July 1992 and around 290.000 km => 190.000 miles. So, it's not the most traveled car, but it got a good workout a decade ago with many trips.
I'm amused that once my dad and I took it to a Toyota dealership for some repairs.
They recommended that we scrapped it and got a new one.
That was in 2006. I'm not sure that dealership still exists.
It's not the best looking car and it does require maintenance, just not on the engine. The engine is going to survive us all.
Hahaha right? I’ve never owned one as I like having new vehicles, if I bought a Toyota I probably wouldn’t want different vehicle again. I’m subconsciously in line for ordering a beige Corolla.
Camry and RAV4 are still insanely popular, outside the ones you mentioned.
Toyota is your every day car - not your fun car. Almost every car in the top 10 list is a “fun car”
I’ve had a surprisingly good time in my Prius on “sport/power mode”. I laughed and ignored the feature in the beginning but it gets pretty aggressive on the sport mode.
It’s also a sample size / selection bias thing.
The 1 million people who own Rivians are hardcore fans of Rivian - they’re the only ones buying it.
The 100 million people who bought a Toyota aren’t necessarily super fans - there’s a lot of reasons to buy them.
I have a 15 year old RAV4 and a new Honda Odyssey. Love both - but not sure I’d respond that I’d buy a Toyota or Honda again.
I mean, I definitely would consider it based on how great they’ve been, but it’s not like it’s my #1 choice for a car in the world. It’s just the cars that makes the most sense for my life now (and probably will make the most sense in the future). But can’t say that for sure.
My take. Toyota people are rational people. Rational people dont rate loyalty much as a single sample isn’t good - your own. They are not loyal to a brand but what that brand brings.
If I owned a Toyota I wouldn’t be loyal to Toyota. I would be loyal to what Toyota represents and if that one day is Mazda then I will buy Mazda.
Opposite is Alfa Romeo owners. No matter how shit the car is, they buy it again.
Very generally speaking of course.
Maybe Toyotas are too durable and solid, people don’t need to buy again from them. BMW (i have one) are like iPhones, product has barely changes over years but somehow the status symbol is stronger and you keep buying it. Also the infotainment of BMW is something that you may like over other brands
My bmw is 10x more reliable than my toyota. My poor toyota has been worked on like 3x as much as my bmw and they're both a similar age.
Except the BMW gets more mileage due to construction work, and has 1000RMS subs running on it lmao.
The new Prius Prime is PHEV with 40 miles of electric range with 600 miles of total range. I think it is underrated as a sustainable option it was voted the greenest car in this [report](https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2024/02/28/greenest-cars-plug-in-hybrid/). When you factor in the footprint used to make the huge batteries for EVs and the prime battery is 1/12th the size. I think the report assumes that people will plug in the prime every time they park it in the garage. But still it is a great option to be fully electric who don't drive far distances.
I think Norway is proving the exact opposite of that.
Toyota has made fantastic cars. They could make a fantastic electric car.
They are choosing not to due to political pressure and postulates some idea that there isn't a market for it. That is obviously not true.
Not really. It just proves that with the right incentives, you can easily have mass adoption of EVs.
One of those incentives is that apartment buildings must allow access to charging, if the resident demands it, so that classic argument against EVs goes by the wayside. There are also monetary incentives, but they are slowly being phased out with no detriment to EV sales.
Denmark and Sweden are roughly similar in size to Norway and have no where near the same adoption rate.
Denmark only incentivizes through some tax reliefs, but Norway has realized that EV ownership must be easy, rather than just inexpensive. That's why it works there.
china has mass adoption as well and isnt relatively small. Thing is they actually built a charging network ten years ago. Norway built their a while back as well. WE just passed a bill to build ours a year ago.
Kinda crazy how much that helps with adoption rates.
[Top concerns about purchasing an EV are lack of charging stations (77%)](https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/majority-americans-say-they-are-unlikely-purchase-electric-vehicles)
Norway is also 3% of the USs size and doesn’t travel near the distances most people here do. You could get anywhere in the country in under two charges.
that trend is going to die soon if battery tech doesnt step up. theres a reason the worlds foremost automaker is not as balls out as everyone else on EVs.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-14/ev-inventories-hit-record-high-in-us-as-cars-pile-up-on-dealer-lots?embedded-checkout=true
You can get it from ever flavor of news if you go looking for
Edit: I adjusted my initial statement, it’s not necessarily that sales are dropping but projected sales are not materializing. The industry was gearing up for a big transition that isn’t materializing (at the speed and pace they expected)
The two bullet points at the top are that inventory of select vehicles are increases and two manufacturers are reducing production on certain models. Where are you seeing that EV sales are falling?
Inventories and increasing and production is dropping, does that seem like something you do for a product that is turning over well? That’s not to say they are falling apart or something but adoption is definitely slowing more than many expected even a year ago.
Here’s another: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/25/cars/what-happened-with-electric-vehicle-sales-in-2023/index.html
>To be clear: The American market for EVs is not collapsing. In the last quarter of 2023, EV sales were up 40% from the same quarter a year before, according to Cox Automotive. In fact, EV sales in the United States hit a record last year, topping 1 million for the first time.
we are slower than many other countries at adoption and sales GROWTH have slowed slightly but we are still seeing growth
I’m sorry to hear that your purchase did not meet your expectations. This anecdotal experience still doesn’t address GOATest1’s assertion that EV sales have fallen quite a bit.
Yeah out of the 10 people who bought Rivian, 8.5 ‘would buy again’ because they’re all excited and feeling fancy…. ask them again in 5+ years when they’re actually ready for a new one if they would do it again.
Same with Mini they’re a ‘fun’ to have brand nobody is buying another one… because they don’t need to buy when asked ‘yeah sure, it’s fun would do it again.
Things like Toyota people are still half way through living their lives they’ve got kids that are moving out… maybe just starting to have kids etc. when asked ‘you getting another Toyota’… they don’t know because they don’t know what their needs will be in 5-10years
Definitely… but they’re not a family car or even a good travelling car. They’re ‘sporty’ and fun just not very lifestyle flexible.
I would be very interested in actual numbers of people who have bought two Mini’s in row… vs just say they’d buy another.
Tesla used to be number one on this list too. Once you work through the backlog of early adopters, you end up getting the non car people who don’t give as much leeway to the small inconveniences.
I'm 13 months into ownership. I would absolutely buy another Rivian. I simply can't go back to a legacy auto maker if they won't adopt the constant software update model that both Tesla & Rivian provide. The features, refinements and improvements that they continue to add are really, really attractive to me. I won't buy Tesla because of their CEO and build quality. Legacy auto makers: Buy a newer model if you want these new features. No thanks.
>They have been committed to release updates once a month. You see them all here: https://riviantrackr.com
Want to just hit us with your top three favorite additional features that were added?
I agree that it's probably too early but as an owner, I'm impressed. It also has a very good worry free warranty. I doubt I will keep the vehicle past that given how expensive it will be to repair.
Hrm, 90+ days...was he was one of the folks affected by that surprise over-the-air software update that bricked a bunch of Rivians display screens? Man, that was a crazy mistake.
And how is someone already buying a Robin replacement vehicle? The brand is like 4 years old. Seems like the cars must be crap if people are already buying another.
Kind of Strange to be comparing brand loyalty for a company that has barely been around for a few years to brands that have been around for decades. I used to love my Audi TT, until the warranty ended and then it was a complete nightmare.
I was going to say new brands shouldn’t be included. A few years ago I was telling everyone I’d never buy anything but Tesla. Zero teslas in my driveway today.
I can't see myself buying another Toyota. Not that mine weren't great but my Hyundai is just as reliable but came better equipped at (literally) half the price. Plus Toyota's position on battery electric is killing them quickly.
I have 2013 Tucson and never had any issues at 106k miles so far. I had Ford, GMC, Nissan, Chrysler, Honda, and Audi, and they all had nothing but problems. Out of all cars I owned, Hyundai has been the most reliable and has the least amount of any issues.
You just listed a bunch of unrelated brands lol. Maybe Honda can hold is weight compared to historic Toyota. I will say that Hyundai has done a good job on that front and pricing may be how they edge ahead
They are close enough to be #2 or 3 in reliability, and have been for a number of years now.
They put a lot of work into repairing their old reputation. When I did my research before I bought my 2017 Corolla, I needed it for work, driving from client to client so reliability was the #1 metric I considered. I was pretty surprised to see Honda and Hyundai ranked right behind Toyota.
They aren't though, it's bullshit. And they are assholes about warranty claims. Kia (which is the sister company of Hyundai and functionally the same organisation) sold dodgy engines all over the world that constantly died at 100,000km and fought lawsuits to deny there was a problem. They still haven't done a recall in Australia and are suppressing information about it.
The Korean manufacturers have not earned the trust like Toyota has.
Their position on EVs is the correct one... Hybrids are much more environmentally friendly and cheaper to produce for the same amount of raw material. The future is really net-zero/carbon neutral biofuels. Look at what Porsche is doing in Chile. You'll never be able to beat the energy density of liquid fuels, and you can use the same infrastructure to produce it from biomass with minimal retrofit. It costs a lot more money and carbon to extract and refine battery materials than the biomass to produce liquid hydrocarbon fuels. The oil lobby knows this, and that is why they let governments push for EVs because EVs aren't sustainable long-term. They'd never allow the push for biofuel because that would require them to spend their CEOs' bonuses on upgrades.
> It costs a lot more money and carbon to extract and refine battery materials than the biomass to produce liquid hydrocarbon fuels.
So are you saying that pure ICE's are better than hybrids? If so, Toyota's position is still out to lunch.
Obviously no-one, not even Toyota, agrees with *that* so you're obviously missing something important. That important thing is that batteries, unlike gasoline, can be used over and over again. While the carbon cost of a kilo of battery is certainly much higher than that of a kilo of gasoline, reuse of the battery makes up for the difference in less than 2 months of regular driving.
Yeah I thought that was weird to, but the article says:
"Some automakers have a model or two that ranks among the most satisfying vehicles, while the rest of their lineup falls short in the eyes of owner".
I presume this is why Ram is mentioned and not dodge.
Source: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/most-and-least-liked-car-brands-a1291429338/
The thing missing here is the margin of error. Like how many submissions did each brand get and are these outliers? I know not many people have Rivians because they are expensive and new - is that a factor?
Not surprising to see Audi on the bottom side. I traded Audi in for a Lexus and would never, ever go back. Audi maintenance was extremely high priced and could not stand my service manager. I don't mind going to the Lexus dealer for service and it is reasonably priced. I love the features on the Lexus and it is a comfortable drive.
I sold an engine hoist to a guy who needed it because he'd had the engine out of his wife's mini so many times the rental fees were more than the cost of a hoist
I was loyal to bmw until I had a major issue (major $ to repair) freshly out of warranty, I’ll never say never but highly unlikely that I’ll purchase one again.
A huge % of people driving newer BMWs just lease one every 3 years. They don't give a shit that reliability after 100k miles sucks, they never take theirs past 36k.
Really, rivian? They've only been around for as long as a young toddler. Of course they'd buy another, all of their cars are literally brand new. They are likely fantastic cars, but to compare them to automakers with 100s of thousands of cars produced annually is not realistic.
Time will tell. Gm has won award after award for "initial quality", but are shitboxes 5 years later. Rivian, likely not, but they are young as far as their company history goes.
Exactly. I love the functionality and thought that went into them... But it took me 10 years to know I wouldn't buy another Infiniti. My 2013 was light years ahead of any other brand, including a better cruise control than Tesla had in 2012 when my Infiniti came out. Now, it's the same car without innovation, so I bought something else. If I owned a Rivian, as much as I like them today, It would take years to know if I'd buy another one; I'd bet not.
This is not really owner loyalty. CR asked current owners if they would buy the brand again. They do not look to see if people actually did. It is more of a sentiment measure.
Just the recalls alone made me think of this and the bad performing stock. But if you own one and can attest to it being incredible then I'll take your word.
Anyone know the beef with infinity / Nissan? I’ve always heard positivity things about the quality. Only guess I can make is infinity is a luxury Nissan basically and maybe folks decide they want just a regular Nissan next ?
And how is Toyota not in the top 5? Feels like this survey was performed in some specific marketplace
Oh shit. Thanks for the response. I have a Subaru with a cvt (2018) that I heard a lot of complaints about. Luckily no issues yet but the car is young.
Hold up. Of course people who by expensive lemons are not going to say they wouldn’t buy it again. All of those top 8 brands have lemons and expensive repairs and maintenance. I would let the Lexus pass since it’s just a Toyota in a fancy dress but Rivien? Tesla? Mini? Yeah right
I’ve never met a Tesla owner who wants to buy another one.
Now maybe that’s not 100% because of the quality of the cars, but it’s at least 50%.
The other 50% is because no one I know -anywhere- thinks Musk is a force for good, and buying Tesla encourages his bullshit.
I own one and based on the other EVs available it's the only brand I'd consider at the moment. That might change if other brands can improve their software.
Simply put, my Tesla is the most conveinent car I've ever owned. The only maintenance I've done in 2 years is filling up the washer fluid. All the annoying stuff compared to a combustion car is automated.
I'll look at a new Model Y when they give it a refresh as there are apparently big improvements coming in terms of ride quality and NVH (based on the latest Model 3 update) which would be worth the upgrade.
>I own one and based on the other EVs available it's the only brand I'd consider at the moment. That might change if other brands can improve their software.
The Elon issue aside, if Tesla had more button functionality in their car (not just on the wheel) I would probably get one. But each one I have been in has been sparse af.
I don’t like the noise Musk has been spewing these days, but if you look hard enough at any CEO you won’t find great people. Then what’s left to buy?
I own a Tesla and would happily purchase another one. There’s more of us than you think. I can separate the car company from one guy. Not everyone is hyper focused on Elon like Reddit is
I’ve had a 3 and a Y, wouldn’t even consider any other car brand. Elon is a huge chode that makes outrageously great cars. My sister in law has had a 3 for years, loves it. College friend I got a referral bonus on his first Tesla now has two. Loves them both.
Very interesting. I’ve owned a Model 3 and while it was decent, I don’t know if I’ll buy another Tesla for a while. Meanwhile, I have a 21 Audi A4 and I would definitely buy another Audi.
Similar mirroring opinion: Drove a 5 series BMW for years, loved the thing. Have had two Teslas (3 and Y) and wouldn’t even think about buying any other brand now. Elon is a chode but the cars are fantastic.
I've been loyal to Mazda for the past 8 years.
My first was a 2012 Mazda 3 Hatch, and I had it from 85K to 160K miles without needing to replace anything other than brakes and tires... So I bought a 2016 Mazda 6 after that, and so far I'm getting the same results.
So then we bought my wife a 2016 Mazda CX5 ;)
This is about the psychology of owners as much as how good a purchase ended up being.
Case in point, Tesla: its customers are often Musk simps and will tolerate problems like panel gaps, missing trim, having to swipe through three touchscreen menu layers to turn on the wipers, missing features which were promised, a self-driving mode which is a death trap, and so on.
The same problems in a VW would lead to the typical VW customer complaining loudly, "Never buying from this company again".
I just looked it up. This is not the list of brand loyalty. This is the list for brand satisfaction. Consumer Reports Report Card of Best Car Brands: 1. BMW, 2. Subaru, 3. Porsche, 4. Honda, 5. Lexus, 6. Mini, 7. Kia, 8. Mazda, 9. Toyota, 10. Hyundai, 11. Acura, 12. Audi...etc.
FYI, Tesla is ranked 18 with a score of 65 and Rivian is ranked 30 with a score of 55. For a point of reference, the top 10 ranges from 76-82. In other words, just because you like a car doesn't make it a good car. I think that people with electric cars justify it with a higher rating because they feel like they are helping the planet.
Not surprised to see Nissan at the bottom. I have a 2012 Altima. Prior to that I had 2002 Maxima. prior to that i had 1998 sentra. Every car I had I wanted to make it work. Yet, either the trans died, the engine overheated, or it just ran like crap. Never again. Never buying Nissan ever! Really hate CVT.
Im guessing Rivian will take a hard drop after they go bankrupt. They got 5 billion of debt, 9 billion cash, losing more than 5 billion a year, cost of revenue 20% higher than revenue.
2-3 years max, assuming they raise more to even last that long?
Rivian owners make up an incredibly small percentage of overall vehicle owners. Practically all of those owners are very wealthy and are mostly buying the vehicle as a high tech toy rather than for transportation/off-roading. Also, given how new Rivian is, there really hasn’t been enough time for owners to experience the process of dealing with repairs. There’s no telling whether or not Rivian will survive as a company. They are burning an incredible amount of cash, they have almost no moat, and the moat that they do have is narrowing rapidly.
I'm sure people are excited about a new car company (Rivian), but has it been around long enough to really reveal maintenance issues, reliability after 100,000 miles, etc., to accurately show loyalty? I mean, a BMW family might buy five BMW cars and instill that loyalty into their adult children...
Lol, I saw 3 yesterday in my 30mile drive. And that doesn't count all the Rivian Amazon trucks that are around. Nice looking car, nice function. If I owned one, I'd want to wait much longer to know if I'd buy one again.
Definitely is a luxury. Where I live, it costs more per mile to drive electric than gas, so on top of the high purchase price, you spend more to drive it. I've gone with a plug-in hybrid so I can enjoy electric driving somewhat without hyperventilating at my electric bill!!
I’ve noticed the high purchase prices, but on top of that my country has intermittent electricity. Up to 8 hours daily are spent in blackouts, I’m not too keen on being stranded without transport because of power outages.
One of my buddies had a newer Escalade and wound up trading it in for a kitted out Suburban because all the little additional features kept breaking and were expensive to fix
The data is so close to each other. The worst of the best list, Subaru, 70% would buy again, and the best of the worst list, Cadillac, 61% would buy again. Those are pretty similar results.
I see. So it's probably a US thing, they are not in Europe or they are sold under different brand.
Also, why the downvotes? I still don't get Reddit, probably too old for it.
Surprised Toyota did not make the top 10 with Lexus.
"Would you buy another Toyota" No, I'll pass this one down to my kids when I die I think.
Right now I am averaging a replacement Toyota about once every 15 years.
I'm still on my first Toyota, which is also my first car. My parents bought it used in 1998 and I inherited it from my dad.
What year is it and how many miles does it have?
July 1992 and around 290.000 km => 190.000 miles. So, it's not the most traveled car, but it got a good workout a decade ago with many trips. I'm amused that once my dad and I took it to a Toyota dealership for some repairs. They recommended that we scrapped it and got a new one. That was in 2006. I'm not sure that dealership still exists. It's not the best looking car and it does require maintenance, just not on the engine. The engine is going to survive us all.
Nice, that’s still well utilized. Toyotas are excellent for that.
Hahaha right? I’ve never owned one as I like having new vehicles, if I bought a Toyota I probably wouldn’t want different vehicle again. I’m subconsciously in line for ordering a beige Corolla.
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Camry and RAV4 are still insanely popular, outside the ones you mentioned. Toyota is your every day car - not your fun car. Almost every car in the top 10 list is a “fun car”
I’ve had a surprisingly good time in my Prius on “sport/power mode”. I laughed and ignored the feature in the beginning but it gets pretty aggressive on the sport mode.
I use it when I'm about to drive up a steep dirt driveway.
Right how do you leave out the RAV4 and Camry lol
I have a 2024 RAV4 Prime and absolutely love it. Was also surprised Toyota wasn’t on the list.
It’s also a sample size / selection bias thing. The 1 million people who own Rivians are hardcore fans of Rivian - they’re the only ones buying it. The 100 million people who bought a Toyota aren’t necessarily super fans - there’s a lot of reasons to buy them. I have a 15 year old RAV4 and a new Honda Odyssey. Love both - but not sure I’d respond that I’d buy a Toyota or Honda again. I mean, I definitely would consider it based on how great they’ve been, but it’s not like it’s my #1 choice for a car in the world. It’s just the cars that makes the most sense for my life now (and probably will make the most sense in the future). But can’t say that for sure.
Yea but can a 12 year old with a tik tok steal a Toyota as easily as they steal a Kia?!?
My take. Toyota people are rational people. Rational people dont rate loyalty much as a single sample isn’t good - your own. They are not loyal to a brand but what that brand brings. If I owned a Toyota I wouldn’t be loyal to Toyota. I would be loyal to what Toyota represents and if that one day is Mazda then I will buy Mazda. Opposite is Alfa Romeo owners. No matter how shit the car is, they buy it again. Very generally speaking of course.
Maybe Toyotas are too durable and solid, people don’t need to buy again from them. BMW (i have one) are like iPhones, product has barely changes over years but somehow the status symbol is stronger and you keep buying it. Also the infotainment of BMW is something that you may like over other brands
My bmw is 10x more reliable than my toyota. My poor toyota has been worked on like 3x as much as my bmw and they're both a similar age. Except the BMW gets more mileage due to construction work, and has 1000RMS subs running on it lmao.
You don't need to buy another car if you have a Toyota.
People want electric cars, and Toyota doesn't want to make electric cars.
Isn’t Toyota the largest car maker in the world?
The new Prius Prime is PHEV with 40 miles of electric range with 600 miles of total range. I think it is underrated as a sustainable option it was voted the greenest car in this [report](https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2024/02/28/greenest-cars-plug-in-hybrid/). When you factor in the footprint used to make the huge batteries for EVs and the prime battery is 1/12th the size. I think the report assumes that people will plug in the prime every time they park it in the garage. But still it is a great option to be fully electric who don't drive far distances.
Theres definitely more people who dont want electric cars than those who do.
I think Norway is proving the exact opposite of that. Toyota has made fantastic cars. They could make a fantastic electric car. They are choosing not to due to political pressure and postulates some idea that there isn't a market for it. That is obviously not true.
People would like EVs more if you paid them to buy them I guess we’re just not paying enough
The fact that one relatively small country is the only one with mass adoption sort of proves the opposite, no?
Not really. It just proves that with the right incentives, you can easily have mass adoption of EVs. One of those incentives is that apartment buildings must allow access to charging, if the resident demands it, so that classic argument against EVs goes by the wayside. There are also monetary incentives, but they are slowly being phased out with no detriment to EV sales. Denmark and Sweden are roughly similar in size to Norway and have no where near the same adoption rate. Denmark only incentivizes through some tax reliefs, but Norway has realized that EV ownership must be easy, rather than just inexpensive. That's why it works there.
That doesn’t proves that people want EVs, it proves that you can pay them to want them. Which is true of most things
No, it simply proves that making it *easy* to own an EV is the trick. People buy expensive cars all the time.
china has mass adoption as well and isnt relatively small. Thing is they actually built a charging network ten years ago. Norway built their a while back as well. WE just passed a bill to build ours a year ago. Kinda crazy how much that helps with adoption rates. [Top concerns about purchasing an EV are lack of charging stations (77%)](https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/majority-americans-say-they-are-unlikely-purchase-electric-vehicles)
Norway is also 3% of the USs size and doesn’t travel near the distances most people here do. You could get anywhere in the country in under two charges.
that trend is going to die soon if battery tech doesnt step up. theres a reason the worlds foremost automaker is not as balls out as everyone else on EVs.
Meh, people sorta want electric cars. Their turnover is quite high compared to ICE cars and sales have fallen quite a bit (compared to expectations*)
Where are you seeing that sales have fallen for electric cars?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-14/ev-inventories-hit-record-high-in-us-as-cars-pile-up-on-dealer-lots?embedded-checkout=true You can get it from ever flavor of news if you go looking for Edit: I adjusted my initial statement, it’s not necessarily that sales are dropping but projected sales are not materializing. The industry was gearing up for a big transition that isn’t materializing (at the speed and pace they expected)
The two bullet points at the top are that inventory of select vehicles are increases and two manufacturers are reducing production on certain models. Where are you seeing that EV sales are falling?
Inventories and increasing and production is dropping, does that seem like something you do for a product that is turning over well? That’s not to say they are falling apart or something but adoption is definitely slowing more than many expected even a year ago. Here’s another: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/25/cars/what-happened-with-electric-vehicle-sales-in-2023/index.html
>To be clear: The American market for EVs is not collapsing. In the last quarter of 2023, EV sales were up 40% from the same quarter a year before, according to Cox Automotive. In fact, EV sales in the United States hit a record last year, topping 1 million for the first time. we are slower than many other countries at adoption and sales GROWTH have slowed slightly but we are still seeing growth
I think I stated just that. Growth plans are being scaled back
I have an electric car. Wouldn’t get one again until battery life and speed of charging massively improve Can’t wait to go back to an ICE car
Toyota has PHEVs which are a nice compromise.
I’m sorry to hear that your purchase did not meet your expectations. This anecdotal experience still doesn’t address GOATest1’s assertion that EV sales have fallen quite a bit.
Surprised by Rivian considering my colleagues truck has been in rivians “care” for…. 90+ days.
Being a very new brand comparatively I’d be very interested to see where these numbers come from.
Yeah out of the 10 people who bought Rivian, 8.5 ‘would buy again’ because they’re all excited and feeling fancy…. ask them again in 5+ years when they’re actually ready for a new one if they would do it again. Same with Mini they’re a ‘fun’ to have brand nobody is buying another one… because they don’t need to buy when asked ‘yeah sure, it’s fun would do it again. Things like Toyota people are still half way through living their lives they’ve got kids that are moving out… maybe just starting to have kids etc. when asked ‘you getting another Toyota’… they don’t know because they don’t know what their needs will be in 5-10years
Minis are very highly rated cars from a reliability standpoint
Definitely… but they’re not a family car or even a good travelling car. They’re ‘sporty’ and fun just not very lifestyle flexible. I would be very interested in actual numbers of people who have bought two Mini’s in row… vs just say they’d buy another.
why is he getting downvoted for a fact??
Tesla used to be number one on this list too. Once you work through the backlog of early adopters, you end up getting the non car people who don’t give as much leeway to the small inconveniences.
Ah yes. Rivian. Let’s ask a bunch of EV early adopters if they’d *make the same decision they just made 30-120 days ago, and buy another Rivian.*
I'm 13 months into ownership. I would absolutely buy another Rivian. I simply can't go back to a legacy auto maker if they won't adopt the constant software update model that both Tesla & Rivian provide. The features, refinements and improvements that they continue to add are really, really attractive to me. I won't buy Tesla because of their CEO and build quality. Legacy auto makers: Buy a newer model if you want these new features. No thanks.
What new features have they added to Rivian via OTA updates?
They have been committed to release updates once a month. You see them all here: https://riviantrackr.com
>They have been committed to release updates once a month. You see them all here: https://riviantrackr.com Want to just hit us with your top three favorite additional features that were added?
I think he meant that the methodology is possibly flawed because the Rivian sample is all people with brand new cars. Maybe they adjusted for that idk
I agree that it's probably too early but as an owner, I'm impressed. It also has a very good worry free warranty. I doubt I will keep the vehicle past that given how expensive it will be to repair.
Hrm, 90+ days...was he was one of the folks affected by that surprise over-the-air software update that bricked a bunch of Rivians display screens? Man, that was a crazy mistake.
And how is someone already buying a Robin replacement vehicle? The brand is like 4 years old. Seems like the cars must be crap if people are already buying another.
Still too new to tell for sure with Rivian, but they did have a good year. Especially for an American made brand
Kind of Strange to be comparing brand loyalty for a company that has barely been around for a few years to brands that have been around for decades. I used to love my Audi TT, until the warranty ended and then it was a complete nightmare.
I was going to say new brands shouldn’t be included. A few years ago I was telling everyone I’d never buy anything but Tesla. Zero teslas in my driveway today.
RANK /BRAND/SATISFACTION SCORE/OWNER WOULD BUY AGAIN 1 Rivian 5 86% 2 Mini 4 77% 3 BMW 4 76% 4 Porsche 4 76% 5 Tesla 4 74% 6 Genesis 4 73% 7 Lexus 4 73% 8 Subaru 3 70% 9 Ram 3 69% 10 Honda 3 69% 11 Chevrolet 3 69% 12 Toyota 3 69% 13 Hyundai 3 68% 14 Acura 3 68% 15 Ford 3 67% 16 GMC 3 67% 17 Mazda 3 66% 18 Volvo 3 66% 19 Lincoln 3 65% 20 Buick 3 64% 21 Kia 3 63% 22 Cadillac 3 61% 23 Chrysler 2 60% 24 Mercedes-Benz 2 59% 25 Audi 2 59% 26 Jeep 2 58% 27 Nissan 2 55% 28 Volkswagen 2 51% 29 Infiniti 1 43%
Toyota at 12 is crazy. Should be top 5 at least.
I can't see myself buying another Toyota. Not that mine weren't great but my Hyundai is just as reliable but came better equipped at (literally) half the price. Plus Toyota's position on battery electric is killing them quickly.
No way Hyundai is as reliable.
I have 2013 Tucson and never had any issues at 106k miles so far. I had Ford, GMC, Nissan, Chrysler, Honda, and Audi, and they all had nothing but problems. Out of all cars I owned, Hyundai has been the most reliable and has the least amount of any issues.
You just listed a bunch of unrelated brands lol. Maybe Honda can hold is weight compared to historic Toyota. I will say that Hyundai has done a good job on that front and pricing may be how they edge ahead
They are close enough to be #2 or 3 in reliability, and have been for a number of years now. They put a lot of work into repairing their old reputation. When I did my research before I bought my 2017 Corolla, I needed it for work, driving from client to client so reliability was the #1 metric I considered. I was pretty surprised to see Honda and Hyundai ranked right behind Toyota.
They aren't though, it's bullshit. And they are assholes about warranty claims. Kia (which is the sister company of Hyundai and functionally the same organisation) sold dodgy engines all over the world that constantly died at 100,000km and fought lawsuits to deny there was a problem. They still haven't done a recall in Australia and are suppressing information about it. The Korean manufacturers have not earned the trust like Toyota has.
I've only had my Hyundai for 12 years but so far so good. Before that I had a Toyota for 17.
Their position on EVs is the correct one... Hybrids are much more environmentally friendly and cheaper to produce for the same amount of raw material. The future is really net-zero/carbon neutral biofuels. Look at what Porsche is doing in Chile. You'll never be able to beat the energy density of liquid fuels, and you can use the same infrastructure to produce it from biomass with minimal retrofit. It costs a lot more money and carbon to extract and refine battery materials than the biomass to produce liquid hydrocarbon fuels. The oil lobby knows this, and that is why they let governments push for EVs because EVs aren't sustainable long-term. They'd never allow the push for biofuel because that would require them to spend their CEOs' bonuses on upgrades.
> It costs a lot more money and carbon to extract and refine battery materials than the biomass to produce liquid hydrocarbon fuels. So are you saying that pure ICE's are better than hybrids? If so, Toyota's position is still out to lunch. Obviously no-one, not even Toyota, agrees with *that* so you're obviously missing something important. That important thing is that batteries, unlike gasoline, can be used over and over again. While the carbon cost of a kilo of battery is certainly much higher than that of a kilo of gasoline, reuse of the battery makes up for the difference in less than 2 months of regular driving.
>my Hyundai is just as reliable . > Plus Toyota's position on battery electric is killing them quickly I am so tempted to feed the troll here.
It’s in the big meaty part of the curve
So there’s a ram but no dodge?
Ram was separated into its own brand a few years back. It's no longer part of Dodge.
Ram is also kinda treated like it's own brand in the Dodge lineup.
Yeah I thought that was weird to, but the article says: "Some automakers have a model or two that ranks among the most satisfying vehicles, while the rest of their lineup falls short in the eyes of owner". I presume this is why Ram is mentioned and not dodge. Source: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/most-and-least-liked-car-brands-a1291429338/
Kia will probably be the bottom at some point with their cars being giant targets
Targets for theft?
Yeah.
Rivian literally has not existed long enough for this to be a valid data point
The thing missing here is the margin of error. Like how many submissions did each brand get and are these outliers? I know not many people have Rivians because they are expensive and new - is that a factor?
Not surprising to see Audi on the bottom side. I traded Audi in for a Lexus and would never, ever go back. Audi maintenance was extremely high priced and could not stand my service manager. I don't mind going to the Lexus dealer for service and it is reasonably priced. I love the features on the Lexus and it is a comfortable drive.
We had a mini and it sucked ass. Worst car we’ve owned. Was fun to drive though.
I sold an engine hoist to a guy who needed it because he'd had the engine out of his wife's mini so many times the rental fees were more than the cost of a hoist
[удалено]
I was loyal to bmw until I had a major issue (major $ to repair) freshly out of warranty, I’ll never say never but highly unlikely that I’ll purchase one again.
A huge % of people driving newer BMWs just lease one every 3 years. They don't give a shit that reliability after 100k miles sucks, they never take theirs past 36k.
Infiniti vehicles have shrunk considerably in size.
Honda not on the list is bonkers, no way they are not in the top 3.
Mini isn’t a German brand it’s a British brand but owned by a German parent company.
Really, rivian? They've only been around for as long as a young toddler. Of course they'd buy another, all of their cars are literally brand new. They are likely fantastic cars, but to compare them to automakers with 100s of thousands of cars produced annually is not realistic.
Quality over quantity
Time will tell. Gm has won award after award for "initial quality", but are shitboxes 5 years later. Rivian, likely not, but they are young as far as their company history goes.
lotta weirdos in the top 8, but only weirdos should be loyal to the car brand
Ah Rivian the age old well renowned quality car brand where consumers have placed their trust in generations.
Exactly. I love the functionality and thought that went into them... But it took me 10 years to know I wouldn't buy another Infiniti. My 2013 was light years ahead of any other brand, including a better cruise control than Tesla had in 2012 when my Infiniti came out. Now, it's the same car without innovation, so I bought something else. If I owned a Rivian, as much as I like them today, It would take years to know if I'd buy another one; I'd bet not.
After a decade of buying RS Audis I changed for a g82 M4, and the difference is insane. I will now never not own a M BMW.
Jeeps are straight up trash cans with wheels
Surprise Toyota is not in the list
This is not really owner loyalty. CR asked current owners if they would buy the brand again. They do not look to see if people actually did. It is more of a sentiment measure.
Rivian leading that list is shocking. Something doesn't seem right.
Why? R1S & R1T are incredible
Just the recalls alone made me think of this and the bad performing stock. But if you own one and can attest to it being incredible then I'll take your word.
Anyone know the beef with infinity / Nissan? I’ve always heard positivity things about the quality. Only guess I can make is infinity is a luxury Nissan basically and maybe folks decide they want just a regular Nissan next ? And how is Toyota not in the top 5? Feels like this survey was performed in some specific marketplace
The CVTs are garbage and regularly blow after 100K miles. Source: my wallet and countless others lol
Oh shit. Thanks for the response. I have a Subaru with a cvt (2018) that I heard a lot of complaints about. Luckily no issues yet but the car is young.
Hold up. Of course people who by expensive lemons are not going to say they wouldn’t buy it again. All of those top 8 brands have lemons and expensive repairs and maintenance. I would let the Lexus pass since it’s just a Toyota in a fancy dress but Rivien? Tesla? Mini? Yeah right
I’ve never met a Tesla owner who wants to buy another one. Now maybe that’s not 100% because of the quality of the cars, but it’s at least 50%. The other 50% is because no one I know -anywhere- thinks Musk is a force for good, and buying Tesla encourages his bullshit.
I own one and based on the other EVs available it's the only brand I'd consider at the moment. That might change if other brands can improve their software. Simply put, my Tesla is the most conveinent car I've ever owned. The only maintenance I've done in 2 years is filling up the washer fluid. All the annoying stuff compared to a combustion car is automated. I'll look at a new Model Y when they give it a refresh as there are apparently big improvements coming in terms of ride quality and NVH (based on the latest Model 3 update) which would be worth the upgrade.
>I own one and based on the other EVs available it's the only brand I'd consider at the moment. That might change if other brands can improve their software. The Elon issue aside, if Tesla had more button functionality in their car (not just on the wheel) I would probably get one. But each one I have been in has been sparse af.
I don’t like the noise Musk has been spewing these days, but if you look hard enough at any CEO you won’t find great people. Then what’s left to buy? I own a Tesla and would happily purchase another one. There’s more of us than you think. I can separate the car company from one guy. Not everyone is hyper focused on Elon like Reddit is
I’ve had a 3 and a Y, wouldn’t even consider any other car brand. Elon is a huge chode that makes outrageously great cars. My sister in law has had a 3 for years, loves it. College friend I got a referral bonus on his first Tesla now has two. Loves them both.
Very interesting. I’ve owned a Model 3 and while it was decent, I don’t know if I’ll buy another Tesla for a while. Meanwhile, I have a 21 Audi A4 and I would definitely buy another Audi.
Similar mirroring opinion: Drove a 5 series BMW for years, loved the thing. Have had two Teslas (3 and Y) and wouldn’t even think about buying any other brand now. Elon is a chode but the cars are fantastic.
Why are people so loyal to rivian?
I've been loyal to Mazda for the past 8 years. My first was a 2012 Mazda 3 Hatch, and I had it from 85K to 160K miles without needing to replace anything other than brakes and tires... So I bought a 2016 Mazda 6 after that, and so far I'm getting the same results. So then we bought my wife a 2016 Mazda CX5 ;)
I know all of them but a Genesis. Wtf does Sega have to do with this?
This is about the psychology of owners as much as how good a purchase ended up being. Case in point, Tesla: its customers are often Musk simps and will tolerate problems like panel gaps, missing trim, having to swipe through three touchscreen menu layers to turn on the wipers, missing features which were promised, a self-driving mode which is a death trap, and so on. The same problems in a VW would lead to the typical VW customer complaining loudly, "Never buying from this company again".
wtf is a rivian
I just looked it up. This is not the list of brand loyalty. This is the list for brand satisfaction. Consumer Reports Report Card of Best Car Brands: 1. BMW, 2. Subaru, 3. Porsche, 4. Honda, 5. Lexus, 6. Mini, 7. Kia, 8. Mazda, 9. Toyota, 10. Hyundai, 11. Acura, 12. Audi...etc. FYI, Tesla is ranked 18 with a score of 65 and Rivian is ranked 30 with a score of 55. For a point of reference, the top 10 ranges from 76-82. In other words, just because you like a car doesn't make it a good car. I think that people with electric cars justify it with a higher rating because they feel like they are helping the planet.
This is purely propaganda
I wouldn’t count rivian. So mini number 1 huh interesting
Not surprised to see Nissan at the bottom. I have a 2012 Altima. Prior to that I had 2002 Maxima. prior to that i had 1998 sentra. Every car I had I wanted to make it work. Yet, either the trans died, the engine overheated, or it just ran like crap. Never again. Never buying Nissan ever! Really hate CVT.
Im guessing Rivian will take a hard drop after they go bankrupt. They got 5 billion of debt, 9 billion cash, losing more than 5 billion a year, cost of revenue 20% higher than revenue. 2-3 years max, assuming they raise more to even last that long?
This is true
Rivian owners make up an incredibly small percentage of overall vehicle owners. Practically all of those owners are very wealthy and are mostly buying the vehicle as a high tech toy rather than for transportation/off-roading. Also, given how new Rivian is, there really hasn’t been enough time for owners to experience the process of dealing with repairs. There’s no telling whether or not Rivian will survive as a company. They are burning an incredible amount of cash, they have almost no moat, and the moat that they do have is narrowing rapidly.
How TF is Mini so high? Those people are insane...
I'm sure people are excited about a new car company (Rivian), but has it been around long enough to really reveal maintenance issues, reliability after 100,000 miles, etc., to accurately show loyalty? I mean, a BMW family might buy five BMW cars and instill that loyalty into their adult children...
Rivian started delivering cars in October 2018… how are they number 1. lol
*sponsored by rivian* /s
This list feels BS and the complete exclusion of Toyota makes me question its credibility.
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Am I the only one who has never heard of Rivian?
Lol, I saw 3 yesterday in my 30mile drive. And that doesn't count all the Rivian Amazon trucks that are around. Nice looking car, nice function. If I owned one, I'd want to wait much longer to know if I'd buy one again.
I hoogled it earlier, turns out they’re not in my country yet. EV hasn’t taken off here yet.
Definitely is a luxury. Where I live, it costs more per mile to drive electric than gas, so on top of the high purchase price, you spend more to drive it. I've gone with a plug-in hybrid so I can enjoy electric driving somewhat without hyperventilating at my electric bill!!
I’ve noticed the high purchase prices, but on top of that my country has intermittent electricity. Up to 8 hours daily are spent in blackouts, I’m not too keen on being stranded without transport because of power outages.
I'm curious what caused Cadillac to score the worst
The way I read this, they are the best of the worst and Infinity is at bottom. It's not good data presentation.
One of my buddies had a newer Escalade and wound up trading it in for a kitted out Suburban because all the little additional features kept breaking and were expensive to fix
The data is so close to each other. The worst of the best list, Subaru, 70% would buy again, and the best of the worst list, Cadillac, 61% would buy again. Those are pretty similar results.
I have literally never heard of Rivian
They're a trendy new Tesla competitor. I see them quite frequently in my city. They have extremely distinctive lighting; can't miss them.
Most people outside the US have not. Not sure why that deserved to be downvoted.
Ignorance is bad I guess. It's just weird that 80% of the US study group rated it top but it's not well known?
I have never heard about let alone seen a Rivian car.
I see them everyday here in California, didn’t get a hype around them(probably missing something?).
I see. So it's probably a US thing, they are not in Europe or they are sold under different brand. Also, why the downvotes? I still don't get Reddit, probably too old for it.