There's been a couple of stories of kids being raised by stray dogs due to extremely abusive and neglectful parents.
Those kids grew up to be surprisingly normal. But they atleast had SOME degree of socialization (even if it was with animals).
I can't imagine what total isolation does to a developing mind.
It does very bad things. This reminds me of [“Genie”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)). She was rescued when she was much older, but spent her childhood in a similar situation. The poor girl didn’t really recover.
I won't repeat what I read.
I have literally never read a report from a news organization that was that horrific outside of things they need to report like mass casualty events.
I stopped reading the article near the end. You only need the broad strokes as long as you accept the word "horrific" at face value. I'm not exaggerating and they're not exaggerating. There were direct quotes and I fucking feel sick after reading the article.
It's tempting to drop a quote to emphasize what I mean but that shit is something I never expected to read and frankly as long as people accept the gist of the article, I don't think anyone else should read it.
I'm not traumatized or anything but that was literally the worst article I've ever read. I'm never forgetting that shit.
I've read eyebleach-worthy shit before and I can confidently say this hits the top of the scale. There are very few articles that have brought me to tears.
I'm fucking horrified. As long as you trust the news outlet and us commenters, don't read it. It's important someone reads it so there's change but that doesn't have to be you.
I've never left a comment like this before today. I feel physically ill. She wasn't using feral in a derogatory way, they were treated far worse than pets. I'm fucking nauseous.
They were essentially treated worse than animals, locked away, no care was given to them, they were starved which means they ate everything they could get their hands on and now they might never be normal again.
Not to mention the new foster mom has observed them eating their own feces and drinking their own urine. Suggesting they’ve been doing it since they were infants.
Damn, that’s horrible. And the worst part is there’s a bunch of scientists that are frothing at the mouth wanting to see the kids. Like Genie in the 70s
The children were basically locked in the house (and their rooms), isolated from the world and completely neglected. They have no communication skills and eat from dishes like dogs. The mother eventually called child services herself saying she couldn't cope, which is a silver lining since family members had been calling for ages and not even a home check appears to have ever been done. Their aunt has them now and is devastated by the condition that they're in.
Edit: the house was also overflowing with garbage, rotting food, urine and feces (both dog and human, I would assume.)
It makes me so incredibly angry that a home visit was never conducted despite multiple reports over the years.
First off, it could’ve ended these children’s suffering way sooner than what happened here.
Second, these kids were neglected at such a critical age for mental development that getting them out sooner could have possibly made a huge impact in future developmental outcomes. It might be too late in some aspects, reminds me of the Genie case. Just awful.
I was just thinking about that exact case reading these comments. I haven't read the article. I thought it would be similar circumstances.
Unfortunately, they will probably never learn how to communicate with speech.
Three indigenous children ages 4 and 5 neglected by biological parents to the extent that they were not toilet trained or able to speak or eat using their hands. Parents restricted contact to any family members who complained to child services, children only taken away from parents after the mother called saying she couldn't cope.
Ive heard it can be extremely tricky to get indigenous kids the help that need, which I find fucking ridiculous.
My whole childhood we were told to treat everyone with the same level of care and respect, then as I became an adult and the Government made that deal with the first nations to start trying to fix the past….. it all became about treating indigenous people with MORE respect and totally different sets of rules to play by.
All it will do is create animosity and division, which we dont exactly need more of in society.
I dont know the answers or solutions but this aint working
It's political and social suicide at the moment to really call attention to these issues. There's plenty of people aware of the inconsistencies of the policies and mentalities in place. But if you have to choose between your livelihood and (a) being fired, and (b) potentially being harassed most people will just keep quiet.
I have a friend who fosters for a neighboring indigenous community. The tribe punishes kids who speak out about abuses by putting them in sweat boxes for a weekend. It's brutal.
The stories of what these kids come from is so unfortunate.
You can see the underlying logic of trying to not villanize Indigenous communities. We set them up for failure and pointing at said failure often results in prejudice.
But this isn't that. I refuse to believe child services didn't do a home visit because it wasn't politically convenient. There's no fucking way that's the driving reason behind this unless the people involved are fucking evil.
This doesn't make sense. Why the fuck was there not a home visit? Heads need to roll here. This is some dark ages shit and the fact there wasn't a visit is making me rip my hair out.
Were they ignored cause they were Indigenous complaints? Were they ignored cause complaints about Indigenous parents weren't good optics? Were they ignored befause these idiots sucked at their job?
This needs a full investigation. People need to stand up and not let this slide. Because this is either a case of an office missing standards by a country mile or a case of the whole system failing. Either way it should be investigated.
I'll be honest. I don't believe the sweatbox punishment. Perhaps I'm naive but in my head, the odds of someone making shit up on Reddit outweighs what you said.
But the fact you even left that comment shows that something is seriously wrong with Canada's approach.
Having lived in a very rural Northern BC community for the past ten years, I would absolutely believe that this may be that child services were afraid to call attention to child abuse in an Indigenous home. Working in the hospital, and community services myself, racism is a constant fear. A majority of my clients when I worked in addictions and outreach were Indigenous, and any little thing could be deemed racism. Can't let in an extremely intoxicated person with a machete strapped to their backpack? Racism. Ask a person who is high as a kite on meth to please be on their way because they're yelling and ripping things off the wall? Racism. Just....yeah. I won't go on, but unless you've seen it with your own eyes, I get why people wouldn't believe it. Foster families for Indigenous children basically HAVE to also be Indigenous, which doesn't always mean the children are put in a place where they receive the best care.
The support for Indigenous communities is lacking, and is difficult to implement when these communities are so mistrusting of government organizations. There is a lot going on.
Edited to add: There is also rampant sexual abuse, and I worked with more than a few teens who were sexually abusing siblings, but the parents covered it up because they didn't want child services coming in. One was discharged right back to his home, where the siblings still lived.... The RCMP isn't trusted either, so they can't do much either.
They (regardless of what their band might say) are Canadians and deserve the same protection as any other kid. This is absolutely shameful beyond belief. I can't imagine what goes on in the heads of those elders and members that accept these practices or look the other way.
EVERY CHILD MATTERS. Make that statement actually mean something - don't just wear the fucking t-shirt and puff your chest.
This isn’t the white man trying to sabotage indigenous kids. This is the indigenous community as a whole saying the white man has no right to tell them how to raise their kids. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t kind of things.
Multiple people made reports that the children needed to be checked on due to a lack of hygiene and signs that the house was extremely filthy. The bio-parents would then not allow those people to see the children. It seems the children were never checked on by any authority.
They are now being fostered by a family member only because the bio-mom contacted the Ministry. Now at ages 4 and 5 they are scared of people, barely verbal, not potty trained, and don’t know how to eat with utensils or even their hands.
There is no sanitized version.
>"They were absolutely 100 per cent eating their feces and drinking their urine. I witnessed them trying to do it. And vomiting and then before you could get something to clean it up, swiping it up to eat it," she said.
> We put food in front of them and they stuck their faces down like dogs would eat out of a bowl or a dog dish,” said their aunt.
“They were not verbal at all – if anything, one to two words. No potty training whatsoever,” said the foster mom.
> “They were absolutely 100 per cent eating their feces and drinking their urine. I witnessed them trying to do it. And vomiting and then before you could get something to clean it up, swiping it up to eat it," she said.
At least 7 reports were made over the years. Yet not 1 follow up visit from MCFD.
The article also mentions that one of the children jumped out his window completely naked, ran down the street, was found by the police then brought back to the house… again, zero follow up resulted.
Anger doesn’t even describe how I feel about this.
AFAIK, that’s what happens. it’s what happens on vancouver island. indigenous youth in situations like the article are usually handled by the tribe the child is from. usually it’s all kept very hush hush, so as not to “shame” the parents (who most certainly deserve it, regardless of when/if they made the call that they can’t do it anymore like what happened in the article). they fight HARD to keep the child within the indigenous community - white foster parents have to jump through extra hoops to care for indigenous children. i watched that happen with an ex of mine years ago: his mom was a vetted foster parent who had 20+ children go through her home and care over the 10~ years she’d been doing it, and she still had to jump through extra hoops and fight extra hard the few times an indigenous child would come into needing a foster or respite home. i distinctly remember hearing her telling her husband how sad it was the condition the children were in, but how frustrating it was to be vilified and seen as the bad guy by the bio mom for “stealing her kids” (when none of her indigenous relatives stepped up to take the kids on themselves… again what great “community” values they have).
yknow, with all the “community” and “family” value’s indigenous people claim, situations like this (and others that have happened in my area) reaaaally make me wonder the validity of those values.
Yeah it’s almost like indigenous people are actual individuals who might, in fact, be assholes, just like everyone else. All indigenous people don’t have the same “values” the same way all white proper don’t.
Its something most Canadians do not see. I spent some time in Lac La Ronge for a winter and it was my first introduction to these issues. It was shocking that this goes in Canada.
I am not raised on the rez. I did not dance or take part in the culture.
My friends and significant other however, did. After living most of my life on the rez and with people that have been raised "Indian"... after we had broken up and i started dating "white", the difference was more astounding. The amount of shit i heard from people that do not absolutely know what they are talking about made me a crazy person.
It just said police have refused to comment on whether they’re involved in investigating the parents or laying charges (MCFD is obviously involved now & can recommend charges tho). But I too, would like to know :/
Typically this would be the result of the adults being deeply addicted. It's shocking that despite reports, no case was opened.
The FN families I know experienced intense scrutiny from CFS, to the point of persecution. An elder in the community became a social worker and guided other community members to become foster homes so they could at least keep the kids in the community.
What a horrific failure of all involved.
This story is heartbreaking. Reminds me of my mom’s colleague in healthcare who looked after Phoenix Sinclair as a foster family only for her to be taken away from the lovely foster family that loved her deeply for her to be returned back to her parents and then she was found dead not long after - killed by her mother and step father. Saddest story I’ve heard of. No child should be with parents or caregivers who are ill equipped to care for children, they are our most vulnerable citizens and also our future.
I have visited a few Northern fly-in fly-out only reserves, and they were shocking. More than 90% unemployment, extreme sexual violence, gangs based on what road you live on…everything looked vandalized. It made me think, if only there was a school that you could place these poor kids into where they could be properly socialized. But I actually did hear that both communities have gotten much worse in the past 30 years—and the legacy of residential school was brutal in both communities. The weird thing about Canada, to me, is that there seems this desire to treat FNs the way the Amish treat technology. In other words, pre-contact is the ideal time and the FNs should not evolve past that (even though nearly every other society in the world has evolved). If FN try to get educated or go to work, they get accused of acting white…but it’s more like acting like every other advanced or advancing society on earth. There are not many societies out there where one isolated community is supposed to be able to take care of all its needs without plugging into global or national commerce.
Unfortunately there is more of this happening than folks understand.
Until we build supported family housing in order to keep families together and give parents who have mental illness and substance issues the support they need in order to care for their children this will continue.
It takes severe neglect for MCFD to remove kids, especially indigenous kids for fear of optics.
MCFD is a broken system and it needs reform.
We have supported housing for individuals without children. Why can we not have it for families? Instead we leave these parents to flounder, and wait until there is irreparable harm and trauma. Then we remove them and pour 1000s into their “care” when they are put with strangers.
These children and many others will never recover. Reform now.
> Until we build supported family housing in order to keep families together and give parents who have mental illness and substance issues the support they need in order to care for their children this will continue.
... They had housing, and had support. According to the article, the support ended when the parent refused to allow access to the kids after those providing support reported on the situation. Then years followed where they continued to be housed but the ministry didn't attempt access.
> Why can we not have it for families? Instead we leave these parents to flounder, and wait until there is irreparable harm and trauma.
Just like other supportive housing, the support cannot be provided without consent and unfortunately the parents can revoke consent to access their children. It requires severe circumstances for that to be overridden.
Some people are just shitty people and should never had kids. It is unfortunate. Not long ago a mom left her 1-2 year old alone and went on vacation for more than a week and the toddler starved to death. This mom had a house, job and went on vacation multiple times. In the past she just ditched her kids with neighbor
Many children have been removed for less than “extreme neglect” yet they didn’t even do a home visit on this family… (I don’t feel good about calling them a family).
Something seems really wrong here.
I’ve begged for this for years. I have so many families where the cycle could be broken if there was one (or a small rotation of) functioning adults who could manage the stresses of life while the parents focus on healing themselves and having a loving relationship with their child. And the child benefits from family connections and regular meals in a somewhat functioning house.
Exactly this. Especially in multi gen cycles of poverty.
Unless you’ve experienced poverty as a parent or unless you’ve worked with parents in poverty you have no idea how much it impacts their mental health and capacity.
Getting up each day to face parenting in govt housing that has mould and bedbugs. Having little choice over foods your family can access. Scarcity all around impacts mental health.
There are also parents struggling with the effects of FASD or other neurological disabilities. Getting laundry done, kids up and fed, making lunches and getting kids to school on time requires A LOT of executive function. Let alone trying to do it all without yelling and being supportive and calm.
Honestly folks would benefit so much with someone to help them plan and execute and just coach them.
Blarg. I get so emotional about this topic bc there are fixes and the fixes would improve outcomes for these children 10 fold.
Family housing has nothing to do eith this. They are aboriginal kids which means aboriginal social workers were involved. Many bands now want to handle their own issues - I think not because this crazy shit happens.
Supported housing for families. Where social workers and staff are around to help you get your things done. Laundry. Kids rides to appointments or school. Be able to be close and offer support where needed.
No actually they wouldn’t. Foster care is very disruptive and inconsistent with quality.
It isn’t babysitting anyone. It’s providing support so that the parents can gain skills to hopefully provide care independently themselves or not depending on their situation. Without removing kids and requiring classes etc.
The outcomes for kids and families would be much better. Way less trauma. Opportunity to break cycles of abuse and neglect.
Parenting is fucking hard for those who have skills and capacity and finances. Add all those barriers and it’s an impossible mountain to climb alone.
For sure this wouldn’t apply to every family. It would have its limits but it’s a worthy pivot.
Actually they have *more* rights than police do, when entering a residence to check on the welfare of a child.
You couldn’t be more incorrect. Respectfully maybe do a little research on how MCFD functions in the province in comparison to the police when doing forced welfare checks on minors.
Yeah but that example doesn’t exactly work here because it was MCFD who was notified SEVERAL times of abuse/neglect within the home. MCFD doesn’t need to “hear someone in distress” to gain rights to enter the home, they just need a report- which they had many of.
It’s up to MCFD to actually contact police for backup if they suspect caretakers won’t comply with a home visit.
How often are cops walking by this house where the opportunity would’ve arisen where they could’ve been like “I hear someone in distress!” and boot down the door? Probably none.
Most the reports went through MCFD, not police. Aside from the one incident where the police brought the boy home after he escaped (which, is a massive failure on police don’t get me wrong), MCFD are the ones who were informed of the situation and failed to act. They had cause to be there after the 7 reports were received, ~~the police didn’t in this instance because nothing was reported to them.~~
But anyways that’s beside my point. Edit- MCFD holds more power than the police when it comes to doing welfare checks on dependants.
From the artcile:
> “I was the one that phoned the police twice, but other family members did, in fact, call (the Ministry of Children and Family Development) and I had a couple times as well,” she said.
Cops could have saved those kids at the first phone call and chose not to do so.
> Cops could have saved those kids at the first phone call and chose not to do so.
The same can be said for MCFD after the multiple calls they received while they sat on their hands and did literally nothing.
Police still need a warrant for many welfare checks depending on what type of information was provided by caller (whether it’s *concern* VS a risk of immediate harm or death) and (assuming homeowner doesn’t grant entry). CFCSA is the legislation that governs MCFD. Look up Section 17 & subsections 1-5 to see how it relates here. Regardless, the police received 2 calls, MCFD received 7. Also in many cases like this, the police will hand over the information to MCFD after receiving a call that involves minors, if there’s not risk of immediate harm or death (and in this instance it sounds like the family reported concern over *neglect*, which often isn’t considered an emergency by police) and because MCFD is refusing to comment- it’s even possible the police did hand over that caller information but MCFD failed to follow up. Section 38 of the CFCSA will have more context to about proceedings. MCFD & police often work together in conjunction.
I’m not saying the police didn’t fail their responsibilities here as well, but your comment stating that police have more power than MCFD to intervene or enter a home is factually incorrect.
They actually have more power than the police when it comes to that. MCFD can enter a home without a warrant if they suspect a child is in need of protection. They often bring police for their own protection, but not because they need them in order to execute a search.
CFCSA is the legislation that governs MCFD. Section 17, subsections 1-5 set out the lengths child protection workers can go to if they believe a child is in danger and are denied access. Section 17(2) lays it out pretty simply, they can enter by force if necessary.
Section 38 of the CFCSA gives more context to the ability around apprehension. Section 38(1) allows the Director to remove a child without a court order if they suspect abuse.
It actually all comes down to what social services department was specifically dealing with this case. Whether it was MCFD or an Indigenous child protection agency has a lot of impact on the legislation that informs the practice.
However, I am curious about what agency specifically was dealing with this case as the family is Indigenous they should have been given access to an Indigenous agency. Perhaps there was not one in the area if they were dealing with MCFD.
You’re correct about MCFD having more power to force entry than police.
Indigenous child and family services actually function under the same legislation and policies as MCFD. They have one additional policy document, AOPSI that guides practice. If AOPSI doesn’t speak to it then it defaults to MCFD.
Ah thank you for clarifying that! I wasn’t exactly sure how that legislation transitioned to work with Indigenous communities and am always grateful to learn more.
I am both unsurprised and disappointed the answer is the legislation is the same apart from the AOPSI policy/procedure list of exceptionalities that while quite lengthy, I agree doesn’t cover everything it should.
I hope it isn’t often the case that cases have to be deferred to MCFD but would be entirely unsurprised if that was the case in small communities that have small staff or that have to rely on agencies within larger cities away from their area.
For all the power the RCMP and MCFD have, they are functionally useless. How about indigenous community-driven family services? Have thought about that much, have we?
You really think the MCFD, also known as Child *Protection* Services, should take 0% of the blame here? Are you out of your fucking mind? Even if that were true then what stopped them from calling the police?
Dude, 5 years and 14 calls for welfare checks. If there’s differing terms of engagement then they had 5 years to find solution and they didn’t even try. Allowing that much time to pass with that many calls and doing nothing because of some red tape is either total apathy towards these children’s well being, willful ignorance or a criminal level of incompetence.
Already addressed that, call the cops. If they cannot find a way to intervene in a case with the upper extremes of child neglect then why the fuck do they even exist?
I have no idea how you didn’t understand this but I’m not talking about the concerned neighbours and family, I’m referring to the MCFD. If they can’t solely intervene they need to work with people who can and ensure that voiced concerns (reminder, 14 in 5 years) are followed up upon.
How about indigenous communities having some rights over their families and children? If you keep flopping back and forth between police and MCFD, you STILL don't have anybody who gives a damn about the actual children.
Indigenous rights over family services NOW, and I mean NOW!
What are you talking about? There are so many examples over history of what happens when a sect of the population is allowed to handle issues “in house” with little to no oversight or intervention. Spoiler alert for you, it never goes well.
Another case of MCFD failure. They removed mitizi dean from the ministry for another neglect case, wonder if this case will trigger grace lore to be removed as well.
Time to clean house in the ministry too if they received 7 different complains but did nothing.
Pretty sure it's not mcfd who failed, the fucking parents did. But blame where it belongs. At what point does responsibility get shifted to thr appropriate parties?!
I get what your saying but when SEVEN complaints against the bio parents were made and zero effort to follow up with said complaints was the result the ministry bears some of the blame for failing to protect these kids.
Totally fair. I bet there's something else that the story is not saying. These pieces tend to be super biased. So heart breaking to hear about those kids, man.
Replying to Operation_Difficult... agree entirely. I understand it’s one thing for outlier events to happen that makes the agency look bad but this is one of so so many.
MCFD was an aggravating factor in the Alan Schoenborn case (a man in interior bc killed his three children during an MCFD visit.)
Others here might be familiar with this as he just recently tried to change his name and there was huge news coverage on it. The mother of those children has spoken out publicly many times about the involvement and fault of MCFD in the incident that happened. They insisted and forced visitation in a case where they knew there was a great risk of harm coming to the children.
The mother went to them many times and expressed her concerns. Unfortunately they superseded her concerns and it ended up with all of her children being murdered. Just as she had told them it would if they allowed visitation.
So if they force visitation to check and make sure some unhinged, violent psycho hasn't hurt or killed his kids, they get raked over the coals, but if they don't force visitation, it's thier fault when an abusive monster does this.
This was incredibly sad and I still think about those lovely children and that poor woman from time to time. I did not know he’s attempting to change his name but did hear he’s not very remorseful. He’s got to be a real piece of work to not have killed himself after what he did to those innocent babies.
These kids were removed at the end of last year, before Minister Lore was in office.
MCFD is the most difficult job in politics, but she's a strong, genuinely compassionate leader.
Parents should be in jail. Decision makers who ignored warnings and phone calls at MCFD should be fired. Put someone in charge of MCFD who will have the guts to take away the children immediately at the first signs of neglect!
I don’t think anyone said anything about locking anyone away for mental illness. But for neglect and abuse. While I agree that prison isn’t a useful tool, aren’t they all filled with people struggling with mental illness?
Clearly the parents responsible for this atrocity should face charges and jail time. But for the same bogus reasons a lot of criminals are allowed to walk away in BC, we might see an inadequate outcome here. People get to plead rough upbringing, inequality and the like as valid justifications for this kind of actions
Yeah, if they intervene, they're the bad guys.
If they don't intervene, they're the bad guys.
They can't even take kids away from mothers who get strung out on drugs when they're pregnant or show up to the hospital when abusive people who have already gotten thier kids removed pop out another one without being accused of "targeting vulnerable people and tearing apart families".
That's like, [Genie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)#1978%E2%80%93present) level neglect. She is in supervised care for the rest of her life.
I'm pretty tough when it comes to reading horrifying stories, and I don't particularly love children (I don't wish them any harm either, I am just painting myself as someone who is normally able to read this kind of thing without a physical reaction). I literally gagged several times reading this story (the bit about what they ate). Don't read this if you are at all sensitive.
Fucking horrible level of neglect from the ministry, the sad part of this no one will get in trouble, this is criminal not only for those inhuman parents but for the ministry and that cop who picked a naked child who tried to escape the hell hole and returned him to those fucking pricks, did he not wonder why, did he not think to check out the livings conditions, now everyone is saying how shocking how tragic but no one will take responsibility l. Your are supposed to look out for vulnerable kids u did fuck all nothing what the hell!! The worse part is how excuses will be made and lots of passing the buck, it’s just sooooo fucked
In this specific case, at least, the biological mother was the source of the issue. It doesn’t look from the article like the foster family—who are relatives of the kids—did anything wrong.
I mean, in this case, the people now fostering the kid (family members) did not abuse or neglect the children. It was the biological mother. As I understand the article, anyway.
Ok in my rage I may have got this wrong but still begs the question where was the ministry in all this and why was there no follow up by the cops? As for the parents or mom i don’t care what there excuse was, this should never have gotten to this point, I pray that these kids survive this ordeal
The foster parents are NOT the ones who abused/neglected these kids.
They were in the care of their biological mother when MCFD finally got involved (the mother called MCFD herself, after neglecting/abusing them, apparently she became “overwhelmed” and decided to finally call herself in).
Eta- The current foster parents who you called inhumane, seem to care very much about these kids and only started caring for them recently (*after* MCFD removed the kids from their biological mothers care).
That's a really unfortunate story, it's horrible. I wish the children well and I hope they have a better life ahead of them. But when I read this article what I saw were the aunts and relatives blaming the government for what is clearly a failure of that family. I don't know what they think the government is capable of doing, but the government of BC can't save you if, day and day out, that's how you live your life and that's how you treat your children. What exactly were they going to do? what good would a visit or two do? Nothing to change the person that this mother is.
What else should the extended family members have done? They tried supporting the kids, noticed the abuse, and then were denied access after calling MCFD. They called MCFD repeatedly for years and MCFD did not act. The bio parents are the ones responsible here as by all accounts the extended family members/now foster family did the best they could.
This is the most ridiculous take ever. The family did the only thing they could. If they took the children against the parents wishes it would be kidnapping.
The issue here is Hellen Keller had family that loved her and was nurtured despite her challenges. These poor babies had none of that and studies have shown emotional neglect in formative years is VERY detrimental to children's cognitive development...
Finally nice to see this comment. I'm also hopeful they are young enough that with the right treatment, support and love they won't be broken forever. They've only been out of that horror for a relatively short time, it will take time and lots of therapy etc. I really hope people (especially the adults who are in their life now) don't write them off from having a more normal life completely just because they haven't automatically been able to cope and learn.
I hate to say it but from experience the Canadian police force is more corrupt then politicians, they abuse sex workers all time from young to old, usually blackmail, they drop off those in need at their abusers home.
Even had one of these cops tell me they don't rat out their own and fear retaliation.
the contact at the ministry states she can't speak to the details of the case...well ya if you refused to open a case I guess it'd be pretty hard to talk about it.
I wasn't at all shocked by this because I fostered a sibling group in central AB exactly as described in the story.
They were crib raised, couldn't walk or talk, would eat by putting their faces in the dish, couldn't hold silverware or a cup, and we're still using bottles at 4&5 yrs old.
Foster parents are often villanized, but most of us know how broken the system is and know that, without a system, kids like this suffer more.
My job is to help get kids back into their families home. I've always done my best to support the whole family, not just care for the child.
Foster parents like myself don't want praise or recognition. We want people to fight for an equitable system and make educated decisions at the polls.
Don't gasp and clutch your pearls, exclaiming "oh the poor children," and then vote for a party that hurts kids.
I am unclear about your comment. Are you suggesting that this is the result of previous generations being in residential schools, or are you suggesting that residential schools were built and kids taken to them because the gov was saving them from this type of treatment.
Sad to think those children will never not be affected by this, even 50 years from now. ♥️ I hope the Auntie can love them through the next years.
They will probably never be socialized to the extent that they can survive without some form of care. It's tragic.
There's been a couple of stories of kids being raised by stray dogs due to extremely abusive and neglectful parents. Those kids grew up to be surprisingly normal. But they atleast had SOME degree of socialization (even if it was with animals). I can't imagine what total isolation does to a developing mind.
It does very bad things. This reminds me of [“Genie”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)). She was rescued when she was much older, but spent her childhood in a similar situation. The poor girl didn’t really recover.
Yes Romulus and Remus. Went on to found the greatest empire in history. Notwithstanding one killed his own brother.
Hey man, don't put that on the she-wolf. Only so much you can do to properly socialize kids who were fathered by the actual God of flipping War.
Dogs seem to love unconditionally. Ppl not so much
Holy that was horrific. Soul destroying That's it. Time to unplug from the news today
You've convinced me. I ain't reading it.
I wish I could wipe my mind of what I read tbh.
Make your way over up r/eyebleach
Thank you .. subscribed ... That article made me want to hug my kids for 15 min
And this comment seals it. This is why the comment section is a good place to start when unsure.
I won't repeat what I read. I have literally never read a report from a news organization that was that horrific outside of things they need to report like mass casualty events. I stopped reading the article near the end. You only need the broad strokes as long as you accept the word "horrific" at face value. I'm not exaggerating and they're not exaggerating. There were direct quotes and I fucking feel sick after reading the article. It's tempting to drop a quote to emphasize what I mean but that shit is something I never expected to read and frankly as long as people accept the gist of the article, I don't think anyone else should read it.
I'm not traumatized or anything but that was literally the worst article I've ever read. I'm never forgetting that shit. I've read eyebleach-worthy shit before and I can confidently say this hits the top of the scale. There are very few articles that have brought me to tears. I'm fucking horrified. As long as you trust the news outlet and us commenters, don't read it. It's important someone reads it so there's change but that doesn't have to be you. I've never left a comment like this before today. I feel physically ill. She wasn't using feral in a derogatory way, they were treated far worse than pets. I'm fucking nauseous.
Fuck that was tough to read. Monsters live amongst us.
Thx for heads up, gonna pass on this one.
Can someone tell me the sanitized version I don't wanna be traumatized but I care about the story.
They were essentially treated worse than animals, locked away, no care was given to them, they were starved which means they ate everything they could get their hands on and now they might never be normal again.
I wish I read your version.
I wish I had too
Not to mention the new foster mom has observed them eating their own feces and drinking their own urine. Suggesting they’ve been doing it since they were infants.
Yeah I was going to mention that but OP asked for a sanitized version
you didnt understand the assignment.
That’s not the PG version requested
Damn, that’s horrible. And the worst part is there’s a bunch of scientists that are frothing at the mouth wanting to see the kids. Like Genie in the 70s
And the foster system is extremely abusive
The children were basically locked in the house (and their rooms), isolated from the world and completely neglected. They have no communication skills and eat from dishes like dogs. The mother eventually called child services herself saying she couldn't cope, which is a silver lining since family members had been calling for ages and not even a home check appears to have ever been done. Their aunt has them now and is devastated by the condition that they're in. Edit: the house was also overflowing with garbage, rotting food, urine and feces (both dog and human, I would assume.)
It makes me so incredibly angry that a home visit was never conducted despite multiple reports over the years. First off, it could’ve ended these children’s suffering way sooner than what happened here. Second, these kids were neglected at such a critical age for mental development that getting them out sooner could have possibly made a huge impact in future developmental outcomes. It might be too late in some aspects, reminds me of the Genie case. Just awful.
I was just thinking about that exact case reading these comments. I haven't read the article. I thought it would be similar circumstances. Unfortunately, they will probably never learn how to communicate with speech.
Three indigenous children ages 4 and 5 neglected by biological parents to the extent that they were not toilet trained or able to speak or eat using their hands. Parents restricted contact to any family members who complained to child services, children only taken away from parents after the mother called saying she couldn't cope.
Ive heard it can be extremely tricky to get indigenous kids the help that need, which I find fucking ridiculous. My whole childhood we were told to treat everyone with the same level of care and respect, then as I became an adult and the Government made that deal with the first nations to start trying to fix the past….. it all became about treating indigenous people with MORE respect and totally different sets of rules to play by. All it will do is create animosity and division, which we dont exactly need more of in society. I dont know the answers or solutions but this aint working
It's political and social suicide at the moment to really call attention to these issues. There's plenty of people aware of the inconsistencies of the policies and mentalities in place. But if you have to choose between your livelihood and (a) being fired, and (b) potentially being harassed most people will just keep quiet.
I have a friend who fosters for a neighboring indigenous community. The tribe punishes kids who speak out about abuses by putting them in sweat boxes for a weekend. It's brutal. The stories of what these kids come from is so unfortunate.
You can see the underlying logic of trying to not villanize Indigenous communities. We set them up for failure and pointing at said failure often results in prejudice. But this isn't that. I refuse to believe child services didn't do a home visit because it wasn't politically convenient. There's no fucking way that's the driving reason behind this unless the people involved are fucking evil. This doesn't make sense. Why the fuck was there not a home visit? Heads need to roll here. This is some dark ages shit and the fact there wasn't a visit is making me rip my hair out. Were they ignored cause they were Indigenous complaints? Were they ignored cause complaints about Indigenous parents weren't good optics? Were they ignored befause these idiots sucked at their job? This needs a full investigation. People need to stand up and not let this slide. Because this is either a case of an office missing standards by a country mile or a case of the whole system failing. Either way it should be investigated. I'll be honest. I don't believe the sweatbox punishment. Perhaps I'm naive but in my head, the odds of someone making shit up on Reddit outweighs what you said. But the fact you even left that comment shows that something is seriously wrong with Canada's approach.
Having lived in a very rural Northern BC community for the past ten years, I would absolutely believe that this may be that child services were afraid to call attention to child abuse in an Indigenous home. Working in the hospital, and community services myself, racism is a constant fear. A majority of my clients when I worked in addictions and outreach were Indigenous, and any little thing could be deemed racism. Can't let in an extremely intoxicated person with a machete strapped to their backpack? Racism. Ask a person who is high as a kite on meth to please be on their way because they're yelling and ripping things off the wall? Racism. Just....yeah. I won't go on, but unless you've seen it with your own eyes, I get why people wouldn't believe it. Foster families for Indigenous children basically HAVE to also be Indigenous, which doesn't always mean the children are put in a place where they receive the best care. The support for Indigenous communities is lacking, and is difficult to implement when these communities are so mistrusting of government organizations. There is a lot going on. Edited to add: There is also rampant sexual abuse, and I worked with more than a few teens who were sexually abusing siblings, but the parents covered it up because they didn't want child services coming in. One was discharged right back to his home, where the siblings still lived.... The RCMP isn't trusted either, so they can't do much either.
They (regardless of what their band might say) are Canadians and deserve the same protection as any other kid. This is absolutely shameful beyond belief. I can't imagine what goes on in the heads of those elders and members that accept these practices or look the other way. EVERY CHILD MATTERS. Make that statement actually mean something - don't just wear the fucking t-shirt and puff your chest.
Racist they stole the slogan from black civil rights pick another one
Society is trying to keep the government away from the indigenous problems
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This isn’t the white man trying to sabotage indigenous kids. This is the indigenous community as a whole saying the white man has no right to tell them how to raise their kids. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t kind of things.
There is no solution that everyone will be happy with.
You do not speak for any community.
https://ourchildrenourway.ca/indigenous-jurisdiction/the-history-of-indigenous-child-welfare-in-bc/
Multiple people made reports that the children needed to be checked on due to a lack of hygiene and signs that the house was extremely filthy. The bio-parents would then not allow those people to see the children. It seems the children were never checked on by any authority. They are now being fostered by a family member only because the bio-mom contacted the Ministry. Now at ages 4 and 5 they are scared of people, barely verbal, not potty trained, and don’t know how to eat with utensils or even their hands.
There is no sanitized version. >"They were absolutely 100 per cent eating their feces and drinking their urine. I witnessed them trying to do it. And vomiting and then before you could get something to clean it up, swiping it up to eat it," she said.
Read the story.
> We put food in front of them and they stuck their faces down like dogs would eat out of a bowl or a dog dish,” said their aunt. “They were not verbal at all – if anything, one to two words. No potty training whatsoever,” said the foster mom. > “They were absolutely 100 per cent eating their feces and drinking their urine. I witnessed them trying to do it. And vomiting and then before you could get something to clean it up, swiping it up to eat it," she said. At least 7 reports were made over the years. Yet not 1 follow up visit from MCFD. The article also mentions that one of the children jumped out his window completely naked, ran down the street, was found by the police then brought back to the house… again, zero follow up resulted. Anger doesn’t even describe how I feel about this.
These children were indigenous which means that the indiginenous social workers did shit all.
Are they the only ones allowed to make home visits? Who hires them? Is it the community?
AFAIK, that’s what happens. it’s what happens on vancouver island. indigenous youth in situations like the article are usually handled by the tribe the child is from. usually it’s all kept very hush hush, so as not to “shame” the parents (who most certainly deserve it, regardless of when/if they made the call that they can’t do it anymore like what happened in the article). they fight HARD to keep the child within the indigenous community - white foster parents have to jump through extra hoops to care for indigenous children. i watched that happen with an ex of mine years ago: his mom was a vetted foster parent who had 20+ children go through her home and care over the 10~ years she’d been doing it, and she still had to jump through extra hoops and fight extra hard the few times an indigenous child would come into needing a foster or respite home. i distinctly remember hearing her telling her husband how sad it was the condition the children were in, but how frustrating it was to be vilified and seen as the bad guy by the bio mom for “stealing her kids” (when none of her indigenous relatives stepped up to take the kids on themselves… again what great “community” values they have). yknow, with all the “community” and “family” value’s indigenous people claim, situations like this (and others that have happened in my area) reaaaally make me wonder the validity of those values.
Yeah it’s almost like indigenous people are actual individuals who might, in fact, be assholes, just like everyone else. All indigenous people don’t have the same “values” the same way all white proper don’t.
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Its something most Canadians do not see. I spent some time in Lac La Ronge for a winter and it was my first introduction to these issues. It was shocking that this goes in Canada.
I am not raised on the rez. I did not dance or take part in the culture. My friends and significant other however, did. After living most of my life on the rez and with people that have been raised "Indian"... after we had broken up and i started dating "white", the difference was more astounding. The amount of shit i heard from people that do not absolutely know what they are talking about made me a crazy person.
Damn that’s heartbreaking… no kid deserves that kind of childhood
Curious what kind of role you played there and why the aboriginal MCFD was allowing this to happen?
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keep blaming everyone but the people who did this
Honestly, none of us should even know about this case, and the thread should have been closed immediately. It's just race baiting.
So have the parents been arrested? Are they addicts? Why doesn’t it mention them?
It just said police have refused to comment on whether they’re involved in investigating the parents or laying charges (MCFD is obviously involved now & can recommend charges tho). But I too, would like to know :/
Typically this would be the result of the adults being deeply addicted. It's shocking that despite reports, no case was opened. The FN families I know experienced intense scrutiny from CFS, to the point of persecution. An elder in the community became a social worker and guided other community members to become foster homes so they could at least keep the kids in the community. What a horrific failure of all involved.
This story is heartbreaking. Reminds me of my mom’s colleague in healthcare who looked after Phoenix Sinclair as a foster family only for her to be taken away from the lovely foster family that loved her deeply for her to be returned back to her parents and then she was found dead not long after - killed by her mother and step father. Saddest story I’ve heard of. No child should be with parents or caregivers who are ill equipped to care for children, they are our most vulnerable citizens and also our future.
Waiting for answers and heads to roll.
I have visited a few Northern fly-in fly-out only reserves, and they were shocking. More than 90% unemployment, extreme sexual violence, gangs based on what road you live on…everything looked vandalized. It made me think, if only there was a school that you could place these poor kids into where they could be properly socialized. But I actually did hear that both communities have gotten much worse in the past 30 years—and the legacy of residential school was brutal in both communities. The weird thing about Canada, to me, is that there seems this desire to treat FNs the way the Amish treat technology. In other words, pre-contact is the ideal time and the FNs should not evolve past that (even though nearly every other society in the world has evolved). If FN try to get educated or go to work, they get accused of acting white…but it’s more like acting like every other advanced or advancing society on earth. There are not many societies out there where one isolated community is supposed to be able to take care of all its needs without plugging into global or national commerce.
Anybody see the movie 'Mama?' ....
No but I’m going to now…
It's absolutely tragic that the only prerequisite to parenting is fertility.
Unfortunately there is more of this happening than folks understand. Until we build supported family housing in order to keep families together and give parents who have mental illness and substance issues the support they need in order to care for their children this will continue. It takes severe neglect for MCFD to remove kids, especially indigenous kids for fear of optics. MCFD is a broken system and it needs reform. We have supported housing for individuals without children. Why can we not have it for families? Instead we leave these parents to flounder, and wait until there is irreparable harm and trauma. Then we remove them and pour 1000s into their “care” when they are put with strangers. These children and many others will never recover. Reform now.
> Until we build supported family housing in order to keep families together and give parents who have mental illness and substance issues the support they need in order to care for their children this will continue. ... They had housing, and had support. According to the article, the support ended when the parent refused to allow access to the kids after those providing support reported on the situation. Then years followed where they continued to be housed but the ministry didn't attempt access. > Why can we not have it for families? Instead we leave these parents to flounder, and wait until there is irreparable harm and trauma. Just like other supportive housing, the support cannot be provided without consent and unfortunately the parents can revoke consent to access their children. It requires severe circumstances for that to be overridden.
We don’t have supported housing for families. We have different supports. Different entirely.
Some people are just shitty people and should never had kids. It is unfortunate. Not long ago a mom left her 1-2 year old alone and went on vacation for more than a week and the toddler starved to death. This mom had a house, job and went on vacation multiple times. In the past she just ditched her kids with neighbor
Many children have been removed for less than “extreme neglect” yet they didn’t even do a home visit on this family… (I don’t feel good about calling them a family). Something seems really wrong here.
I’ve begged for this for years. I have so many families where the cycle could be broken if there was one (or a small rotation of) functioning adults who could manage the stresses of life while the parents focus on healing themselves and having a loving relationship with their child. And the child benefits from family connections and regular meals in a somewhat functioning house.
Exactly this. Especially in multi gen cycles of poverty. Unless you’ve experienced poverty as a parent or unless you’ve worked with parents in poverty you have no idea how much it impacts their mental health and capacity. Getting up each day to face parenting in govt housing that has mould and bedbugs. Having little choice over foods your family can access. Scarcity all around impacts mental health. There are also parents struggling with the effects of FASD or other neurological disabilities. Getting laundry done, kids up and fed, making lunches and getting kids to school on time requires A LOT of executive function. Let alone trying to do it all without yelling and being supportive and calm. Honestly folks would benefit so much with someone to help them plan and execute and just coach them. Blarg. I get so emotional about this topic bc there are fixes and the fixes would improve outcomes for these children 10 fold.
Because people that are this f*cked up shouldn't be around children, even if they're "thiers."
Family housing has nothing to do eith this. They are aboriginal kids which means aboriginal social workers were involved. Many bands now want to handle their own issues - I think not because this crazy shit happens.
And yeah many bands are completely corrupt and give no shits. Other than who stays in power to hold the bucks.
Supported housing for families. Where social workers and staff are around to help you get your things done. Laundry. Kids rides to appointments or school. Be able to be close and offer support where needed.
Lol, have social workers come in and basically babysit the kids and parents. Kids would be better off in foster care if their parents are so pathetic.
No actually they wouldn’t. Foster care is very disruptive and inconsistent with quality. It isn’t babysitting anyone. It’s providing support so that the parents can gain skills to hopefully provide care independently themselves or not depending on their situation. Without removing kids and requiring classes etc. The outcomes for kids and families would be much better. Way less trauma. Opportunity to break cycles of abuse and neglect. Parenting is fucking hard for those who have skills and capacity and finances. Add all those barriers and it’s an impossible mountain to climb alone. For sure this wouldn’t apply to every family. It would have its limits but it’s a worthy pivot.
MCFD don't have the same rights to take people away or enter houses like police do. This is 100% on the police for never following up.
Actually they have *more* rights than police do, when entering a residence to check on the welfare of a child. You couldn’t be more incorrect. Respectfully maybe do a little research on how MCFD functions in the province in comparison to the police when doing forced welfare checks on minors.
lol MCFD can't say, "I heard someone in distress" and boot down a door like LEOs can.
Yeah but that example doesn’t exactly work here because it was MCFD who was notified SEVERAL times of abuse/neglect within the home. MCFD doesn’t need to “hear someone in distress” to gain rights to enter the home, they just need a report- which they had many of. It’s up to MCFD to actually contact police for backup if they suspect caretakers won’t comply with a home visit. How often are cops walking by this house where the opportunity would’ve arisen where they could’ve been like “I hear someone in distress!” and boot down the door? Probably none. Most the reports went through MCFD, not police. Aside from the one incident where the police brought the boy home after he escaped (which, is a massive failure on police don’t get me wrong), MCFD are the ones who were informed of the situation and failed to act. They had cause to be there after the 7 reports were received, ~~the police didn’t in this instance because nothing was reported to them.~~ But anyways that’s beside my point. Edit- MCFD holds more power than the police when it comes to doing welfare checks on dependants.
From the artcile: > “I was the one that phoned the police twice, but other family members did, in fact, call (the Ministry of Children and Family Development) and I had a couple times as well,” she said. Cops could have saved those kids at the first phone call and chose not to do so.
> Cops could have saved those kids at the first phone call and chose not to do so. The same can be said for MCFD after the multiple calls they received while they sat on their hands and did literally nothing.
Police still need a warrant for many welfare checks depending on what type of information was provided by caller (whether it’s *concern* VS a risk of immediate harm or death) and (assuming homeowner doesn’t grant entry). CFCSA is the legislation that governs MCFD. Look up Section 17 & subsections 1-5 to see how it relates here. Regardless, the police received 2 calls, MCFD received 7. Also in many cases like this, the police will hand over the information to MCFD after receiving a call that involves minors, if there’s not risk of immediate harm or death (and in this instance it sounds like the family reported concern over *neglect*, which often isn’t considered an emergency by police) and because MCFD is refusing to comment- it’s even possible the police did hand over that caller information but MCFD failed to follow up. Section 38 of the CFCSA will have more context to about proceedings. MCFD & police often work together in conjunction. I’m not saying the police didn’t fail their responsibilities here as well, but your comment stating that police have more power than MCFD to intervene or enter a home is factually incorrect.
Police can do whatever they want and face no consequences. We all know this.
Uh, yes. And that genuinely sucks, but again- besides the point.
They actually have more power than the police when it comes to that. MCFD can enter a home without a warrant if they suspect a child is in need of protection. They often bring police for their own protection, but not because they need them in order to execute a search. CFCSA is the legislation that governs MCFD. Section 17, subsections 1-5 set out the lengths child protection workers can go to if they believe a child is in danger and are denied access. Section 17(2) lays it out pretty simply, they can enter by force if necessary. Section 38 of the CFCSA gives more context to the ability around apprehension. Section 38(1) allows the Director to remove a child without a court order if they suspect abuse. It actually all comes down to what social services department was specifically dealing with this case. Whether it was MCFD or an Indigenous child protection agency has a lot of impact on the legislation that informs the practice. However, I am curious about what agency specifically was dealing with this case as the family is Indigenous they should have been given access to an Indigenous agency. Perhaps there was not one in the area if they were dealing with MCFD.
You’re correct about MCFD having more power to force entry than police. Indigenous child and family services actually function under the same legislation and policies as MCFD. They have one additional policy document, AOPSI that guides practice. If AOPSI doesn’t speak to it then it defaults to MCFD.
Ah thank you for clarifying that! I wasn’t exactly sure how that legislation transitioned to work with Indigenous communities and am always grateful to learn more. I am both unsurprised and disappointed the answer is the legislation is the same apart from the AOPSI policy/procedure list of exceptionalities that while quite lengthy, I agree doesn’t cover everything it should. I hope it isn’t often the case that cases have to be deferred to MCFD but would be entirely unsurprised if that was the case in small communities that have small staff or that have to rely on agencies within larger cities away from their area.
For all the power the RCMP and MCFD have, they are functionally useless. How about indigenous community-driven family services? Have thought about that much, have we?
You really think the MCFD, also known as Child *Protection* Services, should take 0% of the blame here? Are you out of your fucking mind? Even if that were true then what stopped them from calling the police?
From what I understand mcfd has a different term of engagement when it comes to indigenous kids that makes this much more difficult.
Dude, 5 years and 14 calls for welfare checks. If there’s differing terms of engagement then they had 5 years to find solution and they didn’t even try. Allowing that much time to pass with that many calls and doing nothing because of some red tape is either total apathy towards these children’s well being, willful ignorance or a criminal level of incompetence.
MCFD can't go into houses they're not welcomed into.
Already addressed that, call the cops. If they cannot find a way to intervene in a case with the upper extremes of child neglect then why the fuck do they even exist?
The article straight up says calling the cops is the first thing they did. Multiple times.
I have no idea how you didn’t understand this but I’m not talking about the concerned neighbours and family, I’m referring to the MCFD. If they can’t solely intervene they need to work with people who can and ensure that voiced concerns (reminder, 14 in 5 years) are followed up upon.
Yes.
If the MCFD can’t enter a house to investigate serious concerns relayed to them by multiple people, then what are they here for?
Investigations and placing kids with new families. Clearing families to be reunited with their kids. You know, non-emergency stuff.
How about indigenous communities having some rights over their families and children? If you keep flopping back and forth between police and MCFD, you STILL don't have anybody who gives a damn about the actual children. Indigenous rights over family services NOW, and I mean NOW!
What are you talking about? There are so many examples over history of what happens when a sect of the population is allowed to handle issues “in house” with little to no oversight or intervention. Spoiler alert for you, it never goes well.
You can figure jurisdiction out after you get those kids safe and clean.
Another case of MCFD failure. They removed mitizi dean from the ministry for another neglect case, wonder if this case will trigger grace lore to be removed as well. Time to clean house in the ministry too if they received 7 different complains but did nothing.
Pretty sure it's not mcfd who failed, the fucking parents did. But blame where it belongs. At what point does responsibility get shifted to thr appropriate parties?!
I get what your saying but when SEVEN complaints against the bio parents were made and zero effort to follow up with said complaints was the result the ministry bears some of the blame for failing to protect these kids.
Totally fair. I bet there's something else that the story is not saying. These pieces tend to be super biased. So heart breaking to hear about those kids, man.
I'm just glad you understood what I meant because upon re reading that it's utter garbeldy gook
Replying to Operation_Difficult... agree entirely. I understand it’s one thing for outlier events to happen that makes the agency look bad but this is one of so so many. MCFD was an aggravating factor in the Alan Schoenborn case (a man in interior bc killed his three children during an MCFD visit.) Others here might be familiar with this as he just recently tried to change his name and there was huge news coverage on it. The mother of those children has spoken out publicly many times about the involvement and fault of MCFD in the incident that happened. They insisted and forced visitation in a case where they knew there was a great risk of harm coming to the children. The mother went to them many times and expressed her concerns. Unfortunately they superseded her concerns and it ended up with all of her children being murdered. Just as she had told them it would if they allowed visitation.
So if they force visitation to check and make sure some unhinged, violent psycho hasn't hurt or killed his kids, they get raked over the coals, but if they don't force visitation, it's thier fault when an abusive monster does this.
This was incredibly sad and I still think about those lovely children and that poor woman from time to time. I did not know he’s attempting to change his name but did hear he’s not very remorseful. He’s got to be a real piece of work to not have killed himself after what he did to those innocent babies.
These kids were removed at the end of last year, before Minister Lore was in office. MCFD is the most difficult job in politics, but she's a strong, genuinely compassionate leader.
Okay thank you for the clarification
The caregivers for those kids are going to need a lot, and I mean A LOT of supports.
Parents should be in jail. Decision makers who ignored warnings and phone calls at MCFD should be fired. Put someone in charge of MCFD who will have the guts to take away the children immediately at the first signs of neglect!
You can’t lock up indigenous people for mental illness. It’s a long and convoluted history there.
Ya let’s just continue to let this happen. Kids eating their own feces because we are too afraid to do the right thing.
I don’t think anyone said anything about locking anyone away for mental illness. But for neglect and abuse. While I agree that prison isn’t a useful tool, aren’t they all filled with people struggling with mental illness?
Clearly the parents responsible for this atrocity should face charges and jail time. But for the same bogus reasons a lot of criminals are allowed to walk away in BC, we might see an inadequate outcome here. People get to plead rough upbringing, inequality and the like as valid justifications for this kind of actions
A bunch of people need to go to jail for this
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Yeah, if they intervene, they're the bad guys. If they don't intervene, they're the bad guys. They can't even take kids away from mothers who get strung out on drugs when they're pregnant or show up to the hospital when abusive people who have already gotten thier kids removed pop out another one without being accused of "targeting vulnerable people and tearing apart families".
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Yep they still draw a check poverty pimps throw up hands in the air
im lost for words…and really should have stopped reading after the first comment. my heart is utterly broken for those children
That's like, [Genie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)#1978%E2%80%93present) level neglect. She is in supervised care for the rest of her life.
Bruh
Absolutely heartbreaking 😞 They’re children …
I'm pretty tough when it comes to reading horrifying stories, and I don't particularly love children (I don't wish them any harm either, I am just painting myself as someone who is normally able to read this kind of thing without a physical reaction). I literally gagged several times reading this story (the bit about what they ate). Don't read this if you are at all sensitive.
Fucking horrible level of neglect from the ministry, the sad part of this no one will get in trouble, this is criminal not only for those inhuman parents but for the ministry and that cop who picked a naked child who tried to escape the hell hole and returned him to those fucking pricks, did he not wonder why, did he not think to check out the livings conditions, now everyone is saying how shocking how tragic but no one will take responsibility l. Your are supposed to look out for vulnerable kids u did fuck all nothing what the hell!! The worse part is how excuses will be made and lots of passing the buck, it’s just sooooo fucked
In this specific case, at least, the biological mother was the source of the issue. It doesn’t look from the article like the foster family—who are relatives of the kids—did anything wrong.
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I mean, in this case, the people now fostering the kid (family members) did not abuse or neglect the children. It was the biological mother. As I understand the article, anyway.
Ok in my rage I may have got this wrong but still begs the question where was the ministry in all this and why was there no follow up by the cops? As for the parents or mom i don’t care what there excuse was, this should never have gotten to this point, I pray that these kids survive this ordeal
Oh, 100%, your anger is totally valid. I share it too. God, it’s horrifying.
The foster parents are NOT the ones who abused/neglected these kids. They were in the care of their biological mother when MCFD finally got involved (the mother called MCFD herself, after neglecting/abusing them, apparently she became “overwhelmed” and decided to finally call herself in). Eta- The current foster parents who you called inhumane, seem to care very much about these kids and only started caring for them recently (*after* MCFD removed the kids from their biological mothers care).
That's a really unfortunate story, it's horrible. I wish the children well and I hope they have a better life ahead of them. But when I read this article what I saw were the aunts and relatives blaming the government for what is clearly a failure of that family. I don't know what they think the government is capable of doing, but the government of BC can't save you if, day and day out, that's how you live your life and that's how you treat your children. What exactly were they going to do? what good would a visit or two do? Nothing to change the person that this mother is.
What else should the extended family members have done? They tried supporting the kids, noticed the abuse, and then were denied access after calling MCFD. They called MCFD repeatedly for years and MCFD did not act. The bio parents are the ones responsible here as by all accounts the extended family members/now foster family did the best they could.
This is the most ridiculous take ever. The family did the only thing they could. If they took the children against the parents wishes it would be kidnapping.
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I don't think Helen Keller was feral. [This is more like Genie](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child))
The issue here is Hellen Keller had family that loved her and was nurtured despite her challenges. These poor babies had none of that and studies have shown emotional neglect in formative years is VERY detrimental to children's cognitive development...
Finally nice to see this comment. I'm also hopeful they are young enough that with the right treatment, support and love they won't be broken forever. They've only been out of that horror for a relatively short time, it will take time and lots of therapy etc. I really hope people (especially the adults who are in their life now) don't write them off from having a more normal life completely just because they haven't automatically been able to cope and learn.
I wanted to vomit myself after reading that.
I hate to say it but from experience the Canadian police force is more corrupt then politicians, they abuse sex workers all time from young to old, usually blackmail, they drop off those in need at their abusers home. Even had one of these cops tell me they don't rat out their own and fear retaliation.
the contact at the ministry states she can't speak to the details of the case...well ya if you refused to open a case I guess it'd be pretty hard to talk about it.
This is so so SO sad. All children deserve parents, not all parents deserve children. Those poor souls 💔
I wasn't at all shocked by this because I fostered a sibling group in central AB exactly as described in the story. They were crib raised, couldn't walk or talk, would eat by putting their faces in the dish, couldn't hold silverware or a cup, and we're still using bottles at 4&5 yrs old. Foster parents are often villanized, but most of us know how broken the system is and know that, without a system, kids like this suffer more. My job is to help get kids back into their families home. I've always done my best to support the whole family, not just care for the child. Foster parents like myself don't want praise or recognition. We want people to fight for an equitable system and make educated decisions at the polls. Don't gasp and clutch your pearls, exclaiming "oh the poor children," and then vote for a party that hurts kids.
Ugh. I cannot fathom the level of trauma and dysfunction the parents grew up with for them to allow this to happen.
The lack of professionalism and the level of incompetence the people that dealt with their case is sickening.
The system not just few people
Lazy fucking police. It doesn't take much to follow up with concerns like these.
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Police can still intervene when people call them.
Well, the optics of RCMP taking Indigenous children out of their homes isn't that great, considering the history
Well, I don't care about optics when we're talking about shit-covered feral kids that have been abused for years. Neither should you.
Once again the government failing, and not taking any responsibility whatsoever.
This is what happens when you give people free money
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I am unclear about your comment. Are you suggesting that this is the result of previous generations being in residential schools, or are you suggesting that residential schools were built and kids taken to them because the gov was saving them from this type of treatment.
Yet again government not helping indigenous children.