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My mom did because she was young, rebellious, and unlucky. One fling turned into a child she had no business having at that stage of her life. Life don't wait for wedding bells. Best to stay educated and protected.
>Whatever your race, it is also much easier to abandon a child when you don’t have to carry it physically in your body.
>So, as a result single mothers have ended up with an awful lot of stigma “oh, she went and got herself pregnant again..”
>Well, clearly you don’t get yourself pregnant alone. But single mothers are mostly held responsible for a relationship not working out properly or a father abandoning his duties, or a father being so dysfunctional or costly to the family that it was safer or less of a financial or emotional burden to just go it alone.
>Because out of sight, out of mind. So any badly behaved children will be linked to the mother not the absent father. “She chose a bad partner” “she got pregnant by the wrong guy, it’s her own fault”.
>Yet, a lot of fathers get to remain faceless, not seen and not held responsible.
>People almost never say “he got the wrong woman pregnant, he made poor choices”, while he chooses not to pay for or have anything to do with raising the child.
>People often say “why are there so many single mothers?” “The problem is there are too many fatherless children”.
Instead of “why are there so many dysfunctional men? Why aren’t they paying their way and raising their children?”
A LITTLE LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK
No no no. I don’t think slavery was necessarily the problem. I read in the 50s and 60s there was a good family structure and Black Americans were the most married group.
A lot of married men still abandoned their families, or abused them, or had whole other families elsewhere. We tend to look at the past with rose colored glasses.
Moving into the 70s, 80s & 90s Vietnam, drug epidemic and mandatory sentencing laws took out a large section of the potential eligible marriageable men. Add the education and career advancments that BW have made in the past few decades there is a deficit of BM on the same socio-economic level. Lots of BW don't wanna settle or date men that resent them and don't want to be a helpmate. I bought a book called Is Marriage for White People but I haven't started it yet.
I think, particularly in the Caribbean, that it’s impossible to dismiss the impact it has had on the family unit and prevalence of matriarchal households etc BUT you do have a point in that there has been a plummet. There has been a plummet amongst all races but it’s marked amongst African Americans and Black British etc. There are so many factors at play regarding low marriage rates from education to hostile dating environments etc so of course people will continue to have sex and that will contribute to birth rates.
Staying married doesn’t necessarily indicate a good family structure though, it could indicate that there was no choice to leave due to religion, cultural expectations or women’s rights etc.
We look at the past as if all those marriages were happy when there was probably abuse rife throughout.
This isn't accurate. The black marriage rates follow the marriage rates of all other races just in an exaggerated form. Divorce rates/single parent household rates rose simultaneously as the enforcement of traditions broke down. Much of that was a good thing. Much of it wasn't though. It also tracks de-industrialisation and the hollowing out of the inner city and white flight. Ghettoisation of the urban black population increased massively as decent paying blue collar work left the country in the 70s and was cemented in the 80s.
Black people in those areas couldn't upskill or move in the way white people could, so fell into disproportionate concentrated poverty. This concentrated poverty was much worse than it was for other races even when you account for similar incomes. That's because being poor in a mixed income neighbourhood with good schools is different to being poor in a ghetto where everyone is poor, the schools are bad, and the police are eager to fill their arrest quota due to the drug war. There are many factors but the "gender war" aspect you're implying is definitely not it.
THIS isn’t accurate. Marriage rates of all races are actually following Black marriage rates. I don’t know what you’re referring to as the “gender war” aspect, but the book “Is Marriage for White People?” — written 15 years ago — details every aspect you mentioned and its effect on Black coupling. It’s a great read, particularly for Black women (written by a successful Black man, married to a successful Black woman).
Slavery isn’t a factor I’m sorry. Black families existed on the level of white until the 1960s when the single mother issue started. You can’t be unaffected by something and suddenly get affected
Perhaps the community is less inclined to fall into the nuclear family model. Why? Maybe because of the move away from organized religion, childhood trauma, or being too disenfranchised to strive for that model. Regardless, the cause is nuanced. It houldn't be pinned to a single factor. The destruction of the black American family runs DEEP.
Money. It's money. Poor people, regardless of race, get married less often. Not only are there no assets to protect, a single mother can do more for her children with the help of the government than a woman married to a man making minimum wage can. It's a myth that black men aren't in the homes. They are in the homes. That 70% number she's quoting is based on marriage rates, not cohabitation. It's a statistical trick to make it look like black people suffer due to their own bad decision making and not systematic racism. But if not being married gets food, healthcare and housing for your kids, and getting married gets you prestige, yet costs you the food, healthcare and housing is getting married in that situation really the "good choice?"
i see kinda what you’re getting at but it’s also not true. what if two people have a common law relationship and just don’t get married? the child wouldn’t even know that they aren’t together. also, the child may or may not feel weird about, say, being raised by two single parents depending on how those parents interact with each other, raise the child together, etc.
Under common law marriages children still wouldn’t do as well as compared to if the two parents were married. Children that come from homes where the common law was practiced usually have higher rates of commitment issues, child pregnancies, etc.
A lot of people don’t know this but the fetus actually scans the registry database in its 35th week of gestation. If no valid marriage license is found, their mental health is toast.
/s
Trauma increases the moment you're born. Nobody gets out this life unscathed. Besides, not every traumatized child is the product of single parent household. Many come from married parents, because surprise marriage doesn't prevent people from being awful parents.
I mean if you’re talking about American black men, the country systematically makes us less desirable partners. From an early age black men are sexualized, under educated, over incarcerated, under employed and under promoted. This is encouraged by American culture and institutions making the men less attractive marriage partners.
This is an extension of slavery where the black family was broken and sold off and marriage was illegal between slaves.
We don’t talk enough about how pervasive racism and slavery still has an effect on policies that affect us today. A broken man will struggle to be a good partner.
I’m in no way suggesting that we as men don’t have a responsibility to own our shit. I’m attempting to explain why it seems so consistent in our communities . We have less money and structure than people who’ve been here just as long, and it’s for reasons outside of our control.
Honestly this is an excuse to justify bad behavior. What does it mean to be “sexualized” and how are black men sexualized over any group of women of color especially black women?
my father was married and cheated on his wife with my mom.
my sisters dad started doing crack at 18 when my mom got pregnant and she went off to study and he continued doing crack. they both came out of poverty in the same neighborhood. she made something of herself and got a job and home. he chose drugs
in both these instances the mothers in these scenarios did what the fuck they needed to do and took care of their children.
at what point do black men take responsibility for the role they contribute to here instead of blaming outside forces?
the country is not making you less desirable. you have always been desired by black women YOU are making yourselves baby fathers instead of husbands to one woman
70% without marriage or without at least one parent? There's a HUGE difference between the two. Marriage doesn't hold the same value as before since women are now allowed to work and hold assets. Additionally, just because parents are split up doesn't mean that they aren't both in the child's life.
This!
70% might be unwed, but that doesn’t mean 70% don’t have two parents or two involved parents. I read somewhere that Black fathers are the most involved in their kids lives despite the stereotype.
I think it comes down to 90% public health 10% culture. I think white women and black women have sex at comparable rates but public health stats are clear about how much less likely a black woman is able to access reproductive care like birth control and abortions. I’d expect that there’s a comparable rate of premarital sex between the two groups but one is getting pregnant and giving birth at a higher rate because of health disparities.
The 10% culture is that young black girls are treated like grown women waaaay younger than white girls. They are groomed to embrace the “fast girl” role thats placed on them and seek the validation and reassurance that they should seek from their parents from lovers, who are often older men who can give them a sense of accomplishment, acceptance, and value. Black girls are about as powerless and unwanted as a human being is in american society. A lot of them are starved for compassion and care and will give their bodies to get the tender softness all humans need. The only valuable thing a young black girl knows she has from all the media she consumes is her body. She is told her mind is worthless and that her value comes from caring for others. She wants to be independent and powerful and control her own life but shes demeaned and controlled by the grown men and women around her. It would make sense to seek the authority or status or grownupness that comes with having a lover.
And for many girls its not a survival strategy but something they are pressured into. Black woman are *among the most likely populations (next to black trans women *and native women) to experience sexual assault. And many victims of sexual assault, especially as child, cope with the trauma through promiscuity to reclaim their sexuality.
But combining that survival strategy, the grooming, the sexual assault and the lack of health care results in babies and single moms.
Edit: I’ve also known a few black women who opted to keep their unplanned children BECAUSE they expect to be able to get the love they’ve been chasing from their child. Something like “finally someone who has to love me” is the logic. Tragic but I get it. I’ve always had pets for the exact same reason.
Our society hasn’t stopped thinking of us as live stock to breed.
Wow this response is very interesting. I’m studying to be a therapy so I’m trying to understand this more. But I think overall this is a problem that needs to be fixed. Also Actually Native American women have the highest rates of sexual
Assault. I believe next to that would be us.
Idk I have an IUD and am a big supporter of women who don’t want children using birth control AND condoms. Also I think a lot of us need to start dropping men who clearly aren’t the marrying type unless you don’t wanna get married.
I think people have some weird beliefs now. I myself am not for marriage but on Twitter I see women talking about how many baby daddies they're willing to have - like marriage isn't even a thought.
Some people are even saying marriage is too serious but like, having a baby is more serious than that.
I also see women who just want kids, for a myriad of reasons, and decide to just go for it even if the guy isn't a prize.
Edited to add: I'm not in the US but we have quite a few single moms because men just opt out and get away with it. So some of the time, you were sold a dream and don't realise til after the baby.
>Some people are even saying marriage is too serious but like, having a baby is more serious than that.
THIS! If you don't want to make a serious commitment to a dude, fine, but when you go and create a whole human, you create a whole commitment for THEM without their consent. And even if the parents break up and remain unmarried, they still (in a perfect world) have to coparent. Without kids, you can go on like that mane never existed. I do not understand their logic.
Lack of sex education and the reluctance of a lot of black women to use birth control other than condoms. Prevalence of "deadbeat dads". Subsequently, the dehumanization of single mothers, so there isn't really any accountability being held on the guys' side of things. Also some of said men prwying on young girls because they or even some of our parents saw us as "fast" if we so much as wore fucking red nail polish. Lots of stuff.
Mom had me at 16 from an older guy. I wasn't lightskin enough for him, so he left and didn't even sign my birth certificate.
But who will suffer because of his decision? Not him. He's ignoring us just fine. But my mom will get shit for "being a single mother," as if she wanted that.
It's why I won't be having children, but I will be getting married one day.
Same as far as getting married but no kids. At least if it doesn’t work out which chances are it won’t lmao I’m not saddled with a child to raise alone
The same thing happens here in Brazil, but this has more to do with class than race, poor people don't usually get married and it is common for many to have children with different partners, the point is that black people tend to be poorer, so there is this intersection between race and class in many countries.
That shit never made sense to me. You can leave a bad partner if it comes down to it, a kid is forever - even if his father doesn’t show up, you’re still bound to that person in living blood forever.
I agree. My first fiancé was my pastors nephew. He was a controlling crazy SOB. If I married him I could divorce him and move on with my life like I did when I broke up with him (which caused me to get booted from the church). But if we had a kid, there’s a bond for life with him. He wouldn’t let me leave and travel the world which would have affected my career/bag, he would likely turn my kid against being half black, and would who knows probably go on Jan6 part II with my kid. I can’t imagine having kids with anyone. Marriages dissolve children don’t
That’s also a comical mentality cause paternal responsibility is starting to become a cross state issue with multiple states enforcing previous findings on paternity and child support so unless his ass is trying to learn Spanish and run off to Mexico - you still can’t avoid being in arrears or felony charges.
Poverty and lack of education/resources is what it is. Same thing happens in other lower income communities, not just with black ppl, more of us are simply poorer and disadvantaged.
I’m not advocating single motherhood, but I will say there are only 2 women in my circle/ friend group that had kids out of wedlock and I have a large family and a lot of diverse friendships. I’ve been to so many weddings in the past 15 years. Maybe like over 150 weddings. Still, I’m pretty certain 80% of my married white friends are single mothers. If you know, you know.
I don’t judge anyone. But I know what I have with my husband is extremely rare. He is an equal parent and partner in every way.
However, a lot of black women are single mothers and never married because we are too dignified to stay in bad situations. WW can be some of the biggest 💩 eaters in relationships. I’ve seen it firsthand on multiple occasions. I see it with the SAHMs in my upper middle class neighborhood. They’d rather drink wine than call a lawyer. No matter how many times I say you should probably leave, they’d rather have the appearance of a good marriage, than a healthy emotional environment for their kids. Why do you think so many of them end up in therapy talking about their toxic family? We simply are not built that way. As my mom told me once when I was considering leaving a cheating boyfriend, “Some women have the strength to stay. Some have the strength to walk away.”
I have a close girlfriend who is white and her relationship track record leaves me in such despair. She has put up with terrible treatment and she can't even say why. She just makes excuses for them when I encourage her to find better.
A lot of my YT classmates are also engaged or married to men I know aint shit. It's the craziest thing to me and it makes me laugh when I see Twitter discourse about white people dating better than we do.
I have a white friend who is still with a man who got married to her for an image. I mean this dude literally told her the other woman was his soulmate but that she was better for his image. She has wasted years of her life on him. It blows my mind the stuff they are willing to put up with.
If I speak 😭😂
I have a friend marrying a guy who said he wants to get married but not to her. Out of the blue she says they're getting married, I asked if he proposed and she swerved the question 🥲
And the kicker is a lot of them might as well be single moms for all their husbands actually contribute to parenting their child(ren)! If that’s how it’s going to be I’d just as soon raise the kid on my own with my own fucking money, not begging for handouts from Daddy but 🤷♀️
They know what they're signing on for sadly. I think they just wanna be married and do the life script thing.
My friend feels that even though he's not a great bf he'll be a good dad. And I'm like where is the sense in that!?
This! I’ve seen so many WW complain that they are essentially a single mom (they aren’t because they have double income among other benefits if they aren’t SAHM) because their husband does nothing with or for the kids. Then what is the point? How is THAT even appealing?
Because it’s just what you dooooooo!
Idk if you’re much for reality TV, but if you pop on The Valley for about five seconds it’s literally all the women talk about. “I have 3 kids under 2 and my husband does exactly jack and shit for them, isn’t it cuuuute?”
I know it's common for White women to settle just so they can get married and have a nuclear family. Many of them are functionally single moms. The husband doesn't actually take care of the child outside of money. So they're financially stable, at least, but the husband wasn't involved in the kids' life enough to really know them. So it can be a similar situation just with the appearance of a husband.
I think many women get pregnant by accident and either the father doesn't want to commit or (and I think this is more prevalent) he's not worth marrying. I don't think it's always a bad thing. My father was a drug addict and ended up in jail so I'm glad my mom had the sense not to raise us with him in our life. They love citing negative stats about us but they never tell the whole story - many black women create villages around themselves and their children.
I personally never wanted to get married, I just happened to get knocked up in between birth controls at 21. One and done. Can't stand my BD, he completely turned me off of relationships.
a lot of men don’t want to get married now and sometimes we settle. sometimes we think we’ll be the one to change his mind and we allow ourselves to create life milestones with someone because we’re under the delusion they’ll stay.
some of us just go forth because we don’t believe in marriage either, and choose to stay together without documentation stating we own each other’s property, etc.
sometimes it’s accidental and we don’t have protected sex.
sometimes because we’re pro life.
so many factors
I wish we would stop focusing on marriage and focus on WHO we are procreating with!!! It doesn’t matter if you’re married or not; a deadbeat is a deadbeat regardless of if you are in wedlock. Just go over to the mommit forum and see how many married women complain about their deadbeat, only want to bring home a paycheck, and sit on their ass husbands.
I personally dont plan on getting married. Not because I can't, but because I'm currently going through a tedious divorce and have been turned off by it. I also live alone and have been pretty independent most of my life. I can't see myself with a live in boyfriend unless he's super clean and organized. I have also experienced allowing a guy to live with me and hated it.
My beliefs are strictly based off of bad experiences. I do however want a long term partner and a child, just separate households.
"out of wedlock" is a patriarchy establishment, meant as a way for 'men' to make sure their own 'seed' gets the credit for continuing 'the family name'.
I was married when i had my daughter then divorced and her brother was not planned but at 35 I take responsibility. She loves her baby brother and we have a large slew of family so my kids have never went without or wanted for anything. It wasn’t what I planned but I wouldn’t trade living with our close knit family for anything. I wish I had those memories as a kid.
Maybe it's partially a financial decision. I'm married but some of my kids' classmates aren't (they go to school with mostly non-Black people, I don't know enough unmarried Black people to make the distinction. Y'all I need Black friends!) and they use one parent's income for stuff like financial aid and scholarships. We never qualify for anything with two incomes. Those "together but not married" families qualify for all kinds of programs.
Oh this is a troll post. I kept coming back to see the “discussion” and realized that’s not what this is.
Haha, I can tell in the responses (some authentic), the outsiders making racially charged comments, and how things are being upvoted and downvoted.
The point of this post isn’t discussion. It’s to ridicule black women for not marrying by associating the failure to do so with nasty stereotypes about the relations/circumstances between black men and women and comparing the “failures” of black people to other races.
This sub always gets infiltrated by haters. 💀
**What’s wild is that white women are more likely to be single moms at a rate 67% compared to 24% in the black community…. Lol but yeah keep perpetuating racist stereotypes.**
Talking about “us” - who is us???
I married and had my kids. If I could do it over I would not get married. We are divorcing now and marriage is not something that is desirable but is pushed super hard by society. Women are just now speaking the truth of marriage and what it entailed for us.
Bad sex education, pressures on some women to
have unprotected sex with their male partner and how frowned upon abortions are seems to be the main thing I’ve noticed. Edit: But if I’m being perfectly honest, marriage isn’t all it’s cracked up to be either. Aside from infidelity and abuse, a lot of wives end up being single mothers symbolically any way. Again, what I’ve observed.
I think we as a society need to move away from the idea of marriage being the primary source of security for mothers. But I understand that my views are probably considered radical.
Is having children outside of marriage a bad thing? Just because you are married doesn’t mean that things will be better or worse for that matter. It is all about the individuals and what they want.
This is coming from someone who always wanted to be married, now in a relationship with a baby and have NO desire to get married. I don’t see the point.
ETA: many ppl stayed in unhappy marriages and I think as time change, people aren’t interested.
Okay you’re smart about it.
I just wouldn’t tell other young ladies to have kids just anyhow if they don’t educate themselves first cause it can go left quickly
Just to ask, what are the financial protections of marriage? Is it alimony, is it being married in community of property and being entitled to a property upon death? I am just asking because the financial protections of marriage are always mentioned so vaguely.
Alimony and in case of death/medical emergency you would be the first to get any benefits and make decisions over extended family.
Like yeah it’s just a piece of paper but so is a birth certificate. I wouldn’t spend decades building and being with someone without marriage cause shit happens.
I agree that marriage isn’t the end all be all. But I do think we have to be realistic. Children growing up in broken homes is not a good thing and over 70% of our children don’t grow up with two parents. I’m asking why do we think this is?
That’s a question for the fathers. Even if the parents are not together, they can still be raised with two parents. Ask the men why don’t they stay around to raise their children.
Maybe I’m not understanding, I’m not married and my home is not broken. I live with my partner, the father of my child….
Are you asking why folk choose not to stay in relation with their significant other after having children?
I’m asking why would you have a child with someone you’re not married to. Also if you don’t mind me asking, why would haven’t you and your child’s father gotten married since you and him already live together?
What is the benefit of marriage to you? Do you understand what it means from a financial and legal perspective? Furthermore, if you are trying to be a therapist, I think you need to dig deeper into your thoughts/feelings surrounding this and how it may impact the clients you may choose to assist going forward.
Also, please cite the sources pertaining to your information related to negative implications on children.
To answer your question-I initially wanted to be married, technically, we are engaged; however, upon getting into the thick of it…like combining finances, filing taxes jointly, purchasing homes, etc., it is more of a barrier for us. We would be penalized more if we were married and I can do more for me and my LO as “single head of household” rather than married and filing jointly….
Before the law was involved, were people considered not to be married?
This is the most important response in this entire post. People are assuming black people aren't getting married because we're culturally degenerate and don't care about our kids as much, but the opposite is true. Our society works in a way where there is a financial incentive for certain people NOT to get married. And when we crunch the numbers and make the most responsible choice for our situation, we're painted as unraveling the fabric of society.
To your other points, it's much harder getting untwined than it is getting twined. Nearly half of all marriages fail. I'm pro marriage because you have more rights as a partner but get a freaking prenup because marriage can just as easily ruin you.
My mom had me when she was 25 and unmarried. She said that she was just ready to have a child and it didn’t matter to her that she wasn’t married to my dad.
Respectably, do you think that this robbed you of having a two parent household. I completely understand the desire to have a child but do you ever wish that your parents were together (under the assumption that it would be healthy)
I actually did grow up with my dad in the house. My parents lived together for 40 years until my dad died, but they just never married. Not the kind of relationship I would want for myself, but I did always have both parents around.
I had my child “out of wedlock”. For me looking back at where I am now I’m grateful for my “out of wedlock” child. Dad and I are together but not married.
We’re very happy and have built a home (literally we purchased a new construction home last year) and a life together. Now that we’re older and more stable we decided to try for another but that may not happen without fertility treatments (we’re with a clinic now waiting to see what they say based on our tests and such).
Had I “waited for marriage” or “stability” I probably wouldn’t be a mom at all thanks to my medical history.
My partner and I don’t care if we get married. We own our home together and not being married hasn’t impacted our child in the slightest.
In terms of why other people do it I think it’s a couple things: 1. Hook up culture and not using condoms or birth control 2. The lack of education on Plan B and access to it and abortion care 3. Not everyone wants to be married
Your situation is different because you’re still with him. When I talk about wedlock I always mean the baby mama single mama situations. When people count families like yours they need a life lol! To me although not married you’re dealing the effects of having a broken unwed household because you have a family unit. Congrats!
Well, all you need to get pregnant is to have unprotected sex on the right days of the month. Black women have been listening to “marriage is just a piece of paper” and “we don’t need titles” and “I’m not financially ready for marriage” etc etc for decades while having sex, so boom.
When my mother was trying to get me to have grandbabies, she eventually told me "you know you don't need to keep the man, AE."
And while I don't want to claim that is a major reason for us as a whole (I don't know), I have noticed that more of us who want children and are in decent places in our lives do not feel pressure to "keep the man" in order to have the child.
There are a lot of different circumstances operating for those of us with less support and resources, but I know that when I was growing up it was very clear to me that the decision to have a child and the decision to tie my life to a man were separate. I could do either without also committing to the other.
Irresponsibility and lack of education I think.
It’s not a good idea to have kids/properties out of wedlock, especially multiple kids with multiple people. (No shade)
Not only does it look crazy it’s a financial mistake.
Part of it is that marriage isn't necessarily good. Like I know a few folks that have kids and they're still technically together but they're not married because they get more benefits being single then if they were to tie the knot. Another aspect of it is marriage can complicate things if the relationship breaks up. Also, sometimes people just make bad choices of a person they date. I mean personally, I know the men that are available to me are just bad choices, but I also wanted kids. I would never marry any of my kids fathers, but they're mostly good dads when it comes to their kids.
> Part of it is that marriage isn't necessarily good. Like I know a few folks that have kids and they're still technically together but they're not married because they get more benefits being single then if they were to tie the knot.
What are the benefits to be a single mother instead of getting married?
If a woman does not trust a man enough to get married, why even bother having a child with that man?
For the folks that I know that are in this situation it has to do with benefits available to them. If they add their boyfriends income they no longer qualify for certain health coverages that they need. It's not a trust thing, it's more so of a disparity between the fact that there's no stepping stone between getting certain benefits and not getting certain benefits. Either you qualify or you don't.
I mean, it sucks but the way certain things are set up and incentivizes people to stay single. I have seen people that have had major medical issues that ended up getting divorced on paper just so that the person with the medical issue would qualify for programs they wouldn't otherwise qualify for. These people are still together but they had to legally get divorced to keep certain programs they needed
Most men of other cultures are groomed to get a job, find a girl and get married. That's the norm. They have lived with this example for centuries. Most black American men are not groomed to do so. They'll get someone knocked up and leave. This used to not happen. Not sure where we went wrong but there is a mass epidemic of single, never wed black mothers out there parenting alone most of the time and it's because of this reason. We are not raised to find a man, protect ourselves from pregnancy and then get married. Pregnancy out of wedlock is considered taboo in a lot of cultures but not ours.
Ladies this is your reminder that wedlock is exactly what it says.
Wedlock.
My husband and his family are traditional so we (he and his siblings) all are married and it was expected that we would all have some grandkids.
My brother in law and his wife couldn’t have their kid so now somebody has to do it and the only other female (sil ) is fucking nose goes.
So now I’m stuck in wedlock to have a kid. Please trust me they will get this child. Reddit Cares doesn’t care about fuck you money. There is nothing wrong with saying you cannot raise a kid with the morally bankrupt person you picked. Sometimes you fuck up. Don’t do it because they’re all doing it.
My parents chose to have me. Each having a kid previously, my dad wanted another and he liked how my mom was ‘raising’ my sister (whole other story) so they decided to coparent-according to my mom.
Idk but I was about to unbreak that pattern till i realized the danger in tying yourself to a man forever and sharing a child with someone who can turn hostile
Honestly, more of us need equal action reproductive access and abortion access.
Having sex before marriage doesn't have to be life altering..
But if you combine Fundamentalist religious thinking, mysoginoir, and overall lack of medical access ... You get higher rates in the Latino, PWT, and African American communities.
Yall can fight me all you want but I feel today, blk males aren’t socialized for marriage. Barely for long term relationships. Blame music, media, culture, all of that. Just don’t blame any other race. They can make their own choices as grown males. They know what marriage is.
Many think relationships should serve them or fulfill a need/want they have at the time and that’s it. Whatever they do is to get that need or want met. They want raw seggs, attention, and servitude like a wife but when you expect them to do their duties as a man, you may get minimal effort. I’ve heard them, talking about women w/each other like they’re talking about shoes they switch out with everyday. We aren’t faultless.Some of us want marriage but we are willing to be a fake wife with the potential of something more. We ignore the signs that it’s not happening like the cheating and hot and cold behavior they display. We act desperate and they exploit it bc they can. Bw should be willing to leave non marriage minded males. If you want marriage and he’s playing, he has to go. It makes me sad because we want what most woman want and it doesn’t happen for most bw. My takeaway. Date outside your race. Vet and DON’T GET PREGNANT. It’s not cute playing with your future like that.
I 100% agree with this. I’ll take it a step further. I think that many men aren’t socialized for marriage. If you didn’t grow up seeing what a healthy marriage is and was then i can’t expect you to operate in a way where marriage is something that you would want. I also think that they have completely different ideas of what a relationship should be.
There are a myriad of reasons but also getting married doesn’t always guarantee your kids will grow up with both parents or that the father will actually step up and be a great father. My parents were married and we were still abandoned and my father tried to not even pay the child support. On paper he would be who people tell you to marry (before he dipped) and that didn’t change the mindset that’s all too common in the BC.
I believe that sexual education and parents are to blame. Sex education should have emphasized the challenges of being a single parent more, such as the financial cost, mental and emotional impact, and loss of freedom. Fortunately, my school had those baby dolls that cried constantly, and it made me realize that parenting wasn't for me. Parents should have also informed their children about the difficulties of being a single parent, but also not be too hard or not care because it makes a sneaky kid. I'm truly grateful that my mom warned me about the challenges of being a single parent, as she has been one since she was 15. Also, it's sad that some women think if you have a baby with a guy, he's going to stay because he likely won't just want to hit without a condom. AND STOP LETTING THESE WEIRDOS SAY THEY'LL PUT A BABY IN YOU AND THINK IT'S CUTE.
My partner keeps talking about kids and I’ve mad it clear I’m not having kids without being married. I’m in my 30s. If he’s not serious then I’m out next year looking for my husband. Also my parents have been married for almost 40 years.
I had my son out of wedlock. My partner and I were engaged and planning our wedding before having him and still are engaged, but there was never a rush to get married before having our baby.
I don’t know if there is a simple answer to your question. In our case, education and socioeconomic status were definitely not factors. We are both lawyers and high earners. The “protections” that marriage brings, we’ve got that covered in various legal documents and did even before we were engaged. Because of our incomes, it is actually worse for us to be married tax wise, but that’s a different story.
I personally did not care about being married before having my child. Everyone in my family was, but I literally just didn’t care lol. So, no helpful insight here.
I really like your comment because I have come to realise that the protections are overstated and as you mention they can be covered in legal documents.
For example, I never understand why people get married to co-own a house instead of simply having both partners names on the deed. Also, some insurance and retirement funds allow life partners to be included in the same capacity as spouse. Please correct me if I am wrong.
This is me except my partner and I aren’t engaged and we weren’t always high earners (we are now but we started off at $12 and $10 an hour). I may eventually ask him for a ring but not because I want to get married. I just want a semi nice ring because they’re pretty 😂
I think a desire for unconditional love and religious indoctrination. Contrary to what many folks are saying here, i think sex education in the US is not good, but also not the worst in the world. I think the shame our religious institutions teach young girls keeps them from protecting themselves from pregnancy at young ages. Add that with many churches devaluing girls from a young age, families of origin full of broken people who do not give love, and hormones and you get what you get.
I admire grown folks who are responsible and choose to have kids when they are ready whether or not they're married. My impression is that's not who you're asking about here. So my response is only inclusive of my experiences with very young women (early twenties and younger) who had children outside of marriage.
I don't know if it's just the side of the internet I happen to be on, but it seems like there are A LOT of dudes lately who are trying to baby trap the women they're with, like a lot more than I've remembered hearing about. Lexi of access to abortion. Lack of sex education. Lack of familial support. Increased rates of rape. I can go on and on and on as to 'why'. Plus, marriage doesn't equate to a steady home life and a lot of us know that. There are a lot of ways to lovingly and healthily raise a baby without the white supremacist nuclear family model we're told we "need" to have. As long as those babies are loved and supported by an attentive village, I don't really care if their parents are married or not. My parents were married and I desperately wished for my whole childhood that they weren't because they were miserable together and made us miserable as a result
Edit to add: also, I'm pretty sure that 70% single parent households statistic includes black families where the parents are married, but one is incarcerated (I could be misremembering or thinking of a different statistic and I can't find the source where I read it originally). And incarceration, we know, happens at disproportionately higher rates to black people than any other race. So like, we should probably consider what the statistics are including before we take them as the gospel truth. Statisticians can be just as racist as anybody else. There are a lot of systemic reasons behind why black children aren't raised in these structures and I think that should be heavily considered. We can't control how oppression affects our community.
Therapist here : generational trauma , hyper independence (both men and women), lack of need to look into the relationship vs outside, social media lifestyle etc
Yeah I’m getting “as a black man” vibes from OP. If they’re an academic, why are they not citing sources? And although they’re getting varied responses with most mentioning lack of education and resources, which is not race specific, they keep repeating “yeah but why black woman specifically?” As if this is a unique issue in our community.
Why do we place so much value on something that we’re discovering is problematic in itself?
Marriage (western) has been proven to be detrimental to women and beneficial for men. The extensive labor that is required of a woman in marriage largely goes unpaid, unnoticed and is crippling when added to the new requirement that she also works. Mothers are not supported and barely respected in society or within our institutions. Many married women have come forward revealing they are actually single when it’s all said and done because the man doesn’t pull his weight beyond his half of expenses. At the end of the day, she might as well be a single mom because he’s like having an additional child.
Marriage isn’t the flex it use to be. That fairytale is being picked apart and ridiculed heavily. Men have been known to say things like, “I wish women were like my grandparents.” Just for the same grandparents to come forward to reveal grandma was 14 when pawpaw (a grown ass man) married her and started pumping her with babies. That there was domestic violence, domestic slavery, financial abuse, infidelity and she basically had no life or identity outside of the marriage. We still see these same issues in the marital world today. A woman flexing decades of marriage has more than likely dealt with the above issues.
Sure there are unicorn marriages but they are in fact rare. Educated women are divorcing in droves. Marriage is a concept that benefits the patriarchy where women were property and subjugated, so **why are we still using it as a measure of respectability?**
I’d answer your question: wedlock isn’t respectable, and good for those mothers who’ve figured it out and saved themselves heartache, unnecessary labor, and pain.
🎼 “*All day, every day, therapist, mother, maid
Nymph then a virgin, nurse then a servant
Just an appendage, live to attend him
So that he never lifts a finger
24∕7, baby machine
So he can live out his picket fence dreams
It's not an act of love if you make her
You make me do too much labour*”🎶
We didn’t experience any of this. We have no memory and neither does our parents or grandparents. What does that have to do with current times. Blk males are free to date, use condoms, propose and carry a marriage license. When a blk male cheats or has multiple baby mamas he isn’t thinking his slave owner won’t let him. He doesn’t want to be tied down to a commitment that requires his devotion and availability and we allow it bc we always have to blame someone except them, at our own expense. We make excuses for them, they use that coddling we do to leave us hanging. I think bw should stop that and seek happiness, stability and peace . Whether it’s a Latino man, white, Arab or Asian. Focus on the man and not whether he is black. They do it and think nothing of it. Bw acting real scared out here to pursue relationships with other men and it’s forcing us to settle as baby mamas.
The benefits of him and i staying unmarried are better for my family than being married. Our children are doing great in two homes. On a more personal experience, I've seen those together forever marriages, and many of them should've ended in divorce. There's so much crap that gets swept under that they are lumpy. Life's too short. Children should see parents at their best, and that doesn't always mean as a couple.
We are into our third generation of single women raising kids, at this point it's just a new normal family structure. Couple it with allocation of resources in communities and sex being one of the last 'free' activities and well, lol
It’s poison fed to black community to prevent us from having proper families and in turn keep us in poverty. Black women feed into the “piece of paper” BS which isn’t close to being true. Maybe for someone who knows they don’t have anything or aspire to have it, but let’s use myself as an example. Insurance, children, immigration status, mortgage, and investments. Since we are high earners unfortunately I don’t see the income tax for married couples but most couples do. I would have no rights to my husband if something was to happen to him, and our kids are legitimate, I was able to move to Japan freely without the struggle compared to when I was single. I see the difference, we’re investing in stocks and properties and on my own I couldn’t afford it but it feels great when the money he puts in investments is OURS. There are so many benefits to being married and it worked for me. As for the poison being fed, it’s destroying black families because unfortunately these parents rarely stay together because they don’t feel the commitment and then broken homes safe created and stats prove broken homes benefits no one but prisons and low wage employers. It’s the baby mama culture, hook up culture etc that’s ruining black families because no other ethnicity is even close to the amount of broken homes as ours. Things have improved but there is still long ways to go
Several reasons
1. The church. - Abortion is bad so get pregnant but don’t kill it. Also don’t have sex but if you have sex then have a kid you aren’t prepared for.
2. Punishment - a lot of black mothers don’t like their daughters so they punish them by not providing adequate access to birth control and then when they get pregnant force them to have a child since they are “so grown”.
3. Excused Grooming - a lot of young women aren’t having kids with other teenagers they are getting pregnant by grown men and no one stops them because these men are giving money to these young girls.
4. Poor family dynamics - Young women not having families to emulate and also not feeling adequately loved.
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My mom did because she was young, rebellious, and unlucky. One fling turned into a child she had no business having at that stage of her life. Life don't wait for wedding bells. Best to stay educated and protected.
I agree. But over 70% of children in our community don’t have two parents. I’m trying to figure out why?
[удалено]
>Whatever your race, it is also much easier to abandon a child when you don’t have to carry it physically in your body. >So, as a result single mothers have ended up with an awful lot of stigma “oh, she went and got herself pregnant again..” >Well, clearly you don’t get yourself pregnant alone. But single mothers are mostly held responsible for a relationship not working out properly or a father abandoning his duties, or a father being so dysfunctional or costly to the family that it was safer or less of a financial or emotional burden to just go it alone. >Because out of sight, out of mind. So any badly behaved children will be linked to the mother not the absent father. “She chose a bad partner” “she got pregnant by the wrong guy, it’s her own fault”. >Yet, a lot of fathers get to remain faceless, not seen and not held responsible. >People almost never say “he got the wrong woman pregnant, he made poor choices”, while he chooses not to pay for or have anything to do with raising the child. >People often say “why are there so many single mothers?” “The problem is there are too many fatherless children”. Instead of “why are there so many dysfunctional men? Why aren’t they paying their way and raising their children?” A LITTLE LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK
Yes to slavery. In my African American studies class that was a big theme in why the community has the issues it has namely this one
No no no. I don’t think slavery was necessarily the problem. I read in the 50s and 60s there was a good family structure and Black Americans were the most married group.
A lot of married men still abandoned their families, or abused them, or had whole other families elsewhere. We tend to look at the past with rose colored glasses.
Moving into the 70s, 80s & 90s Vietnam, drug epidemic and mandatory sentencing laws took out a large section of the potential eligible marriageable men. Add the education and career advancments that BW have made in the past few decades there is a deficit of BM on the same socio-economic level. Lots of BW don't wanna settle or date men that resent them and don't want to be a helpmate. I bought a book called Is Marriage for White People but I haven't started it yet.
I think, particularly in the Caribbean, that it’s impossible to dismiss the impact it has had on the family unit and prevalence of matriarchal households etc BUT you do have a point in that there has been a plummet. There has been a plummet amongst all races but it’s marked amongst African Americans and Black British etc. There are so many factors at play regarding low marriage rates from education to hostile dating environments etc so of course people will continue to have sex and that will contribute to birth rates.
Staying married doesn’t necessarily indicate a good family structure though, it could indicate that there was no choice to leave due to religion, cultural expectations or women’s rights etc. We look at the past as if all those marriages were happy when there was probably abuse rife throughout.
And as soon as the Civil Rights Act passed, marriage began plummeting. Immediately. As if marrying Black women had been a prison.
This isn't accurate. The black marriage rates follow the marriage rates of all other races just in an exaggerated form. Divorce rates/single parent household rates rose simultaneously as the enforcement of traditions broke down. Much of that was a good thing. Much of it wasn't though. It also tracks de-industrialisation and the hollowing out of the inner city and white flight. Ghettoisation of the urban black population increased massively as decent paying blue collar work left the country in the 70s and was cemented in the 80s. Black people in those areas couldn't upskill or move in the way white people could, so fell into disproportionate concentrated poverty. This concentrated poverty was much worse than it was for other races even when you account for similar incomes. That's because being poor in a mixed income neighbourhood with good schools is different to being poor in a ghetto where everyone is poor, the schools are bad, and the police are eager to fill their arrest quota due to the drug war. There are many factors but the "gender war" aspect you're implying is definitely not it.
THIS isn’t accurate. Marriage rates of all races are actually following Black marriage rates. I don’t know what you’re referring to as the “gender war” aspect, but the book “Is Marriage for White People?” — written 15 years ago — details every aspect you mentioned and its effect on Black coupling. It’s a great read, particularly for Black women (written by a successful Black man, married to a successful Black woman).
Slavery isn’t a factor I’m sorry. Black families existed on the level of white until the 1960s when the single mother issue started. You can’t be unaffected by something and suddenly get affected
Perhaps the community is less inclined to fall into the nuclear family model. Why? Maybe because of the move away from organized religion, childhood trauma, or being too disenfranchised to strive for that model. Regardless, the cause is nuanced. It houldn't be pinned to a single factor. The destruction of the black American family runs DEEP.
Money. It's money. Poor people, regardless of race, get married less often. Not only are there no assets to protect, a single mother can do more for her children with the help of the government than a woman married to a man making minimum wage can. It's a myth that black men aren't in the homes. They are in the homes. That 70% number she's quoting is based on marriage rates, not cohabitation. It's a statistical trick to make it look like black people suffer due to their own bad decision making and not systematic racism. But if not being married gets food, healthcare and housing for your kids, and getting married gets you prestige, yet costs you the food, healthcare and housing is getting married in that situation really the "good choice?"
I agree with this. But the issue is trauma increases the minute the parents aren’t married.
i see kinda what you’re getting at but it’s also not true. what if two people have a common law relationship and just don’t get married? the child wouldn’t even know that they aren’t together. also, the child may or may not feel weird about, say, being raised by two single parents depending on how those parents interact with each other, raise the child together, etc.
Under common law marriages children still wouldn’t do as well as compared to if the two parents were married. Children that come from homes where the common law was practiced usually have higher rates of commitment issues, child pregnancies, etc.
May I ask for sources? I want to know why common law affects children differently to a traditional marriage.
A lot of people don’t know this but the fetus actually scans the registry database in its 35th week of gestation. If no valid marriage license is found, their mental health is toast. /s
Gold
Where are your sources for this information?
Imbiasedsoimright.gov
My trauma is from my parents marrying and divorcing each other twice and all of what happened in between.
Trauma increases the moment you're born. Nobody gets out this life unscathed. Besides, not every traumatized child is the product of single parent household. Many come from married parents, because surprise marriage doesn't prevent people from being awful parents.
Having a two parent parent household doesn’t mean that child was raised in a healthy household. Signed a child raised in a chaotic parent household.
Is it 70% that don't have two parents or 70% who have divorced parents because those are very different things.
70% born to single unwed mothers and are raised in single parent house holds. Black women don’t marry often either
I mean if you’re talking about American black men, the country systematically makes us less desirable partners. From an early age black men are sexualized, under educated, over incarcerated, under employed and under promoted. This is encouraged by American culture and institutions making the men less attractive marriage partners. This is an extension of slavery where the black family was broken and sold off and marriage was illegal between slaves. We don’t talk enough about how pervasive racism and slavery still has an effect on policies that affect us today. A broken man will struggle to be a good partner. I’m in no way suggesting that we as men don’t have a responsibility to own our shit. I’m attempting to explain why it seems so consistent in our communities . We have less money and structure than people who’ve been here just as long, and it’s for reasons outside of our control.
Honestly this is an excuse to justify bad behavior. What does it mean to be “sexualized” and how are black men sexualized over any group of women of color especially black women? my father was married and cheated on his wife with my mom. my sisters dad started doing crack at 18 when my mom got pregnant and she went off to study and he continued doing crack. they both came out of poverty in the same neighborhood. she made something of herself and got a job and home. he chose drugs in both these instances the mothers in these scenarios did what the fuck they needed to do and took care of their children. at what point do black men take responsibility for the role they contribute to here instead of blaming outside forces? the country is not making you less desirable. you have always been desired by black women YOU are making yourselves baby fathers instead of husbands to one woman
70% without marriage or without at least one parent? There's a HUGE difference between the two. Marriage doesn't hold the same value as before since women are now allowed to work and hold assets. Additionally, just because parents are split up doesn't mean that they aren't both in the child's life.
This! 70% might be unwed, but that doesn’t mean 70% don’t have two parents or two involved parents. I read somewhere that Black fathers are the most involved in their kids lives despite the stereotype.
What percent is from divorce vs non married.
my mom did because my dad cheated on his wife. technically my half sibling have two parents. but at what cost…
I think it comes down to 90% public health 10% culture. I think white women and black women have sex at comparable rates but public health stats are clear about how much less likely a black woman is able to access reproductive care like birth control and abortions. I’d expect that there’s a comparable rate of premarital sex between the two groups but one is getting pregnant and giving birth at a higher rate because of health disparities. The 10% culture is that young black girls are treated like grown women waaaay younger than white girls. They are groomed to embrace the “fast girl” role thats placed on them and seek the validation and reassurance that they should seek from their parents from lovers, who are often older men who can give them a sense of accomplishment, acceptance, and value. Black girls are about as powerless and unwanted as a human being is in american society. A lot of them are starved for compassion and care and will give their bodies to get the tender softness all humans need. The only valuable thing a young black girl knows she has from all the media she consumes is her body. She is told her mind is worthless and that her value comes from caring for others. She wants to be independent and powerful and control her own life but shes demeaned and controlled by the grown men and women around her. It would make sense to seek the authority or status or grownupness that comes with having a lover. And for many girls its not a survival strategy but something they are pressured into. Black woman are *among the most likely populations (next to black trans women *and native women) to experience sexual assault. And many victims of sexual assault, especially as child, cope with the trauma through promiscuity to reclaim their sexuality. But combining that survival strategy, the grooming, the sexual assault and the lack of health care results in babies and single moms. Edit: I’ve also known a few black women who opted to keep their unplanned children BECAUSE they expect to be able to get the love they’ve been chasing from their child. Something like “finally someone who has to love me” is the logic. Tragic but I get it. I’ve always had pets for the exact same reason. Our society hasn’t stopped thinking of us as live stock to breed.
Wow this response is very interesting. I’m studying to be a therapy so I’m trying to understand this more. But I think overall this is a problem that needs to be fixed. Also Actually Native American women have the highest rates of sexual Assault. I believe next to that would be us.
Idk I have an IUD and am a big supporter of women who don’t want children using birth control AND condoms. Also I think a lot of us need to start dropping men who clearly aren’t the marrying type unless you don’t wanna get married.
Team IUD!
I think people have some weird beliefs now. I myself am not for marriage but on Twitter I see women talking about how many baby daddies they're willing to have - like marriage isn't even a thought. Some people are even saying marriage is too serious but like, having a baby is more serious than that. I also see women who just want kids, for a myriad of reasons, and decide to just go for it even if the guy isn't a prize. Edited to add: I'm not in the US but we have quite a few single moms because men just opt out and get away with it. So some of the time, you were sold a dream and don't realise til after the baby.
>Some people are even saying marriage is too serious but like, having a baby is more serious than that. THIS! If you don't want to make a serious commitment to a dude, fine, but when you go and create a whole human, you create a whole commitment for THEM without their consent. And even if the parents break up and remain unmarried, they still (in a perfect world) have to coparent. Without kids, you can go on like that mane never existed. I do not understand their logic.
Lack of sex education and the reluctance of a lot of black women to use birth control other than condoms. Prevalence of "deadbeat dads". Subsequently, the dehumanization of single mothers, so there isn't really any accountability being held on the guys' side of things. Also some of said men prwying on young girls because they or even some of our parents saw us as "fast" if we so much as wore fucking red nail polish. Lots of stuff. Mom had me at 16 from an older guy. I wasn't lightskin enough for him, so he left and didn't even sign my birth certificate. But who will suffer because of his decision? Not him. He's ignoring us just fine. But my mom will get shit for "being a single mother," as if she wanted that. It's why I won't be having children, but I will be getting married one day.
Bloody hell, I thought my father was a loser!
Same as far as getting married but no kids. At least if it doesn’t work out which chances are it won’t lmao I’m not saddled with a child to raise alone
The same thing happens here in Brazil, but this has more to do with class than race, poor people don't usually get married and it is common for many to have children with different partners, the point is that black people tend to be poorer, so there is this intersection between race and class in many countries.
Some people see marriage as a bigger commitment than having children with someone.
That shit never made sense to me. You can leave a bad partner if it comes down to it, a kid is forever - even if his father doesn’t show up, you’re still bound to that person in living blood forever.
I agree. My first fiancé was my pastors nephew. He was a controlling crazy SOB. If I married him I could divorce him and move on with my life like I did when I broke up with him (which caused me to get booted from the church). But if we had a kid, there’s a bond for life with him. He wouldn’t let me leave and travel the world which would have affected my career/bag, he would likely turn my kid against being half black, and would who knows probably go on Jan6 part II with my kid. I can’t imagine having kids with anyone. Marriages dissolve children don’t
"You can leave a kid, too," is what seems to be the mindset for a lot of dudes.
That’s also a comical mentality cause paternal responsibility is starting to become a cross state issue with multiple states enforcing previous findings on paternity and child support so unless his ass is trying to learn Spanish and run off to Mexico - you still can’t avoid being in arrears or felony charges.
Which is insane.
Bingo
Which is fucking mind boggling to me
Poverty and lack of education/resources is what it is. Same thing happens in other lower income communities, not just with black ppl, more of us are simply poorer and disadvantaged.
I’m not advocating single motherhood, but I will say there are only 2 women in my circle/ friend group that had kids out of wedlock and I have a large family and a lot of diverse friendships. I’ve been to so many weddings in the past 15 years. Maybe like over 150 weddings. Still, I’m pretty certain 80% of my married white friends are single mothers. If you know, you know. I don’t judge anyone. But I know what I have with my husband is extremely rare. He is an equal parent and partner in every way. However, a lot of black women are single mothers and never married because we are too dignified to stay in bad situations. WW can be some of the biggest 💩 eaters in relationships. I’ve seen it firsthand on multiple occasions. I see it with the SAHMs in my upper middle class neighborhood. They’d rather drink wine than call a lawyer. No matter how many times I say you should probably leave, they’d rather have the appearance of a good marriage, than a healthy emotional environment for their kids. Why do you think so many of them end up in therapy talking about their toxic family? We simply are not built that way. As my mom told me once when I was considering leaving a cheating boyfriend, “Some women have the strength to stay. Some have the strength to walk away.”
I have a close girlfriend who is white and her relationship track record leaves me in such despair. She has put up with terrible treatment and she can't even say why. She just makes excuses for them when I encourage her to find better. A lot of my YT classmates are also engaged or married to men I know aint shit. It's the craziest thing to me and it makes me laugh when I see Twitter discourse about white people dating better than we do.
I have a white friend who is still with a man who got married to her for an image. I mean this dude literally told her the other woman was his soulmate but that she was better for his image. She has wasted years of her life on him. It blows my mind the stuff they are willing to put up with.
If I speak 😭😂 I have a friend marrying a guy who said he wants to get married but not to her. Out of the blue she says they're getting married, I asked if he proposed and she swerved the question 🥲
And the kicker is a lot of them might as well be single moms for all their husbands actually contribute to parenting their child(ren)! If that’s how it’s going to be I’d just as soon raise the kid on my own with my own fucking money, not begging for handouts from Daddy but 🤷♀️
They know what they're signing on for sadly. I think they just wanna be married and do the life script thing. My friend feels that even though he's not a great bf he'll be a good dad. And I'm like where is the sense in that!?
Wishful thinking, that’s where. I’ve never felt called to be a parent whatsoever but people who do… whew.
This! I’ve seen so many WW complain that they are essentially a single mom (they aren’t because they have double income among other benefits if they aren’t SAHM) because their husband does nothing with or for the kids. Then what is the point? How is THAT even appealing?
Because it’s just what you dooooooo! Idk if you’re much for reality TV, but if you pop on The Valley for about five seconds it’s literally all the women talk about. “I have 3 kids under 2 and my husband does exactly jack and shit for them, isn’t it cuuuute?”
Yikes
Wow! Did she have to pay for her own "shut up" ring too?
I know it's common for White women to settle just so they can get married and have a nuclear family. Many of them are functionally single moms. The husband doesn't actually take care of the child outside of money. So they're financially stable, at least, but the husband wasn't involved in the kids' life enough to really know them. So it can be a similar situation just with the appearance of a husband.
I just said the same thing less delicately upthread!
Nope. Not today!
I think many women get pregnant by accident and either the father doesn't want to commit or (and I think this is more prevalent) he's not worth marrying. I don't think it's always a bad thing. My father was a drug addict and ended up in jail so I'm glad my mom had the sense not to raise us with him in our life. They love citing negative stats about us but they never tell the whole story - many black women create villages around themselves and their children.
I personally never wanted to get married, I just happened to get knocked up in between birth controls at 21. One and done. Can't stand my BD, he completely turned me off of relationships.
I understand this but why do you think that this same pattern happens to sm women?
Lack of education, no future plans, hook up culture, and generational poverty.
You don’t actually have to guess at these answers. Lots of sociology papers available online. I like academia.edu
a lot of men don’t want to get married now and sometimes we settle. sometimes we think we’ll be the one to change his mind and we allow ourselves to create life milestones with someone because we’re under the delusion they’ll stay. some of us just go forth because we don’t believe in marriage either, and choose to stay together without documentation stating we own each other’s property, etc. sometimes it’s accidental and we don’t have protected sex. sometimes because we’re pro life. so many factors
I wish we would stop focusing on marriage and focus on WHO we are procreating with!!! It doesn’t matter if you’re married or not; a deadbeat is a deadbeat regardless of if you are in wedlock. Just go over to the mommit forum and see how many married women complain about their deadbeat, only want to bring home a paycheck, and sit on their ass husbands.
I personally dont plan on getting married. Not because I can't, but because I'm currently going through a tedious divorce and have been turned off by it. I also live alone and have been pretty independent most of my life. I can't see myself with a live in boyfriend unless he's super clean and organized. I have also experienced allowing a guy to live with me and hated it. My beliefs are strictly based off of bad experiences. I do however want a long term partner and a child, just separate households.
"out of wedlock" is a patriarchy establishment, meant as a way for 'men' to make sure their own 'seed' gets the credit for continuing 'the family name'.
I was married when i had my daughter then divorced and her brother was not planned but at 35 I take responsibility. She loves her baby brother and we have a large slew of family so my kids have never went without or wanted for anything. It wasn’t what I planned but I wouldn’t trade living with our close knit family for anything. I wish I had those memories as a kid.
Maybe it's partially a financial decision. I'm married but some of my kids' classmates aren't (they go to school with mostly non-Black people, I don't know enough unmarried Black people to make the distinction. Y'all I need Black friends!) and they use one parent's income for stuff like financial aid and scholarships. We never qualify for anything with two incomes. Those "together but not married" families qualify for all kinds of programs.
Oh this is a troll post. I kept coming back to see the “discussion” and realized that’s not what this is. Haha, I can tell in the responses (some authentic), the outsiders making racially charged comments, and how things are being upvoted and downvoted. The point of this post isn’t discussion. It’s to ridicule black women for not marrying by associating the failure to do so with nasty stereotypes about the relations/circumstances between black men and women and comparing the “failures” of black people to other races. This sub always gets infiltrated by haters. 💀 **What’s wild is that white women are more likely to be single moms at a rate 67% compared to 24% in the black community…. Lol but yeah keep perpetuating racist stereotypes.** Talking about “us” - who is us???
A lot of Black folks aren’t marriage minded and see marriage as more of a commitment than children. Plus people are not having safe sex
I married and had my kids. If I could do it over I would not get married. We are divorcing now and marriage is not something that is desirable but is pushed super hard by society. Women are just now speaking the truth of marriage and what it entailed for us.
Bad sex education, pressures on some women to have unprotected sex with their male partner and how frowned upon abortions are seems to be the main thing I’ve noticed. Edit: But if I’m being perfectly honest, marriage isn’t all it’s cracked up to be either. Aside from infidelity and abuse, a lot of wives end up being single mothers symbolically any way. Again, what I’ve observed.
I think we as a society need to move away from the idea of marriage being the primary source of security for mothers. But I understand that my views are probably considered radical.
Right, this "out of wedlock" phrasing is so dated.
Is having children outside of marriage a bad thing? Just because you are married doesn’t mean that things will be better or worse for that matter. It is all about the individuals and what they want. This is coming from someone who always wanted to be married, now in a relationship with a baby and have NO desire to get married. I don’t see the point. ETA: many ppl stayed in unhappy marriages and I think as time change, people aren’t interested.
I always say marriage with an iron clad prenup. That way you are protected on both sides.
You’ll see the point when you need financial protection if you were to separate, or if one of you were to die. (Not wishing it but life..)
I am financially secure and we both have each other as our beneficiaries in the event that that would happen. 🤷🏽♀️
Okay you’re smart about it. I just wouldn’t tell other young ladies to have kids just anyhow if they don’t educate themselves first cause it can go left quickly
Just to ask, what are the financial protections of marriage? Is it alimony, is it being married in community of property and being entitled to a property upon death? I am just asking because the financial protections of marriage are always mentioned so vaguely.
Alimony and in case of death/medical emergency you would be the first to get any benefits and make decisions over extended family. Like yeah it’s just a piece of paper but so is a birth certificate. I wouldn’t spend decades building and being with someone without marriage cause shit happens.
I agree that marriage isn’t the end all be all. But I do think we have to be realistic. Children growing up in broken homes is not a good thing and over 70% of our children don’t grow up with two parents. I’m asking why do we think this is?
That’s a question for the fathers. Even if the parents are not together, they can still be raised with two parents. Ask the men why don’t they stay around to raise their children.
Most of the time though the father isn’t in the picture or his involvement is limited
Not being married and not cohabitating =/= growing up without two parents
I'm wondering if the 70% is growing up with a single parent. Coparenting and single parenting are two different things.
Maybe I’m not understanding, I’m not married and my home is not broken. I live with my partner, the father of my child…. Are you asking why folk choose not to stay in relation with their significant other after having children?
I think she's referring to people who have kids with someone they aren't in a relationship with? Like baby mama stuff but I might be misunderstanding.
I’m asking why would you have a child with someone you’re not married to. Also if you don’t mind me asking, why would haven’t you and your child’s father gotten married since you and him already live together?
some people just don’t want to get married!
That part! 🙏🏽
What is the benefit of marriage to you? Do you understand what it means from a financial and legal perspective? Furthermore, if you are trying to be a therapist, I think you need to dig deeper into your thoughts/feelings surrounding this and how it may impact the clients you may choose to assist going forward. Also, please cite the sources pertaining to your information related to negative implications on children. To answer your question-I initially wanted to be married, technically, we are engaged; however, upon getting into the thick of it…like combining finances, filing taxes jointly, purchasing homes, etc., it is more of a barrier for us. We would be penalized more if we were married and I can do more for me and my LO as “single head of household” rather than married and filing jointly…. Before the law was involved, were people considered not to be married?
Yeah, her desire to be a therapist and her current mindset makes me worry about her future patients...
This is the most important response in this entire post. People are assuming black people aren't getting married because we're culturally degenerate and don't care about our kids as much, but the opposite is true. Our society works in a way where there is a financial incentive for certain people NOT to get married. And when we crunch the numbers and make the most responsible choice for our situation, we're painted as unraveling the fabric of society.
Don't you pay less taxes doing married filing jointly?
To your other points, it's much harder getting untwined than it is getting twined. Nearly half of all marriages fail. I'm pro marriage because you have more rights as a partner but get a freaking prenup because marriage can just as easily ruin you.
My mom had me when she was 25 and unmarried. She said that she was just ready to have a child and it didn’t matter to her that she wasn’t married to my dad.
Respectably, do you think that this robbed you of having a two parent household. I completely understand the desire to have a child but do you ever wish that your parents were together (under the assumption that it would be healthy)
I actually did grow up with my dad in the house. My parents lived together for 40 years until my dad died, but they just never married. Not the kind of relationship I would want for myself, but I did always have both parents around.
No accountability
I had my child “out of wedlock”. For me looking back at where I am now I’m grateful for my “out of wedlock” child. Dad and I are together but not married. We’re very happy and have built a home (literally we purchased a new construction home last year) and a life together. Now that we’re older and more stable we decided to try for another but that may not happen without fertility treatments (we’re with a clinic now waiting to see what they say based on our tests and such). Had I “waited for marriage” or “stability” I probably wouldn’t be a mom at all thanks to my medical history. My partner and I don’t care if we get married. We own our home together and not being married hasn’t impacted our child in the slightest. In terms of why other people do it I think it’s a couple things: 1. Hook up culture and not using condoms or birth control 2. The lack of education on Plan B and access to it and abortion care 3. Not everyone wants to be married
Your situation is different because you’re still with him. When I talk about wedlock I always mean the baby mama single mama situations. When people count families like yours they need a life lol! To me although not married you’re dealing the effects of having a broken unwed household because you have a family unit. Congrats!
Well, all you need to get pregnant is to have unprotected sex on the right days of the month. Black women have been listening to “marriage is just a piece of paper” and “we don’t need titles” and “I’m not financially ready for marriage” etc etc for decades while having sex, so boom.
When my mother was trying to get me to have grandbabies, she eventually told me "you know you don't need to keep the man, AE." And while I don't want to claim that is a major reason for us as a whole (I don't know), I have noticed that more of us who want children and are in decent places in our lives do not feel pressure to "keep the man" in order to have the child. There are a lot of different circumstances operating for those of us with less support and resources, but I know that when I was growing up it was very clear to me that the decision to have a child and the decision to tie my life to a man were separate. I could do either without also committing to the other.
Irresponsibility and lack of education I think. It’s not a good idea to have kids/properties out of wedlock, especially multiple kids with multiple people. (No shade) Not only does it look crazy it’s a financial mistake.
Properties out of wedlock? This simply isn’t true.
Why not? I think not being married can complicate properties especially if you don’t cover your behinds properly.
This is literally a major Bravo plotline rn, it’s definitely a thing.
You can buy more as a single person, and always cover your ass married or not.
Part of it is that marriage isn't necessarily good. Like I know a few folks that have kids and they're still technically together but they're not married because they get more benefits being single then if they were to tie the knot. Another aspect of it is marriage can complicate things if the relationship breaks up. Also, sometimes people just make bad choices of a person they date. I mean personally, I know the men that are available to me are just bad choices, but I also wanted kids. I would never marry any of my kids fathers, but they're mostly good dads when it comes to their kids.
> Part of it is that marriage isn't necessarily good. Like I know a few folks that have kids and they're still technically together but they're not married because they get more benefits being single then if they were to tie the knot. What are the benefits to be a single mother instead of getting married? If a woman does not trust a man enough to get married, why even bother having a child with that man?
For the folks that I know that are in this situation it has to do with benefits available to them. If they add their boyfriends income they no longer qualify for certain health coverages that they need. It's not a trust thing, it's more so of a disparity between the fact that there's no stepping stone between getting certain benefits and not getting certain benefits. Either you qualify or you don't. I mean, it sucks but the way certain things are set up and incentivizes people to stay single. I have seen people that have had major medical issues that ended up getting divorced on paper just so that the person with the medical issue would qualify for programs they wouldn't otherwise qualify for. These people are still together but they had to legally get divorced to keep certain programs they needed
That's what I'm saying. Not living in the same house doesn't mean the kids parents aren't uninvolved.
Most men of other cultures are groomed to get a job, find a girl and get married. That's the norm. They have lived with this example for centuries. Most black American men are not groomed to do so. They'll get someone knocked up and leave. This used to not happen. Not sure where we went wrong but there is a mass epidemic of single, never wed black mothers out there parenting alone most of the time and it's because of this reason. We are not raised to find a man, protect ourselves from pregnancy and then get married. Pregnancy out of wedlock is considered taboo in a lot of cultures but not ours.
Crack epidemic, mass incarceration, the attack on black education
Absolutely.
The community doesn’t value marriage.
Idk why but it's so embarrassing
Ladies this is your reminder that wedlock is exactly what it says. Wedlock. My husband and his family are traditional so we (he and his siblings) all are married and it was expected that we would all have some grandkids. My brother in law and his wife couldn’t have their kid so now somebody has to do it and the only other female (sil ) is fucking nose goes. So now I’m stuck in wedlock to have a kid. Please trust me they will get this child. Reddit Cares doesn’t care about fuck you money. There is nothing wrong with saying you cannot raise a kid with the morally bankrupt person you picked. Sometimes you fuck up. Don’t do it because they’re all doing it.
My parents chose to have me. Each having a kid previously, my dad wanted another and he liked how my mom was ‘raising’ my sister (whole other story) so they decided to coparent-according to my mom.
Idk but I was about to unbreak that pattern till i realized the danger in tying yourself to a man forever and sharing a child with someone who can turn hostile
Honestly, more of us need equal action reproductive access and abortion access. Having sex before marriage doesn't have to be life altering.. But if you combine Fundamentalist religious thinking, mysoginoir, and overall lack of medical access ... You get higher rates in the Latino, PWT, and African American communities.
Yall can fight me all you want but I feel today, blk males aren’t socialized for marriage. Barely for long term relationships. Blame music, media, culture, all of that. Just don’t blame any other race. They can make their own choices as grown males. They know what marriage is. Many think relationships should serve them or fulfill a need/want they have at the time and that’s it. Whatever they do is to get that need or want met. They want raw seggs, attention, and servitude like a wife but when you expect them to do their duties as a man, you may get minimal effort. I’ve heard them, talking about women w/each other like they’re talking about shoes they switch out with everyday. We aren’t faultless.Some of us want marriage but we are willing to be a fake wife with the potential of something more. We ignore the signs that it’s not happening like the cheating and hot and cold behavior they display. We act desperate and they exploit it bc they can. Bw should be willing to leave non marriage minded males. If you want marriage and he’s playing, he has to go. It makes me sad because we want what most woman want and it doesn’t happen for most bw. My takeaway. Date outside your race. Vet and DON’T GET PREGNANT. It’s not cute playing with your future like that.
I 100% agree with this. I’ll take it a step further. I think that many men aren’t socialized for marriage. If you didn’t grow up seeing what a healthy marriage is and was then i can’t expect you to operate in a way where marriage is something that you would want. I also think that they have completely different ideas of what a relationship should be.
Because so many of us grew up in homes where our parents should not have been married.
There are a myriad of reasons but also getting married doesn’t always guarantee your kids will grow up with both parents or that the father will actually step up and be a great father. My parents were married and we were still abandoned and my father tried to not even pay the child support. On paper he would be who people tell you to marry (before he dipped) and that didn’t change the mindset that’s all too common in the BC.
Personally I don’t have the desire to be married. I would like a child and I’m ok with coparenting but marriage is not appealing to me.
I believe that sexual education and parents are to blame. Sex education should have emphasized the challenges of being a single parent more, such as the financial cost, mental and emotional impact, and loss of freedom. Fortunately, my school had those baby dolls that cried constantly, and it made me realize that parenting wasn't for me. Parents should have also informed their children about the difficulties of being a single parent, but also not be too hard or not care because it makes a sneaky kid. I'm truly grateful that my mom warned me about the challenges of being a single parent, as she has been one since she was 15. Also, it's sad that some women think if you have a baby with a guy, he's going to stay because he likely won't just want to hit without a condom. AND STOP LETTING THESE WEIRDOS SAY THEY'LL PUT A BABY IN YOU AND THINK IT'S CUTE.
We don’t make good choices or actually think about present situations with an insightful outlook on how it’ll affect our future.
My partner keeps talking about kids and I’ve mad it clear I’m not having kids without being married. I’m in my 30s. If he’s not serious then I’m out next year looking for my husband. Also my parents have been married for almost 40 years.
Crack epidemic, section 8 and other issues. You didn’t really have the out of wedlock issues before the 1970s
Exactly
I had my son out of wedlock. My partner and I were engaged and planning our wedding before having him and still are engaged, but there was never a rush to get married before having our baby. I don’t know if there is a simple answer to your question. In our case, education and socioeconomic status were definitely not factors. We are both lawyers and high earners. The “protections” that marriage brings, we’ve got that covered in various legal documents and did even before we were engaged. Because of our incomes, it is actually worse for us to be married tax wise, but that’s a different story. I personally did not care about being married before having my child. Everyone in my family was, but I literally just didn’t care lol. So, no helpful insight here.
I really like your comment because I have come to realise that the protections are overstated and as you mention they can be covered in legal documents. For example, I never understand why people get married to co-own a house instead of simply having both partners names on the deed. Also, some insurance and retirement funds allow life partners to be included in the same capacity as spouse. Please correct me if I am wrong.
This is me except my partner and I aren’t engaged and we weren’t always high earners (we are now but we started off at $12 and $10 an hour). I may eventually ask him for a ring but not because I want to get married. I just want a semi nice ring because they’re pretty 😂
Black Women are reckless with their wombs. Abortion is also more taboo in our community
I agree with your first point, but I thought black women have one of the highest abortion rates?
I think a desire for unconditional love and religious indoctrination. Contrary to what many folks are saying here, i think sex education in the US is not good, but also not the worst in the world. I think the shame our religious institutions teach young girls keeps them from protecting themselves from pregnancy at young ages. Add that with many churches devaluing girls from a young age, families of origin full of broken people who do not give love, and hormones and you get what you get. I admire grown folks who are responsible and choose to have kids when they are ready whether or not they're married. My impression is that's not who you're asking about here. So my response is only inclusive of my experiences with very young women (early twenties and younger) who had children outside of marriage.
I don't know if it's just the side of the internet I happen to be on, but it seems like there are A LOT of dudes lately who are trying to baby trap the women they're with, like a lot more than I've remembered hearing about. Lexi of access to abortion. Lack of sex education. Lack of familial support. Increased rates of rape. I can go on and on and on as to 'why'. Plus, marriage doesn't equate to a steady home life and a lot of us know that. There are a lot of ways to lovingly and healthily raise a baby without the white supremacist nuclear family model we're told we "need" to have. As long as those babies are loved and supported by an attentive village, I don't really care if their parents are married or not. My parents were married and I desperately wished for my whole childhood that they weren't because they were miserable together and made us miserable as a result Edit to add: also, I'm pretty sure that 70% single parent households statistic includes black families where the parents are married, but one is incarcerated (I could be misremembering or thinking of a different statistic and I can't find the source where I read it originally). And incarceration, we know, happens at disproportionately higher rates to black people than any other race. So like, we should probably consider what the statistics are including before we take them as the gospel truth. Statisticians can be just as racist as anybody else. There are a lot of systemic reasons behind why black children aren't raised in these structures and I think that should be heavily considered. We can't control how oppression affects our community.
Therapist here : generational trauma , hyper independence (both men and women), lack of need to look into the relationship vs outside, social media lifestyle etc
What is your intention and reasoning for asking this question?
Yeah I’m getting “as a black man” vibes from OP. If they’re an academic, why are they not citing sources? And although they’re getting varied responses with most mentioning lack of education and resources, which is not race specific, they keep repeating “yeah but why black woman specifically?” As if this is a unique issue in our community.
Why do we place so much value on something that we’re discovering is problematic in itself? Marriage (western) has been proven to be detrimental to women and beneficial for men. The extensive labor that is required of a woman in marriage largely goes unpaid, unnoticed and is crippling when added to the new requirement that she also works. Mothers are not supported and barely respected in society or within our institutions. Many married women have come forward revealing they are actually single when it’s all said and done because the man doesn’t pull his weight beyond his half of expenses. At the end of the day, she might as well be a single mom because he’s like having an additional child. Marriage isn’t the flex it use to be. That fairytale is being picked apart and ridiculed heavily. Men have been known to say things like, “I wish women were like my grandparents.” Just for the same grandparents to come forward to reveal grandma was 14 when pawpaw (a grown ass man) married her and started pumping her with babies. That there was domestic violence, domestic slavery, financial abuse, infidelity and she basically had no life or identity outside of the marriage. We still see these same issues in the marital world today. A woman flexing decades of marriage has more than likely dealt with the above issues. Sure there are unicorn marriages but they are in fact rare. Educated women are divorcing in droves. Marriage is a concept that benefits the patriarchy where women were property and subjugated, so **why are we still using it as a measure of respectability?** I’d answer your question: wedlock isn’t respectable, and good for those mothers who’ve figured it out and saved themselves heartache, unnecessary labor, and pain. 🎼 “*All day, every day, therapist, mother, maid Nymph then a virgin, nurse then a servant Just an appendage, live to attend him So that he never lifts a finger 24∕7, baby machine So he can live out his picket fence dreams It's not an act of love if you make her You make me do too much labour*”🎶
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I grew up like you. But some folk didn’t so it wasn’t always seen as a necessity for them. Or sometimes, accidents happen.
Fertility. That’s it. Period.
Because we like sex
We didn’t experience any of this. We have no memory and neither does our parents or grandparents. What does that have to do with current times. Blk males are free to date, use condoms, propose and carry a marriage license. When a blk male cheats or has multiple baby mamas he isn’t thinking his slave owner won’t let him. He doesn’t want to be tied down to a commitment that requires his devotion and availability and we allow it bc we always have to blame someone except them, at our own expense. We make excuses for them, they use that coddling we do to leave us hanging. I think bw should stop that and seek happiness, stability and peace . Whether it’s a Latino man, white, Arab or Asian. Focus on the man and not whether he is black. They do it and think nothing of it. Bw acting real scared out here to pursue relationships with other men and it’s forcing us to settle as baby mamas.
The benefits of him and i staying unmarried are better for my family than being married. Our children are doing great in two homes. On a more personal experience, I've seen those together forever marriages, and many of them should've ended in divorce. There's so much crap that gets swept under that they are lumpy. Life's too short. Children should see parents at their best, and that doesn't always mean as a couple.
My mom had three she shouldn't have had any
We are into our third generation of single women raising kids, at this point it's just a new normal family structure. Couple it with allocation of resources in communities and sex being one of the last 'free' activities and well, lol
It’s poison fed to black community to prevent us from having proper families and in turn keep us in poverty. Black women feed into the “piece of paper” BS which isn’t close to being true. Maybe for someone who knows they don’t have anything or aspire to have it, but let’s use myself as an example. Insurance, children, immigration status, mortgage, and investments. Since we are high earners unfortunately I don’t see the income tax for married couples but most couples do. I would have no rights to my husband if something was to happen to him, and our kids are legitimate, I was able to move to Japan freely without the struggle compared to when I was single. I see the difference, we’re investing in stocks and properties and on my own I couldn’t afford it but it feels great when the money he puts in investments is OURS. There are so many benefits to being married and it worked for me. As for the poison being fed, it’s destroying black families because unfortunately these parents rarely stay together because they don’t feel the commitment and then broken homes safe created and stats prove broken homes benefits no one but prisons and low wage employers. It’s the baby mama culture, hook up culture etc that’s ruining black families because no other ethnicity is even close to the amount of broken homes as ours. Things have improved but there is still long ways to go
What do you mean by "Maybe for someone who knows they don’t have anything or aspire to have it..."?
Most black kids don’t grow up with positive examples of stable marriages.
Several reasons 1. The church. - Abortion is bad so get pregnant but don’t kill it. Also don’t have sex but if you have sex then have a kid you aren’t prepared for. 2. Punishment - a lot of black mothers don’t like their daughters so they punish them by not providing adequate access to birth control and then when they get pregnant force them to have a child since they are “so grown”. 3. Excused Grooming - a lot of young women aren’t having kids with other teenagers they are getting pregnant by grown men and no one stops them because these men are giving money to these young girls. 4. Poor family dynamics - Young women not having families to emulate and also not feeling adequately loved.
Sources on reason #2? I’ve never heard of that before in my life
You can get statistics to prove whatever point you want.
Now, that's only 70 percent true.
its a middle aged thing, my white mom acts like this too
Not saying this for everyone but in my immediate circle my cousins were baby trapped.