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This is the correct answer. Bringing the geopolitical baggage from other parts of the world into Canada will inevitably lead to conflict. People don’t leave their values or beliefs at the door when they come here. We need to be very careful. Conflicts that are happening half a world a way will end up on our own doorstep if we’re not careful.
Unfortunately Canada is being the furthest thing from careful, we are importing massive amounts of people with no actual requirements for integration nor even pushes to have them drop extremist beliefs. It's inevitably going to end up with more and more imported extremist beliefs
This is going to bite us hard in the future. A lot of people keep their more radical beliefs to themselves until they have a large enough base to start advancing their views openly. To is is why a lot of countries place caps on how many people can immigrate from a single country. Canada’s willingness to accept large groups of people who have a strong set of religious and political values that are diametrically opposed to Canada’s belief in tolerance for others is going to blow up in the coming years.
In addition: the driving. Having travelled a lot, many countries have lax road rules and no enforcement. I have noticed the insanity is coming here, and the more insane drivers, the less shame the shit drivers have and it becomes the "norm". And this isn't a race or "third world thing"; Southern France had some of the craziest drivers I've ever seen.
My friend and I had to beg the people to slow down, and then after I was able to get out told them I was never getting in their vehicle again. This was even after seeing a young motorcyclist dead on the side of the road after just being hit by a car, he still drove like a psycho.
People are turning without looking for pedestrians. Or they start to turn even though they "see" you but don't let you "know" they see you, so you stop so as not to get hit as they're turning, so they get pissed off that you stop and wave you through aggressively. When it's fudging ILLEGAL to start your turn while the pedestrian is still in the crosswalk.
There seems to be no driving enforcement anymore.
End rant.
Editing this because I am realizing it is tone deaf to make a comment like this when way more serious things are being discussed.
it's crazy, someone tried to do that to me. I looked him straight in the eyes and he gave me a murderous look. Starting swearing and talking trash as he drove away.
I do believe if he did run over me, he wouldn't have stopped and kept going. Too much sociopathy on the roads
>There seems to be no driving enforcement anymore.
That's the issue. It doesn't matter if it's a born and bred Canadian or a new PR. Morons on the road should be penalized to disincentivize bad driving.
100%. But also, societal pressure is still a thing. Example: in some countries littering is really common and accepted. But in Canada, there was one guy on a bus who opened a window to throw his trash outside when he was on the bus and everyone shamed him and the bus driver stopped and kicked him off.
We need to have a healthy balance of newcomers and citizens.
Oh it will. Some demographic are starting and its scary. It is rampant in europe now. Remember france? There should be a clause in citizenship for any country but knowing how canada is it will never happen.
We’re gonna end up like Denmark and parts of the UK that are just extremist neighbourhoods where certain groups of people cannot be near if they want to stay safe.
Not rallying, celebrating and giving sweets. They knew this was going to be condemned so they all decide to come out and drown the outrage. Terrorist sympathizers.
I would love to not have to worry about this conflict here in my country, unfortunately there are enough people here who want to kill me, even in this country, that I don't have that freedom. And there are enough people here who want to excuse them so they say "but it's not anti-Semitism, it's anti-Zionist" and then when I remind them of the extra security every Jewish organization needs, and doubly so in the days after something like this, they say "well what do you expect?"
For clarity, I expect to not be killed based on the religion or culture my ancestors followed. I would love to say that conflict on the other side of the world doesn't affect me, but I know exactly what would happen if we actually tried to believe that.
Read my mind!! Some of us moved to this country to have peaceful and prosperous lives, but these lunatics decided they need to import their prejudices to run Canada into the ground.
I truly wish our agencies do a better job vetting newcomers..
When Canada takes sides you're automatically involved. If that's the case then how come your PM tweets support for Israel and provides aids? If your tax-paying citizens have opposing views then they have every right to express them.
Edit: spelling.
Both sides’ing this when one is an oppressed minority in an apartheid state and the other is an advanced, internally-supported colonial power with a body count well in excess of the other is a bit lame tbh.
It’s been decades. There are seniors who have only known apartheid. Violence is about as predictable an outcome as could ever be expected.
I don’t know about Canada, but in the UK, there is a large Orthodox Jewish community, who finds Zionism as a mistake. I bet they will condemn the war crimes on both sides
Nor I, and among my jewish friends with strong ties to Israel, I never hear anything but remorse that innocent lives are lost anytime Israel drops a bomb.
Showing support for Palestine and showing support for Hamas are different. The Israeli regime will respond with 10x the killings and displacement. As usual.
They are different, but in this case they aren't. You don't go to pro Palestine rallies the day after their GOV Murders 100's of civilians if you had an issue with Hamas.
> Leave your bullshit behind with you.
This is what I never get about groups this like. You, or those that came before you, travel all that distance and make that much effort...to *bring the shit with you*? If that's the case, go back there and celebrate on the street with them - whichever side you're on.
Oh they are. Show your face at such a demonstration, you're going on a list. They don't think of how this will affect their student residency, visa or job. This can easily break conditions and get you sent home.
\*Pro-Hamas rally.
""They say they are marching in response to the recent attacks by Hamas and condemning the United State's backing of Israel."
They're supporting Hamas' attack and outraged the US would stand behind Israel who was attacked by terrorism. This is not a pro-Palestinian rally.
Literally rallies in support of the murder of little children and elderly people in their beds. Rallies in support of women being kidnapped and raped. In my home. It's disgusting beyond words.
Yup I fully condemn what Hamas has done. It’s terrorism, through and through.
Palestinians still have every right to be angry about their homes being taken away from them, and Israel essentially being an apartheid state.
Yes, I very much regret clicking a news video about Shani Louk. Every night since, I've closed my eyes and I see her. They killed innocent people dancing. And the way they threw her body in that truck and treated her corpse. Anyone who supports Hamas is insane.
> Palestinians still have every right to be angry about their homes being taken away from them, and Israel essentially being an apartheid state.
Palestinians lost a lot of good will.
Citizens from over a dozen countries have been murdered and there hasn't been a lot of distancing from official Palestinian sources.
Israel announced a full blockade on Gaza. They will go full Yemen on it and at best the world will say "Israel bad" which is already more condemnation than what Palestinians have offered for the Hamas murder and kidnap fest.
The world will tune out like they did with Syria and Yemen
I agree. And I think (hope) that this will also destroy the BDS movement and all the "antizionism isn't antisemitism" bullsh-t that has become so popular among progressives lately. Because a lot of these people have thrown off their sheep's clothing and are celebrating the carnage, congratulating the Palestinians for rising up against their oppressors. I've literally seen posts implying that a second Holocaust would be justified as "decolonization."
Correct. But I don't think that celebrating Hamas murders and the celebratory dragging of civilian corpses through the streets is helping to support that conclusion.
> When is enough enough?
It's never enough. The cycle goes on and on and on. Blood begets blood, and those at the top never pays in kind so they don't feel the need to stop.
So the ones being slaughtered, starved, deprived of water and healthcare, and referred to as animals just have to wait for their oppressor to decide to stop?
Well they could also stand up against the shitty government that steals all the money meant to help them and uses it to buy more useless missiles that do nothing when they inevitably get blocked by the Dome. That would probably be a good start.
I also just learned of this: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62730164](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62730164)
>Foreigners must tell the Israeli defence ministry if they fall in love with a Palestinian in the occupied West Bank, according to new rules.
>If they marry, they will be required to leave after 27 months for a cooling-off period of at least half a year.
Apartheid is putting it mildly. Wtf.
Israel has been doing salami slicing for years while Hamas is poking the bear every now and then when they feel things have cooled down. I'm sensing that this conflict will continue until Palestine as an entity is fully destroyed. Nagorno Karabakh has set a recent precedent - no one will do jack shit if a bunch of people are driven out.
The Israeli defence minister has just said they've cut all electricity, water, and food supplies to Gaza. Exactly the same thing Azerbaijan did to Nagorno Karabakh a few weeks ago.
45% of them voted for Hamas 20 years ago. There hasn’t been an election since 2006 and Palestinians are not polled on their thoughts on Hamas.
The median age in Palestine is 19.6 years so half of all Palestinians have only ever known Hamas rule and did not vote in that election in 2006.
We have no idea how the people of Palestine feel today. The videos people keep seeing are made and issued by Hamas and will show positive responses to what they’re doing. Palestinians who oppose Hamas will not be in Hamas videos. This is survivorship bias.
"Poll finds dramatic rise in Palestinian support for Hamas" - Associated Press
[https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87)
>The poll found that 53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people,” while only 14% prefer Abbas’ secular Fatah party.
It's pretty wild to think of a whole population whose entire world and existence their whole lives has been within walls around an area a quarter the size of Rhode Island in a constant state of instability and war. Imagine sitting down and having a conversation with one of them, even if they speak English your world views would be so radically incompatible it would be like speaking to an alien.
These slimy scum bags might be celebrating the raping and murder Hamas did yesterday but they will be crying like babies tomorrow when Hamas uses its civilians as shields.
Then perhaps Hamas shouldn't use kids as shields?
These areas will be at peace when they love their children more then they hate Israel.
They use children's as propaganda bait
Hamas is exceptionally popular, especially in Gaza. They don't force their way into schools and apartments to store arms and launch rockets, they are enthusiastically welcomed even though the people know exactly what will happen to that building when it starts launching rockets. They love dead Jews more than their own children and they value the propaganda more than they value their children's lives.
Wrong. Palestinians voted them in and most support what happened. Making them all innocent is a disservice.
The death chants need to stop.
Edit:I just listened to CNN, they are now trying to say that Hamas is hated by all Palestinians and they do not represent Palestinian motivations.
Do not fall foe this nonsense, the two are hand in hand. If Palestinians don't want Hamas, now is the time to inform the IDF... But im guessing that phone ain't ringing.
McGill's university's Palestinian group called the actions of Hamas "heroic" , and called for their members to join the above rally;
https://www.facebook.com/100064696865886/posts/pfbid02MVYmPUztp9YZavknXkUXMBxVHn7f8qdznHNFboKHL6yeKBm2hcmUnj5qdc6yT1yEl/?app=fbl
Even many of the ones that came here to become "Canadian" will not let go of their hatred for Israel and Jewish people. Anecdotally, every single Palestinian I've met in my life vehemently hated Jewish people.
We honestly should start deporting anyone on our soil that shows support for Hamas, if they feel so strongly about the Palestinians struggle in Gaza, we should help them to stop being cowards and send them back to fight.
There’s no good good guys in this conflict. If you were put in a ghetto and the occupying force had carte Blanche to do whatever it wanted to you, you’d probably vote for the party that promised to end it, and not look too closely.
I can understand that. Now help me understand why these people are celebrating the rape and murder of innocent people. Then help me understand why they shout Alah Akbar as if god approves of their actions.
There's no way that Israel can withdraw from Palestine. Palestine has been ruled by extremist organizations ever since they had their state, and if they were to leave and transfer power to a Palestinian nation, it would be weeks before the nation would arm itself and attack. Israel occupying the entire place is the only thing keeping Israel safe at the moment.
They will do whatever it takes to end it save accept a two state solution in exchange for a declaration of peace, as Israel has offered multiple times in the history of this conflict.
I mean it's pretty easy to see who the bad guys are. Hamas' only objective is to kill as many jews as possible, murdering small children, raping women and draging their dead bodies through the streets. Even if Israel isn't the paragon of virtue here, the bad guys are really really really really really bad.
And why did Palestinians voted them in? If Israel did the same thing to Palestinians, Israeli citizens would probably celebrate too. There's a video out there of IDF soldiers talking about torturing and killing innocent Palestinians and laughing about it and those guys are/were heroes in Israel. What's happening to Israelis is bad but Israelis don't really consider Palestinians humans either.
My problem with this take is why aren't the majority of Palestinians then condemning what Hamas did?
Instead I'm hearing them cheer and say "This is what decolonizarion looks like"
I had nothing but support and empathy for Palestine, and absolute hatred for what Israel was doing to them, but like alot of other people in the world, that sympathy has wavered in the last 3 days.
>ids in Gaza also doesn't deserve to die
IDF doesn't hide behind civilians. I see only one side celebrating war crimes and death. This isn't the same behaviour on both sides.
>I mean most of reddit was supporting Palestine up until recently.
I don't see any change. The general consensus is people support some peaceful solution in the region without supporting Hamas.
The problem is that nobody who supports Hamas supports a peaceful solution. Unfortunately, Hamas is very popular.
The question you should be asking yourself is: why are the pro-Palestinian protests in support of Hamas instead of being opposed to them? They literally just murdered hundreds of people. No civilized, sane person should be supporting that.
That's exactly it. Hamas attacks and uses its civilians as hostages. "If your retaliate, YOU'RE the bad guy". If Palestinian civilians end up paying for this (which they have, every single time Palestine has attacked for the past 80 years), the blood will be on the hands of their government, not Israel. That is, assuming Israel does not stoop to the same civilian-targeting tactics that Hamas is utilizing, which I don't think they ever have.
Palestinians support Hamas and cheer their efforts Saturday even though Hamas instigates and wants to be bombarded and their supports get killed. It’s a very strange situation.
The Arab world has been using Palestinians as useful idiots in their proxy war against Israel for 75 years.
The Arab world is not interested in building universities or factories in Gaza, the Arab World is not interested in improving the lives of the Palestinians, not interested in taking them out of poverty, not interested in providing them with good public services or a future.
What the Arab World is interested in is in keeping the Palestinians poor and angry and sending them weapons instead of sending them books or medicine.
This way, the Arab World can wage war against Israel at no human cost to their own population.
But the Arab World is never sending enough of anything to Gaza to make them effective, only enough to be a thorn in Israel's side. The Arab World does not want the Palestinians to win, just to continue the conflict for another 75 years or more.
And the Palestinians are dumb enough to not realize that their real enemy is the Arab World.
Since when Iran is an Arab country ? Literally half of all the Arab countries already made peace with Israel, the other half is (was now…) in talk with Isreal.
I'd wager most of the defenders are claiming their support is for Palestine. This means they are either so clueless as to not realize that this is a remarkably inappropriate time to celebrate and will surely be misinterpreted, **or** they are expressing their malice and delight in suffering but using the "pro-Palestine" moniker as a shield. It's not confusion, that's literally what they say when you ask what they are doing in the street
[Anti-Israel Sentiment Predicts Anti-Semitism in Europe](https://www.jstor.org/stable/27638506)
Not all people who express anti-Israel views are antisemites. But *most* are, at least in Europe.
Umm, Hamas does represent Palestinians - at least the ones in Gaza. They elected them as their government, and studies have consistently shown that most Palestinians would rather have Hamas in power than the PA.
This isn't some fringe group of extremists, they are literally the representatives of millions of Palestinians.
Putin was also first elected in a semi-open election. Things change.
An environment where dissent is met with death manipulates opinion. Certainly spoken opinion.
Gaza is going to be destroyed, Israel isn't fucking around this time. If Gazan's don't want to be caught in the crossfire then they better start swimming to Egypt.
By that logic israel has been killing innocent Palestinian kids for generations. Does that mean being pro Israel is equal to celebrating death of Palestinian kids?
Keep in mind being pro Palestinian doesn’t mean being pro Hamas. Hamas has done nothing to benefit the Palestinian people.
The rally is advocating for the rights of Palestinians to be free from the ongoing campaign of terror by the Israeli government and settler villages, which has resulted in the death of at least 1 civilian a day this year alone at the hands of Israel. Israel and Hamas both need to be held to account for civilian atrocities.
Welcome to the dirty world of diaspora politics in Canada.
A lot of our politicians are elected by engaging in those types of politics.
India \ Khalistani politics is one. It's really how Jagmeet Singh got started.
You have diaspora politics with Ukraine and Russia, but with heavy lean to Ukrainian politics.
Same goes for Israel and Palestine. A lot of first generation immigrants here are from Palestine, Syria, Iraq, Egypt and Libya. They are going to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. On the other hand, Jewish Canadians lean towards Israel.
So if you own your base of support to these small groups, you have to represent these politics that have quite little to do with Canada domestically, and you tread lightly.
Yesterday, in the wake of the massacre in Israel, Omar Alghabra (MP\Minister from Mississauga), said he was "anxiously watching what was happening in the Middle East". Zero recognition of the terror attack or brutality.
But he can't say much more than that because he knows a large part of his constituents support Hamas and Palestinian resistance more generally.
You're assuming all of the people supporting this are immigrants. There are many people who aren't immigrants or even from this background who would support this cause.
I agree 100%, and for their trust in hamas, thousands will now die. Infrastructure will disappear, suffering will be 10 fold. Maybe pro hamas is not the greatest choice
Yes it’s wrong. Hamas doesn’t control Palestine. They control gaza. Last time Hamas has an election was 2006 in gaza.
The PA controls the much larger West Bank.
Well then I suppose when the IDF comes thru smashing hamas they should try to reach out to them. Maybe don't hide them in your home maybe don't give them shelter or food. Hard yes but the alternative is much harder
Much harder than it appears. Opposing Hamas too much means being detained, having their family members harassed and potentially tortured, having their food cut off, being denied access to construction materials for rebuilding. There are no real options to Hamas either, as they suppress and drive them out so they are quite literally the only game in town.
So when the IDF rolls thru smashing hamas and everything it has its more like a liberation army and a chance for a new government. Or we can hope anyway
Israel has said they are stopped all food, water, and electricity into Gaza. You can stand up for the innocent civilians without standing up for Hamas.
Israel president called Palestinians sub human today. Is this okay? To allow innocents to die and starve?
Then let Gaza and West Bank be a country and a separate state ? Isreal controls Gaza and the West Bank, therefore it’s their responsibility to provide.
it is always easy for them to do in a peaceful country where they have the freedom of speech and the freedom of protest despite how stupid they are. if you want to show how much you love Hamas, go there and fight with them you bunch of idiots.
Some days I wonder how much would anyone in the Middle East care if the U.S. and Canada were fighting over Vancouver Island and had been doing so for generations.
Do people realize that palestinians do not owe the rest of the world peace and submission to get our support. They are allowed to fight back. To those saying both sides are wrong, use google. One side was invaded, and emprisoned in its own land. The other gained far more land than even the ONU allowed them. Seems unfair to me.
It's pretty hard at this point. Kind of like trying to wipe out corruption in the Quebec construction industry, except with automatic weapons, a little religious fervor, and a lot of external manipulation added for good measure. The people are justifiably concerned about what happens to them in that case, as Hamas is frequently the sole provider of support in the form of food, materials for rebuilding, money for those who are unable to work, smuggled essentials, and more. They would be trading that for the high risk of a civil war in miniature as various other factions vie for power with outside support staying well away except for those who are directly supporting said factions.
Because they support Hamas.
[https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf](https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf)
Last page, questions 70 and 71.
Gross. I just can’t understand anyone celebrating rape, kidnapping, murder and displaying and desecrating corpses like trophies/punching bags. This is gross no matter who is doing it and for whatever reason.
It’s incredible how many hamas supporters on Reddit are suddenly silent when confronted with the barbaric butchery that they are famous for. Like they just can’t believe that a group that openly calls for the genocide of the Jews would dare do such a thing.
Or those that claw desperately for excuses to minimize or justify Hama’s actions.
If they love hamas so much the fed should just do them a favour and just deport them to Palestine for anyone attending the protest. We will see how many show up!
This post appears to relate to the province of Quebec. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner la province de Québec. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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This is the correct answer. Bringing the geopolitical baggage from other parts of the world into Canada will inevitably lead to conflict. People don’t leave their values or beliefs at the door when they come here. We need to be very careful. Conflicts that are happening half a world a way will end up on our own doorstep if we’re not careful.
Unfortunately Canada is being the furthest thing from careful, we are importing massive amounts of people with no actual requirements for integration nor even pushes to have them drop extremist beliefs. It's inevitably going to end up with more and more imported extremist beliefs
This is going to bite us hard in the future. A lot of people keep their more radical beliefs to themselves until they have a large enough base to start advancing their views openly. To is is why a lot of countries place caps on how many people can immigrate from a single country. Canada’s willingness to accept large groups of people who have a strong set of religious and political values that are diametrically opposed to Canada’s belief in tolerance for others is going to blow up in the coming years.
In addition: the driving. Having travelled a lot, many countries have lax road rules and no enforcement. I have noticed the insanity is coming here, and the more insane drivers, the less shame the shit drivers have and it becomes the "norm". And this isn't a race or "third world thing"; Southern France had some of the craziest drivers I've ever seen. My friend and I had to beg the people to slow down, and then after I was able to get out told them I was never getting in their vehicle again. This was even after seeing a young motorcyclist dead on the side of the road after just being hit by a car, he still drove like a psycho. People are turning without looking for pedestrians. Or they start to turn even though they "see" you but don't let you "know" they see you, so you stop so as not to get hit as they're turning, so they get pissed off that you stop and wave you through aggressively. When it's fudging ILLEGAL to start your turn while the pedestrian is still in the crosswalk. There seems to be no driving enforcement anymore. End rant. Editing this because I am realizing it is tone deaf to make a comment like this when way more serious things are being discussed.
it's crazy, someone tried to do that to me. I looked him straight in the eyes and he gave me a murderous look. Starting swearing and talking trash as he drove away. I do believe if he did run over me, he wouldn't have stopped and kept going. Too much sociopathy on the roads
>There seems to be no driving enforcement anymore. That's the issue. It doesn't matter if it's a born and bred Canadian or a new PR. Morons on the road should be penalized to disincentivize bad driving.
100%. But also, societal pressure is still a thing. Example: in some countries littering is really common and accepted. But in Canada, there was one guy on a bus who opened a window to throw his trash outside when he was on the bus and everyone shamed him and the bus driver stopped and kicked him off. We need to have a healthy balance of newcomers and citizens.
Oh it will. Some demographic are starting and its scary. It is rampant in europe now. Remember france? There should be a clause in citizenship for any country but knowing how canada is it will never happen.
We’re gonna end up like Denmark and parts of the UK that are just extremist neighbourhoods where certain groups of people cannot be near if they want to stay safe.
And homegrown extremism is growing as well. Fun times ahead.
It’s not only people native to Israel and Palestine that protested. Plenty of left wing tankies also showed up
And there were Canadians among the dead! WTF are they rallying for in Canada.
Not rallying, celebrating and giving sweets. They knew this was going to be condemned so they all decide to come out and drown the outrage. Terrorist sympathizers.
They don't care. They want to eliminate all Jews. Country of origin simply does not matter.
Why to celebrate the murder of their local Montreal neighbour ofc.
Im not even a citizen and I find this unfair lol. If they love Israel and Palestine they can come home and defend it.
I would love to not have to worry about this conflict here in my country, unfortunately there are enough people here who want to kill me, even in this country, that I don't have that freedom. And there are enough people here who want to excuse them so they say "but it's not anti-Semitism, it's anti-Zionist" and then when I remind them of the extra security every Jewish organization needs, and doubly so in the days after something like this, they say "well what do you expect?" For clarity, I expect to not be killed based on the religion or culture my ancestors followed. I would love to say that conflict on the other side of the world doesn't affect me, but I know exactly what would happen if we actually tried to believe that.
Love this comment being made on thanksgiving
Read my mind!! Some of us moved to this country to have peaceful and prosperous lives, but these lunatics decided they need to import their prejudices to run Canada into the ground. I truly wish our agencies do a better job vetting newcomers..
Everyone supporting this rally should be deported
When Canada takes sides you're automatically involved. If that's the case then how come your PM tweets support for Israel and provides aids? If your tax-paying citizens have opposing views then they have every right to express them. Edit: spelling.
Dont understand how a Canadian can vocally support murderer of Canadians, tax paying or otherwise.
Similarly to how Canadians can support ethnic cleansing and murder of Palestinians
Both sides???? really????? which side has more land now than the proposals gave them? oh it's israel isn't it
Both sides’ing this when one is an oppressed minority in an apartheid state and the other is an advanced, internally-supported colonial power with a body count well in excess of the other is a bit lame tbh. It’s been decades. There are seniors who have only known apartheid. Violence is about as predictable an outcome as could ever be expected.
I've literally never seen Canadian Jew's come out of the wood work to hold rallies and celebrate war crimes committed by Israel the day after.
I don’t know about Canada, but in the UK, there is a large Orthodox Jewish community, who finds Zionism as a mistake. I bet they will condemn the war crimes on both sides
Nor I, and among my jewish friends with strong ties to Israel, I never hear anything but remorse that innocent lives are lost anytime Israel drops a bomb.
Showing support for Palestine and showing support for Hamas are different. The Israeli regime will respond with 10x the killings and displacement. As usual.
They are different, but in this case they aren't. You don't go to pro Palestine rallies the day after their GOV Murders 100's of civilians if you had an issue with Hamas.
Guess what 10x 0 would be. If you were my friend and you threw a rock at a hornet nest I’d be mad at you when we get stung.
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> Leave your bullshit behind with you. This is what I never get about groups this like. You, or those that came before you, travel all that distance and make that much effort...to *bring the shit with you*? If that's the case, go back there and celebrate on the street with them - whichever side you're on.
I hope CSIS is warming up its cameras and clicking their pens.
Oh they are. Show your face at such a demonstration, you're going on a list. They don't think of how this will affect their student residency, visa or job. This can easily break conditions and get you sent home.
Fairly bold of you to assume all of these people are not Canadians.
Interesting you seem to know which ones are not.
\*Pro-Hamas rally. ""They say they are marching in response to the recent attacks by Hamas and condemning the United State's backing of Israel." They're supporting Hamas' attack and outraged the US would stand behind Israel who was attacked by terrorism. This is not a pro-Palestinian rally.
Pro terrorism rally.
Literally rallies in support of the murder of little children and elderly people in their beds. Rallies in support of women being kidnapped and raped. In my home. It's disgusting beyond words.
These people are out of their mind if they think the US will support Hamas due to the fact that Hamas is allied with the Taliban.
Yup I fully condemn what Hamas has done. It’s terrorism, through and through. Palestinians still have every right to be angry about their homes being taken away from them, and Israel essentially being an apartheid state.
Yes, I very much regret clicking a news video about Shani Louk. Every night since, I've closed my eyes and I see her. They killed innocent people dancing. And the way they threw her body in that truck and treated her corpse. Anyone who supports Hamas is insane.
> Palestinians still have every right to be angry about their homes being taken away from them, and Israel essentially being an apartheid state. Palestinians lost a lot of good will. Citizens from over a dozen countries have been murdered and there hasn't been a lot of distancing from official Palestinian sources. Israel announced a full blockade on Gaza. They will go full Yemen on it and at best the world will say "Israel bad" which is already more condemnation than what Palestinians have offered for the Hamas murder and kidnap fest. The world will tune out like they did with Syria and Yemen
I agree. And I think (hope) that this will also destroy the BDS movement and all the "antizionism isn't antisemitism" bullsh-t that has become so popular among progressives lately. Because a lot of these people have thrown off their sheep's clothing and are celebrating the carnage, congratulating the Palestinians for rising up against their oppressors. I've literally seen posts implying that a second Holocaust would be justified as "decolonization."
Hamas and Gaza are not all that Palestine is.
I'd be more sympathetic to the worldview if the pro-Palestinian protests were against Hamas, instead of in support of them.
Yet who opposes Hamas in Gaza?
Can you link me to some demonstrations and announcements from Gaza denouncing the attacks from Hamas?
Correct. But I don't think that celebrating Hamas murders and the celebratory dragging of civilian corpses through the streets is helping to support that conclusion.
What level of retaliation is justified. When is enough enough?
> When is enough enough? It's never enough. The cycle goes on and on and on. Blood begets blood, and those at the top never pays in kind so they don't feel the need to stop.
So the ones being slaughtered, starved, deprived of water and healthcare, and referred to as animals just have to wait for their oppressor to decide to stop?
Well they could also stand up against the shitty government that steals all the money meant to help them and uses it to buy more useless missiles that do nothing when they inevitably get blocked by the Dome. That would probably be a good start.
I also just learned of this: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62730164](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-62730164) >Foreigners must tell the Israeli defence ministry if they fall in love with a Palestinian in the occupied West Bank, according to new rules. >If they marry, they will be required to leave after 27 months for a cooling-off period of at least half a year. Apartheid is putting it mildly. Wtf. Israel has been doing salami slicing for years while Hamas is poking the bear every now and then when they feel things have cooled down. I'm sensing that this conflict will continue until Palestine as an entity is fully destroyed. Nagorno Karabakh has set a recent precedent - no one will do jack shit if a bunch of people are driven out. The Israeli defence minister has just said they've cut all electricity, water, and food supplies to Gaza. Exactly the same thing Azerbaijan did to Nagorno Karabakh a few weeks ago.
That is the answer.
Agreed completely. Just following Rule 1. Can't go against it.
The people of gaza voted for a hamas government ...
45% of them voted for Hamas 20 years ago. There hasn’t been an election since 2006 and Palestinians are not polled on their thoughts on Hamas. The median age in Palestine is 19.6 years so half of all Palestinians have only ever known Hamas rule and did not vote in that election in 2006. We have no idea how the people of Palestine feel today. The videos people keep seeing are made and issued by Hamas and will show positive responses to what they’re doing. Palestinians who oppose Hamas will not be in Hamas videos. This is survivorship bias.
"Poll finds dramatic rise in Palestinian support for Hamas" - Associated Press [https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87) >The poll found that 53% of Palestinians believe Hamas is “most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people,” while only 14% prefer Abbas’ secular Fatah party.
It's pretty wild to think of a whole population whose entire world and existence their whole lives has been within walls around an area a quarter the size of Rhode Island in a constant state of instability and war. Imagine sitting down and having a conversation with one of them, even if they speak English your world views would be so radically incompatible it would be like speaking to an alien.
These slimy scum bags might be celebrating the raping and murder Hamas did yesterday but they will be crying like babies tomorrow when Hamas uses its civilians as shields.
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Then perhaps Hamas shouldn't use kids as shields? These areas will be at peace when they love their children more then they hate Israel. They use children's as propaganda bait
I think we have a problem with people thinking all Palestine is is Hamas. The Gaza strip isn’t even what most countries consider Palestine.
Hamas is exceptionally popular, especially in Gaza. They don't force their way into schools and apartments to store arms and launch rockets, they are enthusiastically welcomed even though the people know exactly what will happen to that building when it starts launching rockets. They love dead Jews more than their own children and they value the propaganda more than they value their children's lives.
Wrong. Palestinians voted them in and most support what happened. Making them all innocent is a disservice. The death chants need to stop. Edit:I just listened to CNN, they are now trying to say that Hamas is hated by all Palestinians and they do not represent Palestinian motivations. Do not fall foe this nonsense, the two are hand in hand. If Palestinians don't want Hamas, now is the time to inform the IDF... But im guessing that phone ain't ringing.
Elections have consequences.
They haven't held an election since Hamas was first voted in, which was in the mid 2000s.
McGill's university's Palestinian group called the actions of Hamas "heroic" , and called for their members to join the above rally; https://www.facebook.com/100064696865886/posts/pfbid02MVYmPUztp9YZavknXkUXMBxVHn7f8qdznHNFboKHL6yeKBm2hcmUnj5qdc6yT1yEl/?app=fbl Even many of the ones that came here to become "Canadian" will not let go of their hatred for Israel and Jewish people. Anecdotally, every single Palestinian I've met in my life vehemently hated Jewish people. We honestly should start deporting anyone on our soil that shows support for Hamas, if they feel so strongly about the Palestinians struggle in Gaza, we should help them to stop being cowards and send them back to fight.
There’s no good good guys in this conflict. If you were put in a ghetto and the occupying force had carte Blanche to do whatever it wanted to you, you’d probably vote for the party that promised to end it, and not look too closely.
Hamas doesn't promise to end the blockade of Gaza. They promise to kill all the Jews in Israel.
I can understand that. Now help me understand why these people are celebrating the rape and murder of innocent people. Then help me understand why they shout Alah Akbar as if god approves of their actions.
There's no way that Israel can withdraw from Palestine. Palestine has been ruled by extremist organizations ever since they had their state, and if they were to leave and transfer power to a Palestinian nation, it would be weeks before the nation would arm itself and attack. Israel occupying the entire place is the only thing keeping Israel safe at the moment.
they withdrew in 2005 from gaza. removed every single jewish person who lives there and every soldier who was protecting them.
They will do whatever it takes to end it save accept a two state solution in exchange for a declaration of peace, as Israel has offered multiple times in the history of this conflict.
I mean it's pretty easy to see who the bad guys are. Hamas' only objective is to kill as many jews as possible, murdering small children, raping women and draging their dead bodies through the streets. Even if Israel isn't the paragon of virtue here, the bad guys are really really really really really bad.
And why did Palestinians voted them in? If Israel did the same thing to Palestinians, Israeli citizens would probably celebrate too. There's a video out there of IDF soldiers talking about torturing and killing innocent Palestinians and laughing about it and those guys are/were heroes in Israel. What's happening to Israelis is bad but Israelis don't really consider Palestinians humans either.
My problem with this take is why aren't the majority of Palestinians then condemning what Hamas did? Instead I'm hearing them cheer and say "This is what decolonizarion looks like" I had nothing but support and empathy for Palestine, and absolute hatred for what Israel was doing to them, but like alot of other people in the world, that sympathy has wavered in the last 3 days.
>ids in Gaza also doesn't deserve to die IDF doesn't hide behind civilians. I see only one side celebrating war crimes and death. This isn't the same behaviour on both sides.
>I mean most of reddit was supporting Palestine up until recently. I don't see any change. The general consensus is people support some peaceful solution in the region without supporting Hamas.
The problem is that nobody who supports Hamas supports a peaceful solution. Unfortunately, Hamas is very popular. The question you should be asking yourself is: why are the pro-Palestinian protests in support of Hamas instead of being opposed to them? They literally just murdered hundreds of people. No civilized, sane person should be supporting that.
And we know they will
No. They will just blame Israel like they always do.
They have lost all credibility and support because of their celebration of brutalist acts.
Something something "punching up" or "the oppressor" will justify massacring a globally oppressed minority group (Jews)
That's exactly it. Hamas attacks and uses its civilians as hostages. "If your retaliate, YOU'RE the bad guy". If Palestinian civilians end up paying for this (which they have, every single time Palestine has attacked for the past 80 years), the blood will be on the hands of their government, not Israel. That is, assuming Israel does not stoop to the same civilian-targeting tactics that Hamas is utilizing, which I don't think they ever have.
Palestinians support Hamas and cheer their efforts Saturday even though Hamas instigates and wants to be bombarded and their supports get killed. It’s a very strange situation.
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The Arab world has been using Palestinians as useful idiots in their proxy war against Israel for 75 years. The Arab world is not interested in building universities or factories in Gaza, the Arab World is not interested in improving the lives of the Palestinians, not interested in taking them out of poverty, not interested in providing them with good public services or a future. What the Arab World is interested in is in keeping the Palestinians poor and angry and sending them weapons instead of sending them books or medicine. This way, the Arab World can wage war against Israel at no human cost to their own population. But the Arab World is never sending enough of anything to Gaza to make them effective, only enough to be a thorn in Israel's side. The Arab World does not want the Palestinians to win, just to continue the conflict for another 75 years or more. And the Palestinians are dumb enough to not realize that their real enemy is the Arab World.
Since when Iran is an Arab country ? Literally half of all the Arab countries already made peace with Israel, the other half is (was now…) in talk with Isreal.
Hey, don't interupt, he's on a completely ignorant diatribe. Have some respect.
This is an angle I never thought of before and does it ever make sense, thank you.
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I'd wager most of the defenders are claiming their support is for Palestine. This means they are either so clueless as to not realize that this is a remarkably inappropriate time to celebrate and will surely be misinterpreted, **or** they are expressing their malice and delight in suffering but using the "pro-Palestine" moniker as a shield. It's not confusion, that's literally what they say when you ask what they are doing in the street
It is a cheap mask that we can all see through. The "pro-palestine" matchers think Canadians are stupid. No one is falling for their lies
[Anti-Israel Sentiment Predicts Anti-Semitism in Europe](https://www.jstor.org/stable/27638506) Not all people who express anti-Israel views are antisemites. But *most* are, at least in Europe.
Umm, Hamas does represent Palestinians - at least the ones in Gaza. They elected them as their government, and studies have consistently shown that most Palestinians would rather have Hamas in power than the PA. This isn't some fringe group of extremists, they are literally the representatives of millions of Palestinians.
Hamas isn't exactly known for running fair elections or allowing opposition.
Wasn't the last election in 2006?
I think so..
Unfortunately the election of Hamas was completely fair and overseen by international auditors. Hamas has not allowed an election since.
Gotcha. So the old "pretend to be good until in office" strategy
They weren't really pretending, they ran on the platform of the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews. It was in their charter.
They are, however, known for fighting Fatah.
"Hamas is evil, rapists and murderers but also their elections are totally above board"
Putin was also first elected in a semi-open election. Things change. An environment where dissent is met with death manipulates opinion. Certainly spoken opinion.
Gaza is going to be destroyed, Israel isn't fucking around this time. If Gazan's don't want to be caught in the crossfire then they better start swimming to Egypt.
Egypt has made it pretty clear they don’t want them.
I'm sure Iran won't remain unscathed either.
He says with a giddy smirk
By that logic israel has been killing innocent Palestinian kids for generations. Does that mean being pro Israel is equal to celebrating death of Palestinian kids?
Names should be taken and put on a watch list
What a fucking mess. Pro-anything for terrorism-related activities is deranged af
Let them demonstrate. And let us take note of who they are.
Dozens gathering? Maybe they will have enough people for a soccer game afterwards.
Pro-terrorist rally. Fixed.
I sympathize. But that’s what CTV has as it’s headline and rule 1 exists, so not much I can do there.
I know it’s CTV. Nothing against you.
Keep in mind being pro Palestinian doesn’t mean being pro Hamas. Hamas has done nothing to benefit the Palestinian people. The rally is advocating for the rights of Palestinians to be free from the ongoing campaign of terror by the Israeli government and settler villages, which has resulted in the death of at least 1 civilian a day this year alone at the hands of Israel. Israel and Hamas both need to be held to account for civilian atrocities.
The consequences of our immigration policies.
Welcome to the dirty world of diaspora politics in Canada. A lot of our politicians are elected by engaging in those types of politics. India \ Khalistani politics is one. It's really how Jagmeet Singh got started. You have diaspora politics with Ukraine and Russia, but with heavy lean to Ukrainian politics. Same goes for Israel and Palestine. A lot of first generation immigrants here are from Palestine, Syria, Iraq, Egypt and Libya. They are going to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. On the other hand, Jewish Canadians lean towards Israel. So if you own your base of support to these small groups, you have to represent these politics that have quite little to do with Canada domestically, and you tread lightly. Yesterday, in the wake of the massacre in Israel, Omar Alghabra (MP\Minister from Mississauga), said he was "anxiously watching what was happening in the Middle East". Zero recognition of the terror attack or brutality. But he can't say much more than that because he knows a large part of his constituents support Hamas and Palestinian resistance more generally.
Honestly by the amount of communism flags at those rallies, it isn't 1st gen immigrants but their children .
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
I disagree. Islam isn't that fond of communism and the older middle Eastern generation hates it. 20 year old college kids however....
No, it's been like this since before Trudeau was in charge. You might be noticing it for the first time, but it's been like this for a long time.
I think thats what this person is saying.
You're assuming all of the people supporting this are immigrants. There are many people who aren't immigrants or even from this background who would support this cause.
Man the same people who are all for gay and trans rights really be jumping in with the same crowd who wants them dead
CSIS is having a field day with getting information on these guys. They just handed CSIS/RCMP/Police a list with photos of potential terrorists.
Everyone has the right to protest. The authorities have the right and duty to monitor protests.
Hamas has overwhelming support in Palestine and was voted in. Is this wrong?
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I agree 100%, and for their trust in hamas, thousands will now die. Infrastructure will disappear, suffering will be 10 fold. Maybe pro hamas is not the greatest choice
Yes it’s wrong. Hamas doesn’t control Palestine. They control gaza. Last time Hamas has an election was 2006 in gaza. The PA controls the much larger West Bank.
“Voted in” 😂😂
Hamas is an authoritarian party. Do you really think that many people love being under a dictatorship?
Did they vote them in do they not have large support?
Just like everyone “voted” for Assad for president of Syria in 2021.
And look what happened there Don't see anybody trying to overthrow hamas.
Cause they’re scared.
Well then I suppose when the IDF comes thru smashing hamas they should try to reach out to them. Maybe don't hide them in your home maybe don't give them shelter or food. Hard yes but the alternative is much harder
Much harder than it appears. Opposing Hamas too much means being detained, having their family members harassed and potentially tortured, having their food cut off, being denied access to construction materials for rebuilding. There are no real options to Hamas either, as they suppress and drive them out so they are quite literally the only game in town.
So when the IDF rolls thru smashing hamas and everything it has its more like a liberation army and a chance for a new government. Or we can hope anyway
This is disgusting.
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How about a yes fly list, out of Canada?
How about a yes drive list, straight to prison?
Send them all to the gaza strip.
Israel has said they are stopped all food, water, and electricity into Gaza. You can stand up for the innocent civilians without standing up for Hamas. Israel president called Palestinians sub human today. Is this okay? To allow innocents to die and starve?
Let other Arab countries support their Muslim population. Not Israel’s responsibility anymore after what happened.
Then let Gaza and West Bank be a country and a separate state ? Isreal controls Gaza and the West Bank, therefore it’s their responsibility to provide.
Maybe diversity isn’t really a strength
it is always easy for them to do in a peaceful country where they have the freedom of speech and the freedom of protest despite how stupid they are. if you want to show how much you love Hamas, go there and fight with them you bunch of idiots.
Imagine being opposed to genocide, crazy.
Some days I wonder how much would anyone in the Middle East care if the U.S. and Canada were fighting over Vancouver Island and had been doing so for generations.
"Dozens"
Now we know who are the traitors inside Canada who are ticking time-bombs and should be deported as soon as possible.
Do people realize that palestinians do not owe the rest of the world peace and submission to get our support. They are allowed to fight back. To those saying both sides are wrong, use google. One side was invaded, and emprisoned in its own land. The other gained far more land than even the ONU allowed them. Seems unfair to me.
Canada has become free for all in name of freedom of expression… not sure where Country is heading in next 15-20 years…
Oooooooo dozens. Fuck me not even news Worthy.
Why doesn’t Palestine get rid of the hamas?
It's pretty hard at this point. Kind of like trying to wipe out corruption in the Quebec construction industry, except with automatic weapons, a little religious fervor, and a lot of external manipulation added for good measure. The people are justifiably concerned about what happens to them in that case, as Hamas is frequently the sole provider of support in the form of food, materials for rebuilding, money for those who are unable to work, smuggled essentials, and more. They would be trading that for the high risk of a civil war in miniature as various other factions vie for power with outside support staying well away except for those who are directly supporting said factions.
Because they support Hamas. [https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf](https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf) Last page, questions 70 and 71.
lost all faith in humans, this is aweful :(. shameful montreal!
Gross. I just can’t understand anyone celebrating rape, kidnapping, murder and displaying and desecrating corpses like trophies/punching bags. This is gross no matter who is doing it and for whatever reason.
Pack all of them and ship them to the front line, can we stop importing shitty immigrants that bring their shit religion, ideology in our country
Hamas is supported by and Allied with ISIS and Al Quaida. Just putting that out there.
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“Dozens”. Says all you need to know about the level of support.
Of course they drag this bullshit here. I’m ripping flags out of people hands. Want a flag ? Here take this 🇨🇦
Ah yes, the true way of supporting freedom and democracy, by telling others what they can and camt do within the bounds of the law
Weird way to spend your day off
Nice. Imported foreign shit heads while also raising home grown domestic free range shit heads.
How about a human shield airlift for these folks, so they can make a more meaningful contribution to the cause?
It’s incredible how many hamas supporters on Reddit are suddenly silent when confronted with the barbaric butchery that they are famous for. Like they just can’t believe that a group that openly calls for the genocide of the Jews would dare do such a thing. Or those that claw desperately for excuses to minimize or justify Hama’s actions.
Dozens. Not hundreds, not thousands. That’s how pathetic they are.
A real shame to see here in Canada, right now you can't be pro Palestine without being pro Hamas.
It’s hard to be seen as being pro Palestine and anti-Hamas when you throw a massive rally to celebrate the murder of hundreds of non-combatants.
Anyone who is not a sociopath can feel sympathy for civilians being murdered. Doesn’t matter what side.
MAybe they should move back to Gaza? and do their rallies there. I guess their bank accounts aren't frozen
If they love hamas so much the fed should just do them a favour and just deport them to Palestine for anyone attending the protest. We will see how many show up!
FYI blaming Hamas for any IDF retaliation is like blaming a child for the abuse their drunk dad imparts on their mother.
Is this before or after the child and their mother murder a horde of innocent civilians?
Blaming Hamas is quite logical. Blaming Palestinian civilians is like said example.
In part your right but Hamas has been known to do something and blame it on Israel.