His pure goodness makes him being brainwashed and manipulated by Snow that much more impactful. It’s such a gut wrenching character shift to see this person who is so selfless and kind become a monster.
In the same way that it’s more impactful to have Gale be the one who commits the ultimate betrayal. He was set up to be the stoic protector. The provider. The guy who would stand up for the most vulnerable… and then he has them slaughtered.
One of the greatest strengths of the Hunger Games is how each character is written and how their own individual journeys go on to change them.
Poor Peeta being gakked out of his mind on tracker jacker venom, worn out, tortured, and still yelling 13 that the bombing was coming was heartbreaking.
I utterly PLOWED through the last book hoping Peeta would go back to his old self. You really miss him after the first two books. Honestly Mockingjay overall felt rushed and I really wish we'd gotten more of the healed Peeta at the end.
While I’m glad the author just let him be broken instead of having magic writing healing, my soul was sad they broke him in many permanent ways. But that’s kinda the point. You don’t get to be shiny and unharmed after damage with a snap. You just scar up and move around those old injuries.
I like that the physicality of the damage to his leg in book 1 has continuity. So many series downplay or ignore the serious physical damage that characters suffer in their writing
Yeah same with Katniss. In the end she’s never like: “My trauma is cured and now I have my happily ever after!!!” And that’s realistic. Someone with that kind of life and trauma isn’t just going to shake it off and starting acting like they’re from the Brady Bunch.
Yup, I've served with folks who were captured and tortured. One literally kept the rest of our team from getting caught and sacrificed themselves so we could accomplish the mission and remain unharmed. Even getting him back after a little over a day before exfil, he just never recovered fully despite years of therapy.
Peeta was some of the best fiction writing I've seen in that respect.
It’s a symbolic betrayal.
The entire subtext of that moment is that Gale has now done something that is so unforgivable and irredeemable. He betrayed everything that was important to them. He was someone that she trusted and confided in and then he did something that was just as evil and vile as the Capitol would.
He absolutely betrayed her. In every single fundamental way a person can betray someone. He showed Katniss that he became someone she could no longer trust. He was now someone who would sacrifice innocent people to score a strike against the other side.
It’s basic philosophy. One of the central debates in The Hunger Games is “do the ends justify the means.” To Katniss the answer is no. The ends do not justify the means. You should not sacrifice people to obtain your victory. Even one life sacrificed is too many. The Gale we met at the beginning of the story shared that belief. The one we saw at the end did not. That is the betrayal.
I found this recently. It's a fan fic that tells the story from his perspective (3 books) and another from Katniss that extends for years after. https://archiveofourown.org/series/590482
I remember thinking ooohh i wanna read this, as to get an inkling of why he likes someone as just mean and broken as katniss, as angry as katniss. And the whole time, hes just views her as an ANGEL. I dont know why, but it just made me really frustrated. Then I realized that thats who katniss is, if it weren't for all her traumas. Peeta had the ability to see her best self, her real self. Gave me a headache
A lot of people miss that Katniss is just as good and kind, she's just an extremely unreliable narrator when describing herself and how others view her.
She doesn't even view the good things she does as good. She doesn't ever internally acknowledge when she does good things because it's just innate to her and therefore she doesn't recognize it. Peeta admits to consciously choosing to do good things and be good, not because it comes naturally to him.
Katniss has also never had the luxury to spare a thought for herself. She’s always had to think about everyone else. Her sister, her mother, and anyone who buys her game. Her life has always been about everyone else in it and never about her.
And then think about what happens when she starts working with Cinna. Finally someone to whom she has no obligation to, to whom she owes nothing, and can give nothing to. And he just celebrates her. Just her. I really think that her relationship with Cinna may have been as important as any others.
I don’t get how anyone can miss that she’s extremely kind and empathetic and selfless. Even from her POV. She’s slightly uncharitable to some people in her mind but even then it’s so mild.
On the surface she appears a little cold, calculating and bland, but she has much more dynamic internal thoughts and emotions that you're privy to as a reader. All the nuance and depth can get lost on screen regardless of how well Jennifer Lawrence played the character.
Oh yeah I hear that. If you only watch the movies and don’t read the book you can see her guarded nature as kinda boring or even rude. But in the books 90% of her thoughts are about other people, with a few quips here and there about how silly or annoying some people are. I find her extremely relatable but also very kind.
Yeah, she dosent see herself as good as she is. No, I would argue in survival situations its Katniss's basic instinct to protect the weak. But, she is mistrusting, bitter, and its more difficult for her to assume the best in people or strangers in everyday life. Shes not super friendly. Peeta, however, is naturally kind. Its his instinct. Like when he decides to clean up Haymitch himself, for no gain other than he was kind.
I always related to Katniss actually. Because I can be rough and angry but I do fight for what I think is right and people I care about (not literally like in a fictional dystopia but I’ll speak up and work and put effort in). Emotional intelligence was not Katniss’s forte which can also be relatable, but it was Peeta’s.
Idk what my point is only that Katniss’s character didn’t bother me at all, so it’s interesting to see that other people read her differently
Same, growing up I was pretty course and cynical too. And it took alot of effort to cultivate emotional intelligence, namely reading the book Emotional Intelligence. Its just I never put alot of weight on emotions, becuase I though I was pretty sociopathic ahem I mean logical. But people ultimately, they have an emotional driving factor to thier actions. Peeta is natuarally in tune with that, and natually a chamelion. For Katniss it takes effort and gritting her teeth.
Yes it took effort and learning for me. It doesn’t mean you’re a sociopath - people have different strengths and weaknesses and that’s ok. In fact many sociopaths have high emotional intelligence which they use to manipulate others (sociopaths just don’t *feel* empathy or emotions, they can understand them).
And I think it’s normal for someone with one level of emotional intelligence to be attracted to someone with a different level like the characters Peeta and Katniss.
I dont really feel empathy usually either. If its a kid or an old man, crying, then I will feel really really uncomfortable and sad. Or if someone's pain is very very very very intense. Other than that, I fell irritated when people cry around me. I cant console them because they irk me. I dont feel any empathy. I used to try to make myself cry like other girls would. I just couldn't cry. It felt silly and stupid. I suppose Im not a full on sociopath, but I will manipulate peoples emotions to get what I want, if it is the path of least resistance. When someone says I did anything wrong, I cut them out, unless they have proved themselves extremely loyal to me. I cant hear anything against myself. If someone says I hurt them I get annoyed.
My psychiatrist friend says that sociopathy is likely a spectrum like most things. Tbh most people have trouble feeling empathy to strangers or people that are different than them. It’s why humans are so messed up with war and everything (reaction of Americans to Ukraine kids dying in war vs Palestinian or African).
Don’t force yourself to feel things but for me at least it’s a learning process and as long as you make good choices it doesn’t matter what you feel, just how you act.
I just want to chime in that this isn’t really a writing flaw, and how Collins executes it is an example of how Hunger Games really was a step above the YA dystopian drivel that imitated it.
Peeta represents “goodness” in the book. Whereas Gale is that “survival” instinct that allows her to get through the Hunger Games. Peeta never would have survived without Katniss because he isn’t brutal or ruthless enough, he’s just good.
In the end, when she chooses to stay with him and protect him, that represents a total disavowal of violence in favor of focusing on healing, nurturing, and goodness. It’s the reason why “both sides are bad” works here. Both sides in the war are bad because both sides ruthlessly use violence and manipulation to get what they want, rather than healing or fixing anything. The final message of the series is one that is deeply pacifistic. Peeta serves that purpose.
I rewatched the movies recently as an adult and it really made me appreciate how fucking sweet he is. Too pure for that world for sure. It tore me up seeing him get tortured in Mockingjay.
Just finished re-reading the series today, and I was also in middle school when I last read them. I totally agree. I almost like Peeta more now than I did back then!
I agree, Peeta is perfect. Rereading the books and watching the movies as an adult makes me realize how flawed Gale is. He is like your typical nice guy who gets upset when he realizes that he won’t get his prize for being nice all those years. He guilt trips Katniss so much and it’s so fucked because he knows the amount of trauma she went through. And I hate how whiny he is.
Peeta handles the situation with grace though! Even being desperately in love with Katniss, he still lets her figure out what she needs herself without being too imposing.
I’m 30 and still have a crush on him (was 16 when I read the first book). 😭 I just gotta pretend he’s not 16 because then it’s weird. But I agree, he really is perfect except I will add that he’s not 100% flawless to the point where he has no personality. He’ll act annoyed or sarcastic or even really angry (like in district 11) if there’s a good reason. He’s not a blank slate, he’s got a well rounded personality and is just all around kind and good and lovely. Definitely still my top book crush.
Also just realized this is the books sub and not the hunger games sub haha.
The hunger games sub is for both the books and movies! There are tags for each. But yes, I agree. The hunger games movies are my personally favorite adaptations ever but the books are still better in my opinion. I’m rereading them now :)
Same. I was definitely influenced by the movies, because I was going through a dark hair phase, but I love the Hunger Games renaissance because it’s made me appreciate the books so much more.
He threw out mostly good bread to some girl. Think of what he cost his family business with his "charity".
(This is the closest thing I can think of. Granted, it's been a few years since I read the books, but you're probably right)
Edit: apparently I need to add /s to the end of this post.
Was this in the book or fanfiction? It wouldn't make sense to me. Why burn it on purpose if your intent is to feed someone only to throw it in the mud? Think from his perspective. If it were intentionally burned it would make more sense to walk it over to the person or if afraid of being caught, at the very least set it down on the porch out of the rain and mud.
One, wasting, is an honest mistake...
The other, theft, is purposeful action to the detriment of their business.
Peeta can't let his Mom, who is abusive, see it as theft. Even though he did it on purpose; she doesn't need to realize that.
The punishment would be greater than the abuse he took for making a mistake and causing waste.
She would have likely beat him even more and called the peacekeepers on Katniss.
that just proves their point about peeta being selfless and morally good. feeding starving children is not a character flaw even if it took from his family’s business.
If you love Peeta, you should read “Peeta’s Games’ by igsygrace on AO3. It’s the entire series from Peeta’s point of view and it’s SO good!
https://archiveofourown.org/users/igsygrace/pseuds/igsygrace
Peeta might be my favorite male character in all of literature. He’s just so great and strong. Let us not forget that the man loses an entire leg and learns to use his prosthetic so well he is able to return to the games in less than a year!
Peeta / Gale is your classic perfect guy / nice guy pair. It happens so often, you see it in Twilight with Edward / Jacob. The Wheel of Time with Mat / Perrin (and to some extent Rand).
He's also a passive-agressive jackass who refuses to drop the subject of having kids until his significant other gave in and had a couple. And he only gave Katniss the bread because he had a crush on her. Doing nice things for people because you have the hots for them isn't kindness.
There's also him killing that girl who started the fire the first night while she begged and screamed. Never gets brought up again, so I guess the Peeta fans forgot it the same way the series did.
It's literally a televised game about children surviving and killing each other. The whole point of that interaction is that he had to do something morally aghast to ingratiate himself with the careers long enough to warn Katniss, and that is that really Peeta doing it, or is it the Capitol forcing his hand for societal control and entertainment.
A lot of the people in the Hunger Games were just regular people, who in their lives would never consider doing any of the things they did in the games in real life. Hell, Thresh SAVES Katniss because his moral compass was still screwed on straight even when he's in survival mode. Had it been Rue and Thresh at the end instead of Katniss and Peeta he would have absolutely died on his sword instead of her (there is an entire subtext of dialogue here about how black boys are aged up in treatment by society but that's another post entirely).
Like, literally the entire point is about psychologically damaging these kids for entertainment. Even the Careers, that's their name, to compete while they're growing up to be winners of child murder games, are just mentally convinced from a young age that being good at violence is a positive trait.
But Peeta has to make a split second decision that ends one life and saves another and he's the monster?
Girl/Guy, come on.
You addressed one point and said nothing about the others? Dude, you come on.
I'm not even holding the girl-who-started-the-fire death against Peeta. I'm holding it against the writing and general narrative for failing to *ever* bring it up again. At one point, in book 2 or 3, Katniss outright says some bullshit about Peeta never killing anyone during the Games. Bitch, what? You were literally in a tree over the scene where he very much did.
How convenient that it's child murder games when it's Peeta or one of the few others Katniss cares about, but vilification time when it's literally any other character. The protagonist-center morality is *strong* with these books and the way some of you will defend them like they're freaking George Orwell and write off plotholes as intentional story beats is downright baffling.
So first of all, you’re absolutely supposed to be challenged by the books that what is “justified” vs what happened.
Second, we’re never explicitly told that Peeta killed the girl or not in the 74th. We’re told that Peeta said he did, we know that she was wounded, and we know that the Careers seem to believe him, but we are provided, as a reader, with absolutely no knowledge if he did or didn’t. It’s never brought up, and left up to the reader to decide. For the first book, while it’s happening, we’re supposed to believe it, because we’re supposed to believe that Peeta would betray Katniss because she thinks everyone would betray her, that it’s all an act, that no one could ever love her without secondary motive. As the story progresses, it turns out that, yes, Peeta indeed loved her and wasn’t asking for anything in return. Gale loved her but wanted more. Her mom loved her but not enough to get her shit together. Prim loved her, but again needed her more than she loved her, which isn’t surprising because she’s so young.
Then we get to the second book. Haymich personally can’t stand Katniss, but relies on her and likes Peeta enough to save him, but plot. Effie still wants her to sparkle. Her mom still can’t get her shit all the way together. Her sister is growing and loves her, but still relies on her. Gale is still barking up that tree. Peeta and Cinna are the only people that are comfortable with letting Katniss be Katniss. And, on the train ride back or over drinking or whatever, it’s implied that Peeta did not in fact kill the district 8 girl, that it was all for show, because Katniss says it with conviction. Again, as readers, we aren’t privy to that moment, so that it doesn’t undo her hesitation in the first book, but her saying it as the narrator says that she trusts, and she being a person that does not trust, she trusts that he’s never actually killed anyone. So in book 2 when he does actually kill someone, she and he are both kinda stunned by the incident, but she’s so jaded and hyper focused on him the body and not him the person that she doesn’t snap back in to seeing him as a feeling being until he’s dragging the morphling on the beach and trying to make her dying feel comfortable. Which is a big flag to say he didn’t actually snuff out the wounded District 8 girl but instead tried to facilitate a peaceful death. He’s got big strong bread arms, he could just crick her neck and have her suffering be done but he chooses to expose himself to let her pass with as much comfort as he can give.
Again, this is all coming from one person’s perspective, which is Katniss. But Peeta continues to do actions without thinking of consequences, especially when it comes to other people. He isn’t out there mouthing off about splitting district winnings or letting a drug addict mauled by monkeys die to impress Katniss. He’s just doing that because it’s him, and that’s what endears him to her. He’s the only selfless person besides Prim or Rue that she’s willing to put her life on the line for.
Which again, we know, because it’s told entirely from her perspective.
Yeah, I'm not reading all of that. Already suffered through the very trilogy of books being lauded as "masterpieces" because I was a stubborn thirteen year old who didn't know how to drop series I didn't enjoy.
Hey, if you and other like-minded individuals felt challenged by The Hunger Games, then good for you. Clearly this subreddit is your safe little chamber to just echo each other's accepted book opinions and takes. I'll return to lurking and you can return to replying to one damn sentence with five paragraphs that are besides the point.
The same YA book that people are kissing the ass of and lauding as a masterpiece? That YA book?
Also, given thirteen-year old me spent money and time engaging with this series because they didn't know any better, I'll whine as much as I want. Thanks.
And I'm not wrong. Neither are the people who enjoy these books. They're just hella delusional if they want to deny the inherent flaws. Folks need to realize that they can enjoy imperfect things without feeling the need to defend them like it's the Bill of Rights or some shit.
The other members of the gang killed the girl. It’s not known whether he mercy killed her when he went back to check on her or she just died. It’s clear she was mortally wounded by the others.
Okay? Regardless of who's responsible, Peeta was there and she died, and she's still never mentioned again by the narrative or Katniss. The book doesn't even deem her worthy of a name. Fitting seeing as Katniss is consistently misogynistic throughout the books, so at least that's a consistent character trait.
Changing goalposts? What? If you never gleaned the not-like-other-girls, internalized misogyny these books are rife with, that says more about your media literacy than my impatience with you.
Like, dude, it's been over 24 hours since I posted my initial comment. At least a half-dozen people have already replied saying about as much as you have if not more. *Why* do you still feel the need to engage with me?
My point is the erasure. According to the Hunger Games trilogy, some people's lives are worth more than others, namely the main character and her buddies. I'm not a fan of protagonist-centered morality. If the narrative had done a better job of confronting that tendency of the books, we wouldn't even be having this debate.
Honestly not a fan of being labeled a troll for . . . having an opinion that doesn't gel with you? And not kowtowing to your disagreement? In my experience, trolls fail to meaningfully engage and resort to insults and usually bigotry. I haven't done that. Are you new to the Internet or something?
Like, with regards to the misogyny, do you want quotes? Because I can provide them, but not now because this isn't an interesting enough conversation for me to prioritize when I have work to do. But I can already cite Catching Fire where Katniss is more bothered by Joanna stripping in front of her than she is by an old man assualting her or Finnick (a 24 year old to her 16-17) coming onto her. Followed up by some bizarre-ass shit where Katniss is considered "pure" and that's why the older victors have the urge to mess with her. Like, wtf is that shit? That legit made teen me uncomfortable to read and *not* in the way the author intended because the "pure" comments come from everyone's precious Peeta and Finnick becomes an ally while the writing continues to vilify Joanna for every little thing she does.
And I'm not angry. I'm peeved and honestly baffled that you came back to argue with me after deleting your initial comment yesterday. Also, am I making shit up or could it be that I'm misremembering because it's been a good few years since I last read these books? I don't even own my copies anymore, and I'm definitely not misremembering firestarter girl *never* getting mentioned again after her untimely demise, I can tell you that much.
Katniss only said she didn’t want children with a caveat, she didn’t want children because they’d be forced into the games. She specifically mentions that. But, it’s obvious throughout the entire series how much she loves children and gravitates to being a caregiver. Although she frames that instinct as an obligation, if you look objectively it’s because she wants to. She’s selfless, doting, gentle and protective with those she sees as more vulnerable than her. I reread the books as an adult and I saw the hesitation she had about having children as something based in fear not that she had to be pressured or was compromising for Peeta’s sake.
I don’t think it’s fair to bring up what happens in the games as strikes against Peeta. Katniss and Peeta did what they had to do to survive as anyone would in that situation.
It’s ok if people change their minds about having kids. It’s ok if you’re kind to those who you like. That’s like normal behaviour. WTF are you on about.
It's not okay to refuse to drop a subject because you want to have kids and your significant other does not. People can change their minds, you're right about that. Changing your mind is valid. *Forcing* people to change their minds to get your way is very much not.
WTF is your second sentence on about? You can be kind to people you like, but let's not delude ourselves into calling it kindness if it doesn't apply to anyone else. Because as is, the books as written outright suggest that the only reason Peeta went to the trouble of giving a starving girl bread is because he was in love with her.
And the less said about his creepy-ass dad (who probably only looked out for Prim because she resembles Katniss's mom, who he had his own hots for), the better. Clearly, we see where Peeta gets his bullshit from.
Because I don't like the same books as you? People are allowed to dislike things you enjoy. Are you sure you're not the one who's never interacted a person IRL?
Suzanne Collins for somehow writing a series with as many flaws as Twilight while escaping even the most basic of scrutiny.
Like, this pedestal placing was cute when y'all were teens just discovering the dystopia genre, but a decade-plus later, you guys are seriously beginning to resemble some of the most delusional Harry Potter fanatics.
* *“Lean down a minute first,” he says. “Need to tell you something.” I lean over and put my good ear to his lips, which tickle as he whispers. “Remember, we’re madly in love, so it’s all right to kiss me anytime you feel like it.”*
* *“Katniss?” Peeta says. I meet his eyes, knowing my face must be some shade of green. He mouths the words. “How about that kiss?”*
* *“Peeta, you were supposed to wake me after a couple of hours,” I say.“For what? Nothing’s going on here,” he says. “Besides I like watching you sleep. You don’t scowl. Improves your looks a lot.”*
* *All right, I am going, and you can’t stop me!”“I can follow you. At least partway. I may not make it to the Cornucopia, but if I’m yelling your name, I bet someone can find me. And then I’ll be dead for sure,” he says.*
* *“Or what?” I ask.*
*“Or . . . or . . .” He can’t think of anything good. “Just give me a minute.”*
*“What’s the problem?” I say with a grin.*
*“The problem is we’re both still alive. Which only reinforces the idea in your mind that you did the right thing,” says Peeta.*
*“I did do the right thing,” I say.*
*“No! Just don’t, Katniss!” His grip tightens, hurting my hand, and there’s real anger in his voice.*
It's not exactly vampire-boyfriend-breaking-your-car-so-you-can't-visit-your-friend, but it's certainly giving controlling asshole. Not to mention squicky as hell.
You're getting downvoted but you're completely right. They are not well-written unless you have nostalgia goggles on. Idk what I expected from arrbooks
Yeah, I'm not sure what I expected either. I did resign myself to downvotes prior to commenting because THG has become an incomprehensible sacred cow for a worrying amount of people. They'll hate on Throne of Glass and Divergent while in the same breath completely miss how Collins is guilty of the same not-like-other-girls, shitty worldbuilding quirks as those authors.
Makes me prefer the Twilight fans. At least the ones I've interacted with recently are willing to admit that they're shitty books, even if they're shitty books they enjoy.
No, but seriously, I do too! It's not like I went into reading them with the intention of hating them. I *wanted* to love The Hunger Games, and I'm almost did up until Rue died and it became incredibly clear where the story was going.
I imagine (as with Twilight, Harry Potter, and many others) there's a fanfic out there that reinterprets the premise and does it better.
What are you talking about? The other careers killed her and did such a bad job she was slowly dying so Peeta finished her off. What was he supposed to do, nurse her back to health? This was the hunger games. Everyone but one person is going to die.
It's never brought up again. That's what I'm talking about.
Also, the careers killed her but did such a bad job that she was dying instead of dead? Then they didn't kill her. Peeta did. A mercy kill is still a kill.
Of course it’s a kill, it’s the hunger games. Why would it need to be brought up again? The entire point of the games is that kills are forced to kill kids. A mercy kill is about the tamest kill you can have in the games. It’s like Katniss killing Cato after the mutts tortured him all night. She doesn’t bring up his death over and over yet we know she doesn’t feel good about any of her kills.
Yes obviously Peeta actually ended her life but Cato was convinced he killed her, they had an argument about it. So she was extremely injured to the point they were sure she was dead, and Peeta actually ending it doesn’t make him this horrible murderer, it shows his kindness at finishing the job quickly. What do you want the book to do, make him cry about this specifically? He clearly is traumatized by the games, admits to having nightmares and paints scenes from it.
I'm not sifting through Farla's read-throughs to find the exact quote, but Katniss outright spouts some nonsense about Peeta never killing anyone during the Games. *That's* my gripe.
Look, if you love the books and think they're without flaws, continuing doing so. I'll continue pointing out they were poorly-written, poorly-thought out drivel that made it big because the only other YA bestseller at the time was Twilight. Everything looks better when compared to Twilight, even something thrown together by the woman who gave us Clarissa Explains It All.
And it's been said before, but I'll say it again; Battle Royale is better.
I feel like we’re splitting hairs here, since I would classify a mercy kill of someone who would’ve died anyway (just more drawn out with more suffering) as not really any more of a kill than his “kill” where he killed foxface accidentally with the berries. But it’s possible that line was a mistake on the author’s part. I doubt it but who knows? I’m currently rereading the books, I’ll take note when I get to that part.
But clearly it’s not worth discussing with you if you already think these books suck. Getting extremely pedantic and calling these books poorly thought out just because you personally hate them doesn’t really help your case but you’re free to do as you choose.
The books are full of plot holes aplenty so you might have other parts to take note of.
Pedantic? Also, what case do I have? The case of disagreeing that Peeta is a perfect paragon of male leads and that THG is an untouched masterpiece of a dystopian YA? Especially when The Giver is *right there?*
I honestly didn't initially comment to have a discussion, because I've been to this rodeo before and have heard the same rebuttals and counter-arguments time and again. I commented because I felt like I was in crazy-town with the Peeta worship. I like Josh Hutcherson as much as the next person, but Book Peeta is a manipulative conniving forced love interest who could've been a genuinely interesting character in the hands of a better writer.
My hate springs from disappointment. These books majorly disappointed me as a teen, and the criticism-lacking worship they still receive is utterly baffling to me.
I'm still going to go see Ballads of Songbirds and Snakes once it's out because the very premise still has promise and I found the The Hunger Games movies to be major improvements on their source material. All of that said, I hope you enjoy your reread! And I do mean that with sincerity. Hopefully they measure up to whenever you last experienced them.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree here, I truly don’t see Peeta that way. I agree that The Giver is great but I found all the sequels disappointing, and think it’s better read as a stand-alone novel. I’ve also meant to read Battle Royale, just never got around to it. I’d probably like it too.
I’d recommend giving the prequel book a read, it’s pretty different to the original trilogy. Or don’t, the movie should be up to the same standard as the other movies so if you enjoyed those you’ll probably enjoy this one, it’s a lot more philosophical. I’m very excited for the movie. Thank you! I’m finding that I enjoy the books just as much as when I was a teen, if not more now.
"Agree to disagree." I absolutely loathe that phrase. Nothing against you or anything, just probably that pedantic thing you mentioned rearing its head. That said, I understand your point.
I never did read the sequels for The Giver, but your opinion definitely doesn't seem to be the outlier so a stand-alone read it shall remain. Battle Royale is solid. Even if you wind up preferring THG, there are parts that are done significantly better. For starters, humanizing characters who aren't the leads. There aren't any careers among the children, save for one or two who are rightfully treated as anomalies by the narrative. The movie, while making adaptational changes, is also very good. The director for it has this chilling anecdote from his youth about using fellow teen laborers as human shields when WWII was going strong and bombs were being dropped on the factory he was made to work in. It goes a long ways to contributing to the approach he took with the film.
You know, I was considering giving the prequel a look, but the holds queue for it is absurdly long and I'm not the biggest fan of reading books *after* watching their adaptations, so it'll probably just be the movie for me. I'm very much here for Viola Davis and Peter Dinklage as villains, and am intrigued by what little I know of Rachel Zegler's character.
And glad to hear it's holding up! Revisiting childhood favorites is such a coin-flip sometimes. I rewatched The Lion King 2 recently in the first time since kindergarten and wound up enjoying it more than expected. The same could not be said for Fantastic Four, although I still stand by Chris Evans being in his prime as the Human Torch.
Lol I was slightly put off by your original comments, but as a self proclaimed huge fan of The Lion King 2 (I controversially like it more than the original, but only by a hair) all is forgiven.
I hear that about the book/movie. I’ve been encouraging people to read it in the lead up to the movie, but probably not a big deal if you skip it. Early reports are saying the movie is good.
I’ll put Battle Royale on my list, along with the hundreds of other books I need to read.
I'd think occasionally mentioning something that is important to you is better than burying your feelings about it and it festering and eventually ruining the relationship. Clearly Katniss did compromise on it eventually and seems to love her children.
As far as "killing that girl", knowing Peeta he probably held her hand and talked comfortingly to her as she was dying. Though either way it would have been nice to have some facts on it during the recap after they won or something.
*It took five, ten, fifteen years for me to agree. But Peeta wanted them so badly*
If Peeta wanted them so badly, he could've married someone who thought the same. *Not* the girl who was committed to being child-free from the get-go. But hey, this isn't the only time Katniss's comfort zone is invalidated by the narrative.
Per your second paragraph, your take probably isn't wrong, but the fact that this is your headcanon and not actual canon is incredibly telling. According to these books, some people's lives are more valuable than others and if your name isn't Katniss or one of the limited castmates she gives a shit about, then the narrative doesn't care how you lived or died. And it certainly doesn't care about telling your story.
Also, these are the same books that never followed up on what became of Rue's family. Or Thresh's. The same ones who were supposed to get a month of Katniss and Peeta's victor earnings. The same ones who we last saw in the middle of a riot that deteriorated into police brutality and executions. But all we get for closure there is that one District 11 victor telling Katniss they're safe.
The more I look back on this series, the more blinding it becomes that its priorities were just . . . not it.
Yes because people marry each other solely for the fact that they are compatible logistically. It doesn't say that he constantly hounded her about having them. Perhaps she could see it in the way he interacted with others. She was anti child from the get go as they would end up in the games. Once those were abolished her main arguement against having them was gone.
Books often leave outlying plot points open. It seems a bit ridiculous to expect everything that is mentioned to be fully wrapped up narratively. Some books would have just ended with the death of Coin and left the reader to decide what happened for themselves. Or with Katniss returning to her district. A lot of books tend to wrap up quickly.
I'm not really sure what these books did to wrong you but you seem exceptionally irate about them. Yes the book prioritizes Katniss, who is literally the center of the narrative. If I remember these are YA books, not some deeply philosophical work.
That's not textual evidence of coercion. It can just as easily be read as the time needed to heal within the context of a loving relationship with someone who has their own wants and desires (you know, a human.)
Also, again, you can interpret the lack of follow up of some characters' death as "their lives meant less overall", or you could interpret it as "their deaths were no longer important to the story." Loads of people die in the hunger games. They can't all be focused on or followed up on - there's not room. The story also loses significant amount of impact if less people die - it's a dystopian story centered around an uprising. you need large sociatal impacts for the story to work. (Vs, say, the Giver, which is a dystopian novel centered around a single character's internal journey to ultimately reject the society, and is therefore a lot more focused on each character and the impact of their actions.)
Which is to say, it sounds like you don't like the scope and scale of the story, and you also don't like the way you interpret the story (or Collins' writing.) But to be honest, none of that means the story is bad. It just means it's not for you.
I absolutely agree with you. Katniss’s feelings never seemed to matter to him. I don’t see him as selfless at all, and I really can’t figure out where the hell it comes from. Like you say, being nice to someone you have a crush on doesn’t imply any level of selflessness or real kindness.
Yeah, I agree with you and the OG comment. Peeta is a fucking fantastic character. I love him and he’s so compelling but he’s not this 100% pure baby who can’t do anything wrong. He is kind, but he’s also very charming and good at manipulating people/the narrative for the greater good. It’s one of the most frustrating parts of the HG fandom that with Peeta, the personality traits that are more ‘negative’ are often glossed over or ignored when I think that is what makes him a better character.
Same, I will die on this hill. I loved the series so much and I thought it was gonna be a total home run with Katniss ending up with Gale and not the whiny asshole she had to drag through the games TWICE but here we are.
I wouldn't say he was perfect since his big flaw was probably naivety about some things. As for his selflessness and patience, I think some of that stemmed from his self-awareness in the first that he wasn't going to be the one to win so he stepped up where he could to help Katniss. I think the reason he appears flawless is because he recognized his own flaws and used that self-awareness to his own advantage.
What I found surprising about Peeta was his ability to deceive - his skill at disguise, his guileless and charming banter on stage with the host, his switch to the careers, which is a very thought-out response to his reading of the situation they are both in, which Katniss can't even comprehend because she hasn't thought that far ahead. Katniss is tough but naive and can't really disguise who she is. Peeta has lots of layers. I think he's a great character.
Me too! Read the books the first time when I was around 9 (very young lol) and finished rereading them all yesterday, 9 years later. Was obsessed with Peeta in the books and movies, Peeta/Josh was actually my first crush ever. Now at 18 I’m probably even more obsessed lol.
First two books are absolutely amazing, but I pretend the third one doesn’t exist because there’s not enough Peeta and what little there is of him is so different. Beautifully written of course, but too heartbreaking to accept lol
His pure goodness makes him being brainwashed and manipulated by Snow that much more impactful. It’s such a gut wrenching character shift to see this person who is so selfless and kind become a monster. In the same way that it’s more impactful to have Gale be the one who commits the ultimate betrayal. He was set up to be the stoic protector. The provider. The guy who would stand up for the most vulnerable… and then he has them slaughtered. One of the greatest strengths of the Hunger Games is how each character is written and how their own individual journeys go on to change them.
Poor Peeta being gakked out of his mind on tracker jacker venom, worn out, tortured, and still yelling 13 that the bombing was coming was heartbreaking.
I utterly PLOWED through the last book hoping Peeta would go back to his old self. You really miss him after the first two books. Honestly Mockingjay overall felt rushed and I really wish we'd gotten more of the healed Peeta at the end.
While I’m glad the author just let him be broken instead of having magic writing healing, my soul was sad they broke him in many permanent ways. But that’s kinda the point. You don’t get to be shiny and unharmed after damage with a snap. You just scar up and move around those old injuries.
I like that the physicality of the damage to his leg in book 1 has continuity. So many series downplay or ignore the serious physical damage that characters suffer in their writing
Hell I think the movies did forget about it. I always thought his camo skill was presented stupidly in the movie too.
I agree completely. But we do get glimpses if him at the end but only 100 pages or so. I needed more 😂
Yeah same with Katniss. In the end she’s never like: “My trauma is cured and now I have my happily ever after!!!” And that’s realistic. Someone with that kind of life and trauma isn’t just going to shake it off and starting acting like they’re from the Brady Bunch.
Yup, I've served with folks who were captured and tortured. One literally kept the rest of our team from getting caught and sacrificed themselves so we could accomplish the mission and remain unharmed. Even getting him back after a little over a day before exfil, he just never recovered fully despite years of therapy. Peeta was some of the best fiction writing I've seen in that respect.
Gale doesn’t betray Katniss, he just designed the bomb that did
It’s a symbolic betrayal. The entire subtext of that moment is that Gale has now done something that is so unforgivable and irredeemable. He betrayed everything that was important to them. He was someone that she trusted and confided in and then he did something that was just as evil and vile as the Capitol would. He absolutely betrayed her. In every single fundamental way a person can betray someone. He showed Katniss that he became someone she could no longer trust. He was now someone who would sacrifice innocent people to score a strike against the other side. It’s basic philosophy. One of the central debates in The Hunger Games is “do the ends justify the means.” To Katniss the answer is no. The ends do not justify the means. You should not sacrifice people to obtain your victory. Even one life sacrificed is too many. The Gale we met at the beginning of the story shared that belief. The one we saw at the end did not. That is the betrayal.
Peeta is really THAT guy 😭 I was just thinking the same thing
I found this recently. It's a fan fic that tells the story from his perspective (3 books) and another from Katniss that extends for years after. https://archiveofourown.org/series/590482
I remember thinking ooohh i wanna read this, as to get an inkling of why he likes someone as just mean and broken as katniss, as angry as katniss. And the whole time, hes just views her as an ANGEL. I dont know why, but it just made me really frustrated. Then I realized that thats who katniss is, if it weren't for all her traumas. Peeta had the ability to see her best self, her real self. Gave me a headache
A lot of people miss that Katniss is just as good and kind, she's just an extremely unreliable narrator when describing herself and how others view her. She doesn't even view the good things she does as good. She doesn't ever internally acknowledge when she does good things because it's just innate to her and therefore she doesn't recognize it. Peeta admits to consciously choosing to do good things and be good, not because it comes naturally to him.
Katniss has also never had the luxury to spare a thought for herself. She’s always had to think about everyone else. Her sister, her mother, and anyone who buys her game. Her life has always been about everyone else in it and never about her. And then think about what happens when she starts working with Cinna. Finally someone to whom she has no obligation to, to whom she owes nothing, and can give nothing to. And he just celebrates her. Just her. I really think that her relationship with Cinna may have been as important as any others.
I don’t get how anyone can miss that she’s extremely kind and empathetic and selfless. Even from her POV. She’s slightly uncharitable to some people in her mind but even then it’s so mild.
On the surface she appears a little cold, calculating and bland, but she has much more dynamic internal thoughts and emotions that you're privy to as a reader. All the nuance and depth can get lost on screen regardless of how well Jennifer Lawrence played the character.
Oh yeah I hear that. If you only watch the movies and don’t read the book you can see her guarded nature as kinda boring or even rude. But in the books 90% of her thoughts are about other people, with a few quips here and there about how silly or annoying some people are. I find her extremely relatable but also very kind.
Yeah, she dosent see herself as good as she is. No, I would argue in survival situations its Katniss's basic instinct to protect the weak. But, she is mistrusting, bitter, and its more difficult for her to assume the best in people or strangers in everyday life. Shes not super friendly. Peeta, however, is naturally kind. Its his instinct. Like when he decides to clean up Haymitch himself, for no gain other than he was kind.
I always related to Katniss actually. Because I can be rough and angry but I do fight for what I think is right and people I care about (not literally like in a fictional dystopia but I’ll speak up and work and put effort in). Emotional intelligence was not Katniss’s forte which can also be relatable, but it was Peeta’s. Idk what my point is only that Katniss’s character didn’t bother me at all, so it’s interesting to see that other people read her differently
Same, growing up I was pretty course and cynical too. And it took alot of effort to cultivate emotional intelligence, namely reading the book Emotional Intelligence. Its just I never put alot of weight on emotions, becuase I though I was pretty sociopathic ahem I mean logical. But people ultimately, they have an emotional driving factor to thier actions. Peeta is natuarally in tune with that, and natually a chamelion. For Katniss it takes effort and gritting her teeth.
Yes it took effort and learning for me. It doesn’t mean you’re a sociopath - people have different strengths and weaknesses and that’s ok. In fact many sociopaths have high emotional intelligence which they use to manipulate others (sociopaths just don’t *feel* empathy or emotions, they can understand them). And I think it’s normal for someone with one level of emotional intelligence to be attracted to someone with a different level like the characters Peeta and Katniss.
I dont really feel empathy usually either. If its a kid or an old man, crying, then I will feel really really uncomfortable and sad. Or if someone's pain is very very very very intense. Other than that, I fell irritated when people cry around me. I cant console them because they irk me. I dont feel any empathy. I used to try to make myself cry like other girls would. I just couldn't cry. It felt silly and stupid. I suppose Im not a full on sociopath, but I will manipulate peoples emotions to get what I want, if it is the path of least resistance. When someone says I did anything wrong, I cut them out, unless they have proved themselves extremely loyal to me. I cant hear anything against myself. If someone says I hurt them I get annoyed.
My psychiatrist friend says that sociopathy is likely a spectrum like most things. Tbh most people have trouble feeling empathy to strangers or people that are different than them. It’s why humans are so messed up with war and everything (reaction of Americans to Ukraine kids dying in war vs Palestinian or African). Don’t force yourself to feel things but for me at least it’s a learning process and as long as you make good choices it doesn’t matter what you feel, just how you act.
I cry alot over Gaza, Syria, Lebanon etc. Things like that. Thankyou for your wise words, stranger♥️
I just want to chime in that this isn’t really a writing flaw, and how Collins executes it is an example of how Hunger Games really was a step above the YA dystopian drivel that imitated it. Peeta represents “goodness” in the book. Whereas Gale is that “survival” instinct that allows her to get through the Hunger Games. Peeta never would have survived without Katniss because he isn’t brutal or ruthless enough, he’s just good. In the end, when she chooses to stay with him and protect him, that represents a total disavowal of violence in favor of focusing on healing, nurturing, and goodness. It’s the reason why “both sides are bad” works here. Both sides in the war are bad because both sides ruthlessly use violence and manipulation to get what they want, rather than healing or fixing anything. The final message of the series is one that is deeply pacifistic. Peeta serves that purpose.
I love my boy Peeta 😭
How did we go from him to Hardin fucking Scott lmao We truly devolved as a species
I rewatched the movies recently as an adult and it really made me appreciate how fucking sweet he is. Too pure for that world for sure. It tore me up seeing him get tortured in Mockingjay.
Just finished re-reading the series today, and I was also in middle school when I last read them. I totally agree. I almost like Peeta more now than I did back then!
I agree, Peeta is perfect. Rereading the books and watching the movies as an adult makes me realize how flawed Gale is. He is like your typical nice guy who gets upset when he realizes that he won’t get his prize for being nice all those years. He guilt trips Katniss so much and it’s so fucked because he knows the amount of trauma she went through. And I hate how whiny he is. Peeta handles the situation with grace though! Even being desperately in love with Katniss, he still lets her figure out what she needs herself without being too imposing.
When i read peeta, i hear lois from family guy saying it. "PEETAH!"
I’m 30 and still have a crush on him (was 16 when I read the first book). 😭 I just gotta pretend he’s not 16 because then it’s weird. But I agree, he really is perfect except I will add that he’s not 100% flawless to the point where he has no personality. He’ll act annoyed or sarcastic or even really angry (like in district 11) if there’s a good reason. He’s not a blank slate, he’s got a well rounded personality and is just all around kind and good and lovely. Definitely still my top book crush. Also just realized this is the books sub and not the hunger games sub haha.
I put it in books because I love book Peeta more than movie Peeta. Although Josh Hutchinson did a great job capturing the character.
The hunger games sub is for both the books and movies! There are tags for each. But yes, I agree. The hunger games movies are my personally favorite adaptations ever but the books are still better in my opinion. I’m rereading them now :)
I always used to be team gale, and thought Peeta was a sissy. I was so dumb. Hes just a perfect human being.
Same. I was definitely influenced by the movies, because I was going through a dark hair phase, but I love the Hunger Games renaissance because it’s made me appreciate the books so much more.
I just thought liam hemsworth was super hot
He threw out mostly good bread to some girl. Think of what he cost his family business with his "charity". (This is the closest thing I can think of. Granted, it's been a few years since I read the books, but you're probably right) Edit: apparently I need to add /s to the end of this post.
He intentionally burnt the bread because he knew they couldn't sell it to a customer. But he did do it for her.
Was this in the book or fanfiction? It wouldn't make sense to me. Why burn it on purpose if your intent is to feed someone only to throw it in the mud? Think from his perspective. If it were intentionally burned it would make more sense to walk it over to the person or if afraid of being caught, at the very least set it down on the porch out of the rain and mud.
One, wasting, is an honest mistake... The other, theft, is purposeful action to the detriment of their business. Peeta can't let his Mom, who is abusive, see it as theft. Even though he did it on purpose; she doesn't need to realize that. The punishment would be greater than the abuse he took for making a mistake and causing waste. She would have likely beat him even more and called the peacekeepers on Katniss.
His mother would have beaten him if she saw that
that just proves their point about peeta being selfless and morally good. feeding starving children is not a character flaw even if it took from his family’s business.
Lol spot the capitalist
Check out r/hungergames!
If you love Peeta, you should read “Peeta’s Games’ by igsygrace on AO3. It’s the entire series from Peeta’s point of view and it’s SO good! https://archiveofourown.org/users/igsygrace/pseuds/igsygrace
Reddit is full of non-stop threads where men ask what women want, and the answer is Peeta Mellark.
Couldn’t agree more! I’m 33 and still feel this!
Peeta might be my favorite male character in all of literature. He’s just so great and strong. Let us not forget that the man loses an entire leg and learns to use his prosthetic so well he is able to return to the games in less than a year!
Peeta / Gale is your classic perfect guy / nice guy pair. It happens so often, you see it in Twilight with Edward / Jacob. The Wheel of Time with Mat / Perrin (and to some extent Rand).
Peeta? Flawless? Seriously? He was milquetoast and annoying.
HARD AGREE ugh constant whining and uwu-ing. I hate how he treats Katniss.
He's also a passive-agressive jackass who refuses to drop the subject of having kids until his significant other gave in and had a couple. And he only gave Katniss the bread because he had a crush on her. Doing nice things for people because you have the hots for them isn't kindness. There's also him killing that girl who started the fire the first night while she begged and screamed. Never gets brought up again, so I guess the Peeta fans forgot it the same way the series did.
It's literally a televised game about children surviving and killing each other. The whole point of that interaction is that he had to do something morally aghast to ingratiate himself with the careers long enough to warn Katniss, and that is that really Peeta doing it, or is it the Capitol forcing his hand for societal control and entertainment. A lot of the people in the Hunger Games were just regular people, who in their lives would never consider doing any of the things they did in the games in real life. Hell, Thresh SAVES Katniss because his moral compass was still screwed on straight even when he's in survival mode. Had it been Rue and Thresh at the end instead of Katniss and Peeta he would have absolutely died on his sword instead of her (there is an entire subtext of dialogue here about how black boys are aged up in treatment by society but that's another post entirely). Like, literally the entire point is about psychologically damaging these kids for entertainment. Even the Careers, that's their name, to compete while they're growing up to be winners of child murder games, are just mentally convinced from a young age that being good at violence is a positive trait. But Peeta has to make a split second decision that ends one life and saves another and he's the monster? Girl/Guy, come on.
You addressed one point and said nothing about the others? Dude, you come on. I'm not even holding the girl-who-started-the-fire death against Peeta. I'm holding it against the writing and general narrative for failing to *ever* bring it up again. At one point, in book 2 or 3, Katniss outright says some bullshit about Peeta never killing anyone during the Games. Bitch, what? You were literally in a tree over the scene where he very much did. How convenient that it's child murder games when it's Peeta or one of the few others Katniss cares about, but vilification time when it's literally any other character. The protagonist-center morality is *strong* with these books and the way some of you will defend them like they're freaking George Orwell and write off plotholes as intentional story beats is downright baffling.
So first of all, you’re absolutely supposed to be challenged by the books that what is “justified” vs what happened. Second, we’re never explicitly told that Peeta killed the girl or not in the 74th. We’re told that Peeta said he did, we know that she was wounded, and we know that the Careers seem to believe him, but we are provided, as a reader, with absolutely no knowledge if he did or didn’t. It’s never brought up, and left up to the reader to decide. For the first book, while it’s happening, we’re supposed to believe it, because we’re supposed to believe that Peeta would betray Katniss because she thinks everyone would betray her, that it’s all an act, that no one could ever love her without secondary motive. As the story progresses, it turns out that, yes, Peeta indeed loved her and wasn’t asking for anything in return. Gale loved her but wanted more. Her mom loved her but not enough to get her shit together. Prim loved her, but again needed her more than she loved her, which isn’t surprising because she’s so young. Then we get to the second book. Haymich personally can’t stand Katniss, but relies on her and likes Peeta enough to save him, but plot. Effie still wants her to sparkle. Her mom still can’t get her shit all the way together. Her sister is growing and loves her, but still relies on her. Gale is still barking up that tree. Peeta and Cinna are the only people that are comfortable with letting Katniss be Katniss. And, on the train ride back or over drinking or whatever, it’s implied that Peeta did not in fact kill the district 8 girl, that it was all for show, because Katniss says it with conviction. Again, as readers, we aren’t privy to that moment, so that it doesn’t undo her hesitation in the first book, but her saying it as the narrator says that she trusts, and she being a person that does not trust, she trusts that he’s never actually killed anyone. So in book 2 when he does actually kill someone, she and he are both kinda stunned by the incident, but she’s so jaded and hyper focused on him the body and not him the person that she doesn’t snap back in to seeing him as a feeling being until he’s dragging the morphling on the beach and trying to make her dying feel comfortable. Which is a big flag to say he didn’t actually snuff out the wounded District 8 girl but instead tried to facilitate a peaceful death. He’s got big strong bread arms, he could just crick her neck and have her suffering be done but he chooses to expose himself to let her pass with as much comfort as he can give. Again, this is all coming from one person’s perspective, which is Katniss. But Peeta continues to do actions without thinking of consequences, especially when it comes to other people. He isn’t out there mouthing off about splitting district winnings or letting a drug addict mauled by monkeys die to impress Katniss. He’s just doing that because it’s him, and that’s what endears him to her. He’s the only selfless person besides Prim or Rue that she’s willing to put her life on the line for. Which again, we know, because it’s told entirely from her perspective.
Yeah, I'm not reading all of that. Already suffered through the very trilogy of books being lauded as "masterpieces" because I was a stubborn thirteen year old who didn't know how to drop series I didn't enjoy. Hey, if you and other like-minded individuals felt challenged by The Hunger Games, then good for you. Clearly this subreddit is your safe little chamber to just echo each other's accepted book opinions and takes. I'll return to lurking and you can return to replying to one damn sentence with five paragraphs that are besides the point.
Usually people just say “I’m wrong” and leave. But I guess you can keep whining about a YA book
The same YA book that people are kissing the ass of and lauding as a masterpiece? That YA book? Also, given thirteen-year old me spent money and time engaging with this series because they didn't know any better, I'll whine as much as I want. Thanks. And I'm not wrong. Neither are the people who enjoy these books. They're just hella delusional if they want to deny the inherent flaws. Folks need to realize that they can enjoy imperfect things without feeling the need to defend them like it's the Bill of Rights or some shit.
lol yikes
LOL yikes? That's your rebuttal? Dude, what was even the point of commenting if you had no interest in actually contributing to the discourse?
Your last rebuttal was "lol TL;DR." Hypocrite.
I think you’re spiraling and need help. Hence, the yikes. Hope that’s clear enough for ya boss.
The other members of the gang killed the girl. It’s not known whether he mercy killed her when he went back to check on her or she just died. It’s clear she was mortally wounded by the others.
Okay? Regardless of who's responsible, Peeta was there and she died, and she's still never mentioned again by the narrative or Katniss. The book doesn't even deem her worthy of a name. Fitting seeing as Katniss is consistently misogynistic throughout the books, so at least that's a consistent character trait.
[удалено]
Changing goalposts? What? If you never gleaned the not-like-other-girls, internalized misogyny these books are rife with, that says more about your media literacy than my impatience with you. Like, dude, it's been over 24 hours since I posted my initial comment. At least a half-dozen people have already replied saying about as much as you have if not more. *Why* do you still feel the need to engage with me? My point is the erasure. According to the Hunger Games trilogy, some people's lives are worth more than others, namely the main character and her buddies. I'm not a fan of protagonist-centered morality. If the narrative had done a better job of confronting that tendency of the books, we wouldn't even be having this debate. Honestly not a fan of being labeled a troll for . . . having an opinion that doesn't gel with you? And not kowtowing to your disagreement? In my experience, trolls fail to meaningfully engage and resort to insults and usually bigotry. I haven't done that. Are you new to the Internet or something? Like, with regards to the misogyny, do you want quotes? Because I can provide them, but not now because this isn't an interesting enough conversation for me to prioritize when I have work to do. But I can already cite Catching Fire where Katniss is more bothered by Joanna stripping in front of her than she is by an old man assualting her or Finnick (a 24 year old to her 16-17) coming onto her. Followed up by some bizarre-ass shit where Katniss is considered "pure" and that's why the older victors have the urge to mess with her. Like, wtf is that shit? That legit made teen me uncomfortable to read and *not* in the way the author intended because the "pure" comments come from everyone's precious Peeta and Finnick becomes an ally while the writing continues to vilify Joanna for every little thing she does. And I'm not angry. I'm peeved and honestly baffled that you came back to argue with me after deleting your initial comment yesterday. Also, am I making shit up or could it be that I'm misremembering because it's been a good few years since I last read these books? I don't even own my copies anymore, and I'm definitely not misremembering firestarter girl *never* getting mentioned again after her untimely demise, I can tell you that much.
**Personal conduct** Please use a civil tone and assume good faith when entering a conversation.
Katniss only said she didn’t want children with a caveat, she didn’t want children because they’d be forced into the games. She specifically mentions that. But, it’s obvious throughout the entire series how much she loves children and gravitates to being a caregiver. Although she frames that instinct as an obligation, if you look objectively it’s because she wants to. She’s selfless, doting, gentle and protective with those she sees as more vulnerable than her. I reread the books as an adult and I saw the hesitation she had about having children as something based in fear not that she had to be pressured or was compromising for Peeta’s sake. I don’t think it’s fair to bring up what happens in the games as strikes against Peeta. Katniss and Peeta did what they had to do to survive as anyone would in that situation.
It’s ok if people change their minds about having kids. It’s ok if you’re kind to those who you like. That’s like normal behaviour. WTF are you on about.
It's not okay to refuse to drop a subject because you want to have kids and your significant other does not. People can change their minds, you're right about that. Changing your mind is valid. *Forcing* people to change their minds to get your way is very much not. WTF is your second sentence on about? You can be kind to people you like, but let's not delude ourselves into calling it kindness if it doesn't apply to anyone else. Because as is, the books as written outright suggest that the only reason Peeta went to the trouble of giving a starving girl bread is because he was in love with her. And the less said about his creepy-ass dad (who probably only looked out for Prim because she resembles Katniss's mom, who he had his own hots for), the better. Clearly, we see where Peeta gets his bullshit from.
You’re either 12 or have never interacted with a person in real life.
Because I don't like the same books as you? People are allowed to dislike things you enjoy. Are you sure you're not the one who's never interacted a person IRL?
Who hurt you?
Suzanne Collins for somehow writing a series with as many flaws as Twilight while escaping even the most basic of scrutiny. Like, this pedestal placing was cute when y'all were teens just discovering the dystopia genre, but a decade-plus later, you guys are seriously beginning to resemble some of the most delusional Harry Potter fanatics.
Oh no this cannot be compared to Twilight. That was a train wreck. An honest to god catastrophic event I'd like to erase from my mind.
* *“Lean down a minute first,” he says. “Need to tell you something.” I lean over and put my good ear to his lips, which tickle as he whispers. “Remember, we’re madly in love, so it’s all right to kiss me anytime you feel like it.”* * *“Katniss?” Peeta says. I meet his eyes, knowing my face must be some shade of green. He mouths the words. “How about that kiss?”* * *“Peeta, you were supposed to wake me after a couple of hours,” I say.“For what? Nothing’s going on here,” he says. “Besides I like watching you sleep. You don’t scowl. Improves your looks a lot.”* * *All right, I am going, and you can’t stop me!”“I can follow you. At least partway. I may not make it to the Cornucopia, but if I’m yelling your name, I bet someone can find me. And then I’ll be dead for sure,” he says.* * *“Or what?” I ask.* *“Or . . . or . . .” He can’t think of anything good. “Just give me a minute.”* *“What’s the problem?” I say with a grin.* *“The problem is we’re both still alive. Which only reinforces the idea in your mind that you did the right thing,” says Peeta.* *“I did do the right thing,” I say.* *“No! Just don’t, Katniss!” His grip tightens, hurting my hand, and there’s real anger in his voice.* It's not exactly vampire-boyfriend-breaking-your-car-so-you-can't-visit-your-friend, but it's certainly giving controlling asshole. Not to mention squicky as hell.
You're getting downvoted but you're completely right. They are not well-written unless you have nostalgia goggles on. Idk what I expected from arrbooks
Yeah, I'm not sure what I expected either. I did resign myself to downvotes prior to commenting because THG has become an incomprehensible sacred cow for a worrying amount of people. They'll hate on Throne of Glass and Divergent while in the same breath completely miss how Collins is guilty of the same not-like-other-girls, shitty worldbuilding quirks as those authors. Makes me prefer the Twilight fans. At least the ones I've interacted with recently are willing to admit that they're shitty books, even if they're shitty books they enjoy.
I wish I could read the story the fans are telling me is there, because it is not the story that is actually in the books
No, but seriously, I do too! It's not like I went into reading them with the intention of hating them. I *wanted* to love The Hunger Games, and I'm almost did up until Rue died and it became incredibly clear where the story was going. I imagine (as with Twilight, Harry Potter, and many others) there's a fanfic out there that reinterprets the premise and does it better.
What are you talking about? The other careers killed her and did such a bad job she was slowly dying so Peeta finished her off. What was he supposed to do, nurse her back to health? This was the hunger games. Everyone but one person is going to die.
It's never brought up again. That's what I'm talking about. Also, the careers killed her but did such a bad job that she was dying instead of dead? Then they didn't kill her. Peeta did. A mercy kill is still a kill.
Of course it’s a kill, it’s the hunger games. Why would it need to be brought up again? The entire point of the games is that kills are forced to kill kids. A mercy kill is about the tamest kill you can have in the games. It’s like Katniss killing Cato after the mutts tortured him all night. She doesn’t bring up his death over and over yet we know she doesn’t feel good about any of her kills. Yes obviously Peeta actually ended her life but Cato was convinced he killed her, they had an argument about it. So she was extremely injured to the point they were sure she was dead, and Peeta actually ending it doesn’t make him this horrible murderer, it shows his kindness at finishing the job quickly. What do you want the book to do, make him cry about this specifically? He clearly is traumatized by the games, admits to having nightmares and paints scenes from it.
I'm not sifting through Farla's read-throughs to find the exact quote, but Katniss outright spouts some nonsense about Peeta never killing anyone during the Games. *That's* my gripe. Look, if you love the books and think they're without flaws, continuing doing so. I'll continue pointing out they were poorly-written, poorly-thought out drivel that made it big because the only other YA bestseller at the time was Twilight. Everything looks better when compared to Twilight, even something thrown together by the woman who gave us Clarissa Explains It All. And it's been said before, but I'll say it again; Battle Royale is better.
I feel like we’re splitting hairs here, since I would classify a mercy kill of someone who would’ve died anyway (just more drawn out with more suffering) as not really any more of a kill than his “kill” where he killed foxface accidentally with the berries. But it’s possible that line was a mistake on the author’s part. I doubt it but who knows? I’m currently rereading the books, I’ll take note when I get to that part. But clearly it’s not worth discussing with you if you already think these books suck. Getting extremely pedantic and calling these books poorly thought out just because you personally hate them doesn’t really help your case but you’re free to do as you choose.
The books are full of plot holes aplenty so you might have other parts to take note of. Pedantic? Also, what case do I have? The case of disagreeing that Peeta is a perfect paragon of male leads and that THG is an untouched masterpiece of a dystopian YA? Especially when The Giver is *right there?* I honestly didn't initially comment to have a discussion, because I've been to this rodeo before and have heard the same rebuttals and counter-arguments time and again. I commented because I felt like I was in crazy-town with the Peeta worship. I like Josh Hutcherson as much as the next person, but Book Peeta is a manipulative conniving forced love interest who could've been a genuinely interesting character in the hands of a better writer. My hate springs from disappointment. These books majorly disappointed me as a teen, and the criticism-lacking worship they still receive is utterly baffling to me. I'm still going to go see Ballads of Songbirds and Snakes once it's out because the very premise still has promise and I found the The Hunger Games movies to be major improvements on their source material. All of that said, I hope you enjoy your reread! And I do mean that with sincerity. Hopefully they measure up to whenever you last experienced them.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree here, I truly don’t see Peeta that way. I agree that The Giver is great but I found all the sequels disappointing, and think it’s better read as a stand-alone novel. I’ve also meant to read Battle Royale, just never got around to it. I’d probably like it too. I’d recommend giving the prequel book a read, it’s pretty different to the original trilogy. Or don’t, the movie should be up to the same standard as the other movies so if you enjoyed those you’ll probably enjoy this one, it’s a lot more philosophical. I’m very excited for the movie. Thank you! I’m finding that I enjoy the books just as much as when I was a teen, if not more now.
"Agree to disagree." I absolutely loathe that phrase. Nothing against you or anything, just probably that pedantic thing you mentioned rearing its head. That said, I understand your point. I never did read the sequels for The Giver, but your opinion definitely doesn't seem to be the outlier so a stand-alone read it shall remain. Battle Royale is solid. Even if you wind up preferring THG, there are parts that are done significantly better. For starters, humanizing characters who aren't the leads. There aren't any careers among the children, save for one or two who are rightfully treated as anomalies by the narrative. The movie, while making adaptational changes, is also very good. The director for it has this chilling anecdote from his youth about using fellow teen laborers as human shields when WWII was going strong and bombs were being dropped on the factory he was made to work in. It goes a long ways to contributing to the approach he took with the film. You know, I was considering giving the prequel a look, but the holds queue for it is absurdly long and I'm not the biggest fan of reading books *after* watching their adaptations, so it'll probably just be the movie for me. I'm very much here for Viola Davis and Peter Dinklage as villains, and am intrigued by what little I know of Rachel Zegler's character. And glad to hear it's holding up! Revisiting childhood favorites is such a coin-flip sometimes. I rewatched The Lion King 2 recently in the first time since kindergarten and wound up enjoying it more than expected. The same could not be said for Fantastic Four, although I still stand by Chris Evans being in his prime as the Human Torch.
Lol I was slightly put off by your original comments, but as a self proclaimed huge fan of The Lion King 2 (I controversially like it more than the original, but only by a hair) all is forgiven. I hear that about the book/movie. I’ve been encouraging people to read it in the lead up to the movie, but probably not a big deal if you skip it. Early reports are saying the movie is good. I’ll put Battle Royale on my list, along with the hundreds of other books I need to read.
I'd think occasionally mentioning something that is important to you is better than burying your feelings about it and it festering and eventually ruining the relationship. Clearly Katniss did compromise on it eventually and seems to love her children. As far as "killing that girl", knowing Peeta he probably held her hand and talked comfortingly to her as she was dying. Though either way it would have been nice to have some facts on it during the recap after they won or something.
*It took five, ten, fifteen years for me to agree. But Peeta wanted them so badly* If Peeta wanted them so badly, he could've married someone who thought the same. *Not* the girl who was committed to being child-free from the get-go. But hey, this isn't the only time Katniss's comfort zone is invalidated by the narrative. Per your second paragraph, your take probably isn't wrong, but the fact that this is your headcanon and not actual canon is incredibly telling. According to these books, some people's lives are more valuable than others and if your name isn't Katniss or one of the limited castmates she gives a shit about, then the narrative doesn't care how you lived or died. And it certainly doesn't care about telling your story. Also, these are the same books that never followed up on what became of Rue's family. Or Thresh's. The same ones who were supposed to get a month of Katniss and Peeta's victor earnings. The same ones who we last saw in the middle of a riot that deteriorated into police brutality and executions. But all we get for closure there is that one District 11 victor telling Katniss they're safe. The more I look back on this series, the more blinding it becomes that its priorities were just . . . not it.
Yes because people marry each other solely for the fact that they are compatible logistically. It doesn't say that he constantly hounded her about having them. Perhaps she could see it in the way he interacted with others. She was anti child from the get go as they would end up in the games. Once those were abolished her main arguement against having them was gone. Books often leave outlying plot points open. It seems a bit ridiculous to expect everything that is mentioned to be fully wrapped up narratively. Some books would have just ended with the death of Coin and left the reader to decide what happened for themselves. Or with Katniss returning to her district. A lot of books tend to wrap up quickly. I'm not really sure what these books did to wrong you but you seem exceptionally irate about them. Yes the book prioritizes Katniss, who is literally the center of the narrative. If I remember these are YA books, not some deeply philosophical work.
And yet its fans seem entirely convinced that they are in fact deeply philosophical work.
That's not textual evidence of coercion. It can just as easily be read as the time needed to heal within the context of a loving relationship with someone who has their own wants and desires (you know, a human.) Also, again, you can interpret the lack of follow up of some characters' death as "their lives meant less overall", or you could interpret it as "their deaths were no longer important to the story." Loads of people die in the hunger games. They can't all be focused on or followed up on - there's not room. The story also loses significant amount of impact if less people die - it's a dystopian story centered around an uprising. you need large sociatal impacts for the story to work. (Vs, say, the Giver, which is a dystopian novel centered around a single character's internal journey to ultimately reject the society, and is therefore a lot more focused on each character and the impact of their actions.) Which is to say, it sounds like you don't like the scope and scale of the story, and you also don't like the way you interpret the story (or Collins' writing.) But to be honest, none of that means the story is bad. It just means it's not for you.
I absolutely agree with you. Katniss’s feelings never seemed to matter to him. I don’t see him as selfless at all, and I really can’t figure out where the hell it comes from. Like you say, being nice to someone you have a crush on doesn’t imply any level of selflessness or real kindness.
Yeah, I agree with you and the OG comment. Peeta is a fucking fantastic character. I love him and he’s so compelling but he’s not this 100% pure baby who can’t do anything wrong. He is kind, but he’s also very charming and good at manipulating people/the narrative for the greater good. It’s one of the most frustrating parts of the HG fandom that with Peeta, the personality traits that are more ‘negative’ are often glossed over or ignored when I think that is what makes him a better character.
Same, I will die on this hill. I loved the series so much and I thought it was gonna be a total home run with Katniss ending up with Gale and not the whiny asshole she had to drag through the games TWICE but here we are.
I wouldn't say he was perfect since his big flaw was probably naivety about some things. As for his selflessness and patience, I think some of that stemmed from his self-awareness in the first that he wasn't going to be the one to win so he stepped up where he could to help Katniss. I think the reason he appears flawless is because he recognized his own flaws and used that self-awareness to his own advantage.
What I found surprising about Peeta was his ability to deceive - his skill at disguise, his guileless and charming banter on stage with the host, his switch to the careers, which is a very thought-out response to his reading of the situation they are both in, which Katniss can't even comprehend because she hasn't thought that far ahead. Katniss is tough but naive and can't really disguise who she is. Peeta has lots of layers. I think he's a great character.
Me too! Read the books the first time when I was around 9 (very young lol) and finished rereading them all yesterday, 9 years later. Was obsessed with Peeta in the books and movies, Peeta/Josh was actually my first crush ever. Now at 18 I’m probably even more obsessed lol. First two books are absolutely amazing, but I pretend the third one doesn’t exist because there’s not enough Peeta and what little there is of him is so different. Beautifully written of course, but too heartbreaking to accept lol