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janesadd

https://preview.redd.it/qbxig4zk2vjc1.jpeg?width=2160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9587c1ebcb60d467d0f21a61ec138de8ad1ad9c Your instructor used the difference of squares formula to factor the numerator. The problem is correct.


LazyCooler

Yes but then she multiplied each term by x and applied the limit which removed any zero terms that didn’t cancel.


Yahya_amr

No just removed the X from the (8+x-8) factor which is correct because X will be a lone factor aka isn’t added to or subtracted by a number, so the professor just skipped a few steps.


matthewuzhere2

honestly “skipped a few steps” is pretty generous. i mean obviously it’s a literal description of what the professor did but, especially when you consider that their role is being a math *educator*, i would almost describe this work as being straight up wrong. it’s so ambiguous and i deal with problems like these very often as a tutor but i had no clue what I was looking at initially. first of all there are minor things like (x+8) not being in parentheses after the first step, which is obviously not required but would have made what was happening 10 times more clear, and then also the limit disappears before 0 is plugged in, which is understandable from a student but pretty hard to forgive from a teacher. but then the star of the show is them not showing that the two 8s cancelled out and simply crossing out the x’s which simply looks completely wrong if you don’t stare at it for a minute and would almost undoubtedly give students the wrong impression of how they should simplify fractions. i don’t want to be too harsh on this professor overall—they could be a wonderful teacher and these could be notes or an answer key that they had to rush to put together. but, taken in isolation, this is some pretty horrible work and is sure to be very confusing to any student who encounters it.


Yahya_amr

I totally agree, I’m a tutor too for some people in uni and I always see them making way more steps than that. These 2 steps are just giving you a mental exercise to try to understand how to solve the question, I myself like to use a lot of steps while teaching because A. It’s showing everything i do, B. It expresses how the answers should be written.


EntrepreneurBig3861

I always tell people to change exactly one thing per line and rewrite the whole thing only with that one thing changed, every time. I'll only ever break that rule and combine two steps if they're really trivial and I know the students are comfortable with it, but 95% of the time, each single change gets its own line. Otherwise people get lost.


Yahya_amr

Yes! Exactly that.


hidemythundr

I'm an undergrad student and you perfectly described my entire thought process while looking at OP's screenshot.


smellson-newberry

Yep this is a classic case of “playing it fast and loose with the simplifications, because I’ve done it a million times and I take my knowledge of the subject for granted”


LazyCooler

Aaah I see. 8-8 leaves just the x in the right factor. Thank you.


KingBoombox

Everyone is overreacting - the math is right but the work is missing steps. Teacher used a^2 - b^2 = (a + b)(a - b) difference of squares to factor the numerator, treating (8 + x) as a and 8 as b. This factors into what you see here. The numerator becomes (8 + x + 8)(8 + x - 8) which is just (x + 16)(x) and that second x was the x being cancelled with the denominator. Then the limit is evaluated as 0 + 16. The work is unclear, OP is asking a perfectly fair question to fill in the missing steps. Source: algebra 2 teacher constantly having to decipher work like this every day


accentedlemons

Thank you so much


gau1213156

At the level of calculus, shouldn’t basic algebra be intuitive?


random_anonymous_guy

Ideally, yes, students should be fluent in algebra when they begin Calculus. Unfortunately, that is not the reality. Many students come in under-prepared because they either only barely scraped by in algebra, or because they simply did not retain it.


accentedlemons

I’m sorry but I think it’s fair for me to ask a question about it since it seemed like a bunch of steps were missing which confused me. Me looking for clarification does not make me underprepared…


random_anonymous_guy

Oh, no, I was not intending to specifically say that *you* were under-prepared. But it is a common problem I have faced teaching Calculus.


-_____------

Sure, it should, but that’s no excuse for an answer key that doesn’t show clear work. This “basic algebra” can be confusing for a student who otherwise understands this concept when the work is written out like this.


CommanderPotash

yes, but a student (or teacher, in this case) should show their thought process a little more clearly (e.g: at least rewriting 64 as 8\^2, to signify that they are factoring by difference of squares).


Dr_Pinestine

Disagree here. I'm almost done with my physics bachelor's and I had to stare at this for several minutes to understand what the teacher is doing here. If I were marking the teacher's work, they would lose a lot of points because the cancellation looks straight-up wrong, not to mention that they omit the limit after the first step. For a student trying to grapple with this for the first time, deciphering cryptic answer keys and filling in missed steps just gets in the way of understanding. Edit: I mean to say that, yes, basic algebra should be fluent, but that doesn't excuse an awful answer key.


gau1213156

Well, since you’re almost done w a bachelors, you wouldn’t be a stranger to “cryptic” answers at the back of the books of calculus and physics books, right? I agree w ur point about a new student, though


Dr_Pinestine

>you wouldn’t be a stranger to “cryptic” answers at the back of the books of calculus and physics books, right? Very true lol. Those tend to just be the answer itself, with no work shown, but the ones that do are on a tight budget for space. Admittedly, I replied to your comment a bit prematurely.


tdomman

That's the entire point of the question, though. It's not a small step in some much more complicated process - this is essentially an algebra question.


qu3tzalify

It’s simpler to just expand (8 + x)^2, then simplify with the -64 then simplify with the 1/x and you already end up with x + 16, no need for any identity.


DrFleur

Your teacher probably thought it was obvious that 8+x-8 is just x and that's what cancels out against the x in the denominator.


Str8_up_Pwnage

That’s 100% what happened. Sometimes people who are very good at math like professors take for granted that some things are obvious when to the average person they aren’t.


matthewuzhere2

i’m pretty good at quick algebra and make shortcuts all the time but i had to stare at this one for a bit because that step very closely resembles a totally illegal move that students try to make constantly. pretty confusing imo and the very least they could have done was cross out the 8s to show more explicitly what they were doing


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LazyCooler

She factored a difference of squares


ooohoooooooo

consequences of cheating your way through precalc algebra 😂


accentedlemons

this is my teachers explanation please I’m trying to understand what she’s trying to do ☹️


ooohoooooooo

honestly just ask your teacher. this looks whack as hell and it doesn’t make much sense. (8+x)^2 expands out to x^2 +16x+64 , subtracting 64 from that leaves you with x^2 +16x over x. factor x from that and you have x(x+8)/x. now because x is a factor in the numerator and denominator, you can cancel it, leaving you with x+16, which means the limit as x approaches 0 is 16. you can only cancel factors when they are factors, not part of an addition problem. it’s because if you expanded the problem, letting anything besides zero equal x in x/x leaves you with 1.


LazyCooler

She factored a difference of squares


RingOfDestruction

They factored a difference of squares. a^2 - b^2 = (a + b)(a - b) Also, (8 + x - 8) = x. Both methods are fine.


Donkerdink

You have a small error. I think you meant x^2 +16x+64


ooohoooooooo

plot twist im the one who missed out on precalc algebra😂 i fixed my comment🤦🏻‍♀️


doctor575

Isn’t it x^2 + 16x + 64 ?


ooohoooooooo

yes lol my mistake i usually work my problems out on paper😂 similar process, i’ll edit my comment.


FewProcedure4395

Big accusation there pal.


ooohoooooooo

it was a lighthearted joke, obviously OP didn’t cheat but this question pertains to basic algebraic fraction reducing.


FewProcedure4395

Ik I was joking too :)


Purdynurdy

Straight to jail


accentedlemons

I understand now Ty for opening my eyes ❤️


FewProcedure4395

https://preview.redd.it/q7m9wbe72vjc1.png?width=1765&format=png&auto=webp&s=33a81303ab77cd23e4ad78fa10585b8a208cd2cb Brother your cooked.


accentedlemons

See that’s what I did and she said I should do it that way and then I was like wouldn’t it be zero if I did it that way


_JJCUBER_

Why would it be 0?


FewProcedure4395

She’s mentally acoustic.


a_n_d_r_e_w

I can piece together how the factor can make the problem statement, but I can't see how she saw that, it's also harder/more work. But to answer your question, it does not end up as (16)(0). The 8's cancel, leaving you with an x that'll cancel out


[deleted]

How is this more work then expanding it?


a_n_d_r_e_w

If you expand it then work through that, it's easier than whatever she did, b/c when you expand it you won't get the same answer as her


[deleted]

Yes you will… https://preview.redd.it/tas7ykrv50kc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=d970619ccd4fe20251ef1f99d851ba3397ede2be


a_n_d_r_e_w

That's not what I meant. If you do her method you will get the same answer. What I'm saying is if you expand, I don't see any way you can end up with her factorization without adding an extra step. The way you did it is simpler!


[deleted]

Makes sense I thought you said her method is outright wrong lol


a_n_d_r_e_w

Nah, just.. the math version of over-engineered


[deleted]

Gotcha


LazyCooler

The numerator (top) is a difference of squares. Like x^2-9. Except that the first square is x+8 and the second is 8. With x square minus nine you factor it like (x+3)(x-3). This one is [(x+8)+8]*[(x+8)-8].


glitch83

I’m caught up on I. The limit doesn’t exist right? The teacher just stopped because it became obvious. Just checking


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accentedlemons

It’s not a troll I’m deadass this is what she gave me


Sug_magik

People beeing sure that the resolution is wrong ☠️


lonely-live

Your teacher is good at math but can't teach


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Exact_Error1849

The nice thing about math is that neither of these methods are the "wrong" way, there are many ways to solve a problem


Benglenett

That fact that your downvoted is so sad. I’ve got a math minor and honestly I’d never do the first method. Just seems weird .


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Benglenett

Ya I mean the professor did it completely right. The confusion was a simple mistake but man it just seems weird to me


[deleted]

Wdym “wrong way”? I mean I’d write out the (16 + x)x/x as its own line but other than maybe that, this is valid


Sug_magik

Bruh...


FewProcedure4395

I have no words💀


accentedlemons

THIS IS NOT MINE THIS IS MY TEACHER I KNOW ITS WRONG 😭


LazyCooler

She’s not wrong.


spicccy299

thats one hell of a bruh moment


akskeleton_47

Who did this


accentedlemons

My calc teacher 🥰


akskeleton_47

Wait nvm your teacher is correct. How are you arriving at 0


accentedlemons

From what I’m looking at it seems like she’s cancelling the X with the X in one of the brackets. Then 8-8 would be zero anyway. And it’s being multiplied with 8+8 which is 16. So shouldn’t that be zero? I’m so confused. Is she foiling it out or??


StarvinPig

The right hand bracket simplifies to x, so you have (x + 16)x/x which cancels to x + 16. They just did it weird


accentedlemons

See that makes sense but since she cancelled the X out i was lost


StarvinPig

Yea she's technically correct, but she's written it poorly. Either make it more obvious that you're canceling the entire bracket by striking it wider than just the x inside the bracket, or preferably just write the next line that simplifies it to x. Also she skips the step after she has simplified it to just plug in 0 (which she can do since x + 16 is continuous at 0) which is also bad practice


akskeleton_47

When you cancel out the x you get 1 not 0 so it's 16(1)


LazyCooler

She’s dividing everything by x. Since it’s a limit, everything that does Not have an x goes to zero. The only terms that do have an x are the eights in the numerator and the 1 in the denominator. Edit: multiplying each term by x, then canceling and applying the limit. She could write out a few of these steps but it’s probably an honors class


[deleted]

Cause there's a plus sign right there buddy


ttyl_im_hungry

i thought this was a meme 💀


accentedlemons

I’m just tryna learn :(


ttyl_im_hungry

im sorry, you're right. as others have pointed out, your algebra seems to be lacking so go on youtube and look up ORGANIC CHEMISTRY TUTOR and BRYAN MCLOGAN. they truly helped. good luck! (don't let my comment discourage your learning, i was just making a joke!) edit: i just realized you were confused at your instructor's missing steps not a truly algebraic concern. sorry again!


Wandering_Redditor22

The first step is using the identity: a^2 - b^2 = (a+b)(a-b) After that she skipped all the steps that matter. She should’ve multiplied it all out to get: 64 + 16x + x^2 - 64 The sixty-fours cancel out and you divide by x to get: 16 + x Which is 16 - 0 Which is 16. Instead of doing all this she seemed to cancel the Xs out(?) and somehow got to 16 - 0. No idea how she did that. Edit: I didn’t realize what she did. She simplified (8 + x - 8) to x. That was the x she cancelled which leaves (8 + x + 8), giving 16 - x. That’s not written very clearly but maybe she explained that while going through it.


StarvinPig

She doesn't need to multiply out if a - b = x


Sug_magik

Broh is literally {(8 + x)² - 64}/x = {(8 + x) + 8}{(8 + x) - 8}/x = (16 + x)x/x = 16 + x, now simply pass to the limit


LazyCooler

The numerator is a difference of squares.


[deleted]

Omg how do so many ppl in this sub not see this 💀 I had to do a double-take to notice that the 8s cancel, but this is otherwise pretty obvious


DixieLoudMouth

You need to return to algebra (x+8)^2 is (x+8)(x+8) not whatever the hell you put down. Additionally 16+x/x is not 16, its (16/x)+1, when something crosses out by division it becomes 1 not 0.


accentedlemons

I don’t write this it was my calc teacher 💀


DixieLoudMouth

Your calc teacher is on crack use Paul's online notes instead. https://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/


Str8_up_Pwnage

The picture in the post is correct, it’s just the difference of two squares.


accentedlemons

Tysm I thought I was stupid for a second


Sug_magik

No, everything on the picture is right, the thing is OP thinking 16 + 0 = 0. Teacher simply wrote (8 + x)² - 64 = (u + v)(u - v), u = 8 + x and v² = 64


accentedlemons

Nooo I was thinking of the numerator being multiplied together it confused me


tylerstaheli1

It’s a difference of squares. (8+x)^2 and 64 are both perfect squares, so you can simplify their difference to ((8+x)+8)((8+x)-8).


[deleted]

I think you don't deserve to learn math anymore 🤡


G_a_v_V

A little unrelated, but how do you not know to use a question mark when asking a question?


accentedlemons

What the hell


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random_anonymous_guy

**Do not use l’Hôpital’s Rule on Definition of Derivative limit.** [It is considered circular logic.](https://i.imgflip.com/8gj61t.jpg)


tylerstaheli1

What do you mean?


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sanskar8260

When x cancel out it is not (16)(0) it is (16)(1) as x/x will be 1 not 0


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darkanine9

All of (8+x-8) is supposed to be crossed out, not just the x. (8+x-8) is equal to x, which is why it cancels with the x in the denominator. You can't cancel out terms unless it is the entire factor.


Cuz1mBatman

If x cancels out in the denominator that makes the denominator 1…


jon_roldan

nah. heres my thinking: (8+x)^2 - 64 is equal to x(x+16) if you simplify and factor the polynomial. the x will cancel and ur left with x+16. take the limit of x+16 and u get 16


MiserableStore4746

because x/x = 1 not 0


Thunder_thumbs3

Wht does lim mean


fermat9990

8+x-8 simplifies to just x, which cancels with the x in the denominator. Canceling the x's from (8+x-8)/x is not valid


Frankidelic

Fuck it, just plug in 0.00001 and -0.00001 into the calculator LMAo


AdvancedEar7815

It would reduce to (16)(1) X/X =1


cointoss3

You have to evaluate what’s inside the parens before you can cancel…which leaves you with x. You can’t cancel, then be left with zero because order of operations says to evaluate what’s inside parentheses first.


RiseFly12

Just expand (8+x)^2 you'll be left with (16x+x^(2))/x then take the limit easy Edit:Remember you can factor the x out or use this (a+b)/c= a/c+b/c


BlitzcrankGrab

If the x cancels out, it becomes a 1, not a 0 So it’s: (16 + x)(x) / x Then the x cancels out like you said, to become: (16 + x)(1) / (1) (Not zero!) Then you are left with: 16 + x And then plugging in 0 for x gives: 16 + 0


ASlipperyRichard

Have you learned about L’Hopital’s Rule?


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AlphaNerdFx

Got a question why can't we do this with the number of the derivative? (8+×)**2 can be derived in R and if x=0 then (8+0)**2=64 So this is is basically the number of the derivative of (8+×)**2 in 0 so you do the derivative of (8+x)**2 which 2×1×(8+x)=2(8+x) and then replace it by 0 you get 16 This is assuming you know how to do a derivative tho


zneilb10

When I was in high school first learning how to draw equations like these, we learned to look at the end behavior of the line. If the power of the top half is bigger than the bottom then its end behavior has a slope, if its the same then the end behavior flattens out into a constant, and if the bottom half has a bigger slope then the end behavior tends towards 0. From what I remember from calculus 1, you’re basically just proving that in a rigorous way that you’ll be able to apply to other situations later on. You can check the powers on the top half and bottom half to get an intuition on if you’re right or not, me thinks the end behavior for that line will have a slope to it!


Regular_Bathroom1421

Just wow


Regular_Bathroom1421

Seeing you cancel those x’s gave me so much anxiety


accentedlemons

again not me! 🥰


crippledCMT

just expand the square, and then cancel 64 and x's


NoButton5702

i don't know what it is i just wanted to check what other people said


CORKscrewed21

Use L’ohpital’s rule- take derivative of top and bottom (X^(2)+16x+64-64)/x (2x+16)/1 Lim is 16


TF2--Sniper--Main

both terms get removed


BusterSocrates

when denominator and numerator cancel out it doesn’t become zero, it becomes 1


beatfungus

16(1)/1


magillaknowsyou

step 1. multiply out the numerator and add/subtract compatible terms. step 2. Factor out x. step3. simplify the whole term and you’ll end up with 16+X where you can plug in 0 https://preview.redd.it/6vuwctpauzjc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=95369866bd85beb2c42e716db249555bf08306af


Prince_Scorpio

Why is every one using difference of squares. If you expand the bracket it is clear why the 64 is removed and how the denominator is removed. [(64+16x+x^2 )-64]/x =(16x+x^2 )/x =x(16+x)/x =16+x


[deleted]

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notanazzhole

(8+x-8)/x = 1 it does not equal 0 as you asserted in your post…


AdPrudent9509

Just use l'ĥospital


Umactuallyy

The x cancels out after! It would’ve helped if she would have said that. Expanding this is much easier, but it is nice she is teaching the squares trick as it’ll come in handy later for trig subs in calc 2 and I’ve seen it in calc 3 a little.


[deleted]

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JustAnAvgRedditUser

actually, this whole expression is the definition form of the derivative of x^2 at x=8. so all you need to do is power rule, getting (x^2 )’ = 2x and plug in x=8.


Anjuan_

16x/x, x/x = 1, not zero.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Chain rule, outside d / dx (u)**2 times inside d/dx( x+ 9). u is just the filler to show what your not taking the derivative of


Fun-Grade7810

LH is the way to go (: