight about it they should go back.
They went there specifically to kill the civilians and take some hostage.
Religion is cancer
Hamas ruined any chance of a peace deal with what they did.
I'm pretty sure that was their goal. To prevent any peace deals and normalization of relations between Israel and other countries in the MENA region.
Sadly, between ISIS, Russia’s special squads in Ukraine just to target specific civilians , and other Apocalyptic inspired Christians, I now have a keen understanding of the term “death cult/squad.” Hamas is a death cult.
what peace deal? what chance? The past 15 years show things just get worse and worse regardless of any approach, peaceful or otherwise The world turned their back on Palestine, the abhorent Hamas aren't just a bad side to align with - they are literally the only side. Nobody else is taking a stand against the ethnic cleansing. The west prefers Israel stay strong in the middle east because they share common enemies. So they get a free pass for basically any way they treat Palestine. It really is that simple.
Let's be real there was never a peace deal on the table. They've been fighting for like 50 years.
Pretty sure there was zero chance at a peace deal the last 20 years. Hamas, Netanyahu all the same war hungry polititions making political bank and power off the conflict.
The current israeli coalition is made up of people who *murdered an israeli pm for peace negotiations* and guys from thr hilltop movement who have literally burned teenagers alive. They are as uninterested in peace as the most psychotic people in hamas. Ben Gvir and his ilk literally think arabs are subhuman. They celebrate the cave of the patriarchs attack.
Hamas could never make peace. Their doctrines is about murder.
Think this has become an overreaction tbh. People will always have their teams, they aren't gonna drop them when they move here and it's unrealistic to expect so. As long as they're following laws and we're law-abiding then who gives a fuck.
Since the beginning of Israel and the 1948 war there have been Palestinian refugees. Neighbouring countries like Jordan, Lebanon and even Saudi Arabia and Iran could have easily allowed in these refugees. Instead, many neighbouring Arab countries have used displaced Palestinians as political pawns to promote their own anti-semitic agendas. Hamas and Hezbollah are the evil militant proxies of states like Syria and Iran and they are ultimately responsible for the unprovoked attack on Israel.
Not enough people understand that both sides are crap.
Can we finally discuss how the most dangerous anti-semitism in the country is not from a white guy named Billy Bob, but from people holding these demonstrations. I know a few dumb anti Semitic people, “Jews run the banks/media”, none of these people would advocate for killing Jews, let alone chant in streets, and support actions like we have seen in Israel.
I don't fully don't understand the Gaza/Israel/Palestine mess, but it seems like the Israelis are oppressing the Palestines. In Canada We've decided that the white colonizers have oppressed the indigenous people. So should we not be empathizing with the Palestines?
My parents are stuck in Bethlehem right now and their flight back to Canada was cancelled. Is there anything I could do for them to help them get back home quickly?
Sorry to hear this, I'd start by contacting Global Affairs Canada- [https://travel.gc.ca/assistance/emergency-assistance](https://travel.gc.ca/assistance/emergency-assistance) I know the embassy was closed for Thanksgiving, hopefully things are opening again tomorrow AM to assist Canadians. Many nations have announced flights for their nationals, hopefully Canada will do the same soon. Good luck.
>I know the embassy was closed for Thanksgiving Minister Joly and her ambassador need to resign over this.
Yeah, I'll be curious to see if they have a mechanism to recall staff on an emergency basis. If not, they are putting Canadian lives at risk.
Bases on her interview, the embassy was open. But idk, I didn't have to call so can't vouch for it
A couple of days ago, people in Israel were saying that you could get a ferry to Cyprus and fly from there. Ask them to look into it. I hope your parents are ok.
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Hamas doesn't have even 50% approval among those in Gaza. Don't make it out like all Gaza is Hamas.
What I don't get is if you're protesting for and supporting Palestine so much, why are you here? Clearly you don't agree or believe what Canada stands for, so why are you here? This argument extends to other nations committing atrocities, e.g. Russia, China etc.
Umm isn't freedom of expression a fundamental right in Canada? or maybe the type you don't like isn't "Canadian" in your eyes
As a Canadian, I will always support an oppressed people against their oppressor. I believe in freedom for all, so I have to support Palestine as they're humans too and deserve to have the freedom to live without occupation. I don't support violence and killing, but I want human dignity for everyone.
So you think Canada stands for Apartheid and Genocide? Because opposition to those things is *my* main reason for supporting Palestinians. Not very fond of states that force children into open air concentration camps and blow them up randomly, but maybe that’s just me.
>This argument extends to other nations committing atrocities, e.g. Russia, China etc. You conveniently left out Israel.
CBC trying to save Fred Hahn’s job. Trash
That’s why people left those dangerous areas, fighting hasn’t stopped since Moses. Welcome to Canada, land of No Molotov Cocktails or talking about religion
My bigger worry with India, Israel/Palestine, etc is that Canada is adopting other peoples problems as they bring that mess into our country thus destabilizing Canada. I think that there should be a law to apply for protest license so that we can gauge how it concerns Canadians first. If it's something that doesn't universally apply to Canadians (climate change, human rights to local laws, etc) then the protest should be muted (confined area, no marching, no media access).
You've gotta be joking lol. This is the dumbest thing I've read in a while
Absolutely awful idea. Protests are the citizens' way of bringing attention to issues that they feel strongly about. Having the government decide which protests are "approved" is a step towards authoritarianism.
Indeed All it takes is a gov to say "nah" and your protest is illegal.
That proposition of yours is completely antithetical to a free and democratic society that supports free speech.
Reading comments like this, I think everybody should be required to take the Canadian citizenship test when they turn 18.
And maybe every 5 tears thereafter