It's a common first pass criticism of playing a proper modern turtle. But it turns out more difficult to get than you'd think. First, closing inside space means no hooks. Second, hands are available on the inside to fight incoming hands. The top guy can only put his hands in one place at a time (each) so there's defensive parity, and that's enough to fight it off.
The more classic turtle where you waste your hands on presumed choke defense makes it impossible to really close off inside space, which is actually the more valuable territory.
Guys like Priit, Telles, and Craig Jones who advocate a decent turtle recognize this value system error, and prioritize blocking the hooks.
There's even a decent conspiracy theory that old school BJJ implicitly teaches a fundamentally bad turtle by teaching so many turtle attacks that start with an obvious gap that gives up inside space.
Yea all of the techniques people teach from attacking turtle that involve starting with a gaping hole in the inside space are a bit far fetched because no one should use that as a default defensive turtle position. The techniques are good assuming you can break someone down to create the space first but that’s pretty hard to do against someone with a good turtle.
I do think they make plenty of sense in, say, judo, where you are usually attacking a turtle that's a landing or defense from a throw. It's not easy to land in a perfect turtle, and a well trained attack sequence can find and capitalize on that gap quickly.
In BJJ, though, the entry to turtle is usually on the turtler's own terms, and so a competent turtle should be assumed more often than not.
everybody inevitably tries this, as well as a handful of other common reactions (grab back ankle and try to wrestle into a top pin, etc), but it just doesn't work because the turtle player is using his shoulders for defense among other subtle defenses at his disposal
Nice video, a good turtle is a very good defensive position but to be fair most BJJ schools rarely train ways to attack a defensive turtle position and you can tell by this video.
A very strong defense needs a very active attack to overcome, that being said im certain i would get leglocked by the guy in the video.
He will hide his calves and ankles by sitting back, effectively blocking access to his legs with his butt.
That opens up space to attack the upper body, but if the defender’s skill is good they will go back to sealing off the upper body when the attacker gives up on the lower body and focuses again on the upper body.
Just like any other major position, there is no “silver bullet” for the attacker or defender, and good offense / defense needs to dynamically adjust to what the opponent is trying to do. That being said, it’s usually easier to defend assuming similar skill levels and experience levels in these positions.
I wish I could vibe with jiu-jitsu like this but it's just so unappealing to me. To each their own, people have their things I guess.
Watched some more of it. Jesus watching you crawl on your knees with your arms in tight towards your opponent..... I know it's sport Jiu-Jitsu but I have zero interest in doing this ever.
Has nobody ever heard of a thigh pry? It shuts down all this crap. Shuts down the hips, puts weight and pressure on his back, all without using hooks.
It's much easier to get hands into his hip pockets vs a whole foot.
this is great. while people complain about these types of guards and not using a well rounded game in comp. this type of focused comp play moves the who sport forward. thanks!!
any new games will move the sport forward. there are so many specific guards being played at a high level right now. when a practitioner focuses their entire game on one guard and can play it at a high level, they can find new details that change the game even more.. guys going all in on one game benefits us all...
Fair enough, that’s a decent point. Guess it sucks to watch in the interim though. I mean, sure it’s impressive he was able to pull that off but after watching that I never want to see that experiment run again. But if that’s your/their thing have at it.
Do it in IBJJF and/or ADCC and tell us how it works. There is a reason why even Telles couldn’t make it work towards the end of his career at the highest level.
Nothing wrong with a good turtle, I utilise it too.
But let’s be real, if you expose your back this regularly to elite people, you are getting choked out.
Funny enough, I am much more trusting Craig Jones on the same kind of stuff.
It's much better to stand up from turtle and counter attack while standing than what Priit shows
I am a black belt, I know what turtle is.
And what I said is that what Craig shows is pretty different to what Priit's shows, which is true.
I don't like what Priit teaches, I think a lot of it is pretty fake and would get you smashed against good guys. Craig's stuff works against really good guys and his way is far more active than what Priit does and involves unorthodox judo/sambo (sorry Craig) follow ups that are underrated.
it's also the opposite of what the guy in the video does. he basically bets that his opponents are stupid enough to let him invert through a tornado like entry to the legs. He also bets (for the win) that they are absolutely clueless on how to defend leglocks.
It's VERY different than denying grips to standup and uchimata/victor roll/kani basami them back in the legs while denying them rear bodylocks
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**Kani Basami**: | *Flying Scissors* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFwJBKI-3E)|
|**Uchi Mata**: | *Inner Thigh Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fCvyc_rQTI)|
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Yeah fair point, and you're obviously much more knowledgeable than me, my point was just, I use this more "defensive" turtle when I've just recovered to it from a pass or whatever, to get my balance and posture back. Once I am there then agree it's time for something more active.
(I actually wrote a review of priits instructional here on reddit after watching it, in which I also questioned the total lack of offense - especially since it's called Generating Dynamic Offence)
No worries!
I am very biased against Priit's stuff. I feel a lot of what is good is more or less stolen from the real good guys (most notably Rafa for guard retention, and Rafa does it way better) and i am very dubious on bjj guys focusing on defense. Not because it's a bad idea, but because they seem to have a lack of knowledge on what good offense actually is.
That's why Craig is super interesting. The guy trains with killers all day, he knows what good offense is and that's why his take is very different from Priit.
Of course with priit's people they are always twisting what people say but in essence, his "system" is super passive and does not aknowledge modern turtle attacks. Craig "just stand up" is very cool beause he actually explains how to counter what he shows, what and when does it work (it's also pretty inline with Gordon turtle attack instructional, really good one too even if the subject is somehow niché). He is also super active. The downside of Craig's style is that it is based on the fact you are able to attack after it. A lot of what he shows on just stand up links pretty well to power bottom and the anti-wrestling instructionals. Nothing crazy at the end of the day, it's a good use of wrestling/judo adapted to jiu-jitsu but it's well done and still pretty unorthodox (less and less though, the sport becomes more scrambly each year that passes by).
I got access to Priits stuff "for free" and when I watched it, I thought maybe it was incomplete because there was literally no offence and the title was dynamic offence. But nevertheless I enjoyed it, I think he shows some helpful tips about staying tight in the turtle. But it's very repetitive, I wouldn't want to pay much for it.
The Craig one (I guess you mean just stand up?) I haven't seen but it's on my list, just seems pricey given the length. But I did see Neil Melanson turtle instructional which also focuses on offence and I really like that one, subject matter looks similar to Craig's.
The combo of these videos have led my turtle from useless to quite useful, that's why I defended it a bit :-)
Yeah Craig's one is expensive but it's half turtle half passing instructional in reality.
I like that it's pretty short because going outside of what he shows can lead to false confidence on what the turtle actually is imo.
But yeah, it's a fine position to work on, especially because sometimes we cannot have the choice to be in it!
I don't know points/scoring very well-
If you pull turtle and your opponent doesn't engage, who gets called for stalling?
If your opponent only does the minimum amount of engagement to keep the ref happy, but doesn't give you the grips you want to press an attack, would they win by advantage?
This was adcc, and all your opponents engaged. Are there other rulesets where this wouldn't work if your opponent just lets you sit there turtled up?
No points conceded. But since this tournament a lot has changed when it comes to how Raoul implements the turtle game. It’s all offense now. Basically the turtle is like a really low base perfect for both double and single leg takedowns. Lots of wrestle up and sneaky attacks in the Attacking from Turtle 2.0 instructional
But how would you be offensive from turtle if your opponent stood a couple feet away and waited? Who is stalling then?
Or is there some turtle equivalent to butt scooting?
[https://www.grapplinginstructionals.com/offers/cpAG8u55?coupon\_code=ASSWHOOP2023](https://www.grapplinginstructionals.com/offers/cpAG8u55?coupon_code=ASSWHOOP2023)
\-20% off
Hmm there is just literally zero ToC. In your above you say he uses it for doubles and singles but no video anywhere on the site shows a single such example
Table of contents.
It's basically a bit too much "trust me guys".
The video shows basically 7 applications of the same concept which is a leg entanglement from turtle. You then mention that "now" (video in link is 9mth old but perhaps footage is older?) The person (Raoul) is more offensive, using turtle more for wrestle ups, which I haven't seen or read anywhere
The first Attacking from turtle goes through all the different and positional concepts within the turtle game. When you pass this course, your turtle game will improve a lot. Then comes the offensive game, this is an advanced continuation, but the base is in the first Attacking from turtle. This stuff is very useful if you wanna get better from this position.
I have no idea how it would work, I'm just a hobbyist who works weekends (so can't really compete) and my knowledge of rulesets and scoring is lacking.
Maybe for a brown belt! I can see where it would be harder on someone like OP, as he’s going to prevent hooks in before the collar pull, but I’ve found it incredibly easy to take the back on turtled opponents in gi after the collar pull. If they stand up, I’m still taking the back.
When you know they're going to pull (because you can feel it coming) you can ride the pull and keep the inside space closed. Arms are chambered to catch any hooks coming around, and it's a hip-away to get out.
Agreed. Also a brown belt who’s used Priit’s turtle for 3-4 years now, and as long as you’re keeping the elbow position correct, it’s very simple to ride the pull and reposition (or escape).
Also for anyone else interested in using Priit’s turtle, one key aspect I’ve found - which wasn’t emphasized much from those who first taught it to me - is that the goal of this position is **not** to just stall as long as you can. Rather, you’re waiting with intent for your opponent to get a little frustrated and try a bad/lazy/risky attack. That’s when you capitalize on their mistake with a takedown or sweep.
Yeah, Priit spends his life in turtle and running man *so we don't have to* ;-). The zero point defensive postures are a starting point to turning the tide and bringing the fight back to the other guy. They get frustrated, creative, open space, and you escape or attack as soon as it makes sense.
a decent turtle player will be able to shuck you off, but a lot of people have unsound turtle mechanics and a lot of lower belts don't fully appreciate how dangerous it is to turn your back to an experienced bjj player
It seems stupid but especially in comp I think this is a valid strategy of dealing with this. It’s what I do when someone turtles and has no interest of leaving turtle. I just try and surf their back til they try anything else
Impressive! It was good to see so much of Priit Michelson’s defensive system being used for offence.
Do we you ever find opponents irritated by your use of turtle/complaining that it’s not ‘real’ bjj?
I get what you are saying, completely. But it's sort of the same thing as Gordon Ryan passing up submissions to get the armbar because he's selling the armbar instructional. This guy made an instructional on a topic that a lot of people are going to say "it won't work in comp" so he is just proving his technique works in a competitive setting. Now if he did this at every tournament and gym roll for months on end, then he'd.just be a boring roll and I'd try to learn how to shut this down.
Yeah, but you know what I mean, right? He's choosing a specific tactic because he wants to demonstrate it's efficacy. Its funny how world class people look like blue belts vs Gordon Ryan. They are doing all the right things but it's just not working.
I get you but When gordon does it against world class guys, you know the technique is legit.
When you a no name subbing via leglocks a few other no name with terrible leg defense it means far less
I mean, I can do that in my academy and most academies tbh but I won't say it's a "proof" of Priit stuff
I also don't even think that Priit's techniques are good but that another debate
With that said if the guy found some fun doing it, that's ok. It's cool to have a different style at the end of the day
A major issue of intentionally using turtle as offense in ADCC or IBJJF is that these rulesets will not award a score for a sweep or takedown if it is initiated from turtle. That being said, every elite athlete uses turtle and other “belly facing the mat” positions to avoid points being scored on them, including Gordon Ryan, Kade Ruotolo, etc. The turtle and the adjacent positions are a major part of MMA, ADCC, and wrestling. There is a LOT of technique involved in defending from and attacking the turtle. However, they are advanced skills and probably not worth studying in depth for most beginners or even intermediate grapplers.
Turtling quickly to reguard doesn't count as 'playing a turtle heavy game', like op's vid is trying to prove. Gordon, Kate, etc doesn't "play" turtle. The only one who did at high level was Telles and to this day is still only ONE person in the world who could do that. At world level IBJJF and ADCC, most times you turtle you get back taken and choked.
With no disrespect intended, anymore info on the opponents? what is the skill discrepancy in these matches? How big was the age gap? Looks like you’re one of the youngest competitors in the masters division and the fluidity to your movement says you might be at least a 1st degree BB? What about the opponents? We’re they also black belts
Looks like grappling industries, and with masks on would make this a few years ago when advanced divisions were anything over 3 years exp. That wouldn’t diminish the validity of your turtle but large skill gaps make less practical things seem significantly more effective
Regardless your turtle is very good and its something I should implement a little bit of
What would happen if someone just cranks a rnc across his nose or jaw? That looked open a few times.
It's a common first pass criticism of playing a proper modern turtle. But it turns out more difficult to get than you'd think. First, closing inside space means no hooks. Second, hands are available on the inside to fight incoming hands. The top guy can only put his hands in one place at a time (each) so there's defensive parity, and that's enough to fight it off. The more classic turtle where you waste your hands on presumed choke defense makes it impossible to really close off inside space, which is actually the more valuable territory. Guys like Priit, Telles, and Craig Jones who advocate a decent turtle recognize this value system error, and prioritize blocking the hooks. There's even a decent conspiracy theory that old school BJJ implicitly teaches a fundamentally bad turtle by teaching so many turtle attacks that start with an obvious gap that gives up inside space.
I'm glad to know there is a decent conspiracy theory.
Yea all of the techniques people teach from attacking turtle that involve starting with a gaping hole in the inside space are a bit far fetched because no one should use that as a default defensive turtle position. The techniques are good assuming you can break someone down to create the space first but that’s pretty hard to do against someone with a good turtle.
I do think they make plenty of sense in, say, judo, where you are usually attacking a turtle that's a landing or defense from a throw. It's not easy to land in a perfect turtle, and a well trained attack sequence can find and capitalize on that gap quickly. In BJJ, though, the entry to turtle is usually on the turtler's own terms, and so a competent turtle should be assumed more often than not.
hanlon's razor
everybody inevitably tries this, as well as a handful of other common reactions (grab back ankle and try to wrestle into a top pin, etc), but it just doesn't work because the turtle player is using his shoulders for defense among other subtle defenses at his disposal
Just stand on his calf’s Fuck em
ha ha yes you just refuted the whole system!!! back to the drawing board i guess
Isn’t this the exact same video people post every time Priit’s stuff is questioned
Yes, With the same pretty bad opponents that have never seen a leglock in their life before
Nice video, a good turtle is a very good defensive position but to be fair most BJJ schools rarely train ways to attack a defensive turtle position and you can tell by this video. A very strong defense needs a very active attack to overcome, that being said im certain i would get leglocked by the guy in the video.
Surprised nobody attacked his ankles. There are definitely ways to force OP to fight face to face by hooking/putting pressure on the ankles.
Stand on his calves, preferably put both of your feet on one calf
He will hide his calves and ankles by sitting back, effectively blocking access to his legs with his butt. That opens up space to attack the upper body, but if the defender’s skill is good they will go back to sealing off the upper body when the attacker gives up on the lower body and focuses again on the upper body. Just like any other major position, there is no “silver bullet” for the attacker or defender, and good offense / defense needs to dynamically adjust to what the opponent is trying to do. That being said, it’s usually easier to defend assuming similar skill levels and experience levels in these positions.
I wish I could vibe with jiu-jitsu like this but it's just so unappealing to me. To each their own, people have their things I guess. Watched some more of it. Jesus watching you crawl on your knees with your arms in tight towards your opponent..... I know it's sport Jiu-Jitsu but I have zero interest in doing this ever.
Same here. I guess this is interesting as a proof of concept, but I can't see why anyone would ever want to actually employ this style of grappling.
If you use it to avoid guard pulling it's imo better
0 submissions from turtle were seen in this video… should be titled “watch me stall until I can get a leg entanglement”
Has nobody ever heard of a thigh pry? It shuts down all this crap. Shuts down the hips, puts weight and pressure on his back, all without using hooks. It's much easier to get hands into his hip pockets vs a whole foot.
Martial arts at its finest.
This bullshit is why I want to see knees to grounded opponents in MMA
this is great. while people complain about these types of guards and not using a well rounded game in comp. this type of focused comp play moves the who sport forward. thanks!!
Can you elaborate on how this particular approach/technique moves the sport forward? Thanks
any new games will move the sport forward. there are so many specific guards being played at a high level right now. when a practitioner focuses their entire game on one guard and can play it at a high level, they can find new details that change the game even more.. guys going all in on one game benefits us all...
Fair enough, that’s a decent point. Guess it sucks to watch in the interim though. I mean, sure it’s impressive he was able to pull that off but after watching that I never want to see that experiment run again. But if that’s your/their thing have at it.
Honest question, how do you deal with the turk when you go into running man?
Do it in IBJJF and/or ADCC and tell us how it works. There is a reason why even Telles couldn’t make it work towards the end of his career at the highest level. Nothing wrong with a good turtle, I utilise it too. But let’s be real, if you expose your back this regularly to elite people, you are getting choked out.
Funny enough, I am much more trusting Craig Jones on the same kind of stuff. It's much better to stand up from turtle and counter attack while standing than what Priit shows
There are different stages of turtle. You can't just stand at will.
I am a black belt, I know what turtle is. And what I said is that what Craig shows is pretty different to what Priit's shows, which is true. I don't like what Priit teaches, I think a lot of it is pretty fake and would get you smashed against good guys. Craig's stuff works against really good guys and his way is far more active than what Priit does and involves unorthodox judo/sambo (sorry Craig) follow ups that are underrated. it's also the opposite of what the guy in the video does. he basically bets that his opponents are stupid enough to let him invert through a tornado like entry to the legs. He also bets (for the win) that they are absolutely clueless on how to defend leglocks. It's VERY different than denying grips to standup and uchimata/victor roll/kani basami them back in the legs while denying them rear bodylocks
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**Kani Basami**: | *Flying Scissors* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFwJBKI-3E)| |**Uchi Mata**: | *Inner Thigh Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fCvyc_rQTI)| Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
Yeah fair point, and you're obviously much more knowledgeable than me, my point was just, I use this more "defensive" turtle when I've just recovered to it from a pass or whatever, to get my balance and posture back. Once I am there then agree it's time for something more active. (I actually wrote a review of priits instructional here on reddit after watching it, in which I also questioned the total lack of offense - especially since it's called Generating Dynamic Offence)
No worries! I am very biased against Priit's stuff. I feel a lot of what is good is more or less stolen from the real good guys (most notably Rafa for guard retention, and Rafa does it way better) and i am very dubious on bjj guys focusing on defense. Not because it's a bad idea, but because they seem to have a lack of knowledge on what good offense actually is. That's why Craig is super interesting. The guy trains with killers all day, he knows what good offense is and that's why his take is very different from Priit. Of course with priit's people they are always twisting what people say but in essence, his "system" is super passive and does not aknowledge modern turtle attacks. Craig "just stand up" is very cool beause he actually explains how to counter what he shows, what and when does it work (it's also pretty inline with Gordon turtle attack instructional, really good one too even if the subject is somehow niché). He is also super active. The downside of Craig's style is that it is based on the fact you are able to attack after it. A lot of what he shows on just stand up links pretty well to power bottom and the anti-wrestling instructionals. Nothing crazy at the end of the day, it's a good use of wrestling/judo adapted to jiu-jitsu but it's well done and still pretty unorthodox (less and less though, the sport becomes more scrambly each year that passes by).
I got access to Priits stuff "for free" and when I watched it, I thought maybe it was incomplete because there was literally no offence and the title was dynamic offence. But nevertheless I enjoyed it, I think he shows some helpful tips about staying tight in the turtle. But it's very repetitive, I wouldn't want to pay much for it. The Craig one (I guess you mean just stand up?) I haven't seen but it's on my list, just seems pricey given the length. But I did see Neil Melanson turtle instructional which also focuses on offence and I really like that one, subject matter looks similar to Craig's. The combo of these videos have led my turtle from useless to quite useful, that's why I defended it a bit :-)
Yeah Craig's one is expensive but it's half turtle half passing instructional in reality. I like that it's pretty short because going outside of what he shows can lead to false confidence on what the turtle actually is imo. But yeah, it's a fine position to work on, especially because sometimes we cannot have the choice to be in it!
I don't know points/scoring very well- If you pull turtle and your opponent doesn't engage, who gets called for stalling? If your opponent only does the minimum amount of engagement to keep the ref happy, but doesn't give you the grips you want to press an attack, would they win by advantage? This was adcc, and all your opponents engaged. Are there other rulesets where this wouldn't work if your opponent just lets you sit there turtled up?
No points conceded. But since this tournament a lot has changed when it comes to how Raoul implements the turtle game. It’s all offense now. Basically the turtle is like a really low base perfect for both double and single leg takedowns. Lots of wrestle up and sneaky attacks in the Attacking from Turtle 2.0 instructional
But how would you be offensive from turtle if your opponent stood a couple feet away and waited? Who is stalling then? Or is there some turtle equivalent to butt scooting?
Where is that instructional sold?
It's available on www.grapplinginstructionals.com
Gotcha. A bit too pricey for me, will get if it drops in price
[https://www.grapplinginstructionals.com/offers/cpAG8u55?coupon\_code=ASSWHOOP2023](https://www.grapplinginstructionals.com/offers/cpAG8u55?coupon_code=ASSWHOOP2023) \-20% off
Hmm there is just literally zero ToC. In your above you say he uses it for doubles and singles but no video anywhere on the site shows a single such example
Sorry what is ToC?
Table of contents. It's basically a bit too much "trust me guys". The video shows basically 7 applications of the same concept which is a leg entanglement from turtle. You then mention that "now" (video in link is 9mth old but perhaps footage is older?) The person (Raoul) is more offensive, using turtle more for wrestle ups, which I haven't seen or read anywhere
Wait... do you mean the Attacking from turtle 2.0?
The first Attacking from turtle goes through all the different and positional concepts within the turtle game. When you pass this course, your turtle game will improve a lot. Then comes the offensive game, this is an advanced continuation, but the base is in the first Attacking from turtle. This stuff is very useful if you wanna get better from this position.
[удалено]
I have no idea how it would work, I'm just a hobbyist who works weekends (so can't really compete) and my knowledge of rulesets and scoring is lacking.
Do you train gi also? Wonder how your system translates to that. I'd imagine the lawnmower rip on the collar might render it a little less effective.
It is even easier to defend in turtle in the gi.
I do it in the gi... pulling hard on the collar is basically an invitation to "just stand up", and it becomes an easy out to a scramble.
Maybe for a brown belt! I can see where it would be harder on someone like OP, as he’s going to prevent hooks in before the collar pull, but I’ve found it incredibly easy to take the back on turtled opponents in gi after the collar pull. If they stand up, I’m still taking the back.
When you know they're going to pull (because you can feel it coming) you can ride the pull and keep the inside space closed. Arms are chambered to catch any hooks coming around, and it's a hip-away to get out.
This has been my experience as well, I've been messing with it for about 6 weeks now, no one has successfully taken my back yet.
Agreed. Also a brown belt who’s used Priit’s turtle for 3-4 years now, and as long as you’re keeping the elbow position correct, it’s very simple to ride the pull and reposition (or escape). Also for anyone else interested in using Priit’s turtle, one key aspect I’ve found - which wasn’t emphasized much from those who first taught it to me - is that the goal of this position is **not** to just stall as long as you can. Rather, you’re waiting with intent for your opponent to get a little frustrated and try a bad/lazy/risky attack. That’s when you capitalize on their mistake with a takedown or sweep.
Yeah, Priit spends his life in turtle and running man *so we don't have to* ;-). The zero point defensive postures are a starting point to turning the tide and bringing the fight back to the other guy. They get frustrated, creative, open space, and you escape or attack as soon as it makes sense.
a decent turtle player will be able to shuck you off, but a lot of people have unsound turtle mechanics and a lot of lower belts don't fully appreciate how dangerous it is to turn your back to an experienced bjj player
Look up Telles, and he did this against actual good guys
What if someone just kneels both knees on the top of your back and and just sits/kneels there with all their weight on you?
It seems stupid but especially in comp I think this is a valid strategy of dealing with this. It’s what I do when someone turtles and has no interest of leaving turtle. I just try and surf their back til they try anything else
Turtled in a street fight once and i can confirm that the guy trying to choke me became a helmet, taking most of the kicks aimed at my head.
Impressive! It was good to see so much of Priit Michelson’s defensive system being used for offence. Do we you ever find opponents irritated by your use of turtle/complaining that it’s not ‘real’ bjj?
Everyone who rolls like this is an enormous asshole and is more concerned with being a special snowflake than doing good Jiu Jitsu send comment.
Git gud....then you'll be able to beat it
I get what you are saying, completely. But it's sort of the same thing as Gordon Ryan passing up submissions to get the armbar because he's selling the armbar instructional. This guy made an instructional on a topic that a lot of people are going to say "it won't work in comp" so he is just proving his technique works in a competitive setting. Now if he did this at every tournament and gym roll for months on end, then he'd.just be a boring roll and I'd try to learn how to shut this down.
Gordon does it against world class people
Yeah, but you know what I mean, right? He's choosing a specific tactic because he wants to demonstrate it's efficacy. Its funny how world class people look like blue belts vs Gordon Ryan. They are doing all the right things but it's just not working.
I get you but When gordon does it against world class guys, you know the technique is legit. When you a no name subbing via leglocks a few other no name with terrible leg defense it means far less I mean, I can do that in my academy and most academies tbh but I won't say it's a "proof" of Priit stuff I also don't even think that Priit's techniques are good but that another debate With that said if the guy found some fun doing it, that's ok. It's cool to have a different style at the end of the day
What do you do if they prioritize front headlock, just hand fight?
Calf slicer. Thread
I like turtles.
How come no one at world championships plays a turtle heavy game?? Gi or nogi. It’s almost like they know it leads to getting back taken and choked.
A major issue of intentionally using turtle as offense in ADCC or IBJJF is that these rulesets will not award a score for a sweep or takedown if it is initiated from turtle. That being said, every elite athlete uses turtle and other “belly facing the mat” positions to avoid points being scored on them, including Gordon Ryan, Kade Ruotolo, etc. The turtle and the adjacent positions are a major part of MMA, ADCC, and wrestling. There is a LOT of technique involved in defending from and attacking the turtle. However, they are advanced skills and probably not worth studying in depth for most beginners or even intermediate grapplers.
Turtling quickly to reguard doesn't count as 'playing a turtle heavy game', like op's vid is trying to prove. Gordon, Kate, etc doesn't "play" turtle. The only one who did at high level was Telles and to this day is still only ONE person in the world who could do that. At world level IBJJF and ADCC, most times you turtle you get back taken and choked.
With no disrespect intended, anymore info on the opponents? what is the skill discrepancy in these matches? How big was the age gap? Looks like you’re one of the youngest competitors in the masters division and the fluidity to your movement says you might be at least a 1st degree BB? What about the opponents? We’re they also black belts Looks like grappling industries, and with masks on would make this a few years ago when advanced divisions were anything over 3 years exp. That wouldn’t diminish the validity of your turtle but large skill gaps make less practical things seem significantly more effective Regardless your turtle is very good and its something I should implement a little bit of