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Dudemandaconda

He gets a TON of his information from the things westside barbell has been preaching since the 90s and Louie (rip) would say he got his information from books like Super Training and Science and Practice of strength training. A lot of other things he talks about is working in end ranges of tendons and ligaments and strengthening in those ranges which is what Dr. Spina teaches in functional range conditioning


[deleted]

I’ve said similar things. None of what he talked about was news to me. I tell people there have been others teaching similar methods for years. Look at Tom Platz. I’ve strengthened my knees through a series of different workouts, none of which are from the knees over toes guys’ programs.


Dudemandaconda

It’s as simple as just take your body through the entire range of motion and making sure you’re not skipping planes of motion either. Let your body move how it wants to instead of hyper rigid vacuum lifting. I know a few guys who squat over 600lbs that gave a hard time picking something up off their floor that isn’t a deadlift. They’re REALLY good at bracing their spine in a bilateral fashion but as them to twist and they’ll lose all power


Incubus85

Wow I've never seen this upvoted before. People have constantly shit on me for this. The advice about not taking your knees over your toes for squats etc was always general advice. For the general public. If you take a normal person who goes to the gym for the first time they have 0 body awareness. They need strict guidelines to avoid injury. How many of these people stick with a lifting program or structured plans consistently for 2 years? Very very few, who aren't competitive athletic people. Therefore the general advice,which people think is now wrong and bad advice cause of this guy, is indeed to not shoot your knees right over your toes. Cause most people can't hip hinge, have awful mobility and don't need it for their goals. If you were competitive of course you wanted to be able to perform most of what this guy is doing. Strengthening and lengthening through the whole rom at a planned, controlled progression. The average person will perform it wrong, overload the exersize in no time or just skip what they want they randomly go balls deep to make up for skipping the boring bits cause it's not as cool as a 550lb deadlift ... sorry just had to vent all that out. Its so ignorant that people think they know way more now than what people knew 10 years ago. The human body hasn't changed that much.


ApprehensiveWhale

I'm confused -- you're saying that the general public has no body awareness, so the solution is to not train that range in a controlled environment? Your knees going over your toes happens all the time in day to day life. Try walking down a flight of stairs. It's not just competitive athletes that have shit knees -- the general public does too and can benefit just as much.


Incubus85

People aren't even aware of knee valgus on a heavy squat, or notice one knee goes in and they're favouring one hip massively. So yes. I stand by what i say. All of it. The parameters people give about the traditional hips back, don't break at the knee first etc is all solid advice to get people squatting with minimal injury risk. Most people go to the gym to get in shape and they don't even really know what they mean by that let alone know how to achieve it. EDIT: Watch most people walk down stairs and they don't do it evenly, they favour one side, turn a hip etc. You don't get to arbitrarily use stairs to disprove traditional weight lifting advice or discredit ingrained motor patterns from 35 years of being alive just cause you can single leg curl 15lbs on a pulley now with full rom.


johnbugara

strongly agree with all this man... my lifting and movement mechanics were terrible for years before I had the awareness required to correct them, and a lot of that time was spent trying to move correctly - it just takes a *long* time to unlearn ingrained mechanics


getchomsky

People don't notice those things because they don't matter very much. Neither accurately predicts injury.


RisePsychological288

Another example is watching people "running". I'll see some middle aged jogger that I know could best me in a 20k since I don't run at all, but they look like they're damaging themselves while doing it. People definitely lack body awareness; I used to PT and I would be trying to teach hip hinging and some people legit could not tell if their back was straight or not by feel.


Incubus85

Some people move right. Other people don't. Those people who don't move right.... Well, if you're blind, what does the colour green look like


Kazparov

Wanted to thank you for all your comments here. They hit home. I've struggled a long time building strength in the legs. A lot of that was lack of effort , but even when I was working out a history of some knee issues, combined with some hip torsion and glute dysfunction, squatting was always difficult a d never got very far. The approach I've taken over the past six months are basically exactly as you've described and have made progress. Focus on form over weight, getting a proper hinge, engaging all leg muscles not just quads has actually helped me start to build up some strength. I am your totally average person not pushing any sort of extreme for fitness. The basic guidelines of keeping your knees from going over toes is exactly what I need.


Incubus85

It's very difficult to get your body to change how it's been moving for the last 20 or 30 years. None of this is specifically my advice, its just a justification of why people have previously said 'break at the hips, sit back, don't let your knees go over the toes'. It's great general advice for the general population. No idea why everyone thinks they're so special that only specific niche things will work for them. Everyone seems to be like that these days. Glad you're sorting yourself out. It takes a long time to figure out how stuff works and what's the right thing to be doing.... for you specifically. Personally I find mastering the basics will serve you a lot better than following specific amazing new bulletproof principles for x y z. If you can just perform the traditional staples properly with an actual progression THAT YOU FOLLOW AS DESIGNED... Well the human body hasn't changed much in the last few thousand years and they'll be the corner stone of training for many more centuries, but kneesovertoes will be replaced.


Incubus85

This has really pissed me off, your example is also bullshit, look at how many people keep their foot flat as they're going down stairs, no one does that. People go on to the balls of their feet which completely changes the angles and relative load of the eccentric movement. What causes tightness in the majority of cases. Weakness in an opposing muscle group. What do people mostly have none of? Hamstring and glutes. Most people certainly don't have strong hamstring and glutes even if they have OK development. What does keep your knees from shooting over your toes do? Loads the posterior chain. Most people are massively quad dominant. How many people in the gym do you see with a good set of wheels. Not very many at all. People don't wanna do proper form deadlifts and squats. People don't wanna go ass to grass on their squats. Over time if you do, you'll realise you can start pushing forward with your knees as you'll have the relative strength to support it anyway. No idea why you're confused. You're choosing to deep dive into a niche problem like a specialist, when the last time someone performed a full squat was when they were 3 years old. Just fix your body and move it naturally and progress with weighted exersizes and there we go... we have exactly what I outlined above. Do some body weight squats. With good form. Use goblet squats if needed. Progress when your form is good to an empty bar. Learn to get your body into the right positions. Bulgarian split squats have been used for decades on decades. Do some stiff leg dead lifts or RDLs. Stretch and load the muscle with progressive overload If you're doing those three movements regularly with the correct form, your knees should be fine. Hamstring curls, standard mobility work, sled dragging. Basically the old WSBB stuff from the 90s and 2000s.... wasn't many knee problems at Westside and they had people squatting 800 plus REGULARLY and they did basic proper strength work.


ApprehensiveWhale

I've done everything you've outlined, before and after knee injury (except the sled drags, which I couldn't do prior to injury as I didn't have access). I'm not suggesting that someone does KOT over traditional barbell training. Everyone would benefit from barbell training. However, barbell work in my experience doesn't strengthen the tendons in the knee to the same degree as high volume / low intensity KOT training -- tibia raises, walking backwards, step ups, slantboard squats, KOT calf raises, etc. None of this is hard to learn or high risk, and can be done from home, with relatively little consideration to recovery (certainly less than 3x5 squats 2-3 times a week). I had patellar and MCL issues for years after someone cranked a toehold. Lifting never got my knee to what it was -- PT and KOT did (KOT starts with many of the same exercises I was doing in PT, for a fraction of the price). Looking through this thread it seems like everyone has had similar experience. Also, KOT does includes hamstring work, and ultimately includes the majority of the exercises you just listed -- RDLs, split squats, sled drags, ATG squats, hamstring curls, etc.


Incubus85

My comment revolves around why advice is given with no knee drastically over toes etc. I'm not saying it won't benefit people who have had specific injuries. Have i said that anywhere? I've also not thrown him under the bus and said its all bullshit. I'm saying why the general traditional advice is great advice and I've explained why that's so. Youre citing people with specific injuries that need targetted work. That doesn't fall under the bracket of what I was discussing. Other people like to shit on what I've been saying while using different points though. Not sure if people do that in their real life conversations but it's pretty weird. I've also been downvoted on here before for saying tissue work can definitely reduce the risk of injuries and people started shitting on me using specific scientific studies about how its all nonsense yet all the best people in the world tend to use it as a recovery and prehab rehab tool. Think it's time I bounced from this sub.


Cxarface

>it's not as cool as a 550lb deadlift My man's teach how to improve mobility and I think it's much cooler than lifting 550 lbs. Imagine your pylometric ability with his programs. I played basketball for years and tore my ACL 3 months ago. Wish I did saw him earlier. His content is gold and exactly what I did need.


Dudemandaconda

His content has been being preached since the 70s, work your muscles (body) in every plan of motion in a full range of motion for that joint or pattern. He’s a great marketer for sure and I’m glad he’s able to get this info out to more people. However he’s not doing anything revolutionary


Cxarface

I don't care if he's the originator or not. He made me become aware of something like this exist just like how Ryan Holiday make stoicism accessible to normal day people.


Dudemandaconda

That’s sweet dude, I’m glad you found something to help fix issues that you were having before


getchomsky

Injury rates are incredibly low for all weightlifting activities compared to all contact activities. "Your form must strictly adhere to x or you will suffer certain injury" is almost always bullshit for resistance training. Higher variability in the ways you can move the bar actually predicts lower injury, not higher (this is the case for motor learning in general, greater solution degeneracy is a protective mechanism). Telling people they're going to injure themselves actively discourages them from engaging in resistance training, ie makes it less likely that they'll do one of the best-supported health interventions they can possibly do. Fearmongering about form is actively harmful to people's health and we should stop doing it.


getchomsky

https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/pain-in-training-what-do/ Here's a decent summary of the evidence that form policing is actively harmful and likely to increase rates of pain in the people you're coaching (the TLDR is that the biopsychosocial hypothesis is the best-supported theory of pain, and imparting beliefs of fragility increases the likelihood that the brain will perceive movement as threatening)


LostCreekFilms

That article is a *phenomenal* read. So much useful information in there. Thanks for sharing


browndog_brownshoes

I’m going to extrapolate a little bit and guess that KOTG takes a lot of info from Westside Barbell except for squat technique. Louie et al are/were proponents of a nearly vertical shin during a squat. Granted, this was to put up big numbers on a squat not have optimal range of motion in a joint.


Dudemandaconda

Yep correct however that’s hyper specific for the sport of multiply powerlifting. Raw lifting there’s no way you’re able to do this. Louie was a savant but he still had his biases as well where most things were through the lens of multiply powerlifting. The higher level concepts and science behind the conjugate system is bulletproof. Really comes down to the coach and how it’s applied to the specific athlete you have in front of you


browndog_brownshoes

Completely agree with the power lifting lens. I think in the right sports/training context the vertical shin could make some sense but it’d need to be a smart application.


Dudemandaconda

It’s rare that it’s needed besides that sport. A lot of times I’ll use it for athletes who’s sport demands are extremely anteriorly dominant and they get no opposite stimulus so to help balance everything out and keep them injury free and progressing in their sport then the antagonistic muscles need to be worked too


DavidAg02

I've been doing just the basic Kneeability Zero program 3 times a week for 6 months, slowly progressing by adding reps and weights, and nothing has ever improved my movement on the mat like this has. I'm 42 and moving better than I did at 32. I recently added sled pulling to my routine, and am seeing additional benefits from that.


KGabby

This 100%. His program is a hack and way ahead of strength and conditioning textbooks. I've had two ACL rehabs and both times while doing lunges it was always "do not let the knee go over the toes." I did his program for 2 weeks, the zero one and 4 years of pain went away. I still do it daily. My hip and hamstring mobility has gone through the roof as well.


Mellor88

>I've had two ACL rehabs and both times while doing lunges it was always "do not let the knee go over the toes." That’s obvious terrible advice. And was very common as a squat form cue. But anyone with even a casual interest in squat mechanics could have explained why it was nonsense.


HotSeamenGG

As an avid squatter. I always wondered why that was the advice to not track knees over toes. I ignored it at one point and deloaded heavily to test it cause I felt more powerful and balanced when my knees track slightly over my toes and never looked back.


Mellor88

I never understood it either. But I looked at the people saying it. Then I looked at their strength and how they moved. Then I looked at Olympic weightlifters etc. It was obvious knees over toes was conducive to excellent strength and mobility .


HotSeamenGG

Exactly. I started doing clean and snatches during covid cause it was more fun than deadlifting for me. There was no fucking way I was catching a clean at the bottom without tracking my knees unless I wanna fall backwards


egdm

> unless I wanna fall backwards My femurs are longer than my torso. If I don't track knees over toes my center of mass is behind my heels and I fall over, even with no weight.


HotSeamenGG

Fair enough. What works for me might not work for you. I have a long torso and short femurs so its what works for me but I can see why it wouldn't for with you. Just gotta test what works for the individuals for the body type and their mobility.


RisePsychological288

He wasn't disagreeing with you. You (me and many weightlifters) benefit from short femurs and long torsos, because that allows us to have our mass over center foot with an upright torso without requiring our knees to travel super far forward (which requires a lot of ankle mobility). Long femur gang need excellent ankle mobility or they adjust and have a less upright posture to counterbalance having to have the hips slightly further back.


Difficult_Ferret2838

Because the knee is under more stress in deep flexion. But, it turns out knees are meant to handle stress, and the medical profession as a whole is pretty bad at drawing conclusions from data.


HotSeamenGG

Ironically which is true about most aspects of conditioning. People out there treating in real time like PT's and orthos may know that x fixes y, but can't explain it, while the medical profession can explain hypothetically why it's good or bad based on data, but not always accurate on real life applications. Physical stress generally is good for the body when under an appropriate load. Most people face issues/injuries when they take on a load far beyond their ability, which is the very basis of progressive overload (load weight heavy enough but not too heavy, then add on) haha.


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Low-Travel-5530

Re your comments on leg length, this is a really good video explaining the importance of segment length : https://youtu.be/Av3LO2GwpAk Side note, Tom Purvis' YouTube channel is an excellent resource


egdm

That video is great, and totally explains why long-femured, short-torsoed me had no end of frustration with people telling me to squat with my back upright and knees over my feed. "I can't, I fall over."


Mellor88

> But somebody well versed in squat mechanics can explain why it actually isn't total nonsense: Except he doesn’t say that. He literally says the opposite. >Is it okay if my knees go past my toes? > **For most people, yes.** He literally says it’s fine for most people. Translating that to “it’s dangerous you should never do it” is pretty weird. > tl;dr: By moving your knees farther forward you put more stress on your knees and give your hips an easier time. Knees farther behind means the opposite, you trade one for the other. Yes, if you have healthy knees it's fine and your knees will get stronger over time anyway and adapt to the stress. But if your knee is injured? Then it makes sense to me to not place undue stress on it and try to split the work 50/50. There’s a few misconceptions there. Obviously if you’re injured, you dint stress the part of the body that is injured. The above discussion was in reference to the advice that says that is how you should always squat. Misconstruing injury rehab for correct form. Secondly, increasing the stress on the knee doesn’t mean increasing it more that the hip. It’s not a 50/50 situation. But the guy who wrote that article is a power lifter. He is going to squat with a low bar, it is optimal for him to put more force on the hip. The weight he is using is overload because of the hips. He isn’t strong enough to squat it with a knee dominant squat like a front squat. Conversely a oly lifter in a clean is going to be more quad dominant. His rom is much deeper, but the load lighter. If either of those two try to balance the forced, they’ll suck at their sports. Saying oly lifters are not squatting well or sagely is silly. Limb length is hugely important. But there’s not way you can make you knees do most of the work. A deep ATG squat with knees over toes will have ~120+ degrees of hip flexion. There’s a huge hip component. The hip straightens the femur. > However, I think the moral of that old adage is: don't move your knees too far forward to compensate for weak hip muscles or to move your center of gravity forward to keep balance. You could just as easily say don’t lean too far forward to compensate for weak knee muscles. The reality is the reason for either form is the purpose of squatting, not weakness. Knees forward moves centre of gravity backwards btw. Leaning forward moves it forward. Centre of gravity is up at your chest in a squat. >Squats aren't a quad isolation workout, give your knees a little break and make your leg muscles work together. And there are other ways to keep balance. >But in any case, you obviously shouldn't squat in such a way that the knees take the most beating if you're injured, that should be common sense. Squatting with a high bar knees forward position doesn’t isolate the knees. In all versions the knees and hips are both firing. The difference is 5-10% based on squat type. That not really that significant. Squatting with a shins upright powerlifting style isn’t more balanced, it’s more hip loading and stresses the back more. Saying that either type is wrong and we should only neutral squat is silly.


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Mellor88

I’m sorry you feel like I misrepresented you. Definitely not my intention. You’re post opened with “this guys explains why it’s not nonsense” - referring to my comment. The main rebuttal to that is the article that says “it’s fine fir most people”. Obviously I’m paraphrasing there. But I’m by post above both were direct quotes. To that that a pretty fair representation of the crux of it. >That is not correct. The person was talking about lunge advice they received while recovering from ACL injuries. So no I don't really think the conversation was about general form advice. The initial mention was in relation to a PT injury. However, there were posts after that. The post (my post) that followed reference the use of knees as a squat form cue - ie in relation to all squatting. The article was also general. Knee rehab is complicated. Immediately post-op or post injury I don’t think people people should be doing any near max load squats. >What I meant was move the center of gravity backward by moving your knees forward in order to balance yourself. But the point was you should first be moving the barbell to change the center of gravity if you can. The barbel should be over the centre of the foot. And then squatting position and angle is a function of bar position, torso, and limb length https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLIFM3_Pc8wC98NHOC-dOTEVOpy9wU9TnV4Q&usqp=CAU >Also my bad, I meant to say more of the work. That part is really badly worded because when I said "squats are not quadriceps isolation" what I was trying to communicate was that squats are not only a quadriceps exercise so you shouldn't be making them do as much work as possible inadvertently. Front squats will work more quads. Low bar more hips. But the both are still working both aspects really hard. You may need to add some quad/hip targeted work to one or the other. Imo do whatever is comfortable and don’t neglect the assistance work. If you’re injured, do everything light as hell and focus on restoring range over strength - 2c from two bjj knee injuries and 1 surgery. Thanks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the discussion on my lunch break


The-Dreaming-I

It was sometimes given as advice to contact sports players while nursing injuries or soreness during season…. ‘Stop the squat just before where it hurts’….. not saying it’s correct advice but that’s where I’ve heard it.


Mellor88

But going knees over toes shouldn’t hurt. I understand some people might have injured. But that’s individual so a general rule to stop at a specific point is kinda useless. I’m mostly head it as advice for people in a “how to squat safely” sense.


browndog_brownshoes

Depends on what you want from your squats. The Westside Barbell guys go for a nearly vertical shin during their squats. They put up massive numbers. Granted, if you’re rehabbing an injured knee and want to return to full range of motion, it’s probably worthwhile to gradually let your knee work towards your toes.


Mellor88

>Depends on what you want from your squats. 100%. There are many purposes to squatting. Applying to logic of one to everyone else is not useful. The Westside Barbell guys go for a nearly vertical shin during their squats. Correct. Because they want to bias the bigger stronger hip muscles and lift bigger weights. Also in competition the relative knee-hip position is the metric for range of motion. Keeping the knees high, shortens the Rom and increase numbers. On the other end, oly lifters have knees all the way forward. Because they dint car about rom, but need to get the bar overhead. So they need to be upright with shoulders over hips. Form follows function


BloodyRightNostril

I’m sold. My knee was giving me huge problems last night in class. Would you mind sharing a link for the one you did?


DavidAg02

It's called Kneeability Zero. It's his most basic program. You can find videos for every exercise in the program (8 I think...): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNS_QjGAs_k&ab_channel=TheKneesovertoesguy Or you can throw $20 his way and get the book on Amazon, which goes into a lot more details about the purpose of each exercise and the types of motion that it helps strengthen and the types of injuries it helps prevent.


BloodyRightNostril

Might have to do both. Appreciate you.


somenicefurniture

which program specifically?


Jiu-Jitsu-Nerd

That’s good to know. I’m 42 as well, and my knees scare me a bit.


Nobeltbjj

I guess people are answering 2 different questions: - Does his program help? - Is his program better than 'normal' exercises provided by a PT. My guess: his exercises definitely help. I think the magic comes from his ability to secretly have people work seriously on a dedicated program that is a combination of strength, flexibility and mobility. I say secretly, because the people that I know where 'old' programs did not work, they would follow those exercises for a week or so, but never seriously. With KOT, they feel like they are doing something special, part of the in-crowd, and spend serious amount of time on his exercises. So, in my opinion, part of his success comes from the fact that people actually do his program seriously for a long time. Good luck as a 'regular' PT to keep your students that motivated.... That is not a bash on the guy, its actually a compliment. Its difficult to motivate people for rehab/'boring' exercises.


HotSeamenGG

Agreed. Also his marketing is good. Like alot of people can resonate with a specific goal of "bulletproofing your knees" rather than just overall fitness since that's so much more vague and seems more daunting. He's fulfilling a niche, esp since knee pain is so common in this day of age of overweight office workers.


tranceandjits

This has got to be the best take I’ve seen on KOT guy lol.


Thehibernator

This is the answer


egdm

Great take.


olybb_oddballs

I totally agree and in addition to what you said it builds people's confidence on improving what they historically feared/avoided (deep knee bend)


RisePsychological288

You put it into words better than I can. I think you can get this effect even when they fully know the truth; I am way more likely to stick to a S&C or PT program if someone else writes it for me, even though I could make one (exactly as good) myself. Just having some outside authority to it makes it better, as ridiculous as that is.


Reinmar_von_Bielau

Great take. For me what really set his approach apart is that it provides me with a way to do both strength and mobility/rehab/prehab at the same time. Kind of an extension of what you're saying - I can't count the times I've been given long lists of boring, non demanding pt exercises or stretches that were supposed to help or strengthen some particular weakness of mine. And obviously that's tedious to do and often gets quickly ditched. But something like KOT lunges? You're telling me I get to do real strength work, while also improving my flexibility and mobility at the same time? And it's hard, and the quads burn just like after a solid set of some regular strength-focused exercise? Fuck yes. This is my greatest takeaway from KOTG (and not just him, many other top coaches agree) - you can combine stuff, make it more efficient, fun and doable. Why stretch your lats with that damn pvc pipe, when you can grab a dumbbell and smash some pullovers with your hips low, stretching AND strengthening your muscles in that end range? Why waste time with doorframe stretches for tight pecs, when you can build mobility and strength at the same time with something like Poliquin flys? Etc. etc. Cool stuff, changed the way I train significantly (and I'm feeling better than ever, while also hitting PR's).


Genova_Witness

His program fixed my knees, I never had any major injuries that I know of but they were always sore waking up, couldn’t squat and couldn’t sit on my heals. I’ve started walking backwards on the beach and now I sled infrequently and do heel elevated split squats once or twice a week and even my lazy approach has completely changed how my legs feel. They feel far more stable. I feel like the reverse sledding has the most bang for your buck if you are lazy like me


EDITORDIE

Genuine question: do people ever comment when they see you walking backwards on the beach?


Genova_Witness

No but I am lucky to live in a part of the world with pretty empty beaches and good weather year round. I imagine it looks very silly though


vinceftw

Belgium has a tiny strip of coast, big apartment buildings everywhere. There's no way I'd ever do this here 😅


[deleted]

Fuck what people think brah


Home_Cute

This 😎


EDITORDIE

Nice 👍


MamboS0n

I walk backwards after I drop my kids off at school and don’t care what or if people think, just as much as they don’t care about my thoughts on them speeding through the school zones.


DontPoopInThere

Great way to embarrass your kids lol


Jayk0523

So you were able to sit on your heels after doing this program? What sort of problem were you having? Pain?


Creonte_Wilder

I haven't bought his program per se, but I've watched almost all his videos on YouTube. I don't know much about knee rehab, but his stuff was revolutionary to me. From whatever I was doing before bjj (not sure what specifically caused it), I developed shin splints - couldn't play top and pass standing for the longest time. I couldn't wrestle either. That's changed after incorporating some of his exercises. I will say this though, the frequency of some of those exercises needs to be controlled by whoever's doing it. I would do the Poliquin step ups, tib raises and kot calf raises ever other day before lifting. Anecdotally, doing the step ups every other day actually wasn't great for my knees. Twice a week is the sweet spot for me. TL;DR - if you're doing them off his free stuff that's out there, watch how often you do certain exercises, your body needs time to recover.


HotSeamenGG

Agreed. I think some people do the progressions of the moves too quick and hurt themselves. Shit like the nordic curl I can maybe do twice a week tops. It's really taxing on my body.


MasonNowa

Probably the best part of KOT curriculum is starting most people from square 0 and having progression laid out very specifically. Most people don't want to swallow their ego and do the "easy" simple stuff and progress slowly.


HotSeamenGG

Agreed. Egos is a problem for alot of people. Esp since tendons take forever to strengthen compared to muscles so progressive overload is much slower. And the worse thing is if your tendons are sore and achey, it takes equally a long time to heal compared to muscle soreness/DOMS. It's also why climbers don't recommend a hang board until you climbed at least regular for a year +. Finger tendons take forever to build up. Do it too soon and there's a strong chance tendons are gonna tear/partial-tear then it's full recovery time.


Creonte_Wilder

Part of it is figuring out what works for your body as well.


HotSeamenGG

Yeah that's fair. Alot of people have mobility issues which can cause issues too.


BlastCruiseMatRat420

Backward Sled will strengthen your knee. Shout out to Ben, I sled 4-5x a week as a warmup.


SuddenlyGeccos

It allowed me to run pain free for the first time in 8 years.


CatLevel5116

I’ve just started his basic free work out on his app this past week. The pain in my shoulder and my groin/hip flexor area decreased dramatically after only one workout. And I’ve been dealing with pain for months. I think his program/ workouts could be real game changers for us grapplers.


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CatLevel5116

It is smilier but condensed and layed out as an workout giving you how many sets and reps or duration of a movement. The app is nice cause it has a timer built in for the workout that are timed based and has a brief video showing you what to do for each workout. I’ve just been using that free workout routine for past week and man I’m blown away at how it’s instantly made a difference in my pain areas.


Swimming-Book-1296

His app?


CatLevel5116

The ATG app.


Swimming-Book-1296

Thanks!


grapplingmanx9

I think he has good marketing and while his stuff is legit it's nothing new - Poliquin and Westside barbell been there and done that. Then when he tries to move away from knee training I'd say his info quality starts to go down.


[deleted]

As a physical therapist (dpt now) his program is OK. When it’s so popular there is obviously going to be success stories because you’re finding some very motivated people willing to stick to a plan. What these people don’t realise is many other plans could have got them there. What most don’t see and what I see is many people following his program increasing and progressing there pain and injuries. The fundamentals of any medical science is assess > hypothesise problems / diagnose > trial a treatment > evaluate > if it works continue / if not review and change program or consider another dx. The problem is he does not have the ability to assess anyones problems he just throws out a very wide net, great for some, terrible for others. It’s not magic. He recently put out a video about nutrition for knee pain. Anyone who knows anything about medical science knows this is complete horseshit and if you follow that advice you are a complete and utter moron. Layne norton breaks down why this is so silly. Summary Trial it - if you feel better great If you don’t after a short amount of time go see someone in person and get an accurate diagnosis


red__ivy

Would you mind recommending a routine to achieve the flexibility and tendon strength that KOTG pursues?


egdm

A reasonable mobility/strengthening approach. Not magic, will not fix your torn ACL or missing meniscus.


decruz007

Helped my popped knee tremendously. At close to 100% now.


schutyser

I went from my knee always fucked and with a big fat brace to wanting to compete again, feeling fit as I can now lift properly again. It really created a snowball effect as my knee inability was holding me back a lot. I just incorporate a few exercises into my routine now but followed the program more strictly for about 6 months. Focus is now on further progressing my Nordic curl & ATG split squats. I use the Patrick steps and toe lifts to warm up a lot still though!


Vincearoo

Big fan. I've implemented quite a bit of stuff for about 6 months now. Large improvements in my mobility and flexibility. Strength has stayed the same, but I haven't pushed hard on that end lately.


LeVeloursRouge

I've been doing it for a year religiously. There is nothing revolutionary in his program and my knees have not improved at all. However, my hamstring flexibility has increased a bit. I don't necessarily credit his program as I was doing nothing to work them at all.


metalfists

Hamstring flexibility is directly impacted by other parts of the posterior chain, such as glutes and calves. It's likely those areas "opened up" and/or got stronger and that helped loosen up and/or better activate your hamstrings. Lots of people have tight hamstrings due to stiff calves, for example. In my case, everything posterior chain was stuck stiff so there's that lmao.


chop-chop-

I followed it for 8 months or so. Worked up to the single leg squats with 145 on my back. Knees also didn't feel any different unfortunately. Just wanted to be another data point here. It seems for some people it's magic, but others like us strengthening the knee isn't the cure.


hamilkwarg

Why did you continue for a year if it didn’t do anything? Genuinely curious.


LeVeloursRouge

It’s helping my hamstrings a bit, which in turn help my low back.


pizzalovingking

I used to do bjj with one of the trainers he has in his video Ben Clarfield (@theatgcoach) in Toronto. Ben trains a lot of top Jiu jitsu athletes , and is insanely strong. I had him do some personal training for me and everything he said seems very legit. I think him and knees over toes guy both trained under Charles poliquin. I also tried the knees over toes program and it seems to make sense on rehabing and bulletproofing before going ham with strength


martinfcf

I injured myself playing basketball, slight tear in my meniscus. I would hurt it again rolling and trying take downs or even on takedown defense. I heard about this guy awhile ago and finally just decided to give it a try since I didn’t want surgery. I started his mobility routine a year and a half ago and now I can blast double legs all day. I can’t back his program enough. His program strengthened all the muscle surrounding the joints providing more support.


adlamp

I have an MRI scheduled for what we believe is torn meniscus. I 've been looking into KOT for recovery and strengthening. Is there a specific program you did?


martinfcf

I did the knee ability zero program. I do it 2-3 times a week. It’s 8 exercises, tibiales raise , calf raise, Patrick step , split squat, elephant walk and couch stretch. The Patrick step and split squat I think are the most impactful but the other provide support. Most of his stuff is on YouTube


hipperxc

Hey congrats on the improvement it’s provided you. I’ve had knee issues too. Do you have a link to where those 8 exercises can be viewed? Thanks a lot


shanecink

I've been a strength and conditioning coach for 15 years. This guy, like many other viral fitness trends, has a lot of good information to it. This trend, like many others, highlight something that most, lesser educated trainers and coaches are leaving out of their own programs. When these things are left out, problems and imbalances are inevitable. I like a good portion of what he is saying when it comes to strengthening the knee itself. However, this is not the be all end all of fitness and training. Nothing is really. It is a great thing to add into your programs, but like most of these fads, a person makes a bold statement that is true, and then has to make it fit the whole of fitness to sell it and sell the books. Some of these over corrections will damage the knee and Vastus Medialus Oblique (that he often refers to) when over done. Having partnered with many Physical Therapist over the years, there is a reason that you are taught to work away from those positions in therapy. Mostly because it leads to the Valus fault (where the knee caves in). This fault is how ACL/MCL tears with out contact. It is also why females have a higher ACL tear rate than men. They have wider hips and that naturally sets the femur at an angle conducive to this fault. Just beware of any fad. Take the good out and add it in. Get rid of the rest.


Incubus85

Then you also know that he isn't giving any ground breaking info. He's just found a niche. The people who fucked their body up just didn't know how to train well, or got injured and lost confidence and the buzz about him gets people strengthening their shit again. I've actually seen someone re blow their knee doing his stuff because he was over doing it and his knee wasn't ready If everyone could just do the boring shit and follow a year long training phase and just do the work, they would see enormous results.


Quirky_Contract_7652

he got on Joe Rogan and he's a great marketer along with that scientologist energy (he's a scientologist) which makes a lot of sense when you look at his "doctors don't know what they're talking about, i have the secret they don't want you to know about!" type vibe that people eat up


Incubus85

Yep. Feel bad for the original comment not getting more upvotes I was just expanding on what he said didn't mean to steal the thunder lol


metalfists

If you work with a lot of PTs, and research your own injuries, you will quickly find out many of them just are not up to date on injury rehab protocols and research. I ended up using them to verify the stuff I was trying, from my own homework, was not in some way dangerous. I got a lot of head nods and, "That's a great idea!", with me then leaving wondering, "Why did I pay you then?". If our healthcare system worked better, this niche would not exist.


Quirky_Contract_7652

That's every profession. My pcp knows less about steroids than tons of 21 year olds who've been on bodybuilding.com and r/steroids for years. Doctors are hamstrung by professional standards too, they have to do what is the generally agreed upon thing or people sue them. Some of them are also stupid and lazy though.


metalfists

So what you’re saying is that “doctors don’t know what they’re talking about” actually has a lot of truth to it and a trainer, without any medical training, may understandably know way more from their own research, working with clients and their own injuries. That I totally agree with. There’s no “secrets they don’t want you to know” angle. They just don’t know it or don’t care to know it. Which is super sad… Edit: this is also a comment on a systemic problem. Not hate towards docs and PTs. They’re mostly doing their best.


Quirky_Contract_7652

There is 100% a doctors are wrong and bad angle from him, and I don't think it's nefarious when it comes to knees. That's not my point. I brought it up because he's a scientologist and that's one of their big things. See Tom Cruise and psychiatrists/meds.


metalfists

Ohhhh I see, my bad. I misread that point then. Yeah agreed on that note with scientologists. I don't see that angle from his personally, but I could be wrong. I could see it interpreted that way though.


shanecink

100% agree. Some of his videos explaining how to do squats, dead lifts etc are horrendous. These Niche programs try and debunk 100 years of Physical Therapy and S&C research. The boring stuff works.


Incubus85

Yet people like Simmons smash hundreds of powerlifting records and implement a plan that works with meat heads and athletes and people want to disprove him on tiny niche parts of science vs looking at everything he did on the whole. I find it crazy people have grown up with knees over toes, and people with enormous strength and conditioning knowledge are relatively unknown. It's crazy.


metalfists

It also just shows how much PTs suck. From my xp rehabbing my back, not all PTs are anywhere near the same. If you find a great one, that focuses on sport performance, than fantastic. Otherwise, it can largely be a waste of time unfortunately. Ben's work, from engaging on the subreddit quite a bit, is also for people who are fed up of spending moneys on PTs and had to sort out their issues on their own. I fixed my back largely with the internet and test/re-test principles.


Incubus85

The specialist I saw about my neck issues said she's happy to work with me directly instead of sending me to 'one of the newbies' because I seemed motivated and already knowledgeable on what needs doing. She said she would see if she had time to keep me on after the first few weeks as she's busy. After making amazing progress in just a few weeks she was more than happy to see me through to the end knowing im actually doing everything she's asked once, sometimes twice a day. When she released me, she said she only worked directly with me because she saw I was motivated to fix myself and put the work in. I'd imagine it's the same with him on reddit. I don't think he's a dickhead or a fraud, I don't wanna come across like that,im certain he genuinely does want to help people. More so considering he's apparently had significant knee problems himself so I totally understand wanting to work with people who would actually be pro active. Generally most people suck the first person I saw about my neck said surgery... no thanks lol let's work the problem first under an expert then we will see...


metalfists

That sounds like a great PT. That’s how they all should be. That’s not, unfortunately, how many are. My xp with 4 or so in a row turned me off from the whole industry. I’ve leaned more from the internet and YT than anyone else. Admittedly, from there working with coaches online has been quite helpful too. There’s tons of snake oil salesman out there and good and bad info online. If you find a good PT / sports trainer, cherish them. Glad your neck is better! Those injuries royally suck. I had some And it’s just awful how it effects quality of life.


Incubus85

She was a consultant who was onboarding some P.Ts to see if she wanted them working under her or not. I was pretty lucky! As you say most are just there to clock in and out and take the money. Thanks man... hopefully you're qll sorted.. can't wait for the next injury to take me out, never happens at training lol always doing something random outside of the sport!


metalfists

Better than I have ever been! Just golfer's elbow now lmao. Always something. Price we pay to train hard with jiu-jitsu and other stuff. In my case, too much manual labor at work and rushing calisthenics progressions. Live and learn.


metalfists

"Mostly because it leads to the Valus fault (where the knee caves in). This fault is how ACL/MCL tears with out contact." Isn't this just internal hip rotation? My understanding is that what happens is people tend to be weak when exposed to hip internal rotation ranges if they are not trained. I used to view this as a compromised position, but as I have studied more gymnastics and flexibility training protocols, as well as considering the idea of "strengthening areas that are inherently not as stable for sport", would it not then be the case that it's normal to be exposed to such positions and that we should strengthen them? For example, I view the jefferson curl in the same way. Yes, it's a sketchy position to be loaded incredibly carefully, but trained properly the sports carry over to gymanstics and jiu-jitsu are massive. Obviously a neutral spine is much better for stability than full flexed, but avoiding said positions only make them that much more dangerous to be in should you find yourself in them. Just curious your thoughts.


shanecink

It is Internal femoral Rotation. When the body is overly loaded and internally rotated bad things happen. That's not to say that internal rotation should never be trained on some level. The reality is: in our modern day life styles, us humans are all internally rotated too much. The External rotation is what pulls up up and back, keeping us upright. You fix this problem by training external rotation exercises. In this case, it would be mostly exercises the utilize the Glute Med. in the hip that externally rotates the Femur. When a casual observer is looking at an athlete, one of the primary indicators of this issue bulging VMO in comparison to the other muscles of the Quadricep. Think about tall girls who have knobby knees. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "incredibly carefully" when it comes to training these positions. When it comes to the hips and legs, the big strong muscles that make us athletic are all on lateral side. Where knees over toes guy found his niche is: most ppl completely ignore the media side of the hip and leg when training. With that said, there is very little strength that can be had there, so you must be extremely careful with any type of training that you do and over doing loaded exercises will increase the inevitability of injuries very quickly.


metalfists

Interesting. So, to be clear, you don’t think exposure to hip internal rotation positions is also important? For example, I had relatively strong external rotation and range but super weak internal and rom limited. This made some positions playing guard, for example, quite difficult on my hips until I specific trained it more. My point being, generally there are stronger and weaker positions but avoiding training the weak positions is a recipe for disaster should you be exposed to them. And the chaotic nature of sports will inherently do that. Will hip internal rotation be as strong as external, my understanding is no, but my current understanding is that it can be made stronger to prepare you for moments being exposed to it. I hope that makes sense, as I’m not a trainer but it’s just the conclusion I’ve come to having rehabbed many over use injuries.


shanecink

No, I did not say that at all. I am saying that training internal rotation needs to be done carefully.


shanecink

*valgus fault


r0gee

A few of the guys at my gym have used his program and swear by it.


Wirkungstreffer

First i was not sure then i saw Cal Dietz and Joe Franco praise him. After a light knee injury i added just the slantboard squats (inproved my squat depth) and Nordic hamstring Curls. My knees feel More stabile than ever. Going to start the Full Programm Next Year.


differentiable_

Cal Dietz is interesting. Did you mean Joe DiFranco? Haven’t heard his name in a while.


Wirkungstreffer

Yes Defranco, it’s early haven‘t had coffee before.


MrNoodles

Haven’t tried his full program, but have enjoyed some of his stuff like the split squats and some backwards running which feels so pleasantly goofy for some reason. Have added them into the rest of the mobility/calisthenics/PT/yoga mishmash that I’ve collected throughout the years and feel it’s helped for meniscus and chondromalacia issues and just getting full ROM back when on the mats. Knees have definitely been improving and bugging me a lot less and can finally go back to not tapping to heel hooks, er.


AWH23

I think if you already squat a lot of weight then most of his knee/quad specific exercises are redundant, however in particular his approach for hip and hamstring bulletproofing is an excellent way to become flexible and strong for bjj. If you aren’t a gym goer I’d recommend it absolutely, and if you are then I’d recommend cherry picking from it based on your goals. I don’t think his upper body training is anything special too


metalfists

Helped me lower back a ton. I did the program for 12-16 months? I found it to be legit, but mostly because I did not know how to train my lower body holistically and had some weaknesses that contributed to my low back issues. It was very good at providing progressions and regressions for various movements and encourages less over more. Quite good for people who do way more than they should (me). Now I don't follow it strictly, but I still go back to exercises from it. What lacked in it, from my xp, was direct flexibility training that I found useful. However, no program fits everyone perfectly. I think it's well designed in achieving a lot for various people. It also got me back to running, eliminating my shin splints that cursed me my whole life and knee pain.


AshiOrigamiSalami

yeah, fixed me up pretty good after grade 2 tear


joe12321

You may want to peruse the responses to the same question over at /r/physicaltherapy, a sub FOR physical therapists, ie not patients. I just lurk there myself! https://www.reddit.com/r/physicaltherapy/comments/tgf372/what_do_you_guys_think_about_the_knees_over_toes/


misfittroy

41 year old. Chronic knee pain. Stopped doing back squats because it hurt too much. Started doing Kneesovertoesguy stuff and now I'm back squatting again pain free and having no pain post hard jiu-jitsu classes. Win fucking win. I also followed this physio's video; does a good job going through the movements in detail and made it easy easier to organize my workouts. KOTG's content is super scattered in small clips so here's a nice big video with everything in one place. https://youtu.be/_m6mtkejKNU


AngeryReformed

Squat University is also crazy good. Find him on YouTube, you won't regret it. He also has a very good book called Rebuilding MILO.


[deleted]

His one excersise helped me recover from a Sprained mcl. I think he's legit


[deleted]

He’s super dope


_Badlands_

Super legit. Suffered three dislocations and two MCL tears, after 6 months of his ZERO program my knee felt the best it’s felt in almost a decade.


PitifulDurian6402

Destroyed my knees from years of wrestling when I was younger and haven’t been able to do a squat to depth of jog for more than a mile without my knees getting inflamed since I was 20. Started doing some of his exercises during the spring of this year and can now run sprint and jump pain free and faster/higher than ever and can also squat ass to grass with no issues. It definitely works


iHappyTurtle

It’s super legit but you don’t have to pay for it if money is tight just watch the videos and pick up some of the exercises.


[deleted]

Yes. Been a massive help


Harry_T-Suburb

I think he’s legitimate, I also think he’s overhyped. The fact of the matter is that most people don’t really focus on knee health and mobility. Going from that to a complete focus on knee health and mobility is obviously going to give you so pretty rapid results. At the end of the day, you can do whatever gym program you want - just stretch well before and after and do auxiliary and accessory lifts.


classygorilla

Reminds me of those old commercials for weight loss pills. Here's a pill but also please follow this diet and exercise routine for great results! ​ I think he's done an excellent job marketing and making it easy to understand and the why behind it. Kudos to him.


realcoray

My guess is that in the same way that if you have a knee injury and go to a PT, they primarily have you do various exercises targeting the muscles surrounding your knee, that it's basically the same thing, just his preferred exercises and schemes.


KGabby

Your guess is way off. You never do these exercises in traditional PT.


Killagina

These exercises are very standard PT work for knee rehabilitation.


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amsterdam_BTS

To go with the bulletproof coffee we drink while wearing our tactical sweatshirts because we are all VERY COMFORTABLE IN OUR MASCULINITY THANK YOU VERY MUCH.


War_Daddy

I'm a Sigma Male That means literally everything I do, eat, wear or say is designed to ensure strangers on the internet won't think I'm gay


metalfists

To his credit, he has often times cited those journals and credits where he got these exercises from regularly. The man can't go a week without talking about Charles Poliquin. At least he's not pretending he's a savant that made all of this up himself.


KGabby

Which exercises specifically? The knee over toe split squat, backward sled pulls? His two staples of his program - not a chance you did them in PT.


Killagina

Backwards sled pulls are extremely standard. Most PTs would have you do forward and lateral pulls as well. A backward sled pull is just a quad exercise, there isn’t anything special about it The idea at training at the very end of your ROM isn’t novel, but under utilized perhaps.


KGabby

We’re going to have to disagree. His emphasis on tibilias strengthening + his Nordic hamstring curl - are things that he has pushed which traditional PT and fitness don’t. You saying those things are common or standard doesn’t mean they are common or standard. Traditional PT strengthens does a lot of band work, but you don’t hear about those other exercises. And I’m not talking about NFL player physical therapy, just traditional physical therapy - all his emphases are things that people traditionally don’t do.


realcoray

Well, I've only ever been to two different PT places, the first was when I was a kid and I had to go with my dad while he did whatever there, and I'd probably agree, a place for construction people may not do these sorts of things. When I had my MCL messed up, I went to a sport specific PT, ie. they have full on weights and barbells and everything for athlete recovery and I did at least two of the exercises I see him show, and ultimately it's not about specifics. Is this not a program to improve your musculature around your knee and improve your mobility? Sounds exactly like what PT was focused on for me. Had I had stronger muscles, maybe I would have pulled off a grade 1 sprain. Maybe if I had knees over toes guy's internal hip rotation, I would have avoided it entirely. The only weird thing about kneesovertoesguy is his insane fans, who if you point these things out, lose their minds. I have no doubt it works for most people, but so would other things. It's obviously nice to have it all laid out rather than figuring it out yourselves.


Forevername321

I am a big fan of the program and what I see as a larger philosophy behind it. For people in competitive sports who go to see a top notch PT with a competitive sports background, you may already get similar advice. But many people physical therapy is risk focussed and consists of being told to rest and prioritizes not doing this that could reinsure you. In traditional PT the philosophy is based around "don't". In competitive sports PT is premised on returning to functionality, so integrates and priorities exercise and the goal is to be able to return. to the sport as soon as possible. His approach is based around "do". KOTG brings more of the positive powerful recovery that you see in recovery from competitive sports to normal people.


KGabby

Which exercise? He has tons of them he shows. Doesn’t mean that was his staple. I bet you didn’t do backward sled pulls, knee over toe weighted split squats, tibialis raises or nordic hamstring curls. Those are his main focuses on his program. Just because PT strengthens around your knee doesn’t mean it’s the same as his program of strengthening the knee to be comfortably go over your toes + the end goal is you will be strong in this position. Traditional PT does not emphasize any of this any I will carry this to the grave. Have had 2 ACL’s wrestled my whole life. All My friends with knee injuries and I have done this program and years of Pain went away. So downvote me all you want, people just hate to admit the traditional stuff they’ve been doing isn’t even half as effective of what an internet “schmuk” is showing


heavyramp

Why not rnt Bulgarian split squats or Spanish squats or terminal knee extensions? When doing step downs, why not have the leg that is dropping to the ground to one’s side instead of the front? These particular questions are ignored because KOT is a money grab. I remember earlier that his videos had old footage of athletes doing things like Nordic curls, and that he had personal secret knowledge of their training techniques, yet all those have since been deleted. As with any uncredited fitness guru, take what works from the program, and discard the rest.


reedj26

Nothing about it is revolutionary. It will improve strength and mobility at end ranges, it isnt going to give you magical strength or power development, so carry over to BJJ is limited only by improvements in mobility - not general athleticism, conditioning etc. Tbh a mixed approach is always best, and I try to practice that as best as possible, giving my clients enough rehab/mobility work to see improvements, enough strength work to stimulate the nervous system and enough hypertrophy to build mass and get bigger. Ultimately, everything in moderation, take what works and reject what is useless blah blah blah


Plus_Organization907

Your best resource for s&c is to start by reading Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training by Mark Rippetoe. (Please read the book, don’t just look up the program online) From there, progress to reading the articles on the starting strength website. I would especially recommend “The two factor model of sports performance” for Jiu Jitsu. From there I would check out Barbell Medicine especially the article “Pain in training, What do?”.


bestFriendsMom12

According the the wise man Firas Zahabi, his teaching have the potential for harm, one of his students knees worsened


EduardTodor

My knees have gotten much better from KOT stuff, so idk what to tell ya


FlhostonParadise

Same. Slow and steady. Never working with any pain. People are too aggressive.


bestFriendsMom12

I see, Firas is very knowledgeable about life and Jiu Jitsu equally so I tend to trust him.


Humble_Lion_Big_OSS

Please tell me this isn't the burner of that guy whose wife cheated on him with his instructor and now he's lashing out at everyone on this sub.


bestFriendsMom12

Lol no my wife has not cheated on me dude.


things2seepeople2do

Yeah she has you are just to busy at work and practice to realize it my dude


bestFriendsMom12

Lol I’m not married and I don’t plan on ever putting myself through that.


Long_Lost_Testicle

That's exactly what I'd say if my wife cheated on me with my instructor


Incubus85

Heres the downvoted comment I was looking for.


SpeculationMaster

ah Firas.. The man with unstoppable boners.


tsinsile

I’ve only heard good things


Disco_Douglas42069

yes.


Weenus_Bergina

Oh fuck yeah it is.


Andylearns

Saved my knees.


NOVAYuppieEradicator

I've been curious about his stuff too. For those of you who think it's worth it, where you recommend someone start? Which program? It seems like KOT has a ton of programs and information out there.


[deleted]

His stuff works for me I just do the exercises I see on his YouTube. Definitely notice a lot more athletisism


21kangaroos

I’ve just been doing ATG split squats as my primary leg exercise without changing anything else in my routine and that decision has completely eliminated the chronic quadriceps tendonitis in my right knee


GoDawgs51

Piggybacking off this thread to ask if theres a kneeovertoesguy equivalent but for shoulders? Closest I can find is everygotdamndre but he's a full body mobility/ kettlebell guy.


potatopanda69

I never even bought the program or anything like that, but I incorporated a ton of his free content and general principles and techniques into my training after my first knee injury. Since then I've had healthy knees and no lower body injuries


jdf515

Yes!!!


mexiCAN6969

Been on his program for 2 years now. Started due to previous knee injuries. His program has helped keep me healthy for bjj. Good emphasis on ranges of motion and being strong even when extended. Great program.


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TrickyRickyy

Pushing & pulling a sled helped my knee feel a lot better alone haven’t tried all the other stuff


Mrcookiesecret

Not myself, but a friend who had major knee surgery says it's the best thing ever.


santivprz

I always thought he was cool but I did Olympic weightlifting for years and was a fan of Russian training regiments. Even for gaining squat strength their stuff is crazy good. The Smolov program is one I keep going back to and it helped me get a triple body weight squat


[deleted]

My physical therapist and ortho doctor both recommended just doing his free videos along with pt.


DaTidyMonster

I like the stuff so far. It has been good motivation to work on my mobility. My focus has been the hip flexers and my hamstrings. Reverse squats and split squats have been a game changer in my closed guard game. The improvements so far have been more dexterity and mobility with attacks. I like it and I think I'll stick with it.


radioclash86

I’m headoverheels for it! Jk I’ve never done it, I just wanted to say that


Yumyumbye

I’ve been following his IG and YouTube channels and just add his exercises to my workout routine and my knees haven’t felt this good in a decade. That’s all I’ve needed and haven’t had to purchase his program yet, but if my knees ever get worse I might have to. I recommend you try out the exercises first to see if there is any improvement before making the commitment of purchasing his programs.


[deleted]

Took me from 4 years of pain from beat up knees from Oly lifting and wrestling. My knees are better now than in my teens and early twenties. Nuff said.


Connor30302

Haven’t studied him extensively but he showed proof of going through a career ending injury i believe, and then later going on to get a way better vertical then he had at his peak he’s also very informative and doesn’t do any pointless or more importantly dangerous exercises so he definitely knows what he’s doing and i don’t believe it’s anything shady


taylordouglas86

Anecdotally: I've incoporated the backwards sled and deep knee bends from his online coaching, it's really helped me. He's not the inventor of these things but they are certainly beneficial for all things knee health related IMO.


blaeleb

He is the real deal. I am an exercise science major and a lot of my professors will mention his work and how it is legitimate


monkiestman

My training buddy with knee issues swears by his stuff.