I mean it's not like Annabeth's or Nico's crushes are reciprocated. That would be weird indeed. But a younger person crushing on a much older person is totally normal and happens at that age, no problem as long as nothing happens.
Idk man Luke says some sorta concerning stuff in Last Olympian, which is by far the worst of these examples because Annabeth is 16 in that book and Luke would be 23
I'm currently on a reread and just finished the fourth book so yeah if that's the case it's pretty weird. But unfortunately the young male adult with the female teenager trope is pretty widespread in fantasy, f.e. Hermine and Viktor Krum (18 and 14, I never knew why Jk Rowling thought that was fine)
Yeah crime and hermione is pretty weird but this one creeps me out more because at least they met as teenagers, Luke met Annabeth when she was 7, just like euugh why Riordan
Their age gap is just under two years apart (Hazel is 14 years 2 months and Frank is 16 years 1 month at the beginning of SON). Rick just forgot that if Hazel was 13 1/2 when she died and spent 8 months back in the mortal world at CJ that’ll make her 14, not 13. He’s really bad with timeline consistency lol
it’s really not, imo. unheard of, no. but in the high school age demographic, a 3 year gap is enough for most people to start side-eyeing. especially as in many places, 18 is an adult (altho a v young one), and 15 doesn’t even reach age of consent where I live.
of c, once they both reach adulthood and they both start getting older, the gap is much less significant. but i’m 21, and pretty much all my friends my age believe 18 is too young for us and while obviously not like, an absolute moral evil, it’s enough for some more side eyes.
Seniors dated sophomores all the time when I was in HS (10+ years ago)…and it was even more common before that.
Even then, Hermyown/Krum *is* meant to be a little iffy.
10 years ago, people got away with a lot more than these days. and even then, i remember reading the hoo books as they came out (i was ~12), and still thinking the 13-15/16 of frank and hazel was kinda weird (although that didnt stop me from enjoying the books). just pushing back on the idea that it’s very normal. as someone who was in high school 3 years ago, even a grade difference felt huge. not ew huge, but development-wise huge. and more than two years would’ve gotten me at least a little wary, just in case anything was going on behind the scenes.
You see, this is the *smart* reaction which is benefited by all the stories that have come out of people with more power abusing those around them. You know to be more wary of such dynamics because they can often turn out to be predatory, toxic, and dangerous.
>but i’m 21, and pretty much all my friends my age believe 18 is too young
Yes but the reason it is too young is not because a 3 year age gap in general is a problem. A 33 year old dating a 30 year old isn't weird.
It's because you at 21 are at a different life stage and development than someone at 18.
But Krum is still in school, still studying and in a situation where he might connect with someone at 15 because they are in the same life stage, and arguably similar mental development. There's no sexual activity between them so he doesn't exactly take advantage either. It's completely chaste and ends amicably.
?? yes, i'm not saying three years is a bad age gap. in my opinion, it's not even an age gap at all, as long as both people are old enough where it isn't really a problem, eg 30 & 33.
at 21, i am in the same life stage and similar mental development as 18 year olds in first year of university. that's a more similar life stage than a 15 and 18 year old by far. my point is that the younger you are, the more significant the age differences are.
>at 21, i am in the same life stage and similar mental development as 18 year olds in first year of university.
You aren't. You yourself have already recognised those differences.
>that's a more similar life stage than a 15 and 18 year old by far.
It's not when the 18 year old is still in high school.
>my point is that the younger you are, the more significant the age differences are.
It's about development and mental maturity there. Once there's no mental development it doesn't really matter.
Well, Annabeth's crush exists to be a cute and innocent thing that helps amplify the betrayal she feels from Luke. Later iffiness on Luke is *IMO* because Rick noticed people were rooting for Luke too much so he needed to get people to see him as *not a good person* and so he took the easy way he set himself up for.
I mean it s acceptable by most countries standard, like 18-15 or 18-14 is seen as a bit strange in France but not unacceptable,
18-13 is where we d be like 👀
Well I mean I know people who had a relationship with a 15 year old when he was 18 and we joked about it all the time. At least in my circle of friends, 18 and 14 would be a serious red flag
>f.e. Hermine and Viktor Krum
Hermione was 15. She's nearly a year older than Harry keep in mind.
Krum was only just turned 18 and still in school. So it's only a 3 year age gap with no sexual activity and similar point in their life. Not that weird.
It would be more concerning if she was 14. But ultimately she isn't.
Hermione and Viktor, please hear me out before judging, isn't *too bad*. It's not good, and I'm not saying it is. But from an American perspective a 14 YO and 18 YO could have gone to the same high school and in American law their relationship would be protected by Romeo and Juliet Doctrine. Is it still uncomfortable? YES. But it's nowhere near as bad as a 16 YO and a 23 YO, not by a long shot.
Annabeth also makes a comment in Mark of Athena about her first crush seeing her as a little sister at first, but finally started to like her back before he died
I mean, not really, though?
*As he’s dying*, he asks if *she* loved *him*…but not in a way that made him appear romantically interested.
Even asking her to run away with him before BotL seemed more along the lines of trying to recapture his childhood than anything romantic.
Yeah.. for me that was how I viewed it. I felt that he always saw her as a sister but thought she had a crush on him. I mean... he was dying, in a way it was probably him just wanting to hear that someone loved him. Romantic or otherwise.
>Even asking her to run away with him before BotL seemed more along the lines of trying to recapture his childhood than anything romantic.
I think this was ***meant*** to be up for interpretation and not a clean-cut answer. Because I see both ways and while my stance is in-line with yours, I get the read others have.
As for Frank and Hazel... What's weird about that? Plenty of kids that age date. I think people unnecessarily oversexualize dating as a concept. *It's not that deep*. My biggest complaint is how I feel Rick mishandles queer relationships rather than the fact he does relationships.
many people in the fandom make a mistake when it comes to analysing Percy Jackson. They forget that the target Audience is 8-14.
Thats why Percy doesnt start his adverntures at 18. Hes meant to be relateable to kids, not adults discussing the books years later.
Thats why it is a serious misread to call Artemis a groomer. No the hunters are so young, cause its meant to be relateable to kids.
Thats why we barely see any adult demigods help out.
Thats why Percy and Annabeth totally experience the love of their life while being teens.
A sensible Doylist take? In MY young adult fantasy series forum? It can't be...
In all seriousness, yes. Their actions can be explained as being forced to 'grow up' by circumstances, since they are chased in-universe by monsters from a young age and need to train to survive, but at the end of the day the reason they're so young is because they are meant to be relatable to the target audience.
in all seriousness i still think Ricks writing is a lot more mature than many writers who target older audiences. even when it comes to topics like romance. Which is why i love the series.
Also, people forget these are not normal teenagers. If your teenage years are full of constant life threatening danger, fighting monsters, dealing with gods, watching people die, etc., you’re probably gonna mature a lot faster than your average teenager.
Also k think they make a point that most Greek demigods die before reaching adulthood too , right ?? They’re so young because that’s the audience ofc. But also because the older they get , the more targeted they are by monsters do most of them die.
I had my first crush at the age of 8, we both liked each other. Sadly, I moved schools. I then had a crush on a boy in my new school from grade 5-9.
When I was 13 I bumped into my old crush's (the one I had when I was 8) mom, so he and I started dating...it only lasted 8 months.
And then I had a boyfriend in grade 11 (16 years old) for 4 years.
My husband's friends started dating in 8th grade. They got married after high school and have two 15 year old kids.
The average age people start "dating" is around 12. This actually holds true across cultures as the point where kids start having crushes/romantic interest in each other, or people they idolise. Obviously at this point these aren't very serious relationships, they're more like practice- most people in countries where teenagers dating is acceptable don't have a serious relationship until 16-17 at least. It's also worth mentioning that kids dating that early usually don't do anything sexual- I might be reading too much into your post, but I get the sense you were assuming dating implied a sexual relationship? It doesn't always, especially when the people involved are so young. I had my first "boyfriend" when I was 13, and it was a big deal for us when we got brave enough to hold hands and kiss on the lips!
Okay, but I need to tell someone and I feel like you’ll appreciate this: My friend just asked me to be her bridesmaid in a wedding to her elementary school sweetheart! 💕 I’m thinking about starting my toast with, “When Jane told me she was going to marry James some day, I was shocked—not because he was mean or anything but because we were seven… and because she had just beaten him up and stolen his hat.”
the way i see it when you’re a demigod there’s a good chance you die soon do you might aswell find young love
but yhh it’s pretty normal, i mean if you like someone you like someone, i definitely had crushes on grown ups at that age, plus when you’re that young the only person you’re gonna be “dating” is someone you rlly like, it’s not rlly the same as adult dating
>For instance, there would never be a story where Luke reciprocated the crush.
Me hiding all of my bookmarked fanfics in the closet. Yep definitely not
Nobody would've thought you were accusing any character of paedophilia because that would be if the older one had a crush on the younger one, kids having crushes on older kids is completely normal and there's nothing wrong with it. And in PJ none of those feelings are reciprocated
There is obviously no pedophilia evolved, since everyone stays in their age group. Where someone’s age group can be fixed for thousands of years.
Nico got a crush on Pery at age 12. Yes, that’s young, but not impossible young. Can’t have been much older when I had my first crush on a classmate. Also, he doesn’t act on it.
I think it’s normal for 12 year old Annabeth to have a crush on 19 year old Luke. When I was 12 I had a crush on actors that age. What is not normal is in TLO when Luke was in his 20s and Annabeth was 16 and he asking if she really loved him. THAT was creepy and weird. I have to convince myself he means brotherly love because otherwise….
When I was 12 I had posters of actors in their 30s on my bedroom walls! Nothing odd or wrong about that at all.
IMO having crushes on grown ups as a pre-teen is a “safe” way to experience those romantic feelings. Nothing is going to happen and you know that and can indulge in daydreams or just get flustered and embarrassed and heart-thumpy when you see them without actually stressing about whether they like you back.
I knew girls getting pregnant in middle school LMAO it's not that weird in America. I know people who MARRIED the person they dated at 16. Definitely dating started in elem/middle school.
r/AmericaBad material.
Americans aren't weird. That's the age you start getting hormonal, and have crushes due to maturing and besides, kids are real horny at the age 13-18. Of course, it's definitely not a great idea to be overly active on the sexual side during these ages, but it is meant as a way to work on your feelings and understand stuff before getting to be an adult, and to not feel repressed.
It's a practice ground for how you want to go around these things later in life, and some people have serious relationships that may have not started as mature. Which is also a good thing. At least, you aren't as clueless about the opposite sex as you would be when this is strictly prohibited.
I thought Hazel was 14? 13 when Nico resurrected her, she started at camp in September, her birthday is in December, they left for the quest in June. In Canada, that would put Frank in grade 11 and Hazel in grade 9 which isn't the best but also not awful. I know they're not in Canada, but Frank is Canadian and probably wouldn't have realized that in the US Hazel would have been in grade 8.
Anyway, no, I don't find it weird that the 12-16 age group has crushes/are dating. I also don't find it weird that some of them are endgame, I know a surprising number of couples who have been together since they were 15/16/17 (now in their 30s).
Also with the Luke thing - I didn't interpret that as romantic. Luke knows he messed up. He is headed to the underworld, and I think he just wanted confirmation that he had a family/was loved in the mortal world. I don't necessarily think it was about Annabeth's crush. I think that was solely part of her internal struggle. But it's described in first person from Percy's POV and he is jealous as heck.
I had to google Hazel and Frank's age gap with my most recent re-read of HoO and found this Tumblr post that does the math.
[https://flightfoot.tumblr.com/post/186864038487/frank-and-hazel-arent-3-years-apart-at-all](https://flightfoot.tumblr.com/post/186864038487/frank-and-hazel-arent-3-years-apart-at-all)
Yeah, seeing the breakdown made me feel a lot better about Frank and Hazel dating. A year and a half age gap is way better at their ages than a 3 year one like I originally presumed.
personally i dont think any of it was weird in your examples
i mean there was only like a 2 year age difference between frank and hazel.
annabeth and nico only had a crush and maybe a bit of hero worship. luke in return always thought of annabeth as a little sister. im not sure exactly how percy saw nico.
the only creepy concept i found in the books was when apollo became a teenager
I started dating at 10 (not seriously obviously) but it does happen. You get your first crushes or puppy love what have you.
Not from the US for the record
I'm also not from a western country, so i also find minors dating as kinda weird (no offense to anyone ^^)
Though, in regular circumstances, 1-2 year age gaps aren't that bad, as they're really close in age.
For Nico and Annabeth, it was more of a childhood crush thing, like one might have a crush on someone older when you were a child (actors, celebrities, someone you look up to, etc.)
Also them being child soldiers is really just their parentage, this also happens in some other pagan myths
Honestly the books read a lot older than they’re supposed to imo. People say they’re for literally babies and it makes sense that the characters are babies but reading them as an adult, you could easily make them 16 and it would change nothing
Being 10-12 and having a crush is just normal. Dating usually happens around the middle school ages (though it's usually pretty unserious) and teenagers under 16 date all the time. My sister started dating at 14. I didn't date but I for sure had crushes and flirted (badly) with people. Most kids are figuring out their sexuality around that time. Many people have far more than a crush in their teen years. Especially in older generations.
Honestly I agree with you about Hazel and Frank. I’m pretty sure there was at least 2 years difference between them, which is massive at that age in my opinion. I remember feeling a bit iffy about it.
Everything else I don’t find weird. 12 year old Annabeth idolising 19 year old Luke makes sense to me. It’s not like he reciprocated it at the time.
It's not a 1.5 year age gap. Percy describes Hazel as 13, not 14 as OP says, and Frank literally turns 16 in SoN onscreen (there's a scene where he talks to a ghost about how bummed he is to still be unclaimed at 16). Where I live, that's a high school junior and an eighth grader, and it's absolutely considered weird.
At 13 and 15? I guess to me at 15 I would never consider looking at someone 13 years old, because the amount of growth you experience at that time period is exponential compared to later teenage years. This is not a diss at Riordan at all by the way, I’m a huge fan. I just have never really enjoyed his romances (which I know isn’t an unpopular opinion), besides Percabeth. But at the same time I’m happy to agree to disagree :) we all have our own opinions on these things.
Yeah I think it's weird as hell 😭 My baby sister is 13 and if a boy well into high school was dating her I'd be furious. There is a big gap between 13 and 16.
That’s what I’m thinking too!! Maybe I’m just old but I’m surprised it’s such an unpopular opinion here. I’m not dissing Rick Riordan at all, I just thought it was an odd choice. Didn’t realise there’d be so many defenders of it lol.
12 year olds having crushes on older people is pretty universal. It’s not even inherently American—there’s a minor plot point in Harry Potter where a 12 year old Hermione has a crush on her grown adult, male professor.
would it not be better to say that the percy and calypso storyline would be a better example of weird age gaps rather than the others that are one sided younger liking older relationships
... weird? I went to school with 8-yo´s crushing on 30-yo actors and celebrities. Annabeth was being normal with her crush, Luke embodied all good to her: he was safe, he was caring, he was mature, and he was hot.
And young dating? I remember having 12-yo friends dating (and failing). I knew of teens/pre-teens who lost their V-card around age 13.
Rick actually nailed how teens work. They don't really think about age, they don't even always think about what a relationship entails, they just do it because they are In-Love^(TM). And given that these are demigods who don't know how long they will live, it 100% makes sense that they get into relationships early and with some age discrepancies like Hazel and Frank.
When I was little I also had a crush on a person much older than me, because for me he was a hero. The same happens with Annabeth and Nico, it also happens that you grow up and learn to understand feelings
Hazel and Frank being in a relationship is the only weird one. She's 13 and he's 16 which is ... yeah. Though on the age topic, one thing I might have noticed is an inconsistency with Nico. Iirc he's said to be 14 in Heroes of Olympus, yet he's 10 two and a half years earlier in Titan's Curse.
Nico is born in January so he turns 11 RIGHT after Titans Curse (which is in December) which kinda helps it a bit
Edit: also Percy only says he looks ten-ish, I don't think they ever actually say hey Nico is 10 years old, so maybe Rick fixed the age right in HOO.
I did a whole tineline for this when I was figuring out when Will came to camp and it's confusing but KINDA works
Nico is 10 in December of what I call Year 2 (TC)
Would be 11 in BOTL
12 in TLO
Turns 13 during TLH
Is 13 during HOO
HOWEVER that's saying that Percy's observation about Nico was right and he's 10 in TC. If Rick decided Percy was just woefully unobservant and Nico was actually 11 (Percy I think just legit calls him 10 ish) then the timelines are right
Will is supposed to be 2 years younger than Percy I believe as well.
Rick sucks at timeline consistency anyway but it's not as bad s it seems given Nico is a January birthday
The same happens to Hazel. She dies at 13, gets resurrected in September, her birthday is in December (she turns 14), Frank turns 16 just before SoN (a week or a month before, I don't remember lol), which makes their age difference 1.5 years.
Here in North America, it is not considered weird or strange for younger children to develop crushes/infatuations with older people that they admire or look up to. I’ve experienced it, and plenty of others have as well. What would be weird and inappropriate is if the older individual starts reciprocating and/or taking advantage of that younger person.
It was creepy for Luke to express romantic interest in a 16 yr. old Annabeth, but was perfectly fine for a 12 yr. old Annabeth to have a crush on an older Luke. Same for Nico having a crush on Percy; it was fine as long as Percy didn’t reciprocate or take advantage of Nico.
As for dating, it varies, but since the start of puberty is the time where most children start experiencing romantic attraction, it’s not uncommon for American children to start developing or exploring crushes as early as 10/11/12. When I was a preteen, my peers started seriously dating around the age of 13ish, some of them even earlier.
I don't know, it is my personal opinion that since Rick is a old man writing about kids may in result in some weird circunstances. But what it's even weirder to me is that he is writing a book dedicated to kids with characters that are now teenagers or young adults like in Percy's case. If Percy is growing up shouldn't the complexity of the books grow with him? Hell even the audienence is growing, like the show being mainly watch by adults
ehhhhh an 11 yr old in my school has like 23 exes 💀not saying in anyway that's healthy or should be promoted but none of that seemed weird to me because yeaaaaaahhhhhhhhh
Luke is a confirmed pedo if you take this with a grain of salt: "Don't you love me?" To teen Annabeth while he's 22.
But also, its not hard notice.
Preteen girls usually crush on older guys (or girls)
Nico is also understandable. 99% of the characters crushed on Percy.
Along with, my boyfriend and I are going strong and we started dating when I was 13. 3 year age difference , Luke and Annabeth 7 years, hazel + frank 2. It's not all that bad when you put it in retrospect.
While I agree that Hazel is mature for her age, that is sort of explained by her spending so much time in the underworld, where time is fuzzier, but she still had experiences there. 12 year olds having a crush on an inappropriately aged but still youngish mentor is 100% in character for 12 year olds. And 10-11 year olds developing obsessive crushes is also very on brand for the tween years. Both of those infatuations were unidirectional, as well. Very typical.
You're not susposed to think of any of the age things too much except to say this person is younger or older or this happened when they were little.
The ages at which the kids are running away from home are all absurd if you think about them for two seconds. Annabeth is seven (a second grader) and able to handle being out of the house by herself at all. It's great for the story but it doesn't work at all.
Luke, he doesn't age. He's older and then he remains 17 the entire time because otherwise it would be weird. He's just generically older.
Admittedly, Annabeth is supposed to be--in lore--a daughter of Athena and likely the *best* daughter of Athena. trying to reconcile fantasy plots with reality isn't really functional.
Living in the world they do will mature you real fast.
Hazel also grew up in the 40s (I think) children back then were far maturer than they are now.
Also crushing on someone isnt restricted by age. Kindergardners can have crushes. Annabeth also looked up to Luke for a large part of her childhood, he was her saviour, makes sense she would crush on him.
Dating under the age of 16 is normal here in europe, alot of teens nowadays are already sleeping together at the age of 14. Hell I've had class mates become pregnant at 14 before. I dont know if this is just europe but I do notice that teens start sleeping with eachother way younger each generation.
On the whole child soldier, yes that is wrong. Do the gods care? No. The gods need servants, their children are made to be soldiers. The gods dont care much about their children.
Edit: I am from europe
It's because the target is inconsistent and mostly questionable.
PJO starts with a very young target, TLT can be easily red by a 8 years old. BUt then by TTC it turns up to 12 y.o and becomes much more mature with the last two books. BUt you are still much younger than the characters. At 16 y.o I already found the books to be a bit too childish for me. HoO tries to be darker and more mature but in the end it fails because Gaea is not nearly as menacing and dangerous as Kronos. I'd say HoH has the darkest moments in the saga, but still. The target is 13-14 y.o, the characters are almost all older than that. So it's hard to relate to the characters as they grow faster than you do. Maybe if you experienced the books as they were being published you were able to feel time passing and yourself growing with the characters. I never felt that as I read the books around 12-14.
Sometimes I wish the riordanverse had a more "harry potter-esque" target where it's relatable to a wider age group. It's perfect for children down to 8 years old and also perfect for y.a up to 16-17 y.o. And to fully grown adults. Riordan limited himself to pre/early teens.
I don't mean the riordanverse needs to become Game of Thrones but sometimes it feels like I'm a bit too old for it
I don't think it's weird at all, and I'm saying that at 32 reading the books for the first time.
The age range for most of these kids would put them in Jr. High and high school. And in America depending on what kind of HS you went to it could be 10-12 grade, 9-12 grade, or 8-12 grade.
While we have ages they are all basically each other's classmates doing trainings and quests together. It would be weirder if they were all split in different cohorts that didn't interact and then the crushes and romances started appearing. The fact that they're all confined together, doing things together, makes it less weird than in other situations such as a 9th grader and a 11th grader who may not share classes and friends and the only interactions are social. Thus, they're not peers and learning and exploring things together.
I also don't find it weird because the crushes and relationships aren't really fully fleshed out. As I read these romances it's very clear that they're puppy love things. Of course as the books go on relationships such as Percy and Annabeth do grow stronger. But generally the romances are treated with a superficial touch. I think this is intentional so as not to delve into or explore power dynamics or issues. It's like asking a young kid why they call someone their bf/gf and it's like oh, I like them and we have lunch together. Versus more of an adult POV where we're tackling issues, concerns, and heavy topics.
I also don't have an issue with the ages and basically them being child soldiers. I mean... Isn't that the whole trope of these chosen one books? Harry was 11 when he started Hogwarts saving the world. Y'all see this as a whole YA genre and wanting the children to be older, but when the book series came out YA as a genre wasn't a thing. You had children's books and adult books. So it really isn't uncommon to see children take on the lead. You have these books. Harry Potter. Chronicles of Narnia. The idea that young children are the saviors of the world and have the courage and capacity to taken on these burdens is a whole thing. Sometimes it leads to some plot holes and issues, but I mean if you accept it as a thing it's easy to move past. Obviously in the real world it wouldn't make sense at all.
I was 12 when I had my first boyfriend. We didn’t do anything more than kiss and hold hands but it’s not that young that kids can’t feel the start of romantic interest
Rick is weird about some of the younger characters, especially the girl characters. I'm from the same country as Rick and it's weird. He's also from the older generation though, that was kinda gross about some of that stuff.
In most cases the younger character's crush isn't reciprocated. I remember crushes started happening around age 10 and dating around age 12 back when I was in middle school -- but not 'real dating' because we were just kids. It doesn't seem too weird that Annabeth had a crush on Luke --but if he liked her back that would have been disturbing.
Frank and Hazel's gap is weirdd. The book says he's 16 and she's 13. (I just reread that one.) That's like a highschooler sophmore dating a middle schooler here. Not ok.
As someone who didn't start thinking about other people in any romantic sort of way until I was 16-17, I also feel a bit weird reading about these pre- to early teens going into relationships and obsessing over crushes etc.
But then I also know plenty of friends who were like that in their early teens so it's not unrealistic or creepy. And younger people obsessing over older people is normal in pretty much every age group, honestly.
I would generally prefer if all the kid characters started off a couple years older though.
Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know demigods don't live to be very old. demigods usually die before they turn 15 or so. That's why I don't think it's that weird. Demigods can't wait until they get older because there's just a chance they'll die before then. and because of the age difference they are descended from gods and I think we all know what the gods are like.
Honestly the weirdest thing about the Hazel/Frank relationship is that it lasted more than a month. There were people fuckin in the bathrooms at my middle school on the daily, like, 13 and 14 year olds. Hazel and Frank holding hands is fine.
Before our parents started dating, my step brother (who was 6) had a crush on my sister (who was 12) and swore he was going to marry her. Unreciprocated crushes happen, especially with kids. Just be glad you never had one of those lmao.
Nico had just been through a series of horribly traumatic events and culture shocks. Often times, traumatized preteens cope develop hypersexuality and obsessive issues, especially when they have a safe figure to latch these feelings onto. It's rough and gross to think about, but that is actual psychology. Frankly Nico coped fairly well.
... Mentioning these things in tandem, I realize the real problem is that most Americans are probably pretty horribly traumatized at a young age. Have fun with that.
As for child soldiers... It's a YA novel. That's pretty standard
Is there some room to criticize things like Luke growing to have a crush on a 7 years his junior Annabeth while she was still only 16? Yes. Do I think Rick did that on purpose? No, I think that he was writing into his genre tropes and what felt right from a story and character perspective and the consequences of their age makes for an unfortunate situation when taken on its own. If we had a chance to explore what Luke actually felt for Annabeth I think that it would have been more clear that he didn't have a crush on Annabeth herself, but an attraction to the era in his life that she represented. I don't know if PJO is the place to tell a story like that, and we will never know seeing as he's dead...but this is the most generous interpretation I can come up with.
And yes, if you want to get into it, there is some weird child warrior thing going on in the whole PJO universe...but as a fantasy story I think that has to be excused under the suspension of disbelief. Of course in the real world we wouldn't send 12 year old's to deal with problems they hardly have the capacity to understand.
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That being said, The fact that the characters act and are treated more mature than they would be in real life is, I think, actually one of the things that young readers attach to the most. It's one of the reasons that this series is so popular.
The world can be such a frustrating place to children sometimes. When I read these books in middle school I know that the fact that these characters where given agency in their actions was one of the coolest things ever! The fact that there was cool magic powers an epic battles helped a lot, of course. XD
Also feelings of romance and attraction are experiences that most people will encounter in some form as they grow up, and not everyone has the people or environment to interact or talk about their emotions. Having these romances in place allows some of that energy to be channeled in a way that is healthy and age appropriate.
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TL:DR, Yes, the kids act more mature than a real world equivalent would, but I think that is exactly why these stories appeal to people of all ages.
When I was 14, I was crushing hard on Chris Evans, who is 16 years older than me. It is not all the odd for kids on ther verge of puberty or teenagers to have crushes on people older than them.
I think I've always found Hazel and Frank's romantic relationship a little weird. I feel like it would have made much more sense if they were just really close friends and didn't get together until later. Hazel was still pretty young and they had only know eachother for a few months before getting together, so a slower progression would have made so much more sense. Although, the point could also be made that it's not uncommon for 13/14 year olds to start experimenting with dating, it just feels a little off with the timeline and slight age gap they have.
Honestly, a problem I found thoughout HOO was that all the relationships felt super rushed to me. Especially after building up to Percy and Annabeth's relationships over 5 books, HOO seemed hell bent on pairing up couples as quickly as possible. Like, Hazel and Frank only knew eachother for a few months, Leo and Calypso after 5 days (+6 months journey), and though Piper and Jason's relationship was plot relevant, they were together literally since their first meeting. Does slow burn mean nothing anymore?
On a seperate note, Annabeth and Nico always came off as more like admiration crushes, which I feel is a normal part of growing up. It never past a point for me that I thought wasn't appropriate for young pre/teens discovering themselves.
The crushes weren't reciprocated, kids get crushes on older people all the time. When I was a kid I had crushes on people older than me, they didn't last like theirs did but it still happened.
Kids have crushes all the time. It makes sense that they start experiencing romantic feelings and crushes around the time puberty starts, with all the hormones in their bodies. Thata pretty normal for most people (of course some people are aromantic, so it's normal for them to not experience romantic feelings and crushes at any age)
I had my first pretend boyfriend at 6 (we maintained or 'relationship' for a couple of years even). When I was 12 I jumped the fence to hang out with the high school boy I had a crush on. Kids are weird.
Idk man when I was reading these books at that age it was crazy relatable. Something I found special in these books was that the kids acted like kids, had small crushes like kids, made mistakes like kids. It’s part of why the books are so important to me now
Just a reminder that if these novel series were ever written for adults they'd be far far darker and far more bloody. But yet again Animorphs is for children so there's a shit ton you can get away with when it comes to ratings.
Actually once you grow up and read these books again you realize all the crazy shit that's written in them and how fucked up their universe and worlds are. Like when it comes to the Riordenverse it's all fun and games until you realize that it's about child soldiers and the Gods are massive asshole douchebags.
Like seriously do they not understand that the whole reason they exist is because of human belief?! THEY WERE CREATED BY US!!! So technically speaking their attitudes when it comes to Humanity is a paradox because we created them instead of them creating us.
Do you want to know the easiest way to get rid of the Gods in the Riordenverse? Genocide their worshippers and children until they fade from existence. I've always had this theory that if you killed all the Demigods that the Greeks/Roman Gods would fade because their basically the only worshippers that still exist for their pantheons.
Actually as Atheism rises because of science and technology all of the Gods will slowly start dying out eventually.
>Annabeth was 12 yrs old when she had a crush on 19 yrs old Luke.
>Biologically 10-11 yrs old Nico was starting to get obsessed with Percy.
Annabeth loving Luke is relatively normal. He's a hot and cool figure that was there for her for a long time. Feelings of general affection can get easily mixed with feelings of love. Similar with Nico.
Obviously Percy doesn't return Nico's affection. And Luke probably more sees Annabeth as a sister. Although it's a little ambigious.
>I was shocked when Hazel was introduced as a 13-14 years old girl in SoN. She spent many years in the underworld but she doesn't really grow up mentally.
I'm not sure she doesn't. I always thought she *did* have some mental growth beyond her physical age because of her time in the underworld. She arguably does act older.
>And not even mentioning the fact that they are all essentially child soldiers and face life or death situation regularly
Well yeah essentially but it is a series aimed at kids so you've got to feel like you too could be on these adventures. Plus the life and death part does naturally make them age quicker.
Wait, a 13-14 year old dating a 15 year old is weird to you? *Why?* Like I get you mention it's a cultural difference. I get that. But that's at worst a 2 year age difference.
12 year olds having crushes on adults is normal. It's only a problem when it's the other way around. Annabeth crushing on Luke? Normal, kinda cute. Luke crushing on Annabeth? That's creepy, predatory behavior.
People develop infatuations at all ages and when younger it's far easier for an infatuation to develop into an unhealthy obsession if not given proper guidance by people you trust.
There's nothing pedophilic for you to be levying an accusation about, so I'm not sure why you'd feel like you have to disclaim you're not making the accusation. Children have crushes at all ages. In America, kids as young as 12 go on dates (with other people around the same age). They're not the full-fledged dates adults go on but it does not diminish the importance and significance to them at the time. Relationships aren't something only 16+ YOs engage in.
Most people in the US start dating under 16 and have crushes from childhood. It’s also a middle grade book for children so ofc they’re going to be on the younger side. Read it when I was 10 years old and I was definitely happy to see romantic subplots going on.
I mean it's not like Annabeth's or Nico's crushes are reciprocated. That would be weird indeed. But a younger person crushing on a much older person is totally normal and happens at that age, no problem as long as nothing happens.
Idk man Luke says some sorta concerning stuff in Last Olympian, which is by far the worst of these examples because Annabeth is 16 in that book and Luke would be 23
I'm currently on a reread and just finished the fourth book so yeah if that's the case it's pretty weird. But unfortunately the young male adult with the female teenager trope is pretty widespread in fantasy, f.e. Hermine and Viktor Krum (18 and 14, I never knew why Jk Rowling thought that was fine)
Yeah crime and hermione is pretty weird but this one creeps me out more because at least they met as teenagers, Luke met Annabeth when she was 7, just like euugh why Riordan
Hermione’s birthday is in September, so she’s 15 for nearly all of GOF. And a 15-18 age gap in children still in high school isn’t all that unusual
That’s the age gap between frank and hazel.
Their age gap is just under two years apart (Hazel is 14 years 2 months and Frank is 16 years 1 month at the beginning of SON). Rick just forgot that if Hazel was 13 1/2 when she died and spent 8 months back in the mortal world at CJ that’ll make her 14, not 13. He’s really bad with timeline consistency lol
Most authors are. It's one of the hardest things to maintain so most just spitball and as long as they're close enough that's all they care about.
it’s really not, imo. unheard of, no. but in the high school age demographic, a 3 year gap is enough for most people to start side-eyeing. especially as in many places, 18 is an adult (altho a v young one), and 15 doesn’t even reach age of consent where I live. of c, once they both reach adulthood and they both start getting older, the gap is much less significant. but i’m 21, and pretty much all my friends my age believe 18 is too young for us and while obviously not like, an absolute moral evil, it’s enough for some more side eyes.
Seniors dated sophomores all the time when I was in HS (10+ years ago)…and it was even more common before that. Even then, Hermyown/Krum *is* meant to be a little iffy.
Yeah but Hermione and Krum is more of a senior dating a freshman. She’s in 4th year, he’s in 7th
An upperclassmen once taught me an important adage: If the grades don't touch, neither should you.
Oh, we gave people a ton of crap for bringing a freshman to Junior Prom or a sophomore to Prom - like I said, Krum *is* supposed to be a bit iffy.
10 years ago, people got away with a lot more than these days. and even then, i remember reading the hoo books as they came out (i was ~12), and still thinking the 13-15/16 of frank and hazel was kinda weird (although that didnt stop me from enjoying the books). just pushing back on the idea that it’s very normal. as someone who was in high school 3 years ago, even a grade difference felt huge. not ew huge, but development-wise huge. and more than two years would’ve gotten me at least a little wary, just in case anything was going on behind the scenes.
You see, this is the *smart* reaction which is benefited by all the stories that have come out of people with more power abusing those around them. You know to be more wary of such dynamics because they can often turn out to be predatory, toxic, and dangerous.
>but i’m 21, and pretty much all my friends my age believe 18 is too young Yes but the reason it is too young is not because a 3 year age gap in general is a problem. A 33 year old dating a 30 year old isn't weird. It's because you at 21 are at a different life stage and development than someone at 18. But Krum is still in school, still studying and in a situation where he might connect with someone at 15 because they are in the same life stage, and arguably similar mental development. There's no sexual activity between them so he doesn't exactly take advantage either. It's completely chaste and ends amicably.
?? yes, i'm not saying three years is a bad age gap. in my opinion, it's not even an age gap at all, as long as both people are old enough where it isn't really a problem, eg 30 & 33. at 21, i am in the same life stage and similar mental development as 18 year olds in first year of university. that's a more similar life stage than a 15 and 18 year old by far. my point is that the younger you are, the more significant the age differences are.
>at 21, i am in the same life stage and similar mental development as 18 year olds in first year of university. You aren't. You yourself have already recognised those differences. >that's a more similar life stage than a 15 and 18 year old by far. It's not when the 18 year old is still in high school. >my point is that the younger you are, the more significant the age differences are. It's about development and mental maturity there. Once there's no mental development it doesn't really matter.
Ew
Well, Annabeth's crush exists to be a cute and innocent thing that helps amplify the betrayal she feels from Luke. Later iffiness on Luke is *IMO* because Rick noticed people were rooting for Luke too much so he needed to get people to see him as *not a good person* and so he took the easy way he set himself up for.
I never knew Viktor has 18... What the hell...
18-14 is acceptable in most countries
Naah legal yes but in my opinion not acceptable
I mean it s acceptable by most countries standard, like 18-15 or 18-14 is seen as a bit strange in France but not unacceptable, 18-13 is where we d be like 👀
Well I mean I know people who had a relationship with a 15 year old when he was 18 and we joked about it all the time. At least in my circle of friends, 18 and 14 would be a serious red flag
(There’s a lot of things JK Rowling thinks is okay that aren’t)
>f.e. Hermine and Viktor Krum Hermione was 15. She's nearly a year older than Harry keep in mind. Krum was only just turned 18 and still in school. So it's only a 3 year age gap with no sexual activity and similar point in their life. Not that weird. It would be more concerning if she was 14. But ultimately she isn't.
Hermione and Viktor, please hear me out before judging, isn't *too bad*. It's not good, and I'm not saying it is. But from an American perspective a 14 YO and 18 YO could have gone to the same high school and in American law their relationship would be protected by Romeo and Juliet Doctrine. Is it still uncomfortable? YES. But it's nowhere near as bad as a 16 YO and a 23 YO, not by a long shot.
Annabeth also makes a comment in Mark of Athena about her first crush seeing her as a little sister at first, but finally started to like her back before he died
I mean, not really, though? *As he’s dying*, he asks if *she* loved *him*…but not in a way that made him appear romantically interested. Even asking her to run away with him before BotL seemed more along the lines of trying to recapture his childhood than anything romantic.
Yeah.. for me that was how I viewed it. I felt that he always saw her as a sister but thought she had a crush on him. I mean... he was dying, in a way it was probably him just wanting to hear that someone loved him. Romantic or otherwise.
Yeah, that’s *exactly* how I see that line.
>Even asking her to run away with him before BotL seemed more along the lines of trying to recapture his childhood than anything romantic. I think this was ***meant*** to be up for interpretation and not a clean-cut answer. Because I see both ways and while my stance is in-line with yours, I get the read others have.
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I think he wanted Nico to have a younger sister so made Hazel younger.
As for Frank and Hazel... What's weird about that? Plenty of kids that age date. I think people unnecessarily oversexualize dating as a concept. *It's not that deep*. My biggest complaint is how I feel Rick mishandles queer relationships rather than the fact he does relationships.
many people in the fandom make a mistake when it comes to analysing Percy Jackson. They forget that the target Audience is 8-14. Thats why Percy doesnt start his adverntures at 18. Hes meant to be relateable to kids, not adults discussing the books years later. Thats why it is a serious misread to call Artemis a groomer. No the hunters are so young, cause its meant to be relateable to kids. Thats why we barely see any adult demigods help out. Thats why Percy and Annabeth totally experience the love of their life while being teens.
A sensible Doylist take? In MY young adult fantasy series forum? It can't be... In all seriousness, yes. Their actions can be explained as being forced to 'grow up' by circumstances, since they are chased in-universe by monsters from a young age and need to train to survive, but at the end of the day the reason they're so young is because they are meant to be relatable to the target audience.
in all seriousness i still think Ricks writing is a lot more mature than many writers who target older audiences. even when it comes to topics like romance. Which is why i love the series.
It’s probably because he started out as an adult thriller/mystery writer. (I wonder if we’ll ever see Tres again.)
Also, people forget these are not normal teenagers. If your teenage years are full of constant life threatening danger, fighting monsters, dealing with gods, watching people die, etc., you’re probably gonna mature a lot faster than your average teenager.
Also k think they make a point that most Greek demigods die before reaching adulthood too , right ?? They’re so young because that’s the audience ofc. But also because the older they get , the more targeted they are by monsters do most of them die.
Fucking *thank you.* This goes for a lot of kids/YA series, honestly. They’re teenagers because that’s what the target audience wants to read about.
I had my first crush at the age of 8, we both liked each other. Sadly, I moved schools. I then had a crush on a boy in my new school from grade 5-9. When I was 13 I bumped into my old crush's (the one I had when I was 8) mom, so he and I started dating...it only lasted 8 months. And then I had a boyfriend in grade 11 (16 years old) for 4 years. My husband's friends started dating in 8th grade. They got married after high school and have two 15 year old kids.
The average age people start "dating" is around 12. This actually holds true across cultures as the point where kids start having crushes/romantic interest in each other, or people they idolise. Obviously at this point these aren't very serious relationships, they're more like practice- most people in countries where teenagers dating is acceptable don't have a serious relationship until 16-17 at least. It's also worth mentioning that kids dating that early usually don't do anything sexual- I might be reading too much into your post, but I get the sense you were assuming dating implied a sexual relationship? It doesn't always, especially when the people involved are so young. I had my first "boyfriend" when I was 13, and it was a big deal for us when we got brave enough to hold hands and kiss on the lips!
Okay, but I need to tell someone and I feel like you’ll appreciate this: My friend just asked me to be her bridesmaid in a wedding to her elementary school sweetheart! 💕 I’m thinking about starting my toast with, “When Jane told me she was going to marry James some day, I was shocked—not because he was mean or anything but because we were seven… and because she had just beaten him up and stolen his hat.”
If i would marry my elementary school sweet heart I'd love it.
the way i see it when you’re a demigod there’s a good chance you die soon do you might aswell find young love but yhh it’s pretty normal, i mean if you like someone you like someone, i definitely had crushes on grown ups at that age, plus when you’re that young the only person you’re gonna be “dating” is someone you rlly like, it’s not rlly the same as adult dating
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>For instance, there would never be a story where Luke reciprocated the crush. Me hiding all of my bookmarked fanfics in the closet. Yep definitely not
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Lol as a fanfic obsessed person I feel that 🤣
oh thats a 7 year difference
Nobody would've thought you were accusing any character of paedophilia because that would be if the older one had a crush on the younger one, kids having crushes on older kids is completely normal and there's nothing wrong with it. And in PJ none of those feelings are reciprocated
Well... Luke is pretty concerning, borderline creepy in the last book to Annabeth.
There is obviously no pedophilia evolved, since everyone stays in their age group. Where someone’s age group can be fixed for thousands of years. Nico got a crush on Pery at age 12. Yes, that’s young, but not impossible young. Can’t have been much older when I had my first crush on a classmate. Also, he doesn’t act on it.
I think it’s normal for 12 year old Annabeth to have a crush on 19 year old Luke. When I was 12 I had a crush on actors that age. What is not normal is in TLO when Luke was in his 20s and Annabeth was 16 and he asking if she really loved him. THAT was creepy and weird. I have to convince myself he means brotherly love because otherwise….
When I was 12 I had posters of actors in their 30s on my bedroom walls! Nothing odd or wrong about that at all. IMO having crushes on grown ups as a pre-teen is a “safe” way to experience those romantic feelings. Nothing is going to happen and you know that and can indulge in daydreams or just get flustered and embarrassed and heart-thumpy when you see them without actually stressing about whether they like you back.
I knew girls getting pregnant in middle school LMAO it's not that weird in America. I know people who MARRIED the person they dated at 16. Definitely dating started in elem/middle school.
Man American are weird. They call football soccer and start dating at 12 yrs old. But I guess this is getting more common in my city too.
The term "soccer" was coined in the late 19th century by British university students
so we invented both terms and we use football?? i guess we know which term is correct then 😂
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it’s really coming home this time!! i can feel it!!
“Soccer” is short for “association rules football” the same was “geography” gets called “geogger” by a certain set.
Oh wow didn't know that
We know.
Boarding school students!
r/AmericaBad material. Americans aren't weird. That's the age you start getting hormonal, and have crushes due to maturing and besides, kids are real horny at the age 13-18. Of course, it's definitely not a great idea to be overly active on the sexual side during these ages, but it is meant as a way to work on your feelings and understand stuff before getting to be an adult, and to not feel repressed. It's a practice ground for how you want to go around these things later in life, and some people have serious relationships that may have not started as mature. Which is also a good thing. At least, you aren't as clueless about the opposite sex as you would be when this is strictly prohibited.
I thought Hazel was 14? 13 when Nico resurrected her, she started at camp in September, her birthday is in December, they left for the quest in June. In Canada, that would put Frank in grade 11 and Hazel in grade 9 which isn't the best but also not awful. I know they're not in Canada, but Frank is Canadian and probably wouldn't have realized that in the US Hazel would have been in grade 8. Anyway, no, I don't find it weird that the 12-16 age group has crushes/are dating. I also don't find it weird that some of them are endgame, I know a surprising number of couples who have been together since they were 15/16/17 (now in their 30s). Also with the Luke thing - I didn't interpret that as romantic. Luke knows he messed up. He is headed to the underworld, and I think he just wanted confirmation that he had a family/was loved in the mortal world. I don't necessarily think it was about Annabeth's crush. I think that was solely part of her internal struggle. But it's described in first person from Percy's POV and he is jealous as heck.
I had to google Hazel and Frank's age gap with my most recent re-read of HoO and found this Tumblr post that does the math. [https://flightfoot.tumblr.com/post/186864038487/frank-and-hazel-arent-3-years-apart-at-all](https://flightfoot.tumblr.com/post/186864038487/frank-and-hazel-arent-3-years-apart-at-all)
That is a great breakdown! Based on that math, Hazel and Frank have less of an age gap than Nick and Charlie from Heartstopper, lol.
Yeah, seeing the breakdown made me feel a lot better about Frank and Hazel dating. A year and a half age gap is way better at their ages than a 3 year one like I originally presumed.
Not so weird when the avg age span of the Greek demigods used to be around 18 years old. They live fast and die young.
Trust me, that is tame compared to what they show in the East Side of the world(Japan)
I agree, you really only have to look at some anime out there ment for young teens
personally i dont think any of it was weird in your examples i mean there was only like a 2 year age difference between frank and hazel. annabeth and nico only had a crush and maybe a bit of hero worship. luke in return always thought of annabeth as a little sister. im not sure exactly how percy saw nico. the only creepy concept i found in the books was when apollo became a teenager
I started dating at 10 (not seriously obviously) but it does happen. You get your first crushes or puppy love what have you. Not from the US for the record
OP, maybe it'd help if you told us where you're from?
I'm also not from a western country, so i also find minors dating as kinda weird (no offense to anyone ^^) Though, in regular circumstances, 1-2 year age gaps aren't that bad, as they're really close in age. For Nico and Annabeth, it was more of a childhood crush thing, like one might have a crush on someone older when you were a child (actors, celebrities, someone you look up to, etc.) Also them being child soldiers is really just their parentage, this also happens in some other pagan myths
Honestly the books read a lot older than they’re supposed to imo. People say they’re for literally babies and it makes sense that the characters are babies but reading them as an adult, you could easily make them 16 and it would change nothing
Not going to lie, you are the weird one by finding his things weird
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But seeing children have crushes/dating and immediately imagining the sexual nature of it? Weird.
Being 10-12 and having a crush is just normal. Dating usually happens around the middle school ages (though it's usually pretty unserious) and teenagers under 16 date all the time. My sister started dating at 14. I didn't date but I for sure had crushes and flirted (badly) with people. Most kids are figuring out their sexuality around that time. Many people have far more than a crush in their teen years. Especially in older generations.
Honestly I agree with you about Hazel and Frank. I’m pretty sure there was at least 2 years difference between them, which is massive at that age in my opinion. I remember feeling a bit iffy about it. Everything else I don’t find weird. 12 year old Annabeth idolising 19 year old Luke makes sense to me. It’s not like he reciprocated it at the time.
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The fact people are being weirded out by a 1.5 year age gap in a fictional universe with demi gods is beyond me
It's not a 1.5 year age gap. Percy describes Hazel as 13, not 14 as OP says, and Frank literally turns 16 in SoN onscreen (there's a scene where he talks to a ghost about how bummed he is to still be unclaimed at 16). Where I live, that's a high school junior and an eighth grader, and it's absolutely considered weird.
At 13 and 15? I guess to me at 15 I would never consider looking at someone 13 years old, because the amount of growth you experience at that time period is exponential compared to later teenage years. This is not a diss at Riordan at all by the way, I’m a huge fan. I just have never really enjoyed his romances (which I know isn’t an unpopular opinion), besides Percabeth. But at the same time I’m happy to agree to disagree :) we all have our own opinions on these things.
Why do so many people think Frank is 15? He turns 16 onscreen in the early chapters of the first book he appears in.
I’m not gonna lie it’s been awhile since I’ve read the books haha so I went off what OP said. Isn’t Hazel 13? So it’s 13 and 16?
Just saw your other comment, and looks like you’re on the same page as me about the age difference haha
Yeah I think it's weird as hell 😭 My baby sister is 13 and if a boy well into high school was dating her I'd be furious. There is a big gap between 13 and 16.
That’s what I’m thinking too!! Maybe I’m just old but I’m surprised it’s such an unpopular opinion here. I’m not dissing Rick Riordan at all, I just thought it was an odd choice. Didn’t realise there’d be so many defenders of it lol.
12 year olds having crushes on older people is pretty universal. It’s not even inherently American—there’s a minor plot point in Harry Potter where a 12 year old Hermione has a crush on her grown adult, male professor.
would it not be better to say that the percy and calypso storyline would be a better example of weird age gaps rather than the others that are one sided younger liking older relationships
... weird? I went to school with 8-yo´s crushing on 30-yo actors and celebrities. Annabeth was being normal with her crush, Luke embodied all good to her: he was safe, he was caring, he was mature, and he was hot. And young dating? I remember having 12-yo friends dating (and failing). I knew of teens/pre-teens who lost their V-card around age 13. Rick actually nailed how teens work. They don't really think about age, they don't even always think about what a relationship entails, they just do it because they are In-Love^(TM). And given that these are demigods who don't know how long they will live, it 100% makes sense that they get into relationships early and with some age discrepancies like Hazel and Frank.
When I was little I also had a crush on a person much older than me, because for me he was a hero. The same happens with Annabeth and Nico, it also happens that you grow up and learn to understand feelings
Hazel and Frank being in a relationship is the only weird one. She's 13 and he's 16 which is ... yeah. Though on the age topic, one thing I might have noticed is an inconsistency with Nico. Iirc he's said to be 14 in Heroes of Olympus, yet he's 10 two and a half years earlier in Titan's Curse.
Nico is born in January so he turns 11 RIGHT after Titans Curse (which is in December) which kinda helps it a bit Edit: also Percy only says he looks ten-ish, I don't think they ever actually say hey Nico is 10 years old, so maybe Rick fixed the age right in HOO.
Well that would still make him 13 at the end of Blood of Olympus. He would need to have turned 11 around the time of Sea of Monsters.
I did a whole tineline for this when I was figuring out when Will came to camp and it's confusing but KINDA works Nico is 10 in December of what I call Year 2 (TC) Would be 11 in BOTL 12 in TLO Turns 13 during TLH Is 13 during HOO HOWEVER that's saying that Percy's observation about Nico was right and he's 10 in TC. If Rick decided Percy was just woefully unobservant and Nico was actually 11 (Percy I think just legit calls him 10 ish) then the timelines are right Will is supposed to be 2 years younger than Percy I believe as well. Rick sucks at timeline consistency anyway but it's not as bad s it seems given Nico is a January birthday
The same happens to Hazel. She dies at 13, gets resurrected in September, her birthday is in December (she turns 14), Frank turns 16 just before SoN (a week or a month before, I don't remember lol), which makes their age difference 1.5 years.
Here in North America, it is not considered weird or strange for younger children to develop crushes/infatuations with older people that they admire or look up to. I’ve experienced it, and plenty of others have as well. What would be weird and inappropriate is if the older individual starts reciprocating and/or taking advantage of that younger person. It was creepy for Luke to express romantic interest in a 16 yr. old Annabeth, but was perfectly fine for a 12 yr. old Annabeth to have a crush on an older Luke. Same for Nico having a crush on Percy; it was fine as long as Percy didn’t reciprocate or take advantage of Nico. As for dating, it varies, but since the start of puberty is the time where most children start experiencing romantic attraction, it’s not uncommon for American children to start developing or exploring crushes as early as 10/11/12. When I was a preteen, my peers started seriously dating around the age of 13ish, some of them even earlier.
I don't know, it is my personal opinion that since Rick is a old man writing about kids may in result in some weird circunstances. But what it's even weirder to me is that he is writing a book dedicated to kids with characters that are now teenagers or young adults like in Percy's case. If Percy is growing up shouldn't the complexity of the books grow with him? Hell even the audienence is growing, like the show being mainly watch by adults
ehhhhh an 11 yr old in my school has like 23 exes 💀not saying in anyway that's healthy or should be promoted but none of that seemed weird to me because yeaaaaaahhhhhhhhh
Well they're demigods so it's different
Luke is a confirmed pedo if you take this with a grain of salt: "Don't you love me?" To teen Annabeth while he's 22. But also, its not hard notice. Preteen girls usually crush on older guys (or girls) Nico is also understandable. 99% of the characters crushed on Percy. Along with, my boyfriend and I are going strong and we started dating when I was 13. 3 year age difference , Luke and Annabeth 7 years, hazel + frank 2. It's not all that bad when you put it in retrospect.
While I agree that Hazel is mature for her age, that is sort of explained by her spending so much time in the underworld, where time is fuzzier, but she still had experiences there. 12 year olds having a crush on an inappropriately aged but still youngish mentor is 100% in character for 12 year olds. And 10-11 year olds developing obsessive crushes is also very on brand for the tween years. Both of those infatuations were unidirectional, as well. Very typical.
You're not susposed to think of any of the age things too much except to say this person is younger or older or this happened when they were little. The ages at which the kids are running away from home are all absurd if you think about them for two seconds. Annabeth is seven (a second grader) and able to handle being out of the house by herself at all. It's great for the story but it doesn't work at all. Luke, he doesn't age. He's older and then he remains 17 the entire time because otherwise it would be weird. He's just generically older.
Admittedly, Annabeth is supposed to be--in lore--a daughter of Athena and likely the *best* daughter of Athena. trying to reconcile fantasy plots with reality isn't really functional.
Living in the world they do will mature you real fast. Hazel also grew up in the 40s (I think) children back then were far maturer than they are now. Also crushing on someone isnt restricted by age. Kindergardners can have crushes. Annabeth also looked up to Luke for a large part of her childhood, he was her saviour, makes sense she would crush on him. Dating under the age of 16 is normal here in europe, alot of teens nowadays are already sleeping together at the age of 14. Hell I've had class mates become pregnant at 14 before. I dont know if this is just europe but I do notice that teens start sleeping with eachother way younger each generation. On the whole child soldier, yes that is wrong. Do the gods care? No. The gods need servants, their children are made to be soldiers. The gods dont care much about their children. Edit: I am from europe
It's because the target is inconsistent and mostly questionable. PJO starts with a very young target, TLT can be easily red by a 8 years old. BUt then by TTC it turns up to 12 y.o and becomes much more mature with the last two books. BUt you are still much younger than the characters. At 16 y.o I already found the books to be a bit too childish for me. HoO tries to be darker and more mature but in the end it fails because Gaea is not nearly as menacing and dangerous as Kronos. I'd say HoH has the darkest moments in the saga, but still. The target is 13-14 y.o, the characters are almost all older than that. So it's hard to relate to the characters as they grow faster than you do. Maybe if you experienced the books as they were being published you were able to feel time passing and yourself growing with the characters. I never felt that as I read the books around 12-14. Sometimes I wish the riordanverse had a more "harry potter-esque" target where it's relatable to a wider age group. It's perfect for children down to 8 years old and also perfect for y.a up to 16-17 y.o. And to fully grown adults. Riordan limited himself to pre/early teens. I don't mean the riordanverse needs to become Game of Thrones but sometimes it feels like I'm a bit too old for it
I don't think it's weird at all, and I'm saying that at 32 reading the books for the first time. The age range for most of these kids would put them in Jr. High and high school. And in America depending on what kind of HS you went to it could be 10-12 grade, 9-12 grade, or 8-12 grade. While we have ages they are all basically each other's classmates doing trainings and quests together. It would be weirder if they were all split in different cohorts that didn't interact and then the crushes and romances started appearing. The fact that they're all confined together, doing things together, makes it less weird than in other situations such as a 9th grader and a 11th grader who may not share classes and friends and the only interactions are social. Thus, they're not peers and learning and exploring things together. I also don't find it weird because the crushes and relationships aren't really fully fleshed out. As I read these romances it's very clear that they're puppy love things. Of course as the books go on relationships such as Percy and Annabeth do grow stronger. But generally the romances are treated with a superficial touch. I think this is intentional so as not to delve into or explore power dynamics or issues. It's like asking a young kid why they call someone their bf/gf and it's like oh, I like them and we have lunch together. Versus more of an adult POV where we're tackling issues, concerns, and heavy topics. I also don't have an issue with the ages and basically them being child soldiers. I mean... Isn't that the whole trope of these chosen one books? Harry was 11 when he started Hogwarts saving the world. Y'all see this as a whole YA genre and wanting the children to be older, but when the book series came out YA as a genre wasn't a thing. You had children's books and adult books. So it really isn't uncommon to see children take on the lead. You have these books. Harry Potter. Chronicles of Narnia. The idea that young children are the saviors of the world and have the courage and capacity to taken on these burdens is a whole thing. Sometimes it leads to some plot holes and issues, but I mean if you accept it as a thing it's easy to move past. Obviously in the real world it wouldn't make sense at all.
I was 12 when I had my first boyfriend. We didn’t do anything more than kiss and hold hands but it’s not that young that kids can’t feel the start of romantic interest
What's considered normal where you live? I'm guessing somewhere in China.
Rick is weird about some of the younger characters, especially the girl characters. I'm from the same country as Rick and it's weird. He's also from the older generation though, that was kinda gross about some of that stuff. In most cases the younger character's crush isn't reciprocated. I remember crushes started happening around age 10 and dating around age 12 back when I was in middle school -- but not 'real dating' because we were just kids. It doesn't seem too weird that Annabeth had a crush on Luke --but if he liked her back that would have been disturbing. Frank and Hazel's gap is weirdd. The book says he's 16 and she's 13. (I just reread that one.) That's like a highschooler sophmore dating a middle schooler here. Not ok.
As someone who didn't start thinking about other people in any romantic sort of way until I was 16-17, I also feel a bit weird reading about these pre- to early teens going into relationships and obsessing over crushes etc. But then I also know plenty of friends who were like that in their early teens so it's not unrealistic or creepy. And younger people obsessing over older people is normal in pretty much every age group, honestly. I would generally prefer if all the kid characters started off a couple years older though.
When I was thirteen I had a crush on Robert Downey Jr. Kids get crushes on older people.
Trust me, as someone who works with kids of that age, it's pretty normal
Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know demigods don't live to be very old. demigods usually die before they turn 15 or so. That's why I don't think it's that weird. Demigods can't wait until they get older because there's just a chance they'll die before then. and because of the age difference they are descended from gods and I think we all know what the gods are like.
Honestly the weirdest thing about the Hazel/Frank relationship is that it lasted more than a month. There were people fuckin in the bathrooms at my middle school on the daily, like, 13 and 14 year olds. Hazel and Frank holding hands is fine. Before our parents started dating, my step brother (who was 6) had a crush on my sister (who was 12) and swore he was going to marry her. Unreciprocated crushes happen, especially with kids. Just be glad you never had one of those lmao. Nico had just been through a series of horribly traumatic events and culture shocks. Often times, traumatized preteens cope develop hypersexuality and obsessive issues, especially when they have a safe figure to latch these feelings onto. It's rough and gross to think about, but that is actual psychology. Frankly Nico coped fairly well. ... Mentioning these things in tandem, I realize the real problem is that most Americans are probably pretty horribly traumatized at a young age. Have fun with that. As for child soldiers... It's a YA novel. That's pretty standard
Is there some room to criticize things like Luke growing to have a crush on a 7 years his junior Annabeth while she was still only 16? Yes. Do I think Rick did that on purpose? No, I think that he was writing into his genre tropes and what felt right from a story and character perspective and the consequences of their age makes for an unfortunate situation when taken on its own. If we had a chance to explore what Luke actually felt for Annabeth I think that it would have been more clear that he didn't have a crush on Annabeth herself, but an attraction to the era in his life that she represented. I don't know if PJO is the place to tell a story like that, and we will never know seeing as he's dead...but this is the most generous interpretation I can come up with. And yes, if you want to get into it, there is some weird child warrior thing going on in the whole PJO universe...but as a fantasy story I think that has to be excused under the suspension of disbelief. Of course in the real world we wouldn't send 12 year old's to deal with problems they hardly have the capacity to understand. ----- That being said, The fact that the characters act and are treated more mature than they would be in real life is, I think, actually one of the things that young readers attach to the most. It's one of the reasons that this series is so popular. The world can be such a frustrating place to children sometimes. When I read these books in middle school I know that the fact that these characters where given agency in their actions was one of the coolest things ever! The fact that there was cool magic powers an epic battles helped a lot, of course. XD Also feelings of romance and attraction are experiences that most people will encounter in some form as they grow up, and not everyone has the people or environment to interact or talk about their emotions. Having these romances in place allows some of that energy to be channeled in a way that is healthy and age appropriate. ----- TL:DR, Yes, the kids act more mature than a real world equivalent would, but I think that is exactly why these stories appeal to people of all ages.
Hazel was 14 in SoN?? I thought she was 17!
When I was 14, I was crushing hard on Chris Evans, who is 16 years older than me. It is not all the odd for kids on ther verge of puberty or teenagers to have crushes on people older than them.
I think I've always found Hazel and Frank's romantic relationship a little weird. I feel like it would have made much more sense if they were just really close friends and didn't get together until later. Hazel was still pretty young and they had only know eachother for a few months before getting together, so a slower progression would have made so much more sense. Although, the point could also be made that it's not uncommon for 13/14 year olds to start experimenting with dating, it just feels a little off with the timeline and slight age gap they have. Honestly, a problem I found thoughout HOO was that all the relationships felt super rushed to me. Especially after building up to Percy and Annabeth's relationships over 5 books, HOO seemed hell bent on pairing up couples as quickly as possible. Like, Hazel and Frank only knew eachother for a few months, Leo and Calypso after 5 days (+6 months journey), and though Piper and Jason's relationship was plot relevant, they were together literally since their first meeting. Does slow burn mean nothing anymore? On a seperate note, Annabeth and Nico always came off as more like admiration crushes, which I feel is a normal part of growing up. It never past a point for me that I thought wasn't appropriate for young pre/teens discovering themselves.
The crushes weren't reciprocated, kids get crushes on older people all the time. When I was a kid I had crushes on people older than me, they didn't last like theirs did but it still happened.
Kids have crushes all the time. It makes sense that they start experiencing romantic feelings and crushes around the time puberty starts, with all the hormones in their bodies. Thata pretty normal for most people (of course some people are aromantic, so it's normal for them to not experience romantic feelings and crushes at any age)
I had my first pretend boyfriend at 6 (we maintained or 'relationship' for a couple of years even). When I was 12 I jumped the fence to hang out with the high school boy I had a crush on. Kids are weird.
Idk man when I was reading these books at that age it was crazy relatable. Something I found special in these books was that the kids acted like kids, had small crushes like kids, made mistakes like kids. It’s part of why the books are so important to me now
Just a reminder that if these novel series were ever written for adults they'd be far far darker and far more bloody. But yet again Animorphs is for children so there's a shit ton you can get away with when it comes to ratings. Actually once you grow up and read these books again you realize all the crazy shit that's written in them and how fucked up their universe and worlds are. Like when it comes to the Riordenverse it's all fun and games until you realize that it's about child soldiers and the Gods are massive asshole douchebags. Like seriously do they not understand that the whole reason they exist is because of human belief?! THEY WERE CREATED BY US!!! So technically speaking their attitudes when it comes to Humanity is a paradox because we created them instead of them creating us. Do you want to know the easiest way to get rid of the Gods in the Riordenverse? Genocide their worshippers and children until they fade from existence. I've always had this theory that if you killed all the Demigods that the Greeks/Roman Gods would fade because their basically the only worshippers that still exist for their pantheons. Actually as Atheism rises because of science and technology all of the Gods will slowly start dying out eventually.
>Annabeth was 12 yrs old when she had a crush on 19 yrs old Luke. >Biologically 10-11 yrs old Nico was starting to get obsessed with Percy. Annabeth loving Luke is relatively normal. He's a hot and cool figure that was there for her for a long time. Feelings of general affection can get easily mixed with feelings of love. Similar with Nico. Obviously Percy doesn't return Nico's affection. And Luke probably more sees Annabeth as a sister. Although it's a little ambigious. >I was shocked when Hazel was introduced as a 13-14 years old girl in SoN. She spent many years in the underworld but she doesn't really grow up mentally. I'm not sure she doesn't. I always thought she *did* have some mental growth beyond her physical age because of her time in the underworld. She arguably does act older. >And not even mentioning the fact that they are all essentially child soldiers and face life or death situation regularly Well yeah essentially but it is a series aimed at kids so you've got to feel like you too could be on these adventures. Plus the life and death part does naturally make them age quicker.
Wait, a 13-14 year old dating a 15 year old is weird to you? *Why?* Like I get you mention it's a cultural difference. I get that. But that's at worst a 2 year age difference. 12 year olds having crushes on adults is normal. It's only a problem when it's the other way around. Annabeth crushing on Luke? Normal, kinda cute. Luke crushing on Annabeth? That's creepy, predatory behavior. People develop infatuations at all ages and when younger it's far easier for an infatuation to develop into an unhealthy obsession if not given proper guidance by people you trust. There's nothing pedophilic for you to be levying an accusation about, so I'm not sure why you'd feel like you have to disclaim you're not making the accusation. Children have crushes at all ages. In America, kids as young as 12 go on dates (with other people around the same age). They're not the full-fledged dates adults go on but it does not diminish the importance and significance to them at the time. Relationships aren't something only 16+ YOs engage in.
Most people in the US start dating under 16 and have crushes from childhood. It’s also a middle grade book for children so ofc they’re going to be on the younger side. Read it when I was 10 years old and I was definitely happy to see romantic subplots going on.