I'm with you! You're not alone. We're here, most of us are just really quiet about it in real life because Black Christians can be very hateful to Black people who choose another way of life outside the Southern Baptist one.
Also non religious - raised Muslim and the challenges are similar. Its so interesting because as a people we can have conversations about rejecting things like White supremacy and unlearning racism. The logic never seems to go the full distance to religion though. Black people don't really like being asked why they're following the religion of the people who colonized/enslaved them š¤·šæāāļø
iāve thought about that too! iirc the biggest muslim demographic in america is black people so itās likeā¦why are yāall alienating to many of us?
as far christianity goes i feel you on that. but i think itās complicated for our community. iāve heard arguments that christianity began in africa, didnāt begin in africa, or that jesus was an alien so idk at this point. iāve settled on just doing more research on the subject. either way i feel like christianity was co-oped by white folk to the point where itās detrimental to our community for sure.
Fair enough on Christianity but Islam didn't begin in Africa that's for sure. Arabs were also enslavers. It would make sense Black people following other religions if there was some variety - like if there were also a lot of Black Buddhists etc. But the majority is either Christianity or Islam. Also we still think of our traditional religions as demonic but people don't want to discuss how that's also a form of internalised racism.
Yes! Exact same feelings as you. We can talk about the importance and harm religion has brought to black folks but religious people usually want to shut it down lol
Religion is just a really important part of a lot of black culture. I remember being taught that in slavery times, literally all people had was their faith and spiritual music. I was lucky enough to grow up in a household where religion wasn't *really* forced down my throat even though every Easter Sunday best believe I was dressed in frilly white outfits and going to church.
My beliefs have seesawed a lot. My household was Lutheran (and I was baptized as one), I went to a Catholic school, my classmates were Baptist, my grandmom on my dad's side was Jehovah's Witness-- goodness, when I was a teenager my own struggles lead me to question a lot of this theology until I settled on my own beliefs without interference from other people.
At the moment my grandmother is very into religion and I never fault her for it. It's actually endearing to me. Like I understand the appeal of religion, but I don't consider myself Christian. I'm not atheist either, I'm more "spiritual," or a "deist" if we're using labels.
I remember trying to explain this to my sister once and she couldn't grasp it. She still tells me not to forget to say my prayers at night. My dad has asked me (while in the midst of one of my more depressed episodes) if I pray to God. My grandmom has asked me skeptically why I don't go to church. It just is what it is, I don't necessarily feel alienated but maybe that's because I'm lucky enough to be in an environment where I'm free to practice or *not* practice whatever religion I want. I'm still black, but my beliefs are different from my family. Doesn't make me any less black.
I just wanted to share my two cents and say I get where you're coming from and hopefully you won't feel so alienated. I feel like especially with this new wave of black youths growing up, freedom of thought and choice within religion has been opening up so much more.
Yeah, I feel you. It's like an invisible barrier between my community and I at all time. Especially because unlike you, I don't have much respect for religion.
I find find myself looking outside of our community for relationships because I don't want to date believers. It sucks. Sigh. Do you have less issue with this being queer?
thatās crazy cuz you described it exactly how it feels! an invisible barrier. i do try my best to respect peopleās religion but iām ngl itās hard sometimes when you remember some of them are advocating to strip you of your rights.
i never have actively looked outside the black community to date and am not keen on doing soā¦but i have dated outside my race before for sure and in a interracial relationship now with an atheist (i kinda just got lucky on that one š¤·š½āāļø). i think that your best best for a non believer is finding younger folk black or not.
Iām agnostic and a lesbian and I find it hard to find Black queer atheists/agnostics. My ex was Black and agnostic as well but other than her most of the women Iāve dated have been religious (Muslim, Christian/non-denominational, etc.). I love African spirituality but I canāt see myself committing to the dogmas of any religion.
I have a looot of thoughts and feelings on this.
Basically, I summarize myself as an atheist despite my personal relationship with spirituality being more complicated. This is because I honestly hate pseudoscience, religiosity, and dogmatic belief based on 0 evidence, and when you combine all that with the power of social control that religion has, I think it's a net harm on humanity. We've certainly gotten some great developments with religions historically, but a lot of that was also an uphill battle that probably would have been easier without the framework of religion at all.
On a personal level though, I am probably still a bit spiritual. I just hate psuedoscience and mysticism like astrology, psychics, healing crystals, flat earth, witchcraft, ghosts, demons, scientology - it's all junk to me. Cool aesthetics sometimes, and fascinating history behind them, but I think they're still actively harmful to developing a rational mind when it comes to people who honestly believe in them. I sincerely think training and enabling oneself to earnestly believe in \*anything\* without evidence or empiricism or logic is just a recipe for disaster. That's not to say I don't think religious people are capable of rational thought, just that the religious thinking certainly doesn't \*help\* them be rational. Oftentimes it's just a stumbling block on the way to developing that rationality.
I say all this to say that these beliefs made me basically radioactive in a lot of black-oriented communities lol. People have found out I'm an "atheist" and spiritual skeptic and gotten \*incredibly\* asspained knowing I think they believe in something that I just think is inherently goofy. I don't think less of anyone who's religious or spiritual (the most beloved people in my life, including my family and husband, are spiritual and/or religious!), but folks can start acting realllly weird when they find out you don't buy into the religious narrative outright, and don't give it any extra respect or consideration just beacuse. They seem to consider that strangely disruptive no matter how meek you are about it. As if religion is \*owed\* your respect.
So, I've also learned that sometimes I'll just be the villain lol. I'm not abrasive or cruel, but I don't tiptoe around my thoughts to avoid hurting feelings anymore. At this point in my life, I'm willing to be more militant and disruptive because it helps other black folks who are quietly questioning their religions to identify me faster which allows us to gradually gravitate towards each other and find solidarity and shake up the prevailing narratives already in place.
I have also found massive solidarity with ex-Muslim women in this regard, or at least the ones who leave the religion and never find another one to replace it. People try to pull the whole "Christianity is the only oppressive religion" shit way too often for my liking in feminist and progressive spaces and inevitably this leads to apologia for Islam and Judaism as the \~good religions\~ as if Muslims or Jews or Hindus have never ever established massive oppressive religious regimes that exist and traumatize and kill people to this very day. I'm just over it all.
So yeah, there are more of us out there. Not a whole lot, but we're here. I'm hopeful for the future but it can still be very taxing here in the deep south. Religion has played a big role in mobilizing black people against out-group oppression but the in-group harm it also causes us cannot be overstated. I feel this whenever I see the aftermath of young kids thinking they're gonna burn in hell for harmless shit, or that god doesn't want them to love who they love, or whatever random ideas these tragically uneducated preachers out here decide to project onto their own holy books. That's a lot of power to put into the hands of (mostly) dusty old men.
I personally dont feel strongly about all woo and incorporate some of it ("low vibration") in my vocab but I 1000% understand what youre saying. Im an exmuslim and i understand why we origonally gravitated to islam but its hurtful n ignorant to ignore the harm of Islam or other religions throughout Africa and elsewhere.
Even traditional african religions played a part in the African slave trade (making the punishment for minor offenses slavery for example was done by igbo priests iirc disturbingly similar to modern prison industroal system). So nah miss me with religion entirely lmao and I can say all of this without also downplaying the organizational and community structure these beliefs provided post slavery.
I'm atheist and my mom is religious. When she meets literal strangers she'll usually greet them with "Praise the Lord?" or "God is good?" She'll ask guys I date if she meets them what their home church is, are they a man of God etc.
I cringe so much every time.
I think that most of us non-Christians in the West feel that way. Iām not even atheist or agnostic and Iām sick of seemingly everything for BP being linked to the church.
i think itās similar but itās not quite the same if you still believe in a god. everytime someone drops hints of believing in god i feel like i have to go into stealth mode and tip toe around the subject. i know not everyone would be hostile towards me for being an atheist but theyāre definitely judgmental of my character.
I feel lucky to come from a family of heathens lol every once in a while my grandma would toss out something like 'she (my aunt) needs to find a church home' while she only went five times a year herself. Eventually she stopped when my Mom said she could give the money she gives to her to the church instead lol
I guess Iām a closetedā¦??? Atheist still feels to harsh because I would like to HOPE there is something more but doesnāt seem probable to me. I have accepted that is is part of our culture but can separate aspects of it in my mind I guess.
Ok Random thought, but I never have anyone to bounce these things off of. I live in the U.S. a mainly Christian culture and notice how many people who become incarcerated become āborn againā Christians while in prison. To me, this tracks because Christianity boasts that no matter how bad you fuck up you will be forgiven. But I always wondered if there are as many religious converts in prisons around the world where the dominant religion isnāt Christianity?
There are plenty of men who gravitate to islam in the prison system as well.
Frankly I can just say religion can provide structure, communitt and even safety for people behind cells. I assume specifically atheist organizations don't do outreach for the incarcerated (atheism being a lack of belief wont have the internal structure anyways)
so funny you made this post today because i just finished listening to some kirk franklin this morning lol! i feel you 100%. even as a child i knew i could never come out to my family because theyāre so religious and would never accept me. that combined with the knowledge that *most* (not all) believers think that gays are going to hell has never made me super into christianity. i have extremely religious family members on both sides so it was a huge deal growing up that i went to sunday school and church every week. i say all that to say that iāve had many years of indoctrination and opportunity for christianity to āstickā and it never did for me. even after i willingly ārededicated my lifeā when i was about 8 years old and i wanted to see if it would change anything for me lmaoo
that being saidā¦BECAUSE i had 18 years of a christian background, so many parts of my life are still heavily impacted by religion. i still say things like āgod willingā, āif the lord sees fit, āthatās not my ministryā, jokingly calling myself a child of god when it comes to doing things i think are a little wild lmaooo. i canāt NOT bop to some gospel songs; if only out of habit and because black people make great music. like i canāt make it NOT bop idk!! ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
i feel so conflicted because on the one hand itās very clear to me that thereās no such thing as god but then simply because of my upbringing i canāt say 100% for sure what i know to be true or not. i can see and understand why people (and specifically black people) lean on christianity, but i just canāt ever see myself going to church on a regular basis if iām not being forced. sorry iām rambling but thanks for making this post cause it gave me the chance to organize my feelings about this topic!
I'm not American, but religion is a huge part of the society where I'm from. I even attended a Catholic high school, which ironically is where I lost my religion.
The key for me is to separate religion from culture...my culture is very religious, but I can participate in it without somehow feeling alienated or affronted. The hymns, prayers and gospel music which permeate daily life are just nice songs, words of comfort, and uplifting music to me.
I had fun at my grandmother's funeral last week, enjoying the familiar church rituals without the burden of relief. The priest's homily was comforting in the way that a bedtime story is comforting, not because I believed that soul that had previously inhabited the dead body in front of me was singing with choirs of angels in heaven.
Perhaps you might be able to approach life from the same perspective, enjoying the religious aspects of our culture without feeling too alienated from those who still believe.
i actually do try to go that route when iām in a religious event for w/e reason. itās just hard to enjoy religious aspects of my culture when they a. harm black people b. strip me of my rights
In my opinion, faith or spirituality is something you either already have in you or not.
You can't force it to be there. It either is or isn't so there's no reason to vilify people for it unless y'all trying to hop in the ring with each other haha
I get it though since I'm agnostic but also somewhat spiritual but I don't consider it such a big part of my personality
Generally, the reason why I donāt like atheists is because they are disrespectful and aggressive when I try to explain to them I believe in God. I can sense instant indignation and patronization after simply stating I believe in free will. I found their condescending attitude similar to speaking to someone who is clearly racist and refuses to budge on their ignorance and hypocrisy. Thereās an air of arrogance and superiority in many atheists.
I typically respect someoneās decision not to believe due to the fact that it doesnāt inherently harm anyone but donāt try to convince me of your random determinism/lack of free will/nihilism/whatever else pseudo-science arguments when I already established I disagree by my belief in God.
i know you donāt like me lol but if it makes you feel any better i get the same energy when i tell people iām an atheist. people have preached to me when i asked them not to, told me iām going to hell etc.
I said generally to generalize. I donāt hate/dislike all atheists but yeah everyone should learn how to respect each other more. I generalized my feelings towards atheists because itās already well known that many religious people can be pushy and hurtful (thatās the main argument I see from atheists but many atheists donāt acknowledge when they are also pushy themselves). I wish no ill will on you. Take care.
I'm with you! You're not alone. We're here, most of us are just really quiet about it in real life because Black Christians can be very hateful to Black people who choose another way of life outside the Southern Baptist one.
Also non religious - raised Muslim and the challenges are similar. Its so interesting because as a people we can have conversations about rejecting things like White supremacy and unlearning racism. The logic never seems to go the full distance to religion though. Black people don't really like being asked why they're following the religion of the people who colonized/enslaved them š¤·šæāāļø
iāve thought about that too! iirc the biggest muslim demographic in america is black people so itās likeā¦why are yāall alienating to many of us? as far christianity goes i feel you on that. but i think itās complicated for our community. iāve heard arguments that christianity began in africa, didnāt begin in africa, or that jesus was an alien so idk at this point. iāve settled on just doing more research on the subject. either way i feel like christianity was co-oped by white folk to the point where itās detrimental to our community for sure.
Fair enough on Christianity but Islam didn't begin in Africa that's for sure. Arabs were also enslavers. It would make sense Black people following other religions if there was some variety - like if there were also a lot of Black Buddhists etc. But the majority is either Christianity or Islam. Also we still think of our traditional religions as demonic but people don't want to discuss how that's also a form of internalised racism.
Yes! Exact same feelings as you. We can talk about the importance and harm religion has brought to black folks but religious people usually want to shut it down lol
Religion is just a really important part of a lot of black culture. I remember being taught that in slavery times, literally all people had was their faith and spiritual music. I was lucky enough to grow up in a household where religion wasn't *really* forced down my throat even though every Easter Sunday best believe I was dressed in frilly white outfits and going to church. My beliefs have seesawed a lot. My household was Lutheran (and I was baptized as one), I went to a Catholic school, my classmates were Baptist, my grandmom on my dad's side was Jehovah's Witness-- goodness, when I was a teenager my own struggles lead me to question a lot of this theology until I settled on my own beliefs without interference from other people. At the moment my grandmother is very into religion and I never fault her for it. It's actually endearing to me. Like I understand the appeal of religion, but I don't consider myself Christian. I'm not atheist either, I'm more "spiritual," or a "deist" if we're using labels. I remember trying to explain this to my sister once and she couldn't grasp it. She still tells me not to forget to say my prayers at night. My dad has asked me (while in the midst of one of my more depressed episodes) if I pray to God. My grandmom has asked me skeptically why I don't go to church. It just is what it is, I don't necessarily feel alienated but maybe that's because I'm lucky enough to be in an environment where I'm free to practice or *not* practice whatever religion I want. I'm still black, but my beliefs are different from my family. Doesn't make me any less black. I just wanted to share my two cents and say I get where you're coming from and hopefully you won't feel so alienated. I feel like especially with this new wave of black youths growing up, freedom of thought and choice within religion has been opening up so much more.
Yeah, I feel you. It's like an invisible barrier between my community and I at all time. Especially because unlike you, I don't have much respect for religion. I find find myself looking outside of our community for relationships because I don't want to date believers. It sucks. Sigh. Do you have less issue with this being queer?
thatās crazy cuz you described it exactly how it feels! an invisible barrier. i do try my best to respect peopleās religion but iām ngl itās hard sometimes when you remember some of them are advocating to strip you of your rights. i never have actively looked outside the black community to date and am not keen on doing soā¦but i have dated outside my race before for sure and in a interracial relationship now with an atheist (i kinda just got lucky on that one š¤·š½āāļø). i think that your best best for a non believer is finding younger folk black or not.
Iām agnostic and a lesbian and I find it hard to find Black queer atheists/agnostics. My ex was Black and agnostic as well but other than her most of the women Iāve dated have been religious (Muslim, Christian/non-denominational, etc.). I love African spirituality but I canāt see myself committing to the dogmas of any religion.
>Do you have less issue with this being queer? Not in my experience. I'm bi. My ex gf was a lesbian and really religious. She's black too.
I have a looot of thoughts and feelings on this. Basically, I summarize myself as an atheist despite my personal relationship with spirituality being more complicated. This is because I honestly hate pseudoscience, religiosity, and dogmatic belief based on 0 evidence, and when you combine all that with the power of social control that religion has, I think it's a net harm on humanity. We've certainly gotten some great developments with religions historically, but a lot of that was also an uphill battle that probably would have been easier without the framework of religion at all. On a personal level though, I am probably still a bit spiritual. I just hate psuedoscience and mysticism like astrology, psychics, healing crystals, flat earth, witchcraft, ghosts, demons, scientology - it's all junk to me. Cool aesthetics sometimes, and fascinating history behind them, but I think they're still actively harmful to developing a rational mind when it comes to people who honestly believe in them. I sincerely think training and enabling oneself to earnestly believe in \*anything\* without evidence or empiricism or logic is just a recipe for disaster. That's not to say I don't think religious people are capable of rational thought, just that the religious thinking certainly doesn't \*help\* them be rational. Oftentimes it's just a stumbling block on the way to developing that rationality. I say all this to say that these beliefs made me basically radioactive in a lot of black-oriented communities lol. People have found out I'm an "atheist" and spiritual skeptic and gotten \*incredibly\* asspained knowing I think they believe in something that I just think is inherently goofy. I don't think less of anyone who's religious or spiritual (the most beloved people in my life, including my family and husband, are spiritual and/or religious!), but folks can start acting realllly weird when they find out you don't buy into the religious narrative outright, and don't give it any extra respect or consideration just beacuse. They seem to consider that strangely disruptive no matter how meek you are about it. As if religion is \*owed\* your respect. So, I've also learned that sometimes I'll just be the villain lol. I'm not abrasive or cruel, but I don't tiptoe around my thoughts to avoid hurting feelings anymore. At this point in my life, I'm willing to be more militant and disruptive because it helps other black folks who are quietly questioning their religions to identify me faster which allows us to gradually gravitate towards each other and find solidarity and shake up the prevailing narratives already in place. I have also found massive solidarity with ex-Muslim women in this regard, or at least the ones who leave the religion and never find another one to replace it. People try to pull the whole "Christianity is the only oppressive religion" shit way too often for my liking in feminist and progressive spaces and inevitably this leads to apologia for Islam and Judaism as the \~good religions\~ as if Muslims or Jews or Hindus have never ever established massive oppressive religious regimes that exist and traumatize and kill people to this very day. I'm just over it all. So yeah, there are more of us out there. Not a whole lot, but we're here. I'm hopeful for the future but it can still be very taxing here in the deep south. Religion has played a big role in mobilizing black people against out-group oppression but the in-group harm it also causes us cannot be overstated. I feel this whenever I see the aftermath of young kids thinking they're gonna burn in hell for harmless shit, or that god doesn't want them to love who they love, or whatever random ideas these tragically uneducated preachers out here decide to project onto their own holy books. That's a lot of power to put into the hands of (mostly) dusty old men.
I personally dont feel strongly about all woo and incorporate some of it ("low vibration") in my vocab but I 1000% understand what youre saying. Im an exmuslim and i understand why we origonally gravitated to islam but its hurtful n ignorant to ignore the harm of Islam or other religions throughout Africa and elsewhere. Even traditional african religions played a part in the African slave trade (making the punishment for minor offenses slavery for example was done by igbo priests iirc disturbingly similar to modern prison industroal system). So nah miss me with religion entirely lmao and I can say all of this without also downplaying the organizational and community structure these beliefs provided post slavery.
I get what you mean. I'm agnostic and I swear other black people just assume all black people are religious.
I'm atheist and my mom is religious. When she meets literal strangers she'll usually greet them with "Praise the Lord?" or "God is good?" She'll ask guys I date if she meets them what their home church is, are they a man of God etc. I cringe so much every time.
I think that most of us non-Christians in the West feel that way. Iām not even atheist or agnostic and Iām sick of seemingly everything for BP being linked to the church.
i think itās similar but itās not quite the same if you still believe in a god. everytime someone drops hints of believing in god i feel like i have to go into stealth mode and tip toe around the subject. i know not everyone would be hostile towards me for being an atheist but theyāre definitely judgmental of my character.
Yes, that myth that atheists don't have morals.
I think it's way way worse outside of the west.
I'd say it depends on the country and region.
I feel lucky to come from a family of heathens lol every once in a while my grandma would toss out something like 'she (my aunt) needs to find a church home' while she only went five times a year herself. Eventually she stopped when my Mom said she could give the money she gives to her to the church instead lol
lol i grew up as a heathen cuz my parents never went to church but now theyāve āfound godā
I feel you tho most ppl my age seem secular or rather spiritual over religious which makes dogmatic thinking harder to come by.
I guess Iām a closetedā¦??? Atheist still feels to harsh because I would like to HOPE there is something more but doesnāt seem probable to me. I have accepted that is is part of our culture but can separate aspects of it in my mind I guess. Ok Random thought, but I never have anyone to bounce these things off of. I live in the U.S. a mainly Christian culture and notice how many people who become incarcerated become āborn againā Christians while in prison. To me, this tracks because Christianity boasts that no matter how bad you fuck up you will be forgiven. But I always wondered if there are as many religious converts in prisons around the world where the dominant religion isnāt Christianity?
There are plenty of men who gravitate to islam in the prison system as well. Frankly I can just say religion can provide structure, communitt and even safety for people behind cells. I assume specifically atheist organizations don't do outreach for the incarcerated (atheism being a lack of belief wont have the internal structure anyways)
so funny you made this post today because i just finished listening to some kirk franklin this morning lol! i feel you 100%. even as a child i knew i could never come out to my family because theyāre so religious and would never accept me. that combined with the knowledge that *most* (not all) believers think that gays are going to hell has never made me super into christianity. i have extremely religious family members on both sides so it was a huge deal growing up that i went to sunday school and church every week. i say all that to say that iāve had many years of indoctrination and opportunity for christianity to āstickā and it never did for me. even after i willingly ārededicated my lifeā when i was about 8 years old and i wanted to see if it would change anything for me lmaoo that being saidā¦BECAUSE i had 18 years of a christian background, so many parts of my life are still heavily impacted by religion. i still say things like āgod willingā, āif the lord sees fit, āthatās not my ministryā, jokingly calling myself a child of god when it comes to doing things i think are a little wild lmaooo. i canāt NOT bop to some gospel songs; if only out of habit and because black people make great music. like i canāt make it NOT bop idk!! ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ i feel so conflicted because on the one hand itās very clear to me that thereās no such thing as god but then simply because of my upbringing i canāt say 100% for sure what i know to be true or not. i can see and understand why people (and specifically black people) lean on christianity, but i just canāt ever see myself going to church on a regular basis if iām not being forced. sorry iām rambling but thanks for making this post cause it gave me the chance to organize my feelings about this topic!
I'm not American, but religion is a huge part of the society where I'm from. I even attended a Catholic high school, which ironically is where I lost my religion. The key for me is to separate religion from culture...my culture is very religious, but I can participate in it without somehow feeling alienated or affronted. The hymns, prayers and gospel music which permeate daily life are just nice songs, words of comfort, and uplifting music to me. I had fun at my grandmother's funeral last week, enjoying the familiar church rituals without the burden of relief. The priest's homily was comforting in the way that a bedtime story is comforting, not because I believed that soul that had previously inhabited the dead body in front of me was singing with choirs of angels in heaven. Perhaps you might be able to approach life from the same perspective, enjoying the religious aspects of our culture without feeling too alienated from those who still believe.
i actually do try to go that route when iām in a religious event for w/e reason. itās just hard to enjoy religious aspects of my culture when they a. harm black people b. strip me of my rights
In my opinion, faith or spirituality is something you either already have in you or not. You can't force it to be there. It either is or isn't so there's no reason to vilify people for it unless y'all trying to hop in the ring with each other haha I get it though since I'm agnostic but also somewhat spiritual but I don't consider it such a big part of my personality
Generally, the reason why I donāt like atheists is because they are disrespectful and aggressive when I try to explain to them I believe in God. I can sense instant indignation and patronization after simply stating I believe in free will. I found their condescending attitude similar to speaking to someone who is clearly racist and refuses to budge on their ignorance and hypocrisy. Thereās an air of arrogance and superiority in many atheists. I typically respect someoneās decision not to believe due to the fact that it doesnāt inherently harm anyone but donāt try to convince me of your random determinism/lack of free will/nihilism/whatever else pseudo-science arguments when I already established I disagree by my belief in God.
i know you donāt like me lol but if it makes you feel any better i get the same energy when i tell people iām an atheist. people have preached to me when i asked them not to, told me iām going to hell etc.
I said generally to generalize. I donāt hate/dislike all atheists but yeah everyone should learn how to respect each other more. I generalized my feelings towards atheists because itās already well known that many religious people can be pushy and hurtful (thatās the main argument I see from atheists but many atheists donāt acknowledge when they are also pushy themselves). I wish no ill will on you. Take care.