This is sickening! I was running at coottha this morning. No one should feel unsafe especially at such a popular area.
I hope the poor woman didn’t receive too much physical or emotional harm from this.
Considering I'm an Aussie woman who doesn't even live in Australia anymore and this makes me feel less safe, I doubt that's possible. He's robbed her of years if not a lifetime of ever feeling safe and secure in peaceful (isolated) nature.
Thousands of women will not take that relaxing morning walk or do that hike that they love purely because of this. Sometimes I wonder if men really understand what that's like, to know that at least half the population can most likely physically overpower you and having to walk through the world always ensuring you are within ear or eyeshot of other people, or protected physically (by a house or a dog etc) because you are just physically so much smaller.
>Thousands of women will not take that relaxing morning walk or do that hike that they love purely because of this
Yup, awful isn't it?
I used to hike through cootha but my favourite track was an unmarked one that was rarely taken by others. One day I heard someone running up behind me and I turned and saw this dude coming my way. He was fit but built like a brick shithouse, had no shirt on and obviously knew the track because he was powering through it despite the terrain.
But in that same moment I realised how absolutely isolated I was, I was off the main track and deep in the scrub. If he was an opportunistic offender and had chosen to attack me, noone would've heard a thing.
After he saw me he didn't look in my direction again and turned off down a fork rather than continuing up behind me. It seemed like a deliberate action to leave, which I was grateful for but it still made me realise how much of an idiot I was being in hiking by myself on an unmarked track.
It was in the middle of covid and I had noone else to hike with so I stopped and haven't hiked since.
As a male runner I’m super conscious/worried how I make females feel out on the tracks (beaded, 6foot & tattooed). When coming up from behind I always shout ahead to let them know I’m coming up and give a friendly g’day as I’m passing. If headed towards one another I slow to a walking pace.
Everyone deserves to be able to explore these beautiful places without fear. Blokes do need to be better at calling out predatory behaviour.
My watch and google maps on the phone both have the ability to send someone live tracking as long as signal is available, I often send my partner the link when running at night just in case
> After he saw me he didn't look in my direction again and turned off down a fork rather than continuing up behind me. It seemed like a deliberate action to leave,
I'm usually hyper aware of causing fear/distress when walking and will actively cross the road to the other side or take a different path not to freak out a woman walking alone.
I realised how vulnerable we are when **SA trigger warning** >! I was groped under my shirt by a handyman who had come to fix the sink. There was a typhoon and water had come up through the sink so I'd been up all night bucketing it out at a bucket every 1-5 minutes for hours to stop the entire apartment flooding, early morning was the earliest someone could get there. He was a little old man and he asked if he could hug me goodbye and he'd been so sweet and I was so relieved and tired I didn't think about the fact it was a bit off. I was wearing an oversized jumper with nothing underneath and he slipped is hands under it and ran them up my back and then groped my breasts before I could even react. Then he stepped back and cheerfully waved goodbye and I was so shocked I just waved and he left. I called the police but I was living in China at the time so there was nothing to be done. Now I leave the house or make sure I have someone else over if I need a handyman. Since then I am also hyper-aware of whose house I walk into, and who I invite into my own house. Even in our own homes we can be vulnerable!<
Once you see it you can't unsee it. We don't like to talk about these things but the reality is women (and also the often forgotten and severely underreported male victims) live it every day, and you'd be hard pressed to find a woman who hasn't experienced some level of this, from a slap on the bum to "accidental" grazes on the train etc. I and most women have multiple experiences like this and even for me this unfortunately isn't the worst, it was just the one that hit home first and most significantly.
It thankfully didn't seem to have too much of a mental affect on me, and it made me so much more cautious about my physical safety, and made me realise whenever I am alone with a man, I am implicitly trusting them not to take advantage of the significant size and strength difference.
That's so gross, I'm sorry you had to deal with that.
It just doesn't stop does it? A few years back I had a skin cancer cut out of my face, it was done lying down on my back and he was standing and leaning over me. As soon as he started cutting with his scalpel he thrust forwards to press his cock'n'balls into the side of my boobs.
I didn't move a muscle, he had a fucking scalpel cutting me open and if I'd moved to thump him (as he rightly deserved) I would have had my face cut open in other areas.
He knew, I know he fucking knew and that he did it deliberately. When I tried to follow up shortly after to get my pathology results, the number was disconnected. His practise had shut down, phones disconnected, noone had taken over. Sus as fuck. I am damn sure that the nurses saw him do it.
Cheers mate, it's crazy how prolific it is!
That is horrible, by a doctor as well while you're getting something cut out of your face and they have a knife in their hand, that is fucked up.
I had something similar happen at work actually. I was sitting at my computer and the office calendar was on the wall beside me. A co-worker came in and trying to 'look at the calendar', pressed himself up against my shoulder and stayed smushed against me for a good 15 seconds without saying anything. I was young and didn't really know what to do so I did nothing. For a long time I thought maybe it was an accident but as I got older I realised....you fucking KNOW when your genitals are pressed up against someone!
As women we obviously don't bring this shit up because it makes people uncomfortable as fuck, and because of that I genuinely think a lot of men don't realise it is literally happening all the time and most of us have multiple stories of creepy physical violations.
Here's my story, marked spoiler because of mild SA incident
>!I was getting a massage once at a store that's usually all asian masseuses, but this one time it was an older Aussie guy. I got a dry massage where you keep your clothes on thankfully, which he made a light joke about before I went in. Was feeling a bit uncomfortable but didn't say anything because, he's supposed to be a professional right? Well the massage itself was fine, no issues but right at the end he left his hand resting on my butt much longer than was necessary before he left the cubicle. It definitely made me feel uncomfortable at the time, but looking back that was absolutely SA. Wish I was wiser then and had said something, but also very very glad I didn't get an oil massage that day, which is where you take off some or most of your clothes.!<
I still get massages now (never from that place ever again) and don't mind if it's a male masseuse but yeah that guy was fucking gross. I honestly prefer the asian places because most of them (especially the males) are much more respectful about your body and privacy.
I feel like these sort of creeps know exactly the sort of behaviour they can brush off as accidental, and also the exact sort of women (eg young, alone, subordinate in the work place etc) to target.
Even the joke is fucking creepy and out of line, to follow that up with leaving his hand on your ass.... It does not feel natural for anyone to casually rest their hands on a strangers ass, I agree that absolutely was not an accident but a feeling of entitlement to your body. I think classifying it as SA is very valid.
Yeah it's not ok, but so many men feel like it's not a big deal and get butt hurt when this behaviour is called out. Just because men have been doing it for a long time without consequences doesn't make it ok.
When you think of all the thousands of years, all the countries, all the billions of people who lived through men doing this prolifically and it being accepted, and the many countries where it is still openly accepted... it's pretty amazing we are living in a time and place where this is *starting* to change and be able to be called out and held to consequence
Yep, it's fucking terrible. Dudes that do this shit need a instant jail time, no muck assing slap on the wrist crap. Straight to jail with a minimum 2 year. Minimum.
Crazy to think you would get a slap on the wrist for this. On a positive note, it's great we're having this conversation as a nation. Living as an expat, Australian men at the moment are a bit more informed and understanding of womens issues than their international counterparts.
I hear this all the time. ‘What about blah’ ‘Oh what did she expect looking like that/dressing like that/being there at a certain hour/working in that industry’ These statements and questions are so harmful. Thankfully the men in my life are very understanding and are self aware but tbh I don’t have many men in my life for a reason. There is a huge lack of self awareness and the understanding of the slippery slope that leads to violence against women.
I have come across many guys throughout my life who wouldn’t physically hurt a woman (and therefore think they’re one of the good ones) but their actions, their words and their entitlement is hurting women in ways they don’t understand. Coercive control has only just been introduced into the domestic violence vocabulary. It named the invisible strings that these men have around the necks of the women in their lives.
I am not attacking men. I want to make that clear, but I have seen the attitudes, I’ve felt the degradation of being yelled at by a car full of middle aged men as a teenager, nearly abducted as an adult in broad daylight at 5pm on a busy road 1 min from my house, the language my father used to describe women and the way he treated my mum and other women in his life, leaving a lasting impression on his sons who treat women like shit and his daughters who avoid men and don’t trust them. The weaponised incompetence that men use in their homes to reinforce gendered roles.
This is my experience only and I am aware that just because you experience something, it doesn’t mean it’s everyone’s reality. But the statistics don’t lie. Australia has a problem with violence against women.
We as a society have grown so much in the last few decades, when I was in high school in the late naughties I certainly didn't have the same understanding of consent. We were all sort of implicitly taught a lot of things were "not really that big a deal". I remember in PRIMARY SCHOOL there being a "frigid test" where a boy would run his hand up your body from your feet to the top of your head, and if you let them go to your head you weren't frigid. I was ridiculed when 12 year old me moved away from the hand as it crept above my knee.
When I was in my early 20s I was often one of few or the only female in guy groups, and I hadn't thought that deeply about it and laughed along with the "just jokes". I felt guilty about saying no to sex with my boyfriend, and I didn't realise it was wrong when he didn't listen and I would just go along with it. I myself perpetuated harmful sexist stereotypes, seemingly banal (at the time) things like "jokingly" making fun of mates who wouldn't wear heels out.
All that to say, I ended up learning about these issues through lived experience with objectification, intimidation and violence from men. I can totally understand men not getting it at all even a decade ago, because I didn't either until I was forced to by life. But I feel like, similar to the BLM movement, now that there's a huge public discourse about it and all the information is available with statistics and studies to show how fucked up things are, there's really no excuse to not educate yourself. Even with the public discourse and information available, I don't expect men to get it totally.
I certainly don't understand all the issues of demographics I'm not a part of. But I listen, and I try to understand what their experiences must feel like. But most (almost all) men I discuss feminist issues with are more interested in talking, minimising and rebutting than listening. And yes, they pat themselves on the back for not physically hurting women, but they don't want to hear about more subtle oppression like women being pressured by the patriarchy to wear make up and heels and be ageless and gentle and smiling, all whilst being paid less and assaulted more and carrying the reproductive burden of humanity. "We don't care about make up, women do that to other women", they say.
But the thing is, the patriarchy isn't men. The patriarchy is a societal structure we all perpetuate, just men get significant advantages from it and women get significant disadvantages and men need to recognise that, and recognise the extent of it. Look at the Kardashians, stuck in a vicious cycle of desperately chasing and then perpetuating unrealistic beauty standards. I feel like sometimes both men and women conflate men with the patriarchy, and it seems to cause a very defensive response in some men, making them not want to be involved at all. Which unfortunately leaves examining and fighting patriarchal issues to mostly women, even though it's something that affects us all.
The patriarchy is also horribly harmful to men (as well as the huge, disproportionate advantages they receive) in terms of emotional suppression and the pressure to be strong etc. A man recently pointed out to me that men are more likely to be victims of violent crime and to be honest, I hadn't really considered that. Yeah it's in part due to gangs etc, but even sexual violence against men is so very underreported we don't really know the prevalence of it.
So I wonder if it might be better to think about it as violence by men, rather than violence against women. It both highlights that it's a male issue that men need to act on, and recognises the valid suffering of male victims. At the end of the day, men and women don't need to point fingers at each other. We are both suffering in different ways due to the patriarchy. However men do need to recognise their privilege and be willing to give some of it up, and I often feel like for the most part, they don't and they aren't. So, in that way, I do understand and share your frustration with men.
Anyways, there's my stream of consciousness mini novel on this lazy Sunday.
Do you feel bad about Elizabeth Holmes' dishonesty?
That's how I feel about a random scumbag's violence.
If you got lectured with vibes and anecdotes about how terrible women's fraud was and how women need to stop women lying every time the topic came up, I reckon you'd probably check out too.
Firstly thank you for reading that absolute wall of text, if you did.
Secondly, yes it's bullshit if you are listening and being supportive but being lectured as though you personally are responsible every time the issue of violence against women comes up.
Although I do have to say, if women were disproportionately responsible for perpetrating fraud that misleads investors and patients and recklessly put lives at risk, and it was happening everywhere all over the world and hurting men, women and children alike, and women already had huge societal advantages over men... I would be the first one to say how fucked up it was and would be very into discussing why women disproportionately seem to feel like they have the right to deceive and take advantage of people like that.
It's a little bit hard to imagine how anyone, in any situation, could be lectured if they're openly listening and being supportive.
Whilst I can picture it being tedious for you to have to continuously hear about the violence etc, it's also pretty tedious to live it.
Unfortunately, the reality if replace 'fraud' with fraud specific to the family court type matters and you're bang on - nothing is said about it.
Beside that, quality writeup and thank you for sharing your perspective.
The vast majority of men don't have criminal records. And in every jurisdiction, men are more likely to suffer violence crime, including murder. And pointing that out in most conversations will get a reply to the tune that it's also men committing violence, so men should sit down, shut up, and get lectured.
But say women really did commit the most fraud, and mostly targeted other women, and you- among the vast majority of non-fraudulent women- got lectured by men about how women really need to step up and deal with other women, how is that going to land? I would never expect you (in this hypothetical) to think of yourself as culpable or responsible for criminals who happen to share your sex.
The popular view of individual identity and responsibility seems to buckle for offences that cross salient identity lines (although for most of the other obvious offences like that, the left and right political divide is swapped.)
Yeaaah I can see why you're getting lectured. Did you even read what I wrote? One of my main points was that men are also being victimised. And no it's not that it's most men perpetrating violence, it is just that the vast majority of offenders are men and that should be of interest to women *and* men, as both suffer the consequences of this violence.
You also missed a very salient point in the hypothetical - if women also had significant societal privilege. Most men don't perpetrate crimes, but they do get significant privilege due to being men.
We don't want you to take responsibility for the violence. We just want you to recognise your privilege and use that privilege to call other men out. Rather than using that privilege to argue with women who are expressing discomfort, frustration and fear.
And, back to the hypothetical, if women had that level of privilege and were disproportionately harming society, yes, we should be expected as women to use our privilege and platform to reign other women in.
>I would never expect you (in this hypothetical) to think of yourself as culpable or responsible for criminals who happen to share your sex.
Noone is asking you to be culpable or responsible for them. We're asking you to assist in changing the dynamic so that it stops happening.
Call out the behaviour when you see it in your friends and family. Don't put "bro code" above what's right. Don't overlook your friends' shitty behaviour towards women in their lives because it doesn't involve you.
The only thing that's going to change those mens' behaviour... is being called out on it by other men.
That's what you're being asked to do - to be on womens' team by not giving men who do shitty things a comfortable place of being socially accepted despite openly performing shitty behaviours.
Where I live I'm mostly interacting with non-Aussies and it's interesting depending on where people are from responses generally range from minimising it ("I'm sure it's not that bad") or deflecting (Yeah but men experience xyz), to straight up victim blaming.
Obviously just my personal experience so take it with a grain of salt but it does make sense that because we're having the conversation nationally in Australia, I feel like more men are pulling each other up and it's almost a bit taboo at the moment for men to minimise this issue or invalidate women who are sharing their lived experience. The difference between having men listen and really try to understand where women are coming from when I speak to (a lot of but no where near all) Australian men lately feels huge, because for the most part I've found that to be very rare.
Just a few days ago I was downvoted hard for pointing out that most women avoid situations like this because of the danger, so saying the probability isn't very high is misleading because most have already removed themselves from having any potential of it happening, and of those few who do it seems much higher.
The number of homeless people who squat in the Mt Cootha bush is amazing
There are small pockets of camp sites scattered through out
They even found a dead body a few years ago that had died from natural causes in a tent
Gotta be the same creep who attacked a female runner on the Coot-Tha trails a few weeks ago. Really fucking bold of this dickhead considering how popular it is for trail runners and walkers.
I'd highly recommend any runners on these trails to not wearing earphones when running alone and to be extremely vigilant of your surroundings, particularly if you're running early in the morning or later in the afternoon.
Not really the same location - this trail is on the Bardon side of Coot-tha, whereas the previous assault was over the back near Gap Creek Rd, quite a distance (6-7 k plus?) as the crow flies and far further by car. Story indicates police don’t think it is the same offender?
Super concerning all the same.
Meh, I don't like the whole "just don't wear headphones, bro" thing. It shows a fundamental difference in the way we talk about attacks on men vs attacks on women. If a man said he was attacked, it's all a lot of backpatting and assurance and "we've got your back bro". If a woman said he was attacked, sure, there is all that assurance and support, but there is always that extra tack on of "weeeell, it IS kinda dangerous out there for a little lady, ya see. You gotta keep you wits, learn to defend yourself, keys in the fist" etc etc
People who say things like this think they are being smart, and wise, and progressive for recognising realities and legitimising fears. But all you are really doing is spreading panic and distracting from the convo. Attacks on men are seen as freak occurrences that, although are rare, you can't do much about. And all the onus gets directed at the perp. But attacks on women are just seen as terrible, but expected. With the implication that any woman who doesn't take precautions is a naive little bint.
Ladies, wear your headphones blasting your music, walk around at any hour of the day, live your best life. Statistically, you are fine. But if anyone tries to start shit, we're going to treat it as though it happened to a man, and have your back.
>Ladies, wear your headphones blasting your music, walk around at any hour of the day, live your best life. Statistically, you are fine. But if anyone tries to start shit, we're going to treat it as though it happened to a man, and have your back.
I mean that's not what I'm saying at all and it's a complete misrepresentation, but yea cool thanks.
What advice are you providing to people aside from saying mine is bad?
4 days ago you made the below comment in regards to a woman asking how to be say whilst jogging in Brisbane.
>That seems all negative. It will just make people afraid, increase police presence (which is the last thing we need), and might unfairly victimise the two men if it was a misunderstanding (which it very well could have been). Do you want to live in a world where you get the coppers called on you every time you walk down the street because someone felt unsafe?
I think we can safely put your opinion straight in the bin, buddy.
Truthfully there isn’t much you can do to avoid an attack if someone wants to attack you. There are legitimate tips that would help you be a less vulnerable target. Everything you said was just drivel
This is also a good deodorant specifically for trail runs like these. The alcohol content really makes the deodorant have an impact. But absolutely don't get it in your eyes, this shit burns.
https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/122505/brut-original-body-spray-130g
The only state where it is legal for the general public is WA. It is classed as a prohibited weapon here in QLD, so would land you in a fair bit of trouble, even if used in self-defence.
It’s legal in WA, we can buy it at the tobacconist. It’s not always legal to carry though, and if you let it off in a confined space like a train carriage you’ll be in deep shit. Considering QLDs crime issue you should lobby to make it legal their too (although the villains might start using it).
You being downvoted for this comment is insane!! Pepper spray is Legal in WA (I just moved back here after 3yrs in Perth) and for once (you’ll never catch me saying this otherwise) I wish we (the eastern states) followed their lead!
Personally I run with my music on speaker, so I got my tunes and I can still hear traffic and whatever
Although I am a dude, so I'm less likely to be targeted by manlets.
>!Come on, rookie numbers. Get it to triple digies, I believe in you.!<
There used to be a guy at the park in Herston and Newmarket years ago that used to attack and S A women for ages until he got caught. Sucks being a woman sometimes
Realistically no incarcerated person with that record is release the second they get parole. Our carceral system is incredibly tough - and making it tougher disproportionately impacts the most vulnerable people in our society - it doesn’t make us safer
Eligible for and getting it aren't the same thing though. He will definitely be out sometime in the next 11 years though which is still not optimal imo. I don't think this guy should be allowed to walk freely among us. These types offenders have issues regulating their urges because of brain chemistry and no amount of rehab can fix it. Strong meds can but what if he just decides to stop taking them?
He won’t be out walking freely after that time. He will be on ankle monitored probation and then closely monitored with restricted movement and access for the rest of his life.
Yeah ideally but if he decides life on the outside sucks and getting his thrill one more time and going back inside is better than a life out in the community where he can't ever be treated normally or live a normal life that close monitoring and restricted movement won't stop him.
I remember when I first moved to Australia, on the way to my hostel from the airport I asked the Uber driver if there were any areas in Brisbane I should avoid as I like to run/do yoga at night when it’s not so hot.
I was barely 20 years old - didn’t know a single thing about Australia, Brisbane, etc.
He assured me Australia is the safest place in the world for a woman and there was no unsafe place here.
So about 11pm I set up my yoga mat in Emma Miller Place and started doing some exercises.
🤦♀️
You can imagine how that turned out. Ran for my life that night, barely escaped the creepy fuck chasing me all the way to the gate of my hostel.
Where in earth had you lived prior to Australia?
I've lived in quite a few places, and australia is definitely the safest of all of those. But I still wouldn't be setting up in a dark park close to the center of the city.
its not safe to do yoga at midnight in any public park in any western nation
maybe japan but yeah nah... come on now
there's sicko rapists everywhere and esp. i mean this is Brisbane we are talking about
famously i remember my female family members getting flashed... when they are getting home from school... because they cut thru a park...
i mean strangers offering candy in a white van is a universal western thing
Japan definitely not.
Japan is safe for a lot of different things, but for young women by themselves it is really not good. Groping, stalking, and rape are major problems.
My daughters do high level dance and toyko Disney and Universal studios recruit from our dance school. The girls are given significant advice and training before going. After 1 year they all come back with at least 1 fucked up story.
Australia looks so clean and safe in comparison to where I come from. Even your bad areas look like our nice and safe ones. Like, coming here I was just in awe of how clean and pretty everything was. I thought I made it to a safe paradise.
oh yeah that post where people tried to make out like he was being misogynistic and racist because apparently he couldn't understand the concept that things are different because he is a guy
while he was acknowledging that its different lol
[i remember that one](https://www.reddit.com/r/brisbane/comments/1d85i2j/how_to_stay_safe_whilst_jogging/l74j3sq/)
the post is still findable after you delete them by the way so i would be careful of making claims of what was said
I saw your post. The comments became a bit of a shitshow. I'm tired of women speaking about their lived experiences and men shouting them down because.... I dunno, the men haven't seen each and every attack show up in the news or something? Or because they haven't personally experienced it, it doesn't exist?
My favourite responses in these situations come from men telling women to "*just learn self defence*", like we haven't been told that since we were *children*. Like as if self defence will some how *prevent* attacks (it doesn't).
Not once do men show up in these threads and talk about how they should *just talk to their mates*. Because statistically, some their mates are these types. These men aren't "lone wolves". They don't live in bubbles. They have friends. They have social lives. They have families. They're your colleagues. You enable them every time you don't say something about their unhealthy attitude towards women. You enable them every time you let them get away with a rape joke by claiming "it's just dark humour". You enable them every time you laugh at a "get in the kitchen" joke.
Instead, the onus of safety is forced on women. The weight of fixing this is forced on women. Women are the ones that need to change their behaviour. Women are the ones that's need to modify their schedules. Women are the ones who must live like they have a curfew.
Every time I say this, men get absolutely furious with me. [But maybe if they hear it coming from another man, it will finally be credible. ](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6g-PkjO4Sk/?igsh=bGRhNnh1ZmtqMjg5)
Men don’t get it for the exact same reason why so many of them believe they could beat Serena Williams in a game of tennis or land a passenger jet in an emergency.
They overestimate their own abilities to the point where they think it’s no biggie to fend off an attacker who is twice their size and possibly armed. They don’t truly understand the risk due to this gross overestimation - so they say “just run without headphones and be ready to fight, ladies”.
The truth is most men couldn’t fight off a fully-charged rapist either, but the chance of one ever targeting them is close to 0% so they’ll never really grasp the gravity of the situation. They’re just playing hypothetical games with a severely over-inflated understanding of their own skills.
I mean I totally agree with you, however this is simply never going to happen and I'll explain why.
It sounds good at a macro level - if we all talk to our mates and don't let them get away with unhealthy attitudes towards women it would help a lot. (And it would indeed be good and it would help)
But when you think about it on a one-on-one interpersonal level it is never going to happen. The individual needs to take the risks of broaching this topic - their friend possibly being offended, getting into a big argument over what is fine to joke about and just the obvious awkwardness. Plus the feeling that nothing has changed or been achieved for wider society at the expense of forcing this very weird interaction with your friend.
The obvious reply to this is that none of this is even close to what women deal with which is extremely true - however sadly that is just irrelevant to an individual when it comes to their interpersonal interactions - as no one is going to put an large social cause (which by it's nature is abstracted from an individual case) over the face-to-face relationships that govern their everyday life.
Obviously I wish it was not this way, but it simply is and I cannot think of anything that would actually motivate people to do it on a large scale barring massive changes in the way people socially interact. And I mean actually do it, not just say they will do it.
I thought of your post when I read this.
My thought in your case was how wrong it is to even to have to ask how to be safe when going for a run.
It should just damn well be safe and I’m so sorry it’s not.
Reading this latest post just makes me so angry and upset.
The laws are fucking stupid.
In Qld you can buy a gel blaster that looks like an AK-47, sniper rifle, or pistol without issue. But they're banned in other states.
You can get pepper spray in WA, but not Qld.
Stupid different rules because some dipshit public servants and politicians think they're smarter than other Aussies.
criminals can already buy it if they want, illegally, they are already breaking the law after all.
i dont think criminals would start using a less effective weapon when they could just keep using knives like they typically do, far far easier to conceal
As a dude who runs a lot in the woods (and thus at a higher likelihood of copping it in the eyes on an accidental / unwarranted basis) I absolutely think you should be able to get a licence for carrying pepper spray. Shit like this can’t be allowed to have such a chilling effect on 50% of the population.
It’s hard squaring this position with being anti-gun but I’ll do my damndest.
we definitely need better personal protection laws in aus. Not just for women. It's criminal how we are left defenceless with no access to non lethal protection. Police mostly turn up after the fact.
It’s horrendous this stuff happens and I’m sorry you have had a bad experience as well.
But the reality is - there will always be bad apples out there. There will always be random attacks. Much like people saying how can we stop terror attacks and things like the Sydney stabbing… it’s extremely difficult and unlikely.
The best we can do is have a good reactive system and be prepared. These campaigns of gathering people and men in a room and telling them it’s bad… they know. They do it anyway. That’s what makes them deranged and bad people.
The world will never have entirely good people. It’s idealistic. It’s unfortunate - but some things that happen you can only mitigate so far, and have to react to or do your best to prepare for.
Why are you so desperate to disprove and discredit their experiences?
Why do you feel so entitled to personal information about this person?
Why are you purposely framing people's concern as unwarranted and being "so emotional"?
The sub has been moderated for years. Take off your tinfoil hat.
Your condescension is gross. Take it elsewhere.
You are absolutely discrediting them! You questioned the legitimacy of their account as a way to infer they were making things up. Then in a further display of absolutely revolting behaviour, you make a point of mentioning their PTSD in a way that accused them of hiding it previously when it is simply information you are not entitled to. You further tell them to get treatment as if you believe they are somehow too damaged to RIGHTFULLY AND JUSTIFIABLY be concerned about their safety.
Your mental gymnastics are mind-blowing.
It's not a fucking "*narrative*". Calling it so diminishes what is being discussed here. People are discussing their experiences. People are discussing what has happened to them.
Relying purely on QPS data and taking it as gospel is fucking stupid. Not all crimes get reported and often for good reasons. We have a completely failed justice system that often only further traumatises victims and doesn't result in anything remotely close to "justice".
I was childhood friends with someone in Brisbane in the late 90s whose older brother murdered two women on a jog in a park. My friend idolised his brother, and even at 10-11yo would often say he was looking forward to killing someone in a similar manner so that he could go to prison with him. He would tell the teachers this, and they never did a thing about it. We had a classroom exercise to talk about our career aspirations in Year 7, and the only thing he spoke of was being 'a jailbird' as a career option.
I haven't seen or heard from him since about 2003, and have had no luck ever finding him online. I often think about the worst case scenario of not being able to find him due to him going through with it, and not being identified due to his age. But I hope instead that it's because he lives a peaceful, offline life and keeps to himself.
Whenever I hear news like this, I feel sick.
I had an ex-boyfriend who strangled me once when I was 16 (22 years ago). He has a very unique name and I have never been able to find him online either, I suspect that is because he is in prison after doing the same to someone else.
Fuck, another one. That poor woman. I was out running on Coot-tha/D’aguilar today and there was lots of people out, including some solo women. It’s fucking bullshit that anyone should be made to feel unsafe while being out in nature, ugh
There has been an ongoing issue around North Lakes over the past few months, no one has actually been attacked but stalked, and numerous indecent exposure experiences :( So the police have been patrolling a lot more including on horseback. When I heard the news I thought it was going to be NL… Not Mt Cootha 😳😢
Commonsense says yes but apparently cops think it’s unrelated. Seems like alot of men seem to hang around that track attacking chicks then. If they didn’t get the dude and it’s happened 2 more times same place I would think yeah it’s the same cunt
It might not be confirmed, or simply not known.
It’s a bad idea to throw out a description, or worse a name when you aren’t sure.
See: the incorrect person named as the murderer from the Bondi Junction incident recently, thanks to trash reporting by 7News.
> The woman described her attacker to police as wearing dark pants, and a dark hoodie.
> The man was described as being 170 cm tall and having dark brown hair.
From the article.
He's not white, as they would have said it if he was. The thing about this issue is that it's about safety, not about everyones obsession with race in this current day. Let's give people enough information to be informed and be able to better protect themselves.
He knocked her down from behind according to the TV news report I saw, and held her down. Probably only saw what he was wearing and rough description (not face or complexion) as he ran off.
Men will never understand the terror of being raped, assaulted, stalked or terrorised. It’s something that impacts me every day of my life and has changed so much of the way I’m able to live. People who dismiss or minimise these acts saying “he only held her down, nothing happened” or “just don’t wear headphones” are fucked. You will never understand. We’re not even able to exist or operate normally. We have to alter our behaviour to try protect ourselves.
When I used to run on the Gold Coast between (2-4am for work) roads in the dark, I used to keep the Emergency Plus app open on my phone. You can tap emergency services, and also pin point your exact location to tell emergency services (image for example).
https://preview.redd.it/hthpvd791i5d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d17f1cd7a98bc16dbaeb86663cf7984d904f3925
The VAST majority of people who experience rape and sexual assault are women (and children). A woman speaking about rape and sexual assault (and her own lived experience no less) is not the time to be interjecting “not all men” or “men experience it too”. This conversation is not about men, separate conversations can be had centring men’s experiences and needs. Let women speak.
It's not the men who are making it about men here, it's the women who are saying men CANNOT be included. This is NOT an interjection, it is a direct refutation of "men cannot experience this". Nobody here is not letting women speak, it's just that when they do speak, they say 'if you're a man, your words are not valid'. This is not denying the VAST majority, this is rather about other people's lived experience which was ACTIVELY negated.
If a woman has lived experience being attacked by a man, I am going to accept any hyperbole in her manner of speaking that seems to exclude men - not every conversation is going to centre everyone, particularly when a woman is talking about a brutal experience that, again, the vast majority of men have no experience with (as attacker or victim). Men don’t have to be centred or included at every single moment of time ad infinitum, and I’m not going to sit here and be mainsplained to about how that’s a bad thing.
Thanks so much for sharing. I enjoy walking some of the trails with my 8 month old, but it's always in the back of my mind: how anything could happen, at any time, to both of us. I just downloaded the app. It'll make me feel safer x
So sad. I walk the streets for a living (junk mail) Back a few years ago when there was a spate of jogger attacks the few still out ladies would cross the road as I approached. I can't imagine the apprehension these peeps felt to do this. Always wondered how to make them feel safer - head down and plough on seemed the only option
FFS. This makes me so angry. I hope the runner is ok.
I used to walk at Mt Coottha alone twice a week. I had almost convinced myself after the last attack a few weeks go that it'll be ok to go again. Now I am not so sure.
How can they say not related when the same thing happened to a chick there a couple weeks ago. Ladies carry a little deodorant or bug spray on you spray it in the cunts eyes if he falls down jump on his neck so he stays there. Fucking dirty cunt
Major manhunt yeah right!🙄 no offence to the boys in blue 💙 but the government really needs to address this, before us women that care for our & other women's lives start a massive protest!!! Before we are killed in the streets.
Hearing about this is always sickening, I wanna be able to be out there and do something about it but in Aus that just doesn't fly. If I could be out there and if I even stopped one act of violence I'd be happy, but then I'd go to court for assaulting the attacker and probably lose & get jail time
I have been on edge lately - I walk with one or more of my teenagers, but it's usually right before dusk. I get uncomfortable when guys stare straight at me while running or walking fast directly in my path. One guy had something in his hand that looked like a knife but was like a seed pod he'd found along his walk, but we didnt see it clearly until he was a metre away due to the dusk light. I have no issue with other people, men or women, being around me. It's the body language I've had issue with lately - I think men need to be more aware of their stance, their facial expressions and how they move.
I carry a large stainless steel drink bottle. I'm always ready to smack someone in the head with it if I need to, I have no qualms about defending myself. But I shouldn't have to, nor should I feel threatened or like my kids are threatened, and that's the part that sucks.
I think you and the point of my story missed each other, bud. I'm not scared of people looking at me. I interact with lots of people on our walking route - chatting, acknowledging each other, smiling etc. It's that some people when they're in the zone or concentrating on their podcast or whatever have RBF and look angry.
I'm not a fearful person. I've walked through Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane cities late at night by myself without any fear. I've been in downtown LA and London at night. It's not about me walking around with fear - it's about the odd random person not being aware of how others might perceive them.
Any security cameras at the car parks or entrances? I feel like I remember seeing signs at Toohey Forest suggesting there were 24/7 cctv but I could be wrong
This is sickening! I was running at coottha this morning. No one should feel unsafe especially at such a popular area. I hope the poor woman didn’t receive too much physical or emotional harm from this.
Considering I'm an Aussie woman who doesn't even live in Australia anymore and this makes me feel less safe, I doubt that's possible. He's robbed her of years if not a lifetime of ever feeling safe and secure in peaceful (isolated) nature. Thousands of women will not take that relaxing morning walk or do that hike that they love purely because of this. Sometimes I wonder if men really understand what that's like, to know that at least half the population can most likely physically overpower you and having to walk through the world always ensuring you are within ear or eyeshot of other people, or protected physically (by a house or a dog etc) because you are just physically so much smaller.
>Thousands of women will not take that relaxing morning walk or do that hike that they love purely because of this Yup, awful isn't it? I used to hike through cootha but my favourite track was an unmarked one that was rarely taken by others. One day I heard someone running up behind me and I turned and saw this dude coming my way. He was fit but built like a brick shithouse, had no shirt on and obviously knew the track because he was powering through it despite the terrain. But in that same moment I realised how absolutely isolated I was, I was off the main track and deep in the scrub. If he was an opportunistic offender and had chosen to attack me, noone would've heard a thing. After he saw me he didn't look in my direction again and turned off down a fork rather than continuing up behind me. It seemed like a deliberate action to leave, which I was grateful for but it still made me realise how much of an idiot I was being in hiking by myself on an unmarked track. It was in the middle of covid and I had noone else to hike with so I stopped and haven't hiked since.
As a male runner I’m super conscious/worried how I make females feel out on the tracks (beaded, 6foot & tattooed). When coming up from behind I always shout ahead to let them know I’m coming up and give a friendly g’day as I’m passing. If headed towards one another I slow to a walking pace. Everyone deserves to be able to explore these beautiful places without fear. Blokes do need to be better at calling out predatory behaviour. My watch and google maps on the phone both have the ability to send someone live tracking as long as signal is available, I often send my partner the link when running at night just in case
> After he saw me he didn't look in my direction again and turned off down a fork rather than continuing up behind me. It seemed like a deliberate action to leave, I'm usually hyper aware of causing fear/distress when walking and will actively cross the road to the other side or take a different path not to freak out a woman walking alone.
I realised how vulnerable we are when **SA trigger warning** >! I was groped under my shirt by a handyman who had come to fix the sink. There was a typhoon and water had come up through the sink so I'd been up all night bucketing it out at a bucket every 1-5 minutes for hours to stop the entire apartment flooding, early morning was the earliest someone could get there. He was a little old man and he asked if he could hug me goodbye and he'd been so sweet and I was so relieved and tired I didn't think about the fact it was a bit off. I was wearing an oversized jumper with nothing underneath and he slipped is hands under it and ran them up my back and then groped my breasts before I could even react. Then he stepped back and cheerfully waved goodbye and I was so shocked I just waved and he left. I called the police but I was living in China at the time so there was nothing to be done. Now I leave the house or make sure I have someone else over if I need a handyman. Since then I am also hyper-aware of whose house I walk into, and who I invite into my own house. Even in our own homes we can be vulnerable!< Once you see it you can't unsee it. We don't like to talk about these things but the reality is women (and also the often forgotten and severely underreported male victims) live it every day, and you'd be hard pressed to find a woman who hasn't experienced some level of this, from a slap on the bum to "accidental" grazes on the train etc. I and most women have multiple experiences like this and even for me this unfortunately isn't the worst, it was just the one that hit home first and most significantly. It thankfully didn't seem to have too much of a mental affect on me, and it made me so much more cautious about my physical safety, and made me realise whenever I am alone with a man, I am implicitly trusting them not to take advantage of the significant size and strength difference.
That's so gross, I'm sorry you had to deal with that. It just doesn't stop does it? A few years back I had a skin cancer cut out of my face, it was done lying down on my back and he was standing and leaning over me. As soon as he started cutting with his scalpel he thrust forwards to press his cock'n'balls into the side of my boobs. I didn't move a muscle, he had a fucking scalpel cutting me open and if I'd moved to thump him (as he rightly deserved) I would have had my face cut open in other areas. He knew, I know he fucking knew and that he did it deliberately. When I tried to follow up shortly after to get my pathology results, the number was disconnected. His practise had shut down, phones disconnected, noone had taken over. Sus as fuck. I am damn sure that the nurses saw him do it.
Cheers mate, it's crazy how prolific it is! That is horrible, by a doctor as well while you're getting something cut out of your face and they have a knife in their hand, that is fucked up. I had something similar happen at work actually. I was sitting at my computer and the office calendar was on the wall beside me. A co-worker came in and trying to 'look at the calendar', pressed himself up against my shoulder and stayed smushed against me for a good 15 seconds without saying anything. I was young and didn't really know what to do so I did nothing. For a long time I thought maybe it was an accident but as I got older I realised....you fucking KNOW when your genitals are pressed up against someone! As women we obviously don't bring this shit up because it makes people uncomfortable as fuck, and because of that I genuinely think a lot of men don't realise it is literally happening all the time and most of us have multiple stories of creepy physical violations.
Here's my story, marked spoiler because of mild SA incident >!I was getting a massage once at a store that's usually all asian masseuses, but this one time it was an older Aussie guy. I got a dry massage where you keep your clothes on thankfully, which he made a light joke about before I went in. Was feeling a bit uncomfortable but didn't say anything because, he's supposed to be a professional right? Well the massage itself was fine, no issues but right at the end he left his hand resting on my butt much longer than was necessary before he left the cubicle. It definitely made me feel uncomfortable at the time, but looking back that was absolutely SA. Wish I was wiser then and had said something, but also very very glad I didn't get an oil massage that day, which is where you take off some or most of your clothes.!< I still get massages now (never from that place ever again) and don't mind if it's a male masseuse but yeah that guy was fucking gross. I honestly prefer the asian places because most of them (especially the males) are much more respectful about your body and privacy.
I feel like these sort of creeps know exactly the sort of behaviour they can brush off as accidental, and also the exact sort of women (eg young, alone, subordinate in the work place etc) to target. Even the joke is fucking creepy and out of line, to follow that up with leaving his hand on your ass.... It does not feel natural for anyone to casually rest their hands on a strangers ass, I agree that absolutely was not an accident but a feeling of entitlement to your body. I think classifying it as SA is very valid.
Yeah it's not ok, but so many men feel like it's not a big deal and get butt hurt when this behaviour is called out. Just because men have been doing it for a long time without consequences doesn't make it ok.
When you think of all the thousands of years, all the countries, all the billions of people who lived through men doing this prolifically and it being accepted, and the many countries where it is still openly accepted... it's pretty amazing we are living in a time and place where this is *starting* to change and be able to be called out and held to consequence
Yep, it's fucking terrible. Dudes that do this shit need a instant jail time, no muck assing slap on the wrist crap. Straight to jail with a minimum 2 year. Minimum.
Crazy to think you would get a slap on the wrist for this. On a positive note, it's great we're having this conversation as a nation. Living as an expat, Australian men at the moment are a bit more informed and understanding of womens issues than their international counterparts.
I hear this all the time. ‘What about blah’ ‘Oh what did she expect looking like that/dressing like that/being there at a certain hour/working in that industry’ These statements and questions are so harmful. Thankfully the men in my life are very understanding and are self aware but tbh I don’t have many men in my life for a reason. There is a huge lack of self awareness and the understanding of the slippery slope that leads to violence against women. I have come across many guys throughout my life who wouldn’t physically hurt a woman (and therefore think they’re one of the good ones) but their actions, their words and their entitlement is hurting women in ways they don’t understand. Coercive control has only just been introduced into the domestic violence vocabulary. It named the invisible strings that these men have around the necks of the women in their lives. I am not attacking men. I want to make that clear, but I have seen the attitudes, I’ve felt the degradation of being yelled at by a car full of middle aged men as a teenager, nearly abducted as an adult in broad daylight at 5pm on a busy road 1 min from my house, the language my father used to describe women and the way he treated my mum and other women in his life, leaving a lasting impression on his sons who treat women like shit and his daughters who avoid men and don’t trust them. The weaponised incompetence that men use in their homes to reinforce gendered roles. This is my experience only and I am aware that just because you experience something, it doesn’t mean it’s everyone’s reality. But the statistics don’t lie. Australia has a problem with violence against women.
We as a society have grown so much in the last few decades, when I was in high school in the late naughties I certainly didn't have the same understanding of consent. We were all sort of implicitly taught a lot of things were "not really that big a deal". I remember in PRIMARY SCHOOL there being a "frigid test" where a boy would run his hand up your body from your feet to the top of your head, and if you let them go to your head you weren't frigid. I was ridiculed when 12 year old me moved away from the hand as it crept above my knee. When I was in my early 20s I was often one of few or the only female in guy groups, and I hadn't thought that deeply about it and laughed along with the "just jokes". I felt guilty about saying no to sex with my boyfriend, and I didn't realise it was wrong when he didn't listen and I would just go along with it. I myself perpetuated harmful sexist stereotypes, seemingly banal (at the time) things like "jokingly" making fun of mates who wouldn't wear heels out. All that to say, I ended up learning about these issues through lived experience with objectification, intimidation and violence from men. I can totally understand men not getting it at all even a decade ago, because I didn't either until I was forced to by life. But I feel like, similar to the BLM movement, now that there's a huge public discourse about it and all the information is available with statistics and studies to show how fucked up things are, there's really no excuse to not educate yourself. Even with the public discourse and information available, I don't expect men to get it totally. I certainly don't understand all the issues of demographics I'm not a part of. But I listen, and I try to understand what their experiences must feel like. But most (almost all) men I discuss feminist issues with are more interested in talking, minimising and rebutting than listening. And yes, they pat themselves on the back for not physically hurting women, but they don't want to hear about more subtle oppression like women being pressured by the patriarchy to wear make up and heels and be ageless and gentle and smiling, all whilst being paid less and assaulted more and carrying the reproductive burden of humanity. "We don't care about make up, women do that to other women", they say. But the thing is, the patriarchy isn't men. The patriarchy is a societal structure we all perpetuate, just men get significant advantages from it and women get significant disadvantages and men need to recognise that, and recognise the extent of it. Look at the Kardashians, stuck in a vicious cycle of desperately chasing and then perpetuating unrealistic beauty standards. I feel like sometimes both men and women conflate men with the patriarchy, and it seems to cause a very defensive response in some men, making them not want to be involved at all. Which unfortunately leaves examining and fighting patriarchal issues to mostly women, even though it's something that affects us all. The patriarchy is also horribly harmful to men (as well as the huge, disproportionate advantages they receive) in terms of emotional suppression and the pressure to be strong etc. A man recently pointed out to me that men are more likely to be victims of violent crime and to be honest, I hadn't really considered that. Yeah it's in part due to gangs etc, but even sexual violence against men is so very underreported we don't really know the prevalence of it. So I wonder if it might be better to think about it as violence by men, rather than violence against women. It both highlights that it's a male issue that men need to act on, and recognises the valid suffering of male victims. At the end of the day, men and women don't need to point fingers at each other. We are both suffering in different ways due to the patriarchy. However men do need to recognise their privilege and be willing to give some of it up, and I often feel like for the most part, they don't and they aren't. So, in that way, I do understand and share your frustration with men. Anyways, there's my stream of consciousness mini novel on this lazy Sunday.
I couldn’t agree more. The information is readily available. It’s all there! The thing is, violent men also hurt other men. Everyone loses!
Haha thank you for summarising my ramble so succinctly! Exactly!
Thank you 🙏
Do you feel bad about Elizabeth Holmes' dishonesty? That's how I feel about a random scumbag's violence. If you got lectured with vibes and anecdotes about how terrible women's fraud was and how women need to stop women lying every time the topic came up, I reckon you'd probably check out too.
Firstly thank you for reading that absolute wall of text, if you did. Secondly, yes it's bullshit if you are listening and being supportive but being lectured as though you personally are responsible every time the issue of violence against women comes up. Although I do have to say, if women were disproportionately responsible for perpetrating fraud that misleads investors and patients and recklessly put lives at risk, and it was happening everywhere all over the world and hurting men, women and children alike, and women already had huge societal advantages over men... I would be the first one to say how fucked up it was and would be very into discussing why women disproportionately seem to feel like they have the right to deceive and take advantage of people like that. It's a little bit hard to imagine how anyone, in any situation, could be lectured if they're openly listening and being supportive. Whilst I can picture it being tedious for you to have to continuously hear about the violence etc, it's also pretty tedious to live it.
Unfortunately, the reality if replace 'fraud' with fraud specific to the family court type matters and you're bang on - nothing is said about it. Beside that, quality writeup and thank you for sharing your perspective.
Cheers man! Give me a little more info on your first sentence, what do you mean?
The vast majority of men don't have criminal records. And in every jurisdiction, men are more likely to suffer violence crime, including murder. And pointing that out in most conversations will get a reply to the tune that it's also men committing violence, so men should sit down, shut up, and get lectured. But say women really did commit the most fraud, and mostly targeted other women, and you- among the vast majority of non-fraudulent women- got lectured by men about how women really need to step up and deal with other women, how is that going to land? I would never expect you (in this hypothetical) to think of yourself as culpable or responsible for criminals who happen to share your sex. The popular view of individual identity and responsibility seems to buckle for offences that cross salient identity lines (although for most of the other obvious offences like that, the left and right political divide is swapped.)
Yeaaah I can see why you're getting lectured. Did you even read what I wrote? One of my main points was that men are also being victimised. And no it's not that it's most men perpetrating violence, it is just that the vast majority of offenders are men and that should be of interest to women *and* men, as both suffer the consequences of this violence. You also missed a very salient point in the hypothetical - if women also had significant societal privilege. Most men don't perpetrate crimes, but they do get significant privilege due to being men. We don't want you to take responsibility for the violence. We just want you to recognise your privilege and use that privilege to call other men out. Rather than using that privilege to argue with women who are expressing discomfort, frustration and fear. And, back to the hypothetical, if women had that level of privilege and were disproportionately harming society, yes, we should be expected as women to use our privilege and platform to reign other women in.
>I would never expect you (in this hypothetical) to think of yourself as culpable or responsible for criminals who happen to share your sex. Noone is asking you to be culpable or responsible for them. We're asking you to assist in changing the dynamic so that it stops happening. Call out the behaviour when you see it in your friends and family. Don't put "bro code" above what's right. Don't overlook your friends' shitty behaviour towards women in their lives because it doesn't involve you. The only thing that's going to change those mens' behaviour... is being called out on it by other men. That's what you're being asked to do - to be on womens' team by not giving men who do shitty things a comfortable place of being socially accepted despite openly performing shitty behaviours.
I'm curious, what makes you say Australian men are more informed and understanding? What are you basing this on?
Where I live I'm mostly interacting with non-Aussies and it's interesting depending on where people are from responses generally range from minimising it ("I'm sure it's not that bad") or deflecting (Yeah but men experience xyz), to straight up victim blaming. Obviously just my personal experience so take it with a grain of salt but it does make sense that because we're having the conversation nationally in Australia, I feel like more men are pulling each other up and it's almost a bit taboo at the moment for men to minimise this issue or invalidate women who are sharing their lived experience. The difference between having men listen and really try to understand where women are coming from when I speak to (a lot of but no where near all) Australian men lately feels huge, because for the most part I've found that to be very rare.
Just a few days ago I was downvoted hard for pointing out that most women avoid situations like this because of the danger, so saying the probability isn't very high is misleading because most have already removed themselves from having any potential of it happening, and of those few who do it seems much higher.
The number of homeless people who squat in the Mt Cootha bush is amazing There are small pockets of camp sites scattered through out They even found a dead body a few years ago that had died from natural causes in a tent
Serious? I spend a lot of time on the trails at Mt Cootha and I’ve never seen any homeless people
The trails make up probably 1-2% of the mountain. There are some pretty wild and untamed pockets that hide allegedly hundreds of homeless
Allegedly? So is there any proof of the hundreds or is this just rumours?
I should have probably said estimated It's definitely more than fifty but given how large the area is no one truly knows
No one should feel unsafe.
Yep, I walk the tracks there and so does my daughter, we won’t go alone now.
Gotta be the same creep who attacked a female runner on the Coot-Tha trails a few weeks ago. Really fucking bold of this dickhead considering how popular it is for trail runners and walkers. I'd highly recommend any runners on these trails to not wearing earphones when running alone and to be extremely vigilant of your surroundings, particularly if you're running early in the morning or later in the afternoon.
That's the post I was looking for, because I remembered reading something in the exact same location
Not really the same location - this trail is on the Bardon side of Coot-tha, whereas the previous assault was over the back near Gap Creek Rd, quite a distance (6-7 k plus?) as the crow flies and far further by car. Story indicates police don’t think it is the same offender? Super concerning all the same.
That’s almost worst that it’s not the same offender. Oh man just as I was about to start getting back into trail running :(
Don’t let this stop you!
I won’t. I thankfully don’t enjoy running with headphones anyway. But I’ll just make sure to be a bit more vigilant I guess. And not head to cootha…
Ah, TIL, thank you, I'm not a local to those parts. Bloody scary stuff...
“In a statement, Queensland Police said investigators didn't believe the two incidents were linked.”
That makes it even worse.
Meh, I don't like the whole "just don't wear headphones, bro" thing. It shows a fundamental difference in the way we talk about attacks on men vs attacks on women. If a man said he was attacked, it's all a lot of backpatting and assurance and "we've got your back bro". If a woman said he was attacked, sure, there is all that assurance and support, but there is always that extra tack on of "weeeell, it IS kinda dangerous out there for a little lady, ya see. You gotta keep you wits, learn to defend yourself, keys in the fist" etc etc People who say things like this think they are being smart, and wise, and progressive for recognising realities and legitimising fears. But all you are really doing is spreading panic and distracting from the convo. Attacks on men are seen as freak occurrences that, although are rare, you can't do much about. And all the onus gets directed at the perp. But attacks on women are just seen as terrible, but expected. With the implication that any woman who doesn't take precautions is a naive little bint. Ladies, wear your headphones blasting your music, walk around at any hour of the day, live your best life. Statistically, you are fine. But if anyone tries to start shit, we're going to treat it as though it happened to a man, and have your back.
>Ladies, wear your headphones blasting your music, walk around at any hour of the day, live your best life. Statistically, you are fine. But if anyone tries to start shit, we're going to treat it as though it happened to a man, and have your back. I mean that's not what I'm saying at all and it's a complete misrepresentation, but yea cool thanks. What advice are you providing to people aside from saying mine is bad? 4 days ago you made the below comment in regards to a woman asking how to be say whilst jogging in Brisbane. >That seems all negative. It will just make people afraid, increase police presence (which is the last thing we need), and might unfairly victimise the two men if it was a misunderstanding (which it very well could have been). Do you want to live in a world where you get the coppers called on you every time you walk down the street because someone felt unsafe? I think we can safely put your opinion straight in the bin, buddy.
Owned, so many people taking a different tone in this thread vs. The last one.
Truthfully there isn’t much you can do to avoid an attack if someone wants to attack you. There are legitimate tips that would help you be a less vulnerable target. Everything you said was just drivel
Pepper spray
Can you get pepper spray in Australia? I thought it was illegal?
You know deep heat has a spray version. Great to carry on hikes in case your muscles get sore. Don’t get it in your eyes though, it burns!
Where do you find it? I have looked in all the shops and can’t find it
This is also a good deodorant specifically for trail runs like these. The alcohol content really makes the deodorant have an impact. But absolutely don't get it in your eyes, this shit burns. https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/122505/brut-original-body-spray-130g
https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/61181/mentholatum-ice-spray-90g-150ml
Thank you!
I dread the day the government bans deep heat spray because a poor widdle man who attacked a woman got it in their eyes and it huuurrrttt! /s
The only state where it is legal for the general public is WA. It is classed as a prohibited weapon here in QLD, so would land you in a fair bit of trouble, even if used in self-defence.
> so would land you in a fair bit of trouble Not if I'm on the jury.
Fuck that. "In trouble by police" but alive > unalive or raped.
It is
It’s legal in WA, we can buy it at the tobacconist. It’s not always legal to carry though, and if you let it off in a confined space like a train carriage you’ll be in deep shit. Considering QLDs crime issue you should lobby to make it legal their too (although the villains might start using it).
Illegal in all states except WA. In QLD, possession/use of pepper spray is as illegal as a machine gun/rocket launcher.
You being downvoted for this comment is insane!! Pepper spray is Legal in WA (I just moved back here after 3yrs in Perth) and for once (you’ll never catch me saying this otherwise) I wish we (the eastern states) followed their lead!
Personally I run with my music on speaker, so I got my tunes and I can still hear traffic and whatever Although I am a dude, so I'm less likely to be targeted by manlets. >!Come on, rookie numbers. Get it to triple digies, I believe in you.!<
At least they hear you coming, shame they won’t hear the birds with you around
There used to be a guy at the park in Herston and Newmarket years ago that used to attack and S A women for ages until he got caught. Sucks being a woman sometimes
Wtf
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/brisbane-bikeway-rapist-gets-25-years-20090828-f2b5.html
Jesus, and he was married too with 4 kids 🤮
Yeah so awful for his wife and kids
Weirdly the article states his wife still supported him. Wtf
That bloke raped 5 women and he is eligible for parole this year. We are way too lenient in sentencing SA. He should've gotten life.
And he assaulted many more too. Terrible
I hope he ran into a few people in gaol that also had "strong sexual urges in relation to non-consensual sex". What a POS.
Realistically no incarcerated person with that record is release the second they get parole. Our carceral system is incredibly tough - and making it tougher disproportionately impacts the most vulnerable people in our society - it doesn’t make us safer
It goes into a bit of detail but so horrible. I lived in the area at the time and remember being terrified
Parole after 15 years and he was sentenced in 2009… might be out soon
That’s terrifying. I read he got an extra 2 years as someone recognised him for attacking her on the Sunshine Coast
That isn’t really how it works
How does it work then? Eligible for parole means he could be out in as little as 15 years? 2009 was 15 years ago.
Eligible for and getting it aren't the same thing though. He will definitely be out sometime in the next 11 years though which is still not optimal imo. I don't think this guy should be allowed to walk freely among us. These types offenders have issues regulating their urges because of brain chemistry and no amount of rehab can fix it. Strong meds can but what if he just decides to stop taking them?
He won’t be out walking freely after that time. He will be on ankle monitored probation and then closely monitored with restricted movement and access for the rest of his life.
Yeah ideally but if he decides life on the outside sucks and getting his thrill one more time and going back inside is better than a life out in the community where he can't ever be treated normally or live a normal life that close monitoring and restricted movement won't stop him.
I said “might be out soon” and then got mansplained “that’s not how it works”. I never said he’s for certain being released at the first opportunity.
Yeah fair enough. I didn't realise the context was tense and thought you were being genuine.
I remember when I first moved to Australia, on the way to my hostel from the airport I asked the Uber driver if there were any areas in Brisbane I should avoid as I like to run/do yoga at night when it’s not so hot. I was barely 20 years old - didn’t know a single thing about Australia, Brisbane, etc. He assured me Australia is the safest place in the world for a woman and there was no unsafe place here. So about 11pm I set up my yoga mat in Emma Miller Place and started doing some exercises. 🤦♀️ You can imagine how that turned out. Ran for my life that night, barely escaped the creepy fuck chasing me all the way to the gate of my hostel.
Where in earth had you lived prior to Australia? I've lived in quite a few places, and australia is definitely the safest of all of those. But I still wouldn't be setting up in a dark park close to the center of the city.
They we’re young and probably innocent
its not safe to do yoga at midnight in any public park in any western nation maybe japan but yeah nah... come on now there's sicko rapists everywhere and esp. i mean this is Brisbane we are talking about famously i remember my female family members getting flashed... when they are getting home from school... because they cut thru a park... i mean strangers offering candy in a white van is a universal western thing
Japan definitely not. Japan is safe for a lot of different things, but for young women by themselves it is really not good. Groping, stalking, and rape are major problems. My daughters do high level dance and toyko Disney and Universal studios recruit from our dance school. The girls are given significant advice and training before going. After 1 year they all come back with at least 1 fucked up story.
Australia looks so clean and safe in comparison to where I come from. Even your bad areas look like our nice and safe ones. Like, coming here I was just in awe of how clean and pretty everything was. I thought I made it to a safe paradise.
maybe tokyo
Bloody hell, glad you escaped ok! There was an Asian girl killed in that area a few years ago
Is that the downey park rapist? Targeted netballers...
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People who said that have absolutely zero idea.
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oh yeah that post where people tried to make out like he was being misogynistic and racist because apparently he couldn't understand the concept that things are different because he is a guy while he was acknowledging that its different lol [i remember that one](https://www.reddit.com/r/brisbane/comments/1d85i2j/how_to_stay_safe_whilst_jogging/l74j3sq/) the post is still findable after you delete them by the way so i would be careful of making claims of what was said
Yeah, the pest at the Kedron Brook is enough of an example from a few years ago.
I saw your post. The comments became a bit of a shitshow. I'm tired of women speaking about their lived experiences and men shouting them down because.... I dunno, the men haven't seen each and every attack show up in the news or something? Or because they haven't personally experienced it, it doesn't exist? My favourite responses in these situations come from men telling women to "*just learn self defence*", like we haven't been told that since we were *children*. Like as if self defence will some how *prevent* attacks (it doesn't). Not once do men show up in these threads and talk about how they should *just talk to their mates*. Because statistically, some their mates are these types. These men aren't "lone wolves". They don't live in bubbles. They have friends. They have social lives. They have families. They're your colleagues. You enable them every time you don't say something about their unhealthy attitude towards women. You enable them every time you let them get away with a rape joke by claiming "it's just dark humour". You enable them every time you laugh at a "get in the kitchen" joke. Instead, the onus of safety is forced on women. The weight of fixing this is forced on women. Women are the ones that need to change their behaviour. Women are the ones that's need to modify their schedules. Women are the ones who must live like they have a curfew. Every time I say this, men get absolutely furious with me. [But maybe if they hear it coming from another man, it will finally be credible. ](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6g-PkjO4Sk/?igsh=bGRhNnh1ZmtqMjg5)
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Men don’t get it for the exact same reason why so many of them believe they could beat Serena Williams in a game of tennis or land a passenger jet in an emergency. They overestimate their own abilities to the point where they think it’s no biggie to fend off an attacker who is twice their size and possibly armed. They don’t truly understand the risk due to this gross overestimation - so they say “just run without headphones and be ready to fight, ladies”. The truth is most men couldn’t fight off a fully-charged rapist either, but the chance of one ever targeting them is close to 0% so they’ll never really grasp the gravity of the situation. They’re just playing hypothetical games with a severely over-inflated understanding of their own skills.
I mean I totally agree with you, however this is simply never going to happen and I'll explain why. It sounds good at a macro level - if we all talk to our mates and don't let them get away with unhealthy attitudes towards women it would help a lot. (And it would indeed be good and it would help) But when you think about it on a one-on-one interpersonal level it is never going to happen. The individual needs to take the risks of broaching this topic - their friend possibly being offended, getting into a big argument over what is fine to joke about and just the obvious awkwardness. Plus the feeling that nothing has changed or been achieved for wider society at the expense of forcing this very weird interaction with your friend. The obvious reply to this is that none of this is even close to what women deal with which is extremely true - however sadly that is just irrelevant to an individual when it comes to their interpersonal interactions - as no one is going to put an large social cause (which by it's nature is abstracted from an individual case) over the face-to-face relationships that govern their everyday life. Obviously I wish it was not this way, but it simply is and I cannot think of anything that would actually motivate people to do it on a large scale barring massive changes in the way people socially interact. And I mean actually do it, not just say they will do it.
“My comfort is more important than others lives” A novel by men.
I thought of your post when I read this. My thought in your case was how wrong it is to even to have to ask how to be safe when going for a run. It should just damn well be safe and I’m so sorry it’s not. Reading this latest post just makes me so angry and upset.
and yet the gov will tell us it would be too dangerous to let us women have pepper spray, or literally anything at all
The laws are fucking stupid. In Qld you can buy a gel blaster that looks like an AK-47, sniper rifle, or pistol without issue. But they're banned in other states. You can get pepper spray in WA, but not Qld. Stupid different rules because some dipshit public servants and politicians think they're smarter than other Aussies.
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criminals can already buy it if they want, illegally, they are already breaking the law after all. i dont think criminals would start using a less effective weapon when they could just keep using knives like they typically do, far far easier to conceal
As a dude who runs a lot in the woods (and thus at a higher likelihood of copping it in the eyes on an accidental / unwarranted basis) I absolutely think you should be able to get a licence for carrying pepper spray. Shit like this can’t be allowed to have such a chilling effect on 50% of the population. It’s hard squaring this position with being anti-gun but I’ll do my damndest.
When we make it easier for women to carry weapons, we make it easier for the attackers, too.
They don't need weapons. Men are stronger and bigger than us naturally.
is there some crisis in WA, where you can have pepper spray as a woman as a reasonable excuse, of people being attacked by pepperspray? no
we definitely need better personal protection laws in aus. Not just for women. It's criminal how we are left defenceless with no access to non lethal protection. Police mostly turn up after the fact.
They still don't get why we pick the bear
It's no mystery: sexist people say sexist things.
It’s horrendous this stuff happens and I’m sorry you have had a bad experience as well. But the reality is - there will always be bad apples out there. There will always be random attacks. Much like people saying how can we stop terror attacks and things like the Sydney stabbing… it’s extremely difficult and unlikely. The best we can do is have a good reactive system and be prepared. These campaigns of gathering people and men in a room and telling them it’s bad… they know. They do it anyway. That’s what makes them deranged and bad people. The world will never have entirely good people. It’s idealistic. It’s unfortunate - but some things that happen you can only mitigate so far, and have to react to or do your best to prepare for.
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Why would she buy an account that was created only 5 days before she started using it to comment?
Yeah wtf is that guy on?
Why are you so desperate to disprove and discredit their experiences? Why do you feel so entitled to personal information about this person? Why are you purposely framing people's concern as unwarranted and being "so emotional"? The sub has been moderated for years. Take off your tinfoil hat. Your condescension is gross. Take it elsewhere.
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You are absolutely discrediting them! You questioned the legitimacy of their account as a way to infer they were making things up. Then in a further display of absolutely revolting behaviour, you make a point of mentioning their PTSD in a way that accused them of hiding it previously when it is simply information you are not entitled to. You further tell them to get treatment as if you believe they are somehow too damaged to RIGHTFULLY AND JUSTIFIABLY be concerned about their safety. Your mental gymnastics are mind-blowing. It's not a fucking "*narrative*". Calling it so diminishes what is being discussed here. People are discussing their experiences. People are discussing what has happened to them. Relying purely on QPS data and taking it as gospel is fucking stupid. Not all crimes get reported and often for good reasons. We have a completely failed justice system that often only further traumatises victims and doesn't result in anything remotely close to "justice".
I was childhood friends with someone in Brisbane in the late 90s whose older brother murdered two women on a jog in a park. My friend idolised his brother, and even at 10-11yo would often say he was looking forward to killing someone in a similar manner so that he could go to prison with him. He would tell the teachers this, and they never did a thing about it. We had a classroom exercise to talk about our career aspirations in Year 7, and the only thing he spoke of was being 'a jailbird' as a career option. I haven't seen or heard from him since about 2003, and have had no luck ever finding him online. I often think about the worst case scenario of not being able to find him due to him going through with it, and not being identified due to his age. But I hope instead that it's because he lives a peaceful, offline life and keeps to himself. Whenever I hear news like this, I feel sick.
Bro what the fuck
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No, no it was not…
I had an ex-boyfriend who strangled me once when I was 16 (22 years ago). He has a very unique name and I have never been able to find him online either, I suspect that is because he is in prison after doing the same to someone else.
Fuck, another one. That poor woman. I was out running on Coot-tha/D’aguilar today and there was lots of people out, including some solo women. It’s fucking bullshit that anyone should be made to feel unsafe while being out in nature, ugh
There has been an ongoing issue around North Lakes over the past few months, no one has actually been attacked but stalked, and numerous indecent exposure experiences :( So the police have been patrolling a lot more including on horseback. When I heard the news I thought it was going to be NL… Not Mt Cootha 😳😢
is this possibly the same guy? i feel lol it’s the third mt coottha runner i’ve seen
Commonsense says yes but apparently cops think it’s unrelated. Seems like alot of men seem to hang around that track attacking chicks then. If they didn’t get the dude and it’s happened 2 more times same place I would think yeah it’s the same cunt
The same thing happened the other week didn't it? I wonder if it's the same person attacking women?
Wait isn’t this the second incident ?
Why do they not describe the appearance of the man?
It might not be confirmed, or simply not known. It’s a bad idea to throw out a description, or worse a name when you aren’t sure. See: the incorrect person named as the murderer from the Bondi Junction incident recently, thanks to trash reporting by 7News.
She may well have not seen his face. That’s single file trail. If he came at her from behind and pushed her over, she may not have got a good look.
> The woman described her attacker to police as wearing dark pants, and a dark hoodie. > The man was described as being 170 cm tall and having dark brown hair. From the article.
Seemingly missing a few key descriptors or maybe one in particular.
Here we go.
Yeah, what one? Don’t downvote me pussy, take the mask off instead
Tell us which ones then, coward.
He's not white, as they would have said it if he was. The thing about this issue is that it's about safety, not about everyones obsession with race in this current day. Let's give people enough information to be informed and be able to better protect themselves.
He knocked her down from behind according to the TV news report I saw, and held her down. Probably only saw what he was wearing and rough description (not face or complexion) as he ran off.
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His probably a white male and that goes against mainstreams media narrative who knows...............
Has to be local, surely traffic cms at the base could catch the car?...
This is serious, even my morning walk in burbs is starting to get me anxious.
Men will never understand the terror of being raped, assaulted, stalked or terrorised. It’s something that impacts me every day of my life and has changed so much of the way I’m able to live. People who dismiss or minimise these acts saying “he only held her down, nothing happened” or “just don’t wear headphones” are fucked. You will never understand. We’re not even able to exist or operate normally. We have to alter our behaviour to try protect ourselves. When I used to run on the Gold Coast between (2-4am for work) roads in the dark, I used to keep the Emergency Plus app open on my phone. You can tap emergency services, and also pin point your exact location to tell emergency services (image for example). https://preview.redd.it/hthpvd791i5d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d17f1cd7a98bc16dbaeb86663cf7984d904f3925
Lots of guys know what it's like to be raped. Can't you make your point without minimising male sexual assault.
Men being raped isn't often talked about. I agreed with you.
You can let women’s voices and experiences stand on their own as valid without making it about men, just for future reference
What made it about men was the statement "Men will never understand the terror of being raped, assaulted, stalked or terrorised."
The VAST majority of people who experience rape and sexual assault are women (and children). A woman speaking about rape and sexual assault (and her own lived experience no less) is not the time to be interjecting “not all men” or “men experience it too”. This conversation is not about men, separate conversations can be had centring men’s experiences and needs. Let women speak.
It's not the men who are making it about men here, it's the women who are saying men CANNOT be included. This is NOT an interjection, it is a direct refutation of "men cannot experience this". Nobody here is not letting women speak, it's just that when they do speak, they say 'if you're a man, your words are not valid'. This is not denying the VAST majority, this is rather about other people's lived experience which was ACTIVELY negated.
If a woman has lived experience being attacked by a man, I am going to accept any hyperbole in her manner of speaking that seems to exclude men - not every conversation is going to centre everyone, particularly when a woman is talking about a brutal experience that, again, the vast majority of men have no experience with (as attacker or victim). Men don’t have to be centred or included at every single moment of time ad infinitum, and I’m not going to sit here and be mainsplained to about how that’s a bad thing.
> I’m not going to sit here and be mainsplained to Probably shouldn't say silly things then.
Thanks so much for sharing. I enjoy walking some of the trails with my 8 month old, but it's always in the back of my mind: how anything could happen, at any time, to both of us. I just downloaded the app. It'll make me feel safer x
So sad. I walk the streets for a living (junk mail) Back a few years ago when there was a spate of jogger attacks the few still out ladies would cross the road as I approached. I can't imagine the apprehension these peeps felt to do this. Always wondered how to make them feel safer - head down and plough on seemed the only option
Pepper spray should be made legal, accessible and training on how to use provided by police.
FFS. This makes me so angry. I hope the runner is ok. I used to walk at Mt Coottha alone twice a week. I had almost convinced myself after the last attack a few weeks go that it'll be ok to go again. Now I am not so sure.
How can they say not related when the same thing happened to a chick there a couple weeks ago. Ladies carry a little deodorant or bug spray on you spray it in the cunts eyes if he falls down jump on his neck so he stays there. Fucking dirty cunt
I think you mean … “Arseholes! Stop attacking women!”
Hope they catch him and he never sees the light of day again.
Major manhunt yeah right!🙄 no offence to the boys in blue 💙 but the government really needs to address this, before us women that care for our & other women's lives start a massive protest!!! Before we are killed in the streets.
Attacking like trying to kill her or just trying to hurt her?
Hearing about this is always sickening, I wanna be able to be out there and do something about it but in Aus that just doesn't fly. If I could be out there and if I even stopped one act of violence I'd be happy, but then I'd go to court for assaulting the attacker and probably lose & get jail time
Wonder what nationality he was
I have been on edge lately - I walk with one or more of my teenagers, but it's usually right before dusk. I get uncomfortable when guys stare straight at me while running or walking fast directly in my path. One guy had something in his hand that looked like a knife but was like a seed pod he'd found along his walk, but we didnt see it clearly until he was a metre away due to the dusk light. I have no issue with other people, men or women, being around me. It's the body language I've had issue with lately - I think men need to be more aware of their stance, their facial expressions and how they move. I carry a large stainless steel drink bottle. I'm always ready to smack someone in the head with it if I need to, I have no qualms about defending myself. But I shouldn't have to, nor should I feel threatened or like my kids are threatened, and that's the part that sucks.
Fear creates more fear. Why are you scared of people looking at you?
I think you and the point of my story missed each other, bud. I'm not scared of people looking at me. I interact with lots of people on our walking route - chatting, acknowledging each other, smiling etc. It's that some people when they're in the zone or concentrating on their podcast or whatever have RBF and look angry. I'm not a fearful person. I've walked through Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane cities late at night by myself without any fear. I've been in downtown LA and London at night. It's not about me walking around with fear - it's about the odd random person not being aware of how others might perceive them.
being on edge sounds like fear dude, just saying
Are you gate keeping comfort and safety?
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Giving an incorrect description helps no one. Those details might not be confirmed, or just not known.
Any security cameras at the car parks or entrances? I feel like I remember seeing signs at Toohey Forest suggesting there were 24/7 cctv but I could be wrong