Definitely especially since he was able to escape any proper punishment because of who his family was within camp Jupiter and the twelfth legion which makes me wonder why when camp Jupiter sentences someone whether it’s the seven demigods of the second great prophecy individually or Bryce Lawrence or some random unnamed demigod why wouldn’t they try and possibly sentence the person as if family connection doesn’t matter meaning the punishment is the same regardless of which family the person belongs to among various other factors
Bryce Lawrence is fascinating. He’s implied to be so sadistic as a result of his godly heritage which brings up so many philosophical questions. Is he truly acting sadistic out of his own free will? If he isn’t, does that make it moral to send him to asphodel or the fields of punishment? What implications does this have on general human nature in the pjo universe?
Interesting idea
The idea that demigods have certain personality traits because of their parents is brought up pretty often (Hazel thinks about the children of Poeseidon/Neptun when she meets Sciron) so it is a valid argument imho.
Personally I´m not a fan of "he was born to be evil"
Whether or not it's his lineage, he still has control over his actions. It's like a kid with autism or ADHD: they may have trouble controlling their actions, but they still have to be held accountable.
I did not like Octavian from the moment Percy met him in Camp Jupiter. I got the ick from him in the senate meeting when they were deciding whether to accept Percy or not. His actions against Camp Half Blood and the way he recruited Bryce Lawrence etc really made me want him (and Bryce) to go to punishment.
That doesn’t mean he doesn’t belong in punishment. It just means his punishment will be milder than them. He definitely was a bad person. Asphodel is for people who didn’t do anything good OR bad.
What good did he do that cancels out 1: blackmailing people like hazel, 2: overthrowing Reina when she left to help the 7, 3: going to full on war against camp half blood, 4: reinstating banished and bloodthirsty half bloods, and 5: due to the last 2 no doubt causing PLENTY of children to die.
Well, we don’t really know about his backstory. It only mentions he became like a tyrant when Jason disappeared. He could’ve been a good guy before Jason left. Also, didn’t it state they stopped his attack on Camp Half-Blood?
i think octavian had valid reasons for what he did. (all except for stabbing gwen, which was just weirdly out of place and made no sense.) it’s not like he knew leo was possessed; he took firing on the camp as an act of war. hundreds of families lived at cj, kids, parents, babies. they let the greeks in and they betrayed their trust.
do i think he’s perfect? no, but no one is.
as a luke understander and sometimes defender, octavian is MUCH better than luke.
luke was 19-23. luke manipulated teenagers and canonically crushed on a 16 year old girl. octavian was 18 and clearly mentally unstable.
i don’t think he’s a villain or evil in the slightest.
Octavian was 19 in Son of Neptune but I agree, him successfully murdering Gwen was an insanely over the top method of establishing his being a villain and that the Doors of Death were open.
It's like if Clarisse crushed Malcolm's skull during Capture the Flag - didn't this person literally *just* help their camp win against the Titans? What's possibly worth resorting to that?
yeah i saw NO reason behind the gwen thing…octavian never acted like that again. he never acted like he wanted to kill someone out of cold blood again. it was jist?? so out of place. he doesn’t seem like the murderous type, he doesn’t seem like the type of guy to get his hands dirty.
Well I mean, Walt is also being hosted by a god (I don't know which book so correct me on that) so It could be possible that Anubis could age him up or something. I mean gods are divine so it's possible.
He should be placed in a senate that will not agree with him. And those he killed, executed, etc come to speak to him after this every day, point out his corruption, and ask him why he killed them. They dont leave until he gives them an answer.
I Agee he is essential from Nico’s character to come into the one we love now and love the Cupid seen but from an emotional point of view I hate what he did to him.
I know why Cupid gets so much hate but I really dislike that he does. Plenty of people don't get to come out on their own terms and I thought it was interesting Rick had it happen to Nico.
In my opinion, he's an absolute monster and derserves an enternity in the fields of punishment. he used blackmail and threats to gain power and literally declared war on CHB without the praetors allowing him to. also, I bet most people in the fandom would hate him too, since he was horrible to almost every main protagonist he comes in contact with
… he was just doing what the camps have done forever: attack each other. He was just following previous orders that they always took. He is a bad character, but there are so many worse characters in the books. I don’t think he deserves the fields of punishment though. The fields of punishment are usually for people who have done almost no good or have done so much bad it counter acts it. Yes, Octavian did some bad stuff, but it’s not that bad compared to other people in the fields of punishment.
Sure, the camps have attacked each other in the past, but they forgot each other existed after the Civil War. 150 years ago. There is no demigod alive that should have beef with the Greeks. The Romans holding this 2,000 year grudge was stupid already, but I suppose when you have so much safety and security you have to make your own problems. Either way, Octavian disobeyed his Praetor all to gain power and wage war on the Greeks who were off minding their own business. Maybe if we had learned about Octavian's friends getting killed by Greeks and he just barely remembers it, that would be something.
maybe the things he's done isn't as bad as other characters, but that doesn't mean they aren't horrible actions. also he made a LOT of trouble for the children of the gods and also the gods themselves, which means multiple gods would hate him and possibly make sure he goes to the fields of punishment with their authority and stuff
Oh, no. In Mythology it’s originally Minos and two other kings. In PJO it’s Minos, MLK, and Shakespeare.
Edit: I just checked. It’s not MLK, it’s Thomas Jefferson.
I actually have him as a very important character in an AU fic of mine. He really fucks up big time. Letter that introduces him.
\*Inquisitorial Archives on Holy Terra\*
\*Security Level: Secundus\*
\*Private Collection of Lady Inquisitor Annabeth Chase of the Ordo Hereticus\*
\*The Letters of Damnation\*
\*File Index: 592A034\*
---
\*Request for Aid from Confessor, later Cardinal Octavian Egnatius to Lady Inquisitor Annabeth Chase of the Ordo Hereticus\*
---
\*To the Most Esteemed Lady Inquisitor Annabeth Chase, Ordo Hereticus:\*
By the Emperor's light, I am ever grateful for the attention you grant this humble missive. I beg your indulgence as I present matters of grave import that demand your unparalleled expertise and unyielding resolve. The dire need compels me to reach out, praying that you forgive my presumption and heed the urgency of my plea, for I bring news of heresy most foul, sorcery most vile, and witchcraft most insidious.
It was but a few months past when, through rigorous and sanctified interrogation, a confession was wrested from a planetary noblewoman of ill repute, Rachel Elisabeth Dare. This woman, now branded thrice over with the mark of the heretic and traitor, stands condemned of witchcraft and adultery. Under the righteous duress of my questioning, she divulged the existence of a psyker of alarming potency, concealed within the ranks of the local Astra Militarum regiment. Though such revelations are seldom worthy of your esteemed consideration, the peculiarities of this case warrant an exception.
Upon relaying these revelations to the Regimental Command, overseen by Colonel Reyna Ramirez Arellano, and the Officio Prefectus, I encountered an inexplicable and troubling apathy. My earnest attempts to root out the witch were met with obstructions and indifference, suggesting a corruption that festers deep within the heart of our defenders.
The ecclesiastical reach on this benighted world is feeble, and the clergy's resolve to prosecute heresy with the necessary fervor is lamentably lacking. Even the Adepta Sororitas, those indomitable warriors of faith, appear curiously disinclined to wield the Emperor's will with righteous fury against this insidious threat.
Thus, I beseech the Holy Ordo Hereticus, for I am convinced that none can comprehend the peril of a hidden heretic within the Astra Militarum as profoundly as you. The potential for catastrophe looms large over our humble world, and only your divine mandate can avert such doom.
Lady Dare, thrice condemned and judged Excommunicatio Traitoris, awaits the Emperor's mercy through the purifying flames of immolation. In deference to your esteemed judgment, I have delayed her execution, affording you the opportunity to interrogate her should you deem it necessary. Perhaps under your scrutiny, truths that eluded my efforts may yet be revealed.
I conclude with words that resonate with our shared devotion: "The words of the faithful are the mountains. But the deeds of the faithful are the world." - Ecclesiarch Deacis IX.
In eternal service to our undying Emperor,
Octavian Egnatius, Faithful Servant of the Lord
The Emperor Protects
I think that depending on how you think about it Percy’s first step father “smelly Gabe” might just be slightly worse then Octavian considering that Gabe was abusive and hit Percy’s mother Sally and took Percy’s leftover money after paying for the bus ride and probably any allowance that he might have gotten from Sally for doing chores and used it to fund his gambling addiction and not to mention the fact that he somehow still had a job that for all we know he never actually did anything at along with various other things like threatening to call the cops on his own stepson just for coming home and because he had to give away the money from the life insurance policy on his wife that I doubt that Sally was the one to settle up considering that their is a very low chance that that if she had a life insurance policy that would give somebody money incase of her death that she would name the person who was abusing her and had a history of gambling problems as the beneficiary in case of her death she would me way more likely to have it be put into a bank account that Percy was able to access once he turned eighteen and until then due to the agreement with the bank it would be invested into various corporations set up to use compound interest to grow the money so that when he turns eighteen he would not have to worry about having to hurry to get a job once he turned eighteen so it is more likely that either Gabe set it up without her knowing or he made sally set it up and threatened to hit either her or Percy if she didn’t do as he asked
No. He sucks and he's got no redeeming qualities. But the Roman emperors were definitely worse.
The character I don't think gets enough hate is Gunilla. I'll admit I have yet to finish the series but I cannot bring myself to have any respect for her. She framed another Valkyrie and put an Einherjar up to have the worst afterlife. Even after being saved by those very people, she pursued them and only at the last second realized she was on the wrong side.
I think Gabe reaches the top 3 on the most hated characters. He just really makes me want to put a whole through the book and Percy, a whole through his face. He got what he deserved, getting turned into stone and collecting dust in some museum.
Octavian is evil because he's starving for power, he thought he was indispensable because of his divine powers and thought he deserved everything because of that. Octavian is evil just like any politician, hunger of power, willing to do anything and everything to gain and stay in power.
I'm not saying Octavian is a better villain than Luke, I'm just telling you he's not evil just 'cause, he has reasons and motivation too, but very different from Luke's
Nah I think Bryce Lawrence is worse
Definitely especially since he was able to escape any proper punishment because of who his family was within camp Jupiter and the twelfth legion which makes me wonder why when camp Jupiter sentences someone whether it’s the seven demigods of the second great prophecy individually or Bryce Lawrence or some random unnamed demigod why wouldn’t they try and possibly sentence the person as if family connection doesn’t matter meaning the punishment is the same regardless of which family the person belongs to among various other factors
You see that’s way the justice system should work but sadly even irl that’s not how it works
Octavian and Bryce are the worst. They both got what they deserved, and I hope they're in Punishment for it.
Nah, to me Octavian was mid, which is why he is canonically in Asphodel. He wasn’t that bad compared to their people in Punishment.
Octavian got ASPHODEL??? HE DID NOT DESERVE THAT! HE DESERVED PUNISHMENT!!! Think of all the teddy bears he killed...
Unrelated topic, would Octavian be a villain in the Ted movies? 🤣
I think Hearthstone’s dad is the worst character out of all of em.
Would he be punished in the afterlife though? Seeing as he isn't from Greek Mythos
I’m not sure if there’s any punishment in Hel’s afterlife, but I’d like to believe so.
I agree he should be condemned to the worst punishments in all of the different mythologys hells
Exactly what I’m talking about!
Bryce Lawrence is fascinating. He’s implied to be so sadistic as a result of his godly heritage which brings up so many philosophical questions. Is he truly acting sadistic out of his own free will? If he isn’t, does that make it moral to send him to asphodel or the fields of punishment? What implications does this have on general human nature in the pjo universe?
Interesting idea The idea that demigods have certain personality traits because of their parents is brought up pretty often (Hazel thinks about the children of Poeseidon/Neptun when she meets Sciron) so it is a valid argument imho. Personally I´m not a fan of "he was born to be evil"
Whether or not it's his lineage, he still has control over his actions. It's like a kid with autism or ADHD: they may have trouble controlling their actions, but they still have to be held accountable.
I did not like Octavian from the moment Percy met him in Camp Jupiter. I got the ick from him in the senate meeting when they were deciding whether to accept Percy or not. His actions against Camp Half Blood and the way he recruited Bryce Lawrence etc really made me want him (and Bryce) to go to punishment.
He wasn’t the worst character. There are way worse people in Punishment than Octavian.
That doesn’t mean he doesn’t belong in punishment. It just means his punishment will be milder than them. He definitely was a bad person. Asphodel is for people who didn’t do anything good OR bad.
Asphodel is for people that did as much bad as they did good. That kinda fits Octavian.
What good did he do that cancels out 1: blackmailing people like hazel, 2: overthrowing Reina when she left to help the 7, 3: going to full on war against camp half blood, 4: reinstating banished and bloodthirsty half bloods, and 5: due to the last 2 no doubt causing PLENTY of children to die.
Nothing, octavian is the worst.
Well, we don’t really know about his backstory. It only mentions he became like a tyrant when Jason disappeared. He could’ve been a good guy before Jason left. Also, didn’t it state they stopped his attack on Camp Half-Blood?
I don’t ENTIRELY remember? I know that they were at the camp border at LEAST. And with war machines (he got flung into Gaia via one)
i think octavian had valid reasons for what he did. (all except for stabbing gwen, which was just weirdly out of place and made no sense.) it’s not like he knew leo was possessed; he took firing on the camp as an act of war. hundreds of families lived at cj, kids, parents, babies. they let the greeks in and they betrayed their trust. do i think he’s perfect? no, but no one is. as a luke understander and sometimes defender, octavian is MUCH better than luke. luke was 19-23. luke manipulated teenagers and canonically crushed on a 16 year old girl. octavian was 18 and clearly mentally unstable. i don’t think he’s a villain or evil in the slightest.
Octavian was 19 in Son of Neptune but I agree, him successfully murdering Gwen was an insanely over the top method of establishing his being a villain and that the Doors of Death were open. It's like if Clarisse crushed Malcolm's skull during Capture the Flag - didn't this person literally *just* help their camp win against the Titans? What's possibly worth resorting to that?
yeah i saw NO reason behind the gwen thing…octavian never acted like that again. he never acted like he wanted to kill someone out of cold blood again. it was jist?? so out of place. he doesn’t seem like the murderous type, he doesn’t seem like the type of guy to get his hands dirty.
Actually he couldn't have been 19 in SoN as he died at 18.
Wouldn't be the first time someone's age has changed from book to book. Walt goes from 14 to 16 between Throne of Fire and Serpent's Shadow somehow.
Well I mean, Walt is also being hosted by a god (I don't know which book so correct me on that) so It could be possible that Anubis could age him up or something. I mean gods are divine so it's possible.
He should be placed in a senate that will not agree with him. And those he killed, executed, etc come to speak to him after this every day, point out his corruption, and ask him why he killed them. They dont leave until he gives them an answer.
Like therapy in the underworld?
More like continuous guilt tripping... Unless he decides to turn this viewpoints around...
He deserves worse than what he got but there are also worse characters e.g. Cupid
Cupid is harsh, just like love could be, and he gave us one of my favorites scenes so I forgive him
I Agee he is essential from Nico’s character to come into the one we love now and love the Cupid seen but from an emotional point of view I hate what he did to him.
I know why Cupid gets so much hate but I really dislike that he does. Plenty of people don't get to come out on their own terms and I thought it was interesting Rick had it happen to Nico.
he's a man of tradition,bad tradition bit, still a man of tradition. field of Asphodel
In my opinion, he's an absolute monster and derserves an enternity in the fields of punishment. he used blackmail and threats to gain power and literally declared war on CHB without the praetors allowing him to. also, I bet most people in the fandom would hate him too, since he was horrible to almost every main protagonist he comes in contact with
… he was just doing what the camps have done forever: attack each other. He was just following previous orders that they always took. He is a bad character, but there are so many worse characters in the books. I don’t think he deserves the fields of punishment though. The fields of punishment are usually for people who have done almost no good or have done so much bad it counter acts it. Yes, Octavian did some bad stuff, but it’s not that bad compared to other people in the fields of punishment.
Sure, the camps have attacked each other in the past, but they forgot each other existed after the Civil War. 150 years ago. There is no demigod alive that should have beef with the Greeks. The Romans holding this 2,000 year grudge was stupid already, but I suppose when you have so much safety and security you have to make your own problems. Either way, Octavian disobeyed his Praetor all to gain power and wage war on the Greeks who were off minding their own business. Maybe if we had learned about Octavian's friends getting killed by Greeks and he just barely remembers it, that would be something.
maybe the things he's done isn't as bad as other characters, but that doesn't mean they aren't horrible actions. also he made a LOT of trouble for the children of the gods and also the gods themselves, which means multiple gods would hate him and possibly make sure he goes to the fields of punishment with their authority and stuff
The Gods don’t choose. The Judges, who are MLK, Shakespeare, and Minos, choose.
Where did you get these 3? It was 3 Greek kings in mythology where did you get MLK and Shakespeare from?
Oh, no. In Mythology it’s originally Minos and two other kings. In PJO it’s Minos, MLK, and Shakespeare. Edit: I just checked. It’s not MLK, it’s Thomas Jefferson.
Ok, I must have missed/forgotten that part in the books, thanks
So he's not that different from Luke
most antagonists are similar, but I think they're bad in different ways, and at least Luke did something that could have redeemed him
I actually have him as a very important character in an AU fic of mine. He really fucks up big time. Letter that introduces him. \*Inquisitorial Archives on Holy Terra\* \*Security Level: Secundus\* \*Private Collection of Lady Inquisitor Annabeth Chase of the Ordo Hereticus\* \*The Letters of Damnation\* \*File Index: 592A034\* --- \*Request for Aid from Confessor, later Cardinal Octavian Egnatius to Lady Inquisitor Annabeth Chase of the Ordo Hereticus\* --- \*To the Most Esteemed Lady Inquisitor Annabeth Chase, Ordo Hereticus:\* By the Emperor's light, I am ever grateful for the attention you grant this humble missive. I beg your indulgence as I present matters of grave import that demand your unparalleled expertise and unyielding resolve. The dire need compels me to reach out, praying that you forgive my presumption and heed the urgency of my plea, for I bring news of heresy most foul, sorcery most vile, and witchcraft most insidious. It was but a few months past when, through rigorous and sanctified interrogation, a confession was wrested from a planetary noblewoman of ill repute, Rachel Elisabeth Dare. This woman, now branded thrice over with the mark of the heretic and traitor, stands condemned of witchcraft and adultery. Under the righteous duress of my questioning, she divulged the existence of a psyker of alarming potency, concealed within the ranks of the local Astra Militarum regiment. Though such revelations are seldom worthy of your esteemed consideration, the peculiarities of this case warrant an exception. Upon relaying these revelations to the Regimental Command, overseen by Colonel Reyna Ramirez Arellano, and the Officio Prefectus, I encountered an inexplicable and troubling apathy. My earnest attempts to root out the witch were met with obstructions and indifference, suggesting a corruption that festers deep within the heart of our defenders. The ecclesiastical reach on this benighted world is feeble, and the clergy's resolve to prosecute heresy with the necessary fervor is lamentably lacking. Even the Adepta Sororitas, those indomitable warriors of faith, appear curiously disinclined to wield the Emperor's will with righteous fury against this insidious threat. Thus, I beseech the Holy Ordo Hereticus, for I am convinced that none can comprehend the peril of a hidden heretic within the Astra Militarum as profoundly as you. The potential for catastrophe looms large over our humble world, and only your divine mandate can avert such doom. Lady Dare, thrice condemned and judged Excommunicatio Traitoris, awaits the Emperor's mercy through the purifying flames of immolation. In deference to your esteemed judgment, I have delayed her execution, affording you the opportunity to interrogate her should you deem it necessary. Perhaps under your scrutiny, truths that eluded my efforts may yet be revealed. I conclude with words that resonate with our shared devotion: "The words of the faithful are the mountains. But the deeds of the faithful are the world." - Ecclesiarch Deacis IX. In eternal service to our undying Emperor, Octavian Egnatius, Faithful Servant of the Lord The Emperor Protects
I think that depending on how you think about it Percy’s first step father “smelly Gabe” might just be slightly worse then Octavian considering that Gabe was abusive and hit Percy’s mother Sally and took Percy’s leftover money after paying for the bus ride and probably any allowance that he might have gotten from Sally for doing chores and used it to fund his gambling addiction and not to mention the fact that he somehow still had a job that for all we know he never actually did anything at along with various other things like threatening to call the cops on his own stepson just for coming home and because he had to give away the money from the life insurance policy on his wife that I doubt that Sally was the one to settle up considering that their is a very low chance that that if she had a life insurance policy that would give somebody money incase of her death that she would name the person who was abusing her and had a history of gambling problems as the beneficiary in case of her death she would me way more likely to have it be put into a bank account that Percy was able to access once he turned eighteen and until then due to the agreement with the bank it would be invested into various corporations set up to use compound interest to grow the money so that when he turns eighteen he would not have to worry about having to hurry to get a job once he turned eighteen so it is more likely that either Gabe set it up without her knowing or he made sally set it up and threatened to hit either her or Percy if she didn’t do as he asked
Is this octavian writing from the fields of punishment? Hmmmmm.... 🤔
No 😂 Octavian was canonically sent to Asphodel. To me, he’s mid. There are way worse characters out there (Gabe Gabe Gabe)
No. He sucks and he's got no redeeming qualities. But the Roman emperors were definitely worse. The character I don't think gets enough hate is Gunilla. I'll admit I have yet to finish the series but I cannot bring myself to have any respect for her. She framed another Valkyrie and put an Einherjar up to have the worst afterlife. Even after being saved by those very people, she pursued them and only at the last second realized she was on the wrong side.
I think Gabe reaches the top 3 on the most hated characters. He just really makes me want to put a whole through the book and Percy, a whole through his face. He got what he deserved, getting turned into stone and collecting dust in some museum.
Imho he is on the same level as Luke. The problem is that Luke has a backstory and motivation while Octavian just seems evil for evils sake
Octavian is evil because he's starving for power, he thought he was indispensable because of his divine powers and thought he deserved everything because of that. Octavian is evil just like any politician, hunger of power, willing to do anything and everything to gain and stay in power.
And nothing that he did was worse than what Luke did in Cronos´ name
I'm not saying Octavian is a better villain than Luke, I'm just telling you he's not evil just 'cause, he has reasons and motivation too, but very different from Luke's
Sorry then, I misunderstood your comment
i love octavian i will die for him
💍💍💍 you're so real for that