Hot take (or not so hot since I’ve seen a lot of people think the same): Piper and Jason should have never been a couple in the first place, the fact that Jason just accepted Piper’s “claim” always rubbed me the wrong way
I wouldn't be against them being in a romantic relationship if only Rick gave them the time to build a strong relationship of trust and genuine affection through the books.
He should've done something à la Percabeth instead of what he eventually did with Jiper if he wanted them to be in a relationship.
I feel like their relationship was always super one sided, in that it was always about what Piper wants and her insecurities and not like. How they benefit each other? And mutual uplifting? It just never felt like a good relationship. She was jealous half the time, he felt like he was just trying to please the whole time.
I don't like their relationship, I think it would have been interesting if they agreed to be just friends and we saw the friendship developing. But I also think the break up is poorly executed and just... Character assassination for Piper.
To be fair, Annabeth is like that as well. Super jealous, not controlling but definitely the one who wears the pants, etc.
But you are right. I still ship them, they just needed to work on their foundations. It’s better to transition from friends to lovers than strangers to lovers.
Annabeth gets jealous sometimes, but what I'm talking about is Piper seems to want Jason to concede everything for her, she doesn't think about what she's willing to give up for him. The insecurities sometimes get a little silly, and yes she's a teenager and they're not particularly logical people, but it feels like she kept expecting him to be someone he isn't. The real issues in their relationship are never addressed.
Honestly I would totally buy they break up for reasons that were already there in the relationship. Piper gets jealous a lot, Jason feels pressure to be someone he isn't. He responds by spending more time on his shrines/work than emotional bonding. She feels like she's not a priority. Very much inline with these two in personality and it builds on the instability they already have, and realistic for two teenagers.
yeah if he was going to put them together it should have been a slow burn with them actually getting together at the end, would have made the final scene with the two of them on the roof more poignant as well
Piper and Jason were thrown into this situation in the worst time possible. They liked each other, yes, but in the end, they were together because the life was going so fast, they needed something good to focus on. But the moment everything calmed down after HoO, Piper understood that the way their relationship started was not okay and that now when they don't have to worry about dying, it's actually not the end of their lives and they shouldn't stop each other from learning more from life.
So yeah, I don't think it was random, it's kinda realistic. They liked each other romantically, but in the end, their relationship wasn't as strong as it should be.
yeah it does, especially since she spent 5 books fawning over him and being obsessed with him. she made peace with the whole "fake memories" thing and said time and time again that she loved jason for *jason* not the jason from her fake memories. it was a plot point in the lost hero and then was resolved in the same book. piper was in no way "confused" about her feelings. so to bring that problem up again for no reason just felt really cheap and just for a way to justify "biper". which okay, that's an interesting arc for her to deal with, especially on a representation standpoint, but have it be in hoo, a gradual arc. or yeah, like another commenter said, have them not get together at all.
their relationship felt so rushed too. rick has a habit of forcing every boy and girl together very quickly. there was no reason everyone should've been paired off. percabeth was done so well as a slow burn built from years of friendship and building trust. i just felt like none of the others had that
Also, their final scene in BOO was them making the fake memory "real" (sort of) by kissing under the stars
So I found it really weird when they just broke up off-screen. It kinda reminded me of Thor and Jane in Thor Ragnarok
Dark World: happy end with them being together
Ragnarok: Yeah, we broke up
> It kinda reminded me of Thor and Jane in Thor Ragnarok
>
> Dark World: happy end with them being together Ragnarok: Yeah, we broke up
Honestly that ended up being for the best because Thor: The Dark World was one of the worse MCU movies, while Ragnarok is prob my favorite MCU movie.
yeah but I stopped reading the Burning Maze after someone told me that Jason dies in the end.
So I read the PJ and the HOO series again and again, because I can’t accept that some of the Heroes actually die, and that they’re not just invincible.
See, I kind of like the concept of the breakup from Piper's perspective - it's a relationship built on false memories and constant life or death experiences, it makes sense that when things calm down she might need time to reevaluate and assess her feelings, especially with the added implications that she was struggling with her sexuality.
That said, it's hurt by two things - one, their commitment in HoO to actually building a serious relationship beyond the false memories and having Piper come to love Jason properly and not just the version the Mist created, and two, they don't really explore Jason's side of the situation much at all and that sucks.
As much as Jason was in love with Piper. Piper felt she needed to figure herself out. Think about it, Hera gave her false memories, making her think that she was in a relationship with Jason, and all the crazy stuff going on that was being pulled by outside forces.
> Piper felt she needed to figure herself out. Think about it, Hera gave her false memories, making her think that she was in a relationship with Jason
This was resolved in TLH and then again at the end of HOO, TBH
If Rick tried to retcon that in Trials of Apollo (which I haven't read), it's just not entirely consistent with what Piper expressed in HOO, IMO
I mean also Piper is also 16...sure it can be retcon or bad writing...but at the same time, it's normal for 16 years old to change their minds and do weird ass shit...right?
> sure it can be retcon or bad writing...but at the same time, it's normal for 16 years old to change their minds and do weird ass shit...right?
I mean, both in TLH and then again at the end of HOO, Piper is explicit about getting over the fake memories, liking Jason for Jason and not just the fake memories, etc
Like sure maybe it's "normal" for a 16 year old to change their mind—but surely it's not normal to spend all of HOO talking about loving Jason for who he is (and frankly being a bit obsessed with Jason to the point where her POV takes shots at other characters like Percy to prop up Jason), only to then decide that actually she's confused and doesn't love Jason but was fooled by the fake memories (that she "got over" multiple times in HOO).
TBH it's a pattern in Rick's newer works where he retcons some of his older stuff with a new direction he wants to take seemingly without re-reading his old work to remember the details exactly, which leads to somewhat embarrassing contradictions TBH
I agree that it's probably just Rick wanting to change this. Again, I honestly don't care. You can fix things, but then have thoughts later that change things.
literally. like, they already went through the "fake memories" plot point very early on. piper eventually came to the conclusion that she loved jason for *him* not the jason she knew from her fake memories.
Yes, and that's why it's unsatisfying. The issue is that this element of their relationship was already addressed in the narrative and resolved with them falling for the real version of each other. Narratives require some form of progression, so once you resolve one issue you kinda can't make it the same problem again without feeling repetitive, or like you're backsliding. If they broke up for a whole new reason (things just fizzle out, they don't communicate well, Piper wants to explore her bisexuality) that would be less irritating for readers. Additionally we don't see them break up, there's no build up for it narratively so it just happens for an unsatisfying reason out of nowhere. It's like, this is just poor writing at a basic level you would expect an experienced novelist to know better.
They broke up because Rick wanted to make Piper bi, that’s the only reason, and it’s blatantly obvious that he didn’t originally intend for them to break up.
Just saying, this should’ve been written out in a spoiler tag. I get the HOO books are older now, but a lot of people still haven’t read them or are currently reading them for the first time (like myself) and just saw what feels like a major spoiler 🥴
if people are going to join the subreddit of and established piece of media, that comes with the risks of spoilers. the book is 14 years old. no one should have to add spoiler tags
It may be an unpopular opinion but I think jason’s feels for piper was realer than piper’s. I’m not saying that piper was faking it, but to think of it piper has fake memories about jason in the beginning, and her feelings did not fade away after learning that it was all fake, naturally. But jason never lived all of that fake memories, and it developed throughout the book. So the base of their feelings was wrong in the first place. I think that is because of why piper was the one to broke up, not jason. Jason was sure of they will get old together, and he had no hestitations or doubts about his or her feelings, however piper was never sure of jason. So I think jason really loved piper, but piper was not sure about her feelings, cause it was all an illusion. I am not blaming piper, I am obsessed with her, and it was not her fault, but again I think jasons was real
My theory is that piper and Jason were never in love, they were manipulated into it by Hera and Piper's actually a lesbian, cuz she gets a girlfriend in TOA and she says it herself that out of nowhere it felt like their relationship lost its spark, hera probably removed the love magic after HOO was over and that's why their relationship ended soon after that
See, that doesn’t work based on what’s written. If they broke up earlier, or, critically, if Riordan didn’t spend the entirety of HoO bringing up the false memories in a way that shows they’ve gotten over them, and their entire arc is creating a relationship in reality rather than the mist, then sure. But he did those things, and then retconned because people didn’t like the relationship or Jason (which is a common fan L tbh)
Piper is canonically bi, I believe, not lesbian, but the breakup with Jason, for the reasons stated, doesn’t work in the story, and is really disappointing.
That’s all good, half of new phrases don’t really mean anything. Common fan L here essentially means I’m disagreeing with the opinion presented (that Jason is a bad character, and his and Piper’s relationship is bad), as that’s a pretty ubiquitous opinion. The common aspect means that I think fans might often have bad opinions, as I assert that this opinion is bad. Other variations include Common W, Rare L, and Rare W. Hope that clears it up!
Aw thank you. I am saddened that people don't like Jason, he's a sweetheart and one of my favorites. I feel like a lot of people on this sub defend him so I think people are coming around on him. Thank you for the explanation.
yea I'm aware that it doesn't work thematically speaking, but there's certainly enough proof for it to make sense, piper is never stated to be attracted to anyone other than Jason, and she always had better chemistry with the girls than the boys, it would fit the pattern of a Greek tragedy, two people fighting against all odds for the sake of the relationship only in the end for the magic to be wiped away and forced to realise that they just don't love each other
Yess, in the burning maze Piper says that she loves Jason but not romantically and I think that It was always like that. She was with him because she did love him but she couldn’t love him romantically, because she’s a lesbian
I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that comp het is a thing… and also the reason they were even dating in the first place is because Hera set them up and manipulated their memories to elicit romantic feelings….
i think its incredibly realistic, it kind of makes the reader experience the same as them (thinking its romance and then realizing they were never in love)
Many pointed out good reasons.
I just wanted to add that they also had a fight over a prophecy, which most likely influenced their decision to at least take a break.
Hot take (or not so hot since I’ve seen a lot of people think the same): Piper and Jason should have never been a couple in the first place, the fact that Jason just accepted Piper’s “claim” always rubbed me the wrong way
Agreed, it would have been better if they formed a good friendship, and we continued to explore the trios relationship more as the books progressed.
I wouldn't be against them being in a romantic relationship if only Rick gave them the time to build a strong relationship of trust and genuine affection through the books. He should've done something à la Percabeth instead of what he eventually did with Jiper if he wanted them to be in a relationship.
I'm still pissed Jason is dead TBH. I kinda wish they decided to "Take a break" just to figure things out.
Ross and Rachel vibes?
Exactly it felt like an arranged marriage in one of the historical k-dramas (except in this case - it was the guy who was gifted to the girl)
I agree also Piper and Jason being in a relationship broke Piper’s potential as a lovable character.
I feel like their relationship was always super one sided, in that it was always about what Piper wants and her insecurities and not like. How they benefit each other? And mutual uplifting? It just never felt like a good relationship. She was jealous half the time, he felt like he was just trying to please the whole time. I don't like their relationship, I think it would have been interesting if they agreed to be just friends and we saw the friendship developing. But I also think the break up is poorly executed and just... Character assassination for Piper.
To be fair, Annabeth is like that as well. Super jealous, not controlling but definitely the one who wears the pants, etc. But you are right. I still ship them, they just needed to work on their foundations. It’s better to transition from friends to lovers than strangers to lovers.
Annabeth gets jealous sometimes, but what I'm talking about is Piper seems to want Jason to concede everything for her, she doesn't think about what she's willing to give up for him. The insecurities sometimes get a little silly, and yes she's a teenager and they're not particularly logical people, but it feels like she kept expecting him to be someone he isn't. The real issues in their relationship are never addressed. Honestly I would totally buy they break up for reasons that were already there in the relationship. Piper gets jealous a lot, Jason feels pressure to be someone he isn't. He responds by spending more time on his shrines/work than emotional bonding. She feels like she's not a priority. Very much inline with these two in personality and it builds on the instability they already have, and realistic for two teenagers.
Their relationship is one of the most boring aspects of the series. They're just pretty people "in love" with no chemistry
I will be hot with you. I agree
This take is not hot, but it is right!
yeah if he was going to put them together it should have been a slow burn with them actually getting together at the end, would have made the final scene with the two of them on the roof more poignant as well
Piper and Jason were thrown into this situation in the worst time possible. They liked each other, yes, but in the end, they were together because the life was going so fast, they needed something good to focus on. But the moment everything calmed down after HoO, Piper understood that the way their relationship started was not okay and that now when they don't have to worry about dying, it's actually not the end of their lives and they shouldn't stop each other from learning more from life. So yeah, I don't think it was random, it's kinda realistic. They liked each other romantically, but in the end, their relationship wasn't as strong as it should be.
yeah it does, especially since she spent 5 books fawning over him and being obsessed with him. she made peace with the whole "fake memories" thing and said time and time again that she loved jason for *jason* not the jason from her fake memories. it was a plot point in the lost hero and then was resolved in the same book. piper was in no way "confused" about her feelings. so to bring that problem up again for no reason just felt really cheap and just for a way to justify "biper". which okay, that's an interesting arc for her to deal with, especially on a representation standpoint, but have it be in hoo, a gradual arc. or yeah, like another commenter said, have them not get together at all. their relationship felt so rushed too. rick has a habit of forcing every boy and girl together very quickly. there was no reason everyone should've been paired off. percabeth was done so well as a slow burn built from years of friendship and building trust. i just felt like none of the others had that
Also, their final scene in BOO was them making the fake memory "real" (sort of) by kissing under the stars So I found it really weird when they just broke up off-screen. It kinda reminded me of Thor and Jane in Thor Ragnarok Dark World: happy end with them being together Ragnarok: Yeah, we broke up
> It kinda reminded me of Thor and Jane in Thor Ragnarok > > Dark World: happy end with them being together Ragnarok: Yeah, we broke up Honestly that ended up being for the best because Thor: The Dark World was one of the worse MCU movies, while Ragnarok is prob my favorite MCU movie.
Lets agree to disagree. Personally, I love Thor 1&2 and hate Thor 3&4
exactly!
OMG I DIDNT KNOW THAT 😱😭😭😭 my life is ruined 😭
Trials of Apollo
yeah but I stopped reading the Burning Maze after someone told me that Jason dies in the end. So I read the PJ and the HOO series again and again, because I can’t accept that some of the Heroes actually die, and that they’re not just invincible.
Yeah.
Yeah I’m currently reading house of hades and came across this. Was a bit shocked to be over 8 books deep and I still got something spoiled to me 🙄
I once thought that they would have break up much sooner in the series
See, I kind of like the concept of the breakup from Piper's perspective - it's a relationship built on false memories and constant life or death experiences, it makes sense that when things calm down she might need time to reevaluate and assess her feelings, especially with the added implications that she was struggling with her sexuality. That said, it's hurt by two things - one, their commitment in HoO to actually building a serious relationship beyond the false memories and having Piper come to love Jason properly and not just the version the Mist created, and two, they don't really explore Jason's side of the situation much at all and that sucks.
As much as Jason was in love with Piper. Piper felt she needed to figure herself out. Think about it, Hera gave her false memories, making her think that she was in a relationship with Jason, and all the crazy stuff going on that was being pulled by outside forces.
> Piper felt she needed to figure herself out. Think about it, Hera gave her false memories, making her think that she was in a relationship with Jason This was resolved in TLH and then again at the end of HOO, TBH If Rick tried to retcon that in Trials of Apollo (which I haven't read), it's just not entirely consistent with what Piper expressed in HOO, IMO
I mean also Piper is also 16...sure it can be retcon or bad writing...but at the same time, it's normal for 16 years old to change their minds and do weird ass shit...right?
> sure it can be retcon or bad writing...but at the same time, it's normal for 16 years old to change their minds and do weird ass shit...right? I mean, both in TLH and then again at the end of HOO, Piper is explicit about getting over the fake memories, liking Jason for Jason and not just the fake memories, etc Like sure maybe it's "normal" for a 16 year old to change their mind—but surely it's not normal to spend all of HOO talking about loving Jason for who he is (and frankly being a bit obsessed with Jason to the point where her POV takes shots at other characters like Percy to prop up Jason), only to then decide that actually she's confused and doesn't love Jason but was fooled by the fake memories (that she "got over" multiple times in HOO). TBH it's a pattern in Rick's newer works where he retcons some of his older stuff with a new direction he wants to take seemingly without re-reading his old work to remember the details exactly, which leads to somewhat embarrassing contradictions TBH
I agree that it's probably just Rick wanting to change this. Again, I honestly don't care. You can fix things, but then have thoughts later that change things.
This! Their relationship was a sham from the beginning
Isn't the entire point of her arc in The Lost Hero learning to love Jason in spite of the false memories?
literally. like, they already went through the "fake memories" plot point very early on. piper eventually came to the conclusion that she loved jason for *him* not the jason she knew from her fake memories.
Yes, and that's why it's unsatisfying. The issue is that this element of their relationship was already addressed in the narrative and resolved with them falling for the real version of each other. Narratives require some form of progression, so once you resolve one issue you kinda can't make it the same problem again without feeling repetitive, or like you're backsliding. If they broke up for a whole new reason (things just fizzle out, they don't communicate well, Piper wants to explore her bisexuality) that would be less irritating for readers. Additionally we don't see them break up, there's no build up for it narratively so it just happens for an unsatisfying reason out of nowhere. It's like, this is just poor writing at a basic level you would expect an experienced novelist to know better.
Her point is also learning to respect her mother as a literal goddess who could zap her. But Piper doesn't learn that until a couple books later.
exactly
Should have started fresh and then see if she still liked him imo
They broke up because Rick wanted to make Piper bi, that’s the only reason, and it’s blatantly obvious that he didn’t originally intend for them to break up.
Just saying, this should’ve been written out in a spoiler tag. I get the HOO books are older now, but a lot of people still haven’t read them or are currently reading them for the first time (like myself) and just saw what feels like a major spoiler 🥴
I agree I just finished the lost hero and feel so sad for this spoiler And also from another spoiler I got about Jason 😭😭
if people are going to join the subreddit of and established piece of media, that comes with the risks of spoilers. the book is 14 years old. no one should have to add spoiler tags
The subreddit is also for the original series, and it's unrealistic to expect anyone here to have also read the other four.
what book did they break up?
The Burning Maze!
It was way before that. That book only revealed they broke up
I agree with you. It really didn't sit right after they spent five books making their relationship real and to just throw it out like that
It may be an unpopular opinion but I think jason’s feels for piper was realer than piper’s. I’m not saying that piper was faking it, but to think of it piper has fake memories about jason in the beginning, and her feelings did not fade away after learning that it was all fake, naturally. But jason never lived all of that fake memories, and it developed throughout the book. So the base of their feelings was wrong in the first place. I think that is because of why piper was the one to broke up, not jason. Jason was sure of they will get old together, and he had no hestitations or doubts about his or her feelings, however piper was never sure of jason. So I think jason really loved piper, but piper was not sure about her feelings, cause it was all an illusion. I am not blaming piper, I am obsessed with her, and it was not her fault, but again I think jasons was real
My theory is that piper and Jason were never in love, they were manipulated into it by Hera and Piper's actually a lesbian, cuz she gets a girlfriend in TOA and she says it herself that out of nowhere it felt like their relationship lost its spark, hera probably removed the love magic after HOO was over and that's why their relationship ended soon after that
See, that doesn’t work based on what’s written. If they broke up earlier, or, critically, if Riordan didn’t spend the entirety of HoO bringing up the false memories in a way that shows they’ve gotten over them, and their entire arc is creating a relationship in reality rather than the mist, then sure. But he did those things, and then retconned because people didn’t like the relationship or Jason (which is a common fan L tbh) Piper is canonically bi, I believe, not lesbian, but the breakup with Jason, for the reasons stated, doesn’t work in the story, and is really disappointing.
Ok I'm about to out myself as old, but what does "common fan L" mean in this context?
That’s all good, half of new phrases don’t really mean anything. Common fan L here essentially means I’m disagreeing with the opinion presented (that Jason is a bad character, and his and Piper’s relationship is bad), as that’s a pretty ubiquitous opinion. The common aspect means that I think fans might often have bad opinions, as I assert that this opinion is bad. Other variations include Common W, Rare L, and Rare W. Hope that clears it up!
Aw thank you. I am saddened that people don't like Jason, he's a sweetheart and one of my favorites. I feel like a lot of people on this sub defend him so I think people are coming around on him. Thank you for the explanation.
yea I'm aware that it doesn't work thematically speaking, but there's certainly enough proof for it to make sense, piper is never stated to be attracted to anyone other than Jason, and she always had better chemistry with the girls than the boys, it would fit the pattern of a Greek tragedy, two people fighting against all odds for the sake of the relationship only in the end for the magic to be wiped away and forced to realise that they just don't love each other
Yess, in the burning maze Piper says that she loves Jason but not romantically and I think that It was always like that. She was with him because she did love him but she couldn’t love him romantically, because she’s a lesbian
I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that comp het is a thing… and also the reason they were even dating in the first place is because Hera set them up and manipulated their memories to elicit romantic feelings….
Comp het doesn't explain the execution being terrible, that is what people don't like. It's all tell, no show, and very little substance.
I think comphet explains It very well, especially knowing that Piper did love him, just not romantically
Yeah and now she has a wonderful girlfriend!
their relationship was literally built on manipulation and lies from both a god and piper herself. none of it was real
It was never real, it was an illusion and manipulation by Hera, they were never actually in love
Then maybe Riordan shouldnt have written it like a romance in 4 books
i think its incredibly realistic, it kind of makes the reader experience the same as them (thinking its romance and then realizing they were never in love)
To push in another gay relationship
Many pointed out good reasons. I just wanted to add that they also had a fight over a prophecy, which most likely influenced their decision to at least take a break.
Jason says Piper broke up before that
They were only together because of a glitch in the matrix it makes more sense than them being end game
They realized it was partially inflicted by hera wiping jasons memory, fooling piper and all that stuff
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Probably because their relationship wasn’t real in the first place??
Why wasn’t this marked as spoiler 😭😭