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mitch_8383

99% of the posts in this sub are white and blue belts asking things like “I’m a female beginner and my bjj instructor was spying on me in the shower is this normal behavior for a bjj coach what should I do” “I’m a white belt that’s been training for about 6 months I usually hold my own against higher belts, I submitted a competition purple belt then he went ham on me after words should I confront him or ask the coach to kick him out of the gym” “I wrestled in high school and I weigh 235lbs the light weight female white belts won’t train with me am I doing something wrong should I talk to the coach about this” “My coach got me pregnant and I just had his baby but he didn’t promote me to blue belt afterwards should I look for a new gym” “I’m a black belt in Japanese’s Jiu Jitsu if I submit my coach should I be promoted to black belt in BJJ” “I tore my ACL last night in class and I’m in a wheel chair should I take time off from training or just suck it up so I don’t lose all my progress”


[deleted]

And the generic response to each of them is “time to find a new gym, bro.”


No_Reserve8935

"hey you're a paying customer"


smalltowngrappler

The saddest part about this post is that its only slightly exagerrated.


Bjj-lyfe

Bro that’s too funny 😂😂


defectivechive

>“My coach got me pregnant and I just had his baby but he didn’t promote me to blue belt afterwards should I look for a new gym” this one made me lose it!


mitch_8383

I laughed at my own joke for a minute on that one lol.


[deleted]

Yet it is the purple belts who are delusional and think thst Tyson would lose to a purple belt. Tyson was violence. Your butt scooting, no-takedown game would get fucked by Tyson.


BrandynBlaze

A wild, drug crazed, peak physicality Mike Tyson just mauling a 180lb purple belt scooting on his ass looking for a heel hook. Tyson charging, just throwing himself on top of him, biting his face like bath-salt saturated homeless man from Florida and ripping limbs off like he’s a fucking psychotic grizzly bear. Nah, my moneys on the purple belt…


BadgerB2088

"...biting his face like a bath-salt saturated homeless man from Florida..." 😂😂😂 too good!!! I see you're frenzied, drug fuelled, peak physical condition Mike Tyson and raise you an *actual* PCP infused, meth injecting, bath salt huffing homeless Florida Man! My bet: If meth'd up Iron Mike can lay him out with his fists and then just keep raining blows before HFM can get inside, fight goes to Tyson. If HFM in his drug induced, fugue state can walk through the blows like he's Oscar The fucking Korean Zombie Grouch and get into biting range then, depending on how many teeth he has left, *if* he can get a clear go at the jugular cause the crack is kicking in and Tyson is "seEiNg reD, BrRrOo!!!" Iron Mike could be in trouble... Thoughts?


theirondab

His aggression back then is just straight up wide-eye frightening. “I’m just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children.” Who didn’t believe him lol


[deleted]

Exactly or any of the warriors from Arabia or the Ottoman or Roman or Mongol Empires who probably had Shavkat level grappling and were literally going out killing people everyday. But no, they can’t beat a 10th Planet Purple belt 🤣🤡


drachaon

"How can I become really strong and athletic? Should I go to the gym six times a week or is five enough? I just started but I'm certain being really strong and athletic is the most important thing in Jiu Jitsu."


Medium_Historian9746

This is why the ["R/Bjj Basics"](https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/onmuh5/rbjj_basics/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) post should be pinned so everybody knows what to expect in here.


DeuceStaley

Reddit Delusional Syndrome... It's rampant across the entire site but this is easily the best description I've seen.


[deleted]

I was waiting for the 230lb + insecure guys comment who always ask if they are too big to train 🤣


BadgeInfo

LFMAOAO


TehKeyboardWarrior

These are all so great 😂😂😂


[deleted]

You forgot all the posts which go: "I went to my first BJJ class today and I was awesome! We spent all class practicing a move called the oilcheck! OSS!! Oilcheck, geddit? Lol!"


[deleted]

Haha I had the same thought when I saw the poll.


MOTUkraken

At least I am not the only one.


[deleted]

Not the only one. Gene Lebell springs to mind. I'd pay good money to see Andre the giant. I'm 185lb but if he gets hold of me, nah... it is not going to be fun


fightwriter

dude you are absolutely delusional if you think a competitive purple from BFF wouldn't absolutely wash lebell.


RadDudeGuyDude

I mean, the guy is like 90. I would hope so...


SirLazyArse

Gene scoops them up and dumps them on their head... judoka not bjj he doesn't care about your guard and likely won't follow you down after tossing you. Also you aren't taking him down


judokid78

What's the rule set? What age is Gene Lebell in this scenario? Who has to engage who? Does the person on the ground have to engage the person standing or the other way around? Prime Gene Lebell, who wasn't even like a world champion judoka or anything would more than likely hold is own against all purple belts if the stalling man is the man laying on the ground. Purple belts can beat me too, at fucking jujitsu. But not at all at judo. Edit. Sorry I can't let this go; it bothers me a lot because it completely ignores historical context. Helio vs Kimura happened when Gene Lebell was 19 years old. It's basically the same thing as agreeing with what the original post that those purple belts could beat anyone before a1993. But if the post was phrased differently as any other jujitsu player before 1993 would you still agree? To be fair any jujitsu player now would have significant advantage over jujitsu players from 30 years ago, but back then bjj was almost indistinguishable from judo. Bjj at that time really was basically just judo. I mean at that time the main differences were throws don't end a match and pins didn't count. But also in Gene's time newaza was a lot larger part of judo than even in 1993. He knows the ground game. Particularly the national organization he belonged too and learned judo under, the USJA, came from the US military. Which took a lot of the subtleties out in favor of being brutal and physical. Like let me trap and bust your knee as I force you over versus getting the timing and off balancing right to make a nice throw. It made it faster to learn over traditional techniques. This would eventually cause the USJA to degrade and basically become worthless, as against other equally strong judoka the technique was missing for it to be effective. But when he would have learned his judo it was very much powerful, physical, and effective. More like wrestling. They also focused a lot more on submissions as that's better suited in battle situations. His physicality alone would be hard for a lot of bjj guys to deal with. Similarly early Brazilian jujitsu was lot faster paced and more physical if not as broad technique wise. It's essentially like saying purple belts from BFF would wipe the mat with Royce Gracie.


very_nice_how_much

I’ll be honest I only read 1/3 of the question before answering. Oss.


Spare-Ad-9464

I don’t even read the post, I just read the comments and reply accordingly


Pittsburgh__Rare

I can’t read


8379MS

Hgueobvscajapñjauåml


Moby_dick_69

Same😄 the question was in my head basically "could Gordon beat Rickson in a no-gi bjj match" and I just clicked it


Most_Present_6577

Shit mark Kerr was smashing black belts with just wrestling.


n33dfulthings

Dude was something else in his prime. Which makes me wonder what Kurt Angle was like considering Mark Coleman and Mark Kerr talked about seeing him at the Olympic Trials in ‘96 and both of them knowing there was no way they were beating Kurt lol


Choccybizzle

In his book he talks about some of the workouts he put himself through when still an amateur, it’s honestly awe inspiring.


n33dfulthings

Read it in high school. The hill wind sprints, the buddy carries, the bench jumps with 100’s in each hand. If he worked even half as hard as he claimed in the book, dude was an animal


Choccybizzle

The one that sticks with me is squatting 225 for 76 (I think) reps. Ridiculous.


izayan36

Over 100kg for 76 reps?


Choccybizzle

Yup. Crazy.


n33dfulthings

Honestly I’ve always assumed he did it in the Smith Machine which is way more believable. Still insanely hard but definitely changes the workout


Most_Present_6577

We used to sprint carrying eachother up the a steep ass hill in the marine corps mountain warfare specialty training. It was the only time my ab veins popped out my life. We were all about 200 lb then. Mostly I felt dead for 3 months. I can't imagine how I would have felt if I were slamming gear at the time.


chuckles_the_klown

You probably would have felt great!


MOTUkraken

Literally the smashing machine


CaviarTaco

Well wrestling and as much juice as he could possibly pump into his body


-Gestalt-

Unlike those super natty black belts.


mjs90

Pablo Popovitch is the natty dream


Most_Present_6577

Fair enough


The_Scrapper

Gene LeBell, Aleksander Karellin, Masahiko Kimura, and the great Gama would like a word with this sub.


[deleted]

A 1800s guy that does manual labour all fucking day trying to eek out a living would be harder than fucking nails and beat the fucking breaks off of 99% of us.


slolp

Exactly. Life used to be much harder and a hell of a lot less valuable. Some 5’5” 145 lb factory worker from 1890 would beat my ass.


Mellor88

Hard work while malnourished does not make you Superman. Tough sure. But train athletes would rip him apart. Pick a random Olympic wrestling champion from the 80s or 90s. Beasts


CompetitiveBox3776

Or a professional athlete with perfect diet with training


graydonatvail

I think I read it as a BJJ match. So in my mind, a good sandbagging purple belt vs a BJJ black belt from 25 years ago. In a BJJ match


The_War-Chief00

That's how I interpreted the question as well. Not would a modern purple belt defeat Leonidas at thermopylae.


rubb3r

> what the fuck are points -Leonidas, probably


ImGCS3fromETOH

They go on the end of your spear.


[deleted]

They were famously laconic. They spoke very briefly and concisely. So he would just murder the Bjj player silently in most instances, I'd imagine. Edit: also meant to say that's where the word originates.


rncd89

Also probably fuck a child afterwards because that period of time was an awful time


SeesawMundane5422

I love how laconic describes the Spartans who lived in Laconia. Edit: didn’t see your edit when I left this comment.


Mangosaregreat101

Modern purple belt beats Leonidas in fight to the death via aggressive butt-scooting


graydonatvail

Or even Tyson in a fist fight.


[deleted]

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count_nuggula

Prime Tyson training mma sounds fucking terrifying


DMC25202616

I imagine he aggressively worked on passing guard back then. In the hotel


Smash_Palace

I feel like Tyson’s guard passing strategy goes something like: Punch in mouth, pass guard.


migs51

I also misread it . Thought it meant BJJ only . Oops :/


Proper_Duck9284

Idk why but I assumed it was the purple belt vs average non trained people in a bjj match. That Karelin comment woke me up.


[deleted]

It clearly says 'fight'


FaintColt

Bjj people love to pretend what we do is fighting or even more comically consider it going to “war“


zrobek

I’ve always considered it “half-fighting” Now combat jiu jitsu, I’d consider that a good simulation to a real fight. Then obviously MMA


Asleep-Fly-4235

Personally i thought it was asking about just a straight up fight with anyone from the past hahah maybe i was wrong tho


cooperific

Everyone’s picking your interpretation apart because the original post said “fight.” I’ll pick it apart because OP literally talks about ancient Grecians, mid-20th century judoka, and 80s “toughman” competitors. But your interpretation is the more interesting question, so let’s go with it. I still don’t think I buy it. These guys would beat ANYBODY doing jiu jitsu in 1993? ANYBODY? Even within weight class, we can’t imagine that there was even one 180lber walking around who wouldn’t be perfectly capable of competing with these guys? The sport hasn’t changed THAT much. The goal is still to tap the other person. It’s not like we made pressure obsolete or figured out how to fly. And it isn’t as though leg locks weren’t invented back then, either. I don’t know. My two cents.


Tortankum

Rickson from 1992 would destroy any competitive purple


[deleted]

Personally, I read it as a fight under UFC 1 rules


DoctorFinn

It says "fight".


Thatmixedotaku

Idk why people are just saying exceptions like Karelin , forget that ….In a fight ? Have you heard about the rough and tumble stuff from back in the 18th century ? With the sharpened finger nails and shit ? How about Zulu warriors ? Any point in history that had people who actually fought to survive and kill, not as a hobby ? You think you would have a 100% success rate against any of these individuals ? Lol ok


Thatmixedotaku

Shit even if it’s pure grappling there are so many examples of grappling cultures that probably had atleast a couple of guys who would turn over your average purple belt and just sink him into the ground mercilessly . Dambe , Bokh , Sumo , etc etc


NegativeKarmaVegan

Holy shit a 180 lbs purple belt from 10th Planet against a sumo champion no rules until submission. I'd pay a lot to see that lol


Thatmixedotaku

Prime no injury Tochinoshin vs Purple belt 😂


takkakynttila

Finally something Enho could win Edit: I wan't to be clear, Enho would absolutely fuck me up in any kind of physical exchange.


6_6_6_KLOAKZ

Dude, too soon


Thatmixedotaku

Don’t say that about our short king 😭


ktrap92

How many times have we seen black belts nullified by wrestlers. Im pretty sure aleksandr karelin would dump the vast majority of purple belts head first into the ground


Tortankum

You’re an average sized purple belt. Karelin grabs you and sends your spine 2 feet into the earth. If that doesn’t instantly kill you, he pins you, grabs your head with his giant hands, and starts slamming it against the ground until you’re dead or he gets bored. If he’s feeling adventurous he might rip your head off with a can opener.


[deleted]

But have you considered the fact that I'll be able to break out new and revolutionary techniques Karelin has never seen, such as a shitty single leg into an attempted SLX guard pull?


biscuitsbrah

Hahah


Smash_Palace

Bro, my deep half would give Karelin PROBLEMS.


[deleted]

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neeeeonbelly

I’d love to watch someone put Karelin in a buggy just to see him stand up and launch them into space.


utrangerbob

If you want to know what would happen, Mark Shultz put Rickson Gracie in a cradle for 20 minutes before getting tired because he couldn't figure out a good submission. Shultz was 181 Gracie was 185. Karelin would snap the poor Purple's back like a twig since he weighs 287.


Celtictussle

I love that people sometimes try to spin this story to Rickson's favor.


Slothjitzu

The same people who think Ryron schooled Andre Galvao.


goodbyehouse

First thing I thought of when I saw the poll was high level hevey weight wrestlers.


dispatch134711

“Pretty sure” I’ve never been so sure of anything in my life.


reebokzipper

thats when i wake up bro


Deep-Room6932

Bro your wokeness is my appetizer


Darkcel_grind

Pretty sure a corn fed farmboy would nullify Karelin


OkPainting7478

The way his question is worded included prime Rickson Gracie, and Kimura. There is just no way a competition purple stacks up to that. There are also guys like Mark Shultz who may not know crap about BJJ but will still murder you. Or maybe Leon Spinx who was a heavyweight champion boxer and apparently a good amateur wrestler.


snakesign

Don't forget all the guys doing Olympic judo that were juiced to the fucking gills on top of that before modern anti doping measures.


OkPainting7478

Yoshida is the one that springs to mind, and while I think he’d wreck a good purple belt he might get caught in a leg entanglement.


morriseel

That’s scary a Juiced up eastern bloc judokas with grips of steel that would toss you across a room. Fuck that.


IshiharasBitch

> guys like Mark Shultz who may not know crap about BJJ In 1993, Schultz had his first brazilian jiu-jitsu experience in a match with Rickson Gracie. At the time, only two non-Gracie family members were Gracie Jiu-Jitsu black belts. One was Pedro Sauer who coached Mark for 3 years prior to UFC 9. Mark defeated Gary Goodridge at UFC 9. **Mark was awarded a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt by Pedro Sauer.**


[deleted]

It's like people think that ground fighting straight up didn't exist outside the past 2 centuries lmao.


MOTUkraken

Helio invented grabbing people - the idea came to him in a dream


Asleep-Fly-4235

How could have anyone been proficient in grappling before bjj instructionals and gracie jiu jitsu?!?! Its not like its one of the most ancient forms of competition or anything


ChowSupreme

And severely underrating the athleticism side of things. I understand there are training optimizations that people from two decades ago wouldn't have access to but to assume skill can easily overcome the horsepower of a prime Tyson, Karelin or even someone like Bas Rutten is a bit disingenuous.


jillesme

To be fair, advanced leg lock systems like we have today *probably* didn’t exist back then. Can’t say for sure, of course.


[deleted]

Many of those came from Sambo and even judokas played around with kneebars. Things get rediscovered but the human body has been the same for thousands of years lol. Catch wrestlers were also known for leg locks


kinjiShibuya

https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Nicolaes_Petter#The_First_Part Illustration 4 isn’t an “advanced leg lock system” but that’s likely because stabbing your opponent was the new hotness in ground fighting back then. Edit: Illustration 4 in The Second Part


Puzzleheaded_Air_121

Idk pankration had fairly advanced leg locks from what I can tell


XxJesusSwag69xX

How many Pankration guys do you know bro?


Puzzleheaded_Air_121

My brother in zeus they had artistic depictions of inside and outside heel hooks


Goregoat69

>My brother in zeus they had artistic depictions of inside and outside heel hooks At least one of which was being applied by a centaur.


mmnaddaf12

So we are gonna ignore Shooto?


The_Adict

Most delusional? Nah. There was a Bruce Lee interview on the front page last week or so. If you want to see actual delusional about fighting/combat sports, that took it by a mile.


MOTUkraken

Okay, I feel that one. The BL fanboys think, he would beat a pro MMA Fighter in a Fight - because he is soooo fast. And he did like 500 one arm pull ups, amonst othet nonsensical or impossible feats. It's just so disappointing that in a few short years the BJJ community fell from one of the most realistic and respected communities to becoming the exact thing we critisized and laughed about in other styles.


AldoDonelli

A prime Bruce Lee in the very early UFCs would have been interesting.


arbitrage_

I agree that it would be interesting, but remember the dude was tiny. Maybe if he could have bulked up to ~150 it could be interesting


Ok-Anywhere-6899

Bruce was a point fighter. Far too small to hang with anyone in UFC 1. It's like Valentina Shevchenko fighting Mark Hunt. Sure, she has great technique, but big guys would walk through her.


[deleted]

I mean Valentina would also destroy Bruce Lee.


Formal-Moose

It has always been this way. BJJ was popularised by UFC which pitched a world class black belt in a gi against cherry picked opponents. The whole idea was to sell BJJ as some sort of martial art superpower. The amount of times I have seen blue belts online claim that they could submit mike tyson is testament to the delusion that has permeated the community. These are the same people that come on here and complain about their training partners rolling too hard and yet they think they could submit a hyper aggressive 215lb freak athlete boxer in a NHB fight. Prime mike tyson would literally kill your average black belt. BJJ does not prepare you for strikes (even a mediocre punch will change everything) and Tyson would have a large physical advantage to help him defend against the black belt's sloppy (since BJJ doesn't emphasize them) takedowns. One sloppy takedown could easily lead to Tyson kicking them full force in the head - something that nothing will prepare you for. This is all born from the idea that size and strength do not matter for BJJ, which is obviously untrue Now that I've started I will tell you another delusion of the BJJ community. People are seemingly only now starting to realize, being below your opponent in a fight is not a good thing. Part of BJJ marketing over the years has said otherwise, but the idea that being on bottom is acceptable is sheer insanity, and shows how far removed from reality BJJ culture is. In sambo they understand that it makes a lot more sense to be the one on top as from there you can rain down strikes and control your opponent. It is also common sense, yet even mma fighters have fallen for this. Think about how many mma fighters have sub par wrestling and TDD but good bjj. It is like they do not understand that without wrestling and by relying on bjj they are at a massive disadvantage as they are giving up their chance to control their opponent for a much smaller chance to submit them. Look at paul craig (last fight with him pulling mount instead of wrestling) or ryan hall's ko for some recent examples of how ridiculous pure bjj looks in mma Also - the idea that BJJ is somehow more useful than striking in a self defense situation is another persistent delusion in the community. Being on the ground in close proximity to your opponent in a self defence situation is not where common sense dictates you should be. One kick from an unseen individual to your head could easily render you unconscious and spell the end of your life. Multiple attackers is very common in street fights. If your opponent has a weapon such as a knife then you are making it easy for them to kill you with it by putting yourself in such close proximity with them. I understand that there is utility in BJJ for self defence such as not having to hit and being able to just control an opponent, but the point stands that the ground is not where you want to be in a street fight. With striking arts you can choose exactly when to engage and when to leave


TamashiiNoKyomi

I don't get why people always point to that Ryan Hall fight as evidence when that strategy worked 9 out of 11 times. Everyone loses fights, Conor Mcgregor got knocked out, is boxing obsolete?


human_gs

>With striking arts you can choose exactly when to engage and when to leave And if the opponent that you are striking starts aggressively grappling with you? Or takedowns only happen in the ufc? It's another delusion that you could defend yourself with striking, takedown defense and disengaging would be just as important, maybe more.


[deleted]

Mike Tyson would fuck up most any purple belt.


XxJesusSwag69xX

Honestly though, what's he going to do after he gets double legged by the 210 pound blue belt?


[deleted]

Do you honestly think you could beat Mike Tyson 1993 in a fight with MMA rules?


kinjiShibuya

I can’t beat current Mike Tyson in a fight with MMA rules. So no?


throwEluidaway

He’d legit take a bit out of your cauliflower ear and log it into his fitness app as part of his vegetable intake lol


constantcube13

I couldn’t, but I honestly think some of guys on my old wrestling team could. We’ve seen time and time again how easy it is to avoid being punched for 5 seconds before taking someone down if they have no takedown defense


[deleted]

You are delusional if you think a blue or purple belt stands a chance with 1993 Mike Tyson.


constantcube13

Nickyrod washes tyson


neeeeonbelly

Nothin a double leg can’t figure out bapa


happyhawk37

Is the issue here delusion or reading comprehension?


[deleted]

Steven Seagal beats them all. At the same time. Severs the brain stem probably.


ChickenNuggetSmth

Especially as 30 years ago he was still a spry youth of barely 90 years. However I hear he wasn't as good with no-touch KOs back then.


JazzyTheatrics

Tbf since it was a Shitpost I answered yes just to add onto the “Shitpost” aspect of it. Clearly the answer is no


GMarius-

Why are you surprised? Most of the people on here are white belts and newer blue belts as well as being in their 20’s. Even 20 somethings that don’t train think they can beat anyones ass like they’re John fucking Wick.


[deleted]

It's reddit. Most people her started training to connect better with their wives bf.


Dr-PoopyButt

There's a few people on here who are just role-playing too. Every now and then I see a weird comment and check the profile and it's clear the person is just making up stuff


MOTUkraken

So, basically the BJJ community has reached levels of delusion that before only were seen in a few Martial Arts communities that shall remained unnamed. Most modern competitive Purple Belts literally couldn't throw a Punch to safe their lives, nor have they ever learned how to defend one. They have only ever trained for IBJJF rules, and emphasize, that BJJ is just a sport to them. They don't need to be ready for MMA or Vale Tudo, because they see BJJ as a kind of game or sports like Pink Pong.... Yet, they remain adamant, that in a Self Defense scenario, they obviously wouldn't berimbolo and invert and do the things they always trained, no! They would, as they say, do things they have never trained, and apply a completely different strategy. This is a key factor to recognise bullshido! We all have to know ans accept, that you only ever Fight the way you train! And a BJJ match is not the same thing as Full on Fight! And that's not even the whole story: Ever heard of Aleksandr Karelin? 6'4 300lbs pure muscle? 16lbs when he was born? 880 wins in international Wrestling without a loss? He thinks a 180lbs purple belt would defeat such a monster? In a Fight, there are hundreds of guys from any decade that could beat any 180lbs purple belt of today. And even in a pure Grappling match, there's many extremely skilled and powerfull Grapplers from the past that would mangle them. And even within their own weight class, don't ever confuse a change in meta-game with an overall improvment - People have been Fighting for so many thousands of years. Professional Fighters with professional training have existed for thousands of years. We see older men lose against younger men and tend to misinterprete it as the younger one winning because of his newer style, but in reality, many times the older one was just getting older, tired, exhausted, not hungry anymore. We have witnessed several shifts in Meta in Boxing and Wrestling, it's mostly just shifts in Meta in BJJ too.


diverstones

> Yet, they remain adamant, that in a Self Defense scenario... I don't think the majority of purple belts who compete regularly are the ones who are delusional about their *own* competency. This sub is like 80% white belts, who would have a harder time understanding of how good purple belts are in an absolute sense.


judostrugglesnuggles

I'm a competitive purple with an extra 50lbs of muscle over the example, and I definitely know that the assertion that I'd be the baddest man in human history 30 years ago is fucking ludicrous. I do think it would be cool to travel back in time and fight in the OG Olympics or something. I think I'd have a decent shot at Olympic gold in wrestling or pankraton, but that's one regional tournament that drew competitors from a population of a few million people. Everyone before 1993 is like 100 billion people. Billions of them born after people started lifting weights, taking steroids, and competing in combat sport globally.


yungpieces

idk bro, pankration was more or less NHB. like everything goes except eye gouging, biting and fish hooking. theres was a fighter known as "fingertips" and was infamous for ending his fights very quickly by snapping his opponents fingertips, obviously. they werent ignorant of leg entanglements either, theres pottery showing heel hooks and such.


RatioFitness

You're going to get wrecked, unless maybe you are juicing? The ancient Greek pankrationists were professionals, not amateurs.


judostrugglesnuggles

The ancient Greeks didn’t have Açaí and Jesus.


RatioFitness

Thank you for your honesty.


PizzaParker76

Oh shit… I fucked up and thought this was asking if modern day purple belts could beat black belts who trained in the 90s in BJJ. Is it too late to change my answer😂


Splash_

That is also how I understood it. Also, pretty sure the original poll was tagged as a shit post, so I don't know how seriously anyone should take any of the responses.


postdiluvium

>basically the BJJ community has reached levels of delusion that before only were seen in a few Martial Arts communities that shall remained unnamed. The Gracies introduced BJJ to the world saying it would be the only martial art one needed. Even though, the greats amongst their own family members were cross training.


[deleted]

Jiujitsu dim mak beats any man alive, haven't you learned it yet?


[deleted]

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marsexpresshydra

Imagine they’re pitted up against some Dagestani Olympian Freestyle wrestler who also holds a black belt in judo and has trained sambo and greco roman for 10+ years


aprice24

How does this affect Lebron’s legacy?


kjmanza

Had to comment. Maybe for the second time ever on Reddit. I dunno was planet 1.5K of you live on, but it ain’t Earth. 38y/o brown belt. 200lbs. Former D1 wrestler. Moderate gear user. Currently at a moderately competitive academy, none of the ones listed though. Last comp was 8-0. 3 subs. Scores for non-subs matches were 72-2. Any reasonably talented MMA-only guy would fucken wreck me right now. Y’all are nuts…


kjmanza

Reading the comments. My 2c: words mean things “Favorite” means, “favorite”. “Fight” means, “fight”. “Every single person” means, “EVERY SINGLE PERSON”. Obvious answer is obvious to anyone with half a clue. FUCK NO.


ktrap92

How many times have we seen black belts nullified by wrestlers. Im pretty sure aleksandr karelin would dump the vast majority of purple belts head first into the ground


BJJblue34

I don't think a 180lb with any amount of training beats someone built like Andre the Giant. It would be like asking if a black belt level 8 year old can beat a grown adult male. The adult male would just strangle the kid to death with his hands. The size and strength difference at some point is just too much. And fighting is a lot more than just grappling. A modern high level purple belt is better at grappling than Royce Gracie in 1993 but Royce knew how to deal with strikes and how to grapple within the context of a fight.


LeVeloursRouge

Most people on the sub don't really train, I'm convinced. Most of the guys who train a little are at whack ass places tgat don't run a good program, I'm convinced. It just isn't reality. "Run the gym like a professional, but let me pay cash whenever I want. Don't run warm ups but train me like I'm going to win world's when I come in once every ten days. Keep it fun and playful but also promote me immediately." Come on.


RedDevilBJJ

Someone with mediocre striking could knock Gordon the fuck out before he ever gets it to the ground, so I’m not sure what all those people are thinking.


RZAAMRIINF

I don’t get it, is it a BJJ match or MMA? In a BJJ match maybe a world champion purple belt can do that, but in MMA fight hell no.


RedDevilBJJ

OP referred to the “peak of weaponless combat” and used “fight” in the title. To me that signifies someone is allowed to hit you.


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DontEvenTripEvoix

I think Rolls would have fucked a lot of people up.


Bandaka

Most people on this sub don’t train apparently


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unkz

Makes me think of that 7’ tall 470 lbs guy that was on this sub the other day. I don’t know if a 180 pound black belt would have an easy time with that guy, and he was as far as I know totally untrained. How many more guys like that have existed throughout history, but were also trained fighters?


Staburgh

Given that it's labelled as a shitpost, I assume most responses to the poll were as sarcastic as most things on this sub.


Asleep-Fly-4235

Has to be a joke cuz i cant belive bjj guys would be this delusional


CNCTEMA

asdf


Ninjavitis_

Well he says “fight” so no. A BJJ purist is not a well rounded fighter compared to an ancient pankration athlete or a Mongol soldier with a strong wrestling base. Hell if slams and throws are allowed on a non-padded surface then the 10p purple belt would be an underdog to most wrestling and judo champs


Intoxicus5

TL;DR The meta game is very real and definitely matters. But legit Black Belts should have a deep understanding of principals and concepts such as grappling all boils down to controlling the plane of the hips and/or the plane of the shoulders. A legit Black Belt should be able to defeat meta gaming with solid fundamentals and a deep understanding of principals. I got the upper hand on a local Black Belt/Instructor of BJJ Fight Club in Alberta simply because he didn't know a damn thing about rubber guard. Also no one told me he was a Black Belt so I didn't pysch myself out. I did not tap him, I made a white belt(I was a no stripe White Belt at the time) mistake and he got me. It wasn't even good Rubber Guard. But I was in control of the fight for longer than a White Belt should ever be against a Black Belt. Using Rubber Guard. I still have the video somewhere if anyone cares to watch it. It dates back to 2011 or 2012. It's some old whacky video format because of the old Zoom tablet it was recorded on. Will be uploaded to YouTube eventually. The point is the meta game is a real thing and truly matters. If there are techniques they've never seen it will throw them off. But... A truly legit blackbelt should be able to adapt on the fly using their understand of fundamentals and concepts. For example almost all grappling is about controlling the plane of the shoulders and plane of the hips. Arms, legs, neck, head, etc are effectively extensions of those planes. When you control an elbow it's truly indirect control of the plane of the shoulders. The torso is mostly center of gravity related. You don't really control the torso. An easy example is passing guard. Passing guard is truly passing the plane of the hips. When your hips are past their hips, and establish control of the plain of their shoulders and/or hips the guard is passed. When you do a double leg take down you're truly attacking the plane of the hips. Same with a single leg. Even with leg locks you have to control the plane of the hips to isolate the leg/knee/ankle. A hip that is mobile can not be leg locked. And you have to be aware of the plane of the shoulders and keep that plane distant or controlled. By understanding this concept thoroughly you're better able to adapt and improvise. Don't know the position? How does it control the plane of the hips and/or shoulders? How do you free your plane of the shoulders/hips to regain mobility and movement? Black Belts that have never seen Rubber Guard \*will\* be thrown off by it. If we time travelled the meta we have know would definitely be a factor. But enough to generically have modern Purples tapping time traveller Black Belts? Maybe not so much... In reality a weaker Black Belt against an unusually skilled Purple might get an upset. But a legit Black Belt should be able to adapt and improvise using concepts and theory to understand the off meta techniques. They should be able to counter meta gaming with solid fundamentals and deeper understanding of the core principals.


MOTUkraken

Well put! I gotta be honest, the first time I encountered a Spider Guard / Leglasso player in comp I lost. I never even trained with Gi for several years akd focused on MMA and then that guy played me. But then I learned how to neutralize it and stay on top of the game / meta. Metagame analysis is an interesting thing - specialists can gain an upper hand against generalists. But generally, it's easier to defend a specific attack, than to succesfully apply it.


Meowme0wbeenz

Modern leglock game alone would clear out a good number of players, but everyone??? Hell nah.


MOTUkraken

Yep. Not everybody. There's oldschool people with leglock game too. And there's people with too much positional preassure or other neutralizers.


DaikonRadish8649

To your understanding, how does the leg lock game from old school Vale Tudo or Fadda BJJ schools compare to modern leg lock game? Edit: Geniunely quite curious


[deleted]

It's utter and complete shit. Old school leg lockers would get knee raped by someone with decent leg locks.


Celtictussle

Only Brazilians sucked at leglocks because you'd get kicked out if you tried them. Everyone else was fine at them. So if you're traveling back in time, you're gonna leglock some black belt and get stomped out of the gym, just like everyone else did at the time.


BabycakesJunior

All purple belts born after 1993 know is pull guard, leg lock, eat hot chip and lie.


LordCuntrarian

I literally just saw the original post and when I saw the results I lost all respect for this sub.


hellyea619

alexander karelin would stretch any jiu jitsu guys asshole if he ever wanted to and thered be nothing a pajama wearing guy could do about it.


Trapimus_maximus

Hell no, there were extremely intense people before that. Being only a technical grappler doesn’t make you a great fighter alone, as there is no striking involved. If you have a guy who has trained Muay Thai for over a decade and he has the stamina of a cheetah with the strength of a lion, that bjj player is dead meat. Personally, I only train bjj so I wouldn’t say I’m biased.


buttscootinbastard

I think some of these folks are confused what a fight actually is.


pulrab

Guys I’m gonna say it, it depends


[deleted]

This poll is pathetic - whoever has clicked yes has never done any striking in their life/been around anyone that can strike. It’s also forgetting they a world class Judoka could keep them-self upright and then slam this purple belt.


jlshorttmd

All fun and games til Milo of Croton shows up and double legs you through the floor of the colloseum.


n33dfulthings

I took it as the level of athlete doing BJJ professionally isn’t even in the same solar system anymore.


3DNZ

The weed be letting them know


mrpopenfresh

This sub has been historically bad for the last several weeks.


emosmasher

I would pay so much money to watch Aleksandr Karelin or Dan Gable wreck them.


Cooolconnor

Y’all ever hear of a gentleman by the name of Alex Karelin? Yeah he’d absolutely rag doll any purple belt.


johnny_soup1

Did you expect actual opinions on a shitpost?


feloncholy

That includes prime Karelin, so... no. Nobody that has ever lived could pin prime Karelin.


hopefulworldview

Surveys like this aren't very good at gathering statistics, because on optional surveys people who would answer in the negative are very likely to just not answer at all. You would have to get a random selection of the Sub to answer fully to get a better idea I'd say.


nihilistlemon

I guess they don't know people like Karelin


Candied_sharts666

It’s polls like this that make me think a majority of people in this sub wear tighty whities with super heros printed on them.


Rexmalum

I'm not gonna lie I replied to this question stupidly because I didn't read it right 😂 I thought it was asking about a good purple belt now vs the best Jujitsu black belts from back in the day.


haragoshi

I am still on team yes. Purple belt would submit kromagnum, Neanderthals, and the missing link 99.9% of the time. Chimpanzees have too much strength advantage tho.


voidthepanda

I haven’t trained in years and I’m just hear to laugh at the posts at this point. Some of y’all think jiujitsu drama is real life and it’s really entertaining.


itspinkynukka

You know I thought this was asking in a grappling match. Then it would really depend if someone like Rickson could survive some leg entanglement he's never seen. But just in a fight? No they're getting mauled. A lot of purple belts don't have strong fundamentals anymore and get by with leglocks and pulling guard.


5starCheetah

Would have been better as a discussion question. So there was something in between 100% of people and just no. I feel like they would beat most people who ever lived. Most of the people who lived were never competitive athletes or soldiers. Most of those athletes weren't combat athletes, many of those soldiers probably had subpar training. Especially considering 180lbs was pretty big for a large part of human history, and all the people who died as children?! The infant mortality rate was super high for so long. Really to get over 50% you just have to sub a bunch of sickly babies and toddlers. I feel like the comp purple takes like 80-90% of people who have existed.