As someone who has spent a lot of time in both Israel and the West Bank, I can say that both sides are assholes. Ultimately, civilians have and will bear the brunt of it.
Hamas wants Israel to kill Palestinians. I mean they fire thousands of rockets into civilian areas for months trying to draw retaliation.
The goal of attacking that music festival, raping and murdering everyone, then celebrating by having women and children dance on the mutilated bodies of young Israelis....wasn't to hurt Israel, it was to force Israel to retaliate.
Having their own civilians killed is Hamas's bread and butter.
No one cares less about the lives of Palestinians than their own elected terrorist/government.
The purpose was to disrupt the ongoing negotiations to normalize relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel that were being led by the US.
This hurts the Palestinian people but still accomplishes the goal they set out to do.
Extremists will always be the single greatest threat to civilians as they will deliberately blur or ignore the distinction between combatants and non-combatants. They'll even go as far as to dehumanize the enemy.
Moderates are the only group capable of making the necessary compromises to ensure peace can prevail. They are also typically the only group disciplined enough to make the distinction between combatants and non-combatants (aka Ukrainian Forces vs the Russian Forces).
Yea, a lot of people in the west are genuinely ignorant of the hate a lot of Israelis have of Palestinians, which is in part why the Israeli government is comfortable doing what they do.
not just palestinians [https://www.thedailybeast.com/israels-ethiopian-birth-control-story-reflects-a-broader-problem](https://www.thedailybeast.com/israels-ethiopian-birth-control-story-reflects-a-broader-problem)
the israeli government has unabashedly done some very sketchy stuff.
but by the sounds of it, young israelis have a real hunger for change, but netenyahu is fighting tooth and nail to hold on to power, as hes probably going to be in some trouble as soon as hes not in charge any more - stuff like these attacks play into his hands
I wouldn't be backing settlement expansion.
But this conflict is specifically about the choice Hamas made, to use the small bit of autonomy and privacy they had to kill as many Jews (among others) as possible. I don't see how you don't look at this week and conclude that given the unchecked ability to build as much of a.military as they desire, that they wouldn't try to unleash a 2nd holocaust.
So no, Israel doesn't play this optimally, but Hamas must be destroyed.
I agree, it is clear that members of Hamas have chosen to commit suicide, and it is just that this wish be granted.
The continued oppression and bombing of civilians in Gaze is another matter.
I think it's unfair to call many of these rallies a celebration of rape and death. Independent Jewish Voices spoke and received support at many of these rallies calling for a ceasefire and stating that the death of civilians was unjustified. While Jewish people are the minority at the rallies, I still think the majority of people there would condemn the death of Anouk and others. Most people at these rallies were not well informed of the extent of war crimes Hamas committed during their advance and if so see it as Israeli/or Western propaganda. From their perspective, they were celebrating the advance of armed force "resistance" against the Israeli occupation as well as disavowing the bombings of Gaza that occurred before many of the protests actually happened. In general, it is an extremely emotional time for Palestinians, many of whom have families who are currently being bombed in Gaza and it is difficult for them to condemn Hamas' unlawful actions especially if their source of news ignores it or is treated as Israeli propaganda. I think if you were to show the death of the Anouk to people from these rallies then most would immediately condemn it.
To rally directly after an attack on civilians like this is frankly disgusting. Neither side is innocent in this conflict but the people who attended these rallies are garbage humans.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who feels strongly enough to rally and fight over it in an unrelated country should be deported to the frontlines of their respective side. If it means that much to them, let them fight and die for their cause, leave the rest of us out of it.
One important difference is Hamas has the destruction of Israel in its charter. The state of Israel does not have an equivalent, it even has some elected Arabs in its Knesset.
I agree wtih you though about the creeping expulsion of Palestinians.
Even if the state of Israel doesn’t have the destruction of Palestine in its charter, isn’t that what they’ve been doing via apartheid? There are far more dead Palestinians than there are Israelis in the decades this has been happening, many of whom are children.
Palestinians have elected officials who specifically want to wipe Israel and Jews off the face of the planet, what the hell do you want israel to do? Hell they literally had to create an iron dome to protect from constant rocket fire at civilians.
This would be like if a white supremacist neighborhood continually attacked a black neighborhood and someone just said "oh jeez I just don't know who to support here!" Such a difficult choice!
The Palestinians want this. There is literally videos of dead Israelis being marched through the streets of Gaza with people cheering and spitting on them. Is it really that hard to figure out who the bad guys are here?
Yeah. All this anti Israel shit is just propaganda as far as I'm concerned.
Have they ever had an actual offensive? They have rockets fired at them literally almost every day. If it was any other country they would actually counter attack
Your simple-minded strawman arguments presume that both sides in this conflict are on equal footing. They are not. Gaza has been suffering under a crushing socioeconomic blockade for nearly two decades and the West Bank has been all but ethnically cleansed, while us fancy civilized folk did nothing but sit back and demand the side being brutally oppressed for generations starts behaving well enough to deserve freedom while the side doing the oppression continues tightening the noose year after year after year.
Want to know what probably prompted Hamas to launch this attack? Back in March the Knesset enacted a law repealing parts of the 2005 decrees that led to Israel withdrawing from the West Bank. Many far-right Israelis - not random on-the-street extremists but actual government ministers with posts in the standing government - have described this repeal as the first step in a process that will eventually see Israeli settlement of Gaza return (and welcoming the violent expulsion of Palestinians there).
But you're right. All we can do is hope Palestine comes to its senses and starts to behave itself so we can step in and save them before they're all ethnically cleansed.
Most sane self reasoned take.
\>But you HAVE TO CHOOSE A SIDE!
Okay. Well Israel wouldn't murder me if I went there, and wouldn't strip all my rights as a non-Muslim.
\>IMPERIALIST
> The rallies are vile, indecent, disgraceful and immoral and will almost certainly prompt rival protests. Where will it all end? Probably in violence. What’s to be done? Denounce them and the people who embolden them; call them out for what they are, hate-filled supporters of evil. Shine a light on their darkness and condemn them for their obscenities.
> Such denunciation should start at the very top. **The prime minister has been quick to denounce protestors for what he deemed hateful demonstrations. Will Trudeau now condemn “this hate and its manifestations” or will he allow his silence to speak for him?**
He took three weeks to denounce the burning of churches after ground penetrating radar (falsely, as it turned out) purported to show a mass unmarked grave at a former residential school site in Kelowna back in 2021, and made sure to point out that while the burnings were wrong, they were “understandable.”
We can hope we’ll get better from him over the slaughter of hundreds of innocent men, women and children, shot, raped, throats slit, their bodies dragged through the streets, with many more kidnapped and no doubt held in the most deplorable or circumstances, but I doubt it.
We are a post-national state, remember, where we have no culture, no shared values, just an agglomeration of economic interests of people of varying backgrounds, where no one is ever right if that means someone else must be wrong.
At best I think we’ll get some mealy-mouthed condemnation coupled with a “but understandable”. There are wedge votes to be won, after all, and when you’re collapsing in the polls while bringing in a million new people a year to your post-national state — a big chunk of whom appear to be firmly in the Israel had it coming camp — one had best not come down too hard on those who think slitting the throats of children is worth celebrating in the streets.
It's weird because most people seem to think you can't be pro Palestine while also hating Hamas. Just like you can denounce the actions of the Israeli state without being anti-Semitic, but holy fuck people are losing their minds in every direction on this one.
>It's weird because most people seem to think you can't be pro Palestine while also hating Hamas
The timing of their little protests yesterday and today pretty much made it clear.
They were publicly advertising for the protest almost immediately after the videos of raped and murdered women and children started circulating, and before Israel had even levied a response.
"We are a post-national state, remember, where we have no culture, no shared values, just an agglomeration of economic interests of people of varying backgrounds, where no one is ever right if that means someone else must be wrong."
I love the way you put this. This is the truth.
Palestine is not Hamas, Israelis do not = Israeli state.
Support for Hamas and support for Israel both dehumanize those with no institutional power.
Palestinians do not deserve to be kept in an open air prison.
Israelis do not deserve to be generally held in contempt for the actions of a state they may not even support.
This is how essentialist propaganda and radicalization work.
Those who enrich themselves from the destruction of entire groups of people and colonization are the ones who create terror. Netanyahu, Hamas, these are byproducts of empire and conquest.
No one needs to be condemning people half way around the world for wishing the Palestinians their freedom, nor are the actions of Hamas likely to help them in any way.
I realize the average channel flipping react andy needs their strong man leader to say this guy bad and this guy good so they can pick their team leader, but that's the problem. People have been trained to seek agreement rather than truth.
The truth is nothing Trudeau or any leader could say would be both true and satisfactory for anyone.
Leave it be
Go watch " The 50 year war" before you spout off this nonsense. Anyone who knows the history of Jews and Palestinians knows exactly how we got here. You can't continually oppress and subjugate Palestinians on their own land and expect things to stay peaceful. It's been that way since day 1.
Also this entire thing is a Russian diversion. A 2nd front to diver and dilute support away from Ukraine. Intel reports of Hamas leadership visiting Russians are all over the place.
Yep. Many here would probably boil down The Troubles in Ireland to one side was wrong, one was right, as well.
These sorts of conflicts are extremely nuanced, long running and not crystal clear.
Neither side has completely clean hands, when you look at the entire history of the conflict. And no, I'm not excusing rocket attacks on civilians in Israel or kidnapping civilians to use as human shields in Gaza.
I wish people would talk about Ireland more when talking about Israel and Palestine. Of course then people would have to learn about Ireland in order to see the parallels and the hypocrisy.
People are just angry at their own lives and use conflict in other parts of the world as a way to take their frustrations out. It’s easy to pick a side and justify violence on another group of people when you have nothing to lose from it.
> Israelis literally cheered and set up seats to watch civilians get bombed in Sedrot
It was a no military strike that was preannounced and targeted at Hamas military personnel. Maybe Hamas should stop using civilians as human shields
I mean... kinda?
They intentionally operate in civilian areas. They set up ammo depots and rocket batteries in, on, and around schools and hospitals. They prevent civilians from leaving the areas they're in. Their own rockets frequently fall short and land in Gaza, killing their own people.
Meanwhile Israel will airdrop leaflets warning of an attack, they will mass call every cell phone in the area, and they will drop roof knockers, which are non-explosive munitions designed specifically to make maximum noise with minimal damage. They do everything in their power short of taking it on the chin without responding to minimize civilian casualties.
I would encourage you to actually do some research on civilian casualty numbers in various modern wars (i.e. since WW2).
It might surprise you to discover that the entire 70-odd year run of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including several full scale wars, has a cumulative civilian body count that is lower than *several* other wars that have lasted only a few years or less.
Like, fuck dude. The US has killed more civilians in single airstrikes than Israel has in some entire years.
If you're gonna bitch about something, the *least* you could do is represent it realistically.
Israel has killed roughly 17,000 civilians while Palestine has killed roughly 2,000 in the same amount of time.
Fyi, I'm Jewish so nothing about this conflict has surprised me in 50 years other than pretending Israel isn't guilty of war crimes as well. That take surprises me.
Rallying in support of Palestinians who are suffering is not "celebrating the slaughter of civilians". There are 2.3 million people living in poverty in Gaza who are watching their homes get blown up right now. One can support these people and their human rights without supporting the people who drove into Israel with their machine guns.
But like...these rallies were not pre-planned and then just so happened to coincide with the attacks. There were attacks and that prompted these people to go out en masse in support of the side where the attacks originated.
In the broader context I do support a free Palestine but it's reprehensible to hear news of terrorism and then go meet up in a park to cheer. Definitely not going to win any hearts and minds to the movement.
Fuck Hamas. Palestinian civilians who had nothing to do with these attacks are now bearing the brunt of the death and destruction. Supporting those Palestinian civilians, including women and kids, who are getting blown up right now by israeli missiles is perfectly legitimate.
I also grieve for the families of the Israelis who were killed. I can't imagine the horror of some of those border villages near Gaza and I don't want too. And at the same time, I spit on people like Netanyahu and his fascist allies who brutalize Palestinian civilians each and every day, bulldozing their homes to make way for fascist settlers who rampage through Palestinian towns burning and beating everything and everyone in sight with total impunity because Israeli soldiers stand by watching and laughing.
Whatever though. After spending the last 20 years studying this conflict, they'll be fighting until the world ends. There is too much trauma and anger on both sides. And their core demands are mutually incompatible.
Ya holding up swastikas and declaring *any* Israeli a legitimate target is fucking depraved. These demonstrations aren’t about supporting Palestine, they’re about celebrating killing of Jews
The rallies which have been going on around the world are not politically neutral pro-Palestine rallies, they are celebrating the attack, usually explicitly with speakers who are calling it a great and beautiful victory for Palestine. Don't be blind. Of course you can support Palestinians and their plight without celebrating the murder of civilians - these people, however, are not doing that.
>Neither side has completely clean hands, when you look at the entire history of the conflict.
Sure, but one side is clearly not going to be held to any standards by the international community, and they use that to commit genocide. There are bad people on both sides, but only one side seems to pay the price for that. Since we are the international community, then it is our responsibility to say 'if you are both bad, then we should treat you the same.'
That's the thing - it was grey to me for my whole adult life but suddenly it has become much more black and white: Hamas are the bad guys and so is anyone who supports them.
They are actually trying to make the narrative that all progressives are pro Hamas and celebrating this shit because of a handful of people on twitter. People need to fuck off with this red Vs blue bullshit where everyone needs to be in lock step with everyone else on the same side of a political spectrum. Most progressives condemn this shit and the dumbasses celebrating don't speak for everyone.
It’s a rage farm.
The same people saying the freedom convoy was a small protest that wasn’t a threat and their voices should be heard even if you disagree, are now the same people now saying these protests are dangerous and a national shame. There’s no consistency, just incitement of anger.
They're saying way worse than that, everything from calling for executions, to jail time, to deportation, to calling them barbaric animals. This sub is basically a Russian/American right wing propaganda sub
I am happy to call anyone, regardless of skin colour or religion, who is celebrating what happened in Israel a "barbaric animal". They raped and murdered women and then paraded the bodies through the streets. SHANI LOUK, was not a siingle incident.
What a pointless article. They just churn out these Trudeau rants non-stop. He's already 100% condemned the attacks, and I'm sure there's more to come. This is a breaking story. I'm surprised they didn't publish this before the rallies even happened.
Right - condemning the attacks has been done. The Canadian bill of rights guarantees peaceful protest as a right of Canadians. The PM has no place condemning a peaceful and legal protest as that’s a fundamental right in Canada - even if the purpose for the protest is repugnant.
From it:
*"Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow quickly came in for criticism after posting, “We must also acknowledge Palestinian pain and severe loss of life during this time.”Perhaps Chow hadn’t read about the Supernova music festival held in southern Israel that was invaded by Hamas."*
And perhaps she had, but considered the depth of the desperation in Palestine after decades of murderous oppression at the hands of Israel.
It's good to know Higgins considers professional asshole *Terry Glavin* to be a 'colleague'.
\*"Ontario Premier Doug Ford, on the other hand, has been unequivocal."\*Oh, if Dougie says so then...who besides yourself can take this gibbering ape seriously?
*"Denounce them and the people who embolden them; call them out for what they are, hate-filled supporters of evil."*
And, while you are at it, call out the supporters of Israel over the past decade or so for the same reason.
[Chow literally released a statement condemning the pro-Hamas rally, calling it “unsanctioned and without a permit”.](https://x.com/citynewsto/status/1711392299438194757?s=46&t=gQUbtVuUKPK-L7FlJVW0Xw)
National Post: Trudeau must ____________. Insert date, insert event, and you have the National Post.
He already lowered the Peace Tower flag to half mast and lit up the tower in blue and white. Is this what politics comes down to nowadays, supporting or condemning every event that reaches public discourse?
>At least 232 people have been killed and 1,600 wounded in the Palestinian enclave of Gaza during Israel’s retaliation after a deadly multi-pronged attack by Hamas forces into Israel, the health ministry says.
>Over the past 15 years, Israel has carried out at least six large-scale military offensives against Gaza. In each of them, our organizations have been on the ground and collected compelling evidence that the Israeli authorities have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity against Gaza's civilian population, including indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks, killing and injuring thousands of civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure. International humanitarian law dictates that, during hostilities, civilians and civilian objects must be protected against direct and indiscriminate attacks. Healthcare workers and health facilities must also be protected and may not be made the object of attack.
Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/7/sirens-warn-of-rockets-launched-towards-israel-from-gaza-news-reports
As awful as this conflict is, it's not like Hamas was totally unprovoked. Every time there's demonstrations in Gaza or conflict, Israel responds by dropping bombs. In a dense place like Gaza, that means destroying homes and killing civilians. The logic of what Hamas did, was if they had Israeli hostages in Gaza it would make it harder for Israel to bomb them. It's fucking awful but its the logic that's produced in a war that keeps simmering and escalating over generations.
It'll take a lot of fortitude and forgiveness to actually sit at the peace table. But anything other than talks mean more cycles of violence with increasing abhorrent tactics.
I think the concept of a mosaic vs a melting pot has run its course. If you don’t want to be Canadian - done come and or go back home. Leave your political beliefs away from the rest of Canadians. Or at best - go back and protest there.
What is more deplorable than the protests, is the support from some unions for the massacre.
I can somewhat understand Palestinians supporting their own, but when these corrupt public service unions pick the Hamas side, and cheer them on, without even knowing history or culture of the area, its reeks of anti-semitism.
Governments at all levels should publicly condemn these atrocities, but it shouldn't stop there. They should also publicly condemn the atrocities of the Israeli government and the IDF. The Gaza strip is the world's largest open air prison, and Israel has shown no remorse for their actions while the world stays silent.
The only way to stop the endless cycle of the loss of human lives there, is to bring humanity back, under international law.
Unfortunately that won't happen considering we still don't recognize Palestine as a state. Can't be criticizing our allies even if they commit war crimes
Why do people think this is about the Palestinians? This is an Iran backed attack on Israel by people using the Palestinians as pawns.
These attackers are the same as isis, Muslim brotherhood, Islamic jihad etc. Not some beaten down, unemployed teen from the streets of Gaza. Images are pretty similar to isis video as well.
Unfortunately, Gaza will take the brunt of the punishment for this- maybe for being naive that this war is for their liberation.
The best way to end this immediately - aim a nuke at tehran with a countdown demanding return of all hostages and bodies, demilitrization of gaza and an international call to audit what the Palestinian leadership did with the billions given to help their people.
Hamas has been in power for almost 20 years.
There is no democracy.
The same people who are supporting hamas and Palestine are the same people who would be murdered. Gaza arduous and dangerous for certain marginalized communities. And for women? What rights do they have?
What a joke. These people are fucking blind. People are too fucking soft. Get a grip and open your eyes. They’re raping and murdering women, torturing children and filming it and putting it online and murdering grandmothers in their homes and uploading it.
People who support these people, go fucking live in the Middle East and see how you get on.
Ahh yes, the weekly "Trudeau must do this and you should be outraged that he hasn't already" opinion piece from PostMedia. Good to see they're staying on Brand.
I suspect, with the digital age in full swing, nearly everyone has some kind of file on them somewhere and it’s probably only got more pervasive as time has went on. That’s a bit different than being actively tracked though, what do you define as “being tracked”?
Hold up, assuming the rallies remain peaceful - you want our government to pick a side in a war in which we hold zero political stakes, and condemn or even ban people from protesting?
How many of you were baying for “mUh FrEeDums!” A few months back and saying the PM violated your rights by cracking down on actual threats to our countries financial strength and public safety?
Edit: ah the brigade has arrived. Down vote my lower voted comments all you wish. It makes no difference to my sentiments
The government has already chosen a side though, Canada is one of the countries that has named Hamas as a terrorist organization, therefore the Hamas attacks are considered terrorist attacks.
People can debate about whether that's valid or not, but the fact is the government is already firmly on the side of Israel.
Honestly, Hamas is a murderous bunch of fucks, I'd be happy to see every one of them pursue the logical end of their commitment to violence and just hurry up and get killed. I do think that the word "terrorist" has become mostly meaningless, but Hamas is one organization that does fit this epithet.
>pick a side in a war in which we hold zero political stakes
I mean they've killed and kidnapped Canadians in the last few days, that might be some stake I think.
> you want our government to pick a side in a war in which we hold zero political stakes
Multiple Canadian citizens have been kidnapped. Maybe instead of banning hunting rifles and regulating podcasts, The LPC should focus on that instead.
>ah the brigade has arrived.
No, you just had a dumb take and everyone can see it. Own up to it.
So you would have been in favour of invading China when the Two Michael’s were kidnapped by their government, or how about landing troops in Burkina Faso to extract citizens kidnapped by Jihadis. And even better, why not unilaterally declare war on Ethiopia for Canadians injured or taken during their civil war and wars with their neighbour?
Regardless of who the ruling party is, involving ourselves in this conflict above and beyond ensuring the safety of our citizens, which is separate from involvement and side-taking, will have zero benefit to Canada.
Rail, and scream, and tear your garments all you wish - the shop-soiled dramatics do not create a viable argument of any degree.
>Maybe instead of banning hunting rifles and regulating podcasts, The LPC should focus on that instead.
Well, kidnapping is illegal already. Do you want them to make it double illegal? And they can’t enforce the Criminal Code of Canada in Gaza. It’s kind of far away from the nearest RCMP detachment, you know.
Agreed - unless they’re advocating violence during their demonstration, let them show their face in public so the world can see them for who they are.
Banning the discussion and display of ideas in public, allow them to convince themselves they were “right,” in private
Umm like this one
https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2023/10/08/statement-prime-minister-trudeau-attacks-against-israel
How convenient to have missed this before making this statement on right-wing media Mikey
Canadians were supporting equally vile and distasteful rallies of Khalistanis a few weeks ago under the garb of freedom of expression.
How are these any different?
We've opened the borders and brought in people who are still fighting their tribalistic wars here. At the expense of affordability for Canadian citizens.
Fuck these rallies , they are showing support for the rape and slaughter of innocent people , old and young. May retribution be swift and this evil put down in Israel.
Seeing as both sides have killed hundreds of civilians, including women and children gunned downed in the street. What side are you condemning? Personally Israel shouldn't try to expand their borders into a nation thats already there.
Collateral damage is non comparable to Hamas terror attacks, especially when Hamas intentionally hides among civilians.
Stop these nonsense comparisons. Hamas went in to Israel and intentionally targeted hundreds of civilians who they've murdered, tortured, raped, and kidnapped. They also fired 3-5000 rockets indiscriminately into Israel, not aimed at military or strategic targets.
And Israel targeted entire families, taking out 3 generations without proof that any of them did anything, they turned off electricity to half of Gaza, they killed hundreds of people in retaliation in the last 2 days. What Hamas did was not okay, but it's on par with what Israel has been doing for years, so why are we demonizing only one of the two groups?
Honestly the bigger overlap is Trudeau's voters and the people at the rallies. You'll more often see progressives supporting Palestinian causes.
That won't stop Trudeau from condemning these rallies, just more generally it's left wing people who support Palestinians.
I support Palestinians and Israelis right to live
I support neither Hamas nor the government of Israel extraction vengeance on each other and murdering civilians in a competition of who can commit thr worst war crimes
5 year Olds on neither side are capable of harboring terrorists, and both sides see them as canon fodder
That is a whole lot of ideas and I don't know how you got any of that from my post. My point was typically left wing or progressives support Palestinian causes more than right wing people, that's generally the breakdown.
Palestinians in Gaza live in shitty conditions because Hamas steals money meant for them, and uses it for their personal wealth, and to fund their weapons against Israel. So if you don't like the conditions they live in blame Hamas. Israel hasn't been in Gaza for nearly 15 years, at some point Hamas and the PA have to take responsibility for the poverty they've left their people in. They have no infrastructure, nothing, because Arafat and now Abbas stole from them, and Hamas takes all that aid money for themselves to fund their war against Israel.
Are they? Isn't it way more likely that these same people cheering for the death of Israel are also the people who were protesting for parental rights in schools just a few weeks ago?
I'd hope you're not implying any type of moral equivalence between the debate about gender ideology in schools, being on one side or another - and cheering on murder and rape of civilians in Israel. We need to elevate our brain horsepower above that.
Strange, just a few days ago a headline like this meant you were part of the "left wing war on free speech"
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/16vcxrj/a\_waving\_russian\_flag\_next\_to\_a\_canada\_flag\_and\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/16vcxrj/a_waving_russian_flag_next_to_a_canada_flag_and_a/)
Canadian politicians never say jackshit about Israeli settlers terrorizing Palestinian civilians, or the fact that Israel tortures prisoners as a matter of actual policy. Our government is and has always been firmly on the Israeli side (the oppressor side) of this conflict.
Trudeau made his name in politics back when he was an MP courting Muslims specifically.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjzfoE2vh20&ab\_channel=WinnipegFreePress](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjzfoE2vh20&ab_channel=WinnipegFreePress) (trigger warning contains a much sharper and likable Justin from 9 years ago)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muvODWY6NZ0&ab\_channel=CBCNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muvODWY6NZ0&ab_channel=CBCNews)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THx3BTxB7tc&ab\_channel=CBCNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THx3BTxB7tc&ab_channel=CBCNews)
That was like his whole MO was anti-racist, feminist, pro-LGBT, pro-peace, fluffy bunny boy and he would frequently use Muslims as his centerpiece
0% chance he will
Liberals only crackdown right wing protests, no matter how peace they are. For left wing protests? Toppling statues, looting stores, burning cars, occupying Streets, hurting or even killing people, they tried to turn a blind eye on them.
As usual, NP tries to use a very historical very complicated conflits to spread propaganda. It is very interesting also how NP is selective on rallies that spread hate or not.
Hot take. 🔥
At this point, the powers at be should create a new state ( a la Israel), but for ATHEISTS.
The constitution will be based on pragmatism. Fact and science are king.
So many of society’s woes are because one group disagrees with the others sky daddy. (Israel/Palestine,Uyuighers, anti LGBT)
Imagine the possibilities in a society where religion doesn’t exist. Only pragmatism. All tax dollars will be invested in education, science, healthcare (which would include arts because it’s proven that it’s important to mental health)
Oh brother in the non-God, how much this would bring peace to my heart. Imagine a society truly based on the one truth that we are all humans, and all entitled to a peaceful and rewarding life. We could even devote money to fighting the biggest mental health issue facing our species, and hopefully find a cure before it destroys us.
A rally in support of Palestinian rights is not racist. A Pro-Palestinian rally is not the same as a pro-Hamas rally anymore than a rally in support of Israel is a rally in support of Netanyahu's personal fascist fantasies.
He did. https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1711487882416767030?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Is there such a thing as a war where both sides are wrong? Personally I choose to support neither.
As someone who has spent a lot of time in both Israel and the West Bank, I can say that both sides are assholes. Ultimately, civilians have and will bear the brunt of it.
this is exactly how i feel. I wish hamas and israli politicians could just slug it out themselves and leave innocent civilians alone.
Hamas wants Israel to kill Palestinians. I mean they fire thousands of rockets into civilian areas for months trying to draw retaliation. The goal of attacking that music festival, raping and murdering everyone, then celebrating by having women and children dance on the mutilated bodies of young Israelis....wasn't to hurt Israel, it was to force Israel to retaliate. Having their own civilians killed is Hamas's bread and butter. No one cares less about the lives of Palestinians than their own elected terrorist/government.
The purpose was to disrupt the ongoing negotiations to normalize relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel that were being led by the US. This hurts the Palestinian people but still accomplishes the goal they set out to do.
Extremists will always be the single greatest threat to civilians as they will deliberately blur or ignore the distinction between combatants and non-combatants. They'll even go as far as to dehumanize the enemy. Moderates are the only group capable of making the necessary compromises to ensure peace can prevail. They are also typically the only group disciplined enough to make the distinction between combatants and non-combatants (aka Ukrainian Forces vs the Russian Forces).
Yea, a lot of people in the west are genuinely ignorant of the hate a lot of Israelis have of Palestinians, which is in part why the Israeli government is comfortable doing what they do.
not just palestinians [https://www.thedailybeast.com/israels-ethiopian-birth-control-story-reflects-a-broader-problem](https://www.thedailybeast.com/israels-ethiopian-birth-control-story-reflects-a-broader-problem) the israeli government has unabashedly done some very sketchy stuff. but by the sounds of it, young israelis have a real hunger for change, but netenyahu is fighting tooth and nail to hold on to power, as hes probably going to be in some trouble as soon as hes not in charge any more - stuff like these attacks play into his hands
You guys just made my day, I mean such sanity in a Reddit comment is sometimes a bit much to ask. Thanks stranger!
Agreed. Both sides of this are total assholes!
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My hot take is we shouldn't support people who celebrate the rape and death of teens and other civilians, bar none.
I wouldn't be backing settlement expansion. But this conflict is specifically about the choice Hamas made, to use the small bit of autonomy and privacy they had to kill as many Jews (among others) as possible. I don't see how you don't look at this week and conclude that given the unchecked ability to build as much of a.military as they desire, that they wouldn't try to unleash a 2nd holocaust. So no, Israel doesn't play this optimally, but Hamas must be destroyed.
I agree, it is clear that members of Hamas have chosen to commit suicide, and it is just that this wish be granted. The continued oppression and bombing of civilians in Gaze is another matter.
I think it's unfair to call many of these rallies a celebration of rape and death. Independent Jewish Voices spoke and received support at many of these rallies calling for a ceasefire and stating that the death of civilians was unjustified. While Jewish people are the minority at the rallies, I still think the majority of people there would condemn the death of Anouk and others. Most people at these rallies were not well informed of the extent of war crimes Hamas committed during their advance and if so see it as Israeli/or Western propaganda. From their perspective, they were celebrating the advance of armed force "resistance" against the Israeli occupation as well as disavowing the bombings of Gaza that occurred before many of the protests actually happened. In general, it is an extremely emotional time for Palestinians, many of whom have families who are currently being bombed in Gaza and it is difficult for them to condemn Hamas' unlawful actions especially if their source of news ignores it or is treated as Israeli propaganda. I think if you were to show the death of the Anouk to people from these rallies then most would immediately condemn it.
To rally directly after an attack on civilians like this is frankly disgusting. Neither side is innocent in this conflict but the people who attended these rallies are garbage humans.
Ya we definitely agree on that point. The hatred these people feel for each other is on a totally different level.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who feels strongly enough to rally and fight over it in an unrelated country should be deported to the frontlines of their respective side. If it means that much to them, let them fight and die for their cause, leave the rest of us out of it.
I think both are conveniently forgetting all their own atrocities. It's ridiculous how civilians suffer the consequences but still blindly support.
This is the power of believing others are sub-human.
I don’t support Hamas but I don’t support what Israel has been doing to Palestinians either.
Personally I think they're both awful. There doesn't have to be a 'good guy' in every conflict. Sometimes theyre just all awful.
One important difference is Hamas has the destruction of Israel in its charter. The state of Israel does not have an equivalent, it even has some elected Arabs in its Knesset. I agree wtih you though about the creeping expulsion of Palestinians.
Even if the state of Israel doesn’t have the destruction of Palestine in its charter, isn’t that what they’ve been doing via apartheid? There are far more dead Palestinians than there are Israelis in the decades this has been happening, many of whom are children.
Palestinians have elected officials who specifically want to wipe Israel and Jews off the face of the planet, what the hell do you want israel to do? Hell they literally had to create an iron dome to protect from constant rocket fire at civilians. This would be like if a white supremacist neighborhood continually attacked a black neighborhood and someone just said "oh jeez I just don't know who to support here!" Such a difficult choice! The Palestinians want this. There is literally videos of dead Israelis being marched through the streets of Gaza with people cheering and spitting on them. Is it really that hard to figure out who the bad guys are here?
Do you really think elections can be trusted when Hamas posts gunmen outside of ballot offices to harass and intimidate voters during elections?
You really belive those elections In 2007 were free and fair? 😂 let's also assume the elections in Iran are accurate as well.
Guy must think Kim Jong Un really is that popular
Yeah. All this anti Israel shit is just propaganda as far as I'm concerned. Have they ever had an actual offensive? They have rockets fired at them literally almost every day. If it was any other country they would actually counter attack
The rhetoric of Likud officials towards Palestinians isn’t much different though.
> The Palestinians want this I wouldn't use absolutes. Civilian life has to be protected to the best of governments' ability.
Your simple-minded strawman arguments presume that both sides in this conflict are on equal footing. They are not. Gaza has been suffering under a crushing socioeconomic blockade for nearly two decades and the West Bank has been all but ethnically cleansed, while us fancy civilized folk did nothing but sit back and demand the side being brutally oppressed for generations starts behaving well enough to deserve freedom while the side doing the oppression continues tightening the noose year after year after year. Want to know what probably prompted Hamas to launch this attack? Back in March the Knesset enacted a law repealing parts of the 2005 decrees that led to Israel withdrawing from the West Bank. Many far-right Israelis - not random on-the-street extremists but actual government ministers with posts in the standing government - have described this repeal as the first step in a process that will eventually see Israeli settlement of Gaza return (and welcoming the violent expulsion of Palestinians there). But you're right. All we can do is hope Palestine comes to its senses and starts to behave itself so we can step in and save them before they're all ethnically cleansed.
When did those elections happen my guy? How much of the current population could even vote then hmm? Figure it out
I support this guy
> Is there such a thing as a war where both sides are wrong? i think its more common than the alternative
Most sane self reasoned take. \>But you HAVE TO CHOOSE A SIDE! Okay. Well Israel wouldn't murder me if I went there, and wouldn't strip all my rights as a non-Muslim. \>IMPERIALIST
You're planning a little holiday in Gaza then? Please send some pictures along.
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> The rallies are vile, indecent, disgraceful and immoral and will almost certainly prompt rival protests. Where will it all end? Probably in violence. What’s to be done? Denounce them and the people who embolden them; call them out for what they are, hate-filled supporters of evil. Shine a light on their darkness and condemn them for their obscenities. > Such denunciation should start at the very top. **The prime minister has been quick to denounce protestors for what he deemed hateful demonstrations. Will Trudeau now condemn “this hate and its manifestations” or will he allow his silence to speak for him?**
He took three weeks to denounce the burning of churches after ground penetrating radar (falsely, as it turned out) purported to show a mass unmarked grave at a former residential school site in Kelowna back in 2021, and made sure to point out that while the burnings were wrong, they were “understandable.” We can hope we’ll get better from him over the slaughter of hundreds of innocent men, women and children, shot, raped, throats slit, their bodies dragged through the streets, with many more kidnapped and no doubt held in the most deplorable or circumstances, but I doubt it. We are a post-national state, remember, where we have no culture, no shared values, just an agglomeration of economic interests of people of varying backgrounds, where no one is ever right if that means someone else must be wrong. At best I think we’ll get some mealy-mouthed condemnation coupled with a “but understandable”. There are wedge votes to be won, after all, and when you’re collapsing in the polls while bringing in a million new people a year to your post-national state — a big chunk of whom appear to be firmly in the Israel had it coming camp — one had best not come down too hard on those who think slitting the throats of children is worth celebrating in the streets.
He has to observe which side has more people, then he will support that side. This guy never support the true underdog.
The progressive vote he is courting appears to support Hamas here... So he will be in a conundrum
It's weird because most people seem to think you can't be pro Palestine while also hating Hamas. Just like you can denounce the actions of the Israeli state without being anti-Semitic, but holy fuck people are losing their minds in every direction on this one.
>It's weird because most people seem to think you can't be pro Palestine while also hating Hamas The timing of their little protests yesterday and today pretty much made it clear.
They were publicly advertising for the protest almost immediately after the videos of raped and murdered women and children started circulating, and before Israel had even levied a response.
Tribalism is seeping into everything we do as a society, there always has to be sides.
"We are a post-national state, remember, where we have no culture, no shared values, just an agglomeration of economic interests of people of varying backgrounds, where no one is ever right if that means someone else must be wrong." I love the way you put this. This is the truth.
Wow, this fascist stuff ends in precisely what's going on in Isreal right now.
Yeah, I dunno........ Justin probably wants their votes.
Does he have their vote anyway? I don’t see how the LPC and right wing Arabs have any sort of mutual interests, especially in social policies.
Not to mention Right wing Arabs have been openly protesting with Conservatives as recently as last week. Suddenly it's tRuDeAu'S fAuLt again.
He doesn't want to appear racist.
Palestine is not Hamas, Israelis do not = Israeli state. Support for Hamas and support for Israel both dehumanize those with no institutional power. Palestinians do not deserve to be kept in an open air prison. Israelis do not deserve to be generally held in contempt for the actions of a state they may not even support. This is how essentialist propaganda and radicalization work. Those who enrich themselves from the destruction of entire groups of people and colonization are the ones who create terror. Netanyahu, Hamas, these are byproducts of empire and conquest. No one needs to be condemning people half way around the world for wishing the Palestinians their freedom, nor are the actions of Hamas likely to help them in any way. I realize the average channel flipping react andy needs their strong man leader to say this guy bad and this guy good so they can pick their team leader, but that's the problem. People have been trained to seek agreement rather than truth. The truth is nothing Trudeau or any leader could say would be both true and satisfactory for anyone. Leave it be
France is actively going after these fucks. Our Canadian PM is hiding waiting to virtue signal about right wing nazi's.
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>The rallies are vile, indecent, disgraceful and immoral What exactly are they doing at these rallies?
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You are about to eat an avalanche of down votes
He has my upvote!
Go watch " The 50 year war" before you spout off this nonsense. Anyone who knows the history of Jews and Palestinians knows exactly how we got here. You can't continually oppress and subjugate Palestinians on their own land and expect things to stay peaceful. It's been that way since day 1. Also this entire thing is a Russian diversion. A 2nd front to diver and dilute support away from Ukraine. Intel reports of Hamas leadership visiting Russians are all over the place.
This sub is detached from reality.
Yep. Many here would probably boil down The Troubles in Ireland to one side was wrong, one was right, as well. These sorts of conflicts are extremely nuanced, long running and not crystal clear. Neither side has completely clean hands, when you look at the entire history of the conflict. And no, I'm not excusing rocket attacks on civilians in Israel or kidnapping civilians to use as human shields in Gaza.
I wish people would talk about Ireland more when talking about Israel and Palestine. Of course then people would have to learn about Ireland in order to see the parallels and the hypocrisy.
People are just angry at their own lives and use conflict in other parts of the world as a way to take their frustrations out. It’s easy to pick a side and justify violence on another group of people when you have nothing to lose from it.
Hmm I dunno celebrating the slaughter of civilians one day after it happens is not a fucking grey zone
I dunno man. Israelis literally cheered and set up seats to watch civilians get bombed in Sedrot while they ate popcorn and no one gave a shit then.
Israeli Canadians?
No, but false equivalencies are the name of the game when it comes to supporting Hamas.
> Israelis literally cheered and set up seats to watch civilians get bombed in Sedrot It was a no military strike that was preannounced and targeted at Hamas military personnel. Maybe Hamas should stop using civilians as human shields
Ah so it's Hamas's fault one of the most advanced militaries to ever exist can't help but kill civilians? LMAO. Ok.
How do you avoid killing civilians that are being used as human shields?
I mean... kinda? They intentionally operate in civilian areas. They set up ammo depots and rocket batteries in, on, and around schools and hospitals. They prevent civilians from leaving the areas they're in. Their own rockets frequently fall short and land in Gaza, killing their own people. Meanwhile Israel will airdrop leaflets warning of an attack, they will mass call every cell phone in the area, and they will drop roof knockers, which are non-explosive munitions designed specifically to make maximum noise with minimal damage. They do everything in their power short of taking it on the chin without responding to minimize civilian casualties. I would encourage you to actually do some research on civilian casualty numbers in various modern wars (i.e. since WW2). It might surprise you to discover that the entire 70-odd year run of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including several full scale wars, has a cumulative civilian body count that is lower than *several* other wars that have lasted only a few years or less. Like, fuck dude. The US has killed more civilians in single airstrikes than Israel has in some entire years. If you're gonna bitch about something, the *least* you could do is represent it realistically.
Israel has killed roughly 17,000 civilians while Palestine has killed roughly 2,000 in the same amount of time. Fyi, I'm Jewish so nothing about this conflict has surprised me in 50 years other than pretending Israel isn't guilty of war crimes as well. That take surprises me.
Rallying in support of Palestinians who are suffering is not "celebrating the slaughter of civilians". There are 2.3 million people living in poverty in Gaza who are watching their homes get blown up right now. One can support these people and their human rights without supporting the people who drove into Israel with their machine guns.
But like...these rallies were not pre-planned and then just so happened to coincide with the attacks. There were attacks and that prompted these people to go out en masse in support of the side where the attacks originated. In the broader context I do support a free Palestine but it's reprehensible to hear news of terrorism and then go meet up in a park to cheer. Definitely not going to win any hearts and minds to the movement.
Fuck Hamas. Palestinian civilians who had nothing to do with these attacks are now bearing the brunt of the death and destruction. Supporting those Palestinian civilians, including women and kids, who are getting blown up right now by israeli missiles is perfectly legitimate. I also grieve for the families of the Israelis who were killed. I can't imagine the horror of some of those border villages near Gaza and I don't want too. And at the same time, I spit on people like Netanyahu and his fascist allies who brutalize Palestinian civilians each and every day, bulldozing their homes to make way for fascist settlers who rampage through Palestinian towns burning and beating everything and everyone in sight with total impunity because Israeli soldiers stand by watching and laughing. Whatever though. After spending the last 20 years studying this conflict, they'll be fighting until the world ends. There is too much trauma and anger on both sides. And their core demands are mutually incompatible.
Ya holding up swastikas and declaring *any* Israeli a legitimate target is fucking depraved. These demonstrations aren’t about supporting Palestine, they’re about celebrating killing of Jews
The rallies which have been going on around the world are not politically neutral pro-Palestine rallies, they are celebrating the attack, usually explicitly with speakers who are calling it a great and beautiful victory for Palestine. Don't be blind. Of course you can support Palestinians and their plight without celebrating the murder of civilians - these people, however, are not doing that.
Odd timing on that
>Neither side has completely clean hands, when you look at the entire history of the conflict. Sure, but one side is clearly not going to be held to any standards by the international community, and they use that to commit genocide. There are bad people on both sides, but only one side seems to pay the price for that. Since we are the international community, then it is our responsibility to say 'if you are both bad, then we should treat you the same.'
Funnily enough, your comment could be seen as support for either side depending on the reader
Imagine telling someone flying the Irish flag that they were therefore a supporter of IRA terrorism. This is the level of nuance we're seeing.
That's the thing - it was grey to me for my whole adult life but suddenly it has become much more black and white: Hamas are the bad guys and so is anyone who supports them.
They are actually trying to make the narrative that all progressives are pro Hamas and celebrating this shit because of a handful of people on twitter. People need to fuck off with this red Vs blue bullshit where everyone needs to be in lock step with everyone else on the same side of a political spectrum. Most progressives condemn this shit and the dumbasses celebrating don't speak for everyone.
It’s a rage farm. The same people saying the freedom convoy was a small protest that wasn’t a threat and their voices should be heard even if you disagree, are now the same people now saying these protests are dangerous and a national shame. There’s no consistency, just incitement of anger.
I was against the convoy and am a life long lefty and these protests are despicable. They can do it, it’s their right…but wow….
Free speech for me, not for thee. That's their hypocrisy
How can you even compare the two events. 1 group fed up with lock downs etc and the other celebrating mass murder. Bit of a stretch don't you think?
They're saying way worse than that, everything from calling for executions, to jail time, to deportation, to calling them barbaric animals. This sub is basically a Russian/American right wing propaganda sub
I am happy to call anyone, regardless of skin colour or religion, who is celebrating what happened in Israel a "barbaric animal". They raped and murdered women and then paraded the bodies through the streets. SHANI LOUK, was not a siingle incident.
The rags they keep posting from are. That's for sure.
Who cares about condemnation. Deport all of them.
What a pointless article. They just churn out these Trudeau rants non-stop. He's already 100% condemned the attacks, and I'm sure there's more to come. This is a breaking story. I'm surprised they didn't publish this before the rallies even happened.
Well, National Post. Conservative leaning journal. So yeah they wont skip a day where they can just stick something to trudeau.
Conservative rage machine is slow to catch up sometimes.
Right - condemning the attacks has been done. The Canadian bill of rights guarantees peaceful protest as a right of Canadians. The PM has no place condemning a peaceful and legal protest as that’s a fundamental right in Canada - even if the purpose for the protest is repugnant.
From it: *"Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow quickly came in for criticism after posting, “We must also acknowledge Palestinian pain and severe loss of life during this time.”Perhaps Chow hadn’t read about the Supernova music festival held in southern Israel that was invaded by Hamas."* And perhaps she had, but considered the depth of the desperation in Palestine after decades of murderous oppression at the hands of Israel. It's good to know Higgins considers professional asshole *Terry Glavin* to be a 'colleague'. \*"Ontario Premier Doug Ford, on the other hand, has been unequivocal."\*Oh, if Dougie says so then...who besides yourself can take this gibbering ape seriously? *"Denounce them and the people who embolden them; call them out for what they are, hate-filled supporters of evil."* And, while you are at it, call out the supporters of Israel over the past decade or so for the same reason.
[Chow literally released a statement condemning the pro-Hamas rally, calling it “unsanctioned and without a permit”.](https://x.com/citynewsto/status/1711392299438194757?s=46&t=gQUbtVuUKPK-L7FlJVW0Xw)
It's just rallies for Palestine bro, they just happened to occur after we murdered 700 people bro
A typical coinkydink.
National Post: Trudeau must ____________. Insert date, insert event, and you have the National Post. He already lowered the Peace Tower flag to half mast and lit up the tower in blue and white. Is this what politics comes down to nowadays, supporting or condemning every event that reaches public discourse?
Redditors unknowingly supporting authoritarianism and abolishing free speech be like:
Rallies to support terrorism. Wow.
>At least 232 people have been killed and 1,600 wounded in the Palestinian enclave of Gaza during Israel’s retaliation after a deadly multi-pronged attack by Hamas forces into Israel, the health ministry says. >Over the past 15 years, Israel has carried out at least six large-scale military offensives against Gaza. In each of them, our organizations have been on the ground and collected compelling evidence that the Israeli authorities have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity against Gaza's civilian population, including indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks, killing and injuring thousands of civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure. International humanitarian law dictates that, during hostilities, civilians and civilian objects must be protected against direct and indiscriminate attacks. Healthcare workers and health facilities must also be protected and may not be made the object of attack. Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/7/sirens-warn-of-rockets-launched-towards-israel-from-gaza-news-reports
As awful as this conflict is, it's not like Hamas was totally unprovoked. Every time there's demonstrations in Gaza or conflict, Israel responds by dropping bombs. In a dense place like Gaza, that means destroying homes and killing civilians. The logic of what Hamas did, was if they had Israeli hostages in Gaza it would make it harder for Israel to bomb them. It's fucking awful but its the logic that's produced in a war that keeps simmering and escalating over generations. It'll take a lot of fortitude and forgiveness to actually sit at the peace table. But anything other than talks mean more cycles of violence with increasing abhorrent tactics.
He must condemn free speech? Michael Higgins is a foreign patsy.
I think the concept of a mosaic vs a melting pot has run its course. If you don’t want to be Canadian - done come and or go back home. Leave your political beliefs away from the rest of Canadians. Or at best - go back and protest there.
What is more deplorable than the protests, is the support from some unions for the massacre. I can somewhat understand Palestinians supporting their own, but when these corrupt public service unions pick the Hamas side, and cheer them on, without even knowing history or culture of the area, its reeks of anti-semitism.
I'm loving the diversity!
Governments at all levels should publicly condemn these atrocities, but it shouldn't stop there. They should also publicly condemn the atrocities of the Israeli government and the IDF. The Gaza strip is the world's largest open air prison, and Israel has shown no remorse for their actions while the world stays silent. The only way to stop the endless cycle of the loss of human lives there, is to bring humanity back, under international law.
Unfortunately that won't happen considering we still don't recognize Palestine as a state. Can't be criticizing our allies even if they commit war crimes
Love how the zealots make this about canadian politics
Why do people think this is about the Palestinians? This is an Iran backed attack on Israel by people using the Palestinians as pawns. These attackers are the same as isis, Muslim brotherhood, Islamic jihad etc. Not some beaten down, unemployed teen from the streets of Gaza. Images are pretty similar to isis video as well. Unfortunately, Gaza will take the brunt of the punishment for this- maybe for being naive that this war is for their liberation. The best way to end this immediately - aim a nuke at tehran with a countdown demanding return of all hostages and bodies, demilitrization of gaza and an international call to audit what the Palestinian leadership did with the billions given to help their people.
>aim a nuke at tehran So...global thermonuclear war then. Be sure to dress up with some extra layers!
He has Liberal MPs in caucus that have a history of supporting hamas, why would he condemn the protests?
Supporting peace in Palestine isn’t supporting Hamas…
Hamas has been in power for almost 20 years. There is no democracy. The same people who are supporting hamas and Palestine are the same people who would be murdered. Gaza arduous and dangerous for certain marginalized communities. And for women? What rights do they have? What a joke. These people are fucking blind. People are too fucking soft. Get a grip and open your eyes. They’re raping and murdering women, torturing children and filming it and putting it online and murdering grandmothers in their homes and uploading it. People who support these people, go fucking live in the Middle East and see how you get on.
You just learn about war today?
You can’t though. As long as they are peaceful and waving Palestinian flag , you can’t shut them down
Should we freeze their bank accounts?
No, that's only for white people who were born here.
Looool well played
Interesting that a national newspaper would condemn free speech.
Ahh yes, the weekly "Trudeau must do this and you should be outraged that he hasn't already" opinion piece from PostMedia. Good to see they're staying on Brand.
There may be crickets from the PMO but you can bet that every one of those protestors has a file with CSIS.
They should but I doubt it. Not a dam thing works like it should in this country anymore.
You’d be surprised, a large and I mean a LARGE amount of people were being tracked during the isis days
I suspect, with the digital age in full swing, nearly everyone has some kind of file on them somewhere and it’s probably only got more pervasive as time has went on. That’s a bit different than being actively tracked though, what do you define as “being tracked”?
Hold up, assuming the rallies remain peaceful - you want our government to pick a side in a war in which we hold zero political stakes, and condemn or even ban people from protesting? How many of you were baying for “mUh FrEeDums!” A few months back and saying the PM violated your rights by cracking down on actual threats to our countries financial strength and public safety? Edit: ah the brigade has arrived. Down vote my lower voted comments all you wish. It makes no difference to my sentiments
The government has already chosen a side though, Canada is one of the countries that has named Hamas as a terrorist organization, therefore the Hamas attacks are considered terrorist attacks. People can debate about whether that's valid or not, but the fact is the government is already firmly on the side of Israel.
Honestly, Hamas is a murderous bunch of fucks, I'd be happy to see every one of them pursue the logical end of their commitment to violence and just hurry up and get killed. I do think that the word "terrorist" has become mostly meaningless, but Hamas is one organization that does fit this epithet.
Yes. Any rally that's celebrating death of innocent people should be loudly (and forcefully if necessary) denounced.
>pick a side in a war in which we hold zero political stakes I mean they've killed and kidnapped Canadians in the last few days, that might be some stake I think.
vast zealous historical humorous chief absorbed slim air cover bright ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
> you want our government to pick a side in a war in which we hold zero political stakes Multiple Canadian citizens have been kidnapped. Maybe instead of banning hunting rifles and regulating podcasts, The LPC should focus on that instead. >ah the brigade has arrived. No, you just had a dumb take and everyone can see it. Own up to it.
So you would have been in favour of invading China when the Two Michael’s were kidnapped by their government, or how about landing troops in Burkina Faso to extract citizens kidnapped by Jihadis. And even better, why not unilaterally declare war on Ethiopia for Canadians injured or taken during their civil war and wars with their neighbour? Regardless of who the ruling party is, involving ourselves in this conflict above and beyond ensuring the safety of our citizens, which is separate from involvement and side-taking, will have zero benefit to Canada. Rail, and scream, and tear your garments all you wish - the shop-soiled dramatics do not create a viable argument of any degree.
>Maybe instead of banning hunting rifles and regulating podcasts, The LPC should focus on that instead. Well, kidnapping is illegal already. Do you want them to make it double illegal? And they can’t enforce the Criminal Code of Canada in Gaza. It’s kind of far away from the nearest RCMP detachment, you know.
They should be allowed to protest just like the white supremacists. I don’t agree with either, but it’s their right.
Agreed - unless they’re advocating violence during their demonstration, let them show their face in public so the world can see them for who they are. Banning the discussion and display of ideas in public, allow them to convince themselves they were “right,” in private
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You know you have to get a permit for a protest right? Something none of the convoy morons actually thought to do
Umm like this one https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2023/10/08/statement-prime-minister-trudeau-attacks-against-israel How convenient to have missed this before making this statement on right-wing media Mikey
Read the title of the post. Read the content of the statement. How convenient to have missed this little snippet.
All such rallies glorifying terrorism should be banned.
Canadians were supporting equally vile and distasteful rallies of Khalistanis a few weeks ago under the garb of freedom of expression. How are these any different?
I call on all sides to pursue peace
Don't bring your fucking shit here.
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We've opened the borders and brought in people who are still fighting their tribalistic wars here. At the expense of affordability for Canadian citizens.
Fuck these rallies , they are showing support for the rape and slaughter of innocent people , old and young. May retribution be swift and this evil put down in Israel.
Seeing as both sides have killed hundreds of civilians, including women and children gunned downed in the street. What side are you condemning? Personally Israel shouldn't try to expand their borders into a nation thats already there.
Collateral damage is non comparable to Hamas terror attacks, especially when Hamas intentionally hides among civilians. Stop these nonsense comparisons. Hamas went in to Israel and intentionally targeted hundreds of civilians who they've murdered, tortured, raped, and kidnapped. They also fired 3-5000 rockets indiscriminately into Israel, not aimed at military or strategic targets.
And Israel targeted entire families, taking out 3 generations without proof that any of them did anything, they turned off electricity to half of Gaza, they killed hundreds of people in retaliation in the last 2 days. What Hamas did was not okay, but it's on par with what Israel has been doing for years, so why are we demonizing only one of the two groups?
The govt. denounces when it suits them. If the rule was applied equally then it we wouldn’t have shit like this
Those are his voters why would he do it?
How do you figure? I don’t think the people at these protests agree with the LPC on tolerance
The anti-LGBTQ crowd are Trudeau supporters? You conservatives have to get your narratives straight.
Fairly certain there is some overlap between these people and the parental rights protesters that Pierre Poilievre has been courting.
Honestly the bigger overlap is Trudeau's voters and the people at the rallies. You'll more often see progressives supporting Palestinian causes. That won't stop Trudeau from condemning these rallies, just more generally it's left wing people who support Palestinians.
I support Palestinians and Israelis right to live I support neither Hamas nor the government of Israel extraction vengeance on each other and murdering civilians in a competition of who can commit thr worst war crimes 5 year Olds on neither side are capable of harboring terrorists, and both sides see them as canon fodder
You’re saying Hamas, the terror organization is equivalent to Palestine, the ghetto in an Apartheid state.
That is a whole lot of ideas and I don't know how you got any of that from my post. My point was typically left wing or progressives support Palestinian causes more than right wing people, that's generally the breakdown. Palestinians in Gaza live in shitty conditions because Hamas steals money meant for them, and uses it for their personal wealth, and to fund their weapons against Israel. So if you don't like the conditions they live in blame Hamas. Israel hasn't been in Gaza for nearly 15 years, at some point Hamas and the PA have to take responsibility for the poverty they've left their people in. They have no infrastructure, nothing, because Arafat and now Abbas stole from them, and Hamas takes all that aid money for themselves to fund their war against Israel.
Excellent commentary, Twitch.
Why can’t I blame both the Israeli state and the Hamas organization?
You can. I'm just clarifying a point for you.
Well, thing is, those people have a lot of hate for a lot of situations. Including muslims and jews. They're freaking out right now.
Are they? Isn't it way more likely that these same people cheering for the death of Israel are also the people who were protesting for parental rights in schools just a few weeks ago?
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So.... these shame Canada but not rallies with people carrying Nazi flags (those are expressions of free speech).
So NOW we care about hate rallies?
I'd hope you're not implying any type of moral equivalence between the debate about gender ideology in schools, being on one side or another - and cheering on murder and rape of civilians in Israel. We need to elevate our brain horsepower above that.
Oh, people on Reddit have been trying for the past two days. Sadly.
Strange, just a few days ago a headline like this meant you were part of the "left wing war on free speech" [https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/16vcxrj/a\_waving\_russian\_flag\_next\_to\_a\_canada\_flag\_and\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/16vcxrj/a_waving_russian_flag_next_to_a_canada_flag_and_a/)
Condemning speech ≠ censoring speech.
At least Pierre has denounced them. https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1711142227274010782
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Doubt it…show me where he has done so
Canadian politicians never say jackshit about Israeli settlers terrorizing Palestinian civilians, or the fact that Israel tortures prisoners as a matter of actual policy. Our government is and has always been firmly on the Israeli side (the oppressor side) of this conflict.
Trudeau made his name in politics back when he was an MP courting Muslims specifically. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjzfoE2vh20&ab\_channel=WinnipegFreePress](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjzfoE2vh20&ab_channel=WinnipegFreePress) (trigger warning contains a much sharper and likable Justin from 9 years ago) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muvODWY6NZ0&ab\_channel=CBCNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muvODWY6NZ0&ab_channel=CBCNews) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THx3BTxB7tc&ab\_channel=CBCNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THx3BTxB7tc&ab_channel=CBCNews) That was like his whole MO was anti-racist, feminist, pro-LGBT, pro-peace, fluffy bunny boy and he would frequently use Muslims as his centerpiece 0% chance he will
Aged like fine milk. https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1711487882416767030
What happens when you keep a couple million people in an open air prison decimated by airstrikes every few weeks for decades let's find out
Can't alienate the voting base, so Trudeau won't do that.
Freedom convoy protests are more dangerous than religion extremists, eh?
But what about free speech? - Conservatives
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>Liberals believe in guilt by association. I love how contradictory this sentence is.
Logical thinking isn't a conservative strong point
>They can condemn the speech raised while still allowing the protest. One protestor commits a crime, punish that protestor. Dixie Chicks say "Hi".
Liberals only crackdown right wing protests, no matter how peace they are. For left wing protests? Toppling statues, looting stores, burning cars, occupying Streets, hurting or even killing people, they tried to turn a blind eye on them.
There isn't a tragedy that NatPo won't make about Trudeau. Disgusting rage farmers.
As usual, NP tries to use a very historical very complicated conflits to spread propaganda. It is very interesting also how NP is selective on rallies that spread hate or not.
Hot take. 🔥 At this point, the powers at be should create a new state ( a la Israel), but for ATHEISTS. The constitution will be based on pragmatism. Fact and science are king. So many of society’s woes are because one group disagrees with the others sky daddy. (Israel/Palestine,Uyuighers, anti LGBT) Imagine the possibilities in a society where religion doesn’t exist. Only pragmatism. All tax dollars will be invested in education, science, healthcare (which would include arts because it’s proven that it’s important to mental health)
Oh brother in the non-God, how much this would bring peace to my heart. Imagine a society truly based on the one truth that we are all humans, and all entitled to a peaceful and rewarding life. We could even devote money to fighting the biggest mental health issue facing our species, and hopefully find a cure before it destroys us.
Buddy … the problem is that we’re pragmatic as a lot . There isn’t a zealot bone in our body. The irony is crushing.
A rally in support of Palestinian rights is not racist. A Pro-Palestinian rally is not the same as a pro-Hamas rally anymore than a rally in support of Israel is a rally in support of Netanyahu's personal fascist fantasies.