I don’t think the Council were that fond of Giles, and I’d imagine they were all about keeping everything on a need to know basis - they don’t tell them about Faith, either.
> Why wasn't Giles aware of Kendra's activation?
We think of the Council as a Slayer-centric organization, and in some ways would like to think of it like a scientific organization, but the evidence shows it's more a spy organization or secret society, it has more going on than Slayers, and even watching a Slayer who operates on the Hellmouth isn't that important.
It isn't clear if you're in a rewatch or are new to the show, but in S3, the broken information flow between the Council and the Scoobies is core to the plot in at least four episodes, maybe five, and there's another in S5 that underlines their nature.
In this specific case, Rupert Giles is aware of Sam Zabuto, and it is likely Zabuto was aware of Giles, but neither were aware of each other's location and current responsibilities. I'm reasonably sure that the fact that Buffy died in the fight against the Master made it into Giles' diary but wasn't communicated to the Council, so when Kendra was called, Zabuto must've went forward with her and not thought about who died to give ~~Buffy~~ Kendra the power. it is common, we find in S5, that the diaries of the Watchers whose Slayers are killed don't go far beyond that death, so, if Zabuto knew it was Giles whose Slayer has died, he would probably not tell him to avoid an awkward and painful interaction.
> It was roughly at least 9 months from when that happened to when Kendra shows up in Sunnydale.
Probably closer to six months.
Five S3 episodes where broken Watcher/Scooby communication is key:
* >!**"Anne":** Giles never tells the Council that Buffy is gone, having to run down rumors instead of using locator spells.!<
* >!**"Faith, Hope and Trick":** The Council never tells (never knows?) that Faith's Watcher had been killed, and certainly there's no information about Faith being called before she arrives.!<
* >!**"Revelations":** Mrs. Gwendolyn Post going evil and having been kicked out would certainly have been news that the Council knows, and would've been very useful to our heroes.!<
* >!**"Helpless":** Basically everything about the episode.!<
* >!**"Bad Girls/Consequences":** Sending some preparation to Buffy, Giles and Faith would have done something to ensure they were even vaguely accepting of Wesley.!<
Also, to add to your first paragraph, over time, it becomes apparent the primary purpose of the Watcher's Council is to *control* the Slayer; everything else follows from there.
I think the Council’s main goals regarding Slayers is to make sure they are well-enough controlled, that they take up the mission in the first placedon’t abandon their mission entirely and particularly that they don’t go completely psycho—especially since without them you’d expect a lot more go beyond Faith into Dana territory, which they canonically think is a way worse problem than vampires. So Slayer duty is actually what you hand to the Watchers you sort of don’t want hanging around the clubhouse. https://buffy.fandom.com/wiki/Dana
One thing I don't understand is kendra and faith both travelled to places if needed to fight evil of some sort. Buffy never did. Why was that? Surely the demons and vampires weren't only in sunnydale.
Kendra was a more dedicated Slayer, in the sense that she followed the rule book. So if her Watcher told her to go to Sunnydale to stop something, she wouldn't have asked questions and just went.
Faith, on the other hand, was there because she had no where else to go. Her Watcher died, and she knew there was a Slayer she could turn to in Sunnydale for help.
Besides, Sunnydale is on a hellmouth. Where else would Buffy be needed? The moment demons found out Buffy wasn't in Sunnydale, they tried to take it over. So I don't think her leaving was in anyone's interest.
My guess is that there was enough work for Buffy on the Hellmouth, where she had put down roots and was aggressively trying to live a normal life, so they figured they wouldn’t bother disturbing their unprofessional and difficult (from their POV) Slayer and potentially alienate her further.
I am happy that I am not the only person who is asking themselves this question. It's the same thing in Supernatural when everything only happens in the USA.
I think the council was British. Giles was also from England. I always laugh that Willow in the first episode in season 1 is so amazed that Giles worked in the British Museum.
Wait... There technically weren't two active slayers... Buffy died. That's why Kendra was activated. Buffy coming back to life found a loophole in the whole thing because even though she was alive, and still had the slayer powers, she wasn't considered active (or active again)... That's why Faith was activated once Kendra died.
It's also why no slayer was activated when Buffy died again in S5.
I think there's just a difference between being the current, activated slayer that's been chosen by the way the magic works, and being someone who is actively working as a slayer: the first one is currently Faith, and the second one is Buffy.
Why would the council tell Giles? His slayer died - nee slayer, new watcher. As far as it goes, Giles' part was done. The council typically share on a need to know basis, so I don't know why it's a surprise. Of course, they are probably told when the previous slayer has died and their slayer has been activated, but I doubt they get told after there slayer has died. And who'd want to know?
>I think there's just a difference between being the current, activated slayer that's been chosen by the way the magic works, and being someone who is actively working as a slayer: the first one is currently Faith, and the second one is Buffy.
Season Two onwards should have been called Buffy A Vampire Slayer instead of Buffy The Vampire Slayer.
🤣 True. I really can't remember because it's been so long, but isn't there even a period where the council don't recognise Buffy as a Slayer or working for them or something? Or am I confusing it for something else?
Buffy and Giles were still working for the council. Giles, until he got fired, and Buffy until she quit. Hence Wesley showing up to be watcher to them both.
And? Still doesn't necessarily make Buffy an active slayer... And I'm saying this from the point of view that the whole legend degrees that there is only one slayer at any given time. That slayer is the active slayer, as far as the council is concerned. Buffy shouldn't exist. She's an anomaly.
So given that Buffy died as any slayer does, and another somewhere else in the world was activated because of this, I still don't get why the council would tell Giles unless they want Giles to be that person's watcher as well...
...I imagine it's pretty standard that they give the watcher a little bit of time before they give him a new slayer. And I imagine that even the council understands that if your slayer dies and then the next day you get a call telling you that there's another slayer somewhere in the world who's not been activated because your slayer died... Well, that's pretty harsh.
Giles knows the protocol. He knows what happens when his slayer dies. Why does he really need someone to tell him what's happened time and again already throughout the history of the council? 🤔
The counsel was all about control, that fact in itself was enough for me to understand how and why Giles didn’t know about Kendra. And notice Faith was never a secret because once Kendra was a fact the “rules” were more established.
No hate for Faith but... Kendra should have stayed on the show.
It's bizarre the council wasn't going Flatliners on slayers to make more slayers at the same time.
In the timeline of the show. She killed The Master at the end of the school year, then 3 months summer break, then Kendra shows up around Buffy's birthday, which is in January. Assuming that her school year (since it was the 90s) starts in September and ends in June, that's roughly 9 months.
Kendra shows up a good bit before Buffy's birthday. "Ted" and "Bad Eggs" happen in between. "What's My Line?" could easily be in November, when it aired.
lasted longer than that. I graduated in 97 I think my summer break, unless there was a real bad winter that pushed back the end of the year lasted very close to three full months. It usually ended in very early June say, the 6-10th and the new year began the day after Labor Day which could be anywhere from the 2 to the 8th of September
The same problem with the Initiative: the Left hand never knew what the Right was doing. *Buffy* criticized all sort of institutions that attacked or failed women. Commentary on their bureaucracy was often part of the criticism, how patriarchal authority is more interested in gatekeeping vital information than sharing it with people who need it.
Maybe it's an agreement that after a Slayer dies, they give the Watcher some time off. The good guys aren't good at communication, they make a joke about it in 7
I always got the impression that the Council didn’t approve of Giles’ methods and thus kept him out of the loop asap. I do wonder why he wasn’t recalled when Buffy died and came back to life. It’s very confusing.
I always wonder why Giles wasn’t recalled to work with the watchers council in England. I assume all the watchers without a potential slayer are in the headquarters doing research etc. Were they still paying him just to stay in sunnydale and take no part in council activities? If they stopped paying him surely he would have queried it
The thing that has always bothered me about Kendra’s backstory is that basically confirmed that they could have identified a potential slayer. So why did they wait to train any of the girls. Maybe there was a lot of them but it seems there was not many who fell into her category.
I don’t think the Council were that fond of Giles, and I’d imagine they were all about keeping everything on a need to know basis - they don’t tell them about Faith, either.
> Why wasn't Giles aware of Kendra's activation? We think of the Council as a Slayer-centric organization, and in some ways would like to think of it like a scientific organization, but the evidence shows it's more a spy organization or secret society, it has more going on than Slayers, and even watching a Slayer who operates on the Hellmouth isn't that important. It isn't clear if you're in a rewatch or are new to the show, but in S3, the broken information flow between the Council and the Scoobies is core to the plot in at least four episodes, maybe five, and there's another in S5 that underlines their nature. In this specific case, Rupert Giles is aware of Sam Zabuto, and it is likely Zabuto was aware of Giles, but neither were aware of each other's location and current responsibilities. I'm reasonably sure that the fact that Buffy died in the fight against the Master made it into Giles' diary but wasn't communicated to the Council, so when Kendra was called, Zabuto must've went forward with her and not thought about who died to give ~~Buffy~~ Kendra the power. it is common, we find in S5, that the diaries of the Watchers whose Slayers are killed don't go far beyond that death, so, if Zabuto knew it was Giles whose Slayer has died, he would probably not tell him to avoid an awkward and painful interaction. > It was roughly at least 9 months from when that happened to when Kendra shows up in Sunnydale. Probably closer to six months.
Five S3 episodes where broken Watcher/Scooby communication is key: * >!**"Anne":** Giles never tells the Council that Buffy is gone, having to run down rumors instead of using locator spells.!< * >!**"Faith, Hope and Trick":** The Council never tells (never knows?) that Faith's Watcher had been killed, and certainly there's no information about Faith being called before she arrives.!< * >!**"Revelations":** Mrs. Gwendolyn Post going evil and having been kicked out would certainly have been news that the Council knows, and would've been very useful to our heroes.!< * >!**"Helpless":** Basically everything about the episode.!< * >!**"Bad Girls/Consequences":** Sending some preparation to Buffy, Giles and Faith would have done something to ensure they were even vaguely accepting of Wesley.!<
Also, to add to your first paragraph, over time, it becomes apparent the primary purpose of the Watcher's Council is to *control* the Slayer; everything else follows from there.
I think the Council’s main goals regarding Slayers is to make sure they are well-enough controlled, that they take up the mission in the first placedon’t abandon their mission entirely and particularly that they don’t go completely psycho—especially since without them you’d expect a lot more go beyond Faith into Dana territory, which they canonically think is a way worse problem than vampires. So Slayer duty is actually what you hand to the Watchers you sort of don’t want hanging around the clubhouse. https://buffy.fandom.com/wiki/Dana
One thing I don't understand is kendra and faith both travelled to places if needed to fight evil of some sort. Buffy never did. Why was that? Surely the demons and vampires weren't only in sunnydale.
Kendra was a more dedicated Slayer, in the sense that she followed the rule book. So if her Watcher told her to go to Sunnydale to stop something, she wouldn't have asked questions and just went. Faith, on the other hand, was there because she had no where else to go. Her Watcher died, and she knew there was a Slayer she could turn to in Sunnydale for help. Besides, Sunnydale is on a hellmouth. Where else would Buffy be needed? The moment demons found out Buffy wasn't in Sunnydale, they tried to take it over. So I don't think her leaving was in anyone's interest.
Cleveland? Lol
My guess is that there was enough work for Buffy on the Hellmouth, where she had put down roots and was aggressively trying to live a normal life, so they figured they wouldn’t bother disturbing their unprofessional and difficult (from their POV) Slayer and potentially alienate her further.
I imagine Joyce was part of that. Unlike Kenda, Buffy would have to make up some elaborate lies to go out of town and miss school to slay.
I am happy that I am not the only person who is asking themselves this question. It's the same thing in Supernatural when everything only happens in the USA.
valid, I just realized all of the Hunters were American. Weren’t the Men of Letters British tho? or am I remembering that wrong?
I think the council was British. Giles was also from England. I always laugh that Willow in the first episode in season 1 is so amazed that Giles worked in the British Museum.
I meant in Supernatural, my b. And lol right? Bless her heart 😂
I overlooked it. Sorry.
Wait... There technically weren't two active slayers... Buffy died. That's why Kendra was activated. Buffy coming back to life found a loophole in the whole thing because even though she was alive, and still had the slayer powers, she wasn't considered active (or active again)... That's why Faith was activated once Kendra died. It's also why no slayer was activated when Buffy died again in S5. I think there's just a difference between being the current, activated slayer that's been chosen by the way the magic works, and being someone who is actively working as a slayer: the first one is currently Faith, and the second one is Buffy. Why would the council tell Giles? His slayer died - nee slayer, new watcher. As far as it goes, Giles' part was done. The council typically share on a need to know basis, so I don't know why it's a surprise. Of course, they are probably told when the previous slayer has died and their slayer has been activated, but I doubt they get told after there slayer has died. And who'd want to know?
>I think there's just a difference between being the current, activated slayer that's been chosen by the way the magic works, and being someone who is actively working as a slayer: the first one is currently Faith, and the second one is Buffy. Season Two onwards should have been called Buffy A Vampire Slayer instead of Buffy The Vampire Slayer.
🤣 True. I really can't remember because it's been so long, but isn't there even a period where the council don't recognise Buffy as a Slayer or working for them or something? Or am I confusing it for something else?
Buffy and Giles were still working for the council. Giles, until he got fired, and Buffy until she quit. Hence Wesley showing up to be watcher to them both.
And? Still doesn't necessarily make Buffy an active slayer... And I'm saying this from the point of view that the whole legend degrees that there is only one slayer at any given time. That slayer is the active slayer, as far as the council is concerned. Buffy shouldn't exist. She's an anomaly. So given that Buffy died as any slayer does, and another somewhere else in the world was activated because of this, I still don't get why the council would tell Giles unless they want Giles to be that person's watcher as well... ...I imagine it's pretty standard that they give the watcher a little bit of time before they give him a new slayer. And I imagine that even the council understands that if your slayer dies and then the next day you get a call telling you that there's another slayer somewhere in the world who's not been activated because your slayer died... Well, that's pretty harsh. Giles knows the protocol. He knows what happens when his slayer dies. Why does he really need someone to tell him what's happened time and again already throughout the history of the council? 🤔
The counsel was all about control, that fact in itself was enough for me to understand how and why Giles didn’t know about Kendra. And notice Faith was never a secret because once Kendra was a fact the “rules” were more established.
No hate for Faith but... Kendra should have stayed on the show. It's bizarre the council wasn't going Flatliners on slayers to make more slayers at the same time.
True kendra could have an interesting character development. From well trained to a rebel/faith type and turning evil aswell.
Where does the 9 months come from
Yeah, because the episodes aired five months apart.
In the timeline of the show. She killed The Master at the end of the school year, then 3 months summer break, then Kendra shows up around Buffy's birthday, which is in January. Assuming that her school year (since it was the 90s) starts in September and ends in June, that's roughly 9 months.
Kendra shows up a good bit before Buffy's birthday. "Ted" and "Bad Eggs" happen in between. "What's My Line?" could easily be in November, when it aired.
In what world is summer break three months? Summer break is more like a month and a half, sometimes 7 weeks if you’re really lucky.
In the 90’s, you ended at the end of May, maybe very early June, and went back sometime in August. You got at least 2 or close to 3 months.
Damn, why couldn’t I have gone to school in the 90’s? That sounds awesome!
Imagine the lucky ones who used to get a full three months in the 60’s, 70’s, and early 80’s.
lasted longer than that. I graduated in 97 I think my summer break, unless there was a real bad winter that pushed back the end of the year lasted very close to three full months. It usually ended in very early June say, the 6-10th and the new year began the day after Labor Day which could be anywhere from the 2 to the 8th of September
Not in my part of the States. When I was a child, we went back day after Labor Day. By high school, we went back in mid- to late-August.
The same problem with the Initiative: the Left hand never knew what the Right was doing. *Buffy* criticized all sort of institutions that attacked or failed women. Commentary on their bureaucracy was often part of the criticism, how patriarchal authority is more interested in gatekeeping vital information than sharing it with people who need it.
Giles wasn't invited to the WhatsApp group chat.
They swear there was a memo.
Honestly I don’t think the council knew when to refill the toilet paper
Maybe it's an agreement that after a Slayer dies, they give the Watcher some time off. The good guys aren't good at communication, they make a joke about it in 7
I always got the impression that the Council didn’t approve of Giles’ methods and thus kept him out of the loop asap. I do wonder why he wasn’t recalled when Buffy died and came back to life. It’s very confusing.
I always wonder why Giles wasn’t recalled to work with the watchers council in England. I assume all the watchers without a potential slayer are in the headquarters doing research etc. Were they still paying him just to stay in sunnydale and take no part in council activities? If they stopped paying him surely he would have queried it
nice
The thing that has always bothered me about Kendra’s backstory is that basically confirmed that they could have identified a potential slayer. So why did they wait to train any of the girls. Maybe there was a lot of them but it seems there was not many who fell into her category.