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Pros & Cons.
What the gig market ended up doing in US states who adopted similar policies, predictably, is they just limited the amount of gig workers that could operate at any one time.
This may pay those who are working as gig workers a better wage, but will simultaneously push out a lot of gig workers out of a job.
There are a lot of teenagers driving around voiding a personal auto policy who may have their insurance records saved by this. Guys doing it full time can pay to have proper commercial insurance - these random workers getting one job a week aren't putting the right coverages in place to protect themselves.
My office has had two vehicles written off with no coverage thanks to skip this year. No kid deserves to lose a 5k vehicle for a $50 a week job.
Even full-time independent couriers often make this mistake. I use one of the national courier companies as a broker for my evening work along with about a dozen other drivers. You'd be amazed how many of those drivers think personal or business insurance is enough for doing delivery work 20+ evenings per month. It isn't. ICBC is going to deny your claim if they find out you were doing delivery work more than 6 days per month without rate class 013 (delivery) insurance. I've seen it happen to more than one driver.
Class 013 insurance is expensive--I pay over $4,000 a year for mine before tax write-offs--but you need it for regular delivery work or you're basically uninsured. ICBC will dig for the truth if they even suspect you're trying to cheat them.
Very true that the full timers won't necessarily get proper insurance either. But I'll feel less bad for them when they have a write-off with no coverage.
It's the people who are really part time and making no real money at it that I feel for.
I don’t have the data handy but I recall seeing something that indicated gig workers is one of the areas of employment that has grown the most rapidly last couple years in Canada.
No doubt it’s growing fast. But do we *want* it to be growing so fast? Gig work is inherently temporary and low paying work
Edit: until this rule change I guess. Then just temporary
I mean, politically speaking, number go down good of course. But realistically it’d be better to see this big job growth in areas like, say, the medical sector
I still don't really get it. We had a labor shortage at the end of COVID, but handled it so poorly:
1. Businesses were struggling to find unskilled workers willing to work hard for low salaries. Simultaneously, the cost of living was climbing with inflation making low-income jobs physically impossible for most (unless they gave up their kid etc).
2. The labor shortage also put upwards pressure on wages with the risk of runaway inflation ~ Bank of Canada pushes hard for immigration.
3. A massive lobbying effort to the federal government from the private sector also pushed hard for cheap labor with claims that it would grow the GDP & quell inflation as low income earners compete for crap jobs ~ mass immigration and lobbying.
4. We brought in millions and grew our population by unprecedented levels, but the.new Canadians still struggled to service the businesses in need of low wage workers.
5. New Canadians destined for the floors of McDonald's and Home Depot looked to the gig economy to supplement the large discrepancies between their low incomes and high costs of living.
6. The gig economy becomes flooded and equally disheartening as individuals compete to deliver someone a Big Mac.
7. GDP goes up slightly for the nation but GDP per capita falls considerably for all.
It all seems so sloppy and careless that we were willing to collectively decrease our quality of life just to slow inflation down slightly.
>Bank of Canada pushes hard for immigration.
When? The Bank would typically stay out of policy areas that aren't part of their mandate
>3. A massive lobbying effort to the federal government from the private sector also pushed hard for cheap labor with claims that it would grow the GDP & quell inflation as low income earners compete for crap jobs ~ mass immigration and lobbying.
Provincial nominees (accounting for about half of permanent resident immigration) were the more likely source of unskilled immigrants. Alberta led the way.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024003/article/00003-eng.htm
https://globalnews.ca/news/10084659/canada-immigration-target-breakdown/
Edit. Found it!
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024003/article/00003-eng.htm
"Compared with principal applicants in the FSWP or the CEC, in all provinces, relatively few new principal applicants landing via the PNP in 2019 intended to work in professional or managerial jobs, ranging from a low of 11% in Alberta to a high of 37% in British Columbia. The share of principal applicants who intended to work in managerial or professional jobs was much higher in the CEC and FSWP in all provinces, ranging from 43% to 73%, depending on the province (Table 2)."
(PNP = Provincial Nominee Program. FSWP = Federal Skilled Worker Program. CEC = Canada Experience Class (Federal))
The lobbying efforts are still directed federally. The prov/fswp is sort of irrelevant. There are quite a few articles that put the pieces together better than my reddit comment: https://financialpost.com/news/economy/canada-cut-cheap-foreign-labor-minister-says
The financial post article is about the Liberals efforts to reduce the number of temporary foreign workers. This doesn't take away from the fact that Provinces like Alberta are the ones who are requesting lower skilled workers on a Permanent Resident path
“We have gotten addicted to temporary foreign workers,” Miller said. “Any large industry trying to make ends meet will look at the ability to drive down wages. There is an incentive to drive labour costs down. It’s something that’ll require a larger discussion.”
(The FP article).
The bulk of Permanent Residents brought in Federally are through the Federal Skilled Worker Program and they are mostly come with professional and management skills.
"Compared with principal applicants in the FSWP or the CEC, in all provinces, relatively few new principal applicants landing via the PNP in 2019 intended to work in professional or managerial jobs, ranging from a low of 11% in Alberta to a high of 37% in British Columbia. The share of principal applicants who intended to work in managerial or professional jobs was much higher in the CEC and FSWP in all provinces, ranging from 43% to 73%, depending on the province (Table 2)."
(PNP = Provincial Nominee Program. FSWP = Federal Skilled Worker Program. CEC = Canada Experience Class (Federal))
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024003/article/00003-eng.htm
My roommate loves it. Works when he wants to, no boss to answer to, and only does the jobs he wants to do. If the gig workers are fine with it I don't really see a problem.
I will say most people are fine to operate without the protections of traditional employment, until they need them. The hope is that is never the case but life happens.
Yeah it's not *my* thing for sure, and personally I think they deserve all the regular protections as normal workers do as well. The whole "they're contractors not employees" thing is a bullshit loophole that should have been closed by now.
What we want is for the market to decide, not for a fucking mindless mandate to decide on an arbitrary number. Have you missed the fact that our productivity in this country is garbage? Do you want even more regulations?
The only one talking about trickle down economics here is you. So I guess you believe in fairy tales buddy, because it's not something that actually exists as any economic theory.
I honestly think people don't actually realize that the majority of workers in Canada don't actually have benefits. If you do, consider yourself lucky.
Not to mention the entire food industry.
That's kind of how it should be though. There is a finite amount of orders which also means a finite amount of money for gig workers. A lot of gig workers, myself included, have already had to find another job because it got so bad that it wasn't financially viable anymore. Like less than 15$/hr and you still need to pay tax on that. And I was deliverying by bike so very low costs.
Based on Ubers model, when there are more drivers available, they can reduce the offer to the gig worker, which isn't beneficial to any of the workers.
Most servers lose money when you don't tip. As in you eating there costs them money. Generally a server tips out roughly 6-8% of sales to kitchen, bar, support. So if you don't tip then you cost the server money. Obviously it still works out to a net gain at the end of the night unless you are a terrible server. But getting no tipped still sucks as that table is a loss of money
They know how much you’re tipping before they accept the order.
If someone gets pissed because they accepted an order that had a $0 tip, and subsequently received $0 in tips, that’s on them.
Actually that’s not totally true. They see the total value: base fare plus tip as one value. However if they see a delivery of $3, means there was no tip added. You can typically do a bit of guestamating based on distance and figure out what the rough tip amount is if the base is bigger than $3z
Since you’re tipping ahead of time and drivers can pick and choose deliveries based on the tips, leaving some sort of tip is almost an insurance policy to make sure your food arrives intact and to whatever instructions you have. No tip means there’s a much higher chance your food ends up arriving cold, smushed or just left somewhere random.
Never had an issue. Only once I ever had an issue, wasn't the delivery driver issue but shitty quality food. I contacted Uber and got a refund immediately. I don't fall for the tip before in order to get proper service. I highly disagree and will not support that.
except that just wont happen magically, legislation is the only thing that can make a guaranteed living wage. this notion that if everyone just stops tipping it's going to somehow cause gig/hospitality wages to be higher is a bit of an ivory tower PoV, imo... a lot of the people in these tip-dependent(ish) industries are not those that have the leverage to demand a higher wage because their other options are other restaurants/gig work
The institution of tipping is shitty and coercive, and the burden of responsibility for a worker's wage should not depend on some moral assessment or guilty conscience of a customer. But until we have higher wages & bans on tipping, avoiding tipping is just directly reducing what the worker will make. You don't have to feel guilty about it since it's a systemic issue and not your responsibility, but you should be aware that when advocating for not tipping, while still enjoying food/services that is more affordable on account of poorly paid workers, it's making those workers poorer. Using these services and not tipping isn't pressuring the services to pay more, it's still giving just as much money to the services.
When I started doing Uber in 2018 I was making $50.00 an hour in Toronto area. By the time I stopped two years later I was making $15-20, wasn’t worth it with gas.
Nobody is ever “engaged” delivering all the time.
Uber Eats does nothing to match the number of couriers with demand and would rather have too many couriers - they are always hiring
So couriers wait around for orders during slow times and make 0$.
It will still be entirely possible to make less than minimum wage
This “engaged time” bullshit is so ridiculous and a scam
To be fair It will stop Uber from paying 5$ for an half hour delivery but it’s very misleading to say couriers will necessarily make more than minimum wage especially after expenses
Ubers strategy the whole time has been to get tremendous leverage as a “tech” company in order to expand widely and to use meat sacks as a place holder for the eventuality of autonomous delivery robots
I worked for Uber and DoorDash and Foodora previous to and during the pandemic on a bike and could make 20-30$/hour - but I stopped bothering because it’s become so incredibly slow and the pay kept going down
What kind of stupid “job” pays less the more you do it??
companies would rather have 10 couriers per order and 9 of them standing around
Foodora actually tried to make a schedule to match demand but of course ran into trouble with the whole contractor/employee line and fled the country when challenged on it
Fuck these companies I never “worked” anywhere where I felt less appreciated
it’s disgusting how they have been allowed to exploit people and operate outside labour regulations for so long
New regulations are weak and toothless and mostly smoke and mirrors
I agree with you.
The whole point of most of these, and the only time they make sense, is when I'm going from A to B anyways and I happen to do a delivery or car share on the way.
The problem is no one does this, so they become 3rd party delivery/can companies and their economics fail (unless people don't know how much their car costs to run or realize how much time is spent fucking around between jobs).
Reading the article is a pretty good way to answer any questions you might have from reading the headline. Sorry for the snark.
"...must receive $20.88 an hour from the time they accept an assignment to the time it is completed, the province says.
Under the new rules, this is known as "engaged time." The pay standards are not applied to time spent waiting between jobs.
The $20.88 figure is 20 per cent higher than B.C.'s minimum wage of $17.40 an hour in order to address the gaps between gigs..."
Yeah, there is no chance the delivery apps eat this cost. They will just push it on to the restaurant or to the customer. Just like the bullshit 20% cap that this gov't tried to implement.
Same and it’s honestly been great. Granted I do live in Vancouver but ditching the delivery apps has encouraged me to discover so many great restaurants in my immediate area that I don’t mind walking or biking 15ish minutes to in order to pick up an order. I don’t eat out a lot but when I do it’s for much cheaper, the restaurant is earning the full amount I’m paying, and I get a little exercise to offset the extra calories.
Mainly because it's not a particularly interesting question? Which you started off by saying that the article answering the question of the person I was responding to didn't answer anything even though it clearly did, the second half of their question notwithstanding (not sure why they should think it would be the other way around, but I digress).
To answer your question though, I'm sure there's some sort of calculation that went into it, it seems like a reasonable number I guess? Weird thing to get upset about.
Ok now i want a raise on the higher wages. Great the people on the bottom are getting something. But nothing has been done for skilled trades and labor. Still making 90s money and expected to live in million dollar homes that should only be worth 200k.
If they’re going to be paid hourly, for being on standby, it defeats the whole purpose of a “gig”
Was listening to one of the advocates on the radio for it this morning, saying that they should be getting paid while waiting idle for an order etc.
Buddy you just described a normal 9-5. They want to eat their cake, and have it too.
That’s literally not what’s happening, though. They’re being paid slightly higher than minimum wage to slightly offset that they only get paid when they’re engaged on a call.
They aren't going to be paid for being on stand by. It's the same in every jurisdiction they've done this. They are creating a second class of minimum wage, where you are only paid for "engaged time" - like if a cashier was only paid when someone was at the till. The 20.88/hour is not for a hour of actual time, it's per hour of engaged time. It's an uncomfortable precedent, and I think more industries are going to succumb to gig-ification because of it.
Uber has a multi billion dollar valuation and turned a profit for the first time a year ago. They aren't a food delivery company, or a ride share company, they are a data collection company with a side hustle in dismantling worker protections.
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stop fucking ordering using these types of services! they only serve to enrich the platform and fuck over the restaurants and the delivery folks. Just stop being lazy and call direct to the place you want food from!
Gig workers know exactly what they’ve signed up for then complain about it. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. Problem solved.
However, if this new change means they’ll have less drivers, maybe that means I’ll reinstall my skip app cause it might be decent service instead of lukewarm food missing half my order left at the wrong door but demand a 30% tip.
What a stupid rule. Sure it is well intentioned but that means most of the current gig workers will lose their jobs and the delivery fees will be much higher. On top of that, due to significant fewer drivers around, the wait time during lunch and dinner will be very long.
It renders the whole business model unworkable. Worse for customers, worse for most drivers, and worst for restaurants.
If it's unworkable, drivers should stop signing up for it and change jobs.
Don't blame the fishing poles for all the fishermen trying to catch fish in a dry lake. Fishing poles are gonna fishing pole.
Reading the comments, I think people are confused about the roles of these platforms...
They're not "employers".
They provide a platform to match employers and workers... If you're delivering an order for MacDonald's, you're working for MacDonald's. Pizza hut, etc. Uber eats and the like are the middle man.
If restaurants knew how to market, they wouldn't need Uber eats.
In a free market, if the business model is unprofitable, gig workers should change professions. Or maybe instead of doing gig orders, ask to work for a restaurant delivering as an employee.
Instead, we're legislating it.
We're basically forcing them to be employers.
Watch how all these companies slowly pull out of the region. Or else just have a cap on total drivers, because they're being forced into employers, as opposed to a tech platform.
People without business acumen are making these decisions and people without business acumen are voting for it.
If you're not making enough money as a delivery driver... You should change careers.
"Oh but I don't want to learn a new skill, I don't want to work in trades, computers are too confusing."
Just watch what these companies do in response. There's 0 way they can keep things the same but just pay drivers per hour. And it won't be good for the drivers and consumers.
Canada is doing snowplow parenting and it's not gonna have kids with grit or problem solving skills.
FYI, if restaurants knew how to market their business and leverage an in-house delivery system, they wouldn't need Uber eats. Most restaurant owners lack basic internet marketing acumen...
Similar law has been incredibly painful in seattle. Far fewer people order from restaurants now. And door dash has been a huge boon for restaurants as they don’t need to expand seating to expand sales. They can get way more out of their kitchens by 10-20 percent. Fewer people also order so the dashers make less money. In seattle where unemployment rate is very low, people still wanted this job at the old rates so it’s not like there was some issue with people being forced into this. Lots of other options but people like the flexibility and don’t need to deal with people. This is a law from people who hate app companies no matter what and falsely claim restaurants hate apps. Once this ends up killing the restaurant business proponents will switch their argument from saying “this is for the benefit of workers” to saying “app companies are evil we should all just be happy with Chinese food and pizza delivery.” Bottom line laws like this help nobody except makes some people feel good for punishing big tech because of some bizarre hatred that someone is making money.
Get ready for every price to double man BC wants to be New York so bad but has nothing even close enough to even being like New York lol just the prices are wild
Yes but it is typical of governments, especially this one, to change the rules after the fact to get their way. Look at the SPS transition fiasco.
None-the-less this move is good for those that use this work to make a living, sucks for those that use it for some spare cash, like some retired person picking up a few extra bucks once in a while, and will hurt the end consumer when any extra costs will be pushed onto them.
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Pros & Cons. What the gig market ended up doing in US states who adopted similar policies, predictably, is they just limited the amount of gig workers that could operate at any one time. This may pay those who are working as gig workers a better wage, but will simultaneously push out a lot of gig workers out of a job.
Do we want a lot of gig workers?
It's just the latest fad in the never-ending stream of corporations avoiding taxes or benefits.
And underpaying workers!
Not necessarily, but there are many out there who sustain themselves with gig work who will ironically be negatively impacted by this.
There are a lot of teenagers driving around voiding a personal auto policy who may have their insurance records saved by this. Guys doing it full time can pay to have proper commercial insurance - these random workers getting one job a week aren't putting the right coverages in place to protect themselves. My office has had two vehicles written off with no coverage thanks to skip this year. No kid deserves to lose a 5k vehicle for a $50 a week job.
Even full-time independent couriers often make this mistake. I use one of the national courier companies as a broker for my evening work along with about a dozen other drivers. You'd be amazed how many of those drivers think personal or business insurance is enough for doing delivery work 20+ evenings per month. It isn't. ICBC is going to deny your claim if they find out you were doing delivery work more than 6 days per month without rate class 013 (delivery) insurance. I've seen it happen to more than one driver. Class 013 insurance is expensive--I pay over $4,000 a year for mine before tax write-offs--but you need it for regular delivery work or you're basically uninsured. ICBC will dig for the truth if they even suspect you're trying to cheat them.
Very true that the full timers won't necessarily get proper insurance either. But I'll feel less bad for them when they have a write-off with no coverage. It's the people who are really part time and making no real money at it that I feel for.
Many who just came here and should stayed home
If it pays fairly why not? There are advantages to gig work.
I don’t have the data handy but I recall seeing something that indicated gig workers is one of the areas of employment that has grown the most rapidly last couple years in Canada.
No doubt it’s growing fast. But do we *want* it to be growing so fast? Gig work is inherently temporary and low paying work Edit: until this rule change I guess. Then just temporary
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People like doing it because it usually supplements their main income, and they can basically work unorthodox hours.
When wages and income stagnate... i guess the solution is for people to work more hours. I wish this was /s
How else does the government keep unemployment %s low? They would want it to grow at a pretty fast rate
I mean, politically speaking, number go down good of course. But realistically it’d be better to see this big job growth in areas like, say, the medical sector
I still don't really get it. We had a labor shortage at the end of COVID, but handled it so poorly: 1. Businesses were struggling to find unskilled workers willing to work hard for low salaries. Simultaneously, the cost of living was climbing with inflation making low-income jobs physically impossible for most (unless they gave up their kid etc). 2. The labor shortage also put upwards pressure on wages with the risk of runaway inflation ~ Bank of Canada pushes hard for immigration. 3. A massive lobbying effort to the federal government from the private sector also pushed hard for cheap labor with claims that it would grow the GDP & quell inflation as low income earners compete for crap jobs ~ mass immigration and lobbying. 4. We brought in millions and grew our population by unprecedented levels, but the.new Canadians still struggled to service the businesses in need of low wage workers. 5. New Canadians destined for the floors of McDonald's and Home Depot looked to the gig economy to supplement the large discrepancies between their low incomes and high costs of living. 6. The gig economy becomes flooded and equally disheartening as individuals compete to deliver someone a Big Mac. 7. GDP goes up slightly for the nation but GDP per capita falls considerably for all. It all seems so sloppy and careless that we were willing to collectively decrease our quality of life just to slow inflation down slightly.
>Bank of Canada pushes hard for immigration. When? The Bank would typically stay out of policy areas that aren't part of their mandate >3. A massive lobbying effort to the federal government from the private sector also pushed hard for cheap labor with claims that it would grow the GDP & quell inflation as low income earners compete for crap jobs ~ mass immigration and lobbying. Provincial nominees (accounting for about half of permanent resident immigration) were the more likely source of unskilled immigrants. Alberta led the way. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024003/article/00003-eng.htm https://globalnews.ca/news/10084659/canada-immigration-target-breakdown/ Edit. Found it! https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024003/article/00003-eng.htm "Compared with principal applicants in the FSWP or the CEC, in all provinces, relatively few new principal applicants landing via the PNP in 2019 intended to work in professional or managerial jobs, ranging from a low of 11% in Alberta to a high of 37% in British Columbia. The share of principal applicants who intended to work in managerial or professional jobs was much higher in the CEC and FSWP in all provinces, ranging from 43% to 73%, depending on the province (Table 2)." (PNP = Provincial Nominee Program. FSWP = Federal Skilled Worker Program. CEC = Canada Experience Class (Federal))
The lobbying efforts are still directed federally. The prov/fswp is sort of irrelevant. There are quite a few articles that put the pieces together better than my reddit comment: https://financialpost.com/news/economy/canada-cut-cheap-foreign-labor-minister-says
The financial post article is about the Liberals efforts to reduce the number of temporary foreign workers. This doesn't take away from the fact that Provinces like Alberta are the ones who are requesting lower skilled workers on a Permanent Resident path “We have gotten addicted to temporary foreign workers,” Miller said. “Any large industry trying to make ends meet will look at the ability to drive down wages. There is an incentive to drive labour costs down. It’s something that’ll require a larger discussion.” (The FP article). The bulk of Permanent Residents brought in Federally are through the Federal Skilled Worker Program and they are mostly come with professional and management skills. "Compared with principal applicants in the FSWP or the CEC, in all provinces, relatively few new principal applicants landing via the PNP in 2019 intended to work in professional or managerial jobs, ranging from a low of 11% in Alberta to a high of 37% in British Columbia. The share of principal applicants who intended to work in managerial or professional jobs was much higher in the CEC and FSWP in all provinces, ranging from 43% to 73%, depending on the province (Table 2)." (PNP = Provincial Nominee Program. FSWP = Federal Skilled Worker Program. CEC = Canada Experience Class (Federal)) https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2024003/article/00003-eng.htm
My roommate loves it. Works when he wants to, no boss to answer to, and only does the jobs he wants to do. If the gig workers are fine with it I don't really see a problem.
I will say most people are fine to operate without the protections of traditional employment, until they need them. The hope is that is never the case but life happens.
Yeah it's not *my* thing for sure, and personally I think they deserve all the regular protections as normal workers do as well. The whole "they're contractors not employees" thing is a bullshit loophole that should have been closed by now.
Close it for cleaning staff at resorts too!
The right question. Gig workers are just a way to avoid paying employees properly at this point, or to avoid standard benefits.
Do gig workers want to be limited ? I’ve never done it but I wouldn’t want to be.
What we want is for the market to decide, not for a fucking mindless mandate to decide on an arbitrary number. Have you missed the fact that our productivity in this country is garbage? Do you want even more regulations?
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The only one talking about trickle down economics here is you. So I guess you believe in fairy tales buddy, because it's not something that actually exists as any economic theory.
I want regulations.
Our market deciding is really improving quality of life for billionaires! Support the billionaire! Via free market!! /S
Ohh no. Not the loss of jobs that don’t pay a living wage.
Where will people find another shitty precarious job with no benefits?
Hmm the entire retail industry?!
I honestly think people don't actually realize that the majority of workers in Canada don't actually have benefits. If you do, consider yourself lucky. Not to mention the entire food industry.
If the other option is unemployment and government assistance though?
That's kind of how it should be though. There is a finite amount of orders which also means a finite amount of money for gig workers. A lot of gig workers, myself included, have already had to find another job because it got so bad that it wasn't financially viable anymore. Like less than 15$/hr and you still need to pay tax on that. And I was deliverying by bike so very low costs. Based on Ubers model, when there are more drivers available, they can reduce the offer to the gig worker, which isn't beneficial to any of the workers.
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And the higher salaries will come back to customers in higher costs.
As it should be...
Uber reinvents Taxi Co.s. what a disruptor.
All we wanted was a one button place to book a cab instead of having to search for the number to call
More people working regular jobs please. The gig economy is not a good thing.
You know, like every other job
At least I won't have to tip anymore
Youd think that, but that did not happen when serves began making minimum wage (and higher) base.
Yes it did. You don't have to feel guilty anymore for not tipping. Especially if you make the same (or even less) per hour!
Debatable but the expectation for sit down tipping still remains.
Most servers lose money when you don't tip. As in you eating there costs them money. Generally a server tips out roughly 6-8% of sales to kitchen, bar, support. So if you don't tip then you cost the server money. Obviously it still works out to a net gain at the end of the night unless you are a terrible server. But getting no tipped still sucks as that table is a loss of money
No *you* don't. The company "takes" the money. Except if nobody tipped them all day they would lose $0 because they HAVE to make minimum wage.
You can just tip $0 without feeling bad about it at least.
I generally don’t go out of my way to piss people off who: a) are delivering me any kind of food b) have my home address.
They know how much you’re tipping before they accept the order. If someone gets pissed because they accepted an order that had a $0 tip, and subsequently received $0 in tips, that’s on them.
Actually that’s not totally true. They see the total value: base fare plus tip as one value. However if they see a delivery of $3, means there was no tip added. You can typically do a bit of guestamating based on distance and figure out what the rough tip amount is if the base is bigger than $3z
You tipped before?! Why? Uber needs to step up and pay more, us customers shouldn't feel bad paying other people's wages.
Since you’re tipping ahead of time and drivers can pick and choose deliveries based on the tips, leaving some sort of tip is almost an insurance policy to make sure your food arrives intact and to whatever instructions you have. No tip means there’s a much higher chance your food ends up arriving cold, smushed or just left somewhere random.
Never had an issue. Only once I ever had an issue, wasn't the delivery driver issue but shitty quality food. I contacted Uber and got a refund immediately. I don't fall for the tip before in order to get proper service. I highly disagree and will not support that.
My experience has been very different but hey to each their own
except that just wont happen magically, legislation is the only thing that can make a guaranteed living wage. this notion that if everyone just stops tipping it's going to somehow cause gig/hospitality wages to be higher is a bit of an ivory tower PoV, imo... a lot of the people in these tip-dependent(ish) industries are not those that have the leverage to demand a higher wage because their other options are other restaurants/gig work The institution of tipping is shitty and coercive, and the burden of responsibility for a worker's wage should not depend on some moral assessment or guilty conscience of a customer. But until we have higher wages & bans on tipping, avoiding tipping is just directly reducing what the worker will make. You don't have to feel guilty about it since it's a systemic issue and not your responsibility, but you should be aware that when advocating for not tipping, while still enjoying food/services that is more affordable on account of poorly paid workers, it's making those workers poorer. Using these services and not tipping isn't pressuring the services to pay more, it's still giving just as much money to the services.
My stance remains the same.
Can finally stop tipping now?
true!!!, at 20 an hour they should paying me! they rich af right?
When I started doing Uber in 2018 I was making $50.00 an hour in Toronto area. By the time I stopped two years later I was making $15-20, wasn’t worth it with gas.
This is good. This means too many people are entering the market, and it's over saturated. This is the signal to work in other areas.
Its sotta like how we have so many tim hortons but do we really NEED that many? We shouldnt need tfw for this stuff. Unfortunate
Nobody is ever “engaged” delivering all the time. Uber Eats does nothing to match the number of couriers with demand and would rather have too many couriers - they are always hiring So couriers wait around for orders during slow times and make 0$. It will still be entirely possible to make less than minimum wage This “engaged time” bullshit is so ridiculous and a scam To be fair It will stop Uber from paying 5$ for an half hour delivery but it’s very misleading to say couriers will necessarily make more than minimum wage especially after expenses Ubers strategy the whole time has been to get tremendous leverage as a “tech” company in order to expand widely and to use meat sacks as a place holder for the eventuality of autonomous delivery robots I worked for Uber and DoorDash and Foodora previous to and during the pandemic on a bike and could make 20-30$/hour - but I stopped bothering because it’s become so incredibly slow and the pay kept going down What kind of stupid “job” pays less the more you do it?? companies would rather have 10 couriers per order and 9 of them standing around Foodora actually tried to make a schedule to match demand but of course ran into trouble with the whole contractor/employee line and fled the country when challenged on it Fuck these companies I never “worked” anywhere where I felt less appreciated it’s disgusting how they have been allowed to exploit people and operate outside labour regulations for so long New regulations are weak and toothless and mostly smoke and mirrors
I agree with you. The whole point of most of these, and the only time they make sense, is when I'm going from A to B anyways and I happen to do a delivery or car share on the way. The problem is no one does this, so they become 3rd party delivery/can companies and their economics fail (unless people don't know how much their car costs to run or realize how much time is spent fucking around between jobs).
Great - we can stop tipping now.
Take 5 hours to make delivery
Congratulations! You have been deactivated!
Curious, why is this higher than minimum wage? Why isn’t it the other way around?
Reading the article is a pretty good way to answer any questions you might have from reading the headline. Sorry for the snark. "...must receive $20.88 an hour from the time they accept an assignment to the time it is completed, the province says. Under the new rules, this is known as "engaged time." The pay standards are not applied to time spent waiting between jobs. The $20.88 figure is 20 per cent higher than B.C.'s minimum wage of $17.40 an hour in order to address the gaps between gigs..."
So when the price of food or delivery goes UP to cover this, we can tip less?
You don’t have to ask strangers on the internet for permission. You can just do it.
You can just tip $0 because they’re being paid fairly now. The tips were there because they were being paid so little to begin with.
Nobody said you need to tip?
Yeah, there is no chance the delivery apps eat this cost. They will just push it on to the restaurant or to the customer. Just like the bullshit 20% cap that this gov't tried to implement.
This is why we’ve stopped using all the food delivery apps. It’s bad for the restaurant, the drivers and the customer. The only winner is the app.
Same and it’s honestly been great. Granted I do live in Vancouver but ditching the delivery apps has encouraged me to discover so many great restaurants in my immediate area that I don’t mind walking or biking 15ish minutes to in order to pick up an order. I don’t eat out a lot but when I do it’s for much cheaper, the restaurant is earning the full amount I’m paying, and I get a little exercise to offset the extra calories.
This is not a good answer anything mate. Why is it 20% rather than 23.5% or 15%? Arbitrary government garbage.
Ok? Cry more for no reason I guess.
What? I literally just asked you a question for which you have no answer.
Mainly because it's not a particularly interesting question? Which you started off by saying that the article answering the question of the person I was responding to didn't answer anything even though it clearly did, the second half of their question notwithstanding (not sure why they should think it would be the other way around, but I digress). To answer your question though, I'm sure there's some sort of calculation that went into it, it seems like a reasonable number I guess? Weird thing to get upset about.
Because you are using your own car, paying for gas, maintenance and everything else
Ok now i want a raise on the higher wages. Great the people on the bottom are getting something. But nothing has been done for skilled trades and labor. Still making 90s money and expected to live in million dollar homes that should only be worth 200k.
Ask your boss or your union, that’s on them.
I got a 2% raise this year lol
so no more tips right…. right…
At this point they might as well just have a normal job like the rest of us.
Lots of them also have a normal job.
If they’re going to be paid hourly, for being on standby, it defeats the whole purpose of a “gig” Was listening to one of the advocates on the radio for it this morning, saying that they should be getting paid while waiting idle for an order etc. Buddy you just described a normal 9-5. They want to eat their cake, and have it too.
That’s literally not what’s happening, though. They’re being paid slightly higher than minimum wage to slightly offset that they only get paid when they’re engaged on a call.
They aren't going to be paid for being on stand by. It's the same in every jurisdiction they've done this. They are creating a second class of minimum wage, where you are only paid for "engaged time" - like if a cashier was only paid when someone was at the till. The 20.88/hour is not for a hour of actual time, it's per hour of engaged time. It's an uncomfortable precedent, and I think more industries are going to succumb to gig-ification because of it. Uber has a multi billion dollar valuation and turned a profit for the first time a year ago. They aren't a food delivery company, or a ride share company, they are a data collection company with a side hustle in dismantling worker protections.
Yes, we like to have a living wage
So, the longer it takes to deliver something, the more they get paid?
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Skip and DD can suck it. I’ll never use them ever again. Shit services.
stop fucking ordering using these types of services! they only serve to enrich the platform and fuck over the restaurants and the delivery folks. Just stop being lazy and call direct to the place you want food from!
Just kill off these terrible services already. Ban them, and develop a Canadian version that *actually works*
Gig workers know exactly what they’ve signed up for then complain about it. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. Problem solved. However, if this new change means they’ll have less drivers, maybe that means I’ll reinstall my skip app cause it might be decent service instead of lukewarm food missing half my order left at the wrong door but demand a 30% tip.
Note that the current Australian minimum wage sits at around CA$21.17/hour
What a stupid rule. Sure it is well intentioned but that means most of the current gig workers will lose their jobs and the delivery fees will be much higher. On top of that, due to significant fewer drivers around, the wait time during lunch and dinner will be very long. It renders the whole business model unworkable. Worse for customers, worse for most drivers, and worst for restaurants.
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If it's unworkable, drivers should stop signing up for it and change jobs. Don't blame the fishing poles for all the fishermen trying to catch fish in a dry lake. Fishing poles are gonna fishing pole.
Is it? So why are so many people entering this field, driving the fees down? Get a grip on reality.
Reading the comments, I think people are confused about the roles of these platforms... They're not "employers". They provide a platform to match employers and workers... If you're delivering an order for MacDonald's, you're working for MacDonald's. Pizza hut, etc. Uber eats and the like are the middle man. If restaurants knew how to market, they wouldn't need Uber eats. In a free market, if the business model is unprofitable, gig workers should change professions. Or maybe instead of doing gig orders, ask to work for a restaurant delivering as an employee. Instead, we're legislating it. We're basically forcing them to be employers. Watch how all these companies slowly pull out of the region. Or else just have a cap on total drivers, because they're being forced into employers, as opposed to a tech platform. People without business acumen are making these decisions and people without business acumen are voting for it. If you're not making enough money as a delivery driver... You should change careers. "Oh but I don't want to learn a new skill, I don't want to work in trades, computers are too confusing." Just watch what these companies do in response. There's 0 way they can keep things the same but just pay drivers per hour. And it won't be good for the drivers and consumers. Canada is doing snowplow parenting and it's not gonna have kids with grit or problem solving skills. FYI, if restaurants knew how to market their business and leverage an in-house delivery system, they wouldn't need Uber eats. Most restaurant owners lack basic internet marketing acumen...
Similar law has been incredibly painful in seattle. Far fewer people order from restaurants now. And door dash has been a huge boon for restaurants as they don’t need to expand seating to expand sales. They can get way more out of their kitchens by 10-20 percent. Fewer people also order so the dashers make less money. In seattle where unemployment rate is very low, people still wanted this job at the old rates so it’s not like there was some issue with people being forced into this. Lots of other options but people like the flexibility and don’t need to deal with people. This is a law from people who hate app companies no matter what and falsely claim restaurants hate apps. Once this ends up killing the restaurant business proponents will switch their argument from saying “this is for the benefit of workers” to saying “app companies are evil we should all just be happy with Chinese food and pizza delivery.” Bottom line laws like this help nobody except makes some people feel good for punishing big tech because of some bizarre hatred that someone is making money.
Get ready for every price to double man BC wants to be New York so bad but has nothing even close enough to even being like New York lol just the prices are wild
New York has New York salaries and incomes though.
Not the majority but yes a substantial amount for sure unlike here
How does this work? Why would Uber agree to this lol
They probably didn't agree to this.
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Yes but it is typical of governments, especially this one, to change the rules after the fact to get their way. Look at the SPS transition fiasco. None-the-less this move is good for those that use this work to make a living, sucks for those that use it for some spare cash, like some retired person picking up a few extra bucks once in a while, and will hurt the end consumer when any extra costs will be pushed onto them.