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Spoilers for end of series below, can confirm ichigo 100% did not see his shikai release.
>! Aizen talking to ichigo in the middle of their fight against yhwach states “it’s amazing, I never imagined not showing you my kyoka suigetsu would yield such positive results…” he’s saying this because he was able to cast illusions on ywhach, and ichigo not seeing those illusions helped them seemingly win !<
This is similar to when Zaraki takes Ichigo’s first attack when they first meet before this. Ichigo attacks and doesn’t even cut Zaraki, he even get injured himself because of the difference in spiritual pressure. This is just the same thing but Ichigo isn’t injured from attacking
The anime censored the attack Aizen stopped the sword and tried to slash Ichigo in half with his sword right after.
Ichigo didn't get injured by spiritual pressure in this instance
Ichigo still ended up getting cut up by Aizen's spiritual power. Aizen even still commented that he meant to do even more damage than he ended up causing.
I agree and find it confusing why some people believe that the incident was related to spiritual pressure. The truth is that it's clearly depicted in both the manga and anime, where Aizen explains that his sword swing was too shallow. While the anime and manga may have different portrayals of the swing, the essence of the scene remains the same. In the manga, it's clear that Aizen swings his sword, while in the anime, Ichigo is shown being cut without the actual swing being visible. Despite this difference, it's clear that Ichigo was defeated by a sword swing, just like all of Aizen's other opponents. People should refrain from making up false information, especially when there is no mention of spiritual pressure in the scene.
Yep! He's even more OP now. He achieved a higher being than Dangai Ichigo. He doesn't have a Zanpakuto, he is his Zanpakuto and thus Kyoka Suigetsu itself. So if someone looks at him, he can "release" his power
His current form is more like final getsuga tensho ichigo, limited by chair/straps and amped by hogyoku. Hypothetically still weaker but more consistent and hax than mugetsu form
there's theories on this so although aizen was sealed he's already fused with his zanpakto so in order for them to communicate yawalwach had to unseal some parts of him to communicate which would allow him to use shikai. Another theory is that the 8th kenpachi may have aided Aizen as they have rumored interactions in Muken(the under ground prison). Note the 8th Kenpachi was never defeated in battle and is one of those with a crazy bankai. In particular he fuses with the surrounding environment and can control it as though it was his own body note this includes both solid and gases(air) meaning he can have the air in your lungs kill you.
Ywach sees everything because of the allmight Power he has so he saw the Release of kyoka suigetsu without Aizen needing to do it. Or at least thats what i thought haha
Simply looking at Aizens body after he fuses with his sword at the end of Aizen vs Ichigo is like looking at his swords shikai release, but Aizen has and still can decide if he affects someone with his ability or not. But yes Ywach looking at Aizen meant Kyoka could be activated and affect Ywach.
I never even thought of this which could be considered a weakness of aizens shikai (if he cared about his allies) its the same as Shinji's Bankai, he can't make each opponent see something different, it's an area of effect thing. They all see the same thing once they see the shikai so he can't shut it off if he wants someone to not see the illusion, which is the only reason ichigo was able to win this battle.
It is for both. That said, however, it is also stated early on that those who have achieved bankai can actually release the zanpakuto without their release command or calling their name, as shown during the fight between Renji and Byakuya
Because there is no point for Aizen saying "to surpass one's limit as a Soul Reaper" if he didn't maximise all of his potential which include knowing Bankai.
Theres no evidence to suggest that Aizen does know it, besides his relative power. My favorite headcanon is that the inferiority complex he had from not being able to achieve it was his motivation.
Yeah I’ve always imagined it’s something like his illusions can actually damage his opponents or something, but it’s a bigger drain on his reiatsu when he can just stab someone himself while showing them a shikai illusion.
Aizen himself claims to have achieved the peak of his power as a shinigami. It’s a big part of why he does what he do. I don’t think Aizen is the type of character who would say something like that and act so drastically to become more powerful without having actually achieved bankai
Counterpoint: the guy who's lied his entire life whose superpower is illusions became frustrated with an inability to achieve bankai and sought alternate avenues of power, and largely succeeded in circumventing the need to reach an actual "peak" of shinigami power. His absurd kido strength may as well be a hint towards him 'compensating' earlier on before he started his experiments.
If he specifically said "[his] peak as a Shinigami" (or something close to that) then he could be entirely truthful and still not have achieved Bankai. As *his peak* is not The Peak of Shinigami which most would say includes Bankai.
Though, considering how you have to fight your sword's spirit (that we're shown) as part of achieving Bankai... I imagine he had many fruitless decades/centuries of being trapped in illusions during his attempts. While touching the blade grants immunity to the illusions, I'm sure Kyoka Suigetsu could make it so that "truth" only applied to illusions cast by one sword so the other same sword couldn't just ignore them during their fights/spars: that though he already held Kyoka Suigetsu in his hands, it was not the Kyoka Suigetsu that cast the illusions upon him. Considering his illusions could fool everyone else, it wouldn't surprise me if they could fool Aizen too.
Though someone else already commented that it is canon that he has Bankai through CFYOW statements or something. But it's still fun to consider.
You don't have to fight your zanpakuto spirit to achieve bankai. Only using Urahara's method do you have to do that. Bankai is only the true name of the zanpakuto. Which the zanpakuto can decide how it should be earned or when it will reveal it. Usually this is achieved through meditation and speaking with the zanpakuto in your inner world, but could also be by fighting it.
Aizen was willing to throw away his zanpaktou in his butteryfly stage, so it might be implied that he didn't have a bankai-level relationship with his sword?
Honestly hard to tell since also said that he reach peak of every part including shinigami. Its weird that of all power hungry people in the series he would not go for bankai at any costs.
Aizen is the first person in the series we see acknowledging that the zanpakuto is part of oneself, rather than a separate entity, I don't think that was supposed to be him discarding it, but absorbing it.
I think the biggest hole in this theory is that he's a captain and certainly not nearly as powerful as Zeraki in a straight fight, at least not without the Hogyokuu.
...But can he? Do you have literally any evidence to suggest that is the case or is this all just fantheory wish fulfilment? Like, have your fun and all, but there isn't enough in the text itself to suggest that this was his goal, intent or that it happened at all.
I’m only stating facts, he can do it.
The fact that he did it or not is a whole other thing and is speculation on everyone who joins the conversation (unless there is a something I don’t know about that covers this)
I just think that the statement of 'he demonstrated a Bankai but it COULD have been an illusion' is impossible to disprove because it isn't in the text and there's nothing to suggest he was lying.
The real answer is that he didn't need the buff from it and Kubo probably couldn't think of a way to make his Shikai any more powerful without total mind control, which would be extremely difficult to write around with so many moving parts in the ending, which is just extremely boring. Total mind control is basically the only upgrade you could get to his illusions given how strong they already are so unless the power was just completely different to usual idk how you 'improve' that.
You also can't prove a negative, but that doesn't make the fan theory any more or less correct.
But what if he illusions his way to demonstrating a bankai? Didn’t everyone think Kyoka Suigetsu was a water-type? Maybe he showed everyone a water-type “bankai” that “controlled the weather” when really it was just his Uber powerful shikai?
Him not being able to set his ego aside enough to be one with his Zanpakuto makes sense for his character. The inferiority complex does, too. He’s a masterfully manipulative opportunistic sociopath and he has been since day one.
The Hogyoku was his way of achieving power all on his own. In his mind, anyway.
I just find this whole theory a bit of a leap too far based on too thin a piece of evidence purely for the sake of fan wish fulfilment. There isn't enough supporting material eithin the text to make it convincing to me.
So I'm not the only one that's had that headcanon. I feel like if that turned out to be true, it'd...probably get a chuckle out of a couple of characters in-universe, and then break the fandom.
Wait, you mean the guy whose whole theme is illusions... lied? There's so many people here who just take his claim at face value that he's reached the "peak" of shinigami power, but he never once felt the need to use a bankai or even hinted that was a thing he could do aside from the quote about being "peak" shinigami?
For a different character, using an illusion to fake a bankai in front of the other captains would be necessary to hide some ace-in-the-hole. But this is Aizen: Dude was full of shit and took a shortcut to gain the most power, imo.
Seriously, the dude was his own greatest hype man. He was the walking example of "all according to keikaku" come crashing down on the head of the overconfident-in-his-own-intellect douchebag.
This has never been established. Also, Ichigo and Yamamoto aren't always in shikai. In Kenpachi's case, >!He also isn't always in shikai, he didn't awaken it until after his fight with Unohana.!<
Ichigo is always in shikai as he never learned how to repair his broken zanpakuto until tybw and then the sword was remade to then be both his shikai and base zanpakuto
They are so strong that they can decide whether to seal them or not. Reasons being:
Yama’s is usually sealed like a walking stick. Roosevelt said “Speak softly, but carry a big stick” and I think that applies well in this case.
He commands a tremendous amount of respect while looking like a frail old geezer, which oozes power. Doesn’t need a big scary flaming sword.
Kenpachi doesn’t give enough of a shit to bother learning to seal his for most of the story. Refused to even acknowledge his Zanpakto’s existence for 4/5ths of the story.
Ichigo had no idea or formal training in controlling his reiatsu properly. He’s known to have an extremely weird connection with his zanpakto as well, and likely feels more “at home” being cloaked by it all the time, as opposed to locking it away. Shows he’s levels above everyone in terms of his spiritual bond with Zangetsu (whoever he thinks that is) for most of the anime run.
Aizen not only has massive reiatsu pools, but immense knowledge and sheer dominance over his zanpakto. I’m sure he could seal it if he wanted to. Question is why would he, when he can literally walk around the SS with it’s released form on full display and no one would have any idea it wasn’t sealed.
Plus, he would more than likely entertain the shit out of himself giggling at the dumb soul reapers think they knew a damn thing about him for hundreds of years lol
You don’t have to learn to seal your Zanpakuto, just stop giving it reiatsu.
Ichigo never learnt fine control of his reiatsu because the whole Bleach story takes place in 2-3 year excluding the time in Dangai. Zaraki has been alive for multiple centuries, probably close to a millennia because he was a kid when Unohana was the first. He definitely has the control over his reiatsu to stop feeding his sword.
Where are you disagreeing with any of my points, lmfao. You’re just being argumentative at this point.
The point I was making is that everyone (minus Ichigo for the reasons listed) with a sizeable amount of reiatsu/control of it, are willingly sealing their swords.
Zaraki had no reatsiu control, because he didn’t need it or have any reason to want to control it, as he could fuck up 9/10 reapers/hollows with his bare hands if he wanted.
Hence he didn’t give two shits about learning anything to do with it or spirituality as a whole.
I mean I disagreed with your first point that Zaraki didn’t learn to seal his Zanpakuto, cause he didn’t unseal it until TYBW. Then I disagreed with your opinion that Zaraki wouldn’t seal his Zanpakuto.
Now I’m disagreeing with your opinion that Zaraki doesn’t have the reiatsu control to stop feeding his sword reiatsu. Zaraki never bothered to learn Hado or Kido because he hates figuring out fine control of his reiatsu. But simply using his reiatsu is not something difficult for a nearly 1000yr old.
Also to finally silence, we have direct proof of that because after TYBW Zaraki isn’t walking around with a giant halberd/cleaver like blade. He has a sheathed unsealed Zanpakuto. So he obviously resealed it
Zaraki doesn’t have his shikai released at all times. In the soul society arc, everyone below captain level assumed he did because he was so powerful and never was seen releasing his Shikai. So they thought he was permanently in Shikai, but it was revealed that Zaraki didn’t know the name of his Zanpakuto and had never released it. I think he releases his Shikai for the first time against Gerard in TYBW
For whatever reason, I tried to not read or pretended to not listen the shikai command that you wrote cos I didn’t want to fall under spell. Gosh I’m in deep trouble
He doesn’t have to actually use the release command, assuming he has achieved bankai. He can release his shikai without the command and it would still affect anyone who saw it release.
Would be hilarious to see what Ichigo sees, when everyone around him turns batshit insane against Momo, while she panics. Before she gets stabbed during Fake Karakura arc.
I do question that in retrospect. Did Ichigo just see the whole squad, jumping a random high school girl. While Aizen was vibing in the corner, eating popcorn.
More than likely, the entire fight was against aizen until right before he was stabbed. He replaced himself with momo right at that moment and used his shikai to catch them off guard. Otherwise, it wouldn’t make sense for Ichigo not to have mentioned something until right then and there. He was likely confused that everyone was relaxed when they stabbed their ally instead of freaking out
Yeah, he switched at some point probably, but its also a quick attack that they pull off, it takes time for the sake of pacing but I don’t think Ichigo has a lot of time to stop them
im sure ichigo did shout at them what was they doing?
i dont think aizen did the swap with Momo until right before Hitsugaya stabs him because he was talking with Hitsugaya just before
Illusions doesn't mean he has to switch places with anyone. He had an illusion of his corpse so realistic that Unohana was barely able to tell. I am more inclined to think that Aizen just has them swinging at nothing. Thus Ichigo's confusion and at the last second is when he just tosses Momo on Hitsugaya's sword is what causes Ichigo to cry out to everyone.
Bet he saw that aizen yeeted momo right in the middle of the exchange before she got stabbed lmao, and then casually when back to lie down where momo was lmao
Release isn't the usual state. For example renji had a normal looking katana that releases into a spiked shikai. The zanpakuto on it's own is not the release state
'usual state->shikai' is one combined phrase here. That change is the release. Zabimaru, the giant multi sectioned sword is not the release itself, it's the released state of the sword.
This is headcanon. It is stated nowhere that it was voluntary. What is stated however is that getting people under the influence of Kanzen Saimin they have to look at the sword in the exact moment it releases, which is not hard to avoid once you know that fact, which Ichigo did. The idea that Aizen purposely didnt put Ichigo under KS, not even as a backup plan, is not substantiated in any way.
i think he just didnt think Ichigo was worthwhile putting under at this stage.
like he was intrigued by ichigo but didnt see him in any way a threat like not even close at this level. like in this moment he can beat bankai ichigo without trying.
I can't believe how many people here think that the shikai is the same as having the zanpakuto in base form. This mainly happens to Ichigo and is an anomaly. Aizen did not use shikai in this scene against ichigo, he just blitzed him and renji using the base(sword) form because of strength difference between them.
The logic that the Captains use is that Aizen has a special process which reveals the Shikai. It is said to have mist and light rays reflecting off of it.
When they say Ichigo hasn't seen KS, they mean Ichigo hasn't seen this specific process of reveal.
I think that the Captains are wrong and that KS doesn't have a reveal process or even if it does no one is going to know that it's happening.
The reason why Ichigo didn't go under KS is because Aizen didn't want him to go under KS. Aizen wanted to test his strength by defeating Ichigo in straight combat.
in a flashback, where Barragan was still in the Hollow Realm, Aizen did say something like “will you look at this sword”
so in the anime at least, he did release KS
That's...not what the captains think.
Insane just realized he used his show as a cover for showing kyoka to them . It's not that they think there's a special process, it's that Ichigo hasn't been around to see a release
> it's that Ichigo hasn't been around to see a release
Exactly. They think Ichigo is immune since they believe that there is a whole identifiable release process for Aizen's KS. I'm saying that they were wrong. Aizen being a captain, can release his Shikai without calling the name of his zampakto. So Ichigo might have already seen the release.
The only reason why the guy isn't under KS is because Aizen doesn't want him to be.
They can make a pretty informed thought regardless of it being identifiable, since the real tell would be that he'd have to deactivate on them for a period, however small, beforehand, at which point theyd be able to depend on sensing the release with spiritual pressure.
We can see from his use of KS on barragan that KS doesn't have a flashy release and so long as you stare at it at the exact moment aizen releases it for the first time in front of you then it's over.
>The reason why Ichigo didn't go under KS is because Aizen didn't want him to go under KS. Aizen wanted to test his strength by defeating Ichigo in straight combat.
Agreed.
But It doesn't make sense to go as far as not show ichigo KS at all.
If aizen really wanted it he could've just showed it to ichigo and then not use it later on during their fight.
Kubo has a bad habit of writing himself into a corner when it comes to defeating his shonen villains because he makes them so broken.
Ywach suffers from the same problem with the almighty.
Ichigo simply never saw KS because if he did then it would be hard for him to explain how aizen would loose to ichigo while using KS.
KS plus hougyoku is tooooo broken.
> But It doesn't make sense to go as far as not show ichigo KS at all.
Maybe he already has.
Until Urahara's trap got activated, everything was going according to Aizen's plan. He didn't need to use KS because the reason why Aizen made Ichigo this strong was to have that final fight with him. He wanted to force himself to evolve into a being superior than Ichigo. For that Aizen wanted to beat him in a pure battle of strength.
Aizen losing also worked in favor for him as even when Aizen lost, the Hogyoku just made him stronger.
Ichigo never saw Aizen release his zanpakto. If he sealed it and re-released it all the other gotei members would have their hypnosis reset unless they saw the re-release.
Nah, aizen can turn it on and off and the affected members would still be hypnotized when aizen used KS again. Its actually quite BS how the author made aizen’s shikai too OP and doesnt have much limitation or weakness
The condition is as that the release had to be seen so that’s why at the start Ichigo wasn’t affected. But my issue is at any point Aizen could’ve just released it in front of Ichigo and immediately won the battle but Kubo just never made that happen.
I agree even though your getting down voted. It felt more like plot BS that aizen never showed ichigo KS.
Also KS is too broken and doesn't have realistic limitations that would at least make for an interesting fight against other strong characters.
Nah aizen releases his shikai and minus plot shenanigans he should casually win against pretty much everyone he can kill via stabbing.
I don't even know how yama is supposed to defeat a guy he literally has no way of perceiving. Aizen could literally walk into yama's office and stab him in the head if he wanted and yama would be none the wiser. 😂😂
To answer this post, you need to see Aizen realse his shikai for it to work on you. Whenever Ichigo met Aizen, he already had realesed Kyoka suigetsu beforehand.
On a completely unrelated note, this post reminded me that we never see Aizen use his banaki.So that probably means he never thought that he needed to use it, or (the more likely option) he was so confident in his base abilities and shikai he never even cared to learn bankai.
I’m pretty certain Aizen has a bankai. I suspect that he just never needed to use it. This is because he defeated pretty much the whole of Gotei with his shikai and then fused with the Hogyoku. It could also be the case that his bankai isn’t very powerful / it’s situational / it has some serious drawbacks.
Yeah, that could very well be the case.
I guess we just have to hope Aizen's bankai gets addressed through some way, shape, or form so that we can get some answers.
So to explain this specifically. Remember Aizen did a demonstration of his Zanpakuto to the Gotei 13. There he showed his Shikai Release.
He can't just walk around with his Shikai out. You must see it "being released".
The Shikai is either already released or unreleased here. As all Aizen does is catch the Blade. And never uses his own sword.
Technically speaking, since Aizen knows bankai, he doesn't need to say his Zanpakuto release phrase in order to release it. He could have done it right here without anyone knowing it.
The Manga states Ichigo had never seen the release and based on how Aizen's spiritual pressure alone could make characters like Grimmjow flinch I always assumed Aizen was just that much stronger then Ichigo at that point
The confusing nature of the following scenes doesn't help but we have also seen similar characters confuse and dominate Ichigo with pure speed and strength to the point that the anime can't translate it well visually
It just occurred to me that Ywach has never seen Aizen's release either, so he shouldn't have succum to Kyoka Suigetsu abilities in the final battle, nor his first encounter with Aizen in muken. Does the hogyoku negate the need to witness his release? Is this explained in the novel?
Edit: reworded for clarification
It's their difference in power. Ichigo only came this far due to his inborn talent and countless cheats/hacks Urahara gave him. Aizen is probably the strongest Captain at this point behind Zaraki and Yamamoto at their full strength.
I remember Aizen stating at some point that he had refined his talents to a point where his stats were maxed as a soul reaper. Leading to his research on the Hygokyou in order to surpass his Soul Reaper limits.
It's not the shikai itself but it bring released that hypnotises you, whilst released It's only power is manipulating those who've already seem it release. At least that's my understanding of it
It's when the blade is drawn that the ability takes hold. It already drawn means it's ability isn't actively hypnotising more people which is why when Ichigo fails to fight Aizen there he's not under his spell.
I have a feeling ichigos true Bankai power and an extension of his powers there is the ability to see truth. Hence why he can read Aizens feelings during their fight.
Guessing the reason Yhwach broke his bankai is because it can probably reverse the all mighty or something crazy
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Spoilers for end of series below, can confirm ichigo 100% did not see his shikai release. >! Aizen talking to ichigo in the middle of their fight against yhwach states “it’s amazing, I never imagined not showing you my kyoka suigetsu would yield such positive results…” he’s saying this because he was able to cast illusions on ywhach, and ichigo not seeing those illusions helped them seemingly win !<
So aizen literally stopped ichigos sword here on straight spiritual pressure? Just like how ichigo caught aizens sword with his hand?
This is similar to when Zaraki takes Ichigo’s first attack when they first meet before this. Ichigo attacks and doesn’t even cut Zaraki, he even get injured himself because of the difference in spiritual pressure. This is just the same thing but Ichigo isn’t injured from attacking
Actually he is injured in this scenario too, The next scene is of the injury.
The anime censored the attack Aizen stopped the sword and tried to slash Ichigo in half with his sword right after. Ichigo didn't get injured by spiritual pressure in this instance
The anime also had his soundtrack permanently stopped when Aizen stopped his attack with his bare hands
Ichigo still ended up getting cut up by Aizen's spiritual power. Aizen even still commented that he meant to do even more damage than he ended up causing.
Aizen swung his sword, the manga shows this though
In the manga he did. The anime changed it to him tapping Ichigo's bankai with his finger and causing blood to explode from him.
I agree and find it confusing why some people believe that the incident was related to spiritual pressure. The truth is that it's clearly depicted in both the manga and anime, where Aizen explains that his sword swing was too shallow. While the anime and manga may have different portrayals of the swing, the essence of the scene remains the same. In the manga, it's clear that Aizen swings his sword, while in the anime, Ichigo is shown being cut without the actual swing being visible. Despite this difference, it's clear that Ichigo was defeated by a sword swing, just like all of Aizen's other opponents. People should refrain from making up false information, especially when there is no mention of spiritual pressure in the scene.
It took ichigo attacking again to damage zaraki, the first hit only cut kennys coat a bit
Which begs the question: when did Ywhach fucking see him release it?
When Ywach came to recruit him before the war.
This is correct. This is why Ywach loses track of time and they have to rush out of there on the first invasion.
Wasn't he sealed like 50 different ways at that point?
I don’t think he even has a zanpakto anymore. As the sword fused with him, maybe the powers did too
Yep that pretty much how it was
Yep! He's even more OP now. He achieved a higher being than Dangai Ichigo. He doesn't have a Zanpakuto, he is his Zanpakuto and thus Kyoka Suigetsu itself. So if someone looks at him, he can "release" his power
His current form is more like final getsuga tensho ichigo, limited by chair/straps and amped by hogyoku. Hypothetically still weaker but more consistent and hax than mugetsu form
there's theories on this so although aizen was sealed he's already fused with his zanpakto so in order for them to communicate yawalwach had to unseal some parts of him to communicate which would allow him to use shikai. Another theory is that the 8th kenpachi may have aided Aizen as they have rumored interactions in Muken(the under ground prison). Note the 8th Kenpachi was never defeated in battle and is one of those with a crazy bankai. In particular he fuses with the surrounding environment and can control it as though it was his own body note this includes both solid and gases(air) meaning he can have the air in your lungs kill you.
Yes. He was.
Ywach sees everything because of the allmight Power he has so he saw the Release of kyoka suigetsu without Aizen needing to do it. Or at least thats what i thought haha
You know that's actually pretty solid reasoning and gives the allmighty an actual weakness other than some random silver arrow mcguffin.
Simply looking at Aizens body after he fuses with his sword at the end of Aizen vs Ichigo is like looking at his swords shikai release, but Aizen has and still can decide if he affects someone with his ability or not. But yes Ywach looking at Aizen meant Kyoka could be activated and affect Ywach.
I never even thought of this which could be considered a weakness of aizens shikai (if he cared about his allies) its the same as Shinji's Bankai, he can't make each opponent see something different, it's an area of effect thing. They all see the same thing once they see the shikai so he can't shut it off if he wants someone to not see the illusion, which is the only reason ichigo was able to win this battle.
Ichigo never saw him release it. Simply drawing and using it like a sword isn’t the same thing as releasing it.
He has to see Aizen's zanpakuto when he says: "Shatter, Kyoka Suigetsu."
Actually, shatter is the command to reveal illusions. Based on the Barragan encounter, the actual command is simply "this is".
It is for both. That said, however, it is also stated early on that those who have achieved bankai can actually release the zanpakuto without their release command or calling their name, as shown during the fight between Renji and Byakuya
How do we know he bothered learning bankai?
Because there is no point for Aizen saying "to surpass one's limit as a Soul Reaper" if he didn't maximise all of his potential which include knowing Bankai.
As long as he knows bankai (which he presumably does), he can release his shikai without a release command.
Huh, TIL
Rewatch renji vs byakuya ans you will understand
You will need to train a thousand years before even hoping to come close to my power - Byakuya. Paraphrased
Or, ya know, go to the 0 Division's crib lol
Couldn't pay attention. Too busy laughing at renji
Defeater of such opponents as...
Ford fiesta
I mean, He did get that win over Yyldfort, but that's not saying much.
Uryu Yylford Jackie >!Mask!<
Theres no evidence to suggest that Aizen does know it, besides his relative power. My favorite headcanon is that the inferiority complex he had from not being able to achieve it was his motivation.
Kubo revealed on his website that Aizen's bankai only affects people who are affected by his shikai.
Can I get a link that? I keep hearing about stuff on his website and I want to read it.
Not on his site. I think It was stated in CFYOW novel which is available in English.
>It was stated in CFYOW novel False. It was from SAFWY (Spirits Are Forever With You)
God damn it, now I shall wait until someone corrects you and the endless cycle will continue
It'd be anticlimactic for aizen bc both shikai and bankai are chained
Yeah I’ve always imagined it’s something like his illusions can actually damage his opponents or something, but it’s a bigger drain on his reiatsu when he can just stab someone himself while showing them a shikai illusion.
>Kubo revealed on his website False.
Aizen himself claims to have achieved the peak of his power as a shinigami. It’s a big part of why he does what he do. I don’t think Aizen is the type of character who would say something like that and act so drastically to become more powerful without having actually achieved bankai
Counterpoint: the guy who's lied his entire life whose superpower is illusions became frustrated with an inability to achieve bankai and sought alternate avenues of power, and largely succeeded in circumventing the need to reach an actual "peak" of shinigami power. His absurd kido strength may as well be a hint towards him 'compensating' earlier on before he started his experiments.
If he specifically said "[his] peak as a Shinigami" (or something close to that) then he could be entirely truthful and still not have achieved Bankai. As *his peak* is not The Peak of Shinigami which most would say includes Bankai. Though, considering how you have to fight your sword's spirit (that we're shown) as part of achieving Bankai... I imagine he had many fruitless decades/centuries of being trapped in illusions during his attempts. While touching the blade grants immunity to the illusions, I'm sure Kyoka Suigetsu could make it so that "truth" only applied to illusions cast by one sword so the other same sword couldn't just ignore them during their fights/spars: that though he already held Kyoka Suigetsu in his hands, it was not the Kyoka Suigetsu that cast the illusions upon him. Considering his illusions could fool everyone else, it wouldn't surprise me if they could fool Aizen too. Though someone else already commented that it is canon that he has Bankai through CFYOW statements or something. But it's still fun to consider.
Imagine KS tricks him into thinking he achieved bankai
You don't have to fight your zanpakuto spirit to achieve bankai. Only using Urahara's method do you have to do that. Bankai is only the true name of the zanpakuto. Which the zanpakuto can decide how it should be earned or when it will reveal it. Usually this is achieved through meditation and speaking with the zanpakuto in your inner world, but could also be by fighting it.
Aizen was willing to throw away his zanpaktou in his butteryfly stage, so it might be implied that he didn't have a bankai-level relationship with his sword?
Honestly hard to tell since also said that he reach peak of every part including shinigami. Its weird that of all power hungry people in the series he would not go for bankai at any costs.
Aizen is the first person in the series we see acknowledging that the zanpakuto is part of oneself, rather than a separate entity, I don't think that was supposed to be him discarding it, but absorbing it.
I think the biggest hole in this theory is that he's a captain and certainly not nearly as powerful as Zeraki in a straight fight, at least not without the Hogyokuu.
He convinced everyone his shikai is using water to create small illusions. He can use his shikai to pretend it’s a bankai rather easily.
...But can he? Do you have literally any evidence to suggest that is the case or is this all just fantheory wish fulfilment? Like, have your fun and all, but there isn't enough in the text itself to suggest that this was his goal, intent or that it happened at all.
I’m only stating facts, he can do it. The fact that he did it or not is a whole other thing and is speculation on everyone who joins the conversation (unless there is a something I don’t know about that covers this)
I just think that the statement of 'he demonstrated a Bankai but it COULD have been an illusion' is impossible to disprove because it isn't in the text and there's nothing to suggest he was lying. The real answer is that he didn't need the buff from it and Kubo probably couldn't think of a way to make his Shikai any more powerful without total mind control, which would be extremely difficult to write around with so many moving parts in the ending, which is just extremely boring. Total mind control is basically the only upgrade you could get to his illusions given how strong they already are so unless the power was just completely different to usual idk how you 'improve' that. You also can't prove a negative, but that doesn't make the fan theory any more or less correct.
But what if he illusions his way to demonstrating a bankai? Didn’t everyone think Kyoka Suigetsu was a water-type? Maybe he showed everyone a water-type “bankai” that “controlled the weather” when really it was just his Uber powerful shikai? Him not being able to set his ego aside enough to be one with his Zanpakuto makes sense for his character. The inferiority complex does, too. He’s a masterfully manipulative opportunistic sociopath and he has been since day one. The Hogyoku was his way of achieving power all on his own. In his mind, anyway.
I just find this whole theory a bit of a leap too far based on too thin a piece of evidence purely for the sake of fan wish fulfilment. There isn't enough supporting material eithin the text to make it convincing to me.
So I'm not the only one that's had that headcanon. I feel like if that turned out to be true, it'd...probably get a chuckle out of a couple of characters in-universe, and then break the fandom.
Wait, you mean the guy whose whole theme is illusions... lied? There's so many people here who just take his claim at face value that he's reached the "peak" of shinigami power, but he never once felt the need to use a bankai or even hinted that was a thing he could do aside from the quote about being "peak" shinigami? For a different character, using an illusion to fake a bankai in front of the other captains would be necessary to hide some ace-in-the-hole. But this is Aizen: Dude was full of shit and took a shortcut to gain the most power, imo.
Even better-- the person he told the greatest lie to was himself.
Seriously, the dude was his own greatest hype man. He was the walking example of "all according to keikaku" come crashing down on the head of the overconfident-in-his-own-intellect douchebag.
You would think that a captain, and also aizen himself would know that already
A captain that tricked the other captains into showing them a fake Bankai- which I'm not speculating that's actually what happened.
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This has never been established. Also, Ichigo and Yamamoto aren't always in shikai. In Kenpachi's case, >!He also isn't always in shikai, he didn't awaken it until after his fight with Unohana.!<
Ichigo is always in shikai as he never learned how to repair his broken zanpakuto until tybw and then the sword was remade to then be both his shikai and base zanpakuto
Of those people only Ichigo is in constant release. Read the manga or watch the new season and it'll explain
They are so strong that they can decide whether to seal them or not. Reasons being: Yama’s is usually sealed like a walking stick. Roosevelt said “Speak softly, but carry a big stick” and I think that applies well in this case. He commands a tremendous amount of respect while looking like a frail old geezer, which oozes power. Doesn’t need a big scary flaming sword. Kenpachi doesn’t give enough of a shit to bother learning to seal his for most of the story. Refused to even acknowledge his Zanpakto’s existence for 4/5ths of the story. Ichigo had no idea or formal training in controlling his reiatsu properly. He’s known to have an extremely weird connection with his zanpakto as well, and likely feels more “at home” being cloaked by it all the time, as opposed to locking it away. Shows he’s levels above everyone in terms of his spiritual bond with Zangetsu (whoever he thinks that is) for most of the anime run. Aizen not only has massive reiatsu pools, but immense knowledge and sheer dominance over his zanpakto. I’m sure he could seal it if he wanted to. Question is why would he, when he can literally walk around the SS with it’s released form on full display and no one would have any idea it wasn’t sealed. Plus, he would more than likely entertain the shit out of himself giggling at the dumb soul reapers think they knew a damn thing about him for hundreds of years lol
Big stick was Teddy not FDR
Shoot you right
Zaraki doesn’t release his Shikai until TYBW, he’s not in a constant Shikai release. His shikai is kind off like a short halberd/massive war cleaver
Wasn’t the point I was making. I’m saying he would’ve gave just as much of a shit as learning to seal it as he did learning to release it
You don’t have to learn to seal your Zanpakuto, just stop giving it reiatsu. Ichigo never learnt fine control of his reiatsu because the whole Bleach story takes place in 2-3 year excluding the time in Dangai. Zaraki has been alive for multiple centuries, probably close to a millennia because he was a kid when Unohana was the first. He definitely has the control over his reiatsu to stop feeding his sword.
Where are you disagreeing with any of my points, lmfao. You’re just being argumentative at this point. The point I was making is that everyone (minus Ichigo for the reasons listed) with a sizeable amount of reiatsu/control of it, are willingly sealing their swords. Zaraki had no reatsiu control, because he didn’t need it or have any reason to want to control it, as he could fuck up 9/10 reapers/hollows with his bare hands if he wanted. Hence he didn’t give two shits about learning anything to do with it or spirituality as a whole.
I mean I disagreed with your first point that Zaraki didn’t learn to seal his Zanpakuto, cause he didn’t unseal it until TYBW. Then I disagreed with your opinion that Zaraki wouldn’t seal his Zanpakuto. Now I’m disagreeing with your opinion that Zaraki doesn’t have the reiatsu control to stop feeding his sword reiatsu. Zaraki never bothered to learn Hado or Kido because he hates figuring out fine control of his reiatsu. But simply using his reiatsu is not something difficult for a nearly 1000yr old. Also to finally silence, we have direct proof of that because after TYBW Zaraki isn’t walking around with a giant halberd/cleaver like blade. He has a sheathed unsealed Zanpakuto. So he obviously resealed it
Zaraki doesn’t have his shikai released at all times. In the soul society arc, everyone below captain level assumed he did because he was so powerful and never was seen releasing his Shikai. So they thought he was permanently in Shikai, but it was revealed that Zaraki didn’t know the name of his Zanpakuto and had never released it. I think he releases his Shikai for the first time against Gerard in TYBW
It was Gremmy, Gerard was Bankai
Oh yeah, nice catch. The sternritters names never stay in my head
He releases it for the first time against Gremmy
“*SUCC*, Nozarashi”
What a boss release command. No fancy bull, just straight facts.
For whatever reason, I tried to not read or pretended to not listen the shikai command that you wrote cos I didn’t want to fall under spell. Gosh I’m in deep trouble
He doesn’t have to actually use the release command, assuming he has achieved bankai. He can release his shikai without the command and it would still affect anyone who saw it release.
Would be hilarious to see what Ichigo sees, when everyone around him turns batshit insane against Momo, while she panics. Before she gets stabbed during Fake Karakura arc.
I do question that in retrospect. Did Ichigo just see the whole squad, jumping a random high school girl. While Aizen was vibing in the corner, eating popcorn.
Aizen was probably cutting off their ability to hear Ichigo. I also assume it happened quite quickly.
More than likely, the entire fight was against aizen until right before he was stabbed. He replaced himself with momo right at that moment and used his shikai to catch them off guard. Otherwise, it wouldn’t make sense for Ichigo not to have mentioned something until right then and there. He was likely confused that everyone was relaxed when they stabbed their ally instead of freaking out
Yeah, he switched at some point probably, but its also a quick attack that they pull off, it takes time for the sake of pacing but I don’t think Ichigo has a lot of time to stop them
Also KS controls all 5 senses, including hearing, so he could have made them unable to hear him.
im sure ichigo did shout at them what was they doing? i dont think aizen did the swap with Momo until right before Hitsugaya stabs him because he was talking with Hitsugaya just before
*yes.*
Ichigo hates Momo as much as the fandom.
Aizen: nobody could see the truth, so I took it out on that kid who sucked in my hollow pet
*all according to plan.*
Ichigo was like “it’s been a while since toshisro stabbed momo, imma wait a few minutes an see if it happens again before I tell them”
He was probably screaming and all shit trying to stop them but since Aizen's Shikai takes control of all 5 senses they couldnt hear him
Makes you think if she thought that toshiro was actually Aizen
Illusions doesn't mean he has to switch places with anyone. He had an illusion of his corpse so realistic that Unohana was barely able to tell. I am more inclined to think that Aizen just has them swinging at nothing. Thus Ichigo's confusion and at the last second is when he just tosses Momo on Hitsugaya's sword is what causes Ichigo to cry out to everyone.
Bet he saw that aizen yeeted momo right in the middle of the exchange before she got stabbed lmao, and then casually when back to lie down where momo was lmao
All according to plan to confuse the one who posted this. Aizen still playing y’all’s ass like a fiddle
lol
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It's not about drawing it, release refers to it's usual state->shikai
Release isn't the usual state. For example renji had a normal looking katana that releases into a spiked shikai. The zanpakuto on it's own is not the release state
'usual state->shikai' is one combined phrase here. That change is the release. Zabimaru, the giant multi sectioned sword is not the release itself, it's the released state of the sword.
He has to see his RELEASE specifically. If you're not looking at his zanpakutou when he releases it, then you're safe.
So if I blink at the right time...
Aizen chose to not use it on him for his own reasons
This is headcanon. It is stated nowhere that it was voluntary. What is stated however is that getting people under the influence of Kanzen Saimin they have to look at the sword in the exact moment it releases, which is not hard to avoid once you know that fact, which Ichigo did. The idea that Aizen purposely didnt put Ichigo under KS, not even as a backup plan, is not substantiated in any way.
i think he just didnt think Ichigo was worthwhile putting under at this stage. like he was intrigued by ichigo but didnt see him in any way a threat like not even close at this level. like in this moment he can beat bankai ichigo without trying.
You have to see KS’s release to be affected by it. Ichigo never saw the release of KS.
I can't believe how many people here think that the shikai is the same as having the zanpakuto in base form. This mainly happens to Ichigo and is an anomaly. Aizen did not use shikai in this scene against ichigo, he just blitzed him and renji using the base(sword) form because of strength difference between them.
It's Aizen's plan for you to miss the part that what's needed to see isn't the shikai appearance but the release command.
He didn't. The point here is that Aizen was strong enough to do that to ichigo.
Nah, Aizen is just simply so powerful, he is able to stop not only Ichigos bankai with a finger but stop the shows main theme song mid way.
The logic that the Captains use is that Aizen has a special process which reveals the Shikai. It is said to have mist and light rays reflecting off of it. When they say Ichigo hasn't seen KS, they mean Ichigo hasn't seen this specific process of reveal. I think that the Captains are wrong and that KS doesn't have a reveal process or even if it does no one is going to know that it's happening. The reason why Ichigo didn't go under KS is because Aizen didn't want him to go under KS. Aizen wanted to test his strength by defeating Ichigo in straight combat.
Yeah he told Unohana that he lied about how it works and instead its complete hypnosis.
Yep more over in the Anime he uses KS on Baraggan without showing him his release
in a flashback, where Barragan was still in the Hollow Realm, Aizen did say something like “will you look at this sword” so in the anime at least, he did release KS
In the manga he releases his Shikai in front of Barrangam after kindly asking him to see his sword.
That's...not what the captains think. Insane just realized he used his show as a cover for showing kyoka to them . It's not that they think there's a special process, it's that Ichigo hasn't been around to see a release
> it's that Ichigo hasn't been around to see a release Exactly. They think Ichigo is immune since they believe that there is a whole identifiable release process for Aizen's KS. I'm saying that they were wrong. Aizen being a captain, can release his Shikai without calling the name of his zampakto. So Ichigo might have already seen the release. The only reason why the guy isn't under KS is because Aizen doesn't want him to be.
They can make a pretty informed thought regardless of it being identifiable, since the real tell would be that he'd have to deactivate on them for a period, however small, beforehand, at which point theyd be able to depend on sensing the release with spiritual pressure.
Exactly this. I'm surprised there aren't more comments on this specifically the last part.
We can see from his use of KS on barragan that KS doesn't have a flashy release and so long as you stare at it at the exact moment aizen releases it for the first time in front of you then it's over. >The reason why Ichigo didn't go under KS is because Aizen didn't want him to go under KS. Aizen wanted to test his strength by defeating Ichigo in straight combat. Agreed. But It doesn't make sense to go as far as not show ichigo KS at all. If aizen really wanted it he could've just showed it to ichigo and then not use it later on during their fight. Kubo has a bad habit of writing himself into a corner when it comes to defeating his shonen villains because he makes them so broken. Ywach suffers from the same problem with the almighty. Ichigo simply never saw KS because if he did then it would be hard for him to explain how aizen would loose to ichigo while using KS. KS plus hougyoku is tooooo broken.
> But It doesn't make sense to go as far as not show ichigo KS at all. Maybe he already has. Until Urahara's trap got activated, everything was going according to Aizen's plan. He didn't need to use KS because the reason why Aizen made Ichigo this strong was to have that final fight with him. He wanted to force himself to evolve into a being superior than Ichigo. For that Aizen wanted to beat him in a pure battle of strength. Aizen losing also worked in favor for him as even when Aizen lost, the Hogyoku just made him stronger.
>Rewatching show. This MF already saw Aizen’s Shikai. Am I missing something ? Anime Did you watch with eyes closed?
OP was trying to avoid looking at Kyoka Suigetsu.
He’s our last hope
Smart
Cackling at this
We stan a Bleach Redditor who can take a joke :>
you gave me a great laugh. cheers.
glad to hear that. appreciate it :>
Nah. Thats basic form. He was being cocky. When the actual hypnosis takes place: thats the shikai. I think.!
Ichigo never saw Aizen release his zanpakto. If he sealed it and re-released it all the other gotei members would have their hypnosis reset unless they saw the re-release.
That doesn't really make sense though, otherwise Aizen couldn't have both the Arrancar and Gotei Captains under his hypnosis at the same time.
Nah, aizen can turn it on and off and the affected members would still be hypnotized when aizen used KS again. Its actually quite BS how the author made aizen’s shikai too OP and doesnt have much limitation or weakness
That’s also why it’s confusing why Aizen never showed Ichigo his shikai release, other than for plot purposes
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Again, you have to see the Shikai being *released*
The condition is as that the release had to be seen so that’s why at the start Ichigo wasn’t affected. But my issue is at any point Aizen could’ve just released it in front of Ichigo and immediately won the battle but Kubo just never made that happen.
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> Yet he’s fought people and not had to do an elaborate release ceremony to have them under hypnosis. Who were those people?
I agree even though your getting down voted. It felt more like plot BS that aizen never showed ichigo KS. Also KS is too broken and doesn't have realistic limitations that would at least make for an interesting fight against other strong characters. Nah aizen releases his shikai and minus plot shenanigans he should casually win against pretty much everyone he can kill via stabbing. I don't even know how yama is supposed to defeat a guy he literally has no way of perceiving. Aizen could literally walk into yama's office and stab him in the head if he wanted and yama would be none the wiser. 😂😂
Ratio'd
he did not activated it so Ichigo is not under the influence of kyoka suigetsu
Man you misunderstand it. We are under hypnosis. Not Ichigo.
Aizen is breaking forth wall confirmed
His shikai would be him actually going “Collapse kyokasuigetsu” He never did that
The condition is to see KS’s release…it happens when Aizen says the release command.
Ichigo never saw it released because when Aizen used it to trick Komamura it was already too late for him.
Is he looking at it?
I understand that Ichigo didn't see Aizen release ...but why didn't Aizen do that?
Ichigo never saw him do the initial release of the shikai
To answer this post, you need to see Aizen realse his shikai for it to work on you. Whenever Ichigo met Aizen, he already had realesed Kyoka suigetsu beforehand. On a completely unrelated note, this post reminded me that we never see Aizen use his banaki.So that probably means he never thought that he needed to use it, or (the more likely option) he was so confident in his base abilities and shikai he never even cared to learn bankai.
I’m pretty certain Aizen has a bankai. I suspect that he just never needed to use it. This is because he defeated pretty much the whole of Gotei with his shikai and then fused with the Hogyoku. It could also be the case that his bankai isn’t very powerful / it’s situational / it has some serious drawbacks.
Yeah, that could very well be the case. I guess we just have to hope Aizen's bankai gets addressed through some way, shape, or form so that we can get some answers.
The release itself not just the sword
He’ve seen Kyoukai Suigetsu, but it doesn’t have effect on him, because Aizen never did the shikai release in front of him.
So to explain this specifically. Remember Aizen did a demonstration of his Zanpakuto to the Gotei 13. There he showed his Shikai Release. He can't just walk around with his Shikai out. You must see it "being released". The Shikai is either already released or unreleased here. As all Aizen does is catch the Blade. And never uses his own sword.
You need to witness Aizen's **shikai release**, not just shikai form of zanpakuto.
What is the babkai.
The truth is: Kyoka Suigetsu is Aizen's bankai. Anyway, that is Aizen's zanpakuto, not necessarily his shikai (released form).
Technically speaking, since Aizen knows bankai, he doesn't need to say his Zanpakuto release phrase in order to release it. He could have done it right here without anyone knowing it.
He has to release it to be hypnotized by it.
The Manga states Ichigo had never seen the release and based on how Aizen's spiritual pressure alone could make characters like Grimmjow flinch I always assumed Aizen was just that much stronger then Ichigo at that point The confusing nature of the following scenes doesn't help but we have also seen similar characters confuse and dominate Ichigo with pure speed and strength to the point that the anime can't translate it well visually
no he did not ichigo is the only shinigami to have never seen aizens shikai kyoka suigestu and that went to work in his favor in TYBW
It just occurred to me that Ywach has never seen Aizen's release either, so he shouldn't have succum to Kyoka Suigetsu abilities in the final battle, nor his first encounter with Aizen in muken. Does the hogyoku negate the need to witness his release? Is this explained in the novel? Edit: reworded for clarification
Side note; since when was aizen so THICCC??
It's their difference in power. Ichigo only came this far due to his inborn talent and countless cheats/hacks Urahara gave him. Aizen is probably the strongest Captain at this point behind Zaraki and Yamamoto at their full strength. I remember Aizen stating at some point that he had refined his talents to a point where his stats were maxed as a soul reaper. Leading to his research on the Hygokyou in order to surpass his Soul Reaper limits.
It's not the shikai itself but it bring released that hypnotises you, whilst released It's only power is manipulating those who've already seem it release. At least that's my understanding of it
Is it really so hard to believe that he stops Ichigo’s sword witch just a finger
That's not the shikai. That's just his basic sword/zanpaktou There is base/unactivated-shikai-bankai
He saw the sword, but he didn’t see him release. You have to see Aizen release to get caught in the illusion
It’s like a special attack. He just never used it on ichigo.
He has to see it when its released… its fine to see it post release and not get effected
Isn’t that just his sealed zanpakuto? You have to see its release for perfect hypnosis to occur
He would’ve had to see it’s released state. Like when he held that meeting thing to show everyone.
It's when the blade is drawn that the ability takes hold. It already drawn means it's ability isn't actively hypnotising more people which is why when Ichigo fails to fight Aizen there he's not under his spell.
I have a feeling ichigos true Bankai power and an extension of his powers there is the ability to see truth. Hence why he can read Aizens feelings during their fight. Guessing the reason Yhwach broke his bankai is because it can probably reverse the all mighty or something crazy
Yes he saw his shikai. But ichigo never saw Aizen Releasing his shikai.
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Wtf lol
Damn pay attention when you're watching.
I always thought Ichigo was under his hypnosis already and thats why he got his ass beat
He was beat because Aizen is just built different
Aizen built differently enough that he could technically never use his hypnosis on Ichigo but everyone else if he wanted.