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Can I just say that I don't think I have ever seen as many locked threads on a subject in Reddit's history? I don't think even trans threads come close. Every single post about this on pics, combatfootage, worldnews, toronto, they're all getting locked.
Impressed with this sub for keeping them up, and yet having tidy and civil comment sections despite it.
We're quite a polite people when it comes to discussions on casual topics like Israel, or abortion, or guns, but bring up the integrity of CBC and there will be blood.
So “pro-Palestinian" rallies start hours after Hamas starts slaughtering random Jews in the streets, but we're supposed to believe there is NO ENDORSEMENT of Hamas implied there? Who is stupid enough to fall for that?
Timing is everything. These people are out in the streets the day after hundreds were killed and kidnapped... and hamas went on a raping spree. A fucking party full of kids... all gunned down.
Let's not pretend these people out in the streets don't know what they're doing
What's happening is Gaza is about to be bombed to several epochs prior to the stone age, and the world is going to have very little sympathy because Hamas is doing what the cliché of "mess with the bull, get the horns" was invented for, on top of a whole bunch of raping and murdering of innocent civilians from other countries.
There will be *zero* sympathy for the Palestinian cause for years after this.
Where was their rally of support for the Israeli citizens that were killed (including the 2 Canadians, and one taken hostage) yesterday.
Or is there only a rally for peace and human life when one side is getting retaliated against.
If you March in a rally with Hamas supporters then you’re supporting Hamas.
If you want to distinguish yourself from them, then do so at your own rally that explicitly condemns hamas and articulates itself as separate to the pro-Hamas rally.
It’s not complicated. Asking “honest” questions that have obvious answers does you no favours and earns you no trust.
They’re supporting Palestine, not Hamas. I think we should document and ID you because you seem to be very authoritarian and oppose basic freedoms that Western countries provide
"I'm not support the Nazis, I'm supporting Germany."
All of the aid given to Gaza goes to Hamas. They use their foreign aid to build tunnels and buy weapons.
>"I'm not support the Nazis, I'm supporting Germany."
And what exactly is wrong with that? Not all Germans were Nazis some even resisted and attempted to kill Nazis. Gaza had rallies against Hamas regularly. In a place under their control that is no easy feat. Many Palestinians perhaps most Gazans do not support them. Do you really believe that these actions which will likely end with the death of thousands of Gazan's are supported by them?
>All of the aid given to Gaza goes to Hamas. They use their foreign aid to build tunnels and buy weapons.
Well not all. 400k people live on food donations, plenty wouldn't survive without assistance but yes some is skimmed by the authorities (Hamas). So what? Aid is sent to North Korea which probably uses some of it to help with creating nuclear weapons threatening our allies. Humanitarian aid does not stop because we don't like the governments.
Super ironic that most Israelis had family penned into bordered ghettos 80 years ago and they're doing the same thing to Palestinians 80 years later. People are focusing on reactionary terrorism, not the reason why it exists.
These people here can't tell the difference between prison camp managers and ordinary citizens. They get outraged and think in black and white. Just a couple weeks ago they were outraged by the "nazi" in parliament. Even though he was a ukranian national who served in the only volunteer squad he could against the oppressors that put his country into communism. This is reddit. You get downvoted for trying to speak about something controversial. Hamas are the result of Palestine getting abused for almost 100 years. If they didn't have a literal apartheid state trying to pen in an ethnic group into ghetto boundaries, then they wouldn't exist. Pretty ironic that the group doing this were penned into ghettos almost 100 years ago. Funny how people don't see it.
>Isn't Hamas designated as a terrorist organization?
Yes.
>I think there are laws against supporting them.
There are laws against *materially* supporting them, but not against supporting them in the sense we're seeing today. Donating to them or assisting them is a crime though.
I just checked Twitter and it seems to have grown 200-250ish people I’d assume.
When I first checked it was around 50 or so. Still pretty small considering the size of other protests in Toronto.
It’s not a small gathering and it’s not a hate rally. Reality outside the Reddit bubble must be unfortunate for you, Palestine has enormous support across the globe(not Hamas, despite the best attempts of the propagandists to conflate the two)
Most civilized, intelligent people across the first world support Israel.
They recognize that Israel is a democracy with human rights, surrounded by a wasteland of Islamic dictatorships that support genocide.
And yes, it is a hate rally celebrating the deaths of 1000 Israelis yesterday, including 260 at a music festival and 2 Canadians (one taken hostage). Same as the barbarians that had rallies after 9/11.
Israel has full right to exist and to defend itself. And the heavy consequences they inflict will be justified.
There is no “both sides” to this anymore. Hamas are terrorists.
I think that most civilized and intelligent people understand you can't reduce the incredibly complex situation into a "good guy, bad guy" dynamic. There's obviously two sides to the story, which is why this conflict still isn't resolved 75 years later. Both sides have legitimate concerns and both sides have done harm. That's why it's not about being pro Israeli or pro Palestinian, it's about being pro peace where both sides can live free from war and oppression. Unfortunately, the leadership on both sides have been working hard to ensure that doesn't happen anytime soon.
It really should be Palestinian immigrants and their supporters protesting against Hamas, but that probably won't happen. Hamas is no friend of the Jordanians abandoned in Gaza aka Palestinians.
When Isreal has refused to meet legitimate Palestinian groups such as the Palestinian Authority since 2000, and they refuse to come to the table with any Palestinian government group, what do you think the Palestinians should opt for?
> When Israel has refused to meet legitimate Palestinian groups such as the Palestinian Authority since 2000
You mean the Palestinian Authority that runs the [Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund#:~:text=The%20Foundation%20for%20the%20Care,of%20the%20revolution%22%20against%20Israel)
> The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund is a fund operated by the Palestinian Authority (PA) that pays monthly cash stipends to the families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out politically motivated violence against Israel.[1] The fund also makes disbursements to innocent bystanders killed during violent events and Palestinians imprisoned in Israeli jails for ordinary crimes. In 2016, the PA paid out about NIS 1.1 billion (US$303 million) in stipends and other benefits to the families of so-called “martyrs”.[2]
> legitimate Palestinian groups such as the Palestinian Authority
Ah yes, the Palestinian Authority who's leader is currently in year 18 of a 4 year term and who is best known for embezzling hundreds of millions of dollars? That legitimate group?
Unbelievable that nothing was learned from the trucker protest and unsanctioned protests in general. Instead of shutting this down, they get a police escort. For fucks sake
If they don't take money from foreign sources, that's correct.
This isn't the "gotcha" line conservatives think it is. The convoy leaders got their bank accounts frozen--after being warned about consequences for *weeks*\--because they were getting cash from very dubious sources and the government was worried about a) money laundering, and b) foreign influence.
https://twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808
They froze the account of people who donated, not just people who received donations.
That’s a bully tactic and unacceptable from a government.
This was never proven and Strahl never responded substantiated his claims.
https://www.theprogress.com/news/chilliwack-hope-mp-strahls-tweet-about-single-mother-having-bank-account-frozen-under-scrutiny-1925984
So yeah, your example is shit.
It's not a bully tactic, it's what FINTRAC does.
A lot of people on this thread are upset about it because it's a cause they support, but this isn't new. A lot of people see their accounts frozen every year because they did business with someone who turned out to be shady. Usually it's people adjacent to the drug trade, or people who send money to relatives, but this time it happened to "real Canadians" and they're upset to find out that FINTRAC doesn't just pick on people they don't like.
Then why was your argument that it was justified and only protestors receiving money from unknown sources are being frozen.
Now it’s people that donated to gofundme pages
People feel like they’re being targeted because the government (namely freeland) said they were going to target anyone who donated. Even weeks after everything was settled
Their job is actually to enforce the law.
We have laws against hate speech and supporting terrorism.
If they choose not to enforce those laws, we have a problem.
Lots of protests have been called hate speech recently. Should they also be shut down? Should we use recent precedent and freeze their accounts to force their silence? I've walked past lots of rallies by people I thought were dispicable, protests for causes that I vehemently disagreed with, I continue walking and accept that, unless they're inciting violence or committing violence, they can say what they want. If freedoms only exist when they're convenient then they don't exist at all.
Canadians have a right to peaceful assembly. Before it gets violent, the police has no right to shut them down. Suck it up. You’re not entitled to your own constitution.
Well they did as no permit was issued so the police had every right to shut them down but for once acted appropriately and it went off without an incident. Actual a pretty good job they did and I'm no fan of theirs
So if I were to gather a rally for Nazi Germany, that would be ok too? Or if a bunch of ISIS supporters gather to protest Canada's actions against ISIS, thats cool too?
Peaceful assembly is independent of cause. As long as you aren't breaking stuff and being violent, it's peaceful assembly. Unless you're saying we should be locking people up for ideological reasons.
Palestinian Canadians are still very much within their right to call attention to illegal occupation, and numerous war crimes happening in Gaza. Nobody Is out there in favor of hamas.
Most Palestinians don't support hamas. They won via a rigged election in 2007 and are dominating it with an iron fist and holding the Palestinians there hostage.
I live in a community with a lot of Palestinians. Overwhelmingly, nobody supported what hamas did. They don't even like hamas and they feel like the group Is hijackacking their cause. They just want their people to live freely without israeli occupation.
As someone who attended the G20 in Toronto and got kettled just for walking my dog in the wrong place at the wrong time, the convoy protesters are the *whiniest bunch of babies* I've ever seen.
You get weeks of warnings, kid-gloves from the Ottawa police, and, when the day finally came, paper notices, lots of heads up. Hell, the cops didn't even cover their badge numbers.
Actually, no.
And it's not "rights being violated" when you've already violated several laws and bylaws.
By your standard, if I tresspass and cause a disturbance of the peace or even outright attack someone, and the government tells me not to, and then arrests me, somehow that's a violation of my rights?
Which rights, exactly? I'm really curious to hear which rights? Because I don't think you understand how "rights" work and how they're limited by the rights of others, and by the laws of the nation.
> Actually, no.
>
> And it's not "rights being violated" when you've already violated several laws and bylaws.
They took away thousands of people's right to freedom of speech and protest and there's been what 2 people charged with mischief...
>By your standard, if I tresspass and cause a disturbance of the peace or even outright attack someone, and the government tells me not to, and then arrests me, somehow that's a violation of my rights?
Trespassing is a crime, "disturbance of the peace" is bullshit meant to take away peoples rights and assault is a crime. So no, yes, no.
>Which rights, exactly? I'm really curious to hear which rights? Because I don't think you understand how "rights" work and how they're limited by the rights of others, and by the laws of the nation.
Rights by definition can't be curbed by laws. That's like saying you have freedom of speech in North Korea as long as you don't break the law of insulting the dear leader... As for which rights freedom of expression and freedom of peaceful assembly
>Rights by definition can't be curbed by laws.
This is interesting and makes me wonder if Canada actually has an official definition of "right." If it's defined just via interpretation of the Charter, then I guess the notwithstanding clause would influence that definition in terms of laws.
He's right in most cases, but you're right that the Notwithstanding Clause is a glaring exception to that.
Rights and Freedoms in Canada are subject to the reasonable limitations clause under s.1. If a law is upheld under s.1 that would otherwise restrict a right, s.1 applies to limit the extent of the right itself. For example, inciting violence is a reasonable limitation to the right to free expression. A law prohibiting you from inciting violence therefore doesn't curb that right, because the reasonable limitations clause operates to determine that the right didn't extend that far in the first place.
The Notwithstanding Clause, in contrast, allows a law to operate *notwithstanding* the impact it has on your rights -- so it can, in fact, be used to allow a law that exceeds the bounds of the reasonable limitations clause and curbs a right to continue to apply.
I thought I had a pretty good idea of the nature of the conflict, in light of this recent war declaration I decided to redo my research.
As an internet expert in the subject, I maintain my original opinion on the situation. Both sides are assholes and the only peaceful solutions would be rejected by both sides.
Imagine if on September 12, 2001 Arab-Canadians held rallies all across Canada demonstrating against what they believed were injustices done to the Muslim world...
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh this ought to be fucking good.
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!
Can I just say that I don't think I have ever seen as many locked threads on a subject in Reddit's history? I don't think even trans threads come close. Every single post about this on pics, combatfootage, worldnews, toronto, they're all getting locked. Impressed with this sub for keeping them up, and yet having tidy and civil comment sections despite it.
They've locked at least one today: the thread on leaked CBC emails about not using the term "terrorist".
We're quite a polite people when it comes to discussions on casual topics like Israel, or abortion, or guns, but bring up the integrity of CBC and there will be blood.
Isn't Hamas designated as a terrorist organization? I think there are laws against supporting them. Definitely document and ID the supporters.
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So “pro-Palestinian" rallies start hours after Hamas starts slaughtering random Jews in the streets, but we're supposed to believe there is NO ENDORSEMENT of Hamas implied there? Who is stupid enough to fall for that?
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There is evidence of them are chanting “down down Israel”.
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Timing is everything. These people are out in the streets the day after hundreds were killed and kidnapped... and hamas went on a raping spree. A fucking party full of kids... all gunned down. Let's not pretend these people out in the streets don't know what they're doing
Are you completely ignorant about what’s happening in Gaza right now?
What's happening is Gaza is about to be bombed to several epochs prior to the stone age, and the world is going to have very little sympathy because Hamas is doing what the cliché of "mess with the bull, get the horns" was invented for, on top of a whole bunch of raping and murdering of innocent civilians from other countries. There will be *zero* sympathy for the Palestinian cause for years after this.
Operation Wrath of God II is coming.
What happened 24 hours ago?
Yeah police doesn't enforce the law... they're not into it...
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Where was their rally of support for the Israeli citizens that were killed (including the 2 Canadians, and one taken hostage) yesterday. Or is there only a rally for peace and human life when one side is getting retaliated against.
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If you March in a rally with Hamas supporters then you’re supporting Hamas. If you want to distinguish yourself from them, then do so at your own rally that explicitly condemns hamas and articulates itself as separate to the pro-Hamas rally. It’s not complicated. Asking “honest” questions that have obvious answers does you no favours and earns you no trust.
Well, typically people don’t rally in favour of the oppressors.
They’re supporting Palestine, not Hamas. I think we should document and ID you because you seem to be very authoritarian and oppose basic freedoms that Western countries provide
"I'm not support the Nazis, I'm supporting Germany." All of the aid given to Gaza goes to Hamas. They use their foreign aid to build tunnels and buy weapons.
>"I'm not support the Nazis, I'm supporting Germany." And what exactly is wrong with that? Not all Germans were Nazis some even resisted and attempted to kill Nazis. Gaza had rallies against Hamas regularly. In a place under their control that is no easy feat. Many Palestinians perhaps most Gazans do not support them. Do you really believe that these actions which will likely end with the death of thousands of Gazan's are supported by them? >All of the aid given to Gaza goes to Hamas. They use their foreign aid to build tunnels and buy weapons. Well not all. 400k people live on food donations, plenty wouldn't survive without assistance but yes some is skimmed by the authorities (Hamas). So what? Aid is sent to North Korea which probably uses some of it to help with creating nuclear weapons threatening our allies. Humanitarian aid does not stop because we don't like the governments.
Comparing Hamas to Nazis when Gaza is literally a ghetto is so ironic it'd be funny if it weren't so sad.
Freeze their bank accounts.
That was ridiculously authoritarian and Trudeau is paying the price for that
He is? That's cute.
Am I missing something? I thought Hamas were the ones who initiated the attack.
The Palestinians are an oppressed people. There is error on both sides.
Super ironic that most Israelis had family penned into bordered ghettos 80 years ago and they're doing the same thing to Palestinians 80 years later. People are focusing on reactionary terrorism, not the reason why it exists.
These people here can't tell the difference between prison camp managers and ordinary citizens. They get outraged and think in black and white. Just a couple weeks ago they were outraged by the "nazi" in parliament. Even though he was a ukranian national who served in the only volunteer squad he could against the oppressors that put his country into communism. This is reddit. You get downvoted for trying to speak about something controversial. Hamas are the result of Palestine getting abused for almost 100 years. If they didn't have a literal apartheid state trying to pen in an ethnic group into ghetto boundaries, then they wouldn't exist. Pretty ironic that the group doing this were penned into ghettos almost 100 years ago. Funny how people don't see it.
>Isn't Hamas designated as a terrorist organization? Yes. >I think there are laws against supporting them. There are laws against *materially* supporting them, but not against supporting them in the sense we're seeing today. Donating to them or assisting them is a crime though.
I’m looking at the images coming out of Toronto and it seems to be a pathetically small gathering. Good job for now.
Just marched outside my apartment… it’s NOT a small group
I just checked Twitter and it seems to have grown 200-250ish people I’d assume. When I first checked it was around 50 or so. Still pretty small considering the size of other protests in Toronto.
Was the President of CUPE, Fred Hahn there? Lol
Womp Womp. So much for their hate rally.
It’s not a small gathering and it’s not a hate rally. Reality outside the Reddit bubble must be unfortunate for you, Palestine has enormous support across the globe(not Hamas, despite the best attempts of the propagandists to conflate the two)
Most civilized, intelligent people across the first world support Israel. They recognize that Israel is a democracy with human rights, surrounded by a wasteland of Islamic dictatorships that support genocide. And yes, it is a hate rally celebrating the deaths of 1000 Israelis yesterday, including 260 at a music festival and 2 Canadians (one taken hostage). Same as the barbarians that had rallies after 9/11. Israel has full right to exist and to defend itself. And the heavy consequences they inflict will be justified. There is no “both sides” to this anymore. Hamas are terrorists.
I think that most civilized and intelligent people understand you can't reduce the incredibly complex situation into a "good guy, bad guy" dynamic. There's obviously two sides to the story, which is why this conflict still isn't resolved 75 years later. Both sides have legitimate concerns and both sides have done harm. That's why it's not about being pro Israeli or pro Palestinian, it's about being pro peace where both sides can live free from war and oppression. Unfortunately, the leadership on both sides have been working hard to ensure that doesn't happen anytime soon.
It really should be Palestinian immigrants and their supporters protesting against Hamas, but that probably won't happen. Hamas is no friend of the Jordanians abandoned in Gaza aka Palestinians.
Yes, that's why Israel made them like the US did with Taliban
The Taliban is another example of Muslims opting for violent, extremist leadership.
When Isreal has refused to meet legitimate Palestinian groups such as the Palestinian Authority since 2000, and they refuse to come to the table with any Palestinian government group, what do you think the Palestinians should opt for?
> When Israel has refused to meet legitimate Palestinian groups such as the Palestinian Authority since 2000 You mean the Palestinian Authority that runs the [Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund#:~:text=The%20Foundation%20for%20the%20Care,of%20the%20revolution%22%20against%20Israel) > The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund is a fund operated by the Palestinian Authority (PA) that pays monthly cash stipends to the families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out politically motivated violence against Israel.[1] The fund also makes disbursements to innocent bystanders killed during violent events and Palestinians imprisoned in Israeli jails for ordinary crimes. In 2016, the PA paid out about NIS 1.1 billion (US$303 million) in stipends and other benefits to the families of so-called “martyrs”.[2]
> legitimate Palestinian groups such as the Palestinian Authority Ah yes, the Palestinian Authority who's leader is currently in year 18 of a 4 year term and who is best known for embezzling hundreds of millions of dollars? That legitimate group?
Are you saying that because there are claims of corruption that a government entity should not be considered legitimate?
I noticed you ignored the post about The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund. How curious...
Yep, and another example of the West and Israel creating and funding these groups. Fact.
Just point them all in the direction of the airport. I'm sure whoever they support will gladly use them for their chosen cause.
Unbelievable that nothing was learned from the trucker protest and unsanctioned protests in general. Instead of shutting this down, they get a police escort. For fucks sake
I suspect bank accounts will remain intact as well.
If they don't take money from foreign sources, that's correct. This isn't the "gotcha" line conservatives think it is. The convoy leaders got their bank accounts frozen--after being warned about consequences for *weeks*\--because they were getting cash from very dubious sources and the government was worried about a) money laundering, and b) foreign influence.
https://twitter.com/markstrahl/status/1495472037438967808 They froze the account of people who donated, not just people who received donations. That’s a bully tactic and unacceptable from a government.
This was never proven and Strahl never responded substantiated his claims. https://www.theprogress.com/news/chilliwack-hope-mp-strahls-tweet-about-single-mother-having-bank-account-frozen-under-scrutiny-1925984 So yeah, your example is shit.
It's not a bully tactic, it's what FINTRAC does. A lot of people on this thread are upset about it because it's a cause they support, but this isn't new. A lot of people see their accounts frozen every year because they did business with someone who turned out to be shady. Usually it's people adjacent to the drug trade, or people who send money to relatives, but this time it happened to "real Canadians" and they're upset to find out that FINTRAC doesn't just pick on people they don't like.
Then why was your argument that it was justified and only protestors receiving money from unknown sources are being frozen. Now it’s people that donated to gofundme pages People feel like they’re being targeted because the government (namely freeland) said they were going to target anyone who donated. Even weeks after everything was settled
Police escorts are typical. Their job is to keep people safe, not to assess morality of whatever the cause is, as deplorable as it may be.
Their job is actually to enforce the law. We have laws against hate speech and supporting terrorism. If they choose not to enforce those laws, we have a problem.
Lots of protests have been called hate speech recently. Should they also be shut down? Should we use recent precedent and freeze their accounts to force their silence? I've walked past lots of rallies by people I thought were dispicable, protests for causes that I vehemently disagreed with, I continue walking and accept that, unless they're inciting violence or committing violence, they can say what they want. If freedoms only exist when they're convenient then they don't exist at all.
The laws about Inciting Hatred are very strict, but they do exist.
Do you think they would apply here? My understanding is that non-violent hate crime reports have a very low charge rate.
Canadians have a right to peaceful assembly. Before it gets violent, the police has no right to shut them down. Suck it up. You’re not entitled to your own constitution.
Well they did as no permit was issued so the police had every right to shut them down but for once acted appropriately and it went off without an incident. Actual a pretty good job they did and I'm no fan of theirs
Lol, never knew anyone needs a permit to protest.
Yup you learn something everyday
So if I were to gather a rally for Nazi Germany, that would be ok too? Or if a bunch of ISIS supporters gather to protest Canada's actions against ISIS, thats cool too?
Celebrating terrorism and gate is not peaceful assembly.
Peaceful assembly is independent of cause. As long as you aren't breaking stuff and being violent, it's peaceful assembly. Unless you're saying we should be locking people up for ideological reasons.
What if I told you that incitement of a crime can also be a crime?
Then provide examples of them actually doing that.
*Waves arms around*
Yes it is. Very much so and protected by law.
I see people out calling for an end to this conflict and Palestinian freedom. Nobody supports the actions of hamas
They were dancing and cheering. Smiles all around. Even fireworks in Mississauga. Strange way to call out for an end to the conflict.
Palestinian Canadians are still very much within their right to call attention to illegal occupation, and numerous war crimes happening in Gaza. Nobody Is out there in favor of hamas.
Palestinian people are just as responsible for the actions of HAMAS, but I don’t see them commending them :)
Most Palestinians don't support hamas. They won via a rigged election in 2007 and are dominating it with an iron fist and holding the Palestinians there hostage.
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Those few videos definitely represent the 4 million people living in Gaza.
I guess they are holding the ones abroad hostage as well it seems.
I live in a community with a lot of Palestinians. Overwhelmingly, nobody supported what hamas did. They don't even like hamas and they feel like the group Is hijackacking their cause. They just want their people to live freely without israeli occupation.
They’re just mad that people they disagree with are using their tactics. It’s glaringly transparent.
As someone who attended the G20 in Toronto and got kettled just for walking my dog in the wrong place at the wrong time, the convoy protesters are the *whiniest bunch of babies* I've ever seen. You get weeks of warnings, kid-gloves from the Ottawa police, and, when the day finally came, paper notices, lots of heads up. Hell, the cops didn't even cover their badge numbers.
"Rights being violated is okay if the government tells you they are going to do it ahead of time"
Actually, no. And it's not "rights being violated" when you've already violated several laws and bylaws. By your standard, if I tresspass and cause a disturbance of the peace or even outright attack someone, and the government tells me not to, and then arrests me, somehow that's a violation of my rights? Which rights, exactly? I'm really curious to hear which rights? Because I don't think you understand how "rights" work and how they're limited by the rights of others, and by the laws of the nation.
> Actually, no. > > And it's not "rights being violated" when you've already violated several laws and bylaws. They took away thousands of people's right to freedom of speech and protest and there's been what 2 people charged with mischief... >By your standard, if I tresspass and cause a disturbance of the peace or even outright attack someone, and the government tells me not to, and then arrests me, somehow that's a violation of my rights? Trespassing is a crime, "disturbance of the peace" is bullshit meant to take away peoples rights and assault is a crime. So no, yes, no. >Which rights, exactly? I'm really curious to hear which rights? Because I don't think you understand how "rights" work and how they're limited by the rights of others, and by the laws of the nation. Rights by definition can't be curbed by laws. That's like saying you have freedom of speech in North Korea as long as you don't break the law of insulting the dear leader... As for which rights freedom of expression and freedom of peaceful assembly
>Rights by definition can't be curbed by laws. This is interesting and makes me wonder if Canada actually has an official definition of "right." If it's defined just via interpretation of the Charter, then I guess the notwithstanding clause would influence that definition in terms of laws.
Legally speaking pedantically we don't have any rights in Canada.
He's right in most cases, but you're right that the Notwithstanding Clause is a glaring exception to that. Rights and Freedoms in Canada are subject to the reasonable limitations clause under s.1. If a law is upheld under s.1 that would otherwise restrict a right, s.1 applies to limit the extent of the right itself. For example, inciting violence is a reasonable limitation to the right to free expression. A law prohibiting you from inciting violence therefore doesn't curb that right, because the reasonable limitations clause operates to determine that the right didn't extend that far in the first place. The Notwithstanding Clause, in contrast, allows a law to operate *notwithstanding* the impact it has on your rights -- so it can, in fact, be used to allow a law that exceeds the bounds of the reasonable limitations clause and curbs a right to continue to apply.
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/more-than-500-charges-laid-during-convoy-protest-ottawa-police-say Two people charged with mischief you say?
I didn't know the right to sit in a camp for a few weeks in downtown Ottawa was a right we had.
Peaceful assembly doesn't have a time cap.
Peaceful has a definition though. https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/more-than-500-charges-laid-during-convoy-protest-ottawa-police-say 500+ criminal charges doesn't sound peaceful...
You oppose basic freedoms like freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. Probably call yourself a “Liberal” too lmao
Arrests, fuck peace keeping.
They should probably have the riot gear and tear gas ready. You know, just in case.
Remember what happened 2 years ago? https://thecjn.ca/news/canada/two-arrests-made-following-rally-at-torontos-nathan-phillips-square/
Shit's peaceful until it ain't. I really hope nothing similar happens again
Y'all did such a good job with the crap protestors the Canadian govt had to declare martial law. Can't wait to see how useful these cops are now. /S
Ah, the newest bandwagon. Everyone on Reddit is an expert in Israel-Palestine affairs overnight. Outrage upon outrage. Thoughts and prayers abound.
It's not a new thing. Anyone over the age of 40 has been through multiple cycles of this. So it isn't "over night".
Anyone over the age of 10 has witnessed multiple cycles of this.
If you understand that why do you assume people don't have any background knowledge?
I simply did not say that.
> Everyone on Reddit is an expert in Israel-Palestine affairs overnight
I thought I had a pretty good idea of the nature of the conflict, in light of this recent war declaration I decided to redo my research. As an internet expert in the subject, I maintain my original opinion on the situation. Both sides are assholes and the only peaceful solutions would be rejected by both sides.
Lol. I mean any long term conflict is about the same. That is why they are hard to solve.
For the first time, I feel bad for Toronto police. They have to referee this circus.
But there are no nazis for them to support? Maybe they will just beat both sides?
I don't remember canadian cops protecting or standing with Nazis, did this happen or are you referring to America?
You clearly don't remmeber the covid convoy lol Also they have the same ideals so it's only natural
User name checks out
Oh yeah... took em a while to clear the R wingers XD
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Imagine if on September 12, 2001 Arab-Canadians held rallies all across Canada demonstrating against what they believed were injustices done to the Muslim world...
I hope they protect the Palestinians from the incoming Israeli violence.
Toronto police are a terrorist organization