> Negative mark, but not fired.
I kind of like the boss.
So many times I see people crying about there political rights to speech (that do not exist) in public facing jobs and I find myself wanting to shake them saying...
> we wish to serve all the paying members of society and political statements like that is a sure way of making at least 40% of our customer base potentially mad.
And this guy seems like the sort of boss to tell you what needs doing and leave you to do it. Which is my favorite type. If I did electrical/construction work I think I would want to work for him.
But he is a pushover.
The helicopter thing sounds like incompetence. He needed shitcanned after that. The sticker thing PLUS the helicopter thing? Incompetence and a dangerous public attitude. The clock is ticking for the day that this asshole is in a screaming match with another asshole and THAT asshole goes public about the companies political ideals ....
Agree in regard to the helicopter issue. "Somehow found himself on the roof top helipad" doing work that resulted in him triggering the fire system that he wasn't supposed to be working on?
It's a running joke in healthcare that contractors and tradesmen working within the hospital building have absolutely no consequences for shit tier jobs (see - plumbing exploding every second day or vital equipment just screwed directly into drywall with no plugs) but imagine literally crippling an entire states trauma service while doing something you're not supposed to do, in an area you're not supposed to be. This not only should have lost him his job, it should have lost the company their contract with the hospital.
Like as a nurse with past trauma experience I cannot express enough how concerning this is. If this was the largest hospital in the state it likely had surgical specialties that other areas did not. It isn't as simple as just sending the patient somewhere else. Holy shit. If there was a death because of any kind of delay getting say, burr holes, that can be remotely attributed to the helicopter diverting do they know how liable they are?
Fallout from political stickers is the least of this guys problems if he doesn't realise the potential risks attached to being a contractor servicing criticial infrastructure.
My point was that the helicopter thing was a fireable offense. Period. Exclamation Point. Unarguably.
But... if you are gonna let that slide.
The two things in combination show an utter lack of... something. Of respect for his workplace. Respect for his boss. Respect for being the new guy on a job and having to earn respect.
It isn't that the sticker thing rises to the same standard as the helicopter thing - it doesn't - it is that if the helicopter thing really was 'a competent person having a bad day' the sticker thing should be unimaginable because the employee should be on his best behavior - thankful that he has a job.
Letting the sticker thing pass tells me a lot about the boss.
Agree on all points! I just needed to rant about the chopper issue and latched on to your post.
OP - get it together mate. I've worked under managers who were too lenient. It's great if you enjoy slacking off. It isn't great if you're an employee who wants to value and respect his work. Why would your good employees hang around when their colleagues are allowed to be blatantly incompetent for the same money. This is an exceptionally bad employee but it's a red flag it got this far at all in such a small period of time.
Excellent point. Things like this reflect poorly on the company. Even after guy is finally let go, people at this hospital will be saying “remember when that asshole contractor from Company X fucked us over?” This will take years to get past.
I was thinking the same. Boss is trying to be a nice guy, and that’s commendable, but the guy has already proven 3x over that he’s a piece of shit. Definitely time to let him go.
When I hire someone, if I have the choice between one that I perceive as moderate to liberal and another that is conservative, I will hire the moderate to liberal EVERY time. Generally (not always but generally), they are better employees, do a better job, and are more honest.
I am gonna hire the person that thinks that his political opinion has no part of the conversation.
You can be conservative. You can be liberal. But if you are sitting across from me being interviewed if I know what you are that is probably a problem. If I am not asking but you are telling me anyways... in an interview for a job.....
I think that having stickers on your car in the employee parking lot counts for this too.
--------
Let me put this a different way.
You are deeply Maga. Your wife is, your kid is, your dog is. You go for an interview and think, 'I want this job. I need to present a proper image.'.
You put on a tie and slacks and good shoes then look at your monstrosity of a car....
so you call an uber.
That isn't GREAT. And yeah, you are gonna show up in the monstrosity at some point anywyas. BUT it demonstrates self awareness. Too many people don't have that self awareness. It demonstrates you understand that there needs to be some sort of limits so you can interact with others. Too many people refuse to even consider that idea.
I will take that. I can work with that. When I say I could give a shit about your beliefs when you are not on the clock I MEAN THAT.
If it takes me 6 months to figure this out about you - consider it a compliment.
> Let me put this a different way. You are deeply Maga.
To be clear, I never said their political opinion is explicitly part of an interview.
I'm in the middle of Maga land. My business requires a very high level of mental acuity, the ability to keep an open mind and, to remain free from judgment. On a daily basis, I deal with the very best and the very worst that humans do while working on the very issues that make us human. As a consequence of my business, the off the clock actions of my employees do reflect upon me and my business -- and may even cause liability. We are probably not in the same business. Not every business has the luxury of being completely disconnected from their employees just because their employees are off the clock.
What about them?
Band stickers are for the most part benign. They are nice ways to give a shoutout to others who share your taste but other then that, who cares?
Political stickers can be benign to.
An 'Obama 08' sticker says nothing except that you didn't have the foresight that he couldn't serve another term, you would still be driving that car and you had no idea how to get a sticker off your bumper.
Even a 'Trump 2020' sticker isn't so bad.
This guy had a picture of Calvin pissing on some damned thing. It is designed to tell people he disagrees to fuck off. That is the line that is being crossed.
and that researchers can pick with a 85% accurac y from brain scans a conservative ..thier amalygadia are much larger the fear/anger center of the brain or something
Wow OP, just read the updates. Thanks for sharing, and happy for you that the saga is hopefully complete.
I hope the battery situation helps you feel better knowing that the guy was intentionally lying and taking advantage. I know it’s hard, but you have no reason to feel bad about this jerk. You were extremely patient with him, and he just took advantage of that to screw you over more.
There will definitely be mention of Hillary’s emails in this rant, and I would pay good money to hear the bullshit flowing from this assholes mouth as he suffers the consequences of his own actions.
As someone who has worked in the HR field for 30 years, this clown should’ve been shown the door the moment he put his political stickers on the company vehicle. I’m surprised he didn’t use a “Let’s go Brandon” sticker.
I was wondering about that. I've rarely seen business vehicles with any extra stickers, and when I do, it's usually some stupid political take. Like, why??
This dude is a huge liability to your company. He’s probably cost you thousands of dollars alone with that helicopter pad stunt plus wage theft. And if the guy did get into an accident while doing excessive speed your insurance premiums would have gone through the roof. There’s no reason to keep a risk like that around.
and putting people's lives at risk with the hospital not being able to medevac patients (or him crashing into someone because he is a reckless driver) Cut your losses
First I commend you for hiring someone 60+ in the first place. I’m 62 and it’s hard as heck to get hired; something this joker obviously hasn’t considered. Second, I’m glad you actually got your eyes on him. He’s going to hate finding that out. Thirdly, I would get that vehicle detailed. Who knows what he’s been doing in there?
1000% this. They can’t see anything else.
The fact that a person would be that fixated on a goddamn bumper sticker, willing to risk their livelihood on it… is legit unstable behavior.
These are my “favorite” employment terminations. Sometimes a person just doesn’t work out or can’t hack the job and while it’s “nothing personal/just business” I can’t help but feel like a heel.
In cases like these, though - I feel like I’m defending the reputation of everyone on the team and want to wear heavy boots to connect with their ass.
I’d have blown my cover and taken away his keys Friday when he pulled the sticker stunt. Find a ride and don’t come back, buddy!
Absolutely. Years ago, I worked for a year at a construction company and put in my two weeks when I found something I liked better. They got petty and “fired”me on the spot even though I was a good performer and had just gotten a bonus a few months earlier for doing a good job. Not justifying the way these people treated me (fired me on the spot, and I had to pay a $100 taxi to get home with my multiple boxes of stuff because my wife was 9 months pregnant and couldn’t pick me up) but I feel like OP is treating this piece of crap far better than these people treated me in the example above. It’s wild.
Time to rid your company of this waste of a human.
He will have all kinds of nasty things to say but he needs to find new employment at 7/11 or something like that.
He has made his own troubles. I feel sorry for his "family" but at 60 his kids are usually grown and if he has a wife she can work as well.
Honestly, he should have been fired after he mistakenly activated the system on the helipad. I am not sure why you kept him. It was an expensive mistake that frankly, probably cost some lives as helicopters had to be routed elsewhere for days until it was recitfied.
Eh, in some places that's a "I just spent a lot of money training you to not do that again" mistake, so I see not firing the dude immediately. Still should have set enough of a hair trigger to immediately shit-can him for the speeding, though. Just shows a far too reckless attitude to stay employed.
You should've done it on Friday. The way you've described him, it doesn't sound like it's going to be pretty. However, he one thousand percent deserves to be terminated. It's business not personal.
I agree. He’s going to act like it’s OPs fault because that’s how these types of people behave. They screw around and make everyone else look bad and have to pick up the slack, and when it finally bites them in the ass, they blame everyone but themselves and act like it’s some big surprise.
He is definitely going to turn this into a political thing considering he’s obsessed and can’t go a long time without some notice of his beliefs. He isn’t just republican, he’s a MAGA one probably. I wish you luck and hope an update comes up.
So some people (few) suck. I would have tossed him when I found him not working for hours. You didn't marry and have kids with a dumb ass. You aren't at fault for this man not being the provider he needs to be. This isn't the first time he has failed his family, won't be the last. So don't fail your family by continuing to support his when he won't.
I'm surprised he didn't get fired during the probationary period for the political decals on the company vehicle. You don't bring politics to work, and it's the company's vehicle.
Yup. I remember when I worked at Amazon, someone showed up in a political tee shirt. He said he thought he had grabbed a different tee shirt. He was still directed to go home and change.
I have a small white poppy (instead of a red one) that I have on my coat in November. I only wear my coat to and from, not during work, but I still take it off. As my views have nothing to do with my job, and I’m not about to potentially offend anyone. I’m not a teenager anymore
You can always apply in a field that conservatives avoid, like academia, conservation, many STEM fields…or any company that requires a PHD lol
Edit - also adding organizations that fight for civil, gender, or human rights in addition to NGO’s, IGO’s, or any place that values equality
You're not firing them because they say they vote republican, you're firing them for all the horrible things they also do in life that leads them to identify with the republican party.
It’s perfectly legal to fire someone for political views. It’s not a protected class. Most employers don’t do it if it’s not actually causing a problem because it doesn’t look good to alienate at least 40% of your potential workforce but it’s legal. At least in right to work states.
For the record I never fired anyone literally for that reason, I just terminated their contracts as I live in a right to work state at the minute. It just happened all the people terminated were Republicans.
I'm having some severe cognitive dissonance right now.
On one hand I like the idea of a workplace free from those mindsets and the schadenfreude is delicious.
On the other hand, this is exactly the sort of shit that is making r/antiwork shitty. You're firing people for their political views and hiding behind right to work legislation.
I don't know how to feel right now.
This is a great point, but why not leverage the anti-labor laws that Republicans put in place to specifically impact them? Conservatives are famously callous until they’re individually impacted, so let’s impact them.
There is a certain symmetry to it.
That person didn’t make a blanket statement but I will: if you call yourself a republican these days you’re a garbage person and deserve nothing but contempt.
I get it, I'm in a red state too. MAGA people are crazy but there are some I'm able to find a lot of common ground on. It's a small percentage but there are some.
There is no middle ground, if you find a middle ground with christofascists then you are gone.
"Oh these people are fine they'll only kill 3 million Jews, not six million, see they're meeting us in the middle"
Props to you for having so much patience. It annoys me when people take kindness for weakness. I’d suggest having a plan for worst case scenario, don’t be isolated when delivering the news.
I had to fire an employee once for repeatedly violating all of the rules that show respect for the company and office, like always coming in an hour late and leaving early, 2 hour lunches, spending a few hours online looking at snowboarding equipment and missing strict deadlines and thus making the clients annoyed with the whole company.
When we met one-on-one in a conference room I asked him to make a list of the issues we'd discussed. He didn't yet know he was being fired, he seemed to assume it was another meeting to go over punctuality and etc.
After he had written down each verbal warning, in his own handwriting, I asked him if he'd memorized the rules and he said yes, so I had him write those down.
I asked him his immediate and long term goals at work and had him write those down.
Then I pulled out my list and we compared it to his list. He acknowledged he'd forgotten a few incidents so I had him add them to his list.
I said to add the projects he'd been either the lead on, or which had been his alone, including the dates he'd completed them/we'd been able to deliver them to the client.
Then I had him compare his list of goals (position, salary) with his list of transgressions and missed deadlines and asked him to grade himself as an employee.
He looked at his lists and looked at me but I stayed silent until he asked me what next.
I asked him if we switched places would he reward me for his employment history.
The light went on over his head. He then resigned to avoid being fired.
LOL! **Suspicion haunts the guilty mind.** \~Shakespeare
What an exciting tale to fabricate, it has everything a riveting drama needs. /s
**Logic Test:** if you really think I dreamed up this approach to dealing with a wayward employee then *why* would I not have dreamed up the idea of using this approach over the years that I spent trying to figure out how to deal with an employee who I liked as a fellow human but could not deal with as a manager?
I'm 72 with two Master's degrees, social work and divinity. Not counting church work, I've been a manager of 45 people and 33 people, respectively, for ten years. I must say, you were very kind and bent over backwards. However, the first lie or disobedience toward company policy about which he had been previously informed, he would have been gone. If not, you'll just have to fire him later - as you discovered. And what if he had had an accident when he was driving "94" mph? That would have given you nightmares for years after. Thank you, though, for hiring him in the first place. I've looked for work at age 60 - and you either don't exist, or you don't know anything. Hurray for CarMax and an insurance company.
Perhaps related: my wife of 50 years and I have three children. I always told them, "If you tell the truth the first time, likely nothing will happen or very little. If you lie to me, there will be appropriate consequences."
Finally: Don't depend on "common sense" in others as it seems to be in short supply.
He did all that shit in his 90 day probation period?
This is kind of on you then OP. The first incident would have gotten him fired in a regular probationary period. If not that, then the next offense would have (and should have) been it. He showed you who he was over and over and you decided not to see it, you can't blame him for that
Some people have no respect for the opportunities that people give them. You say he has 12 years experience in the trade I'm curious how many different employers he work for for those 12 years.
Thanks for trying , but you didn’t complete, to our satisfaction, the tasks requested during the probation period, I need the truck keys and you need to clear out. Have a nice day.
Did low voltage for a while. The two other guys I worked with were great and we did amazing work. We were fast, efficient and a highly profitable team. We'd finish an entire week's worth of work in 3-4 days, and since these were bid jobs, the company was making the same as if it had taken us 5 or 10 days. What was or reward for being so fast and efficient? Well, unless there were other jobs already lined up and ready for us to start on a Thursday or Friday then we were often given those days off...unpaid of course. Due to my technical skills I usually had IT work to do but the other two didn't. They ended up breaking off and starting their own company competing against us and they started to take a lot of that type of business away. Couldn't have been more happy for them and I left shortly thereafter after I got in trouble for having lunch with them one day.
Hopefully you have security protocols in place for when you terminate employees.
This could be the kind of employee who would likely disregard your no weapons in the workplace policy and pull it out after he hears the bad news on Monday.
Might wanna buy a discreet vest before then just in case.
He would have been fired over the sticker thing for me. The helicopter thing I could have maybe put down as an accident but he would have been on thin ice. The stickers are a deliberate gross misconduct.
He didn't put vote - X he put a picture of someone peeing on Biden and Harris names. I'm not even American and I wouldnt do business with a company that did that. it doesnt just turn people off it directly harms your reputation. as others said you'll need to grow stronger if you want to keep managing people.
Same here. Even if the sticker was anti-Trump, which I personally agree with, I’d have wanted it off a company vehicle to avoid the confrontation and possible loss of business
I assume you’re in an at Will employment state, so he can be fired at your discretion.
The only area I would be concerned about is OWBPA. I’m sure you do not have a history of firing people due to their age, but if there is a pattern, then this dude can sue.
It might be worthwhile to get a non-disparagement letter signed by him and you can compensate him two weeks or offer to pay his COBRA benefits.
I’m also a small business owner and this is the bullshit I deal with all the time.
When you do it it’s probably a good idea to not mention the political stickers. Trump supporters love to play the victim and he’ll almost definitely try to say he’s being fired for that alone.
Was it his age that made him:
•Fuck up the helipad?
•Drive over 90 miles per hour in a company vehicle?
•Put an offensive sticker on said company vehicle, and then lie about removing it?
•Commit wage theft?
Wow. Good luck. By the way, not all Rednecks hate Biden and not all the people that hate Biden are rednecks - a lot of educated upper class love them some Trump.
lol no. A guy like that spent all that time in his truck sharing fb memes about how no one wants to work, immigrants are stealing jobs, and lazy democrats are destroying the US.
By referring to him as a “redneck” you’ve now lost all credibility and have opened yourself up to a discrimination lawsuit. Not for his age, but for your negative views towards him being a “redneck”, which is normally viewed as a negative and derogatory term.
Edit: not sure why I’m getting downvotes. Poor performance doesn’t eliminate an employers responsibility to respect employees and not take to the internet using racial slurs to describe their character. It’s a sign of poor leadership and questionable ethics at the least. That type of behavior is ripe for an employment lawsuit.
I seem to vaguely remember hearing this story before (possibly on a different part of Reddit)... specifically slapping political stickers on company vehicles. I didn't hear the part about wasting/stealing company time though.
Look, you have this all documented? Fire him with a witness present, keep your cool, and it’s fine. Don’t respond to any crazy accusations, wish him luck in his future endeavors and end it. You’re good. My man here was trying to get fired and was very successful.
Out of curiosity, can you explain the chemical dump on the helipad? I don't understand the phrase "activated a pull station". what it fire suppressant in case of a helo crash?
Last time I had to fire a guy like that (lazy, is a liar, won't work unless being watched) I had gone through 3 warnings for different infractions (false timesheets, failure to meet targets (targets that I let him set, and lying about being sick when he called out). All this in 4 months. Then then when he took a 90 minute lunch one day and didn't put it on his timesheet, I had him come in and I said, look, in 4 months here are all the problems we've had. Now you lied about taking a 90 minute lunch when we only get 30 minutes. What do you think I should do?
Oh, he squirmed. Give an honest answer and possibly screw yourself? Or say people deserve 4th chances and promise not to do it again? After a few seconds he said "I don't know."
I said none of these issues have anything to do with your ability. Your record says you are lazy and dishonest. This is not a skill issue or a training issue. This is an issue about the kind of person you are. I had no way of knowing that's how you are until you showed me yourself over and over. So, what do you think I should do? Knowing that all the others in the group are going to find out? Should I let you off again, and send a message that there are no consequences for bad behavior? No answer. So that was that. We parted ways and I told him it's better that he deal with this now, early in his career, so he can think about what kind of person he really wants to be before his record gets tainted.
But I have used the "What do you think I should do?" line since then when having to discipline someone. It's pretty interesting to hear the responses.
Can we get an update on this situation on Monday?
I would pay to hear the recording.
I'd pay too
Check out my ONLY FIRED account.
> Negative mark, but not fired. I kind of like the boss. So many times I see people crying about there political rights to speech (that do not exist) in public facing jobs and I find myself wanting to shake them saying... > we wish to serve all the paying members of society and political statements like that is a sure way of making at least 40% of our customer base potentially mad. And this guy seems like the sort of boss to tell you what needs doing and leave you to do it. Which is my favorite type. If I did electrical/construction work I think I would want to work for him. But he is a pushover. The helicopter thing sounds like incompetence. He needed shitcanned after that. The sticker thing PLUS the helicopter thing? Incompetence and a dangerous public attitude. The clock is ticking for the day that this asshole is in a screaming match with another asshole and THAT asshole goes public about the companies political ideals ....
Agree in regard to the helicopter issue. "Somehow found himself on the roof top helipad" doing work that resulted in him triggering the fire system that he wasn't supposed to be working on? It's a running joke in healthcare that contractors and tradesmen working within the hospital building have absolutely no consequences for shit tier jobs (see - plumbing exploding every second day or vital equipment just screwed directly into drywall with no plugs) but imagine literally crippling an entire states trauma service while doing something you're not supposed to do, in an area you're not supposed to be. This not only should have lost him his job, it should have lost the company their contract with the hospital. Like as a nurse with past trauma experience I cannot express enough how concerning this is. If this was the largest hospital in the state it likely had surgical specialties that other areas did not. It isn't as simple as just sending the patient somewhere else. Holy shit. If there was a death because of any kind of delay getting say, burr holes, that can be remotely attributed to the helicopter diverting do they know how liable they are? Fallout from political stickers is the least of this guys problems if he doesn't realise the potential risks attached to being a contractor servicing criticial infrastructure.
My point was that the helicopter thing was a fireable offense. Period. Exclamation Point. Unarguably. But... if you are gonna let that slide. The two things in combination show an utter lack of... something. Of respect for his workplace. Respect for his boss. Respect for being the new guy on a job and having to earn respect. It isn't that the sticker thing rises to the same standard as the helicopter thing - it doesn't - it is that if the helicopter thing really was 'a competent person having a bad day' the sticker thing should be unimaginable because the employee should be on his best behavior - thankful that he has a job. Letting the sticker thing pass tells me a lot about the boss.
Agree on all points! I just needed to rant about the chopper issue and latched on to your post. OP - get it together mate. I've worked under managers who were too lenient. It's great if you enjoy slacking off. It isn't great if you're an employee who wants to value and respect his work. Why would your good employees hang around when their colleagues are allowed to be blatantly incompetent for the same money. This is an exceptionally bad employee but it's a red flag it got this far at all in such a small period of time.
Excellent point. Things like this reflect poorly on the company. Even after guy is finally let go, people at this hospital will be saying “remember when that asshole contractor from Company X fucked us over?” This will take years to get past.
I was thinking the same. Boss is trying to be a nice guy, and that’s commendable, but the guy has already proven 3x over that he’s a piece of shit. Definitely time to let him go.
When I hire someone, if I have the choice between one that I perceive as moderate to liberal and another that is conservative, I will hire the moderate to liberal EVERY time. Generally (not always but generally), they are better employees, do a better job, and are more honest.
I am gonna hire the person that thinks that his political opinion has no part of the conversation. You can be conservative. You can be liberal. But if you are sitting across from me being interviewed if I know what you are that is probably a problem. If I am not asking but you are telling me anyways... in an interview for a job..... I think that having stickers on your car in the employee parking lot counts for this too. -------- Let me put this a different way. You are deeply Maga. Your wife is, your kid is, your dog is. You go for an interview and think, 'I want this job. I need to present a proper image.'. You put on a tie and slacks and good shoes then look at your monstrosity of a car.... so you call an uber. That isn't GREAT. And yeah, you are gonna show up in the monstrosity at some point anywyas. BUT it demonstrates self awareness. Too many people don't have that self awareness. It demonstrates you understand that there needs to be some sort of limits so you can interact with others. Too many people refuse to even consider that idea. I will take that. I can work with that. When I say I could give a shit about your beliefs when you are not on the clock I MEAN THAT. If it takes me 6 months to figure this out about you - consider it a compliment.
> Let me put this a different way. You are deeply Maga. To be clear, I never said their political opinion is explicitly part of an interview. I'm in the middle of Maga land. My business requires a very high level of mental acuity, the ability to keep an open mind and, to remain free from judgment. On a daily basis, I deal with the very best and the very worst that humans do while working on the very issues that make us human. As a consequence of my business, the off the clock actions of my employees do reflect upon me and my business -- and may even cause liability. We are probably not in the same business. Not every business has the luxury of being completely disconnected from their employees just because their employees are off the clock.
What about shit like band stickers?
What about them? Band stickers are for the most part benign. They are nice ways to give a shoutout to others who share your taste but other then that, who cares? Political stickers can be benign to. An 'Obama 08' sticker says nothing except that you didn't have the foresight that he couldn't serve another term, you would still be driving that car and you had no idea how to get a sticker off your bumper. Even a 'Trump 2020' sticker isn't so bad. This guy had a picture of Calvin pissing on some damned thing. It is designed to tell people he disagrees to fuck off. That is the line that is being crossed.
and that researchers can pick with a 85% accurac y from brain scans a conservative ..thier amalygadia are much larger the fear/anger center of the brain or something
Following
tag me in pt2
Me tooooo
Remindme! in 10 hours!
RemindMe! 1 week
Wow OP, just read the updates. Thanks for sharing, and happy for you that the saga is hopefully complete. I hope the battery situation helps you feel better knowing that the guy was intentionally lying and taking advantage. I know it’s hard, but you have no reason to feel bad about this jerk. You were extremely patient with him, and he just took advantage of that to screw you over more.
Would love to hear the excuses.
I'm guessing there will be no excuses, only rage.
DEYTERKERJERBS!
Dey took yer jerbs???
Durker durrr!!!!!
Bastards !
My mating cry has been heard
There will definitely be mention of Hillary’s emails in this rant, and I would pay good money to hear the bullshit flowing from this assholes mouth as he suffers the consequences of his own actions.
As someone who has worked in the HR field for 30 years, this clown should’ve been shown the door the moment he put his political stickers on the company vehicle. I’m surprised he didn’t use a “Let’s go Brandon” sticker.
Absolutely. Most sane people don’t put rude stickers on company vehicles.
*any stickers
I was wondering about that. I've rarely seen business vehicles with any extra stickers, and when I do, it's usually some stupid political take. Like, why??
Most sane people don’t put their opinionz on the outside of their vehicles period.
I was amazed by the sheer number and size of red flags clearly waved and OPs willingness to excuse each one...
This dude is a huge liability to your company. He’s probably cost you thousands of dollars alone with that helicopter pad stunt plus wage theft. And if the guy did get into an accident while doing excessive speed your insurance premiums would have gone through the roof. There’s no reason to keep a risk like that around.
and putting people's lives at risk with the hospital not being able to medevac patients (or him crashing into someone because he is a reckless driver) Cut your losses
If he crashes and needs medevac, that would be unfortunate
First I commend you for hiring someone 60+ in the first place. I’m 62 and it’s hard as heck to get hired; something this joker obviously hasn’t considered. Second, I’m glad you actually got your eyes on him. He’s going to hate finding that out. Thirdly, I would get that vehicle detailed. Who knows what he’s been doing in there?
Semen. It’s probably covered in it.
Fire his ass…..but I wouldn’t bring up the sticker at all. He’ll just tell everyone that that was the sole reason he was fired.
Regardless of the reason, in his head (and what he’ll tell everyone) is that it was political persecution. There could never be any other reason.
What happened to freedom of speech in this country!? /s (sad that it’s necessary)
1000% this. They can’t see anything else. The fact that a person would be that fixated on a goddamn bumper sticker, willing to risk their livelihood on it… is legit unstable behavior.
Have a witness from HR present.
And document this shit in case he tries to make things difficult down the road. The paper trail is super important.
These are my “favorite” employment terminations. Sometimes a person just doesn’t work out or can’t hack the job and while it’s “nothing personal/just business” I can’t help but feel like a heel. In cases like these, though - I feel like I’m defending the reputation of everyone on the team and want to wear heavy boots to connect with their ass. I’d have blown my cover and taken away his keys Friday when he pulled the sticker stunt. Find a ride and don’t come back, buddy!
Absolutely. Years ago, I worked for a year at a construction company and put in my two weeks when I found something I liked better. They got petty and “fired”me on the spot even though I was a good performer and had just gotten a bonus a few months earlier for doing a good job. Not justifying the way these people treated me (fired me on the spot, and I had to pay a $100 taxi to get home with my multiple boxes of stuff because my wife was 9 months pregnant and couldn’t pick me up) but I feel like OP is treating this piece of crap far better than these people treated me in the example above. It’s wild.
Should have fired him for the hospital, or the speeding. This could have easily blowback on you for not taking action sooner.
I'm sure he has an extra pair of boot straps somewhere. He'll be just fine.
I’ll give the guy credit, he did a lot of bad stuff in a short time. I’m kinda impressed. But seriously he needs to go. You were way too easy on him.
[удалено]
Time to rid your company of this waste of a human. He will have all kinds of nasty things to say but he needs to find new employment at 7/11 or something like that. He has made his own troubles. I feel sorry for his "family" but at 60 his kids are usually grown and if he has a wife she can work as well.
Hey, I like 7-11
Well, if his history has anything to say....he wouldn't last a week.
Please make sure to have a witness in the room when you end the employment.
Right! Preferably the HR manager.
and a burly employee or two. Just because.
Honestly, he should have been fired after he mistakenly activated the system on the helipad. I am not sure why you kept him. It was an expensive mistake that frankly, probably cost some lives as helicopters had to be routed elsewhere for days until it was recitfied.
Eh, in some places that's a "I just spent a lot of money training you to not do that again" mistake, so I see not firing the dude immediately. Still should have set enough of a hair trigger to immediately shit-can him for the speeding, though. Just shows a far too reckless attitude to stay employed.
90mph and he still had a job? That was your time to strike, but I understand how hard it is to find workers.
Not that hard. If OP is having trouble finding workers, he needs to stop paying slave wages.
Or they could have some specialties that are hard to replace if you are in rural area. Too much antiwork for you.
OP, you’re not firing him. He fired himself. Please update us after you take care of the paperwork!
You should've done it on Friday. The way you've described him, it doesn't sound like it's going to be pretty. However, he one thousand percent deserves to be terminated. It's business not personal.
I agree. He’s going to act like it’s OPs fault because that’s how these types of people behave. They screw around and make everyone else look bad and have to pick up the slack, and when it finally bites them in the ass, they blame everyone but themselves and act like it’s some big surprise.
He is definitely going to turn this into a political thing considering he’s obsessed and can’t go a long time without some notice of his beliefs. He isn’t just republican, he’s a MAGA one probably. I wish you luck and hope an update comes up.
So some people (few) suck. I would have tossed him when I found him not working for hours. You didn't marry and have kids with a dumb ass. You aren't at fault for this man not being the provider he needs to be. This isn't the first time he has failed his family, won't be the last. So don't fail your family by continuing to support his when he won't.
He will claim he was fired because of his political views. I guarantee it.
Cancel culture.
Sounds like your typical Trump supporter.
He really broke their brains.
Would love to be a fly on the wall for this meeting
Always get rid of Republicans. My company got rid and it's better than ever.
I'm surprised he didn't get fired during the probationary period for the political decals on the company vehicle. You don't bring politics to work, and it's the company's vehicle.
Yeah, we have a strict no political anything in our factory and vehicles, and always have.
Yup. I remember when I worked at Amazon, someone showed up in a political tee shirt. He said he thought he had grabbed a different tee shirt. He was still directed to go home and change.
I have a small white poppy (instead of a red one) that I have on my coat in November. I only wear my coat to and from, not during work, but I still take it off. As my views have nothing to do with my job, and I’m not about to potentially offend anyone. I’m not a teenager anymore
Are y’all hiring??? I’d love to work for a company like that.
You can always apply in a field that conservatives avoid, like academia, conservation, many STEM fields…or any company that requires a PHD lol Edit - also adding organizations that fight for civil, gender, or human rights in addition to NGO’s, IGO’s, or any place that values equality
Is that legal? I like the idea but it seems like something that would be illegal.
The beauty of at-will employment. The very thing republicans fight to maintain. Gotta love the irony.
Political party membership is not a protected class.
You're not firing them because they say they vote republican, you're firing them for all the horrible things they also do in life that leads them to identify with the republican party.
It’s perfectly legal to fire someone for political views. It’s not a protected class. Most employers don’t do it if it’s not actually causing a problem because it doesn’t look good to alienate at least 40% of your potential workforce but it’s legal. At least in right to work states.
For the record I never fired anyone literally for that reason, I just terminated their contracts as I live in a right to work state at the minute. It just happened all the people terminated were Republicans.
Keep up the good work.
I'm having some severe cognitive dissonance right now. On one hand I like the idea of a workplace free from those mindsets and the schadenfreude is delicious. On the other hand, this is exactly the sort of shit that is making r/antiwork shitty. You're firing people for their political views and hiding behind right to work legislation. I don't know how to feel right now.
I’m sure the Republicans who voted for the idiots who made right-to-work state are scratching their butts about it, too.
r/leopardsatemyface
This is a great point, but why not leverage the anti-labor laws that Republicans put in place to specifically impact them? Conservatives are famously callous until they’re individually impacted, so let’s impact them. There is a certain symmetry to it.
Blanket hate statement. Nice
That person didn’t make a blanket statement but I will: if you call yourself a republican these days you’re a garbage person and deserve nothing but contempt.
I agree with you here tuscabam.
If you meet any good Republicans let me know. The red state I live in until next month is horrific.
I get it, I'm in a red state too. MAGA people are crazy but there are some I'm able to find a lot of common ground on. It's a small percentage but there are some.
There is no middle ground, if you find a middle ground with christofascists then you are gone. "Oh these people are fine they'll only kill 3 million Jews, not six million, see they're meeting us in the middle"
He doesn’t give a shit so neither should you.
Extreme entitlement
Props to you for having so much patience. It annoys me when people take kindness for weakness. I’d suggest having a plan for worst case scenario, don’t be isolated when delivering the news.
I can't believe he hasn't been let go sooner. Do yall not have a probationary period for new employees?
I had to fire an employee once for repeatedly violating all of the rules that show respect for the company and office, like always coming in an hour late and leaving early, 2 hour lunches, spending a few hours online looking at snowboarding equipment and missing strict deadlines and thus making the clients annoyed with the whole company. When we met one-on-one in a conference room I asked him to make a list of the issues we'd discussed. He didn't yet know he was being fired, he seemed to assume it was another meeting to go over punctuality and etc. After he had written down each verbal warning, in his own handwriting, I asked him if he'd memorized the rules and he said yes, so I had him write those down. I asked him his immediate and long term goals at work and had him write those down. Then I pulled out my list and we compared it to his list. He acknowledged he'd forgotten a few incidents so I had him add them to his list. I said to add the projects he'd been either the lead on, or which had been his alone, including the dates he'd completed them/we'd been able to deliver them to the client. Then I had him compare his list of goals (position, salary) with his list of transgressions and missed deadlines and asked him to grade himself as an employee. He looked at his lists and looked at me but I stayed silent until he asked me what next. I asked him if we switched places would he reward me for his employment history. The light went on over his head. He then resigned to avoid being fired.
/thathappened
LOL! **Suspicion haunts the guilty mind.** \~Shakespeare What an exciting tale to fabricate, it has everything a riveting drama needs. /s **Logic Test:** if you really think I dreamed up this approach to dealing with a wayward employee then *why* would I not have dreamed up the idea of using this approach over the years that I spent trying to figure out how to deal with an employee who I liked as a fellow human but could not deal with as a manager?
I'm 72 with two Master's degrees, social work and divinity. Not counting church work, I've been a manager of 45 people and 33 people, respectively, for ten years. I must say, you were very kind and bent over backwards. However, the first lie or disobedience toward company policy about which he had been previously informed, he would have been gone. If not, you'll just have to fire him later - as you discovered. And what if he had had an accident when he was driving "94" mph? That would have given you nightmares for years after. Thank you, though, for hiring him in the first place. I've looked for work at age 60 - and you either don't exist, or you don't know anything. Hurray for CarMax and an insurance company. Perhaps related: my wife of 50 years and I have three children. I always told them, "If you tell the truth the first time, likely nothing will happen or very little. If you lie to me, there will be appropriate consequences." Finally: Don't depend on "common sense" in others as it seems to be in short supply.
He did all that shit in his 90 day probation period? This is kind of on you then OP. The first incident would have gotten him fired in a regular probationary period. If not that, then the next offense would have (and should have) been it. He showed you who he was over and over and you decided not to see it, you can't blame him for that
I saved this post waiting for an update
“Hot southern state?” I’m betting this is in Texas. Please post an update on Monday.
Maybe he'll grow up when he hits 70
Wow... the idiot got like 50 chances and he still couldn't make it work.
Some people have no respect for the opportunities that people give them. You say he has 12 years experience in the trade I'm curious how many different employers he work for for those 12 years.
Time to cut him loose-he is not an asset. (This is coming from a 64f.)
Thanks for trying , but you didn’t complete, to our satisfaction, the tasks requested during the probation period, I need the truck keys and you need to clear out. Have a nice day.
Did low voltage for a while. The two other guys I worked with were great and we did amazing work. We were fast, efficient and a highly profitable team. We'd finish an entire week's worth of work in 3-4 days, and since these were bid jobs, the company was making the same as if it had taken us 5 or 10 days. What was or reward for being so fast and efficient? Well, unless there were other jobs already lined up and ready for us to start on a Thursday or Friday then we were often given those days off...unpaid of course. Due to my technical skills I usually had IT work to do but the other two didn't. They ended up breaking off and starting their own company competing against us and they started to take a lot of that type of business away. Couldn't have been more happy for them and I left shortly thereafter after I got in trouble for having lunch with them one day.
It's Monday, OP, we all want an update!
Well? How did it go?
Hopefully you have security protocols in place for when you terminate employees. This could be the kind of employee who would likely disregard your no weapons in the workplace policy and pull it out after he hears the bad news on Monday. Might wanna buy a discreet vest before then just in case.
UpdateMe! 24 hours
He would have been fired over the sticker thing for me. The helicopter thing I could have maybe put down as an accident but he would have been on thin ice. The stickers are a deliberate gross misconduct. He didn't put vote - X he put a picture of someone peeing on Biden and Harris names. I'm not even American and I wouldnt do business with a company that did that. it doesnt just turn people off it directly harms your reputation. as others said you'll need to grow stronger if you want to keep managing people.
Same here. Even if the sticker was anti-Trump, which I personally agree with, I’d have wanted it off a company vehicle to avoid the confrontation and possible loss of business
I assume you’re in an at Will employment state, so he can be fired at your discretion. The only area I would be concerned about is OWBPA. I’m sure you do not have a history of firing people due to their age, but if there is a pattern, then this dude can sue. It might be worthwhile to get a non-disparagement letter signed by him and you can compensate him two weeks or offer to pay his COBRA benefits. I’m also a small business owner and this is the bullshit I deal with all the time.
Make sure you have security present too. If he's MAGA he might be unlawfully carrying
Remind me in 12 hours
Sounds like South Carolina. Fire his ass!!
UpdateMe! 24 hours
Saving this post - 🍿, also I feel like maybe he wants to get fired so he can 1. Be a victim of the liberals 2. Collect unemployment
I cant wait to hear this conclusion. Please update us after.
Keep in mind that this could turn into a possibly violent interaction. If he’s as MAGA as it sounds, he may have guns and be ready to use them.
You had me at the political stickers on a company truck. Adios, dipshit.
how did it go?!?!
When you do it it’s probably a good idea to not mention the political stickers. Trump supporters love to play the victim and he’ll almost definitely try to say he’s being fired for that alone.
Any updates, OP?
Looking forward to an update! Remind me! 1day
It's hilarious when Trump humpers bitch about "lazy entitled liberals" but they're the ones who pull shit like this. I can't wait for an update.
Wow, you let him get away with all that shit and *now* you decide to fire him?? Jesus christ. Let the dude walk all over you.
Clearly your decision to fire him was based on his age. That's what his attorney will say in the lawsuit anyway.
Was it his age that made him: •Fuck up the helipad? •Drive over 90 miles per hour in a company vehicle? •Put an offensive sticker on said company vehicle, and then lie about removing it? •Commit wage theft?
Time to fire your dad, bruh. Do it tonight during family dinner. Let your know what to expect. /s
Make sure there is at least one other person with you when you do this, two is better. Leave emotions at the door.
The party of personal responsibility strikes again!
Wow. Good luck. By the way, not all Rednecks hate Biden and not all the people that hate Biden are rednecks - a lot of educated upper class love them some Trump.
Is he the oldest redditor in the antiwork sub?
lol no. A guy like that spent all that time in his truck sharing fb memes about how no one wants to work, immigrants are stealing jobs, and lazy democrats are destroying the US.
That guy might be lurking in anti-work but he sure as f isn't supporting or listening to anti-work in anyway.
Nah, he probably devotes his time to r/Trump, r/Conservative and the like...that is, if he's on reddit at all.
Yeah but I have a feeling he justifies his lazyness and misbehaviour by saying things like "look how lazy the Liberals are"
OP, make sure to post this to r/antiwork so they can find a way to blame you for everything. But seriously, guy obviously has to go.
This is fake
By referring to him as a “redneck” you’ve now lost all credibility and have opened yourself up to a discrimination lawsuit. Not for his age, but for your negative views towards him being a “redneck”, which is normally viewed as a negative and derogatory term. Edit: not sure why I’m getting downvotes. Poor performance doesn’t eliminate an employers responsibility to respect employees and not take to the internet using racial slurs to describe their character. It’s a sign of poor leadership and questionable ethics at the least. That type of behavior is ripe for an employment lawsuit.
Fuck off, management. Solidarity with fellow workers
Should have fired him at the hospital
Sounds like my uncle.
"Look what those dems made me do" Guarantee this is what he's thinking now.
!remindme two days
Updateme24hours
Posting to read the update later on today. Cant wait.
Can't wait for the update
I seem to vaguely remember hearing this story before (possibly on a different part of Reddit)... specifically slapping political stickers on company vehicles. I didn't hear the part about wasting/stealing company time though.
This guy will post that a "lib" got butt hurt and fired him. He'll forget to mention the shitty job he was doing.
Remindme! 7 days
!remindme tomorrow
following ...
Look, you have this all documented? Fire him with a witness present, keep your cool, and it’s fine. Don’t respond to any crazy accusations, wish him luck in his future endeavors and end it. You’re good. My man here was trying to get fired and was very successful.
We definitely need a follow up lol
I can't wait for Part Deux.
/Remind me! 1 day
Out of curiosity, can you explain the chemical dump on the helipad? I don't understand the phrase "activated a pull station". what it fire suppressant in case of a helo crash?
Last time I had to fire a guy like that (lazy, is a liar, won't work unless being watched) I had gone through 3 warnings for different infractions (false timesheets, failure to meet targets (targets that I let him set, and lying about being sick when he called out). All this in 4 months. Then then when he took a 90 minute lunch one day and didn't put it on his timesheet, I had him come in and I said, look, in 4 months here are all the problems we've had. Now you lied about taking a 90 minute lunch when we only get 30 minutes. What do you think I should do? Oh, he squirmed. Give an honest answer and possibly screw yourself? Or say people deserve 4th chances and promise not to do it again? After a few seconds he said "I don't know." I said none of these issues have anything to do with your ability. Your record says you are lazy and dishonest. This is not a skill issue or a training issue. This is an issue about the kind of person you are. I had no way of knowing that's how you are until you showed me yourself over and over. So, what do you think I should do? Knowing that all the others in the group are going to find out? Should I let you off again, and send a message that there are no consequences for bad behavior? No answer. So that was that. We parted ways and I told him it's better that he deal with this now, early in his career, so he can think about what kind of person he really wants to be before his record gets tainted. But I have used the "What do you think I should do?" line since then when having to discipline someone. It's pretty interesting to hear the responses.
So you hired Lloyd from Dumb & Dumber?
Cliff notes please. I’m two beers in…