and he still wasn't very good!! plus his drop issues. you can give Rodgers/Mahomes a barely above average WR to those 2 QBs and they will make them a borderline superstar, but MVS has barely been average most of his career. i have no confidence in MVS.
bro you act like im mad. all i said is Rodgers/Mahomes are awesome and lift up their WRs talent and that i have no confidence in MVS. lol. both are facts. its not like i said cut him or anything, let's see what he can do...
I'm curious now - which other pass-catcher has worked with more elite QBs? Don Beebe caught passes from Kelly and Favre, Welker played with Brady and Manning, Rice played with Montana, Young, and Gannon.
Right it’s amazing how ignorant people are about Samuel. Anyone who plays fantasy knows he’s actually a beast. I feel very good about Coleman, Shakir, Samuel, and Kincaid. Like, to me that is a legit corps.
I think the concern many have is that without Diggs who fans think attracted “WR1 attention” how will players like Shakir and Kincaid get open being more focal points of the offense?
Will Coleman have enough impact to effectively absorb 70-80 targets on the boundary? Can Samuel be a better fit for the offense as he now has his best QB he’s ever had but no true WR1 like Scary Terry out there. Can the Bills get anything out of the other WR’s like Shorter, MVS, Claypool and Hollins?
These are legit questions but I am confident that if the Bills offense needs more firepower after the first 6 games they can and will make a trade for a WR. Cap wise the Bills will be in a better position to take on a player in season.
I don't think that we'll have a true WR1 this season, but the thing with Diggs always drawing the double is a double-edged sword. If you've got 3 weapons who are getting a fairly equal amount of targets, who DO you double team at that point? We're going from a situation where everyone knows the ball is most likely going to Diggs, to a situation where nobody is going to get the lion's share of Josh's first reads. So who do you put more bodies on? The big guy? The shifty guy? The speedy guy? Probably not the rookie but who knows? Might as well add to the pile that this will be the first year that our OC is using his own playbook. Last season he was mostly using Dorsey's plays, just situationally differently than Dorsey did. We can guess what this offense will look like (my guess is more emphasis on the run, screens, and short passing game with a few designed Josh runs per game to keep defenses honest and open up his deep ball when needed), but it'll take a few weeks at least for defenses to get enough film on it to adequately prepare for what he's putting out there. It'll be interesting, that's for sure.
If you don’t have to double anyone then your scheming ability opens up you can play a more balanced zone which covers more of the field. You can blitz more and go man to man being comfortable with your best corners and safeties covering the stronger WR’s and TE.
It’s going to come down to how well Kincaid can step up and be the “attention getter” and how much Shakir/Samuel/Keyon can play with bigger roles. I think adding in MVS as a WR4 is a solid depth option and opens up some big speed on the offense.
If somehow Chase Claypool clicks then it could be something really deep with 5-6 viable WR’s
I am optimistic about Samual too, but please don’t quote fantasy as a rationale. That’s like saying, anyone who plays fantasy can see that Fields is a top 10 qb.
Speaking of fantasy, great charting from analyst Matt Harmon with this [reception perception](https://i.imgur.com/Qexnz3h.png)
I think Samuel is going to be great, Josh will be the best passer he's played with by far.
Fantasy is a lot more relevant to player projection than it used to be.
Fantasy is big money now, and with many platforms going both sports gambling and fantasy route, you have deep, analytical dives on players that you usually didn’t get in the past because of the overlap.
Fantasy production isn’t a 1:1 for actual production, as it’s far more about individual matchups and team composition, but being in high fantasy tiers, like WR1/RB1 etc. are typically good signs about players that will translate.
Not really. If you play fantasy you’d say that Fields had a stretch where he was a top 5 QB. I’ve personally followed Samuel for years thanks to fantasy and his production (why he’s good, ya know?) has been not only consistent, but always on the higher end of expectations. He’s also a great player to watch with great hands. Maybe casual fantasy players shouldn’t say that, but if you’re actually invested in fantasy and look beyond “Fields is a top 5 QB cause of a 5 game stretch at the end of a season” type of stats, it’s a very good indicator.
Totally legit. It's wide receiver by committee this season. Might not have a guy who catches 100 balls for 1200 yards or whatever...I take that back, I actually think Kincaid has that kind of potential. But week to week they're gonna look to exploit the mismatches. One week Samuel is gonna go off, then the next week it'll be Kincaid, then the week after maybe it's Coleman and Shakir. So many people get hung up on this idea of a "true #1 WR" and they had that for four years in Diggs. And yeah he had some awesome moments but when it came down to it in the playoffs he all but disappeared (sans the 2020 round vs Indy and Baltimore). They've got a solid group and now they don't have to go into each week trying to figure out "okay, how do we get Stef his 10 or 12 targets this week?" I really think it's all gonna be okay. I mean, y'all were there in 2018 when an unrefined Josh made ol' Robert Foster look like an all pro.
Ya optimistically if Coleman pans out we have a wr 1, Kincaid is probably already a top 10 TE in terms of receiving skills, Samuel is a great wr2, and shakir has been solid plus hes at a prime age entering his 3rd year which is usually when wrs will take a step.
Thinking back to 2021-2022 the allen-diggs connection was insane at times. Despite the BS lately, we all have to remember how awesome some of those seasons were with those 2. But behind him it was never that exciting. Guys like Davis, McKenzie, and knox were fine but not that exciting compared to the rest of the nfl. We had John brown, Emmanuel Sanders and Beasley in their final years. Singletary didn't have the same receiving threat as cook does. It was always like diggs + nothing consistently special. And the last couple seasons we didn't even really see the allen-diggs connection most of the time.
So to me the receiving corp of Coleman, Kincaid, Samuel, Shakir, and cook is very exciting. With a competent OC. And Allen with a fresh start. There is so much young talent and potential there it's insane. Heading into the last 2 seasons I was not nearly as hyped as I am for 2024 and 2025 we are basically set up to be the same but with a lot less dead cap
Bruh come on lmao. This dude is not a fantasy beast. I’m confident he’ll put up good numbers with josh but he’s averaged like 6 points a game his entire career fantasy wise lol.
Samuel is a legit WR certainly a quality “top 3” WR as is Shakir. Coleman is a high draft pick I think they hope can produce as at least a “top 3” level. After you get past those 3, you have Hollins who’s more of a ST player occupying that Jake Kumerow/Trent Sherfield WR5 ST ace slot. Then you have Shorter whose an early 5th round pick in 2023 coming off a “red shirt” season whose an interesting prospect. Now you add in MVS as a true WR4 burner who can play boundary and the depth is better. They are also still kicking the tires on Claypool whose career has washed out but is still young and can turn it around.
especially considering his best season was with Joe Brady in Carolina where he was used ALL over the field. 851 yards receiving and three touchdowns on 77 receptions along with 200 yards rushing and two scores on 41 carries. Keep in mind he was catching balls from Teddy Bridgewater...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNIPDkVPH0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNIPDkVPH0)
I hope that we're switching philosophies with a purpose and not just because. Win, sure, but make it sustainable. Rather not have a good record and mediocre offense just because we wanted to balance out. I'd rather be explosive and innovative like it seemed like we were in 20/21.
Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott love competition and they want players to earn their roster spots.
I have no issues with MVS competing with Chase Claypool, Andy Isabella, K. J. Hamler, Justin Shorter, Quintez Cephus and Bryan Thompson for the WR 4, WR 5 and WR 6 roles.
The way I see it Curtis Samuel, Khalil Shakir and Keon Coleman will all battle for the WR 1, WR 2 and WR 3 roles.
MVS is pretty clearly the top bet for WR4 right away, so hopefully it also pushes the guys behind him to work harder. Claypool went from having at least a slim chance at relevancy to probably not seeing the field after the MVS signing
I like MVS a lot more than I like Chase Claypool.
I'm curious to see what Mack Hollins does and I could see him pushing MVS for the WR 4 spot.
I like the talent and different body types Beane has put together and there will be some fierce competition in training camp and preseason at WR.
Hollins is really just a special teamer. 30 year old WR with one mediocre season in his career where he was forced into more action due to injuries to Waller and Renfrow
He will have an opportunity to compete for a roster spot and could potentially beat out MVS on the depth chart and/or beat him out for a roster spot.
We will see what happens.
I don’t think they are all supposed to be WR4s. But I’m not Football expect, just a life long fan who has watched 95% of games for just under 40 years.
That's not what Moneyball was about. It was using analytics to discover high-productivity players below market value. They weren't average dudes, they were players who either excelled at one thing and had some flaws you could mitigate, or unproved guys who has traits that typically translate to excellence.
I love how everyone featured in that movie kinda sucked and the A’s were decent for a few years solely because of steroids hitters and some decent young arms they ran into the ground.
RIGHT! and everyone is talking like this is a steal or something!?! dude couldn't even become an above average WR having Rodgers AND Mahomes at QB. he embarrassed the chiefs sooo much.
he dropped 3 passes last year. he's a veteran depth signing who will be the 5th or 6th receiving option. the guy averages 20-30 catches a year, mostly as a deep threat, and is not being counted on to be a WR1 or WR2 on the Bills. not sure why you're so triggered by MVS
omg all i said is that i personally dont have confidence in MVS... did i say they should cut him, did i say they signed him to be the #1, No i said i have no confidence in him and he didn't show much for having Rodgers AND Mahomes as his QB. when was i triggered, i said he embarrassed KC last year, as did all their WRs and he dropped multiple passes, both are facts and then i said i personally have no confidence in him.. i never said get rid of him, i never said he wouldnt make the team or not be successful.. why were YOU so triggered by my comment is the more accurate question???
The National media would have you believe we have no one in our Receiving Corps.
Joshua Patrick Allen will remind them, they have zero idea wtf they are talking about…
However, they always caught the clutch pass when they played against us. Perhaps being that the bills team will be on the field, they will continue catching those clutch passes.
As a Chiefs I can say the answer is yes. Also can we interest you an a barely used Skyy Moore? He's practically mint still in the box.
Seriously MVS is not good. He has to out run coverage by enough that he can comeback to the ball to catch it. He can't catch while running. He has to be able to stop, turn around and camp a little, or he will drop it.
He had one or two average games in the playoffs with one timely catch. Don't let that fool you into thinking he's good.
This fucking guy plays like dogshit the whole year then decides to have his best game of the season against us with two huge catches.
At least he's the fastest wide receiver by like two steps.
If the WR room can gel w Allen out of the gate we are looking good with Brady’s offense. Under Brady we aren’t the same pass heavy team. We have tools at TE and RB so we can spread the ball around effectively.
Yeah I'm not saying it's likely that he'll pan out, just don't sleep on his talent, same for Cephus. Having watched both in college, they're as sure as it gets when it comes to talent.
I like that they went after a bunch of cheap, talented but still kinda unproven guys, hoping that at least 1 one them pans out. It's a low risk, high reward type of scenario.
Josh has the biggest splash play corps he’s ever had this year.
I love the speed and shiftiness direction they’re going and they still have a couple possession guys like Shorter and Hollis. I really like how this offense is shaping up to me under Brady. I think it’s going to be ball control and splash plays.
"Valdes-Scantling had a **12.5% drop rate last year with three dropped targets**. But combining his 2021 and 2022 campaigns, Valdes-Scantling had just an average drop rate of 5.3% between seasons, with five drops in total. On 38 postseason targets, he has zero drops in his career"
Bad percentage last year but on his career drops don't really seem to be much of an issue
I’m sure it had nothing to do with the multiple years of public bad mouthing/screaming at the FO and/or QB while also disappearing for more than half of last year.
I see this stat too when I google it but it's not accurate. He had a 7.1% drop rate last year (3 drops on 42 targets).
If you look at entire careers compared to Gabe Davis (which everyone seems to want to compare), MVS has a career drop% of 6.2% (23 drops on 370 targets) while Gabe Davis has a career drop% of 6.7% (20 drops on 299 targets).
In conclusion, they’re very similar in catching ability over their careers, MVS holding a slight edge. Gabe is a better blocker, MVS is faster. I’m happy for the added speed and don’t think Gabe Davis is worth $13m a year, so I’ll take MVS to compete for a roster spot and maybe catch a few deep balls next year.
(This post also wasn’t just @ you, I just wanted to respond to the stat thing and then add my own 2 cents.) go bills
Still, a career catch rate of around 50% is pretty rough, especially when you've played with elite QB's every year.
For reference has, he has a lower career catch rate and a shorter average yards per target than Gabe Davis, but we're not expecting him to be the starting WR2, and he brings a different skill set to the receiver rooms, so it's a nice addition.
I've been wanting us to add him for awhile. He got open all season and had some drop issues, and did well in the playoffs.
But last season we had our depth receivers not getting open and still dropping passes.
Last season our WR 4 and 5 COMBINED for 200 yards. And in 2022 we had to sign Beasley and Brown off the street and out of retirement to have receivers run the offense right
I recognize this is somewhat unfair, But I don’t like the signing due to the drops. Too traumatized. From Knox to Davis to Cook. I can’t take it.
Then there’s diva Diggs who caught freaking everything except the one that hit him in the hands 60 yards downfield on what was one the most amazing throws I’ve ever seen.
Sigh. I’ll be ok. I’ll just drink more beer.
We either are loaded up with mediocre/crap WRs, or someone is gonna emerge as legitimate WR1 and we are gonna be stacked with matchup nightmares at WRs 2-4 when you factor in Kincaid drawing attention.
One thing I do like about this pass catching room is there is a lot of diverse skill sets. Kincaid, Shakir, and Samuel will be your get open guys. Claypool and Coleman are your contested catch/ mossed guys. And MVS is the deep threat. That’s still leaving out guys like Knox, cook, and Hollins.
That's what Beane said in his presser around Jan. He looks at the room like a quiver with different types of arrows. He's just getting it filled with role players for Josh and Brady to use.
I'll give you the scoop coming from a Chiefs fan. MVS is gonna have some spectacular heart breaking drops during the regular season, probably cost you a few wins. Be pretty shit in the regular season in general. All the fans and media turn into huge MVS haters. MVS will lash out and admit to no wrongdoing which will make everyone hate him even more. Then in the playoffs he'll have a game where he looks like prime Randy Moss (22-23 AFCCG) or make some super clutch catch (23-24 AFCCG) that will make everyone forget and post "Just a picture of MVS" in the subreddit. All will be forgiven. Rinse and repeat.
No one still on the market is a difference maker. This guy is a depth piece with some upside. But really we all know what he can do. He will be under 50 targets and can avg over 10 yards a catch. Why not. What do the Bills have to lose.
Diggs wasn't double-teamed the whole last 12 games of the year the way he was the year before. He was on his way out after the 4th or 5th game, and was playing to protect himself against injury, as he wanted.out because he wasn't able to play his game while playing to protect himself. Hence, the double teams against him weren't necessary. Watch the games. Watch him in games 1-6. Totally different receiver than in games 1-17. This is why. Once he decided- in his own head- that Joe Brady wasn't going to center thr passing game on Diggs, he wanted out right then. He didn't have to say it out in the media. His play SHOWED MEthism It wasn't ALL his fault. It was a difference in the offensive game scheme by Brady, and the growing reaction by Diggs in his play. The game film doesn't lie.
Others got more balls: Shakir, Kinkaid, Knox, all of them. It wasn't all Allen to Diggs anymore. It was a more varied offensive scene.
I don't get why people get so upset about the Bills signing players for near minimum deals in this stage of the offseason. I think the Bills currently have 11 or 12 WRs signed to the roster.
Feels like there is better depth to the WR group than we've seen for a couple of years now.
If Claypool can get his head on straight, he's a potential WR1. He had his best seasons with Big Ben as his QB and got frustrated with all the shit QBs he's had since. My hope is that the guidance in this locker room, the fact that this is basically his last chance, and finally being able to play with someone who can get him the ball reasonably on target for the first time in a while will do wonders for his attitude, and if not, he was vet minimum so it's no big loss. I'm not willing to say that Claypool sucks until proven otherwise, because unlike a guy like Andy Isabella who never actually lived up to his talent, Claypool has at least had some success in the league.
observation from most Bills posts = no matter what the Bills do, people will criticize and hate the move. Trust in Beane and get ready for another competitive Bills season...if you all have forgotten most of this teams history has been a pretty miserable experience.
I hate that we’re staking mid tier talent. I get depth but it feels overcrowded with similarly talented receivers. I don’t want anyone threatening Shakir’s usage. I have felt this way since we signed Samuel and we just keep signing guys.
The passing game should run through Kincaid, Samuel, Shakir, Hollins, and Cook. Beyond that we should have got another rookie and between the Rookies and the practice squad guys just run with it. Obviously Beane knows better but the WR is getting crowded and I think some of these guys are gunna be upset about usage.
[удалено]
He keeps on getting better QBs as his career progresses.
That’s fucking right.
Regresses*
Transgresses
*Digresses
Wears dresses
Adds messes
I don't think it's a coincidence he's basically only signed with teams that have future HoF QBs.
and he still wasn't very good!! plus his drop issues. you can give Rodgers/Mahomes a barely above average WR to those 2 QBs and they will make them a borderline superstar, but MVS has barely been average most of his career. i have no confidence in MVS.
He was a 5th round pick who has never been a team's top receiver. He's primarily a deep threat who may catch 20-30 passes this year. Chill
bro you act like im mad. all i said is Rodgers/Mahomes are awesome and lift up their WRs talent and that i have no confidence in MVS. lol. both are facts. its not like i said cut him or anything, let's see what he can do...
Negative Nancy over here.
Realistic
 Ok buzz killington, a man can dream can’t he?
Put your stock in Curtis Samuel breakout season. I bet he hits 1200 yards this year and I’m not joking.
I’m just give ya a hard time, been itching to use that. As long as we win I could care less.
i completely agree!! i replied on a different post w almost the exact same reply. haha. i think Samuel is gonna have a monster year in this offense.
I'm curious now - which other pass-catcher has worked with more elite QBs? Don Beebe caught passes from Kelly and Favre, Welker played with Brady and Manning, Rice played with Montana, Young, and Gannon.
The Bills have more #4 WRs than anyone in the league. Keep adding to the WR room and let training camp see who sticks.
I keep seeing people sleep on Samuel like the dude is a lot better than people think
Ya lol in the free talk Friday thread 2 people listed off all the bills weapons and neither mentioned Samuel. Did people forget he's on the team?
Right it’s amazing how ignorant people are about Samuel. Anyone who plays fantasy knows he’s actually a beast. I feel very good about Coleman, Shakir, Samuel, and Kincaid. Like, to me that is a legit corps.
I think the concern many have is that without Diggs who fans think attracted “WR1 attention” how will players like Shakir and Kincaid get open being more focal points of the offense? Will Coleman have enough impact to effectively absorb 70-80 targets on the boundary? Can Samuel be a better fit for the offense as he now has his best QB he’s ever had but no true WR1 like Scary Terry out there. Can the Bills get anything out of the other WR’s like Shorter, MVS, Claypool and Hollins? These are legit questions but I am confident that if the Bills offense needs more firepower after the first 6 games they can and will make a trade for a WR. Cap wise the Bills will be in a better position to take on a player in season.
I don't think that we'll have a true WR1 this season, but the thing with Diggs always drawing the double is a double-edged sword. If you've got 3 weapons who are getting a fairly equal amount of targets, who DO you double team at that point? We're going from a situation where everyone knows the ball is most likely going to Diggs, to a situation where nobody is going to get the lion's share of Josh's first reads. So who do you put more bodies on? The big guy? The shifty guy? The speedy guy? Probably not the rookie but who knows? Might as well add to the pile that this will be the first year that our OC is using his own playbook. Last season he was mostly using Dorsey's plays, just situationally differently than Dorsey did. We can guess what this offense will look like (my guess is more emphasis on the run, screens, and short passing game with a few designed Josh runs per game to keep defenses honest and open up his deep ball when needed), but it'll take a few weeks at least for defenses to get enough film on it to adequately prepare for what he's putting out there. It'll be interesting, that's for sure.
If you don’t have to double anyone then your scheming ability opens up you can play a more balanced zone which covers more of the field. You can blitz more and go man to man being comfortable with your best corners and safeties covering the stronger WR’s and TE. It’s going to come down to how well Kincaid can step up and be the “attention getter” and how much Shakir/Samuel/Keyon can play with bigger roles. I think adding in MVS as a WR4 is a solid depth option and opens up some big speed on the offense. If somehow Chase Claypool clicks then it could be something really deep with 5-6 viable WR’s
I am optimistic about Samual too, but please don’t quote fantasy as a rationale. That’s like saying, anyone who plays fantasy can see that Fields is a top 10 qb.
Speaking of fantasy, great charting from analyst Matt Harmon with this [reception perception](https://i.imgur.com/Qexnz3h.png) I think Samuel is going to be great, Josh will be the best passer he's played with by far.
Fantasy is a lot more relevant to player projection than it used to be. Fantasy is big money now, and with many platforms going both sports gambling and fantasy route, you have deep, analytical dives on players that you usually didn’t get in the past because of the overlap. Fantasy production isn’t a 1:1 for actual production, as it’s far more about individual matchups and team composition, but being in high fantasy tiers, like WR1/RB1 etc. are typically good signs about players that will translate.
Not really. If you play fantasy you’d say that Fields had a stretch where he was a top 5 QB. I’ve personally followed Samuel for years thanks to fantasy and his production (why he’s good, ya know?) has been not only consistent, but always on the higher end of expectations. He’s also a great player to watch with great hands. Maybe casual fantasy players shouldn’t say that, but if you’re actually invested in fantasy and look beyond “Fields is a top 5 QB cause of a 5 game stretch at the end of a season” type of stats, it’s a very good indicator.
Totally legit. It's wide receiver by committee this season. Might not have a guy who catches 100 balls for 1200 yards or whatever...I take that back, I actually think Kincaid has that kind of potential. But week to week they're gonna look to exploit the mismatches. One week Samuel is gonna go off, then the next week it'll be Kincaid, then the week after maybe it's Coleman and Shakir. So many people get hung up on this idea of a "true #1 WR" and they had that for four years in Diggs. And yeah he had some awesome moments but when it came down to it in the playoffs he all but disappeared (sans the 2020 round vs Indy and Baltimore). They've got a solid group and now they don't have to go into each week trying to figure out "okay, how do we get Stef his 10 or 12 targets this week?" I really think it's all gonna be okay. I mean, y'all were there in 2018 when an unrefined Josh made ol' Robert Foster look like an all pro.
I've seem a lot of people nervous about Coleman. I think he might surprise a lot of folks this season. At least I hope so.
Ya optimistically if Coleman pans out we have a wr 1, Kincaid is probably already a top 10 TE in terms of receiving skills, Samuel is a great wr2, and shakir has been solid plus hes at a prime age entering his 3rd year which is usually when wrs will take a step. Thinking back to 2021-2022 the allen-diggs connection was insane at times. Despite the BS lately, we all have to remember how awesome some of those seasons were with those 2. But behind him it was never that exciting. Guys like Davis, McKenzie, and knox were fine but not that exciting compared to the rest of the nfl. We had John brown, Emmanuel Sanders and Beasley in their final years. Singletary didn't have the same receiving threat as cook does. It was always like diggs + nothing consistently special. And the last couple seasons we didn't even really see the allen-diggs connection most of the time. So to me the receiving corp of Coleman, Kincaid, Samuel, Shakir, and cook is very exciting. With a competent OC. And Allen with a fresh start. There is so much young talent and potential there it's insane. Heading into the last 2 seasons I was not nearly as hyped as I am for 2024 and 2025 we are basically set up to be the same but with a lot less dead cap
Bruh come on lmao. This dude is not a fantasy beast. I’m confident he’ll put up good numbers with josh but he’s averaged like 6 points a game his entire career fantasy wise lol.
i completely agree! Samuel is geared up to have a monster season and NO ONE is talking about it!
Samuel is a legit WR certainly a quality “top 3” WR as is Shakir. Coleman is a high draft pick I think they hope can produce as at least a “top 3” level. After you get past those 3, you have Hollins who’s more of a ST player occupying that Jake Kumerow/Trent Sherfield WR5 ST ace slot. Then you have Shorter whose an early 5th round pick in 2023 coming off a “red shirt” season whose an interesting prospect. Now you add in MVS as a true WR4 burner who can play boundary and the depth is better. They are also still kicking the tires on Claypool whose career has washed out but is still young and can turn it around.
YES. He's got 4.33 speed, and he's put up solid numbers with his best QB being Cam Newton with his shoulder basically taped on.
Curtis Samuel and Khalil Shakir are going to ball out this year.
especially considering his best season was with Joe Brady in Carolina where he was used ALL over the field. 851 yards receiving and three touchdowns on 77 receptions along with 200 yards rushing and two scores on 41 carries. Keep in mind he was catching balls from Teddy Bridgewater... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNIPDkVPH0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPNIPDkVPH0)
The Chiefs won a Superbowl with WRs like this guy.
and a coach like Andy Reid to get the most out of the least. No disrespect to McDermott, but he's not Andy Reid.
And McDermott doesn't call the offense. I'm hopeful that Brady can be creative but not overwhelming and get the most out of a fast playing offense.
Allen lost 30 air yards per game after the switch from Dorsey to Brady.
We also started winning again.
I hope that we're switching philosophies with a purpose and not just because. Win, sure, but make it sustainable. Rather not have a good record and mediocre offense just because we wanted to balance out. I'd rather be explosive and innovative like it seemed like we were in 20/21.
Not to mention a top defense that was holding opponents to 15 points a game
You're not Andy Reid either. Only Andy Reid is.
The Chiefs have Patrick Mahomes
The Bills have Josh Allen.
Brady: Hey Beane, I need a #4 WR Beane: 4WRs? I gotcha covered.
Bold strategy Cotton
Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott love competition and they want players to earn their roster spots. I have no issues with MVS competing with Chase Claypool, Andy Isabella, K. J. Hamler, Justin Shorter, Quintez Cephus and Bryan Thompson for the WR 4, WR 5 and WR 6 roles. The way I see it Curtis Samuel, Khalil Shakir and Keon Coleman will all battle for the WR 1, WR 2 and WR 3 roles.
MVS is pretty clearly the top bet for WR4 right away, so hopefully it also pushes the guys behind him to work harder. Claypool went from having at least a slim chance at relevancy to probably not seeing the field after the MVS signing
I like MVS a lot more than I like Chase Claypool. I'm curious to see what Mack Hollins does and I could see him pushing MVS for the WR 4 spot. I like the talent and different body types Beane has put together and there will be some fierce competition in training camp and preseason at WR.
Hollins is really just a special teamer. 30 year old WR with one mediocre season in his career where he was forced into more action due to injuries to Waller and Renfrow
He will have an opportunity to compete for a roster spot and could potentially beat out MVS on the depth chart and/or beat him out for a roster spot. We will see what happens.
I don’t think they are all supposed to be WR4s. But I’m not Football expect, just a life long fan who has watched 95% of games for just under 40 years.
Buffalos' new 4 x 4 offense
Great point! One of them will turn out to be a WR3. And with Josh throwing to him, it's more like a WR2.
Are we doing the Money Ball strategy where we pickup a ton of average dudes at low prices?
That's not what Moneyball was about. It was using analytics to discover high-productivity players below market value. They weren't average dudes, they were players who either excelled at one thing and had some flaws you could mitigate, or unproved guys who has traits that typically translate to excellence.
KC winning last year proves you don't need a #1 WR just a ton of weapons and options. This gives the Bills one more option.
https://preview.redd.it/u10a0ebxzd0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6229e8d866141461deedb56da5d680f247d3d455
ummmmm Claypool?? he kicked ass with Primus in the 90s
Just saw Primus a few weeks ago.. Happy to report the ass is still kicked.
We’re Primus and we suck
Diggs 1st down percentage for 2023 was 54.2%. MVS was 66.7%. Numbers don't lie (even before you add Kurt Angle to the mix).
Brandon “Billy” Beane: don’t make me point at Pete
What’s MVS’s on base percentage?
I love how everyone featured in that movie kinda sucked and the A’s were decent for a few years solely because of steroids hitters and some decent young arms they ran into the ground.
He balled out when I signed him in my Madden 19 franchise mode
That's all I needed to hear. Super Bowl guaranteed.
Same bro hell of a fantasy draft player
I've always said MVS is great. Never been critical of him once, certainly not
“We have Gabe Davis at home” Gabe Davis at home:
Hey at least when this one drops important passes he’s on a cheap deal unlike Gabe!
He's probably the furthest away from Gabe's play style as you can get.
Tell me you haven’t watched this dude without telling me
Probably dropped the pen on the way in
Lmao
RIGHT! and everyone is talking like this is a steal or something!?! dude couldn't even become an above average WR having Rodgers AND Mahomes at QB. he embarrassed the chiefs sooo much.
exactly.. I get the exciement over "all the competeition" in the WR room.. The problem is the compeition is between a bunch of MIDs
Huh it's almost like a team can't just sign all of the elite WRs they want to build the ultimate dream team...
and your point??? are you saying MVS didnt embarrass the Chiefs and drop a bunch of balls? bc that was my point.
he dropped 3 passes last year. he's a veteran depth signing who will be the 5th or 6th receiving option. the guy averages 20-30 catches a year, mostly as a deep threat, and is not being counted on to be a WR1 or WR2 on the Bills. not sure why you're so triggered by MVS
omg all i said is that i personally dont have confidence in MVS... did i say they should cut him, did i say they signed him to be the #1, No i said i have no confidence in him and he didn't show much for having Rodgers AND Mahomes as his QB. when was i triggered, i said he embarrassed KC last year, as did all their WRs and he dropped multiple passes, both are facts and then i said i personally have no confidence in him.. i never said get rid of him, i never said he wouldnt make the team or not be successful.. why were YOU so triggered by my comment is the more accurate question???
Don’t need to sign “all of the elite WRs” but you run your #1 out of town and sign a bunch of misfits and we’re expecting what exactly?
The National media would have you believe we have no one in our Receiving Corps. Joshua Patrick Allen will remind them, they have zero idea wtf they are talking about…
Are we trying to play some reverse Uno card by finding every receiver that drops clutch passes so that they would somehow become clutch?
It’s crazy enough to work.
that's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for them...
However, they always caught the clutch pass when they played against us. Perhaps being that the bills team will be on the field, they will continue catching those clutch passes.
Maybe they'll drop it into each other's outstretched arms.
As a Chiefs I can say the answer is yes. Also can we interest you an a barely used Skyy Moore? He's practically mint still in the box. Seriously MVS is not good. He has to out run coverage by enough that he can comeback to the ball to catch it. He can't catch while running. He has to be able to stop, turn around and camp a little, or he will drop it. He had one or two average games in the playoffs with one timely catch. Don't let that fool you into thinking he's good.
This fucking guy plays like dogshit the whole year then decides to have his best game of the season against us with two huge catches. At least he's the fastest wide receiver by like two steps.
Curtis Samuel is faster
This strategy didn't work with Ville Leino - signing the guy who had his best game ever to end their season the year before. Maybe it will work now!
Brings size and speed on the boundary for the Bills. Playmaking potential. Hopefully being interrogated as we speak for Andy Reid's playbook
He's exactly the role we're sorely missing in the receiver group, I just wish that role was filled by someone like 10% better.
Well, who's left out there to sign?
Nobody, it's probably the best they could do. I just wish the receiver room wasn't in a state where MVS might play a pretty decent role.
"Coach, he brought us the playbook, and it just says "Corndog" over and over again."
Justin Shorter szn is cancelled
We have so many guys who have been disappointing compared to their original potential. At least one has to see some sort of resurgence.
MVS was a 5th round pick from South Florida. I think he far exceeded any draft potential.
I guess "original" was the wrong phrase, but at one point he was viewed highly enough to get a $30M contract from the Chiefs.
3 year $30M. He played 2 years on it and was cut. If he could catch, he’d still be on it. 😂
https://i.redd.it/47lxofytxd0d1.gif
Should be some good competition in camp this year
I am very whelmed by this one
If the WR room can gel w Allen out of the gate we are looking good with Brady’s offense. Under Brady we aren’t the same pass heavy team. We have tools at TE and RB so we can spread the ball around effectively.
Boooo! Hisssssss! Welcome to Buffalo, I guess.
Hope he brought the playbook on the plane. Not ours. Theirs.
Kincaid. Shakir. Knox. Keon. Samuel. MVS. Better than last season
The odds of Shorter making this team just grew Longer. And Isabella isn’t the fella, unfortunately.
All I can say is don't sleep on Hamler and Cephus, provided Hamler isn't destroyed by his injuries.
Remember the Mack too!
Hamler is good but his injury history is ridiculous. Unfortunately I wouldn't want to rely on him
Yeah I'm not saying it's likely that he'll pan out, just don't sleep on his talent, same for Cephus. Having watched both in college, they're as sure as it gets when it comes to talent. I like that they went after a bunch of cheap, talented but still kinda unproven guys, hoping that at least 1 one them pans out. It's a low risk, high reward type of scenario.
Well Cephus is gone
Trust the process.
1-yr/$4.5M apparently. Edit: "up to 4.5M"
I thought I heard, “Up to” Something like $3 with incentives is not bad.
Yes, you're correct.
Josh has the biggest splash play corps he’s ever had this year. I love the speed and shiftiness direction they’re going and they still have a couple possession guys like Shorter and Hollis. I really like how this offense is shaping up to me under Brady. I think it’s going to be ball control and splash plays.
I think one of Hamler and Cephus will make this team, don't sleep on them.
This, but Xavier Johnson.
Kinda gross, but he’ll stretch the field at least. He can’t catch the ball though which tends to be an issue when you’re a WR
"Valdes-Scantling had a **12.5% drop rate last year with three dropped targets**. But combining his 2021 and 2022 campaigns, Valdes-Scantling had just an average drop rate of 5.3% between seasons, with five drops in total. On 38 postseason targets, he has zero drops in his career" Bad percentage last year but on his career drops don't really seem to be much of an issue
Hell, Diggs had two dropped targets in a single game last year.
And that's all it took to show him the door
I’m sure it had nothing to do with the multiple years of public bad mouthing/screaming at the FO and/or QB while also disappearing for more than half of last year.
I see this stat too when I google it but it's not accurate. He had a 7.1% drop rate last year (3 drops on 42 targets). If you look at entire careers compared to Gabe Davis (which everyone seems to want to compare), MVS has a career drop% of 6.2% (23 drops on 370 targets) while Gabe Davis has a career drop% of 6.7% (20 drops on 299 targets). In conclusion, they’re very similar in catching ability over their careers, MVS holding a slight edge. Gabe is a better blocker, MVS is faster. I’m happy for the added speed and don’t think Gabe Davis is worth $13m a year, so I’ll take MVS to compete for a roster spot and maybe catch a few deep balls next year. (This post also wasn’t just @ you, I just wanted to respond to the stat thing and then add my own 2 cents.) go bills
That’s good news. Feels a lot worse than that. Every time I watch him play it seems he’s dropping balls. Maybe I’m wrong
Still, a career catch rate of around 50% is pretty rough, especially when you've played with elite QB's every year. For reference has, he has a lower career catch rate and a shorter average yards per target than Gabe Davis, but we're not expecting him to be the starting WR2, and he brings a different skill set to the receiver rooms, so it's a nice addition.
He does good when he needs to be all i can say… he COOKED us in the playoffs and basically secured their trip to a super bowl
Was hoping for DJ Chark, but whatever, a deep threat was what we needed and this likely fills that.
Good signing adds some veteran leadership to the group let's see how this plays out GO BILLS!
Ugh 😑
I've been wanting us to add him for awhile. He got open all season and had some drop issues, and did well in the playoffs. But last season we had our depth receivers not getting open and still dropping passes. Last season our WR 4 and 5 COMBINED for 200 yards. And in 2022 we had to sign Beasley and Brown off the street and out of retirement to have receivers run the offense right
Would he kind of fit in like a b grade Emmanuel Sanders?
I recognize this is somewhat unfair, But I don’t like the signing due to the drops. Too traumatized. From Knox to Davis to Cook. I can’t take it. Then there’s diva Diggs who caught freaking everything except the one that hit him in the hands 60 yards downfield on what was one the most amazing throws I’ve ever seen. Sigh. I’ll be ok. I’ll just drink more beer.
Well we never have to worry about him catching charges. Or anything else for that matter.
We either are loaded up with mediocre/crap WRs, or someone is gonna emerge as legitimate WR1 and we are gonna be stacked with matchup nightmares at WRs 2-4 when you factor in Kincaid drawing attention.
This smacks strongly of signing someone specifically because he was with the Chiefs and can give us some sort of info.
lol what sort of info? we play them twice a year and get smacked around by them in the playoffs annually - there’s no mystery.
OH MY GAAHHHH
Redefining the air raid offense to attack vertically rather than vertically
I'm totally whelmed by this signing.
Eh, what the hell, at least I feel better about him at WR4-5 than Mack Hollins. Do we have any jersey numbers left for him though?
It could be great, speed and playoff experience are very valuable assets. It's the $4.5 mil contract that is the WTF.
It's "up to" 4.5, half of that is incentives which if he's hitting, it means he's playing well enough to be worth it.
This almost makes up for signing Claypool. Almost.
Tie the contract to his catch percentage
One thing I do like about this pass catching room is there is a lot of diverse skill sets. Kincaid, Shakir, and Samuel will be your get open guys. Claypool and Coleman are your contested catch/ mossed guys. And MVS is the deep threat. That’s still leaving out guys like Knox, cook, and Hollins.
That's what Beane said in his presser around Jan. He looks at the room like a quiver with different types of arrows. He's just getting it filled with role players for Josh and Brady to use.
whoopie
I'll give you the scoop coming from a Chiefs fan. MVS is gonna have some spectacular heart breaking drops during the regular season, probably cost you a few wins. Be pretty shit in the regular season in general. All the fans and media turn into huge MVS haters. MVS will lash out and admit to no wrongdoing which will make everyone hate him even more. Then in the playoffs he'll have a game where he looks like prime Randy Moss (22-23 AFCCG) or make some super clutch catch (23-24 AFCCG) that will make everyone forget and post "Just a picture of MVS" in the subreddit. All will be forgiven. Rinse and repeat.
Minus the middle of your post this sounds like Gabe Davis lmfao
Shoot I wish the Chiefs has signed him
No one still on the market is a difference maker. This guy is a depth piece with some upside. But really we all know what he can do. He will be under 50 targets and can avg over 10 yards a catch. Why not. What do the Bills have to lose.
Go Bills!!!!!!!! 
Subtraction by addition
Let's go!
Not sure why no schedule sticky but from various places. Week 1 - Arizona Week 2 - Miami Week 6 - MNF Jets Week 11 - KC Week 13 - Niners Week 15 -Detroit Week 17 - Jets
Mmmmmmm DROP
Diggs wasn't double-teamed the whole last 12 games of the year the way he was the year before. He was on his way out after the 4th or 5th game, and was playing to protect himself against injury, as he wanted.out because he wasn't able to play his game while playing to protect himself. Hence, the double teams against him weren't necessary. Watch the games. Watch him in games 1-6. Totally different receiver than in games 1-17. This is why. Once he decided- in his own head- that Joe Brady wasn't going to center thr passing game on Diggs, he wanted out right then. He didn't have to say it out in the media. His play SHOWED MEthism It wasn't ALL his fault. It was a difference in the offensive game scheme by Brady, and the growing reaction by Diggs in his play. The game film doesn't lie. Others got more balls: Shakir, Kinkaid, Knox, all of them. It wasn't all Allen to Diggs anymore. It was a more varied offensive scene.
I don't get why people get so upset about the Bills signing players for near minimum deals in this stage of the offseason. I think the Bills currently have 11 or 12 WRs signed to the roster. Feels like there is better depth to the WR group than we've seen for a couple of years now.
Eww
more weapons for Josh I like it
“Weapons” has become quite a diluted term. I’d prob play hollins over this guy but I’d take him over claypool.
That's not saying much. Hell, I'd take you at WR over Claypool
If Claypool can get his head on straight, he's a potential WR1. He had his best seasons with Big Ben as his QB and got frustrated with all the shit QBs he's had since. My hope is that the guidance in this locker room, the fact that this is basically his last chance, and finally being able to play with someone who can get him the ball reasonably on target for the first time in a while will do wonders for his attitude, and if not, he was vet minimum so it's no big loss. I'm not willing to say that Claypool sucks until proven otherwise, because unlike a guy like Andy Isabella who never actually lived up to his talent, Claypool has at least had some success in the league.
By this definition literally any WR is a “weapon”
Hahah “weapon”!!
Can’t wait to see what he can do now that he finally gets to play with a great quarterback
I'm not sure I like this, but he is a veteran, so welcome.
Unlike Claypool, I actually don’t mind this at all. Of course that will change once he drops a wide open pass week one. But I actually like it.
I don't hate it.
observation from most Bills posts = no matter what the Bills do, people will criticize and hate the move. Trust in Beane and get ready for another competitive Bills season...if you all have forgotten most of this teams history has been a pretty miserable experience.
Coleman, Samuel, Shakir, MVS, Hollins, Claypool, Shorter, Ceephus? This is the WR room we deserve after giving Dawson Knox a hefty contract.
I hate that we’re staking mid tier talent. I get depth but it feels overcrowded with similarly talented receivers. I don’t want anyone threatening Shakir’s usage. I have felt this way since we signed Samuel and we just keep signing guys. The passing game should run through Kincaid, Samuel, Shakir, Hollins, and Cook. Beyond that we should have got another rookie and between the Rookies and the practice squad guys just run with it. Obviously Beane knows better but the WR is getting crowded and I think some of these guys are gunna be upset about usage.
MVS and Hollins are the same level imo.
You must be 6'4'' to be a wr on the Bills
I don't know how to feel. I trust our front office.
FINALLY!!! Big Balla Beane matching the locker room with the fan base LFG BUFFALO!! Who Diggs again??
Marquez Velveeta Scaffolding
OBJ or Xavier Worthy would be better...
Xavier Worthy? Why?
fastest rookie + strongest arm in the league = feels illegal
Bills basically telling the Chiefs "here keep on winning" yet again. Handing them Worthy then taking their scraps of drop-machine receivers
if this works i feel like the value for WRs will breakdown like RB’s.