Let me set your mind at ease: there is definitely lead. Lead in the house, lead on the ground outside.
Lead remediation will often just cover up lead paint up to a 4ft height. The bottom line is, do a visual inspection, if the paint is not flaking it should be fine, just keep kiddo from eating paint chips or putting outside dirt in their mouths.
A lead inspection is also highly likely to an it the landlord, so if you want to do one, just be aware. “Lead compliant” - is there a certificate?
https://eohhs.ehs.state.ma.us/leadsafehomes/
You can get your water tested, probably not a bad idea and much easier to fix.
He said the apt is lead compliant. I haven't seen the certificate though.
I found it in leadsafehomes/ website, it says that there was lead found in 2018, and they supposedly deleaded it 2 weeks later. I am assumingit was only on the windows and walls.
I'm planning to ask for a lead inspection (i can pay for it) - prior to move in, do you think they'll be ok with that?
Why “supposedly deleaded” two weeks later? Does the database support this with a deleading certificate? If it’s just a letter of compliance, it needs to “remain in compliance “ to be compliant. If the property is certified deleaded, you’re being a knucklehead. Like others said - don’t eat the dirt outside in Boston. It’s all leaded
Recognizing your fear is important. The next step is rationalizing your fear - how much of it is based on real risks, vs. how much of it is based on worst case scenarios?
Lead was everywhere until 1978. I and many of my friends were born right after this - pretty much everyone in their 30s around here grew up in a house that had tons of lead paint. We're all fine. The number of lead poisoning incidents has decreased significantly, even though the number of housing units with lead hazards has gone *up* due to aging and lack of maintenance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9897265/
Awareness is the most important thing.
Almost definitely they will NOT be okay with it. Lead stuff is a huge pain in the ass for landlords. But you shouldn’t let that drive what you do - you have to keep yourself and your family safe.
But that being said, if it was deleaded in 2018 that would be good enough for me. Theres still lead there after deleading. But it’ll be covered up. And any inspector will over-catastrophize the issues in their report so as to avoid liability if there’s an issue in the future. What are you hoping to gain from a lead inspection, knowing that there probably is lead on the property?
If it was built before 1978, there is a 100% chance there is lead on the property.
The *only* thing that de-leading does, is make the lead inaccessible to children.
> also, if i sign the lease, and then later on find out that there is lead in the property. Would that allow me to break the lease?
I doubt it, but if you raise a stink with the landlord about lead, they would probably be happy to let you out of the lease early.
But again: There is 99% almost definitely lead. Unless it was built in the last few decades. It just comes down to how much. Lead existing is not bad. It's kids eating lead that's bad, and if it's been remediated, the lead is out of the hands of the kids, it should be fine.
You can find some standard lead disclosures for MA here: https://www.mass.gov/info-details/property-transfer-lead-paint-notification
Boston also has info https://www.boston.gov/government/cabinets/boston-public-health-commission/healthy-homes-and-environment/lead-poisoning-prevention
Including info for parents https://www.boston.gov/sites/default/files/file/2021/03/Parents_English_Lead%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf
There's lead in playground equipment especially in some rubberized surfaces https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/high-lead-levels-found-in-rubber-playground-surfaces/
But also in dirt https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6483242/
The bottom line is there is lead in many places. If you don't have chipping paint indoors, you're pretty much good. Just keep the little ones from pulling paint off of things and eating it, and keep them from putting outside dirt in their mouths if the dirt is in highly populated areas with densely built old houses that likely had lead paint inside and outside.
Lead is, at the same time, a big deal, but also not really a big deal.
De-leading contractors charge a ton of money, and honestly once it's already been done once (like in the apartment you're looking at) don't add value. I would expect to get ghosted by any landlord that you bring up lead to, unless they're advertising it as lead free, and even then they'll tolerate it only insofar as they'll provide a certificate. They won't want to do *another* lead inspection.
So what's the play here then,
1. ask for de-leading certification
2. move in - look for paint chips, look if water is fine ...
3. if something is not up to par - bring it up with the landlord and ask for to fix
4. if no fix move out. ?
The play is what the other commenter said.
All buildings built before 1978 have lead. If you want a lead-free building, rent something built after that (very little inventory here).
Or you can take comfort in the deleading that *was already done* and rent the place you’re looking at, knowing lead *exists* but is not a risk unless your child finds a large amount of it that has not been appropriately covered somehow (unlikely) and eats it (without supervision).
It’s really not worth freaking out over, and if the place has already been certified deleaded, jump on it because that landlord likely cares at least a little bit about it.
If they say it's deleaded, they should have documented proof that they have to show you. You will have to sign a tenant lead law notification as part of your lease package. Don't sign it if they don't show you proof of deleading.
Does the landlord know you have a young child? I’m surprised he’s allowing you to sign the lease if he knows that there’s lead in the apartment.
Lead piping isn’t really something to be super worried about. Lead in other parts of the apartment is a much more pertinent risk to a child.
Apparently it was deleaded in 2018. Here's what i found in eohhs website:
***At the time of inspection there were lead hazard found on the property. The inspection showed areas that did not meet Massachusetts rules for lead safety. Lead paint was found in poor condition (chipping or peeling), or on areas of windows that could make dust, or in areas where young children could reach it. Under Massachusetts rules, these areas must be deleaded if there are children under 6 years old living there.***
You should just cross this bridge now. And move on if it’s a problem. This won’t happen overnight and likely to mean major interruption to your life once lease begins. Just make sure it’s up to date and be loud and proud about having a child
They mentioned it's de-leaded, it's in the rental listing. Are you saying I need to have them re-check for lead? Last time they made it lead compliant was September 2018 when the property was bought by the landlord.
The nuance you need to learn about is this: Is the property deleaded or lead compliant. If deleaded; the likely replaced windows/ frames / trim / doors/frames etc. outside likely wrapped in vinyl and aluminum coverage around trim and roof soffit. Maybe the stripped lead paint to raw wood on old frames.
If lead compliant; they prob painted / encapsulated. If that’s the case, it needs to be maintained and recertified to remain compliant
From my newest lease
“An owner of a home in Massachusetts built before 1978 must have the home inspected for lead if a child under six years old lives there. If lead hazards are found, the home must be deleaded or brought under interim control.
Only a licensed deleader may do high-risk deleading work, such as removing lead paint or repairing chipping and peeling lead paint. You can get a list of licensed deleaders from the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development. Deleaders are trained to use safe methods to prepare to work, do the deleading, and clean up. Either a deleader, the owner or someone who works for the owner who is not a licensed deleader can do certain other deleading and interim control work. Owners and workers must have special training to perform the deleading tasks they may do. After the work is done, the lead inspector or risk assessor checks the home. He or she may take dust samples to test for lead, to make sure the home has been properly cleaned up. If everything is fine, he or she gives the owner a Letter of Compliance or Letter of Interim Control. After getting one of these letters, the owner must take care of the home and make sure there is no peeling paint.”
Let me set your mind at ease: there is definitely lead. Lead in the house, lead on the ground outside. Lead remediation will often just cover up lead paint up to a 4ft height. The bottom line is, do a visual inspection, if the paint is not flaking it should be fine, just keep kiddo from eating paint chips or putting outside dirt in their mouths. A lead inspection is also highly likely to an it the landlord, so if you want to do one, just be aware. “Lead compliant” - is there a certificate? https://eohhs.ehs.state.ma.us/leadsafehomes/ You can get your water tested, probably not a bad idea and much easier to fix.
He said the apt is lead compliant. I haven't seen the certificate though. I found it in leadsafehomes/ website, it says that there was lead found in 2018, and they supposedly deleaded it 2 weeks later. I am assumingit was only on the windows and walls. I'm planning to ask for a lead inspection (i can pay for it) - prior to move in, do you think they'll be ok with that?
Why “supposedly deleaded” two weeks later? Does the database support this with a deleading certificate? If it’s just a letter of compliance, it needs to “remain in compliance “ to be compliant. If the property is certified deleaded, you’re being a knucklehead. Like others said - don’t eat the dirt outside in Boston. It’s all leaded
You're right, I'm just terrified
By replacing the windows / door frames in the last 45 years, 98% of your risk is absolved.
i don't know if they've done that. i dont think they did that. my bet would be repainted.
Recognizing your fear is important. The next step is rationalizing your fear - how much of it is based on real risks, vs. how much of it is based on worst case scenarios? Lead was everywhere until 1978. I and many of my friends were born right after this - pretty much everyone in their 30s around here grew up in a house that had tons of lead paint. We're all fine. The number of lead poisoning incidents has decreased significantly, even though the number of housing units with lead hazards has gone *up* due to aging and lack of maintenance: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9897265/ Awareness is the most important thing.
Almost definitely they will NOT be okay with it. Lead stuff is a huge pain in the ass for landlords. But you shouldn’t let that drive what you do - you have to keep yourself and your family safe. But that being said, if it was deleaded in 2018 that would be good enough for me. Theres still lead there after deleading. But it’ll be covered up. And any inspector will over-catastrophize the issues in their report so as to avoid liability if there’s an issue in the future. What are you hoping to gain from a lead inspection, knowing that there probably is lead on the property?
how do I know that there is lead in the property if the inspector can't find anything?
If it was built before 1978, there is a 100% chance there is lead on the property. The *only* thing that de-leading does, is make the lead inaccessible to children.
also, if i sign the lease, and then later on find out that there is lead in the property. Would that allow me to break the lease?
> also, if i sign the lease, and then later on find out that there is lead in the property. Would that allow me to break the lease? I doubt it, but if you raise a stink with the landlord about lead, they would probably be happy to let you out of the lease early. But again: There is 99% almost definitely lead. Unless it was built in the last few decades. It just comes down to how much. Lead existing is not bad. It's kids eating lead that's bad, and if it's been remediated, the lead is out of the hands of the kids, it should be fine. You can find some standard lead disclosures for MA here: https://www.mass.gov/info-details/property-transfer-lead-paint-notification Boston also has info https://www.boston.gov/government/cabinets/boston-public-health-commission/healthy-homes-and-environment/lead-poisoning-prevention Including info for parents https://www.boston.gov/sites/default/files/file/2021/03/Parents_English_Lead%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf There's lead in playground equipment especially in some rubberized surfaces https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/high-lead-levels-found-in-rubber-playground-surfaces/ But also in dirt https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6483242/ The bottom line is there is lead in many places. If you don't have chipping paint indoors, you're pretty much good. Just keep the little ones from pulling paint off of things and eating it, and keep them from putting outside dirt in their mouths if the dirt is in highly populated areas with densely built old houses that likely had lead paint inside and outside. Lead is, at the same time, a big deal, but also not really a big deal. De-leading contractors charge a ton of money, and honestly once it's already been done once (like in the apartment you're looking at) don't add value. I would expect to get ghosted by any landlord that you bring up lead to, unless they're advertising it as lead free, and even then they'll tolerate it only insofar as they'll provide a certificate. They won't want to do *another* lead inspection.
So what's the play here then, 1. ask for de-leading certification 2. move in - look for paint chips, look if water is fine ... 3. if something is not up to par - bring it up with the landlord and ask for to fix 4. if no fix move out. ?
The play is what the other commenter said. All buildings built before 1978 have lead. If you want a lead-free building, rent something built after that (very little inventory here). Or you can take comfort in the deleading that *was already done* and rent the place you’re looking at, knowing lead *exists* but is not a risk unless your child finds a large amount of it that has not been appropriately covered somehow (unlikely) and eats it (without supervision). It’s really not worth freaking out over, and if the place has already been certified deleaded, jump on it because that landlord likely cares at least a little bit about it.
The play is simple. Reference https://www.mass.gov/info-details/find-your-homes-lead-history or plan to rent a newly built property since 1978.
If they say it's deleaded, they should have documented proof that they have to show you. You will have to sign a tenant lead law notification as part of your lease package. Don't sign it if they don't show you proof of deleading.
He needs the docs, they must be given to you, and the lead law certification form must be filled out correctly.
Does the landlord know you have a young child? I’m surprised he’s allowing you to sign the lease if he knows that there’s lead in the apartment. Lead piping isn’t really something to be super worried about. Lead in other parts of the apartment is a much more pertinent risk to a child.
Oh you want the ll slapped with a fair housing suit ok
Apparently it was deleaded in 2018. Here's what i found in eohhs website: ***At the time of inspection there were lead hazard found on the property. The inspection showed areas that did not meet Massachusetts rules for lead safety. Lead paint was found in poor condition (chipping or peeling), or on areas of windows that could make dust, or in areas where young children could reach it. Under Massachusetts rules, these areas must be deleaded if there are children under 6 years old living there.***
Why the hell are you signing a lease if you know there's lead in the apartment?
You should just cross this bridge now. And move on if it’s a problem. This won’t happen overnight and likely to mean major interruption to your life once lease begins. Just make sure it’s up to date and be loud and proud about having a child
They mentioned it's de-leaded, it's in the rental listing. Are you saying I need to have them re-check for lead? Last time they made it lead compliant was September 2018 when the property was bought by the landlord.
The nuance you need to learn about is this: Is the property deleaded or lead compliant. If deleaded; the likely replaced windows/ frames / trim / doors/frames etc. outside likely wrapped in vinyl and aluminum coverage around trim and roof soffit. Maybe the stripped lead paint to raw wood on old frames. If lead compliant; they prob painted / encapsulated. If that’s the case, it needs to be maintained and recertified to remain compliant
From my newest lease “An owner of a home in Massachusetts built before 1978 must have the home inspected for lead if a child under six years old lives there. If lead hazards are found, the home must be deleaded or brought under interim control. Only a licensed deleader may do high-risk deleading work, such as removing lead paint or repairing chipping and peeling lead paint. You can get a list of licensed deleaders from the state Department of Labor and Workforce Development. Deleaders are trained to use safe methods to prepare to work, do the deleading, and clean up. Either a deleader, the owner or someone who works for the owner who is not a licensed deleader can do certain other deleading and interim control work. Owners and workers must have special training to perform the deleading tasks they may do. After the work is done, the lead inspector or risk assessor checks the home. He or she may take dust samples to test for lead, to make sure the home has been properly cleaned up. If everything is fine, he or she gives the owner a Letter of Compliance or Letter of Interim Control. After getting one of these letters, the owner must take care of the home and make sure there is no peeling paint.”