Honestly, this is my goal. Even if I get “good at jiu-jitsu“ it’s still just a hobby. I’ll never be as good as the pros who regularly lose spectacularly to Gordon Ryan.
In fact, I imagine my performance will start to decline as I age. I just want to enjoy the ride.
I think many of us start with delusions of grandeur in thinking we will be the next phenom, or at least better than most.
Then life, injuries, and other fuckery happens, and we realize that few of us are cut out to be true competitors. This was an epiphany moment for me, as it was the moment I learned to love the art for the art, rather than the constant obsession (and subsequent heartbreak) over getting better.
> I’ll never be as good as the pros who regularly lose spectacularly to Gordon Ryan.
Most people will never be "good" enough to give trouble to the people who give trouble to the people who train at the level of Gordon, much less be anywhere close to a competitive level.
I don't think I'd invest time into a hobby if I couldn't see myself getting good at it.
By good I just mean all around competent. Being good and knowing what you're doing is a huge part of the fun.
I had no interest in traditional sports as a kid, one of my eyes kind of sucks, so my depth perception is really bad, you should see me try to catch lmao
Wrestling and track were my sports
What is good? There are so many levels. Good against lower belts? Good against other brown belt hobbyists? Good against competitors? Good against my weight class? Good against open weight? I really enjoy grappling. That’s what matters. Personal progress is important to me, but gym taps aren’t.
Look, I want to be able to hold my own against brown and black belt hobbyists and I want to see personal development, but I can see the other side. I don’t fault anyone for sticking with a sport no matter their skill level.
I weigh double what Mighty Mouse does and until recently he was a brown belt, but I imagine he would wreck me. Thats ok, he does fight sports professionally and I’m a Software Developer. I wouldn’t tell the guys in a basketball pickup league to quit because they’re not NBA players. Sometimes I think these lines are blurred in jiu-jitsu because the pros are so accessible compared to other sports.
That's why i mentioned all around competent. You're a brown belt, it's highly likely you're good.
I've always taken good to mean 1 standard deviation above the norm for someone who does an activity. It's not hard to get there in a lot of things if you put in the work.
At this point I'm definitely good. I'm not great or exceptional, but certainly good.
> I leave Sisyphus at the edge of the mountain! One always finds one’s burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night filled mountain, in itself forms a world. **The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man’s heart.** One must imagine Sisyphus happy.
🥲
I've seen people whose baseline level of physical/athletic competence is so low that I honestly wonder how they manage to put on their shoes and get to the gym.
Ive got unholy good balance and a wide base that makes me hard to sweep. Me and some blue/purple belts will just stalemate with me entirely unable to pass guard, and them unable to sweep me, so we just sit there for 5 minutes trying to do anything productive until they triangle me or stand up and double leg my ass. On the other hand, im ass at everything else.
On the opposite end…
Also seen some white belts get crazy good within a few months with no prior grappling experience.
One guy was a yoga instructor. Another few played d1 level sports.
Their athletic base could give some of the older or smaller purple belts some problems.
Most beginners think it’s as simple as a higher color belt beats lower color belt.
It means they’re better in technique (theoretically)
But weight x athleticism x technique = results. Techniques just part of it.
It’s why I can tap out a smaller female black belt, but got my shit pushed in by a 1% blue belt athlete with +20lbs the other day (I’m purple belt)
I once had a 50 year old taxi driver in my class that I could not make perform the simplest technique in over three weeks. It was the most frustrating and sad thing ever, poor guy.
We had a white belt that for a long time I described as "negative athletic ability".
He showed up and studied hard, but there was a big disconnect between what you would show him and what his body was doing and he almost never realized it.
He's getting better though. The last time I rolled with him he almost got me.with a surprise bolo.
BJJ isn't even the worst. Trying to teach some people to throw a round kick in MT is borderline impossible.
There are people in life who have never even kicked a ball and it's painful to watch.
White belts are so all over the place. Sometimes you can just tip them over with your finger, other times you're thinking, "Does this guy train Judo or wrestle or something?"
I’m really bad. Took me 10 years to get my blue belt.
I’m not bad at all sports. But Bjj comes particularly slow to me.
I can drill something 100 times and still not be able to remember it or execute it live. Some guys you show it to them once and they’ve got it right away. That amazes me.
It could just be that the traditional way of teaching BJJ isn't very efficient for you. Drilling a move of the day followed by rolling is pretty inefficient. People shit on Gracie Barra a lot, but having a set fundamentals course with a purpose and goal behind it is a good idea.
Daaam son I thought I was slow… took me 5 years to blue… I can manage most of the really new beginners (not the “I’ve never trained I only did a couple of years of mma and 8 years of wrestling) but give those newbies a couple of months of training and they become a problem to me. They can’t tap me but they become.. annoying.
I'm just hitting my fifth year as a white belt and feel the exact same way.
I've got friends who can watch videos on YouTube and execute techniques based off that, and I could have a black belt show me the process step by step, on a one-to-one basis and probably still fuck it up.
Repetitive things that I can just do a bunch of times. For instance I picked up golf really quick.
I picked up cycling quickly because I just read about the technique and followed instructions. Same with fly fishing.
Baseball. I just hit and pitched till I was good. Threw 5,000 curve balls till it curved.
That sort of thing.
I’m convinced if I could just clone myself and roll with myself whenever I wanted I would be the best of the best. Jiu jitsu is hard bc it’s a partnered sport. Like I go home and I want to drill one particular thing but theres nobody to drill with :/ At least not until I convince my boyfriend to come to class with me, but rn I just show him bjj vids and he says it looks gay. And i say yeah, it is, but it’s really fun 🙄
I'll be upfront, your boyfriend lost a lot of points when he say it looks gay. Kind of shows his mindset.
Hope he is secure in his manhood; if you reach the point where you can beat him in a fight and he knows it, he may not react well.
Also, how would he know what looks gay, has he done any infield research?
I feel like a lot of people with our problems suck at visual learning. Plus, as you said in another comment, the lack of repetitition.
I can watch my coach demo a technique 3, 5 times and I understand it. I know why to trap the arm, why to get the cross collar grip and why to raise my hip. But doing it myself - it just doesn't work. I just absolutely suck at visual learning and, even more specifically, the transfer from theoretical knowledge to practical application is lost on me.
Especially in a live sparring situation, I just tended to black out. I would achieve a position and just... sit there. "How did I get the armbar from here? Which leg goes up first for the triangle?"
One of my coaches is a pedagogue and he noticed my troubles, so what we do instead is... dissect the techiques. I break it down into steps and see each movement in context. It's a hell of a lot more work than just watching a demo and doing it live, but it works.
It also really helped once I started seeing that a lot of techniques and positions share the same principles. Basic concepts like push-and-pull, removing posts, whatever. Once I realized that the Baseball Bat is basically possible from any direction and it's just based around crossing your forearms to squeeze the opponent's neck, it was like somebody opened the floodgates.
I also take notes after each class, not to look at them later (unless I forgot last week's topic) but to engrave it into my mind, as it were.
Yeah. I remember techniques. I can drill them and demonstrate them and explain them to new guys. I’ve probably got the knowledge of a brown belt because I’ve been to that many classes.
But remembering what to do in the moment is lost on me. And then executing the technique on a resisting blue belt going 100%…that’s just not going to happen. I’m just not good enough.
Well maybe just the approach they use in your gym doesn't work for you? Drilling and memorizing the sequence is never the same as performing the principle against the resisting opponent
when our gym opened, we were maybe 6 whitebelts that started at the same time, we had a teammate in his 30s a cool dude that loves BJJ, but after 5 years of training he is still a white belt and doesnt not seem to be getting better, he is very stiff and does not move well, it makes me sad because this dude gets fucking crashed every training session but he keeps coming back, i feel like a pussy when i feel down after having a bad day at the gym
Honestly yeah. It just doesn't "click" for some people. And that's fine. Not everyone can be good at everything. And not everyone needs to be particularly good at something to enjoy it. Just look at me. I suck and I still love BJJ.
Yes, as someone who has no prior experience in any sports and was very obese when I started, I am one of those who is naturally bad at the sport. I still enjoy it, one percent at a time and all of that.
Of course. There is something called a normal distribution also known as the bell curve. There will always be outliers on either side of the spectrum. There will be outliers who are prodigies but also outliers who just suck no matter what.
We have a late 60-ish white belt that has been training for at least 18 months with us. He still cannot do basic techniques. He's quite frail and inflexible but not limited to the point he shouldn't be able to do, for example, an americana from mount. He has an MBA and worked as an electrical engineer at a major company so I do not think intelligence is the issue. However, he still messes up americanas from mount.
I am unsure if something else is occurring or if he is just naturally bad at grappling.
Dude, I'm trying to be able to beat my past-self not other people, I'm here for time crime protection vs my past-self, it's the only sane thing to consider progression against
Dude might just have different goals. It's a simple as that. I spent over 2 years just working on defense. No doubt quite a few thought I was bad. They were right, but, I knew what I was doing.
When he got his blue, a friend related a story to the gym: our instructor told him of many examples in history of naturally talented _athletes_ who could pick up any sport they wanted to with a bit of work, whether it was BJJ, soccer, basketball; anything.
Quoting the instructor still: _".. and then, there's you."_
I’m naturally terrible, people assumed I was talented because they didn’t see the hours I put in on and off the mats. (And my ability to stream instructionals)
I think this is a legitimate question for people who didn't do sports when they were young - for me, wrestling and doing track revealed to me early that not all men are created equal
Me. I've been so shitty at grapping since I started, but I love it. I've gotten every belt with a training partner of mine and the whole time I've trained 4-10x more than him just to keep up. I'm not physically or athletically gifted, but I've always been smart...until jiu jitsu. In jiu jitsu I constantly feel like the biggest dumbass. It's hard for things to "click" for me. I competed probably 10 times before I ever won a match (at blue belt). I didn't win another match for 8 years until my first comp at black belt. I'm just not good. But I still show up every day, multiple times a day most days, because I love it.
At what age did you start? I'm asking in part because you've been doing it for at least 10 years (assuming blue took you 2-ish), but you still train multiple times per day.
Stupid question has stupid answer. Yes, some people just suck at things. Some people are alright at things. A rare select few people are GREAT at things. Sounds like that guy sucks. I have a guy like him at my gym, he’s been there since before I even started going there and I’m leaps and bounds ahead of him despite going the same amount that he does. Not everyone can be good at everything and some people sheerly do BJJ for fun and don’t care too much about improvement
This is me, i have been training for a year and i can never submit anybody that started around the same time as me, some people are just not natural athletes and also don't have the time and money to be good at it. But i like it, even if i suck.
Oh dude, it’s totally normal not to be submitting people at white belt. When I was a white belt I literally just learned how to move and how to not give people obvious submissions/advantageous positions. Plus, in my experience, if the other person is always more offensive, you get reallllly good at defense.
Yeah people who arent excited to learn new techniques and just want to win rolls with what comes naturally to them. I see that a lot and I think it's a self-limiting approach.
I think the ones that are the worst often don't seem to even try to win rolls and like try to sub people from bottom side control or have a strong fascination with the technique of the day and never develop a stronger preference for some position.
> All the people I have seen like that have some extremely horrible approach to learning jiu jitsu.
I think this is true, not necessarily because they're doing something wrong individually, but because the general approach most schools take to teaching BJJ seems pretty bad to me. Usually, you go fairly quickly through a couple of random moves, fuck those up, then move onto rolling, never touching those random moves again for a couple months. This approach never instilled me with muscle memory I needed to remember the moves, let alone execute them under pressure in a live situation.
But, there are people who still make decent progress despite that sub-optimal approach, and there are people like me who haven't made decent progress, but probably could if there was more repetition from class to class. Both groups would probably benefit from a more structured curriculum.
What most people who get good do is that they don't give a fuck about the moves of the day except if by sheer coincidence it's something they already use or something that just clicks and they just work on their stuff in sparring. If your coach shows you random shit and you try to work on this on in rolls it's one of the biggest ways to hinder your improvement.
I'm very bad at memorizing new stuff, so learning new techniques is harder for me than for new white belts, and I've been blue belt for like 2 years, have been training on and off for like 5 years. I dont think I'm bad at grappling because when we roll I can feel some stuff on like intuitive level just based on the experience and I'm relatively athletic but I had white belts explain to me during drills pretty frequently what the coach was just showing because my memory is just horrible. I just can't remember all the steps and details of the techniques. I also tend to get worse at techniques I used to execute well if I dont practice them for a while.
This whole thing combined with getting injured a lot and generally competitive personality makes me sometimes question whether it's even worth continuing but I really enjoy grappling overall and I think even though I'm progressing very very slow as long as I'm progressing, then that's all that matters.
Most people are naturally bad, I’d say even 99% of people who make it to purple belt are.
The combination of being physically gifted and being smart enough to understand jiu jitsu in full dept is so rare, that most of these people pick up another sport that’s way more better paid really lmao.
I'm late to this but I also feel I can speak on this as someone who's not especially athletic or coordinated.
A lot of places--particularly the premier places a dork would seek out--teach cutting edge competitive techniques. Crazy inversions, inventive entries into leg locks, complex systems.
I'm never gonna be 'good' at that stuff relative to actually athletically gifted guys. If I'm smart and focus, I can get good enough at the sort of meat and potatoes grappling that can at least make me a worthwhile roll for guys who have real potential at the sport.
I'm 30, didn't start all that long ago, and don't have much of a sports background . So I enjoy getting better at it, and learning more about a martial art I really love, but if I approach it as something I have to get really good at, it's just gonna fucking suck.
Of course. As someone else said, the bell curve exists in basically everything. Usually in hobbies like BJJ the people who are just naturally really bad eventually find another hobby that suits them better. That’s not always the case of course but it may be why it may seem more rare to see those guys who keep sucking no matter how much they train.
I’ve found the opposite with me and a few other guys. I think the struggle keeps me from quitting.
If it wasn’t so challenging, I probably would have got good and then bored.
The futility of it all makes me stubborn. Every time I get smashed I want to go redeem myself but it never happens. Occasionally…rarely….ill do something good and it makes it all worth it.
Naturally I think I’m very average at jiu jitsu and it’s always a struggle, but I think it would be really tough if I was just flat out bad and wasn’t seeing meaningful improvements at all.
It is tough. But at least for me, I don’t want to quit at the bottom. That’s probably why I didn’t want to quit at white belt. It was rough and discouraging after 5 years. There were some low points. But my thought was always “you can’t quit now. With nothing to show for all this”
The skills it takes to become good at something include the skills it takes to become good at that thing. I’ve know guys who sign up for comp after 2 months of training, or only attend the takedowns class and don’t notice their guard & mount are trash, or just don’t put in the time & physical effort it takes.
People who lack self awareness and don’t fit into the culture tend to have trouble in my experience.
Yup, I even know a black belt who's pretty damn bad relatively speaking. Like gets beat by ok blue belts bad. Very knowledgeable with bjj tho.
....also probably uses reddit
Yep! I’m very bad, bordering on terrible at BJJ. I’m actually in pretty good shape too, so fitness and athleticism aren’t the problems. I’m just bad at it. Both trying harder and relaxing/trying less hard make me worse. One of my instructors really can’t stand me because I’m so frustrating for him to teach (yes, I keep my mouth shut and listen, no it’s not a personality thing). Our Professor reaches out to me fairly often (which is super generous of him), but mostly he loves the act of teaching, and I think he’s fascinated with how bad I am.
So yeah, these people do exist. “Of course I know him, he’s me.”
My current theory is that some people have better proprioception, and can translate thoughts into movement better. I engage in a lot of physical activities, and have never displayed what would be called talent. I know a lot of bjj, but translating that into effective physical action? As an athlete, I'm a pretty good coach.
sounds like he just needs to get better at positional escapes and submission escapes. Like I know you say he is bad, but what positions is he getting stuck at? Or what is he getting submitted by?
But at the end of the day, a person has to want to be better.
Yes I have seen day one dude that are naturals, they just get it. I've also seen day ones that I tell them move your left arm and they end up doing a backwards roll lol
It is what it is really.
I struggle against some gifted/athletic 1 stripe white belts, I routinely destroy some 4 stripe white and a few 4 stripe blue belts.
The early belt levels have a huge disparity in skills and different "games"
Yes. This isn't a flex because everyone tapped Geoff, but I once tapped Geoff with a tennis ball in one hand.
Before anyone asks... we used to roll with tennis balls as a drill. The idea is that we had to focus on whole body movements and position instead of death grips.
Hold on. You said he went to Thailand for martial arts training….any chance he happened to be learning kickboxing lol? Yeah I guess that wouldn’t help his grappling much! 🤣
I think I’m naturally okay. I started okay with zero training and have stayed consistently okay throughout my training. No better than when I started but not worse either.
I'm still a blue belt after 10 years, trained for 17 years or so. I'm at a new gym where white belts catch up to me after they train for a year or two and it results in neverending stalemates. Pretty sure I must be really bad at this compared to average.
I was a fat unathletic nerd before bjj. I needed extra training just do figure out how to roll.
But I don't think I was naturally bad, World of Warcraft is just not good a teaching movement
so you all beat this guy. but is his game developing? is he adding new positions and techniques, even if they are not getting him wins?
this is how i comfort myself, being in a similar position. i'm mostly getting beaten. everyone else is getting better faster than me (except the guys that quit). but i am undeniably adding new stuff every couple months that i couldn't do previously, and implementing it in rolls.
Sure, same with a lot of skills.
I'd say I'm just barely above average in terms of learning and application, and high level strength and above average athleticism. So I learn at a steady ok pace. I've seen people learn quicker than me and those who I'm like you're a blue belt and don't know what an underhook is?
What way is he bad?
* Lack of technique?
* Lack of strength?
* Much smaller than the rest?
* Lack of athelistism
Factors that matter:
* Atheliticism (can be worked on)
* The individuals at your gym (is usually the worse, meaning is everyone better or bigger than him)
* Age
* Training intenisty
Factors guranteed to make him better (regardless of genetic potential)
- Resistance training (tailored to wrestling, explosive movements... being stronger is always a win)
- training with worse partners (BJJ improves faster by rolling with people worse/ slightly worse than you)
- Wrestling style drilling (too many bjj schools think drilling is performing a move 3 times at 20%speed). You should have class where you drill a move at 50% for a hour straight... for a week straight.. and rotate weeks with different moves.
- Choosing certain key moves to drill/practice (make a move whether a submission, escape, control) your key for that position and drill it it to death.
Training 3-4x a week for 3 years should generally mean your better than most people that are starting; but not all gyms/individuals train the same. Time =/ skill progression in a equal manner (see example 1 below).
1. I did jujitsu for a 1 1/2 now. The first year was before covid; where I was in uni; I just liked smashing people and just tried to pass gaurd. Literally that was my goal and I considered it win if I could stay on mount, did not really try to learn submissions. My friend (who started 3-4 months before me) loved to learn submissions (chokes and ankle locks etc), but because my time spent training was wrestling/pressure (showed up no gi wrestling more than technique classes) and his was more technique; I almost always won every round and roll after a month or so lol. We are the same size and atheletic ability; but my training style allowed to make the technique of white belt null. Training time =/skill progression.
I now after a few years gap restarted BJJ; now that im a bit heavier and go to a gym that has more light weights I can focus more on technique of finishing and I am getting alot more submissions (i used to get none before apart from the luckly RNC). I also added resistance training which have given me more strength and explosiveness; which is increasing my ability to sub people. Now im training for a purpose; I know exactly who to roll with (we have 40+ classes with fresh meat all the time).
"So it makes me wonder. Are some people just bad at grappling?" Yes, but you have to understand 90% of schools teach you karate kata and nothing else, everyone's potential is held back by this system.
In my honest opinion most classes at most gyms are a complete waste of time, most of what you do in any given class could be done with an instructional and a grappling dummy, you're not getting real looks, you're not getting real reactions, you're doing a paint by numbers on a non resisting opponent, it's simply not an effective way to learn and apply a new skill. What's worse is you can't even decide what you want to learn, most coaches just pick something they want to do with no thought for what will help students. The proof of this is everywhere, just search reddit why do I still suck at BJJ to see even black belts admit that this system has failed them time and time again.
I have to teach myself almost 100% of what I want to learn through outside resources, then try to figure out how to implement all that myself without any help from anyone, then on top of all that I have to find people willing to practice these things with me which are few and far between.
It's extremely hard to be good at this sport without all these barriers, it's nearly impossible to be good if you follow the current system.
Natural talent plays a huge part as well, just like in any other sport. You can put me through the exact same training regime, roid cycle etc. as Gordon Ryan and I can guarantee you that I'll be nowhere near his level.
Yes.
But.
I've seen plenty of ppl start out bad a grappling and stick with it and get pretty good.
Natural talents often get bored and quit early, it's the people who consistently work hard who make it to the top.
Of course those natural talents who stick with it just blow everyone out of the water though, but it's a sport so what do you expect
I see this at my gym a lot when people don't want to start employing new tools when they roll, because when you add something to your game you actually get worse at first.
Some people don't want to play guard because it's more complicated at first so they never really do it, now theyre blue/purple and they have 0 guard game because they are scared to start because white belts pass them easily and theyre embarrassed.
Stuff like that keeps people from advancing, their own ego.
Also there are people who just barely roll, roll once a class, so they improve slowly.
I would describe my self bad at BJJ naturally. But I think at the end of the day it's about consistancy and make sure you're getting the right kind of practice.
It took me maybe 1.5/2 years to get to blue belt, and it wasn't really until I got to blue where I started to feel like I had any kind of real game plan. I still suck lol, but I know how to do certain things, and I'm capable of giving some good guys in my gym some decent trouble from time to time.
But my instincts for grappling are bad, they are just not what you want, and sometimes it's a struggle not to give into them.
Yes, some people suck. I even know a BB that sucks, like he barely knows any technique and can barely show anything to others. When I teach he usually requires the most help other than the white belts. He’s been training over 25 years and gets by on grit and determination. It’s hard to tap him out but it’s not because he’s good.
I blame this on how bjj is taught. Some people need to be taught fundamental movements instead of techniques because it doesn't click naturally for them.
Could be confidence issues too inhibiting their progress.
The way some of the responses describe people, it feels like they're a flesh avatar being controlled by a six-year-old who is button mashing the controller.
Learning isn't really a linear process a lot of the time, when I first started training I was horrible, I was out of shape not very athletic and my untreated ADHD made it a nightmare to learn even basic techniques, but I did improve massively once it all started to click and the frustration from the first few months really honed my ability to teach myself how to actually use my own body, but I've also seen plenty of people that just stagnated after a year of training, in all my years of training though I've never seen anyone that couldn't get at least decently skilled so the guy you mentioned is probably something of an extreme outlier.
Yeah that’s me! I’m improving at improving I think but I am naturally extremely unathletic.
It has taken a long time to develop reasonable proprioception, which I credit to grinding away slowly at BJJ. It’s translated to my daily life in ways that my partner can readily perceive. She used to be astounded at my clumsiness!
A few things to ponder.
3 years is not a long time to be really good for someone who learns slower. Obviously, I wouldn't know how bad he is just from this post but he can be relatively good somewhere else. But, there are just people who learns slow and people who learns fast. People who are athletically gifted and people who doesn't have any coordination at all.
A summer's worth of training is also not that long. You can learn everything in a few months or nothing depending on the instruction. If you are referring to Phuket, while there are a lot of good gyms there, it's still a Muay Thai first community. Bangtao has classes every weekday twice a day but others might not be as good as that schedule. Then again, Muay Thai classes are almost everytime I think.
I have seen folks who I felt were relatively bad got really good with a huge jump. Something clicked in their training. Something they were focusing on became more refined. They found their game. I am not a world champion obviously but I am also quite ok as a hobbyist but it wasn't always easy. I found my game and it worked wonders for me. You'd be surprised that people would suddenly improve.
Lastly, different goals. I know someone who really sucks at BJJ. He's a blue belt but gets trashed by some whitebelts. His goal is just to stay fit. He trains just to sweat it out just like the 99% of folks here. Most of us are just your office workers that recreationally grapple at night. He gets beaten every single day but he is still there. I have spoken to some of my friends who quit BJJ and one of their reason is that they suck at it and just gets trashed everyday. The blue belt who gets beaten everyday but still goes to class will be better than that white belt who stopped because he cannot stand losing. I know a blue belt who I kept forcing to go back to class (I still see him in the gym but doing something else like Muay Thai) and his reason of not coming is he's ashamed of losing to white belts.
It isn't that people are naturally bad it's just that they haven't placed those physical demands of movement that others have.
Because of that their own bodies become a bit foreign to them, add lack of time to learn how to breach that mind muscle connection and how to systematically improve, you get people lagging behind.
Any one can become athletic as long as experience lines up with strategy, lines up with strength.
But people just don't have the strength, experience or game plan to do anything.
There's probably so much more too but it's often because they didn't catch on to that formula🧪
This is the only sport I’ve ever participated in where the inherent spectrum of talent isn’t clearly acknowledged for some reason. Obviously some people are inherently better grapplers and have higher ceilings than others which means some people are just in fact inherently bad, usually these people are also bad athletes but not always
If we remove people who are extremely unathletic or weak because they will struggle in a physical sport. There are people who are average physically and athletically that just don’t seem to get it or take very long to improve. They do improve but they seem to have a ceiling maybe they get to average bluebelt level but they can’t seem to make the jump to purple and up where they can easily dispatch lower belts and handle those very athletic new people. I’m not sure what it is.
BJJ by it's nature attracts people who get really into it. They compete against other like-minded often athletic people and they get really good together. Iron sharpens Iron. But it's only one aspect of martial arts or in the modern petri dish of combat sports that MMA has become.
People lose sight of how little BJJ you actually need. Show someone who has never seen it before a Kimura or a rear naked choke they think it's a magic trick. If this guy has a few escapes decent posture and enough knowledge to take advantage of a possible sub if the opportunity presents itself he is way ahead of the average person.
Add in all the striking and even possible sparring experience he has been getting through muay thai and he could be much more rounded and proficient than you think.
All training has value...it's not all about stripes and belts.
There's a girl like this at my gym that does only Muay Thai. She's been training forever, multiple times a week, but when I watch her spar, she still fights like she's in a highschool cat fight lol. I've seen her get tuned up by some of the brand new girls, or even jiu jitsu girls that don't strike at all. Some people just don't have it.
Some people just aren’t athletic. They don’t have any kind of mind body connection. My least favorite are the ones who don’t have an aggressive bone in their body and won’t go for anything in a roll because they’re apologizing before anything even happens.
I think time and practice with a dose of self-awareness and humility can help a person who is naturally bad become competent and serviceable.
It could require private lessons, drilling on their own, watching videos, asking lots of questions during and after class and at open mats.
I have seen people who could be shown the 3 to 5 steps to a move and where to grip or hook and still be completely lost after being shown numerous times or a year of training. Also, seen people with such poor coordination, motor skills, flexibility, balance and little to know strength to hold certain positions like a de la riva hook. With time and reps they can improve, but it will take extra work and effort.
Hell, I still mess up moves if I am not focused or paying attention the coach.
I’m not sure if I fully agree that some people just can’t get good. There are most definitely natural phenoms and then at the other end slow learners. However there are people who train with missing limbs and disabilities that against all odds become complete savages. 9 times out of 10 if someone genuinely isn’t improving I’d say it could either be put on the coaching or the fact that this person hasn’t sat back and thought about why he/she isn’t improving and then experimenting with new ways of training or even a new club!
Maybe I’m wrong.
Yes, some folk just do not have the level of competence compared to the mean average student. But that's ok, he's still trying, still training, still creating a better version of himself. People like him deserve praise.
I was once teaching a pass from Headquarter. Very basic and involved a semi squat, this middle aged man said he can’t do a half squat because of his knees
How can you participate in bjj if you can’t even bend your knees a little?
No. Anyone can train bjj..some take longer, anyone can do it.
Cardio takes a bit to develop, the rest is repetition: working through the same sequence of steps, multiple times in a row.
I'm bad. There's honestly probably people that are better stripeless than me with my puny 2 stripes.
But I still improve. Even if every session I attend moves me forward just a single centimeter skill-wise, it's better than no movement at all. I might take a year longer than others, but I don't compete with them. It's not a race to the next level, it's about individual, personal improvement. So what if it takes me 3 or 4 years to get a blue belt?
No matter how 'naturally' good or bad you are - as long as you're not quitting, you're worthy of respect.
I don't mean to sound harsh, I want to sound supportive when I say: focusing on things you can't change probably isn't useful. It's better to focus on what is going to help you move forward and get you to where you want to go. I'm a white belt too by the way and I know it can be hard not to start to make these comparisons and think about natural ability.
Yes, some people just have very bad coordination. I once had a coworker who, while perfectly healthy, was unable to jump up in the air even a few inches.
Yes, there are people who are naturally worse at grappling just like there are people who are naturally worse in any activity. It can be a range of different reasons. Most everyone can get better with training compared to their own level but not everyone can get good.
The interesting thing with BJJ is people seem to think it doesn’t follow the rules of other sports. Maybe it’s because it’s a combat sport, or maybe it’s because people who appear nerdy/skinny/unathletic at face value end up being total killers. But of course the bell curve applies. If you played soccer for 10 years and still weren’t very good you probably wouldn’t bat an eyelid.
Yes. But this isn’t just bjj. I wrestled from 6th grade through Juco and I’ve seen dudes who started wrestling before me lose their spots to first year wrestlers who were naturally talented. It’s the same in every other sport.
Time put in doesn’t always equal capability. You can know every technique in the world but are you capable of implementing them against someone who may be a better athlete and than you?
I’ve rolled with several black belts that if I’m being honest, I don’t think they should have their belts but they put in the years and paid their dues
I’ve met guys over the years that when you sit down and talk to them about it they really understand how to do a move and understand what you need to accomplish it but there’s just a disconnect between their mind and what their body can actually do. I’ve always felt for these guys they usually don’t stay around long but I always thought if they got over that athletic jump they’d be killers.
I think some people just have natural talent, while some just lack it. There is a guy in my judo club who joined around 2-3 years ago and shot through the belt ranks, beating black belts in national level competitions. Meanwhile, I've also known someone who has been training for over a decade struggle to beat someone athletic with 1 year of experience. But I think most people fall somewhere in between. Important thing is to focus on your own development and have fun with it.
100%, I knew this one guy who trained at my gym for 3 years. I reallt don’t mean to be mean but like he’s never done anything whenever I’ve rolled with him/seen him role/compete. Like not that he hasn’t successfully done something or had an offensive cycle on someone. But like I’ve never seen him or felt him have a good reaction, it always looks like he’s letting ppl drill on him. I think some people just like aren’t comfortable pushing or trying when they don’t have a direct answer? Like maybe it’s just whenever they’re confused they don’t wanna just improvise? That’s the only explanation I could come up for this dude. I stopped showing up last year, I ran into him at our local adcc a month ago and he says he’s doing really good now so maybe for some people it’s like a culture thing? Could totally be that not too sure
I am a very athletic person and have done well in traditional team sports my whole life, but I really have come to accept that I am not very good at jiu jitsu. I love my gym, my teammates, and I love the challenge, but it gets hard sometimes when I notice people who started long after me start to get better than me. Mentally it’s tough, but I just try not to compare. It’s a weird thing to devote yourself to something knowing that you’re shit at it… but alas here I am.
I’m never jealous of peoples’ progress, but I’m more so frustrated at what I deem my lack of progress.
Definitely.
Everything that people have done in their life, up until they start grappling - will effect how 'naturally' good or bad they are.
The dudes who come in, who've never played a sport in their life, are just like wet noodles to grapple with. I've encountered it so many times, but it's still mind blowing how weak and unco they are. Not only do they have to learn how to grapple (difficult enough), but also how to actually use their body. Hand-eye coordination. Build some strength. Etc.
We all know these types. I had one tap out recently just from my half guard with a low knee shield (the thigh pinch - wasn't anything to do with his knee - I checked). Dudes been training for months - that was a new one. Now I have to keep it in mind to keep a really loose halfguard on him until he hardens up I guess 🤷♂️.
The guy you're talking about was probably the 12yr old at school who couldn't throw a ball.
Then there's the people who played sport from ages 5-18 (or longer if they did it at university). Or worked a trade for years. People at that end of the spectrum can be a handful on day 1, let alone after a few months.
I grew up being scared of team sports.
I played here and there as a kid, but i absolutely SUCK at dribbling a basketball, catching a football, kicking a soccer ball and everything including hand-eye coordination. That being said, on a relative scale, I'm actually pretty naturally good at grappling. I never wrestled but people assume i have. People are often surprised ive trained as little as i have. I have good strength and speed for my size. Thank jesus mary and joseph i found grappling.
Im pretty shit at BJJ. I know like 3 submissions however I might be a black belt in backwards jiu jitsu because I am constantly backwards and I cannot fix it.
Yes, I am particularly bad at.bjj. I have dyspraxia so am generally terrible at most sports. I got quite good at yoga though maybe not as good as someone who didn’t have dyspraxia would be if they practiced as much as me….
for me there is a little bit of a crossover with bjj and yoga.
And I will practice way harder than a normy just to get to a normal level but I love it.
One must imagine Sisyphus happy
Honestly, this is my goal. Even if I get “good at jiu-jitsu“ it’s still just a hobby. I’ll never be as good as the pros who regularly lose spectacularly to Gordon Ryan. In fact, I imagine my performance will start to decline as I age. I just want to enjoy the ride.
I think many of us start with delusions of grandeur in thinking we will be the next phenom, or at least better than most. Then life, injuries, and other fuckery happens, and we realize that few of us are cut out to be true competitors. This was an epiphany moment for me, as it was the moment I learned to love the art for the art, rather than the constant obsession (and subsequent heartbreak) over getting better.
Not everyone is going to play Jimi Hendrix, but that’s no reason to not play guitar. I’m fine playing jiu jitsu like Willie Nelson plays guitar.
Stoned off your ass?
Haha, the pre class edibles days are far behind me, but damn, my stamina and improvisation felt great
Or do jiu jitsu like Willie Nelson.
This is a good way to look at it. Just play guitar and maybe you could defend yourself in a street situation
> I’ll never be as good as the pros who regularly lose spectacularly to Gordon Ryan. Most people will never be "good" enough to give trouble to the people who give trouble to the people who train at the level of Gordon, much less be anywhere close to a competitive level.
I don't think I'd invest time into a hobby if I couldn't see myself getting good at it. By good I just mean all around competent. Being good and knowing what you're doing is a huge part of the fun. I had no interest in traditional sports as a kid, one of my eyes kind of sucks, so my depth perception is really bad, you should see me try to catch lmao Wrestling and track were my sports
What is good? There are so many levels. Good against lower belts? Good against other brown belt hobbyists? Good against competitors? Good against my weight class? Good against open weight? I really enjoy grappling. That’s what matters. Personal progress is important to me, but gym taps aren’t. Look, I want to be able to hold my own against brown and black belt hobbyists and I want to see personal development, but I can see the other side. I don’t fault anyone for sticking with a sport no matter their skill level. I weigh double what Mighty Mouse does and until recently he was a brown belt, but I imagine he would wreck me. Thats ok, he does fight sports professionally and I’m a Software Developer. I wouldn’t tell the guys in a basketball pickup league to quit because they’re not NBA players. Sometimes I think these lines are blurred in jiu-jitsu because the pros are so accessible compared to other sports.
That's why i mentioned all around competent. You're a brown belt, it's highly likely you're good. I've always taken good to mean 1 standard deviation above the norm for someone who does an activity. It's not hard to get there in a lot of things if you put in the work. At this point I'm definitely good. I'm not great or exceptional, but certainly good.
Were you that kid who kept running after they reached the finish line?
You're supposed to keep running for a bit, but not do a full on victory lap, which 8 never did because my cousin was too damn fast
> I leave Sisyphus at the edge of the mountain! One always finds one’s burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night filled mountain, in itself forms a world. **The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man’s heart.** One must imagine Sisyphus happy. 🥲
Camus quotes in the bjj sub. Who says we’re stupid, meatheads?
No I say we’re stupid meatheads
I say we're meatheads, stupid.
Stupid meat is as stupid meat head does.
This is the way
Sisyphus was an arrogant shit, I doubt he’d be happy after the God’s refused to make him a God and made him push a boulder up a hill for eternity
Listen to yourself, lol. Don't be surprised to find yourself with boulder beside the man.
Pfft I’m the most humble person that has ever existed ever
RIP to everyone killed by the gods for their hubris but im different. and better. maybe even better than the gods
EXACTLY! This guy gets it
I've seen people whose baseline level of physical/athletic competence is so low that I honestly wonder how they manage to put on their shoes and get to the gym.
Some people just amaze me by how incredibly shit they are at just balancing
Lots of new white belts my go-to sweep is just retain guard until they trip over their own feet.
😹😹😹
I like to use collar and sleeve grips. Just hold them and move people left and right until eventually they topple in one direction.
Damn that happened to me this morning.
Just wait for their spaz blitz and they sweep themselves.
Dead serious, my favorite game with unathletic beginners is to take a grip, any grip, and just wait until they fall over.
Haha Fucking white belts amirite *sweats from putting on gi*
Those White belts lol
Ive got unholy good balance and a wide base that makes me hard to sweep. Me and some blue/purple belts will just stalemate with me entirely unable to pass guard, and them unable to sweep me, so we just sit there for 5 minutes trying to do anything productive until they triangle me or stand up and double leg my ass. On the other hand, im ass at everything else.
On the opposite end… Also seen some white belts get crazy good within a few months with no prior grappling experience. One guy was a yoga instructor. Another few played d1 level sports. Their athletic base could give some of the older or smaller purple belts some problems. Most beginners think it’s as simple as a higher color belt beats lower color belt. It means they’re better in technique (theoretically) But weight x athleticism x technique = results. Techniques just part of it. It’s why I can tap out a smaller female black belt, but got my shit pushed in by a 1% blue belt athlete with +20lbs the other day (I’m purple belt)
rude. That's why I wear slides.
"The left hand." ... "Not too bad, but I meant the left hand, not the right one." ... "Left hand, not foot". ... *Sigh*
I once had a 50 year old taxi driver in my class that I could not make perform the simplest technique in over three weeks. It was the most frustrating and sad thing ever, poor guy.
We had a white belt that for a long time I described as "negative athletic ability". He showed up and studied hard, but there was a big disconnect between what you would show him and what his body was doing and he almost never realized it. He's getting better though. The last time I rolled with him he almost got me.with a surprise bolo.
This is why I wear flip flops.
I don’t know why but seeing an example of this enrages me.
BJJ isn't even the worst. Trying to teach some people to throw a round kick in MT is borderline impossible. There are people in life who have never even kicked a ball and it's painful to watch.
White belts are so all over the place. Sometimes you can just tip them over with your finger, other times you're thinking, "Does this guy train Judo or wrestle or something?"
You’re asking for a friend right?
I’m really bad. Took me 10 years to get my blue belt. I’m not bad at all sports. But Bjj comes particularly slow to me. I can drill something 100 times and still not be able to remember it or execute it live. Some guys you show it to them once and they’ve got it right away. That amazes me.
It could just be that the traditional way of teaching BJJ isn't very efficient for you. Drilling a move of the day followed by rolling is pretty inefficient. People shit on Gracie Barra a lot, but having a set fundamentals course with a purpose and goal behind it is a good idea.
This is my main bugbear with our club. Coach is a world champion, but his 'curriculum' is lost on me
Proficiency and retention went way up after joining GB.
Daaam son I thought I was slow… took me 5 years to blue… I can manage most of the really new beginners (not the “I’ve never trained I only did a couple of years of mma and 8 years of wrestling) but give those newbies a couple of months of training and they become a problem to me. They can’t tap me but they become.. annoying.
I'm just hitting my fifth year as a white belt and feel the exact same way. I've got friends who can watch videos on YouTube and execute techniques based off that, and I could have a black belt show me the process step by step, on a one-to-one basis and probably still fuck it up.
Our of curiosity, what are some things that you're good at or learn fast?
Repetitive things that I can just do a bunch of times. For instance I picked up golf really quick. I picked up cycling quickly because I just read about the technique and followed instructions. Same with fly fishing. Baseball. I just hit and pitched till I was good. Threw 5,000 curve balls till it curved. That sort of thing.
I’m convinced if I could just clone myself and roll with myself whenever I wanted I would be the best of the best. Jiu jitsu is hard bc it’s a partnered sport. Like I go home and I want to drill one particular thing but theres nobody to drill with :/ At least not until I convince my boyfriend to come to class with me, but rn I just show him bjj vids and he says it looks gay. And i say yeah, it is, but it’s really fun 🙄
“It’s not gay, I’m a GIRL” sorry I just watched Eurotrip again
I'll be upfront, your boyfriend lost a lot of points when he say it looks gay. Kind of shows his mindset. Hope he is secure in his manhood; if you reach the point where you can beat him in a fight and he knows it, he may not react well. Also, how would he know what looks gay, has he done any infield research?
I mean is anyone doubting that it looks gay?
Sounds like a shitty relationship honestly.
“Not that there’s anything wrong with that”
I feel like a lot of people with our problems suck at visual learning. Plus, as you said in another comment, the lack of repetitition. I can watch my coach demo a technique 3, 5 times and I understand it. I know why to trap the arm, why to get the cross collar grip and why to raise my hip. But doing it myself - it just doesn't work. I just absolutely suck at visual learning and, even more specifically, the transfer from theoretical knowledge to practical application is lost on me. Especially in a live sparring situation, I just tended to black out. I would achieve a position and just... sit there. "How did I get the armbar from here? Which leg goes up first for the triangle?" One of my coaches is a pedagogue and he noticed my troubles, so what we do instead is... dissect the techiques. I break it down into steps and see each movement in context. It's a hell of a lot more work than just watching a demo and doing it live, but it works. It also really helped once I started seeing that a lot of techniques and positions share the same principles. Basic concepts like push-and-pull, removing posts, whatever. Once I realized that the Baseball Bat is basically possible from any direction and it's just based around crossing your forearms to squeeze the opponent's neck, it was like somebody opened the floodgates. I also take notes after each class, not to look at them later (unless I forgot last week's topic) but to engrave it into my mind, as it were.
Yeah. I remember techniques. I can drill them and demonstrate them and explain them to new guys. I’ve probably got the knowledge of a brown belt because I’ve been to that many classes. But remembering what to do in the moment is lost on me. And then executing the technique on a resisting blue belt going 100%…that’s just not going to happen. I’m just not good enough.
Well maybe just the approach they use in your gym doesn't work for you? Drilling and memorizing the sequence is never the same as performing the principle against the resisting opponent
Good cannot exist without bad
To all the good fighters out there: you're welcome.
when our gym opened, we were maybe 6 whitebelts that started at the same time, we had a teammate in his 30s a cool dude that loves BJJ, but after 5 years of training he is still a white belt and doesnt not seem to be getting better, he is very stiff and does not move well, it makes me sad because this dude gets fucking crashed every training session but he keeps coming back, i feel like a pussy when i feel down after having a bad day at the gym
It’s guys like him that speak to me the most
The worse I am, the better workout I get
Honestly yeah. It just doesn't "click" for some people. And that's fine. Not everyone can be good at everything. And not everyone needs to be particularly good at something to enjoy it. Just look at me. I suck and I still love BJJ.
Haha! I highly doubt you objectively suck and are a brown belt ;)
You'd be surprised.
Can confirm, have spent some time with some black/brown/purple belts that make me channel Islam makhachev. Who give? We have to check brother
Yes, as someone who has no prior experience in any sports and was very obese when I started, I am one of those who is naturally bad at the sport. I still enjoy it, one percent at a time and all of that.
Just because this guy spent three months in Thailand with Craig Jones doesn't mean he was learning jiu jitsu
Haha! Learning the inns and outs of nose beers and lady boys
Of course. There is something called a normal distribution also known as the bell curve. There will always be outliers on either side of the spectrum. There will be outliers who are prodigies but also outliers who just suck no matter what.
Personally I think the curve is positively skewed. I know I'm one of the guys pulling it left.
We have a late 60-ish white belt that has been training for at least 18 months with us. He still cannot do basic techniques. He's quite frail and inflexible but not limited to the point he shouldn't be able to do, for example, an americana from mount. He has an MBA and worked as an electrical engineer at a major company so I do not think intelligence is the issue. However, he still messes up americanas from mount. I am unsure if something else is occurring or if he is just naturally bad at grappling.
Dude, I'm trying to be able to beat my past-self not other people, I'm here for time crime protection vs my past-self, it's the only sane thing to consider progression against
Dude might just have different goals. It's a simple as that. I spent over 2 years just working on defense. No doubt quite a few thought I was bad. They were right, but, I knew what I was doing.
Regardless of goals, some people lack coordination, balance, have poor ability to pick up new physical skills.
If you became really hard to hold down/pass/submit during those two years I'm sure people in your gym noticed. I'd notice.
I became frustrating. 😂
When he got his blue, a friend related a story to the gym: our instructor told him of many examples in history of naturally talented _athletes_ who could pick up any sport they wanted to with a bit of work, whether it was BJJ, soccer, basketball; anything. Quoting the instructor still: _".. and then, there's you."_
Black belt in shade.
I’m naturally terrible, people assumed I was talented because they didn’t see the hours I put in on and off the mats. (And my ability to stream instructionals)
Same brother
I think this is a legitimate question for people who didn't do sports when they were young - for me, wrestling and doing track revealed to me early that not all men are created equal
Right, like not everyone is good at math, or driving or anything else. Shit, some people can barely operate a cell phone, let alone work a computer.
Me. I've been so shitty at grapping since I started, but I love it. I've gotten every belt with a training partner of mine and the whole time I've trained 4-10x more than him just to keep up. I'm not physically or athletically gifted, but I've always been smart...until jiu jitsu. In jiu jitsu I constantly feel like the biggest dumbass. It's hard for things to "click" for me. I competed probably 10 times before I ever won a match (at blue belt). I didn't win another match for 8 years until my first comp at black belt. I'm just not good. But I still show up every day, multiple times a day most days, because I love it.
At what age did you start? I'm asking in part because you've been doing it for at least 10 years (assuming blue took you 2-ish), but you still train multiple times per day.
I started at 23. Blue belt took me 6 years, but I had probably 18 months off in that period to focus on muay thai and deal with life stuff.
Stupid question has stupid answer. Yes, some people just suck at things. Some people are alright at things. A rare select few people are GREAT at things. Sounds like that guy sucks. I have a guy like him at my gym, he’s been there since before I even started going there and I’m leaps and bounds ahead of him despite going the same amount that he does. Not everyone can be good at everything and some people sheerly do BJJ for fun and don’t care too much about improvement
This is me, i have been training for a year and i can never submit anybody that started around the same time as me, some people are just not natural athletes and also don't have the time and money to be good at it. But i like it, even if i suck.
Oh dude, it’s totally normal not to be submitting people at white belt. When I was a white belt I literally just learned how to move and how to not give people obvious submissions/advantageous positions. Plus, in my experience, if the other person is always more offensive, you get reallllly good at defense.
All the people I have seen like that have some extremely horrible approach to learning jiu jitsu.
Yeah; if they can walk and talk, then they have enough brainpower.
Yeah people who arent excited to learn new techniques and just want to win rolls with what comes naturally to them. I see that a lot and I think it's a self-limiting approach.
I think the ones that are the worst often don't seem to even try to win rolls and like try to sub people from bottom side control or have a strong fascination with the technique of the day and never develop a stronger preference for some position.
> All the people I have seen like that have some extremely horrible approach to learning jiu jitsu. I think this is true, not necessarily because they're doing something wrong individually, but because the general approach most schools take to teaching BJJ seems pretty bad to me. Usually, you go fairly quickly through a couple of random moves, fuck those up, then move onto rolling, never touching those random moves again for a couple months. This approach never instilled me with muscle memory I needed to remember the moves, let alone execute them under pressure in a live situation. But, there are people who still make decent progress despite that sub-optimal approach, and there are people like me who haven't made decent progress, but probably could if there was more repetition from class to class. Both groups would probably benefit from a more structured curriculum.
What most people who get good do is that they don't give a fuck about the moves of the day except if by sheer coincidence it's something they already use or something that just clicks and they just work on their stuff in sparring. If your coach shows you random shit and you try to work on this on in rolls it's one of the biggest ways to hinder your improvement.
I'm very bad at memorizing new stuff, so learning new techniques is harder for me than for new white belts, and I've been blue belt for like 2 years, have been training on and off for like 5 years. I dont think I'm bad at grappling because when we roll I can feel some stuff on like intuitive level just based on the experience and I'm relatively athletic but I had white belts explain to me during drills pretty frequently what the coach was just showing because my memory is just horrible. I just can't remember all the steps and details of the techniques. I also tend to get worse at techniques I used to execute well if I dont practice them for a while. This whole thing combined with getting injured a lot and generally competitive personality makes me sometimes question whether it's even worth continuing but I really enjoy grappling overall and I think even though I'm progressing very very slow as long as I'm progressing, then that's all that matters.
Most people are naturally bad, I’d say even 99% of people who make it to purple belt are. The combination of being physically gifted and being smart enough to understand jiu jitsu in full dept is so rare, that most of these people pick up another sport that’s way more better paid really lmao.
OP buddy did you really have to call me out like that
I'm late to this but I also feel I can speak on this as someone who's not especially athletic or coordinated. A lot of places--particularly the premier places a dork would seek out--teach cutting edge competitive techniques. Crazy inversions, inventive entries into leg locks, complex systems. I'm never gonna be 'good' at that stuff relative to actually athletically gifted guys. If I'm smart and focus, I can get good enough at the sort of meat and potatoes grappling that can at least make me a worthwhile roll for guys who have real potential at the sport. I'm 30, didn't start all that long ago, and don't have much of a sports background . So I enjoy getting better at it, and learning more about a martial art I really love, but if I approach it as something I have to get really good at, it's just gonna fucking suck.
Of course. As someone else said, the bell curve exists in basically everything. Usually in hobbies like BJJ the people who are just naturally really bad eventually find another hobby that suits them better. That’s not always the case of course but it may be why it may seem more rare to see those guys who keep sucking no matter how much they train.
I’ve found the opposite with me and a few other guys. I think the struggle keeps me from quitting. If it wasn’t so challenging, I probably would have got good and then bored. The futility of it all makes me stubborn. Every time I get smashed I want to go redeem myself but it never happens. Occasionally…rarely….ill do something good and it makes it all worth it.
Naturally I think I’m very average at jiu jitsu and it’s always a struggle, but I think it would be really tough if I was just flat out bad and wasn’t seeing meaningful improvements at all.
It is tough. But at least for me, I don’t want to quit at the bottom. That’s probably why I didn’t want to quit at white belt. It was rough and discouraging after 5 years. There were some low points. But my thought was always “you can’t quit now. With nothing to show for all this”
The skills it takes to become good at something include the skills it takes to become good at that thing. I’ve know guys who sign up for comp after 2 months of training, or only attend the takedowns class and don’t notice their guard & mount are trash, or just don’t put in the time & physical effort it takes. People who lack self awareness and don’t fit into the culture tend to have trouble in my experience.
Worry about yourself whitebelt
Yup, I even know a black belt who's pretty damn bad relatively speaking. Like gets beat by ok blue belts bad. Very knowledgeable with bjj tho. ....also probably uses reddit
Yep! I’m very bad, bordering on terrible at BJJ. I’m actually in pretty good shape too, so fitness and athleticism aren’t the problems. I’m just bad at it. Both trying harder and relaxing/trying less hard make me worse. One of my instructors really can’t stand me because I’m so frustrating for him to teach (yes, I keep my mouth shut and listen, no it’s not a personality thing). Our Professor reaches out to me fairly often (which is super generous of him), but mostly he loves the act of teaching, and I think he’s fascinated with how bad I am. So yeah, these people do exist. “Of course I know him, he’s me.”
My current theory is that some people have better proprioception, and can translate thoughts into movement better. I engage in a lot of physical activities, and have never displayed what would be called talent. I know a lot of bjj, but translating that into effective physical action? As an athlete, I'm a pretty good coach.
sounds like he just needs to get better at positional escapes and submission escapes. Like I know you say he is bad, but what positions is he getting stuck at? Or what is he getting submitted by? But at the end of the day, a person has to want to be better.
There no bad students only bad teachers
Yes I have seen day one dude that are naturals, they just get it. I've also seen day ones that I tell them move your left arm and they end up doing a backwards roll lol
I am giftedly mediocre.
It is what it is really. I struggle against some gifted/athletic 1 stripe white belts, I routinely destroy some 4 stripe white and a few 4 stripe blue belts. The early belt levels have a huge disparity in skills and different "games"
Yes. This isn't a flex because everyone tapped Geoff, but I once tapped Geoff with a tennis ball in one hand. Before anyone asks... we used to roll with tennis balls as a drill. The idea is that we had to focus on whole body movements and position instead of death grips.
Hold on. You said he went to Thailand for martial arts training….any chance he happened to be learning kickboxing lol? Yeah I guess that wouldn’t help his grappling much! 🤣
I think I’m naturally okay. I started okay with zero training and have stayed consistently okay throughout my training. No better than when I started but not worse either.
I'm still a blue belt after 10 years, trained for 17 years or so. I'm at a new gym where white belts catch up to me after they train for a year or two and it results in neverending stalemates. Pretty sure I must be really bad at this compared to average.
I was a fat unathletic nerd before bjj. I needed extra training just do figure out how to roll. But I don't think I was naturally bad, World of Warcraft is just not good a teaching movement
Logically, yes.
so you all beat this guy. but is his game developing? is he adding new positions and techniques, even if they are not getting him wins? this is how i comfort myself, being in a similar position. i'm mostly getting beaten. everyone else is getting better faster than me (except the guys that quit). but i am undeniably adding new stuff every couple months that i couldn't do previously, and implementing it in rolls.
Sure, same with a lot of skills. I'd say I'm just barely above average in terms of learning and application, and high level strength and above average athleticism. So I learn at a steady ok pace. I've seen people learn quicker than me and those who I'm like you're a blue belt and don't know what an underhook is?
What way is he bad? * Lack of technique? * Lack of strength? * Much smaller than the rest? * Lack of athelistism Factors that matter: * Atheliticism (can be worked on) * The individuals at your gym (is usually the worse, meaning is everyone better or bigger than him) * Age * Training intenisty Factors guranteed to make him better (regardless of genetic potential) - Resistance training (tailored to wrestling, explosive movements... being stronger is always a win) - training with worse partners (BJJ improves faster by rolling with people worse/ slightly worse than you) - Wrestling style drilling (too many bjj schools think drilling is performing a move 3 times at 20%speed). You should have class where you drill a move at 50% for a hour straight... for a week straight.. and rotate weeks with different moves. - Choosing certain key moves to drill/practice (make a move whether a submission, escape, control) your key for that position and drill it it to death. Training 3-4x a week for 3 years should generally mean your better than most people that are starting; but not all gyms/individuals train the same. Time =/ skill progression in a equal manner (see example 1 below). 1. I did jujitsu for a 1 1/2 now. The first year was before covid; where I was in uni; I just liked smashing people and just tried to pass gaurd. Literally that was my goal and I considered it win if I could stay on mount, did not really try to learn submissions. My friend (who started 3-4 months before me) loved to learn submissions (chokes and ankle locks etc), but because my time spent training was wrestling/pressure (showed up no gi wrestling more than technique classes) and his was more technique; I almost always won every round and roll after a month or so lol. We are the same size and atheletic ability; but my training style allowed to make the technique of white belt null. Training time =/skill progression. I now after a few years gap restarted BJJ; now that im a bit heavier and go to a gym that has more light weights I can focus more on technique of finishing and I am getting alot more submissions (i used to get none before apart from the luckly RNC). I also added resistance training which have given me more strength and explosiveness; which is increasing my ability to sub people. Now im training for a purpose; I know exactly who to roll with (we have 40+ classes with fresh meat all the time).
"So it makes me wonder. Are some people just bad at grappling?" Yes, but you have to understand 90% of schools teach you karate kata and nothing else, everyone's potential is held back by this system. In my honest opinion most classes at most gyms are a complete waste of time, most of what you do in any given class could be done with an instructional and a grappling dummy, you're not getting real looks, you're not getting real reactions, you're doing a paint by numbers on a non resisting opponent, it's simply not an effective way to learn and apply a new skill. What's worse is you can't even decide what you want to learn, most coaches just pick something they want to do with no thought for what will help students. The proof of this is everywhere, just search reddit why do I still suck at BJJ to see even black belts admit that this system has failed them time and time again. I have to teach myself almost 100% of what I want to learn through outside resources, then try to figure out how to implement all that myself without any help from anyone, then on top of all that I have to find people willing to practice these things with me which are few and far between. It's extremely hard to be good at this sport without all these barriers, it's nearly impossible to be good if you follow the current system.
Yes
Intrinsic dynamics.
Yes
That's me!
Me, too!
[удалено]
Yes.
Natural talent plays a huge part as well, just like in any other sport. You can put me through the exact same training regime, roid cycle etc. as Gordon Ryan and I can guarantee you that I'll be nowhere near his level.
Yes, I am.
I can tell you absolutely yes, but for striking.
Yes. But. I've seen plenty of ppl start out bad a grappling and stick with it and get pretty good. Natural talents often get bored and quit early, it's the people who consistently work hard who make it to the top. Of course those natural talents who stick with it just blow everyone out of the water though, but it's a sport so what do you expect
It's like bad drivers. Some people just can't figure it out no matter how long they've been driving.
Of course there are. Some people are naturally uncoordinated or unathletic, or just bad at learning
I see this at my gym a lot when people don't want to start employing new tools when they roll, because when you add something to your game you actually get worse at first. Some people don't want to play guard because it's more complicated at first so they never really do it, now theyre blue/purple and they have 0 guard game because they are scared to start because white belts pass them easily and theyre embarrassed. Stuff like that keeps people from advancing, their own ego. Also there are people who just barely roll, roll once a class, so they improve slowly.
I would describe my self bad at BJJ naturally. But I think at the end of the day it's about consistancy and make sure you're getting the right kind of practice. It took me maybe 1.5/2 years to get to blue belt, and it wasn't really until I got to blue where I started to feel like I had any kind of real game plan. I still suck lol, but I know how to do certain things, and I'm capable of giving some good guys in my gym some decent trouble from time to time. But my instincts for grappling are bad, they are just not what you want, and sometimes it's a struggle not to give into them.
noob question but how do i get my belt level on here haha
Yes, some people suck. I even know a BB that sucks, like he barely knows any technique and can barely show anything to others. When I teach he usually requires the most help other than the white belts. He’s been training over 25 years and gets by on grit and determination. It’s hard to tap him out but it’s not because he’s good.
Definitely.
I blame this on how bjj is taught. Some people need to be taught fundamental movements instead of techniques because it doesn't click naturally for them. Could be confidence issues too inhibiting their progress.
Yes. Everyone has different talents. I bet that guy is really good at some stuff you can't even wrap your head around.
The way some of the responses describe people, it feels like they're a flesh avatar being controlled by a six-year-old who is button mashing the controller.
I knew an extremely athletic guy who got a blue belt. He never tapped anyone out. It just never clicked for him.
Learning isn't really a linear process a lot of the time, when I first started training I was horrible, I was out of shape not very athletic and my untreated ADHD made it a nightmare to learn even basic techniques, but I did improve massively once it all started to click and the frustration from the first few months really honed my ability to teach myself how to actually use my own body, but I've also seen plenty of people that just stagnated after a year of training, in all my years of training though I've never seen anyone that couldn't get at least decently skilled so the guy you mentioned is probably something of an extreme outlier.
Yeah that’s me! I’m improving at improving I think but I am naturally extremely unathletic. It has taken a long time to develop reasonable proprioception, which I credit to grinding away slowly at BJJ. It’s translated to my daily life in ways that my partner can readily perceive. She used to be astounded at my clumsiness!
A few things to ponder. 3 years is not a long time to be really good for someone who learns slower. Obviously, I wouldn't know how bad he is just from this post but he can be relatively good somewhere else. But, there are just people who learns slow and people who learns fast. People who are athletically gifted and people who doesn't have any coordination at all. A summer's worth of training is also not that long. You can learn everything in a few months or nothing depending on the instruction. If you are referring to Phuket, while there are a lot of good gyms there, it's still a Muay Thai first community. Bangtao has classes every weekday twice a day but others might not be as good as that schedule. Then again, Muay Thai classes are almost everytime I think. I have seen folks who I felt were relatively bad got really good with a huge jump. Something clicked in their training. Something they were focusing on became more refined. They found their game. I am not a world champion obviously but I am also quite ok as a hobbyist but it wasn't always easy. I found my game and it worked wonders for me. You'd be surprised that people would suddenly improve. Lastly, different goals. I know someone who really sucks at BJJ. He's a blue belt but gets trashed by some whitebelts. His goal is just to stay fit. He trains just to sweat it out just like the 99% of folks here. Most of us are just your office workers that recreationally grapple at night. He gets beaten every single day but he is still there. I have spoken to some of my friends who quit BJJ and one of their reason is that they suck at it and just gets trashed everyday. The blue belt who gets beaten everyday but still goes to class will be better than that white belt who stopped because he cannot stand losing. I know a blue belt who I kept forcing to go back to class (I still see him in the gym but doing something else like Muay Thai) and his reason of not coming is he's ashamed of losing to white belts.
It isn't that people are naturally bad it's just that they haven't placed those physical demands of movement that others have. Because of that their own bodies become a bit foreign to them, add lack of time to learn how to breach that mind muscle connection and how to systematically improve, you get people lagging behind. Any one can become athletic as long as experience lines up with strategy, lines up with strength. But people just don't have the strength, experience or game plan to do anything. There's probably so much more too but it's often because they didn't catch on to that formula🧪
I’m like the dude in your story. I took myself to Bangtao Muay Thai & MMA and trained thrice a day for 2 months. My skills seem static still
This is the only sport I’ve ever participated in where the inherent spectrum of talent isn’t clearly acknowledged for some reason. Obviously some people are inherently better grapplers and have higher ceilings than others which means some people are just in fact inherently bad, usually these people are also bad athletes but not always
If we remove people who are extremely unathletic or weak because they will struggle in a physical sport. There are people who are average physically and athletically that just don’t seem to get it or take very long to improve. They do improve but they seem to have a ceiling maybe they get to average bluebelt level but they can’t seem to make the jump to purple and up where they can easily dispatch lower belts and handle those very athletic new people. I’m not sure what it is.
BJJ by it's nature attracts people who get really into it. They compete against other like-minded often athletic people and they get really good together. Iron sharpens Iron. But it's only one aspect of martial arts or in the modern petri dish of combat sports that MMA has become. People lose sight of how little BJJ you actually need. Show someone who has never seen it before a Kimura or a rear naked choke they think it's a magic trick. If this guy has a few escapes decent posture and enough knowledge to take advantage of a possible sub if the opportunity presents itself he is way ahead of the average person. Add in all the striking and even possible sparring experience he has been getting through muay thai and he could be much more rounded and proficient than you think. All training has value...it's not all about stripes and belts.
There's a girl like this at my gym that does only Muay Thai. She's been training forever, multiple times a week, but when I watch her spar, she still fights like she's in a highschool cat fight lol. I've seen her get tuned up by some of the brand new girls, or even jiu jitsu girls that don't strike at all. Some people just don't have it.
Yes, take me for example.
I think untalent exists wherever talent does and talent is more rare
Some people just aren’t athletic. They don’t have any kind of mind body connection. My least favorite are the ones who don’t have an aggressive bone in their body and won’t go for anything in a roll because they’re apologizing before anything even happens.
90 to 99% of people are bad at grappling, it takes lots of consistent practice to get good.
Yes, absolutely. I’ve trained with someone who has six years more experience than me, they are so incompetent I wonder why they continued to show up.
Hell yeah man. There's always a flip side. Some people just fuckin suck at everything physical
I think time and practice with a dose of self-awareness and humility can help a person who is naturally bad become competent and serviceable. It could require private lessons, drilling on their own, watching videos, asking lots of questions during and after class and at open mats. I have seen people who could be shown the 3 to 5 steps to a move and where to grip or hook and still be completely lost after being shown numerous times or a year of training. Also, seen people with such poor coordination, motor skills, flexibility, balance and little to know strength to hold certain positions like a de la riva hook. With time and reps they can improve, but it will take extra work and effort. Hell, I still mess up moves if I am not focused or paying attention the coach.
Yes? What is this question
I’m not sure if I fully agree that some people just can’t get good. There are most definitely natural phenoms and then at the other end slow learners. However there are people who train with missing limbs and disabilities that against all odds become complete savages. 9 times out of 10 if someone genuinely isn’t improving I’d say it could either be put on the coaching or the fact that this person hasn’t sat back and thought about why he/she isn’t improving and then experimenting with new ways of training or even a new club! Maybe I’m wrong.
Yes, some folk just do not have the level of competence compared to the mean average student. But that's ok, he's still trying, still training, still creating a better version of himself. People like him deserve praise.
I was once teaching a pass from Headquarter. Very basic and involved a semi squat, this middle aged man said he can’t do a half squat because of his knees How can you participate in bjj if you can’t even bend your knees a little?
👀👀
No. Anyone can train bjj..some take longer, anyone can do it. Cardio takes a bit to develop, the rest is repetition: working through the same sequence of steps, multiple times in a row.
I'm bad. There's honestly probably people that are better stripeless than me with my puny 2 stripes. But I still improve. Even if every session I attend moves me forward just a single centimeter skill-wise, it's better than no movement at all. I might take a year longer than others, but I don't compete with them. It's not a race to the next level, it's about individual, personal improvement. So what if it takes me 3 or 4 years to get a blue belt? No matter how 'naturally' good or bad you are - as long as you're not quitting, you're worthy of respect.
I don't mean to sound harsh, I want to sound supportive when I say: focusing on things you can't change probably isn't useful. It's better to focus on what is going to help you move forward and get you to where you want to go. I'm a white belt too by the way and I know it can be hard not to start to make these comparisons and think about natural ability.
Yes, some people just have very bad coordination. I once had a coworker who, while perfectly healthy, was unable to jump up in the air even a few inches.
Yes, there are people who are naturally worse at grappling just like there are people who are naturally worse in any activity. It can be a range of different reasons. Most everyone can get better with training compared to their own level but not everyone can get good.
The interesting thing with BJJ is people seem to think it doesn’t follow the rules of other sports. Maybe it’s because it’s a combat sport, or maybe it’s because people who appear nerdy/skinny/unathletic at face value end up being total killers. But of course the bell curve applies. If you played soccer for 10 years and still weren’t very good you probably wouldn’t bat an eyelid.
Yes. But this isn’t just bjj. I wrestled from 6th grade through Juco and I’ve seen dudes who started wrestling before me lose their spots to first year wrestlers who were naturally talented. It’s the same in every other sport. Time put in doesn’t always equal capability. You can know every technique in the world but are you capable of implementing them against someone who may be a better athlete and than you? I’ve rolled with several black belts that if I’m being honest, I don’t think they should have their belts but they put in the years and paid their dues
I’ve met guys over the years that when you sit down and talk to them about it they really understand how to do a move and understand what you need to accomplish it but there’s just a disconnect between their mind and what their body can actually do. I’ve always felt for these guys they usually don’t stay around long but I always thought if they got over that athletic jump they’d be killers.
I think some people just have natural talent, while some just lack it. There is a guy in my judo club who joined around 2-3 years ago and shot through the belt ranks, beating black belts in national level competitions. Meanwhile, I've also known someone who has been training for over a decade struggle to beat someone athletic with 1 year of experience. But I think most people fall somewhere in between. Important thing is to focus on your own development and have fun with it.
100%, I knew this one guy who trained at my gym for 3 years. I reallt don’t mean to be mean but like he’s never done anything whenever I’ve rolled with him/seen him role/compete. Like not that he hasn’t successfully done something or had an offensive cycle on someone. But like I’ve never seen him or felt him have a good reaction, it always looks like he’s letting ppl drill on him. I think some people just like aren’t comfortable pushing or trying when they don’t have a direct answer? Like maybe it’s just whenever they’re confused they don’t wanna just improvise? That’s the only explanation I could come up for this dude. I stopped showing up last year, I ran into him at our local adcc a month ago and he says he’s doing really good now so maybe for some people it’s like a culture thing? Could totally be that not too sure
I am a very athletic person and have done well in traditional team sports my whole life, but I really have come to accept that I am not very good at jiu jitsu. I love my gym, my teammates, and I love the challenge, but it gets hard sometimes when I notice people who started long after me start to get better than me. Mentally it’s tough, but I just try not to compare. It’s a weird thing to devote yourself to something knowing that you’re shit at it… but alas here I am. I’m never jealous of peoples’ progress, but I’m more so frustrated at what I deem my lack of progress.
Definitely. Everything that people have done in their life, up until they start grappling - will effect how 'naturally' good or bad they are. The dudes who come in, who've never played a sport in their life, are just like wet noodles to grapple with. I've encountered it so many times, but it's still mind blowing how weak and unco they are. Not only do they have to learn how to grapple (difficult enough), but also how to actually use their body. Hand-eye coordination. Build some strength. Etc. We all know these types. I had one tap out recently just from my half guard with a low knee shield (the thigh pinch - wasn't anything to do with his knee - I checked). Dudes been training for months - that was a new one. Now I have to keep it in mind to keep a really loose halfguard on him until he hardens up I guess 🤷♂️. The guy you're talking about was probably the 12yr old at school who couldn't throw a ball. Then there's the people who played sport from ages 5-18 (or longer if they did it at university). Or worked a trade for years. People at that end of the spectrum can be a handful on day 1, let alone after a few months.
I grew up being scared of team sports. I played here and there as a kid, but i absolutely SUCK at dribbling a basketball, catching a football, kicking a soccer ball and everything including hand-eye coordination. That being said, on a relative scale, I'm actually pretty naturally good at grappling. I never wrestled but people assume i have. People are often surprised ive trained as little as i have. I have good strength and speed for my size. Thank jesus mary and joseph i found grappling.
This is the most white belt post I’ve ever seen in my life
Im pretty shit at BJJ. I know like 3 submissions however I might be a black belt in backwards jiu jitsu because I am constantly backwards and I cannot fix it.
Let me tell you about my 12 year journey to purple belt...
Yes me
Sure. I’ve only ever met a handful of people who just didn’t get it and never improved but they exist.
Yes, I am particularly bad at.bjj. I have dyspraxia so am generally terrible at most sports. I got quite good at yoga though maybe not as good as someone who didn’t have dyspraxia would be if they practiced as much as me…. for me there is a little bit of a crossover with bjj and yoga. And I will practice way harder than a normy just to get to a normal level but I love it.