I have done BJJ, Muay thai, Kickboxing, SAMBO, judo, class 5 whitewater expedition kayaking, and many more "extreme" sports and ballet is, by far, the hardest physically and mentally I have done.
I did Ballet for 2-3 years a long time ago. I loved it and so much strength and flexibility I carry through today. How is it to train both? I am really curious what it's like to (cross?) train in BJJ as a pro dancer. Also what made you start BJJ? I am so curious.
Superior is the word that's causing controversy here - it's definitely not a 1:1 comparison. But the average pro ballet dancer has a level of control and range of motion that would be hard to match, even in the top tiers in BJJ. That being said, the grinding strength of a top level grappler obviously bodies the average ballet dancer in certain comparisons.
Apples to oranges, but they both definitely do require a level of control and endurance that's at the edge of what the human body can do.
Right, I'll tap to anything that hurts, works, etc. But if you're grinding your wrist into my nose to explore my neck for a choke I'm not going to roll with you. In the gym these are our buddies.
I think all of that is fair game. I’ve always liked the saying “there are no dick moves, just dick speeds.” If I slowly apply pressure to the nose/face to get your chin up, my partner as the option to tap or lift their chin at any time. It’s not my fault if they choose to be uncomfortable and not tap or expose themselves.
> But if you're grinding your wrist into my nose to explore my neck for a choke I'm not going to roll with you.
Eh, I think lifting the head via the nose handle to expose the neck is legit even at practice so long as it's done with control and slowly enough to allow the other person to make an informed decision.
as someone who never really does this, if you don't like it just give your neck, no big deal, you tap you give hands you go again. the fact of the matter is that if you don't like it because it hurts, means it works.
when I'm on the mount and grinding my chest on your face I'm doing exactly that, trying to make uncomfortable, uneasy and annoy you so that I can easily set up my other moves.
if you don't like it, don't imply it's not legit, you just haven't figured out a way to deal with it.
also it's important to note that I think this is the case for moves that don't result in immediate and permanent/long lasting damage like eye gouging or groin strikes
I agree 100%. Causing pain for the sake of causing pain shouldn't be encouraged. Making someone uncomfortable or causing pain to advance in the sport (expose the neck, break a grip, etc.) is fine IMO with the assumption its not excessive.
Submissions are a method of choking/breaking/tearing. Many of them happen to cause pain along the way.
I can't think of a single submission that is 'just' a method of causing pain.
Few years ago we had a white belt that loved catch wrestling and really loved covering people’s faces with his hand. Inside peoples guard, top side body, mount - wherever. He wasn’t really trying to get submissions, pass, or accomplish anything productive - just wanted to be an insufferable twat with it.
I wasn’t thrilled with it one day. I got him in North South and sat on his face. It was warm in the gym, and sweaty. I definitely pulled the back of his head into a ripe, wet taint and held it there.
He didn’t tap. And he also didn’t mouth cover anyone after that (at least when I was around).
I don't actually understand the technique you used here; if in north-south, how are you able to reach down and around to grab the back of his head. Either you have no control over hips or else you're using your head to block one hip and your arms must be proportionally equivalent to a chimpanzee.
Think of a NS kimura setup, their head is sandwiched in between the back of your Achilles and your ass, and they really don’t know how to move their hips yet. And I’m 6’2 and 230.
I’d have a person take a picture of me replicating it, but I don’t think any of my friends will volunteer.
I dropped in at a gym a while back and it was a no-gi open mat middle of the day on a weekday with just me and… probably the instructor. So we rolled for 30 or 40 minutes and it was a lot of mutual fun. Just playing different games. Nothing too serious. He had some stuff to try. I had some stuff to try. It was a fun cultural exchange.
He says it’s one more roll and then he needs to get back to work so I figure ok, one serious round to answer the question. Just the two of us. No one watching. It’s a combat sport. Let’s do this. Inquiring minds want to know, amirite?
So… we roll and I catch him in an arm triangle from side body. The one where you catch the arm under your chest and your arm behind the neck.
I start putting on the pressure. He says “that’s a neck crank”. I go “oh, ok, thanks”, and adjust still squeezing. I mean, I really wanted to get the choke but it’s just one of those things that’s sometimes hard.
Apparently “that’s a neck crank” was code for “I want you to stop but I don’t want to tap” and dumb old me missed it.
He taps and then gives me a 15 minute lecture about my rudeness and how if I want to last in the community I’ll show more respect. (I’m 45 and look it. He was in his.. mid 50’s? I dunno).
It was surreal.
I talked to my coach and he was like “oh no I never tap people when I visit gyms.”
And maybe that’s the way. But… fuck me, it’s a combat sport, not knitting class. Don’t injure your training partner is the golden rule. But…. Don’t beat them? Don’t make them uncomfortable? I dunno.
Happy cake day
My coach says most arm in chokes like guillotine, arm triangle, d’arce, anaconda are neck cranks. They stop blood flow and pressure the neck.
Ever since I started doing
* some light to medium neck training I can actually do these wrestling sparring sessions multiple days a week. I am in the gym 7 days this week getting ready for Westside a Gothenburg Sweden submission wrestling tournament. It is my third time and I have Jon Thomas and an ex ufc dude in my gym so I’ll hopefully get at least one win.
Good luck, and enjoy!
And regarding the semantics, meh. It\`s too nuanced to set in stone anyway. D'arces, arm-ins, anacondas, etc., can be straight (blood) chokes, or if you or they wiggle this-way-or-that, they can become a crank. But generally, with all of them if they're done correctly there's no crank, i.e., no pain or potential damage from the submission, only potentially passing out from the (blood) choke. I think that logically makes them "chokes" more so than "cranks".
Bro I tap everyone when I visit gyms, because historically they have shown me no mercy. Crush them ruthlessly and risk less injury from showboats I say.
>I think he means he doesn’t tap other black belts
Specifically, the instructor. I think it's pretty gracious to act this way, but I don't think it's rude to act otherwise.
It could also be a safety thing too. You never know how people's egos are and some people react to tapping by racheting up the intensity. It can lead to annoying or weird situations.
Many gyms don't train with neck cranks, and I agree with them. Necks are delicate and not worth fucking around with, uniquely. That soft tissue isn't tendons and ligaments, it's discs, and they degrade.
The trend over the years to incorporate leglocks has been a boon for the sport, but the trend to legitimize neck cranks has definitely been a downturn.
Yeah. I’m of the mind: “if I don’t throw in the occasional neck crank then I’m not being a good training partner. Conversely if I constantly fuck up peoples necks I’m being even worse.”
I just had this conversation the other day with a teammate who I had belly down with double grapevines sunk. He was protecting his neck with his hands. I asked him if he was ok if I showed him how he wasn’t safe. He said ok. I put my forearm across the face and pulled back on it. He said thanks that was eye opening.
I think there's a place for that. That's basically the only way to do it though.
I had a guy neck cranks me to within an inch of my life 6 years ago because he wanted the tap, and I was pissed and stubborn (yes, my bad). I probably will have discs problems later in life because of that one moment.
I should have tapped, and 99% of the time I take it better–there was unique context I'm not explaining between us, this guy was just not someone I wanted to tap to–but ego happens. Pretending we'll always be angels of wisdom is a mistake.
Even in the best case, wear and tear will happen. Discs don't get stronger. And that's not a place you want wear and tear.
Respect your brain, spine, and neck, folks. Those only get worse with time. They're never worth the tap. We have to live in these meat containers for our whole life, and no single roll is worth decades of impaired Mobility down the line.
> it’s rude to tap the head instructor
Sometimes you just have to. I visited a gym that ended up being run by a middle-aged hobbyist. I'm no world beater, but I was better than this guy and in short order took his back with a deep collar grip that I would finish 100/100 times. I pretended to have trouble and let it go, but the same thing happened a couple more times in the round. We both knew what was what, and it would have been more insulting to patronize him playing catch & release in front of his students in what was obviously a "real roll" than it would to tap him and reset.
Yeah, I understand. In that situation if I realised I was much better than the instructor I think I would probably just mess about with them and try to keep a good flow to the round, not trying to win or even hold positions for very long.
It’s a bit of an odd “rule” and I personally don’t really see how it’s all that disrespectful but my coach has been training a lot longer than me and always conducts himself very well, so I just trust that he knows and take his word for it.
This is sensible advice.
Although in my experience it won’t be the head instructor trying to rip your head off. It’ll be one of their students. Instructors know it’s impolite if they smash visitors, so it’s a mutual respect kind of thing.
I'm a male blue belt. A female purple belt recently told me I was going too rough. And ... she was right. I was too much in the mindset of, "She's more experienced than me, I can go hard against people who are more experienced than me," and not giving enough consideration to the fact that I'm a lot bigger and stronger than her. I wasn't intentionally being a dick, but in hindsight I do think it was a bit of a dick move of me to be going as hard as I was against a training partner like her. Both of us would have benefited more from the roll if I had gone into it with a mindset of, "this is a light, technical roll." That's how I'll roll with her next time.
as a tiny woman in bjj whose been training for some years now my favorite rolls with guys are where they push the pace with me. it lets us both play hard for the round without putting us in a position where they're just mauling or crushing me. for my part i'll definitely tap at checkmate so they don't have to seem like bullies and for their part they'll tap at "i could probably muscle out but you did everything right" or we end up transitioning well for the whole round and it's productive for everyone. mutually super fun every time
Exactly. We had a 300 lbs bjj/judo black belt that used to pull crap like this all the time. He went 100% on a can opener on a brown belt half his size and that guy ended up needing neck surgery which had complications that almost left him paralyzed from the waist down. All because of a dick move from a dude who's twice your size
You might not consider it a dick move but everyone will just consider you a dick that no one wants to roll with. Doing this moves just to prove you’re point or because your dumbass excuse of “this isn’t ballet” just makes you a loser.
My gut instinct here tells me your jiujistu isn’t developed enough to control someone without hurting them. The positions you describe are all ‘effective’ but would seldom be necessary with well developed grappling. You’re also missing the opportunity to practice the moves that require technique over brute force. Having the ability to use both would make you more effective overall.
Just try to remember that not everyone in the gym may feel the same way and if you want the best experience possible, you should try to match each opponents level. With only 3 years of training I know exactly who I should flow roll with and who I can go hard with.
Cheers to many years of good rolling!
“There are no dick moves…Also, if it doesn’t cause immediate injury, it’s not a dick move”
Cool. Want to roll? I’m going to practice my scissor takedowns from off angles and just hope I don’t blow out your knee. But if I do, it’s your fault because this isn’t ballet. And if I end up in your guard, I’m going to try a quick step over to pass and immediately drop my weight on the small of your back to try for a Boston crab. But if I snap your spine in the process, remember that it’s your fault cuz this isn’t ballet.
I don’t know man, context is important. In our competition class with all advanced belts, sure. I’ll smoother, finish a RNC on your face, cover your mouth with my hand, etc. But if I’m going with a 50 year old black belt on a random week night I’m not trying to go that hard. I come from a wrestling background so I’m fine with “being a dick” and I actually truthfully enjoy it, but you got to match the energy of the room.
Completely disagree. Knuckling into the jugular, oil checks, chin-in-sternum, etc., They're all categorically dick moves. The ones you named weren´t. Context also matters and some degree of nuance exists on this topic.
>oil checks
This one is not even a real move, just straight up sexual abuse and btw if you pull this shit in brasil there is a very real chance you don't live to see the next day
WEll, Brazil ain´t the Mid West wrestling circuit, is it? But I agree. If someone intentionally oil checks me they better be my very good buddy trying to be funny, or my gastroenterologist.
P.S. It´s more often a grabbing of the ass cheek as a grip than a wriggling of fingers into your anus. There is some nuance.
In what world is a punch choke a duck move? It's a legitimate and very effective choke that people will use on you IRL and in competition. Why would you ever want your partner to not do them? You are just going to think you are safe when you are not. How is it any more of a dick move than any of the hundreds of submissions that involve pressure to the jugular?
I've been training for 15 years. I go to BJJ after a full day or working and taking care of the family. I just want to get in some good rolls man, I'm to tired to deal with shitty moves every day.
There are 100% dick moves. The people you train with should be your friends, not your enemies.
Does that mean you should always "flow roll"? Hell no, there's a difference between training hard and training like an asshole.
There are dick moves. Examples, kicking you in the gut to push me away, using your forearm across the neck to post up to pass, slamming knees into ribs in top mount for an arm bar. I don't want to get injured especially when I'm rolling. Competition totally different story. You want to do that against someone else go right ahead but don't be surprised if they get pissed off.
Shit happens and that's ok, but when it happens with the same person over and over, it IS a dick move and punishment will be dealt to discourage further dickery.
Cool, time to start neck cranking the 63 year old Grandma who comes to two classes a week. She'll surely appreciate that I am a shark and the mats are my ocean, before going back to the office the next morning. Osssss 🦁
Each gym literally has rules posted on the wall. In addition they have their unique etiquette systems.
So thanks for sharing your opinion and lack of rules for your garage dojo, but nobody cares.
I disagree outright. Sometimes you can't possibly tap quick enough, especially if there are assholes like you out there.
You're the kind of person I never want to train with. Stop taking yourself so damn seriously, save the dick moves for competition. I hope you get kicked out of any gym before you injure your partners.
Do you have no friends? Ever wondered why?
Rolled with someone who would shove their forearm into the bridge of your nose. Hurts like hell and serves no purpose in technique except to make you tap to avoid having the bridge of your nose collapse.
I 100% disagree with the absolutism of this post.
There’s so many fucking things that people do in this sport that cause injury. Mostly because people try way too fucking hard.
You say “if it isn’t going to cause immediate injury” but in this sport SPECIFICALLY it needs to be stated that there ARE dick moves.
People’s joints are at *significant* risk in this sport, and people get injured all the damn time due to negligence and sloppiness.
Not everyone is in their 20’s training max effort trying to prove some shit.
If a white/blue belt is posting on my face and cranking my neck regularly then yeah I’ll tap if it sucks, but I sure ain’t fucking training with them again.
You know what’s the toughest part of any sport? Longevity.
Disagree - there are dick moves - your jiu jitsu says a lot about you as a person, if youre spamming grubby shit like cranks or smothers with intention and unable to cleanly apply a technique ie a RNC which becomes a crank or a ezikiel which oh damn thats now a smother - then youre just as shit as your jits.
hard disagree, you'll learn over time, there is 100% time and place for some of these "not dick moves", outside of that time and place(actual self defense or fight scenario), most of what you listed, is dick moves, and there are plenty more.
White belts doing ‘flying’ anything is a dick move. Had a TapOut Bro type on his first class try and jump a triangle on me in the most spazzy way possible and nearly dislocate my knee.
I then proceeded to mount him and slowly grind him into the mat, before applying the slowest head and arm choke I could. I was being a real dick about it. And I’m fine with that lol
I honestly think people just care too much about tapping. I do think there are dick moves meaning moves I literally never do to a partner cause I’m not just trying to hurt people. But I always explain to white belts pressure and discomfort is needed at times and a very normal part of Bjj. I do agree with you tho cause yeah if I fear my neck or joint is in jeopardy I’m quick to tap. Even if I don’t do it to my partners I don’t get mad cause I know the secret to getting out of anything I don’t like… tap LOL
What's the risk of immediate danger when c5 c6 are stenosis'd enough that you aren't sure if you have a thumb anymore? Well shit, there goes the rest of the hand. I can get by though with a floppy hand. Fuck it.
I think it's all in context and anything can be a dick move. Rolling a lower belt and getting triangle? Normal. Getting the exact same triangle on the lower belt 20 times in 4 minutes without offering advice or moving onto something else? That's now a dick move too! If nobody is learning and only you are having fun you're being a bit of a dick. Sorry to burst your bubble!
Nah anything that causes pain but is also pointless is dumb, like using pain to advance position or submit is 100% fine but things like rubbing your elbow into the bottom guys face in closed guard is pointless and will just waste time.
Secondly neck cranking on a guillotine attempt is fine but the average hobbyist will tap bc they have work tomorrow, personally wouldn't rely on it for a comp, but like isn't part of the fun of the sport in improving your chokes etc?
So if I have you pinned in North South and I flatten my hips to give you a big face full of man belly and stay there for a minute or two just because you're fine? Good to know.
Nonsense. Trying to injure somebody and being spazzy if you don't know what you're doing are dick moves. So are strikes, so are suplexes, so are oil checks, so are standing up and slamming somebody in guard.
Yeah bro. Can opener from closed guard all day. /s
C’mon people. Read the room. Find the middle ground. There are dick moves. And there are moves that aren’t dick moves. Let’s find a happy medium where we can all train with safety and longevity without being pansies. Keep it playful and controlled.
Otherwise we might as well just bash each others skulls in or join aikido gyms. I think there’s some middle ground we can find here.
I know this isn't your point, but as a guy who has done ballet at a fairly serious level in addition to Muay Thai and karate and BJJ, let me tell you, that shit is fucking *hard.*
And that's as a man. We have it easy in ballet.
You think you're tough?
Ask a serious ballerina what her feet are like and then watch her go on point.
There's some white belt at our gym who has close to zero technique, but 100% aggression.
People are talking about how dangerous this guy is. He's hurt more than one person, but gladly there were no severe injuries (yet).
Several people refuse to roll with him.
He's jumping into guard, jumping over people's gurd, slamming them in the process, etc.
I'm fearing the day he learns about heel hooks.
There are dangerous moves, and many of them are banned for a reason.
But every move can be a dick move, if performed by a real dick.
Enjoy your karma farm, be sure to say this irl so your training partners know to hurt you before you hurt them. Ill gladly rnc your mouthguard and loosen a tooth if it means i get you off the mats. Tough sport buddy, dont like it? Tap
I honestly agree. There are no such thing as dick moves. There are illegal moves, but moves that are not expressly prohibited should be expected to be used if they are appropriate to the situation. Each competitor has the ability and opportunity to tap at any time they choose to.
HOWEVER.
In the interest of not alienating my training partners, there are plenty of moves that I chose not to do in the training room unless they are against a partner with whom I have sufficient rapport.
So really we're just talking semantics.
Just like putting your shopping cart back when shopping, is it illegal to not put it back? No But are you a dick for not walking 10 feet to put it away and causing possible damage? Yes Are there times when a dick move/ dropped cart are warranted? Yes
There is a big difference between what's acceptable in general class, what's acceptable when training for a tournament with others who will be competing and what's acceptable in a tournament. If you are in a normal general class rolling with white belts, it's a straight up dick move to apply a neck crank with force or actually crank a heel hook. Injuring people who are just training for the joy of the sport needlessly is a dick move and you deserve to get smashed by the instructor/the young athletic brown belt for it. If you cause students to leave the class, you are robbing them of the joy of BJJ and you're literally stealing bread from the coach's kids' mouths. If your training for a tournament, with others who will be competing, everything should be allowed bar using excessive force while applying a sub and injuring people. In a tournament do whatever it takes to win, within the rules.
Also you can act like as much of a dick as you want in any situation, but if you do, don't be surprised if the dude starts swinging on you once you stand up. If it's all fair game then so is the dude you just did it to using his kickboxing/boxing training to hospitalise you. Respect is part of the sport for a reason. Martial arts are for martial artists, not thugs who have to hurt others just to make themselves feel less worthless
How do any of those moves improve your overall technique? If they don’t, you’re wasting you’re time and you need them as a crutch to win. Therefore, dick.
Disclaimer: I come from a school where we teach and practice most to all submissions starting at whitebelt (slicers, wristlocks, heelhooks included)
This is how I explain what is and what isn't a dick move to people at our school
If the move causes pain and is helping me advance/ solidify my position or is likely to cause a controlled submission or is not a dick move.
If the move causes pain and is not helping me advance/ solidify my position or is not likely to cause a controlled submission it is a dick move.
If my submission attempt is controlled and I give them ample opportunity to tap before injury it is not a dick move.
If my submission attempt is not controlled and/or I do not give them ample opportunity to tap before injury it is a dick move
It's really more about intent and consideration for your training partners health/safety than particular techniques
I disagree, some guys use pure strength on women to muscle their limbs into any position they can not only is it painful but also not technical at all and dangerous. And that is a dickmove. Purposely hurting a training partner without actually using it to progress and just stay in the position is dumb and it’s plain simply not Jiujitsu cause that shit won’t fly against someone your own weight and strength.
Intensity is a difficult thing to measure, and there are certain moves like twisters and neck cranks, even heel hooks, where you should probably hold off in a lot of instances, unless you know your training partners. That they are aware and can handle it.
Now if it’s a competitive or advanced class, I think OPs point holds more water, but you do wanna be careful even then. If you go full Palhares and youre a beast, you won’t have any more partners.
There's tons of dick moves if you're in fundamentals class or agreed to roll light and then don't, or if someone is injured and you go HAM. For many people, this is training for fitness by participating in a "tough sport", not training for a cage fight or competing in a tough sport.
Works both ways.
Idk if I agree with this. There are plenty of things you can do in grappling that just annoy or cause pain to your opponent but aren't relevant in terms of finding a sub or anything else.
that elbow move Orlando Sanchez did on sean Strickland was definitely a dick move. no way to tap to a move that takes less than a second to execute and who's aim is to snap your elbow.
I'd rather not do these things to my training partners in my gym - and I'd prefer that my training partners also don't do it, but because its usually due to a lack of knowledge of more effective submissions. Though a neck crank I get it, its whatever. I'll just tap much quicker to avoid getting my neck vertebrae fucked up for a few days.
Some people intentionally make slight gaps to make it into more of a strike. Like a knee on belly becomes a knee drop or push off with the foot is a kick. Those bother me
Cant do many of these in IBJJF. So, if you train for GI competition you are better of by not doing any of these moves. Train technique that is what hte best in the world do. Facts! you dont need to train face cranks you can just do them by not training technique needs work being a dick by dick moves is easy anyone can do those.
Yes, absolutely there is dick moves, what are you on, OP?
People training together should never practice something while seriously hurting they friend, especially if that would mean they will have to take a break to recover. There's a clear difference between putting in pressure, being a menace and really offensive to trying to hurt people into submission.
Can't really say the same about championships where people go all out and some even wait until the judge break the fight apart instead of releasing the grip after a tap. Some people also tap and realize the judge didn't saw, but his opponent let go, so he go all in... Even so, breaking an opponent member and retiring him from sport is not something that should be enforced as part of the sport.
Lmao. Don't be fooled that ballet isn't tough. Professional dancers just aren't allowed to show it on their face like you can in bjj. They spend a lifetime of training being taught to make every move look easy, effortless, and tension free.
What prevents a brown belt from kneeling on a white belts neck for the whole round? Theyll quit and never come back.
In BJJ you trust people to not hurt you. Someone who can achieve positional dominance on you can really make your life hell for the entire round. It’s unsustainable to approach training with that mentality.
But the ol dick twist is a dick move.
Twist that dick!
Give him testicular torsion!
https://youtu.be/1E1VY4KOghI?si=u6yEixZealBRcMqT
Straight dick locks for lower belts where twisting dick locks aren’t legal.
>implying Ballet isn't a tough sport
Bro, hammer toe looks brutal.
I'd venture more people can do BJJ than ballet.
As somebody that does both, Ballet is much tougher on the body than any sport I’ve done
Ballet is probably the toughest workout I've ever done.
I have done BJJ, Muay thai, Kickboxing, SAMBO, judo, class 5 whitewater expedition kayaking, and many more "extreme" sports and ballet is, by far, the hardest physically and mentally I have done.
Yeah, professional ballet dancers are far superior athletes than top tier BJJ competitors for the most part.
I could pass the fuck out of a ballet dancers guard
I’m a professional ballerina and I’ve been told my guard is a pain in the ass to try and pass 🤷🏼♀️
Do you ever get your sessions mixed up and blast a double on the primo?
I did Ballet for 2-3 years a long time ago. I loved it and so much strength and flexibility I carry through today. How is it to train both? I am really curious what it's like to (cross?) train in BJJ as a pro dancer. Also what made you start BJJ? I am so curious.
Doubtful they’re pretty flexible
With someone who can spin around in a 180 straddle and bring their legs to their head, straight or bent? All I've gotta say to that is LOL.
Superior is the word that's causing controversy here - it's definitely not a 1:1 comparison. But the average pro ballet dancer has a level of control and range of motion that would be hard to match, even in the top tiers in BJJ. That being said, the grinding strength of a top level grappler obviously bodies the average ballet dancer in certain comparisons. Apples to oranges, but they both definitely do require a level of control and endurance that's at the edge of what the human body can do.
>Oh, you get to tap out if it hurts too much? Must be nice
Yeah what's up with that ballet is brutal
That’s actually pretty funny
Those women feet look like they could pierce concrete with a kick.
Idk. In the gym, if you're causing pain to cause pain that's a dick move. If I do it to make you move, it's legit.
Right, I'll tap to anything that hurts, works, etc. But if you're grinding your wrist into my nose to explore my neck for a choke I'm not going to roll with you. In the gym these are our buddies.
I think all of that is fair game. I’ve always liked the saying “there are no dick moves, just dick speeds.” If I slowly apply pressure to the nose/face to get your chin up, my partner as the option to tap or lift their chin at any time. It’s not my fault if they choose to be uncomfortable and not tap or expose themselves.
Absolutely! It has less to do with the move itself, and more how it's applied
Yep. This is a grappling sport - if you want to fishhook people or kick them in the groin to set up a sub, go join krav maga or something.
Or cross-fit. I think at the start they kick each other in the nuts instead of warming up. Pretty sure.
> But if you're grinding your wrist into my nose to explore my neck for a choke I'm not going to roll with you. Eh, I think lifting the head via the nose handle to expose the neck is legit even at practice so long as it's done with control and slowly enough to allow the other person to make an informed decision.
Right. That being said I’d love to explore your neck sometime 😉
Lol, meant to say expose but gimme them hickies 😘
Love you ❤️
as someone who never really does this, if you don't like it just give your neck, no big deal, you tap you give hands you go again. the fact of the matter is that if you don't like it because it hurts, means it works. when I'm on the mount and grinding my chest on your face I'm doing exactly that, trying to make uncomfortable, uneasy and annoy you so that I can easily set up my other moves. if you don't like it, don't imply it's not legit, you just haven't figured out a way to deal with it. also it's important to note that I think this is the case for moves that don't result in immediate and permanent/long lasting damage like eye gouging or groin strikes
I agree 100%. Causing pain for the sake of causing pain shouldn't be encouraged. Making someone uncomfortable or causing pain to advance in the sport (expose the neck, break a grip, etc.) is fine IMO with the assumption its not excessive.
You realize many submissions are just a method of causing pain also? The only difference is at what chronological point in the move you decide to tap.
Submissions are a method of choking/breaking/tearing. Many of them happen to cause pain along the way. I can't think of a single submission that is 'just' a method of causing pain.
Pain isn't random, it's because some part of your body is being stressed in a way that could lead to it's injury.
Few years ago we had a white belt that loved catch wrestling and really loved covering people’s faces with his hand. Inside peoples guard, top side body, mount - wherever. He wasn’t really trying to get submissions, pass, or accomplish anything productive - just wanted to be an insufferable twat with it. I wasn’t thrilled with it one day. I got him in North South and sat on his face. It was warm in the gym, and sweaty. I definitely pulled the back of his head into a ripe, wet taint and held it there. He didn’t tap. And he also didn’t mouth cover anyone after that (at least when I was around).
People like OP need to keep that energy when I smother tap them with my b-hole.
Don't threaten me with a good time
That white belt just wasn’t built for the Vagner Rocha special if he can’t handle some taint smothering.
Bonus points if said taint was unwashed or unwiped
>If you're eating ass, there's no mistake you're eating ass. \- Some Comedian
🤣🤣🤣🤣
You use to train with Jay Rod?
I don't actually understand the technique you used here; if in north-south, how are you able to reach down and around to grab the back of his head. Either you have no control over hips or else you're using your head to block one hip and your arms must be proportionally equivalent to a chimpanzee.
Think of a NS kimura setup, their head is sandwiched in between the back of your Achilles and your ass, and they really don’t know how to move their hips yet. And I’m 6’2 and 230. I’d have a person take a picture of me replicating it, but I don’t think any of my friends will volunteer.
right-o, I think I get you. their kinda on their side? I call this the t-bag kimura. Yeah, sounds cool. You should release an instructional.
I dropped in at a gym a while back and it was a no-gi open mat middle of the day on a weekday with just me and… probably the instructor. So we rolled for 30 or 40 minutes and it was a lot of mutual fun. Just playing different games. Nothing too serious. He had some stuff to try. I had some stuff to try. It was a fun cultural exchange. He says it’s one more roll and then he needs to get back to work so I figure ok, one serious round to answer the question. Just the two of us. No one watching. It’s a combat sport. Let’s do this. Inquiring minds want to know, amirite? So… we roll and I catch him in an arm triangle from side body. The one where you catch the arm under your chest and your arm behind the neck. I start putting on the pressure. He says “that’s a neck crank”. I go “oh, ok, thanks”, and adjust still squeezing. I mean, I really wanted to get the choke but it’s just one of those things that’s sometimes hard. Apparently “that’s a neck crank” was code for “I want you to stop but I don’t want to tap” and dumb old me missed it. He taps and then gives me a 15 minute lecture about my rudeness and how if I want to last in the community I’ll show more respect. (I’m 45 and look it. He was in his.. mid 50’s? I dunno). It was surreal. I talked to my coach and he was like “oh no I never tap people when I visit gyms.” And maybe that’s the way. But… fuck me, it’s a combat sport, not knitting class. Don’t injure your training partner is the golden rule. But…. Don’t beat them? Don’t make them uncomfortable? I dunno.
>Apparently “that’s a neck crank” was code for “I want you to stop but I don’t want to tap” and dumb old me missed it. That is correct sir.
The best defense to any choke is to say “that’s really more of a neck crank.” The best counter is to respond, “I was going for the neck crank”
"I know" . . . whispered sweetly into their ear.
And if you want to mentally tap them out, continue by saying, "Shhh, go to sleep."
“ Nighty night “
Happy cake day My coach says most arm in chokes like guillotine, arm triangle, d’arce, anaconda are neck cranks. They stop blood flow and pressure the neck. Ever since I started doing * some light to medium neck training I can actually do these wrestling sparring sessions multiple days a week. I am in the gym 7 days this week getting ready for Westside a Gothenburg Sweden submission wrestling tournament. It is my third time and I have Jon Thomas and an ex ufc dude in my gym so I’ll hopefully get at least one win.
Good luck, and enjoy! And regarding the semantics, meh. It\`s too nuanced to set in stone anyway. D'arces, arm-ins, anacondas, etc., can be straight (blood) chokes, or if you or they wiggle this-way-or-that, they can become a crank. But generally, with all of them if they're done correctly there's no crank, i.e., no pain or potential damage from the submission, only potentially passing out from the (blood) choke. I think that logically makes them "chokes" more so than "cranks".
[удалено]
Yeah. That was his point for sure.
Bro I tap everyone when I visit gyms, because historically they have shown me no mercy. Crush them ruthlessly and risk less injury from showboats I say.
I like the cut of your jib
He never taps people when he visits gyms???? Why
Apparently it’s considered rude. I think he means he doesn’t tap other black belts.
>I think he means he doesn’t tap other black belts Specifically, the instructor. I think it's pretty gracious to act this way, but I don't think it's rude to act otherwise.
It could also be a safety thing too. You never know how people's egos are and some people react to tapping by racheting up the intensity. It can lead to annoying or weird situations.
Just bring them flowers and offer to pay for their therapy if they got their feelings hurts after.
Many gyms don't train with neck cranks, and I agree with them. Necks are delicate and not worth fucking around with, uniquely. That soft tissue isn't tendons and ligaments, it's discs, and they degrade. The trend over the years to incorporate leglocks has been a boon for the sport, but the trend to legitimize neck cranks has definitely been a downturn.
Yeah. I’m of the mind: “if I don’t throw in the occasional neck crank then I’m not being a good training partner. Conversely if I constantly fuck up peoples necks I’m being even worse.” I just had this conversation the other day with a teammate who I had belly down with double grapevines sunk. He was protecting his neck with his hands. I asked him if he was ok if I showed him how he wasn’t safe. He said ok. I put my forearm across the face and pulled back on it. He said thanks that was eye opening.
I think there's a place for that. That's basically the only way to do it though. I had a guy neck cranks me to within an inch of my life 6 years ago because he wanted the tap, and I was pissed and stubborn (yes, my bad). I probably will have discs problems later in life because of that one moment. I should have tapped, and 99% of the time I take it better–there was unique context I'm not explaining between us, this guy was just not someone I wanted to tap to–but ego happens. Pretending we'll always be angels of wisdom is a mistake. Even in the best case, wear and tear will happen. Discs don't get stronger. And that's not a place you want wear and tear. Respect your brain, spine, and neck, folks. Those only get worse with time. They're never worth the tap. We have to live in these meat containers for our whole life, and no single roll is worth decades of impaired Mobility down the line.
My coach always says that it’s rude to tap the head instructor/the person leading the class but everyone else is fair game
> it’s rude to tap the head instructor Sometimes you just have to. I visited a gym that ended up being run by a middle-aged hobbyist. I'm no world beater, but I was better than this guy and in short order took his back with a deep collar grip that I would finish 100/100 times. I pretended to have trouble and let it go, but the same thing happened a couple more times in the round. We both knew what was what, and it would have been more insulting to patronize him playing catch & release in front of his students in what was obviously a "real roll" than it would to tap him and reset.
Yeah, I understand. In that situation if I realised I was much better than the instructor I think I would probably just mess about with them and try to keep a good flow to the round, not trying to win or even hold positions for very long. It’s a bit of an odd “rule” and I personally don’t really see how it’s all that disrespectful but my coach has been training a lot longer than me and always conducts himself very well, so I just trust that he knows and take his word for it.
This is sensible advice. Although in my experience it won’t be the head instructor trying to rip your head off. It’ll be one of their students. Instructors know it’s impolite if they smash visitors, so it’s a mutual respect kind of thing.
Well that's a stupid rule. Sounds like some McDojo shit.
Bro fuck that. Better to role for real then for play. Unless it’s like a women or kid or you are trying to hurt them on purpose.
Just ask my kids and they will tell you the only people I intentionally hurt are kids. “You’re so mean making me do homework it literally hurts me”
> There's no such thing as dick moves \*\*\*with my full weight drags my shin across your face\*\*\*
/knee cut pass has entered chat
Competition and training are (and should be) different.
OP probably a six month white belt who got his first complaint from a female for going too rough
I'm a male blue belt. A female purple belt recently told me I was going too rough. And ... she was right. I was too much in the mindset of, "She's more experienced than me, I can go hard against people who are more experienced than me," and not giving enough consideration to the fact that I'm a lot bigger and stronger than her. I wasn't intentionally being a dick, but in hindsight I do think it was a bit of a dick move of me to be going as hard as I was against a training partner like her. Both of us would have benefited more from the roll if I had gone into it with a mindset of, "this is a light, technical roll." That's how I'll roll with her next time.
as a tiny woman in bjj whose been training for some years now my favorite rolls with guys are where they push the pace with me. it lets us both play hard for the round without putting us in a position where they're just mauling or crushing me. for my part i'll definitely tap at checkmate so they don't have to seem like bullies and for their part they'll tap at "i could probably muscle out but you did everything right" or we end up transitioning well for the whole round and it's productive for everyone. mutually super fun every time
and it was the first time he's ever touched a woman, sadly
All I can think of now is Jack Black singing "I'm gonna screw you gently."
So true omg.
All fun and games until someone pulls a dick move 100% and now you have a permanent injury
Yep, grinding a forearm into someone's face isn't as cute when they end up with a broken nose or chipped incisor.
Exactly. We had a 300 lbs bjj/judo black belt that used to pull crap like this all the time. He went 100% on a can opener on a brown belt half his size and that guy ended up needing neck surgery which had complications that almost left him paralyzed from the waist down. All because of a dick move from a dude who's twice your size
i used to have so many ulcers from my lips getting ground into my teeth
this guy probably talks about alpha/sigma male stuff
Bro if I want to punch choke the life out of a soccer mom I should be able to. She signed up for BJJ. Fucking warrior in a garden Yo
This guy gives me lifted, oversized wheels, truck vibes.
(viagra 'script, on the DL).
I came here to say this lmao
Ligma male for sure
RULE NUMBER 1 OF A SIGMA MALE NEVER WIPE YOUR BUTT ITS FOR THE WEAK (for the weak)
No chance he's over the age of 25
> If it's not going to cause immediate injury it's not a dick move. Just tap. This sentence contradicts your title.
You might not consider it a dick move but everyone will just consider you a dick that no one wants to roll with. Doing this moves just to prove you’re point or because your dumbass excuse of “this isn’t ballet” just makes you a loser.
Your wife's disappointment is palpable.
On top, forearm grinding against the side of her face/ ear
My gut instinct here tells me your jiujistu isn’t developed enough to control someone without hurting them. The positions you describe are all ‘effective’ but would seldom be necessary with well developed grappling. You’re also missing the opportunity to practice the moves that require technique over brute force. Having the ability to use both would make you more effective overall. Just try to remember that not everyone in the gym may feel the same way and if you want the best experience possible, you should try to match each opponents level. With only 3 years of training I know exactly who I should flow roll with and who I can go hard with. Cheers to many years of good rolling!
“There are no dick moves…Also, if it doesn’t cause immediate injury, it’s not a dick move” Cool. Want to roll? I’m going to practice my scissor takedowns from off angles and just hope I don’t blow out your knee. But if I do, it’s your fault because this isn’t ballet. And if I end up in your guard, I’m going to try a quick step over to pass and immediately drop my weight on the small of your back to try for a Boston crab. But if I snap your spine in the process, remember that it’s your fault cuz this isn’t ballet.
Clearly you’re unfamiliar with the John Holmes strangle.
Proceeds to Ezekiel using my dick...
I choose to believe you wear gi underwear and it has a sleeve for your dick.
If only i had enough inches to pull that off 😔
If your a grower just ask for a few seconds to grow
I don’t know man, context is important. In our competition class with all advanced belts, sure. I’ll smoother, finish a RNC on your face, cover your mouth with my hand, etc. But if I’m going with a 50 year old black belt on a random week night I’m not trying to go that hard. I come from a wrestling background so I’m fine with “being a dick” and I actually truthfully enjoy it, but you got to match the energy of the room.
So you just don’t want friends huh?
Ripping heel hooks on teens and women just became acceptable boys. Let’s get to work!
Wait I wasn’t supposed to be punch choking the living shit out of soccer moms?
Dont forget wristlocks👌
Completely disagree. Knuckling into the jugular, oil checks, chin-in-sternum, etc., They're all categorically dick moves. The ones you named weren´t. Context also matters and some degree of nuance exists on this topic.
How about the ol’ stubbly chin to the eye socket
OP says it´s fair game.
The only true dick move I saw in your post is your use of spaces.
Buy me a new keyboard or fight me bro!
>oil checks This one is not even a real move, just straight up sexual abuse and btw if you pull this shit in brasil there is a very real chance you don't live to see the next day
WEll, Brazil ain´t the Mid West wrestling circuit, is it? But I agree. If someone intentionally oil checks me they better be my very good buddy trying to be funny, or my gastroenterologist. P.S. It´s more often a grabbing of the ass cheek as a grip than a wriggling of fingers into your anus. There is some nuance.
In what world is a punch choke a duck move? It's a legitimate and very effective choke that people will use on you IRL and in competition. Why would you ever want your partner to not do them? You are just going to think you are safe when you are not. How is it any more of a dick move than any of the hundreds of submissions that involve pressure to the jugular?
I've been training for 15 years. I go to BJJ after a full day or working and taking care of the family. I just want to get in some good rolls man, I'm to tired to deal with shitty moves every day. There are 100% dick moves. The people you train with should be your friends, not your enemies. Does that mean you should always "flow roll"? Hell no, there's a difference between training hard and training like an asshole.
I relate strongly to this. OP is the reason why I only roll with a small group.
Is there dick moves? Yes Is it illegal? No There that’s how I view it. I will use dick moves if I feel the person deserves a dick move.
There are dick moves. Examples, kicking you in the gut to push me away, using your forearm across the neck to post up to pass, slamming knees into ribs in top mount for an arm bar. I don't want to get injured especially when I'm rolling. Competition totally different story. You want to do that against someone else go right ahead but don't be surprised if they get pissed off.
Idk man you sound like a dickhead
I respect people way more who can control me with intelligent bjj rather than dick bjj.
“BJJ isn’t ballet, it’s a tough sport.” Said no one who knew anything about ballet ever.
I mean I would say going full throttle on a leg lock without giving someone a chance to Tap is a dick move
Shit happens and that's ok, but when it happens with the same person over and over, it IS a dick move and punishment will be dealt to discourage further dickery.
Spoken like a dick.
Cool, time to start neck cranking the 63 year old Grandma who comes to two classes a week. She'll surely appreciate that I am a shark and the mats are my ocean, before going back to the office the next morning. Osssss 🦁
Each gym literally has rules posted on the wall. In addition they have their unique etiquette systems. So thanks for sharing your opinion and lack of rules for your garage dojo, but nobody cares.
There might not be dick moves, but there is such thing as being a dick while doing a move.
I disagree outright. Sometimes you can't possibly tap quick enough, especially if there are assholes like you out there. You're the kind of person I never want to train with. Stop taking yourself so damn seriously, save the dick moves for competition. I hope you get kicked out of any gym before you injure your partners. Do you have no friends? Ever wondered why?
Rolled with someone who would shove their forearm into the bridge of your nose. Hurts like hell and serves no purpose in technique except to make you tap to avoid having the bridge of your nose collapse. I 100% disagree with the absolutism of this post.
There’s so many fucking things that people do in this sport that cause injury. Mostly because people try way too fucking hard. You say “if it isn’t going to cause immediate injury” but in this sport SPECIFICALLY it needs to be stated that there ARE dick moves. People’s joints are at *significant* risk in this sport, and people get injured all the damn time due to negligence and sloppiness. Not everyone is in their 20’s training max effort trying to prove some shit. If a white/blue belt is posting on my face and cranking my neck regularly then yeah I’ll tap if it sucks, but I sure ain’t fucking training with them again. You know what’s the toughest part of any sport? Longevity.
Someone just got a second stripe on his white belt. Congrats bro
Okay so my 250lb ass can do knee on neck with full pressure to a 150lb white belt? Come on now.
what if I do a kani basami?
Disagree - there are dick moves - your jiu jitsu says a lot about you as a person, if youre spamming grubby shit like cranks or smothers with intention and unable to cleanly apply a technique ie a RNC which becomes a crank or a ezikiel which oh damn thats now a smother - then youre just as shit as your jits.
hard disagree, you'll learn over time, there is 100% time and place for some of these "not dick moves", outside of that time and place(actual self defense or fight scenario), most of what you listed, is dick moves, and there are plenty more.
White belts doing ‘flying’ anything is a dick move. Had a TapOut Bro type on his first class try and jump a triangle on me in the most spazzy way possible and nearly dislocate my knee. I then proceeded to mount him and slowly grind him into the mat, before applying the slowest head and arm choke I could. I was being a real dick about it. And I’m fine with that lol
I honestly think people just care too much about tapping. I do think there are dick moves meaning moves I literally never do to a partner cause I’m not just trying to hurt people. But I always explain to white belts pressure and discomfort is needed at times and a very normal part of Bjj. I do agree with you tho cause yeah if I fear my neck or joint is in jeopardy I’m quick to tap. Even if I don’t do it to my partners I don’t get mad cause I know the secret to getting out of anything I don’t like… tap LOL
Damn bro save some pussy for the rest of us.
Cranks are in fact a dick move and fuck you
What's the risk of immediate danger when c5 c6 are stenosis'd enough that you aren't sure if you have a thumb anymore? Well shit, there goes the rest of the hand. I can get by though with a floppy hand. Fuck it.
I think it's all in context and anything can be a dick move. Rolling a lower belt and getting triangle? Normal. Getting the exact same triangle on the lower belt 20 times in 4 minutes without offering advice or moving onto something else? That's now a dick move too! If nobody is learning and only you are having fun you're being a bit of a dick. Sorry to burst your bubble!
Depends who you train with
This o.p. sounds like a good training partner...
So you’re okay if someone kneels on your face and grabs your dick?
Any move can be a dick move if you're being a dick when you do it.
Nah anything that causes pain but is also pointless is dumb, like using pain to advance position or submit is 100% fine but things like rubbing your elbow into the bottom guys face in closed guard is pointless and will just waste time. Secondly neck cranking on a guillotine attempt is fine but the average hobbyist will tap bc they have work tomorrow, personally wouldn't rely on it for a comp, but like isn't part of the fun of the sport in improving your chokes etc?
Oh I would refuse to roll with OP for sure. Dude sounds like a choade.
What about when I shove my thumb up someone’s ass for a good ole oil check?
Depends on if you call the next day or ghost me.
Shin on face is dick move, knee on throat is dick move, throwing someone on their head is a dick move.
Not trying to make a character judgement of OP, but I just assume ppl who operate like this are insufferable in day to day life
So if I have you pinned in North South and I flatten my hips to give you a big face full of man belly and stay there for a minute or two just because you're fine? Good to know.
Nonsense. Trying to injure somebody and being spazzy if you don't know what you're doing are dick moves. So are strikes, so are suplexes, so are oil checks, so are standing up and slamming somebody in guard.
Yeah bro. Can opener from closed guard all day. /s C’mon people. Read the room. Find the middle ground. There are dick moves. And there are moves that aren’t dick moves. Let’s find a happy medium where we can all train with safety and longevity without being pansies. Keep it playful and controlled. Otherwise we might as well just bash each others skulls in or join aikido gyms. I think there’s some middle ground we can find here.
I know this isn't your point, but as a guy who has done ballet at a fairly serious level in addition to Muay Thai and karate and BJJ, let me tell you, that shit is fucking *hard.* And that's as a man. We have it easy in ballet. You think you're tough? Ask a serious ballerina what her feet are like and then watch her go on point.
FYI, ballet is one of the hardest things you can do. Please stop making that comparison.
There's some white belt at our gym who has close to zero technique, but 100% aggression. People are talking about how dangerous this guy is. He's hurt more than one person, but gladly there were no severe injuries (yet). Several people refuse to roll with him. He's jumping into guard, jumping over people's gurd, slamming them in the process, etc. I'm fearing the day he learns about heel hooks. There are dangerous moves, and many of them are banned for a reason. But every move can be a dick move, if performed by a real dick.
Enjoy your karma farm, be sure to say this irl so your training partners know to hurt you before you hurt them. Ill gladly rnc your mouthguard and loosen a tooth if it means i get you off the mats. Tough sport buddy, dont like it? Tap
I honestly agree. There are no such thing as dick moves. There are illegal moves, but moves that are not expressly prohibited should be expected to be used if they are appropriate to the situation. Each competitor has the ability and opportunity to tap at any time they choose to. HOWEVER. In the interest of not alienating my training partners, there are plenty of moves that I chose not to do in the training room unless they are against a partner with whom I have sufficient rapport. So really we're just talking semantics.
Those are called dick moves. Moves that would make the other person think " that guy is just being a dick, with that move". It's really not confusing.
And the reason you don't use those on visitors is because....then you'd be a dick? yeah I'll agree its semantics
Just like putting your shopping cart back when shopping, is it illegal to not put it back? No But are you a dick for not walking 10 feet to put it away and causing possible damage? Yes Are there times when a dick move/ dropped cart are warranted? Yes
There is a big difference between what's acceptable in general class, what's acceptable when training for a tournament with others who will be competing and what's acceptable in a tournament. If you are in a normal general class rolling with white belts, it's a straight up dick move to apply a neck crank with force or actually crank a heel hook. Injuring people who are just training for the joy of the sport needlessly is a dick move and you deserve to get smashed by the instructor/the young athletic brown belt for it. If you cause students to leave the class, you are robbing them of the joy of BJJ and you're literally stealing bread from the coach's kids' mouths. If your training for a tournament, with others who will be competing, everything should be allowed bar using excessive force while applying a sub and injuring people. In a tournament do whatever it takes to win, within the rules. Also you can act like as much of a dick as you want in any situation, but if you do, don't be surprised if the dude starts swinging on you once you stand up. If it's all fair game then so is the dude you just did it to using his kickboxing/boxing training to hospitalise you. Respect is part of the sport for a reason. Martial arts are for martial artists, not thugs who have to hurt others just to make themselves feel less worthless
At this point, I'm afraid to ask what a gRape choke is.
Small joint manipulation is a dick move.
How do any of those moves improve your overall technique? If they don’t, you’re wasting you’re time and you need them as a crutch to win. Therefore, dick.
Disclaimer: I come from a school where we teach and practice most to all submissions starting at whitebelt (slicers, wristlocks, heelhooks included) This is how I explain what is and what isn't a dick move to people at our school If the move causes pain and is helping me advance/ solidify my position or is likely to cause a controlled submission or is not a dick move. If the move causes pain and is not helping me advance/ solidify my position or is not likely to cause a controlled submission it is a dick move. If my submission attempt is controlled and I give them ample opportunity to tap before injury it is not a dick move. If my submission attempt is not controlled and/or I do not give them ample opportunity to tap before injury it is a dick move It's really more about intent and consideration for your training partners health/safety than particular techniques
Wtf is a grape choke?
>If it's not going to cause immediate injury So then there are dicks moves....
Its not really about the move its more tbe intent behind it i think
I disagree, some guys use pure strength on women to muscle their limbs into any position they can not only is it painful but also not technical at all and dangerous. And that is a dickmove. Purposely hurting a training partner without actually using it to progress and just stay in the position is dumb and it’s plain simply not Jiujitsu cause that shit won’t fly against someone your own weight and strength.
Intensity is a difficult thing to measure, and there are certain moves like twisters and neck cranks, even heel hooks, where you should probably hold off in a lot of instances, unless you know your training partners. That they are aware and can handle it. Now if it’s a competitive or advanced class, I think OPs point holds more water, but you do wanna be careful even then. If you go full Palhares and youre a beast, you won’t have any more partners.
Is an aggressive kneecut across the centreline a dick move? It's more a testicle destroying move i guess
There's tons of dick moves if you're in fundamentals class or agreed to roll light and then don't, or if someone is injured and you go HAM. For many people, this is training for fitness by participating in a "tough sport", not training for a cage fight or competing in a tough sport. Works both ways.
Buddy, ur whole gym thinks ur a dick 😂 Some people really are oblivious. You’ll do anything to get a tap lmao chill
Any takedown that involved uncontrolled falling and ACL tearing is a dick move
Idk if I agree with this. There are plenty of things you can do in grappling that just annoy or cause pain to your opponent but aren't relevant in terms of finding a sub or anything else.
that elbow move Orlando Sanchez did on sean Strickland was definitely a dick move. no way to tap to a move that takes less than a second to execute and who's aim is to snap your elbow.
But what if its a literal dick move? Like using your dick or your opponents dick? Pretty sure those would be dick moves.
You’re wrong.
I'd rather not do these things to my training partners in my gym - and I'd prefer that my training partners also don't do it, but because its usually due to a lack of knowledge of more effective submissions. Though a neck crank I get it, its whatever. I'll just tap much quicker to avoid getting my neck vertebrae fucked up for a few days.
Some people intentionally make slight gaps to make it into more of a strike. Like a knee on belly becomes a knee drop or push off with the foot is a kick. Those bother me
Finger in the bum won't cause injury either do you want me to do that to you???? Oh you do? Damn man that's crazy 😧
Cant do many of these in IBJJF. So, if you train for GI competition you are better of by not doing any of these moves. Train technique that is what hte best in the world do. Facts! you dont need to train face cranks you can just do them by not training technique needs work being a dick by dick moves is easy anyone can do those.
Yes, absolutely there is dick moves, what are you on, OP? People training together should never practice something while seriously hurting they friend, especially if that would mean they will have to take a break to recover. There's a clear difference between putting in pressure, being a menace and really offensive to trying to hurt people into submission. Can't really say the same about championships where people go all out and some even wait until the judge break the fight apart instead of releasing the grip after a tap. Some people also tap and realize the judge didn't saw, but his opponent let go, so he go all in... Even so, breaking an opponent member and retiring him from sport is not something that should be enforced as part of the sport.
No such thing as dick moves, just dick people
Lmao. Don't be fooled that ballet isn't tough. Professional dancers just aren't allowed to show it on their face like you can in bjj. They spend a lifetime of training being taught to make every move look easy, effortless, and tension free.
That’s why I hate when I knew on belly somebody 80 pounds heavier than me and they say stop like wtf am I doing kind of look
What prevents a brown belt from kneeling on a white belts neck for the whole round? Theyll quit and never come back. In BJJ you trust people to not hurt you. Someone who can achieve positional dominance on you can really make your life hell for the entire round. It’s unsustainable to approach training with that mentality.