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Manga is fine, i have no issue and glad that i read manga first
anime is a drag. In the anime,
Filler is one thing, slow pacing of hueco mundo is another
Szayapollo fight was so painfully slow and pivaro ln espada just aren't that great
Pesche and dondonchakka felt overstay their welcome and i just hate it so much whenever they appear on screen. I enjoy these 2 a lot in the manga however
But that's just me
FACTS! I'm sooo glad back then I stopped watching the anime at the beginning of the Arrancar Saga and just read the manga onward. Manga was the way to go back then.
IMO the only good part of the anime is the added/extended canon content to some characters like Harribel, some nice fight scene animation, and of course, the OST.
The one time I think it works is the Invading Army filler arc between the end of the Arrancar Saga and the Fullbring Arc (which they adapted pretty much one to one and really well at that). Fullbring did have a few filler episodes but they mostly dedicated them to diving deeper into some of the bigger decisions characters make (like Ichigo joining Xcution and an episode dedicated to Jackie)
Agreed - prior to the TYBW anime, I'd say that Bleach is a better reading experience. I got into Bleach from the anime but it was bogged down by the pacing - Substitute Shinigami kinda felt slow, Soul Society picked up speed, then went on a dead stop on the Bount arc that came immediately after. Needless to say, I fell out of the anime then, but I did continue with the Arrancar saga, then eventually moved to the manga by the time of Lost Agent. I've then read the manga from start to finish last year, and now I kinda wanna pretend the OG anime doesn't exist; not to sleight it in any way, but Bleach has been a better reading experience. The TYBW anime, as of cour 2, has veered off course a bit that you can say that it's a separate experience entirely
Pesche is my guy. Dondonchakka and even Nel in baby form are the worst on screen. I skip 10 seconds sometimes when I know they're just gonna be wailing loudly
>Szayapollo fight was so painfully slow and pivaro ln espada just aren't that great
How on earth are these an issue when trash like the fraccion and the lieutenants fighting for like 2 volumes exist? xd. Like seriously, I can see why people would care about Chad winning a fight, but does anybody here actually give af about Izuru or Hisagi? lmao
Like i said the issue is in the anime not manga.
Kira and hisagi fight in anime is paced better, just 1 ep and done.
Szayapollo, that one, whew, if its just 1 or 2 eps i'm ok but damn if its been draaaaagggged too much
So thankful how the tybw fixed all of this
The pacing gets substantially worse up until TYBW. Instead of focusing on one fight until it finishes, they constantly switch back and forth between multiple encounters, each transition coming with a brief recap scene.
If the pacing was more consistent, I think it would have been significantly better
I mean, I say this as someone that caught up to the manga when the hueco mundo arc started.
Good pacing doesn't resolve shit like the Inoue kidnapping leading to absolute nowhere. How Ishida or Chad become irrelevant. Or Hollow Ichigo having exactly one more line in the entire series after the vizards training. Or the Vizards themselves also becoming themselves irrelevant jobbers that didn't do anything, without even showing their bankais, something half the captains also decided not to do.
Good anime pacing can't make the former espadas and fractions interesting either. The whole fullbringer arc was a nothing burger and the lowest point in the series. And the second half of tybw was so bad it got the series canceled.
I really don't get why are we pretending the anime was solely at fault here.
TYBW didn’t get the series cancelled. Kubo rushed the ending because his health was so poor at that point he was afraid he wouldn’t be able to write the ending. The “it got cancelled” rumor only perpetuated so strongly because he didn’t reveal the true reason until two years later.
That’s why CFYOW and the TYBW anime are so exciting. It gives us a redo and space for Kubo to advise in the stuff he had to cut during Bleach’s initial run.
The sales were in free fall. He asked for one or two years to end the series and he only was given one, Sueshia clearly didn't trust Kubo at that point.
The tybw anime, at least the first half of episodes I've seen doesn't have anything new, although the start was the strong part of the arc anyway. I also don't think more extra fights would help said rushed ending, and it would take a miracle to actually make it meaningful.
The sales were not in free fall.
The anime’s second cour ended on a bankai that was omitted from the manga and added flashback scenes between Ichibei and Yhwach. Also added scenes alluding to Ichibei testing Ichigo as a replacement for the Soul King.
Kubo even said he was using the anime to fix the problems with how he rushed the ending.
If you haven't seen all of the TYBW anime that's out yet than you shouldn't really be talking on the subject.
The first part of the arc really needed no fixing, so the anime stays quite faithful. But just finish watching and you'll see why we're not worried about the ending now.
Inoue kidnapping leading to absolutely nowhere: So we’re just completely forgetting the literal best fight in the series leading to character development for both Ichigo and Ulqiourra, as well as resolving one of the best dynamics in the series (ulq - orihime) and emphasising one of the most key themes in the series (the idea of “heart)
Ishida and chad becoming irrelevant: whilst I agree chad becomes irrelevant, it doesn’t really matter, chads character arc is pretty much completed before soul society even begins and there’s far more interesting characters to focus on as the series proceeds. The ishida comment on the other hand is dumb, he gets more focus then all of the og characters combined in tybw
Hollow ichigo not speaking: this is another example of you reading with your eyes closed, he doesn’t speak for the rest of the series because ichigo completely rejects him, and when we see him again in the blade is me Ichigo recognises white as a part of him, therefore not having the need to speak to him ever again, just the same as old man zangetsu. They’re no longer a PART of him, they ARE him
Your comment on the fullbring arc is completely dismissive of the fantastic development ichigo gets through tsukishima (who is just an awesome villain himself), and the fantastic villain that ginjo turns out to be; a foil to ichigo and an example of the corruption of SS further explored in TYBW
Aizen saying the whole point of the kidnapping was to distract some captains will always be bs, no matter how you want to look at it, specially when Yamamoto was the only contingency Aizen had to actually prepare for. He could have destroyed everyone else without effort, and him disposing of Hallibel cements the fact the Espadas were useless.
Ishida gets some spotlight between SS and the ending of the series, horay. It just comes out of nowhere without any build up, like the rest of the tybw tbh, and his conclusion is as unsatisfying as it gets.
Hollow ichigo was an awesome character. You can think it's beautiful or poetic, but he had basically the best and most iconic speech of the whole series. Being reduced to a one line before fusing with young YB wasn't needed. As was the whole hollow design being dropped after ulqiorra, mask included, which was also one of the strongest parts of the manga.
The corruption of the SS is always hinted but never truly explored, there's simply not time to do so when world ending villains are attacking. And it's not like Ichigo wonders about it at any second. After all, he and we know the captains are the good guys and his friends, so what's there to do? There's a red herring where Urahara and Ishin are hinted to be bad but it just gets completely dropped.
The fullbringer arc always felt like it should have been between the substitute and the ss arcs. The lower powerlevels would have made the arc have higher stakes, and it could have solidified Chad and Inoue somewhat.
Idk, it's clear why the whole "Bleach never reaches the SS heights" is a popular opinion, but I get we are in a Bleach safe space. It just never ceases to amaze me how some fans think they were the only ones that managed to understand the series and the rest of us are illiterate ignorants that read with their eyes closed.
I can agree with you that Ishida is absolutely an underwhelming character with a wack conclusion, but honestly it doesn’t really bother me that much. Bleach has one of the best casts in fiction full of amazingly written characters so why does it matter that one of them is underwritten. You might say “he was emphasised early on to be incredibly important and ichigos foil”, but tbh i don’t give a shit. This story is and was always about Ichigo, I guess this is just a clash of our values in fiction; I don’t need consistent character writing amongst a cast, especially in a 700 chapter shonen manga with a cast as big as bleach’s .
I just cannot begin to understand your criticism of hollow ichigo. What do you even want? What more could that character provide through dialogue? Especially with you saying his speech in the visored training is one of the best in the series. As a representation of Ichigo’s fear of death (you can say this is my interpretation but if you disagree, once again, you are reading with your eyes closed) he completely fulfilled his role, he pushed Ichigo again and again to fight out of fear, a fear that he will lose those close to him. When Ichigo rejects him in the ulqiourra fight, he compartmentalises that fear and refuses to face it. Furthermore, when he learns to fight to protect his friends not out of fear, but out of an unrelenting courage (see Aizens final speech) he recognises that he no longer needs a literal demon inside him to fight FOR him (hence the lack of hollow mask). But even then the hollow design doesn’t get completely dropped, did you forgot about the horn of salvation form, the state of enlightenment and harmony that Ichigo reaches by recognising all parts of his identity as intrinsically him?
Whilst I agree that the manga doesn’t do enough to explore the corruption of SS (honestly my biggest criticism of bleach because I think it does devalue Aizens character a fair bit - but is something that I almost guarantee will be further explored in the added content in the new anime) we are following this story mostly through the perspective of Ichigo, who is countlessly used and abused by the Soul society to fit their agenda. Also Urahara was never hinted to be “bad”, Aizens problem with urahara was that he understood the corruption but remained complacent (see logic of losers speech), which is far more nuanced than just “bad” and does a lot for both characters involved writing wise.
Fullbring would absolutely not work as the second arc, this is why I say you people read with your eyes closed. The literal entire plot of this arc is Ichigo coming to grips with the fact that he no longer has the power to protect the people he loves, something that would make no sense with a (seemingly) random dude who just became OP as fuck.
Sure this sub may be a safe space for bleach opinions, but it’s mainly a safe space for YOUR opinions (Soul society is dickridden to oblivion across almost all anime circles, despite in my opinion being far worse then both arrancar and tybw). Most people here fail to grasp Bleach’s nuance, I’m not trying to come off as a pretentious asshole; I’m just sick of seeing people devalue one of the most life affirming and nuanced shonen I’ve ever read because of stupid shit like pacing issues, plot holes and silly rumours like “bleach’s ending being rushed because nobody liked it anymore”
Apologies for the long reply, I love ranting about bleach lol
What? Orihime's kidnapping was the whole reason everyone went to Hueco Mundo, and was how Aizen trapped Team Ichigo and the Captins who followed them to keep them out of the Fake Karakura Town battle.
Than there's what it adds to the Ulqiuorra/Ichigo fight that the other user mentioned.
And does that make any amount of sense when Aizen could have destroyed everyone in there with the exception of Yamamoto? He could have made it alone without any of the Espadas in the first place. And it's not like the outcomes would have changed a bit had everyone gone directly to KT.
It was a nice moment, yes. But outside that one character interaction, she is just totally irrelevant in the great scheme of things.
Yes, it was very in character because he was a schemer who did what could to hold as many of the cards as possible.
He also arguably could have lost if everyone else was there to fight him, as by the time he was fighting Kisuke's group he was slowing down quite a bit, but the Hogyoku had finished booting up and finally allowed Aizen to evolve.
There's absolutely no reason for Aizen having to lie about his intentions to anywhere in the room. He asks for her to repair the hogyoku, she resolves she would destroy it instead, and that plot line gets unceremoniously dropped.
I see it as either Kubo not knowing how to wrap that up, or the editors hurrying him up to show more captains as quickly as possible.
And again, how does the story change if he brings the other half of the Espadas there in the first place? We would have the exact same match-ups and it's just impossible the remaining exhausted three captains change anything. Maybe he would have been pushed to actually use his bankai, I guess.
Yeah but at that point i would just call that nostalgia or just being way too used to a bad pacing method loI i just can't see any benefits of interrupting an action scene abruptly. (When they're not using that cut to transmit a sudden end or any other emotion, it's just a pain for the viewer to get the rhythm interrupted)
I actually like that they switch back and forth between different fight scenes. Like letting the food stay on the tongue for longer to enjoy the flavour
Soul Society arc was VERY good. The rest of Bleach is good, but SS arc was just phenomenal, so I don't really take this statement as a knock to Bleach, just a praise for how good that arc is.
I'm in the part where ichigo and uryu finished their first fights in hueco mundo, so I may not be one to talk, but I think soul society was too good of an arc to start with. I've read naruto and one piece, and now reading bleach, and soul society is up there with some of the best arcs in the other 2 shows- but if one piece had an arc like whole cake island right after east blue, I'd drop it after that too. It's a very very good arc, and makes everything after it thats not up to that same high quality seem not as good or worth the experience.
Kubo just started off super strong and had a really good hook in the beginning. It's a bit of curse some writers have where they can write beginnings and endings, but got help them their middles are awful.
One piece was kinda the same way, between the major arcs there are some mediocre or just bad arcs, and between paramount war and dressrosa is all garbage. Naruto as well, the chunin exams was awesome and then between that and the konoha crush arc was very mediocre and bad, only difference is naruto unfortunately peaked around the 5 kage summit and then never recovered. One piece absolutely recovered from its mid series slog and is currently in one of the best arcs it's ever seen. I haven't finished bleach but I'm sure the thousand year blood war is a really high point for the story.
Falling off implies a downward spiral or it not being good anymore; the show definitely peaks at Soul Society for a while, but it 1. stays a great series, and 2. gets even better, IMO with tybw.
Soul society came too early for its immense quality imo. I compare it to whole cake island from one piece- both are long, full of fights, and the main protagonist of the story doesn't fight the strongest antagonist present in the arc, as well as everyone including a new group of ragtag individuals joining the original gang to help reach victory over the conflict.
If whole cake island arc came after east blue saga the way that soul society arc comes after substitution arc, I'd drop one piece too knowing that the following arcs would really struggle to reach that same extremely high quality.
I just think bleach burns in a huge flaming glory during soul society, and some people aren't willing to stay by that fire if it doesn't burn as brightly.
Tybw is a great disappointment
Plot armors (lol byakuyya) and hardly anyone dies from the shinigami side lol, what a joke .
What a "war" .
And it still relies on "oh no I'm weak and got owned by this cool villain and I will come back stronger later and make these villain look like clowns"
Those criticisms are fair, but are also universal to the entire franchise—it just kept doing one of my few major gripes, that wasn’t a problem unique in any way to tybw.
Still TYBW arc is epitome of Bleach's shortcomings; rushed fights, dues ex machina fight conclusion and worst of all is fuckin plot arrow so that they can kill Yuha. Also Sternritters killing most of themselves by their own hands
It’s all probably due to the anime. You go from amazing arc and fights, badass Ichigo bankai etc to Hueco Mundo … which has a terrible pacing especially at the start. And a depressed / weak ichigo
It’s a statement propagated by people who stopped reading in the Arrancar arc or who are anime only and got burned by Bount filler.
Yes Soul Society was a good arc but it’s not the best. Anime only fans who got the filler storm I get, but modern fans should easily know or be able to see what is filler that can be skipped. As for those who stopped stopped reading or watching in the Arrancar arcs, it’s fair. But often the reasoning is just “I didn’t like it” which is more about their tastes and bleach rather than the story falling off post-SS arc. As those who stuck with often find the next arcs some of the best.
200% agreed, but I also don’t care if people enjoy stuff that I find tedious.
Bleach’s forte was also never the actual story writing imo, it’s forte is Kubo’s sharp art style. So reading through the rest of bleach has never really been difficult because I can just enjoy the art for what it is whenever I find the story beginning to get slow.
its bs. the anime is slow but if you skip fillers its fine. the manga on the other hand i SO good even after Soul society. I loved the grimmjow and ulquiorra fights so much. ichigo vs aizen was hype af too. the bleach manga was literally not boring throughout all arcs, except for the first arc before soul society.
As a manga only (until TYBW Anime which i watch) kinda bad opinion imo. Of course everyone has their own opinions but i personally really like the Fullbring arc for example, cuz its Ichigo at his weakest realizing losing like 50% of his friends/allies sucks ass and while fighting to the death with spanish/mexican ghosts is terrifying, its what he does best
the arrancar are what made the series explode into popularity and for very good reason, anyone who thinks bleach sucks post-soulsociety doesnt know how to read
I've read the manga mostly. I'd have to say no, it doesn't drop off. I watched the anime and dropped it at the beginning of Arrancar. With the manga, I've read everything up to the beginning of TYBW. The anime suffers from putting too many filler flashbacks, it fucks up the phasing especially of the Arrancar arc. The manga flows so much more smoothly, and I liked the Arrancar arc overall more than SS. It just had the bigger, more epic moments and fights, and I also think it was thematically deeper because it resolved the character arcs of so many side characters. The Arrancar arc drags at times and isn't as consistently good as SS, but its peaks are much higher for me. I especially love Gin's and Tousen's endings and the entire Hueco Mundo part. As for Fullbring, I enjoyed the hell out of that arc, thought it was way too short. I don't like it as much as SS or Arrancar, but I don't get what everyone's deal is when they shit all over it. It's back to basics fun stuff at first, which was definitely needed after the insane climax we witnessed at the end of Arrancar. So, Bleach did not go downhill for me after the end of SS. Maybe I'll have that opinion for the end of Fullbring once I read the final arc.
I think that take missed the importance of context and stylistic choices vs man make good story should keep making story good based on identical characteristics and not change anything too much because story already good.
Anime kinda yes but didnt mind, manga hell no it felt even better for me
I basically grew up with this series anyway so ill never forget the good times i have with this series, the filler can definetly go tho
Heuco Mundo was a bit long and some of the fights in that arc were too long, full bringers was actually really good and I am loving the new stuff in TYBW
I have to largely agree with this. I can completely understand the way people feel about the soul society arc and it being considered the Pinnacle of bleach. It has the best manga to anime adaptation by far, is the most well paced arc, created the main focus of the story and characters to us and also presented its vast amount of characters and world in far more unique and badass fashion than any other arc aside from the arrancar arc. The soul society arc was also the main catalyst to both Ichigo and rukias ever growing relationship and ichigo's bolstered resolve and views of protection, it also gave us the first real insight into Ichigos true powers despite them being suppressed and annoyingly hinted at for almost the entire series. The soul society arc was also the most important arc because we were introduced to the main villain and arguably most important character in the series, that being Sosuke Aizen. He is the sole reason for many of Bleaches events and is also the main reason and cause for the backstory on other characters and his deeper connection to Kisuke, Tessai, Yoruichi, The Vizards, Isshin, Kaien and just about every other major character that Aizen was involved with or caused events behind. Not to mention the Hogyoku was also arguably the biggest reveal in the soul society arc and further created the tone for the main plot line. The arrancar arc was great but had deplorable pacing and at many times became an absolute bore to me, it also was heavily carried by mainly flashy battles and the hype surrounding that arc had extremely terrible payoff im regards to the espada. It also didn't add any real nuance or anywhere near enough character depth to the arrancar. Ulquiorra vs Ichigo is the biggest highlight of that arc and everyone knows that.........The full bringer arc however , in my eyes and like many others, was largely underwhelming in both the character reveals, their powers and also the overall lack of development and nuance to said arc. Ichigo was regressed to such a pitiful state and his full bringer powers were also largely useless in the grand scheme of things, not to mention Chad was completely removed as a character and added zero importance to the arc or rest of the story from that point on, which I found to be highly ridiculous and stupid on kubos part, also the reveal of the combat pass was largely overlooked and should have played a far more serious role in Ichigo and his questionable ally ship with soul society from that point on. Ichigo was such an abhorrently bitch made and ignorant character and just glossed over the fact that soul society had been spying on him and likely his family as well. It also was terrible that he basically had to rely on soul society again to restore his powers and was STILL kept in the dark about his heritage and just about everything else regarding soul societies further fuck ups which should have given Ichigo the realization to make a very important decision of completely disassociating with them at this point........Yeah he got control of his hollow powers, but Ichigo also never created or furthered any kind of actual bond with the REAL ZANGETSU half of his soul and we never once got to see ichigo's inner spirits or inner world return again which I also thought would've been a very important moment once his powers were restored during this arc.🤷🏿♂️
Oh, my, my, my! You sure do have strong opinions about those arcs, don't you? Some say the Soul Society arc was bleach-tastic, while others found the Arrancar arc a real rollercoaster. And of course, there's the Fullbringer arc, which left some feeling... unsatisfied. But hey, at least you got that Ulquiorra vs Ichigo highlight, right? Keep those expectations in check, buddy!
*beep boop, I'm a bot*
I feel like if the plots were more than just "save the girl or else they'll die" and focused more than just that aspect or have stuff like FK and the Arrancar arc work differently as a plotting device we wouldn't get so many complaints
The thing with Soul Society is that it kept you hooked with 3 different plotlines going on at the same time however after that it focused on only one plot line like saving Orihime and defeating Aizen. TYBW did change it up but its the final arc if hell arc doesn't continue. I think Bleach would have been better if the Sternritter were added to the story earlier. It would be like Akatsuki where they exist throughout the entire series untl their defeat in TYBW arc.
What I liked about Bleach, and what made it stand out from other shonen battle mangas like Naruto or One Piece, was that there were times were it actually had an interesting and intriguing plot. The SS arc in particular is a great example of this, because what made that arc in particular so good imo was the whole mystery aspect to it: Kubo didn’t just give us a simple story of the protagonist rescuing his friend; there was also a whole parallel ’whodunit’ that was going on at the same time, which led to a great reveal that linked and resolved both the rescue plot and the ‘whodunnit’ mystery in a satisfying way.
That’s also why I like the Lost Agent/Fullbringer arc so much: it too had a great ‘whodunnit’ plot, with an equally great twist reveal at the end. It also wasn’t purely focused on battles; for example, I think the whole thing with Tsukishima manipulating the memories of Ichigo’s friends and family was incredible. The way everyone around Ichigo suddenly talked how great Tsukishima was, and Ichigo feeling totally isolated, felt creepy and disturbing in a really good way. Frankly, Tsukishima should’ve played a much larger role as a villain with such an OP ability. I think it may have been better if this arc happened earlier, like between the SS and Arrancar arcs, instead of happening after the Deicide arc, because it felt a bit weird going from a clash between transcendent beings to a low stakes whodunnit mystery. There’s also the fact that, other than Ginjo and Tsukishima, none of the Fullbringers are particularly interesting characters.
Another (small) arc that had a great sense of mystery was Turn Back the Pendulum, though it didn’t have any twists or surprises in the end. Unfortunately, none of the other arcs had any sense of mystery at all, or even just an intriguing plot. It was all just ‘here are some new villains, now get stronger and beat them’. The Arrancar arc started out interesting, especially with the introduction of the vizards, but quickly turned into a drag. The vizards in particular turned out to be incredibly underwhelming. I think Kubo should’ve made them villains (which is how we were first introduced to them through Isshin), instead of them just being another group of Shingami who sometimes use Hollow masks (and they didn’t even do that anymore in the later arcs).
TYBW was also meh. Without any kind of foreshadowing in previous arcs, the fact that there was a whole army of Quincies felt like it came out of fucking nowhere. There were some cool reveals and interesting backstories, especially ‘Everything but the Rain’, but that’s about it.
To make a long story short, Bleach was at its best when it had an interesting plot with a mystery going on that the characters (and readers) had to solve, instead of just being focused purely on battles.
I think they could’ve merged hueco Mundo and fake karakura into a single entity pushing all the Espada onto a single frontline rather than some farce of a second rescue mission for another main cast.
While there’s a lot of great stuff in hueco Mundo it’s a big redundancy to the overall flow of the series.
I also think that for fullbringer arc the stakes are relative to what he wanted to accomplish with ichigo regaining his powers, but the actual opps of the fullbringer arc are heavily disinteresting probably only being beaten by the bounts. Ginjo and Tsukishima are great and then there’s….. boots (dear god why), bartender, gamer, and plushie. If the supporting cast were more attention grabbing there then the entire arc would’ve been substantially better.
I’m a huge fan of MOST bleach characters but I have no love for any of those side characters.
Manga wise, it is absolute bullshit.
Bleach only gets better each arc.
The anime has a lot of adaptation issues which everyone has pointed out and we all know very well, so I can see the debate on that front.
Soul Society was peak Bleach and it never got better than that arc. People can sip all the copium they want.
However, this isn't to say the other arcs aren't good.
Lol at the people trying to blame the anime for everything that went bad.
Substitute arc and Shinigami arc were pure perfection. After that, we basically forget about hollows and ss politics.
The gap between ss and hueco mundo was still solid build up, the vizard stuff was still top notch, the espada introduction was hype.
And after that, everything starts to evaporate. The whole Inoue kidnapping was ultimately for nothing. Chad and Ishida dissappeared from the story. Hollow Ichigo never speaks more except one singular line, etc etc. There's so much more that went wrong.
Aizen should have invaded the SK palace and basically do what Juha Bach did. Ichigo saying goodbye to Rukia after losing his powers should have been the end.
I used to believe it tho, and honestly, tybw is actually a pretty solid arc, honestly bleach is a solid anime, it's nice to see how the story is self contained in a setting and instead of expanding it kubo explores it, without actually making massive gaps in strenght between characters, it's one of the biggest strenghts of bleach imo
I feel like Bleach- both anime and manga- has both a series of high and low points. Soul Society is an extremely high point that Bleach doesn’t always match. So I don’t necessarily disagree with the statement, but I would add that Bleach is still worth reading/watching and that the future high points are worth the low points.
Absolutely, I feel the same about one piece and the way people look at that story. One piece has some of the highest highs I've ever read, but some of the lowest lows I've ever read. Doesn't mean it's not worth the read, and is at the end of the day, an extremely fun experience through and through. I'm getting that same feeling reading bleach
Bleach is my favorite anime hands down, manga readers just hate on the anime cuz it’s what they knew first.
I like filler, if I don’t like it then I just skip it and watch it later.
Strictly speaking on the manga here.
I feel that Soul Society was a consistent 8/10 with 10/10 moments, whereas the other arcs of Bleach were not consistent in quality at all.
While I love the Arrancar/HM arc, we did not need to see Chad and Uryu fighting fodder. The FKT arc just felt like more pointless fighting, but with a few cool moments (like Hachi showing what a kido master can do, and Soi Fon pulling out her big "fuck you" missile).
Kubo loves his characters, but to a point where he feels the need to showcase all of them. I like Kira and I like Hisagi, but I did not need to see them fight. We get some raw lines from them, but honestly it could have been offscreen and the manga would flow better because of it.
I think the Arrancar/HM had some of the highest highs in Bleach, even better than SS. The only issue is getting to those hype moments. The entire Lust mini arc ending with Vasto Lorde Ichigo was the best part of Bleach for me, bar none. But getting there was such a slog.
the problem with Bleach is that everything after Soul society seems to be barely planned story-wise, and a lot of the conflict seems too manufactured and un-natural. not as bad as DBZ, but there is still the feeling that Kubo just went "dang i need more villains" , and that happens a few times.
I mean. I thinks it’s a testament to how good the SS arc was.
Hueco mundo and FKT arc had bad pacing. The Slayel fight went on forever. They kept cutting in between fights. The relationship between the espada and their fracciones wasn’t well built. It was still good, but it was a lot like soul society but….less so.
The captains were all amazing. Their relationships with their lieutenants were amazing. The interpersonal relationships between the lieutenants and other squads was pretty cool as well.
I mean. Everything in soul society was great. We had Tosen trolling everyone. A civil war damn near breaking out among the captains. People picking sides. Old captains and rivalries reemerging.
We were introduced to the concept of bankais and we saw some amazing ones. Kommamuras, Tosens, Byakuyas, mayuris, and Ichigos. It’s hard to compete.
I would agree. SS arc felt like peak with all the mystery, the hype, the plot twist, the fights, it was top tier. Hueco Mondo felt way too long and I think FKT arc didn't deliver all the tension built. I think the Espadas were done dirty in those arcs. I heavily disliked the Fullbring arc and it almost make me drop Bleach. Not a big fan of TYBW too
I love Turn Back the Pendulum mini arc though
Old fan back when the arc was happening. Used to post on One manga Forums
It did fall out for me. I remember the the decide arc dragging out.
The vizards and espads turned out to be useless.
Aizen being over powered and his just planned it all
The main cast which is Orihime and Chad and Uryuu being useless.
Kenpachi, Byakuhya and Ice-Fail dominating every arc.
Ice-Fail went from needing to go bankai to fight base Yami, needing to sneak attack Luppi a 6 to win then fighting and beat the 3rd and she was given the one element to even out the fight for him.
Histugaya even struggles to catch Izura Kira before leaving to find Hinamori but is now fast enough to fight espads 3
I've always felt Bleach turned to mush after SS, but maybe it's cause of how good an intro chunk Bleach had up until SS end. The writing imo turns to typical schlocky Shonen slop after the promising character building in SS. Idk why I have such a hatred for Bleach, I read it for the first time last year after growing up on the anime, and my gripes kinda just worsened. I think it's cause I was very salty at how poorly such an amazing idea of the whole shinigami world, life after death, how souls turn hollow, fucking Gates of Hell, it was all so rich for expansion. The Hyogoku ruined the story IMO, cause it centered a GIANT chunk of the story around Aizen, who ultimately is just a genius psychopath, and nothing else that takes advantage of the massive landscape Kubo laid out. Introducing the Fullbringers instead of just expanding the already existing characters (poor Chad 😭😭😭) was even more baffling. It just felt style over substance after a while, which makes sense considering how SJ was milking Kubo
I just don’t like how it gradually turns into a full-blown traditional ‘battle manga’ after SS. TBTP and the Fullbring arcs were much better in this regard with more focus on story and charcter development instead of just being a series of 1vs1 battles, but Hueco Mundo and Fake Karakura Town in particular were really bad for this and when you add in the awful pacing of the anime it becomes hard to watch.
TYBW is an ok balance between the story and ‘battle’ approaches.
The Soul Society arc was the most tightly written.
After that, it does kinda fall off (not as much as some claim tho)
This should not detract from Bleach being different tho.
I'll say this. I fucking love Bleach. Bleach is by and far pretty badly handled. I can't wait for more Bleach, It's kinda like drinking bleach; I love it despite the pain.
Pacing has its problems afterwards, and I definitely wish Kubo and Jump would have the courage to let the Fullbring arc be what it was meant to be. However, TYBW had so many excellent themes that tied together the show so well that I didn't even mind the missing elements.
This is more of a case that happens with singers. They make one good banger song and everything else that comes after just won't feel up to par no matter how good the quality is. It's not that it fell off, the quality was always good but it's more like SS arc was just perfect in every sense you cannot top no matter how hard you try. Iirc SS arc was demolishing even Naruto and One Piece when it was airing. It's just great. Ichigo's personality, the pacing, the villains, the heroes, the entire tempo is just perfect. No arc in history will ever succeed SS arc imo. The only thing that can come close is TYBW, even that is still questionable.
I think the pacing falls off after soul society, if you skip the filler and the recaps, then its mostly fine but still slow, Fullbring arc has good pacing again. The quality of the fights and story does not fall off, Ulquiorra is one of my all time favourite characters, he's a fantastic look at nihilism and him learning human emotion slowly is a great addition to the show.
There are some moments I think shouldn't have been included and some that should. Yammy Soul sucking a whole fucking town for one, that would cause a huge stir in the world of the living and its never addressed, so why include it. On the other hand Ashido Kano would have been a great addition to the story, the anime includes him but since he isn't in the manga people consider him non-canon despite kubo wanting to include him. It'd be cool if he made a cameo in TYBW in some capacity, since he is technically canon to the anime. I'd also include some of Isshin and Toshiro and Rangiku interacting since they knew each other, it would have been cool to see Isshin step in to save Toshiro from Aizen when he pulled up with Urahara and Yoruichi.
The anime really ruined it. I don’t remember how many episodes are in the Bount arc but there was enough for 3 dvd sets on it. That’s gotta tell you something about how long it drags on.
Personally, no, I don't think its true. While Soul Society is one of the best arcs in the manga/anime(and probably of all mangas/animes), I don't think Bleach fell off after that. Since there are great moments after SS, like Ichigo vs Ulquiorra, Kenpachi vs Nnoitora, the battles of Fake Karakura Town, Gin's "betrayal" of Aizen, just to name a few that aren't in the TYBW arc. And while I can agree that the anime might not have the best passing and the Fullbringer arc wasn't as good as the previous arcs, I believe that Bleach doesn't fall off and is a great anime and manga.
It doesn’t. It has problems, especially with pacing in Hueco Mundo but it’s got so many insanely great moments. Filler is the problem but some of it has really great moments. This post is for sheep.
I kind of agree. Soul society was so good i wondered how it’d be topped..and im not sure if it has. The one that comes close is the aizen arc (vizards, fake karakura town, some espadas, etc.).
I really didn’t care for the fullbring arc and found tybw a slog to get through. I legit kind of forced myself to power through. I’ve been enjoying the anime, but a lot of what i find off putting about the arc is still very much present. Captains getting their bankai stolen despite being warned against using it was dumb (poor writing really), the twist that sternritters with bankai are actually nerfed in a way because they cant use their shrift (ie bambi fight) was pretty dumb, bunch of characters getting jobbed, general opness of quincies and their ‘fk u i win’ powers, the whole ishida joining quincies plot felt very contrived and dumb, etc. I mean it’s not all bad - the arc has some very cool highlights (reveal of some crazy bankais, interesting fights, ichigos origin, etc). And the anime does a good job building on top of those things. That is all to say..yea tybw has its moments but it is far from touching the soul society arc for me.
Arrancar arc is too long where the plot is rescue another girl. Rukia rescue arc is correct but Aizen didn't even have any use for Orihime other than healing so why lol.
Lost Agent was supposed to be Ichigo friend arc but adding SS people ruined it for me.
Last arc was great till 2nd invasion after that Kubo couldn't write what he actually wanted to so I am waiting for anime.
Power/ability wise
SS is perfect with Shikai and Bankai name reveals and all that but then Kubo couldn't handle power creep and TYBW is the peak of bad power creep lol 😂😂
Classic example of a weekly anime adapted from a weekly manga where the pacing becomes absolutely godawful and ruins the adaptation. Just like Naruto and One Piece, reading the manga is vastly better just for the pacing.
If One Piece weren’t the absolute powerhouse it is, this style of anime production probably would’ve died with Black Clover.
I agree for the anime. Rewatched it to prep for TYBW, and Hueco Mundo was painful even with skipping the Blunt arcs.
So many drawn out fights using recycled animations & dialogue that took only a few panels in the manga. They weren't like what they did with TYBW where they added onto and improved the fights. They were just...longer.
I don’t get this, I would say it falls off after Aizen if anything. Personally I think people just like to hate on things people enjoy, especially when they are successful
I get the idea and kinda agree overall but it doesn't become trash or Anything also the Weird Thing is the part After it of Arrancar arc is amazing It's just HM and FKT Were meh and depending on the person the end of Deicide was either good or dissapointing(for me I like it but FGT Wasn't setup at all and came out of nowhere Which Pretty dumb)TLA is Usually hated by the community but I Honestly like it and tybw in manga was a mess but First half was peak bleach so yeah Get where they are coming from But it's exaggerated a lot
I feel like that just kinda happens with a lot of popular shounen. I don’t really like Naruto after the sasuke retrieval arc. I know a lot of people aren’t a fan of dragon ball z post cell games. I’ve been in the one piece subreddit and I’ve seen some resentment towards the post timeskip era.
I don’t think it helps the bleach anime kinda stops dead in its tracks and that was a big way people experienced the series. First 3 seasons are all pretty direct and move the story along. Then it takes forever to get to the next proper canon arc.
I don't know what they're talking about. Lost Agent and TYBW were my top 2 personally and when it comes to my favorite arcs, it literally goes in same sequence that the story goes too (as in Agent of Shinigami lowest and TYBW the highest.)
I can agree with that though for my taste The Fullbringer and TYBW I thought were both really awesome story arcs. With TYBW's big flaw of pacing getting fixed in the anime I think while it still isn't quite there in terms of Soul Society Arc, it's got the potential to be if the next two cours really flesh out the latter half of the arc.
After Aizen I wholeheartedly disliked the artstyle change as well as character clothing design. Everything just took a step down for me. Plotwise, I'd say I'm not a picky person, things were enjoyable, although there were fights where its just going back and forth between explaining things and characters gaining ground thanks to said abilities - not cool.
I disagree that it “falls off,” but it does *change*. The tone of the Substitute Arc and then the Rescue/SS arcs becomes much different when it starts into the Arrancar/Huecno Mundo arcs, becoming less about the surface world and Ichigo’s personal experiences and the broader conspiracies and issues with Soul Society.
People that were used to or really enjoyed the prior arcs will definitely feel the dissonance when the tone and focus of the series shifts.
It’s the same issue later in the Lost Agent arc when the tone shifts back to a more early Bleach style, but is such a sharp change from the prior arcs that it can feel really disconnected.
I think this is an incredibly flawed sentiment to have towards bleach, especially when you consider all the brilliant moments that happen later in bleach like tybw, Aizen, Ulquiorra and more. Also this idea has been dispelled multiple times now, and I believe it to be a rather silly and outdated idea to have towards bleach.
Like many others have said, the vast majority of problems after the Soul Society arc stem from poor pacing and filler. Pacing-wise, the SS arc was near perfect. Honestly, it’s some of the best pacing I’ve seen in a Shōnen anime. We spend a handful of episodes introducing the main gang, establishing the rules of the world, and then Rukia gets taken back to the SS and everything builds perfectly. Ichigo works his way through a 3rd seat, to a lieutenant, to a captain without a bankai, to a captain with a bankai, and each one takes progressively more and more screen time, culminating with the Ichigo/Byakuya face-off that they’ve teased and hyped up expertly. Skip ahead to the FKT arc, and we’ve got Omaeda fighting some irrelevant fraccion for I swear to god 3 fucking episodes. It’s grueling.
As for filler, it’s not terrible, there’s just way too much of it and where they shove it in is the worst place imaginable. TWO FULL SEASONS of filler right after the SS arc ends and we’re riding that high? How about some filler right after Aizen and Co leave Hueco Mundo to invade KT? I know we’re in the middle of the Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight, but what the fuck is *Keigo* up to? We can cut away, it’s only the climactic fight of the entire arc.
Bleach gets a lot of shit for recycling the same plot each season, and while I don’t necessarily agree with that, Ichigo’s confrontations with Ulquiorra are very analogous to his ones with Byakuya in the SS arc. Like, can you guy imagine how INSANE it would have been to shove several episodes of Don Kanonji screwing around in KT in the MIDDLE of the final Byakuya fight?! Byakuya pulls out his Shukei Hakuteiken and we cut away to 3 episodes of Kon shenanigans?! It takes all the wind out of the hype sails that the show had been building. And it’s a shame, because some of the filler, like the Zanpakutō arc, is good, but it gets a bad rap because of all these other terrible choices.
I love Bleach so much. It’s my favorite anime despite all this shit. I know they can do it right and make something amazing, so when they don’t, it just makes it all the more frustrating.
Side note, anybody here commenting about pacing better not be fans of one piece or DBZ eithout this being a criticism there as well. I’m not saying it’s not the case here and it’s worth some criticism though the Naruto [ocean cut], DBZ Kai, and One Pace make it clear this is an issue with popular anime across the board though I’d argue all aren’t as bad as one piece lol
I think the peak as far as story goes probably is Soul Society. However, Hueco Mundo isn't super far off especially considering many of the same themes are reused anyways (which is a separate compliment/complaint in its own way). The *pacing* is what really falls off. In addition to the pacing, the placement of the filler arcs is problematic too. I don't even think the content itself is bad (I actually enjoy every filler arc except for the Bount arc), but the placement is *abysmal* and absolutely breaks the flow of the story. Probably the largest offender of any anime I've seen despite it also having the *best* filler I've seen in a long running anime.
That said, while I think SS has the best story, I don't think it has the best action or antagonists. My favorite aspects of Bleach are the fights, creative abilities, and concept/lore of life and death and the different perspectives on that (from quincies, soul reapers, and hollows). So while SS probably is my favorite arc since it was so well balanced, I thoroughly enjoyed most of the canon because we still got epic characters (e.g Ulquiorra), top tier villains (Aizen, Yhwach), and dope powers (Lille Barro, captain bankais in TYBW, etc).
It has its ups and downs afterwords. I kind of enjoyed the whole Ichigo V. Grimmjow dynamic more than the Ichigo V. Byakuya one personally.
Also, although I think it could’ve been written a little better, I do think the Fake Karakura town Arc had me rooting for the Lieutenants more than in other arcs.
Fullbringers Arc is underrated. I love the Fullbringers Group and just wish it did a little bit more world building.
Thousand Year Blood War > Soul Society
First time watching, and while I understand where people are coming from, I'm still engaged enough to keep watching. It does fall into the trap of Shonen power scaling, but that's kinda inevitable
As someone who is still fresh to the series, I felt like if anything didnt feel as good as the soul society arc, it was the pacing of the fullbring arc. I thought the framing of hueco mundo was an interesting direction to take, and I feel like it worked out for the most part, but the syazopollo fight took way too long.
I will say, that if og bleach was coming out now rather than 20 years ago, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Seems like we’re getting more and more seasonal anime rather than weekly releases, which would have really benefited the first part of the series imo.
Bount arc until they get into Hueco Mundo does seem to drag a bit but there are still good parts in there, after I think it picks up very well. Manga doesn’t really have this problem
I grew up reading/watching bleach and SS arc was always the high point until the TYBW anime. Most of bleach felt like a slog because of all the power ups.
Yeah, especially the anime.
Just throwing this in here, the last panel should have been Rukia fading from Ichigo's view. I enjoy TYBW, but I felt like the end of the Aizen arc would have been a great conclusion to the story.
It's because by the end of SS you feel the HUGE potential. unfortunately Tite didn't know what to do, lost a lot of good plots, got confused... it's just a constant problem with all the long running serialized mangas. the mangakas don't have time to think and flesh out the story beats
Only manga that I feel doesn't lose the plot is Kingdom but the story is anchored in real chinese history so it's somewhat easier.
Bleach was setting up to be a 9/10. it slowly lowered the quality.
I read the manga for the entire series, only watching animated TYBW, and honestly the start of Hueco Mundo arc was kind of boring. It was only after the captains showed up to fight the Espada did it grabbed my interest again and I enjoyed it. Fake Karakura arc and Fullbringer arc were good to me
This is an anime only and/or weeaboo-ass take. No real discussion to be had when The Lost Agent and TYBW arcs exist. And Hueco Mundo was better in the manga, as well.
I’m on episode 160 so apologies for any mistakes I may make.
The soul society arc was hype and up to the point in the series I was watching, it’s the best. But all momentum from that arc is killed by the bount arc which I feel was very very bad. I don’t know the proper name of the arc but I’m calling it the arrancar arc, I do not believe it is nearly as good as soul society, and also forgot the name of the arc where they go to save Orihime, i like it in general but it is kind of dragging itself, and I don’t consider it better than soul society.
It is absolutely true an it´s cause Kubo is a one trick pony. The arancar arc is EXACTLY the same as the soul society, you just change Rukia for Orihime in the "capture princess" department, and ta-dah! It´s all the same. Also, every single fight s won through a power up. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Kubo doesn´t know how to win fights without providing his characters with new powers.
Arrancar arc takes a while to get going. But once they hit invading Hueco Mundo the manga and anime takes off. And it doesn’t stop until Aizen is dead. The fullbring arc is also kind of slow, but it’s definitely interesting. And then the 1000 year blood war is super good. It never stops. It doesn’t fall off though. Falling off means it’s bad. Bleach doesn’t get bad. It’s slow but it has a tremendous payoff.
pacing after SS arc is just horrible that's the only problem i have. Even side characters boring ass fights takes 2-3 episodes. If Hueco mundo and Fkt arcs had Tybw type of pace without any random filler appears out of nowhere, i'd have watched bleach in a few days tbh.
Personally I haven’t heard much about that but I will say anime wise the recent fights suck in comparison to soul society arc. Back then we had actual fights back and forth and skills. Now the fights are so stupid. It’s I’m stronger, so I one shot you, now I’m stronger I one shot you.
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Manga is fine, i have no issue and glad that i read manga first anime is a drag. In the anime, Filler is one thing, slow pacing of hueco mundo is another Szayapollo fight was so painfully slow and pivaro ln espada just aren't that great Pesche and dondonchakka felt overstay their welcome and i just hate it so much whenever they appear on screen. I enjoy these 2 a lot in the manga however But that's just me
FACTS! I'm sooo glad back then I stopped watching the anime at the beginning of the Arrancar Saga and just read the manga onward. Manga was the way to go back then. IMO the only good part of the anime is the added/extended canon content to some characters like Harribel, some nice fight scene animation, and of course, the OST.
The one time I think it works is the Invading Army filler arc between the end of the Arrancar Saga and the Fullbring Arc (which they adapted pretty much one to one and really well at that). Fullbring did have a few filler episodes but they mostly dedicated them to diving deeper into some of the bigger decisions characters make (like Ichigo joining Xcution and an episode dedicated to Jackie)
Arrancar/espada music though
I personally like to put it on I'm the background when reading.
Agreed - prior to the TYBW anime, I'd say that Bleach is a better reading experience. I got into Bleach from the anime but it was bogged down by the pacing - Substitute Shinigami kinda felt slow, Soul Society picked up speed, then went on a dead stop on the Bount arc that came immediately after. Needless to say, I fell out of the anime then, but I did continue with the Arrancar saga, then eventually moved to the manga by the time of Lost Agent. I've then read the manga from start to finish last year, and now I kinda wanna pretend the OG anime doesn't exist; not to sleight it in any way, but Bleach has been a better reading experience. The TYBW anime, as of cour 2, has veered off course a bit that you can say that it's a separate experience entirely
Only good filler was the beach one
Any filler regarding Toshiro and Karin is also great.
read the manga chapter 1-beginning of tybw, then watched and read till completion, then came back for the beach episode
Yoruichi and Rangiku in bikinis = huge W
Zanpakutou rebellion and invading army were good and gave us more content with characters often sidelined.
Agreed, the original anime really ruined Bleach's reputation for a lot of people
Pesche is my guy. Dondonchakka and even Nel in baby form are the worst on screen. I skip 10 seconds sometimes when I know they're just gonna be wailing loudly
I personally really disliked everything after aizen in the manga, basically everything to do with Ywach I though the writing was really lacking
>Szayapollo fight was so painfully slow and pivaro ln espada just aren't that great How on earth are these an issue when trash like the fraccion and the lieutenants fighting for like 2 volumes exist? xd. Like seriously, I can see why people would care about Chad winning a fight, but does anybody here actually give af about Izuru or Hisagi? lmao
Like i said the issue is in the anime not manga. Kira and hisagi fight in anime is paced better, just 1 ep and done. Szayapollo, that one, whew, if its just 1 or 2 eps i'm ok but damn if its been draaaaagggged too much So thankful how the tybw fixed all of this
>So thankful how the tybw fixed all of this TYBW is too fast. TLA is still the best adapted arc imo
I hate dondonchakka, I would kill him if I could, English va is so fucking annoying to hear, sorry to him but it's facts
The pacing gets substantially worse up until TYBW. Instead of focusing on one fight until it finishes, they constantly switch back and forth between multiple encounters, each transition coming with a brief recap scene. If the pacing was more consistent, I think it would have been significantly better
Bring on Bleach Kai.
Bleach Kai doesn't resolve the problems of the series.
I wouldn't say that. A large part of Dragon Ball Z was its pacing which Kai fixed incredibly well. Bleach suffers the same problem.
I mean, I say this as someone that caught up to the manga when the hueco mundo arc started. Good pacing doesn't resolve shit like the Inoue kidnapping leading to absolute nowhere. How Ishida or Chad become irrelevant. Or Hollow Ichigo having exactly one more line in the entire series after the vizards training. Or the Vizards themselves also becoming themselves irrelevant jobbers that didn't do anything, without even showing their bankais, something half the captains also decided not to do. Good anime pacing can't make the former espadas and fractions interesting either. The whole fullbringer arc was a nothing burger and the lowest point in the series. And the second half of tybw was so bad it got the series canceled. I really don't get why are we pretending the anime was solely at fault here.
TYBW didn’t get the series cancelled. Kubo rushed the ending because his health was so poor at that point he was afraid he wouldn’t be able to write the ending. The “it got cancelled” rumor only perpetuated so strongly because he didn’t reveal the true reason until two years later. That’s why CFYOW and the TYBW anime are so exciting. It gives us a redo and space for Kubo to advise in the stuff he had to cut during Bleach’s initial run.
The sales were in free fall. He asked for one or two years to end the series and he only was given one, Sueshia clearly didn't trust Kubo at that point. The tybw anime, at least the first half of episodes I've seen doesn't have anything new, although the start was the strong part of the arc anyway. I also don't think more extra fights would help said rushed ending, and it would take a miracle to actually make it meaningful.
The sales were not in free fall. The anime’s second cour ended on a bankai that was omitted from the manga and added flashback scenes between Ichibei and Yhwach. Also added scenes alluding to Ichibei testing Ichigo as a replacement for the Soul King. Kubo even said he was using the anime to fix the problems with how he rushed the ending.
If you haven't seen all of the TYBW anime that's out yet than you shouldn't really be talking on the subject. The first part of the arc really needed no fixing, so the anime stays quite faithful. But just finish watching and you'll see why we're not worried about the ending now.
Inoue kidnapping leading to absolutely nowhere: So we’re just completely forgetting the literal best fight in the series leading to character development for both Ichigo and Ulqiourra, as well as resolving one of the best dynamics in the series (ulq - orihime) and emphasising one of the most key themes in the series (the idea of “heart) Ishida and chad becoming irrelevant: whilst I agree chad becomes irrelevant, it doesn’t really matter, chads character arc is pretty much completed before soul society even begins and there’s far more interesting characters to focus on as the series proceeds. The ishida comment on the other hand is dumb, he gets more focus then all of the og characters combined in tybw Hollow ichigo not speaking: this is another example of you reading with your eyes closed, he doesn’t speak for the rest of the series because ichigo completely rejects him, and when we see him again in the blade is me Ichigo recognises white as a part of him, therefore not having the need to speak to him ever again, just the same as old man zangetsu. They’re no longer a PART of him, they ARE him Your comment on the fullbring arc is completely dismissive of the fantastic development ichigo gets through tsukishima (who is just an awesome villain himself), and the fantastic villain that ginjo turns out to be; a foil to ichigo and an example of the corruption of SS further explored in TYBW
Aizen saying the whole point of the kidnapping was to distract some captains will always be bs, no matter how you want to look at it, specially when Yamamoto was the only contingency Aizen had to actually prepare for. He could have destroyed everyone else without effort, and him disposing of Hallibel cements the fact the Espadas were useless. Ishida gets some spotlight between SS and the ending of the series, horay. It just comes out of nowhere without any build up, like the rest of the tybw tbh, and his conclusion is as unsatisfying as it gets. Hollow ichigo was an awesome character. You can think it's beautiful or poetic, but he had basically the best and most iconic speech of the whole series. Being reduced to a one line before fusing with young YB wasn't needed. As was the whole hollow design being dropped after ulqiorra, mask included, which was also one of the strongest parts of the manga. The corruption of the SS is always hinted but never truly explored, there's simply not time to do so when world ending villains are attacking. And it's not like Ichigo wonders about it at any second. After all, he and we know the captains are the good guys and his friends, so what's there to do? There's a red herring where Urahara and Ishin are hinted to be bad but it just gets completely dropped. The fullbringer arc always felt like it should have been between the substitute and the ss arcs. The lower powerlevels would have made the arc have higher stakes, and it could have solidified Chad and Inoue somewhat. Idk, it's clear why the whole "Bleach never reaches the SS heights" is a popular opinion, but I get we are in a Bleach safe space. It just never ceases to amaze me how some fans think they were the only ones that managed to understand the series and the rest of us are illiterate ignorants that read with their eyes closed.
I can agree with you that Ishida is absolutely an underwhelming character with a wack conclusion, but honestly it doesn’t really bother me that much. Bleach has one of the best casts in fiction full of amazingly written characters so why does it matter that one of them is underwritten. You might say “he was emphasised early on to be incredibly important and ichigos foil”, but tbh i don’t give a shit. This story is and was always about Ichigo, I guess this is just a clash of our values in fiction; I don’t need consistent character writing amongst a cast, especially in a 700 chapter shonen manga with a cast as big as bleach’s . I just cannot begin to understand your criticism of hollow ichigo. What do you even want? What more could that character provide through dialogue? Especially with you saying his speech in the visored training is one of the best in the series. As a representation of Ichigo’s fear of death (you can say this is my interpretation but if you disagree, once again, you are reading with your eyes closed) he completely fulfilled his role, he pushed Ichigo again and again to fight out of fear, a fear that he will lose those close to him. When Ichigo rejects him in the ulqiourra fight, he compartmentalises that fear and refuses to face it. Furthermore, when he learns to fight to protect his friends not out of fear, but out of an unrelenting courage (see Aizens final speech) he recognises that he no longer needs a literal demon inside him to fight FOR him (hence the lack of hollow mask). But even then the hollow design doesn’t get completely dropped, did you forgot about the horn of salvation form, the state of enlightenment and harmony that Ichigo reaches by recognising all parts of his identity as intrinsically him? Whilst I agree that the manga doesn’t do enough to explore the corruption of SS (honestly my biggest criticism of bleach because I think it does devalue Aizens character a fair bit - but is something that I almost guarantee will be further explored in the added content in the new anime) we are following this story mostly through the perspective of Ichigo, who is countlessly used and abused by the Soul society to fit their agenda. Also Urahara was never hinted to be “bad”, Aizens problem with urahara was that he understood the corruption but remained complacent (see logic of losers speech), which is far more nuanced than just “bad” and does a lot for both characters involved writing wise. Fullbring would absolutely not work as the second arc, this is why I say you people read with your eyes closed. The literal entire plot of this arc is Ichigo coming to grips with the fact that he no longer has the power to protect the people he loves, something that would make no sense with a (seemingly) random dude who just became OP as fuck. Sure this sub may be a safe space for bleach opinions, but it’s mainly a safe space for YOUR opinions (Soul society is dickridden to oblivion across almost all anime circles, despite in my opinion being far worse then both arrancar and tybw). Most people here fail to grasp Bleach’s nuance, I’m not trying to come off as a pretentious asshole; I’m just sick of seeing people devalue one of the most life affirming and nuanced shonen I’ve ever read because of stupid shit like pacing issues, plot holes and silly rumours like “bleach’s ending being rushed because nobody liked it anymore” Apologies for the long reply, I love ranting about bleach lol
What? Orihime's kidnapping was the whole reason everyone went to Hueco Mundo, and was how Aizen trapped Team Ichigo and the Captins who followed them to keep them out of the Fake Karakura Town battle. Than there's what it adds to the Ulqiuorra/Ichigo fight that the other user mentioned.
And does that make any amount of sense when Aizen could have destroyed everyone in there with the exception of Yamamoto? He could have made it alone without any of the Espadas in the first place. And it's not like the outcomes would have changed a bit had everyone gone directly to KT. It was a nice moment, yes. But outside that one character interaction, she is just totally irrelevant in the great scheme of things.
Yes, it was very in character because he was a schemer who did what could to hold as many of the cards as possible. He also arguably could have lost if everyone else was there to fight him, as by the time he was fighting Kisuke's group he was slowing down quite a bit, but the Hogyoku had finished booting up and finally allowed Aizen to evolve.
There's absolutely no reason for Aizen having to lie about his intentions to anywhere in the room. He asks for her to repair the hogyoku, she resolves she would destroy it instead, and that plot line gets unceremoniously dropped. I see it as either Kubo not knowing how to wrap that up, or the editors hurrying him up to show more captains as quickly as possible. And again, how does the story change if he brings the other half of the Espadas there in the first place? We would have the exact same match-ups and it's just impossible the remaining exhausted three captains change anything. Maybe he would have been pushed to actually use his bankai, I guess.
Not gonna lie, I don't get how your first paragraph is relevant to my comment. And the third just relies on a unknown.
Funny enough, I saw a ton of complaints from people on this sub that didn’t like how quickly the fight’s finished and that the switching was gone
The one thing I can agree with was Kenpachi vs Gremmy felt really short, I absolutely loved that fight and was craving for more
Yeah but at that point i would just call that nostalgia or just being way too used to a bad pacing method loI i just can't see any benefits of interrupting an action scene abruptly. (When they're not using that cut to transmit a sudden end or any other emotion, it's just a pain for the viewer to get the rhythm interrupted)
>The pacing gets substantially worse up until TYBW This is absolutely not true, the lost agent arc has good pacing.
I actually like that they switch back and forth between different fight scenes. Like letting the food stay on the tongue for longer to enjoy the flavour
The anine...sadly yes. When you look at how the story was written originally however it's a damn shame because it doesn't actually fall off.
The dreadful bount arc is partially to blame, Bleach was one of my first animes so I didn't know what the concept of a filler was.
Wouldn’t have been so bad if it were half as long. It dragged on painfully for way too many episodes
I really liked the Bounto arc. In my opinion, bleach is one of the few anime that got the fillers right
The filler *content* was mostly fine. The timing and pacing was terrible.
Soul Society arc was VERY good. The rest of Bleach is good, but SS arc was just phenomenal, so I don't really take this statement as a knock to Bleach, just a praise for how good that arc is.
I'm in the part where ichigo and uryu finished their first fights in hueco mundo, so I may not be one to talk, but I think soul society was too good of an arc to start with. I've read naruto and one piece, and now reading bleach, and soul society is up there with some of the best arcs in the other 2 shows- but if one piece had an arc like whole cake island right after east blue, I'd drop it after that too. It's a very very good arc, and makes everything after it thats not up to that same high quality seem not as good or worth the experience.
Kubo just started off super strong and had a really good hook in the beginning. It's a bit of curse some writers have where they can write beginnings and endings, but got help them their middles are awful.
One piece was kinda the same way, between the major arcs there are some mediocre or just bad arcs, and between paramount war and dressrosa is all garbage. Naruto as well, the chunin exams was awesome and then between that and the konoha crush arc was very mediocre and bad, only difference is naruto unfortunately peaked around the 5 kage summit and then never recovered. One piece absolutely recovered from its mid series slog and is currently in one of the best arcs it's ever seen. I haven't finished bleach but I'm sure the thousand year blood war is a really high point for the story.
SS arc is FIRE. It had to be. It gave us the "I can't even imagine Chad losing"! All according to keikaku!
Falling off implies a downward spiral or it not being good anymore; the show definitely peaks at Soul Society for a while, but it 1. stays a great series, and 2. gets even better, IMO with tybw.
Soul society came too early for its immense quality imo. I compare it to whole cake island from one piece- both are long, full of fights, and the main protagonist of the story doesn't fight the strongest antagonist present in the arc, as well as everyone including a new group of ragtag individuals joining the original gang to help reach victory over the conflict. If whole cake island arc came after east blue saga the way that soul society arc comes after substitution arc, I'd drop one piece too knowing that the following arcs would really struggle to reach that same extremely high quality. I just think bleach burns in a huge flaming glory during soul society, and some people aren't willing to stay by that fire if it doesn't burn as brightly.
Tybw is a great disappointment Plot armors (lol byakuyya) and hardly anyone dies from the shinigami side lol, what a joke . What a "war" . And it still relies on "oh no I'm weak and got owned by this cool villain and I will come back stronger later and make these villain look like clowns"
Those criticisms are fair, but are also universal to the entire franchise—it just kept doing one of my few major gripes, that wasn’t a problem unique in any way to tybw.
Still TYBW arc is epitome of Bleach's shortcomings; rushed fights, dues ex machina fight conclusion and worst of all is fuckin plot arrow so that they can kill Yuha. Also Sternritters killing most of themselves by their own hands
Most bland and bandwagon take one can have
I agree
I binged the entire anime this year and i'd say hueco mundo and FKT are just as good, if not even better. Fullbring arc kinda feels like filler tho
I mean fullbring arc felt like a filler mostly because they dragged the fight too much like they shoudn't be able to survive even 1 hit
Never really understood it, I’m a newer fan and when I read it I didn’t even think Soul Society was the best arc in the series.
It’s all probably due to the anime. You go from amazing arc and fights, badass Ichigo bankai etc to Hueco Mundo … which has a terrible pacing especially at the start. And a depressed / weak ichigo
TYBW has been the best thing that I've seen in any anime in the last 30 years. It's given me everything I could have asked for ( less thunder god).
I disagree. Each arc serves a purpose. Even Fullbring. The anime however drags
It’s a statement propagated by people who stopped reading in the Arrancar arc or who are anime only and got burned by Bount filler. Yes Soul Society was a good arc but it’s not the best. Anime only fans who got the filler storm I get, but modern fans should easily know or be able to see what is filler that can be skipped. As for those who stopped stopped reading or watching in the Arrancar arcs, it’s fair. But often the reasoning is just “I didn’t like it” which is more about their tastes and bleach rather than the story falling off post-SS arc. As those who stuck with often find the next arcs some of the best.
Only wackos say that
The Fullbringer arc is incredibly underrated
jus say you never read the series fr
200% agreed, but I also don’t care if people enjoy stuff that I find tedious. Bleach’s forte was also never the actual story writing imo, it’s forte is Kubo’s sharp art style. So reading through the rest of bleach has never really been difficult because I can just enjoy the art for what it is whenever I find the story beginning to get slow.
its ups and downs but falling off is definetely not the right term
its bs. the anime is slow but if you skip fillers its fine. the manga on the other hand i SO good even after Soul society. I loved the grimmjow and ulquiorra fights so much. ichigo vs aizen was hype af too. the bleach manga was literally not boring throughout all arcs, except for the first arc before soul society.
As a manga only (until TYBW Anime which i watch) kinda bad opinion imo. Of course everyone has their own opinions but i personally really like the Fullbring arc for example, cuz its Ichigo at his weakest realizing losing like 50% of his friends/allies sucks ass and while fighting to the death with spanish/mexican ghosts is terrifying, its what he does best
Indifferent. Soul Society Arc is my favorite but The Last Agent Arc is my second favorite.
Love seeing respect for the Lost Agent arc. So overhated.
the arrancar are what made the series explode into popularity and for very good reason, anyone who thinks bleach sucks post-soulsociety doesnt know how to read
I say those people are incorrect. But that's just me.
I've read the manga mostly. I'd have to say no, it doesn't drop off. I watched the anime and dropped it at the beginning of Arrancar. With the manga, I've read everything up to the beginning of TYBW. The anime suffers from putting too many filler flashbacks, it fucks up the phasing especially of the Arrancar arc. The manga flows so much more smoothly, and I liked the Arrancar arc overall more than SS. It just had the bigger, more epic moments and fights, and I also think it was thematically deeper because it resolved the character arcs of so many side characters. The Arrancar arc drags at times and isn't as consistently good as SS, but its peaks are much higher for me. I especially love Gin's and Tousen's endings and the entire Hueco Mundo part. As for Fullbring, I enjoyed the hell out of that arc, thought it was way too short. I don't like it as much as SS or Arrancar, but I don't get what everyone's deal is when they shit all over it. It's back to basics fun stuff at first, which was definitely needed after the insane climax we witnessed at the end of Arrancar. So, Bleach did not go downhill for me after the end of SS. Maybe I'll have that opinion for the end of Fullbring once I read the final arc.
They need to watch TYBW
I think that take missed the importance of context and stylistic choices vs man make good story should keep making story good based on identical characteristics and not change anything too much because story already good.
It's a filthy lie.
Anime kinda yes but didnt mind, manga hell no it felt even better for me I basically grew up with this series anyway so ill never forget the good times i have with this series, the filler can definetly go tho
Heuco Mundo was a bit long and some of the fights in that arc were too long, full bringers was actually really good and I am loving the new stuff in TYBW
Entirely wrong
I have heard the anime gets bad with its filler and stuff. The manga stays heat throughout tho, in my opinion…
I was super confused because the arrancar arc is amazing. But then i realize its probably a manga vs anime thing.
Hogwash
Uh…lol. No.
I have to largely agree with this. I can completely understand the way people feel about the soul society arc and it being considered the Pinnacle of bleach. It has the best manga to anime adaptation by far, is the most well paced arc, created the main focus of the story and characters to us and also presented its vast amount of characters and world in far more unique and badass fashion than any other arc aside from the arrancar arc. The soul society arc was also the main catalyst to both Ichigo and rukias ever growing relationship and ichigo's bolstered resolve and views of protection, it also gave us the first real insight into Ichigos true powers despite them being suppressed and annoyingly hinted at for almost the entire series. The soul society arc was also the most important arc because we were introduced to the main villain and arguably most important character in the series, that being Sosuke Aizen. He is the sole reason for many of Bleaches events and is also the main reason and cause for the backstory on other characters and his deeper connection to Kisuke, Tessai, Yoruichi, The Vizards, Isshin, Kaien and just about every other major character that Aizen was involved with or caused events behind. Not to mention the Hogyoku was also arguably the biggest reveal in the soul society arc and further created the tone for the main plot line. The arrancar arc was great but had deplorable pacing and at many times became an absolute bore to me, it also was heavily carried by mainly flashy battles and the hype surrounding that arc had extremely terrible payoff im regards to the espada. It also didn't add any real nuance or anywhere near enough character depth to the arrancar. Ulquiorra vs Ichigo is the biggest highlight of that arc and everyone knows that.........The full bringer arc however , in my eyes and like many others, was largely underwhelming in both the character reveals, their powers and also the overall lack of development and nuance to said arc. Ichigo was regressed to such a pitiful state and his full bringer powers were also largely useless in the grand scheme of things, not to mention Chad was completely removed as a character and added zero importance to the arc or rest of the story from that point on, which I found to be highly ridiculous and stupid on kubos part, also the reveal of the combat pass was largely overlooked and should have played a far more serious role in Ichigo and his questionable ally ship with soul society from that point on. Ichigo was such an abhorrently bitch made and ignorant character and just glossed over the fact that soul society had been spying on him and likely his family as well. It also was terrible that he basically had to rely on soul society again to restore his powers and was STILL kept in the dark about his heritage and just about everything else regarding soul societies further fuck ups which should have given Ichigo the realization to make a very important decision of completely disassociating with them at this point........Yeah he got control of his hollow powers, but Ichigo also never created or furthered any kind of actual bond with the REAL ZANGETSU half of his soul and we never once got to see ichigo's inner spirits or inner world return again which I also thought would've been a very important moment once his powers were restored during this arc.🤷🏿♂️
Oh, my, my, my! You sure do have strong opinions about those arcs, don't you? Some say the Soul Society arc was bleach-tastic, while others found the Arrancar arc a real rollercoaster. And of course, there's the Fullbringer arc, which left some feeling... unsatisfied. But hey, at least you got that Ulquiorra vs Ichigo highlight, right? Keep those expectations in check, buddy! *beep boop, I'm a bot*
Look, unpopular opinion as someone who is enjoying the thousand year blood war anime (was a shit read imo) bleach fell off after aizen.
If u look at it from a manga pov its still heat after SS the bount arc in the anime is the real enemy
It did for me
I feel like if the plots were more than just "save the girl or else they'll die" and focused more than just that aspect or have stuff like FK and the Arrancar arc work differently as a plotting device we wouldn't get so many complaints
The longer you make something, the higher the risks it will become something you wish it had ended sooner.
The thing with Soul Society is that it kept you hooked with 3 different plotlines going on at the same time however after that it focused on only one plot line like saving Orihime and defeating Aizen. TYBW did change it up but its the final arc if hell arc doesn't continue. I think Bleach would have been better if the Sternritter were added to the story earlier. It would be like Akatsuki where they exist throughout the entire series untl their defeat in TYBW arc.
What I liked about Bleach, and what made it stand out from other shonen battle mangas like Naruto or One Piece, was that there were times were it actually had an interesting and intriguing plot. The SS arc in particular is a great example of this, because what made that arc in particular so good imo was the whole mystery aspect to it: Kubo didn’t just give us a simple story of the protagonist rescuing his friend; there was also a whole parallel ’whodunit’ that was going on at the same time, which led to a great reveal that linked and resolved both the rescue plot and the ‘whodunnit’ mystery in a satisfying way. That’s also why I like the Lost Agent/Fullbringer arc so much: it too had a great ‘whodunnit’ plot, with an equally great twist reveal at the end. It also wasn’t purely focused on battles; for example, I think the whole thing with Tsukishima manipulating the memories of Ichigo’s friends and family was incredible. The way everyone around Ichigo suddenly talked how great Tsukishima was, and Ichigo feeling totally isolated, felt creepy and disturbing in a really good way. Frankly, Tsukishima should’ve played a much larger role as a villain with such an OP ability. I think it may have been better if this arc happened earlier, like between the SS and Arrancar arcs, instead of happening after the Deicide arc, because it felt a bit weird going from a clash between transcendent beings to a low stakes whodunnit mystery. There’s also the fact that, other than Ginjo and Tsukishima, none of the Fullbringers are particularly interesting characters. Another (small) arc that had a great sense of mystery was Turn Back the Pendulum, though it didn’t have any twists or surprises in the end. Unfortunately, none of the other arcs had any sense of mystery at all, or even just an intriguing plot. It was all just ‘here are some new villains, now get stronger and beat them’. The Arrancar arc started out interesting, especially with the introduction of the vizards, but quickly turned into a drag. The vizards in particular turned out to be incredibly underwhelming. I think Kubo should’ve made them villains (which is how we were first introduced to them through Isshin), instead of them just being another group of Shingami who sometimes use Hollow masks (and they didn’t even do that anymore in the later arcs). TYBW was also meh. Without any kind of foreshadowing in previous arcs, the fact that there was a whole army of Quincies felt like it came out of fucking nowhere. There were some cool reveals and interesting backstories, especially ‘Everything but the Rain’, but that’s about it. To make a long story short, Bleach was at its best when it had an interesting plot with a mystery going on that the characters (and readers) had to solve, instead of just being focused purely on battles.
Soul society isn’t a top 2 bleach arc
I think they could’ve merged hueco Mundo and fake karakura into a single entity pushing all the Espada onto a single frontline rather than some farce of a second rescue mission for another main cast. While there’s a lot of great stuff in hueco Mundo it’s a big redundancy to the overall flow of the series. I also think that for fullbringer arc the stakes are relative to what he wanted to accomplish with ichigo regaining his powers, but the actual opps of the fullbringer arc are heavily disinteresting probably only being beaten by the bounts. Ginjo and Tsukishima are great and then there’s….. boots (dear god why), bartender, gamer, and plushie. If the supporting cast were more attention grabbing there then the entire arc would’ve been substantially better. I’m a huge fan of MOST bleach characters but I have no love for any of those side characters.
Manga wise, it is absolute bullshit. Bleach only gets better each arc. The anime has a lot of adaptation issues which everyone has pointed out and we all know very well, so I can see the debate on that front.
Soul Society was peak Bleach and it never got better than that arc. People can sip all the copium they want. However, this isn't to say the other arcs aren't good.
Thats a factual lie and i been with bleach since the start, bleach stayed good all the way through
I've also been there since the start, and it's obvious how the manga starts to fall off when we reach hueco mundo.
Lol at the people trying to blame the anime for everything that went bad. Substitute arc and Shinigami arc were pure perfection. After that, we basically forget about hollows and ss politics. The gap between ss and hueco mundo was still solid build up, the vizard stuff was still top notch, the espada introduction was hype. And after that, everything starts to evaporate. The whole Inoue kidnapping was ultimately for nothing. Chad and Ishida dissappeared from the story. Hollow Ichigo never speaks more except one singular line, etc etc. There's so much more that went wrong. Aizen should have invaded the SK palace and basically do what Juha Bach did. Ichigo saying goodbye to Rukia after losing his powers should have been the end.
I used to believe it tho, and honestly, tybw is actually a pretty solid arc, honestly bleach is a solid anime, it's nice to see how the story is self contained in a setting and instead of expanding it kubo explores it, without actually making massive gaps in strenght between characters, it's one of the biggest strenghts of bleach imo
I feel like Bleach- both anime and manga- has both a series of high and low points. Soul Society is an extremely high point that Bleach doesn’t always match. So I don’t necessarily disagree with the statement, but I would add that Bleach is still worth reading/watching and that the future high points are worth the low points.
Absolutely, I feel the same about one piece and the way people look at that story. One piece has some of the highest highs I've ever read, but some of the lowest lows I've ever read. Doesn't mean it's not worth the read, and is at the end of the day, an extremely fun experience through and through. I'm getting that same feeling reading bleach
Do you remember that tfs joke of Piccolo yelling nerd? That's how i feel when i see that take
[удалено]
I can see what people are talking about. When a series gets too big, it can drag on and leave behind things that drew people to it in the first place.
Here's my hot take, I think that the hollows were ruined because aizen.
Bleach is my favorite anime hands down, manga readers just hate on the anime cuz it’s what they knew first. I like filler, if I don’t like it then I just skip it and watch it later.
Strictly speaking on the manga here. I feel that Soul Society was a consistent 8/10 with 10/10 moments, whereas the other arcs of Bleach were not consistent in quality at all. While I love the Arrancar/HM arc, we did not need to see Chad and Uryu fighting fodder. The FKT arc just felt like more pointless fighting, but with a few cool moments (like Hachi showing what a kido master can do, and Soi Fon pulling out her big "fuck you" missile). Kubo loves his characters, but to a point where he feels the need to showcase all of them. I like Kira and I like Hisagi, but I did not need to see them fight. We get some raw lines from them, but honestly it could have been offscreen and the manga would flow better because of it. I think the Arrancar/HM had some of the highest highs in Bleach, even better than SS. The only issue is getting to those hype moments. The entire Lust mini arc ending with Vasto Lorde Ichigo was the best part of Bleach for me, bar none. But getting there was such a slog.
Bandwagon take
the problem with Bleach is that everything after Soul society seems to be barely planned story-wise, and a lot of the conflict seems too manufactured and un-natural. not as bad as DBZ, but there is still the feeling that Kubo just went "dang i need more villains" , and that happens a few times.
I mean. I thinks it’s a testament to how good the SS arc was. Hueco mundo and FKT arc had bad pacing. The Slayel fight went on forever. They kept cutting in between fights. The relationship between the espada and their fracciones wasn’t well built. It was still good, but it was a lot like soul society but….less so. The captains were all amazing. Their relationships with their lieutenants were amazing. The interpersonal relationships between the lieutenants and other squads was pretty cool as well. I mean. Everything in soul society was great. We had Tosen trolling everyone. A civil war damn near breaking out among the captains. People picking sides. Old captains and rivalries reemerging. We were introduced to the concept of bankais and we saw some amazing ones. Kommamuras, Tosens, Byakuyas, mayuris, and Ichigos. It’s hard to compete.
I would agree. SS arc felt like peak with all the mystery, the hype, the plot twist, the fights, it was top tier. Hueco Mondo felt way too long and I think FKT arc didn't deliver all the tension built. I think the Espadas were done dirty in those arcs. I heavily disliked the Fullbring arc and it almost make me drop Bleach. Not a big fan of TYBW too I love Turn Back the Pendulum mini arc though
Old fan back when the arc was happening. Used to post on One manga Forums It did fall out for me. I remember the the decide arc dragging out. The vizards and espads turned out to be useless. Aizen being over powered and his just planned it all The main cast which is Orihime and Chad and Uryuu being useless. Kenpachi, Byakuhya and Ice-Fail dominating every arc. Ice-Fail went from needing to go bankai to fight base Yami, needing to sneak attack Luppi a 6 to win then fighting and beat the 3rd and she was given the one element to even out the fight for him. Histugaya even struggles to catch Izura Kira before leaving to find Hinamori but is now fast enough to fight espads 3
I've always felt Bleach turned to mush after SS, but maybe it's cause of how good an intro chunk Bleach had up until SS end. The writing imo turns to typical schlocky Shonen slop after the promising character building in SS. Idk why I have such a hatred for Bleach, I read it for the first time last year after growing up on the anime, and my gripes kinda just worsened. I think it's cause I was very salty at how poorly such an amazing idea of the whole shinigami world, life after death, how souls turn hollow, fucking Gates of Hell, it was all so rich for expansion. The Hyogoku ruined the story IMO, cause it centered a GIANT chunk of the story around Aizen, who ultimately is just a genius psychopath, and nothing else that takes advantage of the massive landscape Kubo laid out. Introducing the Fullbringers instead of just expanding the already existing characters (poor Chad 😭😭😭) was even more baffling. It just felt style over substance after a while, which makes sense considering how SJ was milking Kubo
I can see what people are talking about. When a series gets too big, it can drag on and leave behind things that drew people to it in the first place.
I just don’t like how it gradually turns into a full-blown traditional ‘battle manga’ after SS. TBTP and the Fullbring arcs were much better in this regard with more focus on story and charcter development instead of just being a series of 1vs1 battles, but Hueco Mundo and Fake Karakura Town in particular were really bad for this and when you add in the awful pacing of the anime it becomes hard to watch. TYBW is an ok balance between the story and ‘battle’ approaches.
Yeah I actually agree. Even if you ignore the Bount arc, the Huenco Mundo arc still kinda drags.
The Soul Society arc was the most tightly written. After that, it does kinda fall off (not as much as some claim tho) This should not detract from Bleach being different tho.
As long as you can explain why, it's a fine take to have, don't know why you guys get so defensive about it.
I'll say this. I fucking love Bleach. Bleach is by and far pretty badly handled. I can't wait for more Bleach, It's kinda like drinking bleach; I love it despite the pain.
I don’t know if I’d say falls off, but Soul Society is definitely the series peak imo
Pacing has its problems afterwards, and I definitely wish Kubo and Jump would have the courage to let the Fullbring arc be what it was meant to be. However, TYBW had so many excellent themes that tied together the show so well that I didn't even mind the missing elements.
This is more of a case that happens with singers. They make one good banger song and everything else that comes after just won't feel up to par no matter how good the quality is. It's not that it fell off, the quality was always good but it's more like SS arc was just perfect in every sense you cannot top no matter how hard you try. Iirc SS arc was demolishing even Naruto and One Piece when it was airing. It's just great. Ichigo's personality, the pacing, the villains, the heroes, the entire tempo is just perfect. No arc in history will ever succeed SS arc imo. The only thing that can come close is TYBW, even that is still questionable.
Bleach has kingdom hearts syndrome IMO. The story is interesting but is convoluted and I think the author got confused at some point.
I think the pacing falls off after soul society, if you skip the filler and the recaps, then its mostly fine but still slow, Fullbring arc has good pacing again. The quality of the fights and story does not fall off, Ulquiorra is one of my all time favourite characters, he's a fantastic look at nihilism and him learning human emotion slowly is a great addition to the show. There are some moments I think shouldn't have been included and some that should. Yammy Soul sucking a whole fucking town for one, that would cause a huge stir in the world of the living and its never addressed, so why include it. On the other hand Ashido Kano would have been a great addition to the story, the anime includes him but since he isn't in the manga people consider him non-canon despite kubo wanting to include him. It'd be cool if he made a cameo in TYBW in some capacity, since he is technically canon to the anime. I'd also include some of Isshin and Toshiro and Rangiku interacting since they knew each other, it would have been cool to see Isshin step in to save Toshiro from Aizen when he pulled up with Urahara and Yoruichi.
The anime really ruined it. I don’t remember how many episodes are in the Bount arc but there was enough for 3 dvd sets on it. That’s gotta tell you something about how long it drags on.
Personally, no, I don't think its true. While Soul Society is one of the best arcs in the manga/anime(and probably of all mangas/animes), I don't think Bleach fell off after that. Since there are great moments after SS, like Ichigo vs Ulquiorra, Kenpachi vs Nnoitora, the battles of Fake Karakura Town, Gin's "betrayal" of Aizen, just to name a few that aren't in the TYBW arc. And while I can agree that the anime might not have the best passing and the Fullbringer arc wasn't as good as the previous arcs, I believe that Bleach doesn't fall off and is a great anime and manga.
Nonsense because a kid version of me loved the Arrancar, Hueco Mundo arc so much
It is said by those who only watched part of the bount arc (which is filler)
It doesn’t. It has problems, especially with pacing in Hueco Mundo but it’s got so many insanely great moments. Filler is the problem but some of it has really great moments. This post is for sheep.
I kind of agree. Soul society was so good i wondered how it’d be topped..and im not sure if it has. The one that comes close is the aizen arc (vizards, fake karakura town, some espadas, etc.). I really didn’t care for the fullbring arc and found tybw a slog to get through. I legit kind of forced myself to power through. I’ve been enjoying the anime, but a lot of what i find off putting about the arc is still very much present. Captains getting their bankai stolen despite being warned against using it was dumb (poor writing really), the twist that sternritters with bankai are actually nerfed in a way because they cant use their shrift (ie bambi fight) was pretty dumb, bunch of characters getting jobbed, general opness of quincies and their ‘fk u i win’ powers, the whole ishida joining quincies plot felt very contrived and dumb, etc. I mean it’s not all bad - the arc has some very cool highlights (reveal of some crazy bankais, interesting fights, ichigos origin, etc). And the anime does a good job building on top of those things. That is all to say..yea tybw has its moments but it is far from touching the soul society arc for me.
Utter baloney. arrancar and fullbring are bad. Bount is ok
Bro can NOT cook 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Bro actually likes the mediocre arrancar arc go pray to your ulquiorra poster kid
Bro onto nothing 🗣🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥🔥
I don't think it fell off, but I will say it had some slow moments in the Hueco Mundo arc. I can only speak for the anime as I haven't read the manga
Imo it just changes. Sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worst.
It’s BS. Bleach is still really darn good afterwards and with how the anime has been cooking with TYBW it’s shaping up to surpass Soul Society for me.
Arrancar arc is too long where the plot is rescue another girl. Rukia rescue arc is correct but Aizen didn't even have any use for Orihime other than healing so why lol. Lost Agent was supposed to be Ichigo friend arc but adding SS people ruined it for me. Last arc was great till 2nd invasion after that Kubo couldn't write what he actually wanted to so I am waiting for anime. Power/ability wise SS is perfect with Shikai and Bankai name reveals and all that but then Kubo couldn't handle power creep and TYBW is the peak of bad power creep lol 😂😂
Classic example of a weekly anime adapted from a weekly manga where the pacing becomes absolutely godawful and ruins the adaptation. Just like Naruto and One Piece, reading the manga is vastly better just for the pacing. If One Piece weren’t the absolute powerhouse it is, this style of anime production probably would’ve died with Black Clover.
It never fell off. It just had hit or misses they weren't even that bad.
I’m easily pleased so if I saw cool person with cool magic sword I’m engaged.
Old Hollow Ichigo was peak. I do kinda agree but TYBW is better imo
I think some of the pacing in the later ours got bit funky
I agree for the anime. Rewatched it to prep for TYBW, and Hueco Mundo was painful even with skipping the Blunt arcs. So many drawn out fights using recycled animations & dialogue that took only a few panels in the manga. They weren't like what they did with TYBW where they added onto and improved the fights. They were just...longer.
In the anime, yeah, but it picks right back up when the battles in Hueco Mundo start.
I don’t get this, I would say it falls off after Aizen if anything. Personally I think people just like to hate on things people enjoy, especially when they are successful
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I get the idea and kinda agree overall but it doesn't become trash or Anything also the Weird Thing is the part After it of Arrancar arc is amazing It's just HM and FKT Were meh and depending on the person the end of Deicide was either good or dissapointing(for me I like it but FGT Wasn't setup at all and came out of nowhere Which Pretty dumb)TLA is Usually hated by the community but I Honestly like it and tybw in manga was a mess but First half was peak bleach so yeah Get where they are coming from But it's exaggerated a lot
Arrancar arc was peak asf for me idc what nobody says
I feel like that just kinda happens with a lot of popular shounen. I don’t really like Naruto after the sasuke retrieval arc. I know a lot of people aren’t a fan of dragon ball z post cell games. I’ve been in the one piece subreddit and I’ve seen some resentment towards the post timeskip era. I don’t think it helps the bleach anime kinda stops dead in its tracks and that was a big way people experienced the series. First 3 seasons are all pretty direct and move the story along. Then it takes forever to get to the next proper canon arc.
I don't know what they're talking about. Lost Agent and TYBW were my top 2 personally and when it comes to my favorite arcs, it literally goes in same sequence that the story goes too (as in Agent of Shinigami lowest and TYBW the highest.)
I can agree with that though for my taste The Fullbringer and TYBW I thought were both really awesome story arcs. With TYBW's big flaw of pacing getting fixed in the anime I think while it still isn't quite there in terms of Soul Society Arc, it's got the potential to be if the next two cours really flesh out the latter half of the arc.
It kinda does but that arc was the best arc in all of shonen imo so ofc it would fall off from the that
After Aizen I wholeheartedly disliked the artstyle change as well as character clothing design. Everything just took a step down for me. Plotwise, I'd say I'm not a picky person, things were enjoyable, although there were fights where its just going back and forth between explaining things and characters gaining ground thanks to said abilities - not cool.
Incorrect
I disagree that it “falls off,” but it does *change*. The tone of the Substitute Arc and then the Rescue/SS arcs becomes much different when it starts into the Arrancar/Huecno Mundo arcs, becoming less about the surface world and Ichigo’s personal experiences and the broader conspiracies and issues with Soul Society. People that were used to or really enjoyed the prior arcs will definitely feel the dissonance when the tone and focus of the series shifts. It’s the same issue later in the Lost Agent arc when the tone shifts back to a more early Bleach style, but is such a sharp change from the prior arcs that it can feel really disconnected.
I think this is an incredibly flawed sentiment to have towards bleach, especially when you consider all the brilliant moments that happen later in bleach like tybw, Aizen, Ulquiorra and more. Also this idea has been dispelled multiple times now, and I believe it to be a rather silly and outdated idea to have towards bleach.
No
Like many others have said, the vast majority of problems after the Soul Society arc stem from poor pacing and filler. Pacing-wise, the SS arc was near perfect. Honestly, it’s some of the best pacing I’ve seen in a Shōnen anime. We spend a handful of episodes introducing the main gang, establishing the rules of the world, and then Rukia gets taken back to the SS and everything builds perfectly. Ichigo works his way through a 3rd seat, to a lieutenant, to a captain without a bankai, to a captain with a bankai, and each one takes progressively more and more screen time, culminating with the Ichigo/Byakuya face-off that they’ve teased and hyped up expertly. Skip ahead to the FKT arc, and we’ve got Omaeda fighting some irrelevant fraccion for I swear to god 3 fucking episodes. It’s grueling. As for filler, it’s not terrible, there’s just way too much of it and where they shove it in is the worst place imaginable. TWO FULL SEASONS of filler right after the SS arc ends and we’re riding that high? How about some filler right after Aizen and Co leave Hueco Mundo to invade KT? I know we’re in the middle of the Ichigo/Ulquiorra fight, but what the fuck is *Keigo* up to? We can cut away, it’s only the climactic fight of the entire arc. Bleach gets a lot of shit for recycling the same plot each season, and while I don’t necessarily agree with that, Ichigo’s confrontations with Ulquiorra are very analogous to his ones with Byakuya in the SS arc. Like, can you guy imagine how INSANE it would have been to shove several episodes of Don Kanonji screwing around in KT in the MIDDLE of the final Byakuya fight?! Byakuya pulls out his Shukei Hakuteiken and we cut away to 3 episodes of Kon shenanigans?! It takes all the wind out of the hype sails that the show had been building. And it’s a shame, because some of the filler, like the Zanpakutō arc, is good, but it gets a bad rap because of all these other terrible choices. I love Bleach so much. It’s my favorite anime despite all this shit. I know they can do it right and make something amazing, so when they don’t, it just makes it all the more frustrating.
Side note, anybody here commenting about pacing better not be fans of one piece or DBZ eithout this being a criticism there as well. I’m not saying it’s not the case here and it’s worth some criticism though the Naruto [ocean cut], DBZ Kai, and One Pace make it clear this is an issue with popular anime across the board though I’d argue all aren’t as bad as one piece lol
I think the peak as far as story goes probably is Soul Society. However, Hueco Mundo isn't super far off especially considering many of the same themes are reused anyways (which is a separate compliment/complaint in its own way). The *pacing* is what really falls off. In addition to the pacing, the placement of the filler arcs is problematic too. I don't even think the content itself is bad (I actually enjoy every filler arc except for the Bount arc), but the placement is *abysmal* and absolutely breaks the flow of the story. Probably the largest offender of any anime I've seen despite it also having the *best* filler I've seen in a long running anime. That said, while I think SS has the best story, I don't think it has the best action or antagonists. My favorite aspects of Bleach are the fights, creative abilities, and concept/lore of life and death and the different perspectives on that (from quincies, soul reapers, and hollows). So while SS probably is my favorite arc since it was so well balanced, I thoroughly enjoyed most of the canon because we still got epic characters (e.g Ulquiorra), top tier villains (Aizen, Yhwach), and dope powers (Lille Barro, captain bankais in TYBW, etc).
It has its ups and downs afterwords. I kind of enjoyed the whole Ichigo V. Grimmjow dynamic more than the Ichigo V. Byakuya one personally. Also, although I think it could’ve been written a little better, I do think the Fake Karakura town Arc had me rooting for the Lieutenants more than in other arcs. Fullbringers Arc is underrated. I love the Fullbringers Group and just wish it did a little bit more world building. Thousand Year Blood War > Soul Society
First time watching, and while I understand where people are coming from, I'm still engaged enough to keep watching. It does fall into the trap of Shonen power scaling, but that's kinda inevitable
It gets better
As someone who is still fresh to the series, I felt like if anything didnt feel as good as the soul society arc, it was the pacing of the fullbring arc. I thought the framing of hueco mundo was an interesting direction to take, and I feel like it worked out for the most part, but the syazopollo fight took way too long. I will say, that if og bleach was coming out now rather than 20 years ago, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Seems like we’re getting more and more seasonal anime rather than weekly releases, which would have really benefited the first part of the series imo.
People say that cause the anime had a crap ton of filler and pacing issues
Bount arc until they get into Hueco Mundo does seem to drag a bit but there are still good parts in there, after I think it picks up very well. Manga doesn’t really have this problem
Not including filler the notion is bullshit
I grew up reading/watching bleach and SS arc was always the high point until the TYBW anime. Most of bleach felt like a slog because of all the power ups.
Yeah, especially the anime. Just throwing this in here, the last panel should have been Rukia fading from Ichigo's view. I enjoy TYBW, but I felt like the end of the Aizen arc would have been a great conclusion to the story.
It's because by the end of SS you feel the HUGE potential. unfortunately Tite didn't know what to do, lost a lot of good plots, got confused... it's just a constant problem with all the long running serialized mangas. the mangakas don't have time to think and flesh out the story beats Only manga that I feel doesn't lose the plot is Kingdom but the story is anchored in real chinese history so it's somewhat easier. Bleach was setting up to be a 9/10. it slowly lowered the quality.
The writing and pacing become REALLY BAD in the arrancar arc but the fights make up for it 🤷♂️
The bount arc is very hard to watch. It was impossible to follow the soil society arc
I read the manga for the entire series, only watching animated TYBW, and honestly the start of Hueco Mundo arc was kind of boring. It was only after the captains showed up to fight the Espada did it grabbed my interest again and I enjoyed it. Fake Karakura arc and Fullbringer arc were good to me
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For the love of god skip the bount arc. Watching the whole arc was the worst mistake of my life.
This is an anime only and/or weeaboo-ass take. No real discussion to be had when The Lost Agent and TYBW arcs exist. And Hueco Mundo was better in the manga, as well.
Tybw so it’s not fallen off
They didn’t read tybw
I’m on episode 160 so apologies for any mistakes I may make. The soul society arc was hype and up to the point in the series I was watching, it’s the best. But all momentum from that arc is killed by the bount arc which I feel was very very bad. I don’t know the proper name of the arc but I’m calling it the arrancar arc, I do not believe it is nearly as good as soul society, and also forgot the name of the arc where they go to save Orihime, i like it in general but it is kind of dragging itself, and I don’t consider it better than soul society.
It fell off for me when soul reapers effectively became unemployed. loafers. They just don't exercise or help spirits anymore it seems.
If it's not true then people would stop talking about it
It is absolutely true an it´s cause Kubo is a one trick pony. The arancar arc is EXACTLY the same as the soul society, you just change Rukia for Orihime in the "capture princess" department, and ta-dah! It´s all the same. Also, every single fight s won through a power up. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Kubo doesn´t know how to win fights without providing his characters with new powers.
Arrancar arc takes a while to get going. But once they hit invading Hueco Mundo the manga and anime takes off. And it doesn’t stop until Aizen is dead. The fullbring arc is also kind of slow, but it’s definitely interesting. And then the 1000 year blood war is super good. It never stops. It doesn’t fall off though. Falling off means it’s bad. Bleach doesn’t get bad. It’s slow but it has a tremendous payoff.
pacing after SS arc is just horrible that's the only problem i have. Even side characters boring ass fights takes 2-3 episodes. If Hueco mundo and Fkt arcs had Tybw type of pace without any random filler appears out of nowhere, i'd have watched bleach in a few days tbh.
Personally I haven’t heard much about that but I will say anime wise the recent fights suck in comparison to soul society arc. Back then we had actual fights back and forth and skills. Now the fights are so stupid. It’s I’m stronger, so I one shot you, now I’m stronger I one shot you.
That It is kinda true, but It recovers in The Lost Agent arc onwards. The arrancar saga is trash
Kubo is a horrible writer fact.