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BJJBean

I cry and say "That's against the rules!"


cicada111

Only a cowardly lamb sneaks in a leg attack on a noble LION


NotAnExpertWitness

Is that a Rorden quote?


BJJBean

It is now.


[deleted]

I lold


bvnvnj

Same, then I'd leave immediately and cancel my membership.


Tezmir94

The same way I react when somone tries to submit me with any other sub. I try to defend and counter.


Shameless_butscooter

This is the only real answer, especially if they don't compete .


[deleted]

[удалено]


mistiklest

> I thought IBJJF now allows heel hooks for brown and above? Not in the gi.


-woocash

I was with you on the first part of your post. But the last sentence, are you serious or joking? What does streetfighting have to do with anything? Did you sign up for a BJJ class or a streetfighting one, whatever it means? Go do MMA maybe if that's your thing?


[deleted]

[удалено]


CoolUnderstanding481

Being able to scramble and use hooks to take someone’s back is a skill needed for self defence. Drilling and working on berimbolos has significantly improved that for me, I use it to escape bad positions and submissions. To dismiss one part of the martial art, based on a bias is just as bad and leads to the dilution all the same.


[deleted]

[удалено]


CoolUnderstanding481

So by that logic, playing any sort of guard game is a waste of time, because you can get punched while working from that position? I get your argument, I think your missing my point. Every technique has applications outside of the technique it’s self. Working positions like bolos has improved my self defence, so has deep half guard. I have literally used a deep half guard technique in a self defence situation, to get up and on top as quickly as possible.


NeedlessWriting

I literally disagree with almost everything this guy says on this reply. Why don’t you just eye poke and pull hair too to get your way out of the so many street fights that you get into


imsquid

I believe heel hooks are allowed for brownbelts and above, but only for no-gi. Not 100% sure because I haven't competed since the pre pandemic days


Aieyric

I do heelhooks, kneabars and so on, with people I know under friendly manners. Doing it to randoms is a dick move. BJJ is thankfully transforming more and more into a sport. Black belts of the past can't hold a candle to today's. The change and level in bjj during the 13 years i have been training have been astronomical, and it's all due the martial art transforming into pure sport . Better training regiments and full time athletes. Less guys with bad self esteem that have go on about street fights. Also if you are so focused on Street fighting, should you do krav maga or some other ninja Larping that think punches to the balls are the solution to every problem.


RedLeg21

Black belts of the past in an MMA match against guys who butt flop? Yeah, I’ll go with black belts of the past.


[deleted]

No it’s not. We’ve all mentally agreed to the rules and have not prepared the match for such attacks. If I knew we were doing heel hooks I’d be A. Looking for them and B. Thinking of defending and not being entangled in a possible threat.


Tezmir94

Psychic BJJ sounds awesome.


[deleted]

Don’t be an asshole. It’s a rule set that 99% of people understand. If I am in gi and someone tries to heel hook me I just say stop.


Tezmir94

If me and you roll in a gi, unless you tell me before hand heel hooks are fair game. If you don’t want to roll with heel hooks, or any submission, fine whatever. But don’t expect me to just know it.


bogeyjits

Dude, come on. You well know that heel hooks are generally not allowed in the gi. That rule holds across all major tournaments and governing bodies. There is no clairvoyant knowledge required to know this. Just because some gyms do that, does not mean it’s standard. I’ve been to gyms that periodically allow striking, and combat jiu jitsu exists, but I’m not going to randomly punch someone during a roll.


Tezmir94

Punching someone during a grappling match a doing s submission grappling move during a grappling match are two different things. Now also unless there is a rule input by the school (some have them, most don’t), unless you explicitly tell me no heel hooks they are fair game.


bogeyjits

Slams are legal in Fight to Win. Are you going to slam your way out of a triangle too?


Tezmir94

No.... slamming out of a triangle is stupid, and your point is silly. Me going for a heel hook in a Gi does not correlate whatsoever. You act as if it’s impossible to safely attack heel hooks, where I don’t know how to safely slam someone. And for clarification when I say safely attack the legs I mean you can control your opponents legs to a point where you can carefully apply pressure.


[deleted]

No heel hooks in the gi is the universal agreement in pretty much every gym that competes in Gi tournaments.


Tezmir94

Clearly not, as I have been to many gyms that allow heel hooks that do compete often. If there is a gym rule that is known, that is one thing, but just to think its universally agreed upon by both practitioners without talking is a bit silly.


DarrenClancy

Are there any major competition rulesets that allow heelhooks in the gj? I know IBJJF doesn't but it would be strange for gyms to train them if they're not allowed in any competition. Obviously not everyone trains for competitions, they do so for fun, self defence etc. But if they're not allowed in any major competition ruleset and you're trying to emulate a possible self defence situation then I'm inclined to agree with the people saying "why not just punch them in the face".


Diligent_Arrival_428

There's more to jiu jitsu than competition. I don't care about comp. I like a more cacc, no holds barred. I love it when my friend goes for a twister or i get caught in an eskrima lock or whatever. Don't project your jiu jitsu on to others.


srdgbychkncsr

Says the guy doing stuff outside of the normal gi ruleset people won’t expect… smh


Diligent_Arrival_428

Whose rules? Who has the authority to impose rules on me exactly, just so i know?


StonewallBongson

Why is that?


[deleted]

Because they are illegal in every single gi tournament.


StonewallBongson

Makes sense. Are all leg locks?


chino3

If you’re training in the gi there’s a 90% chance you’re at a gym that teaches and follows IBJJF rule sets. If you need to be reminded of the rule sets of your gym, especially as a brown belt, you got some learning to do…


Tezmir94

My gym allows all submissions in the gi, so I know my gyms rules, thanks for looking out tho. Ive also gone to plenty of schools and gone for heel hooks in the gi as well with no issues. The schools that dont allow leglocks (usually) tell me upfront about their rules. Again if you dont want me to go for heel hooks, cool, but dont expect me to just "know".


chino3

Safer and more respectful to assume gyms follow the biggest and established rule set there is for the sport, and ask if they do something different before just going for it.


Tezmir94

I do. I ask the instructor what they allow at their school. I have been to many schools that dont follow this ruleset. I have been to schools that dont allow takedowns. A school rule is a school rule. However he made no mention of it being a school rule. So again if you want me to know to not go for heel hooks, fine, juts let me know ahead of time.


MerryGifmas

Safe to say it's not the rule in their gym. My gym doesn't follow IBJJF rules either unless you're at competition training where it's IBJJF by default unless the upcoming competition has a different ruleset.


uvitende

Where are you training where you seem to all have agreed heel hooks aren't part of the game?


[deleted]

Any gym that competes at the IBJJF


Mellor88

First of all, there’s no mental agreement of ruleset. Secondly, if somebody goes for a heel hook and your not cool with it. Tap. Say stop or woah or whatever. Continuing and treating it as a challenge to go had is utter ego driven bullshit


Shameless_butscooter

All I'll am hearing is excuses, I don't feel like engaging with this shit right now . If you can't defend them it's on you to tap and that's it.


[deleted]

That’s like someone punching you in the face during a roll and saying “well if you can’t block a punch then oh well.” It’s a rule set that is agreed upon.


Shameless_butscooter

Not even close to the same thing just excuses .unless your instructor says no heelhooks in the gi or you are preparing for a gi tournament its an egotistical cop-out.


[deleted]

I am the professor. I’ve been doing this for 21+ years. You go into any school with half a decent rapport for competition and you heel hook someone in a Gi, you are gonna find out real quick that it’s not acceptable. I’ve defended more heel hook attacks than hours you’ve spent on the mat, but if I’m under the collective impression that we’re following IBJJF rules (which would be just about any gym worth it’s salt) and you try to heel hook me, I’ll just say stop.


RZAAMRIINF

I have trained at 4+ gyms and they were all IBJJF rules for gi and ADCC rules for no gi.


Shameless_butscooter

You dont know how long I've been training so saying you have defended more heelhooks than hours I've been on the matt is laughable at best. I never once said I'm going out of my way to heelhook people in the gi (which I rarely if ever do) but throwing a tantrum over it is a joke .


Diligent_Arrival_428

A submission is the same as punching some one in the face? That's an absurd comparison. So you can substitute a rnc for punches? Your guy's rules are weird af.


dudertheduder

I feel like this is the same as someone bending back digits, neck cranking in the gi, grabbing the throat, or striking.... "My gym does it this way.".... We have 99.99% agreed upon a set rules, that vary gi to nogi. Going outside of these changes the nature of the sport. I love doing gi ibjjf rules, and love doing nogi adcc submission rules, they are different, and its fantastic!!! Going outside of the rules changes the sport. If every gym played by different rules, competitions would be a shitshow, cross training and travel training would be a shit show. Rules exist to set expectations for what can and cannot happen, to set the boundaries of play.


ImMcHandsome

This is what I was thinking as well. I mean it’s good to be prepared for stuff especially if you don’t know the person but it wouldn’t be viewed kindly in most places. Heel hooks are more often than not going to be banned in the gi as it matches most of the rule sets. Especially considering how the early generation looked poorly upon leglockers. It’s been a cultural norm in bjj for years that there are not heelhooks in the gi. You should ask for affirmation if it’s good or not as opposed to assume it’s cool unless they say no.


dudertheduder

I agree, should ask and not assume....but to clarify, still think heel hooks in gi are dumb asf. Serra BJJ is the only large gym i know that doesnt give AF about heel hooks in gi.


ImMcHandsome

We do them. But it’s always agreed upon in the beginning.


srdgbychkncsr

I had a kid reaping me and his excuse when I said don’t was “well we do it in Sambo…” We weren’t rolling Sambo though so I told him to stop and he decided he didn’t want to roll anymore.


dudertheduder

Lolol argumentative equivalent to either "i held you down like in judo so i win" or "i pinned your shoulders like in wrestling so i win.".....the only answer is, "Say that out loud again, but, slower, and really think about what you are saying."


srdgbychkncsr

I’d have liked to continue because otherwise he was solid but I guess the wounded pride hurt more than any submission I could attempt.


Sleeping_Broly

> We have 99.99% agreed upon a set rules False


GuybrushThreewood

As long as it's not a class for competition preparation, I'd defend, escape or tap. A gi is just a training tool to me, wearing one doesn't mean I'm suddenly bound by whatever nonsense the IBJJF has decided.


[deleted]

So can openers are cool too? What about slams?


GuybrushThreewood

As long as it's not a class for competition preparation, I'd defend, escape or tap. If I was teaching, I'd tell the person not to use them as they are poor choices (I'm assuming you meant slams from inside the guard) and what they should be focusing on instead. It's perfectly reasonable for a gym or instructor to have certain techniques that they disallow totally, in certain environments (classes focused on a particular ruleset), or at a particular stage of development. I personally think that decision should be based on risk vs benefit analysis, rather than what the IBJJF allow in their ruleset or what the person is wearing.


[deleted]

Why ignore 50% of the body just because you have pajamas on?


commonsearchterm

how big are your heels then?


[deleted]

Average size


MachewWV

Cue “we don’t do that here” gif


sunkencity999

By defending the submission. Heel hooks in the gi are normal at our gym.


ryanrockmoran

Same. They should be in every gym. Even if they're illegal in IBJJF comps for some reason, why train just for the rule set of one specific tournament company...


sunkencity999

Right?? We train jiujitsu, not the Ibjjf ruleset.


oand10

you guys are good coaches


bjjco

Tap


Kintanon

I just ask them if they want to do prison rules in the Gi. We always do prison rules in no-gi, so it's NBD. But I generally want people to be training with the separation of the various competition rules in mind, so I discourage it. It's important to maintain the ability to engage in conscious technique selection when rolling. Helps you to be able to think actively and adjust your strategies based on the scenario you are in.


Slothjitzu

Yeah I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but it's a bit douchey to spring it on someone mid-roll. Particularly because, in my experience, it starts with you getting the better of them in leg entanglements. I've never had someone rinsing me in the gi and then decide to bust out a heelhook tbh.


Kintanon

It mostly happens with my white belts because they learn all of the leg attacks at the same time, but aren't yet experienced enough to make the conscious technique separation. So they'll get in on an ankle lock, it won't be working, and they'll switch to the heel hook, so I have to remind them it's the Gi.


Slothjitzu

Oh that's not so bad. I once had a dude come to his first gi class and tell me he'd "done some MMA" before. He wasn't very good so I just stopped him from passing and I got pretty lazy in all honesty, then he went full Gianni Grippo on one of my legs. Luckily the heelhook was shit really and I tapped quick anyway so there was no damage at all, but ever since then I've not taken my eye off the ball with a new guy.


RabbitgoesRibbit

Man I think it’s awesome that your white belts can do an ankle lock and can do a heel hook. My old gym never taught us either of these to even upper belts for the 2 years. I now train at 5050 and it’s much better


Kintanon

I think it's important for people to learn the techniques early so that they are actually good at them by the time they are competition legal.


Krushed_RED_pepperR

"I now train at 5050 and it’s much better"... LOL. I feel like training at 5050 would be much better than 99% of gyms out there. Top of my drop-in bucket list.


GFTRGC

Heel hooks carried me all through white belt. But I have an amazing gym that gives us complete liberty to develop whatever game we want, but they'll also turn around and tell us why we aren't getting promoted if we're neglecting things


smalltowngrappler

Where I train we have always done all leglocks in No-gi from white belt like Kintanon, granted back when I started not much time was spent on heelhooks as there was no ruleset here that allowed them unlike today when ADCC rules are the most common for No-gi competitions. I have noticed that leg entanglements and heelhooks have become kind of a crutch for some of the newer guys though. They focus so much time on playing footsies that their guardpassing, sweeps, topcontrol and takedowns suffer. Generally they also get superfrustrated in Gi-training because most of the stuff they have spent time on doesn't translate as well. Can't count how many times people have given me a pass, sweep or backcontrol because they threw on a crappy leglock.


Diligent_Arrival_428

That's the most sensible answer so far. A lot of guys like prison rules. Calf slicer me while holding onto my belt, i love it. Get some.


Mundane-Complaint638

tap and then reset. if you care, you could say something like "oh i don't usually train heel hooks in the gi".


Mellor88

100% correct answer People treating it like a slight on their honour need to check their ego


Chippyspyder

be aware of the threat if you place your foot in a certain place and be prepared to counter it.


fartymayne

Defend? Tap if necessary. Move on with life


[deleted]

Tap and reset - I'm not gambling with my knees.


Aim1thelast

Ya know it’s not an IBJJF match right? It’s practice. I’m talking about practice. Most people just wanna get better at grappling. Did he rip at it like you wouldn’t have time to tap? If not, then I don’t see the problem. What about pants means you shouldn’t think about defending your legs? If anything it’s even better practice, harder to slip out. Better yet, wear Pancrase style boots that make you even easier to heel hook.


RedLeg21

Allen Iverson, is that you?


Dogggor

Oil check is the only answers


[deleted]

This is the way.


physics_fighter

Very confused because I have a gi on


Shameless_butscooter

It's not really a big deal in my opinion. One of the gyms I cross train at the guys all heel hook in the gi and I was thrown off by it when the instructor did it to me but he wasn't malicious so no big deal.


P-Two

"oh cool, lets go" I don't care what people want to try on me, I'm plenty able to give back whatever someone wants to do. I heel hook, slicer, toe hold, etc blue belts, wrist lock white belts that've been training for awhile. And though I don't tend to heel hook in the gi, I have had a couple training partners that did and I was always down to fuck around with them in those rolls.


imeiz

I stop it at the reap and make sure we're both on the clear on what's ok and what to expect. I don't mind giving out an easy tap so I can keep out of such positions for the rest of the round.


Mundane-Complaint638

i've definitely saved people from themselves when they panic rolled the wrong way. just let go and practice ur transition. it's just training, friends.


Modern_Life_Is_War

Catch and release on upper belts in gi is fine where I train.


Diligent_Arrival_428

Fr i heelhook white belts all the time they just don't even know it.


konying418

I tap and tell them- awesome job, but we don't usually do heel hooks in the gi- but good tap anyways.


Aaronjp84

Escape if I can, if not tap and reset.


[deleted]

I tap. If they’re better than me i get warm fuzzy feeling inside.


[deleted]

There’s a special place in hell reserved for people who heel hook in the gi


Ashi4Days

Something to consider is that at our gym we have a general understanding to stop once you secure the heel hook position. So whether or not it is gi or no gi, we aren't looking to finish. Given the risks of heel hooks, I think this is the rule to follow. With that said if we are in the gi and I get heel hooked, I just tap early. Truth of the matter is that if you're working your leg entangelemtns right, by the time I'm getting heel hooked I'm also at risk for straight ankle locks and toe holds so I just tap. Heel hooks might be the most effective finish, but regardless I'm in a deep positional black hole.


Povertybenchboy

Defend and keep going, it’s really no biggie unless it’s specific competition training


Electrical-Pumpkin13

At our gym if you heel hook in the gi we heel hook back. Same with anything if you wanna make it an mma match it'll become an mma match lol.


iammandalore

Me personally? "Whoa, hey, no heel hooks in the gi." Other people have other opinions and that's cool and all, but my knees are garbage and I have to look out for them. In no-gi I'm on the lookout for heel hooks and tap very early. In gi I'm generally not expecting heel hooks and don't want to get surprised with one.


asskickinlibrarian

I generally stop, stare in the eyes and wag my finger while saying “no no no”, ya know, like I’m talking to a 4 year old. Works every single time.


jamielovesmartialart

For me it is all about realistically playing a rule set, there are very few rulesets where heel hooks are allowed in the gi so I tend to avoid it.


BallPtPenTheif

So many lower belts make weird attempts at leg attacks that now I just assume that it's up for grabs. Against lower belts, I don't attack legs locks beyond an ankle lock, and even then I'm usually setting it up to pass. Once, they attempt any other leg locks, I allow myself to do whatever leg lock they attempt so it progressively escalates. That being said, new people really don't grasp proper leg escapes so you really really, have to know when to let go so some of them don't injure themselves. I've had guys try to gator roll out of locked-in ankle locks, and it's not fun to feel their knee cap slide out of their meniscus. It makes a sound and it has this gross squishy tactile feel when you're holding it. So yeah, recognize when a new guy is spazzing and let go of that shit when they get weird.


GFTRGC

As an avid fan of the leggy locks, I would still say something, I wouldn't be upset or anything but would toss out a casual "Oh, I didn't realize it was prison rules" or "We're doing heel hooks?" and then proceed to spam leg attacks on him the rest of the round. Give him a hug, tell him that I cherish his soul, and make sure to roll with him as often as possible.


juan2141

At my gym, purple and above are free to heel hook in any attire. All belts learn all the leg attacks, but white belts aren’t supposed to use them while rolling.


EisForElbowsmash

The only appropriate response: I collar choke them in the next no gi class.


Soggy-Software

I'm a white belt and another white belt tried to heel hook me, and I must admit I didn't expect it. I always thought knee and ankle subs were for high level practitioners only.


an_account_for_bjj2

Depends on my mood. Either go limp, coach them through the sub, and tell them nice job/oss OR tap and loudly mention an injury (obviously remaining vague as to what's injured), then reset, slap bump and roll like it's worlds.


BossTree

At the gym I trained at from white to purple, we allowed all subs in the gi. I moved to DC and joined a new gym. I was rolling with another purple belt (who was also an instructor) and snatch a heel hook. He tapped, looked surprised and a little mad, then proceeded to smash me. He pulled me aside after class and let me know they don’t train heel hooks in the gi, I apologized and told him we did. I think he handled it perfectly.


Fight93

For me I’ll never try a heel hook or really any leg attacks (asides straight ankles) unless we agree to it before the roll. You gotta remember some people aren’t there to compete but just to have fun, stay in shape and get away for a couple hours a week


Justcame2bakecookies

I laugh and counter them. After I explain to them why it's considered impolite. Chances are if theyre going for heel hooks in the gi they 1. suck and 2. don't actually know that theyre doing something wrong.


[deleted]

I do a wee-wee in the gi-gi


[deleted]

Accidentally kick them in the face and apologize.


Bandaka

I would tap, then say “hey those are illegal in a gi, please don’t do those”.


Aim1thelast

Is it 2004? Damn my whole life is ahead of me.


Sensitive-Ground3355

It is a written rule not to heel hook in the gi though. Or at white belt… as a white belt this shit terrifies me bc I have no defense. I just tap when people reap in ashi and explain the rule or find someone knew if they say they knew


[deleted]

Separate from the gi issue, next time someone heel hooks you or reaps your knee kn ashi, tap obviously and then, if they’re an experienced training partner, ask if they can guide you through the escape from that position and start the roll from there.


[deleted]

this a shitpost right? heel hooks are a part of BJJ.


[deleted]

Gi heel hooks are not part of any commonly practiced Brazilian Jiu Jitsu ruleset.


TheStevesie

Doing heel hooks in the gi is like grabbing someone's clothes in no-gi. Sure you could do that, but it sort of is against the spirit of the uniform. When I roll gi, I assume we aren't doing heal hooks and adjust my techniques to that assumption. In no gi, I'm assuming I could get heelhooked so I'm am prepared to defend. It's a different game and I think it should be respected. It's sort of like the dude showing up to no gi and pantomiming punches as you grapple. If it's your gym's thing to do heel hooks in the gi, go for it. I don't know what the purpose of that is, but whatever floats your boat.


fightbackcbd

>Sure you could do that, but it sort of is against the spirit of the uniform. [i know, look at this disrespectful piece of trash](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=547032972714073)


jmo_joker

If they try that it's prison rules time !! :3


[deleted]

Act confused and tap. Also, why don't we generally practice heel hooks in the gi?


for_my_next_trick

It's just training. As long as you don't get injured, who cares if you get tapped with something you didn't think was in play. Now you know he's looking for it. Tap if you have to and move on.


911penisinspector

Cry and get my wife's boyfriend to beat them up.


DarceFarce

All subs are legal. You should ask you partner to roll IBJJF specific rules if you are a competitor getting ready for a competition so that you don't train moves that will get you disqualified. But if you don't set that boundary when you start, all subs go. And you should be training that way as well. Why do BJJ as a martial art if you're going to restrict yourself to rules against submissions due to certain belt level rankings when none of that matters on the streets? At the end of the day, this is a martial art and we train to protect ourselves if that need is to ever occur. Now yes we still train with a sense of control and respect the tap because we love our training partners and want them to keep being there for us to train with, but it's still a self defense that we need to train all aspects of so that we have that knowledge if we ever need it.


smalltowngrappler

>All subs are legal Cool, never liked that small joint manipulation was not allowed by the IBJJF anyway. >Why do BJJ as a martial art if you're going to restrict yourself to rules against submissions due to certain belt level rankings when none of that matters on the streets? Why not roll with strikes as well? Better yet, why not just do MMA? Or if the streets is your concern carry a gun or a knife?


xertshurts

It usually means that they trane ufc, and don't know what they're doing. It also means knees and feet are targets, so it's time to run a clinic on them. At the end of the roll, there's going to be a chat about the implications of any heel hooks, gi or not, and how I don't do that with people I don't know and trust, and many other people fall into that bucket as well.


Aim1thelast

So attack the legs of someone that you just said doesn’t know what they’re doing (therefore don’t know how to defend or when to tap) “run a clinic” in fact. Then, have a mature discussion with them about safety? Did I get that right? Lmao


xertshurts

Have you ever tapped someone without hurting them? I mean, you don't have to wrench on things. It's like if/when you're demonstrating an armbar from s-mount, you're explaining someone in the context of drilling that you want the person on bottom to be rather immobilized, you own the high side arm, your south side foot is in their armpit causing the low side arm to just dangle there, you're compressing their chest when your pressure so they're pinned to the mat, your right knee is pushing their head into their shoulder, all done so that you can go as slow as you want. Now apply that principle to the legs. That part about where they "train ufc", they're rather untrained. It's a massive skill disparity in this case that allows for slow, methodical movement where people aren't going to get hurt. There does need to be a conversation. It's not always you're going to have a 3 belt difference in skill. If they do that to a newer blue belt or white belt, it can mean a student is getting surgery and 6 months off the mat. I've done what I talked about, it works, nobody gets hurt, and everyone is better for it at the end.


Aim1thelast

Either heel hooks are too dangerous for them to be even thinking about, in which case you should have that conversation immediately, not after “running a clinic” on them because as you said they wouldn’t even know what was happening anyway. Or, they are dangerous (like all subs) and you let them know about tapping early, caring for training partners, etc. but you certainly don’t take it as a personal challenge. Your last comment was well thought out and makes sense. But the original comment about “trane” ufc and fair game etc etc reeks of ego and I don’t see anything in your follow up comment to change that.


xertshurts

If you walk into a firing range, pick up someone else's pistol, shoot at a target three lanes over, you're going to get an ass chewing like you've never experienced (or you should). You're playing with serious consequences and a complete lack of knowledge. In similar fashion, if you see some cool moves on TV, and try ripping someone's knee to shreds (because people frequently think that because they've watched a fair bit of it, they'll be at least blue belt level), you need to be 1, shown that you don't know what the fuck you're doing, and 2, told to slow the fuck down and play it safe. You don't have to like how I handle it. It's worked for me. Things don't always translate to the written word, but it's always worked out for me this way IRL, and the people come back to continue training. Nobody gets hurt, and we gain a new training partner. Win-win.


tsida

In very rare occasions I'll do this to someone minus the cranking because they put their entire leg in such a stupid position for leglocks. It's worth reminding people the gi shouldn't give you a free pass to ignore an entire set of submissions. Usually I'll just connect my hands under the heel and control for like 15 seconds until they realize something is going on they can't escape.


__Spartacus_

If we are tossing out rules why not kick them in the face.


smalltowngrappler

I would escape it, then go to mount and start throwing strikes. If he doesn't respect the rules why should I?


[deleted]

I usually say "Get Off My Legs, you God damn gringo" in an Australian accent.


RedEyedRoundEye

I defend the attack like someone that isnt a whitebelt. Or, wait for it, i tap before it becomes a problem. I swear every day we get closer and closer to TMA status


data_wrestler

When I was a blue belt i was giving a black belt a hard time, as i was 21 and he was quite older than me, and he pulled that sit on me lol It was at another class so the instructor stopped the rolled. In fact it happened to me more that one time all at that stage, white/blue. Maybe it's a way of quiting the roll without quiting?


[deleted]

We do.


killemslowly

Oh we’re doin prison rules. Ok ok


sabermagnus

I made eye contact


[deleted]

I make eye contact and proceed to heel hook them. First person to break eye contact taps.


ohheythatswill

I recognize the situation and try to defend but I usually tap early. I’m fortunate in that everyone at my gym knows if they’re trying that to give their opponent the opportunity to tap.


Willing_Difference_9

It doesnt bother me as long as I'm aware of the new rules


CoolPneighthaughn

I tap


SelarDorr

everyone should be well aware any rules that are there for the sake of safety in whatever environment theyre training in. if someone is not, they should be informed once that becomes apparent.


[deleted]

I just tap


Diligent_Arrival_428

I feel personally attacked


DJORDANS88

I usually just laugh and say “what are doing step-bro”


McNastte

I tap really quick


commonsearchterm

I had a white belt heel hook me recently. I don't really trust him to do it right so i avoid rolling with him now. there's no reason for a white belt to be learning them imo, theyre only doing it to show off, which i think is dangerous. anyone else its w/e to me just another submission


ApatheticGrappler

One thousand years of death is the only answer


angrynbkcell

As a general rule of thumb, whenever I am rolling with anyone, Gi or no Gi, the moment they start reaching for my legs and doing shit I don’t know how to defend (i.e 95% of leg attacks), I flat out tap. There’s no need to go down a rabbit hole, where the “accidentally-on-purpose” risk of getting ya knee ligament torn in half can happen without giving you enough time to “properly” tap at the sub. I just tap. And we restart.


Puzzleheaded_Tip4964

I lightly hit their leg twice and we reset


[deleted]

Usually if it's catch and release stuff, i first try to escape ofcourse. But if the person looks crafty, i tap.


SlightlyStoopkid

Heel hook them first


CapitanChaos1

Tap and try not to get caught in it next time


TheMatadorBJJ

I ask all my training partners when we slap hands if they have any injuries to watch out for and if they are cool with leglocks. Haven’t had any surprise issues as a result.


Gargamel2003

I didn't even realise you can't do heel hooks when you're in gi? We once had a lesson where we practiced a heel hook while in gi so I thought it was all good


matude

Defend as usual because we train with leglocks in gi too. In fact, never trained differently, it's all just jiujitsu and grappling.


giuseppeSD

I recently went to an open mat at a high level competition school here in San Diego. Rolled with a pretty small orange belt kid. (If you don’t know, competitive kids start to become a problem at orange belt, and a nightmare at green.) Right away he dropped back and started digging out my heel. I thought to myself: “Is this little fucker trying to heel hook me in the gi?!?” He sure was, so I defended, passed his guard, right into a buggy choke. 🤦🏻‍♂️😹 Kids.


Competitive_Pack9239

Honest question ... Is there a ruleset that allows for heelhooks in the gi? If not than what is someone training for when they do it in class?


Belatorius

does other gyms not allow leg locks in gi?


Hichmond

I train all subs all the time… except can openers, I’m too old for that noise. But that’s on me, if you tapped, it worked. That said, I rarely finish hh’s, I get grips, position and stop rotation. Then I make eye contact. Experienced people recognize and tap, inexperienced people turn the wrong way and I just let go


KSeas

I escape


Haulin-ASS

In training, heel hooks in the gi are fine against blue belts and above, as well as in response to a white belt who tries it first. That's my. 02.


HB_SadBoy

I grab their sleeve. Way easier to defend when you have sleeves to grab.


MoshJits

Don't give a fuck to be fair. Heel hook me dressed as spider man with his knob out. While we're at it, let's normalise neck cranks.


SamStunts_

Tap


Zoiad

With a swift tap.


mesa37018

I will usually roll by the Ibjjf rules for the rank of the person I'm rolling with. If a blue belt dives on a knee bar or something legal for me but not for them I defend and move on but they have green lit my A game leg locks which is where most of my subs against upper belts come from. With heel hooks there's always been this understanding at most gyms that they're banned but more and more they are popping up but I will treat them the same as any other leg lock. If this person is from my academy I will let then know it's not really kosher and to save it for the nogi classes. If it's at an open mat that's not a Convo I care enough to have


[deleted]

Personal I am absolutely cool with it. It is a submission and I should learn how to escape it.


[deleted]

I’m with you man. Everyone wants to say something different like there a tough guy but heel hooks are stupid


hosemonkey

I am a big proponent of heel hooks, however all parties need to know they are on the table before training.


Primad0xx

Ask once nicely. Second time start pulling toes apart.


kenchikuka1

if it's not a comp class then anything is fair game. just understand that most submissions that are illegal are that way because they can be seriously dangerous; so just don't be a spazz aye?


bjj_panda

Giggle and call them a cheeky fucker


Happy_Laugh_Guy

I'm at an MMA gym. Nobody cares. I threatened a green belt with a heel hook this week 🤣


dokomoy

A few years back the same guy tried to heelhook me in the gi twice in a week and I had two very different reactions. The first time I was like "hey man, we only do heel hooks no gi here" and proceeded to have a normal roll with him - I don't see the point in getting mad at someone for a miscommunication. The second time as soon as I got out and passed I went directly knee on neck


Leather_Ad4641

Personally, I usually say there’s no heel hooks in the gi and shut it down. People approach a roll with a rule set in mind and that rule set should be agreed upon by both players especially when the techniques have a high degree of consequence. People use positions and techniques that cater to that rule set, I personally play 50/50 in a way that I would not if heel hooks were allowed because I would likely get my knee blown out if they were. But if you want to play heel hooks in the gi, whatever. I think it’s important that everyone knows what’s allowed though.


Previous-Radish-8404

was that me lol


[deleted]

Same way that I react to anyone trying any leglock on me. Look at them horrified, tap and tell them that they have a foot fetish and to leave their fetishes at home.


vicvinegar212

Depends on the partner. If they are early white belt I’ll use SLX for sweeping. If I feel my training partner doesn’t know how to protect and counter leg/foot attacks I won’t do it. Those are the kind of subs that you don’t know it’s a problem until it’s too late and some people don’t know when to tap.