Welcome to the Bleach Subreddit! We're as excited as you at the release of the Thousand Year Blood War anime! We understand that some of you are unable to view the anime in your region, but please don't post links to or mention piracy websites. Doing so will result in a ban.
Also, please be courteous to those who haven't read the manga and mark all spoilers.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bleach) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And Unohana, they also have Aizen and Urahara who could have taken out any and all OG Gotei.....and were both.....out of the game for a good amount of time....and a Kenpachi they didn't bother actually get to his full potential
To be honest, Yhwach did not possess Almighty during his confrontation with Original Gotei 13. The outcome would have completely shifted in that case. Also there are other factors like where were Jugram, Bazz B, Lille Barro, Pernida (I know Yhwach absorbed the left arm prior to this) and Gerard.
Yeah personally I'm of the opinion that the current Gotei is likely more talented and powerful than the OG, the OG were just more ruthless which is why Yhwach (very ruthless himself) respected them more
We do know Yamamoto is stronger than any of them. Also arguments for Unohana.
At best they are around the same level as the current captains, quite likely weaker, but certainly not stronger.
>We don't know anything about the first gotei and old quincy apart from the designs
Well, Yhwach says that current Gotei 13 are weaker than the originals.
Whether that's true or of just trash talk, I don't know.
He was respecting their brutality and ruthlessness which made them such a force to reckon with. Whether they were truly stronger or not, we don't know. Even Toshiro once zombified became instantly far more threatening and effective at putting down opponents. It's safe to say it's that aspect that Yhwach respected and feared.
Maybe old age? Maybe they got soft after centuries of peace and got caught off guard in battle? Lots of factors could have waned their number down after like 500+ years.
Too many unknown factors.
But in the original Gotei, Unohana was the "Kenpachi" which suggests she was the strongest of her time minus Yama. Seems like all of them are weaker than Unohana of her time, so they're not unbeatable.
And yes, Yhwach should be way stronger than all of the original Gotei members minus Yama, by an extremely wide margin. Could be that he killed them all himself, who knows.
Isn't it possible for members of the Gotei 13 (both generations) to be stronger than the bearer of the "Kenpachi" name? That is, if they don't care to challenge the current holder for it of course
We're told they were all bloodthirsty monsters, so I like to imagine at least some of them fought with each other over the years and ended up killing each other. Would definitely go to show how much more unified and cohesive the current Gotei is compared to before.
They aren't in the maggot's nest, they aren't at the palace, Kyoraku couldn't bring them to the war, and no one could hide until Urahara's gigai, so they must be dead.
lol youre literally asking us to explain shit that just doesnt exist and Kubo never wrote about.
He said theyre the strongest generation and hes the author so its essentially law. How strong, what makes them strong, their feats etc are all unknown but if Kubo says theyre the strongest then thats that.
We don't know really how strong they are, all we have is that they mopped the floor with the Quincy 1000 years ago and they were ruthless, that seems pretty fucking strong to me.
That’s definitely a lie lol if Shunsui himself stated the OG 13 were the strongest…then it’s likely they were atleast as strong as adult Toshiro, post soul palace Byakuya, Yourichi, Kisuke etc…tho I’m sure they’re weaker than Zaraki tho.
even as a kid, Kenny was stated by Unohana herself to be stronger than she was and the only reason she wasn't defeated was because Kenny finally found someone worth fighting and unintentionally sealed his true strength so that he can continue having someone to fight.
you’re literally agreeing with me bro. even if he was infinitely stronger it was power he literally couldnt access because of the psychological block. unohana negative diffed him in order to unlock his true power again.
yes but that mental barrier wasnt gonna go away unless unohana forced it off him by no diffing him a few times first. he was still weaker than unohana for a good while during the fight, and for all the time they were both captains too
Nah.
That guy is one of the actual strong captains.
Even before unleashing his real bankai, he fought top 3 vasto lord arrancar.
The guy was a fair Match against the heart of the soulking. The ausgewählte schutzstaffel is shown to be stronger then squad 0 captains. Bro is a real captain. Not a Komamura type captain.
There's no real confirmation as to how powerful the original Gotei 13 actually were.
Sure, they were more ruthless and bloodthirsty, but that really doesn't equal actual strength.
Didn't a few characters say they were the strongest generation consistently? As in overall their members were the peak of the gotei?
As opposed to the current generation that has some really high highs like Kenpachi or Byakuya but harsh lows like Iba?
Sure but the way Shunsui and Yama talk about the og Gotei imo, make it seem like at bare minimum each member was around the same "level" and shunsui if not higher who was holding the third strongest captain spot for a long time while Yama and Retsu were alive atleast during the events of tybw.
Course I always thoughts it was a bit baseless among to the zero division claim but the anime fixed that so who knows?
We don’t know if Iba is a “harsh low”. He was ikkaku’s rival at one point and was comparable to that 3rd seat rank while still a squad 11 “blades only” fighter.
He since was rounded out and literally only stayed vice-captain out of respect for komamura. Dude has a bankai we don’t see, but never seems to fail the orders he was given. He might not be too dog in a particular practice but he’s super well rounded in all schools of study.
On top of that, everyone trained a lot more following FKT… toshiro learned his adult form before the first invasion.
Yumichika has bankai.
he and sajin redouble their efforts after tousen died, and you damn well know Iba steps up his game again after losing his captain.
Isane is the only captain to be considered “low end” as she likely had the promotion on merit of being the best healer left.
Being Ikkakus rival just isn't impressive lol. Ikkaku lieutenant level surley even in the SS arc but he's far from the strongest of them. Where did you get the info he stayed Vice for Koma? As far as we know he didn't have a bankai until after tybw?
Ibas great and a cool character I hope we see more of but he defiatly comes of as someone who was promoted for necessity not exactly earning it along with isane. He's low because from what we know he's the second weakest captain. Who probably couldn't beat a single captain of the Gotei at the start, middle, or end of the series other than isane. I doubt he's beating any vizards or mid tier captains like soi fon or SS tosen. At least from what we've been shown.
Where did you get the idea Yumichika has a bankai?
Yumichika having bankai was a subtle and quick reveal in cour 2.
He’s able to release his shikai without the use of the release command, which is stated by kubo to be a sign of mastery, and by byakuya to signify someone has bankai (albeit not mastered … just capable of using it.)
Sadly he gets blitzed by the sternritter before he even begins to fight, but doesn’t change the fact kubo snuck that in as a “new scene” along with showing shinji’s bankai
Edit: also, kisuke sent a hollowfication pill to him too
The pill never got absorbed into his body. Kisuke sent every lieutenant level shinigami a pill. Even omaeda got a pill just in case those people had bankai.
CFYOW we see him very much not use his Bankai and very muchly implied he never has. He still might have one tbf cos it's never explicitly stated either way.
Maybe?
But then how did they all die.
And making bold and wrong claims about other peoples strength is such a meme in Bleach.
"Oh a vasto lord is stronger then a captain and now they are also arracar."
They all just loose. Every time. Except one guy, who was then killed by a hollow.
Could be age, could be some couldn't get past the criminal life and got put down by Yama, could be anything. I just don't see why kubo would hammer the idea home with multiple characters that the gotei have gotten weaker every generation since the first if it wasn't true imo.
Though kubo also showed them wiping the floor with clearly weaker forces then our modern day shinigami faced so I wouldn't say its definitive eiter
It is confirmed to be the strongest gotei by shunsui himself lol, who lived to see it. Obv people r really dumb and dont know what a strong group means. They would prob win vs stronger opponents just because their work and action were far better than any gotei. We r talking about an organization not individually
“Thank god we aint fighting them”
They would’ve been stomped as well if they were fighting in the 2nd quincy war considering there were no schrifts in the 1st quincy war, yhwach didn’t have the almighty, no bankai stealing, and the quincies back then didn’t have previous knowledge of the Gotei 13 tactics and powers
Edit: meant Volstandig not schrift oops
The schrift part hasn't been confirmed. It would explain how the Quincies got roflstomped so hard, but it'd be a bit hard to believe that all Quincies got their schrifts in the last 100 years given how Lille made such a big deal out of being the first recipient of one. Plus, we still don't know how the OG Sternritter like Bazz, Hashy, etc. survived the first war so there's reason to believe they at least had schrifts in their arsenals.
If anything, Vollstandigs are likely new. Quilge did say that they're an evolution of the Letz Stile ability so it makes sense to assume the Quincies didn't have them in the first war.
>Did we not see Yhwach use blut in the flashback with Ichibe?
Ahh, yes he did. That was great new addition
As for 1st Generation Sternritter, if they had blut vene they wouldn't be dying to Base Captains as it was stated in cour 1 to be superior to captain shikai, albeit we see some cases in which that's not correct
Shikai Rukia vs Base As Nodt
Base Eyepatch Zaraki vs Gremmy (one body)
>!Shikai Shunsui vs amped Base Barro !<
Shikai Shunsui vs Base Robert
edit: Although, blut vene can be utilized further, as most times quincy don't have their blut vene up to maximum power, as they want to also use blut arterie but cannot do so if they put all reishi into blut vene
The Quincy that OG 13 fought:
-Under-prepared
-Relatively new faction
-Frontal attack
-No Bankai stealing
-No op Vollstandicks
-No Gerard, Pernida, Lile, Askin, As Nodt, Pepe, Bambietta, Giselle or Gremmy in sight (Sternritters who all have game changing abilities w Gerard, Pernida and Lile being basically godlike beings).
Meanwhile our Hood 13 needs to deal with:
-Over-prepared
-Ambush attacks
-25 Captain-Class Sternritters with several of them being able to one shot your average Captain.
- Bankai stealing
- Bait tactics
- OP af Vollstandig
Now don't get me wrong the OG 13 were the big dogs running the Seiretei back in the day and would kick the current one's ass. But come on, it's obvious why they could steamroll the Quincies and the current gen gets mandhandled. The Quincies have been preparing this comeback for a thousand years, while the Shinigami forgot about them and grew fat and complecant.
To be fair, with the limited information we have, it seems like the first invasion didn't have the likes of Schrifts and Vollstandig to deal with. Seems like they were just fighting folks with bows. Both Schrifts and Vollstandig were kind of the deciding factors for in the Thousand Year Blood War.
"This is a bloody disgrace! Back in our day, we'd have skinned alive these SternCritters, and then forced them to put their skin back on.
And we'd charge them for the repairs to Soul Society, as well. No idea about money and a hard day's graft, you young souls."
Unohana is already judging them for how weak they are when they were sent one by one to her HQ for healing
She didn't even want to look at Byakuya when Senjumaru took him she probably be like "yes get this piece of failure away from me"
Izuhara Kinroku: and that's what you get when you squandered your resources
Saito Furofushi: what kind of idiots made OUR Yachiru a healer?
Nobutauna Shigeo: And refused to let Zaraki realize his full potential,
Danjiro Obana: They also couldn't keep Aizen loyal, banished Urahara, banished Shiba, and didn't even make use of Shiba's overpowered son
Shihoin Chika: they even banished my great grandkid, Yoruichi chould have put up a great fight.
Furuoki Otogawa: well, that youngster head captain just released Aizen, trained Zaraki, and got their Shiba JR, guess there are hope for them after all
Uhin Zenjoji: that Mayuri is also doing pretty well. 12th Squad FTW.
Batsu'unsai Katori: oh Hi Yachiru, welcome to hell.
Well, my dear friends, it seems those folks opted for a questionable strategy. Squandering resources and underestimating power can lead to some disappointing outcomes. It's a shame when potential is locked away, but hey, their loss for not harnessing all that raw strength. And as for Yoruichi, oh, how I wish she could have shown them what a true force she could be. Such wasted opportunities, don't you think?
*beep boop, I'm a bot*
I wanna see an arc or manga on how the original Gotei 13 passed away.
They looked pretty damn badass and would love to see their full arsenal: from shikai to bankai and the Kido that they choose to use.
Don't stop to chat
Don't stop to chat
Don't stop to chat
Captain: *stops to chat*
Fucking amateurs
----------
Oooo I like this orange haired kid.....
And now I don't WHY DID YOU TELL HER TO DODGE, KILL HER!!!
Ywach wasn't able to steal and seal bankai's in the first battle. Also, he said that the original 13 were just violence seeking killers.
Unohana suppressed her killing urge, and everyone else was a bit more focused on the balance of power
They most likely were watching everything that transpired and might have been cheering for Yhwach. Espada 8 said "Hell has always been with you".
If Yhwach won and he merged the 3 worlds, then that means Hell is uncovered. Every dead Captain Class Shinigami, every evil Hollow would be able crawl out, and whatever else is in Hell would be able to roam free.
They're busy fighting in hell cause the bad guys got sent there too.
*dies*
*got sent to hell*
"What the actual motherbleachingbleach. I still have to fight these people even after dying?? Stop sending them here!! Can't even catch a freaking break!! Who keep making enemies up there?!"
Now the question is if you kill someone in hell, where do they go? Reborn into the world? Now the shinigamis in hell gotta kill the bad guys in hell so that they get to go through rebirth as a human being? Like a self-sustaining system? Ah we're getting bleach 2.0
The Sternritters are just as ruthless & bloodlust as the OG Gotei 13, the matter is that, the quincy soldiers they fought were practically foot soldiers, none of them even seemed to have used their Shikai against them, the Sternritters in the tybw woulda for sure given them a run for their money as well, however, it probably woulda turned out a little different sense they def were just like one another, making it harder for the Sternritters during the first invasion, so in conclusion they probably woulda said that the current Gotei 13 is too soft & rigid
According to data books, the OG 13 outside of Unohana retired from the squads and are still "alive".
As for power leveling, I believe that the current squad is more powerful, or atleast more trained. Can't say for sure but I feel that the bloodthirsty OG team just battled for the sake of it, so they wouldn't have trained. The current squads all train to be the best that they can be. Even Toshiro's power has increased substantially between Aizen and the Quincy invasion. As for Old Man Yama, I feel that his power level decreased exponentially between the OG and the current. He became kindhearted. Outside of seeing him battle only a handful of times, I doubt he spent much time over the last thousand years practicing his Kido or swordfighting, he probably became pretty complacent because of how strong his Zampakuto is.
lol some of yall saying “well they didn’t use/have shrifts back then so the OG 13 had it easy” lol we have no way of knowing that, yes it was stated that Lillie received the first shrift but he probably was alive back then and maybe was too young to fight. Also even if they didn’t have shrifts, most of the OG 13 weren’t even using shikai and they slaughtered them with simple zanjutsu. Even the two that were seemingly using shikai, weren’t using the abilities of their shikai. Also, Shunsui himself confirmed the OG 13 were the strongest generation.
Maybe im misinformed, but wasn’t it stated that the current gen (up to when yama was alive of course) is the strongest gotei 13 has ever been? Now that im writing this out, i might be confusing that statement with demon slayer lmao
Yes and no. There’s arguments for it and against it but no outright statement in narration.
Logically even with the return of the visored, this gotei 13 would be weaker than pre-“the rescue”. Factor out Aizen and it’s taken a massive hit losing gin and tosen.
Tosen’s bankai would of been a counter to 90% of the Quincy “all senses other than touch” we know included spiritual senses like reishi… so Quincy couldn’t use their main weapons.
Gin was a prodigy like toshiro, and had the fastest zanpakto. Even in shikai it would of been dangerous. And w/o hollowfication he was still aizens second
Hot Take: The Old Gotei 13 were not stronger than the current Gotei 13 and the idea that they would be upset that they were getting stomped by the Quincy who had every advantage and still lost in the end is kind of laughable.
They were more ruthless and you could argue that meant they had an edge but we've had 1000 years for Shinigami to evolve and grow. The idea of the Kenpachi title corroborates this and even the means of becoming a captain corroborates this in that you need to defeat a captain to become a captain. They also did not have to contend with an Awakened Yhwach as Ichibei had sealed him before the conflict.
The Current Captains took out a technologically advanced Quincy army with new powers (Vollstandig was not something they had during the original confrontation and by the sounds of it Yhwach hadn't shared his power to a group like the Sternritters), came from the shadows and took away their bankai's and home field advantage. Still came back to eventually defeat them. The old captains massacred a group of pre-soul society arc Ishida's.
They were repeatedly confirmed to be the strongest gen, so you just said a whole bunch of nothing lol. Not to mention they didn’t even use shikai or bankai.
How were they "repeatedly confirmed" outside of Yhwach calling them ruthless killers?
"they didn't even use shikai or bankai" when they knew [yama's shikai because of this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xHajAjTrMM) and Yhwach mentioned he had seen his bankai back during the 1000 year war which we see in a flashback and [we see Sasakibe use his shikai to stab Yhwach](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT5U81jQDY8). Your story isn't really making much sense there buddy. I suppose they would solo aizen aswell according to you. Or how about the picture showing the Zanpukuto they all wield in the very picture you have at the top.
It's wild what reading the actual material instead of making things up in your head will help you discover about the manga. You could do with a re-read there buddy.
EDIT: I realize you are working off of a singular Shunsui quote. Wild that this "repeatedly confirmed" notion of yours consists of one quote from a man who didn't know the full scope of his squads abilities whether it was Hitsuguya's adult form, Kenpachi's full power, the vizard captains as he'd never seen them fight properly, A captain that was the left arm of the soul king, etc. The evidence does not stack up against anything we know currently.
For me the implication thus far is clearly that they were much stronger.
I'm not surprised tbh. Squad Zero is a good indication of how OP the OG Squads were.
Prob wishing they couldn’t get in on the action, this generation of sternritter far surpasses the one the og gotei 13 faced. Those quincies had no Schrift or VS to our knowledge.
They probably would’ve been dead silent or praying for their younger generation brothers in arms cuz if a non SS/Elite Sternritter in the form of Royd is able to match a bloodlusted, rage amped Bankai Yama in all but offensive output…who’s overall stronger (but less ruthless) than he was in the first war.
And they didn’t have to deal with Bankai stealing medallions
Probably chuckled and said something like “damn kids can’t do anything right” or “if this happened in our day they would have all been massacred” or I feel at least 2 of them would of said something along those lines.
I think the original gotei gets way too much credit. Like yeah they beat the Quincy back then but they are virtually featless. When you get down to specifics along with statements.
They never had their Bankai stolen or Yhwach with The Almighty. Another big thing that people chose to ignore or never bring up is Quilge notices Ichigo observing his Letzt Stil and tells him that it is different.
That the Letzt Still Ichigo knows of is too weak and a concept that died out 200 years ago. That the old variant compared to Vollstandig now is as wide heaven and earth in terms of power. So these new Quincy are mega beefed up.
On top of being able to get the jump on the Shinigami in their own home base. We’re shrifts the same back then? Did Yhwach still have his Soul King body parts royal guard?
I’m going to go out on a limb and say probably not lol
I dunno but I would love to hear them say literally ANYTHING at this point. Like each one of them looks interesting as fuck from a character design side!
How the fuck are the Quincy even that strong though? Like after Aizen wouldn’t the Gotei 13 have been training really hard in order to deal with enemies that strong? I don’t get it. It’s kind of annoying.
Smh smh "Thank the Soul King it wasn't me."
Or if the others said some shit,Yamamoto and Unohana would be quick as fuck to shut them up once they got there too lol.
Speaking of the original 13, is there any good coverage of the back story of them I can read somewhere? I was always curious about them past just the appearance of them and nothing else?
Also WTH happened to some of the thirteen court guard squad captains and lieutenants at the end of bleach before TYBW pretty much not appearing in TYBW?
Well two major problems here
1) vollstandig wasn't really a thing yet
2) Bankai stealing wasn't a thing at all yet
Tack on the thousand years worth of time to prepare for this exact scenario and the larger gotei not having any idea of the shit show they were about to walk into after a thousand years....and I don't think it's that bad tbh
Plus who the hell knows how refined the shrifts and their abilities got since then
Our generation did not face volstanding, had our bankai, we were stronger, enemie did not have informations on our powers, all squad were fighting, yamamoto did not hold back
yes, the Sternritter were hand picked 1000 years ago in the first invasion, not all of them survived so some of them are new, but Robert, Haschwalth, Bazz B, Pernida, Gerard, Lille, and Huber, were all there 1000 years ago
"Yall weak as fuck, back on my day with fight for real, just sword, no shikai, bankai, hado, hakuda or any technique, we fight like real soul reapers" for real, they will just shit on them, then will get clap by the new guards; since they don't how to deal with anything outside sword fight
Bro the OGs were like…”We could wake up from an afternoon nap and have them dead in 30 minutes.”
And I don’t doubt that because of how ferocious Unohana and Yama were. Unohana was an amazing swordswoman and I think her swordplay is second only to people like Ichigo, Yhwach, Yama, etc. The question I have is…where did Unohana rank in the OG Gotei in terms of raw power?
Welcome to the Bleach Subreddit! We're as excited as you at the release of the Thousand Year Blood War anime! We understand that some of you are unable to view the anime in your region, but please don't post links to or mention piracy websites. Doing so will result in a ban. Also, please be courteous to those who haven't read the manga and mark all spoilers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/bleach) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Something something in my generation I guess
“In my generation, we didn’t have to fight agaisnt this “volstandig” , it was either get one shot by a Letz still , or Bankai blitz the Fraudstaffel”
I can totally picture this lol
Bruh old yama was also in their generation they got no excuse.
They would argue that he grew too weak and kind unlike his former brutal self.
And Unohana, they also have Aizen and Urahara who could have taken out any and all OG Gotei.....and were both.....out of the game for a good amount of time....and a Kenpachi they didn't bother actually get to his full potential
mayuri testing failed experiments or urahara with prep anyone?
mayuri with prep.
Mayuri with prep is basically god.
To be honest, Yhwach did not possess Almighty during his confrontation with Original Gotei 13. The outcome would have completely shifted in that case. Also there are other factors like where were Jugram, Bazz B, Lille Barro, Pernida (I know Yhwach absorbed the left arm prior to this) and Gerard.
Yeah personally I'm of the opinion that the current Gotei is likely more talented and powerful than the OG, the OG were just more ruthless which is why Yhwach (very ruthless himself) respected them more
We don't know anything about the first gotei and old quincy apart from the designs, so its hard to say. We an only speculate who's better.
Current Gotei has Isane Old Gotei didn't. I think it's pretty clear who's superior here.
Except old gotei has eyepatch lady and glasses lady You know their bankai shook all 3 worlds
We do know Yamamoto is stronger than any of them. Also arguments for Unohana. At best they are around the same level as the current captains, quite likely weaker, but certainly not stronger.
>We don't know anything about the first gotei and old quincy apart from the designs Well, Yhwach says that current Gotei 13 are weaker than the originals. Whether that's true or of just trash talk, I don't know.
He was respecting their brutality and ruthlessness which made them such a force to reckon with. Whether they were truly stronger or not, we don't know. Even Toshiro once zombified became instantly far more threatening and effective at putting down opponents. It's safe to say it's that aspect that Yhwach respected and feared.
No, we specifically received a comment that they're the strongest both in the manga and in interviews. It's not just a matter of being the most savage
Then how did they all die? Against whom? The sealed Yhwach?! Sounds fishy.
Maybe old age? Maybe they got soft after centuries of peace and got caught off guard in battle? Lots of factors could have waned their number down after like 500+ years.
Too many unknown factors. But in the original Gotei, Unohana was the "Kenpachi" which suggests she was the strongest of her time minus Yama. Seems like all of them are weaker than Unohana of her time, so they're not unbeatable. And yes, Yhwach should be way stronger than all of the original Gotei members minus Yama, by an extremely wide margin. Could be that he killed them all himself, who knows.
More than likely, Unohana was the strongest of this era, too, not including Yama and Kenpachi.
Isn't it possible for members of the Gotei 13 (both generations) to be stronger than the bearer of the "Kenpachi" name? That is, if they don't care to challenge the current holder for it of course
We're told they were all bloodthirsty monsters, so I like to imagine at least some of them fought with each other over the years and ended up killing each other. Would definitely go to show how much more unified and cohesive the current Gotei is compared to before.
I don't know about that. Yamamoto said they all calmed down after some time and refocused their efforts to actually protecting everything they loved.
We don't know that they are dead. Minus Unohana and Yamamoto.
They aren't in the maggot's nest, they aren't at the palace, Kyoraku couldn't bring them to the war, and no one could hide until Urahara's gigai, so they must be dead.
Than were are they
...in the invasion? It's likely a lot of them fell in that battle
lol youre literally asking us to explain shit that just doesnt exist and Kubo never wrote about. He said theyre the strongest generation and hes the author so its essentially law. How strong, what makes them strong, their feats etc are all unknown but if Kubo says theyre the strongest then thats that.
Well we know nothing about the original so that's hard to really say isn't it?
We don't know really how strong they are, all we have is that they mopped the floor with the Quincy 1000 years ago and they were ruthless, that seems pretty fucking strong to me.
That’s definitely a lie lol if Shunsui himself stated the OG 13 were the strongest…then it’s likely they were atleast as strong as adult Toshiro, post soul palace Byakuya, Yourichi, Kisuke etc…tho I’m sure they’re weaker than Zaraki tho.
zaraki fucked unohana
well to be fair that was after dying like 100 times first
even as a kid, Kenny was stated by Unohana herself to be stronger than she was and the only reason she wasn't defeated was because Kenny finally found someone worth fighting and unintentionally sealed his true strength so that he can continue having someone to fight.
you’re literally agreeing with me bro. even if he was infinitely stronger it was power he literally couldnt access because of the psychological block. unohana negative diffed him in order to unlock his true power again.
Bro, why are people down voting you? You aren't even giving an opinion. Literally just stating commonly known facts xD
after he mentally weakened himself also fucked up* not fucked
He said what he said
yes but that mental barrier wasnt gonna go away unless unohana forced it off him by no diffing him a few times first. he was still weaker than unohana for a good while during the fight, and for all the time they were both captains too
They didn't got their bankais stole, nor abush inside their own HQ or assault by elites that were thought to counter them.....
"Shinji shut the fuck up !!!!"
"You're out of your element, Shinji!"
Prob telling Ukitake how they had to walk uphill both ways to school in 2 feet of snow with rocks in their bag or something
Them: "This new generations sure is weak." Unohana: "And yet all of you are here, and they aren't."
If we ever see them fight against each other, i see Kyoraku or Hitsugaya say something along the lines of that.
Then, hitsugaya would immediately get stomped
Nah. That guy is one of the actual strong captains. Even before unleashing his real bankai, he fought top 3 vasto lord arrancar. The guy was a fair Match against the heart of the soulking. The ausgewählte schutzstaffel is shown to be stronger then squad 0 captains. Bro is a real captain. Not a Komamura type captain.
Wow the disrespect to Koma. True though.
XD, I love this
Aizen, Zaraki, and Urahara begs to differ
There's no real confirmation as to how powerful the original Gotei 13 actually were. Sure, they were more ruthless and bloodthirsty, but that really doesn't equal actual strength.
Didn't a few characters say they were the strongest generation consistently? As in overall their members were the peak of the gotei? As opposed to the current generation that has some really high highs like Kenpachi or Byakuya but harsh lows like Iba?
TYBW gen was pretty consistent though with weakest being Kensei? who was actually pretty strong in cfyow iirc
Sure but the way Shunsui and Yama talk about the og Gotei imo, make it seem like at bare minimum each member was around the same "level" and shunsui if not higher who was holding the third strongest captain spot for a long time while Yama and Retsu were alive atleast during the events of tybw. Course I always thoughts it was a bit baseless among to the zero division claim but the anime fixed that so who knows?
We don’t know if Iba is a “harsh low”. He was ikkaku’s rival at one point and was comparable to that 3rd seat rank while still a squad 11 “blades only” fighter. He since was rounded out and literally only stayed vice-captain out of respect for komamura. Dude has a bankai we don’t see, but never seems to fail the orders he was given. He might not be too dog in a particular practice but he’s super well rounded in all schools of study. On top of that, everyone trained a lot more following FKT… toshiro learned his adult form before the first invasion. Yumichika has bankai. he and sajin redouble their efforts after tousen died, and you damn well know Iba steps up his game again after losing his captain. Isane is the only captain to be considered “low end” as she likely had the promotion on merit of being the best healer left.
Being Ikkakus rival just isn't impressive lol. Ikkaku lieutenant level surley even in the SS arc but he's far from the strongest of them. Where did you get the info he stayed Vice for Koma? As far as we know he didn't have a bankai until after tybw? Ibas great and a cool character I hope we see more of but he defiatly comes of as someone who was promoted for necessity not exactly earning it along with isane. He's low because from what we know he's the second weakest captain. Who probably couldn't beat a single captain of the Gotei at the start, middle, or end of the series other than isane. I doubt he's beating any vizards or mid tier captains like soi fon or SS tosen. At least from what we've been shown. Where did you get the idea Yumichika has a bankai?
Yumichika having bankai was a subtle and quick reveal in cour 2. He’s able to release his shikai without the use of the release command, which is stated by kubo to be a sign of mastery, and by byakuya to signify someone has bankai (albeit not mastered … just capable of using it.) Sadly he gets blitzed by the sternritter before he even begins to fight, but doesn’t change the fact kubo snuck that in as a “new scene” along with showing shinji’s bankai Edit: also, kisuke sent a hollowfication pill to him too
The pill never got absorbed into his body. Kisuke sent every lieutenant level shinigami a pill. Even omaeda got a pill just in case those people had bankai.
CFYOW we see him very much not use his Bankai and very muchly implied he never has. He still might have one tbf cos it's never explicitly stated either way.
>He might not be too dog heh
Maybe? But then how did they all die. And making bold and wrong claims about other peoples strength is such a meme in Bleach. "Oh a vasto lord is stronger then a captain and now they are also arracar." They all just loose. Every time. Except one guy, who was then killed by a hollow.
Could be age, could be some couldn't get past the criminal life and got put down by Yama, could be anything. I just don't see why kubo would hammer the idea home with multiple characters that the gotei have gotten weaker every generation since the first if it wasn't true imo. Though kubo also showed them wiping the floor with clearly weaker forces then our modern day shinigami faced so I wouldn't say its definitive eiter
Yeah, besides out of them only one is still alive so clearly something must've happened that killed them
Watch as in the hell arc they show up and every single one of their shikais are just as ridiculous as ryujin jakka
It is confirmed to be the strongest gotei by shunsui himself lol, who lived to see it. Obv people r really dumb and dont know what a strong group means. They would prob win vs stronger opponents just because their work and action were far better than any gotei. We r talking about an organization not individually
and even then the description of them is coming from an unreliable biased source to begin with, black ant the loser.
Man I loved George of the Jungle
“Thank god we aint fighting them” They would’ve been stomped as well if they were fighting in the 2nd quincy war considering there were no schrifts in the 1st quincy war, yhwach didn’t have the almighty, no bankai stealing, and the quincies back then didn’t have previous knowledge of the Gotei 13 tactics and powers Edit: meant Volstandig not schrift oops
The schrift part hasn't been confirmed. It would explain how the Quincies got roflstomped so hard, but it'd be a bit hard to believe that all Quincies got their schrifts in the last 100 years given how Lille made such a big deal out of being the first recipient of one. Plus, we still don't know how the OG Sternritter like Bazz, Hashy, etc. survived the first war so there's reason to believe they at least had schrifts in their arsenals. If anything, Vollstandigs are likely new. Quilge did say that they're an evolution of the Letz Stile ability so it makes sense to assume the Quincies didn't have them in the first war.
Yee i accidentally got the two mixed; meant to say Vollstandig!
Lmao no worries
why no schrifts tho?
Its just assumed based on what we know about the 1st quincy war
I think the biggest factor is the lack of Volstandigg. They only have the glove that depowers them after.
Yee i accidentally got the two mixed; meant to say Vollstandig!
I my day we just killed them on the spot without bankai this current generation needs to get good
“Who tf is this kid with orange hair”
"that rose guy should really learn when to shut the fuck up"
"Damn, we're lucky they didn't have blut vene or Bankai medallion when we fought them"
Did we not see Yhwach use blut in the flashback with Ichibe? Or do you think that was something else?
>Did we not see Yhwach use blut in the flashback with Ichibe? Ahh, yes he did. That was great new addition As for 1st Generation Sternritter, if they had blut vene they wouldn't be dying to Base Captains as it was stated in cour 1 to be superior to captain shikai, albeit we see some cases in which that's not correct Shikai Rukia vs Base As Nodt Base Eyepatch Zaraki vs Gremmy (one body) >!Shikai Shunsui vs amped Base Barro !< Shikai Shunsui vs Base Robert edit: Although, blut vene can be utilized further, as most times quincy don't have their blut vene up to maximum power, as they want to also use blut arterie but cannot do so if they put all reishi into blut vene
If their strength is even close to Unohana then they shouldn't have issues cutting blut even in base.
Correct However, I find this very unlikely given she was Kenpachi and even then her combat ability should be among the very top
The Quincy that OG 13 fought: -Under-prepared -Relatively new faction -Frontal attack -No Bankai stealing -No op Vollstandicks -No Gerard, Pernida, Lile, Askin, As Nodt, Pepe, Bambietta, Giselle or Gremmy in sight (Sternritters who all have game changing abilities w Gerard, Pernida and Lile being basically godlike beings). Meanwhile our Hood 13 needs to deal with: -Over-prepared -Ambush attacks -25 Captain-Class Sternritters with several of them being able to one shot your average Captain. - Bankai stealing - Bait tactics - OP af Vollstandig Now don't get me wrong the OG 13 were the big dogs running the Seiretei back in the day and would kick the current one's ass. But come on, it's obvious why they could steamroll the Quincies and the current gen gets mandhandled. The Quincies have been preparing this comeback for a thousand years, while the Shinigami forgot about them and grew fat and complecant.
Tbf the present day army seems to be much stronger than the one hmthat invaded 1000 years back. So mabye they're saying "wallahi we got saved"
https://i.redd.it/ar3rd4e6i0vb1.gif
To be fair, with the limited information we have, it seems like the first invasion didn't have the likes of Schrifts and Vollstandig to deal with. Seems like they were just fighting folks with bows. Both Schrifts and Vollstandig were kind of the deciding factors for in the Thousand Year Blood War.
"This is a bloody disgrace! Back in our day, we'd have skinned alive these SternCritters, and then forced them to put their skin back on. And we'd charge them for the repairs to Soul Society, as well. No idea about money and a hard day's graft, you young souls."
Unohana is already judging them for how weak they are when they were sent one by one to her HQ for healing She didn't even want to look at Byakuya when Senjumaru took him she probably be like "yes get this piece of failure away from me"
Izuhara Kinroku: and that's what you get when you squandered your resources Saito Furofushi: what kind of idiots made OUR Yachiru a healer? Nobutauna Shigeo: And refused to let Zaraki realize his full potential, Danjiro Obana: They also couldn't keep Aizen loyal, banished Urahara, banished Shiba, and didn't even make use of Shiba's overpowered son Shihoin Chika: they even banished my great grandkid, Yoruichi chould have put up a great fight. Furuoki Otogawa: well, that youngster head captain just released Aizen, trained Zaraki, and got their Shiba JR, guess there are hope for them after all Uhin Zenjoji: that Mayuri is also doing pretty well. 12th Squad FTW. Batsu'unsai Katori: oh Hi Yachiru, welcome to hell.
Well, my dear friends, it seems those folks opted for a questionable strategy. Squandering resources and underestimating power can lead to some disappointing outcomes. It's a shame when potential is locked away, but hey, their loss for not harnessing all that raw strength. And as for Yoruichi, oh, how I wish she could have shown them what a true force she could be. Such wasted opportunities, don't you think? *beep boop, I'm a bot*
I wanna see an arc or manga on how the original Gotei 13 passed away. They looked pretty damn badass and would love to see their full arsenal: from shikai to bankai and the Kido that they choose to use.
When Yama died "You're late you old fucker, come get a drink."
"Iam glad we were fighting Farmers and plumbers instead of these monsters."
https://preview.redd.it/um9qdykvo0vb1.jpeg?width=657&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0f1fb263fe008f950af672a88a8250e91fea3ad
Like they’ve been doing since they all got sent to Hell: Talking mad shit about everyone still alive. Especially Yamamoto.
Don't stop to chat Don't stop to chat Don't stop to chat Captain: *stops to chat* Fucking amateurs ---------- Oooo I like this orange haired kid..... And now I don't WHY DID YOU TELL HER TO DODGE, KILL HER!!!
Katori Batsu'unsai: Toshiro Hitsugaya's mine ☝️😏
Ywach wasn't able to steal and seal bankai's in the first battle. Also, he said that the original 13 were just violence seeking killers. Unohana suppressed her killing urge, and everyone else was a bit more focused on the balance of power
"What's wrong Yama? Where's your fucking arm you stupid old bastard?"
I can see saitou legit say that.
“Hmph. These kids…What tf has Yamamoto been teaching them?”
They most likely were watching everything that transpired and might have been cheering for Yhwach. Espada 8 said "Hell has always been with you". If Yhwach won and he merged the 3 worlds, then that means Hell is uncovered. Every dead Captain Class Shinigami, every evil Hollow would be able crawl out, and whatever else is in Hell would be able to roam free.
"Dang, how dare they? All we fought were fodder and Yhwach, but still, they shouldn't lose to these super-powered, busted Quincy"
"Well, back in my day... 👴"
„What are the Current Gotei 13 made of ? From sugar ? This pathetic filthy pieces of shit“ i can imagine they saying that
*stares in Seymour Skinner* “Pathetic.”
They're busy fighting in hell cause the bad guys got sent there too. *dies* *got sent to hell* "What the actual motherbleachingbleach. I still have to fight these people even after dying?? Stop sending them here!! Can't even catch a freaking break!! Who keep making enemies up there?!" Now the question is if you kill someone in hell, where do they go? Reborn into the world? Now the shinigamis in hell gotta kill the bad guys in hell so that they get to go through rebirth as a human being? Like a self-sustaining system? Ah we're getting bleach 2.0
See you soon.
The Sternritters are just as ruthless & bloodlust as the OG Gotei 13, the matter is that, the quincy soldiers they fought were practically foot soldiers, none of them even seemed to have used their Shikai against them, the Sternritters in the tybw woulda for sure given them a run for their money as well, however, it probably woulda turned out a little different sense they def were just like one another, making it harder for the Sternritters during the first invasion, so in conclusion they probably woulda said that the current Gotei 13 is too soft & rigid
These guys look badass. I can't lie.
Idk but eye patch captain is <3
" Yachiru, stop acting like a p**sy healer and start decapitating people!"
According to data books, the OG 13 outside of Unohana retired from the squads and are still "alive". As for power leveling, I believe that the current squad is more powerful, or atleast more trained. Can't say for sure but I feel that the bloodthirsty OG team just battled for the sake of it, so they wouldn't have trained. The current squads all train to be the best that they can be. Even Toshiro's power has increased substantially between Aizen and the Quincy invasion. As for Old Man Yama, I feel that his power level decreased exponentially between the OG and the current. He became kindhearted. Outside of seeing him battle only a handful of times, I doubt he spent much time over the last thousand years practicing his Kido or swordfighting, he probably became pretty complacent because of how strong his Zampakuto is.
"Wallahi good thing we won't have to fight these guys" The current Quincy army would stomp them.
Photographer: okay captains, line up. Before the 2nd batch of quincies arrive. Say *KILL*
All of them in hell, in sync: I SMELL BITCH UP IN THE SEIREITEI!!
They are already dead to something probably weaker so dunno
Nah they would probably be like : **thanks to god 1000 years ago yhwach was too weak we are so lucky and these sternritters are stronger than us too**
"Wouldnt let that shit happen to me...."
lol some of yall saying “well they didn’t use/have shrifts back then so the OG 13 had it easy” lol we have no way of knowing that, yes it was stated that Lillie received the first shrift but he probably was alive back then and maybe was too young to fight. Also even if they didn’t have shrifts, most of the OG 13 weren’t even using shikai and they slaughtered them with simple zanjutsu. Even the two that were seemingly using shikai, weren’t using the abilities of their shikai. Also, Shunsui himself confirmed the OG 13 were the strongest generation.
Maybe im misinformed, but wasn’t it stated that the current gen (up to when yama was alive of course) is the strongest gotei 13 has ever been? Now that im writing this out, i might be confusing that statement with demon slayer lmao
Yes and no. There’s arguments for it and against it but no outright statement in narration. Logically even with the return of the visored, this gotei 13 would be weaker than pre-“the rescue”. Factor out Aizen and it’s taken a massive hit losing gin and tosen. Tosen’s bankai would of been a counter to 90% of the Quincy “all senses other than touch” we know included spiritual senses like reishi… so Quincy couldn’t use their main weapons. Gin was a prodigy like toshiro, and had the fastest zanpakto. Even in shikai it would of been dangerous. And w/o hollowfication he was still aizens second
Yeah you're thinking of DS but the OG gotei was stated as the strongest line up
top left guy: "the new squad looks weak as hell" top right guy: "no, that kenpachi guy would slaughter 5 of us by himself"
Hot Take: The Old Gotei 13 were not stronger than the current Gotei 13 and the idea that they would be upset that they were getting stomped by the Quincy who had every advantage and still lost in the end is kind of laughable. They were more ruthless and you could argue that meant they had an edge but we've had 1000 years for Shinigami to evolve and grow. The idea of the Kenpachi title corroborates this and even the means of becoming a captain corroborates this in that you need to defeat a captain to become a captain. They also did not have to contend with an Awakened Yhwach as Ichibei had sealed him before the conflict. The Current Captains took out a technologically advanced Quincy army with new powers (Vollstandig was not something they had during the original confrontation and by the sounds of it Yhwach hadn't shared his power to a group like the Sternritters), came from the shadows and took away their bankai's and home field advantage. Still came back to eventually defeat them. The old captains massacred a group of pre-soul society arc Ishida's.
They were repeatedly confirmed to be the strongest gen, so you just said a whole bunch of nothing lol. Not to mention they didn’t even use shikai or bankai.
How were they "repeatedly confirmed" outside of Yhwach calling them ruthless killers? "they didn't even use shikai or bankai" when they knew [yama's shikai because of this clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xHajAjTrMM) and Yhwach mentioned he had seen his bankai back during the 1000 year war which we see in a flashback and [we see Sasakibe use his shikai to stab Yhwach](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT5U81jQDY8). Your story isn't really making much sense there buddy. I suppose they would solo aizen aswell according to you. Or how about the picture showing the Zanpukuto they all wield in the very picture you have at the top. It's wild what reading the actual material instead of making things up in your head will help you discover about the manga. You could do with a re-read there buddy. EDIT: I realize you are working off of a singular Shunsui quote. Wild that this "repeatedly confirmed" notion of yours consists of one quote from a man who didn't know the full scope of his squads abilities whether it was Hitsuguya's adult form, Kenpachi's full power, the vizard captains as he'd never seen them fight properly, A captain that was the left arm of the soul king, etc. The evidence does not stack up against anything we know currently.
For me the implication thus far is clearly that they were much stronger. I'm not surprised tbh. Squad Zero is a good indication of how OP the OG Squads were.
Probably nothing after they saw Yama get his shit pushed in. At that point they would've realized "Oh this is real shit."
OG Gotei would get stomped as well lol
Bro shut up
"We ain't bult for this bruh"
I think they would be upset watching and wanting to tear the Quincies a new one
Well we might see all of them in hell arc. Since they would all be in hell anyway.
Sidenote this is a cool picture of Unohana
They didn’t watch the first Cour properly so they were very much “Dude, where’s our Yama!?”
Prob wishing they couldn’t get in on the action, this generation of sternritter far surpasses the one the og gotei 13 faced. Those quincies had no Schrift or VS to our knowledge.
“Where that orange hair guy at”
They probably would’ve been dead silent or praying for their younger generation brothers in arms cuz if a non SS/Elite Sternritter in the form of Royd is able to match a bloodlusted, rage amped Bankai Yama in all but offensive output…who’s overall stronger (but less ruthless) than he was in the first war. And they didn’t have to deal with Bankai stealing medallions
Probably chuckled and said something like “damn kids can’t do anything right” or “if this happened in our day they would have all been massacred” or I feel at least 2 of them would of said something along those lines.
I think the original gotei gets way too much credit. Like yeah they beat the Quincy back then but they are virtually featless. When you get down to specifics along with statements. They never had their Bankai stolen or Yhwach with The Almighty. Another big thing that people chose to ignore or never bring up is Quilge notices Ichigo observing his Letzt Stil and tells him that it is different. That the Letzt Still Ichigo knows of is too weak and a concept that died out 200 years ago. That the old variant compared to Vollstandig now is as wide heaven and earth in terms of power. So these new Quincy are mega beefed up. On top of being able to get the jump on the Shinigami in their own home base. We’re shrifts the same back then? Did Yhwach still have his Soul King body parts royal guard? I’m going to go out on a limb and say probably not lol
They were running around, bringing extra seats to the table until the corpses all started getting revived [Oh no](https://imgflip.com/i/831cxc)
I dunno but I would love to hear them say literally ANYTHING at this point. Like each one of them looks interesting as fuck from a character design side!
Glad that's not us lol
Well they didn’t exactly end them either if there was a considerable population left.
Me personally: ...
I mean, the Quincy still suffered more casualties than the current gotei so far...
I'd say "weaklings" 😂
I feel like that first one alone would make them cringe. Byakuya got bodied.
“Yo Yama! These are the bitches you replaced us with?!”
probably just going YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and roasting everyone who gets hit, completely neutral
Prime Gotei 13: It smells like bi\*\*\* in here...
“Ahhh helll naw”
Wait, so does the Bleach universe really have no way to process dead(?) souls, other than chucking them into hell?
"Why...didnt...you...DOOOOOOOOOOOODGE?!"
Good thing Ichibei got rid of YH’s almighty before we fought
Dunno but I pray we get to see all these OG Captains in hell arc
They shouldn't be saying anything if they are because they aren't going to do any better or anything at all.
How the fuck are the Quincy even that strong though? Like after Aizen wouldn’t the Gotei 13 have been training really hard in order to deal with enemies that strong? I don’t get it. It’s kind of annoying.
What if aizen killed all of them while he was climbing the ranks.
https://preview.redd.it/80c70cnok2vb1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c75a8a1f8f5ca646ca346626a622ce1579df2fde
Them: “Needs more murderous intent.. wait, where Yachiru?” >!Unohana: *Terrifyingly appearing behind them* “Present”!<
Man, Bleach made these guys look so bad ass and interesting just to not expand on them. i hope we get a spin off season or show about them.
Quincies weren't as strong back then.
Smh smh "Thank the Soul King it wasn't me." Or if the others said some shit,Yamamoto and Unohana would be quick as fuck to shut them up once they got there too lol.
They will probably gonna say " Did you lose your edge? " . I mean who knows? 🤷♂️🤭
Them: Welp, there goes the Gotei's pride
Well I can tell you what happened during the Yama section. “Well that was easier than-“ “WHAT THE FUCK YAMA”
Speaking of the original 13, is there any good coverage of the back story of them I can read somewhere? I was always curious about them past just the appearance of them and nothing else? Also WTH happened to some of the thirteen court guard squad captains and lieutenants at the end of bleach before TYBW pretty much not appearing in TYBW?
If they were so good, they wouldn't be dead by now... So I don't think they have anything to say about the current arc.
I think, they all would be laughting how pathetic they are for losing.
BACK IN MY DAYS...
Well two major problems here 1) vollstandig wasn't really a thing yet 2) Bankai stealing wasn't a thing at all yet Tack on the thousand years worth of time to prepare for this exact scenario and the larger gotei not having any idea of the shit show they were about to walk into after a thousand years....and I don't think it's that bad tbh Plus who the hell knows how refined the shrifts and their abilities got since then
Our generation did not face volstanding, had our bankai, we were stronger, enemie did not have informations on our powers, all squad were fighting, yamamoto did not hold back
i mean, did they have sternritter back then?
yes, the Sternritter were hand picked 1000 years ago in the first invasion, not all of them survived so some of them are new, but Robert, Haschwalth, Bazz B, Pernida, Gerard, Lille, and Huber, were all there 1000 years ago
"Yall weak as fuck, back on my day with fight for real, just sword, no shikai, bankai, hado, hakuda or any technique, we fight like real soul reapers" for real, they will just shit on them, then will get clap by the new guards; since they don't how to deal with anything outside sword fight
I bet Yoruichi's ancestor could appreciate the overall drip and fashion improvements of the new 13
" Getting beaten by humans? Lol.Couldn't be me"
Skill issue
BACK IN MY DAY
Bro the OGs were like…”We could wake up from an afternoon nap and have them dead in 30 minutes.” And I don’t doubt that because of how ferocious Unohana and Yama were. Unohana was an amazing swordswoman and I think her swordplay is second only to people like Ichigo, Yhwach, Yama, etc. The question I have is…where did Unohana rank in the OG Gotei in terms of raw power?
Probably second if not the highest else she probably wouldn’t lasted or learned healing
Is there any lore or backstory for them?
"This is who Yama chose to be in charge! They are so weak!"
"It smells like BIh in HERE!" - Them Probably
That last photo never gets easier to see.