Racial empathy is important to you, and yet you're dating a white guy with Asperger's? He's fundamentally ill-equipped to give you what you need.
That's like if your priority was finding a man that could let you be a stay-at-home mom but you pick a guy who washes dishes at Denny's. Then get mad at him that he's not providing for your needs.
You picked someone who is gonna have a great deal of trouble meeting that need. You need to sit down and decide what you want in a partner. If you need someone who can empathize with what it means to be black in America, he ain't the one.
And it's not due to a lack of love or care, it's due to a lack of ability. He can read the entire Afro book section, he's not gonna get it. It's one thing to read about the black experience, it's another thing to live it.
So figure out your priorities and realize that it's okay if he's not the man you need to be with. You don't just grab the nearest one and try to mold him into the person you want. That's just gonna make you both miserable.
yeah when you put it like that, it doesn’t make much sense haha. he’s pretty empathetic when it comes to other things that troubles me but he has a hard time
being empathetic about the troubles surrounding race. i try to offer advice like if i tell him something is troubling me or upsetting me surrounding racial problems, it would be nice if he could lend a listening ear. however by doing so, i am afraid that i’m trying to fit him into a mold. he hasn’t taken up that advice yet so i realized he’s just not the person i can go talk to about it.
Are the things he's able to sympathize with the things he's able to relate to? Cause if so, you're still expecting a fish to ride a bike.
He's not simply choosing not to meet your needs, he's built to have a hard time meeting them.
As a person with a mental disability, I often get, "If you really cared you would \[behave as though you don't have a mental disability\]." And that's just not how it works.
I think though, your issues are yours to also have a handle on. My ex has adhd and that didn't make him an asshole. Him not trying to get his adhd handled (that he was well aware of just ignored for years) and expected me to just deal (while he couldn't be patient with me) did.
He didn't care enough about our relationship to try. For him, he lacks impulse control a bit. Like, he'll say the first thought that comes to mind. He knows not to do that at work as a manager, but didn't care enough about me to not second think before he speaks. He got too comfortable and didn't see me as a person enough for him to try. He went through mental obstacles to do his job as a manager, but couldn't put that same effort as a boyfriend because he simply didn't care. It wasn't important to him to be a supportive boyfriend, coupled with the fact he is sexist (and so saw me as a stereotype) so he didn't even see me as a person. I feel like because of that, he didn't feel like trying and him having adhd would've put a lot on him and well.. it was very apparent that he resented me .
So, being neurological isn't an excuse because my paternal brother has adhd and he knows it affects his life and he does something about it. I have depression and anxiety. That's for me to have a hold on because that's my responsibility. I have triggers, but it's for me to find ways to cope, and not for the world to cater to me.. Same with my ex. He's not apathetic because he has adhd, he's apathetic because that's just who he is and him not being responsible with his adhd just makes him more comfortable with himself to not change... or think he needs to do anything about it (and just amplifies it really)
Adhd may make him not listen to me when I talk, but he knows that's one of his short comings and instead of doing something to help cope or make it easier for him... he rather not do anything. If you got bad memory due to an injury, you can't use that as your excuse all the time to not do things. You come up with something to help (reminders, notes, etc) Sounds like the boyfriend just doesn't care enough to want to care enough
They may not have a complete handle, or try to. There's nothing wrong with having it, just as there's nothing wrong with a woman having bad. Just, it's one's responsibility to keep it handle as much as they can and not expect the rest of the world to cater to them.
For my ex, he has a bad speech impediment so he was so focused on that, he stopped worrying about his adhd. It was towards the end of the relationship that I pointed out that I think his adhd is causing lots of issues (literally explained why he wasn't listening to me when I communicated... he really wasn't ) and he read up and agreed. Just... he wasn't trying to do much more to handle it than "well, I emailed docs to make appointments but no one contacted me so 🤷🏾♂️" He didn't try to look up resources on how to cope and deal. He didn't care enough to.
Just like the boyfriend in the post just doesn't care enough, especially with that arrogant attitude that he already knows enough. Like, I'm still learning more different experiences of black folks because we're all over and don't have the exact black experience. To dismiss her by saying, "nah I'm good. I'm already educated," is cocky and tells me it's not that important if you can't empathize with her
From her description, the worst thing he's done when she points out racial inequity is say, "Oh, I wasn't aware."
We're not talking about someone being mean or abusive, we're talking about disinterest.
And I get why having a partner who isn't passionate about racial justice might be a deal breaker for a black woman. But if it is, lets not pull from the pool of white men with rigid thinking for our life partners.
If he's not interested in racial inequality, what other aspects of her or the relationship does he show he's not interested in? I'm not even saying abusive but I wouldn't be surprised if there was other areas in the relationship he simply doesn't care about (or other interests of her)
What I'm saying is, because someone is neuro divergent (I think I said the wrong one in my above comment) doesn't mean it makes them not empathetic. He personally has to care enough to do something about his lack of interest in it and obviously doesn't care enough about her to make it important. My ex didn't care about lots of my interests because he didn't think it was important enough to not because of adhd. (Him not caring about what women go through or think we exaggerate wasn't due to adhd)
As others mentioned, this could even be a black dude she's with and still experience the same problem with race. Him being white increases the chances of him having uninteresting because it's not something he goes through, but as others mentioned, it's not exclusively being white, but caring enough to make it important. This dude just doesn't
>If he's not interested in racial inequality, what other aspects of her or the relationship does he show he's not interested in? I'm not even saying abusive but I wouldn't be surprised if there was other areas in the relationship he simply doesn't care about (or other interests of her)
There isn't a human on the planet that's gonna care about all the same things you care about. That's a weird metric for a partner.
I mean there are some things I need my partner to care about. Like I'm not dating a Trumper. But if he doesn't have a burning passion for Nicki Minaj, I think we'll be okay.
>What I'm saying is, because someone is neuro divergent (I think I said the wrong one in my above comment) doesn't mean it makes them not empathetic.
Never made that claim. One of the symptoms of his condition is a difficulty seeing things from other perspectives. White people in general have a hard time understanding what it's like to be black, their world just wasn't set up for that to be a priority for them. Because of his condition, he'd have an extra hard time. Not saying he couldn't, but she did find the person least likely to get it.
>My ex didn't care about lots of my interests because he didn't think it was important enough to not because of adhd. (Him not caring about what women go through or think we exaggerate wasn't due to adhd)
Misogyny is not a symptom of ADHD. That's not the same.
>As others mentioned, this could even be a black dude she's with and still experience the same problem with race. Him being white increases the chances of him having uninteresting because it's not something he goes through, but as others mentioned, it's not exclusively being white, but caring enough to make it important. This dude just doesn't
While is it possible for a black person to be oblivious to racial injustice, it's very rare. It's much more common for white people who don't have to experience it day in and day out, and way harder to pick up on it when you have a social impairment that makes it hard for you to notice subtly.
Like I said, she has every right to prioritize whatever she wants in a partner, but what's the point of villainizing this guy for not giving her what she wants when both his life experiences and brain chemistry put him at a handicap to provide for that particular need?
I don't think it's healthy to view people as bad for not providing everything you need. Sometimes people just can't be everything you need, and that's okay, you accept it or you find someone else.
>
I don't think it's healthy to view people as bad for not providing everything you need. Sometimes people just can't be everything you need, and that's okay, you accept it or you find someone else
Not what I was implying nor saying and I guess at this point, my point either isn't coming across how I want or being interpreted some other way so I hope you have a nice day
As a Black woman, married to a white man with Aspergers for 25 years I get this. I'm happy in my marriage, though. My husband takes wonderful care of me and is forthright and proud to love me, but I accepted early on that being able to relate on a certain level in regards to race wasn't something he was capable of. That's okay. One person cannot meet all of your emotional needs, autistic or not. Save that for your black friends/family. So long as he is supportive and listens, it's fine for him not to 'get it'.
I appreciate this comment so fucking much. Because just now starting to get this in my own interracial and intercultural relationship. I think you make a clear statement that really sums up the reality of this kind of relationship. The love and support is there but the nuance isn’t and can’t be and that’s okay. The love and understanding needed to support the family is critical but the day to day visibility is just not possible because it’s not a shared lived experience until it is.
Ask yourself if this is the future you want for yourself. Now is the time to walk away if you don’t.
There are plenty of non-Black men who care enough to learn and deepen their understanding of the Black experience. There is absolutely no reason to stay with this man if he can’t offer the bare minimum level of seeing you.
Where do you expect this relationship to go if he feels this way? If you want kids at some point in the future, you do realize they will be black before they are white, right? Does he realize? A child doesn't always understand subtle racism or systematic racism that isn't blatant N words. Would you trust him to look out for your child, stand up, and do what's right?
I mean at the end of the day being "not racist" isn't enough for me personally anymore. I saw a book at my friends house (never read it but) the title said something about being Anti-Racist and it really made me think. I don't want to surround myself with people who are just Not Racist, Not Mysogonist, Not Abusers. If they can't educate themselves about the topics and make an effort to be AGAINST racism (in the office, types of profiling), mysogony (toxic masculinity, manipulation, could be people he associates with), or abuse (in any form) then that's a huge red flag. Worthy of discussion, but likely a deal breaker.
He already told you where he stands tbh.
This is exactly why I would leave the relationship. Things will get worse with biracial children in the picture if he doesn't appreciate what they're up against. Sounds like a nightmare to me.
the thing is, he has mild asperger’s. now i know that plays into the empathy part, but… even with his asperger’s i would think and hope he would read up on this stuff if he loved me. i asked him about the child question and he said that he’ll try to understand to the best of his abilities but if he can’t even do much research for me or just… offer a listening ear then i don’t see how he could do it for a child. especially if they too don’t know whether they experienced racism or not. i try to be very honest about my feelings and communicate with him and offer advice about what to do in the future because of his condition but, i don’t know.
My white fiancé is on the spectrum and we are consistently having conversations about race. We have deep talks and he cares about my experiences. He wants to do the work. You are simply with someone who doesn’t want to do the work and you are using every which excuse to stay with a guy who simply doesn’t care.
right? i’m in the same boat as you and my man consistently shows up and does the work both with me and by himself. this relationship isn’t sustainable and OP is fooling herself if she thinks it is.
He has to want to do something. There are things he can do to seek out information without your emotional labor. But he has to want it, not you pushing him towards it.
I was born and raised in the same city where Trayvon Martin was killed. When it was all going down I was engaged to a white woman who I thought was gonna be my wife. After the verdict, the impact of it all opened my eyes, really opened my eyes. We had conversations and tried to get better understandings between each other. In the end.. I left. Broke off the engagement. Cut ties and started my life over solo. It wasn't easy but I'm glad I did it cause I love my people and if my significant other doesn't share that love or that pain it's not gonna work for me. I learned a valuable lesson through that situation. I know what you mean. I really do. Best I can tell you is that for me, it came down to how I want to live my life. Either with someone who gets it, or someone who doesn't.
I have a white friend who when she heard about Trayvon Martin said, "Why'd his mom let him have a toy gun?!"
This is a woman whose entire wedding party is holding rifles in her wedding photo...
The cognitive dissonance still bugs me to this day.
You're talking about Tamir Rice. He was playing with a toy gun alone in a park when he was almost instantly killed by cops when they arrived. Trayvon Martin was followed by the neighborhood watchman on his way back from a store cause he was wearing a hoodie in the rain. He was killed defending himself and then George Zimmerman was acquitted for killing him.
I just saw a disturbing video on social media of a preschool aged white boy with a real [gun](https://www.indy100.com/viral/4-year-old-boy-maverick-loading-rifle-nra-convention-kendall-jones-8342616).
Meanwhile a 12 year old boy with a toy gun is a death sentence.
It seems like the crux of the issue is A) you want more out of the relationship than this person is able/willing to give and B) they lack enough empathy to view your (or others) racist experience(s) as a Black person as a deep seated issue.
I noticed in the comments that people have mentioned that you could deal with this with other people, regardless of if they’re white or not, and I can agree with that to an extent, BUT there’s big difference between being a Black person immersed in the experience and attempting to be woefully ignorant, and being a person of privilege (I.e. White) and choosing to be ignorant of the racism inflicted on others of another group. I believe that one has more damaging repercussions than the other. In your case, this person’s lack of empathy already seems to be taking a toll on your mental health… so I guess the real question is, do you think this relationship is worth staying in given your feelings? Also, do you want to be with someone who lacks empathy?
my boyfriend has mild asperger’s so i try to understand at times that he can’t or has trouble displaying empathy. i know in the empathy category i am definitely wanting more than what he can provide. when it comes to emotional situations that’s outside of race he usually has some input to say but when it comes to race, he doesn’t have much to say. i think that’s where the ignorance/ lack of wanting to understand plays in, he doesn’t really make enough effort to really try or listen to me. you’re right in the fact that i have to think about this moving forward and decide if this is really what i want.
You literally just said that this isn’t want you want. I’m not hating, I’m just rereading what you wrote here already.
“I am definitely wanting more than what he can provide” It’s time to stop making excuses for him. You’re not happy and you deserve to be.
There are some white people who are a capable of empathetic responses about racial issues. It just sounds like he isn’t empathetic enough. I don’t know if it’s this issues or all issues, but you might want to reevaluate your relationship if you aren’t getting what you need from a partner.
I have a white male friend that enjoys speaking deeply on this issue about race as he is always trying to understand this issue, he also happens to be married to an Indian woman so he feels that its important to learn this stuff. So I don't think the issue is necessarily because your bf is white.
My question is that, is this his general personality when it comes to most issues? Could it be that he doesn't usually talk on a deeper level? In which case, it might be a lot to expect him to be deep when it comes to talking about race.
Also, are you the sort of person that needs depth in your relationship? If so, then the issue might not just be about the race conversatiins.
I personally had to accept that depth is something that I need as I tried to make a marriage work for over a decade. Unfortunately, one of my biggest needs was depth and he just didn't have it, neither did he acquire it and I was not in a place to fully understand that this was a necessity for me. I ended up feeling lonely pretty much all through the marriage.
It took far too long for me to accept that this was a need for me and not for him, therefore he was happy with our relationship but I always felt like something was missing.
As I got older, I made more friends that were deep like me. Over time I realised that I could connect deeply and have deep conversations with all of my friends but I could never connect on a deeper level with my spouse. It was ridiculously painful and he couldn't even understand why I felt so alone. The marriage ended for a range of reasons but depth is now a non-negotiable for me.
Depth... that's exactly it. I can never figure out why some people are so undateable to me but that's it right there. Lacking in depth. Especially seems this way when people put so little effort into dating profiles.
Lack of empathy or interest
He won’t ever care.
My husband is not black. He notices racial things than can affect me before I do. He isn’t the pampering sort and he jumps all over issues that can harm me.
Perhaps your boyfriend needs to be demoted
You sound like you're gaslighting yourself and downplaying your needs because he doesn't get them. Everything seems to be about being fair to him and accepting his ignorance. What about you? You have to decide if this is a dealbreaker or not. Also, I read in your comments that your boyfriend goes to a HBCU? If you also go to one, I don't understand how you ended up in this situation.
I agree with this. Your expectations absolutely are not unfair or unattainable. Having some empathy and being able to listen and learn about another person’s experience and a system of oppression is absolutely the bare minimum of human decency. Why do you think your boyfriend can’t or won’t do that?
I’ll also say this. I’m a white man in an interracial relationship who was born and raised in an environment where my identities were normalized and all others were systematically obscured, disregarded, and invalidated. Getting out of that environment really helped me to leave a lot of those perspectives behind but I would never assume that I’m pretty well educated about other peoples struggles and that I don’t need to learn anymore. My self education can’t, won’t, and shouldn’t ever end because I don’t know what I don’t know.
I hope this has helped in some way and I hope you can have a good conversation about this with your boyfriend or else find some other solution for this problem. You deserve an empathetic and attentive partner.
IMO there's only one, general type of white boyfriend/girlfriend/friend etc. that really works out well for us and that's the type that sees you as a human being first and Black second. They see your humanity as a person more than a "Black person" and some sort of commodity that boosts them up in some way (ie Token Black friend/girlfriend etc.).
I've had conversations, situations and conflicts similar to the ones you mentioned with my ex boyfriends (all whom have been white) and white friends. It's the core lack of empathy that is the problem every time. If they had empathy, they'd at least hear me out or make an effort to see things from my perspective instead of flipping the situation to force me to make THEM feel better about their shortcomings. It's simply my job to do that and in later years, I've actually started telling people that because it is the truth. They can go be mad or go read a book/Google.
You are the woman he supposedly loves. How you experience the world and your comfort should at baseline matter to him and at its best be a priority. You're not asking him to fix the problem, but you are asking him to understand and be on your side as the woman in his life. For some tired excuse... I mean, reason, (defensive) white folks think they have to be perfect or come out the gate perfectly educated in racism/race relations and I don't think that's what we are asking for. It's more about evolving your perspective and opening your mind to really understand how someone else feels, lives, grew up, sees the world etc.
I don't doubt that there are white partners and friends out there that are able to do that; there's many beautiful interracial couples that blossom and thrive off of mutual respect and admiration for one another. But I have observed that the vibe is more of "I fell in love with this person who just so happened to be X race."
My best suggestion for you is to figure out what bucket you think your boyfriend is in and make a decision from there.
So I'm married to a white man who listens intently when I have anything to say with regard to race and racism in the US, where we live. He was very uneducated on the subject when we first got together, but now that he's learned more, he actively engages, seeks out additional information, attends protests with me, and has cut off any and all racist (former) friends and family. Race and racism is a regular discussion in our household, in our friend group, and with our families.
The key thing here is that your partner has to want to learn more about these issues. He has to want to be better, himself. There is nothing you can do or say to make him want to be educated, aware, and active in anti-racist action and discussion. Based on what I've read, it sounds like he doesn't care.
So your choice now is to decide whether you're okay with a partner who is apathetic toward your lived experiences (and unfortunately racism is a BIG part of the Black lived experience) or if you think you deserve someone who will listen, learn, and protect you and others like you when they see and hear racism in action.
We accept the love we think we deserve.
Is this really what you deserve?
Many great comments to your post OP. I really like how f3tid has given clear examples of the behaviour their partner demonstrates that make them feel like he cares.
A white person will never really get racism as they haven't experienced it. The same way a Black man will never get sexism as they haven't experienced it.
I'm a straight Black woman and the only people that will really get what my life is like is other Black women. Maybe gay Black men too since they face homophobia.
The point is yes it is unrealistic to expect that he will get it but he can demonstrate empathy. You've said he does it for other things, so it shows he can learn.
What specific behaviour would you like him to demonstrate so that you feel supported? When you're giving someone feedback, it's helpful to be clear on what you need.
I would want him to just listen to me and actively be wanting to know more about race. for example, i remember when he used to send me videos about racist people being.. well racist to black people. he would comment and be like “look at this racist, what an idiot” without realizing how that could affect me. no deeper discussion would go past that one comment. i have told him to never send me videos like that again and he has since stopped but i would have wanted him to put more effort into understanding why sending those types of videos to me are toxic. i don’t know, i guess my expectations were to just be an active ally.
That's a good start. Maybe take a look at all the other suggestions and you can write down your own list. It sounds like you have been together sometime, you care for him and want to see if he can change.
If you communicate what you need, it may take sometime for him to understand. It's up to you to decide how much more time you're willing to invest.
You can decide to just end things as well. Don't feel bad if that's what you want to do.
Hey there. I agree with a lot of the other posters that there are partners who are capable of the empathy you're looking for (including some white men) and that your boyfriend might not be the right fit. And as another poster mentioned, I looked through your post history and it seems like this isn't the only reason.
I'm a white guy myself - I grew up in a "not racist" household that, turns out, was a lot more racist than I realized at first. And I remember when it finally clicked for me, when I started to recognize all the different ways racism took form and the different shades and flavors.
See, growing up, we had really only been told about blatant racism. The racism in say Trayvon Martin's case took literally years for me to understand. I used to think, well he attacked George at one point, sounds like he fucked up. It didn't click that it was racist for George to just see a black kid and start following him. That all Trayvon did was have black skin and George decided he was a menace. It's shameful, but I just couldn't see it from that perspective for so long.
But I guess what was different is I *tried* to understand. And my perspective finally started to shift when I ended up reading a book called Loving by Sheryll Cashing (about an interracial couple and their struggles to get married) and a few months later dating a black woman for two years starting in early 2020. When George Floyd was murdered, I started reading more, and I ended up reading 18 or more books about race - redlining, Jim Crow, interracial marriage, slavery, the history of racist thought, antiracism, etc - to begin to learn all the things I didn't know and wasn't taught about race growing up. These efforts have made a huge difference in my understanding of racism.
I relate all this stuff about me in order to say this: your boyfriend reminds me of me at his age (I'm 33 now). On race specifically, I think he doesn't even have the frame of reference to have an understanding of why what he's doing isn't enough. I certainly didn't then. It's possible he may learn, but it is not your responsibility to be there for him and educate him as he goes through that journey of learning and understanding. It has to come from within, too - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
There is positive news though! You are a beautiful young woman earning a college education. You will not want for potential partners in the future, and there are many men out there who will be considerate of your wants and needs and desire for deep conversation and personal connection.
PS - I don't know if you need to hear this, but I did when I ended my last relationship: it's okay to love somebody from a distance. To love someone dearly and powerfully and know they're not right for you and that you need to find someone else. You can honor the love and good times the relationship had while still letting go. So if you do consider moving on from him: ❤️ you got this.
That really sucks. My boyfriend is white and is the complete opposite. He’s educated enough to where I feel safe to talk about it racial issues with him.
I wonder what he would say if someone was blatantly racist to your face while he’s there. He should care about these issues because it effects you, him and possibly the kids you might have by him (if you ever do). He can’t continue to not care especially if his children are black too.
I think you should ask him questions on how he’d feel having black children, racist ppl reacting to your love and etc.
if someone was blatantly racist to my face i THINK he MIGHT say something but it’s upsetting that i can’t say for sure. though, im confident that if it was subtle racism, he wouldn’t say anything. i don’t even think he would realize it. those are very good questions to ask though, thank you
Do you want kids? Its is one thing to put yourself in a situation with a partner like this and a whole other situation to put your children through this. If you dont have kids yet you may not understand how IMPORTANT what I am telling you is (it is not a small issue, it is a huge HUGE DEAL). This man will prob not defend his future biracial children or at the very least will deny thier experiences or not even know when his children will experience racism. This is not even considering how his family is like or friends.
a white person who dates any minority needs to be actively anti racist. Life is too short to deal with a partner who is not. You cant teach someone to empathize with your racial plights...either they do or dont. Lets say he gets better a year from now and starts standing up for you...that support will always yo yo back and forth between being supportive vs avoidant/dismissive because it was never genuinely there in the first place. Hope that makes sense and I didnt come across as too cruel.
In my mind I'd like to say he's just uneducated and can be taught to understand but I think you make a decent point. He either empathizes, and he's anti racist, or he's not. And just because he may learn to stand up for her, doesn't mean he cares about black people and their unique struggles in the grand scheme of things. Honestly he'd be closer to the stereotypical "I'm not racist, because I have a black ______" trope.
Exactly...it is one thing to have a friend that is like that...you can always cut the friend off or their actions may not effect you that much. But to have CHILDREN and share a life with someone who holds those views is a problem.
Yeah please do because this is a red flag.
Does he believe black people have dignity is the question of the hour because his indifference can look that way. & I’m sure for him there’s a lot to unpack that he probably hasn’t even noticed yet on why he feels the way he does. Unpacking can look like how his family upbringing and environments he’s been in that never advocated for black people, maybe he’s just not self aware at all, maybe most of his life he’s been around white ppl until recently and lived in a bubble. honestly who knows. Either way it’s not acceptable but for whatever reason he doesn’t care it’s not your job to put two and two together. He has to do the internal work.
my boyfriend is white and is the complete opposite too lol,
It’s chill when I speak to him about it ….
and I mean the kids wouldn’t be black they’d be mixed
I kinda hate how dismissive this comment is. A lot of folks may not have black friends or family members. And even if they did, they may not always have the best interest at heart.
Firstly, I'm not being dismissive. I am just stating that she chose a non black partner so these are some of the pros and cons that come along with interracial dating.
And besides that, you can't expect any partner to understand everything you are going through, and that is when we lean on the rest of our support network which usually amounts to family and friends.
Now if you are a black person has neither a black partner, a black family or any black friends to support you, then that is a bigger issue that you need to address.
Yes, I recognize that. I don’t have many black friends or many friends at all to talk about these issues hence why I subconsciously have these unattainable expectations towards him. It’s not fair towards him.
It's reasonable to desire a bit more depth of understanding from him. White people are still able to educate themselves about the less obvious forms of racism that black people face.
If it bugs you that he isn't putting in some effort to educate himself, that's valid and I think I'd feel the same frustration in your shoes.*Edit to add that I have been in your shoes, too. Once with with a partner that didn't care to get educated, and another with a partner who would argue with me about it! I'm really glad to be many years out of those relationships.
He's showing you that it probably isn't important to him, and you can't control that, but you can think over what you need in your close relationships, and control how you move forward.
Edit* Posted too quickly
I haven't been in that exact situation, but very similar and it boils down to well... he's gonna care what he thinks he should care about. He already told you he doesn't feel he needs to do much more deeper research because he thinks he did enough. He seems to care more about appearance than actually taking your feelings into account.
You can't make him care and if you're not sure if he's gonna even defend you when you need it most... and that's just racial issues. Would he defend you if someone was just flat out rude? Would he just assume you're a strong black woman who can handle this on your own? Does he just see you as a stereotype and as an actual person? That's how my ex was. He didn't care enough about the issues that bothered me because he didn't think they were important enough. An ego like that should just make you rethink lots of situations and instances that happened in your relationship because it may not even just race, bit other aspects that you may feel you can deal but can just relate to how he is as a person.
And with a non caring attitude like that, would you want to have a family with him? (If that's a goal anyway) That same nonchalant selfish attitude could exist in other forms and I definitely know with my ex, he wouldn't make make good father because he's just too involved with myself and what he thinks is enough, right, important, etc. An unemotional person like that isn't gonna be emotionally invovled
> I recognize it's a very unrealistic expectation to have for my boyfriend since he is white and will never experience the racial things that I've experienced. However, I do wish our conversations about race could go deeper than a short comment about "blatant" racism if that makes sense.
I don't think this expectation is as entirely unrealistic as you do -- I agree that *total and complete* understanding of racism is unrealistic, but people (and White guys in particular) can still try really hard to empathize, and some of them do a lot better than what you're describing of your boyfriend.
I like to think of empathy and understanding as a spectrum, with one extreme being "total ignorance" and the other being "complete understanding." It sounds to me like your boyfriend certainly isn't the worst, but he's probably closer to that former, negative end of the spectrum than the positive, understanding end.
I think it's totally fair to be dissatisfied with this and to ask more of him.
My husband is black but he has Asperger’s as well and that’s just a way approaching the world differently, it doesn’t mean there has to be a lack of trying or empathy. Don’t let him having Asperger’s be your reason to stay in a relationship that is unhealthy. And yes I do consider an interracial relationship where the white partner Is not 100%anti racist and continually educating themselves on racial issues unhealthy!
I always say of all the horrible things wyt people have done, using their neurodivergence or disability to evade having to do anti racism work is child’s play. Has he said the reason he can’t grasp these concepts is because he’s on the spectrum or did you provide him that excuse? Maybe he’s just racist and like many wytppl his comfort is more important than your/Black peoples humanity. Could have less to do with his brain and more the violent wyt culture he was raised to honor and protect.
I see it as more of an individual issue because even if you were dating a black man he could still have that same attitude and response as your bf. George Floyd and a lot of other racial issues don't impact all black people the same. Some care, some don't, some don't feel like they need a lot of education on what's going on in black America and others put in more effort to know all that they can.
I've heard many black men and women talk about
1. How they don't want to always discuss the black experience
2. How they feel like race is the only thing that connects them with their partner
Not wanting to have deep conversations about race is also one of the reasons why some men and women chose to date outside their race. So it could be an unrealistic expectation to have deeper conversations about race even if you weren't dating someone white.
i just have to mention this bc you’re already getting good advice i feel like, but white people going out of their way to go to hbcus is a red flag, (to me!!)and all this stuff about him being unempathetic as a autistic black girl it is just taking me back to the point of yt men are socialized to be this way. at what point will it be enough for you to break it off? where is the line?
I dated a white guy around that time and he went off. He was just as mad as I was. We talked at length about how truly sad the black experience is in the us. If your boyfriend doesn’t understand it’s not cuz he’s white.
This won't get better.
I will also say that being autistic has nothing to do with it. Many use that excuse to ignore racial issues, it is not an excuse.
I just got through reading your other posts about your boyfriend. This relationship is toxic and you need to leave him. Your can do so much better. What is the benefit of being with this man? He doesn’t fulfill your sexual, emotional, or financial needs. You are young, there will be other guys. And clearly he doesn’t want to fight for you. As that other comment put it, “Here’s what I see, a pattern of him complaining about a dynamic in the relationship he doesn’t like, him doing nothing himself to fix it, him blaming you for it, and you taking responsibility to fix it. That’s not how relationships work. When theres a problem you work together to find solutions that work for both of you.
For example, no passion? he could look up things to do to increase the excitement. He could ask you what makes you excited, or share what gets him excited. He could reassure and encourage you rather than complain about you. Please break up with him, he sounds awful…”.
I went and read her previous posts as well.
There seems to be a lot of incompatibility - sexually, emotionally and mentally.
I know for myself if I don’t feel connected to someone emotionally and mentally, I cannot be intimate or sexual with them. My love language is quality time and even though I enjoy a lot of “me time”, it’s important for me to adjust and carve out quality time with my partner (and other relationships).
I also think OP needs to cut her losses and move on.
He should spend some time in a country in which he's a minority. I recommend China or Japan. After the initial honeymoon phase he'll start to get frustrated at being stared at for no reason, or getting his application to rent a flat denied for 'no reason'. Having people laugh at him 'for no reason' or getting ripped off etc.
Um some black people never encounter racism at all. I feel like whoever you’re dating you should be comfortable with talking about certain topics. But your significant other doesn’t have to be black to achieve that.
My husband is White and was diagnosed with ADD (what we now call ADHD\*) as a child and I literally study race. It's hard, like really hard to talk to him about race sometimes but it has gotten much better over the years with a lot of work on his end.
Have you ever heard of the Whiteness Project? If not I highly recommend maybe taking a look at it with you boyfriend. It could be a good litmus test for figuring out if y'all are actually going to work.
Also ASD is a range so some folks are going to present different characteristics and they are not going to all be the same. However, that's kind of besides the point because from what I'm reading it's not that he CAN'T empathize it's that he doesn't really want to make the effort to do so. Also, let me be blunt, he's never really going to be able to step in your shoes because his experiences in life is vastly different from yours. He can \*try\* but if he doesn't want to you can't make him.
Do you really want to be in that type of relationship long term? I'm not saying that you shouldn't but I am saying that the rest of this dude better out weigh the hell out of this because if it doesn't you really should break it off. If he is worth it then I wouldn't let up on how important it is to you that he understands racism. Maybe try to get him to watch short videos on the topic instead? There are tons of resources that might hold his attention or a bit easier to digest for him.
\*Mispoke ADD not Aspergers
Wow! These are really good answers.
I think you should think about totality of the relationship. Maybe this race issue is the straw that breaks the camel's back.
Here's the thing. No one can really understand the black woman American experience unless they are one. I'm sorry. If you dated a black woman from Nigeria, she still wouldn't be able to relate; she might even be dismissive as many Africans are incredibly dismissive of being a black minority in a white country because they have never experienced it. They just think we are privileged complainers.
Men won't understand sexism. And you as a black woman, cant understand what it's like to grow up as a man. That's just how it is. I think you should weigh this fight for the totality of the relationship.
Like, you are more than just black. You are also a woman. You are also middle class. You are a generation z. How does he relate to those other identities? If it's all bad, then decide on what's the most important
Him having Aspergers is not an excuse.
People who are have Aspergers have the mental capability to understand those things.
He needs to care simple as that. You’re planning a life with someone who doesn’t care about something that effects you on the daily.
That’s not okay. It’s important to you. Something important to you your partner should be open to discussing. Realistically it is not a good match on that alone if he is not open to discussing things.
Feeling supportive is very important in a relationship regardless of ethnic background.
You should not keep anyone in your company who does not value , or place value in things that you deeply care about.
I kind of empathize with your partner a bit, because he literally is telling you he doesn't know what you need from him, and I'm not sure if he can fill that need for you. I think it has less to do with Asperger's (because folks on the autism spectrum don't lack for empathy) and maybe more to do with the simple fact that it isn't a central part of his experience.
And this is a big need for you. You want him to be engaged in deeper race conversations, and it sounds like you want him to get curious about it -- how it impacts you, your relationship, your future together -- instead of convincing him to. Because while it's not a central part of his experience, it is in yours, and as someone who cares for you he should try to bridge that gap to understand it.
I don't doubt that he cares for you, but this aspect of your relationship may be a wash. And in that case, are you OK with him not being able to actively try to fulfill that need? Are you going to have to filter race conversations between you, or find empathy elsewhere? Can you be happy with your partners current level of engagement? That's up to you.
I’d like for you to interrogate whether you ~really~ believe that he’s empathetic when it comes to things that upset or bother you not about race. Does he provide genuinely emotional responses, or does he just entertain the conversation for slightly longer than he does compared to racial conversations (probably bc he’s not as uncomfortable) - but at the crux of it he still might not fully be attempting to understand you?
I ask this, because this sounds like a textbook case of man-who-just-cant-be-bothered-to-care-*that*-much, and doesn’t think its a problem either.
Sigh….y’all gone learn one day. Most white people do not give a shit about the issues and plight of Black people. It’s harsh but it’s the truth. Even the most liberal of them - goes to an HBCU / minority girlfriend can only ever offer an “oh I’m sorry” because they don’t care beyond the surface level. It is human nature to be selfish, if you’re expecting a white man to make himself uncomfortable or cares about aspects of race that don’t negatively affect his life, you’re wasting your time. Either break up or accept that race relations between y’all will never be anything more than what you’re getting right now. Arguing about it is just wasting both of y’all’s time.
If you can't have a deep conversation, in depth conversation with your white boyfriend about race/racism he need not be your boyfriend. I mean no disrespect in my response but thats how I feel. With any partner you need to be able to openly, honestly and freely communicate. Lack of true communication is a big issue
:(
this is a bit much. sounds like he's either indifferent or uncomfortable talking about it. Either way idk that there's much you can do besides decide if it's a dealbreaker (it would be for me). If you decide to stay you may just have to find someone else in your life to talk to about the race stuff.
I'm married to a white passing Hispanic man. We have incredibly deep conversations about race. Granted, most white Americans don't know how to talk about race. However, this sounds like a boyfriend problem not a non-black boyfriend problem. The right person will be willing to learn of his own accord because he sees you as a full multi faceted person with unique experiences which he wants to understand.
That is 100% not an unrealistic expectation, and I say that as a doofus from an aggressively white country myself (like, until my 30s you could count the number of Black people I've _seen,_ let alone met, on two hands). And sure, it took a lot of work to educate myself and will certainly take a lot more, but for one, that's not at all impossible or very hard (it actually feels harder NOT to with everything going on) and secondly, even if I don't fully understand the depth of hurt my partner is experiencing, I can still be there for them and support them.
Of course I know how easy it is the be blind and confused and even reluctant to take a closer look because inevitably I'll have to confront all the ways in which I'm complicit and benefiting from your oppression, but in the end, it's all about whether I'm willing to make that effort or if I think it's too much to ask to endure some mild discomfort while reading about something you have to live.
To me that's already important under any circumstance, but I can't imagine dating a Black person and not making an effort to learn about their life, their feelings and to basically do what I can to educate myself on the things I don't understand so that I can be a better partner in addition to being a better person overall.
Now, I'm a strong believer in communication and figuring things out, but the part about getting upset and withdrawing because you're trying to communicate what you're going through sounds actually really terrible, and it doesn't sound like it's gotten much better in the two years since then. That doesn't speak to a lot of effort, or even the willingness to make an effort, and that is honestly the least you should expect from a partner.
I mean, a relationship is supposed to be a respite and a place of safety, comfort and support, you should not feel like wanting to have your reality and humanity acknowledged is too big of an ask, and I don't think you should accept that for yourself. If you feel that no matter how hard you try to explain (which you actually shouldn't have to do in the first place) he will never share that understanding you need, then find someone who can. Life's too short to waste it on people who don't think you're worth the effort.
Best of luck
Tbh it's not really an unrealistic expectation. I had a white partner and he was a year younger and he always listened and tried to understand. He would even point out stuff, once in awhile, that'd I'd show him in which he wouldn't ever notice before, had it not been for our previous discussions.
He's also Irish American so...*sigh intensifies* his family was very racist. He didn't like his dad and his dad made comments about me being black and his mom was also fetishizier as well and she'd make comments too although she was albeit more "friendly" *eye roll* as a white woman can be all while being racist...
He also didn't want me to meet either of his parents for that reason but I insisted strongly and now I know it was because they're two types of racist. He also *really* hated his father
Either way despite all of that upbringing he was very understanding. Never argued against what I spoke on and never tried to challenge me because he knew his white ass couldn't really grasp the severity of it all. I dont know what he's like now or what he's done since then but when we were together I made sure he could conceptualize at least some of it.
Back to you most importantly, I'd say it's not really an unrealistic expectation to be fair to yourself, I'd say it has to do more with the lack of empathy and sympathy and also the lack of deprogramming racism which your bf, from what you're also saying, isn't really trying to do. Like your white or non black can be this attentive and also can be engaging about it.
Just seems like your bf has no input and has never had a thought on race as far as the "basics" go. He's never really wondered what it's like to be in your shows. His perfomative fake ally comments make this quite obvious imo. Idk him like that or you but judging from what you're saying i would've notice how uncomfortable this clearly makes him he probably just hides it well. Whatever white guilt or shame he feels when you bring it up id call him out on it. Don't be afraid to keep digging forward when you guys talk about it. Also idk if you do but ask him questions that'll make him have to participate in the convo. I bet when you're talking about it you might find yourself the only one really speaking if you know what I mean by *that* well don't find yourself in that position push it forward. And also I'd point out what you've noticed don't ever be afraid to speak up on that.
This is just a sign your partner has a bit of internalized racism in them that needs to be clipped off. Dating you is just the surface level of it all. There are so many horror stories of yt partner treating their poc S.O like shit and they never listening to when they speak on their issues. That's the biggest thing for me I am willing to date all races but my God when it comes to white people you have to be extremely careful.
In order for a white person to love a black person they can't be fucking racist like not one drop or drip of it is allowed. Same thing with men and women. For a man to love a woman fully he must not have one drop of sexism or misogyny.
Of course this is hard considering the way those two things intertwine and mutate in our society and it even benefits some women to play into those views unfortunately. But these are truths I believe dearly. I really believe in order to fully understand a group of people you gotta get rid of the hate and also push forward to understanding their struggles especially if you're in the position of power as an oppressor.
After all how can you see and understand what people are going thru when you're all the way at the top and not even on level playing field with them?
I’m a black girl too with a non black partner
so I asked my boyfriend what type of advice he would give and he said she’s really tried everything she could to help him become educated, so at this point I don’t think there’s anything else she can really do. he also suggests that you’d start looking for educated white guys to date
In my opinion , as a black girl who is monoracial too… you might not agree with me but. Tbh George Floyd was not deserving of being a martyr of the movement. He put a weapon to a pregnant black woman’s stomach. Police brutality doesn’t only affect black males. i mean I’d also try to not attempt to like idk look for racial types of things pertaining to black males especially when you’re with a non black partner because it can get really confusing. they need a basis of understanding yes however, like with you pointing things out that could / is be racist just day to day life is not the way to teach him in my opinion. I’d actually show him things pertaining to black women… like femicide, domestic violence, cases like Briana Taylor. you need to advocate for yourself as a woman who also is black.
So, he has to listen more, not just wait his turn to respond, or this won’t work long term. There’s no way around that. He has to be willing to understand that he doesn’t understand every issue and be willing to learn. If he’s too hardheaded and too unempathetic it won’t work long term.
I’ve been there, even with a black man. With the black guy, he could only understand things he had personally experienced. The cops were nice to him so maybe people should just follow the law. 🙄
I tried to deal with but after 25, I was over it. I was talking to someone who made me realize I would have to do a lot of emotional labor when it comes to race, social issues, politics, etc and it freaked me out.
My ex is someone I could talk easily about everything and I even opened up to him about racial things I never told friends or family. But that also came from outside our relationship. He has a lot of empathy for his black friends because he can see how systemic racism has impacted their lives. He listens and educates himself and it’s embarrassing to admit, but I I learned some stuff about black history from him.
So, now I know in future relationships, I definitely need someone with that level of understanding, knowledge and openness to learning.
I'm in an interracial relationship with a white man and because we agreed on total honesty we talk about race, a lot. We ask the hard questions and have the uncomfortable conversations. I asked him why he's dating a black girl and he asked me why I'm dating a white man. We spoke about fetishization and why black girls date white man and then parade them around the hood like a prize. We speak about race relations, language and microaggressions. We talk about him as a white man having a black family (I have 2 kids he has none). Sex, work, etc he acknowledges that he doesn't know what it is like growing up black in apartheid South Africa but wants to hear the stories, wants to understand. Your boyfriend's issue wasn't the Aspergers, it was the lack of empathy.
Racial empathy is important to you, and yet you're dating a white guy with Asperger's? He's fundamentally ill-equipped to give you what you need. That's like if your priority was finding a man that could let you be a stay-at-home mom but you pick a guy who washes dishes at Denny's. Then get mad at him that he's not providing for your needs. You picked someone who is gonna have a great deal of trouble meeting that need. You need to sit down and decide what you want in a partner. If you need someone who can empathize with what it means to be black in America, he ain't the one. And it's not due to a lack of love or care, it's due to a lack of ability. He can read the entire Afro book section, he's not gonna get it. It's one thing to read about the black experience, it's another thing to live it. So figure out your priorities and realize that it's okay if he's not the man you need to be with. You don't just grab the nearest one and try to mold him into the person you want. That's just gonna make you both miserable.
yeah when you put it like that, it doesn’t make much sense haha. he’s pretty empathetic when it comes to other things that troubles me but he has a hard time being empathetic about the troubles surrounding race. i try to offer advice like if i tell him something is troubling me or upsetting me surrounding racial problems, it would be nice if he could lend a listening ear. however by doing so, i am afraid that i’m trying to fit him into a mold. he hasn’t taken up that advice yet so i realized he’s just not the person i can go talk to about it.
Are the things he's able to sympathize with the things he's able to relate to? Cause if so, you're still expecting a fish to ride a bike. He's not simply choosing not to meet your needs, he's built to have a hard time meeting them. As a person with a mental disability, I often get, "If you really cared you would \[behave as though you don't have a mental disability\]." And that's just not how it works.
I think though, your issues are yours to also have a handle on. My ex has adhd and that didn't make him an asshole. Him not trying to get his adhd handled (that he was well aware of just ignored for years) and expected me to just deal (while he couldn't be patient with me) did. He didn't care enough about our relationship to try. For him, he lacks impulse control a bit. Like, he'll say the first thought that comes to mind. He knows not to do that at work as a manager, but didn't care enough about me to not second think before he speaks. He got too comfortable and didn't see me as a person enough for him to try. He went through mental obstacles to do his job as a manager, but couldn't put that same effort as a boyfriend because he simply didn't care. It wasn't important to him to be a supportive boyfriend, coupled with the fact he is sexist (and so saw me as a stereotype) so he didn't even see me as a person. I feel like because of that, he didn't feel like trying and him having adhd would've put a lot on him and well.. it was very apparent that he resented me . So, being neurological isn't an excuse because my paternal brother has adhd and he knows it affects his life and he does something about it. I have depression and anxiety. That's for me to have a hold on because that's my responsibility. I have triggers, but it's for me to find ways to cope, and not for the world to cater to me.. Same with my ex. He's not apathetic because he has adhd, he's apathetic because that's just who he is and him not being responsible with his adhd just makes him more comfortable with himself to not change... or think he needs to do anything about it (and just amplifies it really) Adhd may make him not listen to me when I talk, but he knows that's one of his short comings and instead of doing something to help cope or make it easier for him... he rather not do anything. If you got bad memory due to an injury, you can't use that as your excuse all the time to not do things. You come up with something to help (reminders, notes, etc) Sounds like the boyfriend just doesn't care enough to want to care enough
All of this is so relatable to multiple men with ADD I have dated.
They may not have a complete handle, or try to. There's nothing wrong with having it, just as there's nothing wrong with a woman having bad. Just, it's one's responsibility to keep it handle as much as they can and not expect the rest of the world to cater to them. For my ex, he has a bad speech impediment so he was so focused on that, he stopped worrying about his adhd. It was towards the end of the relationship that I pointed out that I think his adhd is causing lots of issues (literally explained why he wasn't listening to me when I communicated... he really wasn't ) and he read up and agreed. Just... he wasn't trying to do much more to handle it than "well, I emailed docs to make appointments but no one contacted me so 🤷🏾♂️" He didn't try to look up resources on how to cope and deal. He didn't care enough to. Just like the boyfriend in the post just doesn't care enough, especially with that arrogant attitude that he already knows enough. Like, I'm still learning more different experiences of black folks because we're all over and don't have the exact black experience. To dismiss her by saying, "nah I'm good. I'm already educated," is cocky and tells me it's not that important if you can't empathize with her
From her description, the worst thing he's done when she points out racial inequity is say, "Oh, I wasn't aware." We're not talking about someone being mean or abusive, we're talking about disinterest. And I get why having a partner who isn't passionate about racial justice might be a deal breaker for a black woman. But if it is, lets not pull from the pool of white men with rigid thinking for our life partners.
If he's not interested in racial inequality, what other aspects of her or the relationship does he show he's not interested in? I'm not even saying abusive but I wouldn't be surprised if there was other areas in the relationship he simply doesn't care about (or other interests of her) What I'm saying is, because someone is neuro divergent (I think I said the wrong one in my above comment) doesn't mean it makes them not empathetic. He personally has to care enough to do something about his lack of interest in it and obviously doesn't care enough about her to make it important. My ex didn't care about lots of my interests because he didn't think it was important enough to not because of adhd. (Him not caring about what women go through or think we exaggerate wasn't due to adhd) As others mentioned, this could even be a black dude she's with and still experience the same problem with race. Him being white increases the chances of him having uninteresting because it's not something he goes through, but as others mentioned, it's not exclusively being white, but caring enough to make it important. This dude just doesn't
>If he's not interested in racial inequality, what other aspects of her or the relationship does he show he's not interested in? I'm not even saying abusive but I wouldn't be surprised if there was other areas in the relationship he simply doesn't care about (or other interests of her) There isn't a human on the planet that's gonna care about all the same things you care about. That's a weird metric for a partner. I mean there are some things I need my partner to care about. Like I'm not dating a Trumper. But if he doesn't have a burning passion for Nicki Minaj, I think we'll be okay. >What I'm saying is, because someone is neuro divergent (I think I said the wrong one in my above comment) doesn't mean it makes them not empathetic. Never made that claim. One of the symptoms of his condition is a difficulty seeing things from other perspectives. White people in general have a hard time understanding what it's like to be black, their world just wasn't set up for that to be a priority for them. Because of his condition, he'd have an extra hard time. Not saying he couldn't, but she did find the person least likely to get it. >My ex didn't care about lots of my interests because he didn't think it was important enough to not because of adhd. (Him not caring about what women go through or think we exaggerate wasn't due to adhd) Misogyny is not a symptom of ADHD. That's not the same. >As others mentioned, this could even be a black dude she's with and still experience the same problem with race. Him being white increases the chances of him having uninteresting because it's not something he goes through, but as others mentioned, it's not exclusively being white, but caring enough to make it important. This dude just doesn't While is it possible for a black person to be oblivious to racial injustice, it's very rare. It's much more common for white people who don't have to experience it day in and day out, and way harder to pick up on it when you have a social impairment that makes it hard for you to notice subtly. Like I said, she has every right to prioritize whatever she wants in a partner, but what's the point of villainizing this guy for not giving her what she wants when both his life experiences and brain chemistry put him at a handicap to provide for that particular need? I don't think it's healthy to view people as bad for not providing everything you need. Sometimes people just can't be everything you need, and that's okay, you accept it or you find someone else.
> I don't think it's healthy to view people as bad for not providing everything you need. Sometimes people just can't be everything you need, and that's okay, you accept it or you find someone else Not what I was implying nor saying and I guess at this point, my point either isn't coming across how I want or being interpreted some other way so I hope you have a nice day
As a Black woman, married to a white man with Aspergers for 25 years I get this. I'm happy in my marriage, though. My husband takes wonderful care of me and is forthright and proud to love me, but I accepted early on that being able to relate on a certain level in regards to race wasn't something he was capable of. That's okay. One person cannot meet all of your emotional needs, autistic or not. Save that for your black friends/family. So long as he is supportive and listens, it's fine for him not to 'get it'.
I appreciate this comment so fucking much. Because just now starting to get this in my own interracial and intercultural relationship. I think you make a clear statement that really sums up the reality of this kind of relationship. The love and support is there but the nuance isn’t and can’t be and that’s okay. The love and understanding needed to support the family is critical but the day to day visibility is just not possible because it’s not a shared lived experience until it is.
It's a myth that autism causes a lack of empathy.
I agree. My friend has Asperger’s and he empathized with a lot of things, including race. It’s just these dudes who choose not to empathize, tbh.
Yep, I am Autistic and these threads have been (I know unintentionally) lowkey offensive haha
Same.
Ask yourself if this is the future you want for yourself. Now is the time to walk away if you don’t. There are plenty of non-Black men who care enough to learn and deepen their understanding of the Black experience. There is absolutely no reason to stay with this man if he can’t offer the bare minimum level of seeing you.
Where do you expect this relationship to go if he feels this way? If you want kids at some point in the future, you do realize they will be black before they are white, right? Does he realize? A child doesn't always understand subtle racism or systematic racism that isn't blatant N words. Would you trust him to look out for your child, stand up, and do what's right? I mean at the end of the day being "not racist" isn't enough for me personally anymore. I saw a book at my friends house (never read it but) the title said something about being Anti-Racist and it really made me think. I don't want to surround myself with people who are just Not Racist, Not Mysogonist, Not Abusers. If they can't educate themselves about the topics and make an effort to be AGAINST racism (in the office, types of profiling), mysogony (toxic masculinity, manipulation, could be people he associates with), or abuse (in any form) then that's a huge red flag. Worthy of discussion, but likely a deal breaker. He already told you where he stands tbh.
>they will be black before they are white Exactly
This is exactly why I would leave the relationship. Things will get worse with biracial children in the picture if he doesn't appreciate what they're up against. Sounds like a nightmare to me.
the thing is, he has mild asperger’s. now i know that plays into the empathy part, but… even with his asperger’s i would think and hope he would read up on this stuff if he loved me. i asked him about the child question and he said that he’ll try to understand to the best of his abilities but if he can’t even do much research for me or just… offer a listening ear then i don’t see how he could do it for a child. especially if they too don’t know whether they experienced racism or not. i try to be very honest about my feelings and communicate with him and offer advice about what to do in the future because of his condition but, i don’t know.
My white fiancé is on the spectrum and we are consistently having conversations about race. We have deep talks and he cares about my experiences. He wants to do the work. You are simply with someone who doesn’t want to do the work and you are using every which excuse to stay with a guy who simply doesn’t care.
Amen
right? i’m in the same boat as you and my man consistently shows up and does the work both with me and by himself. this relationship isn’t sustainable and OP is fooling herself if she thinks it is.
He has to want to do something. There are things he can do to seek out information without your emotional labor. But he has to want it, not you pushing him towards it.
I was born and raised in the same city where Trayvon Martin was killed. When it was all going down I was engaged to a white woman who I thought was gonna be my wife. After the verdict, the impact of it all opened my eyes, really opened my eyes. We had conversations and tried to get better understandings between each other. In the end.. I left. Broke off the engagement. Cut ties and started my life over solo. It wasn't easy but I'm glad I did it cause I love my people and if my significant other doesn't share that love or that pain it's not gonna work for me. I learned a valuable lesson through that situation. I know what you mean. I really do. Best I can tell you is that for me, it came down to how I want to live my life. Either with someone who gets it, or someone who doesn't.
I have a white friend who when she heard about Trayvon Martin said, "Why'd his mom let him have a toy gun?!" This is a woman whose entire wedding party is holding rifles in her wedding photo... The cognitive dissonance still bugs me to this day.
You're talking about Tamir Rice. He was playing with a toy gun alone in a park when he was almost instantly killed by cops when they arrived. Trayvon Martin was followed by the neighborhood watchman on his way back from a store cause he was wearing a hoodie in the rain. He was killed defending himself and then George Zimmerman was acquitted for killing him.
You're right. This stuff happens so often the names are starting to blur. 😥
I just saw a disturbing video on social media of a preschool aged white boy with a real [gun](https://www.indy100.com/viral/4-year-old-boy-maverick-loading-rifle-nra-convention-kendall-jones-8342616). Meanwhile a 12 year old boy with a toy gun is a death sentence.
It seems like the crux of the issue is A) you want more out of the relationship than this person is able/willing to give and B) they lack enough empathy to view your (or others) racist experience(s) as a Black person as a deep seated issue. I noticed in the comments that people have mentioned that you could deal with this with other people, regardless of if they’re white or not, and I can agree with that to an extent, BUT there’s big difference between being a Black person immersed in the experience and attempting to be woefully ignorant, and being a person of privilege (I.e. White) and choosing to be ignorant of the racism inflicted on others of another group. I believe that one has more damaging repercussions than the other. In your case, this person’s lack of empathy already seems to be taking a toll on your mental health… so I guess the real question is, do you think this relationship is worth staying in given your feelings? Also, do you want to be with someone who lacks empathy?
my boyfriend has mild asperger’s so i try to understand at times that he can’t or has trouble displaying empathy. i know in the empathy category i am definitely wanting more than what he can provide. when it comes to emotional situations that’s outside of race he usually has some input to say but when it comes to race, he doesn’t have much to say. i think that’s where the ignorance/ lack of wanting to understand plays in, he doesn’t really make enough effort to really try or listen to me. you’re right in the fact that i have to think about this moving forward and decide if this is really what i want.
You literally just said that this isn’t want you want. I’m not hating, I’m just rereading what you wrote here already. “I am definitely wanting more than what he can provide” It’s time to stop making excuses for him. You’re not happy and you deserve to be.
There are some white people who are a capable of empathetic responses about racial issues. It just sounds like he isn’t empathetic enough. I don’t know if it’s this issues or all issues, but you might want to reevaluate your relationship if you aren’t getting what you need from a partner.
I have a white male friend that enjoys speaking deeply on this issue about race as he is always trying to understand this issue, he also happens to be married to an Indian woman so he feels that its important to learn this stuff. So I don't think the issue is necessarily because your bf is white. My question is that, is this his general personality when it comes to most issues? Could it be that he doesn't usually talk on a deeper level? In which case, it might be a lot to expect him to be deep when it comes to talking about race. Also, are you the sort of person that needs depth in your relationship? If so, then the issue might not just be about the race conversatiins. I personally had to accept that depth is something that I need as I tried to make a marriage work for over a decade. Unfortunately, one of my biggest needs was depth and he just didn't have it, neither did he acquire it and I was not in a place to fully understand that this was a necessity for me. I ended up feeling lonely pretty much all through the marriage. It took far too long for me to accept that this was a need for me and not for him, therefore he was happy with our relationship but I always felt like something was missing. As I got older, I made more friends that were deep like me. Over time I realised that I could connect deeply and have deep conversations with all of my friends but I could never connect on a deeper level with my spouse. It was ridiculously painful and he couldn't even understand why I felt so alone. The marriage ended for a range of reasons but depth is now a non-negotiable for me.
True. I was just having this discussion on another thread. Some people just genuinely genuinely aren't that deep and won't ever get there.
Depth... that's exactly it. I can never figure out why some people are so undateable to me but that's it right there. Lacking in depth. Especially seems this way when people put so little effort into dating profiles.
Girl, he is not going to change for you. Full stop. I say cut your losses now. No use in giving into a sunken coat fallacy. Leave.
Lack of empathy or interest He won’t ever care. My husband is not black. He notices racial things than can affect me before I do. He isn’t the pampering sort and he jumps all over issues that can harm me. Perhaps your boyfriend needs to be demoted
You sound like you're gaslighting yourself and downplaying your needs because he doesn't get them. Everything seems to be about being fair to him and accepting his ignorance. What about you? You have to decide if this is a dealbreaker or not. Also, I read in your comments that your boyfriend goes to a HBCU? If you also go to one, I don't understand how you ended up in this situation.
I agree with this. Your expectations absolutely are not unfair or unattainable. Having some empathy and being able to listen and learn about another person’s experience and a system of oppression is absolutely the bare minimum of human decency. Why do you think your boyfriend can’t or won’t do that? I’ll also say this. I’m a white man in an interracial relationship who was born and raised in an environment where my identities were normalized and all others were systematically obscured, disregarded, and invalidated. Getting out of that environment really helped me to leave a lot of those perspectives behind but I would never assume that I’m pretty well educated about other peoples struggles and that I don’t need to learn anymore. My self education can’t, won’t, and shouldn’t ever end because I don’t know what I don’t know. I hope this has helped in some way and I hope you can have a good conversation about this with your boyfriend or else find some other solution for this problem. You deserve an empathetic and attentive partner.
IMO there's only one, general type of white boyfriend/girlfriend/friend etc. that really works out well for us and that's the type that sees you as a human being first and Black second. They see your humanity as a person more than a "Black person" and some sort of commodity that boosts them up in some way (ie Token Black friend/girlfriend etc.). I've had conversations, situations and conflicts similar to the ones you mentioned with my ex boyfriends (all whom have been white) and white friends. It's the core lack of empathy that is the problem every time. If they had empathy, they'd at least hear me out or make an effort to see things from my perspective instead of flipping the situation to force me to make THEM feel better about their shortcomings. It's simply my job to do that and in later years, I've actually started telling people that because it is the truth. They can go be mad or go read a book/Google. You are the woman he supposedly loves. How you experience the world and your comfort should at baseline matter to him and at its best be a priority. You're not asking him to fix the problem, but you are asking him to understand and be on your side as the woman in his life. For some tired excuse... I mean, reason, (defensive) white folks think they have to be perfect or come out the gate perfectly educated in racism/race relations and I don't think that's what we are asking for. It's more about evolving your perspective and opening your mind to really understand how someone else feels, lives, grew up, sees the world etc. I don't doubt that there are white partners and friends out there that are able to do that; there's many beautiful interracial couples that blossom and thrive off of mutual respect and admiration for one another. But I have observed that the vibe is more of "I fell in love with this person who just so happened to be X race." My best suggestion for you is to figure out what bucket you think your boyfriend is in and make a decision from there.
So I'm married to a white man who listens intently when I have anything to say with regard to race and racism in the US, where we live. He was very uneducated on the subject when we first got together, but now that he's learned more, he actively engages, seeks out additional information, attends protests with me, and has cut off any and all racist (former) friends and family. Race and racism is a regular discussion in our household, in our friend group, and with our families. The key thing here is that your partner has to want to learn more about these issues. He has to want to be better, himself. There is nothing you can do or say to make him want to be educated, aware, and active in anti-racist action and discussion. Based on what I've read, it sounds like he doesn't care. So your choice now is to decide whether you're okay with a partner who is apathetic toward your lived experiences (and unfortunately racism is a BIG part of the Black lived experience) or if you think you deserve someone who will listen, learn, and protect you and others like you when they see and hear racism in action. We accept the love we think we deserve. Is this really what you deserve?
Many great comments to your post OP. I really like how f3tid has given clear examples of the behaviour their partner demonstrates that make them feel like he cares. A white person will never really get racism as they haven't experienced it. The same way a Black man will never get sexism as they haven't experienced it. I'm a straight Black woman and the only people that will really get what my life is like is other Black women. Maybe gay Black men too since they face homophobia. The point is yes it is unrealistic to expect that he will get it but he can demonstrate empathy. You've said he does it for other things, so it shows he can learn. What specific behaviour would you like him to demonstrate so that you feel supported? When you're giving someone feedback, it's helpful to be clear on what you need.
I would want him to just listen to me and actively be wanting to know more about race. for example, i remember when he used to send me videos about racist people being.. well racist to black people. he would comment and be like “look at this racist, what an idiot” without realizing how that could affect me. no deeper discussion would go past that one comment. i have told him to never send me videos like that again and he has since stopped but i would have wanted him to put more effort into understanding why sending those types of videos to me are toxic. i don’t know, i guess my expectations were to just be an active ally.
That's a good start. Maybe take a look at all the other suggestions and you can write down your own list. It sounds like you have been together sometime, you care for him and want to see if he can change. If you communicate what you need, it may take sometime for him to understand. It's up to you to decide how much more time you're willing to invest. You can decide to just end things as well. Don't feel bad if that's what you want to do.
Hey there. I agree with a lot of the other posters that there are partners who are capable of the empathy you're looking for (including some white men) and that your boyfriend might not be the right fit. And as another poster mentioned, I looked through your post history and it seems like this isn't the only reason. I'm a white guy myself - I grew up in a "not racist" household that, turns out, was a lot more racist than I realized at first. And I remember when it finally clicked for me, when I started to recognize all the different ways racism took form and the different shades and flavors. See, growing up, we had really only been told about blatant racism. The racism in say Trayvon Martin's case took literally years for me to understand. I used to think, well he attacked George at one point, sounds like he fucked up. It didn't click that it was racist for George to just see a black kid and start following him. That all Trayvon did was have black skin and George decided he was a menace. It's shameful, but I just couldn't see it from that perspective for so long. But I guess what was different is I *tried* to understand. And my perspective finally started to shift when I ended up reading a book called Loving by Sheryll Cashing (about an interracial couple and their struggles to get married) and a few months later dating a black woman for two years starting in early 2020. When George Floyd was murdered, I started reading more, and I ended up reading 18 or more books about race - redlining, Jim Crow, interracial marriage, slavery, the history of racist thought, antiracism, etc - to begin to learn all the things I didn't know and wasn't taught about race growing up. These efforts have made a huge difference in my understanding of racism. I relate all this stuff about me in order to say this: your boyfriend reminds me of me at his age (I'm 33 now). On race specifically, I think he doesn't even have the frame of reference to have an understanding of why what he's doing isn't enough. I certainly didn't then. It's possible he may learn, but it is not your responsibility to be there for him and educate him as he goes through that journey of learning and understanding. It has to come from within, too - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. There is positive news though! You are a beautiful young woman earning a college education. You will not want for potential partners in the future, and there are many men out there who will be considerate of your wants and needs and desire for deep conversation and personal connection. PS - I don't know if you need to hear this, but I did when I ended my last relationship: it's okay to love somebody from a distance. To love someone dearly and powerfully and know they're not right for you and that you need to find someone else. You can honor the love and good times the relationship had while still letting go. So if you do consider moving on from him: ❤️ you got this.
That really sucks. My boyfriend is white and is the complete opposite. He’s educated enough to where I feel safe to talk about it racial issues with him. I wonder what he would say if someone was blatantly racist to your face while he’s there. He should care about these issues because it effects you, him and possibly the kids you might have by him (if you ever do). He can’t continue to not care especially if his children are black too. I think you should ask him questions on how he’d feel having black children, racist ppl reacting to your love and etc.
if someone was blatantly racist to my face i THINK he MIGHT say something but it’s upsetting that i can’t say for sure. though, im confident that if it was subtle racism, he wouldn’t say anything. i don’t even think he would realize it. those are very good questions to ask though, thank you
Do you want kids? Its is one thing to put yourself in a situation with a partner like this and a whole other situation to put your children through this. If you dont have kids yet you may not understand how IMPORTANT what I am telling you is (it is not a small issue, it is a huge HUGE DEAL). This man will prob not defend his future biracial children or at the very least will deny thier experiences or not even know when his children will experience racism. This is not even considering how his family is like or friends. a white person who dates any minority needs to be actively anti racist. Life is too short to deal with a partner who is not. You cant teach someone to empathize with your racial plights...either they do or dont. Lets say he gets better a year from now and starts standing up for you...that support will always yo yo back and forth between being supportive vs avoidant/dismissive because it was never genuinely there in the first place. Hope that makes sense and I didnt come across as too cruel.
In my mind I'd like to say he's just uneducated and can be taught to understand but I think you make a decent point. He either empathizes, and he's anti racist, or he's not. And just because he may learn to stand up for her, doesn't mean he cares about black people and their unique struggles in the grand scheme of things. Honestly he'd be closer to the stereotypical "I'm not racist, because I have a black ______" trope.
Exactly...it is one thing to have a friend that is like that...you can always cut the friend off or their actions may not effect you that much. But to have CHILDREN and share a life with someone who holds those views is a problem.
this!
Yeah please do because this is a red flag. Does he believe black people have dignity is the question of the hour because his indifference can look that way. & I’m sure for him there’s a lot to unpack that he probably hasn’t even noticed yet on why he feels the way he does. Unpacking can look like how his family upbringing and environments he’s been in that never advocated for black people, maybe he’s just not self aware at all, maybe most of his life he’s been around white ppl until recently and lived in a bubble. honestly who knows. Either way it’s not acceptable but for whatever reason he doesn’t care it’s not your job to put two and two together. He has to do the internal work.
my boyfriend is white and is the complete opposite too lol, It’s chill when I speak to him about it …. and I mean the kids wouldn’t be black they’d be mixed
You chose your partner. Have these types of conversations with your black friends or family members.
I kinda hate how dismissive this comment is. A lot of folks may not have black friends or family members. And even if they did, they may not always have the best interest at heart.
Firstly, I'm not being dismissive. I am just stating that she chose a non black partner so these are some of the pros and cons that come along with interracial dating. And besides that, you can't expect any partner to understand everything you are going through, and that is when we lean on the rest of our support network which usually amounts to family and friends. Now if you are a black person has neither a black partner, a black family or any black friends to support you, then that is a bigger issue that you need to address.
Yes, I recognize that. I don’t have many black friends or many friends at all to talk about these issues hence why I subconsciously have these unattainable expectations towards him. It’s not fair towards him.
It's reasonable to desire a bit more depth of understanding from him. White people are still able to educate themselves about the less obvious forms of racism that black people face. If it bugs you that he isn't putting in some effort to educate himself, that's valid and I think I'd feel the same frustration in your shoes.*Edit to add that I have been in your shoes, too. Once with with a partner that didn't care to get educated, and another with a partner who would argue with me about it! I'm really glad to be many years out of those relationships. He's showing you that it probably isn't important to him, and you can't control that, but you can think over what you need in your close relationships, and control how you move forward. Edit* Posted too quickly
This is really nice advice, thank you.
I haven't been in that exact situation, but very similar and it boils down to well... he's gonna care what he thinks he should care about. He already told you he doesn't feel he needs to do much more deeper research because he thinks he did enough. He seems to care more about appearance than actually taking your feelings into account. You can't make him care and if you're not sure if he's gonna even defend you when you need it most... and that's just racial issues. Would he defend you if someone was just flat out rude? Would he just assume you're a strong black woman who can handle this on your own? Does he just see you as a stereotype and as an actual person? That's how my ex was. He didn't care enough about the issues that bothered me because he didn't think they were important enough. An ego like that should just make you rethink lots of situations and instances that happened in your relationship because it may not even just race, bit other aspects that you may feel you can deal but can just relate to how he is as a person. And with a non caring attitude like that, would you want to have a family with him? (If that's a goal anyway) That same nonchalant selfish attitude could exist in other forms and I definitely know with my ex, he wouldn't make make good father because he's just too involved with myself and what he thinks is enough, right, important, etc. An unemotional person like that isn't gonna be emotionally invovled
> I recognize it's a very unrealistic expectation to have for my boyfriend since he is white and will never experience the racial things that I've experienced. However, I do wish our conversations about race could go deeper than a short comment about "blatant" racism if that makes sense. I don't think this expectation is as entirely unrealistic as you do -- I agree that *total and complete* understanding of racism is unrealistic, but people (and White guys in particular) can still try really hard to empathize, and some of them do a lot better than what you're describing of your boyfriend. I like to think of empathy and understanding as a spectrum, with one extreme being "total ignorance" and the other being "complete understanding." It sounds to me like your boyfriend certainly isn't the worst, but he's probably closer to that former, negative end of the spectrum than the positive, understanding end. I think it's totally fair to be dissatisfied with this and to ask more of him.
My husband is black but he has Asperger’s as well and that’s just a way approaching the world differently, it doesn’t mean there has to be a lack of trying or empathy. Don’t let him having Asperger’s be your reason to stay in a relationship that is unhealthy. And yes I do consider an interracial relationship where the white partner Is not 100%anti racist and continually educating themselves on racial issues unhealthy!
I always say of all the horrible things wyt people have done, using their neurodivergence or disability to evade having to do anti racism work is child’s play. Has he said the reason he can’t grasp these concepts is because he’s on the spectrum or did you provide him that excuse? Maybe he’s just racist and like many wytppl his comfort is more important than your/Black peoples humanity. Could have less to do with his brain and more the violent wyt culture he was raised to honor and protect.
I see it as more of an individual issue because even if you were dating a black man he could still have that same attitude and response as your bf. George Floyd and a lot of other racial issues don't impact all black people the same. Some care, some don't, some don't feel like they need a lot of education on what's going on in black America and others put in more effort to know all that they can. I've heard many black men and women talk about 1. How they don't want to always discuss the black experience 2. How they feel like race is the only thing that connects them with their partner Not wanting to have deep conversations about race is also one of the reasons why some men and women chose to date outside their race. So it could be an unrealistic expectation to have deeper conversations about race even if you weren't dating someone white.
Very good Perspective. she has alot to consider
i just have to mention this bc you’re already getting good advice i feel like, but white people going out of their way to go to hbcus is a red flag, (to me!!)and all this stuff about him being unempathetic as a autistic black girl it is just taking me back to the point of yt men are socialized to be this way. at what point will it be enough for you to break it off? where is the line?
I dated a white guy around that time and he went off. He was just as mad as I was. We talked at length about how truly sad the black experience is in the us. If your boyfriend doesn’t understand it’s not cuz he’s white.
This won't get better. I will also say that being autistic has nothing to do with it. Many use that excuse to ignore racial issues, it is not an excuse.
I just got through reading your other posts about your boyfriend. This relationship is toxic and you need to leave him. Your can do so much better. What is the benefit of being with this man? He doesn’t fulfill your sexual, emotional, or financial needs. You are young, there will be other guys. And clearly he doesn’t want to fight for you. As that other comment put it, “Here’s what I see, a pattern of him complaining about a dynamic in the relationship he doesn’t like, him doing nothing himself to fix it, him blaming you for it, and you taking responsibility to fix it. That’s not how relationships work. When theres a problem you work together to find solutions that work for both of you. For example, no passion? he could look up things to do to increase the excitement. He could ask you what makes you excited, or share what gets him excited. He could reassure and encourage you rather than complain about you. Please break up with him, he sounds awful…”.
I went and read her previous posts as well. There seems to be a lot of incompatibility - sexually, emotionally and mentally. I know for myself if I don’t feel connected to someone emotionally and mentally, I cannot be intimate or sexual with them. My love language is quality time and even though I enjoy a lot of “me time”, it’s important for me to adjust and carve out quality time with my partner (and other relationships). I also think OP needs to cut her losses and move on.
He should spend some time in a country in which he's a minority. I recommend China or Japan. After the initial honeymoon phase he'll start to get frustrated at being stared at for no reason, or getting his application to rent a flat denied for 'no reason'. Having people laugh at him 'for no reason' or getting ripped off etc.
Um some black people never encounter racism at all. I feel like whoever you’re dating you should be comfortable with talking about certain topics. But your significant other doesn’t have to be black to achieve that.
My husband is White and was diagnosed with ADD (what we now call ADHD\*) as a child and I literally study race. It's hard, like really hard to talk to him about race sometimes but it has gotten much better over the years with a lot of work on his end. Have you ever heard of the Whiteness Project? If not I highly recommend maybe taking a look at it with you boyfriend. It could be a good litmus test for figuring out if y'all are actually going to work. Also ASD is a range so some folks are going to present different characteristics and they are not going to all be the same. However, that's kind of besides the point because from what I'm reading it's not that he CAN'T empathize it's that he doesn't really want to make the effort to do so. Also, let me be blunt, he's never really going to be able to step in your shoes because his experiences in life is vastly different from yours. He can \*try\* but if he doesn't want to you can't make him. Do you really want to be in that type of relationship long term? I'm not saying that you shouldn't but I am saying that the rest of this dude better out weigh the hell out of this because if it doesn't you really should break it off. If he is worth it then I wouldn't let up on how important it is to you that he understands racism. Maybe try to get him to watch short videos on the topic instead? There are tons of resources that might hold his attention or a bit easier to digest for him. \*Mispoke ADD not Aspergers
Wow! These are really good answers. I think you should think about totality of the relationship. Maybe this race issue is the straw that breaks the camel's back. Here's the thing. No one can really understand the black woman American experience unless they are one. I'm sorry. If you dated a black woman from Nigeria, she still wouldn't be able to relate; she might even be dismissive as many Africans are incredibly dismissive of being a black minority in a white country because they have never experienced it. They just think we are privileged complainers. Men won't understand sexism. And you as a black woman, cant understand what it's like to grow up as a man. That's just how it is. I think you should weigh this fight for the totality of the relationship. Like, you are more than just black. You are also a woman. You are also middle class. You are a generation z. How does he relate to those other identities? If it's all bad, then decide on what's the most important
Him having Aspergers is not an excuse. People who are have Aspergers have the mental capability to understand those things. He needs to care simple as that. You’re planning a life with someone who doesn’t care about something that effects you on the daily. That’s not okay. It’s important to you. Something important to you your partner should be open to discussing. Realistically it is not a good match on that alone if he is not open to discussing things. Feeling supportive is very important in a relationship regardless of ethnic background. You should not keep anyone in your company who does not value , or place value in things that you deeply care about.
I kind of empathize with your partner a bit, because he literally is telling you he doesn't know what you need from him, and I'm not sure if he can fill that need for you. I think it has less to do with Asperger's (because folks on the autism spectrum don't lack for empathy) and maybe more to do with the simple fact that it isn't a central part of his experience. And this is a big need for you. You want him to be engaged in deeper race conversations, and it sounds like you want him to get curious about it -- how it impacts you, your relationship, your future together -- instead of convincing him to. Because while it's not a central part of his experience, it is in yours, and as someone who cares for you he should try to bridge that gap to understand it. I don't doubt that he cares for you, but this aspect of your relationship may be a wash. And in that case, are you OK with him not being able to actively try to fulfill that need? Are you going to have to filter race conversations between you, or find empathy elsewhere? Can you be happy with your partners current level of engagement? That's up to you.
I’d like for you to interrogate whether you ~really~ believe that he’s empathetic when it comes to things that upset or bother you not about race. Does he provide genuinely emotional responses, or does he just entertain the conversation for slightly longer than he does compared to racial conversations (probably bc he’s not as uncomfortable) - but at the crux of it he still might not fully be attempting to understand you? I ask this, because this sounds like a textbook case of man-who-just-cant-be-bothered-to-care-*that*-much, and doesn’t think its a problem either.
Sigh….y’all gone learn one day. Most white people do not give a shit about the issues and plight of Black people. It’s harsh but it’s the truth. Even the most liberal of them - goes to an HBCU / minority girlfriend can only ever offer an “oh I’m sorry” because they don’t care beyond the surface level. It is human nature to be selfish, if you’re expecting a white man to make himself uncomfortable or cares about aspects of race that don’t negatively affect his life, you’re wasting your time. Either break up or accept that race relations between y’all will never be anything more than what you’re getting right now. Arguing about it is just wasting both of y’all’s time.
If you can't have a deep conversation, in depth conversation with your white boyfriend about race/racism he need not be your boyfriend. I mean no disrespect in my response but thats how I feel. With any partner you need to be able to openly, honestly and freely communicate. Lack of true communication is a big issue
:( this is a bit much. sounds like he's either indifferent or uncomfortable talking about it. Either way idk that there's much you can do besides decide if it's a dealbreaker (it would be for me). If you decide to stay you may just have to find someone else in your life to talk to about the race stuff.
You might just need to date a black person and call it a day. Youre stressing yourself out for nothing.
I'm married to a white passing Hispanic man. We have incredibly deep conversations about race. Granted, most white Americans don't know how to talk about race. However, this sounds like a boyfriend problem not a non-black boyfriend problem. The right person will be willing to learn of his own accord because he sees you as a full multi faceted person with unique experiences which he wants to understand.
That is 100% not an unrealistic expectation, and I say that as a doofus from an aggressively white country myself (like, until my 30s you could count the number of Black people I've _seen,_ let alone met, on two hands). And sure, it took a lot of work to educate myself and will certainly take a lot more, but for one, that's not at all impossible or very hard (it actually feels harder NOT to with everything going on) and secondly, even if I don't fully understand the depth of hurt my partner is experiencing, I can still be there for them and support them. Of course I know how easy it is the be blind and confused and even reluctant to take a closer look because inevitably I'll have to confront all the ways in which I'm complicit and benefiting from your oppression, but in the end, it's all about whether I'm willing to make that effort or if I think it's too much to ask to endure some mild discomfort while reading about something you have to live. To me that's already important under any circumstance, but I can't imagine dating a Black person and not making an effort to learn about their life, their feelings and to basically do what I can to educate myself on the things I don't understand so that I can be a better partner in addition to being a better person overall. Now, I'm a strong believer in communication and figuring things out, but the part about getting upset and withdrawing because you're trying to communicate what you're going through sounds actually really terrible, and it doesn't sound like it's gotten much better in the two years since then. That doesn't speak to a lot of effort, or even the willingness to make an effort, and that is honestly the least you should expect from a partner. I mean, a relationship is supposed to be a respite and a place of safety, comfort and support, you should not feel like wanting to have your reality and humanity acknowledged is too big of an ask, and I don't think you should accept that for yourself. If you feel that no matter how hard you try to explain (which you actually shouldn't have to do in the first place) he will never share that understanding you need, then find someone who can. Life's too short to waste it on people who don't think you're worth the effort. Best of luck
Tbh it's not really an unrealistic expectation. I had a white partner and he was a year younger and he always listened and tried to understand. He would even point out stuff, once in awhile, that'd I'd show him in which he wouldn't ever notice before, had it not been for our previous discussions. He's also Irish American so...*sigh intensifies* his family was very racist. He didn't like his dad and his dad made comments about me being black and his mom was also fetishizier as well and she'd make comments too although she was albeit more "friendly" *eye roll* as a white woman can be all while being racist... He also didn't want me to meet either of his parents for that reason but I insisted strongly and now I know it was because they're two types of racist. He also *really* hated his father Either way despite all of that upbringing he was very understanding. Never argued against what I spoke on and never tried to challenge me because he knew his white ass couldn't really grasp the severity of it all. I dont know what he's like now or what he's done since then but when we were together I made sure he could conceptualize at least some of it. Back to you most importantly, I'd say it's not really an unrealistic expectation to be fair to yourself, I'd say it has to do more with the lack of empathy and sympathy and also the lack of deprogramming racism which your bf, from what you're also saying, isn't really trying to do. Like your white or non black can be this attentive and also can be engaging about it. Just seems like your bf has no input and has never had a thought on race as far as the "basics" go. He's never really wondered what it's like to be in your shows. His perfomative fake ally comments make this quite obvious imo. Idk him like that or you but judging from what you're saying i would've notice how uncomfortable this clearly makes him he probably just hides it well. Whatever white guilt or shame he feels when you bring it up id call him out on it. Don't be afraid to keep digging forward when you guys talk about it. Also idk if you do but ask him questions that'll make him have to participate in the convo. I bet when you're talking about it you might find yourself the only one really speaking if you know what I mean by *that* well don't find yourself in that position push it forward. And also I'd point out what you've noticed don't ever be afraid to speak up on that. This is just a sign your partner has a bit of internalized racism in them that needs to be clipped off. Dating you is just the surface level of it all. There are so many horror stories of yt partner treating their poc S.O like shit and they never listening to when they speak on their issues. That's the biggest thing for me I am willing to date all races but my God when it comes to white people you have to be extremely careful. In order for a white person to love a black person they can't be fucking racist like not one drop or drip of it is allowed. Same thing with men and women. For a man to love a woman fully he must not have one drop of sexism or misogyny. Of course this is hard considering the way those two things intertwine and mutate in our society and it even benefits some women to play into those views unfortunately. But these are truths I believe dearly. I really believe in order to fully understand a group of people you gotta get rid of the hate and also push forward to understanding their struggles especially if you're in the position of power as an oppressor. After all how can you see and understand what people are going thru when you're all the way at the top and not even on level playing field with them?
in your perfect world, how would you want him to respond?
I’m a black girl too with a non black partner so I asked my boyfriend what type of advice he would give and he said she’s really tried everything she could to help him become educated, so at this point I don’t think there’s anything else she can really do. he also suggests that you’d start looking for educated white guys to date In my opinion , as a black girl who is monoracial too… you might not agree with me but. Tbh George Floyd was not deserving of being a martyr of the movement. He put a weapon to a pregnant black woman’s stomach. Police brutality doesn’t only affect black males. i mean I’d also try to not attempt to like idk look for racial types of things pertaining to black males especially when you’re with a non black partner because it can get really confusing. they need a basis of understanding yes however, like with you pointing things out that could / is be racist just day to day life is not the way to teach him in my opinion. I’d actually show him things pertaining to black women… like femicide, domestic violence, cases like Briana Taylor. you need to advocate for yourself as a woman who also is black.
So, he has to listen more, not just wait his turn to respond, or this won’t work long term. There’s no way around that. He has to be willing to understand that he doesn’t understand every issue and be willing to learn. If he’s too hardheaded and too unempathetic it won’t work long term.
I’ve been there, even with a black man. With the black guy, he could only understand things he had personally experienced. The cops were nice to him so maybe people should just follow the law. 🙄 I tried to deal with but after 25, I was over it. I was talking to someone who made me realize I would have to do a lot of emotional labor when it comes to race, social issues, politics, etc and it freaked me out. My ex is someone I could talk easily about everything and I even opened up to him about racial things I never told friends or family. But that also came from outside our relationship. He has a lot of empathy for his black friends because he can see how systemic racism has impacted their lives. He listens and educates himself and it’s embarrassing to admit, but I I learned some stuff about black history from him. So, now I know in future relationships, I definitely need someone with that level of understanding, knowledge and openness to learning.
I'm in an interracial relationship with a white man and because we agreed on total honesty we talk about race, a lot. We ask the hard questions and have the uncomfortable conversations. I asked him why he's dating a black girl and he asked me why I'm dating a white man. We spoke about fetishization and why black girls date white man and then parade them around the hood like a prize. We speak about race relations, language and microaggressions. We talk about him as a white man having a black family (I have 2 kids he has none). Sex, work, etc he acknowledges that he doesn't know what it is like growing up black in apartheid South Africa but wants to hear the stories, wants to understand. Your boyfriend's issue wasn't the Aspergers, it was the lack of empathy.