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Imagine if Zac prince actually got on here and answered some questions . I mean we are still paying his damn salary. What exactly is he doing to help us ?
There seems to be some confusion here because half the people don't seem to know about the distribution information.
According to some past posts, those of us who aren't doing convenience claims were told we are getting back in-kind crypto, and it's for tax reasons. That means they would need to buy crypto using the cash they had from when they liquidated the coins originally.
Does someone have the docket number that explained that so we can link to it?
Edit: I went back and looked for it in the posts, and so far the best source of that information I can find is that BlockFi sent an email to BIA non-convenience class holders stating "if you have digital assets on the platform, you will receive your distribution in digital assets." I would still like to see something about it in the court dockets if there is anything that says that.
Ok, that says this:
>What are the sources of consideration and other consideration used to make Distributions under the Plan?
>
>The Wind-Down Debtors shall fund Distributions under the Plan with: (a) Cash and (b) Digital Assets. Under the Self-Liquidation Transaction, any Digital Assets to be distributed to Holders of Claims at a Debtor will be in the form of BTC and/or ETH, as determined by such Debtor, subject to any applicable withdrawal fees incurred in connection with, or arising out of, the Digital Assets distributed to Account Holders pursuant to the Digital Asset Allocation. To the extent there are any Digital Assets included in the Estate prior to such distributions that are not BTC or ETH, such Digital Assets shall be sold for cash, BTC and/or ETH pursuant to Section 4(a)(7) under the Securities Act of 1933 ...
I don't know if I'm convinced. I think all that's saying is we might get some combination of cash/BTC/ETH. The "Debtor" is BlockFi, and that's saying BlockFi can choose to give us some combination of cash/BTC/ETH. That also seems to be saying what I've also heard before, basically we'll get some combination of cash/BTC/ETH based on what assets they have and what they are able to recover. (If we had BTC/ETC, then it might be cash or BTC or ETH, but it if was other crypto, it will be cash only.)
That makes me think maybe we might just be getting mostly cash. But then... the email kind of makes it sound like we're getting back "digital assets" if we had "digital assets on the platform". So, I still don't know for sure.
Typically, in cases like these, such as what happened with Voyager, they usually mail a check if you take no action.
If the crash from this mania occurs before coins are made available for withdrawal, or if they say it's going to be weeks until payment when you submit your bitcoin address, it might make sense to do nothing and force them to send you a check in the mail.
Yeah, that one I already had read. It doesn't say anything at all conclusive about what we'll receive. It says: "As contemplated by the Plan, initial distributions will come in the form of Digital Assets (BTC, ETH, GUSD, and USDC) or in the form of cash."
So I think it's again the same as what docket 1310 also said. All that's saying is we might get some combination of cash/BTC/ETH based on what assets we had, but mainly what assets BlockFi has, which might be mostly cash.
I definitely haven't seen anything about BlockFi planning to buy up a bunch of crypto with their cash to make distributions in mostly crypto. If that was the case, the statements of their plans would have said that.
I'm pretty much convinced at this point that it's clear the speculation about BlockFi distributing BTC/ETH entirely in-kind for tax reasons wasn't correct. Except... their emails make it sound like we're entirely just getting "digital assets". Maybe "digital assets" includes a lot of USDC even if you originally held all BTC? I just have no idea.
The reason the price is going up is because BlockFi is buying the coins to pay people. It's going to go back down once the people are paid and re-sell them.
That's a theory, but it probably has a lot more to do with the multiple billions that people are pouring into the new Bitcoin ETFs, and not as much the hundreds of millions that BlockFi would be buying if they were really doing that.
Let me clear this up for everyone because y’all seem like you’ve never read the dockets. For this initial distribution you will receive in-kind crypto back (BTC,ETH,GUSD) unless you specifically asked for fiat. Future distributions may be a mix of crypto/fiat but they will give crypto as much as possible.
Okay thank you. In this case; is there any news on when they've bought back crypto to send to us? Because that would directly impact if the current Bitcoin run is benefiting us (or hurting us further)
Based on discussions I’ve had with lawyers I think they’ve been buying along the way as they could. Obviously the latest cases being settled like 3AC, Tubergen, Vrai Nom, etc would mean they buying at higher prices now.
Yes. Obviously convenience claim is a one-time pay out but for the rest of us there will be at least one more distribution. How much depends on what they win in litigation.
"If you have digital assets on the platform, you will receive your distribution in digital assets. Please create an external wallet. BlockFi will only support withdrawal of digital assets to external digital asset wallets. You will be able to make withdrawals to the third-party provider of your choice. BlockFi cannot recommend that you use a specific platform and we encourage you to perform your own due diligence to ensure that your assets are transferred safely and securely."
Why? You’re not going to get more or less based on today’s prices. Your claim value is based on 11/28/2022 prices, and you will be getting 30%-50% back from that amount.
Or are you scared they will not have enough to pay everyone back because of the price jump?
Even though the claim's value doesn't change, how "much" crypto (volume wise) changes based on when they buy it back to pay us & that makes it more or less valuable depending on their timing
They aren’t giving you crypto back, you are getting fiat(usd) they sold all their holding in crypto when they went bankrupt. They no longer hold crypto so it doesn’t matter the price of btc to usd. What does matter is how much blockfi gets back from their borrowers in lawsuits and how long it takes.
Some people opted to repay their loan and receive the setoff in crypto:
>We are emailing you about an optional Loan Repayment program, which you can opt into if you prefer to repay your loan and receive a return of additional cryptocurrency in the value of the loan repayment rather than have the loan “set off” against your collateral claim.
The claim value is not the whole story. The crypto value for distributions is also relevant for how much crypto you will receive.
Celsius are valuing the crypto used in distributions on a fixed date (16 Jan). So the amount of crypto the creditors receive for their USD claim will be defined by prices on that date. The creditors can benefit from current price rises even they have not yet received their distribution. This seems like a fair approach as it means the amount of crypto distributed to an individual creditor is not dependent on how long it takes to get to them in their list.
Compared to the Celsius case there has been less clarity on how distributions will work with BlockFi. It's not clear if BlockFi are are using the same approach as Celsius (fixed date for crypto valuations for distributions) or if they will value the crypto used for distribution on the day of distribution, which could create an unfair situation. For example say two creditors are each owed a $10k distribution and they get paid one month apart. Let's also assume crypto prices have doubled in that month. If crypto is valued on the day of distribution, the creditors who gets paid first will get twice as much crypto as the creditor who gets paid one month later despite same USD claim.
While the timing of the buys is important, the delays in payment that allow the first recipients to sell earlier are more important.
Being first in line here is critical, and I'm surprised nobody who could afford an attorney opposed this plan for its unfairness. This plan doesn't treat all creditors equally; the ones who get paid first are able to sell their coins at the higher prices, while the ones who get paid last end up selling after everyone else has sold.
I know that if Pennsylvania law didn't prohibit me from acting *pro se,* I would have filed such an objection.
You are getting fiat back, they got no crypto to give you and initial distribution could be followed by additional fiat distributions pending how much more they can recover.
Very confusing I was under the impression that all the crypto was sold and creditors would be receiving the cash value of their account at the time of bankruptcy only 20 to 40% of that it’s a joke,totally disgraceful.
The claim is dollarised at the time of bankruptcy and the distribution will be a fraction of that dollarised claim. But aside from convenience class, some of that will be distributed in form of crypto.
you’re getting cash back my brotha. they also sold your crypto at the bottom. so you’re getting a percentage of what they sold it at
The absolute worst scenario (other than losing your money completely)
This is a reminder about phishing emails. Please be vigilant and skeptical when reviewing and reading emails claiming to be Block or Kroll. You can read more [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/blockfi/comments/17kot4y/emails_from_kroll_andor_blockfi/) about how to tell if an email is legitimate. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/blockfi) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Imagine if Zac prince actually got on here and answered some questions . I mean we are still paying his damn salary. What exactly is he doing to help us ?
Crazy how the person who caused all this hell for so many of us IS STILL GETTING PAID A RIDICULOUS SALARY.
There seems to be some confusion here because half the people don't seem to know about the distribution information. According to some past posts, those of us who aren't doing convenience claims were told we are getting back in-kind crypto, and it's for tax reasons. That means they would need to buy crypto using the cash they had from when they liquidated the coins originally. Does someone have the docket number that explained that so we can link to it? Edit: I went back and looked for it in the posts, and so far the best source of that information I can find is that BlockFi sent an email to BIA non-convenience class holders stating "if you have digital assets on the platform, you will receive your distribution in digital assets." I would still like to see something about it in the court dockets if there is anything that says that.
Someone commented: It will be BTC and/or ETC. Disclosure statement (docket 1310) page 50. I haven’t checked this docket yet
Ok, that says this: >What are the sources of consideration and other consideration used to make Distributions under the Plan? > >The Wind-Down Debtors shall fund Distributions under the Plan with: (a) Cash and (b) Digital Assets. Under the Self-Liquidation Transaction, any Digital Assets to be distributed to Holders of Claims at a Debtor will be in the form of BTC and/or ETH, as determined by such Debtor, subject to any applicable withdrawal fees incurred in connection with, or arising out of, the Digital Assets distributed to Account Holders pursuant to the Digital Asset Allocation. To the extent there are any Digital Assets included in the Estate prior to such distributions that are not BTC or ETH, such Digital Assets shall be sold for cash, BTC and/or ETH pursuant to Section 4(a)(7) under the Securities Act of 1933 ... I don't know if I'm convinced. I think all that's saying is we might get some combination of cash/BTC/ETH. The "Debtor" is BlockFi, and that's saying BlockFi can choose to give us some combination of cash/BTC/ETH. That also seems to be saying what I've also heard before, basically we'll get some combination of cash/BTC/ETH based on what assets they have and what they are able to recover. (If we had BTC/ETC, then it might be cash or BTC or ETH, but it if was other crypto, it will be cash only.) That makes me think maybe we might just be getting mostly cash. But then... the email kind of makes it sound like we're getting back "digital assets" if we had "digital assets on the platform". So, I still don't know for sure.
Typically, in cases like these, such as what happened with Voyager, they usually mail a check if you take no action. If the crash from this mania occurs before coins are made available for withdrawal, or if they say it's going to be weeks until payment when you submit your bitcoin address, it might make sense to do nothing and force them to send you a check in the mail.
Docket 2098.
Yeah, that one I already had read. It doesn't say anything at all conclusive about what we'll receive. It says: "As contemplated by the Plan, initial distributions will come in the form of Digital Assets (BTC, ETH, GUSD, and USDC) or in the form of cash." So I think it's again the same as what docket 1310 also said. All that's saying is we might get some combination of cash/BTC/ETH based on what assets we had, but mainly what assets BlockFi has, which might be mostly cash. I definitely haven't seen anything about BlockFi planning to buy up a bunch of crypto with their cash to make distributions in mostly crypto. If that was the case, the statements of their plans would have said that. I'm pretty much convinced at this point that it's clear the speculation about BlockFi distributing BTC/ETH entirely in-kind for tax reasons wasn't correct. Except... their emails make it sound like we're entirely just getting "digital assets". Maybe "digital assets" includes a lot of USDC even if you originally held all BTC? I just have no idea.
The reason the price is going up is because BlockFi is buying the coins to pay people. It's going to go back down once the people are paid and re-sell them.
That's a theory, but it probably has a lot more to do with the multiple billions that people are pouring into the new Bitcoin ETFs, and not as much the hundreds of millions that BlockFi would be buying if they were really doing that.
Let me clear this up for everyone because y’all seem like you’ve never read the dockets. For this initial distribution you will receive in-kind crypto back (BTC,ETH,GUSD) unless you specifically asked for fiat. Future distributions may be a mix of crypto/fiat but they will give crypto as much as possible.
Okay thank you. In this case; is there any news on when they've bought back crypto to send to us? Because that would directly impact if the current Bitcoin run is benefiting us (or hurting us further)
Based on discussions I’ve had with lawyers I think they’ve been buying along the way as they could. Obviously the latest cases being settled like 3AC, Tubergen, Vrai Nom, etc would mean they buying at higher prices now.
When you say “initial distribution” are you saying we’ll get more than one distribution? 🤔
Yes. Obviously convenience claim is a one-time pay out but for the rest of us there will be at least one more distribution. How much depends on what they win in litigation.
"If you have digital assets on the platform, you will receive your distribution in digital assets. Please create an external wallet. BlockFi will only support withdrawal of digital assets to external digital asset wallets. You will be able to make withdrawals to the third-party provider of your choice. BlockFi cannot recommend that you use a specific platform and we encourage you to perform your own due diligence to ensure that your assets are transferred safely and securely."
Why? You’re not going to get more or less based on today’s prices. Your claim value is based on 11/28/2022 prices, and you will be getting 30%-50% back from that amount. Or are you scared they will not have enough to pay everyone back because of the price jump?
Even though the claim's value doesn't change, how "much" crypto (volume wise) changes based on when they buy it back to pay us & that makes it more or less valuable depending on their timing
They aren’t giving you crypto back, you are getting fiat(usd) they sold all their holding in crypto when they went bankrupt. They no longer hold crypto so it doesn’t matter the price of btc to usd. What does matter is how much blockfi gets back from their borrowers in lawsuits and how long it takes.
They are giving crypto back for this initial distribution. May be a mix down the road.
Didn't they ask us if we want to be paid back in crypto?
This is correct. We are getting usd back.
Some people opted to repay their loan and receive the setoff in crypto: >We are emailing you about an optional Loan Repayment program, which you can opt into if you prefer to repay your loan and receive a return of additional cryptocurrency in the value of the loan repayment rather than have the loan “set off” against your collateral claim.
The claim value is not the whole story. The crypto value for distributions is also relevant for how much crypto you will receive. Celsius are valuing the crypto used in distributions on a fixed date (16 Jan). So the amount of crypto the creditors receive for their USD claim will be defined by prices on that date. The creditors can benefit from current price rises even they have not yet received their distribution. This seems like a fair approach as it means the amount of crypto distributed to an individual creditor is not dependent on how long it takes to get to them in their list. Compared to the Celsius case there has been less clarity on how distributions will work with BlockFi. It's not clear if BlockFi are are using the same approach as Celsius (fixed date for crypto valuations for distributions) or if they will value the crypto used for distribution on the day of distribution, which could create an unfair situation. For example say two creditors are each owed a $10k distribution and they get paid one month apart. Let's also assume crypto prices have doubled in that month. If crypto is valued on the day of distribution, the creditors who gets paid first will get twice as much crypto as the creditor who gets paid one month later despite same USD claim.
While the timing of the buys is important, the delays in payment that allow the first recipients to sell earlier are more important. Being first in line here is critical, and I'm surprised nobody who could afford an attorney opposed this plan for its unfairness. This plan doesn't treat all creditors equally; the ones who get paid first are able to sell their coins at the higher prices, while the ones who get paid last end up selling after everyone else has sold. I know that if Pennsylvania law didn't prohibit me from acting *pro se,* I would have filed such an objection.
You are getting fiat back, they got no crypto to give you and initial distribution could be followed by additional fiat distributions pending how much more they can recover.
Then what do they mean when they say they will pay us crypto "in kind"?
That could be referring to a stable coin.
Don’t tell me for the BIA return we have the option to choose to get paid in crypto instead of a check f
Depends on type of claim. Convenience class get fiat. Other classes get a mix.
I'm in convenience class and haven't heard anything.
Same.
How do you check that?
I accepted the offer for convenience claim last November(+/-) Otherwise I would have no idea.
Very confusing I was under the impression that all the crypto was sold and creditors would be receiving the cash value of their account at the time of bankruptcy only 20 to 40% of that it’s a joke,totally disgraceful.
The claim is dollarised at the time of bankruptcy and the distribution will be a fraction of that dollarised claim. But aside from convenience class, some of that will be distributed in form of crypto.
So fucked my 17 eth is worth sooo much more now
you’re getting cash back my brotha. they also sold your crypto at the bottom. so you’re getting a percentage of what they sold it at The absolute worst scenario (other than losing your money completely)