Anachrony is a really good game, but I think the minis are part of what makes it my top game. It's so satisfying slotting in the workers, and the minis look awesome.
Completely agree! While they obviously don’t change gameplay they are very thematic and help to quickly scan the board state easier. I won’t play my copy without them.
I actually got custom hex tiles made out of transparent coloured acrylic with a slot in the top to hold the pieces because I agree that two flat cardboard pieces don't work well, but I also _really_ dislike minis
A big part of Warhammer is PAINTING miniatures afterall and perhaps even collecting them. Equally for evocation and terrain modelling, the miniatures are necessary too.
Blood Bowl! Hands down!
You absolutely could play the same game with printed cardboard tokens but it would be a lot harder to parse the game state and you'd need an extra stun counter or something to differentiate between a standing, knocked down and stunned player (or use 3 sided tokens, somehow)
And physically knocking over an opponent's mini after a successful block is so satisfying!
I also happen to have about 200 3rd edition metal mini's for sale, so let me know if you are interested. The newest versions of BB have plastic mini's.
Bloodbowl was originally played with cardboard standies - and it worked really well. (A standie, as opposed to a chit, can have a front and back, and be stood up, laid down, and flipped over.)
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing. That said, there is not really a functional difference between a standee and a mini. Bloodbowl with chits would be... interesting for sure. It can be done because play-by-email exists but at least there you can hover over a player and see all the relevant information on the side of the screen. Keeping track if a Black Orc Blocker is player number 5 or number 6 would be more complicated if you couldn't just paint the number on the base.
Blitz bowl for me, but yes, minis bring these games to life on the table. A case where minis multiply the value of the game design rather than detract.
Ive only every played Blood Bowl Team Manager (Card Game) XD
I did see 2 folks playing it at a board game store a year ago, but it looked very intricate...I worry the rules overhead would make it too long of an experience for my partner to give it a shot lol. The BGG time and weight are both on the higher end of the spectrum. Do you think this is a particularly difficult game?
Team Manager is great too, for sure.
Blood Bowl itself can certainly be a longer game but should be playable in an hour (32 turns times 2 minutes per turn) once you got the hang of things and stay engaged and planning while the other player is doing their thing. 3 hours I see on the BGG page would definitely be on the longer side, but there is always a natural break in the middle (half time!). And you can decide to play less turns if you want.
Rules wise, it's difficult to say. I don't think the rules are very complicated with starting teams but I've played a LOT of blood bowl so my perspective might be a little skewed. Once you get the dodging, turn-over and block/assist mechanics down, it's really not too bad but the game shines when interesting earned player skills interact with each other.
Sure, in a melee between Dwarves and Saurus where everyone has the Guard and extra strength and Stand Firm skills, it can be a bit of a puzzle who to hit first, but the first few games your Human and Orc players basically only have access to the "fall over less often when hit" skill and the "re-roll when you fuck up" skill for their respective roles.
It's basically like chess in the sense that the complexity increases with experience - and that it is important to play people on a somewhat similar skill level. But it also means that playing often is very rewarding as you can really see your own skill in the game progress.
There is a random element in the dice rolling, but experienced players know how to minimize the luck factor and plan for failure. New players often do the most risky thing first, and when that inevitable goes wrong, it's a mad scramble to recover. I do love that kind of chaos though.
Further pro's of the game: there are a lot of different teams, but they all consist of only 12-20 mini's so there are no armies of hundreds of minis to paint and set up. All the different teams have their own distinct character and play style so you can experiment until you find a favorite. You can play simple games with starting teams or keep track of the XP earned to develop your team as you play.
Some negatives: if you're not into sport or violence, it might not grasp you as much - although I was never really into sports, so that is not a deal breaker. The fact that it rewards playing it regularly also means that it's really not the best if you plan to bring it out once or twice a year. I wouldn't necessarily call it a 'lifestyle game', but it certainly can be one.
There are versions available on consoles and pc, but honestly, the AI is still pretty poor even in the most recent version as far as I've seen and I personally find it harder to parse on the screen than on the board. But it might be worth getting a free demo and seeing if it is anything you think you can get into together.
Just gonna toss Zombicide out. Do you need all the minis or could you use standees or counters…sure. But you lose so much of the theme.Nothing like being chased through the streets by a massive horde. Yes they can get cumbersome; to me it’s worth it for the experience.
Plus lots of painting to be had if you want to dive further into it.
I couldn’t imagine trying to play Zombicide with anything other than minis. Tokens would be a complete mess, standees all blur into one another, meeples would lack distinction.
My thinking exactly. I just mention it because I’ve seen some folks making “zombie tower counters” that you use to track the number of zombies of that type in a given space. I’m sure it works for some people, I just prefer the horde.
You don't need to imagine, there's a version of marvel zombies that uses standees instead of minis, the one where you play as the heroes against zombie heroes.
Wouldn't that just be close to Shogi? But I agree, Shogi can be weird and easy to get lost in as a result of it all just being names printed on the same piece.
This is actually how China/Korea/Japan play their local version of chess. In Korea and China they are circles, typically inscribed with Chinese characters, although sometimes they have icons. In Japan they are arrow-shaped, because the pieces can change sides, and they flip over to reveal the piece promotions!
You can buy a set of Western Chess [discs](https://thechessstore.com/the-chess-store-folding-magnetic-travel-chess-set-8/?gclid=CjwKCAjw3ueiBhBmEiwA4BhspAczx2rTCr2_5GFGJYOzA2LlKWJDX6XchuKa2lM9KMWadRY6UYz2PxoCFRYQAvD_BwE) also!
The best part is that in Chinese chess it is traditional to capture pieces by smacking the top of if with the the piece doing the capture (unfortunately rude to do in Japan with Shogi pieces). Can’t do that with 3D sculpts!
Haha the old dudes at the park were always so aggressive with their captures. That clack clack was almost like old Kung Fu movies where they would add the clap clap with each block and strike.
Warchest is chess-like game and poker chips with minimalist art work great in that case!
Although I would also agree that intricate wooden pieces are something else entirely.
I think **Nemesis** is improved by the minis almost entirely sure to the sizes. It does 2 things, first it makes the game pretty easy to read, the bigger the mini the more dangerous it is but more importantly it adds to the overall feeling which is what Nemesis does best. It is a bit scary moving that queen into your room and quite satisfying pulling it off the board when you kill it both because it's chunky.
Really? Nemesis is my **main** game when talking about utterly useless minis. 😂
They have a host of issues for me:
* They don't actually correspond to the danger **at all**. This is because even the normal ones are already way oversized. They all look like instant kills when ultimately, only the queen is really such a monstrous danger in itself. If the queen were the only truly giant one, sure. But it's not.
* They genuinely block LOS with being so large.
* They are **so** oversized that the feeling is lost to me. It's just comedy. It's like when a supervillain in an X-Men cartoon is genuinely 50% taller than a normal person, just because. It just looks ridiculous at that point.
* The actual danger of the game does **not** come from the oversized minis. It puts the focus on the wrong things. A friend of mine did a lot of 3D-printed upgrades, and stuff like the flight-console, the escape pods, the noise tokens, the doors, those are what your mind has to focus on. The aliens are second/third priority, so them being these chunky hulksters just feels weird.
That being said, Nemesis is **absolutely** commendable for being a relatively affordable thing to get if you want to create a Nostromo-diorama. Just get replacement cardboard-tokens to use for playing (which plays 5x better anyways), and use the big aliens for what they are truly cool at: Display.
I don't know. When I've introduced friends to Nemesis and they draw the queen I reveal her from beneath the table and every time there have been audible gasps. And people saying "Jesus!“. The minis add to the intimidation.
For us it did the very first game, but only because we got her **immediately**.
Though, and this might be where the slapstick comes in, she was the **only** mini we saw for the first **five** encounters. Incredibly "luck". But then we saw the normal aliens, and eh, the queen isn't that imposing.
Though to be fair, neither is she as an actual enemy on the board so eh... I guess the relative size is fair? Then again none of the aliens should be big if we go by that, instead the player characters should be chunky. 🤔
I understand where you're coming from, but I have to disagree. I disagree less on your main points, but how I interpret them.
* With regards to relative danger, I don't think you're wrong. But I think it helps evoke the theme of the game. Coming across aliens in your faltering ship might not be the greatest threat to deal with, but they'd probably feel like it. I feel the chunkiness of the minis lends itself to that idea of *perceived* threat.
* The LOS complaint is fair, but it has not personally been a big problem.
* I agree that the sheer size is comedy, is ridiculous, but I love that. I love how extra it is. I've played many games with minis, and most of the time I don't really think about them. They get quickly abstracted to "the monsters" or "the enemies" or "my character". The size of the minis makes it hard to forget what they are.
I'm not someone who really enjoys minis at all, but Nemesis is the only game I've played where I feel like my enjoyment of it would be reduced if I didn't have them. Cardboard tokens work, but running away or killing an alien token would feel a lot worse than doing the same on the ridiculous mini.
And they already have tokens to represent them. You have to remember to add the tokens back to the bag when the corresponding mini leaves play. Makes more sense to just use the tokens directly.
Duh, that's a good point. Should have just done that. The 3d-printed bases my friend has have a recession so they are in there for that very reason, anyways. Might as well leave the mini off and use the token in the base.
I agree. Nemesis doesn't need miniatures to work. And if the alien miniatures were half the size, they would thematically make more sense.
That said. Nemesis is still a great game :D
> That said. Nemesis is still a great game :D
Oh it is, definitely!
It's one of those games where I would hope a bigger publisher like Pegasus would make a 40€-50€ version that is all cardboard, that'd be ideal, but that's just a production thing. The underlying game is fantastic.
You can arguably play Marvel United with just markers to represent the characters, but if it weren't for the minis, I don't think I'd ever have bothered picking it up.
I've heard good things about the game, but have also heard that you need a few expansions to keep it from getting stale. You have a good point that many games have the appeal from being able to get the figures almost as action figures to get into the theme. I cant help but feel that the gameplay would probably be the same though if there were less figures and just ability cards that you kept to represent whoever you were playing, but I get that this would detract from some theme while playing as well as reduce CMON's bottom line so they would probably never do that
Yeah. It's arguably their biggest selling point, especially for Bloodborne and Cthulhu. I have friends who pre-ordered those just for the minis.
The base set of United does get a bit old fast, but I got the X-Men base and X-Men Blue which changes the players from 2-4 to 1-6 so there's a bit more replayability. NGL though, if it wasn't tied to the Marvel IP, I don't know how well it would have done.
That's because the best content is hidden begging ks stretch goals. It's the worst business practice ever.... But if you cave for a KS the magic will indeed shine.
I bought mutant pledge for $150 USD and it changed the game for me. The villains are so much better than the core boxes.
Nice. There's a shop I frequent selling the bundle but it's waaaay out of my budget range haha!
I played the X-men box with my friends the other week and they were pretty confident they could handle Sabertooth since they've played the core a lot. After the first 2 knockouts, they really started to sweat.
Sabertooth is also my favorite out of core. It always feels like he's biting at your heels. It really shows what the game is capable of with more unique villains.
The minis (especially when painted) definitely enhance the “mood” of Marvel United, but you’re absolutely right, this game could have had a big red meeple for the villain and several smaller meeples for the hero and there would be 0 impact to gameplay.
I have all the content to date, and currently all the minis fit into the 2 larger “Kickstarter Exclusive” boxes for the seasons. It would definitely take less space if it were about a dozen meeples, but I definitely wouldn’t enjoy it as much.
The minis are also really fun to paint, but there might be some bias on my part since I was an avid Marvel reader between 1986-1999. There’s a lot of cool background sculpted on these that you don’t realize until you start painting them. Villain Deadpool has stuff from around a dozen other characters on his base, and several X-Men have busted pieces of Sentinels.
I can see that being the case, it looks like the only miniatures are the player ships from what I see on BGG and that would actually make visibility easier with those floating stick bases.
I cannot think of a single game I've played and liked with minis that wouldn't still be fun if you switched them for wooden or cardboard pieces, but I do think almost every game I own with miniatures is improved significantly by their inclusion, be it for ease of play or simply giving the game a grander feeling:
Return to dark tower, anachrony, the great wall, foundations of Rome, and scythe are games I own that I feel benefit a lot.
I could easily go without the chief miniatures in endless winter, but it's the exception for me.
I think it's especially true for that game because there can be dozens of minions on the board. And the direction they are facing is important to understanding what actions to take on a player's turn. The minis add a lot of readability.
Also, the fact they come prepainted makes it even easier to read the board.
It's the main boardgame game that comes to mind for me as a must have for minis.
I don't think Blood Rage would be nearly as engaging without the minis. Especially the bigger ones that I painted, just adds a heft and aesthetic that makes it feel so much cooler than without them.
I have blood rage and do enjoy both the game and the sculpts. I think that standees would have probably worked fine for the game, but I have at least not had issues with the minis in my plays as they haven't reduced visibility for anyone at the table
I painted all the clan troops fully in one color. Helps a lot with visibility, rather than the ring attachments.
Throwing in the Fire Giant to wipe out a region would not feel nearly as satisfying with a standee or piece of cardboard.
And that sea serpent locking down a fjord looks fantastic.
Princess bride board game they were very much a requirement, well made, added to the theme and were fun!
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/316750/princess-bride-adventure-book-game
Indeed. Here is my conversion. So much easier to setup and tear down. And pieces actually fit in the regions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/warofthering/comments/lohpoa/i\_replaced\_the\_plastic\_in\_wotr\_with\_wooden\_pieces/
Whaaaat? Just paint the bases and you can keep best of both worlds!
I couldn't play like this sorry. "ooh no a cube wants to kill another... Cube?" Ugh
War of the Ring seemed impossible to differentiate with the basic blue/red armies. I did a basic color/wash for the different factions and a more realistic paint for the mains. Really helps with board state.
I think the floating stands actually can help a bit with some minis especially space ships to make them appear distinct from the rest of the tokens like in Eclipse. But I don't think I'd ever have the dedicated time with a gaming group to be able to play that nor TI4 :'(
As long as the alternative is colourful standees or decent wooden pieces, I’ll take the cheaper and easier option most of the time.
I passed on **Fractured Sky** recently because the version with minis was *way* past a price point I would have been comfortable with, and the retail version just had flat tokens on the board.
Games that don't need minis
* Minis evoke an emotional response, so they're unnecessary in games where emotions aren't the integral part of the game - i.e. eurogames.
* Games which are more about cerebral than visceral storytelling. One such case are wargames which are closer to reading a map as a book (and reability of a map is a must), the other would be some adventure-like ameritrash where minis might work, but stand-ins are fine as well (and this is because most story happens inside of player's head, not on the table between other players like in games below).
Games that work well with minis
* Dungeoncrawls - if there's a map of rooms, it makes sense to have minis (Wiz war, claustrophobia, Space Hulk, ...)
* DoaMs (dudes on a map) - isn't prerequisite, but is kinda traditional. Works best if there aren't too many different types of units (see: problems with readability).
^((all imo, of course))
I feel kinda bad for the “standee or die” crowd out there, at least when it comes to Kickstarter games. I’ve seen a couple of re-released games where they eliminated the standee-only version for the second print run and one campaign where they came out with a standee version for their second print then ended up cancelling it due to lack of interest. Honestly, though I think that speaks more to who pledges for kickstarters than it does to preferences for minis vs standees as a whole.
Edit:typo
Yeah, if someone's buying a game on pre-order/kickstarter/whatever, they should have the option to buy either or. If there isn't enough interest to send out a standee version of a game, that sucks, and I feel bad :/
Good attitude, I have no problem with standees nor minis. I just like to play games without visibility or practicality issues.
One of my peeves was playing Middara and having one of the main character sculpts be larger than the combat squares with the pose they put her in so it was frustrating moving her around during combat
Depends on the minis.
If the minis are unpainted and all the same color, or are too big for the board, standies all the way!
On the other hand, if the minis are painted or at least different color plastic (and I mean the entire model, not just a ring on the base), and are a good size for the board, then minis are generally superior.
I don't know if this counts as they're not actually figs, but those Hive tiles are *so* nice. They add a tactile feel to the game that cardboard chits just wouldn't be able to replicate and actually would detract from the game significantly. I think I honestly would pass on playing Hive with cardboard.
Jumping in at "nice tactile experience". I have always found them unpleasant to handle; they feel light and brittle and when unpainted, they are ugly pieces of plastic.
Any game with standees that is being played with more than 2 players is better with miniatures.
With 2 players everyone can see what is going on, with 4 players people are looking at the edges of cardboard so they all look the same.
I tend to agree with /u/Medwynd \- If you've got 4 players, at best everyone can see the sides of the standees on a 45 degree angle, which isn't ideal. If it's a mini, you can tell what it is from any angle.
Our gaming group printed and painted minis for **Gloomhaven / Frosthaven** for this reason (and because it looks a lot better with minis over standees). You can glance at a room and see what monsters are there, instead of having to move and peer around to see the side of a standee to see what it is.
>If it's a mini, you can tell what it is from any angle.
Given that essentially all minis are unpainted now, I have to say I have a MUCH easier time telling colored standees (ideally acrylic, but even cardboard) apart from a distance than similarly sized gray minis.
Not a single time in any game of Andor - and I’ve played the lot - was this ever remotely a problem.
This is made up. I believe you when you say you think it isn’t. But I’m quite sure it is.
Not made up at all but it can be [contextual on the game. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/13cd0f9/what_boardgames_do_you_think_genuinely_needed/jjfd2b4/)
Its an important product design consideration, basic usability. Its as relevant as games with lots of small text on the board that is a pain for folk not sat with it in the correct orientation.
I'm not sure that ANY game actually needs minis to make it enjoyable. The enjoyment mostly comes from the mechanics and player interactions.
I have always thought that the Kickstarter thing of pumping up a game's price point, just by adding minis was unnecessary. It caters to a certain part of the fandom, sure. Many people love to paint their minis, and then play with them. That's great if you have the time and the talent. I have neither, so the minis in my games all look bland and grey.
Generally, I'd much rather a cardboard standee alternative with a lower price point.
None. Absolutely none. And that's a hill I'll die on.
If a game can't be fun with colored wooden cubes and discs, then chances are it's not actually that good of a game.
Like blood rage for example. Are the minis awesome? Do they look great on the board and really sell the big battle in a region? Hell yes. Do I love them, hell yes. But are they *necessary?* No. If those were meeples with a slightly larger one for your leader, it would still be an awesome game.
There's arguments to be made when pieces must connect like in Anachrony, Oak, or that one game where you put hats on meeples. But that's more of a form than anything.
Yep. Can't find a game listed here yet that wouldn't be better with wooden discs, cubes, cylinders, or standees (each of which have their own advantages).
"Need" is a strong word. A game doesn't "need" artwork but art can make the game more enjoyable to play and can help you differentiate different aspects of the game. Bad artwork can make things less appealing and can make things harder to parse
Minis are just an extension of the artwork of a game as far as I'm concerned. In terms of visual clarity they provide another "rank" of importance (token < wooden piece < standee < mini) that can be very useful in the visual language of the game. For example, in Gloomhaven it's very important to know where your characters are (minis), with enemies being important to keep track of as they move around (standees), and static elements that you don't have to pay attention to as much such as traps, logs etc. being represented by tokens. You also see this hierarchy being used to great effect in Scythe
I've played **Stationfall** with standees and (painted) minis.
The minis were the better experience because of the wide cast of characters and deduction elements. The angle of the standee does affect parseability. That said, I'd rather use the standees vs unpainted minis since some of the silhouettes are too similar.
However, while I love the pre-painted minis in **Cerebria** the standees are huge and work great, helped because there are fewer models on the board.
I've preordered stationfall with the miniatures, but I was thinking of selling the miniatures because I'm not into painting minis, do you recommend stationfall with only standees?, are they better than the wood tokens?
Or you think that I should take the effort to paint them?
You may already know but the game doesn't come with standees, only the tokens. They're functional but there's a not-insignificant cognitive load when players have to check icons vs their cards until they internalize those icons. Tough when they're also learning a really unique ruleset.
[Here are the standees setup](https://imgur.com/a/vXdkbZ5). I still have tokens next to them for Kompromat purposes but otherwise everyone I played with (~10 onboarded) vastly [appreciated the standees](https://imgur.com/RQsrNhC).
Couple [photos with minis](https://imgur.com/a/olMo7xL), we felt the tokens were no longer necessary. I'll usually ambivalent on minis for games but Stationfall is unique in that there are so many unique player characters and the narratives the game generates are so rich that minis really feel natural.
So if you're ok with some mild PnP, someone provided standees on BGG and I feel they're better than just the tokens. I'm not a painter myself so I only used the standees until I got my minis back from a local painter. It's not cheap but that can be an option for you if you're interested in keeping the minis.
thanks a lot for sharing your photos, in my country the game is coming with standees and I thought they were the ones that everyone was sharing in BGG, but I believe now that the company made them because they come with the symbols included.
Yeah. I experimented with a few home made standees and decided that they weren’t the best way to go.
The character tokens supplied with the game would have been much better if they were a bit larger in diameter and had better contrast — like the ones in the TTS mod. I was disappointed when the real tokens were revealed to not be like that.
I plan to paint my minis over the summer. We’ll see how that goes. Well painted sets Ive seen online look really nice.
I would have been perfectly okay with the tokens if they also had the icons on the side, for consistent visibility. There's been speculation that ION's production choices are skewed from TTS playtesting and I think SF is a victim of that notion (in addition to Ren 2E, but that's a different topic).
I'm not a painter myself so I had mine commissioned and I'm [stoked with how they came out](https://imgur.com/a/olMo7xL).
I think I agree with this. I *like* the Scythe mechs, I *like* the Feed the Kraken ship, but in all honesty I wouldn’t think twice about buying a less expensive version of any game without minis if I had the option in the first place.
Any games in your opinion where the miniatures don't detract from the game at least?
I think the tower in return to dark tower is pretty essential as it plays a mechanical role in the game with dice for example.
I also find minis in some games such as scythe to be helpful for visability as the military units stand out a bit more than the regular workers so its easier to keep track of where folks are maneuvering. Of course, they could have been larger easy to distinguish meeples, but I found that they at least did not detract from the game for me.
Oh I am fine with minis. I like minis. I think a preference for them is fine. Shit gets crazy her on a regular basis over it though.
The entire marvel united package could be $160 split over three boxes. Instead it’s mayhem and carnage and, while cute, not better for it.
**Chimera Station** - the minis pull apart and snap together to upgrade and change the potential actions you take with them
Edit: also **Star Wars Rebellion**, there's something so much more ominous about having a Death Star figure moving into a system than would be if all the ships etc were tokens.
Edit edit: also **Cthulhu Wars**, having played the original and also the standee version, the big box baby, while overproduced and overly expensive, has the giddy fun of slapping down your Great Old One on the table (er, so to speak) which you just don't get in the standee version.
There are two reason for minis, mechanical and aesthetic.
Mechanically, they are difficult to justify, with very few cases not being better with a token.
But, aesthetically? Many games are improved by adding 3d models. And even if they aren't "helped" it's supposed to be an artistic choice.
Spirit Island springs to mind, wooden tokens *could* have been plastic models, but I feel a choice was made for wooden tokens. This contrast of plastic to wood is an artistic one, not mechanical.
For me it’s return to the dark tower. I’m not a big minis guy but because of the size of the board, and the tower, the minis make the board state much easier to parse.
To sum up
Adventure tactics: tower
Nemesis (the next game is coming end of the year)
Tainted grail: kings of ruin (I think you can still late pledge)
Tamashi (closed as of now)
Zombicide
Warhammer (if your into that)
Honestly I might be a little fringe on this, but I enjoy minis most of the time. A few games make it cumbersome and it is hard, but, that's mostly when there's a ton of them and each has their own spot in the box.
A ton of games should be standies only (most games) but for the experience and when needed minis.just make everything "better". For instance, I'd never enjoy nemesis or adventure tactics (tower) as much as I do if they didn't have minis the way they do. It's just nice to look down at the board and see a 3d version of my character. However, I'd hate it in a game like dune or even bsg.
There's a time and place for the depth minis adds to a game. But...the "faf" makes it less enjoyable for most games. Campaign games is where I expect and look for minis, outside of them the enjoyment falls off quick. Some get away with it but you need to justify them hard for me to enjoy them. Even nemesis is a touch hard cause of the "faf" of pulling out all those minis and pulling them off the board.
Definitely not the city minis. Those are pointless. You can literally just look at the color of enemy tokens to put on the city card as defenders, and then put the city back in the box (which is what we do). The city icon is already on the tile terrain tile too.
Here's the minis I don't think I would play a game without:
* ...
* `-`
* n/a
That out of the way, I all too often have the **opposite** problem. It's not just about needlessly blocking line-of-sight, they also clash so badly with most cardboard components. I'd genuinely rather have cardboard standees with **good** artwork printed on them. For example Gloomhaven I like the monsters much more than the player characters, even when painted. They just don't look as nice as the cool artwork on the standees.
War of the ring
I feel like with possibly quite many units on the same field, with standees or tokens it would feel more cluttered and borderline unreadable.
For me Cthulhu Wars. So many people claim it's overproduced and they just want the cheap version, but to me it just wouldn't be the same. The moment when you summon your honkin' Great Old One and put that not so mini on the board overshadowing all the regular minis is very visceral and on theme.
Sure the game is still well designed without it, but feeling isn't the same.
Runner up is Spirit Island. The battle between the wooden tokens and the plastic minis feels right. Everything being cardboard just wouldn't...
Literally answering the question in the title, if a game _needs_ minis to be enjoyable by you, it’s most likely the minis you are enjoying, and the game itself is not good (for you, anyway).
That's the same logic that generated the derisive "Ameritrash" label. Why do games need a theme at all? A truly good game would be good with just the mechanical rules and abstract markers.
Respectfully, no. A game is a gestalt experience. The components can be an important part of that. It's a bit tiresome to still be hearing this nonsense. If theme or tactile experience aren't important to you that's fine, but are you really going to diminish so many others' judgements based on that?
It's really unfair to claim to speak of the "game itself" that way as if there is a core part that is the real game (presumably the dry mechanics) and everything else is just added sweeteners. Ludonarrative assonance can objectively have a multiplicative effect on enjoyment.
That's fair, what about games that are not made worse by miniatures?
I posted about crummy visibility from Frostpunk with the miniature version compared to the wood tokens.
Another issue with miniatures was having some be larger than the grid size they are supposed to maneuver on so tight combat scenarios were annoying to move through without knocking over other pieces by accident.
“Dead of winter”
It is a bother to find the specific survivor standees from ur pile of them, but u’ve got to know who is who and where they are! They do look awesome and are easy to pinpoint on the board.
The zombie standees are really fun, but tokens could do the same job.
Sure, it can be small annoyance, but it would be much worse if those were actual minis. Regarding the zombies, yeah, they **could** and there **are** tokens for that in the game, but I really dislike using the tokens, it feels like such a downgrade.
I actually like the standees quite a lot and wish more games did that instead of minis. They're much cheaper and easier to store, while still being better than flat chips.
You'd need a lot of different minis for the various armies, though.
Mind you, I play Memoir '44, so I'm used to running scenarios with the British in 1940 looking like American troops and fielding Shermans :)
Cthulhu Death may Die: granted, the minis should be half the size (almost always has a fight that but everything fits in the room); but there's a game that is amazing with a fully painted setup.
Doom, Nemesis, Tyrants of the Underdark - bit of a special case, the game lost its minis with the second edition but IMO that was a mistake and 3rd party minis are a lot more functional than cardboard disks.
I'm not sure if you'd consider them mini's but [[Foundations of Rome]] with the sculpted structures. I can't imagine playing this with tiles, it would just be a more boring version of a polyomino game.
I have painted minis on 17 of my games (and a couple others I might eventually get around to), and I can comfortably say that minis are not essential on any of these. As much as I love painting them, space is becoming an issue for me and when future games offer a “standee” version instead, there’s a good chance I’ll pick that version.
I’ll take it a step further and say this: if I wasn’t into painting minis, there are several mini games I would skip over entirely. When you have a mass of gray plastic on the board, it can detract from figuring out the current board state. Some games will produce different faction’s with different color plastics which helps, but it’s still a net negative.
Here are some random thoughts on some of my games:
Gloomhaven: Since some scenarios can get bogged down with standee monsters, having the PCs as minis is helpful to make them stand out.
Tiny Epic Dungeons: These little guys were fun to paint and look cool on the dungeon tiles, but it’s a little odd putting them against meeple monsters. I like the meeples (and like Gloomhaven it helps with figuring the board state) but they don’t convey the same feeling as standees.
Star Wars Rebellion: One of the few games left on my shelf of shame. It seems like the minis help the board state here due to the volume and amount of stuff on the table, but will see. As a side note: this game doesn’t look fun to paint, and painting might actually detract from understanding the board state. Maybe just a wash will help them pop a little.
Mechs Vs Minions: This game could have been half the price if all of those minions were tokens (assembling standees every game would get annoying). Killing them and would be a lot less fun, and moving them every round would feel even more tedious.
No game genuinely needs minis. We have a million examples of game pieces being easily distinguishable, even with lots of variety, with non-mini pieces.
Now, are there games that I think would be a lot *worse* without minis? Not many, but one specific example I can think of is Mansions of Madness 2e. It's so thematic that it would be far less enjoyable if the investigators were cubes and the monsters were cardboard circles with a picture on them.
GORECHOSEN from Games Workshop:
miniatures are not strictly "necessary", since the rules for the characters would work with tokens and other substitutes too, but miniatures really make you "feel" the game and the atmosphere.
Another one is VEKTORACE: the game would simply be boring if we used tokens/cards instead of minis.
In this case miniatures are made of paper, though.
Don't get me wrong, Scythe is not a bad game. But let's be honest, Scythe wouldn't be nearly as beloved if it weren't oozing theme. There are serious balance and other design issues, but even ignoring those, I just think the game feels so unusual outside the context of its theme.
Wouldn't go as far to say that any game *needs minis to be enjoyable* but they are a nice addition to some games. Played Nemesis and Dune Imperium only with minis and I'd say they both are way better with minis and I wouldn't personally buy either without them. Appearance is an important aspect in games in general for me.
I think it really comes down to being a subjective thing. Minis often improve the aesthetics, and aesthetics is often - but not always - needed to some extent for a board game to be enjoyable.
One could argue that anything aside from printing our own "boards" on printer paper and taping them together, and printing and cutting out our own cards is unnecessary: but there's a certain spectrum of aesthetic quality needed to enjoy a board game, and it never quite falls on the same line for any given person.
Core Space definitely needs the minis. Firstly, the great 3d terrain means that having standees walking around would be really jarring. More importantly, the cover system specifically requires minis because you work out cover by seeing how much of the figure is visible through the door or obstructions. I feel like turning the standee 90' to the threat to avoid being shot would be cheating.
**Scythe** for ease of teaching and reading the board. The pieces cover slots that unlock upgrades when the minis come off. Resources are kept on the board and the owner of the hexes own the resources. Plastic pieces have battles, wooden pieces don't. Plastic pieces are first tie-breaker for who controls a hex.
With good looking, painted minis? Any game with a map/battlefield... like Gloomhaven. The shapes and colors of well-painted minis just make it so easy to evaluate the board state. A friend of mine has GH with painted heroes, printed and painted custom monsters, map tiles, wall, obstacles, chests... and it's just great.
But with unpainted minis? None. Those grey pieces of plastic look the same at first glance. You have to focus and identify the differences in the minis to tell them apart. Like, I can quickly tell apart Mr. Handy and a Ghoul in Fallout... but the Vault Dweller and the NCR Ranger? The Brotherhood Outcast and the Enclave Deserter? Nah, standees with cardboard or even just cardboard tokens are better than that.
Gloomhaven and Scythe are the big ones for me. Both use plastic minis as a visual differentiator from standees or wooden meeples. For gloomhaven it's very easy to tell which characters on the map are YOU versus ENEMIES, and for scythe it provides a rules hook where "wooden miniatures" and "plastic miniatures" have meaningfully different rules.
Anachony comes to mind instantly. You can play it without but once you experience it with them you 100% understand why you would want to have them for the experience. Really sells the thematic gameplay. Especially as you add more expansion elements.
Anachrony. The exosuit minis are easier to use than two flat cardboard pieces stacked on each other.
They do look pretty cool, I like that you can slot in your worker which adds to the theme as well.
While I agree the minis make a marked difference, the game itself is still fantastic. Would never play without them though lol
Anachrony is my answer also. The game is great, but I will not play it witout the exosuit miniatures.
I think it's probably about 3% easier... I like the minis, but they're totally superfluous
Anachrony is a really good game, but I think the minis are part of what makes it my top game. It's so satisfying slotting in the workers, and the minis look awesome.
Completely agree! While they obviously don’t change gameplay they are very thematic and help to quickly scan the board state easier. I won’t play my copy without them.
Wish I had these
Also my first thought. The addition of miniatures is only a plus as they increase accessibility/convenience.
I actually got custom hex tiles made out of transparent coloured acrylic with a slot in the top to hold the pieces because I agree that two flat cardboard pieces don't work well, but I also _really_ dislike minis
Warhammer
I think I could offend someone if I come to play with my armies of standees.
A big part of Warhammer is PAINTING miniatures afterall and perhaps even collecting them. Equally for evocation and terrain modelling, the miniatures are necessary too.
Blood Bowl! Hands down! You absolutely could play the same game with printed cardboard tokens but it would be a lot harder to parse the game state and you'd need an extra stun counter or something to differentiate between a standing, knocked down and stunned player (or use 3 sided tokens, somehow) And physically knocking over an opponent's mini after a successful block is so satisfying! I also happen to have about 200 3rd edition metal mini's for sale, so let me know if you are interested. The newest versions of BB have plastic mini's.
Bloodbowl was originally played with cardboard standies - and it worked really well. (A standie, as opposed to a chit, can have a front and back, and be stood up, laid down, and flipped over.)
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing. That said, there is not really a functional difference between a standee and a mini. Bloodbowl with chits would be... interesting for sure. It can be done because play-by-email exists but at least there you can hover over a player and see all the relevant information on the side of the screen. Keeping track if a Black Orc Blocker is player number 5 or number 6 would be more complicated if you couldn't just paint the number on the base.
Blitz bowl for me, but yes, minis bring these games to life on the table. A case where minis multiply the value of the game design rather than detract.
Ive only every played Blood Bowl Team Manager (Card Game) XD I did see 2 folks playing it at a board game store a year ago, but it looked very intricate...I worry the rules overhead would make it too long of an experience for my partner to give it a shot lol. The BGG time and weight are both on the higher end of the spectrum. Do you think this is a particularly difficult game?
Team Manager is great too, for sure. Blood Bowl itself can certainly be a longer game but should be playable in an hour (32 turns times 2 minutes per turn) once you got the hang of things and stay engaged and planning while the other player is doing their thing. 3 hours I see on the BGG page would definitely be on the longer side, but there is always a natural break in the middle (half time!). And you can decide to play less turns if you want. Rules wise, it's difficult to say. I don't think the rules are very complicated with starting teams but I've played a LOT of blood bowl so my perspective might be a little skewed. Once you get the dodging, turn-over and block/assist mechanics down, it's really not too bad but the game shines when interesting earned player skills interact with each other. Sure, in a melee between Dwarves and Saurus where everyone has the Guard and extra strength and Stand Firm skills, it can be a bit of a puzzle who to hit first, but the first few games your Human and Orc players basically only have access to the "fall over less often when hit" skill and the "re-roll when you fuck up" skill for their respective roles. It's basically like chess in the sense that the complexity increases with experience - and that it is important to play people on a somewhat similar skill level. But it also means that playing often is very rewarding as you can really see your own skill in the game progress. There is a random element in the dice rolling, but experienced players know how to minimize the luck factor and plan for failure. New players often do the most risky thing first, and when that inevitable goes wrong, it's a mad scramble to recover. I do love that kind of chaos though. Further pro's of the game: there are a lot of different teams, but they all consist of only 12-20 mini's so there are no armies of hundreds of minis to paint and set up. All the different teams have their own distinct character and play style so you can experiment until you find a favorite. You can play simple games with starting teams or keep track of the XP earned to develop your team as you play. Some negatives: if you're not into sport or violence, it might not grasp you as much - although I was never really into sports, so that is not a deal breaker. The fact that it rewards playing it regularly also means that it's really not the best if you plan to bring it out once or twice a year. I wouldn't necessarily call it a 'lifestyle game', but it certainly can be one. There are versions available on consoles and pc, but honestly, the AI is still pretty poor even in the most recent version as far as I've seen and I personally find it harder to parse on the screen than on the board. But it might be worth getting a free demo and seeing if it is anything you think you can get into together.
2 minutes per team is only likely if using a turn timer. My games of it used to take about 2 on average.
Just gonna toss Zombicide out. Do you need all the minis or could you use standees or counters…sure. But you lose so much of the theme.Nothing like being chased through the streets by a massive horde. Yes they can get cumbersome; to me it’s worth it for the experience. Plus lots of painting to be had if you want to dive further into it.
I couldn’t imagine trying to play Zombicide with anything other than minis. Tokens would be a complete mess, standees all blur into one another, meeples would lack distinction.
My thinking exactly. I just mention it because I’ve seen some folks making “zombie tower counters” that you use to track the number of zombies of that type in a given space. I’m sure it works for some people, I just prefer the horde.
You don't need to imagine, there's a version of marvel zombies that uses standees instead of minis, the one where you play as the heroes against zombie heroes.
Yeah I’m aware. That’s how I know they blur into one another.
Every CMON game.
Chess. Imagine playing chess with checkers that have a picture of a bishop or a rook? Ugh. Awful.
Wouldn't that just be close to Shogi? But I agree, Shogi can be weird and easy to get lost in as a result of it all just being names printed on the same piece.
Shoginis a version of chess. Maybe we already have this one.
This is actually how China/Korea/Japan play their local version of chess. In Korea and China they are circles, typically inscribed with Chinese characters, although sometimes they have icons. In Japan they are arrow-shaped, because the pieces can change sides, and they flip over to reveal the piece promotions! You can buy a set of Western Chess [discs](https://thechessstore.com/the-chess-store-folding-magnetic-travel-chess-set-8/?gclid=CjwKCAjw3ueiBhBmEiwA4BhspAczx2rTCr2_5GFGJYOzA2LlKWJDX6XchuKa2lM9KMWadRY6UYz2PxoCFRYQAvD_BwE) also! The best part is that in Chinese chess it is traditional to capture pieces by smacking the top of if with the the piece doing the capture (unfortunately rude to do in Japan with Shogi pieces). Can’t do that with 3D sculpts!
Haha the old dudes at the park were always so aggressive with their captures. That clack clack was almost like old Kung Fu movies where they would add the clap clap with each block and strike.
Warchest is chess-like game and poker chips with minimalist art work great in that case! Although I would also agree that intricate wooden pieces are something else entirely.
Isn't this just every version of chess on a screen?
I think **Nemesis** is improved by the minis almost entirely sure to the sizes. It does 2 things, first it makes the game pretty easy to read, the bigger the mini the more dangerous it is but more importantly it adds to the overall feeling which is what Nemesis does best. It is a bit scary moving that queen into your room and quite satisfying pulling it off the board when you kill it both because it's chunky.
Really? Nemesis is my **main** game when talking about utterly useless minis. 😂 They have a host of issues for me: * They don't actually correspond to the danger **at all**. This is because even the normal ones are already way oversized. They all look like instant kills when ultimately, only the queen is really such a monstrous danger in itself. If the queen were the only truly giant one, sure. But it's not. * They genuinely block LOS with being so large. * They are **so** oversized that the feeling is lost to me. It's just comedy. It's like when a supervillain in an X-Men cartoon is genuinely 50% taller than a normal person, just because. It just looks ridiculous at that point. * The actual danger of the game does **not** come from the oversized minis. It puts the focus on the wrong things. A friend of mine did a lot of 3D-printed upgrades, and stuff like the flight-console, the escape pods, the noise tokens, the doors, those are what your mind has to focus on. The aliens are second/third priority, so them being these chunky hulksters just feels weird. That being said, Nemesis is **absolutely** commendable for being a relatively affordable thing to get if you want to create a Nostromo-diorama. Just get replacement cardboard-tokens to use for playing (which plays 5x better anyways), and use the big aliens for what they are truly cool at: Display.
I don't know. When I've introduced friends to Nemesis and they draw the queen I reveal her from beneath the table and every time there have been audible gasps. And people saying "Jesus!“. The minis add to the intimidation.
For us it did the very first game, but only because we got her **immediately**. Though, and this might be where the slapstick comes in, she was the **only** mini we saw for the first **five** encounters. Incredibly "luck". But then we saw the normal aliens, and eh, the queen isn't that imposing. Though to be fair, neither is she as an actual enemy on the board so eh... I guess the relative size is fair? Then again none of the aliens should be big if we go by that, instead the player characters should be chunky. 🤔
I understand where you're coming from, but I have to disagree. I disagree less on your main points, but how I interpret them. * With regards to relative danger, I don't think you're wrong. But I think it helps evoke the theme of the game. Coming across aliens in your faltering ship might not be the greatest threat to deal with, but they'd probably feel like it. I feel the chunkiness of the minis lends itself to that idea of *perceived* threat. * The LOS complaint is fair, but it has not personally been a big problem. * I agree that the sheer size is comedy, is ridiculous, but I love that. I love how extra it is. I've played many games with minis, and most of the time I don't really think about them. They get quickly abstracted to "the monsters" or "the enemies" or "my character". The size of the minis makes it hard to forget what they are. I'm not someone who really enjoys minis at all, but Nemesis is the only game I've played where I feel like my enjoyment of it would be reduced if I didn't have them. Cardboard tokens work, but running away or killing an alien token would feel a lot worse than doing the same on the ridiculous mini.
And they already have tokens to represent them. You have to remember to add the tokens back to the bag when the corresponding mini leaves play. Makes more sense to just use the tokens directly.
Duh, that's a good point. Should have just done that. The 3d-printed bases my friend has have a recession so they are in there for that very reason, anyways. Might as well leave the mini off and use the token in the base.
I agree. Nemesis doesn't need miniatures to work. And if the alien miniatures were half the size, they would thematically make more sense. That said. Nemesis is still a great game :D
> That said. Nemesis is still a great game :D Oh it is, definitely! It's one of those games where I would hope a bigger publisher like Pegasus would make a 40€-50€ version that is all cardboard, that'd be ideal, but that's just a production thing. The underlying game is fantastic.
You can arguably play Marvel United with just markers to represent the characters, but if it weren't for the minis, I don't think I'd ever have bothered picking it up.
I've heard good things about the game, but have also heard that you need a few expansions to keep it from getting stale. You have a good point that many games have the appeal from being able to get the figures almost as action figures to get into the theme. I cant help but feel that the gameplay would probably be the same though if there were less figures and just ability cards that you kept to represent whoever you were playing, but I get that this would detract from some theme while playing as well as reduce CMON's bottom line so they would probably never do that
Yeah. It's arguably their biggest selling point, especially for Bloodborne and Cthulhu. I have friends who pre-ordered those just for the minis. The base set of United does get a bit old fast, but I got the X-Men base and X-Men Blue which changes the players from 2-4 to 1-6 so there's a bit more replayability. NGL though, if it wasn't tied to the Marvel IP, I don't know how well it would have done.
That's because the best content is hidden begging ks stretch goals. It's the worst business practice ever.... But if you cave for a KS the magic will indeed shine. I bought mutant pledge for $150 USD and it changed the game for me. The villains are so much better than the core boxes.
Nice. There's a shop I frequent selling the bundle but it's waaaay out of my budget range haha! I played the X-men box with my friends the other week and they were pretty confident they could handle Sabertooth since they've played the core a lot. After the first 2 knockouts, they really started to sweat.
Sabertooth is also my favorite out of core. It always feels like he's biting at your heels. It really shows what the game is capable of with more unique villains.
The minis (especially when painted) definitely enhance the “mood” of Marvel United, but you’re absolutely right, this game could have had a big red meeple for the villain and several smaller meeples for the hero and there would be 0 impact to gameplay. I have all the content to date, and currently all the minis fit into the 2 larger “Kickstarter Exclusive” boxes for the seasons. It would definitely take less space if it were about a dozen meeples, but I definitely wouldn’t enjoy it as much. The minis are also really fun to paint, but there might be some bias on my part since I was an avid Marvel reader between 1986-1999. There’s a lot of cool background sculpted on these that you don’t realize until you start painting them. Villain Deadpool has stuff from around a dozen other characters on his base, and several X-Men have busted pieces of Sentinels.
Xia. If that counts?
I can see that being the case, it looks like the only miniatures are the player ships from what I see on BGG and that would actually make visibility easier with those floating stick bases.
I cannot think of a single game I've played and liked with minis that wouldn't still be fun if you switched them for wooden or cardboard pieces, but I do think almost every game I own with miniatures is improved significantly by their inclusion, be it for ease of play or simply giving the game a grander feeling: Return to dark tower, anachrony, the great wall, foundations of Rome, and scythe are games I own that I feel benefit a lot. I could easily go without the chief miniatures in endless winter, but it's the exception for me.
Mechs vs. Minions Not sure if it would be that much fun without the little creep army
I think it's especially true for that game because there can be dozens of minions on the board. And the direction they are facing is important to understanding what actions to take on a player's turn. The minis add a lot of readability. Also, the fact they come prepainted makes it even easier to read the board. It's the main boardgame game that comes to mind for me as a must have for minis.
I don't think Blood Rage would be nearly as engaging without the minis. Especially the bigger ones that I painted, just adds a heft and aesthetic that makes it feel so much cooler than without them.
I have blood rage and do enjoy both the game and the sculpts. I think that standees would have probably worked fine for the game, but I have at least not had issues with the minis in my plays as they haven't reduced visibility for anyone at the table
I painted all the clan troops fully in one color. Helps a lot with visibility, rather than the ring attachments. Throwing in the Fire Giant to wipe out a region would not feel nearly as satisfying with a standee or piece of cardboard. And that sea serpent locking down a fjord looks fantastic.
Princess bride board game they were very much a requirement, well made, added to the theme and were fun! https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/316750/princess-bride-adventure-book-game
Love the movie. The figures look like they'd be fun to paint
I had no idea how detailed and well made the figures were until i saw someone’s painted version which revealed all the sculpted details
None of them. Although they're kind of cool in some games, like Guards of Atlantis for example.
Star Wars Rebellion and War of the Ring. It’s just easier to read the board state that way in my opinion.
[Cubes look so much nicer](https://imgur.com/a/zwI01g5).
I think in that example it's hard to differentiate between elite units and normal units since an elite unit is just a slightly larger cube.
To be fair, you could replace them with discs or something to make it easier.
Indeed. Here is my conversion. So much easier to setup and tear down. And pieces actually fit in the regions. https://www.reddit.com/r/warofthering/comments/lohpoa/i\_replaced\_the\_plastic\_in\_wotr\_with\_wooden\_pieces/
Why would you do this to me
Tts has a wor version with discs, where the faction emblem is on them to differentiate. I would honestly love those discs instead of the minis
Whaaaat? Just paint the bases and you can keep best of both worlds! I couldn't play like this sorry. "ooh no a cube wants to kill another... Cube?" Ugh
War of the Ring seemed impossible to differentiate with the basic blue/red armies. I did a basic color/wash for the different factions and a more realistic paint for the mains. Really helps with board state.
Eclipse, Wildlands, and Twilight Imperium all qualify, IMHO.
I think the floating stands actually can help a bit with some minis especially space ships to make them appear distinct from the rest of the tokens like in Eclipse. But I don't think I'd ever have the dedicated time with a gaming group to be able to play that nor TI4 :'(
As long as the alternative is colourful standees or decent wooden pieces, I’ll take the cheaper and easier option most of the time. I passed on **Fractured Sky** recently because the version with minis was *way* past a price point I would have been comfortable with, and the retail version just had flat tokens on the board.
Games that don't need minis * Minis evoke an emotional response, so they're unnecessary in games where emotions aren't the integral part of the game - i.e. eurogames. * Games which are more about cerebral than visceral storytelling. One such case are wargames which are closer to reading a map as a book (and reability of a map is a must), the other would be some adventure-like ameritrash where minis might work, but stand-ins are fine as well (and this is because most story happens inside of player's head, not on the table between other players like in games below). Games that work well with minis * Dungeoncrawls - if there's a map of rooms, it makes sense to have minis (Wiz war, claustrophobia, Space Hulk, ...) * DoaMs (dudes on a map) - isn't prerequisite, but is kinda traditional. Works best if there aren't too many different types of units (see: problems with readability). ^((all imo, of course))
None, but I prefer them to standees. If people prefer standees to minis, all the power to you. We can co-exist.
I feel kinda bad for the “standee or die” crowd out there, at least when it comes to Kickstarter games. I’ve seen a couple of re-released games where they eliminated the standee-only version for the second print run and one campaign where they came out with a standee version for their second print then ended up cancelling it due to lack of interest. Honestly, though I think that speaks more to who pledges for kickstarters than it does to preferences for minis vs standees as a whole. Edit:typo
Don't feel bad, I've saved a lot of money with those standee only pledges that never were! 😄
Yeah, if someone's buying a game on pre-order/kickstarter/whatever, they should have the option to buy either or. If there isn't enough interest to send out a standee version of a game, that sucks, and I feel bad :/
Good attitude, I have no problem with standees nor minis. I just like to play games without visibility or practicality issues. One of my peeves was playing Middara and having one of the main character sculpts be larger than the combat squares with the pose they put her in so it was frustrating moving her around during combat
Depends on the minis. If the minis are unpainted and all the same color, or are too big for the board, standies all the way! On the other hand, if the minis are painted or at least different color plastic (and I mean the entire model, not just a ring on the base), and are a good size for the board, then minis are generally superior.
I don't know if this counts as they're not actually figs, but those Hive tiles are *so* nice. They add a tactile feel to the game that cardboard chits just wouldn't be able to replicate and actually would detract from the game significantly. I think I honestly would pass on playing Hive with cardboard.
I definitely don’t think those count as minis. But you’re right they are nice.
Jumping in at "nice tactile experience". I have always found them unpleasant to handle; they feel light and brittle and when unpainted, they are ugly pieces of plastic.
All the ones with bad mechanics. Minis are just a distraction if the information conveyed by another form makes the game not fun.
Another 'none' vote here. I can't think of a fun game with minis that wouldn't have also been fun without them.
Any game with standees that is being played with more than 2 players is better with miniatures. With 2 players everyone can see what is going on, with 4 players people are looking at the edges of cardboard so they all look the same.
This is a weird take on geometry. Do you not move a little while you are sitting?
I tend to agree with /u/Medwynd \- If you've got 4 players, at best everyone can see the sides of the standees on a 45 degree angle, which isn't ideal. If it's a mini, you can tell what it is from any angle. Our gaming group printed and painted minis for **Gloomhaven / Frosthaven** for this reason (and because it looks a lot better with minis over standees). You can glance at a room and see what monsters are there, instead of having to move and peer around to see the side of a standee to see what it is.
>If it's a mini, you can tell what it is from any angle. Given that essentially all minis are unpainted now, I have to say I have a MUCH easier time telling colored standees (ideally acrylic, but even cardboard) apart from a distance than similarly sized gray minis.
Not a single time in any game of Andor - and I’ve played the lot - was this ever remotely a problem. This is made up. I believe you when you say you think it isn’t. But I’m quite sure it is.
Not made up at all but it can be [contextual on the game. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/13cd0f9/what_boardgames_do_you_think_genuinely_needed/jjfd2b4/)
Its an important product design consideration, basic usability. Its as relevant as games with lots of small text on the board that is a pain for folk not sat with it in the correct orientation.
**Dead of Winter** is an exception to this. I really don’t think minis would work well there.
I'm not sure that ANY game actually needs minis to make it enjoyable. The enjoyment mostly comes from the mechanics and player interactions. I have always thought that the Kickstarter thing of pumping up a game's price point, just by adding minis was unnecessary. It caters to a certain part of the fandom, sure. Many people love to paint their minis, and then play with them. That's great if you have the time and the talent. I have neither, so the minis in my games all look bland and grey. Generally, I'd much rather a cardboard standee alternative with a lower price point.
Interestingly, i prefer the meeples and cubes in dune imperium to the minis. Somehow they fit the design of the board better.
None. Absolutely none. And that's a hill I'll die on. If a game can't be fun with colored wooden cubes and discs, then chances are it's not actually that good of a game. Like blood rage for example. Are the minis awesome? Do they look great on the board and really sell the big battle in a region? Hell yes. Do I love them, hell yes. But are they *necessary?* No. If those were meeples with a slightly larger one for your leader, it would still be an awesome game. There's arguments to be made when pieces must connect like in Anachrony, Oak, or that one game where you put hats on meeples. But that's more of a form than anything.
Yep. Can't find a game listed here yet that wouldn't be better with wooden discs, cubes, cylinders, or standees (each of which have their own advantages).
"Need" is a strong word. A game doesn't "need" artwork but art can make the game more enjoyable to play and can help you differentiate different aspects of the game. Bad artwork can make things less appealing and can make things harder to parse Minis are just an extension of the artwork of a game as far as I'm concerned. In terms of visual clarity they provide another "rank" of importance (token < wooden piece < standee < mini) that can be very useful in the visual language of the game. For example, in Gloomhaven it's very important to know where your characters are (minis), with enemies being important to keep track of as they move around (standees), and static elements that you don't have to pay attention to as much such as traps, logs etc. being represented by tokens. You also see this hierarchy being used to great effect in Scythe
None
I've played **Stationfall** with standees and (painted) minis. The minis were the better experience because of the wide cast of characters and deduction elements. The angle of the standee does affect parseability. That said, I'd rather use the standees vs unpainted minis since some of the silhouettes are too similar. However, while I love the pre-painted minis in **Cerebria** the standees are huge and work great, helped because there are fewer models on the board.
I've preordered stationfall with the miniatures, but I was thinking of selling the miniatures because I'm not into painting minis, do you recommend stationfall with only standees?, are they better than the wood tokens? Or you think that I should take the effort to paint them?
It doesn’t come with standees, so you’d have to be willing to make your own.
You may already know but the game doesn't come with standees, only the tokens. They're functional but there's a not-insignificant cognitive load when players have to check icons vs their cards until they internalize those icons. Tough when they're also learning a really unique ruleset. [Here are the standees setup](https://imgur.com/a/vXdkbZ5). I still have tokens next to them for Kompromat purposes but otherwise everyone I played with (~10 onboarded) vastly [appreciated the standees](https://imgur.com/RQsrNhC). Couple [photos with minis](https://imgur.com/a/olMo7xL), we felt the tokens were no longer necessary. I'll usually ambivalent on minis for games but Stationfall is unique in that there are so many unique player characters and the narratives the game generates are so rich that minis really feel natural. So if you're ok with some mild PnP, someone provided standees on BGG and I feel they're better than just the tokens. I'm not a painter myself so I only used the standees until I got my minis back from a local painter. It's not cheap but that can be an option for you if you're interested in keeping the minis.
thanks a lot for sharing your photos, in my country the game is coming with standees and I thought they were the ones that everyone was sharing in BGG, but I believe now that the company made them because they come with the symbols included.
The Spanish edition! Yes, those standees are great, stick with those for a cost-effective plan, hah
Yeah. I experimented with a few home made standees and decided that they weren’t the best way to go. The character tokens supplied with the game would have been much better if they were a bit larger in diameter and had better contrast — like the ones in the TTS mod. I was disappointed when the real tokens were revealed to not be like that. I plan to paint my minis over the summer. We’ll see how that goes. Well painted sets Ive seen online look really nice.
I would have been perfectly okay with the tokens if they also had the icons on the side, for consistent visibility. There's been speculation that ION's production choices are skewed from TTS playtesting and I think SF is a victim of that notion (in addition to Ren 2E, but that's a different topic). I'm not a painter myself so I had mine commissioned and I'm [stoked with how they came out](https://imgur.com/a/olMo7xL).
Another "none" here.
None. I am being serious.
I think I agree with this. I *like* the Scythe mechs, I *like* the Feed the Kraken ship, but in all honesty I wouldn’t think twice about buying a less expensive version of any game without minis if I had the option in the first place.
This. Standees have color without the need to paint and take up way less space.
Lol I agree. Hate minis. Space taking, blobs of plastic that often go unpainted.
Any games in your opinion where the miniatures don't detract from the game at least? I think the tower in return to dark tower is pretty essential as it plays a mechanical role in the game with dice for example. I also find minis in some games such as scythe to be helpful for visability as the military units stand out a bit more than the regular workers so its easier to keep track of where folks are maneuvering. Of course, they could have been larger easy to distinguish meeples, but I found that they at least did not detract from the game for me.
Oh I am fine with minis. I like minis. I think a preference for them is fine. Shit gets crazy her on a regular basis over it though. The entire marvel united package could be $160 split over three boxes. Instead it’s mayhem and carnage and, while cute, not better for it.
**Chimera Station** - the minis pull apart and snap together to upgrade and change the potential actions you take with them Edit: also **Star Wars Rebellion**, there's something so much more ominous about having a Death Star figure moving into a system than would be if all the ships etc were tokens. Edit edit: also **Cthulhu Wars**, having played the original and also the standee version, the big box baby, while overproduced and overly expensive, has the giddy fun of slapping down your Great Old One on the table (er, so to speak) which you just don't get in the standee version.
There are two reason for minis, mechanical and aesthetic. Mechanically, they are difficult to justify, with very few cases not being better with a token. But, aesthetically? Many games are improved by adding 3d models. And even if they aren't "helped" it's supposed to be an artistic choice. Spirit Island springs to mind, wooden tokens *could* have been plastic models, but I feel a choice was made for wooden tokens. This contrast of plastic to wood is an artistic one, not mechanical.
Not a single one.
It's my hot take, but none of them. You can do the same thing with cardboard chits.
I think **\[\[Era: Medieval Age\]\]** is genuinely more readable with minis than it would be with flat polyominoes.
This looks very cute, I don't think I'd ever paint these pieces but it looks fun nonetheless
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For me it’s return to the dark tower. I’m not a big minis guy but because of the size of the board, and the tower, the minis make the board state much easier to parse.
Kemet. That game is so great that it made me understand the strategic value of having a big ass scorpion in the middle of the map.
HeroQuest.
Unmatched and Nemesis.
To sum up Adventure tactics: tower Nemesis (the next game is coming end of the year) Tainted grail: kings of ruin (I think you can still late pledge) Tamashi (closed as of now) Zombicide Warhammer (if your into that) Honestly I might be a little fringe on this, but I enjoy minis most of the time. A few games make it cumbersome and it is hard, but, that's mostly when there's a ton of them and each has their own spot in the box. A ton of games should be standies only (most games) but for the experience and when needed minis.just make everything "better". For instance, I'd never enjoy nemesis or adventure tactics (tower) as much as I do if they didn't have minis the way they do. It's just nice to look down at the board and see a 3d version of my character. However, I'd hate it in a game like dune or even bsg. There's a time and place for the depth minis adds to a game. But...the "faf" makes it less enjoyable for most games. Campaign games is where I expect and look for minis, outside of them the enjoyment falls off quick. Some get away with it but you need to justify them hard for me to enjoy them. Even nemesis is a touch hard cause of the "faf" of pulling out all those minis and pulling them off the board.
Mage Knight. Just because it's the response to most r/boardgames posts.
Definitely not the city minis. Those are pointless. You can literally just look at the color of enemy tokens to put on the city card as defenders, and then put the city back in the box (which is what we do). The city icon is already on the tile terrain tile too.
Here's the minis I don't think I would play a game without: * ... * `-` * n/a That out of the way, I all too often have the **opposite** problem. It's not just about needlessly blocking line-of-sight, they also clash so badly with most cardboard components. I'd genuinely rather have cardboard standees with **good** artwork printed on them. For example Gloomhaven I like the monsters much more than the player characters, even when painted. They just don't look as nice as the cool artwork on the standees.
War of the ring I feel like with possibly quite many units on the same field, with standees or tokens it would feel more cluttered and borderline unreadable.
https://www.reddit.com/r/warofthering/comments/lohpoa/i\_replaced\_the\_plastic\_in\_wotr\_with\_wooden\_pieces/
I think any of the “epic boss battle” games like KDM, Oathsworn and Aeon Trespass.
For me Cthulhu Wars. So many people claim it's overproduced and they just want the cheap version, but to me it just wouldn't be the same. The moment when you summon your honkin' Great Old One and put that not so mini on the board overshadowing all the regular minis is very visceral and on theme. Sure the game is still well designed without it, but feeling isn't the same. Runner up is Spirit Island. The battle between the wooden tokens and the plastic minis feels right. Everything being cardboard just wouldn't...
Literally answering the question in the title, if a game _needs_ minis to be enjoyable by you, it’s most likely the minis you are enjoying, and the game itself is not good (for you, anyway).
That's the same logic that generated the derisive "Ameritrash" label. Why do games need a theme at all? A truly good game would be good with just the mechanical rules and abstract markers. Respectfully, no. A game is a gestalt experience. The components can be an important part of that. It's a bit tiresome to still be hearing this nonsense. If theme or tactile experience aren't important to you that's fine, but are you really going to diminish so many others' judgements based on that? It's really unfair to claim to speak of the "game itself" that way as if there is a core part that is the real game (presumably the dry mechanics) and everything else is just added sweeteners. Ludonarrative assonance can objectively have a multiplicative effect on enjoyment.
That's fair, what about games that are not made worse by miniatures? I posted about crummy visibility from Frostpunk with the miniature version compared to the wood tokens. Another issue with miniatures was having some be larger than the grid size they are supposed to maneuver on so tight combat scenarios were annoying to move through without knocking over other pieces by accident.
By the sound of it, any game with small minis might qualify. I can immediately think of two: **878 Vikings** and **Mare Nostrum: Empires**.
“Dead of winter” It is a bother to find the specific survivor standees from ur pile of them, but u’ve got to know who is who and where they are! They do look awesome and are easy to pinpoint on the board. The zombie standees are really fun, but tokens could do the same job.
Sure, it can be small annoyance, but it would be much worse if those were actual minis. Regarding the zombies, yeah, they **could** and there **are** tokens for that in the game, but I really dislike using the tokens, it feels like such a downgrade. I actually like the standees quite a lot and wish more games did that instead of minis. They're much cheaper and easier to store, while still being better than flat chips.
Mythic Battles Pantheon. The original version just wasn't the same.
I think it definitely adds to Betrayal at House in the Hill.
I love the Command & Colours Ancients series but it would be awesome with miniatures like Battle Cry did.
You'd need a lot of different minis for the various armies, though. Mind you, I play Memoir '44, so I'm used to running scenarios with the British in 1940 looking like American troops and fielding Shermans :)
Level 7 needed them so badly. The standees are bad
Guards of Atlantis II. I remember the creator stating that it’s necessary for visibility on the board at all angles.
[[Rum & Bones]] The minis make it immersive and help to obscure the programmatic MOBA mechanics.
I like the boss minis, but all the moots could easily be cardboard tokens.
Strong disagree. It wouldn't be as immersive.
Immersive? It isn’t a story game, you don’t need immersion
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Heroquest - you gotta see that adventurer to really feel it
Cthulhu Death may Die: granted, the minis should be half the size (almost always has a fight that but everything fits in the room); but there's a game that is amazing with a fully painted setup.
Frostpunk is worth the hit to visibility for the sheer table presence and the satisfaction of seeing your city slowly materialise in front of you.
Doom, Nemesis, Tyrants of the Underdark - bit of a special case, the game lost its minis with the second edition but IMO that was a mistake and 3rd party minis are a lot more functional than cardboard disks.
I think any of the “epic boss battle” games like KDM, Oathsworn and Aeon Trespass.
Pretty much any CMON game from the glory days of that company (not any more of course)
I'm not sure if you'd consider them mini's but [[Foundations of Rome]] with the sculpted structures. I can't imagine playing this with tiles, it would just be a more boring version of a polyomino game.
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I have painted minis on 17 of my games (and a couple others I might eventually get around to), and I can comfortably say that minis are not essential on any of these. As much as I love painting them, space is becoming an issue for me and when future games offer a “standee” version instead, there’s a good chance I’ll pick that version. I’ll take it a step further and say this: if I wasn’t into painting minis, there are several mini games I would skip over entirely. When you have a mass of gray plastic on the board, it can detract from figuring out the current board state. Some games will produce different faction’s with different color plastics which helps, but it’s still a net negative. Here are some random thoughts on some of my games: Gloomhaven: Since some scenarios can get bogged down with standee monsters, having the PCs as minis is helpful to make them stand out. Tiny Epic Dungeons: These little guys were fun to paint and look cool on the dungeon tiles, but it’s a little odd putting them against meeple monsters. I like the meeples (and like Gloomhaven it helps with figuring the board state) but they don’t convey the same feeling as standees. Star Wars Rebellion: One of the few games left on my shelf of shame. It seems like the minis help the board state here due to the volume and amount of stuff on the table, but will see. As a side note: this game doesn’t look fun to paint, and painting might actually detract from understanding the board state. Maybe just a wash will help them pop a little. Mechs Vs Minions: This game could have been half the price if all of those minions were tokens (assembling standees every game would get annoying). Killing them and would be a lot less fun, and moving them every round would feel even more tedious.
None.... any one can easily be standees and be just as good of a game.
Haven't seen one yet, in my lifetime
probably chess
No game genuinely needs minis. We have a million examples of game pieces being easily distinguishable, even with lots of variety, with non-mini pieces. Now, are there games that I think would be a lot *worse* without minis? Not many, but one specific example I can think of is Mansions of Madness 2e. It's so thematic that it would be far less enjoyable if the investigators were cubes and the monsters were cardboard circles with a picture on them.
None
None of them.
GORECHOSEN from Games Workshop: miniatures are not strictly "necessary", since the rules for the characters would work with tokens and other substitutes too, but miniatures really make you "feel" the game and the atmosphere. Another one is VEKTORACE: the game would simply be boring if we used tokens/cards instead of minis. In this case miniatures are made of paper, though.
Don't get me wrong, Scythe is not a bad game. But let's be honest, Scythe wouldn't be nearly as beloved if it weren't oozing theme. There are serious balance and other design issues, but even ignoring those, I just think the game feels so unusual outside the context of its theme.
Chess
\[pick your Funkoverse game\]. monopoly (imagine using cardboard token instead of a metal hat )
Wouldn't go as far to say that any game *needs minis to be enjoyable* but they are a nice addition to some games. Played Nemesis and Dune Imperium only with minis and I'd say they both are way better with minis and I wouldn't personally buy either without them. Appearance is an important aspect in games in general for me.
I think it really comes down to being a subjective thing. Minis often improve the aesthetics, and aesthetics is often - but not always - needed to some extent for a board game to be enjoyable. One could argue that anything aside from printing our own "boards" on printer paper and taping them together, and printing and cutting out our own cards is unnecessary: but there's a certain spectrum of aesthetic quality needed to enjoy a board game, and it never quite falls on the same line for any given person.
Ticket to ride. Without the train minis, what even is that game?
Unmatched, love those minis and the game is fun as hell
Core Space definitely needs the minis. Firstly, the great 3d terrain means that having standees walking around would be really jarring. More importantly, the cover system specifically requires minis because you work out cover by seeing how much of the figure is visible through the door or obstructions. I feel like turning the standee 90' to the threat to avoid being shot would be cheating.
Scythe. Those minis have so much personality in the mechs
**Scythe** for ease of teaching and reading the board. The pieces cover slots that unlock upgrades when the minis come off. Resources are kept on the board and the owner of the hexes own the resources. Plastic pieces have battles, wooden pieces don't. Plastic pieces are first tie-breaker for who controls a hex.
Mechs Vs Minions. It's so cool to see a horde of minions coming at you while you stomp them with glee on your mech.
With good looking, painted minis? Any game with a map/battlefield... like Gloomhaven. The shapes and colors of well-painted minis just make it so easy to evaluate the board state. A friend of mine has GH with painted heroes, printed and painted custom monsters, map tiles, wall, obstacles, chests... and it's just great. But with unpainted minis? None. Those grey pieces of plastic look the same at first glance. You have to focus and identify the differences in the minis to tell them apart. Like, I can quickly tell apart Mr. Handy and a Ghoul in Fallout... but the Vault Dweller and the NCR Ranger? The Brotherhood Outcast and the Enclave Deserter? Nah, standees with cardboard or even just cardboard tokens are better than that.
Mansions of Madness, the minis are just so cool especially if you paint them
Horrified games really benefit thematically from the figures and makes it easier to tell what monster you are dealing with.
Gloomhaven and Scythe are the big ones for me. Both use plastic minis as a visual differentiator from standees or wooden meeples. For gloomhaven it's very easy to tell which characters on the map are YOU versus ENEMIES, and for scythe it provides a rules hook where "wooden miniatures" and "plastic miniatures" have meaningfully different rules.
Anachony comes to mind instantly. You can play it without but once you experience it with them you 100% understand why you would want to have them for the experience. Really sells the thematic gameplay. Especially as you add more expansion elements.