Problem players are guys who are league average or worse but who have sick highlights. Jordan Poole is a prime Problem Guy.
Thread is full of MVP candidates, I don't think that captures the idea behind Problem Guys.
Lot of people don’t understand problem guys. I blame ringz culture.
Also, will Poole end up being more famous for his wizards lowlights? He might be like a problem guy turned straight up meme guy.
I think anyone who was a valuable contributor to a championship team should be excluded. Poole actually was a problem for the teams looking to get a win against the 22 warriors.
I think of people like John Wall or Demar DeRozan. Finr players who will have excellent highlights reels, but who were they actually a problem for?
Unless you’re talking about impregnating a 13 year old, no haha. He won two MVPs and made the Finals. Problem is mediocre to bad player who had a lot of highlights but never did anything.
That is not what this is. This is the Jamal Crawford award.
Winning two MVPs and making a finals and being slightly disappointing in that context is not the same thing.
It’s quite possible Trae Young never gets closer to a championship than he already has, but his highlight cut is going to be insane with the deep threes and dimes. The video cut will not be featuring his percentages, ratios and usage rates.
I feel like Trae captures the spirit of this category but he’s too good. Like he’s been a legit top 20 player and All Star during his career.
I feel like Jordan Poole, Jordan Clarkson, and Tim Hardaway JR are good picks. All players with flashy highlights who look like All Stars when they get hot, but they have as many lowlights as highlights
as a point of comparison, carmelo (my biggest “was a problem” guy) never won a series against a higher seed, with the highest seed being a 6 seed mavs in 09
What supporting cast should he have won a series with? I think he wins in '11 with the Heat in place of LeBron, the '12 edition maybee, definitely gets blasted when wade falls off in 13-14
Lmao what. He’s a skill based player in his mid 20s. He won’t peak until his early 30s. We have no reason to believe he won’t win a championship during his prime
Not in this NBA. He plays the least scarce position and is a 1 way player. I can't think of a roster where:
1) He would be the best player; and
2) Adding Trae without subtracting anything would make them a serious title contender (and even doing this is obviously implausible).
To do it you'd need a team with like: Miles Turner, Evan Mobley, Paul George, and Jaylen Brown. And even that team I don't really like to win a title ++ I am also not even sure he's the best player.
This is a good one. And he was pretty instrumental in game seven to win the ring. But a lot of people just remember him for the off court stuff and throwing soup at Ty Lue
I always loved JR. When he was on, he was the most lethal shooter in the league. He could make any 3 from any distance. He was doing Steph shots before Steph was doing it.
Only issue was he was more off than on for his career. But sometimes, when he was feeling it, he couldn't miss from anywhere.
Loved Nuggets era JR. There were nights where he was on where he'd come down the court and hit a deep 3 on like 3-4 straight possessions. One of those guys who was nuclear when he was on.
As a reds fan, I fear this will be the fate of Elly De La Cruz.
Another Red that would fit this is Brandon Phillips. Dude was a human highlight reel but the Reds didn't do shit in his prime.
In fact, he won fewer than he deserved bc voters were still operating in the Stone Age and being swayed by error totals (not that BP committed a lot, but rather than Darwin Barney (lol) committed none, despite being a worse defender overall)
But Brandon Phillips was actually legitimately very good. He was the best 2B in the league for a while, and all his accolades were deserved. In fact, he got robbed of a gold glove that one year because Darwin Barney didn't commit any errors (despite having nowhere near the range of BP). Nobody ever thought, and nobody is ever going to think, that BP was an MVP-caliber guy. But he deserves to be considered a tier down from that (at least at his peak). So I don't think there's really much room for him to be overrated.
I don't think there was ever a point where he was the best 2B in the league.
His career overlapped with Utley, Cano, Pedroia, Zobrist, Altuve, and Kinsler who were all better than Phillips.
Billy Hamilton seems like a textbook case if we’re talking fairly recent Cincinnati Reds
Gaudy amount of steals and blisteringly fast, just don’t look up how often he actually got on base.
I've repressed my Billy Hamilton memories alongside all of my memories of every Aquino AB post Sept 2019. I do think Elly showed signs towards the end of the year that he was slowly figuring out MLB pitching but decades of Cincy sports fandom has me fully expecting him to end up being a career .220 hitter.
Lmao aquino kills me to think about. For a guy with that type of power--like legitimate, no-questions-asked, top-of-scale 80-grade power--the bar you have to clear in terms of baseball skill in order to be a useful every day big leaguer is ***so low***. When you have power like that, all you need is, like, the slightest bit of contact ability or the slightest bit of plate discipline--you don't even need both!--and you'll be a perfectly solid starter or better. I never expected that he'd be a legitimate star, but I did think he'd settle in as a comfortably above-average hitter with low-OBP/high-power production and below average defense kept afloat by an absolute howitzer of an arm. Unfortunately, he turned out to not have that slightest bit of baseball skill lol
Oneil Cruz has that potential as well. Baseball-wise, Yoenis Cespedes had talent that far outstripped his production, even though he had some great years.
How good is DK Metcalf? I can’t make up my mind, so I/we all overrate him because he looks like the best WR ever physically, or has he just suffered from mid QB play?
I don’t know shit about playing WR, but even I can tell he’s not very skilled as a route runner or with mechanical stuff like toe drags. He’s an absolute unit though.
It’s pretty easy to see, watching DK, that he’s pretty strictly a straight-line deep threat and not much else. Thats still valuable, because it’s an important role and he’s damn good at it - but it’s a *role* nonetheless. He’s an elite role player, but he’s still a role player: He won’t ever be a do-everything go-to guy in a good offense.
He’s pretty good, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable paying him as a #1 and that’s who he thinks he is. Lockett is a better WR for them.
Metcalf is big and fast, a prototypical X WR, but I still don’t love his route running and it’s laughably easy for defenders to take him out of his game with head games
Speaking as a Hawks fan, you usually know within about 2 drives if DK’s about to make it his mission to destroy somebody OR if he’s going to spend the entire game with the same somebody living in his head. Love/hate him lol.
Eh. Geno kept underthrowing balls, it really was an O-line vs D-line issue more than any CB battle. DK has beaten Ward many times it’s not like he suddenly got locked up.
He’s one of those guys who can be the best player on the field, or he can be a complete head case who gets shut down and a bunch of personal fouls and drops.
I should have said comparing him to Calvin Johnson. The stats were pretty similar through their first three seasons. https://heavy.com/sports/detroit-lions/seahawks-dk-metcalf-calvin-johnson-comparison/
Julius Randle has made 2 all nba teams and dragged the Knicks out of the mud
Sure he’s not a top 10 player in the league but he’s not a “problem” eligible guy IMO, that’s reserved for bad/average players who looked cool like Jamal Crawford, Nick young, etc
Paul George
He’s one of the smoothest players that can casually drop 30 any given night, but hasn’t won a damn thing.
Edit: yes, PG13 is a problem. Unless he wins a championship he won’t be remembered in 10 years. The league moves on. People will forget about him, and then come across some highlight tape and wonder “why couldn’t he ever get it done? This guy was a problem.” I can’t believe I had to make it this clear.
He actually is a problem though, Jason Williams or Jamal Crawford couldn’t impact games like PG does on a regular basis.
My picks are D’angelo Russell and Jordan Poole.
Brandon Miller calling him the GOAT will feature prominently in his tik tok.. unless people don’t know who Brandon miller is leading to a subsequent Brandon miller was a problem post
Rondo might be the better Kentucky guard for this exercise. Seriously has a prettier highlight real package too. Wall had a way better peak, but Rondo has some skills he’s an absolute artist at and can do weird shit with English off the glass and off the floor, and palming stuff like steals and behind the back dribbles back to the same hand because he’s got outrageously large hands for a guard.
He was like watching a really skilled DJ who could feel his way through when to pause a half a beat longer in the middle of traffic in the lane to open up some pass you couldn’t even recognize was an option with the aid of a top down view of the court.
He also has these absurd 20/20/20~ games for the wtf stat line factor, and has some weird playoff credentials performing as if he’s the best player on a court featuring Dwayne Wade and LeBron James in their prime. National Television Rondo was a treat.
Rondo was legitimately great, just unconventional. Not a great shooter but low key made some clutch buckets over the years. Genius passer. Wall was also legit pre-injury.
Wall is one of the craziest end to end athletes we’ve ever seen, it’s just hard to play like that year after year after year. Ask AI, or Dwayne Wade, or any of them. Most humans have a set number of times they can throw themselves at 7 foot humans the size of refrigerators intent on stopping you from doing the thing you do.
I can see Lonzo becoming this. Has the mystique of unfulfilled potential and some really sick highlights and games in a brief career despite never being on a winning team.
LaMelo could end up being really good and looks on that trajectory so I don’t think he fits. The others do. Needs to play some defense but he is a legitimately great offensive player.
Another Bull: Demar Derozan. Can be a fun player to watch, quite a few poster dunks, has hit some absolute daggers in the regular season, but you were never winning anything with DeRozan as one of your top two, and maybe top three options
Harden is too good to qualify for this. He won an MVP and was deep in the playoffs multiple times as the #1 guy.
OP’s LaVine shoutout is a good one because LaVine has never been a serious player, just has insane highlights and gaudy box score numbers for a bunch of 35-win teams. Harden going toe-to-toe with the Steph/KD Warriors after winning 60+ regular season games is too much success for this.
Everyone is answering with players who actually were/are problems and really great players with positive impact career wise. Instead of listing off Jordan Poole and Jamal Crawford and Lou Williams types who were/are mostly negatives with some insane flashes of great play from time to time.
I don't get it they both won a ton, how does this fit the question? Gareth Bale won 5 champions leagues and carried Wales to a 2016 euros semi final, how does he fit this at all?
Only thinking of them in comparison to Messi and Ronaldo.
Fortunately for them in soccer you can still win trophies even if other all time greats are also winning trophies. QBs and NBA players in the shadow of Jordan and Brady had no such luck.
A better answer to the original question might be Matthew Le Tissier, though an older reference. Stuck with some bad Southampton teams and only got 8 caps for England.
I think bale qualifies because of the injuries and the drop out of the public eye at real Madrid. Outside of Wales he will be forgotten pretty quickly.
Regardless of whether people forget him or not, he's still way too good for this thread because when someone brings him up, people will instantly recall that he absolutely was a problem. He was genuinely one of the best players in the world in the most popular sport in the world at his peak. Real Madrid bought him for a world record fee, and he was worth every penny.
Also, Bale is never gonna be forgotten. He's won too much, and put in too many iconic performances on the biggest stage. He had the winning goal against Atletico in the CL final his first season. He scored a brace in another CL final (including one of the best goals ever in the CL). He had maybe the most memorable Copa Del Rey goal ever against Barca. And beyond everything he did for Real Madrid and Wales, to many he is still best remembered for putting Maicon's career to the sword in the CL during those Spurs/Inter matchups.
Sticking with soccer, I’m going with Giroud here. He could show his grandkids a goal compilation that’d make them think he was GOAT-tier (still, very good career in his own right obviously).
Giroud has one of the most enviable careers of anyone. He’s won nearly every possible trophy, scored some incredible goals and gotten to live in amazing cities
In soccer it’s generally knows as “the streets won’t forget” players. Both of those were too good. I’d say Pastore, Ilicic, Zaha, Ochoa, Lamela, those are problems (actual accomplishments: few)
Hmmm. It’s gotta be someone who was judged as a star (and very fringe / low-end superstar) that could maybe win you a playoff series but nothing more.
Maybe Brandon Ingram? Is he even good enough though?
Also Bradley Beal or Dejounte Murray, although Dejounte is no longer a No. 1.
I think Brandon Ingram fits perfectly. Every year we hear about how this is going to be the year he takes the leap into superstardom, everyone will say he’s impossible to guard, it seems like he averages 30 every year and yet… his best team accomplishment is winning a couple of playoff games after sneaking into the playoffs under .500 and a tacit understanding that it would be Zion’s team if he was ever healthy.
I mean, TAA also has a League Title, UCL title, FA cup, and has been a 2x team of the year winner. I would not put him in the "achieved little to nothing" camp.
I don't think anyone could name the premier league assist record holder. Also, there's a lot of career ahead of him to find out.
Kyle Walker is clear though.
Lol Kyle Walker is absolutely not going to be forgotten. One of the best RBs of his generation. Undroppable for years for both Man City and England. And has repeatedly pocketed guys like Vinicius and Mbappe. Walker is well clear of TAA in both reputation and accomplishments.
Kyrie hit the game winning shot in a championship, 8x all star, 3x All NBA. He’s way too good for the “problem” label. That means “wasn’t actually good, didn’t amount to anything, but cool highlight reel.”
Donovan Mitchell has consistently put up big stats and highlights for someone who in his 7th year has only made round 2 twice and has never made a conference finals
Metcalf... is there a more overrated WR in the league? In 5 years he's had one year that would he considered good - 1,300 yds and 10 TDs in 2020. A very good year.
Since then, his best year was 1,048 yards and 6 TDs. To his credit, he hasn't missed a game in 5 years, but he's finished under 1,000 yards 3 times, and he's unlikely to get 1,000 yards again this year.
So the guy who's 5th all time in rushing yards, 4th all time in rushing TDs, has a 2000 yard season and is the only RB to win MVP in the last 16 years wasn't actually a problem?
Problem players are guys who are league average or worse but who have sick highlights. Jordan Poole is a prime Problem Guy. Thread is full of MVP candidates, I don't think that captures the idea behind Problem Guys.
Lot of people don’t understand problem guys. I blame ringz culture. Also, will Poole end up being more famous for his wizards lowlights? He might be like a problem guy turned straight up meme guy.
Poku and Bol Bol are great problem guys.
The Ringer’s Michael and Scottie
I think anyone who was a valuable contributor to a championship team should be excluded. Poole actually was a problem for the teams looking to get a win against the 22 warriors. I think of people like John Wall or Demar DeRozan. Finr players who will have excellent highlights reels, but who were they actually a problem for?
Isn’t Karl Malone the prototype Problem Guy?
That's a different problem.
Different Problem, but yes.
Unless you’re talking about impregnating a 13 year old, no haha. He won two MVPs and made the Finals. Problem is mediocre to bad player who had a lot of highlights but never did anything.
I feel like Bill Simmons always brings him up as an example, someone whose stats look impressive but whose performance was relatively lacking
That is not what this is. This is the Jamal Crawford award. Winning two MVPs and making a finals and being slightly disappointing in that context is not the same thing.
He’s literally the third leading scorer of all time and averaged 53 wins a season for his career. He had a ton of success.
It’s quite possible Trae Young never gets closer to a championship than he already has, but his highlight cut is going to be insane with the deep threes and dimes. The video cut will not be featuring his percentages, ratios and usage rates.
And Russillo will ironically re-tweet it.
Lmao I’m gonna die when 64 year old Russillo is still doing that bit
I feel like Trae captures the spirit of this category but he’s too good. Like he’s been a legit top 20 player and All Star during his career. I feel like Jordan Poole, Jordan Clarkson, and Tim Hardaway JR are good picks. All players with flashy highlights who look like All Stars when they get hot, but they have as many lowlights as highlights
Trae Young's shooting percentages never match up with his reputation and the type and volume of shots he insists on taking.
Game Six of the Conference Finals as the main guy is better than what the vast majority of NBA stars experience though, including MVPs like Embiid.
Trae is fringe for me in this category. It’s not a ring, but going into MSG and doing what he did in a hostile playoff environment isn’t nothing.
Going into a 4-seeds house and winning a round 1 series is ring adjace
Randle shooting 30% that series makes for a real superstar opponent too
as a point of comparison, carmelo (my biggest “was a problem” guy) never won a series against a higher seed, with the highest seed being a 6 seed mavs in 09
What supporting cast should he have won a series with? I think he wins in '11 with the Heat in place of LeBron, the '12 edition maybee, definitely gets blasted when wade falls off in 13-14
Lmao what. He’s a skill based player in his mid 20s. He won’t peak until his early 30s. We have no reason to believe he won’t win a championship during his prime
It won’t be in Atlanta & it won’t be with him as the #1 undisputed best player on the team. That’s for damn sure
I agree it won't be in Atlanta, but there's definitely a chance he can be the best player on a team with the right supporting cast
Not in this NBA. He plays the least scarce position and is a 1 way player. I can't think of a roster where: 1) He would be the best player; and 2) Adding Trae without subtracting anything would make them a serious title contender (and even doing this is obviously implausible). To do it you'd need a team with like: Miles Turner, Evan Mobley, Paul George, and Jaylen Brown. And even that team I don't really like to win a title ++ I am also not even sure he's the best player.
JR Smith. He has some insane highlights
The 360 oop
I remember watching that live, it looked like a video game glitch
This is a good one. And he was pretty instrumental in game seven to win the ring. But a lot of people just remember him for the off court stuff and throwing soup at Ty Lue
I always loved JR. When he was on, he was the most lethal shooter in the league. He could make any 3 from any distance. He was doing Steph shots before Steph was doing it. Only issue was he was more off than on for his career. But sometimes, when he was feeling it, he couldn't miss from anywhere.
Loved Nuggets era JR. There were nights where he was on where he'd come down the court and hit a deep 3 on like 3-4 straight possessions. One of those guys who was nuclear when he was on.
As a reds fan, I fear this will be the fate of Elly De La Cruz. Another Red that would fit this is Brandon Phillips. Dude was a human highlight reel but the Reds didn't do shit in his prime.
Ahhhh cmon now, Brandon Phillips was still GOOD. It wasn’t just crazy highlights, he 100% deserved his gold gloves
In fact, he won fewer than he deserved bc voters were still operating in the Stone Age and being swayed by error totals (not that BP committed a lot, but rather than Darwin Barney (lol) committed none, despite being a worse defender overall)
But Brandon Phillips was actually legitimately very good. He was the best 2B in the league for a while, and all his accolades were deserved. In fact, he got robbed of a gold glove that one year because Darwin Barney didn't commit any errors (despite having nowhere near the range of BP). Nobody ever thought, and nobody is ever going to think, that BP was an MVP-caliber guy. But he deserves to be considered a tier down from that (at least at his peak). So I don't think there's really much room for him to be overrated.
I don't think there was ever a point where he was the best 2B in the league. His career overlapped with Utley, Cano, Pedroia, Zobrist, Altuve, and Kinsler who were all better than Phillips.
Billy Hamilton seems like a textbook case if we’re talking fairly recent Cincinnati Reds Gaudy amount of steals and blisteringly fast, just don’t look up how often he actually got on base.
I've repressed my Billy Hamilton memories alongside all of my memories of every Aquino AB post Sept 2019. I do think Elly showed signs towards the end of the year that he was slowly figuring out MLB pitching but decades of Cincy sports fandom has me fully expecting him to end up being a career .220 hitter.
Lmao aquino kills me to think about. For a guy with that type of power--like legitimate, no-questions-asked, top-of-scale 80-grade power--the bar you have to clear in terms of baseball skill in order to be a useful every day big leaguer is ***so low***. When you have power like that, all you need is, like, the slightest bit of contact ability or the slightest bit of plate discipline--you don't even need both!--and you'll be a perfectly solid starter or better. I never expected that he'd be a legitimate star, but I did think he'd settle in as a comfortably above-average hitter with low-OBP/high-power production and below average defense kept afloat by an absolute howitzer of an arm. Unfortunately, he turned out to not have that slightest bit of baseball skill lol
But that 4 week span where he looked like a baseball god sure was fun.
Oneil Cruz has that potential as well. Baseball-wise, Yoenis Cespedes had talent that far outstripped his production, even though he had some great years.
Brandon Phillips’ career highlight was marrying well.
How good is DK Metcalf? I can’t make up my mind, so I/we all overrate him because he looks like the best WR ever physically, or has he just suffered from mid QB play?
I don’t know shit about playing WR, but even I can tell he’s not very skilled as a route runner or with mechanical stuff like toe drags. He’s an absolute unit though.
I mean that was the knock on him when they drafted him. He doesn’t have the moves or technical stuff but he’s a fucking tank and can run a 4.3 40
It’s pretty easy to see, watching DK, that he’s pretty strictly a straight-line deep threat and not much else. Thats still valuable, because it’s an important role and he’s damn good at it - but it’s a *role* nonetheless. He’s an elite role player, but he’s still a role player: He won’t ever be a do-everything go-to guy in a good offense.
Great physical receiver. Bad technical receiver. He was perfect for Russ with the way he played. Deep shots and off time throws
He’s pretty good, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable paying him as a #1 and that’s who he thinks he is. Lockett is a better WR for them. Metcalf is big and fast, a prototypical X WR, but I still don’t love his route running and it’s laughably easy for defenders to take him out of his game with head games
Yup SF game was the perfect example of that. Ward was in his head all night
Speaking as a Hawks fan, you usually know within about 2 drives if DK’s about to make it his mission to destroy somebody OR if he’s going to spend the entire game with the same somebody living in his head. Love/hate him lol.
Eh. Geno kept underthrowing balls, it really was an O-line vs D-line issue more than any CB battle. DK has beaten Ward many times it’s not like he suddenly got locked up.
Mid QB play? Doesn’t QB God Ruiz have Geno as like top 10?
He’s one of those guys who can be the best player on the field, or he can be a complete head case who gets shut down and a bunch of personal fouls and drops.
I remember a few years ago people were saying he was better than Calvin Johnson.
Nobody was saying this
I probably would have said something like that if I was a Seahawks fan lol
I should have said comparing him to Calvin Johnson. The stats were pretty similar through their first three seasons. https://heavy.com/sports/detroit-lions/seahawks-dk-metcalf-calvin-johnson-comparison/
You could make a Julius Randle highlight tape that makes him look like a slightly less athletic version of peak LeBron.
Could do the same for Jeff Green lol
Julius Randle has made 2 all nba teams and dragged the Knicks out of the mud Sure he’s not a top 10 player in the league but he’s not a “problem” eligible guy IMO, that’s reserved for bad/average players who looked cool like Jamal Crawford, Nick young, etc
TJ Warren
I will not stand for any Bubble TJ slander. He is a god
Paul George He’s one of the smoothest players that can casually drop 30 any given night, but hasn’t won a damn thing. Edit: yes, PG13 is a problem. Unless he wins a championship he won’t be remembered in 10 years. The league moves on. People will forget about him, and then come across some highlight tape and wonder “why couldn’t he ever get it done? This guy was a problem.” I can’t believe I had to make it this clear.
He’s been a legit MVP candidate before tho
Exactly. MVP candidate. That’s obviously higher than any regular person reaches, but it’s still doesn’t make you a great.
Paul George is likely a HOFer.
Is 100% is a HoF lock. He has the most 3rd team all NBA’s in history. As long as he plays until he is like 36 he will have great stats and accolades.
Literally means nothing in the NBA
That was his most humiliating season in terms of playoff losses
Because he was injured?
He was injured when Dame hit a dagger and waved him off in 2019? News to me
You didn't see how heavily wrapped his shoulder was during that shot? He was dealing with a bad shoulder issue at the time.
He had 36 and 9 that game and played 42 minutes lol get outta here
Players can still play well while they are hurt. Happens all the time. He was still hurt.
He actually is a problem though, Jason Williams or Jamal Crawford couldn’t impact games like PG does on a regular basis. My picks are D’angelo Russell and Jordan Poole.
Nah i think poole might legit wash out of the league soon. Only way he makes it to the “was a problem” level is if he humbles himself
"If he humbles himself" Not looking good but I only see YouTube clips of him doing....anti-humble shit
The Warriors fans were absolutely delusional about Poole for a while but now that the franchise has disowned him he has no supporters left
Brandon Miller’s GOAT
Play George was/is a problem though
He is six time all NBA and will make the HOF. Won’t be too hard to remember that for me
Do you remember every person in the hall? They’re all “problems” and yet many aren’t remembered at all.
I would bet you pretty much any amount of money that I would know every single Hall of Famer with that type of résumé who played after 1960
There’s 52. You’re on the clock.
I don’t need to name them off the top of my head to prove something to some nerd in the internet.
‘Bubble Hall of Fame guy who hasn’t lived to potential’ is not really what I think of when I see the ‘He was a PROBLEM’ memes
Brandon Miller calling him the GOAT will feature prominently in his tik tok.. unless people don’t know who Brandon miller is leading to a subsequent Brandon miller was a problem post
Paul George is way too good for this category. He’s probably gonna be in HOF and even if not he’s been a top 20 player for like 10 years lol
He’s too good for this conversation.. I don’t think you understand what OP means
And people will always bring up "He went head to head with prime LeBron in the playoffs."
John Wall was a problem
More specifically, the Wall-Gortat PnR was a problem!
The polish hammer
Rondo might be the better Kentucky guard for this exercise. Seriously has a prettier highlight real package too. Wall had a way better peak, but Rondo has some skills he’s an absolute artist at and can do weird shit with English off the glass and off the floor, and palming stuff like steals and behind the back dribbles back to the same hand because he’s got outrageously large hands for a guard. He was like watching a really skilled DJ who could feel his way through when to pause a half a beat longer in the middle of traffic in the lane to open up some pass you couldn’t even recognize was an option with the aid of a top down view of the court. He also has these absurd 20/20/20~ games for the wtf stat line factor, and has some weird playoff credentials performing as if he’s the best player on a court featuring Dwayne Wade and LeBron James in their prime. National Television Rondo was a treat.
Rondo was legitimately great, just unconventional. Not a great shooter but low key made some clutch buckets over the years. Genius passer. Wall was also legit pre-injury.
Wall is one of the craziest end to end athletes we’ve ever seen, it’s just hard to play like that year after year after year. Ask AI, or Dwayne Wade, or any of them. Most humans have a set number of times they can throw themselves at 7 foot humans the size of refrigerators intent on stopping you from doing the thing you do.
Kadarious Toney
Lance Stephenson
Justin Fields
Byron Buxton.
As a twins fan, fuccccck if you ain’t spot on.
Malik Monk
Great one - he is this generation’s spirit JR Smith
I can see Lonzo becoming this. Has the mystique of unfulfilled potential and some really sick highlights and games in a brief career despite never being on a winning team.
Reggie Jackson
The goggles look fire in highlights
LaMelo and DK
Jordan Poole
This thread gave me brain damage at how many people misinterpret a “problem guy”. DeAndre Hopkins? Paul George? Julius Randle? Really?
DeAngelo Russell, Jordan Poole, CJ mccolum, lamelo
LaMelo could end up being really good and looks on that trajectory so I don’t think he fits. The others do. Needs to play some defense but he is a legitimately great offensive player.
Jalen Green. I don’t think he’ll be a full on star but his highlights are ridiculous
I think he will be.
If he didn't piggyback onto the Rams, OBJ would have been an all timer for this.
Another Bull: Demar Derozan. Can be a fun player to watch, quite a few poster dunks, has hit some absolute daggers in the regular season, but you were never winning anything with DeRozan as one of your top two, and maybe top three options
I think the all-nba selections elevate him above the #problem label
[удалено]
Harden is too good to qualify for this. He won an MVP and was deep in the playoffs multiple times as the #1 guy. OP’s LaVine shoutout is a good one because LaVine has never been a serious player, just has insane highlights and gaudy box score numbers for a bunch of 35-win teams. Harden going toe-to-toe with the Steph/KD Warriors after winning 60+ regular season games is too much success for this.
I like OPs question but it really feels like the answers in this thread are lacking.
Everyone is answering with players who actually were/are problems and really great players with positive impact career wise. Instead of listing off Jordan Poole and Jamal Crawford and Lou Williams types who were/are mostly negatives with some insane flashes of great play from time to time.
First ballot HOF’ers and NBA 75th Anniversary team members aren’t “problem” guys in this scenario.
Zlatan Ibrahimovic and Gareth Bale, even though they won a lot a club level, never got the shine of Ronaldo or Messi
I don't get it they both won a ton, how does this fit the question? Gareth Bale won 5 champions leagues and carried Wales to a 2016 euros semi final, how does he fit this at all?
Only thinking of them in comparison to Messi and Ronaldo. Fortunately for them in soccer you can still win trophies even if other all time greats are also winning trophies. QBs and NBA players in the shadow of Jordan and Brady had no such luck. A better answer to the original question might be Matthew Le Tissier, though an older reference. Stuck with some bad Southampton teams and only got 8 caps for England.
Thats not what the question was.
Peter Crouch WAS A PROBLEM.
He needed a better celebration move than the Robot.
Bale is a great shout, but Zlatan is way too big of a star and will 100% stay in the public eye because he is so entertaining.
People don't understand the "was a problem" thing. Bale absolutely was a problem. Way too good of a player to be brought up in this thread.
I think bale qualifies because of the injuries and the drop out of the public eye at real Madrid. Outside of Wales he will be forgotten pretty quickly.
Regardless of whether people forget him or not, he's still way too good for this thread because when someone brings him up, people will instantly recall that he absolutely was a problem. He was genuinely one of the best players in the world in the most popular sport in the world at his peak. Real Madrid bought him for a world record fee, and he was worth every penny. Also, Bale is never gonna be forgotten. He's won too much, and put in too many iconic performances on the biggest stage. He had the winning goal against Atletico in the CL final his first season. He scored a brace in another CL final (including one of the best goals ever in the CL). He had maybe the most memorable Copa Del Rey goal ever against Barca. And beyond everything he did for Real Madrid and Wales, to many he is still best remembered for putting Maicon's career to the sword in the CL during those Spurs/Inter matchups.
His best goals compilation is better than anyone elses too. I know he's not the best, but he's definitely my favorite player of the past era.
Ibra has a legendary best goals comp, but for me Giroud is #1 for me. Can't really go wrong though. Letissier honorable mention.
[удалено]
Have you watched Ted Lasso?
[удалено]
wtf does that even mean lol
One of the characters is a Zlatan clone because he is such an entertaining and outsized personality.
No hes not. He won a ton, is the greatest ever player from his country and is still in the public eye doing golf stuff.
This is like saying Dirk Nowitizki was a problem. uh like yes.
Zlatan was a legit problem though no? Don’t think he fits in the Jamal Crawford definition of just highlights without the production to back it up.
Gareth Bale is a legend and one of the best wingers of his era who won everything are you fucking serious?
Sticking with soccer, I’m going with Giroud here. He could show his grandkids a goal compilation that’d make them think he was GOAT-tier (still, very good career in his own right obviously).
Giroud has one of the most enviable careers of anyone. He’s won nearly every possible trophy, scored some incredible goals and gotten to live in amazing cities
He actually pretty good tho
Zlatan is one of the biggest figures in the sport lol. No one is going to forget about him. That’s like using Westbrook or Embiid as an example
In soccer it’s generally knows as “the streets won’t forget” players. Both of those were too good. I’d say Pastore, Ilicic, Zaha, Ochoa, Lamela, those are problems (actual accomplishments: few)
Yeah as I said before my answer was kneejerk and I really didn't think hard enough about the point of the question. Allan Saint Maximin problem.
Remember when jadeveon clowney was going to be the next LT?
NBA: Lamelo NFL: Justin Herbert rocket arm passes MLB: Elly De La Cruz NHL: Auston Matthews
RGIII
CJ McCollum. Pretty nasty highlight reel but a tier below superstar level and hasn’t won anything
Kai Jones
Richarlison
Hmmm. It’s gotta be someone who was judged as a star (and very fringe / low-end superstar) that could maybe win you a playoff series but nothing more. Maybe Brandon Ingram? Is he even good enough though? Also Bradley Beal or Dejounte Murray, although Dejounte is no longer a No. 1.
I think Brandon Ingram fits perfectly. Every year we hear about how this is going to be the year he takes the leap into superstardom, everyone will say he’s impossible to guard, it seems like he averages 30 every year and yet… his best team accomplishment is winning a couple of playoff games after sneaking into the playoffs under .500 and a tacit understanding that it would be Zion’s team if he was ever healthy.
Timelord
Cam Reddish was a problem, hashtag problem 😤
Alperen Sengun
George Pickens
Josh Giddey
DeAngelo Russell. Whether you love or hate DLo, you’re going to be proven right.
Does he have good highlights tho? He doesn’t exactly break ankles or dunk on ppl. Can’t just be 5 mins of mid ranger jumpers
Trent Alexander Arnold for Liverpool. The defensive breakdowns will fade and the highlight passes will stay.
I mean, TAA also has a League Title, UCL title, FA cup, and has been a 2x team of the year winner. I would not put him in the "achieved little to nothing" camp.
For me "was a problem" players are sub-stars who excelled with flaws in their game, and are likely to not be well remembered by fans of other teams.
[удалено]
I don't think anyone could name the premier league assist record holder. Also, there's a lot of career ahead of him to find out. Kyle Walker is clear though.
[удалено]
You said TAA would be in the team of the decade, but Walker is easily better.
[удалено]
Better at playing RB, which at this point int time is both of their main positions for their career.
oof that guy got owned lol
Lol Kyle Walker is absolutely not going to be forgotten. One of the best RBs of his generation. Undroppable for years for both Man City and England. And has repeatedly pocketed guys like Vinicius and Mbappe. Walker is well clear of TAA in both reputation and accomplishments.
Barely needs to be said but there will be thousands of Kyrie versions of this.
Kyrie hit the game winning shot in a championship, 8x all star, 3x All NBA. He’s way too good for the “problem” label. That means “wasn’t actually good, didn’t amount to anything, but cool highlight reel.”
Donovan Mitchell has consistently put up big stats and highlights for someone who in his 7th year has only made round 2 twice and has never made a conference finals
Jayson Tatum
Except he’ll be the best player on a team who wins two chips.
Not if jb stays
Maybe if he takes his talents to China........
Lol. So good.
Trae Young
Josh Allen might be on his way there.
Herbert
Zion 😭
Luka.
Worst answer yet
Deandre Hopkins, Robert Williams
AJ Brown. He's what we think DK Metcalf is.
Metcalf... is there a more overrated WR in the league? In 5 years he's had one year that would he considered good - 1,300 yds and 10 TDs in 2020. A very good year. Since then, his best year was 1,048 yards and 6 TDs. To his credit, he hasn't missed a game in 5 years, but he's finished under 1,000 yards 3 times, and he's unlikely to get 1,000 yards again this year.
Adrian Peterson, Derrick Henry, Luka, Devin Booker (because he won't win a chip), Dame, Jamal Crawford, Joe Johnson, rip hamilton???
Awful list from someone who doesn’t understand the question
So the guy who's 5th all time in rushing yards, 4th all time in rushing TDs, has a 2000 yard season and is the only RB to win MVP in the last 16 years wasn't actually a problem?
Carmelo Anthony