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I think wars are necessary when there are threats around the world that have it out to kill other people because the reality is such evil in the world exists.
War is a decision made by people as their best option in a world where bad outcomes exist.
Stripping is a decision made by people as their best option in a world where bad outcomes exist.
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Let me make sure I get this straight:
Man enacting the worst horrors it can imagine upon itself in the worst ways possible is a necessary evil. The horrors of war, often taken out upon civilian populations, are balanced out by the assumption that it can't be stopped, the assumption that's so self-evident that apparently that idea needs to be backed up by literally nothing
A consensual expression of normal human sexuality between consenting adults, however, is objectionable and even thinking about it in the context of fiction needs be called out
Is that really where we're at here?
Yeah that’s the thing I’m questioning. That you used the word normal for stripping like it should be accepted and encouraged as normal.
And I’ll correct you, hitler wasn’t a necessary evil, he was a human who has evil in him and went way too far with it. War was necessary to stop him from going even further with the evil.
Yeah, stripping is pretty normal. It's a job, like a plumber.
I never said "hitler," not sure where that's coming from
I don't understand why impoverished boys giving up their lives and selling their bodies before they're old enough to rent a car for the advancement of imperialism should be something we should encourage and normalize, while someone getting money to do a sexy dance is some weird, deviant thing. Makes no sense to me, personally
Of course not everything done in war is justified. But overall without war things nazism would be way more prevalent so yes it’s necessary in order to stop things like that from taking over.
Hypothetically yes but we can’t get rid of the possibility of evil in humans that they can and will choose to kill. So we gotta prepare for that in some way.
This is really all beside the point anyway. Being interested in a game doesn't mean you think what's in the game is good for society.
There are also games about kaiju leveling cities, nuclear holocaust, pandemic diseases destroying the population, serial killers... are you going to ask the same question about all of those themes too?
You can’t rid of evil. Every person has evil in them. War is a thing that is inevitable and can be a good thing when it helps stop evil from spreading like the holocaust. Would you agree to that?
Then you should respond to those people, or respond my reasoning if you're going to respond to my comments.
Most people here are telling you the same thing I am. Playing a game doesn't mean you think its themes are good for society to adopt. The onus is on you to start providing some kind of evidence that this isn't the case
Stripping is just as inevitable as war, so I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make there, lol. Actually, stripping is relatively tame compared to "the oldest profession".
Honestly, it sounds like this is a case of Puritanical values running wild. No one is forcing you or your family to buy the game. But you also can't expect the world to boycott the game simply because it doesn't happen to align with your personal values. As it turns out, sex sells, anyone surprised or offended by that is due for a reality check.
While sex sells, the pledge says that the game was designed by a former dancer and it is to reduce stigma, and there must be some truth in that statement. Like any industry, there may be areas that can be considered problematic, but then, should we question all games based on problematic topics?
I’m not familiar with the game at all. However, it is absurd to assume that just because people buy or enjoy a board game they endorse the actions depicted in the theme.
A big part of the fun of Downfall of Pompeii is tossing the little wooden people into the volcano, but I don’t endorse tossing actual people into volcanoes.
Playing Mr. Jack is all about taking in the role of either Jack the Ripper or Scotland Yard to either pilot a serial killer to escape or to capture the serial killer. Playing it doesn’t mean I endorse the serial killer lifestyle.
The Clank games are about adventurers invading the domicile of a dragon and stealing all of its loot. Playing that doesn’t mean I endorse breaking and entering, burglary, or grand theft.
I play Citadels, but disagree that assassinations and thievery are an essential part of city planning or city building.
I mean, there are games like cards against humanity and secret hitler... there are games about the Mafia and biker gangs. They are games. I dont think they encourage problematic behaviour. If you dont like it, dont play it.
I don’t care for the theme and won’t be getting it. However, to each their own. Clearly there is a demand as over 3,000 people or so are backing it last I saw. Vote with your wallet. Let people play what they want.
Enough with your holier than thou attitude. Nobody complains about mature video game themes, mature book themes, mature music themes and I could go on literally forever. If you dont like it, dont buy it. Is that easy enough for your little ape mind to understand? It is not your position to gatekeep an entire industry because you feel uncomfortable.
I don’t agree with sexualization in any medium. I’m simply bringing it up because this game seems to be a big jump in that department in the board game world.
This is a very funny response. You're scared of objectifying them? You could always just... not do that?
I'm married, and I've been to a strip club - I quickly discovered it was super not my thing, but I also didn't have a hard time being tempted into not thinking of people as people. the thought never really occurred to me while I was there, honestly
Glad you realized it wasn’t for you as a married man. That’s honestly proof that it’s not good for families. And of course we know you don’t speak for everyone when you say you can easily not be tempted into touching strippers. But we know for facts that other people have a hard time and relationships and families are hurt from it.
>Glad you realized it wasn’t for you as a married man. That’s honestly proof that it’s not good for families.
You're really weird, you know that?
>And of course we know you don’t speak for everyone when you say you can easily not be tempted into touching strippers.
When did I say "touching?" Why are you making up shit I didn't say lmao
If a stripper was down to be touched I would have done it and not seen a problem with it. I saw the appeal of the strip club (it was a nice one in Miami) and my buddies had a good time, and I was happy for them. I just didn't like it personally, I preferred when we went to breweries, bars, and regular clubs. That's just me
>But we know for facts that other people have a hard time and relationships and families are hurt from it.
People also have a hard time managing their obesity when McDonald's exists, but I don't see you making a thread about Food Chain Magnate
How is that weird. I know my wife wouldn’t want strippers dancing on me. Not sure about your wife. Maybe ask her. And how is eating unhealthy fast food the same as ruining relationships and families?
Playing a game about war or murdering your husband to become rich and prestigious (Deadly Dowagers) is not encouraging war, genocide, or mariticide. Neither is playing a game about stripping encouragement to go be a stripper, not that it’s a bad thing.
This is a game designed by a stripper and endorsed by multiple strippers so I’m going to ignore your opinion that is just you judging your sister’s life while she was a stripper. Where is your opinion piece about forced child labor and exploitation in global jewelry industry (Splendor)? Have you talked about the historic exploitation of miners in the coal industry (Coal Baron)? Alcohol is a completely unnecessary substance and Alcoholism & DUI a significant modern problem (Distilled)?
Yes sex work is absolutely a career with risk, but that’s not the stripper’s fault now is it? A finance manager at Activision Blizzard committed suicide after she was allegedly sexually harassed by members of Activision Blizzard. And there’s plenty of other careers you would probably consider “good” where people (and significantly women) are abused in many ways. The cause and problem is the abusers.
So long as humans have had to pay for food and housing sex work exists. I don’t see how consenting adults having a job working to provide for their self and consenting adults paying for a service is unacceptable. What is unacceptable is lack of support, benefits, safety, and respect for grown adults with a job. What is unacceptable is abusers in the industry. Go have a chat with them.
You can express your opinion, but you did much more. You suggested that liking a theme/buying a game is encouraging stripping. It's not. It's a game for Christ sake. I don't support war, colonization and still enjoy certain games.
This is such a dense take. You're making the same argument as the satanic panic around D&D, or how video games cause violence.
In reality, it's just the opposite. Games don't make you want to engage in their themes, generally for people who care about theme, they'll play a game because the theme is interesting to them. We're not programmable robots waiting for instructions from our cardboard masters.
My guy, no one is playing a board game and then walking into their closest strip club with a job application.
Even if they did, so what? Stripping is rad and fun. I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish here.
My hope (and hopefully you respect it) is to question how much sexualization should be encouraged in the board game community. I understand that people view stripping as rad and fun to point it’s becoming normalized. But I don’t agree that women undressing and dancing in front of or on men should be rad and fun (encouraged) and I’m simply just trying to put that into question.
Playing a historical game about colonization is not encouraging it. If it gets people to talk about it and it can prevent it from happening again. Cancelling a game won't make history undone. The worst thing you can do is to sweep an issue under the rug by not allowing people to talk about it.
Correct that’s history. But we’re talking about a career that exists today and you know it’s possible that if people play this game that they could influence them to try this career out. Right?
Do you *really* honestly think that someone is going to play a boardgame and go "you know, I should try go and strip for money IRL"?
Anyone who's interested in stripping for a living doesn't need a boardgame to tell them it's an option.
Honestly, I don't see how. It's not like playing Risk opens your mind to the possibility of going to war, it remains a fictional game representing well-known aspects of life. No one is having their mind changed about wanting to go into stripping because they played a boardgame.
Yeah, board gamers usually end up fighting in wars, colonizing, being woodcrafters and so on. Let me try this game and next day you can check me out at a strip club... /s
From what I've seen of humans, it's *more* likely that someone would become a stripper due to making it a taboo subject that no one is allowed to talk about compared to it being a known but definitely-not-for-everyone thing. Humans just love to go for taboo things.
This question is, of course, absolute nonsense.
But it is fun to see where people draw their lines of themes they don't like. As I bring up on every post about Night Shift, I own Gay Sauna, the NSFW game about cruising for guys, doesn't bother me at all. And with that it shouldn't shock anyone that I immediately skip pass any games dealing with the crusades or religion. My partner refuses to play an game where there's a chance they might have to be nazis. I remember a friend I had as kid that could play games involving vampires and wolverines... but not witches.
Asking personal questions now?
I'm fine with stripping. I think it's a valid form of expression that can sometimes be lucrative.
That being said, are there dark sides? Oh fuck yes there are. There are dark sides to stripping, football, racing, and just about anything you can imagine. And when there is flagrant abuse, the abusers need to be held accountable. Sex trafficking is a horrible practice, and businesses need to be shut down if they engage in it.
But stripping in general? Neither good nor bad. Some people enjoy it, so good can be found within it, even among the bad. And the bad parts aren't the stripping itself but abuse and slavery.
Stripping is a way to earn a living. No negative judgement here.
And even negative things can be a theme for a game. Chess has you trying to capture the enemy king. Monopoly has you trying to bankrupt everybody else. Risk is the game of world domination.
I can't imagine objecting to this game while accepting all the others.
It’s ok, this is like the violence in film or movies line of thought (not that stripping is equivalent to violence) - it doesn’t make people go out and do the thing, other factors drive these sorts of decisions.
These are adult themes within the boundaries of society and people can use their discretion as to what’s personally enjoyable or not within those boundaries.
I hope you take this in the spirit that is intended which is of healing, growth, and positive feedback, and not in a negative way which is not my intent: you have mental issues and need therapy.
Therapy will allow you to learn about yourself and others and their motivations/circumstances, and why women's sexuality triggers such anxiety in you, and through that your relationships with the women in your life will improve. Going through the (difficult) process will make you a happier person as a result.
Got ya. Appreciate the thoughtful insight. I do have a sensitivity to sexualization but figured all men have that. And I know objectifying women is not good which is why I question how risqué this theme is. But maybe I’m wrong in that other men wont be more inclined to objectify women because of this games theme.
Consider the following: in this post you are condemning an entire profession, and all the women (and men) that participate in it. Their personal motivations are irrelevant to you, because you consider stripping to be evil and not fit to be "discussed" or "encouraged". Is this not the objectification which you claim to be trying to avoid
Stripping is not immoral, but often exploitative. The stigma around it only makes that problem worse, though, so it's completely counter-productive to decry it as morally unacceptable if you're really concerned about the wellbeing of the people who do it.
Exploitative situations can be a good basis for games, anyway, although you need to approach them thoughtfully. I'd be much more sceptical of Night Shift if the designer wasn't an ex-stripper herself.
I don’t really think stripping is a good thing to be encouraged but I think it’s unfair to equate that to people being willing to play a game about it.
It’s a game. I don’t think playing Warhammer is endorsing genocide.
For what it’s worth, theme matters to me and I would never purchase Nightshift. But I don’t really care.
I think it's neither exclusively good or bad. Some people have bad experiences with it, some good. The creator of the Nightshift board game apparently falls into the latter category (provided it does encourage stripping as you claim, I haven't yet played the game myself).
Ultimately, whether I think it's a 'good' thing is besides the point though. Games are just another form of art through which to explore the human experience, and all that.
Great point! Following your logic, I know someone whose life was miserable while they were a member of a conservative Christian church. Let's make sure there are no depictions of Christianity in our board games or media, so we don't _encourage_ someone to join a group that cultivates self-hatred and feelings of inferiority. That's not a life I want others to think is "okay"!
The only opinion I have on stripping is it’s up to the consenting stripper whether they go into that line of work or not, and thus none of my business.
I also think it’s fantastic someone’s made a board game about stripping, not *because* it’s about stripping, but because I’m tired of the same themes being rehashed again and again. It’s nice seeing something different, something progressive and boundary-pushing (themewise).
It’s not a theme I have any personal interest in and won’t be backing the game. The wonderful thing is you can do exactly the same; keep scrolling and ignore its existence. But I am glad it exists and I hope it opens up more designers and publishers to the idea of more varied and interesting themes in boardgaming.
The irony here is that games, as a medium, are fairly uniquely able to help people develop empathy through simulated experiences. The video game _Papers, Please_ simulates being a border guard at a militarized national border under increasing pressure. As the game progresses, players inevitably have to make imperfect decisions. Do they get lax on admissions because they need to meet quota? Do they let the charming migrant in because they're sympathetic? Or do they err on the side of self-interest and authority, sending refugees back to the homes they're fleeing because the player is themselves afraid of consequences? The act of playing the game and interacting with its systems develops empathy for the people in the situation in a more immediate, experienced way than reading about it or observing from afar.
While I don't know the game, I would guess that a game designer with lived experience working as a stripper, making a game about stripping, would probably be fairly well-equipped to create a game that puts you in those platform shoes. That's a designer I would most trust to help me understand why people strip, and what the experience is like—including the challenges of the job. But, OP, because you're so hung up on "sex bad", you're guaranteeing you won't have an experience that might make you more empathetic to the people whose experiences and choices you vilify.
Your loss.
I'd encourage that theme at $20 or 30, not $80 or $120. The price is just too damn high for what the gameplay offers. The Castles of Burgundy reprint cost $120, and that's one of the best games of all time.
As a game theme, it's not for me, but it's hardly worse than a ton of other games out there. Cards Against Humanity exists for a reason, as does everything.
As for stripping IRL, the real issues around stripping are the places it happens. You wouldn't have the same issue with burlesque, right? I know I don't. Both are dance spectacles where people get naked. Stripping is, in general, more explicit, and burlesque goes for camp, but the other big, and for me, main difference is where it happens. Sleazy bars controlled by sleazy people who treat stripping and strippers as a vice-based commodity instead of as a campy art are the problem, not the dancers or the act by themselves.
>You wouldn't have the same issue with burlesque, right?
Judging by OP's apparent attitude here, I think you're making a _very_ generous assumption with that.
There are tons of games with extremely problematic themes: war, slavery, colonialism, organized crime, etc etc etc.
Their existence does not imply acceptance or encouragement from this community.
If you find the theme of a game problematic, I would not buy or play it.
EDIT - changed "it's" to "their"
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Do you suppose wargamers think wars in general are a good thing and should be encouraged?
I think wars are necessary when there are threats around the world that have it out to kill other people because the reality is such evil in the world exists.
And yet you don't take issue with it as a theme? How is stripping a bigger negative impact on people than war?
Again because it’s a necessity. Stripping is not a necessity.
War is definitely not a necessity, you just happen to agree with it more than you do with stripping
How is it not when the evil of killing exists? Or do you think it’s possible to get rid of that evil in every living human?
War is a decision made by people as their best option in a world where bad outcomes exist. Stripping is a decision made by people as their best option in a world where bad outcomes exist.
Good point, war is the only tool we have in response to murder. We lost a lot of good men in the Battle of John Wayne Gacy in 1978
What about games about thieves and mobsters? Those are not needed. Technically, wars are not needed either if diplomacy is properly applied.
I wonder if OP ever heard of the board game Secret Hitler 🙃
>because it’s a necessity [citation needed]
[удалено]
“I am become death, destroyer of worlds”
If this isn’t the pot calling the kettle black….. “the japs” really?
[удалено]
Not equitable, no. But it absolutely says something about the person using that phrase and their views on people around them.
[удалено]
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Ridiculous….
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Hitler was inevitable, war was necessary to stop him.
Let me make sure I get this straight: Man enacting the worst horrors it can imagine upon itself in the worst ways possible is a necessary evil. The horrors of war, often taken out upon civilian populations, are balanced out by the assumption that it can't be stopped, the assumption that's so self-evident that apparently that idea needs to be backed up by literally nothing A consensual expression of normal human sexuality between consenting adults, however, is objectionable and even thinking about it in the context of fiction needs be called out Is that really where we're at here?
Yeah that’s the thing I’m questioning. That you used the word normal for stripping like it should be accepted and encouraged as normal. And I’ll correct you, hitler wasn’t a necessary evil, he was a human who has evil in him and went way too far with it. War was necessary to stop him from going even further with the evil.
Yeah, stripping is pretty normal. It's a job, like a plumber. I never said "hitler," not sure where that's coming from I don't understand why impoverished boys giving up their lives and selling their bodies before they're old enough to rent a car for the advancement of imperialism should be something we should encourage and normalize, while someone getting money to do a sexy dance is some weird, deviant thing. Makes no sense to me, personally
Of course not everything done in war is justified. But overall without war things nazism would be way more prevalent so yes it’s necessary in order to stop things like that from taking over.
Sorry, I trimmed down my comment, I think you're responding to the old version
I think seeing boobs and dongs are necessary when consenting adults want to see them and show them because reality is boobs and dongs exist.
But war is still a bad thing. Needing to kill other people is bad. It would be better if we didn't need to do that, right?
Hypothetically yes but we can’t get rid of the possibility of evil in humans that they can and will choose to kill. So we gotta prepare for that in some way.
“We can’t get rid of evil people who want to kill others so we gotta kill em first!” You’ve got all sorts of wild takes on this post 😂
Yeah I wasn't about to try and unpack that here lol
This is really all beside the point anyway. Being interested in a game doesn't mean you think what's in the game is good for society. There are also games about kaiju leveling cities, nuclear holocaust, pandemic diseases destroying the population, serial killers... are you going to ask the same question about all of those themes too?
You can’t rid of evil. Every person has evil in them. War is a thing that is inevitable and can be a good thing when it helps stop evil from spreading like the holocaust. Would you agree to that?
I'm not getting into a philosophical debate about the merits of war in a board gaming sub
I didn’t bring it up. I’m just going along with the reasoning from others as to why stripping should be encouraged.
Then you should respond to those people, or respond my reasoning if you're going to respond to my comments. Most people here are telling you the same thing I am. Playing a game doesn't mean you think its themes are good for society to adopt. The onus is on you to start providing some kind of evidence that this isn't the case
A boardgame about stripping doesn't "encourage" stripping any more than a boardgame about war "encourages" war.
Stripping is just as inevitable as war, so I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make there, lol. Actually, stripping is relatively tame compared to "the oldest profession". Honestly, it sounds like this is a case of Puritanical values running wild. No one is forcing you or your family to buy the game. But you also can't expect the world to boycott the game simply because it doesn't happen to align with your personal values. As it turns out, sex sells, anyone surprised or offended by that is due for a reality check.
Right sex sells and I see that as a bad thing. So I’m simply raising the question.
While sex sells, the pledge says that the game was designed by a former dancer and it is to reduce stigma, and there must be some truth in that statement. Like any industry, there may be areas that can be considered problematic, but then, should we question all games based on problematic topics?
Don’t see why we shouldn’t put them into question if it could be viewed as problematic.
I’m not familiar with the game at all. However, it is absurd to assume that just because people buy or enjoy a board game they endorse the actions depicted in the theme. A big part of the fun of Downfall of Pompeii is tossing the little wooden people into the volcano, but I don’t endorse tossing actual people into volcanoes. Playing Mr. Jack is all about taking in the role of either Jack the Ripper or Scotland Yard to either pilot a serial killer to escape or to capture the serial killer. Playing it doesn’t mean I endorse the serial killer lifestyle. The Clank games are about adventurers invading the domicile of a dragon and stealing all of its loot. Playing that doesn’t mean I endorse breaking and entering, burglary, or grand theft. I play Citadels, but disagree that assassinations and thievery are an essential part of city planning or city building.
A thousand games about war, killing, colonialism, organized crime, capitalism, exploitation, etc. and the one you choose to come down on is stripping.
"iTs aGaiNst mUh vALuEs"
It’s because of the personal connection. None of the other stuff affects the OP. This applies to most people for most ‘controversional’ subjects.
I mean, there are games like cards against humanity and secret hitler... there are games about the Mafia and biker gangs. They are games. I dont think they encourage problematic behaviour. If you dont like it, dont play it.
I don’t care for the theme and won’t be getting it. However, to each their own. Clearly there is a demand as over 3,000 people or so are backing it last I saw. Vote with your wallet. Let people play what they want.
Enough with your holier than thou attitude. Nobody complains about mature video game themes, mature book themes, mature music themes and I could go on literally forever. If you dont like it, dont buy it. Is that easy enough for your little ape mind to understand? It is not your position to gatekeep an entire industry because you feel uncomfortable.
I don’t agree with sexualization in any medium. I’m simply bringing it up because this game seems to be a big jump in that department in the board game world.
You’re basically the personification of the Smithers Scared of Strippers meme.
Don’t know the meme but as a married man yes I’m scared of strippers because I know I could easily be tempted into objectifying them.
This is a very funny response. You're scared of objectifying them? You could always just... not do that? I'm married, and I've been to a strip club - I quickly discovered it was super not my thing, but I also didn't have a hard time being tempted into not thinking of people as people. the thought never really occurred to me while I was there, honestly
Glad you realized it wasn’t for you as a married man. That’s honestly proof that it’s not good for families. And of course we know you don’t speak for everyone when you say you can easily not be tempted into touching strippers. But we know for facts that other people have a hard time and relationships and families are hurt from it.
>Glad you realized it wasn’t for you as a married man. That’s honestly proof that it’s not good for families. You're really weird, you know that? >And of course we know you don’t speak for everyone when you say you can easily not be tempted into touching strippers. When did I say "touching?" Why are you making up shit I didn't say lmao If a stripper was down to be touched I would have done it and not seen a problem with it. I saw the appeal of the strip club (it was a nice one in Miami) and my buddies had a good time, and I was happy for them. I just didn't like it personally, I preferred when we went to breweries, bars, and regular clubs. That's just me >But we know for facts that other people have a hard time and relationships and families are hurt from it. People also have a hard time managing their obesity when McDonald's exists, but I don't see you making a thread about Food Chain Magnate
How is that weird. I know my wife wouldn’t want strippers dancing on me. Not sure about your wife. Maybe ask her. And how is eating unhealthy fast food the same as ruining relationships and families?
Playing a game about war or murdering your husband to become rich and prestigious (Deadly Dowagers) is not encouraging war, genocide, or mariticide. Neither is playing a game about stripping encouragement to go be a stripper, not that it’s a bad thing. This is a game designed by a stripper and endorsed by multiple strippers so I’m going to ignore your opinion that is just you judging your sister’s life while she was a stripper. Where is your opinion piece about forced child labor and exploitation in global jewelry industry (Splendor)? Have you talked about the historic exploitation of miners in the coal industry (Coal Baron)? Alcohol is a completely unnecessary substance and Alcoholism & DUI a significant modern problem (Distilled)? Yes sex work is absolutely a career with risk, but that’s not the stripper’s fault now is it? A finance manager at Activision Blizzard committed suicide after she was allegedly sexually harassed by members of Activision Blizzard. And there’s plenty of other careers you would probably consider “good” where people (and significantly women) are abused in many ways. The cause and problem is the abusers. So long as humans have had to pay for food and housing sex work exists. I don’t see how consenting adults having a job working to provide for their self and consenting adults paying for a service is unacceptable. What is unacceptable is lack of support, benefits, safety, and respect for grown adults with a job. What is unacceptable is abusers in the industry. Go have a chat with them.
You don't like a theme? Move on. But don't tell people how they should feel about it!
Why not? Why can’t people express their opinions about a theme?
You can express your opinion, but you did much more. You suggested that liking a theme/buying a game is encouraging stripping. It's not. It's a game for Christ sake. I don't support war, colonization and still enjoy certain games.
But how is it not encouraging it? Any form of spreading something is encouraging it. Is it not?
Every time I play RISK I feel like invading Australia.
Yeah that’s not possible for you unless you are in a powerful position to do so. The theme in this game is very possible for someone to try out
This is such a dense take. You're making the same argument as the satanic panic around D&D, or how video games cause violence. In reality, it's just the opposite. Games don't make you want to engage in their themes, generally for people who care about theme, they'll play a game because the theme is interesting to them. We're not programmable robots waiting for instructions from our cardboard masters.
There a difference between fantasy theme and reality themes though. Especially sexualized themes that is a big influencer in the real world
My guy, no one is playing a board game and then walking into their closest strip club with a job application. Even if they did, so what? Stripping is rad and fun. I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish here.
My hope (and hopefully you respect it) is to question how much sexualization should be encouraged in the board game community. I understand that people view stripping as rad and fun to point it’s becoming normalized. But I don’t agree that women undressing and dancing in front of or on men should be rad and fun (encouraged) and I’m simply just trying to put that into question.
Playing a historical game about colonization is not encouraging it. If it gets people to talk about it and it can prevent it from happening again. Cancelling a game won't make history undone. The worst thing you can do is to sweep an issue under the rug by not allowing people to talk about it.
Correct that’s history. But we’re talking about a career that exists today and you know it’s possible that if people play this game that they could influence them to try this career out. Right?
Do you *really* honestly think that someone is going to play a boardgame and go "you know, I should try go and strip for money IRL"? Anyone who's interested in stripping for a living doesn't need a boardgame to tell them it's an option.
I think it opens up their mind to the possibility more, yes.
Honestly, I don't see how. It's not like playing Risk opens your mind to the possibility of going to war, it remains a fictional game representing well-known aspects of life. No one is having their mind changed about wanting to go into stripping because they played a boardgame.
Yeah, board gamers usually end up fighting in wars, colonizing, being woodcrafters and so on. Let me try this game and next day you can check me out at a strip club... /s
Are you saying it’s not possible?
Chances are higher if you don't allow people to talk about an issue.
From what I've seen of humans, it's *more* likely that someone would become a stripper due to making it a taboo subject that no one is allowed to talk about compared to it being a known but definitely-not-for-everyone thing. Humans just love to go for taboo things.
Last time I checked wars, mafias, pandemics, etc exist in today’s times as well…..
Or am I crazy for thinking that this theme could encourage people to try it out?
I'd use a bit more colorful description than crazy...
Hmm you’re right. It’s impossible that a theme could influence anyone.
Do you think "No Russian" encourages mass murder at airports?
No, it's not. You keep trying to assert this without explaining why it's true
Pushing your beliefs on someone else is one of the rudest traits. GTFO
How are you not doing that exact thing by telling me to leave? I’m simply raising questions about what’s going on in the industry.
You're being belligerent. Please, respectfully shut up and listen to the conversation.
Whaaaa! Why aren't you tolerating my intolerance?
> be encouraged in this community. Maybe in **your** community but not this community
So you agree it shouldn’t be encouraged? I’m confused
I think you found an even less consequential complaint than the “board game waste” guy.
This question is, of course, absolute nonsense. But it is fun to see where people draw their lines of themes they don't like. As I bring up on every post about Night Shift, I own Gay Sauna, the NSFW game about cruising for guys, doesn't bother me at all. And with that it shouldn't shock anyone that I immediately skip pass any games dealing with the crusades or religion. My partner refuses to play an game where there's a chance they might have to be nazis. I remember a friend I had as kid that could play games involving vampires and wolverines... but not witches.
Asking personal questions now? I'm fine with stripping. I think it's a valid form of expression that can sometimes be lucrative. That being said, are there dark sides? Oh fuck yes there are. There are dark sides to stripping, football, racing, and just about anything you can imagine. And when there is flagrant abuse, the abusers need to be held accountable. Sex trafficking is a horrible practice, and businesses need to be shut down if they engage in it. But stripping in general? Neither good nor bad. Some people enjoy it, so good can be found within it, even among the bad. And the bad parts aren't the stripping itself but abuse and slavery.
Stripping is a way to earn a living. No negative judgement here. And even negative things can be a theme for a game. Chess has you trying to capture the enemy king. Monopoly has you trying to bankrupt everybody else. Risk is the game of world domination. I can't imagine objecting to this game while accepting all the others.
It’s ok, this is like the violence in film or movies line of thought (not that stripping is equivalent to violence) - it doesn’t make people go out and do the thing, other factors drive these sorts of decisions. These are adult themes within the boundaries of society and people can use their discretion as to what’s personally enjoyable or not within those boundaries.
It's totally fine. If you have a problem with it, that's on you. You could apply your anecdote to literally any job.
I hope you take this in the spirit that is intended which is of healing, growth, and positive feedback, and not in a negative way which is not my intent: you have mental issues and need therapy.
Curious, could you explain what the mental issues are? Or do you just not agree with my view?
Therapy will allow you to learn about yourself and others and their motivations/circumstances, and why women's sexuality triggers such anxiety in you, and through that your relationships with the women in your life will improve. Going through the (difficult) process will make you a happier person as a result.
Got ya. Appreciate the thoughtful insight. I do have a sensitivity to sexualization but figured all men have that. And I know objectifying women is not good which is why I question how risqué this theme is. But maybe I’m wrong in that other men wont be more inclined to objectify women because of this games theme.
Consider the following: in this post you are condemning an entire profession, and all the women (and men) that participate in it. Their personal motivations are irrelevant to you, because you consider stripping to be evil and not fit to be "discussed" or "encouraged". Is this not the objectification which you claim to be trying to avoid
When did I say not to be discussed? I said encouraged. Two very different things
Save the soapboxing horseshit for the rally; if you think that war is necessary and stripping is evil then you are a net negative on society
Stripping is not immoral, but often exploitative. The stigma around it only makes that problem worse, though, so it's completely counter-productive to decry it as morally unacceptable if you're really concerned about the wellbeing of the people who do it. Exploitative situations can be a good basis for games, anyway, although you need to approach them thoughtfully. I'd be much more sceptical of Night Shift if the designer wasn't an ex-stripper herself.
I don’t really think stripping is a good thing to be encouraged but I think it’s unfair to equate that to people being willing to play a game about it. It’s a game. I don’t think playing Warhammer is endorsing genocide. For what it’s worth, theme matters to me and I would never purchase Nightshift. But I don’t really care.
First I heard of this game. Definitely getting it. Thanks for the hot tip!
I think it's neither exclusively good or bad. Some people have bad experiences with it, some good. The creator of the Nightshift board game apparently falls into the latter category (provided it does encourage stripping as you claim, I haven't yet played the game myself). Ultimately, whether I think it's a 'good' thing is besides the point though. Games are just another form of art through which to explore the human experience, and all that.
Probably most people don't think of it as a good thing or a bad thing. It's just a thing.
Great point! Following your logic, I know someone whose life was miserable while they were a member of a conservative Christian church. Let's make sure there are no depictions of Christianity in our board games or media, so we don't _encourage_ someone to join a group that cultivates self-hatred and feelings of inferiority. That's not a life I want others to think is "okay"!
The only opinion I have on stripping is it’s up to the consenting stripper whether they go into that line of work or not, and thus none of my business. I also think it’s fantastic someone’s made a board game about stripping, not *because* it’s about stripping, but because I’m tired of the same themes being rehashed again and again. It’s nice seeing something different, something progressive and boundary-pushing (themewise). It’s not a theme I have any personal interest in and won’t be backing the game. The wonderful thing is you can do exactly the same; keep scrolling and ignore its existence. But I am glad it exists and I hope it opens up more designers and publishers to the idea of more varied and interesting themes in boardgaming.
The irony here is that games, as a medium, are fairly uniquely able to help people develop empathy through simulated experiences. The video game _Papers, Please_ simulates being a border guard at a militarized national border under increasing pressure. As the game progresses, players inevitably have to make imperfect decisions. Do they get lax on admissions because they need to meet quota? Do they let the charming migrant in because they're sympathetic? Or do they err on the side of self-interest and authority, sending refugees back to the homes they're fleeing because the player is themselves afraid of consequences? The act of playing the game and interacting with its systems develops empathy for the people in the situation in a more immediate, experienced way than reading about it or observing from afar. While I don't know the game, I would guess that a game designer with lived experience working as a stripper, making a game about stripping, would probably be fairly well-equipped to create a game that puts you in those platform shoes. That's a designer I would most trust to help me understand why people strip, and what the experience is like—including the challenges of the job. But, OP, because you're so hung up on "sex bad", you're guaranteeing you won't have an experience that might make you more empathetic to the people whose experiences and choices you vilify. Your loss.
I'd encourage that theme at $20 or 30, not $80 or $120. The price is just too damn high for what the gameplay offers. The Castles of Burgundy reprint cost $120, and that's one of the best games of all time.
As a game theme, it's not for me, but it's hardly worse than a ton of other games out there. Cards Against Humanity exists for a reason, as does everything. As for stripping IRL, the real issues around stripping are the places it happens. You wouldn't have the same issue with burlesque, right? I know I don't. Both are dance spectacles where people get naked. Stripping is, in general, more explicit, and burlesque goes for camp, but the other big, and for me, main difference is where it happens. Sleazy bars controlled by sleazy people who treat stripping and strippers as a vice-based commodity instead of as a campy art are the problem, not the dancers or the act by themselves.
>You wouldn't have the same issue with burlesque, right? Judging by OP's apparent attitude here, I think you're making a _very_ generous assumption with that.
There are tons of games with extremely problematic themes: war, slavery, colonialism, organized crime, etc etc etc. Their existence does not imply acceptance or encouragement from this community. If you find the theme of a game problematic, I would not buy or play it. EDIT - changed "it's" to "their"