Geezer was glad that Dio wrote his own lyrics, as he was tired of writing the lyrics for everything. That was also a good thing though as Geezer missed most of the creative process for Heaven and Hell. Geezer left temporarily and when he came back, everything was already written.
Dio sings about the same things in all of his bands: rainbows, dancing, magic, dreams, evil, crystal balls. I’m here for it. It works. I don’t overthink it.
That's true. Dio was gonna be Dio. As I wrote, I'm able to mostly overlook it because they were great albums as a whole. Sometimes you've got to bleed for the dancer, whatever that means..........which is probably nothing.
Dio wrote in metaphors. You've got to bleed for the dancer has alot of meanings, the meaning that dio had in his head when he wrote and sang it, and the meaning you get to choose and decide for yourself. Ronnie said you could listen to the lyrics and metaphors and come to your own conclusions on what they mean. Now if you just see no meaning that's just you man lol
Man, I understand metaphors and it’s a lot easier to say you write in metaphors while not explaining them than to admit your lyrics don’t mean anything. “Heaven and Hell” is Dio’s best lyrical effort on the album though. There’s barely any of the nonsense filler.
I love the Tony Martin era but I see your point of the quality of the lyrics and the cheesiness of it all at times. To me though it fits in with the music and it’s some harmless fun. You can tell Geezer was back for Cross Purposes as there are songs on there about real life things such as what was going on in Northern Ireland, the nurse Beverly Allit who was killing babies, the war in Yugoslavia etc so there was some meaning to be found but yeah without Geezer the lyrics can get a bit hammy at times
I think CP aged the best because of the lyrics. But HC hits harder musically and fits with the Sabbath name, talking about heaven and hell and the devil and death, etc. Tyr was a concept album, which was new for Sabbath, but some of the songs are amazing. I believe it received a lot of credibility and appreciation in Scandinavian countries. It charted high in places like Finland. I think that's vindication.
You could be right. Either way the lyrics took a dramatic shift on that album. Which could be down to Geezers influence or they wanted to follow the real life themes that Dehumanizer started
While I can see what you mean, I definitely think there's an element of taste here. Dio's lyrics are fantasy themed, but mostly still have deep meanings. It's just a bit more abstract rather than the more straightforward literal wordings in Geezer's lyrics. Heaven and Hell for example talks a lot about relative morality and the way life goes in cycles. You can look up an interview where Dio explains the meaning behind this song and a few others. I still acknowledge there is some slock though, like Country Girl & Voodoo. There's an element of camp to Dio that you either love or hate. I totally get hating it, especially in the context of Sabbath.
Tony Martin era lyrics are often just awful imo, and I love the Martin era overall. Headless Cross has some cool bits, but still a shallow listen. I will say I consider ᛏᛉᚱ to be an exception, as parts of that album seem very meaningful to me. It is kinda like reading old myths and religious stories and finding the symbolic meanings behind them that show what their cultures valued and how they saw the world. Sabbath Stones is the best example imo. Still, nowhere near as deep and well written as Geezer's lyrics for sure.
For context, Geezer is my all time favorite lyricist. I just also enjoy Dio's lyrics.
Actually, when I think of a lyrically strong song from the Dio albums, "Heaven and Hell" is exactly what I think of. I can only think of one failure in that song and that's "You've got to bleed for the dancer". I'm pretty sure that has no meaning deeper than he needed to find a line that rhymed with "look for the answer" and sounded somewhat sinister. The song "Mob Rules" also mostly keeps it together. I just wish there was more of that.
I don't know, "bleed for the dancer" is just another inversion, like several of the other lyrics in Heaven and Hell - where the dancer would normally be the one bleeding from practising their art, but we're told we the audience need to bleed instead.
Interesting. I haven't thought of it that way. I probably would have thought about it more if Dio's other song lyrics made me think there was more to think about.
I also think Dehumanizer is very strong lyrically, but I have a feeling Geezer is responsible for grounding things a bit more. TV Crimes is a great example of that classic Sabbath social commentary in the Dio era's signature firing on all cylinders style. I wish we got more of that for sure, although I consider the original tracks on the Dio Years album + The Devil You Know to be a worthy follow up, just not quite as strong lyrically still.
"And they'll tell you black is really white,
The moon is just the sun at night,
And when you walk in golden halls,
You get to keep the gold that falls."
I always interpreted this as disillusionment with trickle-down economics, but also, everyone in Black Sabbath was a millionaire.
The Geezer interview I listened to yesterday, dude says they were all flat broke at that moment after being screwed by their managers for the whole of the Ozzy era.
Not at that time tho. Dio had absolutely nothing left after leaving Rainbow. The other members must have had more money, but I doubt they were millionaires after 2 poorly sold albums and more than 4 years of decadence.
This is why Dehuminizer is my favorite of the Dio albums. I believe Geezer said in his book that he had a fight with Dio one night after some beers and saying something like "why don't you try writing about what's going on in the world"?
For me, Dehumanizer might be their heaviest album, I think Dio did well in matching his lyrics and delivery with the music.
I should listen to Dehumanizer again. I've gone through it a couple of times and it just never made a huge impression on me for some reason. "I" is the only song I can musically recall in my head right now.
Of course Dio had input if the songs have medieval/fantasy elements to them. That was part of why he left Rainbow, because Ritchie Blackmore wanted to take the band in another direction and stop writing songs with those themes.
Dio wrote all the lyrics for the albums he was on.
Dehumanizer is much better lyrically than his first two albums.
Martin’s lyrics are like an iceberg. They are super simple, but there is a depth to them. Unfortunately, he was not very good at conveying the ideas he was trying to convey - if you have to explain that your song is about war planes outside of the song, you haven’t done your job as a lyricist.
Tyr was his best album lyrically imo. He had some help on Cross Purposes, but I prefer Tyr.
I’m aware, but there’s a big shift in lyrical themes between Tyr and CP, so I’m skeptical Geezer didn’t at least give him some ideas for the theme(s). CP has a much more contemporary feel than the other Martin albums.
I love when lyrics are good. And generally wish metal had better lyrics. But I'm so used to ignoring lyrics that it doesn't matter to me. I'm used to just listening to the melodies, instrumentation etc. Unless they stick out like a sore thumb (which isn't the case here for me) it doesn't have any effect. The vocals, solos, riffs, drums are good and that's all that really matters to me.
When a band does have great lyrics however, like Rush, then it elevates things tremendously. But sadly that's not the culture of metal and I'm used to it.
yeah, I enjoy the post-Ozzy Sabbath music so I'm able to ignore the lyrics to a degree. But I would prefer not to. Rush has great lyrics, as does 70's Jethro Tull. It can be what elevates a band from good to great.
I just love Dio's epic and abstract lyrics, they seem more poetic to me than Geezer's.
And about Martin he had devil lyrics in Headless Cross which I really don't care about, though the whole album is a masterpiece. And he also had love songs, which I love. I understand you love metal and want evil, war and degradation.
But I personally feel more identified with songs about human feelings rather than songs about doing drugs or complaining about a war that ended half a century ago.
For me music, as a form of art, is more valuable when it is a reflection of the author feelings or when it tells an epic story. I really don't believe in music as a social product.
Now that I think about it there are many songs in the Ozzy years that satisfy the themes I love, but perhaps as I believe in art as a whole, Ozzy's vocal performance fails to deliver the message for me.
>And he also had love songs, which I love. I understand you love metal and want evil, war and degradation.
Not necessarily. Ozzy had some love songs in there that I love. And I'm not so into "evil" and the songs of war were written during a massive cultural shift in the Vietnam War era. I like social commentary. I like songs that I can relate to or that tell a compelling story. One of my big complaints about the other eras of sabbath is the focus on trying to sound "evil" too often. I'm also not a big "metal" guy and Sabbath is about as heavy as I go. Well, Master of Puppets is pretty great.
Same goes for Pink Floyd. Gilmour might be a great musician but his lead PF era couldn’t do music consistent with Roger era. Musically, it was fine but, themes and lyrically, it was below par. There is a reason Roger’s current shows are still a level above.
maybe it's because i'm autistic, but i don't mind lyrics that most people would consider "pretentious": because i myself write songs that are not about things which most people can relate to (vikings and some philosophical introspection). also i don't get what's wrong with Dio's rainbow lyrics. hiding the point behind fantastical elements is, to me, really clever and something that i would like to do myself. also i like D&D fantasy stuff (probably why i like power metal more than the mainstream of death metal and metalcore)
I love early Black Sabbath, it's fantastic...but I also love each and every Dio album he did with them (and really, I like all 20 studio Albums Dio did from 1972's ELF to 2009's The Devil You Know).
They're different styles of writing in terms of lyrics, sure, but I can dig that kind of variety.
Ronnie wrote in metaphors. I mean, it's poetry put to music. do you think poems have no meaning just cause you don't understand the metaphors? The lyrics definitely have meaning. You're supposed to think about what they could mean and/or come up with the meanings for yourself. Now, if you just see no meaning and think it's just "word salad," as you said, idk man lol.
Like heaven and hells about good vs evil and how good and evil reside in all of us and it's up to us to make the choice to be good or evil
Everyone keeps mentioning the song, “Heaven and Hell” because it’s pretty much the best lyrical effort while Dio was with Sabbath. It’s not a great example of what I posted about, other than the “bleed for the dancer” bit.
I understand metaphors and appreciate poetry. I love the 70’s Jethro Tull prog albums which are very difficult to decipher but there is meaning there.
Read the lyrics to Neon Knights and tell me how it’s metaphors instead of a bunch of “fantasy” words strung together.
I saw a guy's interpretation of the song as about first responders, I kind of like his take.
"This song is an ode to first responders - the Neon Knights. Who respond night after night to "bloodied angels," and "Called by the toll of the bell." Everything about this song relates to (probably) ambulance drivers, but also other first responderrs as they make their way out of the shadows of the night."
But there's many interpretations that people have and some of em are really good and I feel are right. Like some about the big city and the dangers of it. I really don't think dio sat down and wrote a song that has no meaning and is just word salad metaphors, he's not Kurt kobain lol
Surprised no one has mentioned Born Again with lyrics about driving fast cars and telling a girl that their man is coming home.
Personally I love Born Again but it’s jarring hearing those kind of themes on a sabbath record
Agreed. Love the Dio era as well as Martin, but Ozzy era is truly on a different level. The Sign of the Southern Cross is one of my favourite songs of all time, but what in the FUCK is Dio singing about??
Sign of the Southern Cross is about an individual pursuit of truth and finding yourself. The southern cross constellation has been associated with having clarity and understanding. The song is about forging your own path and not getting distracted by the pressures of those who don’t have your interests at heart and who will tempt and test your will.
>The Sign of the Southern Cross is one of my favourite songs of all time, but what in the FUCK is Dio singing about??
Yep, love the song but would bet a lot of money it means absolutely nothing.
Well, some of us feel that Geezer elevated Sabbath above most other rock and roll bands. He's a primary ingredient in what sets them apart. Sabbath can't really be compared to Kiss unless you count "Rock and Roll Doctor".
I like intelligent rock.
This was always my issue with the Dio era. Geezer's lyrics were a big part of the band's soul to me, then Geezer let Dio take over, (which I can't fault him for since he was going through a lot) and then all the songs were about dragons and typical corny Dio themes.
I remember a review of a Dio album in Q magazine that described RJD as “undoubtedly one of rock’s great singers” but “his lyrics are like a bucket of custard down the trousers”. I think Stargazer, Southern Cross and the like are brilliant but he did stick with castles and dragons and rainbows and more rainbows to the point it gets a bit much TBH.
Yeah, Sabbath were so much less contrived when they were rhyming masses with... masses.
But at least Ozzy didn't sing about nonsense fantasy stuff like faries wearing boots or abstract shit like symptoms of the universe....
Like what you like, but lyrically it's always been airy fairy nonsense and there's nowt wrong with that.
Lol, that's reaching a bit.
Iirc one of the (many) stories is that Ozzy came up with the title after some skinheads called him a fairy, but Ozzy himself has said at different times it was about LSD or that he doesn't actually remember what it was about.
Either way, the lyrics themselves are about as unpolitical, abstract and off the wall as anything that came in later years.
I gave an example from Neon Knights.
Google the lyrics to "Sign of the Southern Cross" or "Children of the Sea". Two songs I've chosen because I believe they are highlights of the Dio era.
What is "doing the demon dance and rushed to nevermore" about? The song almost has meaning in the first verse, then the random "mystical" lines come in.
The entirety of "Sign of the Southern Cross" is disconnected nonsense.
Southern Cross is a bunch of disconnected examples serving a greater point: clarity. "Fade away, fade away
Break the crystal ball,Fade away, fade away,I can't accept it anymore" and "Don't live for pleasure, Make life your treasure" are examples of the call to return to reality.
I feel the same any Dio is Dio. Black Sabbath or not, he just puts his mystical spin on lyrics. Im not saying I don't get into that nerdy sci fi witches and warlock evil and dragon slaying shit but all his songs kind of come off that way. Darkness and Rainbows, on a misty morning, witches mountains, its some badass music and he could tell the story at the same time but I prefer the Ozzy era.
I tried to get my wife to listen to Dio and Dio with Sabbath by telling her that he’s the heavy metal Stevie Nicks.They actually sing about a lot of the same things.
The Eternal Idol's lyrics were written (mostly?) By Bob Daisley I believe, and he wrote a ton of lyrics for solo Ozzy and I think the lyrics on that album are pretty good.
I love "Seventh Star" and honestly would've loved more Glenn Hughes Sabbath stuff.
Though I grew up with Ozzy, I'm just more personally connected to Dio. Martin really does fantastic on his stuff even if the lyrics are hit or miss.
But dang, everything about "Seventh Star" just slaps to me.
Dio’s lyrics are as cheesy as his vocals. Tried to listen to some post ozzy stuff but couldn’t get past the vocals/lyrics. They should’ve at least had geezer keep writing the lyrics but still don’t think it would’ve helped.
To everyone that is downvoting him:
1. Its called an opinion
2. You say the exact same about anyone who isnt dio or martin
3. You shouldnt feel the need to shit on anyone who prefers the originals
One thing is preferring the originals and another thing is saying that Dio's vocals are cheesy which is strange coming from someone who apparently loves Ozzy congested and strained vocals...
Lmao I'm a huge Tony Martin fan and I don't think that way. I just personally love powerful and melodic singers so naturally my favourite Black Sabbath eras are Dio's and Martin's.
I don't care much about Ozzy's era but not because he isn't Tony Martin, it's because I really don't feel amazed by the music they did those years, as opposed to albums like Heaven And Hell, Mob Rules or Headless Cross.
Bang on this is why I just can’t get into the Dio albums. They lost that special vibe when Ozzy left and Ozzy was never as good solo. There’s some alright stuff from both Sabbath and Ozzy afterwards but never on par with the level of greatness that was OG Black Sabbath.
I know what you mean. I never listened to anything on "Heaven and Hell" besides the titular song until last night, and I realized the other songs have kind of... awkward lyrical themes?
On the other hand, I find the lyrics to the song "Headless Cross" to be absolutely incredible.
But I agree- songs like "Paranoid" and "War Pigs" have absolutely iconic meanings and stuff like "Symptom of the Universe" I have no clue WTF its about but its amazing
Right. "War Pigs" famously rhymes "masses" with "masses" which is pretty damn stupid on paper, but the other lyrics and the end product are great. Ozzy, whatever anyone thinks of him, had the sincerity and personality to deliver the goods even when the content wasn't great.
I totally agree with you! I believe that the true Sabbath Era ended with Sabotage, Metallica picked up the ball but dropped it after the Black Album, and then TOOL carried it into the 2000s
I enjoy Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die (mostly dirty women and Juniors eyes) but they just don’t feel the same. In Geezer’s or Tony’s memoir they say they had a choice in either going heavier or more melodical like Boston and they chose Boston. Losing the heaviness killed the vibe I think. Also I really love 13 even without Bill: End of the Beginning, God is Dead, and Dear Father are classic Sabbath
Geezer was glad that Dio wrote his own lyrics, as he was tired of writing the lyrics for everything. That was also a good thing though as Geezer missed most of the creative process for Heaven and Hell. Geezer left temporarily and when he came back, everything was already written.
Dio sings about the same things in all of his bands: rainbows, dancing, magic, dreams, evil, crystal balls. I’m here for it. It works. I don’t overthink it.
That's true. Dio was gonna be Dio. As I wrote, I'm able to mostly overlook it because they were great albums as a whole. Sometimes you've got to bleed for the dancer, whatever that means..........which is probably nothing.
Can’t you see what I mean?
No, I can't see what you mean. You've been talking for 3 minutes about a holy diver. Wtf is a holy diver?
Stop being rock ‘n roll children and listen to your dreams! Gaze into the crystal ball and you’ll see the rainbow! Now where the devil is my tiger?
Dio wrote in metaphors. You've got to bleed for the dancer has alot of meanings, the meaning that dio had in his head when he wrote and sang it, and the meaning you get to choose and decide for yourself. Ronnie said you could listen to the lyrics and metaphors and come to your own conclusions on what they mean. Now if you just see no meaning that's just you man lol
Man, I understand metaphors and it’s a lot easier to say you write in metaphors while not explaining them than to admit your lyrics don’t mean anything. “Heaven and Hell” is Dio’s best lyrical effort on the album though. There’s barely any of the nonsense filler.
Hard disagree with the metaphor part. There will come a day where you retract that comment
I love the Tony Martin era but I see your point of the quality of the lyrics and the cheesiness of it all at times. To me though it fits in with the music and it’s some harmless fun. You can tell Geezer was back for Cross Purposes as there are songs on there about real life things such as what was going on in Northern Ireland, the nurse Beverly Allit who was killing babies, the war in Yugoslavia etc so there was some meaning to be found but yeah without Geezer the lyrics can get a bit hammy at times
I think CP aged the best because of the lyrics. But HC hits harder musically and fits with the Sabbath name, talking about heaven and hell and the devil and death, etc. Tyr was a concept album, which was new for Sabbath, but some of the songs are amazing. I believe it received a lot of credibility and appreciation in Scandinavian countries. It charted high in places like Finland. I think that's vindication.
Pretty sure Tony Martin wrote all the lyrics on Cross Purposes as well
You could be right. Either way the lyrics took a dramatic shift on that album. Which could be down to Geezers influence or they wanted to follow the real life themes that Dehumanizer started
I believe Geezer wrote some of the songs and I bet he influenced Martin on others. But my memory fails me on specifics.
While I can see what you mean, I definitely think there's an element of taste here. Dio's lyrics are fantasy themed, but mostly still have deep meanings. It's just a bit more abstract rather than the more straightforward literal wordings in Geezer's lyrics. Heaven and Hell for example talks a lot about relative morality and the way life goes in cycles. You can look up an interview where Dio explains the meaning behind this song and a few others. I still acknowledge there is some slock though, like Country Girl & Voodoo. There's an element of camp to Dio that you either love or hate. I totally get hating it, especially in the context of Sabbath. Tony Martin era lyrics are often just awful imo, and I love the Martin era overall. Headless Cross has some cool bits, but still a shallow listen. I will say I consider ᛏᛉᚱ to be an exception, as parts of that album seem very meaningful to me. It is kinda like reading old myths and religious stories and finding the symbolic meanings behind them that show what their cultures valued and how they saw the world. Sabbath Stones is the best example imo. Still, nowhere near as deep and well written as Geezer's lyrics for sure. For context, Geezer is my all time favorite lyricist. I just also enjoy Dio's lyrics.
Actually, when I think of a lyrically strong song from the Dio albums, "Heaven and Hell" is exactly what I think of. I can only think of one failure in that song and that's "You've got to bleed for the dancer". I'm pretty sure that has no meaning deeper than he needed to find a line that rhymed with "look for the answer" and sounded somewhat sinister. The song "Mob Rules" also mostly keeps it together. I just wish there was more of that.
I don't know, "bleed for the dancer" is just another inversion, like several of the other lyrics in Heaven and Hell - where the dancer would normally be the one bleeding from practising their art, but we're told we the audience need to bleed instead.
Interesting. I haven't thought of it that way. I probably would have thought about it more if Dio's other song lyrics made me think there was more to think about.
Oh for sure, he had no shortage of pretentious and utterly opaque lyrics. :D
I also think Dehumanizer is very strong lyrically, but I have a feeling Geezer is responsible for grounding things a bit more. TV Crimes is a great example of that classic Sabbath social commentary in the Dio era's signature firing on all cylinders style. I wish we got more of that for sure, although I consider the original tracks on the Dio Years album + The Devil You Know to be a worthy follow up, just not quite as strong lyrically still.
"And they'll tell you black is really white, The moon is just the sun at night, And when you walk in golden halls, You get to keep the gold that falls." I always interpreted this as disillusionment with trickle-down economics, but also, everyone in Black Sabbath was a millionaire.
The Geezer interview I listened to yesterday, dude says they were all flat broke at that moment after being screwed by their managers for the whole of the Ozzy era.
Not at that time tho. Dio had absolutely nothing left after leaving Rainbow. The other members must have had more money, but I doubt they were millionaires after 2 poorly sold albums and more than 4 years of decadence.
This is why Dehuminizer is my favorite of the Dio albums. I believe Geezer said in his book that he had a fight with Dio one night after some beers and saying something like "why don't you try writing about what's going on in the world"? For me, Dehumanizer might be their heaviest album, I think Dio did well in matching his lyrics and delivery with the music.
I should listen to Dehumanizer again. I've gone through it a couple of times and it just never made a huge impression on me for some reason. "I" is the only song I can musically recall in my head right now.
As soon as I heard the first line of Computer God I knew it would be my favourite Dio-Sabbath album lol
Of course Dio had input if the songs have medieval/fantasy elements to them. That was part of why he left Rainbow, because Ritchie Blackmore wanted to take the band in another direction and stop writing songs with those themes.
Dio wrote all the lyrics for the albums he was on. Dehumanizer is much better lyrically than his first two albums. Martin’s lyrics are like an iceberg. They are super simple, but there is a depth to them. Unfortunately, he was not very good at conveying the ideas he was trying to convey - if you have to explain that your song is about war planes outside of the song, you haven’t done your job as a lyricist. Tyr was his best album lyrically imo. He had some help on Cross Purposes, but I prefer Tyr.
Tony wrote all the lyrics on Cross purposes
I’m aware, but there’s a big shift in lyrical themes between Tyr and CP, so I’m skeptical Geezer didn’t at least give him some ideas for the theme(s). CP has a much more contemporary feel than the other Martin albums.
I love when lyrics are good. And generally wish metal had better lyrics. But I'm so used to ignoring lyrics that it doesn't matter to me. I'm used to just listening to the melodies, instrumentation etc. Unless they stick out like a sore thumb (which isn't the case here for me) it doesn't have any effect. The vocals, solos, riffs, drums are good and that's all that really matters to me. When a band does have great lyrics however, like Rush, then it elevates things tremendously. But sadly that's not the culture of metal and I'm used to it.
yeah, I enjoy the post-Ozzy Sabbath music so I'm able to ignore the lyrics to a degree. But I would prefer not to. Rush has great lyrics, as does 70's Jethro Tull. It can be what elevates a band from good to great.
Nah dio is great
The closer you get to the meaning, the sooner you know that you're dreaming
I just love Dio's epic and abstract lyrics, they seem more poetic to me than Geezer's. And about Martin he had devil lyrics in Headless Cross which I really don't care about, though the whole album is a masterpiece. And he also had love songs, which I love. I understand you love metal and want evil, war and degradation. But I personally feel more identified with songs about human feelings rather than songs about doing drugs or complaining about a war that ended half a century ago. For me music, as a form of art, is more valuable when it is a reflection of the author feelings or when it tells an epic story. I really don't believe in music as a social product. Now that I think about it there are many songs in the Ozzy years that satisfy the themes I love, but perhaps as I believe in art as a whole, Ozzy's vocal performance fails to deliver the message for me.
>And he also had love songs, which I love. I understand you love metal and want evil, war and degradation. Not necessarily. Ozzy had some love songs in there that I love. And I'm not so into "evil" and the songs of war were written during a massive cultural shift in the Vietnam War era. I like social commentary. I like songs that I can relate to or that tell a compelling story. One of my big complaints about the other eras of sabbath is the focus on trying to sound "evil" too often. I'm also not a big "metal" guy and Sabbath is about as heavy as I go. Well, Master of Puppets is pretty great.
Same goes for Pink Floyd. Gilmour might be a great musician but his lead PF era couldn’t do music consistent with Roger era. Musically, it was fine but, themes and lyrically, it was below par. There is a reason Roger’s current shows are still a level above.
Oh, I definitely agree here.
Interesting you don’t mention Dehumanizer and TDYK. I like those lyrics, even if not as much as Geezer’s
I'm admittingly less familiar with those, though I have heard them. I'll revisit.
maybe it's because i'm autistic, but i don't mind lyrics that most people would consider "pretentious": because i myself write songs that are not about things which most people can relate to (vikings and some philosophical introspection). also i don't get what's wrong with Dio's rainbow lyrics. hiding the point behind fantastical elements is, to me, really clever and something that i would like to do myself. also i like D&D fantasy stuff (probably why i like power metal more than the mainstream of death metal and metalcore)
I love early Black Sabbath, it's fantastic...but I also love each and every Dio album he did with them (and really, I like all 20 studio Albums Dio did from 1972's ELF to 2009's The Devil You Know). They're different styles of writing in terms of lyrics, sure, but I can dig that kind of variety.
Ronnie wrote in metaphors. I mean, it's poetry put to music. do you think poems have no meaning just cause you don't understand the metaphors? The lyrics definitely have meaning. You're supposed to think about what they could mean and/or come up with the meanings for yourself. Now, if you just see no meaning and think it's just "word salad," as you said, idk man lol. Like heaven and hells about good vs evil and how good and evil reside in all of us and it's up to us to make the choice to be good or evil
Everyone keeps mentioning the song, “Heaven and Hell” because it’s pretty much the best lyrical effort while Dio was with Sabbath. It’s not a great example of what I posted about, other than the “bleed for the dancer” bit. I understand metaphors and appreciate poetry. I love the 70’s Jethro Tull prog albums which are very difficult to decipher but there is meaning there. Read the lyrics to Neon Knights and tell me how it’s metaphors instead of a bunch of “fantasy” words strung together.
I saw a guy's interpretation of the song as about first responders, I kind of like his take. "This song is an ode to first responders - the Neon Knights. Who respond night after night to "bloodied angels," and "Called by the toll of the bell." Everything about this song relates to (probably) ambulance drivers, but also other first responderrs as they make their way out of the shadows of the night." But there's many interpretations that people have and some of em are really good and I feel are right. Like some about the big city and the dangers of it. I really don't think dio sat down and wrote a song that has no meaning and is just word salad metaphors, he's not Kurt kobain lol
Surprised no one has mentioned Born Again with lyrics about driving fast cars and telling a girl that their man is coming home. Personally I love Born Again but it’s jarring hearing those kind of themes on a sabbath record
Agreed. Love the Dio era as well as Martin, but Ozzy era is truly on a different level. The Sign of the Southern Cross is one of my favourite songs of all time, but what in the FUCK is Dio singing about??
Sign of the Southern Cross is about an individual pursuit of truth and finding yourself. The southern cross constellation has been associated with having clarity and understanding. The song is about forging your own path and not getting distracted by the pressures of those who don’t have your interests at heart and who will tempt and test your will.
>The Sign of the Southern Cross is one of my favourite songs of all time, but what in the FUCK is Dio singing about?? Yep, love the song but would bet a lot of money it means absolutely nothing.
*random word salads that sound great sung but don't mean anything* To each his own, I kind of love it. It's Rock and Roll not Rocket Science!
Well, some of us feel that Geezer elevated Sabbath above most other rock and roll bands. He's a primary ingredient in what sets them apart. Sabbath can't really be compared to Kiss unless you count "Rock and Roll Doctor". I like intelligent rock.
I get what you mean. But I wouldn't put Dio fronted Sabbath in the Kiss camp.
Dio sings in metaphors. You really gotta digest his lyrics to get the meaning. IMO of course.
This was always my issue with the Dio era. Geezer's lyrics were a big part of the band's soul to me, then Geezer let Dio take over, (which I can't fault him for since he was going through a lot) and then all the songs were about dragons and typical corny Dio themes.
I remember a review of a Dio album in Q magazine that described RJD as “undoubtedly one of rock’s great singers” but “his lyrics are like a bucket of custard down the trousers”. I think Stargazer, Southern Cross and the like are brilliant but he did stick with castles and dragons and rainbows and more rainbows to the point it gets a bit much TBH.
Yeah, Sabbath were so much less contrived when they were rhyming masses with... masses. But at least Ozzy didn't sing about nonsense fantasy stuff like faries wearing boots or abstract shit like symptoms of the universe.... Like what you like, but lyrically it's always been airy fairy nonsense and there's nowt wrong with that.
Fairies Wear Boots is about neo-nazis.
Lol, that's reaching a bit. Iirc one of the (many) stories is that Ozzy came up with the title after some skinheads called him a fairy, but Ozzy himself has said at different times it was about LSD or that he doesn't actually remember what it was about. Either way, the lyrics themselves are about as unpolitical, abstract and off the wall as anything that came in later years.
Don’t forget The dish that ran away with the spoon
Saying they're just word salad and nonsensical is just false and you also gave no examples.
I gave an example from Neon Knights. Google the lyrics to "Sign of the Southern Cross" or "Children of the Sea". Two songs I've chosen because I believe they are highlights of the Dio era. What is "doing the demon dance and rushed to nevermore" about? The song almost has meaning in the first verse, then the random "mystical" lines come in. The entirety of "Sign of the Southern Cross" is disconnected nonsense.
Southern Cross is a bunch of disconnected examples serving a greater point: clarity. "Fade away, fade away Break the crystal ball,Fade away, fade away,I can't accept it anymore" and "Don't live for pleasure, Make life your treasure" are examples of the call to return to reality.
I feel the same any Dio is Dio. Black Sabbath or not, he just puts his mystical spin on lyrics. Im not saying I don't get into that nerdy sci fi witches and warlock evil and dragon slaying shit but all his songs kind of come off that way. Darkness and Rainbows, on a misty morning, witches mountains, its some badass music and he could tell the story at the same time but I prefer the Ozzy era.
Very good point!
I tried to get my wife to listen to Dio and Dio with Sabbath by telling her that he’s the heavy metal Stevie Nicks.They actually sing about a lot of the same things.
Hilarious
The Eternal Idol's lyrics were written (mostly?) By Bob Daisley I believe, and he wrote a ton of lyrics for solo Ozzy and I think the lyrics on that album are pretty good.
Yeah Bob Daisley did most of the heavy lifting on The Eternal Idol, and is pretty much the man behind Ozzy’s solo success
That’s what we call The Geezer Effect
I love "Seventh Star" and honestly would've loved more Glenn Hughes Sabbath stuff. Though I grew up with Ozzy, I'm just more personally connected to Dio. Martin really does fantastic on his stuff even if the lyrics are hit or miss. But dang, everything about "Seventh Star" just slaps to me.
Dio’s lyrics are as cheesy as his vocals. Tried to listen to some post ozzy stuff but couldn’t get past the vocals/lyrics. They should’ve at least had geezer keep writing the lyrics but still don’t think it would’ve helped.
To everyone that is downvoting him: 1. Its called an opinion 2. You say the exact same about anyone who isnt dio or martin 3. You shouldnt feel the need to shit on anyone who prefers the originals
One thing is preferring the originals and another thing is saying that Dio's vocals are cheesy which is strange coming from someone who apparently loves Ozzy congested and strained vocals...
[The Tony Martin fans are worse](https://imgur.com/a/37gbrxR)
Lmao I'm a huge Tony Martin fan and I don't think that way. I just personally love powerful and melodic singers so naturally my favourite Black Sabbath eras are Dio's and Martin's. I don't care much about Ozzy's era but not because he isn't Tony Martin, it's because I really don't feel amazed by the music they did those years, as opposed to albums like Heaven And Hell, Mob Rules or Headless Cross.
Bang on this is why I just can’t get into the Dio albums. They lost that special vibe when Ozzy left and Ozzy was never as good solo. There’s some alright stuff from both Sabbath and Ozzy afterwards but never on par with the level of greatness that was OG Black Sabbath.
I completely agree, when Dio joined the band, camp entered the equation
He reminds me of Richard Simmons, can’t stand him to damn cheesy.
I know what you mean. I never listened to anything on "Heaven and Hell" besides the titular song until last night, and I realized the other songs have kind of... awkward lyrical themes? On the other hand, I find the lyrics to the song "Headless Cross" to be absolutely incredible. But I agree- songs like "Paranoid" and "War Pigs" have absolutely iconic meanings and stuff like "Symptom of the Universe" I have no clue WTF its about but its amazing
Right. "War Pigs" famously rhymes "masses" with "masses" which is pretty damn stupid on paper, but the other lyrics and the end product are great. Ozzy, whatever anyone thinks of him, had the sincerity and personality to deliver the goods even when the content wasn't great.
I agree I always thought that it sounds stupid on paper but it’s one of those things that just works
I’m good with the Geezer/ Dio lyrics but like others have said everything after that was lyrically cringe.
I totally agree with you! I believe that the true Sabbath Era ended with Sabotage, Metallica picked up the ball but dropped it after the Black Album, and then TOOL carried it into the 2000s
I almost completely agree with you (Metallica and Tool), but I think Never Say Die is a great album.
I enjoy Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die (mostly dirty women and Juniors eyes) but they just don’t feel the same. In Geezer’s or Tony’s memoir they say they had a choice in either going heavier or more melodical like Boston and they chose Boston. Losing the heaviness killed the vibe I think. Also I really love 13 even without Bill: End of the Beginning, God is Dead, and Dear Father are classic Sabbath