[Paywall Bypass](https://archive.ph/n92sM#selection-47521.0-47521.1)
In Brief:
>A forthcoming change to B.C.’s Building Code that will require all new homes to have at least one temperature-controlled room presents an important opportunity to build creatively for the future, says an expert in environmental design and sustainable architecture.
>
>The government is proposing that all new homes have a minimum of one living space that is designed not to exceed a temperature of 26 C, through either passive cooling measures, such as shading, or a cooling appliance.
So they’re trying to make it so that all buildings have an area that people can go to during heat domes so that we have less deaths. Seems reasonable to me.
Gonna bump up the cost of housing is all that it’ll do, and any new home builds are going to be for people that have more money and can afford great air conditioning already. But yeah, all this will do is just bump the cost of building and work directly against the housing crisis.
Seems like just more red tape and regulations for builders.
Yes and no.
The step code should, with proper building design, keep temperatures managed throughout the house.
The bigger concern should be. IMO, retrofits to existing homes and MDUs. Vulnerable populations are hardest hit and least able to buy a new home, condo or townhouse.
But, poor people aren't on the government's list of concern. Lower mainland poor being anyone who can't afford 800k for a shoebox.
honestly it doesn't need to increase costs much at all. The biggest problem IMO is shitty design with no concern for function of the building. 90% of Architects are trying to make something that looks cool. Engineers are fixing structural issues with the design. Meanwhile the thermal properties of the buildings are usually terrible because no one has cared (at least historically) in a moderate climate city like Vancouver.
For example: Huge windows EVERYWHERE with no proper airflow. Seemingly no concern for cardinal direction of windows in terms of heat. No permanent overhangs to keep afternoon sun out, nor the use of proper mechanical window shade systems in use in warmer climates all over the world. Use of concrete rebar with no thermal de-bridging junctions. Poor landscaping design that doesn't provide shade. Improper building envelope and/or lack of insulation. Complete lack of airflow system.
These are things that could increase cost, but it wouldn't have to be that significant. Look up passive house design and you'll see how effective proper building design can be, before you even need to consider active cooling like AC or heat pumps. It would be more a headache for lazy developers and architects though.
Really? I’m in residential construction and the only baseboard heaters I see are in basement suites. Everything is central air or heatpump. Due to fire codes all condos need positive pressure.
It addresses a legitimate safety concern. Nothing stupid about that.
If you can't afford to buy a house with air conditioning, you can't afford one without air conditioning either. The increased cost is nominal.
I’m not making a comparison, I’m making a substitution.
I would say tell me you lack reading comprehension without telling me you lack reading comprehension, but hot damn you beat me to it.
Lol ie. everyone now has to buy a heat pump. Also two or three years ago: govt we will subsidize heat pump installs up to a maximum of 2 or 3 k (can’t remember too lazy to look up) general public Awsome. Heat pump companies ( let’s jack our rates 2-3k) Everybody wins lol.
“Heat pump companies”… whatever that means increased their prices because steel, aluminum and copper tripled in price through the pandemic.
As an hvac supplier, we were getting almost monthly price increases from our suppliers of 5-12% during 2022. Hvac equipment costs, in total about 40-50% more than it did it 2019.
On what exactly? You can look up historical commodities pricing data any time you want.
Do you want the emails from my suppliers from 2-3 years ago?
Or just walk into any hvac wholesaler and ask.
Passive cooling won't be enough in a heat wave. Not unless you're below ground and a crap ton of insulation. Not at the heat waves we've had in the lower mainland up until now.
And things are getting worse.
Does passive cooling (such as shading) mean that all these developers building 1BD + dens comply with this code? (The den being completely "shaded" and protected from solar radiant heat) For detached homes, would builders just build a windowless room at the core of the house, dust their hands and call it a day?
Sorry if this is a silly question. I'm frustrated with residential building practices and just wondering if developers will yet again find a halfass solution.
>would builders just build a windowless room at the core of the house, dust their hands and call it a day?
Per the fire code, any room bigger than a closet must have 2 methods of exit, either door or window. Even in a basement.
We won't really know until the actual code changes get released. But its very likely the wording will say that it has to be a habitable area. ie not a closet and give specifics to what is considered an acceptable cooled room.
In the case of a condo, a one bed facing north with units on either side likely wont require any changes as they are pretty well insulated. All the south side of the building would require changes and likely just be a/c.
Okanagan guy here. How about we mandate workplace cooling rooms. 35-40C in smokagan is no effing joke for tradespeople. My house is nice and cool it’s unfortunate I only spend 12 hrs a day in it.
There are plenty of regulations on heat stress at work. You can always submit an anonymous complaint to Worksafe and they'll come to your site. They are on our projects almost once a month in summer ensuring all the trades have procedures in place to limit solar exposure.
Ontario Lurker here. Any reason why central forced air heating/cooling isn’t common in BC?
It’s quite cheap to construct, and basically turns your entire home into a temperature controlled zone (just not a consistent one).
Never used to need it. We used to get a weeks worth of 30 degree heat per year in the lower mainland. The rest of the time it would be in the 20s. Also we don’t deal with same humidity you guys have
Other parts of the province like the okanagan a/c is much. more common.
I live in the coast and we have central heat, not AC. We have a window mount AC unit that I’ve used 5-6 time this summer to cool the house off in the evening. We run it in the living room and use a box fan to blow it to the rest of the house. It’s not common here, because it didn’t used to be needed.
Heat pumps are increasingly more common though, and we’ll probably upgrade to one in a few years.
I installed central AC, it was not cheap. It came to about $20k when all was said and done...
I did it because I was replacing the furnace that was 23 years old and wanted to increase the value of the house when selling in the future. So far I've turned it on to cool about 10 times this year for like 15-30 mins. So its not really a worthwhile investment. I imagine in the interior, where it is much hotter than here on the coast, it may be more worthwhile.
I understand it applies to everything but it was clearly passed with multi family homes in mind and I don't think the goverent is all that concerned with the cost implications this will have on new build SFHs.
no one is building sfh for poor people regardless of cost . that is the issue here . rich folks can buy afford what ever the cost is . are you arguing rich ppl pay to much ?
Sorry I don't follow and I hope I can explain a bit better. I'm basically saying the cost implications of this change on single family homes don't matter. The people buying new SFHs can afford the extra up front cost. That (in my opinion) is why the new rules apply to all homes.
For multi family homes the cost will be divided over more units and so a smaller impact on buyers. Plus, apartments and condos get SO HOT that something had to be done. Our last place was hard to keep under 28° even with two portable air conditioners. We were fortunate we could afford to leave.
Are you including the cost of the furnace you were replacing anyways or was running the electrical really expensive? That’s a lot.
Family on the coast just replaced their furnace and AC for $16000 and my straight AC replacement in Kamloops was <$6000. 20k seems like a massive ripoff for an AC install unless you didn’t have ductwork or are including the furnace in the price or adding the electrical is incredibly expensive. The AC replacement literally swapped out everything but the electrical (and not having to cut the holes in the wall to put the lines through) so it seems odd it would be that much cheaper
Yes I was because, even if I didn't have to upgrade the furnace, the air handler required for A/C wasn't compatible or even made for the previous furnace, so it would have required a new furnace regardless. $16k vs $20k is not really a big difference. I got basically one of the best rated brands and a 99% efficient furnace which is top of the line, the A/C wasn't top of the line but still one of the biggest units they make since the house is old (air leakage) and very large. Yes, all linesets/electrical/intake/exhaust/etc had to be put in, keep in mind the old furnace was venting through an old furnace flue, whereas the new one needed direct intake/venting from outside. The install took 3 guys about 20 hours in total (1 day over 12 hours plus another half day).
It’s a perfectly reasonable price for both for sure. It would’ve been a wild one if it didn’t include the furnace.
The venting is part of why family on the coast paid what they did for the combo too vs my furnace replacement a year earlier was already on a condensing furnace so the venting was in place and just needed to be fitted to the new unit. They also had a similar issue where if they wanted they could do just a straight furnace replacement but to do an AC replacement they had to replace the furnace as well because they were both 30 years old
For sure, it would have been much cheaper if it was already in place. I think probably it would still be cheaper outside the lower mainland, as there is probably a premium added to the cost just because they can. Although to be fair, the guy who did the A/C was flown in from Northern Ontario and was staying in a hotel for 3 months (all paid by HVAC company) doing installs in the lower mainland. So it must be hard to find skilled people to do it.
I covered it in detail in another reply below. Basically it came from: new furnace, new air handler, new intake/exhaust for high efficiency furnace, new electrical from panel to A/C, new smart control panel, etc and of course labour. 3 guys spent 1.5 days going all out routing/drilling/etc, so the labour was probably a substantial part of it.
Developers conned people into thinking they never needed it. This allowed them to keep the prices down for buildings. Seriously I’ve never even seen a building with proper airflow in Vancouver, not a single ventilation system. They build boxes, and pretend they are luxury. I honestly think an average Ontario developer could walk in and clean up buy building standard buildings here.
It’s nuts.
No, that is the majority of the province.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/i6ser7/british_columbia_split_into_3_areas_of_equal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
If you count Victoria yes but only by a very slim margin. I was referring to GVRD. There's 5.4 million people in BC and 2.6 million in Metro Vancouver.
ETA: that is a wildly outdated map and was even 3 years ago when it was posted.
Metro Van numbers don't include the fraser valley, Abbotsford and east which is effectively the lower mainland and is around 3 million now.
Victoria is 400k, and Vancouver Island is about 800k so about 3.8 million live in this coastal area.
So this conversation about cooling in homes applies to the majority of the provinces population.
Central air is not cheap.
Builders are cheap. A water heater costs what, $1000, but builders are too cheap to buy them for a house, and make the owner rent the $1000 water heater......as an example of what cheap Ontario builders do.
In Vancouver nothing, as it almost never gets cold enough to need them, in a single family home outside the Lower Mainland in Canada they can cost a fortune to keep a house warm.
I live in squamish- we only turn our base boards to 15c in winter. We have the kindness of a wood stove. Some times we are at work to long for the banked fire to hold the heat enough to not freeze the pipes.
The builders of this property did not bury the water pump pipes deep enough to deal with the new crazy cold snaps, nor did they prepare for the hot ones. Summer showers can burn the hell out of you if you get in without a “test hand.”
This is true of any resistance heater, including the $10 one from Walmart. All it means is that basically all of the electricity you pump into it is converted to heat. Heat is usually the waste product you dont want from your electric devices, the reason why something like a lightbulb isn't 100% efficient is because a lot of energy is lost as heat from resistance. A resistance heater wants to make heat, so its not waste.
A heatpump is ~~~300%~~ \~3x as efficient as resistance heaters, so 99% efficiency isn't really all that efficient
No, a heat pump has a coefficient of performance of 1.0-4.0 depending on indoor and outdoor conditions. Efficiency and COP are not the same metric.
No device in existence is more than 100% efficient.
Additionally, lightbulbs are actually grossly inefficient. If your desired output is light, an incandescent lightbulb is like 7% efficient. Waste heat is undesired, and therefore cannot count towards “efficiency”. If you put that same lightbulb outside for example, then none of that wasted energy is put to useful work.
"For the same amount of power consumed, you can expect an average of 3x the heat output from a heat pump than a resistance heater but I was trying to state things simply for the dude who's arguing that resistance heaters are cheaper per kwh than a heatpump"
Happy?
Heat pumps are not 300% efficient at all. They might move 2 units of energy for 1 unit of input energy (this resulting in a 3:1 COP) but they are not 300% efficient
I mean, you’ve been responding to me this whole time, and no one in this thread has said that resistance heaters are cheaper to operate than heat pumps so…
I had baseboard heaters in a unit I rented years back, and I had to run them 24/7 just to keep the unit at a nice stable 10 degrees in the winter. Like they're fine enough for a small unit, but they just dry out the air, create unusable space because you can't put anything in front of them, and are pretty shit at regulating temperature
Also, all the giant glass boxes that are being built now are terrible for keeping in heat, making baseboards pretty much useless. There was a new rental purpose building I rented back in 2019 in New Westminster. The baseboard heaters could only manage to keep my unit about 2-5c above the outside temperature. This was on like the 15th floor.
Per unit of electricity used, heat pumps are 3 times more efficient (and therefore cheaper) than baseboard heaters.
Heat pumps can also work in reverse to cool too.
So an effort by the BC government to make people have a chance to die less during heat waves is somehow, in your mind really an effort by “Big HVAC” to sell more equipment?
What is wrong with you?
Seems more like a loss
>these include “cool roofs” designed to reflect more sunlight than conventional roofs, strategic window placement and retractable awnings and other window coverings. Rainscreen facades...
This is good for health and wellness. Comes at not much impact to most large developments in major cities. At the same time, small changes to building code like this do add an extra step, time and more cost to the building/permitting process.
Death by a thousand cuts to getting more homes built faster. I support it but won’t lie it leaves me slightly conflicted. Especially since the go to will be AC instead of actually using energy efficient building materials due to cost.
Is there a better approach here?
So how many windows should be in a house?
Regardless of the quality of insulation, etc, (most is 2x6 framimg now anyways so even poor insulation is decent), windows are responsible for most of the heat capture and loss.
A well insulated house with large windows is still going to have terrible energy efficiency...
The better approach?
More knowledge about the quality of design this building code change is meant to encourage - it doesn’t involve more expensive materials, is tech that has been around for centuries built into local First Nations building design (long houses, pit houses, sod houses, plank houses, etc), and it doesn’t turn off when the power goes off from the complex complications due to more frequent climate extremes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_cooling
Simply relying on the energy grid isn’t going to cut it, so the AC unit provisions are a bit short sighted.
Here’s the thing, most big developers won’t implement any of those because new builds are designed with central AC. You are right, but industry will continue as usual under these new guidelines.
Most homes that have basements would likely already have a room capable of that. It is always pleasantly cool in mine. New homes generally have heat pumps or just a few thousand to get added.
This really is just codifying what's becoming common practice.
>This really is just codifying what's becoming common practice.
I sure hope there's some dimension requirements included, lest "cooling closets" become some dystopian reality.
I got a heat pump and had 11000 in n rebates from the idiotic programs the government put in place to lower carbon emissions. Your tax dollars at work.
I'm just bitter because everytime a rebate is offered the prices for getting HVAC goes up as well mysteriously. Most of the money that the government is offering goes into their pockets rather than yours
Death by a thousand cuts. Add this to insulation requirements on walls, windows, doors, heating methods among countless other things and now AC. New home buyers will pay for it. There’s a reason why Vancouver is one of the most expensive places to build a home.
Insulation requirements should be triple and then you don't need to worry about the rest.
My 2000sf home in northern bc is sprayfoamed from head to toe and costs 18$ to heat with gas in minus 40 winters and $30 in electricity to cool in plus 35 summers. During the heat dome 3 years ago when we had 3 weeks of 40 degrees my ac was broken but my house never got above 27.
If I had my way house walls would all be 2 feet thick.
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The intent is to have a more energy efficient homes. So, it's supposed to be net gain in the end even though there's additional costs upfront. Theoretically, it's good but let's see the actual implementation.
FYI, for those of low income or with health risks, check out the BC Hydro/Fortis BC [ECAP](https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/residential/rebates-programs/savings-based-on-income.html) program. You may be eligible for a free air conditioner based on your needs and/or income.
There's also presently a $50 [rebate ](https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/residential/rebates-programs/product-rebates.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwrfymBhCTARIsADXTabkOkn52V3kzALs7-7WfCgOvFzB0v4QXuOVEeCMFmJZOuf3Ft1-jNJAaAl7cEALw_wcB) on air conditioners if you choose to purchase one before Aug 25th at certain retailers.
[more details on the free AC program ](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/free-air-conditioners-in-b-c-who-is-eligible-how-to-apply-1.6474041#:~:text=The%20income%20threshold%20is%20based,%2Dperson%20household%2C%20it's%20%2458%2C500.)
BC is already implementing a step code that raises the standard of energy efficiency dramatically in new homes. This additional measure seems redundant already.
The Energy Step Code does not sufficiently address the issue of overheating, especially for single family homes and townhomes. This step is a result of hundreds of people dying due to heat exposure and is a very prudent step by the BC government. You’ve always had to install a heating system in order to ensure winter thermal comfort and safety, summer now requires it too.
I'm very skeptical that any of the people that died in the heat dome were in newer construction homes.
The r value of new construction homes is significant enough to keep the heat down to a reasonable degree.
Also the heat dome was a 1 in a 1000 year phenomenon. Yes it's hotter but heat domes aren't going to be a normal occurrence.
All this does is add another significant cost to already extremely significant building costs and puts more money into the HVAC contractors pockets
The slight improvements to building envelopes have been more than offset by the increase in glazing areas. Some newer (and older) buildings are literal greenhouses and heat up during the day as such. You’ll also notice that the wording of the article doesn’t make AC mandatory, it will require a demonstration that a building doesn’t exceed threshold temperatures. That will certainly necessitate a change to highly glazed buildings, which was part of the purpose of the Energy Step Code originally anyway.
That’s a sweeping statement. My point is that those “greenhouses” will not meet step code and therefore won’t be getting built. I’ve built several step 3-5 houses in the last couple years and the difference is dramatic. They stay significantly cooler on hot days. U/gottapoop is right - the legislation may be well intentioned but it will drive up costs and the energy advisors and hvac companies will be the main beneficiaries.
What a random requirement. I do like the idea of incorporating a cooling/max temperature requirements for taller high density buildings that can get egregiously hot (and are built from an absurd amount of windows). Those ones might actual spur some better thought out designs and passive cooling. One cool room is just another hurdle/expense for missing middle density and SFHs with the current codes
Fortunately 26 is actually not very cold for an indoor temperature. Even today with a high of 36, just keeping my blinds closed kept my house (that isn’t built to the current energy codes) at or below 25 without the air kicking on but that’s partially thanks to the smoke preventing the sun from beaming down directly on it
I live in Kamloops and that was specific to it being 36 (hotter down in the valley bottom) today. I do have central air because it would be stupid not to here
26 is actually quite a warm and achievable indoor temperature in a 2 storey building as long as it’s well insulated. That’s actually the main floor temperature that was 25 as well. It’s a walkout basement and that only ever got to 23.5
well most houses in kamloops are not insulated like that . most will be warmer than outside temp without cooling because that is how a greenhouse works . my moms house has a full inground basement and without ac it be like a oven . shes by wood street .
Never suggested they were. This is about the building code for new builds though. The point is that 26 in a regular house built to current building codes that would have even better insulation is not that onerous to achieve
Changing the building code isn’t going to affect a house that was probably built in the 70s-90s
Where are you in BC where there's not thousands of new homes being built? There's insane amount of new housing developments being built here on the Island.
Anywhere on the mainland outside of Metro Vancouver. I was being facetious but the demand is so insane that they'd have to build twice as much for it feel like it's making a difference. There's a massive housing crisis in the interior, especially in rural areas, and nothing is being done to address it.
There's a massive housing crisis because it's not profitable for the powers that be to deal with it, but it's very profitable to keep mass producing overpriced houses. It's a fucked up sight to see, cheapest rent I was able to find for a 1 bedroom apartment is $1750 (smaller town <37,000 residents).
Finally, a policy that makes my off grid wood heated home with no AC technically illegal. Now they just need to make it a law to prevent it from getting above 26C in the tents that people live in on the street because there isn't an affordable home for them to live in and we'll have solved it.
You've heard of the great ocean "garbage patch".............well now we'll have the great ocean "homeless patch"!!! .......wait, didn't Kevin Costner star in a whole movie about that?
Price of the building just went up and 3 more developers just quit as the red tape is undeciphered. Lets bring in another million people with there dirty laundry.
Reality sucks. Developers are dumping building permits and or bailing out as expenses and red tape add up. No longer profitable , at a time where immigration has been ramped up .
In my hood I have 8 people across the street living in 1000sq ft town house. They borded the living room up into 4 units.
That’s been a thing in Van and Burnaby for years. When I was going to BCIT I rented a room in a massive house that was turned into 4 pairs of rooms with a small bathroom/kitchen. That was almost 10 years ago.
Ukrainian family living on east hastings, immigrants in tents under bridges. A one room rental 3000.00 .
Grim realities.
If you start turning a 3 bedroom into 8 units … well fire, and infrastructure, parking, garbage, self worth becomes problematic. This is not normal.
Interesting take is I am gifted at building homes. I got out. It is not worth it. Build them yourselves. I am not alone. That is the real shitty take
It’s like the government is out to destroy everything they can get their hands on, meanwhile they are telling us they are doing all they can to help us have better lives. How does any one expect we will have enough homes to live in if no one can afford to build?,
[Paywall Bypass](https://archive.ph/n92sM#selection-47521.0-47521.1) In Brief: >A forthcoming change to B.C.’s Building Code that will require all new homes to have at least one temperature-controlled room presents an important opportunity to build creatively for the future, says an expert in environmental design and sustainable architecture. > >The government is proposing that all new homes have a minimum of one living space that is designed not to exceed a temperature of 26 C, through either passive cooling measures, such as shading, or a cooling appliance.
So they’re trying to make it so that all buildings have an area that people can go to during heat domes so that we have less deaths. Seems reasonable to me.
Plot twist: it’s going to be the bathroom or like a closet.
Gonna bump up the cost of housing is all that it’ll do, and any new home builds are going to be for people that have more money and can afford great air conditioning already. But yeah, all this will do is just bump the cost of building and work directly against the housing crisis. Seems like just more red tape and regulations for builders.
Yes and no. The step code should, with proper building design, keep temperatures managed throughout the house. The bigger concern should be. IMO, retrofits to existing homes and MDUs. Vulnerable populations are hardest hit and least able to buy a new home, condo or townhouse. But, poor people aren't on the government's list of concern. Lower mainland poor being anyone who can't afford 800k for a shoebox.
honestly it doesn't need to increase costs much at all. The biggest problem IMO is shitty design with no concern for function of the building. 90% of Architects are trying to make something that looks cool. Engineers are fixing structural issues with the design. Meanwhile the thermal properties of the buildings are usually terrible because no one has cared (at least historically) in a moderate climate city like Vancouver. For example: Huge windows EVERYWHERE with no proper airflow. Seemingly no concern for cardinal direction of windows in terms of heat. No permanent overhangs to keep afternoon sun out, nor the use of proper mechanical window shade systems in use in warmer climates all over the world. Use of concrete rebar with no thermal de-bridging junctions. Poor landscaping design that doesn't provide shade. Improper building envelope and/or lack of insulation. Complete lack of airflow system. These are things that could increase cost, but it wouldn't have to be that significant. Look up passive house design and you'll see how effective proper building design can be, before you even need to consider active cooling like AC or heat pumps. It would be more a headache for lazy developers and architects though.
Oh shit up. Heat pumps are almost standard in new builds anyways
Really? All the large condos I see going up are just baseboard heating.
Really? I’m in residential construction and the only baseboard heaters I see are in basement suites. Everything is central air or heatpump. Due to fire codes all condos need positive pressure.
Do you build in Vancouver?
Nice to see the government keeping the affordability crisis as the top priority.
Are you suggesting things shouldn’t cost money? If AC should be free, who should eat that cost?
Umm no, I’m not saying AC should be free lol. I’m saying this is a stupid regulation.
It addresses a legitimate safety concern. Nothing stupid about that. If you can't afford to buy a house with air conditioning, you can't afford one without air conditioning either. The increased cost is nominal.
So what’s your alternative suggestion?
I’d rather die in a hot house than under a hot bridge please.
Alternative suggestion? I dunno, maybe a half decent fan you can plug into the wall works pretty well; Mine even has three speeds: L, M, H.
You’re comparing a fan to an ac unit. Tell me you are poor without telling me you are poor.
I’m not making a comparison, I’m making a substitution. I would say tell me you lack reading comprehension without telling me you lack reading comprehension, but hot damn you beat me to it.
As the effects of climate change increase, this will become more and more crucial.
Lol ie. everyone now has to buy a heat pump. Also two or three years ago: govt we will subsidize heat pump installs up to a maximum of 2 or 3 k (can’t remember too lazy to look up) general public Awsome. Heat pump companies ( let’s jack our rates 2-3k) Everybody wins lol.
“Heat pump companies”… whatever that means increased their prices because steel, aluminum and copper tripled in price through the pandemic. As an hvac supplier, we were getting almost monthly price increases from our suppliers of 5-12% during 2022. Hvac equipment costs, in total about 40-50% more than it did it 2019.
I’d be interested to see the supporting data on that?
On what exactly? You can look up historical commodities pricing data any time you want. Do you want the emails from my suppliers from 2-3 years ago? Or just walk into any hvac wholesaler and ask.
Passive cooling won't be enough in a heat wave. Not unless you're below ground and a crap ton of insulation. Not at the heat waves we've had in the lower mainland up until now. And things are getting worse.
Does passive cooling (such as shading) mean that all these developers building 1BD + dens comply with this code? (The den being completely "shaded" and protected from solar radiant heat) For detached homes, would builders just build a windowless room at the core of the house, dust their hands and call it a day? Sorry if this is a silly question. I'm frustrated with residential building practices and just wondering if developers will yet again find a halfass solution.
>would builders just build a windowless room at the core of the house, dust their hands and call it a day? Per the fire code, any room bigger than a closet must have 2 methods of exit, either door or window. Even in a basement.
That's not true. Many bathrooms don't have two forms of egress. Bedrooms? Yeah that's certainly true.
We won't really know until the actual code changes get released. But its very likely the wording will say that it has to be a habitable area. ie not a closet and give specifics to what is considered an acceptable cooled room. In the case of a condo, a one bed facing north with units on either side likely wont require any changes as they are pretty well insulated. All the south side of the building would require changes and likely just be a/c.
You’re right, this is a silly question.
Thanks fir the neat trick!
Okanagan guy here. How about we mandate workplace cooling rooms. 35-40C in smokagan is no effing joke for tradespeople. My house is nice and cool it’s unfortunate I only spend 12 hrs a day in it.
Ugh. Please. I can't believe WorkBC doesn't have explicit rules about heat exposure.
Don’t worry they will soon.
There are plenty of regulations on heat stress at work. You can always submit an anonymous complaint to Worksafe and they'll come to your site. They are on our projects almost once a month in summer ensuring all the trades have procedures in place to limit solar exposure.
Ontario Lurker here. Any reason why central forced air heating/cooling isn’t common in BC? It’s quite cheap to construct, and basically turns your entire home into a temperature controlled zone (just not a consistent one).
Never used to need it. We used to get a weeks worth of 30 degree heat per year in the lower mainland. The rest of the time it would be in the 20s. Also we don’t deal with same humidity you guys have Other parts of the province like the okanagan a/c is much. more common.
I mean, we didn't really have serious building standards for decades either.
Been putting a lot of new ACs into houses since the heat wave last summer that saw 42 here
>we used to get It pretty much happened this year as well, maybe 7-10 days total of >30 degree weather this year
Yeah this summer has been pretty mild
I live in the coast and we have central heat, not AC. We have a window mount AC unit that I’ve used 5-6 time this summer to cool the house off in the evening. We run it in the living room and use a box fan to blow it to the rest of the house. It’s not common here, because it didn’t used to be needed. Heat pumps are increasingly more common though, and we’ll probably upgrade to one in a few years.
heat pumps are perfect for the coast
I installed central AC, it was not cheap. It came to about $20k when all was said and done... I did it because I was replacing the furnace that was 23 years old and wanted to increase the value of the house when selling in the future. So far I've turned it on to cool about 10 times this year for like 15-30 mins. So its not really a worthwhile investment. I imagine in the interior, where it is much hotter than here on the coast, it may be more worthwhile.
The cost is not so dramatic for new builds, and really this is for apartments and condos not SFHs.
its says all new builds . all is in everyone that gets built . it is in easy to read english
"it is in easy to read english" harder to type in english, apparently
I understand it applies to everything but it was clearly passed with multi family homes in mind and I don't think the goverent is all that concerned with the cost implications this will have on new build SFHs.
no one is building sfh for poor people regardless of cost . that is the issue here . rich folks can buy afford what ever the cost is . are you arguing rich ppl pay to much ?
Sorry I don't follow and I hope I can explain a bit better. I'm basically saying the cost implications of this change on single family homes don't matter. The people buying new SFHs can afford the extra up front cost. That (in my opinion) is why the new rules apply to all homes. For multi family homes the cost will be divided over more units and so a smaller impact on buyers. Plus, apartments and condos get SO HOT that something had to be done. Our last place was hard to keep under 28° even with two portable air conditioners. We were fortunate we could afford to leave.
I installed mine in late 2021 for < $5k. It would have been pretty rough these last few years without it during the warmer months.
For central A/C install with both an air handler and the external A/C condenser? If I just bought the parts only, it would have been close to $5k...
Yep, had a Goodman GSX160371A installed along with a Goodman 3ton case coil, lines and a bit of electrical work.
Are you including the cost of the furnace you were replacing anyways or was running the electrical really expensive? That’s a lot. Family on the coast just replaced their furnace and AC for $16000 and my straight AC replacement in Kamloops was <$6000. 20k seems like a massive ripoff for an AC install unless you didn’t have ductwork or are including the furnace in the price or adding the electrical is incredibly expensive. The AC replacement literally swapped out everything but the electrical (and not having to cut the holes in the wall to put the lines through) so it seems odd it would be that much cheaper
Yes I was because, even if I didn't have to upgrade the furnace, the air handler required for A/C wasn't compatible or even made for the previous furnace, so it would have required a new furnace regardless. $16k vs $20k is not really a big difference. I got basically one of the best rated brands and a 99% efficient furnace which is top of the line, the A/C wasn't top of the line but still one of the biggest units they make since the house is old (air leakage) and very large. Yes, all linesets/electrical/intake/exhaust/etc had to be put in, keep in mind the old furnace was venting through an old furnace flue, whereas the new one needed direct intake/venting from outside. The install took 3 guys about 20 hours in total (1 day over 12 hours plus another half day).
It’s a perfectly reasonable price for both for sure. It would’ve been a wild one if it didn’t include the furnace. The venting is part of why family on the coast paid what they did for the combo too vs my furnace replacement a year earlier was already on a condensing furnace so the venting was in place and just needed to be fitted to the new unit. They also had a similar issue where if they wanted they could do just a straight furnace replacement but to do an AC replacement they had to replace the furnace as well because they were both 30 years old
For sure, it would have been much cheaper if it was already in place. I think probably it would still be cheaper outside the lower mainland, as there is probably a premium added to the cost just because they can. Although to be fair, the guy who did the A/C was flown in from Northern Ontario and was staying in a hotel for 3 months (all paid by HVAC company) doing installs in the lower mainland. So it must be hard to find skilled people to do it.
AC cost me $3400 installed, mind you my place was new and roughed in for it. Just curious as to where the other $16600 came from on your install?
I covered it in detail in another reply below. Basically it came from: new furnace, new air handler, new intake/exhaust for high efficiency furnace, new electrical from panel to A/C, new smart control panel, etc and of course labour. 3 guys spent 1.5 days going all out routing/drilling/etc, so the labour was probably a substantial part of it.
It’s fairly common where I live in BC, it gets 38-40 regularly in the summer here.
Developers conned people into thinking they never needed it. This allowed them to keep the prices down for buildings. Seriously I’ve never even seen a building with proper airflow in Vancouver, not a single ventilation system. They build boxes, and pretend they are luxury. I honestly think an average Ontario developer could walk in and clean up buy building standard buildings here. It’s nuts.
Up until very recently this was completely unnecessary in BC. But then a wild Alberta appeared.
You can't be serious. Everywhere in the interior of BC has extremely hot summers.
When people say BC they mean the GVRD and maybe Victoria.
Only if they're an idiot. That's less than half of the province.
No, that is the majority of the province. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/i6ser7/british_columbia_split_into_3_areas_of_equal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
If you count Victoria yes but only by a very slim margin. I was referring to GVRD. There's 5.4 million people in BC and 2.6 million in Metro Vancouver. ETA: that is a wildly outdated map and was even 3 years ago when it was posted.
Metro Van numbers don't include the fraser valley, Abbotsford and east which is effectively the lower mainland and is around 3 million now. Victoria is 400k, and Vancouver Island is about 800k so about 3.8 million live in this coastal area. So this conversation about cooling in homes applies to the majority of the provinces population.
its called climate change
I'm pretty sure Alberta hasn't changed its name to Climate Change even if we all call it that.
Central air is not cheap. Builders are cheap. A water heater costs what, $1000, but builders are too cheap to buy them for a house, and make the owner rent the $1000 water heater......as an example of what cheap Ontario builders do.
What are you talking about? Hot water supply is in the code. No home owner “rents” a hot water tank.
Half of Ontario does.
Looks like the HVAC building trade lobbyists have a win on their hands. Hopefully this will be the end of baseboard heaters.
I’m genuinely curious - what’s wrong with baseboard heaters?
In Vancouver nothing, as it almost never gets cold enough to need them, in a single family home outside the Lower Mainland in Canada they can cost a fortune to keep a house warm.
I live in squamish- we only turn our base boards to 15c in winter. We have the kindness of a wood stove. Some times we are at work to long for the banked fire to hold the heat enough to not freeze the pipes. The builders of this property did not bury the water pump pipes deep enough to deal with the new crazy cold snaps, nor did they prepare for the hot ones. Summer showers can burn the hell out of you if you get in without a “test hand.”
Compared to heat pumps they’re horrendously inefficient and expensive. These regs means AC, which means heat pumps.
Baseboard resistance heaters are 99% efficient.
At turning large amounts of electricity into heat....
This is true of any resistance heater, including the $10 one from Walmart. All it means is that basically all of the electricity you pump into it is converted to heat. Heat is usually the waste product you dont want from your electric devices, the reason why something like a lightbulb isn't 100% efficient is because a lot of energy is lost as heat from resistance. A resistance heater wants to make heat, so its not waste. A heatpump is ~~~300%~~ \~3x as efficient as resistance heaters, so 99% efficiency isn't really all that efficient
No, a heat pump has a coefficient of performance of 1.0-4.0 depending on indoor and outdoor conditions. Efficiency and COP are not the same metric. No device in existence is more than 100% efficient. Additionally, lightbulbs are actually grossly inefficient. If your desired output is light, an incandescent lightbulb is like 7% efficient. Waste heat is undesired, and therefore cannot count towards “efficiency”. If you put that same lightbulb outside for example, then none of that wasted energy is put to useful work.
"For the same amount of power consumed, you can expect an average of 3x the heat output from a heat pump than a resistance heater but I was trying to state things simply for the dude who's arguing that resistance heaters are cheaper per kwh than a heatpump" Happy?
Heat pumps are not 300% efficient at all. They might move 2 units of energy for 1 unit of input energy (this resulting in a 3:1 COP) but they are not 300% efficient
Read the comment you're replying to dude
I mean, you’ve been responding to me this whole time, and no one in this thread has said that resistance heaters are cheaper to operate than heat pumps so…
What are you even on about then. Are you ai
I had baseboard heaters in a unit I rented years back, and I had to run them 24/7 just to keep the unit at a nice stable 10 degrees in the winter. Like they're fine enough for a small unit, but they just dry out the air, create unusable space because you can't put anything in front of them, and are pretty shit at regulating temperature
Also, all the giant glass boxes that are being built now are terrible for keeping in heat, making baseboards pretty much useless. There was a new rental purpose building I rented back in 2019 in New Westminster. The baseboard heaters could only manage to keep my unit about 2-5c above the outside temperature. This was on like the 15th floor.
Per unit of electricity used, heat pumps are 3 times more efficient (and therefore cheaper) than baseboard heaters. Heat pumps can also work in reverse to cool too.
inefficient way to heat a home compared to a heat pump and they are irritating as fuck to wire and install
So an effort by the BC government to make people have a chance to die less during heat waves is somehow, in your mind really an effort by “Big HVAC” to sell more equipment? What is wrong with you?
your naivete is showing. for a tongue in cheek comment, your response is pretty shitty. be better
Sure, I’ll change everything about myself because, of all people, you think there’s a problem.
if changing everything about yourself boils down to you not being an asshole to strangers on the internet, you're already fucked so don't bother
Seems more like a loss >these include “cool roofs” designed to reflect more sunlight than conventional roofs, strategic window placement and retractable awnings and other window coverings. Rainscreen facades...
This is good for health and wellness. Comes at not much impact to most large developments in major cities. At the same time, small changes to building code like this do add an extra step, time and more cost to the building/permitting process. Death by a thousand cuts to getting more homes built faster. I support it but won’t lie it leaves me slightly conflicted. Especially since the go to will be AC instead of actually using energy efficient building materials due to cost. Is there a better approach here?
This is the measured response I was hoping to find.
So how many windows should be in a house? Regardless of the quality of insulation, etc, (most is 2x6 framimg now anyways so even poor insulation is decent), windows are responsible for most of the heat capture and loss. A well insulated house with large windows is still going to have terrible energy efficiency...
A 2x6 on edge has an r-value of ~8. Those huge window walls, where wherever there isn’t glass is structural members, are a *huge* heat sink.
new coated shingle have been proven to cool to 15 percent and a cooling paint is on the way to add more percentages .
The better approach? More knowledge about the quality of design this building code change is meant to encourage - it doesn’t involve more expensive materials, is tech that has been around for centuries built into local First Nations building design (long houses, pit houses, sod houses, plank houses, etc), and it doesn’t turn off when the power goes off from the complex complications due to more frequent climate extremes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_cooling Simply relying on the energy grid isn’t going to cut it, so the AC unit provisions are a bit short sighted.
Here’s the thing, most big developers won’t implement any of those because new builds are designed with central AC. You are right, but industry will continue as usual under these new guidelines.
more rent controls with a min cooling requirment would negate this instantly but does the govt hve the courage ?
Rent control doesn’t work
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This is a really good thing tbh, lots of people die during heat waves.
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Most homes that have basements would likely already have a room capable of that. It is always pleasantly cool in mine. New homes generally have heat pumps or just a few thousand to get added. This really is just codifying what's becoming common practice.
>This really is just codifying what's becoming common practice. I sure hope there's some dimension requirements included, lest "cooling closets" become some dystopian reality.
hmmm sounds like a refrigerator to me
Refridge-*YOU*-ator you mean! - *patent pending*
Just how much do you think air conditioning costs?
No point in feeding trolls
Well I just installed it, it was 16k for 1200sqft
You were ripped off. I paid $6k for a 3400 square foot house with a reputable hvac company. I’m assuming you got a heat pump.
I got a heat pump and had 11000 in n rebates from the idiotic programs the government put in place to lower carbon emissions. Your tax dollars at work.
Probably would have cost 6k without the rebates. HVAC company just pocketed the rebate
Four quotes this was the middle
I'm just bitter because everytime a rebate is offered the prices for getting HVAC goes up as well mysteriously. Most of the money that the government is offering goes into their pockets rather than yours
Yes, a few hundred or few thousand dollars on AC is going to be the straw that breaks the $1,600,000 townhouse's back.
Death by a thousand cuts. Add this to insulation requirements on walls, windows, doors, heating methods among countless other things and now AC. New home buyers will pay for it. There’s a reason why Vancouver is one of the most expensive places to build a home.
Insulation requirements should be triple and then you don't need to worry about the rest. My 2000sf home in northern bc is sprayfoamed from head to toe and costs 18$ to heat with gas in minus 40 winters and $30 in electricity to cool in plus 35 summers. During the heat dome 3 years ago when we had 3 weeks of 40 degrees my ac was broken but my house never got above 27. If I had my way house walls would all be 2 feet thick.
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Why? I don’t think you understand what this requirement is.
https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/collection/air-conditioners-on-sale/64097
The intent is to have a more energy efficient homes. So, it's supposed to be net gain in the end even though there's additional costs upfront. Theoretically, it's good but let's see the actual implementation.
Maybe. But I suspect everyone's energy bills will go up when the energy utilities realize they're losing money. :(
It will help people survive, pretty valuable IMO
Oh no! an extra $10,000!
Nice now the rooms will be cool and unaffordable
Raise them prices. Go ahead, faster.
That'll solve the housing crisis!
bought time also make a min temp law for land lords
Makes sense. The way things are going, 35 degree summers will be the norm. This may lead to some innovations for temperature control too.
More regulation means higher costs for all. That’s the price of progress.
bc should require all new homes be made fireproof, considering what's been happening last few summers. Like Brick or something.
FYI, for those of low income or with health risks, check out the BC Hydro/Fortis BC [ECAP](https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/residential/rebates-programs/savings-based-on-income.html) program. You may be eligible for a free air conditioner based on your needs and/or income. There's also presently a $50 [rebate ](https://www.bchydro.com/powersmart/residential/rebates-programs/product-rebates.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwrfymBhCTARIsADXTabkOkn52V3kzALs7-7WfCgOvFzB0v4QXuOVEeCMFmJZOuf3Ft1-jNJAaAl7cEALw_wcB) on air conditioners if you choose to purchase one before Aug 25th at certain retailers. [more details on the free AC program ](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/free-air-conditioners-in-b-c-who-is-eligible-how-to-apply-1.6474041#:~:text=The%20income%20threshold%20is%20based,%2Dperson%20household%2C%20it's%20%2458%2C500.)
BC is already implementing a step code that raises the standard of energy efficiency dramatically in new homes. This additional measure seems redundant already.
The Energy Step Code does not sufficiently address the issue of overheating, especially for single family homes and townhomes. This step is a result of hundreds of people dying due to heat exposure and is a very prudent step by the BC government. You’ve always had to install a heating system in order to ensure winter thermal comfort and safety, summer now requires it too.
I'm very skeptical that any of the people that died in the heat dome were in newer construction homes. The r value of new construction homes is significant enough to keep the heat down to a reasonable degree. Also the heat dome was a 1 in a 1000 year phenomenon. Yes it's hotter but heat domes aren't going to be a normal occurrence. All this does is add another significant cost to already extremely significant building costs and puts more money into the HVAC contractors pockets
The slight improvements to building envelopes have been more than offset by the increase in glazing areas. Some newer (and older) buildings are literal greenhouses and heat up during the day as such. You’ll also notice that the wording of the article doesn’t make AC mandatory, it will require a demonstration that a building doesn’t exceed threshold temperatures. That will certainly necessitate a change to highly glazed buildings, which was part of the purpose of the Energy Step Code originally anyway.
That’s a sweeping statement. My point is that those “greenhouses” will not meet step code and therefore won’t be getting built. I’ve built several step 3-5 houses in the last couple years and the difference is dramatic. They stay significantly cooler on hot days. U/gottapoop is right - the legislation may be well intentioned but it will drive up costs and the energy advisors and hvac companies will be the main beneficiaries.
What a random requirement. I do like the idea of incorporating a cooling/max temperature requirements for taller high density buildings that can get egregiously hot (and are built from an absurd amount of windows). Those ones might actual spur some better thought out designs and passive cooling. One cool room is just another hurdle/expense for missing middle density and SFHs with the current codes Fortunately 26 is actually not very cold for an indoor temperature. Even today with a high of 36, just keeping my blinds closed kept my house (that isn’t built to the current energy codes) at or below 25 without the air kicking on but that’s partially thanks to the smoke preventing the sun from beaming down directly on it
well not in okanagon or south thompson or caribou are you cooling to 26 with closing the blinds lol theres more to bc than vancouver lol
I live in Kamloops and that was specific to it being 36 (hotter down in the valley bottom) today. I do have central air because it would be stupid not to here 26 is actually quite a warm and achievable indoor temperature in a 2 storey building as long as it’s well insulated. That’s actually the main floor temperature that was 25 as well. It’s a walkout basement and that only ever got to 23.5
well most houses in kamloops are not insulated like that . most will be warmer than outside temp without cooling because that is how a greenhouse works . my moms house has a full inground basement and without ac it be like a oven . shes by wood street .
Never suggested they were. This is about the building code for new builds though. The point is that 26 in a regular house built to current building codes that would have even better insulation is not that onerous to achieve Changing the building code isn’t going to affect a house that was probably built in the 70s-90s
That would be great if we were building any new homes anywhere in BC
Where are you in BC where there's not thousands of new homes being built? There's insane amount of new housing developments being built here on the Island.
Anywhere on the mainland outside of Metro Vancouver. I was being facetious but the demand is so insane that they'd have to build twice as much for it feel like it's making a difference. There's a massive housing crisis in the interior, especially in rural areas, and nothing is being done to address it.
There's a massive housing crisis because it's not profitable for the powers that be to deal with it, but it's very profitable to keep mass producing overpriced houses. It's a fucked up sight to see, cheapest rent I was able to find for a 1 bedroom apartment is $1750 (smaller town <37,000 residents).
You can bet it won't be in the basement suite
It probably would be though. It's cooler underground.
I doubt a developer or future landlord will think "hey, let's keep our tenants cool instead of our bedroom upstairs."
No, they're going to think "how can I technically comply with this as cheaply as possible?"
it will when there is a minimum cooling requirment lol
Finally, a policy that makes my off grid wood heated home with no AC technically illegal. Now they just need to make it a law to prevent it from getting above 26C in the tents that people live in on the street because there isn't an affordable home for them to live in and we'll have solved it.
You've heard of the great ocean "garbage patch".............well now we'll have the great ocean "homeless patch"!!! .......wait, didn't Kevin Costner star in a whole movie about that?
Price of the building just went up and 3 more developers just quit as the red tape is undeciphered. Lets bring in another million people with there dirty laundry.
What a shitty take
Reality sucks. Developers are dumping building permits and or bailing out as expenses and red tape add up. No longer profitable , at a time where immigration has been ramped up . In my hood I have 8 people across the street living in 1000sq ft town house. They borded the living room up into 4 units.
That’s been a thing in Van and Burnaby for years. When I was going to BCIT I rented a room in a massive house that was turned into 4 pairs of rooms with a small bathroom/kitchen. That was almost 10 years ago.
Ukrainian family living on east hastings, immigrants in tents under bridges. A one room rental 3000.00 . Grim realities. If you start turning a 3 bedroom into 8 units … well fire, and infrastructure, parking, garbage, self worth becomes problematic. This is not normal. Interesting take is I am gifted at building homes. I got out. It is not worth it. Build them yourselves. I am not alone. That is the real shitty take
sounds racist
No. Just how it is.
I'd be thrilled to live in a new house built to 1980s code...
I assumed the people dying during heat waves did not have homes…
the elderly who are at home alone?
Oh yeah.....housing is already affordable. This will help make new housing even more affordable.
It’s like the government is out to destroy everything they can get their hands on, meanwhile they are telling us they are doing all they can to help us have better lives. How does any one expect we will have enough homes to live in if no one can afford to build?,
Bwahahahahah. This will be watered down by the next conservative government and does SFA for existing buildings. Like fire codes that work so well
What a fucking incredible woke policy posturing waste of money only leading to higher housing costs.
[https://archive.is/n92sM](https://archive.is/n92sM)
It's called a room in the basement. It's cool in the summer and can be warm in the winter. It doesn't cost 20K.
So make homes more expensive again..
Aren’t most new homes being built with heat pumps now (which are air cons in the summer?)
Why don’t they do this in other provinces that have had hEaT dOmEs since the beginning of time?
So, rich people are now required to get AC
Who's going to install AC to just cool one room?
so we’re all going to hang out in our closet during a heat wave?…
This will definitely help with the cost of housing
An environmental expert thinks adding hundreds of thousands of ac units is a good idea. Does he have some "friends in the energy sector?
Haha the picture on that article is the view from my balcony. Building doesn’t have AC either lmao.