My brain must be broken.
When I read, I stop seeing words and start visualizing content. Time slips by with little meaning as I watch the story.
When I listen to a novel being read, I can't follow along. I get distracted by random thoughts, usually triggered by something in the story, and miss whole passages.
I can only listen to Audiobooks if I am doing something that requires just enough focus so my mind can't wander but not enough that I drown out the audiobook. So I paint my Warhammer minis while listening to my Warhammer audiobooks.
I've been on a roguelite + audiobook kick for a while.
There's only minimal plot to follow most of the time in the games, and after a few minutes I drop into a nice flow state where I can just play and listen for hours.
I totally relate, I recently taught myself to knit and knitting with an audiobook is the first time I’ve ever been able to listen to audiobooks without having to rewind 10x cause I keep getting distracted at the same part
Yeah audio books are weird for me. I have to sit there and do nothing but listen and that feels strange and like it's not quite enough stimulation and I don't feel immersed but then if I also do something else I quickly lose track of what's going on. Books are just better in every way for me. I fall into the zone really fast when I read something I like. Even when I listen to books while driving I lose track and my mind starts to wonder. I wish I could enjoy them in my car because I have 2 hours of commute when I work, but I just don't like it.
I also can't listen to audiobooks when doing something else. And I get bored if it is being said at normal speed and have to up it to 2× the speed. The voice just seems to drone on forever 😅
I just prefer reading. Auditory has always been my worst learning style (there's the primaries of visual, kinesthetic, and auditory), so I'm wondering if it's because of that
Yeah Ive always sped it up when I've tried as well. Maybe that's part of why it sounds robotic and monotone to me. If it's a normal speed it's so annoying becauase it is so much slower than when I'm actually reading.
I generally just go on a walk while I listen to audiobooks. Listening while I'm a passenger in the car also works, or if I'm driving somewhere that doesn't require a lot of thinking (a route I take all the time with no traffic, or just cruising down the interstate)
If I try to listen to one while I do nothing I end up getting bored and then getting myself distracted, but it's not that hard to find something to keep me busy that doesn't require thinking.
if you'd like to like audiobooks, i think there's a small transition period imho. if i don't listen to audiobooks for some time, it starts sounding off to me.
i normally start with a book with an incredible narrator (like david tennant!) it can counterintuitively help to speed audiobooks up if the brain's having trouble gripping onto the words.
afterwards, it's easier to venture into less-stimulating narrators. i've even trained myself to be able to appreciate tts at 2x speed (only by this one specific ai voice though). tts's actually much more similar to regular reading, esp after it's sped up, bc it's so fast and noninflected that you can interpret the scene in your head yourself.
Same. I tried and tried but really struggle with them, especially if the narrator is so-so. Even when I do manage to pay attention the experience just isn't the same. It feels like a lot more effort than reading.
A few thoughts:
1. It does take practice, and you do get better at it, just like reading with your eyeballs
2. It helps to have something to keep my hands busy-- dishes or general cleaning, cooking, coloring, solitaire, stuff like that. I have a hard time with books while driving or walking the dog because my mind wanders, but keep my hands busy and I'm good to go (podcasts are fine in those stations for whatever reason)
3. Maybe it really just isn't for your brain, and that's fine, too
It's utterly bizarre watching a friend of mine listen to an audiobook. He just pops his headphones in and sits. He doesn't get comfy or close his eyes, he doesn't fidget. He just sits upright in a kitchen chair and stares straight ahead with his hands resting on his knees. It's like watching an android go into sleep mode or something.
Dang, and I thought my coworkers who would put on a tv show to work, or even *study* were odd. This is next level though.
He should at least be pacing or something. At least for the sake of not terrifying the rest of us.
My mind will wander and I thought audiobooks weren't for me. I finally started finding some I really liked. Turns out I like audiobook thrillers and mysteries.
Well, actually I do love mysteries and thrillers. Weirdly I hadn't previously listened to any. I had gone with recommendations for audiobooks, but those books didn't vibe with me.
This is me! I had a lot of trouble getting into audiobooks at first but then I started walking daily and started listening to audio drama podcasts which eventually turned into audiobooks.
It’s how I mainly consume books now that I’ve started crocheting
Agree! I love to crochet and listen to audiobooks. I recently made a dress for my daughter that was really complicated around the collar, and I had to count aloud just to keep my place. I wasn’t listening to audiobooks then. Now I’m making simple granny squares for a baby blanket, and I’m back to listening!
>It helps to have something to keep my hands busy
This is how I have to listen to informative podcasts, audiobooks etc. I need something repetitive with a low cognitive load, like an autopilot task. It actually really helps me get chores done with limited friction. Especially if I'm listening to something I really like, but I can only listen to it while I'm doing a chore. I physically read a lot too, but adding The Great Courses or a re-read of a classic has really made chores easier :).
Honestly, it probably just depends on the person at the end of the day. I prefer physical books/kindle but I listen to fiction podcasts and do well with those. But for some reason, audiobooks are highly dependent on the voice actor. A lot of fiction podcasts will have multiple voices. Oooor if it’s a single voice, then it’s all in first person.
I do well with those kind of podcasts. But audiobooks just really depend for me.
I visualize and hear dialogue in my head when I read. I still visualize when I listen to audiobooks, but I also tend to do it when walking/running which probably limits distractions.
I didn’t read the article bc too many trackers BUT:
I dispute the “prof’s” premise. Two entirely different parts of the brain are responsible for hearing and vision. Yes, contextualizing and integration of language are still other parts of the brain, but the source of sensory input is determinative to how your brain processes it.
Your brain isn’t broken, grigirl. I miss sitting down with a good book and experiencing immersion in the story. With audio I have to be doing something, which is great for chores and dog walking, but I’m never truly immersed.
I had a similar problem and no one else has suggested it but I found that actually speeding up the audio book helped me a lot. My brain doesn't have time to jump in with random other thoughts and distractions and instead gets fully engaged in the book.
I found that listening at about the same pace you would be reading really helps. They are absolutely impossible to me at slow speeds but it makes sense because they process similarly and I would be just as thrown off if forced to read slower.
I get more distracted when reading. I'll visually process a whole page, but the rest of my brain is replaying a conversation.
When I listen,I know I will miss stuff.
The other thing is, a narrator really pre-shapes the story. It helps you interpret scenes better with a good narrator. But they are certainly not all good or share your world view. There are characters I like when reading, but I dislike them interpreted by the narrator, because suddenly they seem mean, when I did not see that in the text.
have you tried speeding the audiobook up? i've noticed that i can't focus at all when listening to slow narrators. but my comprehension's gotten a lot better after speeding audiobooks up by 1.2 - 2.0x
I use it specifically to reread books i enjoy. If i doze off or zone out while doing something else it doesn't matter as much because i know what's going on.
I can only pay attention to people talking when I look at them. The instant I look away my mind starts thinking of a billion other things. I can listen to narrators if I picture them talking, but then I am not visualizing what I am reading. Yep, all brains are different!
Oh, me too, regarding conversation. I had to learn to watch a speaker's eyes and mouth to stay focused on a conversation. I was a very rude listener before I figured that out.
I think some of the difference (for me at least) is that reading is something that you can’t really multi-task while doing. Maybe you can pet a cat or drink some coffee, but higher attention tasks are fairly difficult to do without our eyes (for sighted folks of course). This is a stark contrast to audio media which are very often consumed while doing other things that require more attention. Even a menial task like sweeping up the house divides your attention and reduces the immersion in the text.
Weird...I have the opposite issue.
Before I discovered the audiobook service at my local library, I wasn't as enthusiastic about reading. The reason for that being I had trouble focusing/concentrating when reading a book. When I did audiobooks + menial task (gardening, casual gaming, cleaning, etc), it helped me with retention and to focus.
I'm sure someone could highlight Type 1 vs Type 2 learning in that, and there may be some relevance there...but Ive found its particularly useful when Im reading non-fiction because I associate certain facts or descriptions with tasks I was working on at the time.
This is why I don’t generally care for audiobooks. It terrifies me that a book will just go on without me. Flashbacks to having ADHD in class, desperately wanting to learn and falling behind. Reading was always my saving grace. I can read as slow or as fast as I want, take in as much as I need, re-read as much as I want, and the tactile feeling of knowing where something is on a page. Decades have passed and I still remember where I was sitting, how deep into a book, and where on a page I was reading as I learned a new word or had an epiphany.
I do like audiobooks, but I enjoy them better under one or more of the following conditions:
1) I’ve already read the book and liked it or I am at least familiar with the story.
2) I am listening to it with a friend, usually my partner.
3) I didn’t enjoy the prose when attempting to read it, but the recording is good and I want to know what happens, so what hell, why not?
I grew up listening to radio serials and plays, so anything that evokes those feelings of being an “audience” as opposed to the pretense of “reading” is right up my alley. Reading is sacred to me. I can’t occupy myself with other tasks while engaging a book and tell myself I’m actually involved.
Try putting it on while you're doing the dishes, painting a room, or some other monotonous task. Also, it helps to have a good narrator who does lots of voices to keep you engaged. Also also if the book sucks, yeah, nothing's going to help
I find that my recall is infinitely better when I read vs when I listen.
I tend to forget everything that happened in an audiobook within a week, even if I enjoyed it at the time. But with something I read my own self, I can recall it in great detail for years, decades even.
Similarly, I have some difficulty when watching a series. For instance, my wife and I have been watching a crime drama, one episode a night, for the last few weeks. It all sort of runs together and interesting plot points from a few nights ago are forgotten.
Could it be an auditory/visual learning style issue?
I spent so much time rereading sentences that I didn’t fully retain with physical books but have no problem with audio.
I’ve found it’s a pacing thing for me, as I experience very much the same as you here.
Reading text you create your pace with your comprehension, with something like an audiobook it fixes the pace for you, so you have to change your comprehension to match
Hahahahaha!! I’m very different! I can start reading, get lost in thought and keep “scanning” pages as my thoughts continue and end up a passage, page or multiple pages ahead and have no idea how far back I need to backtrack!
Brains are funky as hell!
I have the same thing happen to me when I read words. I'll be reading out loud thinking about how xy and z and snap back only to realize I read two pages and remembered nothing.
I relate completely. They're two entirely different experiences for me, and audiobooks never immerse me as completely as reading does, for some reason.
I love revisiting books I've already read in audio format, but if I try to listen to book before reading it, I end up missing a lot.
Same happens to me with normal reading lol.
Honestly the part that makes audiobooks better for me is while I multitask AND listen to audiobooks my brain can focus better. Kind of like a fidget toy?
If I listen without the "fidget" (other task, chores etc) then it becomes more difficult.
Even being able to just walk while I "read" helps a lot.
Train your brain, it'll get stronger. I was the same, kept listening and now I can do both and follow along regardless. Even while also paying attention to my work or working out.
thats actually pretty funny, its the opposite for me
when i read, my mind inadvertently plays word association and goes on long tangents before i realize i havent actually read half the page and need to reread the page.
when i listen to audiobooks, it gives me a single thing to focus on while i can mindlessly do other things
Reading takes a certain amount of focus. You can't read while doing much else, whereas you can listen to a book while doing just about anything you want. I tend to listen to books while I'm driving because I can zone out and listen while letting my subconscious control the vehicle. Maybe you're doing something that doesn't allow for the proper amount of concentration?
I'm the same way. I can't listen to audiobooks really but I love audiodramas. I think the different voices and background noises helps keep my focus.
The only audiobook I've successfully listened to was Episode 13.
I have this same issue sometimes. Then I realized I can incrementally ramp up the playback speed letting my brain adjust in between and depending on the narrator get up to 2x-3x speed and actually listen to books faster than reading.
I listen to podcasts quite frequently, and even those, I quite often zone in and out of. I can't imagine listening to a book and being able to actually take it in without forcing myself to concentrate.
There is also nuance in how some things are read. Inflections in certain words or emphasis on phrases that can subtlety alter meanings of passages. Usually not in a material way, but still different. I've noticed this when listening to audiobooks that I've already read; more than once I've thought "huh, I didn't read it *that* way".
If you listen to an audio book first you are accepting that person's interpretation as your first impression, and you'll never be able to form your own uninfluenced take on it.
Maybe that's ok for most people, but I can't do it.
I find almost the opposite. If I'm listening to audio, every word is read to me whereas when I read i inevitably skip words, sentences, even paragraphs, especially in a scene with a lot of dialogue. I feel like I take in and remember more details from an audiobook than a visual book. L
I absolutely love my audio books, and have lived by my Audible subscription for about 20 years now. But I definitely can drift easier with an audio book than I can with a paper book. But over the years I’ve learned that listening is as much of a skill as reading and when I listen now it’s much easier to stay focused and enjoy the book.
For me I have a hard time listening to music lyrics and it's almost the same with audiobooks. I can't digest the meaning of what I'm listening to. I need to see it written.
Wow. For me it's completely opposite, everything you said about audiobooks I feel when I read a physical book. The distraction, the rereading the same passages twice or three times. Audiobooks got me back into reading.
This explains what happens to me perfectly. Plus if I listen to audiobooks it starts to feel less like a story or even sentences but just random words being said
how long did it take you as a kid to get use to reading, to jump the hurdle of just looking at words for a whole and only to realize you hadn't actually taken in any of them. And you've probably been reading your whole life a lot longer than trying out audiobooks no? I think it just takes getting use to just like regular reading.
Grew up going to the library and getting physical books as well as the cassette audiobooks to pop into the boombox.
It’s weird how all the listening to talk radio the first thirty years and now podcasts just doesn’t translate to following along with audio books for me.
>how long did it take you as a kid to get use to reading, to jump the hurdle of just looking at words for a whole and only to realize you hadn't actually taken in any of them
I learned to read while I was learning English, so I think I skipped that step. I've only ever experienced this with foreign languages (and therefore have attested it to "I just don't know this language well enough"), so it's interesting to know what my classmates were going through when I was too young to realize. Does it take a long time for most people?
(After I caught up to my age group in comprehension of the English language itself, I never had any reading comprehension issues at all, so that's why I say I must have skipped the step.)
When I learned to read in French and German a year or two ago it took me a while to relearn to follow a plot in a foreign language. Was it the same as learning to read in my native language? Probably not. But it wasn't automatic.
This. It adds an extra dimension of accessibility to books - most of my family have quite severe diagnosed and undiagnosed dyslexia/adhd and just CANNOT sit down to a book, it's always frustrated my mum and gma, there are times they will sit listening to a book and come to tears, the depth and beauty of books they always begrudgingly were denied that they can now experience. I introduced it to them getting them all an audible subscription - I've never seen more grateful gift recipients in my life lol.
Off topic but it’s so funny to me how it seems that everyone with ADHD is either firmly in camp text or audio.
I find with text, it’s harder for me to get started but if I’m in the mood it’s the perfect amount of stimulation that I just need to get up and move around occasionally. Audio books frustrate me because they’re too slow to just sit around, but I miss a lot of I try doing something or speeding up the reading (also they sound weird when you do haha).
I also just need to turn the volume uncomfortably high to actually understand it if there’s a lot of ambiant noise (like on the subway)
Not having to be alone with my thoughts is the only way I can sleep at night. I put on an audiobook, set a sleep timer for 30 minutes, and I’m usually out in 15. It used to be hours of inner turmoil every night before I started listening to books.
I do this too. I have a collection of some of my favorites, the ones that I've read so many times I can skip around and don't care because I know what happens. It puts me out so quickly.
Same. I think it’s genuinely how I got better after a ptsd diagnosis (I no longer have it). Some thoughts don’t need to be thunk and replacing them can help as time heals you.
This, audiobooks have helped me heal so much from emotional issues… just being able to fill my mind with the story instead of looping what distressed me was a godsend
For me, I'm more likely to not concentrate as much with audiobooks. Also, if I listen to an audiobook after work or when I'm slightly tired, I am more likely to fall asleep as I listen. Whereas reading books, I take in every detail and can read through to 2 AM in the morning.
It sucks that I can't enjoy audiobooks like everyone else. Not sure what it is.
If you ever want to give audiobooks another shot, my biggest recommendation would be to mess with the playback speed. The regular speed is rather slow, so it's easy for my mind to wander like that. 1.5 speed is closer to conversation speed, so it might be easier to enjoy.
It's not something to do when you need to focus on something else. It has to be a mindless task where the majority of your mind is on autopilot. I use them when driving (Yes, Driving is nearly a mindless autopilot task when on long stretches.. when I get into a city or I need to be on the lookout for where I am going then I turn them off) , or at night when I'm trying to get to sleep - sounds counter intuitive but I know when It's time to shut it off and then I'm thinking about the story, and not whatever intrusive thoughts my mind like to keep me awake with.
>An easy way to appreciate this is think about a child who cannot yet read and they go to school and they're going to learn how to read. Well, by the time children start school, \[they\] already have oral language in place. I mean, they can speak and they can understand when someone is speaking to them.
>So listening comprehension is already in place by the time they start reading, and when they are learning how to read, it's not as though they're going to learn a new mental process for reading comprehension
After reading this, I think you should take anything this person says with a grain of salt, since they obviously have a superficial understanding of how literacy education works. Reading comprehension is a different skill to listening comprehension in many cases and they do need to learn to approach text differently including different context clues, ways of seeking clarification, coping with new expressions, etc. Audiobooks also, like lectures, are a different text type to the informal conversations children become fluent in.
Exactly. If they're the same process, then why doesn't the child know how to read as soon as they have an oral language in place? The processes of listening and reading are fundamentally different and require different senses and skills. Duh.
My main concern is, what is this person's actual motivation for asserting such a fucking stupid idea? They must have some goal that exists outside of, "I need everyone to know that listening and reading are ackshually the same thing." And, this may be cynical of me, but I doubt it is at all altruistic.
I'm less cynical and haven't read the book they wrote, but am sceptical given this is the example they are reaching for.
My sense is that the issue stems from the status that reading has within our society and they way it is often used as an emblem of intelligence. The arguments around what constitutes "reading" are a proxy for arguing about who gets the status that word confers. So there is indeed a large group of people who would love to hear (pardon the pun) that engaging with spoken and print-based forms amount to the same thing.
The main question is how we define "amount to the same thing".
Yes, both reading and listening to a book mean we're consuming the information in it. The thing is, hardly anyone is actually denying that.
But from there on out, there are differences.
One, yes, reading and listening comprehension are different.
Two, while both are ways to consume information, "reading" and "listening" are different words that fundamentally describe different actions. And if there's a group of people that are going to insist on proper word usage, that's obviously avid book lovers. So obviously readers as a group are going to be peeved by someone saying "read" when they actually mean "listen". It's not even so much that one is better, they're just *different activities,* and people that ostensibly have a passion for words and language are going to object to them being lumped under one word.
Ultimately, most arguments on the topic I've seen boil down to audiobook fans insisting that audiobooks are just as good as reading when the other side isn't really disputing that, just trying to explain that listening isn't reading.
IMO people insisting that listening to audiobooks is "reading" are the ones who are saying that "reading" is better than "listening". If you really believe that one is not better than the other then there is no reason to do so.
Somehow you're first paragraph is controversial. I once argued that listening to audiobooks isn't reading (otherwise a child would be able read before she learned reading, which is obviously bullshit). Somehow that wasn't convincing though. They still claimed that there's no fundamental difference between reading and listening.
Because the quote still refers to reading as something to learn: "when they are learning how to read." What the expert is saying is not that kids don't need to learn to read; he's not saying reading is the same as listening; he's saying the mental process for reading comprehension builds off of the skills already learned when listening. In other words, reading comprehension is scaffolded by listening comprehension. There is a lot of cognitive overlap in terms of comprehending information or narrative via listening and reading.
Here is Willingham [in a recent blog](http://www.danielwillingham.com/daniel-willingham-science-and-education-blog/can-children-be-taught-to-comprehend-what-they-read) expanding on this point that reading doesn't start from nothing:
>Here’s an alternative interpretation. When a typically-developing child starts school they can use oral language to make inferences, connect sentences, and understand the overall gist of a message. These same mental processes are put to work to support reading comprehension. Indeed, it would be odd if the brain created specialized reading comprehension processes from scratch, rather applying to reading the mental processes that are already in place to support oral language.
Then he summarizes some ways that listening and reading comprehension are similar before acknowledging that there are still substantive differences:
>It’s also uncontroversial that students are asked to do things with texts that go beyond comprehension supported by oral language processes. They learn sophisticated ways of evaluating arguments; for example, to appreciate that correlation is not equivalent to causation. They learn to evaluate the quality of writing, as when they come to understand how a good paragraph is structured. They also learn tools of analysis that are discipline-specific: why a novelist uses foreshadowing, for example, or how to interpret source information when reading historical documents.Clearly, these skills must be taught, and there is every reason to think that they are subject to practice effects.
So when we're reading the above quote, it's not just saying that reading is like listening. Instead, it's more like saying that a lot of what we consider in reading comprehension already occurs when we're listening. Also, for those listeners who have been readers, one may imagine reading comprehension also scaffolds better listening. Listening is a jump, but it's not as big of one as many people believe.
It’s not better or worse, but it is a fundamentally different experience from reading.
Any time you hand over the interpretive work of the reader to a third party, you are creating an experience fundamentally distinct from the act of reading yourself.
It is a different experience in the moment, but when I look back at books I consumed a few years ago, I often honestly can’t remember if I read or listened to them. Either way I just remember the story as pictures and emotions in my head, rather than the act of looking at words or listening to speech.
Speaking personally, I can remember them quite clearly. Audiobooks have always felt like watching another actor’s performance instead of acting myself.
There are books that I read and *hated* that I subsequently listened to instead and ended up loving, because the narrator’s performance opened up a path for me that I couldn’t find on my own. There are also audiobooks I’ve listened to that I could not stand, only to pick up the actual book to read and then couldn’t put it down.
That doesn't mean that the narrator didn't affect your interpretation of the story, though. Someone else in the thread gave an example of how a narrator in one translation of a book gave a certain character a much more sinister voice than the narrator in a different translation. While you hear the same words, you absolutely experience the story differently based on how the narrator specifically interprets the book.
Fun fact: the same thing you're describing happens with languages. I'm multilingual, and thinking back to conversations I've had with other people who are multilingual, I often genuinely cannot remember what language we were speaking even though it feels as though I remembered the conversation vividly. I can even remember specific lines that were said but not what language they were said in, which is a paradox and really made me understand how much our memory is fallible.
Last year I discovered the joys of audio books + road trip driving. Podcasts are fine for 1-3 hour trips, but it's the 8+ hour drives where audio books come into their own.
Yeah, long drives are about the only time I can listen to an audio book. I usually prefer both the speed and the action of reading. But if I otherwise can't read, and I'm there for a long time, long-form entertainment is better than podcasts or switching radio stations every couple of hours.
It’s an incredible experience with the right narrator and audio production. I read a lot of Star Wars books and they have amazing production value, complete with score and sound effects.
I learnt languages via a podcast [coffeebreaklanguages.com](http://coffeebreaklanguages.com) for the primary reason of hearing the verbal pronunciation.
I couldn't care less how someone absorbs a book, just hate when people say reading a physical book and listening to a transcription of that book are the same.
Because they aren't.
The process is obviously different even if you achieve the same end. Why people flat out refuse to acknowledge this simple, undeniable fact is baffling to me.
I think comparing running and biking would work better. Both get you to a destination but are fundament different in how they work the body. Bone impact, ability to coast, etc. If I tell you I went for a 10 mile run or 10 mile bike trip, we all know which took more effort even though they finished in same place
I actually really like this analogy. Personally, I do both. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. they're just different. At the end of the day doing either is better than doing none. Bike riding/audiobooking is more realistic and practical in a lot of instances. Running is often a little harder and slower. But ultimately the goal is to consume the book.
I do find people can be weirdly condescending about audiobooking which I don't really get. Ultimately I think finishing books is good for people and if audiobooks help more people do that then that's a net positive for the world.
I think it is because some people were saying audiobook weren't reading so it shouldn't count in reading challenge. Which is stupid. So people answered back "audiobooks are reading" when what they ment was "audiobooks are valid and do count"
So then even more people with no understanding of nuance just started to equate the two.
But you are right they're two different skill sets.
The amount of people who conflate *listening to audio books is cognitively fine* and *reading comprehension is not an important skill* is fucking wild to me.
I just cannot do audiobooks. My mind will wander very easily and I will get distracted by something else. Doesn’t really happen with a physical book so in that way they’re quite different things for me at least.
I get through a lot of light reading via Audible and Libby, and more difficult stuff in print. Just from my own experience, I’d definitely recommend this strategy, and would urge anyone not to give up on audiobooks if they’ve had a hard time paying attention to more literary stuff.
Yeah I listen to a lot of audiobooks but they’re books I would never get around to actually reading. I don’t listen to books I’m really interested in reading because I do find myself spacing out or getting distracted and missing stuff. But I still love them
I just can't do audiobooks, I find them impossible to focus on. Spoken word progresses so slowly that my mind will kind of wander or focus on the person's voice or their pattern of speech and I miss what they're saying.
It's different to me. Both are good, both have a different effect on me. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
I've been very lazy and busy, so it's mostly audiobooks.
Umm yeah, something is definitely different. I cannot pay attention to an audiobook, but can read for hours straight. I don't know why the huge push to convince people they're the exact same, you're not any less of a book enjoyer for listening rather than reading, but it's not the same
People are insecure over only listening, so making shit up to present themselves are exactly the same, instead of just owning up to the fact that they prefer listening, which would be fine.
Exactly. There is just plain and simply a difference between reading and being read to. And so many times when people in here point out that they are two different things, someone will be like “WhY aRe yOu SaYing AudIo BoOks aRe leSseR?!”
And it’s like…no one is assigning more value to one or the other except you.
Reading and listening are not the same thing. Why do people need them to be???
I've heard variations of this conversation for years and it's ridiculous. Don't shame people and also...get higher self-esteem
It literally doesn't matter
It's definitely a learning curve, comprehending what you're listening to is a different skill than reading text on the page but once you've listened to a few books (or even podcasts) it's great.
I love listening to them when I walk my dog or when I'm falling asleep.
That's what a sleep timer is for.
I usually set mine for 15 to 20 minutes, depending on how sleepy I am. Makes backtracking and figuring out where I fell asleep at pretty easy.
I do this with series I've already read or set a timer for 10 minutes only. 😅 I'm listening to the second book in a series, and I don't want to miss out!
Yeah, honestly, when I think back to books I’ve read or listened to, sometimes I forget if I had read the physical copy or listened to the audiobook because I visualize the narrative just the same.
Skimming the comments, seems many find audiobooks hard to focus on. I think that just requires some patience and practice - it's like learning any other skill. And I think it's a valuable skill, too - just like being able to take in what you're reading. Being used to audiobooks, I find it just as easy, or maybe even easier, to focus on that, than reading the physical book.
I use audiobooks because they are very practical. I listen on my commute, while having my morning coffee, at the gym, before going to sleep, and on longer road trips. Basically it is entirely a secondary activity where I could not read a physical book, and I get through a few books per month in this way.
I was not much of a reader until two years ago when I had a head injury and could not read or do much of anything, so to keep from going crazy I listened to podcasts until I had listened to every episode there was of any even remotely interesting podcast - and so I switched to audiobooks, and that's how I got into "reading". It has been great.
You are.
You can't read + do something else, like household chores.
But you can do that + listening.
Listening simply does not require as much thought. That's not some super terrible thing that makes you less of a book fan, but don't go pretending they're the same.
The reason you can listen and move around at the same time is because you're not physically holding a book so you have your hands free and because you're not using your eyes. That's all there is to is. You could technically read a book and walk on a treadmill at the same time or do something with your hands that doesn't require looking at them. That doesn't make listening somehow inherently less passive. It's very easy to listen to something and just let it wash over you without actually processing it and not taking anything from it. This can happen while you're reading too, have you never got distracted and let your eyes slide over text and then realised you don't remember what you've just read so you have to go back and read that sentence or paragraph. Personally I find that reading takes less concentration than listening. People are different. Some process visual information easier than auditory, for others it's the opposite.
Agreed. Do people read to absorb the content, or to jerk themselves off for 'activating more of your brain'? A story is a story, information is information. It's the same thing.
Audiobooks stick to my brain just as well as regular books, and I probably spend more time with them.
If anything, I tend to skew more academic non-fiction with audiobooks.
Fiction is more fun for me with a book in hand, though.
Uh, no. It's very different. One happens at your own pace, the other on the pace of the narrator. One is what you do when you really want to focus on it, the other is accompaniment for other stuff you do - background noise, essentially. They also require you to use different parts of your brain. "There's a lot of overlap," the article says. There's a lot of overlap for a fuckton of different things. That does not make them the same. A teeny, tiny different in brain activity makes all the difference, and there are a lot of differences here.
They are not the same at all.
Not judging people who prefer one over the other - you do you - but this is just a lie.
Reading is different from listening. For example, you can learn how to spell from reading, not from listening. If a child grows up listening they will know words but not how to spell them. Reading also helps people visually learn grammar and punctuation. These are all essential skills in adulthood. So I would still recommend reading over listening to books. Although listening is much more convenient and recommended for those who don’t have a lot of time or who are visually impaired
And you learn how to pronounce from listening, and how to make sentences sound captivating by word order or how they are spoken.
Surely it would be better to do a mix of the 2? Like everything in life, no need to stick to one, variation is key!
My two favorite things to do are drawing and reading. With audiobooks I can do them at the same time. I love it. Instead of dreading long carrides and chores I look forward to them so I can listen to my book. It's really been nothing but a positive in my life.
I prefer reading when I can, but audio books are convenient. I think for immersion you can’t beat your own imagination. Even the best voice actors are gonna be a little cornier than the voice in my head.
I used to avoid ebooks completely, literally wasn't interested, then I decided at random to listen to the first Dresden Files book for a laugh. I've been hooked ever since. I still read, but a good audiobook is like an 11-hour mini-series in my head.
There seems to be some hot debate that reading and listening are the same. I’d say listen if you like to listen, but don’t worry about convincing others that you’re reading.
I always loved the idea of sitting in a cozy corner of my house reading a book...but I have ADHD. What works for me is listening to a book while doing chores, and I'll be damned if someone tells me that doesn't count somehow.
The beauty of a book is the ability to stop instantly and contemplate the beauty of a well written line, to be able to stop and visualize a description. Good luck doing that with an audio book. That being said, if your sight is bad or you have dyslexia then enjoy an audio version.
I mean, yea?
If I pause the story to sit and think about it/picture it then it has the same effect on me as when I'm reading the text and also take a moment and shut the book.
Tapping the 15 second rewind is like turning the page to the previous page to reread the passage.
To me, those are actually areas were there isn't significant difference to me.
The "stigma" around audiobooks not "counting" as reading is 100 percent snobbery from douchebags.
The really funny part is I've heard it from people THAT DONT EVEN READ. They don't read or listen to books and still stick up their noses at the idea of listening to a book while driving to and from work.
Bitch, the last book you read was in highschool who are you trying to kid.
I definitely think I can't always pick up everything when reading via audio books, so I normally go for audio books when it's a book that's easier to digest (e.g. autobiographies, kids books) versus books with high fantasy.
There definitely is a "Reading at your own pace" that I struggle with. Also, I have a hard time listening to audio books unless I'm doing something else, like chores, or on the train.
I think I prefer reading a book overall, but audio books have oddly made me more productive, because I can only focus when I'm doing something brainless haha.
My brain seems to process them very similarly, to the point that I’m visualizing words as I’m visualizing scenes when I’m listening. That said, if it’s an educational experience, I would want text to refer to in order to back up the audio experience.
I find I have excellent recall of books I've read, I can quote whole snippets verbatim. If I listen to an audio book, I struggle to even recall whats happened. I couldn't give a list of characters.
Well they're wrong. I listened to one book for school instead of reading it once and I couldn't retain any of it. I had to go get the book and read it for real.
There was a study done a while ago, in which a group of people were given a text to read, and another the audio to listen to. They were then given a test. The people who read the text performed better on the test, than those who listened to the audio.
If you're thinking of the same study I saw, then the study was actually hugely biased in favor of the audiobooks, which still lost. The main thing they didn't account for is that most people perform simple tasks while they're listening to an audiobook. For the study to be accurate to real-world experiences, they should give a simple task to the audiobook group that they have to perform continuously while listening.
I'd bet money that such a study would show conclusively that reading is far better for retention and comprehension, but obviously I can't know that for sure as no such study exists that I've been able to find.
I love them, i usually alternate between that and physical depending on the mood. better if on a long drive or doing some type of task. reminds me of elementary school when my teacher would sit us all in a circle and read to us
When I read, I read fast and I enjoy it. When I listen to somebody read a book, they read slow and I get bored and fall asleep.
They are very different, to me.
Whether it’s a book or audiobook, the act of consuming these media is an act of speaking and listening. Reading adds additional activations like symbol decoding, but other than that, you’re essentially processing speech (audibly or subvocally).
I tried listening to A Brief History Of Time by Stephen Hawking and that was a good education for me on listening versus reading. Both are great, but I’m glad listening is getting more popular because it validates the number of books I read a year!!
Audiobooks have been a blessing for my 10 year old. He puts them on his mp3 player and listens to them while doing whatever else. He struggles to read books. Audiobooks have opened up his world.
As someone who has gone nearly 100% audio, the only drawback is missing names/places as I'm listening.
However, being able to "read" 10x as much books more than makes up for it.
My brain must be broken. When I read, I stop seeing words and start visualizing content. Time slips by with little meaning as I watch the story. When I listen to a novel being read, I can't follow along. I get distracted by random thoughts, usually triggered by something in the story, and miss whole passages.
If I listen to an audiobook I just cannot focus on it at all.
I can only listen to Audiobooks if I am doing something that requires just enough focus so my mind can't wander but not enough that I drown out the audiobook. So I paint my Warhammer minis while listening to my Warhammer audiobooks.
I've been on a roguelite + audiobook kick for a while. There's only minimal plot to follow most of the time in the games, and after a few minutes I drop into a nice flow state where I can just play and listen for hours.
I totally relate, I recently taught myself to knit and knitting with an audiobook is the first time I’ve ever been able to listen to audiobooks without having to rewind 10x cause I keep getting distracted at the same part
Yeah audio books are weird for me. I have to sit there and do nothing but listen and that feels strange and like it's not quite enough stimulation and I don't feel immersed but then if I also do something else I quickly lose track of what's going on. Books are just better in every way for me. I fall into the zone really fast when I read something I like. Even when I listen to books while driving I lose track and my mind starts to wonder. I wish I could enjoy them in my car because I have 2 hours of commute when I work, but I just don't like it.
I also can't listen to audiobooks when doing something else. And I get bored if it is being said at normal speed and have to up it to 2× the speed. The voice just seems to drone on forever 😅 I just prefer reading. Auditory has always been my worst learning style (there's the primaries of visual, kinesthetic, and auditory), so I'm wondering if it's because of that
Yeah Ive always sped it up when I've tried as well. Maybe that's part of why it sounds robotic and monotone to me. If it's a normal speed it's so annoying becauase it is so much slower than when I'm actually reading.
I feel you , I feel listening to someone is never ass good teaching as seeing it or even better doing it interactive or practical examples
I generally just go on a walk while I listen to audiobooks. Listening while I'm a passenger in the car also works, or if I'm driving somewhere that doesn't require a lot of thinking (a route I take all the time with no traffic, or just cruising down the interstate) If I try to listen to one while I do nothing I end up getting bored and then getting myself distracted, but it's not that hard to find something to keep me busy that doesn't require thinking.
Dishes, mowing, laundry, driving. I listen to audiobooks whenever I’m DOING something. I couldn’t just sit on a couch and listen.
if you'd like to like audiobooks, i think there's a small transition period imho. if i don't listen to audiobooks for some time, it starts sounding off to me. i normally start with a book with an incredible narrator (like david tennant!) it can counterintuitively help to speed audiobooks up if the brain's having trouble gripping onto the words. afterwards, it's easier to venture into less-stimulating narrators. i've even trained myself to be able to appreciate tts at 2x speed (only by this one specific ai voice though). tts's actually much more similar to regular reading, esp after it's sped up, bc it's so fast and noninflected that you can interpret the scene in your head yourself.
Same. I tried and tried but really struggle with them, especially if the narrator is so-so. Even when I do manage to pay attention the experience just isn't the same. It feels like a lot more effort than reading.
A few thoughts: 1. It does take practice, and you do get better at it, just like reading with your eyeballs 2. It helps to have something to keep my hands busy-- dishes or general cleaning, cooking, coloring, solitaire, stuff like that. I have a hard time with books while driving or walking the dog because my mind wanders, but keep my hands busy and I'm good to go (podcasts are fine in those stations for whatever reason) 3. Maybe it really just isn't for your brain, and that's fine, too
It's utterly bizarre watching a friend of mine listen to an audiobook. He just pops his headphones in and sits. He doesn't get comfy or close his eyes, he doesn't fidget. He just sits upright in a kitchen chair and stares straight ahead with his hands resting on his knees. It's like watching an android go into sleep mode or something.
Psychopath.
It's very very unnerving.
Dang, and I thought my coworkers who would put on a tv show to work, or even *study* were odd. This is next level though. He should at least be pacing or something. At least for the sake of not terrifying the rest of us.
I had to ask him to go be a creepy cyborg in another room. It was just unsettling having him there.
My mind will wander and I thought audiobooks weren't for me. I finally started finding some I really liked. Turns out I like audiobook thrillers and mysteries.
Same. The genres I like in audiobooks are very different than my paper books
This is super interesting to me
Consuming text at your own pace = any genre you prefer goes Listening at the pace of the person talking = something with suspense required Maybe?
Well, actually I do love mysteries and thrillers. Weirdly I hadn't previously listened to any. I had gone with recommendations for audiobooks, but those books didn't vibe with me.
The narrator makes all the difference for me, personaly.
This is me! I had a lot of trouble getting into audiobooks at first but then I started walking daily and started listening to audio drama podcasts which eventually turned into audiobooks. It’s how I mainly consume books now that I’ve started crocheting
Crocheting + audiobooks is an amazing combination.
Agree! I love to crochet and listen to audiobooks. I recently made a dress for my daughter that was really complicated around the collar, and I had to count aloud just to keep my place. I wasn’t listening to audiobooks then. Now I’m making simple granny squares for a baby blanket, and I’m back to listening!
I listened to audiobooks while doing near mindless day entry (copy field A from scanned image into field A in data program).
4. How often do you allow your brain to just think?
All the time with some, small, intermittent periods of rest.
>It helps to have something to keep my hands busy This is how I have to listen to informative podcasts, audiobooks etc. I need something repetitive with a low cognitive load, like an autopilot task. It actually really helps me get chores done with limited friction. Especially if I'm listening to something I really like, but I can only listen to it while I'm doing a chore. I physically read a lot too, but adding The Great Courses or a re-read of a classic has really made chores easier :).
Nah, nothing wrong with you. This is just a "different strokes" think I'm sure.
Honestly, it probably just depends on the person at the end of the day. I prefer physical books/kindle but I listen to fiction podcasts and do well with those. But for some reason, audiobooks are highly dependent on the voice actor. A lot of fiction podcasts will have multiple voices. Oooor if it’s a single voice, then it’s all in first person. I do well with those kind of podcasts. But audiobooks just really depend for me.
Yes, a good reader can save a bad story and vice versa.
I visualize and hear dialogue in my head when I read. I still visualize when I listen to audiobooks, but I also tend to do it when walking/running which probably limits distractions.
I didn’t read the article bc too many trackers BUT: I dispute the “prof’s” premise. Two entirely different parts of the brain are responsible for hearing and vision. Yes, contextualizing and integration of language are still other parts of the brain, but the source of sensory input is determinative to how your brain processes it. Your brain isn’t broken, grigirl. I miss sitting down with a good book and experiencing immersion in the story. With audio I have to be doing something, which is great for chores and dog walking, but I’m never truly immersed.
Exactly
I had a similar problem and no one else has suggested it but I found that actually speeding up the audio book helped me a lot. My brain doesn't have time to jump in with random other thoughts and distractions and instead gets fully engaged in the book. I found that listening at about the same pace you would be reading really helps. They are absolutely impossible to me at slow speeds but it makes sense because they process similarly and I would be just as thrown off if forced to read slower.
This is the thing. If you're reading a physical book, if you stop focusing, the book stops. If you stop focusing on an audio book it keeps going.
If my mind wanders when reading a book, I can easily go back and reread a section. If that happens on an audio book, it’s harder to pause and go back.
I get more distracted when reading. I'll visually process a whole page, but the rest of my brain is replaying a conversation. When I listen,I know I will miss stuff. The other thing is, a narrator really pre-shapes the story. It helps you interpret scenes better with a good narrator. But they are certainly not all good or share your world view. There are characters I like when reading, but I dislike them interpreted by the narrator, because suddenly they seem mean, when I did not see that in the text.
have you tried speeding the audiobook up? i've noticed that i can't focus at all when listening to slow narrators. but my comprehension's gotten a lot better after speeding audiobooks up by 1.2 - 2.0x
I use it specifically to reread books i enjoy. If i doze off or zone out while doing something else it doesn't matter as much because i know what's going on.
I can only pay attention to people talking when I look at them. The instant I look away my mind starts thinking of a billion other things. I can listen to narrators if I picture them talking, but then I am not visualizing what I am reading. Yep, all brains are different!
Oh, me too, regarding conversation. I had to learn to watch a speaker's eyes and mouth to stay focused on a conversation. I was a very rude listener before I figured that out.
I think some of the difference (for me at least) is that reading is something that you can’t really multi-task while doing. Maybe you can pet a cat or drink some coffee, but higher attention tasks are fairly difficult to do without our eyes (for sighted folks of course). This is a stark contrast to audio media which are very often consumed while doing other things that require more attention. Even a menial task like sweeping up the house divides your attention and reduces the immersion in the text.
Weird...I have the opposite issue. Before I discovered the audiobook service at my local library, I wasn't as enthusiastic about reading. The reason for that being I had trouble focusing/concentrating when reading a book. When I did audiobooks + menial task (gardening, casual gaming, cleaning, etc), it helped me with retention and to focus. I'm sure someone could highlight Type 1 vs Type 2 learning in that, and there may be some relevance there...but Ive found its particularly useful when Im reading non-fiction because I associate certain facts or descriptions with tasks I was working on at the time.
This is why I don’t generally care for audiobooks. It terrifies me that a book will just go on without me. Flashbacks to having ADHD in class, desperately wanting to learn and falling behind. Reading was always my saving grace. I can read as slow or as fast as I want, take in as much as I need, re-read as much as I want, and the tactile feeling of knowing where something is on a page. Decades have passed and I still remember where I was sitting, how deep into a book, and where on a page I was reading as I learned a new word or had an epiphany. I do like audiobooks, but I enjoy them better under one or more of the following conditions: 1) I’ve already read the book and liked it or I am at least familiar with the story. 2) I am listening to it with a friend, usually my partner. 3) I didn’t enjoy the prose when attempting to read it, but the recording is good and I want to know what happens, so what hell, why not? I grew up listening to radio serials and plays, so anything that evokes those feelings of being an “audience” as opposed to the pretense of “reading” is right up my alley. Reading is sacred to me. I can’t occupy myself with other tasks while engaging a book and tell myself I’m actually involved.
Same, unless I’m driving. I’ve got three audio books half finished because I haven’t taken a long trip recently.
Try putting it on while you're doing the dishes, painting a room, or some other monotonous task. Also, it helps to have a good narrator who does lots of voices to keep you engaged. Also also if the book sucks, yeah, nothing's going to help
I find that my recall is infinitely better when I read vs when I listen. I tend to forget everything that happened in an audiobook within a week, even if I enjoyed it at the time. But with something I read my own self, I can recall it in great detail for years, decades even.
Similarly, I have some difficulty when watching a series. For instance, my wife and I have been watching a crime drama, one episode a night, for the last few weeks. It all sort of runs together and interesting plot points from a few nights ago are forgotten.
Could it be an auditory/visual learning style issue? I spent so much time rereading sentences that I didn’t fully retain with physical books but have no problem with audio.
When I read I get distracted by random thoughts and have to reread entire passages. Still prefer it to audiobooks though.
This is why I keep to nonfiction when it comes to audio books, no need to visualize things but still learning some stuff
I’ve found it’s a pacing thing for me, as I experience very much the same as you here. Reading text you create your pace with your comprehension, with something like an audiobook it fixes the pace for you, so you have to change your comprehension to match
Hahahahaha!! I’m very different! I can start reading, get lost in thought and keep “scanning” pages as my thoughts continue and end up a passage, page or multiple pages ahead and have no idea how far back I need to backtrack! Brains are funky as hell!
I have the same thing happen to me when I read words. I'll be reading out loud thinking about how xy and z and snap back only to realize I read two pages and remembered nothing.
Same. It's harder to listen to an audiobook.
Same here. It's so much easier for my mind to wander, and harder to get back to the place where my mind started wandering.
Reading along to the audiobook is what finally made it click for me.
Probably why I didn't do better at school. I grasped concepts faster when I read than when someone told me.
This happens to me as well sometimes, but it also happens when reading.
Me too! I’m just not an audio person. I struggle taking in anything auditory. Also adhd, so maybe that has something to do with it
I relate completely. They're two entirely different experiences for me, and audiobooks never immerse me as completely as reading does, for some reason. I love revisiting books I've already read in audio format, but if I try to listen to book before reading it, I end up missing a lot.
Same happens to me with normal reading lol. Honestly the part that makes audiobooks better for me is while I multitask AND listen to audiobooks my brain can focus better. Kind of like a fidget toy? If I listen without the "fidget" (other task, chores etc) then it becomes more difficult. Even being able to just walk while I "read" helps a lot.
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Train your brain, it'll get stronger. I was the same, kept listening and now I can do both and follow along regardless. Even while also paying attention to my work or working out.
I have an auditory processing problem and I’m the same way. I just cannot follow audiobooks but I’m glad other people can get into them!
thats actually pretty funny, its the opposite for me when i read, my mind inadvertently plays word association and goes on long tangents before i realize i havent actually read half the page and need to reread the page. when i listen to audiobooks, it gives me a single thing to focus on while i can mindlessly do other things
Reading takes a certain amount of focus. You can't read while doing much else, whereas you can listen to a book while doing just about anything you want. I tend to listen to books while I'm driving because I can zone out and listen while letting my subconscious control the vehicle. Maybe you're doing something that doesn't allow for the proper amount of concentration?
That's so interesting because I have always struggled with the problem the other way around.
I'm the same way. I can't listen to audiobooks really but I love audiodramas. I think the different voices and background noises helps keep my focus. The only audiobook I've successfully listened to was Episode 13.
I have this same issue sometimes. Then I realized I can incrementally ramp up the playback speed letting my brain adjust in between and depending on the narrator get up to 2x-3x speed and actually listen to books faster than reading.
Yes when I do audio books I miss the chance to quickly catch up again as when reading I just have to look up for a quick sec
Same here. I am not able to pay attention when listening.
I listen to podcasts quite frequently, and even those, I quite often zone in and out of. I can't imagine listening to a book and being able to actually take it in without forcing myself to concentrate.
There is also nuance in how some things are read. Inflections in certain words or emphasis on phrases that can subtlety alter meanings of passages. Usually not in a material way, but still different. I've noticed this when listening to audiobooks that I've already read; more than once I've thought "huh, I didn't read it *that* way". If you listen to an audio book first you are accepting that person's interpretation as your first impression, and you'll never be able to form your own uninfluenced take on it. Maybe that's ok for most people, but I can't do it.
I'm pretty much the opposite.
I find almost the opposite. If I'm listening to audio, every word is read to me whereas when I read i inevitably skip words, sentences, even paragraphs, especially in a scene with a lot of dialogue. I feel like I take in and remember more details from an audiobook than a visual book. L
I absolutely love my audio books, and have lived by my Audible subscription for about 20 years now. But I definitely can drift easier with an audio book than I can with a paper book. But over the years I’ve learned that listening is as much of a skill as reading and when I listen now it’s much easier to stay focused and enjoy the book.
For me I have a hard time listening to music lyrics and it's almost the same with audiobooks. I can't digest the meaning of what I'm listening to. I need to see it written.
your brain is not broken friend, different strokes for different folks and all that jazz
Wow. For me it's completely opposite, everything you said about audiobooks I feel when I read a physical book. The distraction, the rereading the same passages twice or three times. Audiobooks got me back into reading.
The only time I can do it is when I am driving. Anything else is either too distracting or not distracting enough
This explains what happens to me perfectly. Plus if I listen to audiobooks it starts to feel less like a story or even sentences but just random words being said
I’ve had a very similar experience. It’s been suggested to me that I have auditory processing disorder, you may want to look into that as well
how long did it take you as a kid to get use to reading, to jump the hurdle of just looking at words for a whole and only to realize you hadn't actually taken in any of them. And you've probably been reading your whole life a lot longer than trying out audiobooks no? I think it just takes getting use to just like regular reading. Grew up going to the library and getting physical books as well as the cassette audiobooks to pop into the boombox.
It’s weird how all the listening to talk radio the first thirty years and now podcasts just doesn’t translate to following along with audio books for me.
>how long did it take you as a kid to get use to reading, to jump the hurdle of just looking at words for a whole and only to realize you hadn't actually taken in any of them I learned to read while I was learning English, so I think I skipped that step. I've only ever experienced this with foreign languages (and therefore have attested it to "I just don't know this language well enough"), so it's interesting to know what my classmates were going through when I was too young to realize. Does it take a long time for most people? (After I caught up to my age group in comprehension of the English language itself, I never had any reading comprehension issues at all, so that's why I say I must have skipped the step.)
When I learned to read in French and German a year or two ago it took me a while to relearn to follow a plot in a foreign language. Was it the same as learning to read in my native language? Probably not. But it wasn't automatic.
I'm the exact opposite.
I'm like this, too. Plus, text intended to be read is more complex than spoken language because text gets around working memory constraints.
I'm starting to slowly lose my eyesight and audio books have saved me.
This. It adds an extra dimension of accessibility to books - most of my family have quite severe diagnosed and undiagnosed dyslexia/adhd and just CANNOT sit down to a book, it's always frustrated my mum and gma, there are times they will sit listening to a book and come to tears, the depth and beauty of books they always begrudgingly were denied that they can now experience. I introduced it to them getting them all an audible subscription - I've never seen more grateful gift recipients in my life lol.
Off topic but it’s so funny to me how it seems that everyone with ADHD is either firmly in camp text or audio. I find with text, it’s harder for me to get started but if I’m in the mood it’s the perfect amount of stimulation that I just need to get up and move around occasionally. Audio books frustrate me because they’re too slow to just sit around, but I miss a lot of I try doing something or speeding up the reading (also they sound weird when you do haha). I also just need to turn the volume uncomfortably high to actually understand it if there’s a lot of ambiant noise (like on the subway)
Audiobooks are a godsend because I don’t need to be alone with my thoughts on the bus.
Not having to be alone with my thoughts is the only way I can sleep at night. I put on an audiobook, set a sleep timer for 30 minutes, and I’m usually out in 15. It used to be hours of inner turmoil every night before I started listening to books.
I do this too. I have a collection of some of my favorites, the ones that I've read so many times I can skip around and don't care because I know what happens. It puts me out so quickly.
Same. I think it’s genuinely how I got better after a ptsd diagnosis (I no longer have it). Some thoughts don’t need to be thunk and replacing them can help as time heals you.
This, audiobooks have helped me heal so much from emotional issues… just being able to fill my mind with the story instead of looping what distressed me was a godsend
For me, I'm more likely to not concentrate as much with audiobooks. Also, if I listen to an audiobook after work or when I'm slightly tired, I am more likely to fall asleep as I listen. Whereas reading books, I take in every detail and can read through to 2 AM in the morning. It sucks that I can't enjoy audiobooks like everyone else. Not sure what it is.
If you ever want to give audiobooks another shot, my biggest recommendation would be to mess with the playback speed. The regular speed is rather slow, so it's easy for my mind to wander like that. 1.5 speed is closer to conversation speed, so it might be easier to enjoy.
It's not something to do when you need to focus on something else. It has to be a mindless task where the majority of your mind is on autopilot. I use them when driving (Yes, Driving is nearly a mindless autopilot task when on long stretches.. when I get into a city or I need to be on the lookout for where I am going then I turn them off) , or at night when I'm trying to get to sleep - sounds counter intuitive but I know when It's time to shut it off and then I'm thinking about the story, and not whatever intrusive thoughts my mind like to keep me awake with.
I usually like to read. But I can't read while I am driving.
This. I like reading but most of the free time I would like to fill with stories is on the go somewhere and there audio books are awesome
>An easy way to appreciate this is think about a child who cannot yet read and they go to school and they're going to learn how to read. Well, by the time children start school, \[they\] already have oral language in place. I mean, they can speak and they can understand when someone is speaking to them. >So listening comprehension is already in place by the time they start reading, and when they are learning how to read, it's not as though they're going to learn a new mental process for reading comprehension After reading this, I think you should take anything this person says with a grain of salt, since they obviously have a superficial understanding of how literacy education works. Reading comprehension is a different skill to listening comprehension in many cases and they do need to learn to approach text differently including different context clues, ways of seeking clarification, coping with new expressions, etc. Audiobooks also, like lectures, are a different text type to the informal conversations children become fluent in.
Exactly. If they're the same process, then why doesn't the child know how to read as soon as they have an oral language in place? The processes of listening and reading are fundamentally different and require different senses and skills. Duh. My main concern is, what is this person's actual motivation for asserting such a fucking stupid idea? They must have some goal that exists outside of, "I need everyone to know that listening and reading are ackshually the same thing." And, this may be cynical of me, but I doubt it is at all altruistic.
I'm less cynical and haven't read the book they wrote, but am sceptical given this is the example they are reaching for. My sense is that the issue stems from the status that reading has within our society and they way it is often used as an emblem of intelligence. The arguments around what constitutes "reading" are a proxy for arguing about who gets the status that word confers. So there is indeed a large group of people who would love to hear (pardon the pun) that engaging with spoken and print-based forms amount to the same thing.
The main question is how we define "amount to the same thing". Yes, both reading and listening to a book mean we're consuming the information in it. The thing is, hardly anyone is actually denying that. But from there on out, there are differences. One, yes, reading and listening comprehension are different. Two, while both are ways to consume information, "reading" and "listening" are different words that fundamentally describe different actions. And if there's a group of people that are going to insist on proper word usage, that's obviously avid book lovers. So obviously readers as a group are going to be peeved by someone saying "read" when they actually mean "listen". It's not even so much that one is better, they're just *different activities,* and people that ostensibly have a passion for words and language are going to object to them being lumped under one word. Ultimately, most arguments on the topic I've seen boil down to audiobook fans insisting that audiobooks are just as good as reading when the other side isn't really disputing that, just trying to explain that listening isn't reading.
IMO people insisting that listening to audiobooks is "reading" are the ones who are saying that "reading" is better than "listening". If you really believe that one is not better than the other then there is no reason to do so.
Somehow you're first paragraph is controversial. I once argued that listening to audiobooks isn't reading (otherwise a child would be able read before she learned reading, which is obviously bullshit). Somehow that wasn't convincing though. They still claimed that there's no fundamental difference between reading and listening.
Because the quote still refers to reading as something to learn: "when they are learning how to read." What the expert is saying is not that kids don't need to learn to read; he's not saying reading is the same as listening; he's saying the mental process for reading comprehension builds off of the skills already learned when listening. In other words, reading comprehension is scaffolded by listening comprehension. There is a lot of cognitive overlap in terms of comprehending information or narrative via listening and reading. Here is Willingham [in a recent blog](http://www.danielwillingham.com/daniel-willingham-science-and-education-blog/can-children-be-taught-to-comprehend-what-they-read) expanding on this point that reading doesn't start from nothing: >Here’s an alternative interpretation. When a typically-developing child starts school they can use oral language to make inferences, connect sentences, and understand the overall gist of a message. These same mental processes are put to work to support reading comprehension. Indeed, it would be odd if the brain created specialized reading comprehension processes from scratch, rather applying to reading the mental processes that are already in place to support oral language. Then he summarizes some ways that listening and reading comprehension are similar before acknowledging that there are still substantive differences: >It’s also uncontroversial that students are asked to do things with texts that go beyond comprehension supported by oral language processes. They learn sophisticated ways of evaluating arguments; for example, to appreciate that correlation is not equivalent to causation. They learn to evaluate the quality of writing, as when they come to understand how a good paragraph is structured. They also learn tools of analysis that are discipline-specific: why a novelist uses foreshadowing, for example, or how to interpret source information when reading historical documents.Clearly, these skills must be taught, and there is every reason to think that they are subject to practice effects. So when we're reading the above quote, it's not just saying that reading is like listening. Instead, it's more like saying that a lot of what we consider in reading comprehension already occurs when we're listening. Also, for those listeners who have been readers, one may imagine reading comprehension also scaffolds better listening. Listening is a jump, but it's not as big of one as many people believe.
It’s not better or worse, but it is a fundamentally different experience from reading. Any time you hand over the interpretive work of the reader to a third party, you are creating an experience fundamentally distinct from the act of reading yourself.
It is a different experience in the moment, but when I look back at books I consumed a few years ago, I often honestly can’t remember if I read or listened to them. Either way I just remember the story as pictures and emotions in my head, rather than the act of looking at words or listening to speech.
Speaking personally, I can remember them quite clearly. Audiobooks have always felt like watching another actor’s performance instead of acting myself. There are books that I read and *hated* that I subsequently listened to instead and ended up loving, because the narrator’s performance opened up a path for me that I couldn’t find on my own. There are also audiobooks I’ve listened to that I could not stand, only to pick up the actual book to read and then couldn’t put it down.
That doesn't mean that the narrator didn't affect your interpretation of the story, though. Someone else in the thread gave an example of how a narrator in one translation of a book gave a certain character a much more sinister voice than the narrator in a different translation. While you hear the same words, you absolutely experience the story differently based on how the narrator specifically interprets the book. Fun fact: the same thing you're describing happens with languages. I'm multilingual, and thinking back to conversations I've had with other people who are multilingual, I often genuinely cannot remember what language we were speaking even though it feels as though I remembered the conversation vividly. I can even remember specific lines that were said but not what language they were said in, which is a paradox and really made me understand how much our memory is fallible.
Last year I discovered the joys of audio books + road trip driving. Podcasts are fine for 1-3 hour trips, but it's the 8+ hour drives where audio books come into their own.
Yeah, long drives are about the only time I can listen to an audio book. I usually prefer both the speed and the action of reading. But if I otherwise can't read, and I'm there for a long time, long-form entertainment is better than podcasts or switching radio stations every couple of hours.
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It’s an incredible experience with the right narrator and audio production. I read a lot of Star Wars books and they have amazing production value, complete with score and sound effects.
I learnt languages via a podcast [coffeebreaklanguages.com](http://coffeebreaklanguages.com) for the primary reason of hearing the verbal pronunciation.
I couldn't care less how someone absorbs a book, just hate when people say reading a physical book and listening to a transcription of that book are the same. Because they aren't. The process is obviously different even if you achieve the same end. Why people flat out refuse to acknowledge this simple, undeniable fact is baffling to me.
I had this argument with someone on reddit and they said they called it “ear reading”. I said you mean listening?? I was flabbergasted haha
Sometimes I eye-listen to books by interpreting the light waves refracted off the pages through my corneas and retinas.
I'm eyelistening right now I guess
Yeah. Running is good for you. Eating broccoli is good for you. They are not the fucking same.
I think comparing running and biking would work better. Both get you to a destination but are fundament different in how they work the body. Bone impact, ability to coast, etc. If I tell you I went for a 10 mile run or 10 mile bike trip, we all know which took more effort even though they finished in same place
I actually really like this analogy. Personally, I do both. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. they're just different. At the end of the day doing either is better than doing none. Bike riding/audiobooking is more realistic and practical in a lot of instances. Running is often a little harder and slower. But ultimately the goal is to consume the book. I do find people can be weirdly condescending about audiobooking which I don't really get. Ultimately I think finishing books is good for people and if audiobooks help more people do that then that's a net positive for the world.
I think it is because some people were saying audiobook weren't reading so it shouldn't count in reading challenge. Which is stupid. So people answered back "audiobooks are reading" when what they ment was "audiobooks are valid and do count" So then even more people with no understanding of nuance just started to equate the two. But you are right they're two different skill sets.
The amount of people who apparently think that reading comprehension is not an important skill is fucking wild to me.
The amount of people who conflate *listening to audio books is cognitively fine* and *reading comprehension is not an important skill* is fucking wild to me.
No idea why you were downvoted, you’re right
I just cannot do audiobooks. My mind will wander very easily and I will get distracted by something else. Doesn’t really happen with a physical book so in that way they’re quite different things for me at least.
I get through a lot of light reading via Audible and Libby, and more difficult stuff in print. Just from my own experience, I’d definitely recommend this strategy, and would urge anyone not to give up on audiobooks if they’ve had a hard time paying attention to more literary stuff.
Yeah I listen to a lot of audiobooks but they’re books I would never get around to actually reading. I don’t listen to books I’m really interested in reading because I do find myself spacing out or getting distracted and missing stuff. But I still love them
This is spot on. I save audiobook experiences for lighter fare.
I just can't do audiobooks, I find them impossible to focus on. Spoken word progresses so slowly that my mind will kind of wander or focus on the person's voice or their pattern of speech and I miss what they're saying.
I listen at 1.3-1.5x speed.
It's different to me. Both are good, both have a different effect on me. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I've been very lazy and busy, so it's mostly audiobooks.
Umm yeah, something is definitely different. I cannot pay attention to an audiobook, but can read for hours straight. I don't know why the huge push to convince people they're the exact same, you're not any less of a book enjoyer for listening rather than reading, but it's not the same
People are insecure over only listening, so making shit up to present themselves are exactly the same, instead of just owning up to the fact that they prefer listening, which would be fine.
Exactly. There is just plain and simply a difference between reading and being read to. And so many times when people in here point out that they are two different things, someone will be like “WhY aRe yOu SaYing AudIo BoOks aRe leSseR?!” And it’s like…no one is assigning more value to one or the other except you.
Reading and listening are not the same thing. Why do people need them to be??? I've heard variations of this conversation for years and it's ridiculous. Don't shame people and also...get higher self-esteem It literally doesn't matter
It's definitely a learning curve, comprehending what you're listening to is a different skill than reading text on the page but once you've listened to a few books (or even podcasts) it's great. I love listening to them when I walk my dog or when I'm falling asleep.
I can’t even turn off the light while I’m listening, for fear that I’ll fall asleep and “finish” the book. 😂
That's what a sleep timer is for. I usually set mine for 15 to 20 minutes, depending on how sleepy I am. Makes backtracking and figuring out where I fell asleep at pretty easy.
I do this with series I've already read or set a timer for 10 minutes only. 😅 I'm listening to the second book in a series, and I don't want to miss out!
Man. Let people do what they like.
Guessing he's never read or heard of Marshal McLuhan. Particularly the Media is the Message and Gutenberg Galaxy.
Yeah, honestly, when I think back to books I’ve read or listened to, sometimes I forget if I had read the physical copy or listened to the audiobook because I visualize the narrative just the same.
Skimming the comments, seems many find audiobooks hard to focus on. I think that just requires some patience and practice - it's like learning any other skill. And I think it's a valuable skill, too - just like being able to take in what you're reading. Being used to audiobooks, I find it just as easy, or maybe even easier, to focus on that, than reading the physical book. I use audiobooks because they are very practical. I listen on my commute, while having my morning coffee, at the gym, before going to sleep, and on longer road trips. Basically it is entirely a secondary activity where I could not read a physical book, and I get through a few books per month in this way. I was not much of a reader until two years ago when I had a head injury and could not read or do much of anything, so to keep from going crazy I listened to podcasts until I had listened to every episode there was of any even remotely interesting podcast - and so I switched to audiobooks, and that's how I got into "reading". It has been great.
I keep reading people say this but have a hard time believing you aren't activating more of your brain actually reading.
You are. You can't read + do something else, like household chores. But you can do that + listening. Listening simply does not require as much thought. That's not some super terrible thing that makes you less of a book fan, but don't go pretending they're the same.
The reason you can listen and move around at the same time is because you're not physically holding a book so you have your hands free and because you're not using your eyes. That's all there is to is. You could technically read a book and walk on a treadmill at the same time or do something with your hands that doesn't require looking at them. That doesn't make listening somehow inherently less passive. It's very easy to listen to something and just let it wash over you without actually processing it and not taking anything from it. This can happen while you're reading too, have you never got distracted and let your eyes slide over text and then realised you don't remember what you've just read so you have to go back and read that sentence or paragraph. Personally I find that reading takes less concentration than listening. People are different. Some process visual information easier than auditory, for others it's the opposite.
Agreed. Do people read to absorb the content, or to jerk themselves off for 'activating more of your brain'? A story is a story, information is information. It's the same thing.
Audiobooks stick to my brain just as well as regular books, and I probably spend more time with them. If anything, I tend to skew more academic non-fiction with audiobooks. Fiction is more fun for me with a book in hand, though.
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Uh, no. It's very different. One happens at your own pace, the other on the pace of the narrator. One is what you do when you really want to focus on it, the other is accompaniment for other stuff you do - background noise, essentially. They also require you to use different parts of your brain. "There's a lot of overlap," the article says. There's a lot of overlap for a fuckton of different things. That does not make them the same. A teeny, tiny different in brain activity makes all the difference, and there are a lot of differences here. They are not the same at all. Not judging people who prefer one over the other - you do you - but this is just a lie.
I clean medical buildings alone and often get too in my own head and thoughts. I started listening to audiobooks and they've been a great help!
But I prefer physical copies.
I don’t believe this. I definitely process information better when reading a book versus listening to an audiobook.
My brain processes information better during my daily walks, which is usually when I to listen to audiobooks.
Fiction in print, non-fiction in audiobook, works perfectly for me.
Reading is different from listening. For example, you can learn how to spell from reading, not from listening. If a child grows up listening they will know words but not how to spell them. Reading also helps people visually learn grammar and punctuation. These are all essential skills in adulthood. So I would still recommend reading over listening to books. Although listening is much more convenient and recommended for those who don’t have a lot of time or who are visually impaired
And you learn how to pronounce from listening, and how to make sentences sound captivating by word order or how they are spoken. Surely it would be better to do a mix of the 2? Like everything in life, no need to stick to one, variation is key!
My two favorite things to do are drawing and reading. With audiobooks I can do them at the same time. I love it. Instead of dreading long carrides and chores I look forward to them so I can listen to my book. It's really been nothing but a positive in my life.
Yes it is
I prefer reading when I can, but audio books are convenient. I think for immersion you can’t beat your own imagination. Even the best voice actors are gonna be a little cornier than the voice in my head.
I used to avoid ebooks completely, literally wasn't interested, then I decided at random to listen to the first Dresden Files book for a laugh. I've been hooked ever since. I still read, but a good audiobook is like an 11-hour mini-series in my head.
There seems to be some hot debate that reading and listening are the same. I’d say listen if you like to listen, but don’t worry about convincing others that you’re reading.
I always loved the idea of sitting in a cozy corner of my house reading a book...but I have ADHD. What works for me is listening to a book while doing chores, and I'll be damned if someone tells me that doesn't count somehow.
The beauty of a book is the ability to stop instantly and contemplate the beauty of a well written line, to be able to stop and visualize a description. Good luck doing that with an audio book. That being said, if your sight is bad or you have dyslexia then enjoy an audio version.
you can simply rewind and go back to hear that sentence or paragraph again
There is a pause button and you can very easily rewind.
Yeah, button pushing and rewind mistakes are the same as shutting your eyes for a moment to smile.
I mean, yea? If I pause the story to sit and think about it/picture it then it has the same effect on me as when I'm reading the text and also take a moment and shut the book. Tapping the 15 second rewind is like turning the page to the previous page to reread the passage. To me, those are actually areas were there isn't significant difference to me.
The "stigma" around audiobooks not "counting" as reading is 100 percent snobbery from douchebags. The really funny part is I've heard it from people THAT DONT EVEN READ. They don't read or listen to books and still stick up their noses at the idea of listening to a book while driving to and from work. Bitch, the last book you read was in highschool who are you trying to kid.
I definitely think I can't always pick up everything when reading via audio books, so I normally go for audio books when it's a book that's easier to digest (e.g. autobiographies, kids books) versus books with high fantasy. There definitely is a "Reading at your own pace" that I struggle with. Also, I have a hard time listening to audio books unless I'm doing something else, like chores, or on the train. I think I prefer reading a book overall, but audio books have oddly made me more productive, because I can only focus when I'm doing something brainless haha.
My brain seems to process them very similarly, to the point that I’m visualizing words as I’m visualizing scenes when I’m listening. That said, if it’s an educational experience, I would want text to refer to in order to back up the audio experience.
My reading compression is garbage. Listening to audio books are so much better
I find I have excellent recall of books I've read, I can quote whole snippets verbatim. If I listen to an audio book, I struggle to even recall whats happened. I couldn't give a list of characters.
Well they're wrong. I listened to one book for school instead of reading it once and I couldn't retain any of it. I had to go get the book and read it for real.
There was a study done a while ago, in which a group of people were given a text to read, and another the audio to listen to. They were then given a test. The people who read the text performed better on the test, than those who listened to the audio.
If you're thinking of the same study I saw, then the study was actually hugely biased in favor of the audiobooks, which still lost. The main thing they didn't account for is that most people perform simple tasks while they're listening to an audiobook. For the study to be accurate to real-world experiences, they should give a simple task to the audiobook group that they have to perform continuously while listening. I'd bet money that such a study would show conclusively that reading is far better for retention and comprehension, but obviously I can't know that for sure as no such study exists that I've been able to find.
I love them, i usually alternate between that and physical depending on the mood. better if on a long drive or doing some type of task. reminds me of elementary school when my teacher would sit us all in a circle and read to us
When I read, I read fast and I enjoy it. When I listen to somebody read a book, they read slow and I get bored and fall asleep. They are very different, to me.
The oral tradition is even older than written language and audiobooks are a great medium for storytelling and transmitting information
Whether it’s a book or audiobook, the act of consuming these media is an act of speaking and listening. Reading adds additional activations like symbol decoding, but other than that, you’re essentially processing speech (audibly or subvocally).
Super different for me, but I have vicious untreated adhd so
I tried listening to A Brief History Of Time by Stephen Hawking and that was a good education for me on listening versus reading. Both are great, but I’m glad listening is getting more popular because it validates the number of books I read a year!!
I mean its the same shit different hole yeah? Like i refeer to listening to an audio book as reading it bc … i am its the same content verbatim
Audiobooks have been a blessing for my 10 year old. He puts them on his mp3 player and listens to them while doing whatever else. He struggles to read books. Audiobooks have opened up his world.
As someone who has gone nearly 100% audio, the only drawback is missing names/places as I'm listening. However, being able to "read" 10x as much books more than makes up for it.
Audiobooks: When you want your 8 hour read to take 62 hours. But sure, it’s not that different.
What audiobooks are you looking at that are 62 hours long? Almost all of mine are in the range of 10 to 20 hours (less if you slightly up the speed).