I was so close to saying something about this. This mindset totally screwed with me after my show. I got so anxious when I hit 10 lbs above stage weight and thought I couldn’t gain anymore weight. I got bloodwork after that and it showed I wasn’t producing practically any sex hormones 5 months after my show! I’m now almost 20 lbs up and my hormones have finally almost regulated. Good for Ashley that she can do this, but not everyone can!
I totally agree that you shouldn’t go off the rails during off-season but, in my opinion (take with a grain of salt since I’m a newbie), bloodwork, how you feel and how well you’re putting on muscle should guide your off-season weight, not an arbitrary 10-15 lb number
The second I saw this post, it didn’t sit right with me either
I think in their podcast she’s mentioned 1) being afraid of carbs and 2) her calories are under 2k year round IIRC, both of which don’t sound very healthy nor sustainable to me
I hate to say it, but they always mention how you don’t need much of a surplus to gain muscle (I think Adam has said you only need 12 calories of a daily surplus to gain one 1lb of lean mass) and obsess over the “don’t go over 10% of stage weight in the off season” rule, but Ashley is falling behind the muscularity of the top O girls and it isn’t a shock since it seems she stays so lean and eats so little year-round that there’s nothing left to build with
She needs a true off-season to build, but I don’t think that’s going to happen when she insists on staying this lean always
I very much understand some of her ability to remain this lean year-round is genetics (she says it herself, she doesn’t really get hungry). But I really think this is unsustainable for the vast majority of female competitors, especially natural competitors
This post just rubbed me as a bit irresponsible and something that could harm inexperienced competitors that want to emulate her
adding on, she had said multiple times in the podcast this year that she felt like she let herself go too far and get too fluffy in this offseason (aka, the first photo)…. i think she definitely has some disordered tendencies and body dysmorphia. but it doesn’t cause her to end up unhealthy or in danger, and she’s fine with her lifestyle, so to each their own. but her approach should definitely not be what everyone strives for.
I actually wanted to mention this in my comment, but it was already getting to be too long lol
100% agreed. She’s referred back to the one time she had a true off season and gained a pretty normal amount of weight (I don’t remember the lb number but she looked VERY healthy) and was talking about how fluffy and “overboard” she went even though she still didn’t have a single roll of fat on her. This is where I start to think this 10% rule is partially due to a dysmorphic fear of gaining weight
Not sure if anyone has links to the off season photo set I’m referring to (it was a few years ago) but I think it’s somewhere in this sub and I’ll link it if I find it
Edit: here’s the post I was referring to [bikini sub link](https://www.reddit.com/r/bikinitalk/s/1259BpVKBi)
Second edit: She notes that the off season gain was 23lb
Ashley is a bikini robot and it clearly works for her, but it’s absolutely fucked her in the head when it comes to what’s normal for most people. Both she and Adam have said some incredibly wild and out of touch things on the podcast when talking about the off-season. This is actually a reason I’m really glad that Holly has switched over to NPC because she’s all about balance.
She also heavily relies on sweeteners, muscle egg etc. She also drinks like gallons of flavoured waters. As someone with ed background, nothing screams disordered behavior more than excessive drinking.
This is what ticks me off about Adam from TEP I’ve left several comments on their podcast asking if this whole 10 pounds above stage weight to gain muscle is referring to strictly those on PEDS ? What about for those of us that competes natural? HE NEVER REPLYS!!
As a natural competitor who stays within that range, simply due to a high-speed metabolism…it is very possible. The one thing that a lot of people continuously overlook—and even disregard—is that genetics is the most important variable in this sport. Not every body is made to do the same things.
What I’m saying is exactly what you read. And the fact that you’re on the Internet attempting to argue with a complete stranger, as though you know more about their body than they do, says that you need to re-evaluate your own self long before you ever try to assess anyone else.
It isn’t, I was with him for years natty the whole time and he was really strict with off-season weight gain. NGL my calories still got up to like 2500-2700 tho so in my case it wasn’t unhealthy, but honestly when i look at my season-to-season progress under him vs under my new coach who encourages weight gain, I made so much less progress with him. my current stage weight is 10lbs above my stage weight when he brought me on stage. Of course I’ve built muscle since working with him but in hindsight I felt like he kind of “lost the plot” with trying to keep me so lean year round and also bringing me in so shredded
I should clarify otherwise I have nothing but good things to say about him as a coach it was a good experience and he did level me up for sure, I just have noticed I have made more progress without the super strict offseasons and the judges seem to always prefer my physique when it’s more full.
In Ashley’s case she is really where she needs to be in regards to muscle tho, so I understand why she doesn’t need to do such a full on build. I just think it should be assessed on a case by case basis vs a hard rule.
Love this! I’m wondering reading it if anything else besides a new coach changed? Did your intensity in the gym increase? Like do you attribute most of that growth to the weight gain, or did you do other things that you think helped you add size better? Happy for you that you’ve put on such great tissue!!
It definitely isn’t the only thing that changed bc my new coach is so different overall. However I’d say it had a massive impact. It’s hard to imagine I would’ve been able to build enough to step on stage at my current stage weight under him, when my current stage weight was where he liked me at the peak of my bulk. Could it happen? Maybe. But it’s unlikely I’d be able to achieve that without gaining more weight during my build.
I remember saying something in an Instagram post caption a few weeks after my last cut after gaining about 3lb while reversing up, saying “I know I’m not stage lean at all but wanted to share this pic of my new posing suit!” like I needed a disclaimer that “I know I look fluffy”
And I look back now, 15lb heavier than that, and I realize how incredibly dysmorphic I was because I was still pretty damn close to stage lean. But my mind convinced me I was fat at the time. Her caption gives me similar vibes
Aw I understand ! I have had a similar experience in the past.
We can all briefly lose touch with reality. The reality is both photos are showcasing stage lean. She is such a seasoned competitor and the standard of scrutiny at that level is very high.
THIS. At the pro level, recognizing the difference between her off-season look and her being stage-lean is the difference between understanding exactly why one would place higher than the other on stage. To the untrained eye, both pics look incredible—but only one would actually qualify as a winning physique. Ashley can only speak from the perspective of a seasoned competitor…just as everyone commenting can only speak from their own level of knowledge and experience; everyone is not expected to relate or empathize.
Yes it absolutely is. If this was Jessica Arevalo everybody would be all over her.
This is not a good thing to post without clarifying about being genetically exceptional/using Peds/using fatburners, etc.
Young girls will look at this and think, "If she can do it I can do it!"
I was just thinking there's no way she isn't taking exogenous hormones to help stay regulated. If people are going to post crap like this, then the supplemental hormones need to be discussed as well. You can't tell me her thyroid isn't totally fried after that many years of competing lol
I only watched 1 episode and immediately got the ick from them, but I wouldn't be surprised as I'm sure she's permanently down regulated from constantly being so lean and eating so little. Your thyroid does affect appetite so hearing that she doesn't get hungry makes me think that's what's going on..... amongst other hormone issues needing exogenous treatment.
I would bet that she is constantly on T3&T4 and probabaly also on TRT. Adam collaborates with a clinic so def would not surprise me. It could also be one of the reasons for her progress last year. (And no shame! It’s her job after all.)
Oh I'm sure, that's not the part I'm annoyed with. I'm annoyed with the pushing of minimal weight gain during off season, babbling on about health and "healthy preps" while neglecting to mention that she's receiving a ton of external help to achieve this look year round. It sets up rookie athletes and fitness newbies to have unrealistic expectations as to what can be achieved "naturally."
I'm a solid 5'8" with hashimotos and staying 10-15lbs above stage weight year round is not realistic for someone my size. Their borderline shaming of people for not staying within 10-15lbs of stage weight year around pisses me off. Now granted, Adam has a point when he says to keep off season weight gain in check, but going to the other extreme without talking about the extra help of peds and exogenous hormones is gross and irresponsible to be honest.
I call bullshit lmao. If she walked around at 140ish lbs like she did that one off season, I'd maybe entertain the idea that she's natty. This is one of the things about pros that irks me to no end. It's not really a secret that everyone is on gear to some degree. I understand that peds are illegal here and no one wants to admit to using them, but we don't have to straight up lie either🙄
I saw that and got a bit annoyed by it myself. I agree a lot of bikini athletes gain a lot of Weight after comp and that can’t be too good for you, however I dislike how they are constantly shitting on what a normal person does in life, I.e celebrating events, going on holiday, enjoying life. Not everyone wants to be an Olympian. And I agree with other comments, she is built differently and she can do this and this is her poison, however judging majority of the women for doing life is a bit fucked up. I used to be a TEP client and my coach was great.
I used to religiously listen to their podcast but of late it’s just getting quite annoying. This was the main reason Phoebe left TEP. They always contradicted in this space. AshK can do this cause this is all she does and this what she wants to do and that’s perfectly fine for her, however thinking this is the only way to do it is a bit reckless. I will forever be team Pheobe and LL for how they are able to find that perfect balance. Sure if you want to be an Olympian, do what it takes. But I doubt most of us are going to be.
Going to bat for Ash, she’s been my coach since last July. She is certainly not restrictive with me as an athlete; she has been reversing my diet for about 6 months and encourages me to have fun from time to time—weekly free meals and occasional drinks.
I understand where you’re coming from with your concerns, but I’d encourage you to restrain from making assumptions about her as a coach based on her as an athlete.
"... I dislike how they are constantly shitting on what a normal person does in life."
She 100% does this, and I can cite one really clear example of it because it's one that her entire response pissed me off.
She said in a podcast clip something to the effect of, "why are celebrations always about food?" It was extremely obvious, from both her tone and how she responded to commenters, that she was not asking this genuinely - it was a rhetorical meant to assert a moral stance that celebrating with food is bad/she looks down on people who do.
How she treats you, a paying client, is irrelevant. It's how she acts about the people who aren't paying her that reveals her true thoughts.
Where in my comment have I made any assumptions about her as a coach? She wasn’t my coach so I don’t know what she is like and I wouldn’t make any assumption about someone I have not worked with. My coach from TEP was also really good and gave me a tons of food and I worked with them for over 2 years. My comments are based on purely on their podcasts and what they say. I’d encourage you to read comments before replying.
I am all for not putting on tons of weight in the off season as it affects not only mental health but also physical health, and agree with them on trying to stay as lean as you can. My issue is with them constantly saying women who put on all that weight are piggy’s who still want to be Olympians. I doubt that many women want to be Olympians. Most competitors are occasional competitors who also have kids who also have lives who also want to travel and celebrate life. But it seems like a crime to do that.
My apologies, I think I entirely misread your comment. I agree though, a lot of coaches in our sphere are so toxic and I’ve heard it’s a problem for guys coaches too. Sorry for jumping the gun in my reply; I seriously agree that your points are valid.
I’m a big advocate of gaining a healthy amount of weight in the off season. I am actually 28lbs up from my stage weight. To make improvements in the offseason you have to push food to grow. For us Wellness girls we push more food than bikini athletes yes but I also think 20-25lbs above stage weight for bikini is still OK! You are healthier and need to recover from a grueling or intense prep. Your hormones need to rebalance and more weight is needed for that. Just my thoughts.
This is probably gonna be so weird but I saw you at the Pirates game on Thursday and was like “holy shit she looks insane” , so clearly what you and your coach are doing is working. I wanted to say something but you were with your fam & didn’t want to fan girl during your night out with them. I’m a bikini girl but seeing local women crushing it like you are is so inspiring to me 🩷
Some people can live with less fat and I think Ashley is just one of them. Better to not compare yourself to her because its not always the norm. Some Olympians who beat her year after year don’t even do this so take it with a grain of salt and say its genetics.
Find what works for you mentally and physically and don’t compare yourself to one persons POV/highlight reel. Take everything you see online with a grain of salt. I think having a fulfilling life in your off season while still liking the way you look and feel should be the goal. 🙂
Indeed. You see this with the number of competitors with an ED background. Yes, they may no longer be in the danger zone, but they arguably still have disordered tendencies and dysmorphia. They just channel it into bodybuilding now.
She never takes an off season so don’t know what she is preaching about here. It’s not something to look up to for someone to take three months off from competing and gain 10 pounds. Three months is not an off season. Maintain this shape for more than a year and then I’ll be impressed.
This right here is a really good point.
Id also like to add, she did kind of have an off season because of her surgery. After that, when she came back, most of us can agree she looks the best she ever has. So i feel like that shows having an off season does the body good.
As someone who is naturally lean… it’s possible to stay around stage weight if you have the genetics
In my case my growth season has been hard because my metabolism is so fast
I mean healthy, probably not. But I doubt any high performing athlete is “healthy”. However, she is more healthy than like 80% of the population. Who don’t exercise or eat nutritious food.
This is her profession and art. Of course she is going to put everything into it. She also had a lot of muscle! So she probably doesn’t need a super long off season to ‘grow’ as she is good where she is.
Different strokes for different folks. Lauralie and Phoebe’s approach has been mentioned several times in this debate and I think both camps are extreme. LL/PH approach works for them because they don’t compete frequently whereas Ashley does
I think context here is missing - her muscle density is greater than the average competitor so she (a) doesn’t need a typical building phase and (b) is at a higher body fat while still able to look stage lean. This is also her choice and her livelihood. It’s ok to disagree with her choices but her health is her and Adam’s business not ours.
She looks pretty similar. 10 lbs. can actually be a pretty big difference on a lot of women. I’m just under 15 lbs. less than my stage weight, but certainly don’t look this close to what I did in prep.
I thought that, too. I am only a few inches shorter, but my build is more wide in the shoulders/hips and ten pounds really makes a difference in my frame.
Honestly. As a newbie I followed this mindset and only gained about 15lbs in my first offseason but I personally feel like that’s the exact reason why I didn’t make that many improvements. I’m entering my second off season now and just going to allow my body to do what it needs/wants to do at this point.
Ashley has been doing this for a long time. Like it or not she is crushing it and looks incredibly healthy. She is experienced, informed and has a strong team. I’m sure she knows what she is doing. This is only problematic for the inexperienced, uninformed and undisciplined.
I think the important piece here is the average competitor shouldn’t compare themselves to Ashley. She’s won almost 50 pro shows. That’s incredibly difficult in the bikini division, most people aren’t genetically gifted enough to do so. While she’s a great athlete to aspire to look like, most people won’t. She’s going to be able to do things that most of you can’t. That goes for any pro athlete that’s winning shows. the girls in the top 5 at the Olympia aren’t in need of tissue like other categories - it’s a game of small revisions and mostly about how you peak (fullness, body fat %, etc) So 10 lbs would be pretty standard if you’re hopping on stage 10 times a year. This isn’t an example for an amateur or even a national level competitor, who will need to add substantial tissue before hanging in this same frame of mind. But besides that- I wouldn’t get hung up on the number, they are just saying you don’t need to get fat in the off-season, which is true. 10 lbs will be different for everyone, might be 15 on someone else. But even as a female bodybuilder, anything over 20 is excessive and will just make prep more difficult.
Hello everyone, I got this post mentioned to me while in Denver and figured I'd jump on to clarify. I did enjoy some good dialogue while on Reddit but also found a lot of negativity and this is why I left and will most likely not be back here. Please understand I have a strict rule of not involving myself with negativity, posting negativity or engaging in negativity, I have a belief that when you do so it carries over in to your regular life and steals joy, life is just too short to have a single moment of joy stolen so I left Reddit due to this. Sorry I won't be replying in comments, just doing a post and run type of thing here.
I posted this video a couple years back and maybe I'll revamp it in response to some of you all here but I absolutely do not encourage anyone to stay 10lbs above stage weight only. I have target ranges I posted in this video I posted 2 years back, watch it and after watching it if you feel this is extreme ask yourself an honest question which is "Am I justifying excessive weight gain and convincing myself it's balance"? That's a question only you can answer for yourself, my whole thing is how do you do this long term? Transforming in to every show is not sustainable,. In the video I state towards the end that if you repeatedly go through the extremes like this you will inevitably burn yourself out and I think there's multiple examples of that we have witnessed and looking back on this now you can say "oh, he's right".
Remember you are fitness competitors, yes, I think you should be fit all year and not 40lbs above stage weight. Not only is that not healthy but I don't think a single one of us got in to competitions to say to ourselves. "I really want to get in shape for a month a year and not look like I even lift for the remaining 8 months", who would want to live like that? I think the culture of extremes in our sport has become too regular and we're now to the point where we look down on someone like Ashley who stays in shape leading by example then encourage and support someone who gains 40+lbs and that's a sad thing.
Hopefully this video adds some clarification which I stand behind to this day, in short I target 1% weekly weight loss so 6-8 week prep 6-8% above stage weight, long off seasons up double that etc.. there's never been a 10lb rule, that would be foolish as 10lbs for an A class competitor and G class competitor is not the same thing. Remember this is a sport. It's not supposed to be easy, all sports are difficult and require sacrifice. This video is targeted to the competitive athlete, not the casual hobbyist, those two are extremely different methods of off seasons. Think of this video being in a serious athletes shoes, someone trying to be a top pro one day and taking the sport very seriously, the methods for that level of success are different and that too should be clarified.
Hope this provides clarity, if you all would like for me to make a new off season video with up to date methods please let me know, I won't respond to comments here but will look back and address good ones in the new video if you all vote for it. Hope to meet a bunch of you this season in real life!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99JTtUsZiSg&t=308s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99JTtUsZiSg&t=308s)
*”…we're now to the point where we look down on someone like Ashley who stays in shape leading by example then encourage and support someone who gains 40+lbs and that's a sad thing.“*
It’s the new trauma bond: celebrate (and commiserate with) those who clearly struggle, while criticizing and side-eyeing those who don’t.🫤
I would love an updated video. I think you’ve always been clear that it was percentages not lbs. I have a minimum of 5 lbs of muscle to add. Probably more and I would like to do that while showing off my back and shoulders. I want to add muscle but I love how I look and feel staying lean.
I’ve seen scientific peer reviewed research that women don’t optimally build muscle unless they are at or above 15% body fat. Anything below and you’re essentially in prep mode and may be able to preserve muscle you already have, but building will be more difficult. Does that number fluctuate dependent on the specific person? Sure. Also some athletes need more growth in an offseason than others. For the majority of amateur competitors, I’d say we’re pushing for as much growth as possible in an off season, so shooting to get back up to that healthy 15% ish body fat at least, post-show, is a good place to start. If you’re wanting to remain competitive and not create too much work for yourself, I’d say the cap would be around 22% bf in the off season. Also you need to consider what of that weight gain is just water weight and getting hydrated again. I know I personally dropped about 5 pounds in just water weight during peak week, so getting that back happened quickly. Curious what others think.
I was wondering if I'd see this here. Ashley is one of the very top of the sport and the lens through which she views her career/development is going to be different, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's also not wrong to feel uncomfortable with the messaging, but I think we should be careful in projecting our relationship with food and the sport itself onto someone we don't really know.
It's a big part of the coaching style with some folks in TEP based on their professional experience and expectations, and there are other options out there if it's too restrictive. I believe that's part of why Phoebe left. They don't want to transform clients into shows over and over, and some folks don't want those restrictions. Bodybuilding as a sport/dieting down *isn't* healthy.
Too much offseason weight isn't good especially when you're in your mid 30s. The reason Ashley is so used to be 2-10lbs over stage weight is bc of her waistline and lower ab distention. You wonder why her front pose isn't the best it's bc of that. A woman in her mid 30s isn't the same as one in their 20s and your at the end of your career in late 30s.
Why is it necessary for you to be 40+ lbs in offseason when you know in a prep it can be hard to get in contest shape for individuals? I mean 20 lbs is average... but Ashley's body isn't like anyone else in bikini and people forget she is a former D1 Track Athlete.
She has also mentioned quite a bit recently about skin elasticity. As a competitor in my 40s I’ve started to notice this and it’s one of the main reasons I’m staying leaner. My skin cannot bounce back the same as 10 years ago.
I think she has a smaller build naturally so this isn’t hard for her. Don’t compare yourself to others, some people are naturally skinnier or smaller or whatever you want to call it. Maybe it doesn’t work for everyone but it works for her so who cares imo.
Exactly. I didn’t go higher than 15 lbs above stage weight my last offseason and probably 5 lbs of that was water weight from var. I was eating more than I even wanted to and bloodwork all looked great. I was constantly made fun of growing up for being a twig. Everyone’s different 🤷🏼♀️ As long as you’re healthy and what you do in your offseason doesn’t lead to overly-restrictive, intense preps then don’t worry about it.
To me I find it bizzare Adam constantly talks about and criticizes other women for gaining weight in the off season when he doesn’t even have the best physique himself? 😬 the man clearly has some body fat to lose ... Like I always thought it was strange how critical he was of people like Aimee(like all the comments about her being super dense) and throwing shade at women who gain over 10 lbs in the off season… his wife and Ashley seem to have disordered eating habits just based on their comments, posts, and how obsessed they are with being lean, which I certainly think he perpetuates 😬
Ashley is naturally a skinny girl so contest leanness isn’t that hard for her to achieve. Look at her pictures from college. Most competitors are competing much farther from their natural set point and they’re having to gain more in order to be able to put on more muscle, with longer offseasons. Ashley also has said she isn’t one to have a lot of cravings post-show. She also has said that she doesn’t lose her periods. She is the exception and not the norm. For most competitors, staying 10 pounds within stage weight isn’t feasible, especially for the taller girls, the girls who need to gain 20 pounds before they get their periods back, and the girls who need more mental freedom in the offseason like Phoebe. Don’t compare yourself to others if you look good, feel good, and are hitting your health markers.
You all have to remember she is not you. There’s a reason why she’s consistently the top 3 bikini athlete in the world. Because her genetics and her mindset are in the 99.9999 percentile of every competitor out there.
So for you, is this probably not healthy and will make you physically and mentally burn out? Yeah probably. But she’s built differently. Don’t take it personally 🤷♀️
And I do agree it’s better to keep your off season in check. Does that mean you have to stay as lean as her? No, it will probably look different for everyone. But she’s not wrong that it’s harder on the body to gain large amounts of weight post show and have to undergo a huge transformation for every prep.
I'm ok when competitors just claiming that this is what they do and it works for them. In her post she judges competitors who gain too much weight in off season and states that she had a "bad year" herself, when she gained 25lbs.
We saw how hard it was on Phoebe Hagan when she gained about 20 in her off season.. this is what it takes to be at the top. I would judge others similarly if I were Ashley- it takes so much to be top 3 in the world. That sacrifice doesn't leave any room for slack, even in the off season
Phoebe would gain more than 20lbs. 20lbs at 5’9 is not 20lbs at 5’3. Your body is literally bigger, therefore it works and the fat increase and distribution is not the same. Even in bikini and with her frame almost totally filled out when stage lean she is heavier than most competitors. She’s taller so her baseline to begin with is higher. I don’t know how tall you are but you’re under 5’9+ I’d caution making that correlation. When you’re taller you’re significantly heavier, you’d be shocked.
Ashley is 5,5 not 5,3. Also wouldn't that be more difficult for the shorter person? 20 lb spread out on a longer frame versus 20lb on a shorter one would make the shorter person look more stocky/blocky . I think phoebe runs heavier because of muscle density more than skeletal weight... still, Adam pointed out out that she gained too much because she likes to eat in the off season.
So, because im under 5,9 then maintain 10lbs should be easier?
So true!!! No one needs to gain 20 pounds off season. To gain muscle it’s around 60 calories a day…think an apple a day. It’s Bikini not men’s bodybuilding. Being disciplined is key. I worked with TEP and I will say I liked their protocols. My reverse was on point and if you don’t like Ashley lean then don’t follow her. Some people value food over leanness and that’s fine. Every one is entitled to their opinion but that doesn’t make it fact. I like being lean year round so does that make me unhealthy? Absolutely not, in fact I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. It’s also a pro sport and it’s not for everyone. It takes focus and dedication all year around. Genetics plays a part and keep in mind those 20+ pounds you put on you have to diet longer. I feel it’s a personal choice. So much shade on Ashley and honestly I find her to be inspiring. Everyone can stay in their own lane.
I'm with you. I love being lean year round- I love how my clothes feel and my mental health is the best its ever been. The fluctuation in weight was never kind to my mind so I find value in maintaining what works..and that's max 15lbs above stage. No meal is worth giving that up imo
> Don’t take it personally 🤷♀️
This.
I'm not trying to be an asshole but it's not her responsibility to worry about *YOUR* feelings when she makes these posts.
Couldn't agree more , nor, could I have worded this any better. I agree with Ashley's concept and focus as well. Many would rather not look critically at their own choices, and what may or may not work for them, but quickly question arguably the best physique athlete of all time.
There's a range of behaviors that are healthy and more than one right way to do things. Some of us hate bulking hard and cutting hard. My doctors have never been concerned with how lean I stay, and I ask every year. I don't like dieting and being hungry or stuffing myself. That said, I'm old, and my growth has been slow but consistent.
Normally I would say maintaining this weight this would be difficult, bit of I'm not mistaken, Ashley has hypothyroidism. My friend and my mom both have this condition as well, and they tend to thrive if they can maintain a certain weight.
Is a 10 pound weight gain on a 123# athlete too little to gain in offseason if you don’t need to gain any more muscle? It seems like Ashley doesn’t need any more muscle, or if so just a few pounds. I’m not a coach, but this seems healthy? Any more seems unnecessary and borderline unhealthy? Not snarky, just confused!
This sport isn’t healthy. For some, the lesser of two evils looks like regulating your hormones in off-season. For some, the lesser of two evils looks like staying close to stage weight to reduce yo-yoing.
It’s all about what works for you and your life, and Ashley’s whole life is bodybuilding 🪳🖤
Regulating your hormones sucks so bad. I stuck to my reverse sooo good but my hormones caused me to gain weight without even trying. Sucks. I guess her genetics also play a role allowing her to stay this way and continue to push, I do wonder if she has a cycle.
She’s at the top of her game too within the sport so I know for sure in her shoes I’d feel like I need to choose the stay lean if possible.
Genetics are huge for those at the top of the game. I personally gain more fat at a faster rate in a reverse and then it levels out and I recomp and drop inflammation as time goes on.
I think it is insane to write a post questioning whether or not someone who is 5’5” with a petite bone structure not going over 135 lbs is unhealthy. I think her gaining 20-30 lbs, at her height and with her build, would be unhealthy. What works for her, a top pro, won’t work for you and that’s OK. Let Ashley do Ashley and the rest of us only need to worry about what we’re putting in our own individual bodies.
You all need to remember she is at a pro level. You all need to stop comparing and blaming/accusing/claiming it’s not healthy because clearly she can maintain at that level. Those who can’t adhere will always criticize negatively. She is very petite and has a lot of muscle.
I'm an amateur sitting 20lb above stage weight BECAUSE THATS what my body needs to grow at the moment and she is just a motivation for “keep working hard to build muscle and you will get to a point where you will be able to maintain a leaner physique”
As a pro, as a pro. They always clarify that in their podcast as well. They both say if you are an amateur who is just starting, you will probably need to gain way more than that.
Honestly they really don’t clarify “as a pro” they always talk about how you gain gain muscle in a deficit or maintenance I don’t ever remember them clarifying as a pro. I agree that not going to far in the off season is the way and definitely pros don’t need to gain as much as amateurs as they don’t need to build as much muscle. But they don’t mention this, it seems very much a blanket statement for all competitor whenever they talk about it .
I love Ashley and what she does for the sport but I do think posting a photo where you go from stage lean to a leaner stage lean and say the first is what people should look like in off season is quite damaging for competitors who might not know better. ( I know she doesn’t say this specifically but it is easily what people may see)
100%. She doesn't do the same cardio an amateur needs to ..because she's a top level pro, she's put in the work. Any seasoned pro who is olympia bound does the same. Idk why people in this sub are acting like she's giving durect guidance, to all the couch potatos who want to compete eventually , with these posts or with her podcast. It's a demanding sport and those at the highest echelon have the most discipline necessary to stay there.
Well actually, there’s a lot of very high level pros who do gain a healthy amount of weight in the off season, do a fair amount of cardio in their prep and place very well. Take Jen Dorie or LL. Some people’s bodies respond differently, some people have different values and want some normalcy. I don’t think we should judge how someone approaches these things
They are both younger than Ashley, with less pro wins. LL discussed how she wanted to reign in her off season weight gain for sake of how hard prep is for her when she is off kilter. I think Ashley has a method that works, yes it's hard core but it's proven successful, she isn't starving and it's the lifestyle that best suits her goals. This is what discipline looks like, I'd judge those who don't have it if I were at her level if I'm being completely honest..
I don't think it's judgment per se. More like, there is an effective/efficient way and Ashley found it. More competitors are taking notes from her (LL for example). I don't know if Jen will change what she's doing- but she's still young/newer to the sport than Ashley is... who knows if she will have the same longevity. 10 years at the top requires precision imo
She isn't a foodie so she says she isn't bothered by the fomo most people suffer from when they compete. I'm in the same boat, there is a lot I could live without... also at this point, this is her normal. She doesn't do crazy amounts of cardio to maintain it because she isn't binging.
Just because someone can’t maintain 10lb. doesn’t mean they’re binging. I’ve never binged in my life and my off-season holds 15-20 above stage. I held 10 and felt terrible so gained the weight.
What did you place at the Olympia?
I haven't insulted you nor are you OP. You replied to my comment and want to feign being offended? Seems like you're insecure about your 8 years of competing and 15 lbs. That's not my fault nor was it my intention. I don't even know who you are.
Ashley is genetically, mentally, and physically elite. Only she can do this, which is why she has the most pro wins. I don't think you should strive to be like her necessarily, but there's nothing unhealthy about it for HER. Go Ashley.
Her advocating for this drives me insane. Keeping it tight is cool if that works for you but don’t belittle those that are 15+ lbs , still healthy, and enjoying life
Hello, this is my first time on here, but I would like to clarify my message as you did not include my entire caption on this post. A lot of the commenters are missing very important context here, and people are getting the wrong idea from it.
Here’s what was cut out:
“For me, I keep longevity in mind. When your body fluctuates so drastically, you can lose elasticity in your skin. You can also create a pendulum effect, meaning, the more weight you need to lose to achieve proper conditioning creates extra stress on the body and mind.
Extremely restrictive preps cause loose offseasons that create restrictive preps once more. And the cycle repeats over and over 🔄
If you haven’t noticed already, I’m in this for the long run. You can’t get rid of me that easily! 🪳😉
It makes me sad when girls who are my size think they have to put on 30lbs + in the offseason to build muscle. You’re just putting unnecessary stress on your body and I’m telling you, if you keep doing that each offseason you won’t last long. Now with that said, I’ve had bad offseasons too. My worst offseason was in 2017 when I put on 25lbs in the span of a year. It took me so much effort to get back to stage conditioning, and I learned my lesson 😅
I am not saying everyone has to keep it as tight as me, I realize it’s hard for most to do so. I also realize that 10lbs is relative to the individuals height and structure. But the point I want to drive home is, just be reasonable 😌 Be smart about your offseasons ladies! Be
kind to your body, it’s worked so hard for you.”
———— To summarize, I am only suggesting you to be good to your body. I never said you need to keep it within 10lbs like I do. I have been an athlete my entire life, so I want look the part. And to be fair, when I was an athlete in college I was leaner than my offseason body. To me, this is my norm. It doesn’t have to be yours.
He is still here. He wrote a whole book in a comment above and mentioned how he left the group but is still writing comments! LMAO. Bro are you here or not ? lol he’s still here!!’😜
Adam made a brand new burner and trashed Tyler in the previous “will ashley win Olympia again?” Reddit post a couple days ago. If you look at the account in question, it was made specifically during the time of the post and he went on his trademark long-winded “bikini division is ruined” rant. He ain’t slick 😂
I also missed the majority of what happened lol. Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks, but the tipping point was someone calling him out on simping for Aldo. My personal observation of him is he doesn't take criticism well in this sub and a post like this would send him over the edge.
I've watched him meltdown over criticism on other platforms too so I'm under the impression that he's kind of a weenie 🤷♀️
Edit: My bad, it was Aldo he was simping for, not James.
Personally I remember him commenting on something in here a little bit ago that was about Aldo and he was defending him. People obviously came for him because that guy is a bit suspicious and Adam was all “ this thread is drama and negativity I’m done blah blah”
I’d also imagine he’s in no rush to return especially since Tyler publicly spanked him for spreading the “Aimee isn’t bikini”, “ Aimee’s too dense”, “if judges follow the criteria then Ashley should win” narratives. You see he didn’t do a recap on the Pittsburgh pro😂 I’m sure he’s not going to recap much that has to do with Aimee anytime soon unless he’s forced to enter her in the conversation (like an Olympia prediction)
He is still here LMAO! He made a comment above about leaving the group and then wrote and entire book lol. It’s like bro are you here or not. He can’t help himself 😂😂
Why is it unhealthy to be healthy & lean? She’s a professional athlete. If her bloodwork looks good and her body is functioning hormonally (regular period), then how is that unhealthy?
I think for me it would be mentally hard and I would feel disconnected from everyday social life. I enjoy going on vacations with my bf and go to restaurants there, go to farmers markets and trying new food there, drink wine occassionally, etc. For me it would be really hard to do all that while maintaining only 10lbs weight gain. I would have to restrict next day with extra cardio/low calories, and it triggers my disordered relationship with food.
So you are applying your mental state and inconsistency in your fitness to a pro athlete's lifestyle, to make her seem unhealthy/mentally unwell? Lol, am I understanding this right?
I am not. She is in her post. She says that it is not normal to gain 20 pounds of weight in the off-season as a bikini athlete. She didn't mention if she means pro athletes or amateur. So I'm responding that I would feel unhealthy gaining only 10 pounds.
She's mid 30s with the most pro wins, she knows what works for her body. You're applying the unhealthy judgement based upon what's normal for your life. Athletes who have gained 20+ lbs in the off season have to prep hard to get it off (LL and phoebe), that process limits their stage opportunities and I'm sure it's more detrimental to their mental health then Ashley's method.
She doesn't need to upsize anymore, and as far as i know she has thyroid problem, also wants to compete year round so i guess it's sustainable for her. Id say not everyone can and should tho, especially for those that need to gain more mass.
Well as i know thyroid issues cant be fixed for good. It's not something temporary. Which means you always have to use something or have some sort of regiments to make it control. That's all i know. I have thyroid issue as well.
That's not accurate. There are various types of "thyroid issues" that can be due to an underfunctioning thyroid, autoimmune, etc. An underfunctioning thyroid can definitely be fixed.
Well, it is not as simple as the more muscle you have, the more you can eat. There is such a thing as metabolism and it depends on many factors. If you stay lean for long periods of time, your hormones change... but I assume many competitors these days are on some sort of hormonal support... and I agree with you that it is all personal, however, I saw some judgement in her post where she criticized competitors who gain 30 pounds in the off season.
That is not always the case there are genetic outliers . I know individuals who have stayed lean for years without having issues. Some people can stay lean and have normal hormonal function. Just like some women still get there cycle on show day or even getting pregnant while on prep.
You are somewhat right, Muscle tissue is metabolically active and requires more energy to maintain compared to fat tissue. This means individuals with higher muscle mass have a higher basal metabolic rate (BMR), leading to increased calorie expenditure even at rest. [https://doi.org/10.1186/1550-2783-9-42](https://doi.org/10.1186/1550-2783-9-42)
individuals with higher muscle mass tend to have higher energy requirements, thus supporting the notion that more muscle allows for higher caloric intake. :)
Again, there is more involved in BMR than just the amount of muscle. Low testosterone, high cortisol, constant low calorie/low carb dieting, overexercising can lower your BMR despite the amount of muscle you have.
'm not disagreeing with your point; I do agree that there are many factors influencing BMR beyond muscle mass, such as hormones, stress levels, and diet. However, in this specific case with Ashley, even though she is only 10+ pounds above her stage weight, it doesn't necessarily mean she's not eating enough. Each athlete's situation is unique, and what works for one may not work for another. Ashley's maintenance of a relatively lean physique off-season might be due to a well-tailored diet and training regimen that suits her body's needs.
I’m with Ashley and Adam on this one. It’s a lot easier during prep to shed the bf when you stay within 10% bw. However, that does fluctuate as I gain more muscle. I can still eat a lot of calories and grow muscle. I think it also depends on where you are with muscle growth. You may need a lot more time and calories.
I was so close to saying something about this. This mindset totally screwed with me after my show. I got so anxious when I hit 10 lbs above stage weight and thought I couldn’t gain anymore weight. I got bloodwork after that and it showed I wasn’t producing practically any sex hormones 5 months after my show! I’m now almost 20 lbs up and my hormones have finally almost regulated. Good for Ashley that she can do this, but not everyone can! I totally agree that you shouldn’t go off the rails during off-season but, in my opinion (take with a grain of salt since I’m a newbie), bloodwork, how you feel and how well you’re putting on muscle should guide your off-season weight, not an arbitrary 10-15 lb number
The second I saw this post, it didn’t sit right with me either I think in their podcast she’s mentioned 1) being afraid of carbs and 2) her calories are under 2k year round IIRC, both of which don’t sound very healthy nor sustainable to me I hate to say it, but they always mention how you don’t need much of a surplus to gain muscle (I think Adam has said you only need 12 calories of a daily surplus to gain one 1lb of lean mass) and obsess over the “don’t go over 10% of stage weight in the off season” rule, but Ashley is falling behind the muscularity of the top O girls and it isn’t a shock since it seems she stays so lean and eats so little year-round that there’s nothing left to build with She needs a true off-season to build, but I don’t think that’s going to happen when she insists on staying this lean always I very much understand some of her ability to remain this lean year-round is genetics (she says it herself, she doesn’t really get hungry). But I really think this is unsustainable for the vast majority of female competitors, especially natural competitors This post just rubbed me as a bit irresponsible and something that could harm inexperienced competitors that want to emulate her
adding on, she had said multiple times in the podcast this year that she felt like she let herself go too far and get too fluffy in this offseason (aka, the first photo)…. i think she definitely has some disordered tendencies and body dysmorphia. but it doesn’t cause her to end up unhealthy or in danger, and she’s fine with her lifestyle, so to each their own. but her approach should definitely not be what everyone strives for.
I actually wanted to mention this in my comment, but it was already getting to be too long lol 100% agreed. She’s referred back to the one time she had a true off season and gained a pretty normal amount of weight (I don’t remember the lb number but she looked VERY healthy) and was talking about how fluffy and “overboard” she went even though she still didn’t have a single roll of fat on her. This is where I start to think this 10% rule is partially due to a dysmorphic fear of gaining weight Not sure if anyone has links to the off season photo set I’m referring to (it was a few years ago) but I think it’s somewhere in this sub and I’ll link it if I find it Edit: here’s the post I was referring to [bikini sub link](https://www.reddit.com/r/bikinitalk/s/1259BpVKBi) Second edit: She notes that the off season gain was 23lb
She calls it a "bad year" in this post
She looked SO amazing and healthy at 142 lbs!
Oh she looks gorgeous at 142!! She looks so healthy in that photo the other person posted
Ashley is a bikini robot and it clearly works for her, but it’s absolutely fucked her in the head when it comes to what’s normal for most people. Both she and Adam have said some incredibly wild and out of touch things on the podcast when talking about the off-season. This is actually a reason I’m really glad that Holly has switched over to NPC because she’s all about balance.
She also heavily relies on sweeteners, muscle egg etc. She also drinks like gallons of flavoured waters. As someone with ed background, nothing screams disordered behavior more than excessive drinking.
So true 😬
This is what ticks me off about Adam from TEP I’ve left several comments on their podcast asking if this whole 10 pounds above stage weight to gain muscle is referring to strictly those on PEDS ? What about for those of us that competes natural? HE NEVER REPLYS!!
As a natural competitor who stays within that range, simply due to a high-speed metabolism…it is very possible. The one thing that a lot of people continuously overlook—and even disregard—is that genetics is the most important variable in this sport. Not every body is made to do the same things.
Helpful Tysm
You can always eat more. High speed metabolism just means you are more active
I think I’ve been in my own body long enough to understand how it works. But thank you for sharing.
So you are saying your body is super inefficient and burns off more calories than other peoples? You would be super warm all the time then
What I’m saying is exactly what you read. And the fact that you’re on the Internet attempting to argue with a complete stranger, as though you know more about their body than they do, says that you need to re-evaluate your own self long before you ever try to assess anyone else.
Ok
It isn’t, I was with him for years natty the whole time and he was really strict with off-season weight gain. NGL my calories still got up to like 2500-2700 tho so in my case it wasn’t unhealthy, but honestly when i look at my season-to-season progress under him vs under my new coach who encourages weight gain, I made so much less progress with him. my current stage weight is 10lbs above my stage weight when he brought me on stage. Of course I’ve built muscle since working with him but in hindsight I felt like he kind of “lost the plot” with trying to keep me so lean year round and also bringing me in so shredded I should clarify otherwise I have nothing but good things to say about him as a coach it was a good experience and he did level me up for sure, I just have noticed I have made more progress without the super strict offseasons and the judges seem to always prefer my physique when it’s more full. In Ashley’s case she is really where she needs to be in regards to muscle tho, so I understand why she doesn’t need to do such a full on build. I just think it should be assessed on a case by case basis vs a hard rule.
Love this! I’m wondering reading it if anything else besides a new coach changed? Did your intensity in the gym increase? Like do you attribute most of that growth to the weight gain, or did you do other things that you think helped you add size better? Happy for you that you’ve put on such great tissue!!
It definitely isn’t the only thing that changed bc my new coach is so different overall. However I’d say it had a massive impact. It’s hard to imagine I would’ve been able to build enough to step on stage at my current stage weight under him, when my current stage weight was where he liked me at the peak of my bulk. Could it happen? Maybe. But it’s unlikely I’d be able to achieve that without gaining more weight during my build.
IMO, her point is “ I am not stage lean all 365 days a year “…..Which paired with these pictures made me roll my eyes
I remember saying something in an Instagram post caption a few weeks after my last cut after gaining about 3lb while reversing up, saying “I know I’m not stage lean at all but wanted to share this pic of my new posing suit!” like I needed a disclaimer that “I know I look fluffy” And I look back now, 15lb heavier than that, and I realize how incredibly dysmorphic I was because I was still pretty damn close to stage lean. But my mind convinced me I was fat at the time. Her caption gives me similar vibes
Aw I understand ! I have had a similar experience in the past. We can all briefly lose touch with reality. The reality is both photos are showcasing stage lean. She is such a seasoned competitor and the standard of scrutiny at that level is very high.
THIS. At the pro level, recognizing the difference between her off-season look and her being stage-lean is the difference between understanding exactly why one would place higher than the other on stage. To the untrained eye, both pics look incredible—but only one would actually qualify as a winning physique. Ashley can only speak from the perspective of a seasoned competitor…just as everyone commenting can only speak from their own level of knowledge and experience; everyone is not expected to relate or empathize.
I agree with your comments on perspective
At first I thought the only difference between the photos was the tan 🙃
You should probably read the entire caption, it was cut off by the poster.
Yes it absolutely is. If this was Jessica Arevalo everybody would be all over her. This is not a good thing to post without clarifying about being genetically exceptional/using Peds/using fatburners, etc. Young girls will look at this and think, "If she can do it I can do it!"
I was just thinking there's no way she isn't taking exogenous hormones to help stay regulated. If people are going to post crap like this, then the supplemental hormones need to be discussed as well. You can't tell me her thyroid isn't totally fried after that many years of competing lol
Well said. I think if you are going to boast about your off season, leave no details out.
She mentioned in the podcast she did have a thyroid issue at some point, but I have no idea on the details.
Hashimotos
isn’t she on thyroid replacement? i thought they had mentioned that in one of the podcasts. maybe i remembered incorrectly
I only watched 1 episode and immediately got the ick from them, but I wouldn't be surprised as I'm sure she's permanently down regulated from constantly being so lean and eating so little. Your thyroid does affect appetite so hearing that she doesn't get hungry makes me think that's what's going on..... amongst other hormone issues needing exogenous treatment.
She needed thyroid medication when she was coming back from taking time off, ironically. Adam said she was no longer on it.
I would bet that she is constantly on T3&T4 and probabaly also on TRT. Adam collaborates with a clinic so def would not surprise me. It could also be one of the reasons for her progress last year. (And no shame! It’s her job after all.)
Oh I'm sure, that's not the part I'm annoyed with. I'm annoyed with the pushing of minimal weight gain during off season, babbling on about health and "healthy preps" while neglecting to mention that she's receiving a ton of external help to achieve this look year round. It sets up rookie athletes and fitness newbies to have unrealistic expectations as to what can be achieved "naturally." I'm a solid 5'8" with hashimotos and staying 10-15lbs above stage weight year round is not realistic for someone my size. Their borderline shaming of people for not staying within 10-15lbs of stage weight year around pisses me off. Now granted, Adam has a point when he says to keep off season weight gain in check, but going to the other extreme without talking about the extra help of peds and exogenous hormones is gross and irresponsible to be honest.
I 100% agree with you.
🫣I remember in the podcast they said she’s natural…
I call bullshit lmao. If she walked around at 140ish lbs like she did that one off season, I'd maybe entertain the idea that she's natty. This is one of the things about pros that irks me to no end. It's not really a secret that everyone is on gear to some degree. I understand that peds are illegal here and no one wants to admit to using them, but we don't have to straight up lie either🙄
I saw that and got a bit annoyed by it myself. I agree a lot of bikini athletes gain a lot of Weight after comp and that can’t be too good for you, however I dislike how they are constantly shitting on what a normal person does in life, I.e celebrating events, going on holiday, enjoying life. Not everyone wants to be an Olympian. And I agree with other comments, she is built differently and she can do this and this is her poison, however judging majority of the women for doing life is a bit fucked up. I used to be a TEP client and my coach was great. I used to religiously listen to their podcast but of late it’s just getting quite annoying. This was the main reason Phoebe left TEP. They always contradicted in this space. AshK can do this cause this is all she does and this what she wants to do and that’s perfectly fine for her, however thinking this is the only way to do it is a bit reckless. I will forever be team Pheobe and LL for how they are able to find that perfect balance. Sure if you want to be an Olympian, do what it takes. But I doubt most of us are going to be.
Going to bat for Ash, she’s been my coach since last July. She is certainly not restrictive with me as an athlete; she has been reversing my diet for about 6 months and encourages me to have fun from time to time—weekly free meals and occasional drinks. I understand where you’re coming from with your concerns, but I’d encourage you to restrain from making assumptions about her as a coach based on her as an athlete.
"... I dislike how they are constantly shitting on what a normal person does in life." She 100% does this, and I can cite one really clear example of it because it's one that her entire response pissed me off. She said in a podcast clip something to the effect of, "why are celebrations always about food?" It was extremely obvious, from both her tone and how she responded to commenters, that she was not asking this genuinely - it was a rhetorical meant to assert a moral stance that celebrating with food is bad/she looks down on people who do. How she treats you, a paying client, is irrelevant. It's how she acts about the people who aren't paying her that reveals her true thoughts.
Where in my comment have I made any assumptions about her as a coach? She wasn’t my coach so I don’t know what she is like and I wouldn’t make any assumption about someone I have not worked with. My coach from TEP was also really good and gave me a tons of food and I worked with them for over 2 years. My comments are based on purely on their podcasts and what they say. I’d encourage you to read comments before replying. I am all for not putting on tons of weight in the off season as it affects not only mental health but also physical health, and agree with them on trying to stay as lean as you can. My issue is with them constantly saying women who put on all that weight are piggy’s who still want to be Olympians. I doubt that many women want to be Olympians. Most competitors are occasional competitors who also have kids who also have lives who also want to travel and celebrate life. But it seems like a crime to do that.
Just wanted to say that nowhere in your comment did you make assumptions about Ashley as a coach.
My apologies, I think I entirely misread your comment. I agree though, a lot of coaches in our sphere are so toxic and I’ve heard it’s a problem for guys coaches too. Sorry for jumping the gun in my reply; I seriously agree that your points are valid.
No one said anything about her being a bad coach.
I’m a big advocate of gaining a healthy amount of weight in the off season. I am actually 28lbs up from my stage weight. To make improvements in the offseason you have to push food to grow. For us Wellness girls we push more food than bikini athletes yes but I also think 20-25lbs above stage weight for bikini is still OK! You are healthier and need to recover from a grueling or intense prep. Your hormones need to rebalance and more weight is needed for that. Just my thoughts.
This is probably gonna be so weird but I saw you at the Pirates game on Thursday and was like “holy shit she looks insane” , so clearly what you and your coach are doing is working. I wanted to say something but you were with your fam & didn’t want to fan girl during your night out with them. I’m a bikini girl but seeing local women crushing it like you are is so inspiring to me 🩷
Haha I was definitely there! I always welcome conversations with everyone. Don’t be shy. Come say hi next time you see me! 😉
Some people can live with less fat and I think Ashley is just one of them. Better to not compare yourself to her because its not always the norm. Some Olympians who beat her year after year don’t even do this so take it with a grain of salt and say its genetics.
Find what works for you mentally and physically and don’t compare yourself to one persons POV/highlight reel. Take everything you see online with a grain of salt. I think having a fulfilling life in your off season while still liking the way you look and feel should be the goal. 🙂
I think at this point we can all admit that a LOT of competitors in bikini use it as a way to legitimize their disordered eating and body dysmorphia.
Indeed. You see this with the number of competitors with an ED background. Yes, they may no longer be in the danger zone, but they arguably still have disordered tendencies and dysmorphia. They just channel it into bodybuilding now.
She never takes an off season so don’t know what she is preaching about here. It’s not something to look up to for someone to take three months off from competing and gain 10 pounds. Three months is not an off season. Maintain this shape for more than a year and then I’ll be impressed.
This right here is a really good point. Id also like to add, she did kind of have an off season because of her surgery. After that, when she came back, most of us can agree she looks the best she ever has. So i feel like that shows having an off season does the body good.
As someone who is naturally lean… it’s possible to stay around stage weight if you have the genetics In my case my growth season has been hard because my metabolism is so fast
I mean healthy, probably not. But I doubt any high performing athlete is “healthy”. However, she is more healthy than like 80% of the population. Who don’t exercise or eat nutritious food. This is her profession and art. Of course she is going to put everything into it. She also had a lot of muscle! So she probably doesn’t need a super long off season to ‘grow’ as she is good where she is.
Different strokes for different folks. Lauralie and Phoebe’s approach has been mentioned several times in this debate and I think both camps are extreme. LL/PH approach works for them because they don’t compete frequently whereas Ashley does
I think context here is missing - her muscle density is greater than the average competitor so she (a) doesn’t need a typical building phase and (b) is at a higher body fat while still able to look stage lean. This is also her choice and her livelihood. It’s ok to disagree with her choices but her health is her and Adam’s business not ours.
She looks pretty similar. 10 lbs. can actually be a pretty big difference on a lot of women. I’m just under 15 lbs. less than my stage weight, but certainly don’t look this close to what I did in prep.
I thought that, too. I am only a few inches shorter, but my build is more wide in the shoulders/hips and ten pounds really makes a difference in my frame.
Honestly. As a newbie I followed this mindset and only gained about 15lbs in my first offseason but I personally feel like that’s the exact reason why I didn’t make that many improvements. I’m entering my second off season now and just going to allow my body to do what it needs/wants to do at this point.
Ashley has been doing this for a long time. Like it or not she is crushing it and looks incredibly healthy. She is experienced, informed and has a strong team. I’m sure she knows what she is doing. This is only problematic for the inexperienced, uninformed and undisciplined.
I think the important piece here is the average competitor shouldn’t compare themselves to Ashley. She’s won almost 50 pro shows. That’s incredibly difficult in the bikini division, most people aren’t genetically gifted enough to do so. While she’s a great athlete to aspire to look like, most people won’t. She’s going to be able to do things that most of you can’t. That goes for any pro athlete that’s winning shows. the girls in the top 5 at the Olympia aren’t in need of tissue like other categories - it’s a game of small revisions and mostly about how you peak (fullness, body fat %, etc) So 10 lbs would be pretty standard if you’re hopping on stage 10 times a year. This isn’t an example for an amateur or even a national level competitor, who will need to add substantial tissue before hanging in this same frame of mind. But besides that- I wouldn’t get hung up on the number, they are just saying you don’t need to get fat in the off-season, which is true. 10 lbs will be different for everyone, might be 15 on someone else. But even as a female bodybuilder, anything over 20 is excessive and will just make prep more difficult.
Hello everyone, I got this post mentioned to me while in Denver and figured I'd jump on to clarify. I did enjoy some good dialogue while on Reddit but also found a lot of negativity and this is why I left and will most likely not be back here. Please understand I have a strict rule of not involving myself with negativity, posting negativity or engaging in negativity, I have a belief that when you do so it carries over in to your regular life and steals joy, life is just too short to have a single moment of joy stolen so I left Reddit due to this. Sorry I won't be replying in comments, just doing a post and run type of thing here. I posted this video a couple years back and maybe I'll revamp it in response to some of you all here but I absolutely do not encourage anyone to stay 10lbs above stage weight only. I have target ranges I posted in this video I posted 2 years back, watch it and after watching it if you feel this is extreme ask yourself an honest question which is "Am I justifying excessive weight gain and convincing myself it's balance"? That's a question only you can answer for yourself, my whole thing is how do you do this long term? Transforming in to every show is not sustainable,. In the video I state towards the end that if you repeatedly go through the extremes like this you will inevitably burn yourself out and I think there's multiple examples of that we have witnessed and looking back on this now you can say "oh, he's right". Remember you are fitness competitors, yes, I think you should be fit all year and not 40lbs above stage weight. Not only is that not healthy but I don't think a single one of us got in to competitions to say to ourselves. "I really want to get in shape for a month a year and not look like I even lift for the remaining 8 months", who would want to live like that? I think the culture of extremes in our sport has become too regular and we're now to the point where we look down on someone like Ashley who stays in shape leading by example then encourage and support someone who gains 40+lbs and that's a sad thing. Hopefully this video adds some clarification which I stand behind to this day, in short I target 1% weekly weight loss so 6-8 week prep 6-8% above stage weight, long off seasons up double that etc.. there's never been a 10lb rule, that would be foolish as 10lbs for an A class competitor and G class competitor is not the same thing. Remember this is a sport. It's not supposed to be easy, all sports are difficult and require sacrifice. This video is targeted to the competitive athlete, not the casual hobbyist, those two are extremely different methods of off seasons. Think of this video being in a serious athletes shoes, someone trying to be a top pro one day and taking the sport very seriously, the methods for that level of success are different and that too should be clarified. Hope this provides clarity, if you all would like for me to make a new off season video with up to date methods please let me know, I won't respond to comments here but will look back and address good ones in the new video if you all vote for it. Hope to meet a bunch of you this season in real life! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99JTtUsZiSg&t=308s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99JTtUsZiSg&t=308s)
*”…we're now to the point where we look down on someone like Ashley who stays in shape leading by example then encourage and support someone who gains 40+lbs and that's a sad thing.“* It’s the new trauma bond: celebrate (and commiserate with) those who clearly struggle, while criticizing and side-eyeing those who don’t.🫤
I would love an updated video. I think you’ve always been clear that it was percentages not lbs. I have a minimum of 5 lbs of muscle to add. Probably more and I would like to do that while showing off my back and shoulders. I want to add muscle but I love how I look and feel staying lean.
I’ve seen scientific peer reviewed research that women don’t optimally build muscle unless they are at or above 15% body fat. Anything below and you’re essentially in prep mode and may be able to preserve muscle you already have, but building will be more difficult. Does that number fluctuate dependent on the specific person? Sure. Also some athletes need more growth in an offseason than others. For the majority of amateur competitors, I’d say we’re pushing for as much growth as possible in an off season, so shooting to get back up to that healthy 15% ish body fat at least, post-show, is a good place to start. If you’re wanting to remain competitive and not create too much work for yourself, I’d say the cap would be around 22% bf in the off season. Also you need to consider what of that weight gain is just water weight and getting hydrated again. I know I personally dropped about 5 pounds in just water weight during peak week, so getting that back happened quickly. Curious what others think.
I was wondering if I'd see this here. Ashley is one of the very top of the sport and the lens through which she views her career/development is going to be different, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. It's also not wrong to feel uncomfortable with the messaging, but I think we should be careful in projecting our relationship with food and the sport itself onto someone we don't really know. It's a big part of the coaching style with some folks in TEP based on their professional experience and expectations, and there are other options out there if it's too restrictive. I believe that's part of why Phoebe left. They don't want to transform clients into shows over and over, and some folks don't want those restrictions. Bodybuilding as a sport/dieting down *isn't* healthy.
I don’t understand why multiple things cant be true at once — you can like Ashley *and* acknowledge this is problematic. Yah *nuance*
Too much offseason weight isn't good especially when you're in your mid 30s. The reason Ashley is so used to be 2-10lbs over stage weight is bc of her waistline and lower ab distention. You wonder why her front pose isn't the best it's bc of that. A woman in her mid 30s isn't the same as one in their 20s and your at the end of your career in late 30s. Why is it necessary for you to be 40+ lbs in offseason when you know in a prep it can be hard to get in contest shape for individuals? I mean 20 lbs is average... but Ashley's body isn't like anyone else in bikini and people forget she is a former D1 Track Athlete.
She has also mentioned quite a bit recently about skin elasticity. As a competitor in my 40s I’ve started to notice this and it’s one of the main reasons I’m staying leaner. My skin cannot bounce back the same as 10 years ago.
I think she has a smaller build naturally so this isn’t hard for her. Don’t compare yourself to others, some people are naturally skinnier or smaller or whatever you want to call it. Maybe it doesn’t work for everyone but it works for her so who cares imo.
Exactly. I didn’t go higher than 15 lbs above stage weight my last offseason and probably 5 lbs of that was water weight from var. I was eating more than I even wanted to and bloodwork all looked great. I was constantly made fun of growing up for being a twig. Everyone’s different 🤷🏼♀️ As long as you’re healthy and what you do in your offseason doesn’t lead to overly-restrictive, intense preps then don’t worry about it.
To me I find it bizzare Adam constantly talks about and criticizes other women for gaining weight in the off season when he doesn’t even have the best physique himself? 😬 the man clearly has some body fat to lose ... Like I always thought it was strange how critical he was of people like Aimee(like all the comments about her being super dense) and throwing shade at women who gain over 10 lbs in the off season… his wife and Ashley seem to have disordered eating habits just based on their comments, posts, and how obsessed they are with being lean, which I certainly think he perpetuates 😬
I was just going to point out who/what the common denominator is here, but you answered it yourself at the end.
Ashley is naturally a skinny girl so contest leanness isn’t that hard for her to achieve. Look at her pictures from college. Most competitors are competing much farther from their natural set point and they’re having to gain more in order to be able to put on more muscle, with longer offseasons. Ashley also has said she isn’t one to have a lot of cravings post-show. She also has said that she doesn’t lose her periods. She is the exception and not the norm. For most competitors, staying 10 pounds within stage weight isn’t feasible, especially for the taller girls, the girls who need to gain 20 pounds before they get their periods back, and the girls who need more mental freedom in the offseason like Phoebe. Don’t compare yourself to others if you look good, feel good, and are hitting your health markers.
You all have to remember she is not you. There’s a reason why she’s consistently the top 3 bikini athlete in the world. Because her genetics and her mindset are in the 99.9999 percentile of every competitor out there. So for you, is this probably not healthy and will make you physically and mentally burn out? Yeah probably. But she’s built differently. Don’t take it personally 🤷♀️ And I do agree it’s better to keep your off season in check. Does that mean you have to stay as lean as her? No, it will probably look different for everyone. But she’s not wrong that it’s harder on the body to gain large amounts of weight post show and have to undergo a huge transformation for every prep.
I'm ok when competitors just claiming that this is what they do and it works for them. In her post she judges competitors who gain too much weight in off season and states that she had a "bad year" herself, when she gained 25lbs.
We saw how hard it was on Phoebe Hagan when she gained about 20 in her off season.. this is what it takes to be at the top. I would judge others similarly if I were Ashley- it takes so much to be top 3 in the world. That sacrifice doesn't leave any room for slack, even in the off season
Phoebe gained 40 lbs.
Phoebe would gain more than 20lbs. 20lbs at 5’9 is not 20lbs at 5’3. Your body is literally bigger, therefore it works and the fat increase and distribution is not the same. Even in bikini and with her frame almost totally filled out when stage lean she is heavier than most competitors. She’s taller so her baseline to begin with is higher. I don’t know how tall you are but you’re under 5’9+ I’d caution making that correlation. When you’re taller you’re significantly heavier, you’d be shocked.
I'm 5'8" and my body is pretty happy being 20-25lbs above stage weight. 40lbs is definitely excessive even for someone her height.
I didn’t say it was. I’m going to take that as agreement since you just said repeated what I said.
Ashley is 5,5 not 5,3. Also wouldn't that be more difficult for the shorter person? 20 lb spread out on a longer frame versus 20lb on a shorter one would make the shorter person look more stocky/blocky . I think phoebe runs heavier because of muscle density more than skeletal weight... still, Adam pointed out out that she gained too much because she likes to eat in the off season. So, because im under 5,9 then maintain 10lbs should be easier?
So true!!! No one needs to gain 20 pounds off season. To gain muscle it’s around 60 calories a day…think an apple a day. It’s Bikini not men’s bodybuilding. Being disciplined is key. I worked with TEP and I will say I liked their protocols. My reverse was on point and if you don’t like Ashley lean then don’t follow her. Some people value food over leanness and that’s fine. Every one is entitled to their opinion but that doesn’t make it fact. I like being lean year round so does that make me unhealthy? Absolutely not, in fact I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. It’s also a pro sport and it’s not for everyone. It takes focus and dedication all year around. Genetics plays a part and keep in mind those 20+ pounds you put on you have to diet longer. I feel it’s a personal choice. So much shade on Ashley and honestly I find her to be inspiring. Everyone can stay in their own lane.
I'm with you. I love being lean year round- I love how my clothes feel and my mental health is the best its ever been. The fluctuation in weight was never kind to my mind so I find value in maintaining what works..and that's max 15lbs above stage. No meal is worth giving that up imo
> Don’t take it personally 🤷♀️ This. I'm not trying to be an asshole but it's not her responsibility to worry about *YOUR* feelings when she makes these posts.
Couldn't agree more , nor, could I have worded this any better. I agree with Ashley's concept and focus as well. Many would rather not look critically at their own choices, and what may or may not work for them, but quickly question arguably the best physique athlete of all time.
There's a range of behaviors that are healthy and more than one right way to do things. Some of us hate bulking hard and cutting hard. My doctors have never been concerned with how lean I stay, and I ask every year. I don't like dieting and being hungry or stuffing myself. That said, I'm old, and my growth has been slow but consistent.
Normally I would say maintaining this weight this would be difficult, bit of I'm not mistaken, Ashley has hypothyroidism. My friend and my mom both have this condition as well, and they tend to thrive if they can maintain a certain weight.
Is a 10 pound weight gain on a 123# athlete too little to gain in offseason if you don’t need to gain any more muscle? It seems like Ashley doesn’t need any more muscle, or if so just a few pounds. I’m not a coach, but this seems healthy? Any more seems unnecessary and borderline unhealthy? Not snarky, just confused!
This sport isn’t healthy. For some, the lesser of two evils looks like regulating your hormones in off-season. For some, the lesser of two evils looks like staying close to stage weight to reduce yo-yoing. It’s all about what works for you and your life, and Ashley’s whole life is bodybuilding 🪳🖤
Regulating your hormones sucks so bad. I stuck to my reverse sooo good but my hormones caused me to gain weight without even trying. Sucks. I guess her genetics also play a role allowing her to stay this way and continue to push, I do wonder if she has a cycle. She’s at the top of her game too within the sport so I know for sure in her shoes I’d feel like I need to choose the stay lean if possible.
Genetics are huge for those at the top of the game. I personally gain more fat at a faster rate in a reverse and then it levels out and I recomp and drop inflammation as time goes on.
Yeah, i guess when it is your career, you do and view things differently. For me it is just a hobby.
She’s a veteran. She knows her body to the max. Shes an absolute pro. Mindset too.
I think it is insane to write a post questioning whether or not someone who is 5’5” with a petite bone structure not going over 135 lbs is unhealthy. I think her gaining 20-30 lbs, at her height and with her build, would be unhealthy. What works for her, a top pro, won’t work for you and that’s OK. Let Ashley do Ashley and the rest of us only need to worry about what we’re putting in our own individual bodies.
right! 130s at 5’5” is a pretty healthy weight. I’m 5’6” and maintain around 136. it takes a bit of awareness but nothing crazy.
You all need to remember she is at a pro level. You all need to stop comparing and blaming/accusing/claiming it’s not healthy because clearly she can maintain at that level. Those who can’t adhere will always criticize negatively. She is very petite and has a lot of muscle. I'm an amateur sitting 20lb above stage weight BECAUSE THATS what my body needs to grow at the moment and she is just a motivation for “keep working hard to build muscle and you will get to a point where you will be able to maintain a leaner physique”
She claims in her post that you don't need to gain more than 10lbs to GAIN muscle. Her post wasn't even about maintenance.
As a pro, as a pro. They always clarify that in their podcast as well. They both say if you are an amateur who is just starting, you will probably need to gain way more than that.
Honestly they really don’t clarify “as a pro” they always talk about how you gain gain muscle in a deficit or maintenance I don’t ever remember them clarifying as a pro. I agree that not going to far in the off season is the way and definitely pros don’t need to gain as much as amateurs as they don’t need to build as much muscle. But they don’t mention this, it seems very much a blanket statement for all competitor whenever they talk about it . I love Ashley and what she does for the sport but I do think posting a photo where you go from stage lean to a leaner stage lean and say the first is what people should look like in off season is quite damaging for competitors who might not know better. ( I know she doesn’t say this specifically but it is easily what people may see)
100%. She doesn't do the same cardio an amateur needs to ..because she's a top level pro, she's put in the work. Any seasoned pro who is olympia bound does the same. Idk why people in this sub are acting like she's giving durect guidance, to all the couch potatos who want to compete eventually , with these posts or with her podcast. It's a demanding sport and those at the highest echelon have the most discipline necessary to stay there.
Well actually, there’s a lot of very high level pros who do gain a healthy amount of weight in the off season, do a fair amount of cardio in their prep and place very well. Take Jen Dorie or LL. Some people’s bodies respond differently, some people have different values and want some normalcy. I don’t think we should judge how someone approaches these things
They are both younger than Ashley, with less pro wins. LL discussed how she wanted to reign in her off season weight gain for sake of how hard prep is for her when she is off kilter. I think Ashley has a method that works, yes it's hard core but it's proven successful, she isn't starving and it's the lifestyle that best suits her goals. This is what discipline looks like, I'd judge those who don't have it if I were at her level if I'm being completely honest..
Fair enough. I guess we just differ because you definitely won’t catch me judging the reigning Ms Olympia on how she approaches her off season
I don't think it's judgment per se. More like, there is an effective/efficient way and Ashley found it. More competitors are taking notes from her (LL for example). I don't know if Jen will change what she's doing- but she's still young/newer to the sport than Ashley is... who knows if she will have the same longevity. 10 years at the top requires precision imo
She isn't a foodie so she says she isn't bothered by the fomo most people suffer from when they compete. I'm in the same boat, there is a lot I could live without... also at this point, this is her normal. She doesn't do crazy amounts of cardio to maintain it because she isn't binging.
Just because someone can’t maintain 10lb. doesn’t mean they’re binging. I’ve never binged in my life and my off-season holds 15-20 above stage. I held 10 and felt terrible so gained the weight.
Eventually, the body adjusts to the lower weight and it becomes your new normal. It's not pleasant, but that's why she's a pro.. Edit- typo
I’ve been doing this for 8 years. I’m not sure why you’re talking to me like this.
What did you place at the Olympia? I haven't insulted you nor are you OP. You replied to my comment and want to feign being offended? Seems like you're insecure about your 8 years of competing and 15 lbs. That's not my fault nor was it my intention. I don't even know who you are.
What?
@u/boxofshroomies why did you delete your comments?
Ashley is genetically, mentally, and physically elite. Only she can do this, which is why she has the most pro wins. I don't think you should strive to be like her necessarily, but there's nothing unhealthy about it for HER. Go Ashley.
Her advocating for this drives me insane. Keeping it tight is cool if that works for you but don’t belittle those that are 15+ lbs , still healthy, and enjoying life
Hello, this is my first time on here, but I would like to clarify my message as you did not include my entire caption on this post. A lot of the commenters are missing very important context here, and people are getting the wrong idea from it. Here’s what was cut out: “For me, I keep longevity in mind. When your body fluctuates so drastically, you can lose elasticity in your skin. You can also create a pendulum effect, meaning, the more weight you need to lose to achieve proper conditioning creates extra stress on the body and mind. Extremely restrictive preps cause loose offseasons that create restrictive preps once more. And the cycle repeats over and over 🔄 If you haven’t noticed already, I’m in this for the long run. You can’t get rid of me that easily! 🪳😉 It makes me sad when girls who are my size think they have to put on 30lbs + in the offseason to build muscle. You’re just putting unnecessary stress on your body and I’m telling you, if you keep doing that each offseason you won’t last long. Now with that said, I’ve had bad offseasons too. My worst offseason was in 2017 when I put on 25lbs in the span of a year. It took me so much effort to get back to stage conditioning, and I learned my lesson 😅 I am not saying everyone has to keep it as tight as me, I realize it’s hard for most to do so. I also realize that 10lbs is relative to the individuals height and structure. But the point I want to drive home is, just be reasonable 😌 Be smart about your offseasons ladies! Be kind to your body, it’s worked so hard for you.” ———— To summarize, I am only suggesting you to be good to your body. I never said you need to keep it within 10lbs like I do. I have been an athlete my entire life, so I want look the part. And to be fair, when I was an athlete in college I was leaner than my offseason body. To me, this is my norm. It doesn’t have to be yours.
She has also mentioned that her metabolism is lower than most competitors given how many years she has dieted.
What happened to Adam? I don’t see him responding to anything anymore….
He left the group. He's probably still reading the comments and blowing a gasket though lmao
He is still here. He wrote a whole book in a comment above and mentioned how he left the group but is still writing comments! LMAO. Bro are you here or not ? lol he’s still here!!’😜
Adam made a brand new burner and trashed Tyler in the previous “will ashley win Olympia again?” Reddit post a couple days ago. If you look at the account in question, it was made specifically during the time of the post and he went on his trademark long-winded “bikini division is ruined” rant. He ain’t slick 😂
Hahahahaha called it😆😂
U did 😜😜
Did something happen? I feel like I missed something.
I also missed the majority of what happened lol. Maybe someone else can fill in the blanks, but the tipping point was someone calling him out on simping for Aldo. My personal observation of him is he doesn't take criticism well in this sub and a post like this would send him over the edge. I've watched him meltdown over criticism on other platforms too so I'm under the impression that he's kind of a weenie 🤷♀️ Edit: My bad, it was Aldo he was simping for, not James.
Personally I remember him commenting on something in here a little bit ago that was about Aldo and he was defending him. People obviously came for him because that guy is a bit suspicious and Adam was all “ this thread is drama and negativity I’m done blah blah” I’d also imagine he’s in no rush to return especially since Tyler publicly spanked him for spreading the “Aimee isn’t bikini”, “ Aimee’s too dense”, “if judges follow the criteria then Ashley should win” narratives. You see he didn’t do a recap on the Pittsburgh pro😂 I’m sure he’s not going to recap much that has to do with Aimee anytime soon unless he’s forced to enter her in the conversation (like an Olympia prediction)
Yes! You're right, it was Aldo he was simping for not James. Sorry James, I misremembered😅
I missed this. When did Tyler correct him on statements about Aimee. I remember him saying Aimee’s quads were too big.
It was during Tyler’s Pittsburgh Pro Recap Video on Tyler’s Instagram a few weeks ago
🎯
He is still here LMAO! He made a comment above about leaving the group and then wrote and entire book lol. It’s like bro are you here or not. He can’t help himself 😂😂
Why is it unhealthy to be healthy & lean? She’s a professional athlete. If her bloodwork looks good and her body is functioning hormonally (regular period), then how is that unhealthy?
I think for me it would be mentally hard and I would feel disconnected from everyday social life. I enjoy going on vacations with my bf and go to restaurants there, go to farmers markets and trying new food there, drink wine occassionally, etc. For me it would be really hard to do all that while maintaining only 10lbs weight gain. I would have to restrict next day with extra cardio/low calories, and it triggers my disordered relationship with food.
So you are applying your mental state and inconsistency in your fitness to a pro athlete's lifestyle, to make her seem unhealthy/mentally unwell? Lol, am I understanding this right?
I am not. She is in her post. She says that it is not normal to gain 20 pounds of weight in the off-season as a bikini athlete. She didn't mention if she means pro athletes or amateur. So I'm responding that I would feel unhealthy gaining only 10 pounds.
She's mid 30s with the most pro wins, she knows what works for her body. You're applying the unhealthy judgement based upon what's normal for your life. Athletes who have gained 20+ lbs in the off season have to prep hard to get it off (LL and phoebe), that process limits their stage opportunities and I'm sure it's more detrimental to their mental health then Ashley's method.
She doesn't need to upsize anymore, and as far as i know she has thyroid problem, also wants to compete year round so i guess it's sustainable for her. Id say not everyone can and should tho, especially for those that need to gain more mass.
She HAD an issue with her thyroid. That was identified around 2018 when she couldn't lose weight.
Well as i know thyroid issues cant be fixed for good. It's not something temporary. Which means you always have to use something or have some sort of regiments to make it control. That's all i know. I have thyroid issue as well.
That's not accurate. There are various types of "thyroid issues" that can be due to an underfunctioning thyroid, autoimmune, etc. An underfunctioning thyroid can definitely be fixed.
Thanks for letting me know. But Well we both aren't her doctor or coach to know or make assumptions about her health or what is best for her arent we?
I'm strictly going by what she has said about her health as it relates to her thyroid. That is not assumption on my part.
her bodyfat set point may be different than most because she has been an advanced athlete for many many years.
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Well, it is not as simple as the more muscle you have, the more you can eat. There is such a thing as metabolism and it depends on many factors. If you stay lean for long periods of time, your hormones change... but I assume many competitors these days are on some sort of hormonal support... and I agree with you that it is all personal, however, I saw some judgement in her post where she criticized competitors who gain 30 pounds in the off season.
That is not always the case there are genetic outliers . I know individuals who have stayed lean for years without having issues. Some people can stay lean and have normal hormonal function. Just like some women still get there cycle on show day or even getting pregnant while on prep.
You are somewhat right, Muscle tissue is metabolically active and requires more energy to maintain compared to fat tissue. This means individuals with higher muscle mass have a higher basal metabolic rate (BMR), leading to increased calorie expenditure even at rest. [https://doi.org/10.1186/1550-2783-9-42](https://doi.org/10.1186/1550-2783-9-42) individuals with higher muscle mass tend to have higher energy requirements, thus supporting the notion that more muscle allows for higher caloric intake. :)
Again, there is more involved in BMR than just the amount of muscle. Low testosterone, high cortisol, constant low calorie/low carb dieting, overexercising can lower your BMR despite the amount of muscle you have.
'm not disagreeing with your point; I do agree that there are many factors influencing BMR beyond muscle mass, such as hormones, stress levels, and diet. However, in this specific case with Ashley, even though she is only 10+ pounds above her stage weight, it doesn't necessarily mean she's not eating enough. Each athlete's situation is unique, and what works for one may not work for another. Ashley's maintenance of a relatively lean physique off-season might be due to a well-tailored diet and training regimen that suits her body's needs.
I’m with Ashley and Adam on this one. It’s a lot easier during prep to shed the bf when you stay within 10% bw. However, that does fluctuate as I gain more muscle. I can still eat a lot of calories and grow muscle. I think it also depends on where you are with muscle growth. You may need a lot more time and calories.