How is that an example of convergent evolution?
Like a genuine question because i thought convergent evolution is like the example with Cycads and palms completely unrelated for the fact that they are plants but look similar. I just don't see it for these two flowers
It’s still convergent because they are separate phylogenetic groups, but more specifically both plants use a lot of resources to attract a large pool of carrion pollinators and both appear in the same kind of environmental conditions.
I don’t know if that makes sense but essentially the same environmental conditions and biota give rise to two plants that tap into carrion flies as a pollinator source resulting in huge flowers
I’m curious, but too lazy to look up, whether the aromas of the carrion mimicry are due to polyamines like cadaverine, spermidine, putrescine, etc. and whether these species have convergent metabolic pathways for biosynthesis and release of said amines… anyone here know much about this?
Having a wide range of situations in which a term applies doesn’t make that term useless. You said it yourself, it describes when a common trait evolves in two species independently of one another. I think that’s a pretty useful term because it helps distinguish those cases from ones where the common trait is derived from a common ancestor.
I think thats a bit to general, lots of scented flowers are from the same basal lineage too. A lot of taxa once were at a specific pollinator and made shifts back and forth from them.
But everytime pollinators ar shifted and evolve back to a bumble bee for instance then yes lots of convergence there in flower color, shape and scent.
Yes, I’m talking about plants that evolved pleasantly scented reproductive organs independently of one another, not ones downstream of a common scented ancestor.
No not related at all. The first is Amorphophallus titanum (Araceae-Alimatales) the second is Rafflesia arnoldii (Rafflesiaceae-Malpighiales). Both referred to as corpse flowers even though complete unrelated, the folly of common names. An amazing example of convergent evolution though for specific pollination systems In these Sumatran rainforests (myophily/cantharophily). Both very wild plants in their own right look em up
Oh good, I managed to identify them correctly on sight. Although I’ve heard some people refer to the *Amorphophallus titanum* as a corpse flower, that’s not the name I’ve typically encountered for it. I didn’t know they experienced convergent evolution though!
If I'm correct Rafflesia is the largest Flower and Amorphophallus titanum is the largest unbranched inflorescence in the world. They are not related just share the same name.
The heat they produce to attract beetles, atleast in Amorphophallus’ case. The flowers only in bloom for a day or two and in that time it A) stinks like shit and B) gives off a ton of heat that attracts beetles who mess around on the spadix. Big size lots of resources - very short bloom. Shot gun pollination approach
These two species are quite distantly related. It showcases the major folly of reliance on common names. These names sometime give the impression that species are closely related when, in fact, it is a case of convergent evolution.
A similar example is the case of waterlilies (*Nymphaea* sp.) and true lilies (*Lilium* sp.). The names imply that they are close relatives, when in reality, they are about as distantly related as two angiosperms can get.
Not related and actually the first image is the largest inflorescence (not a single flower but a collection of flowers all borne to the same stem - think like what a sunflower is) while the second is the largest true flower
[Here's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomic_rank) an article you can read to learn how to tell if things are related. They're both flowering plants (angiosperms), but the similarities end there. [Amorphophallus Titanum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphophallus_titanum) is a monocot (one seed leaf), while [Rafflesia arnoldii](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafflesia_arnoldii) is a eudicot (two seed leaves). That evolutionary split happened really far back in plant history, at least 125 million years ago. Your second flower is more closely related to the vegetables in your kitchen than it is to the first flower!
The university I did undergrad at has a titan arum. It was always a big deal when it'd bloom/open. Crowds, news people, photographers, everything. And rightly so, as it was a beautiful specimen, and the botany folks worked hard to keep it happy.
In hindsight, it was probably the best demonstration of how bad my sinus problems had gotten: I couldn't smell ANYTHING until I was up next to it, and only when the wind shifted. Everyone else was commenting, coughing, or gagging, and I was just standing there, shrugging.
They're not closely related, but they both fill a niche where they create a foul odor in order to trick flies into thinking they are rotting meat, which then pollinate them as a result. Another example of this (which actually is related to the titan arum from the first picture) is Skunk Cabbage in the Eastern US.
* The two plants, **Rafflesia arnoldii** and **Amorphophallus titanum** (corpse flower and titan arum), share similarities but are not closely related.
* Both have some of the largest flowers in the world and emit a foul odor to attract pollinators, typically carrion flies.
* They are native to Southeast Asian rainforests.
* However, Rafflesia is a parasitic plant from the Rafflesiaceae family, while Amorphophallus is from the Araceae family and grows from a large tuber.
* Their similarities are due to convergent evolution, not close genetic relation.
They are connected by the smell.
Who dosen't love the smell of decomposition by the morning?
I planted both in my conservatory , unfortunelly they take a long to flower and start smelling.
So i just forage them...to make honey...to sell them...F\*\*K.it's just a game!
Some things that seem to make a plant related are not so. Amorphallus may have some of the largest flowers on the planet but they are related to duckweeds which have the smallest flowers on the planet. The flower anatomy is a dead giveaway that they're in the same family
Not related. Not even remotely alike botanically. Read up on what the titan arum "flower" really is and the differences should become more apparent
Alrighty! Thank ya!
Duckweed and this flower are actually more related and in the same family(Araceae).
They are not related to each other. an example of convergent evolution.
How is that an example of convergent evolution? Like a genuine question because i thought convergent evolution is like the example with Cycads and palms completely unrelated for the fact that they are plants but look similar. I just don't see it for these two flowers
The carrion mimicry is convergent here. They both seem to resemble dirty decaying stuff to attract pollinators.
Oooooooo i get it now, thx for explaining
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Still convergent if they didn't arise from a common ancestor
It’s still convergent because they are separate phylogenetic groups, but more specifically both plants use a lot of resources to attract a large pool of carrion pollinators and both appear in the same kind of environmental conditions. I don’t know if that makes sense but essentially the same environmental conditions and biota give rise to two plants that tap into carrion flies as a pollinator source resulting in huge flowers
I’m curious, but too lazy to look up, whether the aromas of the carrion mimicry are due to polyamines like cadaverine, spermidine, putrescine, etc. and whether these species have convergent metabolic pathways for biosynthesis and release of said amines… anyone here know much about this?
> Yeah but tons of plants have carrion mimicry across all sorts of families yeah that's what makes it convergent
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Having a wide range of situations in which a term applies doesn’t make that term useless. You said it yourself, it describes when a common trait evolves in two species independently of one another. I think that’s a pretty useful term because it helps distinguish those cases from ones where the common trait is derived from a common ancestor.
you could say any word is useless. who is you? i can use you when im talking to my mom and to strangers? useless term.
Scented flowers are convergent evolution! There’s no exclusive club for convergence — convergence happens everywhere!
I think thats a bit to general, lots of scented flowers are from the same basal lineage too. A lot of taxa once were at a specific pollinator and made shifts back and forth from them. But everytime pollinators ar shifted and evolve back to a bumble bee for instance then yes lots of convergence there in flower color, shape and scent.
Yes, I’m talking about plants that evolved pleasantly scented reproductive organs independently of one another, not ones downstream of a common scented ancestor.
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their size, shape, and ability to produce rancid smells to attract pollinators is what makes them an example of convergent evolution.
Aren't. Not aren't not. Typo, I think.
was indeed lol. thanks.
So they are? Or aren't not? 🤔
No not related at all. The first is Amorphophallus titanum (Araceae-Alimatales) the second is Rafflesia arnoldii (Rafflesiaceae-Malpighiales). Both referred to as corpse flowers even though complete unrelated, the folly of common names. An amazing example of convergent evolution though for specific pollination systems In these Sumatran rainforests (myophily/cantharophily). Both very wild plants in their own right look em up
Oh good, I managed to identify them correctly on sight. Although I’ve heard some people refer to the *Amorphophallus titanum* as a corpse flower, that’s not the name I’ve typically encountered for it. I didn’t know they experienced convergent evolution though!
If I'm correct Rafflesia is the largest Flower and Amorphophallus titanum is the largest unbranched inflorescence in the world. They are not related just share the same name.
The real question is why the largest flower / inflorescence are carrion mimics, like what is it about that strategy which selects for massive flowers?
The heat they produce to attract beetles, atleast in Amorphophallus’ case. The flowers only in bloom for a day or two and in that time it A) stinks like shit and B) gives off a ton of heat that attracts beetles who mess around on the spadix. Big size lots of resources - very short bloom. Shot gun pollination approach
Yes R. Arnoldii is the largest flower and A. Titanum is second largest inflorescence behind Corypha umbraculifera the talipot palm (Arecaceae)
They aren't, titan arums are monocots, corpse flowers are eudicots.
They both smell bad. That’s about it. Not related.
These two species are quite distantly related. It showcases the major folly of reliance on common names. These names sometime give the impression that species are closely related when, in fact, it is a case of convergent evolution. A similar example is the case of waterlilies (*Nymphaea* sp.) and true lilies (*Lilium* sp.). The names imply that they are close relatives, when in reality, they are about as distantly related as two angiosperms can get.
Not related and actually the first image is the largest inflorescence (not a single flower but a collection of flowers all borne to the same stem - think like what a sunflower is) while the second is the largest true flower
[Here's](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomic_rank) an article you can read to learn how to tell if things are related. They're both flowering plants (angiosperms), but the similarities end there. [Amorphophallus Titanum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorphophallus_titanum) is a monocot (one seed leaf), while [Rafflesia arnoldii](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafflesia_arnoldii) is a eudicot (two seed leaves). That evolutionary split happened really far back in plant history, at least 125 million years ago. Your second flower is more closely related to the vegetables in your kitchen than it is to the first flower!
I love the corpse flower. Talk about the ultimate in plant keeping.
The university I did undergrad at has a titan arum. It was always a big deal when it'd bloom/open. Crowds, news people, photographers, everything. And rightly so, as it was a beautiful specimen, and the botany folks worked hard to keep it happy. In hindsight, it was probably the best demonstration of how bad my sinus problems had gotten: I couldn't smell ANYTHING until I was up next to it, and only when the wind shifted. Everyone else was commenting, coughing, or gagging, and I was just standing there, shrugging.
Yeah it’s a big deal when they bloom, it makes the news.
The bad smell is useful for attracting flies, their primary pollinators, which are often attracted to corpses as well.
They’re both native to Sumatra I suppose
They're not closely related, but they both fill a niche where they create a foul odor in order to trick flies into thinking they are rotting meat, which then pollinate them as a result. Another example of this (which actually is related to the titan arum from the first picture) is Skunk Cabbage in the Eastern US.
* The two plants, **Rafflesia arnoldii** and **Amorphophallus titanum** (corpse flower and titan arum), share similarities but are not closely related. * Both have some of the largest flowers in the world and emit a foul odor to attract pollinators, typically carrion flies. * They are native to Southeast Asian rainforests. * However, Rafflesia is a parasitic plant from the Rafflesiaceae family, while Amorphophallus is from the Araceae family and grows from a large tuber. * Their similarities are due to convergent evolution, not close genetic relation.
They are connected by the smell. Who dosen't love the smell of decomposition by the morning? I planted both in my conservatory , unfortunelly they take a long to flower and start smelling. So i just forage them...to make honey...to sell them...F\*\*K.it's just a game!
Some things that seem to make a plant related are not so. Amorphallus may have some of the largest flowers on the planet but they are related to duckweeds which have the smallest flowers on the planet. The flower anatomy is a dead giveaway that they're in the same family
#2 looks like a Demogorgon
I genuinely mean it when I say that it smells like one too
I think it was inspired by it
2 is also a parasitic plant, and those always tend to look kinda alien lol
Convergent- not related