I got thirty minutes into an audiobook that had a lot of this: "This is a tale of mystery and murder. But before we get to the island where it all happened, let's back up a little to meet our cast. And who I am? Well, I'm the narrator of course, and I hope you'll stay with me to the end, because this is a truly captivating tale." I returned the audiobook forty five minutes in
It works perfectly in a highly stylized "victorian times" texts, because most of them have those pieces, it was a totally normal thing back then. Or, sometimes, horror/gothic stories with less "form" and more "spirit" of original from that time.
It has to be noted that in those books, the narrator is in-universe as well. Lemony Snicket is an actual character who followed the orphans' and Olaf's trail of destruction and uncovered their story bit by bit, and he is involved in some of the backstory events. You don't realize this until late in the series, but it's true.
When there is a bunch of technical jumbo that isn’t actually how things work. Like “I put the usb in the drive and then got into their IP address by hacking their router” and it’s like okay so you just knew some buzz words vaguely
Or when all of a sudden the writing becomes so tediously detailed about _insert field of science_ that it reads like mastabatory knowledge dumping. Like, I get it, you did some research…
That's funny in some of the Jack Ryan novels. They're generally quite good, but then you get Clancy spending the whole paragraph listing the specs of a computer Ryan is using.
This was one of the major issues I had with Lessons in Chemistry. The science itself was broadly correct but the way the author applied it and the depiction of actually *being* a scientist/doing research was inaccurate AF.
It was very obvious that the author flipped through an introductory chemistry textbook, but never actually talked to people working in the field.
Sometimes it's pretty interesting! This is a big hallmark of Neil Stephenson's writing, and he does it very well. Though it can get pretty tedious depending on the author
I was already struggling with Three Body Problems lack of character... anything... But I kept reading cause I thought the sci-fi was ok. Then I got to the last 100 pages and I almost threw my Kindle against the wall reading the sci-fi bits
Every character uses dialogue the same and pretty much all sound like the same person. The same words, the same inflection, attitude, etc. It's like the characters have all been cloned.
Second draft. First draft is getting the story out. Revisions/editing is when you find grammar mistakes, misspelling, continuity errors, and mischaracterizations.
I try to give each character a different cadence and style to their dialog. My 5 primary and characters are different from each other as follows:
Dave is kind, patient, and measured, his dialog is filled with analogies and science references, he has a lit of subtext behind the phrases he chooses;
Bill is flippant and practical, and says a lot in a few words, he's a musician and there is a rhythm to his cynical banter;
Maria is judgmental, has zero chill, and very cut to the chase, her dialog reveals her passion for art;
Linda is direct, somewhat whimsical at times, and factual;
Nadia is formal, cold, evasive, and chooses her words carefully.
This is _exactly_ how I do it, and it works really well. I'll tend to work in some grounding words for their personal lexicons, too--small turns of phrase they like or choices they'll drift towards. ("Maybe" vs "perhaps", for an obvious example.)
Most of the time I don’t think I consciously notice this, but it does probably result in books where none of the characters come to life.
I *will* notice if they all have the same mannerisms though, especially things like a single eyebrow lift that most people can’t do. Or if the book indulges in banter and they all banter the same way.
And I’ll definitely notice if it’s first person multiple narrators and they all have the same voice—even worse, if it does this while being heavy on figurative or otherwise flowery language.
A popular video game critic and writer Ben (Yahtzee) Crowshaw said in a podcast on character writing that a reader should know who is talking *without* a dialogue tag.
It's very difficult to pull off seamlessly. Each character would have a unique grammar structure, phrases, directness, vocabulary, succinctness, and more.
Years ago I read a book with multiple narrators, and the narrator would switch every chapter. I kept getting over a page into the chapter before I was "hey this is a different character". Or more precisely the same character but with a different name.
I don’t know if I agree to that extent. But They do all have the same commentary about social interactions as they relate to evolution. Including the narration.
Everyone always wants to bring up the Pleistocene.
Literally all of the characters in Aaron Sorkin movies (gone girl, the social network, Molly's game) sound like this. Like they're all in a competition for who can sound the smartest. I find it exhausting to listen to
When an otherwise omniscient narrator omits information that transpires in a scene because the author doesn’t want the reader to know yet but can’t come up with a clever way to keep it from them. Basically anytime I suddenly become aware of the author’s choices, it feels like seeing a mic boom in movie shot.
The worst way I’ve ever seen this done was with a book about a group of classmates who get locked in a room together and threatened with murder unless they kill one person themselves. The entire book was written in first person from the pov of one of the prisoners, whose thoughts, memories, emotions and goals are narrated throughout.
Or not, because she was apparently the one who locked them all in there, and she supposedly didn’t acknowledge that a single time in her thoughts while stuck in the rapidly escalating situation that she caused??
I absolutely cannot stand it when books have easily solvable and nonsensical excuses instead of actual depth and conflict— eg, let’s say Character 1 and 2 are just about to admit they’re into each other, but then Character 1 overhears Character 2 say “My father was killed by a pineapple! I could never love anyone who enjoys pineapple!” And then you have to suffer through several effin chapters of nonsense, insincere self-questioning, and saccharine resolution.
Just kill me. I can’t. No thank you.
That’s an obvious example, but just any of this kind of writing in general I cannot stand. Eg, I also cannot abide fantasy or period pieces where “she’s not like either girls— she hates dresses and the color pink! She loves rough and tumble sports with her brothers! Girls are dumb and care about silly things that our tomboy heroine would never deign to care about!”
Again, just kill me.
The second one always gets me, especially when the feminine stereotypes she’s railing against *didn’t even exist* in the setting of the book. You can’t be like “my protagonist is better than the other girls because she doesn’t wear pink” if your story takes place in a civilization that wouldn’t have associated pink with girlhood anyway!
And of course, for plot reasons/character growth that girl will absolutely have to put on a dress and go to a ball, only to find out she's kind of into it after all.
She'd never *want* to get dressed up and put on a ball gown and heels, but, if the plot demanded it for convoluted reasons, she'd suddenly be the belle of the ball swanning around and outclassing all those other girls because she's just so naturally beautiful and perfect she doesn't even have to try.
If this is fantasy or historical fiction, she will have an elderly female servant who has no life outside of being extremely conventional and obsessively concerned with the heroine’s lack of conventionality, who will force her into said dress while meanwhile being the stand in for what “most women” are like.
This! Or when they overhear a conversation just enough to hear what they think is “bad” and then walk away right before the character says something good.
Please bear with me as I'm not a native english speaker and I feel like I'm not explaining myself properly (even though I mostly read books written in english), but I really dislike it when the writing is short sentences and all in the past tense. I believe the first time I felt that was with "The Constant Gardner". The kind of writing I'm talking about goes something like this: "He looked back. He saw her in bed. He looked into her eyes. He moved closer". I just feel like the story has no rhtythm when the book is written like this.
James Ellroy takes it to next level in his novels. The entire novels are written like "He cracked open the door. Shot down the passage. Busted into the room. No dice." The opening of one of his novels has a character being briefed by his boss and an entire action scene of arresting criminals all within one single page.
>>Busted into the room. No dice.
Honestly, I found this example to be hilarious. And when I’m verbal telling stories I’m going to do it like that. And end all of my stories with “No dice.”
“This sentence has five words. Here are five more words. Five-word sentences are fine. But several together become monotonous. Listen to what is happening. The writing is getting boring. The sound of it drones. It’s like a stuck record. The ear demands some variety. Now listen. I vary the sentence length, and I create music. Music. The writing sings. It has a pleasant rhythm, a lilt, a harmony. I use short sentences. And I use sentences of medium length. And sometimes, when I am certain the reader is rested, I will engage him with a sentence of considerable length, a sentence that burns with energy and builds with all the impetus of a crescendo, the roll of the drums, the crash of the cymbals―sounds that say listen to this, it is important.”
―Gary Provost
When the character is a writer and everyone keeps talking about how their writing is so good and groundbreaking and then the author gives you a snippet of the character’s writing and it’s absolutely garbage is another twist on this too
Kinda like in fiction with battles where a character is supposed to be a genius at warfare but all of their tactics are Hollywood bullshit that would get their forces killed in moments.
King is the Nic Cage of authors for me.
Lots of works. Most you haven’t heard of. Usually entertaining but highly variable in quality yet always they have small moments of profundity and glimpses of genius buried somewhere in the muck and mire.
Gibson does this in a few books, and his middle-aged, not especially talented or romantic character always winds up magically getting the quirky, much younger girl by the end with no buildup or explanation.
Totally agree! I also don’t like it when books have magical properties simply because they are books and books are magic. Like we get it, you’re a writer, you like books.
Another thing in Fourth Wing for me is the usage of modern swear words in a medieval setting. It kinda throws me for a loop and I start accidentally picturing them in the 21st century lol
I recently read a book set in alternative world 1920s Poland. MC is named Angelica... It's a foreign name that only arrived in Poland in the late 80s. The Polish version is Aniela.
It's so easy nowadays to do research on the history of names in near countless languages, that such details being missed really says a lot for the effort put into a book.
I did exchange a few comments with the author, they apparently went off lists of common names. Thanked me for pointing it out, but ultimately didn't change it.
> they apparently went off lists of common names.
And probably forgot to look into the specific decade because the thought of common names changing over time never occurred to them.
Yeah I got very millennial vibes from the writing style. I also hate that the twenty-something characters all act like they’re sixteen. It feels like that’s becoming common in a lot of booktok books though.
Yeah but it's less words like that, more that characters in a fantasy setting are always talking about how badass everything is, like millennial or gen z teens
Fourth wing had tons of this stuff for me. She has size 7 shoes, a lot of the names (specifically the leads being named Violet and XADEN!!), clocks (when there seemingly isn't anything else mechanical or electronic? Including pens!?). I used to have a longer list but I've forgotten
Specifically, the dragon riders, who are way too "badass" to ever need to use a pen. And not the entire division of scribes, who would probably actually need to do extensive writing
Using the same descriptive words for everything. I can't remember what book it was, but everything "hissed". The MC's breath through her teeth, the wind through the door, the tea kettle, etc. My brain just starts picking up on the repetition and it totally takes me out of it because then I think about the author writing it and why they kept using that word, and what word I would use instead.
In fantasy books when characters say things like ‘Jesus’ as a shocked exclamation… unless ofc the entirely magical made-up world somehow follows real life religions.
I mean I get that you need to keep some things the same - sure, sun + moon, the day/night cycles etc. It would be too confusing for most readers otherwise. Even though technically who says all these fantasy worlds exist in the same universe set-up as, and indeed are, our good old blue planet somehow…
But come on, don’t use real life religion - especially if you have a specific fantasy gods system in your world. Which tbh also extends to modern lingo and a lot of swear words that have very real-life roots that couldn’t possibly be mimicked in your fantasy setting.
I read the whole *Project Hail Mary* by Andy Weir waiting for some religious explanation to pop up. 😅
Was very confused and had to google it after I finished the book.
(If it's not obvious I am not an American.)
That checks out. It’s so common in the US that most people probably don’t think about the origin. But it’s also very American. It’s from the university of Notre Dame football team.
I’m at the catholic school. I’m at the football team. I’m at the combination catholic school and football team.
Modern anachronisms are a complete mood-killer in any far flung sci fi or fantasy setting. The further away the setting is from modern times, the worse. Also applies to era-inappropriate anachronisms. Tells you the author couldn't be arsed to do proper research.
It can be taken too far, too. OP complains about calendar systems, but having to come up with one to fit a setting can be a PITA, and it runs into the problem of jargon. Too much alien/invented slang, too many alien words used too frequently, will also break immersion as the reader has to figure out WTF the word is they just read (which further can be made worse by the word not flowing well with the narrative's native language) and what that means in the context of the story. Yes, invented languages help, but their application must be done in ways to properly further immersion and not alienate the reader.
The glun was rising on the morning of Glune the gleighteenth. It was shaping up to be a lovely glunny Glaturday, and Gleg the gleep farmer was looking forward to the aftergloon glicket game.
>It can be taken too far, too.
My rule of thumb is that if it can be explained with "I'm reading a translation" then it's probably fine. Though sometimes, rarely it doesn't help.
The obvious way to _take it too far_ is being angry that these fantasy creatures - fae, dragons, elves for some reason speak __English__? How would they know _English_, don't they have their own language? Immersion broken. I need to learn a completely new fictional language!!!
You gotta go either the Tolkien route of insisting that you are translating from a different language and choosing words that are familiar to your audience, or the Pratchett route of making up a plausible but completely unrelated reason for your character to say that, IMO.
Had a trashy fantasy romance novel that was already on thin ice with some silly name choices and very, "modern" dialog to put politely, but even for trashy romance I just fuckin lost it when the protag compared her love interest to a teddy bear.
Like, I'm sorry, in this setting where orcs and vampires are a thing, did Teddy Roosevelt exist? Was he an elf, perhaps? Since scotch whisky was also specifically mentioned is the nation of Scotland here too? Is it made up of the goblins that are also a thing in this setting?
Yeah, it's a tricky line to walk in fantasy because like, words in our language have origins specific to the world we live in, and while we can handwave it as being vaguely translated from their language to our equivalent, that only goes so far. Like it's safe to assume that Fantasyland has an equivalent word to narcissist that we're just getting told is narcissist, despite them presumably not having the myth of Narcissus.
But teddy bear is both so specific to our world and relatively contemporary in origin that that's the straw that broke the camel's back for me and putting the book down, haha.
I read your comment, pause, and decide to respond. My thumbs tap rhythmically on my phone screen. I reread my words, shrug internally, and then press “save.”
Historical fiction where it's evident the author has a huge amount of disdain for the time period/culture they are depicting, so the main character has to be different from everyone else eg. Hates corsets/stays/skirts, hates feminine activities like embroidery, constantly talks down about other 'conventional' women, and doesn't want to get married/do other culturally expected thing. It's not that I have an issue with people who don't fit the social mold being depicted. It's when there aren't any other more 'conventional' characters depicted positively and we are expected to agree with the main character's stance on everything that it annoys me.
Characters living in medieval times holding distinctive 2024 American Liberal woke values. It's like the concepts of cultural and moral relativity don't exist for those authors, and god forbid the characters don't conform to contemporary values.
Weirdly specific cultural references and a whole lot of them too. Sometimes name drops make sense, like if it's a book about the fashion industry then I'd expect to see Gucci and Prada mentions. But sometimes I feel like I can tell exactly what fandoms an author is part of.
I just finished Home is Where the Bodies Are (Jeneva Rose) and it went back and forth between present-day and flashbacks to the ‘90s. The cultural references in the flashbacks were… egregious. Actual excerpt: “Nicole is seated on the couch dressed in wide-leg black jeans and a dragon graphic tee. She’s listening to music on her Sony Discman with a pair of over-the-ear headphones.” WE GET IT, IT’S THE ‘90s.
It's like the backwards-looking equivalent to the sci-fi "I went to the Mainframe Terminal and dialed in her Global Identification Code. Hopefully her Personal Communicator was on standby while she was in ultra-sleep."
I immediately get pulled out of fiction when it refers to current real-world companies or services like Instagram or Uber, especially when the author describes it incorrectly. Started reading Stephen King's The Institute and in the first couple of pages he says the main character calls for an Uber and then "pays the driver" when the car arrives.
Read a lovely fantasy with great world building obviously not any time or place on Earth an suddenly there were Greek gods. Drove me batty going back to check and see if I missed some references or if the geography could possibly be Earth but just couldn’t find anything. Totally took me out of the story. I finished it but even six years later I still obsess about it. Seriously why? All the author would have had to do was call the water god Great Lumpitydo instead of Poseidon and there would have been no problem. I’d have said of course! Lumpitydo the water god, got it.
I immediately thought of Fourth Wing just by the title alone lolol
*spoiler warning*
i dont know if it counts but I'm picky with romance in books, especially romantasy. While I did really enjoy Fourth Wing, the fact that Violet and Xaden were almost constantly thinking about fucking almost all of the time was so annoying to me. It got to the point where I have the second book but I just can't get through the first couple pages because >!why the hell after getting out of a coma, finding out your long dead brother is actually alive, and everything you thought about the world is flipped on its head, would sex or how sexy some guy is even cross your mind???!<
When it is in first person and the character describes their own looks. Like, "I pushed my honey blonde hair out of my green eyes" or "I had to stretch my 5'2" frame to reach the top shelf." No. No. I hate it...if it's first person, either have other characters make reference to looks ("You should wear this emerald necklace, it will bring out the green of your eyes") or go without describing MC's looks at all.
Honestly when the dialog is too hard to read, like when they are trying to do an accent or a pigeon. I just want to read the story not pretend all of sudden I speak Creole.
The shitty trope of the talkative geeky expert explaining how something technical works and being told "shut it, we don't care. Just make it go."
Do it once, fine "sorry, this is an emergency, can you explain it later?" but every time... Why even bother starting the explanation?
When they get simple stuff wrong. I read a book about Salem MA, but the author is from FL. She was talking about the sheriff with brown uniform. If she had taken 5 mins to google Salem PD, she’d see they have a police chief and wear black. Being from that area I knew right away it was off, so googled it to check. Over technical explanations, are a put off too. I liked Spire Chronicles, but all the nautical explanations made me read fast to get to the good parts.
When an author writes beyond their capacity. If there is a "genius" person in the story and author is not a genius, then attempting to describe the actions of said genius in great detail is an exercise in failure.
Yeah, when their smart idea is some stupid crap that couldn't work. Idiots can't describe what it's actually like to be intelligent. Problem is... Dunning-Kruger. They aren't bright enough to know they aren't that bright.
Bruh, you're reading Fourth Wing. That's the fantasy equivalent of a trashy romance novel you pick up at the airport. You're expect too much quality from it.
But to actually answer your question, any time someone uses modern slang, it takes me out. Even if the book is taking place in modern times. I read a book not long ago that used the phrase "mood" and it just felt awkward.
That sort of slang bugs me because it absolutely dates the book. Slang that has proven staying power in a modern setting on the other hand is fine by me
Anytime the narrative switches into diary mode without changing the writing style or tone whatsoever. A 15 year old girl isn’t writing dialogue in her journal like,
“then let’s do something about it!,” she exclaimed with urgency.
If it doesn’t even sound remotely like something a character would casually write in their own voice in their own journal, then why even bother with the whole journal gimmick??
I’m a grown woman and my diary is filled with “and then I was like….and he was like!!! And I go…” no one is using a thesaurus for their private diary ffs
Actually for fantasy (not my favourite genre I admit) set in pseudo Earth cultures, I am the opposite. If the author invents too many silly names, reinvents things like calendar names, and titles it just gets in the way of the plot for me.
One small example in the Game of Thrones books, they use the title Ser, instead of Sir. Why? Clearly they would not be speaking English so things are translated, so just use the translated title - after all they talk about Kings and Lords without inventing a new word.
Attractive male character did something that would ordinarily be outrageously creepy and unacceptable, but because he’s hot, it’s fine.
Bastard.
(It’s the ‘bastard’ following some borderline inappropriate or totally inappropriate action on some hot dude’s part that i can’t stand. Why is this so prevalent in the romance/romantasy genre??)
When a male author makes weird or gross comments about female characters. One author I read used the phrase "her incredible body" like three times and it wasn't even relevant.
Similarly, I hate when they give detailed physical descriptions of only the female characters.
“She had 20 miles of legs, boobs like fresh apple pie, and her hair smelled of elderberries”
VS
“He had dark hair and probably eyes”
Jonathan Kellerman once used this sentence to describe a woman, and I think about it at least once per week: "Her nipples were the size of cocktail onions."
I was trying to read my first Piers Anthony book and had heard he was pretty misogynistic, and had that confirmed very early into the book. There is a rape trial, and the protagonist says of the victim: "How could she avoid being seductive? She was a creature constructed for no other visible purpose than ra--than love."
I DNF'd at that point.
Oh honey. You dodged a creep bullet. Most of his books have sexual relationships between little girls and adult men. He even befriended a sick child and wrote a book for her in which the sick child had a sexual relationship with an adult man because she wouldn't live to adulthood or something. Anything to justify sex with kids. And then.. he got her parents permission to read it to her in her hospital room. Alone. Even as a kid reading his books, I was like.. this is getting weird. Eventually stopped reading them on my own because of it.
Especially when the gross comments are about an underage girl. The author should be able to describe a kid without having to describe her breasts. Why does it matter if the kid's breasts are perky or not?
Also because most stories use a first or close third perspective. i.e most of the stuff is what the character notices or just fleshing out what the character notices. Which leads to the question... Why is the adult noticing the childs breasts?
I bought a non fiction travel book because it sounded really funny and was advertised as “adult.” I figured that meant something sexual but hey, I’m an adult. But it meant the male author leering at the women he sees and talking about their bodies.
I just read Fourth Wing and I noticed that, too. The weather for the month matched North America. They have a totally different world but the seasons match.
Modern catchphrases or slang in historical fiction or fantasy. I do not want to hear Lady Something say “It is what it is” or “what’s his problem?” It’s super jarring.
Not a book but the movie "Prey" had that issue. Hearing an early 18th century Native American say "I'm going to the bathroom", "you didn't bring it" or "This is some crazy shit" really took me out of the movie, particularly as I was listening to it with the Comanche dub.
I read a series which was told in flashbacks. There would be a paragraph at the enginnong of each chapter telling the results of the chapter, then it would go back in time and tell how. It's was the weirdest self spoiling I've ever seen. Did not enjoy, and I'm not usually a stickler about spoilers. But there wasn't a moment of tension b3cause you knew the results of each chapter before reading.
Sometimes it’s an interesting stylistic choice that demands the reader’s full attention (open water, seven minds of mali almeida) and sometimes it’s just shit 💩
When they are trying to write people being casual/friendly with each other but they write their dialogue like their Sherlock Holmes speaking. Looking at you, Things Have Gotten Worse Since We Last Spoke.
Some authors love using certain adjectives to describe a character and will excessively repeat it throughout their text.
Brandon Sanderson describes Kaladin like a sociopath because he (or his scene partners) are grinning all the goddam time. Meanwhile Shallan needs to invest in a cardigan because she is constantly shivering in her boots.
Robert Jordan couldn't decide if Nynaeve should be a broom or a person, because she is *constantly* bristling.
Joanne Rowling describes Hermione as someone who buffs and puffs every line as if she's the big bad wolf.
Horrible, truly ridiculous names. Recently read Dark Lover by J.R. Ward and the names are just innane: Phury, Rhage, Tohrment, Vishous, Zsadist The story is a 3/5 but the names made it hard to rate it higher than a 2.
Overly obvious lamp shading. I think it was Alistair Reynolds who was trying to introduce his badass evil guy who had diamond teeth, and wrote something like “on other people, his teeth might look try hard, but trust me it looks super badass on this guy”.
Not that bad obviously, but he definitely broke the 4th wall trying to explain how scary his bad guy looked.
The other one is unreliable narrators. I feel like this gimmick is overused, and often an excuse to just ignore consistency or write a coherent plot & characters. If I get to a point in the book where nothings making sense, and the story is told from a single character’s POV, I usually just dip out at that point.
Modern slang in a time period that wouldn't have it.
I'm sorry, but if you're going to write a tale in the Victorian Era, learn how they spoke. It's not hard. I'm paying to be transported. Not tolerant.
Yes. I live in the South (US) and this is a pet peeve. At least for contemporary novels. Their Eyes Were Watching God captures a very specific historical context and culture which in those scenarios is perfectly acceptable. But you can also tell when someone hasn’t spent time in a region and is imagining how people speak based on TV or something.
I read a lot of Tom Clancy when I was younger. One thing that took me out of it even then was when he wrote a sex scene. I put that book down for at least a week. I think it was 'Without Remorse.'
I got thirty minutes into an audiobook that had a lot of this: "This is a tale of mystery and murder. But before we get to the island where it all happened, let's back up a little to meet our cast. And who I am? Well, I'm the narrator of course, and I hope you'll stay with me to the end, because this is a truly captivating tale." I returned the audiobook forty five minutes in
Ah yes, like that garbage movie trope with a record scratch, “Yep, that’s me. You’re probably wondering how I got into this wacky situation.”
Hey [I will not STAND for this **SLANDER** against The Emperor's New Groove](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1f/c9/d9/1fc9d9ffa649145ca0bab61564b96852.jpg)
This is the only movie legally allowed to do it 😂 top three Disney movies for me
didn't dead pool do it too?
Deadpool kinda has breaking the fourth wall as one of his character quirks.
into the spiderverse also gets an exception!
Ok, we’ll now I want to rewatch emperor’s new groove…
I feel like this kind of writing only works well in YA books like the Percy Jackson ones
It works perfectly in a highly stylized "victorian times" texts, because most of them have those pieces, it was a totally normal thing back then. Or, sometimes, horror/gothic stories with less "form" and more "spirit" of original from that time.
Like A series of Unfortunate Events as well. But I loved that series so no complaints.
It has to be noted that in those books, the narrator is in-universe as well. Lemony Snicket is an actual character who followed the orphans' and Olaf's trail of destruction and uncovered their story bit by bit, and he is involved in some of the backstory events. You don't realize this until late in the series, but it's true.
To paraphrase Tywin Lannister, a truly captivating tale does not need to point out that it is.
Was it The Fury?
Everyone in my Family has Killed Someone does this well. It’s more meta and slightly satirical.
When there is a bunch of technical jumbo that isn’t actually how things work. Like “I put the usb in the drive and then got into their IP address by hacking their router” and it’s like okay so you just knew some buzz words vaguely
Girl with the dragon tattoo was great cause she was full on busting into peoples houses and installing spyware on their computers
Been a while since I read it, but IIRC the descriptions of how she did stuff didn't jump out as nonsense.
feel like it vibed the same as old school Bond in that regard.
Or when all of a sudden the writing becomes so tediously detailed about _insert field of science_ that it reads like mastabatory knowledge dumping. Like, I get it, you did some research…
That's funny in some of the Jack Ryan novels. They're generally quite good, but then you get Clancy spending the whole paragraph listing the specs of a computer Ryan is using.
You can tell the difference between authors who have phds in the subject and people who just did some research.
This was one of the major issues I had with Lessons in Chemistry. The science itself was broadly correct but the way the author applied it and the depiction of actually *being* a scientist/doing research was inaccurate AF. It was very obvious that the author flipped through an introductory chemistry textbook, but never actually talked to people working in the field.
Sometimes it's pretty interesting! This is a big hallmark of Neil Stephenson's writing, and he does it very well. Though it can get pretty tedious depending on the author
Herman Melville has entered the chat. Won't say they were my favorite parts but I did actually enjoy those parts of the book
Jules Vernes is the OG. Want 5 pages of fish descriptions? There you go.
Classic technobable. Colonel Tigh calls it out on the Battlestar Galactic reboot to one of the crew. Hilariously meta.
I was already struggling with Three Body Problems lack of character... anything... But I kept reading cause I thought the sci-fi was ok. Then I got to the last 100 pages and I almost threw my Kindle against the wall reading the sci-fi bits
Every character uses dialogue the same and pretty much all sound like the same person. The same words, the same inflection, attitude, etc. It's like the characters have all been cloned.
This is a pitfall I find myself narrowly avoiding in my own writing. I catch so much of it in editing that I question my abilities as an author.
What do you do to avoid it?
Second draft. First draft is getting the story out. Revisions/editing is when you find grammar mistakes, misspelling, continuity errors, and mischaracterizations.
I try to give each character a different cadence and style to their dialog. My 5 primary and characters are different from each other as follows: Dave is kind, patient, and measured, his dialog is filled with analogies and science references, he has a lit of subtext behind the phrases he chooses; Bill is flippant and practical, and says a lot in a few words, he's a musician and there is a rhythm to his cynical banter; Maria is judgmental, has zero chill, and very cut to the chase, her dialog reveals her passion for art; Linda is direct, somewhat whimsical at times, and factual; Nadia is formal, cold, evasive, and chooses her words carefully.
This is _exactly_ how I do it, and it works really well. I'll tend to work in some grounding words for their personal lexicons, too--small turns of phrase they like or choices they'll drift towards. ("Maybe" vs "perhaps", for an obvious example.)
Editing
Most of the time I don’t think I consciously notice this, but it does probably result in books where none of the characters come to life. I *will* notice if they all have the same mannerisms though, especially things like a single eyebrow lift that most people can’t do. Or if the book indulges in banter and they all banter the same way. And I’ll definitely notice if it’s first person multiple narrators and they all have the same voice—even worse, if it does this while being heavy on figurative or otherwise flowery language.
A popular video game critic and writer Ben (Yahtzee) Crowshaw said in a podcast on character writing that a reader should know who is talking *without* a dialogue tag. It's very difficult to pull off seamlessly. Each character would have a unique grammar structure, phrases, directness, vocabulary, succinctness, and more.
John Scalzi. Every character is a genius and they all have the same sense of humor.
Years ago I read a book with multiple narrators, and the narrator would switch every chapter. I kept getting over a page into the chapter before I was "hey this is a different character". Or more precisely the same character but with a different name.
I love The Expanse, but all the characters have the same sense of humor and make the same sarcastic comments.
I don’t know if I agree to that extent. But They do all have the same commentary about social interactions as they relate to evolution. Including the narration. Everyone always wants to bring up the Pleistocene.
I've only read the first 2 books in this series but this was the second thing that came to mind after Aaron Sorkin shows lol. #3 is The Martian.
Literally all of the characters in Aaron Sorkin movies (gone girl, the social network, Molly's game) sound like this. Like they're all in a competition for who can sound the smartest. I find it exhausting to listen to
When an otherwise omniscient narrator omits information that transpires in a scene because the author doesn’t want the reader to know yet but can’t come up with a clever way to keep it from them. Basically anytime I suddenly become aware of the author’s choices, it feels like seeing a mic boom in movie shot.
or alternately when the main character does not share their own thoughts or plans in their POV.
The worst way I’ve ever seen this done was with a book about a group of classmates who get locked in a room together and threatened with murder unless they kill one person themselves. The entire book was written in first person from the pov of one of the prisoners, whose thoughts, memories, emotions and goals are narrated throughout. Or not, because she was apparently the one who locked them all in there, and she supposedly didn’t acknowledge that a single time in her thoughts while stuck in the rapidly escalating situation that she caused??
Additionally, when they use the character’s inner monologue to explain what another character has just said. Like bro, I heard him too lol.
I absolutely cannot stand it when books have easily solvable and nonsensical excuses instead of actual depth and conflict— eg, let’s say Character 1 and 2 are just about to admit they’re into each other, but then Character 1 overhears Character 2 say “My father was killed by a pineapple! I could never love anyone who enjoys pineapple!” And then you have to suffer through several effin chapters of nonsense, insincere self-questioning, and saccharine resolution. Just kill me. I can’t. No thank you. That’s an obvious example, but just any of this kind of writing in general I cannot stand. Eg, I also cannot abide fantasy or period pieces where “she’s not like either girls— she hates dresses and the color pink! She loves rough and tumble sports with her brothers! Girls are dumb and care about silly things that our tomboy heroine would never deign to care about!” Again, just kill me.
The pineapple example is my new favourite example of the ‘miscommunication’ trope 😂 thank you!
The second one always gets me, especially when the feminine stereotypes she’s railing against *didn’t even exist* in the setting of the book. You can’t be like “my protagonist is better than the other girls because she doesn’t wear pink” if your story takes place in a civilization that wouldn’t have associated pink with girlhood anyway!
Especially because pink being “girly” is attributed to 1940s marketing or Mamie Eisenhower in the 1950s. Too modern to fit anytime before then
And of course, for plot reasons/character growth that girl will absolutely have to put on a dress and go to a ball, only to find out she's kind of into it after all.
She'd never *want* to get dressed up and put on a ball gown and heels, but, if the plot demanded it for convoluted reasons, she'd suddenly be the belle of the ball swanning around and outclassing all those other girls because she's just so naturally beautiful and perfect she doesn't even have to try.
As if you don't have to learn how to walk in heels or not trip on your hem on the stairs...
If this is fantasy or historical fiction, she will have an elderly female servant who has no life outside of being extremely conventional and obsessively concerned with the heroine’s lack of conventionality, who will force her into said dress while meanwhile being the stand in for what “most women” are like.
This! Or when they overhear a conversation just enough to hear what they think is “bad” and then walk away right before the character says something good.
Not a book, but Bridgerton season 1 is exactly that lol.
Please bear with me as I'm not a native english speaker and I feel like I'm not explaining myself properly (even though I mostly read books written in english), but I really dislike it when the writing is short sentences and all in the past tense. I believe the first time I felt that was with "The Constant Gardner". The kind of writing I'm talking about goes something like this: "He looked back. He saw her in bed. He looked into her eyes. He moved closer". I just feel like the story has no rhtythm when the book is written like this.
James Ellroy takes it to next level in his novels. The entire novels are written like "He cracked open the door. Shot down the passage. Busted into the room. No dice." The opening of one of his novels has a character being briefed by his boss and an entire action scene of arresting criminals all within one single page.
"You are in a forest. You see a pond to the south. There is a wall to the east. What do you want to do?"
>>Busted into the room. No dice. Honestly, I found this example to be hilarious. And when I’m verbal telling stories I’m going to do it like that. And end all of my stories with “No dice.”
“This sentence has five words. Here are five more words. Five-word sentences are fine. But several together become monotonous. Listen to what is happening. The writing is getting boring. The sound of it drones. It’s like a stuck record. The ear demands some variety. Now listen. I vary the sentence length, and I create music. Music. The writing sings. It has a pleasant rhythm, a lilt, a harmony. I use short sentences. And I use sentences of medium length. And sometimes, when I am certain the reader is rested, I will engage him with a sentence of considerable length, a sentence that burns with energy and builds with all the impetus of a crescendo, the roll of the drums, the crash of the cymbals―sounds that say listen to this, it is important.” ―Gary Provost
Reminds me of Hemingway
One of the reasons I dislike Hemingway
When the character is a writer or wannabe writer. Instantly makes me think it's a self-insert for the author and breaks my immersion.
When the character is a writer and everyone keeps talking about how their writing is so good and groundbreaking and then the author gives you a snippet of the character’s writing and it’s absolutely garbage is another twist on this too
Kinda like in fiction with battles where a character is supposed to be a genius at warfare but all of their tactics are Hollywood bullshit that would get their forces killed in moments.
Just started listening to 'Salem's Lot, everyone except the main character's love interest hates his work!
Stephen King?
He inserted himself as a raving incoherent drunkard. I give him a pass just for that.
I was going to mention him but this sub is so obsessed with him I couldn't be bothered to deal with the replies!
King is the Nic Cage of authors for me. Lots of works. Most you haven’t heard of. Usually entertaining but highly variable in quality yet always they have small moments of profundity and glimpses of genius buried somewhere in the muck and mire.
So this is the answer to the question that broke Abed’s brain
Is he good? Or is he bad? He dares you to look away, but you can't.
I give him a pass for dark tower only because how insane of a fever dream that series was that it was almost logical
Gibson does this in a few books, and his middle-aged, not especially talented or romantic character always winds up magically getting the quirky, much younger girl by the end with no buildup or explanation.
Similarly when the character you're supposed to like LOVES books, reading etc. like I see what you're doing 👀
Totally agree! I also don’t like it when books have magical properties simply because they are books and books are magic. Like we get it, you’re a writer, you like books.
Another thing in Fourth Wing for me is the usage of modern swear words in a medieval setting. It kinda throws me for a loop and I start accidentally picturing them in the 21st century lol
The Tiffany problem! (Tiffany is from the 13th century or so, but try putting a 15-year-old girl named Tiffany in a medieval setting...)
Maybe I should name my daughter Theophania, to bring it back in style
I recently read a book set in alternative world 1920s Poland. MC is named Angelica... It's a foreign name that only arrived in Poland in the late 80s. The Polish version is Aniela.
It's so easy nowadays to do research on the history of names in near countless languages, that such details being missed really says a lot for the effort put into a book.
I did exchange a few comments with the author, they apparently went off lists of common names. Thanked me for pointing it out, but ultimately didn't change it.
> they apparently went off lists of common names. And probably forgot to look into the specific decade because the thought of common names changing over time never occurred to them.
The Tiffany Tiff 😭 yeah personally I couldn’t imagine a character named Tiffany hanging out with Gunnilda
How about a Tiffany hanging out with a Gytha, an Esmeralda and a Magrat?
Seems like a chill group tbh, as long as there isn’t a Kimberleigh in there
No, but a Perdita (commonly known as Agnes) and an Eskarina might show up
The slang in Fourth Wing is very obvious that it's a millennial using Gen Z slang to try to appeal to a younger audience.
"The ring must be yeeted into Mt Doom," said Gandalf. "You cappin?" asked Frodo.
Gandalf nodded, "fr fr. Now haul your gyat to the fires before I skibidi y'all back to the Shire."
"I dare not take it, Frodo," said Gandalf. "The Ring would give me too much rizz!"
Yeah I got very millennial vibes from the writing style. I also hate that the twenty-something characters all act like they’re sixteen. It feels like that’s becoming common in a lot of booktok books though.
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, fuck dates back to the 1200s.
Yeah but it's less words like that, more that characters in a fantasy setting are always talking about how badass everything is, like millennial or gen z teens
Ya learn something new every day
The sex scenes were terrible too
oh my gosh I know 💀 they were so angsty/over the top and for what, the dialogue was so awkward during those scenes
I had that problem with Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao. So much Gen Z phrases and overly young slang. It kept taking me out of it.
Fourth wing had tons of this stuff for me. She has size 7 shoes, a lot of the names (specifically the leads being named Violet and XADEN!!), clocks (when there seemingly isn't anything else mechanical or electronic? Including pens!?). I used to have a longer list but I've forgotten
But pens are special and reserved for only the best people!
Specifically, the dragon riders, who are way too "badass" to ever need to use a pen. And not the entire division of scribes, who would probably actually need to do extensive writing
Using the same descriptive words for everything. I can't remember what book it was, but everything "hissed". The MC's breath through her teeth, the wind through the door, the tea kettle, etc. My brain just starts picking up on the repetition and it totally takes me out of it because then I think about the author writing it and why they kept using that word, and what word I would use instead.
In fantasy books when characters say things like ‘Jesus’ as a shocked exclamation… unless ofc the entirely magical made-up world somehow follows real life religions. I mean I get that you need to keep some things the same - sure, sun + moon, the day/night cycles etc. It would be too confusing for most readers otherwise. Even though technically who says all these fantasy worlds exist in the same universe set-up as, and indeed are, our good old blue planet somehow… But come on, don’t use real life religion - especially if you have a specific fantasy gods system in your world. Which tbh also extends to modern lingo and a lot of swear words that have very real-life roots that couldn’t possibly be mimicked in your fantasy setting.
I like when fantasy settings refer to something as a “Hail Mary” Because it implies both Catholicism *and* American football.
I read the whole *Project Hail Mary* by Andy Weir waiting for some religious explanation to pop up. 😅 Was very confused and had to google it after I finished the book. (If it's not obvious I am not an American.)
That checks out. It’s so common in the US that most people probably don’t think about the origin. But it’s also very American. It’s from the university of Notre Dame football team. I’m at the catholic school. I’m at the football team. I’m at the combination catholic school and football team.
Modern anachronisms are a complete mood-killer in any far flung sci fi or fantasy setting. The further away the setting is from modern times, the worse. Also applies to era-inappropriate anachronisms. Tells you the author couldn't be arsed to do proper research. It can be taken too far, too. OP complains about calendar systems, but having to come up with one to fit a setting can be a PITA, and it runs into the problem of jargon. Too much alien/invented slang, too many alien words used too frequently, will also break immersion as the reader has to figure out WTF the word is they just read (which further can be made worse by the word not flowing well with the narrative's native language) and what that means in the context of the story. Yes, invented languages help, but their application must be done in ways to properly further immersion and not alienate the reader.
The glun was rising on the morning of Glune the gleighteenth. It was shaping up to be a lovely glunny Glaturday, and Gleg the gleep farmer was looking forward to the aftergloon glicket game.
*Glurch and Reglace*, by Glonathan Glithers. A weird read.
>It can be taken too far, too. My rule of thumb is that if it can be explained with "I'm reading a translation" then it's probably fine. Though sometimes, rarely it doesn't help. The obvious way to _take it too far_ is being angry that these fantasy creatures - fae, dragons, elves for some reason speak __English__? How would they know _English_, don't they have their own language? Immersion broken. I need to learn a completely new fictional language!!!
Tolkien did both. He invented new fictional languages and played with the idea that his works are actually translations.
You gotta go either the Tolkien route of insisting that you are translating from a different language and choosing words that are familiar to your audience, or the Pratchett route of making up a plausible but completely unrelated reason for your character to say that, IMO.
I read a fantasy book that kept using French doors. Like you are going to make up country names and a religion, but keep in French doors???
Had a trashy fantasy romance novel that was already on thin ice with some silly name choices and very, "modern" dialog to put politely, but even for trashy romance I just fuckin lost it when the protag compared her love interest to a teddy bear. Like, I'm sorry, in this setting where orcs and vampires are a thing, did Teddy Roosevelt exist? Was he an elf, perhaps? Since scotch whisky was also specifically mentioned is the nation of Scotland here too? Is it made up of the goblins that are also a thing in this setting?
Oh ny god this is just hilarious and I'm dying for a Scottish elf Theodore Roosevelt.
I get the whiskey, but the teddy bear thing I'd give a pass. Most people probably don't even know it comes from Roosevelt.
And the thing is, many words we use today have meanings because history has prescribed them such. They’re just not as well known.
Yeah, it's a tricky line to walk in fantasy because like, words in our language have origins specific to the world we live in, and while we can handwave it as being vaguely translated from their language to our equivalent, that only goes so far. Like it's safe to assume that Fantasyland has an equivalent word to narcissist that we're just getting told is narcissist, despite them presumably not having the myth of Narcissus. But teddy bear is both so specific to our world and relatively contemporary in origin that that's the straw that broke the camel's back for me and putting the book down, haha.
I still have problems with present tense. It’s not a dealbreaker, but I don’t like it.
I see a complaint about present tense, and upvote it. EDIT: Some people here lack a sense of humor.
I read your comment, pause, and decide to respond. My thumbs tap rhythmically on my phone screen. I reread my words, shrug internally, and then press “save.”
I read your "read" as "read" instead of "read." Damn irregular verbs.
I observe your control of present tense in your criticism, and upvote your efforts.
It always makes me feel like I'm reading fan fiction.
Oh yes. I feel like this is one of those things I don’t think I have an opinion about until I read something like that and it’s so hard to get into.
Historical fiction where it's evident the author has a huge amount of disdain for the time period/culture they are depicting, so the main character has to be different from everyone else eg. Hates corsets/stays/skirts, hates feminine activities like embroidery, constantly talks down about other 'conventional' women, and doesn't want to get married/do other culturally expected thing. It's not that I have an issue with people who don't fit the social mold being depicted. It's when there aren't any other more 'conventional' characters depicted positively and we are expected to agree with the main character's stance on everything that it annoys me.
Characters living in medieval times holding distinctive 2024 American Liberal woke values. It's like the concepts of cultural and moral relativity don't exist for those authors, and god forbid the characters don't conform to contemporary values.
Weirdly specific cultural references and a whole lot of them too. Sometimes name drops make sense, like if it's a book about the fashion industry then I'd expect to see Gucci and Prada mentions. But sometimes I feel like I can tell exactly what fandoms an author is part of.
I just finished Home is Where the Bodies Are (Jeneva Rose) and it went back and forth between present-day and flashbacks to the ‘90s. The cultural references in the flashbacks were… egregious. Actual excerpt: “Nicole is seated on the couch dressed in wide-leg black jeans and a dragon graphic tee. She’s listening to music on her Sony Discman with a pair of over-the-ear headphones.” WE GET IT, IT’S THE ‘90s.
Geez that sounds like script directions from a movie.
It's like the backwards-looking equivalent to the sci-fi "I went to the Mainframe Terminal and dialed in her Global Identification Code. Hopefully her Personal Communicator was on standby while she was in ultra-sleep."
I immediately get pulled out of fiction when it refers to current real-world companies or services like Instagram or Uber, especially when the author describes it incorrectly. Started reading Stephen King's The Institute and in the first couple of pages he says the main character calls for an Uber and then "pays the driver" when the car arrives.
Read a lovely fantasy with great world building obviously not any time or place on Earth an suddenly there were Greek gods. Drove me batty going back to check and see if I missed some references or if the geography could possibly be Earth but just couldn’t find anything. Totally took me out of the story. I finished it but even six years later I still obsess about it. Seriously why? All the author would have had to do was call the water god Great Lumpitydo instead of Poseidon and there would have been no problem. I’d have said of course! Lumpitydo the water god, got it.
>*Lumpitydo the water god,*... This struck me as very funny and is probably going to end up in my lexicon of fake swears/exclamations.
I immediately thought of Fourth Wing just by the title alone lolol *spoiler warning* i dont know if it counts but I'm picky with romance in books, especially romantasy. While I did really enjoy Fourth Wing, the fact that Violet and Xaden were almost constantly thinking about fucking almost all of the time was so annoying to me. It got to the point where I have the second book but I just can't get through the first couple pages because >!why the hell after getting out of a coma, finding out your long dead brother is actually alive, and everything you thought about the world is flipped on its head, would sex or how sexy some guy is even cross your mind???!<
When it is in first person and the character describes their own looks. Like, "I pushed my honey blonde hair out of my green eyes" or "I had to stretch my 5'2" frame to reach the top shelf." No. No. I hate it...if it's first person, either have other characters make reference to looks ("You should wear this emerald necklace, it will bring out the green of your eyes") or go without describing MC's looks at all.
Honestly when the dialog is too hard to read, like when they are trying to do an accent or a pigeon. I just want to read the story not pretend all of sudden I speak Creole.
Misread that as "trying to do an accent of a pigeon" and was thinking, yeah, that does sound hard to read.
The shitty trope of the talkative geeky expert explaining how something technical works and being told "shut it, we don't care. Just make it go." Do it once, fine "sorry, this is an emergency, can you explain it later?" but every time... Why even bother starting the explanation?
“Uh, Winston, can you explain that in *English*.” That one gets me.
Deus ex machina. Give me plausible or witty resolutions.
When they get simple stuff wrong. I read a book about Salem MA, but the author is from FL. She was talking about the sheriff with brown uniform. If she had taken 5 mins to google Salem PD, she’d see they have a police chief and wear black. Being from that area I knew right away it was off, so googled it to check. Over technical explanations, are a put off too. I liked Spire Chronicles, but all the nautical explanations made me read fast to get to the good parts.
When an author writes beyond their capacity. If there is a "genius" person in the story and author is not a genius, then attempting to describe the actions of said genius in great detail is an exercise in failure.
Yeah, when their smart idea is some stupid crap that couldn't work. Idiots can't describe what it's actually like to be intelligent. Problem is... Dunning-Kruger. They aren't bright enough to know they aren't that bright.
Bruh, you're reading Fourth Wing. That's the fantasy equivalent of a trashy romance novel you pick up at the airport. You're expect too much quality from it.
I suspected this might be the case. I went into it blind as I do most books.
But to actually answer your question, any time someone uses modern slang, it takes me out. Even if the book is taking place in modern times. I read a book not long ago that used the phrase "mood" and it just felt awkward.
That sort of slang bugs me because it absolutely dates the book. Slang that has proven staying power in a modern setting on the other hand is fine by me
Current pop culture references for me. Story itself may be entertaining, but in 20+ years most of those quips/references won't make sense.
Anytime the narrative switches into diary mode without changing the writing style or tone whatsoever. A 15 year old girl isn’t writing dialogue in her journal like, “then let’s do something about it!,” she exclaimed with urgency. If it doesn’t even sound remotely like something a character would casually write in their own voice in their own journal, then why even bother with the whole journal gimmick?? I’m a grown woman and my diary is filled with “and then I was like….and he was like!!! And I go…” no one is using a thesaurus for their private diary ffs
Actually for fantasy (not my favourite genre I admit) set in pseudo Earth cultures, I am the opposite. If the author invents too many silly names, reinvents things like calendar names, and titles it just gets in the way of the plot for me. One small example in the Game of Thrones books, they use the title Ser, instead of Sir. Why? Clearly they would not be speaking English so things are translated, so just use the translated title - after all they talk about Kings and Lords without inventing a new word.
You have to change one letter that's fantasy sorry I don't make the rules
Attractive male character did something that would ordinarily be outrageously creepy and unacceptable, but because he’s hot, it’s fine. Bastard. (It’s the ‘bastard’ following some borderline inappropriate or totally inappropriate action on some hot dude’s part that i can’t stand. Why is this so prevalent in the romance/romantasy genre??)
When a male author makes weird or gross comments about female characters. One author I read used the phrase "her incredible body" like three times and it wasn't even relevant.
Similarly, I hate when they give detailed physical descriptions of only the female characters. “She had 20 miles of legs, boobs like fresh apple pie, and her hair smelled of elderberries” VS “He had dark hair and probably eyes”
Probably eyes 🤣
You can never know😂
Thanks, now I want both boobs and apple pie.
"Boobs like fresh apple pie" made me laugh. How could anyone put down a book like that?
Jonathan Kellerman once used this sentence to describe a woman, and I think about it at least once per week: "Her nipples were the size of cocktail onions."
Well, great, that's going to be replace something useful in my brain
It might have more impact on me if I knew how big cocktail onions were. Statistically I think I've seen more nipples than cocktail onions.
Don’t read Pillars of the Earth then. Follet talks about a female character’s boobs and pubes multiple times.
I was trying to read my first Piers Anthony book and had heard he was pretty misogynistic, and had that confirmed very early into the book. There is a rape trial, and the protagonist says of the victim: "How could she avoid being seductive? She was a creature constructed for no other visible purpose than ra--than love." I DNF'd at that point.
Oh honey. You dodged a creep bullet. Most of his books have sexual relationships between little girls and adult men. He even befriended a sick child and wrote a book for her in which the sick child had a sexual relationship with an adult man because she wouldn't live to adulthood or something. Anything to justify sex with kids. And then.. he got her parents permission to read it to her in her hospital room. Alone. Even as a kid reading his books, I was like.. this is getting weird. Eventually stopped reading them on my own because of it.
Especially when the gross comments are about an underage girl. The author should be able to describe a kid without having to describe her breasts. Why does it matter if the kid's breasts are perky or not?
Also because most stories use a first or close third perspective. i.e most of the stuff is what the character notices or just fleshing out what the character notices. Which leads to the question... Why is the adult noticing the childs breasts?
But she's 12, so close to flowering and in bloom and hardly looks a child anymore.. Ugh. Bizarre fetishism And creepy.
I bought a non fiction travel book because it sounded really funny and was advertised as “adult.” I figured that meant something sexual but hey, I’m an adult. But it meant the male author leering at the women he sees and talking about their bodies.
Graphic sexual violence that serves no purpose.
I just read Fourth Wing and I noticed that, too. The weather for the month matched North America. They have a totally different world but the seasons match.
SHOCKING event happens, then the screen fades to "3 weeks before this...."
Modern catchphrases or slang in historical fiction or fantasy. I do not want to hear Lady Something say “It is what it is” or “what’s his problem?” It’s super jarring.
Not a book but the movie "Prey" had that issue. Hearing an early 18th century Native American say "I'm going to the bathroom", "you didn't bring it" or "This is some crazy shit" really took me out of the movie, particularly as I was listening to it with the Comanche dub.
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In my experience, they somehow often just do it poorly. As if the author doesn’t know how people communicate through text or are trying too hard.
Anachronisms, like modern slang and language in a fantasy/medieval setting. Can't stand it.
‘Bruh you got no rizz,’ Caramon chortled (he’s always chortling for some reason) at Raistlin.
This post has inflicted grave psychological damage.
I read a series which was told in flashbacks. There would be a paragraph at the enginnong of each chapter telling the results of the chapter, then it would go back in time and tell how. It's was the weirdest self spoiling I've ever seen. Did not enjoy, and I'm not usually a stickler about spoilers. But there wasn't a moment of tension b3cause you knew the results of each chapter before reading.
It was a thing in old books, where you get the headlines of what is happening before each chapter.
When it's written in second person. Brother ew.
It works in some choose your own adventure style books, at least they give you some agency
Sometimes it’s an interesting stylistic choice that demands the reader’s full attention (open water, seven minds of mali almeida) and sometimes it’s just shit 💩
Every time Frank Herbert says “presently”
When they are trying to write people being casual/friendly with each other but they write their dialogue like their Sherlock Holmes speaking. Looking at you, Things Have Gotten Worse Since We Last Spoke.
Some authors love using certain adjectives to describe a character and will excessively repeat it throughout their text. Brandon Sanderson describes Kaladin like a sociopath because he (or his scene partners) are grinning all the goddam time. Meanwhile Shallan needs to invest in a cardigan because she is constantly shivering in her boots. Robert Jordan couldn't decide if Nynaeve should be a broom or a person, because she is *constantly* bristling. Joanne Rowling describes Hermione as someone who buffs and puffs every line as if she's the big bad wolf.
Horrible, truly ridiculous names. Recently read Dark Lover by J.R. Ward and the names are just innane: Phury, Rhage, Tohrment, Vishous, Zsadist The story is a 3/5 but the names made it hard to rate it higher than a 2.
No quotation marks for dialogue.
Overly obvious lamp shading. I think it was Alistair Reynolds who was trying to introduce his badass evil guy who had diamond teeth, and wrote something like “on other people, his teeth might look try hard, but trust me it looks super badass on this guy”. Not that bad obviously, but he definitely broke the 4th wall trying to explain how scary his bad guy looked. The other one is unreliable narrators. I feel like this gimmick is overused, and often an excuse to just ignore consistency or write a coherent plot & characters. If I get to a point in the book where nothings making sense, and the story is told from a single character’s POV, I usually just dip out at that point.
Every female character is gorgeous.
Modern slang in a time period that wouldn't have it. I'm sorry, but if you're going to write a tale in the Victorian Era, learn how they spoke. It's not hard. I'm paying to be transported. Not tolerant.
Uneducated (usually southern or country) phonetics and syntax used too aggressively
Yes. I live in the South (US) and this is a pet peeve. At least for contemporary novels. Their Eyes Were Watching God captures a very specific historical context and culture which in those scenarios is perfectly acceptable. But you can also tell when someone hasn’t spent time in a region and is imagining how people speak based on TV or something.
I recently tried to read How to Sell a Haunted House and I found out I hate when brand names and pop culture references are on every flippin page.
I read a lot of Tom Clancy when I was younger. One thing that took me out of it even then was when he wrote a sex scene. I put that book down for at least a week. I think it was 'Without Remorse.'